Not Skinny But Not Fat - Getting Real w/ Karamo Brown

Episode Date: November 29, 2022

This week I'm talking, laughing, and learning with the one and only Karamo Brown. We talk about his life story, his new talk show, Karamo Show, Queer Eye, breaking up w his man of 10 years and finding new love, and the CRAZY story of how he got cast on The Real World while protesting MTV!   Produced by Dear Media This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Hey, beautiful people. My name is Elisa Reynolds, and I'm the executive chef and founder of My Two Since LA and host of My Last Meal, a new podcast that asks people from all walks of life, whether it's musicians, celebrities, artists, chefs, scientists, Renaissance men and women,

what their last meal on earth would be and why. So don't forget to tune in on Fridays. You can find us anywhere you can listen to podcasts. So why not? Let me tell you about the last milk. This is Amanda Hirsch from the Not Skinny but Not Fat podcast. You might know me from Not Skinny Bonap Fat on Instagram, where I spend my time talking about reality TV, celebrities,

everything happening, and pop culture. I also talk to some of our favorite celebs and reality TV stars. We talk about what's going on. Tune in every Tuesday. and just feel like you're talking to shit with your best friends in your living room. You guys, hold on to your seats because I'm so excited about today's guys. Post author and activist, Caramo, motherfucking Brown. What's up, boo?

How are you? I'm good. your daytime talk show host now you are boyfriend of the year right now it's your boyfriend's birthday third birthday he walked in and I was a little rude at first I was like totally in Instagram post mode and I had to like come up and say I apologize I am not being rude no he needs to know you need to listen to this clip and know that you were all in it all in deep did you write something really romantic? I didn't because I just,

well, let's see what I wrote. I mean, it was, because again, I was trying to, I said, happy 33rd birthday to the most

handsome man and talented man I know. This is your Jesus year, praying you have a year filled with everything your heart desires. I love you. It's not romantic. So not a breakup post like people thought. Yeah.

So the reason that I was focused on the post as I told you is because at 7 a.m. this morning, I woke up people like, isn't it your boyfriend's birthday? Why haven't you posted yet? And I was like, Jesus.

It just woke up. I was, like, crazed by it. So you needed to make sure that people didn't. Yeah, I was like, we're not apart. Wait, so what is having your Jesus ear mean? Oh, so, like, it's like 33rd years when he, like, did all the stuff that, like. Was good? Yeah, that was good.

So it was like, he like, I guess that's like when he resurrected and like, when he, like, you know, like, you know, led people. Obviously, I'm, my Christian car is getting broke right now. I don't know. Please don't let my mother hear this. I went to Sunday school, Wednesday church. And that's what we used to say. Yeah, they used to be like, this is your Jesus year. Okay.

Where is that from? Wait, so you're from the south? I'm from the south. I'm from Texas. From Texas. Somebody needs to write in and tell me they've heard of your Jesus year. Call in, everybody. We need to check it out.

It's a Jesus year. Okay. Okay. That's my next, like, birthday post for someone. They're like, what? I hope your boyfriend gets the. It probably won't now. So now you're like, is it romantic?

take, not only is it not romantic, it's also confusing. I mean, it's a little official. Exactly. I have to say, Caramo. Like, have it. This is your Jesus here. Your Jesus here? Like, oh, my God.

So you were saying before, you were saying you're so focused on it. People were writing and thinking you might have, people are really invested in your life. People are invested, which I appreciate it because I stay open. I stay vulnerable about it, you know what I mean? And so I'm fine. Like, give me a reminder because I could have been like drunk last night for Halloween and forgot that it was his birthday.

Okay. We talked about this too. You fully went out for Halloween. Yes. At the club. At the club. What clubs? Like, what are clubs?

Again, again, us gays in the name of our clubs. It was called horse meat disco. Oh, is that in New York City? It is in New York City. Stop. It is. Where? Like meatpacking?

No, it was in Brooklyn this time. It was like this big warehouse four floors. Oh, okay. It's a Brooklyn Warehouse Party. Brooklyn Warehouse party called Horse Meat. They do it every once in a while. Everyone is like, you know, that line for, mean girls was like the real cool girls just go slutty and put everyone's using that audio for

for halloween now that was all of us oh it everyone was slutty every there was no gay in there that really put on like a real costume it was like it was like short shorts and a unicorn had it was like short shorts and like bumblebee ears it was like my friends three of them did mad max and they just wore like slutty black clothes oh my god that's so funny and i'm like and everyone's hot Yeah, I think beauty comes in all shapes and sizes. Beauty comes in all shapes and sizes. Last time I told you I went to a Brooklyn warehouse party, I wore a unicorn wensy and was sweating and everyone looked like what you're describing. And I was like, okay.

We're here now. Yeah. So anyway, you said you're from Texas. Yes, I am. So what kind of a kid were you? Were you like, gave me the spotlight kid that everyone knew you were going to be in like entertainment where you are now? No, I was a, I was the helpful kid because I'm the youngest. of four of the sisters.

So I was always trained to, like, move, to do, to act. I feel like Gaga right now. Bus, another brother's way. It was always like, it was always like, do what we tell you to do. Do this, do that. You know what I mean? And also I felt like a protector of my mom. So when I got into high school and middle school, I was always just like the helper kid.

So like I was in student government. I was in safety patrol as a kid. I was as peer counselor. So were you popular? Yes. Okay. I didn't know you could be popular in all those things. Well, I also played football.

Oh, okay. Okay. I was like an overachiever kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but I wasn't popular because I was like the cool guy. I was popular just because I was known. I was always in everyone's business. So, like, I would be the one as a peer counselor that could get you out of class if you had an issue because I could bring you to the counselor's office and then talk to you and do a talk.

And so, like, sometimes my friends would be like, I just want to get out of math. And I'd be like, got you. Oh, wow. You were the guy to know. Exactly. I can't believe you always had that helpful thing going on. I did. I'm telling you,

it's from being around women because women are the most empathetic and amazing people in the world. And so I just got trained to be more empathetic. You know, like my grandma is a big force of my life. She's always telling me you have one mouth, two ears. It's supposed to be doing one double the time.

And so I literally applied that through my entire life of being like in spaces where it's like, I'll just listen. I'll just listen. Listen, you know what I mean? Until to this day, my sisters all call me. They don't call each other. How many sisters do you have?

And they all call you? Anything that's going on. That is so much. I have two sisters, so I can't imagine that times two. Yes, all the time. And them calling you with their problems. Problems, the problems with each other. With each other, I was going to ask.

They fight between themselves too. Oh my gosh. Of course. And I'm the one who gets the call. Do they fight? Do you fight at all? No, I don't have any issues with. I've never gotten to fight with any of my sisters.

Not one. Because again, like. I don't, I just sit there and listen. I'm like, I get your side. I understand. They're always like, thank you. Oh my God. And then I'm like, well, but do you get her side?

And they're like, well, yeah, fuck you. And then like, that's always how the conversation goes. How lucky are your sisters? Yes, they're very neutral. That is amazing. Okay, so super helpful, but also involved in all these different things. And also, I was also, there was not many black folks in my school. There was like maybe six of us.

And I, at 14, sprang up to 6.3 and had a full beard. So I was this exact size at 15. What? So, of course, like, it also just, like, aided in me being known because everybody else was, like, most of my friends were, like, young Jewish kids who were, like, still 5,7. And, like, hadn't sprung up yet. So, like, I, like, sprung all the way up. I'm trying to find a photo myself in high school. And a full beard, didn't shave yet?

Full beard. Like, I did. I started doing a goate in high school. Wait, so that means you were probably popular people wanted to date you. Oh, yeah, yeah. I started to let people into my life regarding my sexuality. I don't use the term coming out because I think that term gives people the people the wrong power. So how do you say it?

Letting people in because that's the actual act. Letting people into my sexuality? They're letting them into my life. Okay. Because the act of, you don't say coming out with my sexuality. You say I'm just coming out. Right. And so the thing is actually, I'm not coming out.

I'm actually letting you in, which gives me the power. or to say when I want to allow you to be in. And if you're not healthy for me, it's okay that I don't want to let you in. It doesn't mean that I'm ashamed of who I am. It just means that I'm in a space where you're not the person I want to let into my life. And we all do that organically, whether you're straight, gay, you let people into parts of your life.

But for some reason, we give this undue pressure to people in the LGBTQIA plus community to feel like they have to make grand announcements. To come out. To come out. And it's like, no, I have no shame of who I am. And when I want to let you in, like, I always thought it was absurd that, like, this aunt that I haven't talked to in years, all the send is that Thanksgiving dinner. I'm supposed to tell her, like, yes, you know, I'm bottoming on a Tuesday. Like, bitch, like, you don't need to know that.

Right. You know, it's none of your business. Right. I don't know what third husband you're on. So why do I tell you who I'm dating? You know what age did you said you started letting people in? I started letting people in at 15. Wow.

Yeah. So I was openly gay. I'm trying to find my high school photos. And when did you know, though, Karama? Ooh, I don't know, like, probably like seven. Like, it is a weird question to ask, too, because if you would ask me, like, when you would, when I knew if I, you know, that, that I was straight, I wouldn't know how to answer that. So that's also a weird question now that I think about it. A little, not really in my perspective.

Somebody else. I would have said, like, I knew that Brad Pitt was cute, but I don't remember when that was. Yeah. Because when I equated, I equated to, like, when, like, not just, like, a love or an interest was more like when I just knew that, like, okay puberty's coming and like okay there's something more than just like you're cute it was right i was like oh oh hi hi you know guy that my sister just brought over who's like you know oh my gosh i used a crush on all my sister's boyfriends that's how i really was anyone else in your high school now all like motherfucking the entire class but when i was there it was just like me

and i was like girls y'all didn't want to come help me out but it was fine i still had a great I had a great high school but like none of them but like slowly it was like they just one by one trickled out like you are my hero in high school I wish I could have did it I'm like that's cute

I'm like fuck you I'm like I was like I needed you I needed a community and you didn't have it though you feel I did because all my girlfriends were great and everything else I'm just trying I'm sorry I know you need to find the photo because I wanted you to see how grown

you need to put in your favorite so you can whip it out I thought that it was in here oh here it goes oh my god I'm so excited this was me in high school this is 15. I'm 15. No. I'm 15 there. No. I'm 15 or 16. I'm not 18. I am dead. Yes. I'm like a grown ass. You're a full man. You're a full 24 year old. You're 24 years old. I am dying. And look at that small. This is what I'm using for my promo picks by the way. So please send it over. I will. I'll put this over here. I love it. Yo, yo, yo, you guys. Okay. Let's take it back. Let's relax. I'm just excited. to talk to you about Nix because you guys know that I love Nix. I've shared it on Instagram. Nix is a female-founded Canadian company. I mean, I love my Canadians. Sorry, guys, love my Canadians. So very much support this brand, especially because it's been size

inclusive from the beginning, which I really, really appreciate. But also, they make leakproof underwear that could wildly absorb up to eight tampons worth of liquid. I know. I now it's perfect for periods, light bladder leaks, and sweat. So literally absorbent. Like literally can absorb that amount of liquid. I know it sounds wild, but try for yourself. Millions have people have switched to Nix and especially because it comes in a range of styles and sizes. Sizes extra small to 4XL. And they also have bras. So you can match your leakproof underwear with some really comfortable wireless bras. I also have Nix apparel. They make a beautiful. amazing modell t-shirts and just everything you could want so right now you could get 15

percent off your first order so you go to nix.com and you use the promo code not skinny i know shocking but that's the promo code not skinny at checkout so nix is spelled k-n ix dot com and the promo code is not skinny for 15 percent off your first order were you popular i was called called fat. I never said this before. No one's ever asked me. I actually was chubbier than all my friends because they were like stick thin. So I got called names, which is, you know, looking back, it was hard. And then I like got popular at sixth grade. I embraced that real quick. Yeah. You're like, no more names? I'm about this. I love this life. So that was fun. But I was one of those girls. Like I got my period first. Like I was very. I was like, I was tall then. You

thought I was tall today that I'm not. But I was tall then. I like, into myself really quickly. It sucks because that shit kind of still sticks with us. I wonder. I think that my mom did such a good job. I always say this. My mom was one of those moms that told me every day that I was like beautiful, talented, and perfect. Hi, mom.

We're like if I was ugly, untalented and, you know, I don't know, I wouldn't know. Because she literally instilled that in me every day. And that's how I feel like I am. Can I tell you something? That's the same thing my father used to see for me. And I think that's why our asses are at front of the camera. My father used to say to me every day, you're a champion, you're the very best,

and you're supposed to save the world. He would say that in every birthday card, you're a champion, you're the very best, and you're supposed to save the world. And that stuff, I used to, like, walk in a space, and I'm like, oh, I'm the very best right now. I can do this. Like, it's weird, like, when you get that sort of affirmation.

It works. That's why whenever I see, you know, friends that I've seen struggle and then met their families and saw like, wait, this is how they're treated at home or their parents never tell them that they're, they look good. They say the opposite. They say, you're dressed like a slut or whatever I used to hear. I'd be like, wow, how lucky. Honey, welcome to the Karamo show.

Like, that's literally what I deal with every day of my guests. I'm sitting there and they're like crying and I'm like, what did you, what was this relationship like as a kid? I swear, that's like one of the main questions I always asked. I'm like, what was it like as a kid? And then you just start hearing it. Oh, they weren't there. They used to say this to me. It's always from the parents, right?

Always, always. But the parents most of the time don't know themselves because, you know, generational trauma is so real and we should do more, I think, in, like, high schools, like, instead of giving, like, you know, just like, you know, home economics class that none of us use, like, really, like, give practical things that could help people to see how to be better. Like, I remember the parent-teacher conferences that I used to go to with my kids. I'm like, you're really not giving me any tools of how my kids are really acting in class. And I get it. Most teachers are overwork, so I can't put the pressure on them. But I think if it was school board, that's not like I'm running for office right now. I promise you I'm not.

I swear to God, I'm not. I know election is coming up. Please, everyone vote. I know. Like, but I just think like if we talk more about that stuff because teachers see how that trauma affects us and how other kids act with other kids. And I think that they would have more transparent conversation with parents about like, what are you saying in the house?

What are you? Because they're repeating. I think it can break some of that or say to them, well, did you hear it? Just different tools. But since we don't have that, we have my talk show. Right. And it really is so important. It is completely.

No joke. We're going to get to the Karama show. Don't you worry. The Karam Show is happening right now. But the real world. Yes. We cannot forget it. I was the real world.

I mean, I'm a reality TV. You're way too young to have known when I was on because I was on 2004. I know. I know. Okay. Thank you. No. Okay.

Well, I watched. I don't remember which seasons because it was so long ago. Yeah, yeah. But what was that guy, Brad? What season was he? Oh, Brad was on San Diego, which was right after mine. Stop! Yes.

Maybe that was my first one. Yes. I might have actually watched yours. Yeah, but I did a challenge right after that. So if you saw a challenge. I did see the challenge. Yeah. Let's go back for a moment because reality TV now is so different.

Yeah. Tell me how you got on the real world. TV. Yes. Because. Because there used to be a show on called Pimp My Ride. Right. And I just got out to college and I was working in social services. And I, after my job, part of my job was also to run this mentoring program after for the kids to come to. And so my kids were getting locked up in Juvie or getting detention because I, the program was in South Central. And there was this rodeo drive that doesn't go exactly in a rodeo drive, but like people would, so they would go to the richer areas and steal hubcaps and get caught

and the kids, I would talk to them transparently and they were like, it's because I watched my ride. I wanted to do something with my ride. So being fresh out of college, I was like I was like, fuck this, I'm gonna like organize and we're gonna go outside of MTV studios in Santa Monica. And we're gonna, and I got like 25. Wait, but you were in California. You were living in California?

I was in California. So you moved there. Yeah, I'd already moved there. And so I was like literally got like 25 people like five other employees, like 20 parents. And we were literally outside. And so, woman came out was like, who organized this? And I was like, me. And she was like, really? And I was like, she was like, I was like, are you going to talk to me? And I was like, because my boyfriend, he's actually, he was a lawyer at the time. And she was like, your boyfriend? And like, I'm like du rag looking like, you know,

like, you remember where the old oversized t-shirts we would wear? So like, I didn't give a gay appearance to this woman that came out. And she was like, come back the next day and we'll talk to you. She was casting. I did not know that. I went, I went home and created the most amazing PowerPoint like you would ever see about the detrimental effects on our society. Wait, well, you thought this was what? I thought I was going to get back and like, talk to somebody about getting it off the air. I thought like, that's how TV work. Like, you know, like, I was, I thought I was the original Twitter.

I was like, I'm canceling this shit. You know what I mean? Like, that's what I thought. I love this. And I went back the next day with my, like, I literally bought, I'm not even joking. I wish my best friend was here, Trey, because he's still lasted me. I also got like a trifold, like, science project. board i i like stayed up all night and i got there and they're like so we want to talk to you about

the real world and casting and the sad part of it is like i threw that fucking science board so quickly i was such a traitor to the cause i was like you want to put me on real world fuck these kids feel the other fucking real world like i'm not even joking i wish it had a different ending where i was like no i need to like stay focused i was like i swear i I left that, fucking, I left that trifold. I don't know what it's called, the science board, in the lobby. And I was like, yeah, sure, great. I'm like, what's up?

So the cause had been left behind. Left behind. And literally there at the end of the casting. And so I literally got cast within, from that day, within three weeks, I was in the Real World House. Did you know the show? Had you watched? Oh, of course.

I was a big fan. I was a fan, like, you know, the Trichelle Vegas season. I thought everyone was hot and sexy. and I just wanted to be on it. And yeah, and I quit my job and went to the room. And you went to Philadelphia. And I don't know where any of those kids are today. Really?

Like there's four in prison right now that are probably writing my name on the fucking wall. Like fuck Karamo. Right. He was supposed to help us. No, because I was thinking that. I was like not many. Today you go on reality TV, a lot of people that go into it usually know, okay, I'm going to get this many Instagram followers.

I'm going to get grand deals. You weren't thinking that then. No, I was just thinking I want to go. I'd never, I grew up in apartments. So it was like, at first time, I want to live in a house with a hot tub, and I want to live in a house full of liquor. Like, that was the only thing on my mind. Yeah, like fresh out of college, you guys imagined that's such. Yeah, there was nothing.

But you had a boyfriend, you said. I did, and I dropped him. I swear to God, too, like, I was the most, it just, like, shallow just washed over me. It was like, you were like, bye kids, buy job, by boyfriend. I was like, I'm going on the real world. None of y'all can't, like, fuck with my life anymore. Sorry, I'm cussing so much, but we love it. That was literally, I'm not even joking.

So how was that for you, though? It was amazing because then I got there and it was like, wake up call because back then the real world was actually designed to put real strangers who had real different issues together. And immediately it was like there was another gay roommate, but like I was so hyper masculine and so caught up in that idea of like either you're hypermasculous or hyperfeminent. So he and I had tension. There was someone who had never been around black folks before.

And so we had tension. And I was like, are you kidding me? It's 2004. You'd never been around black folks? Yeah. And then I had a, there was a black girl in the show, an African-American woman named Chavonda, who had a bad relationship with her father and her brother. So she thought negatively of me as a black man.

And so there was all these things that like immediately I was like, I thought they were supposed to be a party house. And now we're like having real discussions on race. And like, it was like real. So did you step into your role as helpful? Caramo. No. No. No, it broke me. Really? Yeah, because I had never been confronted with that much conflict and my mental health and my self-esteem did know how to handle it. I would fight and then I would feel so bad. I would go out on, there was this bench in front of the house. I would go on the bench and sleep on the bench. Literally. Because I was just so, I was terrified of being

in that house. Wow. Terrified. It just like no one would prepared me for like what that was. How many months do you think? Four and a half months. That is a long-ass time. Yeah. Like nowadays, reality shows are quick. They get shot in, you know. They're like seven weeks.

Yeah, seven weeks. It was like a true journey. We had jobs. We had, you know, lives. Right. They make you take a job. And also, like, that was the other thing, like, I quit my job. So I didn't have any money.

And, like, I thought, like, oh, everything's free. And it was like, no, they're like, you got to still get yourself breakfast, lunch, and dinner. We just because we put alcohol on here, there's nothing else in here for you. And so, like, I was broke. And so we didn't get our job to the month and a half in. And I was like, I was too embarrassed to tell my roommates who had money that I was broke. And then they're already fighting with me about the fact that like, it was a mess.

Have you ever done like a rewatch? I just did because one of the streaming networks put it on. Really? Yeah. And? And I would handle so many things differently. Well, obviously. It's been 20 years.

Yeah. But like, but also there are some parts where like, I'm also like, you motherfucker should have handled shit. differently like there was a point where I was in the club and it was an all white club and police surrounded me and patted me down because they got a nominous call that had a gun and they had put me up on the wall and my two white roommates were in there and they were drinking and party and I'm like screaming help me help me and they come outside I'm surrounded by cops and they're like you're fucking overreacting it was a prank call nowadays we understand like the racism and how it all works out at that point they fucking did it and they were like

totally gaslighting me and making me feel shitty for being upset. Like there was a scene like literally walking to the house and my other girl roommates were like, was it really that bad? And they're like, no, it's not that bad. It was just like seven cops around him. And I watched it back and I'm like, oh my God. Yeah. So I mean, they're doing those real world reunion shows and I would totally be down and

go back and do it for like a way. Okay, you guys heard it here. I totally would. I would totally would. Like I would love to go back in the house with my cast. Wow. So did you know. Sorry, that was a really long story for real long.

No, I love it. Give it all to me. I'm all of it. It's all about that base, about that base, no trouble. So bass, but that's spelled B-E-I-S, not the bass like Megan Trainor's song. I guess that's spelled B-A-S-S. I thought, okay, not like the base of something, which is B-A-S-E. So base, B-E-I-S is Shea-Mitchell's luggage brand, and it's amazing.

I'm sorry. Don't be jealous. I have two pieces of their luggage plus two carry-on bags. And it's just all the rage. Okay. And when you travel, you want to travel in style and also, you know, having your luggage be sturdy, having your luggage fit everything that it needs to. Having your luggage be able to go in the overhead bin and not being told last minute like, oh, it's too. Not having your luggage. A friend of mine just had their luggage literally follow. apart and somebody had to like saran wrap their luggage put it together on their way out so they could get home so listen you also don't want your luggage to be like oh i'm on a business trip like you want it to be chic and with base you could get that you could get chic affordable travel bags and

accessories that look good and are packed with function so base is the way to go you guys it's leek and it's also affordable so don't fret and right now base is offering my listeners percent off your first purchase by visiting basetravel.com slash not skinny. Go to base travel.com slash not skinny for 15 percent off your first purchase. That's base travel, B-E-I-S travel. com slash not skinny. So I'm trying to understand where the little sparkle of wait, people like me and know me and maybe I want to be out in the world and on TV.

Did that come after the real world? Because after the real world, I got super depressed. and got like totally addicted to cocaine because it's like because like you got off the real world and like back then it was like spring break tours and college tours so I was literally to make money was traveling to colleges to party every night of the week and it was like to keep up with the whole idea of partying it was like give me a bump of coke give me more liquor because it was like you're it was like MTV people come and you're like all drinking and it's like me and Ruthie and Trichelle and like whatever. names from back in the day and that you might remember and we're like getting drunk with college kids to make money and you'd give you $500 in the night for getting fucked up did you get addicted I got super addicted I got super depressed I got suicidal and I thought the world hated me and so the real world actually destroyed me it did not I didn't walk away thinking like I'm famous I'm about to be all like amazing also now I realize that I was the first openly gay black guy on reality

television so there was this pressure now of like me being a talking head for the black gay community which i also was not ready for i was like i don't even know myself yet like yeah yes i'm black and yes i'm gay but i don't know what talking about where did they want you to do that like was there a twitter was there anywhere no there was college college tours they would also send us to like anytime you know there was a spirit day or something it was like we were it that was on television so and i was the black one so i always got invited and you were over it. Because I didn't know what to do. And I was depressed and I was drunk. So you wanted to be done. I wanted to be done. And luckily, it did not happen. My best friend saved my

life, my best friend Trey, because I attempted and he caught me. He had left for work and he came back and he called the ambulance. And I was like in the hospital for a month. I'm like, I love my best friend. And after that, I started to try to figure out like, okay, let me go back to who I let me let me go pick back up that trifold and try to help kids again and I went back into social services and just got really focused on helping people and helping my mental health and it's got really focused got more training and then I found I was a father and becoming a father is what made me say you know what I think I have a voice now that can help people and that I could go out in the world and become something that my father told

me I could be well first of all wow yeah a moment yeah that you are worried you are today. That probably gives so much hope to kids and even adults that were ever in that kind of situation. I try to be transparent about it because like when you're in the dark space, you just don't know. And it was dark. And you don't know that it could get good again. You don't know. You don't know. And I really try to tell people like, I mean, I was really, really dark. It wasn't like just like I was sad or depressed. Like my best friend, if he would have not walked back in the house in 30 minutes later, I would have, or walked in 30 minutes later, I would not be here right now. Wow. That's how close of a call it was. And so I'm just like thankful for and I tell people

like you can get out and there's people like me and other people in numbers that can help you. And so yeah. So you talk about finding out then that you have a son. Let's go back to that for a minute. Wild ass story. Wild. Wild. Wild story. So we had one when I was this 15 year old that six four six three six 15-year-old I told you about. I had a best friend who knew I was gay. She had a boyfriend and she was like, I won't lose my virginity, but I don't want to lose to him and be weird.

So she was like, we should lose it to each other. Wait, did you know? Yeah, she knew I was good. Oh. Yeah. And so I was like. Oh, my God. The logic of 15-year-olds.

And because I was her good, good girlfriend. Like I wasn't a guy that she saw. I was like, her girl. So she was like, I don't want to be weird. And we would talk about them having sex all the time. And I would be like, oh, my gosh, you should try it. Tell me what's going to be like. oh my gosh, you know what I mean?

And so she was like, but I don't want to be bad. She was like, should we practice? Was it your first time with her? My first and only time. Your first and only time. And I swear to God to you. It lasted like seven seconds. And now I have a fucking 20 year old.

Is that wild? Seven. I swear to you, it was seven. She jokes about it now. Well, she should be proud that it was seven seconds. Yeah, I was like, yeah. She's like, hey, I got it. Yeah.

But the horrible part is like, Afterward, she's down on the bed and she was like, was that okay? And I was like so traumatized. I was like, she got him so awkwardly. I mean, we're still close today. Obviously, we co-parent amazingly. But I was the worst. Like, for her first time, I always look back and I'm like, you did not deserve my awkward, gay ass on the edge of the bed.

Like, like, shaking, like, as if I was just traumatized by your vagina. And I was like, she was like, I know I walked home so, felt so bad. And I was like. Wait, so you didn't know to use protection. No. Oh, my God. Wait, so your co-parent- Because the thing was they only told me to use protection to get pregnant.

And I was like, I'm gay. I'm not getting anybody pregnant. Like, my logic in my head was like, I'm a homo. There's no, she's not getting pregnant for me. Oh, my God. Okay, but you're saying her co-parenting today, you're cool. Yeah. But you still didn't, she didn't tell you for 10 years.

Well, she moved away. So I, and people don't realize, like, you know, the time, like, when I was in high school, I went to high school between 95 and 99. There was no cell phones. social media. So her parents moved like that summer. And unless you have a mailing address, you don't know how to get in contact. They moved to a different state. They moved to a different state because her mom was going through something and she had to move with her grandma. And I stayed in the same place. And so she had the baby. She had the baby. And what she told me now is that

she just didn't want to ruin my life. She knew like, and it breaks my heart. I was like hug her anytime she says this because I'm like, she was like, I didn't want both of our lives to be ruined. I knew you had a brighter future, so I wanted you to be able to go, yeah, not hold you back. And so she's like, I'm sorry that I didn't tell you. And I, like, I have no anger. That's the reason we've been none because I was like, she was 15. Wait, how did she end up telling you, though, 10 years later? Well, she didn't.

She applied for state benefits and the state of Texas found me because she had put my name on the birth certificate, which was legal under that, the Clinton era is that you could put the father's name. the birth certificate even if he wasn't present so my name was on the birth certificate can i ask a a really stupid question yeah how did she know was in her boyfriends so this is the funny part okay she i feel like i'm on your your show no no no so my son's name is jason rashad brown and jason was the name that i used always talk about like i wish that was my name because you know having karamo when i was younger was weird but she she didn't know if it was mine or his so she decided in the moment to give my son her boyfriend's name which was Rashad and then my last name and luckily it worked out because I never had to change my son's last name. So my son has her boyfriend's

middle name. Oh my God. Yeah. So his name is Jason Rashad Brown and it's because her boyfriend's name was Rashad at the time. Isn't that crazy as fuck? It's so crazy. Yes. So I just changed his middle name. We just did a name change. Oh, you did? Yeah, because he asked me it was really sweet. He came to me He was like, Dad, you weren't there to name me. So can you give me a name now? We did a whole. So what would you give him? Abiyomi.

Oh, that's so special. So tell me about finding out. So you found out from Texas. Did you call her? No, at first I thought it was like a droke. I told people this all the time. Like, this was the age of Ashen Coucher. I thought Ashen Coucher's finance was in my house.

Like, I really did. I swear to got to. I literally saw the papers, thought it was a joke and then saw my name. I didn't go through anything else. I just saw my name. And I was like, oh, my gosh, they're doing like a real world deedless. like pumped and I was like I went downstairs to my car and changed and put on no I can't because I was like if I meet ashen kutcher I'm fucking sucking his dick

he's in my apartment we're fucking falling in love and we're having sex tonight like this is it like you talk about crushes ashton kutcher was it oh really I still remember him like from he was on this show called like it was this model show that would come on he was like in the Ford modeling competition that's how deep my love goes on wow it's goes back. Did y'all know about that? No. He was in a Ford modeling competition.

Did you know he has a twin brother? Ashton has a twin brother. If you tell me he's gay, I'm sorry on my boyfriend's birthday, we're breaking up. Wait. You tell me. No, I don't think he's gay. Okay, you know what?

Okay, we'll do more research later. You just say my relationship. I just wanted to know how deep the love goes. My devil only goes for him. Okay, okay. You don't go over the middle. I didn't go to stalker route. Like, you know.

Okay, so you go and change, you think you're meeting Ash. And I walk in the house and you would see how dramatic I was. I was like, hi everyone I'm home just in case I was like hi I'm home no one was there I'm like going through doors and like looking and I throw the papers down

because I'm like what this is must be for my neighbor and even though I said my name and I went to sleep and then the middle night I looked and I saw open it up saw my name and was like what is this now I have no Ashton's not here and then I saw her name I hadn't seen her name since we were 15

and then I saw my son's name and I freaked out and I called my sister Actually, I called my best friend, Trey, and we went on a drinking binge, right? We went out to the club. And then the next morning, I called my sister and was like, hey, so I think I have a child. And she was like, get your fucking ass home to Texas right now. She bought my plane ticket. I was at home in Texas.

And within two weeks, I was meeting him. It was like crazy. Wow. That is one crazy story. Did you have an immediate connect? How does that work? He was 10, right? He was 10.

Well, the funny part is I didn't know what to do. So growing up on full house and family matters, I was like, well, anytime there's an awkward situation with a father and a son, you take him bowling. So I took him bowling as our first meeting, our first night meeting. I took him bowling. And I was the shittiest parent because I took him bowling to this bowling alley, which is next to Rice University in Houston, Texas. And so when I walked in, everybody was like, oh shit, it's Karama from the real world.

And I literally was like, I went right back. I'm not joking. I totally forgot about him. And was like taking shots with college kids and was like, there's a pattern here where I just forget children apparently. I never realized that pattern to right now. And he was sitting in the booth. And no joke, it took me about 30 minutes to remember that I had a kid. I mean, but that's so understandable.

You didn't even know you had him. And I'm like, so like this is my first. meeting we've only known for an hour and kids are like oh my gosh they're like let's take photos and like drink and they're like I'm like oh yeah okay great and then I'm like I'm here for a reason and I was like fuck and I literally ran back over to him and he was like he was like that was cool I thought it was and he thought it was so cool the dad was known yeah and I said I promise you I'll never do that again I never have I became like a helicopter parent to a degree because I was like always there I took full custody immediately with her support and

with her support yeah because she had four the kids at the time and with the same man and so it was like she was struggling you know because he had divorced there and so do he move with you he moved him with me immediately in texas i stayed for two years just to get him settled and acclimated and in that two years i adopted his little brother same mom different dads and so by the time i was 27 i had two kids and loved every minute of it That's a lovely sound to get on your notifications. And if you have the Shopify app, then when you make a sale and you obviously need to also have a Shopify store, you're going to get that notification and be like, I made a sale.

It's not so fun. So if you don't know what Shopify is yet, it's literally what makes most storefronts that you buy from on the internet work. So like merch from your favorite influencer. KKW Beauty. so it's all powered by something and it's Shopify so it could work for huge businesses but it could also work for you if you want to start you know sewing or knitting hats and selling them you could do that you could create your own Shopify store and it's so easy you could create your own online store and your vibe and Shopify literally has 24-7 support and libraries that are free full of educational

content so it's super super easy listen you could become an entrepreneur So not, I won't say easily, but you can easily call yourself one and say like, I have a brand and a shop and like no one needs to know that you, you know, that you just started and that maybe you haven't made a sale yet. But what I'm saying is start today. Don't give up on your dreams. You want something. You think there's something you want to put out there in the world. Do it. And if there's something you want to sell to the world, do it and use Shopify. So you sign up for a free trial at shopify.com slash not skinny, all lowercase. you go to shopify.com slash not skinny to start selling online today shopify.com slash not skinny so are both of them with you now? Yeah, I've been having full cause. I mean, they're grown now. So, yeah. So they, but they live down the street.

Oh my God. Yeah. What? We're super, super close. I know. I saw that. And I saw that you had just opened up about what happened with Jason with his drug overdose. He were very.

Yeah. So in 2020 during the pandemic, like in June, my son started getting a little distant. But I figured it was just like, you know, whatever. And I didn't realize that he was getting into drugs. I missed the signs totally. I thought he was just messing up because he was done with college. I thought he was just slacking. So I was like, you need to go to Texas and not be here during the pandemic with your mom.

He kept missing flights. And I went to the house one morning to basically like whoop his ass. Like, you know, not really because he was 24 or 23 or 22. I don't know. And I went there just like scold him. And I found him on the floor overdosing. And so, you know, Like, I just, I jumped in a dad mode, got him help.

But it just, you know, I just talked transparently about that. And I brought Jason on the show because he wanted to ready to talk about it. We had never talked about it publicly. And it was just to say, like, if this, this is happening in all of our homes. This is happening whether you want to see it or not. The drug crisis in our country is real. And so we just wanted to show like, you can make it through. I made it through from my 20s.

He made it through my father. Did you ever talk to him about that before, about drugs and stuff when he was younger? Can I tell you, I didn't? And the reason I, he knew that I did it because I was always transparent. I never talked to him about, like, how detrimental it was. I talked to him about me getting paid and going on the real world. And I think I might have glorified it in a sense, even though I was saying it at like, it was horrible, but he's a kid, you know? And so, and it's also like, I never talked to him about my father's addiction.

Like, my father had addiction growing up. And so it was like, one of these things where it was like, I should have. recognized it and I should have paid more attention. So you were hard on yourself with that? Oh my gosh. I had so much guilt. Really? So much guilt.

So much guilt. But it's not your fault. I know that now. Yeah. By the way, I tell my clients that all the time. All the time. Like all the time. Somebody, if someone was in, I was like, this is not your fault.

With me, I was like, no, this is my fucking fault. You're like, it's different with me now. This is my fault. This is literally my fault. But, you know, it's just what it is. How is he doing now? Two years sober. Great.

And so it's great because I'm hoping. now. So there's some generational curses that I've been breaking that I'm very proud of. So first, one of the general, I'm not going to know all of them. But like, every man in my family has had my father, my grandfather, my great grandfather, all had their first child at 16. And we thought I was going to break it because I told everyone that I was, let everyone in that I was gay at 15. So they were like, oh, great, the curse is broken. Dida. Didn't break it. I had a kid at 16. And so I was very clear about like, with my son, like, you know, sex is a beautiful thing. It's better when you wait for love. And he waited until he was 22.

to lose a virginity to the girl that he's still with. And so I was like, yes, no more 16 year old babies. Like, we've broken that. And then now with him getting to rehab, because I never went to rehab. Now him having that conversation, him educating ourselves. I'm like, when he has a kid,

we'll now have the tools to break addiction around him. And so I'm kind of like proud of where we're going as a generation. And how courageous of him to open up on your show. Yeah, we're a very talkative open family. We're very talkative. Because the thing is that I don't believe in, like, hiding.

The more you, like, hide stuff, the more you, like, let it in. The more it fester's. Yeah. It gets worse. Just, like, let it out. And then it just humanizes us because, like, everyone's going through the same crap. I'm telling you, working at social services, being on a talk show, having my own talk show, I hear the same story over and over and over from women, men, families, boyfriend, girlfriend, husband, wife, father, son, mother, daughter. It's, like, clockwork.

Yet we sit in our homes and we think this is no one having no one right and it's like it's all people feel so alone It's like with you know when I talk about my anxiety I talk about it well because it's real, but also I just know how much even another person saying it It's not like misery is company. Yeah, not at all it's more like oh my god. I'm not alone Yes because it's so isolating all these things even though it's so common so common and I hear it all the time and And so, like, for Jason and I, he just learned through me, like, just be transparent. It's okay. Wow.

So you really got that, got that passed down. Yeah. So another thing that happened during COVID you were open about is your breakup of after 10 years. I did, girl. No, you were engaged. You had a long time love. Girl, I was supposed to get married September of 2020, and girl, thank God for this pandemic. Really?

That was the only part of the Miss pandemic that I was happy about. Because it wasn't good at the end? I just knew that I wasn't. was I just knew I knew five years in that not five years in that like maybe this is not right but kept going yeah because I was like I came from a broken home my parents got divorced I was like I'm not a quitter we're staying together and I was like we're going to do it we you know he was there while was raising my kids you know he they call him pops even to this day oh wow he and I still have a great relationship and so but I was just like we're going to stick this through and then the pandemic came

and I was like okay let me have a transparent conversation with you and I'm talking myself I was like is this all there is like we stopped i'm going to be way too um transparent but we stopped having sex like those last two years we were just like cohabitating yeah and i was like i'm fucking 38 why am i cohabitating right like i should be like sex should be on the menu every single right and it was not and that was like your ding ding ding that wasn't though because i would i had settled myself with like okay this is fine like this is that like when we're 60 it's not not going to be about sex. So it's fine. Like, that's what I kept rationalizing. Yeah, I was like, I was like, this is what it is. Like, this is, you know, like, if I'm only staying in for sex,

like, then I'm like, like, like, that's shallow. But then it was like other things if I was like, well, I want to like travel every all the time and you're more settled. And I like, I want to do these things. And I was thinking like, maybe I want to have another kid. I was like, you don't. Like, there was all these things. And I was like, so it wasn't the sex that got me. It was like the other things that said, is this the life that I want and that I deserve. And when I really had an honest conversation myself, I said, it's not. And so I need to go get what I want and what I deserve. And it ended it.

And luckily, we had a very, like, cute with a conversation, a second conversation. I'm good with, like, I'll listen to you. I don't even need to say anything because I don't need to me a defense mode. I'm giving people tips here. Like, you know what I mean? It was very much like, let me validate your feelings. And it ended nicely and we're still friends. Oh, that's amazing.

And how long after, I heard you met your current boyfriend. Yeah, on IG. On IG with an accidental like. Yes. Wink, wink, like accidental? He didn't have any photos. I mean, he's fine as hell. I saw the muscle.

Yeah, he didn't have any photos of himself on it. It was like his photography page because he's a photographer. And so I liked the photography. And then he hit me back and was like, oh, hi. And we just started talking. And then I saw his real page. And I was like, oh, shit, dad. You're amazing.

And then so DM. DMs and then I move fast I'm a Scorpio and we move quick So you get so it's two years in Yes And birthdays are a day apart Brothers a day apart we're doing great

But we were talking transparently before And I was like saying like You know I get nervous sometimes because he's 33 I'm 40 I'm about to be 42 And so it's like there's different life things That we're at like career wise Where he's like starting out and growing I'm already established

Financial stuff Also you know Like, you know, I want marriage. He's younger and he's like, I don't know. And so it's like nothing is causing a problem, but I get nervous about them. So like right now I'm in the place of like, let's have conversations. Yeah. And is he good at communicating like you?

Yes, he is. Okay. He is. He is. He is. So you see this as. I hope. Yeah.

I hope. I hope. You know what I mean? But if not, but if not real talk, I, I, I'm one of those people that I know that what needs to be will be and what will come will come. like you're not worried no I really believe in the law and abundance and I believe in abundance of love and I believe that as long as I'm good and I'm healthy in my mental and emotional state that I'll find somebody yeah but I'm hoping not but they're very together and they're very in love okay everybody yes yes yes like I said that it's very doom day but I'm like we're in a

very good place right now but like you know but yeah but you're having conversations about the different yeah because you have to like these are things in relationships like like I tell people on my show it's like you have to be able to real realize what your differences are. And you can't be afraid to bring them up. Because a lot of times people get afraid that if I bring them up, I'm going to offend the other person, I'm going to start drama, I'm going to like whatever thing we tell ourselves.

And I know from very early on that if you don't communicate about these things, whether it's like small things of like how you, how you, you know, keep the house clean or how you communicate with your mother or how you, you know, how you socialize or don't socialize. If you don't communicate about them, these small things get rambled in with bigger things. and then you have all of a sudden like where you're like we need a divorce and that's why so many people are so unhappy in their relationships they can't end amicably and i'm just like not for that i'm like let's just be real and communicate because we're two different people trying to mesh our lives together yeah and it's okay if we're different yeah and i think sometimes in relationship people think

that they have to be the same it's okay if you have different ideals but you also have to be honest if someone's differences are not where you want to be and it's okay to say like because I used to do this. I was big on this. Sorry. But I was big on like, I'm willing to wait and hopefully you change. I'm that girl. Not anymore.

Yeah. But before I was like, I'm like, oh my gosh, I see the potential. I'm totally going to wait because you're going to get there. So not anymore? No. Like you're willing to meet in the middle now. Meet in the middle. I'm not waiting for five year potential.

Girl, like potential does not pay bills. Yeah. Potential does not give you orgasms. potential does not give you what you need, okay? Like, I need you to have that kinetic energy right now in movement, okay? Not that potential energy, that's stagnant we're waiting on, okay? Yeah. And so now it's like, okay, you don't have what I need, but let's talk about where you are.

Yeah. And actually, is that something that I can deal with? And vice versa, what do I might not have. You know what I mean? So you're like, no, but I haven't. No, no, no, no. No, we all have our flaws. Yeah, I know, I know.

Yeah, like I'm super impatient. That's my thing that I'm working on now. Are you still not sure what to get your favorite people for the holidays? I don't know why I thought I could make that a song, guys. I don't know who I think I am. Like, I think I might think I'm Miley Cyrus. But I just want to make it very clear that if you don't know what to get people for the holidays yet, Macy's has a gift finder, okay? The gift finder makes it so easy to get your mom, grandpa, or BFF a dream gift.

at any budget from Lux to $15 and under. I mean, don't cheap out unless it's like a coworker. So you could check out those ideas at macy's.com slash gift finder. Now, if you do know who you're looking for, but you're stumped on what to get them, you can browse curated shops and gift lists for the jet setters, the one that has everything, the pet parent, and so much more. Now, if you or your special someone is brand loyal till the end,

don't worry because Macy's got designed us for days. Coach, ugh, you know, we love it. Kylie Cosmetics, highly support the lip gets free people. You know I'm a boho. She kind of gal. The list goes on. So, guys, if you're proudly like, I can get my gift shopping down the night before, treat yourself also. Maybe you need a new set of fluffy house slippers that you want to get on, you know,

the holiday vibe with new ornaments, lights, and whatever. don't forget your R&R essentials and your favorite skin care products all at Macy's.com slash gift finder make your holiday easy-peasy Macy Macy's dot com slash gift finder. I want to talk about queer eye because obviously so many of us, you know, know you from there and love the show or huge fans of the show. Is there another season coming? Yes, New Orleans. We just shot it. Well, you are a busy man.

Yes, she likes a coin. She likes to check. She likes to help people. She likes all of that stuff. So you just shot in New Orleans. Is that season seven? Seven and, yeah. But, you know, sometimes they split it, so it might be seven and eight.

You know, I never know. But it was a lot of fun. I love those four Yahoo with all my goddamn heart. Yeah. I was supposed to go to Heidi Kloom's party last night with Anthony and Jonathan and I ended up having to working. I mean, Carlos, she stayed home, which I was so pissed about. And you didn't get to see her as a worm.

I didn't get to see her as a worm. She's crazy. She's crazy. He's crazy. Her commitment to costumes. Is everything to me. I had a cute one. I was a male Cuella and I had like everything.

Aw. But anyway, so I love them and, you know, one of the things is like we're all hoping like even when this season comes out that it does well, we've been doing well. And that they give us another one because people are always like, oh, y'all are all doing your own projects and we're all like. But we still love this. Yeah. And it's so funny how people want to break us up and like think that we want to end the show just because we have another thing. It's like, no, girl, we can all multitask. Yeah.

It's okay. So tell me about getting that show because you said you, after the real world, you know, you went through all that difficult stuff. You went back to social services. Yeah. How did you end up on Queer Eye? It was because of Andy Cohen. I was watching Watch What Happens Live. Yeah.

And Carson Cresti was on and they said they rebooted it. And if you guys don't remember, Queer Eye was originally in Bravo. Bravo back in the day. And so they were talking about how they rebooted it. And Andy was like, oh, are you all the original fat five's coming back. And they were like, no, they're giving a brand new fat five. And I was like, girl, I didn't have be on that. It's like 11 o'clock in the morning.

And so the next morning I woke up and I was like calling everyone trying to get myself in. And I had just signed with this agent who I'm still with, first agent ever. And I was like, you have to get me in. He called and they said they're done with the casting. I said, no, I know my heart that I'm supposed to be here. And he called around, called this woman named Gretchen, who's the head of casting. And she snuck me in for a legitimate. interview two weeks before they did their final casting.

Like they had already been doing casting for a year and a half. Like Jonathan started a year and a half, 10, a year and a half. I was like at the very end. Wow. And we just talked and she liked that I could talk. She asked me what category. And I was like, girl, I don't know. I can cook. I can cook a little bit.

I can do a little fashion. I was like, girl, is there a category for all of them? She was like, I guess you're going to go out for culture. And I was like, okay. And so they literally brought me to the chemistry test. After that first interview. After that phone interview, like, and literally the chemistry test was like two weeks later, no joke. And that's when they picked the cast.

And I tell you this, when I got to the chemistry test, the first person I met was Tan and Bobby. And we hung together. And then Anthony came over and then Jonathan. And we had already clicked as a five. And we didn't know that we were different categories. And I think that's part of what helped us. that we naturally became friends in that first thing. Well, Jonathan was all, he always says, like, girl, I was, she's like, girl, I was,

like, wanting the show. It could have been y'all for anybody other. Like, she said that. She's like, you know what I mean? But in my mind, I'm like, girl, you knew you were with us. Yeah. That you were meant to kind of do this together. Yeah.

And so when I got to the casting, everybody else was like art museum people. They had, you know, were in ballets. And I was like, I'm supposed to go up against them. I was like, I'm a mental health expert. I was like, so I went to every, like, session because they'd bring us in. And I'd be like, well, I want to talk to people about their feelings and, like, figure out what's going on the inside. And I know those other culture guys were like, oh, he's going home. Immediately because they were all, like, showing, like, their art and, like, their ballets and their playbills.

Oh, like culture in that aspect, like culture. Culture. That's what everyone in that. It was like 30 guys or whatever. And you took it to a different place completely. Yeah, I was like, I was like, I can't compete with you. I was like, I can only talk about what I know. And I was like, I know about relationships and mental health.

And they were like, and they took a chance. And it worked. Wow. Yeah. But nobody else in that casting was like doing what I was doing. They were doing something completely different. Yeah. Yeah.

That's insane. So who are you closest to from the fat five? Bobby and Tan. Yeah. Yeah. And Bobby, because we're the oldest and we're both from Texas. And so we just have that nature. Tan because he's the glue of the Fat Five.

Yeah. He really is. I'll say he's the only one that like. If there's a decision that's split, he's the person that can get all of us to go on the same page. Oh, I love that. You would think it would be me, but I'm so fucking stubborn, but I'm like, no, it's, I want this way. Yeah. And then you have Jonathan on the side who's also stubborn.

You have Anthony who's sort of like very, very mild mannered. I don't want to say timid because he's not a timid man, but like very much like, I don't want the conflict. And then Bobby's also very like strong willed. So 10 is the glue. But I like that. because it counterbalances with me. And then like Jonathan is the one that I'll go out with all the time.

So I'm close to him in that instance. And then Anthony is the one that I have like deep conversations with. Yeah. So it's like weird because I'm close with all them. With all them and different. But Bobby, I would say is the closest where neighbors.

Our houses are two minutes away. Like I can see his backyard from my back. Oh my God. I love that. Do you or are we kind of weirdo? No, I love that. I love, I love, I love, I love, I live in the same building as most of my family.

So you know, okay. Yeah, I get it. So would you get it. So would you say. So would you say. would you say that your show the Karama show is kind of an extension of what your role on the show

Queer Eye? Yes, but it's more so the scenes like because later like once they caught on and people finally because season one and two people don't know what I was doing they were like they're like what is his role on the show they're like what is he's just talking and then like as it got as then we got into season two

and three I mean three there really three is when people realize what I did and they were like oh she's the girl that goes deep she's the one that like Does the wrap up on the inside, the self-esteem, the mental health. But I promise you, season one and two, people would be like... Well, you felt it? I felt it.

I read it. Really? We'd go into interviews and they'd be like, so... So we know what they do. And you always have to, like, explain. Always had to explain. You know what I mean? And even season one, they used to actually, like, cover up my long conversations and make me do these, like, weird projects where, like, I would do, like, build a website.

And, like, or... because they didn't know because everyone else had an action and so they were like you have to have an action and then like by the time season two came around and people started to pick up and they were like oh like when he comes on i get an emotional cry get a like cathartic moment then by season three they were like we don't need any more of the like you know stupid stuff we just need you to talk yeah and um and so but in later seasons like six and seven like there's an episode where like i brought together a guy in a wheelchair with a man who shot him there's an episode in season six where i brought together this Latino man and his whole entire family that they you know and they started seeing that

I could go out of just individual conversations and that's where my talk show more so extended from of like they saw that I could actually really help heal relationships between a guy who got shot by a man who shot him and like family members who were apart that they were like boom okay we can see this yeah and then that's how this show came came to be yeah and you were telling me I asked you And when he walked in, I was like, oh, daytime, that's what you kind of hear, the daytime talk shows. It's, like, really hard. It's a grueling. It's a grueling.

But I love it. But you love it. I love it. Because the thing is, is that for my, the intention of my show and anybody who works on my show, they'll tell you, like, before we go out, I pray, even though I didn't know what Jesus here was. Not to do a throwback, but I don't know what Jesus did on his 33rd year. But apparently I'm telling people that, but I pray. And I always, at the end of the prayer, I say, our intention is to make sure they leave better

than we found them. And so at the always on my show, no matter how much people like are in chaos or feeling like struggles, I literally always make sure I give them clear advice. I'm a really good listener and I hear all the nuances and I make sure they walk away and then like I give about therapy on my show. I am like really making sure people feel better and empowered when they leave. That is amazing. Yeah. And so and that's it. Well, you go to cromal show.com and you can check your local listening because it's nationwide. 90%? No, we're at a hundred. We were 90 when we announced. Oh.

We're in 100%. 100% of the country, honey. And girls, some places, like, shout out to Oklahoma. Y'all are, like, showing up and showing out. Thanks to, like, Kentucky, girl. Like, there are places like I've never been that are, like, showing me so much love. Oh, you look at ratings and things like that? Because it's like, not streamers.

It's like, they, like, look and see, like, girl, who's turning it on. Yeah. Well, Cromo's turning it on. Everyone. Go to Cromo Show.com. Find out where you can watch it. Or you can watch it. We'll tell you what station to watch it.

We also are on Nosey, which is like a Hulu type, you know, like streamer. And so we're there. And, oh, you can also watch on a Hulu if you do the Hulu live. Oh, if you do the Hulu live. Yeah. Who wouldn't want to watch this man in any way that we could? I love you. Promo, thank you for coming on.

Yeah, I feel like I can talk to you all day. We are literally, probably went on. Way too long. Yeah. But girlfriend, let me tell you something. If we actually did hang, because I'd be asking you a lot more questions. I know. I had to stop myself.

I could tell. Yeah. I want to ask you, like, yours as well. I know. I could tell. You need a podcast, too. No, I need to just come up for drinks. Okay.

Let's do drinks. A drink. Without the club, though. Oh, yeah. Not the club. Yes. Thank you, Karamo. You're literally the best.

Thank you. You too. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of not skinny but not fat. Follow me on Instagram at not skinny but not fat. Subscribe to the podcast. We don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcast and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocheroo. Thank you guys so much for listening,

and I'll see you next Tuesday. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.