Not Skinny But Not Fat - Jamie Lynn Sigler Is Finally Living Her Truth

Episode Date: May 12, 2026

Meadow Soprano raised me, so sitting down with Jamie Lynn Sigler felt surreal. Jamie joins me to talk about her new book, And So It Is, and opens up about her MS journey, why she kept it secret for so many years, and what finally made her feel ready to share everything publicly. We also get into her complicated relationship with her ex-husband/manager, working with the legendary James Gandolfini, feeling like she was always “a problem,” and so much more. This was one of those conversations that stayed with me long after we stopped recording.This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episodeGet $25 off your first purchase when you go to therealreal.com/notskinnyTo explore coverage, visit ASPCApetinsurance.com/NOTSKINNYShop the summer collection starting May 14th at shopminnow.com and enter code MEETMINNOW15 at checkout to receive 15% off your first order.Visit drinkspindrift.com and use code notskinny for 15% offFor a limited time, save 40% on your first month at ritual.com/NOTSKINNYHead to wayfair.com to shop all things homeWatch Running Point S2, now. Only on Netflix.Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to the not skinny but not fat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch, and I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars on my very own podcast where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. Hello, blue, blue. Hi, everybody. Happy Tuesday.

Welcome back to a new episode of Not Skinny Not Fat. It's her girl, Amanda. What's up, guys? My God, you know, when you have a busy week coming in a day, up and you're like, uh, and you're like literally like, I'm such a busy way. I have such a word. I'm just a pretty much. But at the same time, I will say that I am a type, I am a person that likes being busy. Like on days that I'm like from thing the thing, I'm like, I feel good. You know what I mean? Like if I feel good, I feel good. You know what I mean? If I'm from thing to thing and I like

forgot to drink water or eat and I get a headache and I'm like, you know, dragging, then I'm not happy. But if I'm from thing to thing and I'm thriving and I end the day and I'm in the car on the way back home and I'm like, damn, I feel good. Oh, it's hungry. Always need to be ordering food while I'm in the Uber home. But yeah, I love to be busy, which is why it's funny that I also dread when there is a lot coming up and a lot of good stuff. You know what I mean? Like good, you know, rich people problems. I don't know if that's something.

That's me translating from Hebrew, I think. Oh, it's high class problems. Okay, high class problems. Whatever. Obviously, it's not problems. It's just like, it's a lot. So next week, what's happening? Tuesday, I'm doing my apartment redecoration. What do you call it? I also, like, can't speak English. Like, apartment, it's not a renovation. It's like a redesign. I'm having the girls over at Klein and Kramer design, Lauren and Kim. Shout out to Lauren and Kim. And the amazing Frank from Home Interiors, who's custom making all the furniture. Well, they've been working on it for months upon months. And we're actually doing just the entryway, which leads into the living room, which leads into the playroom, which leads into the dining room. Because, like, I live in a New York City apartment, which is funny that at the same time that I'm working on this for the past few months with these lovely designers, customizing all my furniture, which is wild, has been sending me listings to the little listings in New Jersey. I'm like, not only does he want to move to New Jersey, he wants to buy in New Jersey before we even, like, know if.

we like it. Like, I can't commit like that, which is funny. I've been married for 15 years, but like I can't. I'm like, I am not buying anything right away in a place I've never lived before. I don't care that you can sell it. Like, I'm not fucking doing that. Anyway, I'm like, do you know that we're like fucking changing our whole apartment right now? Like how? Anyway, that's part of it. So it's two days. The whole install is two days and I'm overwhelmed by it. Like, I want it to happen, but I'm also like thinking of having to get everything out and then have everything come in is like overwhelming me. And at the same time, I have like things and things and things. We have the Hulu show filming, Get Real, which I hope you guys are watching on Hulu. It's such a dream come true

for me to be like hosting a show that isn't my own show. That isn't this. The hosting like a talk show vibe show, which is what Get Real is. So definitely a dream come true. And last time I went to the Hollywood Reporter's most powerful people in media event, you know, I have a to like really like just tell you how these events work. It's like invited to this event. It's so chic. I'm going to go. They're honoring Stephen Colbert. It's at the Daniel, which is on the upper east, beautiful, beautiful. Now the reason and I know in my year of yes, or I'm on my second year of yes, but why I've been to know is like, do you know what you have to do to go to an event? Like not to be like Simone Biles right now. I mean, I didn't pay 23K,

but yes, you have to invest. Like you're going to have your picture taken. You want to look good. You want to like do glam, get a nice dress, pay for a stylist if you need to help. And that's it. Right. It's like the glam and the fit. But that's like also hours of your time getting ready with the glam and the getting dressed and everything for maybe an hour and a half like of the party. You know, because it was a mingling event. So it was like red carpet and then like mingling. And that's that. You know? And so like Simone Biles is getting some shit. I don't know if she's getting shit, but like 23K, like, we are trying to figure out, like, how it amounted to 23K. I don't know if you guys saw Simone Biles was saying, like, I don't, I'm staying home from now on

because I tried to go to an event and I pay 23K just for the glam and the styling. But I don't know, like, did she buy a really expensive designer dress? Like, I don't know. Like, did she get, like, anything specially made for her? Like, I don't know what they were charging her, but that was a little bit wild. Anyway, also at the Hollywood Reporter event, I was telling this story to my friends and they were dying. So I'm on the carpet and USA Today was there. They were doing this like game and it's so loud at the party. It was like I said, just mingling music. And the guy, the reporter from USA Today goes,

okay, so I mean, I want to play a game with you. It's called yay or what I heard gay. And I'm like, in my head like computing quickly like, gay or gay. Like that doesn't sound right. Like what the nay is gay like what are we in 1945 like what is happening and i say to him like yay or gay and he goes yeah because he couldn't hear me because it was so loud and i say it again yay or gay he goes yeah but he's hearing yay or nay i'm hearing yay or gay confirming with him that that's what he's saying he's confirming and in my mind i'm like it can't be it can't be that the the the what you would think is nay he's putting gay like i'm going to say something not good is gay like what what is what is happening this can't be true, but that's what he's saying.

He's confirming. So then the whole time I'm just saying yay to everything, because I'm like, I'm not going to call something gay that's, that's like bad. That's not even the worst part because I get through that. I say yay to everything. Then I go to the party. I literally talk shit the whole party. I'm spreading a rumor.

USA Today is doing a game called yay or gay. And I'm telling like important people this story. I'm like, could you believe the USA Today is, playing yay or gay, flash forward to them posting that bit and them writing, playing yay or nay with not skinny, but not fat. And I'm like, of course you were playing yay or nay. Like, what the fucking hellie? Did I think?

Did I do? Did I say? And did I create? Like, am I bored in my life that I'm creating drama? Oh my God. I was dying. Anyway, let's get into today's episode, which I can't explain to you how much this woman has, like, entered my heart. Like, I'm still talking about her.

There's still moments on the pod that I'm thinking about. Listening to her book was just, I felt so, like, connected to her. And we know a lot of mutual people. And she's written me, like, really beautiful notes before. and I just could tell she was a special person and then listening to her book and then meeting her and having this conversation with her like,

you'll see how much she is. Such a special person. Jamie Lynn Sigler, you know her, Meadow Soprano. It's funny, I tell her what she meant to me. Like it kind of ties in to me the host of the show.

And she really is in my heart now. I'm like, you know, like that happens sometimes in life. where I'm like, no, I love her. Like, you can tell she's a special person. If you guys haven't heard about her book is called and so it is. It's out now. And she details like hiding MS from the world from everybody for about like 15 years.

Like she got diagnosed with that when she was still in The Sopranos. So here it is enjoying my conversation with Jamie Lynn Sigler. How's your strut? Is it better? I'm better. So don't worry. I'm not going to be. I'm on end of biotics.

It wasn't even where my head was at. I just feel for you. like scared that people will think of infecting them. I'm like the least. We talk about it. Really? I'm the least germaphove. I,

I'm like embarrassed how little I think about it. Stop. I know. You're so like health conscious. I know. You think I would be care more. No. I guess I just care about so many other things.

I don't have the bandwidth. No, yeah, yeah. It's like we have more important things going on in the world. But I got strep again. And then I got food poisoning like, or it's the end of, sometimes you don't know like what's going on.

Yes. But I bombed. like two days after the strep. And I think it was from Nobu. Oh. Or antibiotics that are killing my gut again. I'll have to do like a tough fucking like toxic flush or something. Always.

So dumb. Hi, my love. Hi. JLS. Yes. In the house. In the house. I'm so happy.

I have followed you and been such a fan of you for so long. You feel like my people. And then as my people have met you and they would be like, you would love her. I'm like, I know I would. I already do. I love that. Your notes, because I received a couple from you, your notes. Yes.

Like with your book, the note you wrote to me about how I've always shared my authentic self and this is your, you sharing your authentic self in the book. I love that so much. Thank you. You're such a, I mean, I don't know if it was just in this book, but like you're, you seem like the type of person also with your friends that are obsessed with you and have your schedule and are on your PR team. just a person that is so, people connect with so much, the way you just put yourself out there

and share like the raw, vulnerable, emotional moments. That's newer, though, you know, and I owe that a lot to my friends for sort of giving me the safe space to bring that out. And I think for many years I was, like, they were just trying to get me to see myself through their eyes and see what I just couldn't see. And I think them accepting me and loving me and teaching me that none of the things that have happened to me define me or take away my value or my worth. I just owe so much of who I am today to my friends and the way that they've loved me, for sure. Which is so, I feel like, important because you're married, you have a family,

but you still had such a special place for your friends in your life. Oh my gosh. But also in the book. Yes. And that's, you know, the people that we know in common. They're like, people, people. They go back with you, what, like 20 years? Yeah, more. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah, they've seen all of the phases of me and all of the colors of me and this evolution because for so many years, they held secrets for me. And they held, you know, information and things about me that I just wasn't ready to share with the world. I never felt like I could or should and to have their support and they're reminding. And also, you know, they've shown up for me in really hard times in my life and reminded me also, like the friend that I am back. You know what I mean?

Yeah. That's also important. You can't have friends like that if you're not a friend like that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I ride hard for my friends. And I think they know that. I hope they know that.

I have to go back even more. And I think I DM do this because it's you to me. you know, Meadow, soprano. I told you I went to acting class when I was 14. Yeah. In New York City. And the reason I chose this acting class was because they had your poster. I don't know if you even went there.

I did. Oh, you did. I took a commercial class. Was it acting? Acting. Well, this is when I was like, if Meadow went here, then I'm going here. I did. I did, you know, I grew up on Long Island.

I did all community theater. And then in the summers, I would like try to find like professional acting classes in New York City because I wasn't in school. So I had the time. So my mom would drop me off at acting on those summer days. And I would take like, yeah, commercial classes. It was like those classes that you then watch yourself. I know. So bizarre.

So bad. I remember they had us like create a commercial. And I did mine about a trapper keeper. Do you remember trapper keepers? No. Oh, you would have to get these binders for school every year, like where you would go, you know, school supply shopping and there was a thing called Trapper Keepers and it was like a Velcro and you could

get like Lisa Frank ones or like all the Virgin. So yeah, I did a commercial about Trapper Keepers. You made up a commercial about it. I did. And then had to watch yourself and have the whole class like critique you. Correct. And how did you handle that as that? Because I couldn't take that.

I hated it. I hated it. To be honest, I thought that was further proof that I was never meant to be on camera and that I was just meant to be in the theater. Because honestly, I would go out for when anything professional was for commercial auditions. And I would always get nose because they wanted you in a box. She was like either quote unquote all American, which usually you meant you were like

blonde, red hair with freckles. You were Hispanic and I wasn't Hispanic looking enough. So I just never fit any boxes. So I just never thought I would be on TV. So you loved, loved, love theater. Yes. But the on camera you you weren't sure of. I just didn't feel like there was a place for me.

I just didn't feel like I looked. like somebody that could be on camera. But I was wondering about you because in your book, and so it is, you talk about, you know, the kind of kid that you were a little bit and then the kind of, you know, woman that you've become. But a lot of times when people are like child actors or stars, you go back and their home videos are like, they're like huge extroverts and you don't sound that way. No. So tell me about that.

It's almost like performing became this. escaped for me. I was so riddled with insecurities and fear of the world. I was raised by an immigrant mother who came from Cuba, who had her own traumatic upbringing and in a way to sort of protect myself, her and my grandmother would always tell me like, everybody's jealous, be careful of other women. And so I just had this, like, and me as somebody who like desperately just wants to be liked and connect with people, I just kind of didn't know. how to do that, but in performing, I did. Like on stage I did. I could fall into another role. I could fall into another sort of person's way of being that felt safe and comfortable and I could express

myself safely in that way. And it just felt, yeah, it just felt fun. It was like the time that I could actually be a kid was when I was performing. So your mom is the Cuban. Is that the Jewish side? No. My dad was born in Brooklyn. He's Greek-Romanian, Sephardic, do. Okay. But she converted to Judaism when she married my dad. Oh, she did? Because all the, the prayers that you were talking about that your mom and Mima, those were like Latin. Yeah. And is Mima still with us? No, she passed away two days before her 103rd birthday. I saw she celebrated a hundred and something. I'm like, we're good, but I wanted to know how, so, okay. But she, RIPA, she sounded like such an amazing woman. The greatest human. 100 and what? 103. A day before. A day before. She was at her

103 birthday party at a Cuban restaurant on Long Island with my family. And she walked out and died in the parking lot, just dropped out in a total. She had literally was taking tequila shots right before. Like that's what a legend she is. Wow. That is amazing. May we all. That's right. May we all. Exactly. And you're a tourist. Birthday is a bit away. Yeah. Yeah. Close. Very close. I love tourists, by the way. I'm married to one. I get along with tourists.

What are you? Gemini. Okay. So we're like. Yeah, yeah. We're close. We're close. Yeah.

Yeah. And you do feel like the kind of tourist that my husband is, which is the very like grounding person, you know, have you always been that way? No. I think I had more of the stubborn tourists for a really long time. I mean, maybe I gave the appearance of being grounded, but underneath was just like a, a, an absolute mess. But I think as I've gotten older, I've been able to sort of embody more of that groundedness. And you said that when you auditioned for the Sopranos, like your relationship with your mom helped you kind of prepare for that audition. In what way? I mean, we did not vibe as when I

was a teenager at all. I was really trying to break away. We were so close in like a way. Like she drove me to all my auditions. She was at every performance of mine. And while I can look back and think, what an incredible supportive mother, there was a part of me that, like, didn't want her around all the time and was kind of rebelling. And so we were fighting a lot during that time. So when I was presented with my audition scene of Meadow fighting with Carmela about like wanting going to ski trip with her friends and her mom not letting her, I was like, oh, this is my life. I know exactly how to do this. Did you think you were going to get the role after the audition? No. Not a chance. I wanted to go to urban outfitters in the city in Soho and shop. And that's the only reason I wanted to go to the audition. I was so...

Urban outfitters. Everything. Every day. I wanted like, you know, rubber platforms, sandals and fell bottoms. And it felt so expensive. Like, I might have, like, walked out with a few things sometimes. Like on my, like, I was like, this hat? I don't walk out with it on my head. No one will know. I was too busy in there. Urban outfiters. That was a time. So many clothes and the city. I know. I still get excited when I see one. I know. So you just wanted to, you were like, I just did another audition. Nothing will come of it. No expectations whatsoever. I was ready to finally go to sleepaway camp like every other friend that I grew up with that summer. Because this was what age? 16. 16. So I was going to be a CIT. I was just going to finally get that experience. I was so excited to go. You know, I was the set kind of in between age also in theater. There weren't many roles for me because I was too old to play a kid, too young to play a kid. Too young to play.

anything else and finally wanted to know what all this sleepway camp stuff was about. So that was my focus. So I was, I guess, so blissfully unattached and, you know, available to kind of just like perform without thinking, pick me. Right. That's how it happens. But you can't fake that shit. You cannot fake that shit. Like when you get more desperate, it shows. But when you're like, I don't care if I get it or not. Correct. And I've been desperate more times than not. So I know the difference of that energy. And I loved in the book how you described, you know, that first day, the table read. I love getting the behind the scenes of these sorts of things, you know? Oh, I'm glad. Yeah. Because, like, we don't know how this shit works, you know? For sure. And it's just,

it was a really special alchemy in that room that you just was undeniable. And I was so green, right? I'm, like, literally coming from, like, just doing sound of music at the Y. And, like, here I am in a room with, like, all of these incredibly talented people. And I just had no idea how much my life was about to change. You didn't know at all. No one did, though. None of us did. And you were still living at home going to set.

So how long was that the situation? I was at home for the first. So we shot the pilot and there was a whole year in between then actually starting to shoot the first season of the show. So it was my summer going into my junior year. I shot the pilot. And then towards the end of my. junior year and senior year, I shot the first season. And by the end of my senior year, it started to air, which was so cool to experience with my friends who had like seen this, you know, pipe dream of

mine. But the way you were talking about in the book, you were like, no one really cared about it at the beginning. No. And I liked that, though. I was always able to sort of have this kind of like really normal life and then explore show business. And then even when the show began, I still wanted to straddle that. I still wanted to just be Jamie Sigler and like be all the things just my friends knew and then have this. But it was also cool to be able to celebrate that moment with them. It sounds like you didn't want to be famous. You wanted to work. Yes. Which is still the case. Yes. Really. Yeah. So that never appealed to you the like glitz and glamour of it all. Terrified me and was really difficult for me the first especially few years.

because I was heavily scrutinized and made fun of. You talked about that. Yeah. Made fun of, though. Yeah, I mean, to my face. I mean, I had somebody call me live in a radio show and tell me that they had bets with their friends how much weight I had gained in between seasons. I cannot.

I looked back at, you know, after you talked about the Maxim photo shoot, I was like, she was smoking hot. And in the book, you're talking about, like, them not having your size at photo shoots, being like, oh, she's not sample size. you know, screaming. I'm like, what? It was kind of ruthless back then, for sure. It was, you felt immense pressure. And I already was coming into it, not feeling like I looked like a Hollywood star and how, you know, these people that I was seeing on the CW shows that I loved looked like. So then to have all that confirmed to my face was really difficult. But thankfully,

on the soprano set, it was anything but. Right. They didn't. care. They just loved me however I was. They just wanted me well. But anytime I stepped out of that, it was really difficult. And you said you would read like blogs. You would go into specific websites at the time and like read about, which is like a no-no. I know, but like I was so young. Like how could you not? Yeah, HBO had these like message boards and there was one labeled Meadow and I went to go look and it was just all mean, all brutal. And I was devastated. Absolutely. devastated. We'll be right back after the break. A quick message from today's sponsor, the ASPCA pet health insurance program. If you've ever found yourself awake at 2 a.m., your phone is in your hand.

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And we're back. You describe in the book dealing with like eating disorders and a lot of stuff going on while you're filming. Yeah. How did you navigate? all of that? How did you come out the other side? Not well. You know, I think, unfortunately, for many of the things that I talk about and I struggled with in the book, I went through them all alone in my own head and in my own way. And I just, I didn't know how to ask for help. I didn't know how to open myself up. You know, I think the eating disorder would have happened regardless

of the show. I think it was just the time and my fragile way of thinking that led me into that space, but then, you know, I made really poor decisions. I had fallen and hurt my nose and went to a plastic surgeon knowing that I was coming up to film the show. And then he tells me he can tweak it just a little bit. And the next thing I know, I'm, I have a nose job. Wait, so the nose job happened just after the pilot. Correct. Meaning one episode is out with you looking one way. And then you guys come back for the full season. And I'm 40 pounds lighter with a different face pretty much. 40 pounds, Jamie, for real? Did I know you talk about David Chase.

Is he the creator of it? Yes. And did they mention anything? They will, I was under 18. So my mom was still coming to set with me. So they brought my, after the first, after the read through, they brought my mom into her room. And I was sort of left there waiting. And I just, I knew what was happening.

I knew that they were confronting her about my size and my face. And I was convinced I was going to get fired. and they toyed with that idea and rightfully so. You know, I totally understand why they would have, you know, entertained that. I don't know why the decision was made to keep me and continue. I'm obviously grateful that they did. But that sort of unfortunately set the tone for me for the rest of the shooting of that show that I just felt so less than I felt like such a burden.

I felt like such a problem. I felt just so undeserving. and so not good enough to be on that show. You say in the book all the time and it's like, I wanted to shake you. Like, you're like, can I just not be the problem for once? Like, I'm like, you're not the problem. I know, but I felt that way. And because you weren't expressing it, nobody knew that you were feeling that way.

So nobody could console you. Did you share this with like your parents or your brothers? No, not even. I just, I thought that I needed to be professional. I thought that I needed to be a grown-up. I thought that I needed to have my stuff together. So I presented it that way. And underneath, I was just a mess.

And then so by the time I met my first husband, he was, he felt like he was, he came into my life to save me. Because you were so young too. Exactly. You married AJ Discollar 22. So you met when? I met at 19. Before we get into him, because that's a whole thing,

I did want to also point out that I loved and appreciated how in the book you talk about acting, you know, I think in a way that other actors don't really like shed the light on, which is like very much like it's a profession, it's a skill kind of vibe. And like there were moments where you felt like you weren't doing your best or moments where they had you have an acting coach or moments where you felt like you were better or worse. And I feel like that's so interesting like for the reader, but also probably so. true for everyone in the field, but we don't think about it or hear about it from anybody else. Well, you don't want to, I knew that I didn't want to ever say that because I didn't want to seem like not capable. Like you want to kind of be like, yeah, I know what I'm doing and confident and ready. But it felt so liberating to share all of these things and just be like, I was not that great that day. Or I was called out for not being great that day. And that must be such a, like,

what is that? Bring me into that kind of moment where like you're already on the set, probably you're used to it, but like for an outsider, overwhelming, you know, cast, crew, everyone, you have to perform. They're unhappy with it. It's like, do it again, but better. Like, you know? Yeah. I mean, I, I wish that girl could have been like, I'm sorry. Can someone please help me? Like, I'm going through a lot right now. Like, I didn't know. I was, I just took it. I just took it as just another dagger, another proof of just how not good enough I was. And I, you know,

I remember when I was working with an acting coach and it was Jim Gannelfini's coach who he gifted to me, I remember him literally grabbing me by the shoulders one day and being like, everybody has a fucking coach. Like, I have a coach. I will not work without a coach. Yeah. Tom Hanks has a coach.

Like, it is part of being an actor. Like, we need support. We need people to help us shape and do things. you cannot do this. And the thing that he would always repeat to me all the time, no matter what I was going through, would be like, you're just a kid. You're a fucking kid.

And I couldn't hear him in the moment. Yeah. But I can look back now and be like, oh my God, I was just a kid. And also like, this was your learning experience. Exactly. It was your first job. I didn't have to know it all.

Like you didn't have to know it all or be, you know, Meryl Streep as you first walked onto the set. That's right. Right. I was, I was allowed to be curious and allowed to ask questions. And by the way, that's how I feel now. It's so nice. Like, the way I work now is still like, oh, like, somebody help me out. This isn't working. Like to feel that. Or ask questions. Yeah. Ask questions or get help. I mean, it's just, we're not going to go through anything in life alone. And I just, I learned that the really hard way. Well, in the book, you even talk at one point about thinking about quitting acting. Multiple times. Which I'm glad that you didn't. And Gary, your guy over here told you something that really stuck with you. Yeah, that, you know, that, well, first of all, I thought when I called Gary and my manager, John, at the time, I thought that I was doing them a favor of just being like, hey, guys, I'm done. Like, thank you for supporting me.

And I thought that they would be like, okay, Jamie, like, we get it. It's been so fun. We love you. But to my shock, both of them were like, absolutely not. You're pulling yourself out of this for reasons in your. own head and the best advice was given me was the only difference with people that have longevity in this career and that don't is if they can wait long enough at the station for the train to come back. I love that. And I feel like it's not only in acting careers, by the way. For anything.

For anything. That's right. Yeah. It's like just it shows faith in yourself and trust in the universe and just like the you always can look back and see the perfect timing of things. Right. But when you're in the moment and it feels like it's not happening. you feel like it never will. You know, thinking about you being a kid on Sopranos, there were so many moments in the book, too, where, you know, they were so relatable and something I feel like I would do

when you were taking the subway to set because no one told you. That I could get a ride. No one told me, but I didn't think to ask. But that they could have told you. You know what I mean? Maybe, you know, there's a story that didn't get into the book

where when they called to book my second season fitting, they were like, okay, we can see Jamie on like, blank, blank this Friday. And it was the day after my senior prom. And again, I was still so green. I didn't, and a people pleaser, I didn't think to ask for another day. So I made these plans where I was like, okay, on Long Island, when you went to your prom, then you would take a limo to the city and go to a club. And then you would take it to the Hamptons and stay at some like shitty hotel for two days with your friends before graduation.

So I was like, okay, I'll go from the Hampton. to my fitting and then go back to the Hamptons. Well, I decided to take ecstasy for the first time at my senior prom. And so not only was I completely cracked out of my head, but I fell asleep on the Hampton Jitney and woke up in Jersey with no cell phone. I was supposed to be in Long Island City for my fitting, like showed up like literally cracked out of my mind for my second season fitting, not knowing that I could have just asked for another day. But was there no one there? We didn't know. I didn't. I like had like my manager lived in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Yeah, it was a small, it was like a small manager at the time. That's right. Yes. And my parents. You didn't think you could ask for another day. You didn't think you could ask for a car. You're like part of this. You're a soprano. I know. You're not like a background character. You're on season two. I'm cracking up. Still no. That's, it's still me. It's so I feel like I'm still like that. I feel like that. Someone can pay for this? That's right. I know. It's a, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's. It's, it's. It's, it's, it's, it's. It's. It's. It's. It's. It's hard to ask for things. Very, very, very. And I, it's, I, I still like to be, I still like to present.

And I feel like I am like somebody that's like, I'm a team player. I don't need anything extra. Yeah. You know, like, and I, I feel that way. Because I just, I never, I don't feel better than anyone. I never want to put that on. Like, I just, I want everyone to feel comfortable and, and amazing. But sometimes you were like bending over backwards and, and doing... To my own detriment. Yeah. Because you tried to go to college.

I did. And do the sopranos at the same time. Yeah. And I want... Because I had done everything else with all my friends. Right? Yeah. And that didn't work out.

No. I mean, I was going to NYU, which I thought would work out. But I was... I didn't want to go into the theater program because I had no formal training before that. And I thought it would might like mess with my head. I don't know. It's really what I should have done. What did you go for again?

Psychology. So I went to School of Arts and Sciences and I moved into the dorm, really wanted the whole experience. But unfortunately, you know, Sopranos wasn't going to work around my college class schedule. It also wasn't like what it, like, it was still a year or two away from being a big show. Only the first season it aired. So maybe one of my professors knew about it because I would kind of be like, I'm on this TV show. So like sometimes I might miss class. And by the time I was finishing my first semester, I was feeling two classes because I had missed too many times.

So, yeah, unfortunately, it didn't pan out. But you really thought you would be able to keep this kind of like normy life going for a while. Yeah. I really did. I tried. I really tried. So, I mean, I guess you can't, it's like you can have no regrets there because you're like, I tried. And yes. And I've gone through so much of my life with feeling such regret and, feeling such shame. And I honestly feel like in writing this book, I was actually able to just let a lot of that go. How many seasons of the Sopranos have? It was 10 years of your life. It's 10 years, but it's like the final season is season 6A and then 6B. So it's kind of seven seasons. So you went through so many phases during the show. Yes. One of them you found out you were

diagnosed with MS during? Yes. During Sopranos. Yes, between season three and four. And again, something that you didn't share with anybody hid like the biggest secret on earth. Oh, the biggest secret. I mean, I remember right after getting diagnosed, I was with my ex-husband at the time and my parents and we came home from the hospital. And there wasn't even a discussion around like, how are you feeling? How are you doing? Like we should research MS.

Like, it was like, hey, we tell no one about this. And I understand everybody's intention at the time. But that's what felt like the most. important thing to address. Because if people found out, that was what was like the question popping up in my head throughout the book. What was the worst case scenario if people found out? Like, what were you envisioning then? Being fired, never being hired, having people just think of MS every time they saw them. And I also didn't know what MS was going to mean for me. I didn't know how it was going to manifest for me. And I also think I wanted to kind of forget about it.

I wasn't really symptomatic. How did you find out about it exactly? So I'd had this bout with Lyme's disease or we thought or think Lyme's disease. So was it not? I don't know. There's so many theories about could Lyme's lead to MS or could it have mimicked Lyme? We're not, we'll never really know. I've sort of let that go because it is what it is. But I had felt this like numbness, heaviness, tingling in my feet. And I also had lost my bladder, like incontinence a couple of times. And I'm like, I thought it was like a UTI. Like I didn't know what was going on.

And then so a year and a half later, it started to come back, like that heaviness tingling feeling again. And I just went to the hospital. I was like, I need to go to the ER. I'll get these antibiotics again or steroids for Lyme. And I'll be fine. And for whatever reason, they wanted to do another spinal tap and do another MRI.

And I was not prepared. or expecting for, you know, the neurologist to walk in and tell me that I had MS. And it's an easy thing to diagnose because they see those lesions that you were describing. But those sometimes don't show up for a couple of years. So I know that there's sometimes people that can go a really long time without being diagnosed. In hindsight, I was actually really lucky how quickly I got diagnosed. Because treating it earlier is helpful. It's helpful.

If I was a good patient, it probably would have been. I mean, I think sometimes I wonder physically how I would be. be had I taken care of myself better during that time? You mean the medication part or the like lifestyle? All of it. All of it. But you were 20, 20. 20.

But Jamie, do people usually get diagnosed this early? They can. They can. Yeah. Actually, between 20 and 30 for women is the most common time to get diagnosed. Yeah. I feel like there isn't that much awareness about that, that it can happen at those ages. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I find most of the women that I've talked to that are like my age all kind of got diagnosed around that time. But yes, there's other people that can get diagnosed later in life. So do people that don't, that they don't see those lesions, does it kind of not get confirmed until they do? Like sometimes people will be like, oh, looking back, I've been symptomatic for a decade and I just didn't know what it was or was writing it off as different things. Also, MS presents itself differently for everybody. You know, there's some common denominators and common symptoms, but it's really it's really an individual experience. So does it matters where you have the lesions,

kind of how it affects you? Yeah. So where certain things are affect my right side, my right leg, my spasticity, my muscle tone, bladder stuff. That's where like my damage quote is. So you don't deal with this when you find out about it. You're kind of like, I have this thing, like you shove it under the rug. That's right. Try to do what you're told. Don't fully. do what you're told? No, the medication was really painful and made me really sick every time I took it every week. So if we were traveling, I just wouldn't pack it. Yeah. You know, I wasn't in any type of physical therapy. I was, you know, living a very unhealthy lifestyle and also a lot of stress. I was in a really very toxic relationship at the time. And, you know, also the show was the

biggest thing in the world at the time, the same time, too. And so trying to sort of manage all that while seemingly being the perfect, you know, little castmate was really took its toll on me physically as well. Right, because you're kind of bearing all this down, not talking about it, and not dealing with it. And it's like, we know now, you're not going to deal with it. You're going to deal with it later. That's right. Kind of thing. That's right. We'll be right back after the break. It's so exciting when I partner with one of my favorite, favorite brands on Earth that are now part of the pod family spin drift. I feel like I'm an OG. I feel like I discovered you.

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all sarcast. I mean, I don't need to convince you. Just like literally pop it on. Watch Running Point Season 2 now only on Netflix. And we're back. Thinking about how young you were is such a huge factor, because how much dumb shit do we do in our, you know, teens and 20s to handle this kind of news and, like, be good about it and be

diligent. Like, that's almost not feasible. Yeah. And I've had a lot of moments, to be honest, of feeling like things were really unfair. Like, I've had, I've had, like, so much, so many moments of being resentful, of being like, this is so unfair. Like, I'm not able to just be young and be a kid and having to constantly think about. my body or constantly being out with my friends and like them having no idea the pain or struggle that I'm feeling because I just want to be normal like everybody else. It's been, it's been a heavy burden to carry for a long time. And one of the more beautiful things about it, though, is that my circumstances physically haven't changed, but I, I'm so much

happier and freer now than I was then just because my perspective has changed. You know? Yeah. Even, you know, reading the book and, you know, you talk a lot about the shame that you had with this and how much you hit it. I mean, there were moments where I was like holding my breath because you were literally on sets, hiding, directors asking you what's up. You're still, you're lying.

So much lying. So much lying. So much lying. It came so easy to me. I could not imagine a world where I could ever be honest about anything, especially with myself. It was just, it was so heartbreaking and so difficult. But it's like, it almost like the tension was building. Like as years went on and with each job, it was like, I couldn't hide it anymore. Like the amount of times I was constantly being called out. And instead of me looking at it

as opportunities to just ask for help. Yeah. And like, it could have been like this olive branch from the universe. It always felt like a threat. It felt like, no, now I have to cover it up. even more. I have to take it deeper. You had twice, I think, right, where doctors were called on set to check you out. Yeah. I'm like thinking of you in those moments where you know what's going on. They don't.

A doctor is coming, a professional who, who, you know, could call me out. Right. 100%. It's what I expected to happen every time. So in those moments, what do you remember, like what you were feeling? Like I was getting attacked by a bear. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

It's true fight or flight. Yeah. trauma, like my life is about to be over. And I, I also a lot of like the guilt and shame that I carried was because of the lies that I was telling. I felt so bad about it. I hated being dishonest. I, I just felt like, I don't know, I couldn't imagine how, in my head, how angry people would be at me. I remember when I told my manager John for the first time and I braced myself, and I would have accepted it and expected him to be disappointed that I hadn't, told him. And I remember him being like more just heartbroken. Like, oh, wait, I just, I hate that

you were going through this without me. And I never, ever expected anyone to react that way. Do you think if the people that were closest to at the time, like your parents, AJ, you were married to, if they would have said, Jamie, tell them. Yes. You think if somebody that you trusted would have said that to you, you think you would have acted differently. Yes. because at that point, I think I had felt like I'd made so many bad decisions, and I didn't trust myself, right? It was like the eating disorder, the nose job, the album. Like, I thought, well, you talk about that. I need to go listen now.

No, don't. Please. Actually, somebody came up to me yesterday and they're like, I can't find it on Spotify. I was like, good, good. But I just, I don't know. I had just felt like I was the least trustworthy person. Like, I was not the person to trust my decisions. And so AJ was the person that I trusted the most.

He knew it was best. He was there to guide me and save me and tell me what to do. I just wanted to be told what to do. And everyone was down with the lie. Yeah, everyone was the only way. I mean, even up until the moment where I became public about it, 10 years ago, my mom was terrified for me to say it out loud. Do you have any, like, resentment towards her about it?

No, I understand. Yeah. I understand where she just wanted to protect me. She was just so scared for me and she was just, you know, I understand why. It was all good intention, you know, I, it comes from her own shit, you know? Yeah. It's hard. I mean, it's easy to blame our parents for everything, you know?

Of course. Like, why did you tell me to do this? Why didn't you tell me to do this? But you were already trusting you were saying your husband. Yeah. You were 20. Yeah. And he was 10 years older.

And 10 years older. And he's in on this telling you to hide it. But he was also there for you, right? He was. That's the kind of relationship you were describing, which is always an interesting one of like, you can tell this isn't good. But I could also tell, you know, that you felt taken care of in a way. And he was also my manager.

Right. So this was a man that was just guiding every aspect of my life. he wanted the best for me more than, and he was told me. Like, no one knows you better than me. No one wants more for you than me. Like, I'm going to make sure that all your dreams come true. And this, like, handsome older man, like, literally just came in and saved the day. He got me out of the hole with the album. He got me out of just so many things. And now he was there to protect me. And yes, they were as toxic as this relationship and dark as some of our moments were. He also was the guy there for. He also was the guy there for me when I peed my pants in a speaking engagement. And I couldn't stand in the Emmy's carpet

anymore in my high heels. And he ran over Famke Johnson to like pick me up. You know, like he really, he really was there for me. And I wanted to, especially writing about that time in my life, be really conscious of not making him like one dimensional. You know what I mean? Like he wasn't all bad. And I can see, I can understand when you're reading it and you could be like, this guy's an asshole or like, oh my God, a narcissist or like, look at what he's saying to her. But in the moment, it felt like love. And it felt genuine. And I think it felt that way for him too. Did you reach out to him about including him in the book? He's in jail. So, I mean, they can write letters. Correct. But I kind of put this like flare out. Which may be coming a year away. Maybe. I kind of put this flare out to the universe a

couple of weeks ago where I was like, I wish I could just speak to someone in his life about this book that's about to come out. And his brother randomly texted me because someone he knew was in Austin where I live. Is that normal for you to talk to his brother? No, I cannot remember the last time to him and I have spoken. And we ended up having a long face time. And I told him, I wrote a book. It's coming out. I speak of my time with AJ. And I just want to tell you that I accept whatever reactions you guys may have, I met no harm. This was not my intention to hurt anyone. And I apologize if I cause any pain to anyone truly. And that's, I just wanted an opportunity to say that and for him to know like where my heart was. And this is really just about my story and my journey.

And he was a big part of it, you know, for a long time. And I'm just really grateful that I got that chance. And again, I don't know how it will be received by him. That's what did the brother want to hang out in Austin? No, he has actually, his son had just moved to Austin and he was mentioning that he was coming and maybe we could sort of reconnect. So yeah, but it was it was what I needed and what I wanted. How did he receive the news about the book? He said, this is your story and I'm proud of you and I think it's wonderful that you're sharing. I mean, I did, I do think that you gave him, you know, you mentioned the facts. The facts are that, you know, that was a relationship. You did mention a lot of him being there for you and helping it.

You mentioned that he stole money that you didn't. There was money missing. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But yeah. But yeah, because I have to be careful with how we say things. Totally. But, you know, but I also get to talk about like this wonderful weird kismit moment 15 years later, right? Because when we were getting divorced, I just, I didn't want to go to court. I didn't want to. I just needed it to be done.

I just needed us to move on from each other. Are you proud of yourself for doing that? You know, my dad still tells me to this day that that's the most proudies ever been. I mean, because whenever people split up, I'm like, I could imagine how hard it is. And especially like, as you describe yourself, like, hard for you to make the decisions. Like, but you made that decision. I did. That was a big fucking decision to make.

At 24, it was a big decision to me. Right. Yes. But you did it. I did. Yeah. And years, years. Years, years later, I remember his, like, he just, like, came to me. I was away on this job and I'm like, oh, what are you doing here? But I was like, okay, well, I'm just going to. Are you a witch? Yeah. People are coming. You kind of are. And I just sort of sat in, like, in a meditation. And I was kind of, all that came to me was just forgiveness. Yeah. And I just wanted to send that to him. Just like clear whatever, like, energetic channel we have between us. Like, we're good. Like, I know you loved me in your way. And. And. And. And I appreciate that.

I'm sorry for my part in any hurt. And then miraculously, a couple of days later, I get this call to do this Chevy Super Bowl commercial, like where we get to sort of be our soprano's characters again. And the exact amount of money I was paid was the amount of money that was lost in the doors. I mean, that's wild and kismet. But also I so related to that part of you that let that money go,

and again, something you should be proud of yourself, I think, because it's like you knew in that moment to choose your mental health, your peace over a battle. That's right. And I think that that's definitely one of the lessons that I've learned throughout my life and will continue to do. It's just I really feel like life just has a beautiful way of working itself out and when we can kind of loosen our grip on those things and really put, like you say, our peace and our mental health first things align for us the way they're meant to. Because I feel like in the book, we kind of see your journey of like girl to woman. It's like can't make decision, whatever it is.

But then quickly or fairly quickly, you learn how to do those things like on your own. And it's a lot of trial and tribulation, a lot of, you know, you know. That's what growing up is all about. That's all it is. That's right. Exactly. And I'm still figuring it out, right? I'm about to be 45 years old.

and I still feel like a kid and I still feel like when I'm an adult. You look amazing, by the way. You know, that skin is stunning. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Everything is. I appreciate you.

Thank you. But yeah, I mean, I just feel, I feel, I keep saying this, like, I feel in a weird way, like I'm just starting. Like, I feel like, I don't know. I'm like living my life in a way that I never thought I'd be able to. I think that's so great. Like, when you were describing that, you're like, fuck it. I will walk with a cane.

you know, or like whatever it is that makes you feel good. And I feel like that so is something that comes with time and figuring yourself out. And experience. And experience and confidence and all those things that come with life experience. And hearing you go through like, you're hiding this thing like a crazy person. Literally. Literally. To getting to the point of saying, fuck it.

Yeah. Here is my cane. And like, it's easier for me to walk this. way. So why would I make my life that much harder for something that isn't affecting you? It's affecting you. That's right. I don't have to apologize for it. And that was a big lesson for me. And like, I'm going to take the help I need. It has nothing to do with you. I just always, I always felt like I would be disappointing people because of it. I just did this job recently. And like, I auditioned for it and booked it, which always just feels better, right? Like that you earned this job. And I was zooming with the

director before I went to work. And I was like, hey, I don't know if you know this about me, because it was a self-tape, right? I'm like, I have MS. Like, do you know that? And he's like, I did know that. And I was like, do you, let me tell you how it affects me. I was like, I walk with a limp and this, this, this. And he was like, you're good. And I was like, for jobs for many years, and I appreciate this, because I was always met with the support. I would be like, we'll work around it. Like, I can walk a couple of steps and it won't look like I have anything. And it was always met with grace of being like, sure. But now I literally was like, I'm, that's just how I walk, though. Are we good with that? Because I'm not looking to work around this. I can't perform a body.

Because then I'm not going to be the best actress I want to be. And he was like, you're good. And I did all these episodes as me. And we never even talked about MS. And it just felt so beautiful and wonderful. And I had so much fun again, which I can't even remember the last time I had that You didn't have like a block because that felt like it was blocking you for a while. Because instead of focusing on this job or the script or whatever in your mind, it's how am I hiding this? That's right. Even auditions. I would like stress like when I could see like coming up to my name that I'm like two people away to be called into the room.

I would get up and I would start walking around the room to loosen up. So I didn't walk in stiff. So they wouldn't speculate anything. Yeah. Like even with Steph, I remember I was testing for this pilot. and I was in a room in front of all the executives. And when I, you know, walked out and I get the call later, like, you got the job. And I was so excited.

And then Steph called me after. And she's like, hey, so a few people asked me why you were limping when you walked out. I was like, oh, fuck. Like, those were just like little moments that happened that, you know, were terrifying to me. But again, it was just things that I had to kind of bury and push through until I was finally, you know, ready to share. Is that the only way that it was. affects you the... It's the main way. I think the most visible way. Like I, I'm always slightly

uncomfortable, but it's, I mean, I've had this 25 years. It's like kind of my normal. So I wouldn't say like I live in pain, but maybe if you felt what I feel in my body, you'd feel that way. But it's just, I have to accept it. How many women have reached out to you since you've shared this news and started your podcast with Christina Applegate? Yes. So many. You know, I did a signing the other day and this woman came up to the table. She had a cane and she just started crying and she's like, I am your age. I have two little boys. And I just, like, I saw you just walk in and I was like, she walks like me and she thinks like me.

And she said, thank you. And then I just started crying because I was like, I need that too. Like, thank you. Like, I need to see another woman that that is my age, that lives a life similar to me. that does walk like me. Like it is important for me as well. And so that podcast, while I think we're able to give a voice to an experience that a lot of people have,

I think it's also just very universal that we all go through shit. Yeah. We all have hard things that we're up against every single day. While the details look different, the ways that were affected, the emotions we feel are universal. And so to share so vulnerably and authentically,

I've just had so many beautiful exchanges with people that make me feel less alone. Well, isn't that how you and Christina met because somebody recommended she speak to you? Yes, Lance Bass, our mutual bestie, when she was diagnosed and she was just not ready to necessarily share it, but also like, how do I work with this?

Because she was in the middle of filming dead to me. He was like, you got to call Jamie. And so initially our conversations were like, okay, you know, this is what you should ask for. This is, you know, ask for your trailer closer. You know, do this before you work to loosen up your legs. Like I was just trying to give her like tips and tricks of like how to work with MS,

basically on a film set. And then next thing I know, she would just like call me late at night or early in the morning and just when she's scared or she's feeling things. And next thing you know, it's like two hours later and we're talking about Bravo and our children and peeing our pants and all these things. And I give her all the credit. She said to me one day, she's like, we should do a podcast. And I was like, what do you mean?

She's like, of this, how we're talking right now. Like, I'm ready. Are you ready to just, like, not give a shit and just put it all out there? And I think she really primed me to be ready to write this book. And how are you there for each other? Like, now she was just dealing with a, yeah. Yeah. She, like, she knows I'm in her corner. She knows how much I love her. And we also give each other the space. Like, we get some times where we need to kind of disconnect and we get also the times we can pick up when you really need someone. I'm flying to L.A. tomorrow and she's the first stop for me to go see when I get there. Because is it like, is it annoying if people are asking all the time? Like, how are you? How does that get like? I wouldn't say annoying, but it's kind of was one of my fears, right? Like I just like, I don't want people to like. Worry about you. I don't, yeah. I don't want to be, I don't want you to feel bad for me. Like, I want to feel like normal. Yeah. And, and my friends have always treated me as such. And I appreciate that. But for her, yeah, I think she loves to say that whenever we say,

how are you to each other, she knows that I'll be ready to receive how she really is. And she doesn't have to censor herself or feel like she has to take care of my feelings in that moment. And I think that we can be that for each other. Yeah, somebody just asked me yesterday. I got on a Zoom call and they were like, how are you? And I'm like, actually, I'm not good. I'm like, actually, I'm not good. I just threw up.

You know what I mean? Like, why are we saying good? It's a very loaded question. How are you? Exactly. Don't ask if you don't want to know. There are two things because we're fucking almost out of time. You talk to you forever.

But there are two things that I, first of all, I was telling my husband like, if there's something, we were eating dinner and I'm like listening to your book. And he's like, are you listening to something? I'm like, I can't stop. It was about your son, Bo and Aidem. I don't know if it's going to have kids. No, no, no, no, no. And then I went through your feet and I saw the the reel of him getting released from the hospital.

No, no, no, no, no, no. what it did to my body, hearing about the experience, having him go through that, seeing him come out, thank God, he's okay. But writing about that experience with your son getting, what do they call it? Adam. So it's like acute dissimulation. It's encephalitis, basically, which is a swelling of the brain. And it's basically he got a random virus at camp.

And instead of his body, I know, lakes and camp was like, we can't do it anymore. No, no, the tick. I don't know. I don't know. I know. I know. But instead of making antibodies to fight the virus, his body made dumb antibodies and attacked itself.

And it took you so long to fit. Not you. Like, you had to fight to get to the bottom of this. In and out of urging care. Like how long until. A week. A week.

A week of him with high fevers. The kid's not eating. Yeah. And just also mother's intuition. Yeah. Like finally I could listen to that voice inside. and be like, I remember when we were leaving the ER the day before we finally got admitted, they're sending us home again. And my feet literally didn't want to move. I was like, I know

in my soul that there is something seriously wrong that they are missing. But what it finally got us admitted was when he lost the ability to urinate. And that's when they were able to really understand what was going on. And that was the most painful and traumatic time of my life. but also a moment where I felt like more love than I've ever felt and support. And like I kind of learned who I am and what I've become in that moment. And like how strong you can be. Yeah. Like the way I was able to ask for help, the way I was able to use my voice and advocate.

And like even when with the doctors, right, like you're at their mercy. They're saving your child's life. But also my opinion mattered. Like I had a say in his care. had a say in what they were doing. And he is a miracle. I mean, I think in many ways, there were times that we all thought we were going to lose him. And I was in the middle of writing this when it happened. Oh, really? Yeah. Because this was not that, what, 2024? So this summer will be two years. I literally was thought, I was like, I was releasing messy,

like, sold my memoir. I was like just starting to write it. And then this comes. And that's just life. Like you don't know what's around the corner. I don't know what's still ahead for me. But what I do know is that I don't have to go through it alone, finally, you know? Yeah. Because you know how to ask for help? Well, thank God he's okay. Yes.

And that you fought for him in every way. Thank God. He's a fighter too. I mean, it hasn't been easy for him. His recovery has been really hard. How is he? You wrote about him changing a little bit after that. Is that still, do you?

Do you really feel like a different kid after this experience? Yeah. Really? And that's been hard for me as a mom. It has, you know, and I'm trying to give myself as much grace as I can through that because, you know, it's like you have this version of your kid for so long for 10 years. Like, I know who Bo is. I know him.

And then anyone would be changed from the experience that he had. But, you know, it's also due to the brain swelling. And, you know, it's considered a traumatic brain injury, what he went through. And when he came out of it, he was in a severe state of psychosis for a while. And then he was almost like, we like would joke. He was like Buddy the elf. Like everything was beautiful and everything was great and you're amazing. And while that's so sweet, it's a lot. It's a lot. It's like, and it was a lot for him to like hold in his little body. And he got bullied so much at school for it. And it was really devastating. But he's also my hero because, I put him in talk therapy immediately. I found this amazing woman. And she has really, I give her all the credit. She has helped us as a family, like, remind Bo of, like, who he is.

And her main thing that she says that she realizes kids need the most is self-compassion. Because when you can have self-compassion, everything else, like, you can grow from there of, like, all of the things, all the other attributes that you hope somebody has, like, confidence, things like that. So all she really just teaches Bo is to just have grace for himself all the time. Yeah. And I think that's allowed himself to advocate for himself and find his footing in middle school. Because he gets it. He knows exactly what happened. You saying that he texted you, but during being sick before figuring it out,

Mom, I want to take all your pain away. Yeah. I mean, he's always been sweet. But that was signs to me all, like, looking back that there was like something. But does he fully understand your condition? Like not full, but he, so even then he did. Yes. Wow.

Yes. He's, he is, he is my guy. Like, he's like, I don't be. Hashtag boy moms. Hashtag boy moms. Has tag two boys. I know. I was like, everyone cool has two boys.

Okay. It's true. We'll take it. It's a thing with boy mom. I'm not going to lie. I definitely had like a little bit of like a sadness when I found out I was having another boy. And now I cannot obviously imagine it any other way.

Yeah. They're so close. They're like best friends. It's the best. and they love their mom. Right. We are their queen. Right.

Like, I think God knew what he was doing. A girl would have probably fucking crush me. Like, let's be honest. She would have brought me back to like, she would have brought me steps back. I need to be like pumped up. But Bo, Bo, I think the where the place in my life where I was worried the most about MS affecting me was motherhood. Like, I felt the most insecure that like I wasn't a good enough mom. Like, I couldn't be as physical with them.

I couldn't do the things that I would want it to do. like, you know, I can't play in the mother's son kickball game with him and like all these things that his friends do with their moms. Don't worry. I'm not playing in the kickball thing. That makes me feel a little better. That makes me feel a little better. But he, Bo is really good.

They need your love. Exactly. And Bo tells me all the time, like, you're the best mom. Like, you're my inspiration. Yeah. But then I have my little Jack who like tells me, he's like, and you walk like an old lady. And I'm like, you know, I love both of them. They both bring, they both bring the real, but they both make me feel like I'm.

the exact mom that they need. What shocked me so much is because I tell people, like, I had like gut issues before I got pregnant and then I got pregnant, they went away. So when people have gut issues, I'm like, get pregnant. But when you said your MS symptoms were way later pregnant, I was so shocked. I'm like, is everything hormonal? Like, you saying that you felt so much better. And then the minute you got your period back, the symptoms came back. They all went to shit. How do they, like, how do, like, how do, like, how do, like, how do people like? It's a miracle. Explain it. Like, what the hell? I don't know. If I could, if I didn't have to sleep train again, I'd have 10 babies. I swear to God. I have, I loved being pregnant. I'm one of those people that likes me. Well, you look gorgeous. I saw your photos. I was like, no, you literally looked like you had a fake belly. Like you were, you did. I loved it. I loved being pregnant. I mean, the MS relief, but also it was a time where like my body was doing when I wanted it to do. It was doing something good for me. It was working hard.

That's right. It was working so hard, tripling the blood in your body, doing whatever the fuck else. It does. And your symptoms work. Quiet it down. How did that? I think that, I mean, I know that a lot of people within MS. Reachers are trying to, like, sort of figure that out.

But it is. It's the hormonal surge. Right. It's just, yeah. Damn. I know. I have a lot of faith in modern medicine. Like, I don't know if I'll ever not have this.

But I, there's just a part of me that knows that it's, it's, there's. there are things on the horizon, I think that will make people's lives a lot easier. Well, we can hope. Yes. And another thing that really moved me was you finding out that James Gendelfini donated to MS without you, how did you find this out?

I think, I can't even remember. It might have been either his ex-wife or maybe a manager that was like, you know, Jim, he never needed credit. And that was one of the beautiful things about him, right? That's so beautiful. He could silently doing it knowing, like, that's helping Jamie, and he didn't need the accolade. or the attention of like, look at me doing something nice.

That's who Jim was. That must have been such a moving moment to find that out. But not surprising. It was like when I heard that, I was like, of course. Did you find that out after he passed away? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah.

And you just did a reading with Teresa Caputo. I did. Who did you talk to? Well, she came on a podcast that I had with my friend Rob, who played my brother and Sopranos. And she actually talked to me most, well, I did a reading with her years ago after my brother died. Right. I'm so sorry about that too.

Thank you. But you know it was wild. I don't know if I talked about this in the book. When we finished the reading, she pulled me aside and she was like, I was told not to say this on camera. But I kept feeling like my legs couldn't move. And this is when I was still private about MS. And I wasn't physically showing like any kind of limp or anything. Like nobody was picking up on anything. And I was like, uh-huh. And she's like, your brother was giving me like, there was like, something wrong with your legs, something wrong with your legs. And I just kept being like, uh-huh. And she's like, you're going to be okay. All he wants you to know is it's going to be okay. I know. And she said like other wild shit. Like she says shit to my brother's like fiancee at the time that was like no one could have known. And to my

mother, she gave the beautiful gift of like you did the right thing. Because as a family, we had to decide to take him off life support, which is just, you know, you always wonder if it was the right or wrong thing to do. So she's magical human. She gives people a lot of peace. Wait, that's crazy. And when so she came on Robin Ice podcast, she talked about Bo because Bo speaks of a near-death experience. He had no influence before, like other than angels in the outfield, I think is the only thing that he ever, like, watched with angels. Like, I always felt like my, I want my kids to figure out their relationship with God and their own, and I'll support it. And so I never really talked to him much about that. and when he came out of his experience,

he was like, oh, like, I crossed over the other side. I met God. I saw Mima. I saw Adam. He said that. Everybody's young there. And so when I did this reading with Teresa, she confirmed, like, I didn't tell her what happened.

And she told me what he said happened. Wild. I can't deal with that. I know. But you can because you're very spiritual and you can. You can. Yes. But like when everything you want to believe is true is kind of in front of your

face and your kid is saying it to you. It's confronting. I've definitely had to do some deep breaths and like work and like, wait, is that real? Is it, you know, it's, it's hard to know. But I'm going to continue on. It makes me feel better going through life thinking that way, you know? Another thing that I can't let you go without talking about is your husband Cutter. Yes. Because you met him when he was so young. You were both young, but he was 22. And you let him in on, on your secret or at the time. Yeah, it was still. And there was a moment that I remember I was, I was listening to this part of the book. I was almost, you know, it was my bedtime almost. I was like, I need to remember to talk to her about this because the moment where he told you

to just like wear a fucking diaper. And I was like this 22 year old, like guys at 20, guys at 22. Like, are you kidding me? Like as single girls now are dating guys in their 30s that are, you know, pathetic losers. that can't deal with shit. But he's 22 years old, a baseball, a hunky baseball player, dealing with this kind of thing,

telling you to fucking put on depends. I know. I know. I mean, at the time, I was like, this is so embarrassing. Like, I cannot believe that this is what happening.

But that's a perfect example of who Cutter is. And he's just, he's wired to take care of you. He's wise. He's mature. He's loving. Like,

he literally, was looking at me being like, why aren't you just wearing these to make your life easier? You're running off the stage in between every scene, like worry that you peed your pants or if you peed your pants. Like, what are you doing? Make your life easier. And he is so instrumental and such a huge part of my acceptance journey. And I, like, we were joking about it last night with some friends where like, when I first met him, they were like, Jamie, what are you doing? And I. like a 22-year-old minor league baseball player. You thought you were just going to have fun.

I thought it was just going to have fun. It was 30. And yeah, little did I know here we are. 14 years later, he's literally the greatest in the world. I can't imagine I don't want to know my life without him. And one last question is, you know, this book, like we said, we see your younger self and we see everything that you know now and how different that is. So what advice would you give young little Jamie?

Oh, I just, I wanted to. to feel really validated in her experience and seen. I want her to know that all of this pain and struggle is going to shape her and teach her and make her grow and that I'm proud of her and that it gets better. And she has a lot to look forward to. I love that. And I love so much that you manifested playing somebody with MS. And you got the Grace Anatomy. Yeah. And you got the Grace Anatomy. Yeah. See, you're a witch. I am. I'm a little witchy.

I love it. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Not Skinny but Not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny but Not Fat. Subscribe to the podcast. We don't miss any episodes.

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