Not Skinny But Not Fat - Jesse Lally: Setting the Record Straight

Episode Date: May 27, 2025

The Valley’s Jesse Lally is here to clear up the rumors and tell his side of the story. We discuss getting on the Valley, co-parenting with Michelle, thoughts on her boyfriend Aaron, filming in Santa Barbara, calling her a wh*re, if he was controlling when she gave birth to their daughter Isabella and more!!This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.House Marg Summer is here. Time to stock up! Go to www.astraltequila.com to find Astral near you - and don’t forget the limes! Please Enjoy Responsibly. ASTRAL Tequila. 40% Alcohol per Volume. Diageo, New York, NY.Use the code “AMANDA” on Rhoback.com for a generous 20% off your first order through the end of this week.Find Simply Pop and any of its five juicy flavors by visiting us online at cokeurl.com/simplyPOP.If you’re into glamour and romance, things are heating up on Hulu.Catch new seasons of Project Runway and Bachelor in Paradise this summer. And coming soon, catch the all-new reality series Love Thy Nader, starring the Nader sisters. Plus, don’t miss an all-new season of Love Island UK streaming only on Hulu. There’s so much great reality on Hulu it’s almost...too real. Next time you need your reality TV, go to Hulu. Hulu gets real.Visit CleanSimpleEats.com and use code NOTSKINNY20 at checkout for 20% off your FIRST order.When it comes to pregnancy and postpartum support, you want products backed by research and transparency. Mom-founded Ritual puts in the work and shows you the proof. Get 25% off your first month for a limited time at ritual.com/NOTSKINNY.Find your new spring uniform at Jenni Kayne. And our listeners get 15% off your first order when you use code NOTSKINNY15 at checkout at jennikayne.com. Let getting dressed be one less thing to worry about.Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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That's spelled A-S-T-R-A-L-T-E-K-E-K-U-I-L-A.com to find a stroll near you. Don't forget the limes, you guys, and please enjoy responsibly. Astral tequila, 40% alcohol per volume, Diageo, New York, New York. The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to the Not Skinny Bonafat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch, and I still can't believe. that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars on my very own podcast

where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. Hey, guys. I don't know. I think the return of my period after 10, 11 months, has just thrown me off because, I was raging before I got it. And then I forgot how it is.

It's like you have that week before your period where you're psycho and your achy and you're gross. Then you have the week of your period that you're psycho aching and gross. And then you have the week after your period that your psycho aching grows. And then you have like one week where you're maybe not one of those things. So I'm living it. I'm breathing it. But at the same time I do, I know it's so annoying to put things into perspective.

but when you do complain about your period and there are people who are like going through perimenopause or menopause or whatever, they're like, I wish I got my period and you're like, I get it, I get it because hormones fucking suck when they change so I get it. So I'm not going to complain. Also, I did want to get my period back because it felt like a long time and it did feel like something is in balance. Like if I'm not getting my period, even though it's completely normal, especially if you're breastfeeding, it did feel like, wait, my body's like out of wax still. Like, it needs to get back in line. So, so anyway, that's on that. But the reason why I say that is, it's part of me recording this intro is just because I literally, I was going

to talk to you guys about, like, what I should do for my birthday because we're going away next week, this week. Actually, we're going away today. For listening on Tuesday, we're going away today till Friday. And then my birthday is on Saturday. So I was like, oh, I don't know. Like, should I even do anything? Should I even celebrate with friends? like, should I, then I was thinking, like, maybe I should, like, be a grown-up and just, like, do something for me, like, take myself out for my birthday. Like, I was like, I don't like anything. I don't like facials.

I don't like massages. Like, I just don't like anything. Should I buy myself something? What do I want? Like, I don't know. And then that really, like, makes you think about what you want and, like, if you know yourself and what? Who are you, Amanda?

So then I'm spinning about that. And then it's so funny because I was trying to talk to. your own about, and then you ask why I call him husband. It's because when I say your own, it just feels weird to me. And I tried to talk to him about what I should do for my birthday. And then he was like getting weird. And then I was like, are you playing me a huge surprise? And he started laughing. And he was like, no, like, stop. Don't expect that. Like, you crazy. And then I was like kind of suss. I was like, he just won't discuss it with me. So like, that is weird. And then right now I was like asking him about our flight

details and he was like, wait, I don't see like where it is. So I like went into his email and then boom, I saw like what he's planning for me. And that sucks. Like I really didn't want to see that and I'm blaming him for it because I'm like, why are you an idiot? You couldn't just fucking tell me our flight fucking info. Like I had to go and look for it. So then I saw it got ruined for me. So I'm upset about it and might have been on the verge of tears about it. And that might be dramatic. But it's like, oh, like somebody was going to do something for you and you saw it because you you know, need to

check everything. Like he couldn't double check because or think like wait, let me just answer her about this so she doesn't go look and like find the thing. Anyway, it'll still be great but I saw what I saw and you can't take it back. You know, and I feel like that's always me. I always find out about it and I always know about it

which is like annoying. Speaking about gifts, I did post Instagram the gift he got me for Mother's Day, which was a troche. And I'm so glad so many of you agreed with me because some people try to make me feel bad, like, oh, he tried. I was like, did he try or did he get a targeted Facebook ad that he clicked on and entered the boys' names and checked out, you know, which probably is what happened because I got a bunch of messages from you guys that got the same exact gift, which is so funny. But it's just like, I really rather get nothing or just get flowers or just

like say happy Mother's Day or just like just the regular stuff also I'm really not big on the Hallmark holidays like I know we celebrate them the Valentine's Day the Mother's Day the Father's Day which we won't celebrate this year. I'm just kidding no we won't actually it's just like to me it's not that meaningful like my birthday is more meaningful to me like those kinds of days but obviously if you're going to get me something ridiculous like you're gonna get called out on it okay you're gonna you're gonna anyway before we get into this week's episode. I am so obsessed right now with the secret lives of Mormon wives. Like I am just, wow, like what a good reality show fucking killing it. The girls are fucking crazy. The drama is insane.

Like the teams are teeming. The hair is herring. And I'm just, it's just so good. And by the way, a lot of you are thinking I'm slow on it. I am. You would die actually. And here's the T. I got the screeners fucking months in advance. Okay. I could have seen this fucking three months ago probably. And guess who who waits to watch it after you already did me. First of all, I have this thing where, like, I don't like watching screeners that far in advance. Like, I want to be part of the movement. Like, I want to be in the moment with everyone.

Like, I don't know if it's FOMO. It's like the opposite of FOMO. It's like getting to enjoy something before everybody else does and I, like, don't want to. It's like weird. I'm so weird. Do I need therapy. Anyway, let's shoot, shoot right in.

Shoot right into today's episode, which is with the bravo i don't want to say villain he's not a villain to me he does have villainous moments that he does want to have the opportunity to explain and you know i am the place for some toxy bravo man just kidding am i no jesse lally is here now i've wanted to talk to jesse since the show came out i literally found him so intriguing from day one like he's an intriguing guy. And then that was before, you know, it turned into this divorce war. He said she said. He's really painted out to be this, you know, awful guy. And he doesn't help himself in a lot of these scenes and episodes on the Valley where he calls her a horror and Michelle, that is. And

he does have this like, moh, uh, moment. But I do see something in him. I did see something in him all along. I'm like, you could vibe. Like, let's let's get, let's get to the root of this. You need to, You have some answers to give us about, you know, the things that Michelle is saying that you said and did. Plus, the things that we saw you say and do. And he is here today. So enjoy my episode with Jesse Lally. Can't wait to hear what you think. Jesse Lally's here.

I'm excited. I'm excited, too. It's been a long time. It's been a long time. So we were talking about this before we started that we talked about you coming on. Even before that, I will tell you that I don't know if it was something Jacks posted when him and I reconnected. You started following me when I had like 500 followers.

So like you see who follows you. And then you unfollowed me. And then you started following me again. This is how rumors start. That's a lie. This is, I feel like I'm on the valley. I feel like I'm in the valley. It's fake news.

I've been following you for a very long time. So I would notice when you follow me. I'm going to follow you right after this pod. I think you follow me, don't you? I hope so. That would be so fucked up if you don't follow me. Why do you take it this seriously? Now I take it seriously.

You take Instagram seriously. No, I take not skinny, but off that seriously, obviously. But I really think it's fake news, and I feel like Justin Bieber when, like, he accidentally unfollowed Haley, and then he said it was a glitch and nobody believed him. That's me right now. Oh, perfect. Yeah, glitchy. I like that.

I'm Justin Bieber. Okay. But I will follow you right off of this pod, and we've talked about you coming on the pod. We have. And here you are. Even before the seasons came out, I was like, this time, we're going to make it happen. Even when I didn't know what the fuck you were going to do this season. Okay.

I was like, I didn't know what we're going to see this season. Yeah. And I said I wanted to do it live in New York. Because I don't come back here that much since I moved to L.A., so I didn't want to do it over Zoom. And here we are. Live in New York. Canal Street hasn't changed at all. Somebody just offered me a Prado purse.

What did you say? I was like, no, I'm okay. Have you ever bought fake stuff? I have not, no. Really? Never, ever. Uh-huh. Yeah, never ever. And like non-branded stuff, like Gap Chino's.

No, I don't buy a lot. Like, I don't, I'm not a shopper. I'm like a traveler and a wine drinker. I don't spend money on, you know, like custom pants and a Zara sweater. I mean, custom pants, though. I know, but I have to. Like, suits don't fit me off the rack. Oh.

Hockey player legs, you know, so. What are hockey player legs? Like, thick? These, yeah. So did you play hockey? I did, yeah. Oh. My whole life.

So that's how you get those legs? That's, yeah. If anyone's wondering. If anyone's wondering, yeah. And you love the crop with the little loafer. Signature move. Sockless, yeah. Always sockless?

It's, I'm in a sockless phase right now. But I've, I have, yeah, I have been a sock guy for, you know, my earlier career. So let's talk about it because you live. to New York, you said. Yeah. For a while. I moved here in early 2002, and I moved to L.A. late 2006. So it was like four and a half years here in New York. Was that post college? It was post college. I actually was working in Boston at New York Life Insurance. And my best friend that I grew up with was a model here in New York. And he's like, come to New York and try modeling. And I transferred from the Boston office to the New York office and had my long hair. And I'd go to the office in a suit

with a ponytail and let it down and go on castings when you used to carry a book around and go from casting and casting. So did you get jobs? I did a little bit and then I did that job with Anna Nicole Smith and the rest was history after that. Wait, why was the rest history? So you had a thing with Anna Cole Smith. You said this on another podcast, right?

Yeah, yeah. Somebody finally brought it up after season one. And yeah, I did that job. It was a pretty big job. I had a huge billboard in Times Square that was really. cool for a 23-year-old and then I got back from Miami shooting that and I was like I really want to get into acting so I started studying will you messper studio here in New York amy shumer was in my class really thank you guys are friends did you vibe with her yeah yeah we were in class for two years

and remain friends for a while after that and yeah and then I just got an opportunity to move to LA and what do you mean an opportunity was it a job thing like it was I got a couple agents that were interested in meeting with me. So I went to L.A., met with them, and then decided to move two weeks before the 0-607 writer strikes. So business kind of halted when I got out there, but I still loved it out there. Is there anyone in L.A. who didn't try to be an actor model ever? I'm sure there are a few. Is there anyone in your show that hasn't? I don't think Jason ever had. Jason, he went to Boston College, and I forget where he went to law school. But yeah, I don't think, I know Luke certainly did not.

Right. Yeah. And he was the one that the only one that got out to fix that van that was breaking down. Yeah. I got out. I just don't. I just don't know even how to open the hood of a car. No.

What is? I mean. Yeah. So. Yeah. I'm not. I hired like a handyman to hang photos in my house. Even photos, Jesse?

I mean, I can do it, but it's like. Can you drill? I have a drill. Okay. Yeah, I cannot drill. But I got a drill for Christmas last year from my parents. That was nice. Oh, was that maybe a hint from them to start doing shit around the house?

Start drilling. I don't even know how to find a stud, so, you know. Stud, if it's called that. Yeah. Well, speaking of studs, I can't believe I'm following up Josh Dumel. I know. That's insane. I know.

It's a good looking guy. He really is. You know how old he is? No, I don't. 52 or 3. Really? I just turned 45. You look great, too.

Thank you. that when you walked in? Thank you. How does it feel? Does the body feel 45, 25, 75? The body feels 65. Yeah, it's like, you know, I blew out. I get a torn labrum now.

So, you know, it's like everything. You go to physical therapy for this and then your hip goes out. Really? And it's like from doing stuff like, I think I tore my labor on my right shoulder, taking Isabella out of the back seat when she was in like a car seat. She's so sweet. I loved seeing her on this last episode when, And she, like, called Michelle, and she was like, well, this was episode six.

And she was like, get me my backpack, was it? She wanted something for her shoe, something. Yeah, yeah. And she has such a toad. I am obsessed. And she looks like you, I think. It's straight down the middle. Really?

They 100% looks like me. 100% looks like Michelle. There's nobody that's like, oh, I can see both of you. Oh. Yeah. Maybe you're like eyelashes. She has like thick. She has my eyelashes.

Yeah, she has your eyelashes. like big curly ones. Right. And, yeah, we fight about the nose and the lips a little bit. I think, I think she looks like me and she's definitely getting a little sassy like me. I mean, Michelle has some sass too. Yeah. Well, she's not, you know.

I mean, I joke that like, Isabella's turning into me. And I'm sure Michelle loves that because she is, she's become so smart and so quick. How old is she? She just turned five a couple years ago. I mean, my son is going to turn five. And, like, I was like, whoa, Noah's not. But, you know, I had a moment while I was like, damn, Isabella's advanced, you know. But girls have that, though.

Like, I feel like it's a girl thing. Yeah. And it's like a funny story. So my girlfriend has a daughter that's a couple years younger. We go to her house and Isabella is like, I want to get a lollipop. And the girlfriend says, oh, you know, she had two lollipops today. And they go into the pantry and they get lollipops. And Isabella's like, you didn't say she couldn't have a lollipop.

You said she had two lollipops today. And I'm like, that is me. That is, like, pushing buttons. And, like, finding the loopholes. Yeah. Yeah. Negotiating. Like, going to be a lawyer.

Yeah. Wow. So good luck, Michelle. And you? Yeah, well. Or you feel like you're equipped? You feel like you're equipped? No, no, I'm 100% in trouble.

Like, she's going to end up dating, like, somebody like me, God forbid. And then... God forbid. That's how you see it. I mean, she'll figure it out. She's a smart girl. I'm sure she will. And sometimes girls do the opposite.

by the way. She might go for like a nerdy, like, where, you know, she's the, she runs the show. They don't answer her back. So I'm not worried about her. But I'm interested in you saying, God forbid, do you, wait, and you said your, your girlfriend. This girlfriend now is not the same girlfriend that we're talking about on the show or is it? Same. Yeah. Oh, so you. We've been together, yeah, like over a year. So you got back together? We, there was sort of like a, we've always been together. But like, you know, the show is very difficult on some. who's not part of the world and I think I think we've navigated it really well but it's difficult it's like you know you talk about these things while they're happening in real time and then we watched them

all because we did the reunion so so early and then now we're watching them you know in real time with everybody else so you're like living these things three different times yeah same thing with you know last season it's like we started dating and season one hadn't even premiered yet and then here we were watching it together and she's like oh I've never noticed that about you but now I see it and it's it's just so do you watch together we do yeah yeah did she give you a hard time seeing some of the stuff I mean I give myself a hard time because you watch it and you're like god that was a year ago like I couldn't even imagine myself doing some of these things a year later what changed that today you wouldn't call Michelle a horror consideration something I've been

working on, like my 2025, you know, list of things that I wanted to work on is taking that pause, considering the repercussions on my daughter, on my relationship, on my friendships. And, you know, I've really tried to work towards, like, reconciling with friends that I might have, you know, had issues with and stuff like that. So I think consideration was, was a big factor in looking back at 2024, 2023. Calling Michelle a whore, do you think that it's hard for me to say that word, do you know? Yeah.

It's a hard word to say. And I can say, and I can say words, but do you think it's all stemming from at the end of the day, you believing that she cheated, her admitting to cheating just with a kiss, right? Right. Hearing from Kristen on season one, that whole drama that she had a boyfriend for a year or something

while you were together. At the end of the day, do you think that's, you maybe haven't dealt with all those feelings? And it's coming out as like this anger, still accusing her of things. Like, did you get closure on that? Like, here we're having a conversation. You cheated on me in this way. She's like, how do you, how do we get closure for you guys where, like, you can both move on and not have this anger? You know, I think that's one of those things like lying, cheating whore.

it's like one of those things that kind of rolls out. You know, I, I, it's, it's like that aggressive East Coast thing. And, you know, I, I've said over and over again, Michelle has this way of getting under my skin. She triggers you. Oh, big time. And, you know, cheating. There are like certain words that are triggers for me, loser, cheater, because I don't believe in cheating. I think cheating is a quitter mentality.

I think it's a victim mentality. Like, you. give up on your relationship when you cheat. You know what I mean? You don't realize like, oh, what is my part in what's happened to the relationship? What's his or her part in the relationship? And how can we each work to get to the middle? A cheater is just a quitter.

They're like, you know what? I'm not even going to work on it. I'm just going to go cheat. If she broke up with you, would that be better than cheating? Yeah. Your ego would handle that better. 100%. Yeah.

And Michelle on that rooftop said to me, she was like, there is no way all those times. you were going out for lunch is you didn't you didn't cross the line or cheat and the second she said that i was like you're the only lying cheating horn and it was just a trigger thing it's a it's like a weak mindset thing but i was triggered and i said it and i regret it it was so dumb the thing is like i feel like you could get the same point across without saying that you know like you could say you know there's a saying in hebrew that's like it says on the head of the thief the hat burns which means if she's saying that

that, that means maybe she was doing that, which is what you felt in that moment. So I'm saying you could have said maybe that's what you were doing, but I've never done that. Boom, you put her, you said what you wanted to say. You know what I mean? Yeah. I feel like those words even take away from the point you're making. Right. And you'll see in the next episode, I did some work with Scott, my coach. And one of the things he says is, you know, she put me in this position to now be the devil and to be in defensive mode.

And, you know, instead of being triggered and going into the devil mode, like you said, be like, look, don't project onto me. You did this. I accept it. You're like giving her what she thinks she's going to get in more.

You're like, you wanted the Jesse being a dick show. Here it is. Here it is. I'm the dick. 100%. But why did you lean in? Because you're a smart guy. You know you're on the Valley.

You care about what people think. Like, why are you leaning into the, Like, did that cross your mind? Wait, I'm going to look like a dick on TV. Like, maybe I shouldn't say that. Or were you really not thinking of the cameras, the repercussions? I never think about the cameras, the repercussions. I am, like, wildly authentic.

And I just never wanted to, you know, we had a pre-production meeting at the beginning of the season. And showrunner was like, look, you know, what happened on Vanderpump was people started reading too much. And they were acting for what the audience wanted on, you know, Reddit and all these things. And I was like, look, you don't have to worry about that with me. Like, maybe some of the girls, I know Michelle was very intensely obsessed with the comments and how she was portrayed towards the end of season one. And I was like, I don't read anything. Like, I, the last time I was on Reddit was two days before season one premiere. And I don't read the comments on Instagram. And, and, but, you know, this season, it's like you start to

read things and it makes you laugh more than it breaks your heart. But, I don't ever think about, I just kind of like live the way that I live, you know, I should probably start thinking about a little. Maybe you should start. Yeah. I should do a checklist of like, don't say whore, don't say hooker, don't, yeah. We'll be right back after the break. Okay, listeners, this is not a drill. Roeback just launched a brand new product and brought back two of our absolute faves and you need them in your summer wardrobe. First up, the era high-rise shorts. These just dropped and they are everything. They're high-rise.

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how much I love Hulu. All of my favorite shows are on Hulu. Hulu is the place to go to for your reality TV. Hulu gets real. You love reality TV, right? You know, every star, every scandal, every tear and every triumph, you know who else knows reality? Hulu, that's who. They've been leaning into the reality world and I'm obsessed, right? The Kardashians, the secret lives of Mormon wives, got to get out, Vanderpum Villa, and more. Hulu has reality TV covered. If you're into glamour and romance. Things are heating up on Hulu. Catch new seasons of Project Runway and Bachelor in Paradise this summer. Yes, it's back. And coming soon, catch the all new reality series, Love Thy Nader, starring the Nader Sisters obsessed. Plus, don't miss an all new season

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Join me every Thursday for a new episode. And we're back. Okay, so the bottom line is she admits to cheating with a kiss one time. Right. Do you still to this day think it was more? Yeah, and she admitted to that before we started filming. A friend of ours did kind of an intervention where we went in with five, things we wanted to clear up before we started filming and you know she the first thing for her was

you cannot say that I was cheating with Aaron her boyfriend and my friend looked at her and was like but you did cheat and she got like pink-faced and she was like yeah I did I started seeing this guy but we only kissed and we all said like that's the appetizer without the entree like you don't date somebody and just kiss once you know so what what it is doesn't matter anymore you know we're a year and a, I mean, a year plus past that. Yeah. But it wasn't Aaron. You believe that at this point.

Yeah. But the thing about Aaron that really bothered me, you'll see it play out in season two, especially towards the end, was, you know, Aaron admits to me that they used to meet up and he would ask advice on girls he was dating and Michelle would ask advice about me. And that for a married woman with a newborn is, like, would you go to Central Park and ask for advice on your marriage to a single 35-year-old guy? It's inappropriate. And you didn't know about these things.

I didn't know. But how, like, what was your marriage like before the show? Were you, you worked together? We worked together, yeah. Did she know your schedule? You knew her schedule. So was she lying about where she was or was she not telling you or? No, I mean, I don't really question somebody's loyalty.

And, you know, I was never like, oh, where are you going tonight with the girls? So if, you know, she admitted that she was going out with girlfriend of hers and they met these two guys and they started dating. they each started dating these friends while she was married to you while she was married and so she admitted to that and then the errand thing it was like you know when we had isabella she would go on these walks every single morning it was like her thing and then as isabel got a little older i would stay home with isabella and she would go hiking and i would ask her if i could go and she's like why i'm just going to listen to music and you know those little hints started to add up over time and you know then it comes out that she was going and meeting up with this guy

and they were just friends, but they would have these inappropriate conversations. And, but now looking back, it's like, Isabelle lives with him now, you know, half of the time. And he's in,

with Aaron and Michelle, yeah. And he's a nice guy. I think what happened was inappropriate. I think I take full accountability on the fact that, you know, I didn't abandon Michelle the way she kind of portrays it. But I,

you know, it was unfortunate we had the baby during COVID. and, you know, there was no help for her. And, like, she admitted she was a stay-at-home mom and I went back to work. And I wasn't doing, it wasn't going out and partying and doing all these things like she said. Yeah, I know it was hard for her and, you know. You feel like you should have been maybe more supportive, like postpartum for her? You know, it's hard.

It's like, I talk to my mom and she's like, I don't know what this girl's talking about. And she's like, I have, you know, 12,000 photos of you the first five months just at home with the baby. And the first three or four months were during lockdown. So it's like, you know, there was, it probably wasn't until September or so that I went back to work. So this idea that I like left her, you know, with the newborn at home just isn't true. Well, she said other things too. She says in this one of these last episodes when she's screaming, she's so mad at you. She screams to the whole house about different things that you've done.

She says he never called me pretty, never wanted to hug me, never wanted to kiss me. Yeah. is that true she says a lot and it's interesting because i have talked to other women that i've dated and and you know even my my current relationship she says like i was never affectionate and none of them can believe that because i am a very affectionate person and i used to say to michel well you know if you like give to receive right and that's a shitty narcissistic egotistical thing to say but like you know we had this weird dynamic that we would fight about work and then go home and try to watch, you know, Netflix together and we still had these like conversations about deals that

we were doing together. So there was that element of our relationship that's different than most. And yeah, I mean, I, I wasn't wildly affectionate with Michelle. Why? What do you think happened there? You think resentment from work stuff? No, I think it's just a, it's a fine balance of being able to cut that off when you get home and you make dinner together. And, and, you know, and she wasn't that with, she, when people say she's, she's cold, I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't think she's cold. She's reserved and she wasn't affectionate with me at all. Like she never came up behind me and gave me a hug.

And you even see in the Big Bear episode of season one when she came up and gave me the hug from behind. And I was like, ooh, they made me a little tingly. She never did that ever, ever, ever. So she didn't really do it. And I sort of mirrored what she was giving me. You know what I mean? And she didn't deserve it.

And I wish I could have been a little bit overly affectionate with her, but I mirrored her energy. Take us to, like, moments when the relationship was good at the beginning. Yeah. Because she, I feel like she's in a state the last two seasons that we've seen her. It's hard for her to remember that. And she even says, she calls it like the longest one-night stand of her life. Does that offend you?

It does, yeah, because she says something like that. But yet we travel the world together. I proposed to her. We had a baby together. Like, that's not a one-night stand. That's a deflection from, you know, or sort of a, you know, using her pain to make to make something better I guess to say I was just like a long one night stand it just like she's also going to have to explain that to her daughter because then it's like

did you not want to marry him did you not want to have a child with him if he was just a long one night stand you know what I mean and at the very beginning it was you know she was in her god mid 20s and we used to you know I remember one day we went to the Roosevelt Hotel the hanged by the pool and we had I don't know six bottles of rosé and it was like one of those like a mate like that's how we used to be and then after she had the baby she just lost her taste for red wine like you know you've had you've had babies like yeah it's it just changes like wine started to taste bitter and then she like it was just it was a weird dynamic because we used to have this going out on dates drinking wine going to nice restaurants and we kind of lost that and then during COVID

But it was like, we didn't have a grandma, grandpa to watch Isabella while we went on date night. Both of your parents are not in California? They're in Boston. Okay. And her parents? Her mom who's recently passed was down in Mexico and her brother and sister lived right above the border in San Diego. And getting like nannies and babysitters during COVID was like crazy. And you wouldn't want to let in anybody.

Right. Yeah. That is hard. Yeah. So we didn't have, I mean, four or five months, we didn't go on a single date after. But I have to say like for like season one, even. though season two is crazy what's happening between you two. Yeah. Season one when you were still living together was almost harder to watch because

you're living together and you feel these like feelings of hate. Like at least that's, it felt to me like she just was, you know, and I wonder why she was boiling over with rage towards you. Do you know? It was hard to watch back because like, you know, I watched that scene with her and Brittany and Big Bear where she was like, I just don't love them anymore. But yet, you know, she did try to leave in 2022 around the same time that I'd heard that she'd met Aaron. And we decided to stay together.

I begged and pleaded. Why did you beg and plead for Isabella? No, I just, I never thought divorce. Like, I feel like once you're a family, you can figure out how to sort of make things work or some, there's give and take. And there's changes that can be made on both sides. Like I said, you accept what you've brought to the table, except what the other person has and try to meet somewhere in the middle.

And I was doing the work to do that. And, you know, then all of a sudden March, right before we started filming, we got a new house together. And I thought, all right, well, you know, now it's been six months since we talked about separating the first time. Things should be, you know, okay if we're getting a house. Is this the West Hollywood house that we see on the? the show? Yeah. So, and then it just, it just wasn't. And then when I found out the cheating stuff and,

you know, again, it's like the emotional component with Aaron, like if she's having conversations about her marriage and he's having conversations about women that he's dating, now she's comparing the two of us. Like, oh, if I was with a guy like that, would I be better off than I am with Jesse? Yeah. And that's sort of the emotional component of it that I thought was completely inappropriate. And I think that's honestly what happened. how hurt were you by all this pretty pretty catastrophic i mean i you know we we had had a conversation when we separated in mid-october i knew what that storyline of season one was is us working on our marriage and i was like we cannot tell anybody we have to keep it a secret so from october

to january first we would go out we you know she was going on dates with her boyfriend wearing her wedding ring and her engagement ring because we didn't want people to know. And it was, it was like, you know, looking back on it, I'm like, we could probably have told the network and told our friends and moved on. But it was again, it was like, if I keep her in the house, can I make it work? And I tried for weeks and weeks and weeks. And then about three weeks after we separated, she told me that she was seeing somebody, sat me down in our office. And she, she said she was seeing somebody. And from that point on, it was like, you know, it was, it was bad. And how soon after that did you start dating your girlfriend?

We started dating in February. So it was about, what, the six, five, six months after. Do we not say her name? You can say her name. It's pretty public. Oh, it's public, public? I mean, it's all over the internet. She just doesn't want to be on the show.

We had a conversation about it. And it was, I mean, we started dating Michelle was still living at the house. And about a week later, she moved out. And we'd been dating two or three months and Michelle hadn't even filed for divorce. And then the show was asking if, you know, Lacey would want to be on it. And we talked about it. And it's like, it's hard enough to start a new relationship in the middle of the beginning of a divorce where, you know, Michelle hadn't even filed yet. And then the Isabella factor was the most important where, thank God, Isabella's took it so well.

like my introducing a woman who's not her mom. How did you explain it? I just said, you know, I spoke to a behavioral therapist. I spoke to her school. I spoke to so many people about like the introduction after divorce. And I just said, you know, this is this is daddy's new friend. And she has a daughter as well. And, you know, it just, it was very organic.

And yeah, they got along really well from the get-go. So it was good. But it was hard. It was like, do I want to start a relationship on a TV show where what we're going to shoot scenes with my daughter who just met this person? And so we talked about it a lot. Do you see a future in which maybe she will film?

I mean, I'd love to have that conversation. We're going to, season three hasn't been announced yet, but we're all kind of standing by to see what happens. That's so wild. One of the things Michelle has talked about was about the delivery of Isabella. Yeah. I can clear that right up. I want you to, because that's,

As a woman who has given birth, like, okay, she said if people didn't see, she said you were very controlling in the delivery room, you didn't want her to have an epidural, you were like, didn't want her to have a C-section. You want her to do it natural. Yeah. So go back to the beginning. Go, I mean, listen, go back to when, like the mucus plug? No, go back to where you want to tell us that's not true. Let's start with conception. No, I'm just kidding. No, you know, like I said, it was, you know, we're in month nine, it's March, 2020 lockdown, boom, all the baby and me classes, the diaper changing classes, CPR, all canceled. And our doctor said to us, like, if you go to the hospital and you're not ready, ready, they will send you away. And most new parents are like freaked out and they go bag and they get in the car. So we had a conversation. I had always had conversation. I mean, I didn't even start taking Advil until I think I was 40, right? So I had brought up home birth, natural birth. And Michelle was like, absolutely not. But we had conversations about it. But the big factor. Why was it important to you? I just didn't want like I didn't want the baby to come into a world full of drugs in a stressful environment, like all these things that

you read about and you hear about whether they were true or not. It's what I believed in my head. Yeah. But I also, I wasn't that controlling. It was it's a partnership between Michelle and I. You say you just brought it up. She wasn't into it so you let it go. Yeah. And then so we get to the we get to, she goes into labor and call the doctor, make sure you're ready, ready. And then literally I went to bed that night. She was on the phone all night with her sister. And it was COVID. So I'd grown out this beard. And she's like, I don't want you to have a beard for the pictures. Make sure you shave in the morning. Like it was like that. And we get to the hospital, pull into the garage, COVID check at the bottom of the elevator for both of us. They send her up another COVID check. They send me back to my

car literally five parking spots away from the elevator and they call me up 45 minutes later and they're like she's four and a half centimeters it's you know we're going to admit her and which i can confirm because i gave birth during covid and my husband wasn't allowed with me until i got checked in like you go to the triage they check you and whatever yeah and you go there alone yeah and the husband can join at the in the in the labor and delivery room right okay so we they called me back up i walk five spots, they check me again, and then they sent me up to the room. And the epidural thing, I just asked about it. I was like, you know, does it go into the bloodstream, this and that? And they're like, no, it's in the lower back or whatever spinal, I mean, you know. And that wasn't

the conversation with the doctor. That was with the nurses. And she got the epidural almost immediately. Then when she was stalled at seven and a half, we started having the potocin conversation. And the doctor, as you know, is never in there until it's go time. Right. So I was talking to the nurses about it and I was like, no. Why she wasn't dilating. I feel we were talking about her birth story, but she was stuck at seven and a half for a while. For a while, yeah.

Yeah. But she went, everything was going so smoothly. And then, you know, the doctor, obviously, we had a conversation on the phone. And I, you know, a new time parent asking all these questions. And he was like, look, you have the option of a C-section or she wasn't, you know, her heart rate wasn't, wasn't all over the place. She wasn't, there wasn't any issue with her, the baby. It was just my conversation about Potocin and all of that. And then he just was basically like, if she's stuck for too long, we'll have to do a C-section. I was like, fine, just do it. And a couple hours later, she gave birth. And then

they sent me home 20 minutes after. Were you against the Potocin or against the C-section? Or both. I was originally asking questions about the potocin because I didn't understand it. Yeah. And I was worried about her coming into this world with drugs in her blood system, right? Then he explained it to me and he was like, you can, you have option A or option B. And I was like, well. Like either let the potosin do its thing or just if she, if her heart rate starts to go down or blood pressure goes down. Then you would have to do it.

And you have to do it. So I was like, all right, well, I don't want that either. So just do it? It was just a conversation with the doctor. But how do you think Michelle felt like it was more your decision than hers? Like, because she should, you should make it together, but it is her. body and and I wouldn't want anyone making that decision for me. Yeah.

Do you feel like you took control a little bit more than you showed up? Yeah. Did she need that in that moment? Was she like, because, you know, when you're fucking contracting all that shit. Right. And she said that. She had this total recall, but then followed it up with, you know, I was in labor and I don't remember everything super clearly.

Yeah. A hundred percent I took control because in that moment, I felt like that was my job to make the decisions when she was, you know, dilated and it was just, but it was something that we discussed. I never wanted to, I was hoping that it would be natural-ish, right? Yeah. She would go into labor. It would take four, five hours.

She would push and the baby would come out. And- You fucking try to push without an epidural, Jesse. No, no, no, the epidural was fine. Okay, okay. It's like the potocin and like, like I said. Well, the patocin, though, let me explain it to you. The potocin is when you're stuck so long at a thing,

the potocin helps you move along. Right. And you just explained it. All I did was ask the doctor and he explained it the same way you did. So it's not like a scary. Like I would rather do potocin and then if I wasn't, if it wasn't moving, then I like C-section to me personally, that's the people. Some people schedule a C-section from the get. They don't even want to get to the point where they're, you know, which is also fine.

But like, yeah, Potocin would have moved her along and then, but you did the C-section, baby's healthy, mom's healthy. Right. That's what matters. It all worked out. But it looks like Michelle is feeling in retrospect, like he controlled the situation where, you know, I would have wanted more anatomy over my body. Is she doing that or is she using that story as a one-sided narrative to start this campaign of control? Like, that's the way I look at it is like, you know, Michelle started this podcast where everything is like, you know, she has on her boyfriend, her two friends. that are super supportive are my old manager that represents her to create a narrative and what's

the best way to start with a controlling narrative by telling this story that doesn't it's not the truth and i'll tell you how it's not the truth i got sent home at 1 30 after isabella was born at 1250 i was sent home about 1 30 and i went home poured a scotch checked in with a hundred friends that we just had the baby and started the baby book you know very east coast old school, and I was writing in that baby book till five, six in the morning, telling the story exactly how it happened. And that's how I know that this story that she told about her birth experience was, and I give her credit, she tried to start this one-sided narrative about my control issues and, yeah, all that. That's just my kind of feeling on the whole thing.

Would you handle the birth differently today? No. Okay. And keep in mind, it's like, we were all freaked out. Like nobody had a clue what was happening. I mean, I walked in. I love to tell this story. We walked in and you know, you walk into the delivery room and everyone's like,

steal diapers, take everything in the room and put in your bag. And I walked into that hospital at Cedars and it looked like the opening scene of the Walking Dead when he wakes up in the hospital and all the equipment are out in the hallway. And I was like, you know,

you hear machines going off and there's nurses running around. And then even Michelle, when she went, in the post room, which I wasn't allowed in, she's calling me on the phone and she's like, the baby's crying. I don't know what to do. And I'm like, where are the nurses? She's like, well, I have to hit the emergency button to get them in there. I mean, like, you're left to your own devices. During that time, it was crazy. And then, you know, same thing. It was like, I had to pick her up on the street when I went to pick her up the next day. You know,

they wheeled her out with the baby on the, I didn't even know how to put the baby in the car. What month was she born, Isabella? April 15th, 2020. Okay. So that was still, so Noah was born in August. So mine was like COVID-y, but not as COVID-y as yours. Yeah, this was like, this was like three weeks into lockdown. Wow, that's crazy. Yeah. We'll be right back after the break. As you guys already know, I'm in my wellness journey era.

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Like getting dressed, be one less thing you have to worry about. And we're back. On this season, you and Kristen are buddies. Yeah. Which, like, flashback to you yelling at her last season. Kristen has a way. She gets over.

I feel like Kristen, an apology, and she's good to move on. Are you still friendly with her? Who are you closest to in the group? Shockingly, probably Kristen and Luke. Stop. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I talk to Jacks almost every day, you know,

and I'm super proud of what he's, I mean, half proud of what he's trying to do. But yeah, Kristen and Luke, you know, kind of a shocker not to give a reunion teaser away, but the truth is a lot of people didn't know that it was actually Kristen who reached out to me first. About the boyfriend thing. No, I was in... Oh, when you reconciled. Yeah, I was in, I was in you. Everyone thought I reached out to be strategic.

That was what everybody's been saying, including Michelle. And I missed my flight coming back from Watch What Happens Live exactly a year ago. We were sitting at the apartment and we're watching the episode, Lacey, my old manager and I, and all of a sudden I look at my phone and it's a message from Kristen. And it was the scene at the fireplace where I was crying and saying my marriage was over. was crying up in Big Bear. Yeah. And Kristen reached out with like the most gracious text message.

Like I didn't realize what you were going through. And I followed it up, you know, wrote back. And I was like, oh, my God, thank you somebody. It means so much. Like, let's get together. And then we, you know, Luke and I started hanging out and Chris and I started talking more. And then the beginning of the summer, we sat down at my house. And I apologize to her.

Okay. So you're good with Kristen. Good with Kristen. With the other girls, you pissed them off this season. And you also seemed like you didn't care. you were pissing them off. Like, I'm like, why isn't he trying to, like, be good with everybody? Right.

Where we talked about, like, how, whether you're thinking of the cameras, thinking about the show, and it's like, Janet and Brittany were really mad at you up at Santa Barbara, even though the season is kind of tricky because there was that moment where Michelle wanted you to not stay at the house, which was crazy. Yeah. And I think most people, I even, you know, when I posted about it on Instagram, like, most people, I feel like if there were teams in that moment, you had backing over that. Because it was a ridiculous request, like, it was your house to have you exiled from the

house. And I think people thought it was like just immature the way she went about the poll. Yeah. You know, because you did the mature thing of inviting her. Yeah. And including her. And then she did the poll of getting around. So the girls there were like, no, it's his trip. Like, it seemed like most of the girls. Then we get to the trip and there's the whore and all the comments.

Right. And Brittany and Janet get really pissed. Janet, what does she say to you? Like, oh, I would cheat on you too. Like, when people say shit like that to you, like, what, does it, do you care? Does it roll off your back? No. I mean, Janet and I have an interesting relationship.

We've never actually gone toe to toe. And she's never really come after me about anything. And that was a moment where we all know, I think, I think the entire fan base thinks Janet is sort of, she knows. reality TV world so well that she's trying so hard to like people call her a fan girl what do you think of that i didn't know any of that backstory she was always around you know jacks and i were friends i introduced michel to all the girls janet was always around but we never until we started doing the show we were never like sitting down having conversations and like it was like hello and she was always around

okay and you know yeah i it's it's like one of those things where i've noticed especially watching back this entire season, when Janet gets cornered or feels like she's losing, she just runs away and then yells back the last word. And you'll see that play out with a lot of people throughout the season. And yeah, it doesn't bother me. I wanted to have a conversation with Janet and Brittany earlier on. And Santa Barbara was just a bad. I don't want to make excuses. But the reality was I didn't want to, I didn't drink for like four or five weeks leading up to Santa Barre. You drank three bottles of champagne in the morning? As soon as Kristen and I got there, we.

Oh, she was your drinking, buddy? Kristen, Luke and I, we started making apparel spritz as soon as we, I didn't drink in four or five weeks, and then I picked up right where I left off. And, you know, I don't know if I was nervous that I was going to be in a house with my ex-wife or, but like, thinking back on it, I'm like, I was going to be in a house with my ex-wife and there was so much tension. And why would I just choose that moment to start, like, you know, having this frat boy. When you see yourself, like, in the underwear, yelling at Jason, like, what do you feel?

Are you, like, cringing at yourself? Do you get the state of mind you were in? Even Jason, like, I'm like, why are you yelling at Jason? You were like, get the fuck out of here. Yeah. Why? I was just so overwhelmed at that point. It was, you know, we all know, we all know, Michelle's made it very clear that I'm

a crier and I'm very emotional and stuff like that. And it's, it was like, I just wish, thinking back to it the second, instead of trying to give her a white flag and making a joke out of it, I wish I just pulled her aside in the, you know, driveway and then like, let's hash it out. I didn't do that at Dave and Busters when the, when the rumor came out because I was just like a little in shock. And the rumor you said was not true. The billionaire rumor. I never believed it, but I had heard it. It wasn't like I made it up. I had heard it. And, You know, I said it, I've said it a couple times, like, I remember telling Michelle that I heard that rumor in the doorway of her apartment when I was dropping stuff off. And it wasn't the first time she heard it.

That's why, you know, other comments I saw were she was like crying about this rumor. And then all of a sudden she shuts off the tears and starts doing this poll about me not getting invited to the house. She, you know, I think she was crying because it came up on camera, not because she heard it for the first time. you. Okay. So yeah, I regret, you know, I was very emotional and I should have just ended it with a conversation right away. Well, you couldn't, Jesse, because then you have a conversation at the winery and you, you start good and then you lost it midway. I know. The whole, the whole thing was bad. It was a bad experience. I'm super. Did you ever say sorry to her? Oh, a thousand times. Really? Oh, yeah. Did she accept? No, and I don't know, like, she brought it up at the premiere.

Her and her boyfriend Her boyfriend came up and started talking and made some weird joke and again, I wasn't drinking at the premiere and she came over and she's like, I'll never forgive you for calling me a hooker. And I was like, listen, I've apologized 50 times and I don't know if you should forgive me.

It's unforgivable. What do you think of her boyfriend? There are moments, the fans are kind of seeing a little bit more of him, Aaron. And I feel like in pictures before we saw him filmed, you were like, oh, like cute. and then he people are kind of questioning like what's going on there he's like very kind of aware of what's going on around him like i don't know i don't know how to read him i didn't get a read yet

he's the polar opposite of me he's perfect for michel yeah you know and you see it in like dave and busters where she's like i'm so stressed out and he and he says there's something like why you're so strong you know and he's a very like she needs that yeah she's very calming influence on on her and not saying that i'm not but i've seen they're dynamic and it works and it works yeah it's it's good for and you know he's we've had multiple conversations now that isabella's living at his house he doesn't he doesn't want to be a caretaker but he's also very gentle and sweet and isabella loves him and so how often do you see isabella we are doing every other weekend and then two days on two days off during the week so a two

two two to three schedule we just switched to so every other weekend and two days on two days So we'll do, like, Monday, Tuesday, I'll drop her off at school on Wednesday. Her mom will have her Wednesday night, Thursday, drop her off Friday, and then I'll have her for the weekend. So it's 2, 2.3, and it's a pretty common schedule. Sounds kind of nice. I'm just kidding. Okay, days off, you know? Or is it hard? Is it, have you learned to live with it?

I'm so obsessed with her. Yeah, she's so sweet. It's hard. It's like, you drop her off at school Friday morning, and then you're like, who, that was a long, you know, a couple of days. And then by Friday night, we face time at 7 p.m. every night when we're not with. whatever parent is in with her. That's nice. And do you keep it super nice next to her?

Like you and Michelle. Oh, yeah, yeah. You're good at that. When we're around Isabella, we have, you know, other than the very, very beginning that was super toxic, Isabella is very happy with us. Okay. You killed me when you were like, fries from the Chateau, like, killed me. Because, like, do you not cook?

No, I do cook. Oh, you do? Yeah, but. He loves him. She just loves the fries. The fries at Chateau, first time I ever discovered them. them, Sunset Beach on Shelter Island, same Andre Belau's hotel, best fries in the world. And they deliver it the same quality.

They, yeah, there was, I think that last scene, I think you posted about me crying in the last scene of season one with Michelle and she has the, the Bloody Mary and the French fries. They delivered that up for that day for her. You ordered it. Yeah, like I get delivery of French fries up to the house if I don't walk down. I live. Oh, you live right? Like three houses up the street.

True, true, true, true. Okay. And what about this whole thing about you spending money like crazy? You don't have it. You spend all their money or your money together on thousands of dollars of bottles of wine. And what do you say to that? It's again, it's a way to control a narrative to, you know, it's completely one-sided. The reality is we did have a lot of money.

The real estate market in LA, 23, 24 was very, very difficult. spending that much money on wine, like, I don't have that big of a wine seller. So the whole thing is fall. But he just have a wine seller. Yeah. It's just not that big. Yeah. Okay. But no, the truth is... So what's the most you spend on wine, a bottle? Honestly, that this whole thing of like $15,000 bottles, I think allow us at something like that in the after show. Like, there's only one wine, I think, in the world, maybe DRC that's $10,000 a bottle. And we used to do, we do these wine lunches that became kind of iconic in Beverly Hills. And the rule is everybody brings a bottle. We shot one of them for season. I remember. Everybody brings a bottle. And then, you know, we don't order off the wine

list. We, like, and if somebody does and they decide to order a couple bottles of champagne, they pay for lunch. So this idea of like, I think our biggest lunch, like I said, was $20,000. I didn't pay for that. But it was like at all. It was divided by how much. The most I've ever spent on a bottle of wine is probably a 1990 Lafitte, which is $2,200. probably the most I've ever spent. Who drink it with you? Three or four, you know, private equity guy, estate manager. We do these networking.

First of all, it's a business expense. 100% right off. 100%. 100%. Yeah, I was audited. 100%. They gave me the green light. But no, you know what?

You know what? I have always been a grand gesture type of person. And I spend money. It'd be scary to bring shit like a bottle of wine in your house. No, because I drink. What if somebody brought like a whispering angel? It's amazing on a Sunday afternoon. Really?

Yeah, ice cold rosé, yeah. No, I drink $20 to $2,000 bottles. I'm just, I'm like studying from my level two song. I've been obsessed with wine since before I moved to New York. So because now that you said it, because when you were talking about you and Michelle disconnecting, you were like, and then she stopped liking wine. Like that was a big thing for you. It was a big thing.

We got married in Napa. Like we did, you know. Like that was like she changed. We got married in Napa. We did, you know, Thomas Keller restaurant. We did a four-day weekend. We did a big thing in Opus 1 for everybody. Yeah. And yeah, ended at promontory. Just Michelle and I was, it was a big part of our life. And but like memories is what I spent money on. So, you know, one example, I always wanted to show Michelle and Isabella and my family from Boston our heritage. So when I was at that point of my career where I could, take the entire family to the U.K., Michelle, Isabel, and I spent a week in Paris. Isabella still talks about Paris. Then we met my family in London, went to the Scottish Highlands, got to see this castle that was in my grandma. What's your heritage? What are you? English, Scottish and Irish.

Oh, okay. Yeah. We went to the Scottish Highlands. You know, I set up tea in a tour of Balmoral Castle when the Queen was in residence for Michelle Isabella and my mom. We were to Ireland. and Michelle at the beginning of our separation said the trip was a waste of money and my mom said my brother who did two tours in Iraq for this country the happiest she's ever seen him

and that for me I don't regret it I don't regret any dollar I spend on my family I don't regret spending a month in Capri with Isabella when she was a year and a half because she still talks about it. Well yeah she mentioned that she was like Jesse wanted to go there

because like all the famous people go there and all the, does that kind of jabby thing, like, make you feel? It's a, it's a, it's. Like, did you want to go there because famous people were there? No, I, I wanted to go there because my first trip there was the most magical experience I ever had. And then when I took Michelle back the second time, those people that I met, you know, that first time, they were like, oh, you Jesse, and I'm like, how do these people remember me? I was here for 10 days a year ago.

And it was just that community that I felt there. And it wasn't about being around famous people. It was about if you want to sell to the Uber wealthy, you go where the Uber wealthy goes. It's true. Because there is an interesting thing where you'll meet somebody like, let's say we're worth a million dollars. You meet somebody who's worth a billion. When you're on an island like Capri and you're going to these restaurants and stuff like that, they don't know if you have a million, 100,000.

They just see you living the same lifestyle. And it's a way to have these conversations. And network? Network. Yeah. I had this weird thing where Michelle used to always joke about it. I never went up to people at restaurants and stuff. Michelle was really good at that to network.

But some reason I'd see somebody floating in the sea, you know, at a beach club. And I'm like, they look cool. I'm going to go talk to him. And it was this. Like that's where you opened up. Yeah. Because again, you're there with all these people. They don't know who you are.

They just think you're there visiting. I see. And then you can kind of. Yeah, and then you fake it till you make it. Got you. Yeah. Okay. I appreciate that.

Kristen made a remark about how Jason doesn't wear his wedding ring. Yeah. What do you say to that? I mean, if you watch that scene, I followed it up. There are any rumors of him cheating? I mean, it's hard for me. And I was the one that brought it up to Jason before it all kind of came out. But, you know, it's hard for me because I was like, God, I had my wedding ring off most of lockdown.

Yeah, guys, sometimes take them off. washing my hands 8,000 times a day. You really don't want to be pissing Kristen off because she'll fucking, she'll go. She'll go for it. Danny and Nia had a rough episode. I will say, even before seeing this, I feel like what you guys are saying to them, I mean, you weren't saying this, but the girls was kind of the vibe around town. It was, they seem, you know, like they're putting on this pretty perfect show.

Yeah. And that to me, it was weird just as someone who's like postpart of me, like seeing them debate baby number four when they're finding it difficult with three kids. And then she's pregnant now, so I'm happy for them, and I hope she's doing well. But when they were debating, when she's in the scenes talking about wanting a baby, and I'm like, wait, but in the scene before, you were saying it's hard to be with three kids in this house, and it's so difficult. So why do you want number four?

Four days, like, crazy. So I was questioning that. And then, so it kind of seemed like, and now everyone's kind of talking about, including the fans of the show, like, what's going on? on there because they seem like this perfect couple. But then what did you think the alcohol thing? Meanwhile, you were chugging three bottles. Nobody says anything.

And then Danny goes to take a couple shots in the pantry. Yeah. And they're like, we have friends like that are in rehab. Like, what do you think? Are you? I mean, like there was a scene where Jason said, Brittany was like he ordered 12 bottles of Prosecco and Jason's like, I don't understand he looks younger than he is.

He drinks like a fish and you can never tell. And then there's other people like, Danny, and that's why I coined him Dark Side, Danny in season one. Because you can tell. Danny goes to the dark side very quickly. And, you know, you'll see that play out more and more. And unfortunately, and I said over and over again, like, this guy's made a couple mistakes.

The only person he should be dealing with is the person involved. But all of a sudden, you know, and it's unfortunate that Jacks came out before season two started filming and saying, oh, they were portrayed so perfect. I'm going to bring him down, which it wasn't fair. Wow. He said it on a podcast and, you know, Danny, yes, I had said from the beginning of season two that, look, they have a family dynamic and I appreciate it. Like they want to keep certain things. They have an unbelievable communication, the two of them.

So things, they're not slandering each other to their friends and they get together. They go to couples therapy. They talk it through. they come up with a solution, they move on. I respect that. They don't have to. I think the complaint for people

is like, you're on a reality show. The least you could do is say, Danny's drunk. Like, you pass out drunk and not, like, okay, don't bring your marital issues. We get it. But, like, just give us. Brittany's like, give us something.

Like, I mean, your relationship was put on display and all the horrible things that happened between you and Jackson, Brittany. What's the deal with Quentin Tarantino and why is he, like, a thing?

A thing for you. the valley. I don't know. It was... He's, by the way, married, you guys, to an Israeli, the daughter of a very famous Israeli singer. Right. So in Israel, it's like a huge deal because he, you'll see him in Tel Aviv, like, walking

the streets. Like, okay, Quentin. It's also a random marriage because she's literally the, like a nevo baby in Israel. But anyway, how is she, how is he in the valley life? Unfortunately. Why? Because it was, it was one of those things where, you know, if you don't, want things coming out, don't talk about it. And I remember Michelle was with two girlfriends.

They go down to the pool. She calls me up. She's like, there's a guy, Joaquin or some boy, and he's a director and everyone keeps coming up to him. I'm like, Quentin? I'm like, like, Quentin Tarantino? She's like, yeah, yeah, that's who they're talking about. And so I was like, talk to him, state, like literally telling her to stay there. So she comes up. We go down, I think, the next day with Isabella. And he was there again. And we started talking about his new movie. And we had a list. that was like old 1970s property in the hills. So we were showing it to him.

He talked about, you know, wanting to get a rental property. And we talked to him about real estate. I tried to pitch Isabella, like, you have to get her on the movie. You have to get her in the movie. Why, you want her to be an actor? She's done some stuff, but I thought it would be fun. Like, we're sitting here at the pool with Tarantino. And then it invited Michelle to, we started talking Mexican restaurants in L.A.

And we were like going back and forth, what's the best, who has the best margaritas? And he's like, oh, I go here every Wednesday, like, and I invited Michelle to go. And Michelle followed up with him and he didn't get back to her. And I'm like, just go. He told you the day, the time. Just go. So she went and had this, like, crazy lunch with him. Wait, he was there at the time he said he was going to be.

Yeah, he was there. And other, you know, actors and stuff would, apparently Michelle told me they would come in. They'd have a meeting with him. And she was there the whole time. And I mentioned it to Jacks. And, like, all of a sudden it was this thing. Like, you let your wife go out on the end. And I'm like, yeah, who cares?

Like, the guy's married, he happily married with two kids. And, like, I'm loyal. Like, I would never, obviously, never think anything would happen. It was so platonic. I don't know why it became a thing. That's the only thing that's going on with him. People bring him up all the time in the Valley. They bring it up all the time because it's like, it's a name to be said.

And it was one of those things. It literally started with the fact that I would allow, like I have to allow Michelle to go to a six-hour lunch. But you were thinking of this from a business perspective. 100%. And she was too. It was super platonic. You're like this I wasn't worried about. No, not at all.

That's funny. Danny was asked then, watch what happens live. Which lady of the group would he least want to be married to and why? Who would you say? Who would I say? Yeah. From the Valley. I mean, do I have to be married to any of them?

I mean, he said Janet. And funny enough, if I was married to Janet, I feel like we would be like Bonnie and Clyde type of situation. I don't know. I mean, I don't, I guess, Michelle. Yeah, right. Easy answer. Easy answer. Easy answer.

Okay, I got it. Well, thank you for coming. Thank you for having me. And I'm waiting to see how the rest of the season plays out. I think you'll be very surprised. I think, you know, it's there, there, I keep saying, I was told where season one, I knew exactly what the storyline was going to be, right? I knew what I shot.

I knew what Michelle shot. this season I had no idea because Jackson, Brittany are not together, so those are two individual, you know, shooting schedules. Michelle and I, same thing. And yeah, I have a great, really, like, literally had resolution with everybody and talk to everybody.

So I was able to get a little piece of what was going to happen, but I wasn't 100% sure. So do you feel good about it, though? I was nervous about it, and I was told that in order to be a hero, you have to be a villain, and that's what people love about these shows, is like, one day you're good, one day you're bad, one day you're good.

What are you feeling, from the people like what's it genital what do you feel the vibe is is it do you feel the vibe is like people are on your side shockingly shockingly it's very team jesse yeah what do you think yeah i mean it is shocking yeah i think i don't know maybe it's just because i'm not trying to create a narrative i'm just kind of like i make bad decisions i make great decisions i take accountability and you'll see it episode six it's like i know i screwed up in santa barbara i dealt with it like on multiple different fronts and then you know episode six you'll you'll see my conversation with my coach like why did this happen and how do I fix it and I don't know maybe that's why

well you're not going to be using the W word anymore no more Ws no more Hs scream into a pillow if you need to scream into a pillow there you go thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of not skinny but not fat follow me on Instagram at not skinny but not fat subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcasts and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocheroo. Thank you guys so much for listening. And I'll see you next Tuesday.

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