Not Skinny But Not Fat - Jesse Metcalfe: The OG 2000s Heartthrob

Episode Date: March 17, 2026

Jesse Metcalfe joins me to talk about becoming one of the biggest heartthrobs of the 2000s thanks to Desperate Housewives and John Tucker Must Die. He reflects on early fame in a very raw and vulnerable way, including things he regrets, and why he sometimes he feels like he underachieved. We discuss his goals, what he’s working on, his relationship, and more!This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.Go to littlespoon.com/NOTSKINNY30 and enter code NOTSKINNY30 for 30% off your first orderVisit unrealsnacks.com/NOTSKINNY to get $2 off a bag of Unreal. Terms and conditions apply.To explore coverage, visit ASPCApetinsurance.com/NOTSKINNYText NOTSKINNY to 64000 to get 20% off all IQBAR products, plus FREE shipping. Message and data rates may apply. Go to LiquidIV.com and get 20% off your first order with code NOTSKINNY at checkout.For a limited time, save 40% on your first month at ritual.com/NOTSKINNYShop Minnow's new apre-ski capsule collection at shopminnow.com and enter code MEETMINNOW15 at checkout to receive 15% off your first order.Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to the Not Skinny But Not Fat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch. And I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars on my very own podcast where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. Okay, okay, okay. Happy Tuesday. Welcome back to a new episode of Not Skiy Man fat.

This is your girl, Amanda. How's everybody doing? or post-ascar Sundays, which, by the way, I always watch. Like, I even got into fights with people yesterday. Like, my family was like, okay, but you don't watch. You only care about the red carpets. I was like, I watch, okay? It is my job.

And I'm obsessed. I love, you know. And then I didn't watch. Oh, my God. Like, literally in the afternoon, I'm defending it. I'm literally like, of course I watch. Like, I don't even care about the red carpet. And there I was just looking at the red carpet looks, which, by the way, were so underwhelming.

Like, there were a few good ones, but it was just like underwhelming, I don't know. And then waking up this morning, because obviously the Vanity Fair after party is past my bedtime here in New York. And then I wake up to the Vanity Fair party and I'm like, wow. Wow. And it's like, everybody should have worn that outfit to the Oscars. You know what I mean? And it just like, and also, like, that just seems like fun. I feel like people can chill.

Like, it's a party. So I feel like the energy on the carpet is like different, you know? And plus you don't only just have the nominees. You have like the Kendall Jenner and the Kim Kardashian, the Healy Bieber, like of it all. So it just seemed like so much fun and also just better outfits. Do we feel bad for Timothy Chalamey who didn't win? And like I've talked to people about this like on the side of my life because this is what I do. But like do we think that like the ballet opera of it all and like all of her.

his press and, you know, the fact that people were kind of getting the ick or or not liking what he was saying, can that affect winning the Oscar? You know what I mean? Like, on the same breath, like, Sean Penn won Best Supporting and people were pissed, like, why would you give to somebody who didn't even, you know, care to show up? And it's like, because they were voting on, like, best supporting actor and they thought he was Best Supporting Actor. Like, I'm naive that way.

Like, we're voting, you know, and we're vote. I'm part of the economy. And they voted. By the way, Sean Penn was stellar in one battle after another. Like, stellar. He was, wow, like, you literally, like, saw him on the screen and you were, your whole body tensed up. He was amazing. And, like, how cool.

I mean, Chelsea Handler said it when she was in the thought. How cool that he, like, didn't fucking give a shit to be there. He was like, I'm smoking sex at home, okay? No, he was somewhere. I read, I can't remember, like, went to visit, like, a president of some country. I'm not. I can't even remember. what I saw. But anyway, so is it just we're voting on who we thought gave the best performance,

or do you think they can be affected? I mean, I guess they're human, the voters. They could be publicists. They could be actors. They could be directors. Like, it could be like, oh, oh, Tinti Chalameh not voting for him. I mean, I guess, yeah, it's not robots. It's not like, so I guess it could be affected by the press run and everything that he's saying, listen, IMO, like the ballet and opera thing. Oh, my God. When I first saw it, I watched a clip over and over again. And I was like, why did he

say this? Like, it's not like if a celebrity gets asked a question that is so direct and then they answer it and then they get in trouble, you know? Or it's like he just said it out of his fucking ass. Like, what?

Like, Matthew McConaughey was there and he was like, mm-what, you know? And it's like, I'm sure he after seeing the uproar that this cause, you know, it's like, why the fuck did I say that? And I'm sure he watches a clip and is like, absolutely no reason. Like, there's absolutely no reason why I said that. Like, I said that for absolutely no reason. Like, nobody asked, like, what forms of art?

Like, I don't know why he said that. He was just, I think he was constantly on this press run trying to prove how passionate he is about movie making, how passionate he's about acting, how all in he is, how talented he is, how great he is. And I feel like, you know, of course, the opera and the ballet can, you know, be offended or whatever. But I think it's more about that. It's like another punchdown of this press tour that is, I mean, it's funny because I was going to say Fran Drescher. Fran Dresher, right?

That's a real name. Past president of sex. She got asked about that a lot on the carpet because she plays his mom, I think, in Marty Supreme. And I haven't watched it. I can believe. I know. I know. I know.

No, no, no, no. And she said it right. she was like, you know, maybe less press, you know, maybe less press. Like, you know, but she said he's a good guy. He, his parents are artists. Like, none of it made sense. Like, his family are dancers. It was a stupid thing that he said.

But the other thing is, like, somebody compiled this. But, like, he said it before. Like, he's obsessed. He's a man obsessed. Or it's not even a man obsessed. I mean, sometimes we each have the things that we repeat in our lives that we think are, like, good lines, you know? Like, I hear myself doing it sometimes when I,

repeat something. I'm like, oh, my God, Amanda, like, that's your thing. You say it to every person you meet, you know, and like, that's his thing is, like, dissing the ballet and the opera. I don't know why. Maybe he, like, secretly wanted to be a ballet dancer. But obviously, as per the internet, it went far. People were, like, comparing Tom Holland and how he spoke about the ballet versus Timothy. And, like, I do agree this press run. I don't think looked good for him. Like, he didn't come across as, like, wow, what a man. She came across. Like, pretty like, you know, full of himself a little like, too like, I'm an actor, you know, and people get the ick from that.

Like, people don't love that. Like, you can take yourself seriously, but like, just don't, you know, don't, don't do too much. Don't do too much. I don't know. Do you, I wonder if, like, Kylie saves him because, like, then you see them on the Vanity Fair carpet. You see them on the carpet and you're like, there it is.

Whoop, there it is. there is the star, there is the star, even though people were saying he looked like Kevin from the back street boys at the Oscars. And it was cracking me up.

But these two, you guys, Kylie did say, in a recent interview, she wants more babies in these last years of her 20s. And you know whose babies

she's fucking having? Timothy. Okay? But it was funny. Like people, Doja Cat chimed in, which I don't know if it's real, but it showed that Kylie Jenner

commented on Doja Cat's video, hating on Timothy. It showed that Kylie wrote, calm down all well. And I was like, is that real? Because I couldn't find it. Like, we all went to the comments. I couldn't find the comment. So you never know in today's age. I'm like, what's real? Hang on. Stop. Anyway, in today's age, okay, that's a good trend to assume. In today's age. But if you could go back to the fucking 2000s, wouldn't you be sliving? Like, 2000s, like that era, like John Tucker Mazai era. Yes, that's where I'm going.

you guys, today's guest is John Tucker. It's Jesse Metcalf and, you know, I mean, you probably fell in love with him as the iconic John Rowland Undesperate Housewives, aka The Gardener, that launched like just TV crushes worldwide. John Tucker

must die, like we said. And he's here today. He has a new skincare line called neutral because he literally looks seven and he's 47, so made sense for him. And we talk about his early rise to fame and like navigating Hollywood what he did wrong, like, coming up in Hollywood.

He has a lot of regrets. He's very honest in this pot and very vulnerable and very real that I'm telling you. Like, I was thinking about our conversation for a while and also, like, very in awe of, like, how real he was being. Like, he has, again, a lot of regrets from his career. He wants to make up for it. He wants to make amends with people that he was not good with. And he wants to do more.

And it's really touching, you know, and interesting, as he refers to. flex. So yeah, that's a good one. Enjoy my convo with Jesse. Are we both with fake glasses? Or are you with real glasses? Mine are also real. I just don't really need them. I actually got LASIC and I'm like losing my vision again. That's how old I am. I thought we were. I had to bring glasses back. I thought we were both pretending. No, I do. So I do have a number. It's just like I don't really need it. Okay. But you felt like you wanted to put some prescription lenses in there just like just in case someone checks. No, no. I failed. No. I failed. I feel the driver's thing.

And I was so confident. I was like, two, A. And they were like, no. And then I was like, I did this. I've always wanted glasses. And I did this to myself. Yeah. But I like them.

I think it's chic. You willed your vision to go. I will get away. So you could wear glasses. Yeah. What's your number? I have no idea. It's high.

I mean, it was. I used to be like close to legally blind. And then I got LASIC. LASIC's apparently terrible for you. What age did you get LASIC? I got LASIC actually in a Golden Globes gift bag. You know how they just reported that the Golden Globes gift bags are like a million-dollar gift bags? Wait, so I didn't see that.

Okay. I went back when I was at the Golden Gloves, probably in like 2005 or 2006, I don't think there were a million dollars, but they were still like 300,000. Like, and you got some worth of gifts. Yeah, you got like some amazing stuff. You got like a high-end watch. You got, and I got LASIC eye surgery. Wait, there was $30,000.

A card. Yes. LASIC eye surgery gift card. I am dying that you made that appointment. Oh, I made that appointment. Are you kidding me? It was amazing. Wait, that is amazing.

But now they're finding out that Lasic eye surgery is terrible for your eyes. Why? What are they saying? Well, one, it doesn't last. You know, I mean, it was great for a while, but two, it causes dry eye when you get older. Wait, what age did you do the LASIC? I was 20, 25, 26. 25, 26.

Yeah, yeah. So throughout your career, you were with contacts. This is a groundbreaking information. I was with child. No, I was with contacts. You were wearing contacts. Yes. And how annoying are contacts?

I don't know. For someone who's worn contacts, you know, I mean, you end up like sleeping in your contacts all the time and then your contacts like in the back of your eye and you're like pulling it. I mean, it's like. So you get the golden globe thing. You call the number on the back. Yes.

You make the appointment. Yes. Yes. You fucking do it. And it's like a. Who came with you? You need someone. It's like a clockwork orange, you know, when you get LASIC eye surgery.

You know, have you seen that last scene in a clockwork orange where they're like, you know, showing the lead character, all the violent images. and his eyelids are held open by these like little forceps. That's what it's like when you get laced. Yeah, it's kind of scary. So are you going to do it again? I don't even know if you can do it again. I haven't really even looked into it.

I just started wearing glasses again. Well, it looks good on you. Thank you. Jesse. That was an interesting little detour. That was a nice warm-up. That is not a detour, Jesse. That's the show.

That is the show. Excuse me. I love this nugget. How are you? I'm good. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. You look amazing.

Thank you. Like, I was going to ask, like, what's your skincare routine? I'm like, duh, you fucking came out with a skincare line. I thought it made sense. I thought it worked. Wait, so everyone told you, you're not 47 years old. Yeah, I was getting that a lot on the carpet. People asked me about my skincare routine.

I was like, I could do this. This could work. This could be a vertical that's authentic for my brand. Yeah. My brand. Wait, what were you? You have a brand. What were you doing?

like before, like were you... Podge, podge routine. Taking a product from this line, taking a product from this line, you know, whatever I was gifted, whatever was on the counter. I mean, I wasn't putting too much thought into it, really. And then when you came up with,

it's called neutral. It's called neutral, so phonetically. Yeah. Yeah. Love that. Thank you. And it's neutral because it's gender neutral. It's for me.

I got a gift. Don't be jelly. I was kind of thinking like carbon neutral. The product's really clean, one of the cleanest lines on the market. If I look it up on like Yuka, Yuka's going to be happy with it? I don't even know if.

it's on yucca, but I would imagine so. Okay, let's get on yucca. Because it's only the active ingredients and natural botanicals. There's no additives. There's no silicones. There's no fragrances. Are you like a healthy guy? Yeah.

You're like a clean guy. Yeah. Well, that's a new thing. Okay. I mean, relatively. Relatively. But you wanted to be super clean and everything. I did. The skincare.

Yeah, I did. And it's only like four steps. We're keeping it simple. Well, it's only four products as of right now. We definitely have plans to roll out other products. And how's it going? How does it feel to be a brand owner? It's going really good.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, first of it, it's totally self-funded. You know, so it's a lot of pressure. Like just you. I haven't taken any outside investment. I've been very lucky that I have a lot of people, friends in the industry that have been supportive of me, a lot of influencers that have posted for free, friends that have posted for free.

I have a great relationship with Tori Johnson who produces the segments on Good Morning America and The View. And that's definitely helped the business, you know, because you make a substantial amount of revenue on those shows. but it's been a it's been an interesting journey i've actually been having a lot of fun with yeah yeah have you probably would have never imagined yourself getting into this kind of thing i never imagined myself doing a lot of things yeah like what like what you know when i was a kid like you are a kid no i'm really not i'm really actually an old man have you been told this

let it out you can bet because like what the hellie Yeah, I mean, I'm 47 years old. Yeah, I'm 47 years old, you know. I feel it on the inside. Do you really? I do. You're like, oh, my knee hurts. Does it really?

Yeah, it does. Got a lot of aches and pains. You guys are 2000s heartthrob. That's you. I guess, yeah, yeah. You know what I like about you? You know what I like about you? No, don't know.

So I was going to say what I like about you is that I feel like you haven't rejected that term. No. Like you haven't, I never did. You know, and try to want to be, you know,

labeled something else. I feel like you were like. Well, people are afraid of being pigeonholed, you know, and having that kind of pretty boy heartthrob moniker. It can be difficult to break out of that. And how did you feel about it?

I never broke out of it. I mean, it's challenging, for sure. I mean, I definitely feel like because of the roles that I took earlier in my career, I never necessarily got the opportunity

to play the type of roles I really wanted to play. Like what was your dream? I really still haven't, you know. But it's never over, you know, it's a marathon, not a sprint. And I'm still striving within the industry, but I've definitely shifted gears and tried to do other things, you know, to stay relevant, to pay the bills, you know. I mean, you know, starting a business, starting a brand has been something totally new to me.

And it's kind of like reinvigorated me in a lot of ways and inspired me to, you know, just believe that I. I can do anything that I set my mind to, even at the right behavior of 47 years old. Well, because it's like, you know, that's why I'm so interested in talking with, like, actors and actresses because so much of this industry is, like, not in your control. I mean, all of it, really. I mean, what can you control? Like, getting good at your craft or, like, fucking going on the audition or sending in the

tape. But, like, it's not in your control. So starting a business, that's in your control. Like, that you can fucking be like, I'm an awakening. up and do the thing. And you're so right about that. That's so insightful that, you know, you know that. Obviously, you've interviewed a lot of people in the industry.

But, I mean, all we can really do is kind of look our best and work on our craft and give the best possible audition. And now that all auditions are basically on tape and not even in person, it's even more challenging. Yeah, you think it was better to get in the room? I do. Yeah. I do. I think there's a certain energy in the room.

You can convey something about yourself, about the essence of who you are that you can't really convey over video. I agree. Yeah. How do they keep that good? going because I agree even for like an interview or intro call like not even on an audition or a chemistry read like I just interviewed somebody who she did the chemistry read for this huge Netflix movie on Zoom. Wow. You know? And it's like how do you get the vibe? How do you engage that? I know.

How do you even get the vibes? Yeah, seriously. But also like talking about being pigeonholed like being like the hot guy is like a good thing. You know what I mean? It's like. It's like, Like, like, your shirt was all... I can tell you some stories. It's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not always what it's cracked up to be. It's not always what you think. Oh, did you feel like, did you feel over-sexualized? Oh, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that, although at times, yes, I definitely was over-sexualized and objectified, you know, within the industry.

But, I mean, I certainly didn't come on your show to... Complain about that. No, no. No, but I want to talk about it. Or be a victim in any regard. But, I mean, you know, my journey dealing with... sort of my appearance in the way that I look started at a very young age, very young age. Like when I was a child, I was a very pretty boy, you know, and I got ridiculed and teased as a child,

like insanely. For being beautiful? Yeah. Yeah. Like, like, what were they saying? I don't know for not looking enough like a boy, for not looking masculine enough. I have no idea just for standing out, for not looking like a boy, for not looking like everyone else. I don't really know. What were the kids saying now? What various, what various different

people were thinking or that I looked like a girl. I looked like a girl, that I was gay, like all this stuff. And this kind of followed me. It followed me through adolescence. It followed me in middle school. I dealt with it in high school. I dealt with it when I came to Hollywood. It just kept coming up. It, like, it haunted me. You know, and I think that was one of the main reasons why I was kind of, I had a chip on my shoulder. I mean, I was kind of like angry when I made it. When I finally made it, you know, when I was like, I grew up and got taller and got bigger with a man and like had money.

Like, I was a jerk. Really? Yeah, because I was just so sick and tired of people treating me poorly. Did your confidence grow, though? Oh, yeah, my confidence grew. I was even confident back then. Oh, you were. Even when I was getting, you know, kind of made fun of and bullied, you know, as an adolescent

and a little boy. I mean, I still sort of believed I was meant for bigger and better things. You did? Absolutely. I couldn't wait to get out of the small town that I grew up. I grew up in Connecticut.

In Connecticut. In London, Connecticut. How far is that from like New York City? Two hours. Okay. But it felt small townish. It was super small townish. Oh, okay.

Oh, yeah. You go into the area where I grew up. It's a very blue collar. So what age did you know that? Not an emphasis on the art, on the arts, Not a lot of diversity. Yeah. Yeah.

So what age did you know you said you were meant for bigger things? Well, I mean, I was always in, I was always artistic. You know, I drew, I painted, I sang. Did you get bullied for that? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I never acted as a child.

You know, I went to a performing arts high school, actually. High school called the Williams School that was on Connecticut college campus in New London, Connecticut. A really hoity-to-y kind of school, no locks on the lockers. You know, everything was run by the Honor Code. You know, no, uniforms. Oh, no, there were grades. Oh, there were grades.

There were grades. It was a highly competitive school. I mean, we had a couple. Well, my graduating class was a big graduating class. It had 50 kids in it. Oh, wow. And we had a couple kids that got 1,600s on their SATs, a perfect score. Oh, wow.

You know, so it was like, it was kind of for kids that were small. What did you get on your SATs? I got like a $1,300. That's amazing. That sounds like a good score. Thank you. So did you get into, did you apply to college? I only applied to New York University.

And you went. And I went to New York University. And did you live in the city and the dorms or what you do? I did. I lived in the dorms. Yeah. I lived in Weinstein, you know, as a freshman. Was that like Union Square-ish?

That was on, yeah, that was on a university place. Oh, cool. So how did you like that, that time of your life? It was an intense time in my life, for sure. I mean, coming from a small town in Connecticut, even though it was just two hours away, it's a totally different world in the city, obviously. I mean, the city, I always knew I wanted to come to New York for college. I knew that's where opportunity would strike.

You know, I did some modeling, you know, when I was in high school. And I used to take the train, sometimes call out from school to the city and do, like, photo shoots for YM and, like, 17 magazine. How were you getting these jobs? Like, did they reach out to you? I had an agent. You got an agent. I went to an open casting call for modeling, like, my sophomore year in high school.

And I got an agency. And you got, like, an agency that could see. send you on things. They would send, they would just kind of like book me. I would get direct bookings. Did you want to make money from it? Or did you want to make money? Or did you? Everything I did kind of was about money when I was a kid. Oh yeah? I didn't grow up with a ton of money. So I was very fixated on having money, making money, being rich, raising my family's quality of life. And you were, sounds like you were like a very self-aware kid. Like you knew, you were like, I knew that I had a pretty face and knew people were making fun of me for it. I knew

was going to do big things, and now I can use this to, like, make money. Yeah. Yeah, I was, I was pretty self-aware. I mean, yeah, I was aware of all of those things, but I was kind of still deeply affected by, you know, my life's circumstance at that time, you know, I was, I had a lot going on. You know, I was, I had a father who had, you know, some, some issues, you know, with the law and drugs and alcohol and was sort of, I was estranged from him for like 15 years. You know, I mean, I had a turbulent, formative, teenage sort of life that definitely echoed

throughout adulthood and throughout my career in Hollywood. Were you like, I need to get the fuck out of New London, Connecticut? Absolutely. We'll be right back after the break. You guys, drum rule, I have. really exciting news. So Dear Media is heading to New York and I will be there. Yep. Dear Media is doing this event. It's called DM by night. Okay. It's an evening of comedy, juicy conversations and your favorite hosts, including me, obviously, bringing our shows to the stage. So this is going to be like a live show of your faves, like a night of standup, except like not standup, but like, you know, when you go and there's like comedian, community, community. So it'll be like podcast hosts, podcast hosts. So have a night of so much fun. It's me. It's Claudia and Jackie from the toast. It's Ben and Josh from Good Guys.

And Taylor Strecker is going to be hosting it. It's going to be at Webster Hall. So in NYC on May 16th, you guys, be there or be square. It's going to be so much fun. There's going to be drinks, brand activations, nightlife vibe. Like, it's just going to be a vibe. So this is going to be a night where your group chat, okay, is going to be, it's going to come to life. Okay.

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And we're back. So New York, NYU, did you go to, Tish? I did. Do you have to audition? Like, and what's it? I studied film and television. Oh, okay. Okay. So I studied writing and directing cinematography, film history. It was a pretty amazing program. Yeah. I really, really enjoyed myself. I had to write an essay about my favorite movie at the time, which was The Basketball Diaries and movie with Leonardo Caprio that like really impacted me. And that got me got me in. Oh, that essay got you in. Yeah, because I had never, you know, made a short film or anything.

It was just really the essay. Oh, wow. And I had an incredible time. And everything that's happened for me, you know, in Hollywood started here in New York. In New York. So I was modeling. I went to an open casting call for a couple commercials. And then I went to an open casting call for a daytime television show called Pashions.

Oh, and that's how you got passions. Yeah. And I had no, so I had basically no experience. I go to this open casting call for passions. They give me some sides, you know, some script pages. They tell me to go out into the lobby of this building and, like, study these pages. I have no idea what I'm doing. I try to memorize these pages to the best of my ability.

I come back in there, I audition. I'm terrible. I mean, literally terrible. I just, I have no clue what I'm doing. But I could see whoever was running the casting that she had a little sparkle in her eye. You know, I was kind of like, oh, this woman kind of seems like she's interested in me in some capacity. Left there being like, okay, well, maybe that didn't go so bad. I heard nothing for like two to three weeks.

I get a phone call in my dorm room saying that they want to fly me to Los Angeles for a screen test. I'm like, wow, this is insane. So then I got serious. Then I got an acting coach. I worked on the audition scenes. I fly out to L.A. They put me up at like the Hilton at Universal Studios. I do the screen test and I nail the screen test.

You nail it. Yeah. Like it went really well. I'm like, okay, that went well. I get back to New York. I get into my dorm room. I get into the regular swing of things. Basically two days goes by, I get another call.

Casting's like, we might need you to come back to Los Angeles. I'm like, I can't come back to Los Angeles. Like, I'm in college here at NYU. Like, what are you talking about? What's going on? We're going to have someone else call you back. Someone else calls me back and goes, we'd like to offer you this role. And I literally, like, I hung up the phone.

We were in sort of an apartment-style dorm where I had a roommate on one side. And then there was two other guys living on the other side of the dorm. And those guys were kind of like my good friends. And they were both in film, too. And I literally walked into their dorm room and I was like, I'm out of here. I'm going to L.A. to be a famous actor. I go, you guys have fun. No, stop.

Wait, so you didn't end up finishing NYU? No, no. I dropped out with like a semester left and never went back. And never went back and finished. Not that a television and film degree is really all that valuable. I got to be honest. I know, but you did like it. I had an incredible experience there.

There was some professors that really. really, really inspired me on the acting side, on the directing and filmmaking side, on the writing side. I mean, it's an incredible program. You were like, I'm out. But wait, don't a lot of the, it was like a soap. It was a soap. So, but it filmed in LA? It was the ziniest, wackiest soap that's literally ever been on television. Arguably, it could be the worst television show that's ever aired. But people loved it. People were obsessed with it. Wait, what network was it on? It was on NBC. Oh, because ABC like films their soaps here in the city. Yeah. And NBC.

filmed out there. Yeah, we filmed at CBS Radford, actually. Okay, so when you first auditioned, then you said you bombed. Because, like, I feel like soap acting, is it, like, a different type of acting? No. Isn't it more, like, seren to camera? It's just aren't as good. It's not a different type of acting.

You're saying if, like, Leo was on a, I get what you're saying. I think Leo was on a soap. Oh, he probably was in his career, you know? I know he was on, like, I don't know. Is he on, like, growing pains or something? Right, right, right. It's on growing pains. Okay.

But there is that, like, look into camera a little bit. Okay, okay, yeah. Maybe that just wander off and, like, end with a long stare, like in the camera. Okay, that's a good point. Okay. That does exist. So, so you took an acting coach and you got good and you felt confident, like, coming on to. Well, I still didn't even feel confident in my craft, you know.

And when I came into, came to Hollywood, when I came to Los Angeles, I still really. really didn't have much experience as an actor. Yeah. You know, I really sort of learned on the job. I worked with several different acting coaches, like Leslie Kahn, Ivana Chubbik. Ivana Chubbik kind of changed my life. She's incredible. She's such a character and was known for being maybe a little mean, you know, in her acting

classes. Like she would just sort of cut right to the core of the issue. Like she would be like you're terrible. She would kind of eviscerate people, you know? But it was good because it gave you a thick skin. Yeah, it gave you a thick skin and has something. that you need to survive, you know, in the industry. So how many years were you doing passion?

I was on passions for five years. For five years. Yeah. And then you left? Did they kill you? No, I left. Okay, you left. You were like, I'm over this.

I wanted to see if I could, you know, get something better. And you did? I did. You got desperate housewives. How long after? My first pilot season. My first, I actually went the whole pilot season when there was pilot season. I know.

Everyone says that. Do you guys miss it? Because I feel like people talk about. It was kind of fun. Yeah. Because it was intense. You know, you'd have like sometimes three auditions a day. And they were in person.

Yeah. You know, so it was kind of, it was a rush. You know, it was kind of cool. It was like a big thing to look forward to. Now it's like you have a week to prepare an audition. You can tape it 50 times if you want to. Right. You know, and still not get it.

And yeah, yeah. It's the story of my life. No, but I. Yeah. But I don't know. What were you even talking about? We were talking about getting desperate housewives. Okay.

Yeah. So I went, I went an entire pilot. season. I got close on another show called Veronica Mars. I think I actually had a test deal. You know, when they like your audition, then they set up a test deal with you where you basically have to audition for the studio and the network. They decide how much you're going to get paid. They sort of read up a preliminary contract. And I had to choose between testing for Veronica Mars, which was also a really great show. Right. Chris and Bell and everything. Right. Kristen Bell, exactly. Or testing for this other show, which sort of seemed like a primetime soap opera.

Desperate Housewives. So I ended up testing for that show and booking it. Wait, you needed to decide which one? Which one that test for? You can't do both. No, you can't. You couldn't do both. So how did you decide to go for the one that's more, that sounded more soapy?

We kind of just guessed. Because you were like, maybe I got good at this and. We kind of, we kind of, we thought the role was maybe better suited for me, I think. I don't know. I listened to my reps at the time. And hashtag no regrets, obviously. Obviously. Obviously.

I heard a recent story that you said about not making it. to an entourage audition? Yeah, I like shows to go to like a party in Malibu and not like audition for entourage. I like read the script and I was like, what's this? You know? Yeah, I didn't really think. By the way, when I read that article,

I mean, you and Adrian. Yeah, we look a lot of like. It's a lot of like. I was like, that makes total fucking sense. Totally. So you had the audition and you were at the stage in your life because you've spoken about like getting sober. Right. So were you, was that a non-sober phase or something?

That was probably a non-sober decision. Yeah, sure. Yeah. Where you were like, I'd rather go party. Or it could have just been an idiotic decision, you know, by like a young guy who thought he knew better, you know. Which I clearly didn't. Do you believe in like whatever is meant for me is meant for me? I do. Yeah. I do. You know, but I also sometimes ruminate on the idea that like, you know, maybe I am, maybe I have some like karma that I'm making up for from like a past life or something. because my journey's been kind of wild, you know. It's been maybe from the outside, it looks like I've, you know,

kind of like always lived a very blessed life, and I have for the most part. But I've had a lot of ups and downs, too, you know, and I still really to this day, and, you know, like I said, it's a marathon, not a sprint, and the journey's not over, but I do feel like I've underachieved. You do. Yeah. No, because I'm thinking about that, because we did also talk about the, Not in your control in this industry.

And a lot of people haven't achieved the things that... I used to think it wasn't my control. Yeah, that's the thing. I used to think it wasn't my control. I mean, look, when you're hitting and when it's all happening and it's like one opportunity after the next, you feel fucking great. You think it's going to last forever. Right.

You know, and you think you're in control. Well, what would you tell these kids? Because we see it today, too, but it's like today with social media, there wasn't really social media when John Tucker was like. I totally wish there was social media. when I was on Desperate Housewives and during John Talkin'os. Then I'd have 30 million followers and I'd never have to work again. He is a businessman.

He is a businessman. But like, I feel like those moments of skyrocketing become even bigger. Like, you know, the heated rivalry guys right now, right? Like, the moment gets crazy. And they're like instantly on the cover of GQ. It's like you do one show now and you blow up so hard that it's not like you have to do like a couple hit shows, and then you get your first big movie, and then you're on the cover of GQ.

Now it's like, what's the new hot thing? Boom, put them on the cover. I know, but you know what I was thinking? Because I was thinking about the heated arrival. Did you watch a show? I've watched a little bit of it, yeah. So love, love, love. But I was thinking about them because I like, get in my mind about it.

I'm like, oh, my God, they're blowing up. They're everywhere. And then I was like, wait, like, remember the show Monsters with Cooper? Did you watch the Menendez Brothers? Yeah, yeah. I'm not, they're great. They're amazing. but like they had a really, really big moment after the show, too.

Do you get what I mean? Like moments are like moments. And it doesn't matter if it was... You got to capitalize on my time. Yeah. And if 20 years ago or now, it's still not guaranteed that after your moment, you're going to be the hottest shit on GQ next year. You know what I mean?

You're right. You're absolutely right about that. It's a crazy... You got out of the right team behind you. You got to be very strategic. You got to make the right decisions. Do all the things. Don't do all the things.

You got to do everything right. You got to do everything right. Yeah. You can't really mess. mess up, you know, in any regard, you know. You can't say the wrong thing. You can't do the wrong thing. You can't pick the wrong project. I mean, it's like, yeah, it's, it's a very, it's, you have to be very strategic once you have that big break. I don't, I don't necessarily think I was that strategic. No, so do you have regrets about that? No, I think it's like after your first big

break, sometimes it takes a year, sometimes it takes two years for you to get the next role that makes sense that's going to even take you to a higher level. Yeah. So you really have to be patient, you know, and patience has never been my strong suit. It hasn't, huh? So how long after Desperate Housewives did John Tucker must die happen? After the first season. So, okay. Well, I was fired from Desperate Housewives.

Wait, why were you fired? Well, after the first season, they didn't really know where else to take my storyline. And, you know, our creator, Mark Cherry was kind of like, hey, this isn't like Desperate House gardeners. Yeah. Like, this is Desperate Housewives. So unfortunately, you know, you're not. going to be a series regular moving forward on the show. We're going to bring you back intermittently.

And at that time, I had been offered John Tucker must die from 20th Century Fox. So I was like, hey, cool, no big deal. I'm going to be a movie star. But, you know, thanks. Oh, like you didn't agree to come back. No, I did come back. I did come back intermittently. But I wasn't hit, you know, super hard. Like, oh my gosh, I'm being like fired from this like mega hit show. Right. You were like, it's cool. I took it in stride, you know, because I, you know, I thought that this was only the beginning. But you were, it was. Like, how old were you when you did that? 26, I think. 26.

Yeah, 26, but I looked like I was 17. And right, because Eva was, what, 28 or something? She was just a little bit older than me. I know. That's wild that you were, so you always looked younger than your age. Yeah. You always did. But how did it feel at that time?

Because I remember I had like Taylor Lawtoner on my show and guys don't really talk about the like insecurity is like the way we do, right? For instance. But like taking off your shirt, all of that, were you confident about it? it? Was it like, shit, I need to like work out a lot? And, you know, like, did you have insecurities going into that? No, I worked out. I worked out a lot. Yeah. Yeah, it was a lot of pressure. It was pressure. Definitely. I mean, at that time, I was pretty naturally in shape. Yeah. As you get older, you got to put a little bit more work into it. Luckily, I really like working out.

Yeah. I honestly, I like it. You work out daily, don't you? I like fitness. I like health and wellness. I like optimizing my health and wellness and different, you know, health and wellness hacks and stuff. Oh, you do like Huberman things? I'm kind of into all that stuff. You're into all that stuff, aren't you? What's like the weirdest shit that you do? What are you doing, like, salmon farm patients? No, no, no, no. I haven't, I haven't, I haven't gone into salmon sperm just yet. I do that, honestly. I mean, just like, I, I, I have a red light, I just bought a red light sleeping bag. You have to, like, zip around you? Yeah, I literally get into this, like, sleeping bag that has, you know, red light emanating from the top and the bottom. And I, like,

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if someone played the role that you played, it would have a lot of women coming. Well, someone else did play the role, but I played. You? No, they had cast that role with another actor. Before I booked the role on Desperate House, I was a recast. Wait, who was the guy before you? I don't remember his name.

Oh, you don't remember his name. That's kind of like, I'm sorry, I don't remember his name. Apparently, there wasn't great chemistry between him and Eva. Yeah. And so they decided the recast role. And then you got on the show. Yeah. But like, I feel like women, did you, was it life imitating art?

Were like older women trying to hit on you because of the show? Well, when I first got into the business, a lot of older women would try to hit on them, actually. Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, so I guess it was life-imitating art of it. Did you get down with that? Did I partake in that? But did you partake? Not really. Not really. You only dated your age. Well, you know, a lot of flirting at like events and stuff like that. I mean, look, when you're like the new hot thing, everybody's trying to get a piece of you. Everyone's, yeah. So you got to be relatively discerning. And then you get John Tucker must die. Does your head, you're, your head is kind of big at that point, right? I thought it was probably pretty big. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I always believe that I've been a really kind of the same guy throughout my entire time in the industry. But I have had incidences where I felt as though I was being diminished or disrespected or condescended to in some way, shape, or form.

And my reaction outweighed the offense. You know what I mean? Because you were saying you were a jerk. Yeah, I would just kind of like go a little too big, you know? I need to pick to the things that I had dealt with in my childhood. Yeah. You know? Not to make excuses for myself.

But I mean, yeah, I would like. What? You would like start first you would get violent. Like what were you doing? I've like threatened people before. I've like threatened directors before. No. You know?

Yes. Oh my God. I just like I've like lost it. Would you today? if you saw them be like, yes. Yes. I'm sorry. I was a dick.

I look forward to the opportunity to running into a lot of these people and making amends and apologizing. And I have to many people actually, you know, which is, you know, really lighten the burden, you know, because I do, I'm a little embarrassed by some of my, you know, behavior. But you, do you chalk it up to like you were young. Yeah. You were a little hot-headed. You were taking out some, like, aggressions that you had from growing up.

I was, I was, it was from like, it was from like, it was like, it was like, it was like, trauma, you know? Yeah. It was like I was like expressing trauma. It was like I had like a wounded little boy inside of me who was like overreacting to everything. Did you because you're into the wellness and the health, but are you therapy? Like how did you deal with that sort of stuff? I've done a lot of therapy. Yeah. A lot of therapy. A lot of at a network therapy. It costs me a small fortune because the good therapist, they're not a network. No, no, no, no, no. You cannot find them in network. Are you still doing that?

Is that something that's important you to keep up with? I'm not in therapy at the moment, but not to say I won't be, you know, in the future. Therapy's great. What is your, like, ideal situation? You have your brand now, your skincare brand. Are you still sending auditions? Like, is there like... I'm still auditioning and I think giving some of the best auditions of my crew.

Really? You're giving it. But I haven't booked anything super substantial as of right now. I got a few smaller movies coming out. I mean, I'd love to get back on a hit television series, something that ultimately could be a little bit more critically acclaimed. I'd love to win a Golden Globe or an Emmy one of these days. Put it out there, babe. I'm not necessarily saying I want to win an Oscar, but a Golden Glover or an Emmy would make me very, very proud.

And I, you know, I'd love to build a successful brand. I love that. And build out my profile and health, wellness, and beauty. I don't think there's another straight guy in the industry pushing skin care. There's not, right? Yeah, I don't think so. I think I'm kind of in the lane all by myself. So I posted when you, did your girlfriend tell you that she likes me?

Yeah. Like loves me? I don't know what I'm saying. No, so when I. Helen? It's pronounced. Okay. Because I was like Helene, but Helen.

Okay. So I posted when you came out with the skinny gear, it was your brand. Yeah. I was like, new skincare brand, gender, gender neutral, love it. And she DMed me, which was. She was so sweet. She was like, oh, my God, I almost crashed my car, like, when I saw you posted it. And she's so sweet.

She's so beautiful. She's not a, she's not in the, in the biz. No, she's not. Okay, what did she say about me? She just said she loves your content. She thinks you're really funny, really down to earth, that you give great interviews. She loves your whole journey and how you built your career. And obviously, I've looked into you as well.

And I'm very impressed by what you built. Thank you. Well, I'm so happy that that happened because I'm so. that made me even more excited about the interview. And then I started following her on, like, TikTok. And by the way, if you want to see Jesse's content, like, do you know what she's doing when she's filming you? She's literally using me on her TikTok so that she can get to 10,000 followers and she can start monetizing. Wait, I'm upset that you guys are.

No, I love it. I, there's nothing I love more than, like, people being, like, real and, like, saying it how it is. You know what I mean? Because we're all feeling it. We all live this life. We're all trying. That's me. But she even posted, she's like, he's, I think one of them was like,

I'm pretty sure I have the most gorgeous boyfriend in the world. She really loves, yeah. I know, I know. How long have you been together? Two and a half years. It's going good. It's going really good. Yeah.

And I saw you say in an interview somewhere that like, someone was like, you're dating a Normie. Do you remember that interview? Someone's like, you're dating a Normie. Honestly, I've mostly dated Normie. They didn't stay normies, you know, during the course of our relationships. But I think most of the women that I've, I certainly haven't dated for my career. Like you haven't dated.

I haven't dated for my career at all. Have you had opportunities? I've only, many, yeah. Really? I've only dated. Many. Wait, many that people were like, this would be a good idea. They weren't like set up, but, you know, various different people that I've worked with in the past.

And then there was interest there. there was kind of like some talk of. But you seem like you're so business savvy. Why wouldn't you be into that? Too real. Really? Yeah, I may be business savvy, but you weren't like. I'm not built like that.

Mm. Yeah. A little PR relish. Well, I have boundaries. Yeah. I mean, I get you. I wouldn't do anything. But people do it.

I wouldn't do anything to be on a new hot show. Right. Sell my brand for, you know, $200 million. Yeah. I wouldn't do anything. Yeah. You know, I mean, I have limits. So you dated.

mostly Norma's. Yeah. And also now. I've been very lucky in love. I've had a lot of incredible women love me and support me in my life. But this one's the best one. Really? Are you a good boyfriend?

I am. Yeah. Yeah. Because you called yourself like a headcase on this interview that I saw. Well, I can be. You're like, so she, are you a lot to handle? I can handle a lot. and I'm a leader and I'm a man and I take care of the women in my life.

But I have my insecurities, you know, and who do you vent to? I mean, you're an actor. Yeah, exactly. Other than the person closest to you. And she can like take that on. She gets it. She takes it on. But there are moments where she's like, hey, listen, you know, shut up.

I literally can't hear about this anymore. What are you in like fifth grade? And I'm like. A man spiral. You're like in a man spiral. Yeah, I got on a little man spiral, exactly. But, okay, so when you were on John Tucker, Maasai, you were there with Britney Snow, Ashanti. Who else was there?

Sophia Bush. Ariel Cabell. Wait, so you didn't hook up with any of them? No. Really? And you were single at the time? I was, yeah. I mean, Sophia Bush and I went on a couple, like, lunches during the shoot.

Yeah. But that wasn't a match. Did you have a crush on anyone when you were, like, at that time? Not really. Not really. I've kind of always been about the work. I know that sounds crazy, but I haven't really hooked up with a lot of my co-star. I know I know you want that.

No, by the way, I don't. By the way, that's not my brand. I was telling. No, but I'm just interested because like you were during that time, you were like in this peak of your life. You're going out. You're getting the things like, yeah, it would sound like you would be not a fuckboy, but like a little bit, yeah, having fun with it. Well, I'm not saying I wasn't at certain periods.

But I mean, not in the industry, maybe. It's really all about the work. Almost like, I almost tried too hard. I was a little neurotic on set. Really? Yeah, I would drive like directors crazy being like, can I have another take, you know? By the way, I just heard this about an actor. It's like reminding me of this like tea that I heard.

Okay. He's like going in your footsteps in that way. But it's interesting because this actor that I heard it about is kind of new. You guys won't guess so it doesn't matter. And I'm like, because I want to get in your head about it is like when you're kind of new at this, Like, where does the Hutz become from to say, I'm going to talk back to this director, like, I don't give a shit. Well, the Hutz becomes pretty quick when you're, you know, the lead of like a $30 million movie. Oh, I get it. I get it.

You get treated different, you know, I mean, that's when you're talent. That's, that's for sure. So I got it. But it really came, it really didn't come from like a place of arrogance. It came from a place of perfectionism. Like, I want to get this right. Perfectionism is basically just like insecurity that manifests itself is trying to control everything sort of around you so that you can be what you perceive to be the most perfect version of yourself. That's it.

Yeah. And it drives people crazy. Yeah. It drives people crazy. Because you sort of, you suck all the air out of the room and make kind of the whole situation. You know, there's 30 cast members, you know, there's. And you're like, I need to do it again. And it's like all about what you need to do in this moment so that you can be your best.

And so you can be perfect. And, you know, you really have, you have to temper that as an actor because, I mean, it's such a collaborative art. Right. And as the lead actor in a television series or in a movie, it's almost your responsibility to make sure that everyone's having a good experience. It's not really the director. It's not really the producer. It's not really the network.

It's the call sheet guy. Whatever you guys say, the number one on the call sheet. Number one on the call sheet. It kind of all trickles down. So you feel like you hadn't done that in what? At times, I think I failed. And you wish that you. Yeah.

But I've learned from it. You've learned. Yeah. And I think that I'm a better cast made, a better actor and just an all around better person. No. Yeah. I mean, growth, man. Growth.

That's what it's all about. It's all of the growth. Yeah. So the whole sobriety thing, which you came out with like back then, right, like 2008. When did you speak about it for the first time? Jeez. I mean, I guess the first. time that I went to rehab, you know.

Oh, was I in like 2000? I think, I don't know. When was it? Okay, 2007. I'm like pretending like I didn't went to be a. Thank you. Thank you. I don't know.

I did it for you. Look, I've had my struggles. I've had my struggles with drugs and alcohol, definitely. I mean, I just like, a lot of pressure, a lot of scrutiny, wanted to kind of escape all that. But then at a certain point, it becomes really not about the emotional underpinning of addiction. It's just addiction.

You know, like if alcohol is around or drugs are around, you have like this, it pulls you. Did you know that you had that kind of person, like, in college and stuff? I kind of was hopeful that it had skipped a generation. I mean, I touched on the fact that it sort of runs in my family. Both my grandfathers were raging alcoholics, you know. My father, who's sober now. Yep, who has quite a bit of sobriety. And you're in a good, you have a good relationship with him now?

We have a relationship. I wouldn't say it's great. We have a relationship. So that's a, it's a star. And what about what has your journey been since the rehab? I haven't stayed sober the whole time. Yeah. You know, I can tell you that.

But I am now and I'm in a great place now. And I think that's what matters most. But I definitely slipped up quite a bit, you know, in the late 2010s. Do you feel like you know about yourself that you can't dabble, that you need to either be like sober or not? Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah.

I mean, because it's a progressive disease. And you may be able to go out once, twice, three times. Oh, I only had one drink. I only had two drinks. Oh, I went home after that. But then it's like the fifth time, it gets you. Yeah. You know, your inhibitions are lower just enough that then maybe, you know, you don't go home.

You do some drugs. Maybe maybe you go home at, you know, 10 o'clock in the morning. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. But I know one thing, those moments are so, they're just so, you have so much shame. You know, if you're battling addiction for basically all of your adult life, when you mess up, you know, and have one of those, have a bender or really, really late night, you feel like such crap about yourself. It's just like, it's never worth it.

It's never worth it. So what is like a vice now since you're healthy, you're this or that? Give me some bad. Social media probably. Really? Yeah. Like too much? Oh, yeah.

I'll like totally doom scroll. Like at the end of a day, Helen and I will be in bed together and like, you know, I'll be on TikTok or I'll be on X reading some like fake news. I mean, you don't know what's real on X, you know, with AI and like. I know the AI movie posters get me. And I'm like, how to lose a guy in 10 days too? I can't wait.

You know? Like. Oh, it's not happening. Damn you, AI. The movie posters. Would you be down for like a romantic comedy? Like I feel like like like I love romantic comedic. And I think I really thrive in that genre. I mean, I actually have a small romantic comedy coming out on Roku like in the late spring, early summer. Oh, amazing. But obviously I've done a fair share of work on the Hallmore channel. And I've had a lot of success over there. I mean, like some of my movies are like some of the bigger movies that they've made, you know.

So yeah, I think I'm good in that genre. You are good in that genre. And what about music? Because that was your first dream. I still play guitar and sing and write a little music. I mean, it's sort of like on the back burner right now. You know, it's a hobby. Yeah.

You know, it's never something. I did write some original music for a Hallmark series that I was on called Chesapeake Shores, where I played a country singer and licensed those songs to the show and still make publishing royalties on those songs to this day. So I have made some money. you know, from some music that I've made. But I'm definitely very passionate about music. There's no doubt.

What about if you had to choose a reboot, John Tucker Must Die or Desperate Houseways, but obviously you'll come back. Look, I think a John Tucker Must Die sequel would be really fun. Yeah. They wrote, right now, reboot. They developed a script. They developed a script.

Yeah. And actually, R.E.L. Kebel was sort of, you know, running point on that. But I think it kind of died on the vine a little bit. It sort of fizzled out a little bit. Oh, no. So I don't necessarily really see that happening. but it's not really a make or break situation, you know.

Have you kept in touch with anyone from? Yeah. Yeah, I talked to Ariel and I'm going to be seeing Penn Badgley shortly. I know he's been on your show. He has. I'm going to be on his show. Oh, cool. Amazing.

Competition. No, no, I'm kidding. He was hilarious here. We talked about astrology and went fucking wild. He was like, he like lost his mind. No, he lost it. Yeah, he got to win insane. I know.

I'm like, okay, Scorpio. He was really hates astrology. He should. bring it up in the interview and be like, oh, I plan on. I'm really into astrology. I got my terror parts. And actually, I kind of am. You are?

Wait, what are you? I mean, I'm a Sajj. Wait, that's a good one now. I love my sign. But I mean, I'm into it to the point that I recently got my chart redone. Sometimes I do some sessions with an astrologist. Oh, my God. You need to bring this up.

He's going to rip you to stress. Yeah, I know. Probably. I'm obsessed. Probably. Probably. Okay. Finish the sentence.

Okay. The weirdest thing about being a heartthrob is. Oh, shit. The weirdest thing about being a heartthrob is people believing that that's all you are. Oh. If John Tucker must die came out today. I'd have 30 million followers and I'd be rich as hell. No, I fucking love that.

The internet thinks, but really, um, mm. The internet thinks, I don't really necessarily. know what the internet thinks, but in my insecure mind, the internet thinks that I am shallow and I am very deep. Yeah, I mean, it came across today, my love. Thank you. So, biggest misconception about you? Biggest misconception about me. That of year 27. Exactly. Exactly. I mean, Maybe that I'm not as down to earth as I am. I mean, you are. Yeah, thank you.

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