Not Skinny But Not Fat - Jill Kargman: Inside the Wild World of Upper East Side Moms

Episode Date: May 19, 2026

Jill Kargman is here and if you loved Odd Mom Out as much as I did, this episode is for you. Jill takes me inside the wild world of Upper East Side moms, the real-life inspiration behind the iconic show, and her hilarious new movie Influenced. We discuss social media loneliness, the insane things people do for status, and why she wanted to book an elective C-section.This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episodeVisit crocs.com or a store near you to find your perfect pair of Classic Clogs!Get $25 off your first purchase when you go to therealreal.com/notskinnyFor a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you visit Nutrafol.com and enter promo code NOTSKINNY10Get your choice between free sirloin tips, ground beef, or chicken wings in every box for LIFE, plus $20 off when you go to butcherbox.com/notskinny/Go to quince.com/notskinny for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Gead to chime.com/NOTSKINNY and join the millions who are banking fee free today.You can get 20% off the Nanit Smart Baby Monitor System – including the new 8" Home display, PLUS you get a free travel case with code NSNF at nanit.comProduced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to the Not Skinny Bonafat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch, and I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars on my very own podcast where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. Hi, everybody. Happy Tuesday. Welcome to a new episode of Not Skinny Bonafat.

I'm your girl, Amanda. You know what's funny that I don't have a week off a year in my pop life. Like when people are like, oh, like, how many do you recording a week? Or like, do you? It's like, I've been going 52 weeks a year for the past 2018. My God. Six years? Oh, my God.

No. Eight years? What, I have my pod for eight? That makes zero sense. Okay. I started my pod in 2019. Yeah. So that's seven years.

I would say like really locked in like six years probably. Yeah. I don't got seasons, time off, anything like that. If anything, I have. bonus episodes. So just, you know, your girl is working hard and she's working consistent and she's working consistent. And that's what I would say. Like, whenever I get asked, like, should I start a pod? Like, what do you think about people starting pods? I would say three things. I made that up. It might be two things. One, have something to talk about. Have something to say.

Have something unique. Have a unique point of view. I feel like at this point in a game, you got to have a niche. Like, you know, since I'm one of the OGs, like at this point, like we can't have another interview show, you know, at this point, you can't have another pop culture show. Like, I feel like it really needs to be niche at this point, or it just needs to be better, you know, or it just needs to be really good and your point of view is so unique and so different. And there's like a place for it and a yearning for it in the landscape. I do love that people are still coming out with pods. I feel like, even when I came out with my pod in 2019, I was like, I'm not the first, you know? And now it's like, people are coming out with pods every day,

2026, it's like new pod who it is. And I love it. I love it. The medium is growing. It's like if the medium is doing well, I'm doing well. You know what I mean? That's how I feel. It's part of how I feel. You know, things are layer. Things are in black and white. I just actually worked out, which is why the endorphins, I just worked out so hard. Like, are we doing all the most annoying exercises in today's workout? You know, like all the things you hate, like the lunges, the split squats, the pull-ups, the push-ups, like, can we spread these out? But I did only work out one time a week, which is, again, I want to make sure people know this. Like, when they're like, oh, you're, you know, you're doing so well and you look so great and, you know,

you're working out and shows. It's like, I'm working out, but like at my, like, most intense time, and I was like, nutritionist working out, it was like three times a week, twice Pilates one workout. And now I'm like, really kind of the Pilates haven't done in a few weeks in the workout I'm maybe we get one or two, but like have to get one. So I'm not like, I'm doing okay. I'm not, I'm not, like before I never worked out on a day in my life. My trainer just told me today, like you remember, you couldn't do a lunge. Anyway, I still hate lunges, but just, you know, but that brings me to Hillary Duff. Hillary Duff looks fucking amazing. She looks insane. Her body is ripped. Like you could tell

she works out. You could tell she has been working for this spot because I remember we were pregnant at the same time and it made me feel nice that she looked like a normal, pregnant person. You know what I mean? It was like, she's one of us, you know? So I know that girl worked hard. She had four babies. However, this new like Hillary Duff has a real body vibes. Like, I feel like that's what the internet is giving. It's like she's not like, you're doing like Kate Winslet. You know what I mean? That's what it feels like to me. I know that she's getting all the praise in the world. She's so hot. She's so gorgeous. Like she has a spotlight. It's amazing. But I do feel like there is a connotation of like real body, like a mama four.

Like she's the, she's fucking ripped right now. Like she's teeny tiny. Like this is not the example or the flex that you think it is. You know, just be like she looks fucking hot. She looks fucking amazing. Like no ifs, ands, buts, qualifiers, mom, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I generally don't know.

I just saw, I saw something about that that was like finally like representing. I'm like, what? She's literally tiny and ripped. Like beyond. Like send the trainers. send the training sessions. But anyway, let's get into it. Let's get into it, guys, unless I have something else to say, oh, aside from the fact that you know why it might be on a high right now, aside from the endorphins, is because this week is almost over. I'm recording this on Friday,

and I've had the most insane week of my life that I complained about last week, but that I thought would be less insane than I was predicting and then it was more insane. It was like one thing, Like it was like literally my days were like just scheduled to a tea of like there was no time in between the things. And this is all happening as my house was being a remodeled, which is almost done. I'm so excited. And I'm not teasing you and I'm not whatever. I'm just waiting for it to be done so I can fucking share and blast the fuck off.

But that was all happening. So like all these things are happening and like one thing to the next and whatever while they're like people working in my house and things are coming in, things are coming out. But it's great. It's all good stuff. It's podcasts. It's Hulu's Get Real, which I've been hosting a few episodes already, a few episodes. So it feels really good. I think it was like I did my like fifth this week, which they haven't all come out yet. I think like two or three of mine have come out. Anyway, so check that out. Check out Hulu Get Real if you haven't yet. And tomorrow, because I'm recording this on Friday, we're doing the Dear Media live show, which is going to be so fun because I do have a surprise guest that I'm not telling you about. And I'm excited. about that. I'm excited. And then I'm going to pop champagne when I'm done with this week. Like, I'm going to, it's going to feel so good. It's going to feel so good to be done with this week and then

have another week. But then like a more normal week. Like things are just going to be more balanced back to like the normal fluctuation of things and the ins and outs and the scheduling. Anyway, let's get to today's podcast. I've been a fan of this woman for years. I watched her show autumn out after I had Noah, I found it so relatable and so fucking funny. And I love following her on Instagram. I love seeing what she's up to. She's now out with a new movie called Influence, kind of poking fun of that influencer culture, which I love, Upper East Side Influencer Culture to make it more specific. It's Jill Cargman. She's hilarious. She's brutal. And she cracks me up. I just love her vibe. The movie was so funny, an hour and a half of just like laughing.

And by the way, like, I talked to her about this, this movie, Influence, which is, like, making fun of influence culture. So there are some things that are so out there, but there are so many more things that are, like, not exaggerated. And you realize, like, how crazy the world that we live in is. But you also realize, like, as fucking cringy as some of this influencing can be, like, the people beneath that, like, might not be the worst people. Like, you may think that they are. Anyway, she's a fellow New Yorker. She is dark. She is dry.

She is funny and she's here. Jill Gargman. Testing syphilis. Cipolis. First of all, you look amazing. You're so nice. My husband had a 6 a.m. flight. So I've been up.

Hello early. And more, like, I feel like, this is so specific. But I've seen, like, I feel like you look tan. Really? Yeah. For you. Oh, all right. Maybe I got some sun walking from the train.

Well, but I'll take it. Are you like an SBF queen? No, I don't wear. SPF because I don't think it works on me. I think the only SPF that works is a building. Like, I truly believe that. Wait, you've tried SPF. Yes. And I still get burnt. And the only thing my, I've had melanoma twice. My doctor's like, don't go outside. Just do not be outside between 10 and 2. For real. Yeah, I'm just not outside. Wait, you've tried, like, walking to the train you'll get burn or if you're, like, outside on the beach. I don't go to beaches. No, walking across the street,

I'll get like color. Have you tried every SPF like all the recommended was? Yeah. Wait, that is crazy. They might like ameliorate the situation, but I am a lobster instantly. And you've gotten melanoma twice? Yeah, stage three. I had all the lymph nodes removed from my badge.

I have a scar. I have a, wait, it wasn't sun. It's like my genes. It's just genetic. So that's unrelated to getting burned. It's nothing to do with sun. No, because that's fascinating. I mean, I have bad genes.

So there are like Australian. lifeguards who are in the sun all day. And then I'm never in the sun. And I got melanoma like in my couter. It's not like I'm a nude sunbather. I have bad jeans too. Yeah. Well, it's a Jewish jeans. It's a Jewish gene. It's good to find out. In the movie, influence is so funny. Oh, thank you. I love it so much. Thank you. You said, Black, don't crack. Asian don't raise in. Juice get facelifts. I'm shopping for a neck job now, but now everyone's saying, don't bother. Like, just do it all at once. Like, because my facialist says my neck is seven years older than my face. And it really is. And this is why I love her. She like, she says it the way it is. She tells it the way. Wait, but that's,

okay, because I feel like all your work, by the way, a huge fan of odd mom. Thank you. Because I watched it after I gave birth to my first son. And it was just, just hashtag relatable to me. I'm so glad. And I live on the upright side. I'm not that kind of upbri side. No, me neither. But I loved it so much. Like, hashtag bring it back. You know. I know. Everyone's kind of scattered to the wind, so it probably won't come back, but it lives on Peacock. How many seasons were there? Three. And why did it end when it did? Because it was too expensive to me. Because Bravo, Bravo makes reality shows, and this wasn't their business model. It was kind of a risk. Like Andy Cohen believed in it, and they owned the rights to my book, Momzilla. So they just went for it. But it's really not their business model. And they had to pay for set design and the unions. And they don't do that in the real stuff. stuff. Right. So it just costs so much more money. So that all happened because they love, Andy loved the book, Momzilla's. Well, no, they already own the book and I was meeting with Andy

about like talking about reality stuff. And I said, I'm never going to be in a reality show ever. He wanted you to just pit. Well, we were like meeting. But I said, why don't you just let me adapt the book that you guys already own NBC Universal bought it. And, you know, and he put in Laris spots his head of development. We developed it together and then that's how that got made. But it was a huge pivot for them. They were just trying it out. But it had a halo effect with the advertising for all of the reality stuff, but it's just so much more expensive to produce. I mean, we're building sets and getting permits and locations and all that. So that's not really their business model. So you've always kind of been obsessed with like the mom world of the Upper East Side. I would

say like since I became a mom. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. And when I first went to my agent about writing that book, she was like, why? Why do you want to write about moms? The moms aren't sexy. Moms are, that's a niche. And I said, it's a pretty big fucking niche. Like, what do you mean? niche. And I went behind her back and sent 60 pages to my editor. And she just like called my agent with the deal. And she was shocked. And then- And you still cut that agent in? No, she was like retiring and all that anyway. But just goes to. show. Don't write for the marketplace because they will tell you it's unsexy and whatever. Believe in yourself. Believe in your ideas. I believe the children are a future.

Wait, so Mom Zillaz. I have musical Tourette's, by the way, sorry. Musical Tourette. I will like burst into song in any home. So Mom Zillas was that the first like mom base and that you wrote when now you have, you have three kids. I have three. They're all grown up. But I wrote that one when I had two little babies. When you had two little babies. Yeah. I had three kids in four years. But now they're 23. Oh, almost 20 and 18. Oh my God. Yeah, they're big.

So, and my odd mom out, I looked it up today. It was 2015. It came out. Yeah. That's crazy. I know. Do you feel like it was like ahead of its time? Well, we predicted a lot of shit.

We predicted a global pandemic. We predicted billionaires going to space. There was none of that yet. And we predicted like a bomb cyclone weather event. And people are like, you guys are also the Simpsons. Wow. I need to rewatch it. But we were canceled before we could predict all.

all the other things. No. Yeah, I don't know. I guess I've always been a little bit Nostradelma C. But what about, what about like your experience as like a new mom or mom of two, like made you really want to write about it? So my husband, Harry, I was basically at that point like a stay-at-home mom. And I had been writing books with a writing partner. And at that point, I was just doing articles now on them but not really working. And I came home. I was on like the godfather day of my period with like flag of Japan was my bed sheet, like horsehead. And I was, you know, emotional and on edge. And I took my older one, Sadie, to a ballet class. And the moms all were friends, you know, like they all seemed to know each other. And I didn't, this is where the odd mom out part came. Because I was 28.

I was, we were in a fourth floor walk up. I was wearing like urban outfitters threw up on me. And other moms were in like head to toe Valentino or whatever. And I said, I sat, the ballet teacher, kids were running around. She said, let's all sit down in a circle. And I said, Cady, come sit down Indian style. Okay, no, I'm 51. Like this was something we grew up saying Indian style. I didn't know that that was canceled. And these moms were horrified. And she's like, it's crisscross applesau. You can't say that. So I started crying in the bathroom. I think it was just like hormones or maybe I was pregnant with Ivy, my second. I don't remember if it was period or pre. No, I was perioding because I remember my husband's like, you are surfing the Crimson Tide. Oh, Smokers Jelly. And I was like, this bitch said, like, we have to sit crisscross applesau. So that night we went to the Natural History Museum for like the family benefit. And we came upon the diorama of like the Lenape around the campfire. And he goes, look, sweetie, the Indians are sitting crisscross applesauce. And I was sort of laughing, crying. And he's like, no, seriously, I think this is your next war.

world. Because I always told them all the stories and the moms. There was a mom to be in my gyno's office with headphones on her uterus. And I was like, what the fuck are you doing? I didn't say that. I just said, what's this? She said, it's Mozart. It makes the fetus smarter. And I was like, you fucking cunt. So I knew I was in deep shit. And I'm from here. Right. Then I heard a little two-year-old blonde girl with pigtails like, knee-how, like speaking Mandarin. And the mom's like, my husband's at Goldman. He says it's the way of the future. And I was like, Jesus, I'm never going to survive this, like, mom world here. Yeah.

So I just started sort of taking notes by osmosis, like, seeping everything in. And then I wrote mom silas. I, like, vomited it out as catharsis, I guess. I need to audiobook that yet. Did you audiobook it? I don't think so. I think Ana Gass Dyer did it. Somebody else did it?

I think so. I only did my essay collection. Oh, okay. Interesting. Yeah, because her wasn't acting yet. Like, I started acting at 39. Wait, so tell me, so writing, like you always knew you were going to write? I thought I was going to write.

I wanted, when I was little, I wanted to be a magazine writer and be an editor at a magazine. Because magazines were a really big deal. You were in diapers. You don't remember. And I worked at Harper's Bazaar and interview magazine. So you got the cool gigs. Well, I was like a Xerox whore. I wasn't exactly Miranda Priestley.

I was like fetching coffees. But then they let me write. And then one thing led to. to another. I was at MTV for many years. Writing. Yeah, I was writing for MTV News docs, like documentaries in a writer's room, but I got paid shit and I got, it was called, I was called a permalancer. It was a freelancer, but like no benefits. So that sucked. And then my husband and I got married and I got pregnant and I showed up at MTV. I was like staffed show to show for sort of three to four month

chunks. And my boss, who by the way, was like 10 years older than me with the, you know, vintage class shirt, red hook, loft, messenger bag. And he said, you're pregnant? I said, yeah, clearly I was like really showing. And they never called me again. And then later, I ran into him at a concert and he's like, he's like, we really miss you. And I said, well, you kind of fired me. Like, you never rebooked me. And he goes, well, I just assume you'd be busy with the baby. And I said, what? Would you say that to guy? Like, what the fuck? And he's like, yeah, my B. Anyway, I hate everybody. But now that doesn't happen. That doesn't, yeah, they could, even if they felt that way, they couldn't. My daughter's 23. This was 23 years ago. Wow. Yeah. When MTV was making music videos and

docs. I think that the videos were already over. I think it was a lot of reality shows, but they had MTV News still and they had MTV News docs. So we had a show called Who Is. It was like any biography, but half hour for the ADD generation. And then we had a trend report called So Five Minutes ago. I mean, it was fun. I liked it, but it was not. I knew that it was, I wasn't, it wasn't going to take me to the next place. Was your dream to be like a Miranda Priestley? I don't know fashion really as editor in chief, but I liked cultural shit and I loved, I feel like I could have done something in the more of the features editorial type thing. But I don't know. My dream changed like 75 times. Did you, did you go to college? Yeah, I went to Yale. Oh, you went to Yale.

Yeah, so I was always acting. I was always in place. Oh, so you were doing acting. I was doing acting, but I didn't want to be an actress. Like, if somebody said, here, you can graduate and be a working actress, I would have done it. But I thought, you have to wait tables. You have to need it in your soul. You have to have it, like, clawing its way out of you. And that was not me. I wanted a job. Yeah. I like to work. I couldn't just wait between, you know, months for an audition or something like that was just wasn't my lifestyle time of your life of no no i knew i wouldn't it's just i don't know i have like a particular look and like the prettiest prettiest girl at yale was like hostessing and not getting jobs and she looked like a model so i was like well i'm fucked and i'm sure she had to like i'm sure like she had people wanting to bone her you know what i mean i wasn't harvey winstein's type you wanted more security i wanted security yeah I feel like everyone that ends up kind of in the entertainment industry in a way has wanted to act in some way. It's just like how much are you willing to go for it?

I wasn't at all. Right. I just want it wasn't, it was job security, but also being busy. I like being busy. Right. We'll be right back after the break. You're trying to feel a little bit more on top of everything, especially your finances, without over-consumer. complicating everything. Chime is really worth checking out. Chime is a financial technology company

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And we're back. So then you graduate Yale. Yeah. Then I went to magazine. Then I was in magazines, then MTV. Then when I had Sadie, oh no, when I had Sadie, my first book, the right address came out. It's about one co-op on Park Avenue and all the neighbors, all the people in it. Is it fiction?

Fiction. Yeah, novels. Then I did a bunch of novels, including Momzilla's. And then I hit a wall where I was like, I don't want to write novels anymore. I want to talk in my own voice. So I wrote a book called Sometimes I Feel Like a Nut. There was a collection of essays. And once I did that, that was the voice of Odd Mom Out.

That was how I knew that there was no going back. I didn't. I felt like I would hide behind characters. or try to tell a story that wasn't as real. And when you just, like, shit out stuff that feels like the balsamic reduction of you, you don't want the diluted ever again. And so from that point on, I just, I said, I'm going to, I just want to write more essay collections of my publisher at the time said, no, your, you know, your novels made more money. And I said, I don't care. I really, this was still, like, number three on the bestseller, but it's a different list. It was, like,

miscellaneous or something. It's like less money. Yeah. And they said, you know, Yeah, no. And then I said, well, can't I do, like, what actors say, one for you, one for them kind of thing? Like, one for me. I'll write a novel for you. Like, I'll shit out a novel. And then I'll write my essay collection. They're like, no, still no. We're not giving you a deal. Is that a real thing? Yeah, like, actors will do a big studio Marvel movie and then like a little... Indie. Indie. Indie. Yeah. So they said still no. And I decided, like, if I was going to be a whore, I would be a whore without my name on it. So I went to an ad agency to be a copy. So it felt like a huge, like, step backwards in my career because I was, I had books and bookstores and then I was writing literally like maxi-pad commercials.

Stop. So at Ogilvy. And then, but this is, this is my like big 2020 is hindsight thing for any young listeners who feel like down on their career. By taking this total detour that was four steps backwards, sometimes four steps backwards, there's a catapult. And the catapult was at this ad agency. I met a producer who wound up producing Obamom Out. And who I wouldn't have connected with had I not taken this job.

And did he get the ball rolling with the whole thing? I really want you to meet Andy Cohen. And my wife loves your books. And so we had hit it off. And he got me Obam Out, Daniel Rosenberg. So that was really wild. And like men just-slash-Men to Be. I mean, I don't know if I believe in faith.

You don't look like you would believe in it. person. But I guess it's just one of those weird life things where you're like, I don't know. The revolving door or the, what's it called, that movie was Gwyneth Peltrose? Slating doors. I do love that movie. Yeah. It's that. It's like, what would have happened if I wouldn't have gone to the ad agency? I don't know what would have. I don't think I, there was any other avenue to me acting. That's for sure. And then was there a moment where they considered that you wouldn't play? No, no, because Andy really wanted it to be like originally reality style. He was saying, I want a version of you. I want Larry David on the Upper East Side,

basically in Mom World. And so that's not like a big acting stretch. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's like easy. So it was basically me, but when I was 28. Was that fun for you to be acting? Yes. But again, it wasn't like a big challenge. It was me. Right. This movie influenced, my new one, is totally different from me. So that was a little bit. Right. But I know all these people. So with influence, I mean, right, it is not you at all. But that's also not a stretch. But it didn't seem, right. So I was going to say, like, in the trailer, I think I was like, oh, my God.

It's jarring. You know. It's a blonde. Right. It's jarring. But I think once the movie starts and you get to know kind of these other layers of this, like, crazy mom influencer, and you're like, oh, she's like a good person or, like, she cares about people. Or, you know, like, I kind of.

forgot who you are in real life. You know what I mean? Okay, that's good. And it was doing my job. And it wasn't giving a stretch. Like you were, you were Zaniel. Well, thank you. How was the accent getting that Long Island accent? I think I just, I mean, 51 years of hearing it somehow every day. Wait, you're hearing in Manhattan. Yeah, like I just, no, not my family, but just you just hear it around. Yeah. And we had a lot of guys on the crew who were from Long Island. Like it wasn't, didn't feel like a big challenge. Yeah. I'm also kind of good. accents because my mom's French and she speaks four languages and they would always do accents around the house. Yeah. But I don't know. That was all the S&L hair team. Brittany Hartman,

who makes all the wigs for S&L and Corinne Gonzalez Navani, who did my hair. They're all the SNL girls. They were on hiatus for the summer. So they did that. It was like a really major wig. But it didn't, when you looked in the mirror with the blonde wig for the first time. I started laughing. I was like, who the fuck is this? I ran into a friend of 40 years. and she didn't know who I was. Did not know who I was. Wait, on the street, while filming? Yes, I went up to her and was like, hi, Tara.

And she just stared at me blankly. And I was like, it's Jill. She had no idea. And I was dressed like a whore. And did you have a spray tan? Okay, so that's where gauntlets were thrown. Basically, Charles, my makeup artist, who's amazing, said, could you please get a spray tan?

We will save a lot of time. And I just basically was like, I'd rather eat my spleen with saracha sauce. Never happening. slide down a slide of razor blades naked and land in a pool of vodka. Like, it is so not happening. Like, you're just going to have to fucking crack out the bronzer. Wait, why were you against like, like, because then you're stuck with it on the weekends. Like, you don't like the way it looks. No, I want to, it's like makeup and then you wash your fucking face. I don't want it staying on there. Have you done it before? No. You would hate the feeling then. I would, like, I don't mind that I'm ass white.

I know who I am. I'm not like trying to be. Britney Spears. But I think it's like hearing you think what it's going to feel like, and then if you got it done, me knowing what it feels like, I'm just like, wow, you really would hate it. I would hate it. Like when you have to sit with it and it just like stinks and it's sticky. So you wouldn't do it. Never. So he did it every day. Yeah, I had base. I had the whole, I was shellacked. I was beaten down. Did it tickle you to bronze on up in real life? No, I didn't like it. I, it. There wasn't even a little part of me that was like, you know, when actors, you hear actors being like, I got to play, I got to be this other person and inhabit them.

I'm not like a real craftsman. I don't give a shit about like the. Storyteller. I'm not a storyteller. I love when they're like, as an artist, as an artist, I just want to say, no, I just was like playing around. Can you do the next one about actors and make fun of them? You know, we got so lucky because I hate assholes. I have a no asshole policy.

And I just can't deal with like a lot of really actory actors. And we didn't have auditions except for the kids. It was all offer only. So luckily by two degrees of Kevin Bacon, I got like approval. Because when I hate someone, we just say red wedding. They're dead to us. If they're difficult, if whatever, red wedding, goodbye. So it's a Game of Thrones reference.

Did you not watch that? No, I didn't. You saw it? Oh my God. You're clocking me. I'm like, yeah, I recognize. I recognize. Red Wedding is the most violent, brutal episode.

But you know what else we're clocking? Me thinking like, who do you hate? I hate everybody. Like, I literally hate most people. But that's okay, because I love the people I love. Right, because you had on the girls I love, I had them at one of my shows, Andrea Lopez and Anna. Yeah, she's great, Roisman.

And Anna Royceman, you had, Jessica Capshaw. Yeah, and Christine Taylor was in Audma Mount. She played Abby Elliott's sister. Abby was. busy shooting like a huge budget thing so she couldn't do it. But I'm lucky. I've had very good experiences. And Jason Biggs and Jenny Mullin were in it who just all announced their divorce today. And so I just saw them today and I love that he played a robber. Yeah. He was really, really funny. He was. I was like put him back, put him back on our screens. I know. I feel like he is so talented and a lot of

That was improv. And Jenny, too, is like just so funny and hysterical. That's so fun that you get to just work with the people that you like. I know. That's the only way to do it because life's too sure you can't have dicks around. So how did you decide to make influence? So originally it was supposed to be a show, a half hour show. I was thinking that, by the way.

I was like, could this have also been a show? I mean, I thought so. Yeah. It was sold to IFC. and then we went through drafts and for months. And then it was ready to go. I got like all the good news that we were being Greenland. And then the next day, all my executives were fired.

Like four people lost their jobs. It was so bummed. I was so bummed because I had flown to L.A. And we had like a big celebration dinner at Moza, which I love. And I really like connected with these people. I mean, I bonded with them when I pitched it. But then we were like, let's make this thing. And then we were, you know, I think I went out there.

few times, shakhand. So I was devastated. And then I was cast in- Wait, if they're fired, that means that it's not happening. No, it's like, no new person is going to inherit the old guy's shit. They're like, I want my own freshly. Oh my God. So I was, I mean, I was upset for them losing their jobs, but I also, that was the end of this. Right. So then I got cast in a movie, like a little cameo part for three days in the Hamptons. And I, the director and I hit it off and she's a writer too. And she said, you know, I've always wanted to write about the Upper East Side. Would you ever want to collaborate on something. And I said, well, I have this script. Actually, Jenny Connor, flashback, Jenny Connor, who is the showrunner of girls and nobody wants this. She's an old friend.

And we went out to lunch in Brooklyn. And she's like, I think this is a feature. And I thought, like, huh, all right, I kind of stored that away. And then when Carol wanted to write together, I said, I have this script. Let me give it to you. And let me know if you think it could be a movie and we could flesh it out, whatever. So she created Gary. She and her husband created Gary. And I didn't that he wasn't in my pilot wait so you met with jenny and she said I think it could be a feature a feature and then I met this director who wanted to write together yeah I gave her this my pilot the 30 minute yeah yeah and she came up with ideas to make it flesh it out into a feature into a movie yeah oh my god so it was really like not the first choice I wanted to do a show that's more my experience yeah

but it turned out really fun no it is really fun and it's an hour and a half it's like it's 88 minutes It's less than that. It's good for moms. You were saying ADD culture with a 30-minute MTV, and like when I see 88 minutes, I'm happy. Yeah, I'm happy. When I see a Scorsese, you know, three-hour. I get really tired at night. No, I know.

It's hard. Yeah. It's hard. So what made you to, like, originally write about the influencer culture? Oh. Which I find with kind of being a mom. She's a mom and she's an influencer, but. Yeah.

I had this character from, I was like, playing around on Instagram during COVID and I had the character in mind, but there was something about this moment that felt very ripe for the mocking, like the self-promotion and the selling stuff and the discount codes and the whole thing felt, you know, very fabulous. Like there was a fabulosity being pushed everywhere and the patina of, you know, filters and wealth and all these things that voyeuristically people want that keyhole into their lives. And everyone is. doing it. I mean, it's so many, I don't follow really influencers. And I just sort of follow like media companies and I don't know, meme people like that make memes. You love memes. You do love

memes. I love a meme. But my daughters follow some influencers. And but it's not, they're not influenced by them per se. It's more it's aspirational sometimes with their lives and their chefs and things. Yeah. But they would say like, mom, you would vomit. Look at this. Look at this private jet thing. Look at this. And so we'll have a laugh. But I, I, I, I, I, I, definitely think there's a pernicious side. I personally get the good stuff. I like seeing your kids grow up. I like seeing funny memes. I like, like-minded political people to make me feel like the world's going to be okay. Whatever it is, I have like nooks of Instagram that feel cozy to me and I block out everything else. So if it like a get ready with me comes on your for you page, your it doesn't. It doesn't. It wouldn't come to me because it knows that I only want laughing babies.

Majong and heated rivalry. Heated rivalry. I mean. The way that took over my for you page at the time it came out. I stayed up with my daughter, Ivy, till like three in the morning. Wait, you watch it with your daughter? Yeah, we binged it. Stop.

We're very close. Like, we don't get cringe about sex. If I watch that with my parents, we'll certainly my dad. Yeah. But we were just like sitting there eating popcorn while they're buffucking. I watch it every time my husband wasn't home. And then I think for like the finale was home. And I was like, and I don't.

know why I assumed like I couldn't watch it with him. And he was, he was totally fine. Watch it. You're looking at me. No, my husband. My husband's like totally not homophobic at all. But I don't know that he could have handled. I don't know. Maybe he could have. No, that's what my husband said. He was like, do you think I'm, did you think I was a homophobic? I was like, no, I thought you would be. Oh, I brought my husband to a gay bar on our first date. Like literally, I was like, my friends are all at this bar. You're coming. I think I was trying to test him to make sure he wasn't homophobic because I. Oh, I thought you were going to say that he wasn't gay. No, no, no, that he was like comfortable enough.

Yeah. You know, and he is. Oh, God, that's funny. But episode five, I mean, that wasn't even, that's like an emotional thing. I know, that was emotional. I could, like, straight up. Yeah, I loved it so much. Can't wait for season two, huh?

I don't know. I haven't read the book, so I don't know what happens. Like, I don't know trouble in paradise. I don't want to read the book. I want to see them. Yeah, I want to see them. Yeah. We'll be right back after the break.

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you to find your perfect pair of classic clogs. And we're back. So we were trying to say before and I think I cut you off when I was telling you how Danielle has like heart. and depth and and more to her. You were, you were starting to say something that it made you. Oh, I think I was thanking you for saying that because that's sort of the goal because that's what I went through in real life, meeting some women who I found to be what I call BFTJ, bad for the juice, very flashy, fading into stereotypes logos everywhere. Yes.

And I was just thinking, this is not how I was raised. This is not my values. And I'm not going to like these people. And guess what? They were great mothers. They're nice. And I did like them in the end. Yeah.

It is true. I mean, my kid goes to like a, you know, a private juror school. And then at first you're like, how am I fucking never. And then it's like they're nice. They're nice. And most importantly, they love their kids. They love their kids. Yeah.

So, you know, maybe we don't see eye to eye on certain parenting choices or values. but I just feel like ultimately they're good people. Right. So is that like the message kind of? I mean, I didn't want to like smash people over the head with like a morals mallet. But I definitely wanted to show that there's more to these people sometimes. And you really did. I also really want to try to get at the fact that Instagram there's a dichotomy between what they're posting

and what is going on when they're alone on their bed. Right. And that's the key. And that's why we partnered with Instagram to get all the graphics and all the fonts and everything. Those are all, that's all their user interface. Oh. And so you see the divergence between, you know, all the cute little things she's posting and then she's lying alone in her bed, like miserable looking at her old ring. So what's your relationship like with social media?

Like I think I'm pretty healthy. Yeah. I really, I know people who say they got sucked down a rabbit hole or they feel bad about themselves and they're depressed. And I was very vigilant about this with, I have a son and two daughters. And my girls, especially with body dysmorphia, I really didn't want them to. And so I would, as they came of age, I remember saying like, this is body tuned. Look how this window is warped. This is not real.

And they totally get that now. They get it. Yeah, they get it. And their school, they went to a girl's school, Chapin that has, it's very like female empowerment. They had, I thought at the time this was excessive, they had a three-day social media, like, workshop thing. And I realize now, like, wow, that was so great because they were scared about, like they don't send nudes. There was this show, like the Cheetah Girls are selling on Nickelodeon

a girl, like, sent her tits to some guy. There was some revenge porn something. I think my kids got lucky because they were too young for the like really bad shit to go down. There was some at a private school, a senior that there was some revenge porn thing. So there were the cautionary tales to scare the shit out of my kids that are then taught in these, in these workshops. Wait, so your kids. you stayed in the city with three kids. Yeah. All the way. Okay.

Now you've got to convince me of that of staying in the city. It's the best thing you can ever do. You can do it with two or three kids. You don't have to move to the burbs. No. So tell me. Oh my God. So never called your name like a.

I have suburban panic disorder. I created it and diagnosed myself with it. I don't drive. I am a child of the streets of New York. You literally born on the upper side? Born in New York Hospital and will hopefully die. in my bed here or whatever. I love New York.

I couldn't live anywhere else. I would say that the suburban kids that my kids met at camp are way faster. They sucked a dick first. They were doing drugs first. They were old. My kids tell me everything. They were way faster. Really?

Yeah, because they're bored. They're bored. My kids are never bored. They're in New York City. You growing up in New York City, you didn't do things early? I did. I did not. Really?

No. I snuck. into nightclubs at 13. Okay. But I wasn't like anorexic or doing coke or banging. Like I was actually a good girl. I was just in places I was not supposed to be. But I wasn't drinking. I just wanted to be dancing with like cool club kids. So you think, yeah, no, that that, it makes sense that in the suburbs you get bored and you do the things. Yeah. But city kids are more like exposed. They have been the bottle now. It's like handies. Like you are blowing people at 13 in some of these places. Wait, I cannot. I mean, someone just show me today.

I think my interior designer showed me, and she's like from the on Long Island. Yeah. Showed me someone from the daughter's class like in a bra, TikTok king. Yeah. And I fucking 12. Yeah. And I'm like, I wouldn't do that now. There was like a 12 or actually she was 13 giving bulimia lessons in Long Island to a group of

girls. Like my girls are like fonts of knowledge and repositories for all the teen gossip. And they're like, mom, it's getting faster and faster. I mean, I don't know how much more we can take. But, you know, it's bad. up in the movie that I made a note of. Obvi, I booked a Zazarian. I'm not an animal.

Yeah. Which is another like, that was the too posh to push era. There was a spate of elective Cs. Yeah. And people definitely when I had badge, mine were all vage, all three.

And it was terrible. Like, I'm not going to lie to you. I wish I'd gotten an elective C. I begged for one and my doctor said no. Really? Yes. She's like, that's crazy. You don't slice and dice.

just because you don't want to like stretch out your box. But I had a stage four apisiotomy. Funny that you call your box. Have you always? Always. Really? My best friends from high school. Yeah, like we call eating out Chow Box.

But anyway, we, by the way, we went on a road trip in Cape Fear, North Carolina in the 90s. And we saw a fried chicken place called Chow Box. And we squeezed off the road, like, across four lanes of traffic and ran in and we're like, do you sell T-shirts? He's like, all the Yankees asked me that. Oh, my God. So your box is cute. Did you teach that to your girl? It wasn't. Oh, yeah. We all say box. Oh, you all say box. But my box was pulverized in birth. After your kids. The first one, the first one. I had a stage four apiatomy. I had a vaginous. It was one big hole. So did. Did you do what Danielle did? Yeah. You did. Yeah, that's how I learned about it. You get like raped by a lightsaber. So it's, oh, so it's not that crazy. Are you awake? You're awake, yeah. Oh. Yeah. There's like numbing and then there's a little you can do. You can do. pro knox. Wait, I thought it was way more intense than that. Not mine. Because, okay, so the thing about

the movie that cracked me up was that, like, I know a lot of things are exaggerated. Yeah. But a lot of things aren't. No, I know. Which is crazy. The Dog Walker thing is real. The Wolftank Clan and the village apparently is, like, more expensive than Yuki. And they come to you, your house and look around and they interview you to see if they'll accept your dog. Wait, that was wild, the dog walker. There's a whole dog underworld in New York. It's a subculture of dog-obsessed people who do not, if you let crack a can of Alpo, you are a shit dog mom. Like they get locovore, seed to anus food dropped off, like caterer it.

No, I shit you not. You can't make this up. I have a god dog. And there are like these lesbian breeders. I have a god dog. I have a god dog. What does I mean? The testimony for the lesbian breeders in Minnesota that have a seven-year wait list.

to give to give the that my friend should get the dog and I talked for 90 minutes on the phone to them and so she's like you're the godmother of this dog like I wouldn't have the dog if it wasn't for you you're not you don't have a dog no you're not a dog person no are you a cat person no I'm allergic to animals I like safari like where they're over there and I get to wave from the band and I loved Gwyneth Paltrow she's so good in she was so great long island accent right yes and I mean old Jericho. She came back. She was in Marty Supreme.

Yep. And now she's doing strangers. She's doing, right. She's going to be star. Yeah. Did you read it? I love it. I'm friends with Bill.

Oh my God. So good. Our kids are in class. We're in school together. Oh. I read it too. It was so good. And when it's perfect.

And she was her first choice. Perfect. Perfect. She knows the world. That happened so quickly. What do you think about that, by the way, as a writer like, today, I feel like book to movie? Yeah, the pipeline is fast.

But only if you're a crazy bestseller like that. That's like runaway bestseller. All my books sold to movies and none were made. Like Bell's book was so far and away. It was New York Times with seller for five months. It's still going. So when you're a juggernaut like that, then you'll get made because they know they have IP that's really worth something.

Yeah. But they're still buying books left and right, but they buy five times as many as they intend to produce. So they buy them and then what do they do with them? They try to adapt them or it'll languish and evolve somewhere. But normally the fee is very low. Like my books were optioned for like $5,000 or $10,000. And then they're not made.

You get only really make money when they make the movie. Oh, got you. Then you get like your chunk. I feel like today, like if you don't have like you said like an IEP, whether it's like a book or a play or a real life story, like it's so much harder to like make something. I think you're right. I think people are so risk averse now. They wanted to come built it with a building audience.

That's right, because that's them protecting their ass as a development person to say, oh, look, I'm not just going out on limb. This has a following built in. Right. But they're pussies because there's, of course, great ideas that are not that. It's just so dumb. I hate everybody. Tell me about what the wildest thing that you witnessed an Upper East Side mom do. Was it the headphones on the belly with the Mozart?

Well, a lot of people have like Anner. Alexia coaches to just like... Like for real? Yeah. Okay. And then let's see what else. The craziest thing. Well, I guess like the really...

It's sort of a bigger picture thing rather than like specifics. But I think some people can't see the forest through the trees in terms of what their end goal is for their kids. So they're sort of helicoptering because they want them to go to a good college, let's say. But so it's not one thing. It's just the way that they... they see the children as this vicarious extension of themselves. It's kind of pathetic.

No, it's like, why have kids? I don't know. That was dressed me out. How did you adapt yourself being like, out of my amount to like you living here all these years? Your kids growing up in it. Like you just like did your own thing. We keep our head down. We do our own fucking thing.

And whenever those questions came. Where are you going to school? Were you saying them to camp? Right. I just, well, no, more from my kids. Why do you not have red bottoms on your shoes? like the other moms. Why don't we go to the Hamptons? You know, I was like, we do our own thing. And I don't need red bottoms on my shoes. And I don't like the Hamptons for us. Like, we like to

travel, whatever it is. I just shut it down. I said, we do different things differently. I mean, it is crazy. Like, my kid goes to school and it's like they all talk about where they're going on vacation. Well, that's, that's like our, that was really the genesis of influenced because Ivy said, where are we going on vacation? And I said, excuse me, like for Christmas. I said, don't just assume we're going on vacation. And she said, well, everyone in school is asking where we're going. And I said, well, tell them that not everyone can afford to go and that's not right. And then she left and I looked at Harry and said, where are we going on vacation?

So we went to Amsterdam and we were in the Anne Frank House on January 4th of 2020, right before the pandemic. And I'm convinced that that's why we had an easy pandemic with three teenagers is because they had just been there. So it just put everything in perspective. They just saw Anne Frank's house. So I was making fun of some of the Danielle's who are like, this is a nightmare. I mean, hell.

You know, because it was not hell. You know where that wouldn't happen and where kids wouldn't ask where the other kid is going on vacation? Public school. No shit. I know. That would never happen. That would never happen.

I said to my kids always from the beginning, never ask someone where they're going on vacation. That's like rule number one. I don't do it. Yeah. I mean, maybe if. it's among like peers that you know we're always going on vacation, but I just think it's like assumptive. Did you ever live in L.A. for any period of time? I don't drive. I'm going tomorrow at 6 a.m.

And I will be Ubering everywhere. Do you not have a license? I have a license because my family did a heroin style intervention. They all sat around me in a semi-circle. And I came downstairs and they're all sitting there and we're like, have a seat. We think it's selfish that you don't drive. Because every time we travel. I'm like, someone take me to Starbucks. And my parents, my husband, all gathered around and said, you like pretend you're this strong, independent woman, but you always need rides and we're sick of it. So they made me get a license at 37 with a high school football coach who was like not working in the summer and was my teacher. And then I got my license and I basically barely drive since. Like I've, that was 15 years ago. But did you do okay in the classes? And did you pass the first set?

Yeah, I passed the first test, but I backed over a pink flamingo lawn ornament. And this is an episode of Audma'Amount. Wait, you didn't take you the test in the city? I took it in Yonkers. And my driving instructor handed the DMV person a Dunkin' Donuts Munchkins box with $500 in it. So I got it out of a bribe. I didn't know I was bribing, but the guy bribed on my behalf. Did you have to pay him back the $500?

We think he like, basically, the package that we bought, was like, all you can eat lessons. So he wanted me to just fucking get my license. So he'd be done. You know, he doesn't want to give me 20 more hours. So that's, it says like, guaranteed your license. I passed by bribe. Amy Sedaris played my DMV person in the show.

And you can we watch it. It's on peacock. It's on peacock guys. And influence, where is that coming out? It's in theaters. And then July 10th, it will be on demand wherever movies are streamed. Oh. Yeah.

That's fun. You can pre-order on Apple, I think, next week. That's exciting. Everybody should really watch it. It's so fun. It's so entertaining. It's so good. And you forget about like the dumpster fire of the world.

Right. Like, right? You just tune out. It's like silly. Which is what you want. It's silly fun. You talked about, you went on Drew Barrymore. Yes.

Your sister-in-law. Yes. Outlaw. Outlaw. Or I was going to say ex-stor- She's divorced for my brother. Right. And I mean, you guys were really sweet.

but you also talk, or she talked about how she's so inspired by you because like you make your own things happen. That's so nice. Yeah. And right? She said that like. I don't remember. I was sort of like in a day. Well, there's like 50 bazillion lights and you're in this huge studio.

I get, I get it. You're definitely like, what just happened? What did I say? So she said that. She said that you create like your stuff that you want to do and that you've always kind of done that. Yeah. You don't wait to like. And you were kind of talking about the before with the acting.

Like that's why you don't want to do. Really, I would say I don't have a rulebook, really, because I think if you follow a rulebook, I don't know, the path is not linear. So even I'm a shit advice giver, I guess, because I just say like, be you, like do you and double down on what you're offering. Because if someone said to me, how do I become an actress? Like, I have no fucking idea. I started 39.

Do you know what I mean? Like I don't have a, like a traditional path in any of the shit I've done. Would you audition now? I would if I. really liked it. I really just like doing my own shit. Yeah. But I like when something was just offered to me and fell in my lap, then I, if I wasn't doing anything, I did it. Like bad mom's Christmas. I did like a fun cameo in Atlanta. I got to explore Atlanta and they hired me to do the DVD extras. I was in the movie in like one day and I'm in that. My scene was with Susan Sarandon and Catherine Hahn. Love Catherine Hahn. And then they hired me to do the DVD extras to stay. And I'm in that. And then they hired me to do the DVD extras to stay. And I'm in that. I'm in that. I'm in that. And I'm in that. And then they hired me to do the DVD extras to stay. And, and like do behind the scenes for the DVDs. That's how old that movie is. No, that's crazy that you're saying that.

Yeah, it's like eight years, eight or ten years ago. Yeah. So what kind of mom were you with your kids, like seeing all these other moms we were talking about, were you like a sleep training? I did sleep training. You did?

Yes. Were you like a scheduled nap? Like, what was your vibe? We were very, we were very like fast and loose. Like chill? We were very chill. Yeah. I did sleep train as babies, though.

like at 10 weeks or 12 pounds, whichever it was first, because I didn't have a baby nurse and nannies and all that. Like I was the one getting up and I was fucking tired. So I don't know. I didn't screw them up. So you were- People think it's mean to fervorize, but whatever. So what do you think about all like mom bloggers and all the methods and all the things? I think you have to do what works for you.

Tune out the noise and just follow your own gut. Like some people read parenting books because they need guidance because they had shitty childhoods. I am so lucky, hashtag blessed. I had a great childhood, so I just have instincts to replicate it. Right. That it is. I mean, it does work that way. Like when you kind of love the way that you were raised.

Yeah, I love it. My dad did not have that. His father never said, I love you. He never said I'm proud of you. And so he was like, I'm just going to do the opposite. And so we were always told how awesome we were and how loved we were. And I mean, I'm very lucky. Are all of your kids out of the house?

Yeah. My oldest is moving back. She's graduating college next week. So she's moving back with you until she... Until she, like, figures out job sitch and all that. She's taking the summer off. Do you want her to, like, stay for years and years? I lived at home till 24. Yeah. And I'm living at home now. Harry and I are renovating. And so we're living with my mom. Oh, really? Yeah. How's that? It's great. It's so, it's weird because I live there till 24. So it's a lot of the same doorman, you know, the unions in New York. Like, you are there in that job till you are in the coffee.

And you like go. I was like, hi, I'm back. You get your coffee in the morning. I get the coffee in the morning in my schlepper sweats, whatever. And then there's a gym in the basement. I mean, it's bizarre. Like, it is a little throwbacky, but it's just still some time. Oh my God.

Make a show about that. Yeah. Hi. Going to live with your mom. The renovation. She's so cool. You know, Dorman are a whole thing because, like, I feel like people that follow me that don't, that are bird people and have never, I don't know. And it sounds like they're aliens, but they don't get the reference as much.

Yeah. First of all, like, there are days that I love my doorman. There are days where, like, I don't want to small talk right now. Do you have an elevator man? No, I would love an elevator man because I don't like elevators. No, I don't know. Because then you have to talk the whole elevator. Oh, my God.

It's the weather. It's the, you know. Sometimes I just want to like, that could make me, like, there were days where I told my husband, like, just for this, I would move to the burbs for not having, like, I love them. But there's sometimes you don't want to want to. You don't want to talk. Yeah. And like you feel like you kind of have to. or with neighbors or whatever.

Okay, we're going to play yay or nay to these influencer trends. Okay. Get ready with me. Okay, this is a specific kind of get ready with me. I'm going to say nay to everything. Okay, but this is a specific kind of get ready with me. It's a get ready with me putting on the concealer,

but you're telling a life story. Nay. Okay. What do you think of those? I don't even see them, but that sounds awful. I'm very, everyone's insufferable. So, by the way, just you know, it's a rule. You can't tell a story without putting on,

concealer at the same time. No, that sounds ridiculous. Setting up a tripod for when you wake up so you can abs the smurfly not. Hateful. ASMR. Okay, there is one that I like. Joe CB on YouTube. She does ASMR. Well, yeah. So my daughter's what we watch, she does, she's a really relaxing voice and she like, tinks puts the nails on the glass bottles. Oh, my next one was nail tapping on products. Yeah, she, it's not really product. Yeah, I guess. But she would like full, like, she has a pretty glass, old glass carafe, and she'll do it on that and then, like, put rose water. Okay, so you like ASMR and nail tapping? Yeah, but not on Instagram.

Like, this was a YouTube video, and she pretends that she's, like, brushing your hair and stuff. I need to see. Brushing our hair? Yes. Like, she'll take a brush. And then she'll go like this and you're like, oh, I'm relaxed now. I fall asleep after five minutes. No.

Yeah, it's like someone cracked one of those. things and you just collapse. Oh my God, that's so funny. Well, thank you so much for coming. This was so fun. Thank you. You're so awesome. When did you say was a July 10th on demand? July 10th on demand and right now in theaters. Yes. And you can go to influencedmovie.com for all the info. For all the info. 12 cities nationwide. Tap away. Tapity tap. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Not Skinny but Not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny but Not Fat. Subscribe to the podcast. We don't miss any episode. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcasts and write a little review.

If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocheroo. Thank you guys so much for listening, and I'll see you next Tuesday. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.