Not Skinny But Not Fat - Kaitlyn Bristowe on Her Exes, Chris Harrison, Anxiety & Bachelor Nation

Episode Date: January 31, 2023

This week we have Bachelorette extraordinaire Kaitlyn Bristowe! We dish on her seasons, life with Jason, talking to Chris Harrison, not texting Nick Viall, anxiety meds, getting fired as a host - which she didn't see coming at all - and more.   Produced by Dear Media This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a Dear Media production. A Dear Media Original podcast. What's up, you guys? We're back. That we are. Back to the Beach with Kristen and Stephen is back for season two. And honestly, guys, I think we've got something even more unpredictable than season one. We've got the new cast members. We've got the old cast members. And we've got some opportunist.

Oh, God. But don't worry, you guys. We're going to break it all down. And we're going to do it with some major guests this season. Yeah, so tune in. every Tuesday for season two of Back to the Beach. A Dear Media Original. This is Amanda Hirsch from the Not Skinny but Not Fat podcast.

You might know me from Not Skinny Bonifut on Instagram where I spend my time talking about reality TV, celebrities, everything happening and pop culture. I also talk to some of our favorite celebs and reality TV stars. We talk about what's going on. Tune in every Tuesday and just feel like you're talking about. with your best friends in your living room. Okay, fine. I'll do an introduction.

Okay, fine. Twist my arm. Okay, Caitlin, fucking Bristow is on the podcast. I'm so excited. I just told you that I was a viny, do you call them? Or vinoes. Wow. A true vino over here not knowing how to pronounce it.

Way to humble me. Wait, it's off the vine. So it's winos? No, it's vinos. Oh, so I said it. I get, you said viny's. Oh, okay.

But that's okay. You can honestly call whatever you want to be. I'm here for it. Okay. So I listened. I told you like, I used to listen to off the vine and armchair expert. I'm so flattered.

Those were my two. Yeah. Until, you know, we started a podcast and like, you can't imagine listening. to more than... Is it because why... I don't know. It makes no sense

because I don't really listen to my own either. I don't listen to my own but I'll tell you why I can't listen other podcasts is because then I play the comparison game and I have imposter syndrome.

Oh. And I go, am I not good enough to be podcasting? And I don't want to go down that spiral. Really? No, I don't have that. Oh, yeah. Just kidding me either.

I get that with following people on Instagram that do similar things to what I do. Same. I can follow model celebrities, influencers that are like different. But following like a pop culture account,

then I'm like, what if your thoughts will become my thoughts by accident? You know how like the internet like copies each other, but like it's not really copying because everyone does the same thing? Yes, because I just posted a TikTok where I was doing that, Yes, you can hold my hand if you want to. Is that a new thing?

Maybe. But I copied it off of girl. And I like did this. What's the girl? I forget. her name but she's a real inspiration to me she's a viny wait is her name girl no i'm gonna look it up but when i was doing it i was inspired by her because wait isn't that the thing about tic-tac though you use other people's things okay and then so i did it oh shoot i can't i'm editing a video and i'm way too

far in to do this oh my god you can't exit it now no okay but a girl commented on my video and she was like you're trying way too hard to be blah blah blah the girl that i got the information from. And I was like, well, isn't that what TikTok is? Aren't we all just stealing each other shit? The girl I got the information from. Yeah. You're showing your age, Caitlin, with the information. I did. I don't know. Is it like remixing? What do they call it on TikTok?

Look, I didn't even know what a get ready with me was. I thought it was like a GRW. I thought it was a grown woman. I thought that's what that stood for. And I was like, yeah, grown woman with me. No, I can't. I have you done one? So I did one for. Oh my God. For the first time yesterday. As a joker for realsies. Joke. And I literally said at the end, welcome to the most, like, there was no point to this TikTok. I did not even teach you anything. I said dumb stuff. And I didn't even get ready with you. I literally put on like one coat of mascara and lip gloss in that whole video. And it was a complete fail. And I felt like I was 37 years old trying to be 22 year old Alex Earl. Oh my God. Tell me about this Alex Searle. I, okay, so I'm not on TikTok. Okay. What? What? I know. I'm the old. old person that's like, I'm not

downloading another app. I respect that. I know, but like, I keep on being a little tempting and something brings me out of it. I can't do it. I don't know how to, if you showed me the app, like, I don't even know. Do you, okay, so let's say it's two people people. Does it do it for you? We're like, it goes to the. No, it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work. But I think your podcast clips would be

I know. Literally my agent is like, like, I'll post the clips. I'm like, I know, but here's how I feel. First of all, I, I started this Instagram and my podcast with, like, such passion, dedication. I'm not going to have fast. I'm going to open it because I'm like, I should be on there. I don't feel like I need to. That's why you've done so well is because you can tell you're passionate about it.

Yeah. And you've committed to it. But you got to think of it as TikTok just being another platform for you to have. How many platforms do you need? You know what? The possibilities are really endless because that's money in your pocket. That's how you feel. It's like a business thing.

you think? Yeah. Well, TikTok for me is really fun. I feel like on Instagram, I do show my personality in TikTok. I've usually just been copying other people's stuff. But the get ready with me, I'm like, wait, I can do get ready with me, but make it my own get ready with me where I'm like not trying so hard. And I'm like, people don't really care about how I'm getting ready. They care to see my quirkiness. And that's what comes out. They don't care what. Tell me about this Alex Earle phenomenon. I No shade against her I don't get it

I don't get no but that's why you're By the way you're here to explain it to me So you better get it Okay well I get okay I guess it's because I'm 37 Right If I was 22 I would get it Because she's living a dream

People are like she's so relatable Wait but aren't we past Worshiping people living dreams Aren't we in a stage of That's why I'm a little confused about her Because she's one She's beautiful beautiful and she's sweet and very rich yeah and so people like she's so relatable and I'm like

relatable to me is like picking my nose in your car at a red light like relatable to me is not showing up on a private jet yeah to like your Christmas party I wonder is it she invented the GRWN grown woman while you're talking is that true oh oh did she I don't know while you're like telling a story she's unrelated to the thing she's really good at that she's really good good at that but I don't know because I just started I don't even follow her I don't think but I just started getting fed her yes getting fed she is being spoon fed to me down my throat I know that's what I don't like about the TikToks is like I don't want you telling me but it's funny I told my sister yesterday we were in the car she was coming with me to like a stylist appointment and we were just talking

about this Alex Earl thing by the way I was a thousand years old being like what's this Elex earl I'm like a leeks I made her more unique and pronouncing agent. Anyway, so my sister was like, she was at Haley's event. She was here. She was there. And I was telling my sister, like, it's really flattering when all these people want you. Yeah. But I was trying to explain to her how the industry works were like, the people that want her don't necessarily want her because they love her. They want her because she's hot right now. Totally. So everyone's, right? And then get to the stylist's appointment. I'm like, there was like an assistant. There was something. And her name was Alex. But with an eye. So I was like, oh my God, we were just

talking about Aleeks, Earl. Eliex. And. And she was, she didn't like it. I was like, that's crazy. A leaks and a leaks. And so they were like, oh my God, all the stylists are fighting over her right now. Like in Mave, she, Maeve dressed her. Mave Riley, who used to do a Haley Bieber. Okay.

She won, like, the stylist battle. Okay. But basically these girls were like, we're not that into her. We were just fighting over her because, so my sister was like, it's exactly what you said in the car. It's like, everyone wants a piece of you once you're a hot commodity. Yeah. So it's like flattering, but it's also. So, like, it's you're being kind of used.

I'm worried for her, to be honest with you. About young people getting into it. Well, because I'm like, man, if that happened to me at 22 and you peak like that. Yeah, that's crazy. But you don't have that understanding of that people are just using you. You're like, oh, I'm actually it right now. Right. And it's scary.

I always think I'm like, I'm on the other side. I'm like, but why? What do they want for me? Same. I don't trust anyone. I'm dated. I'm okay but let's get to you because that's why we're here okay tell me okay okay fine so really big fan I told you I tried to have you on my podcast for years it's why did it take this long was I say no

I don't know Caitlin that's so no you never no you never said okay good because I think there was once where it was going to happen and then I was like you weren't doing zooms and then it was kind of like oh I did go through a no zoom face yeah and then listen it finally happened well the divine timing is what I Yeah, I mean, timing is a really important thing. Yeah. I listen to your podcast, watch your season, obviously ship you and Jason. That's nice. That's nice.

That's really nice. And, okay, so you're saying you wouldn't want to, you wouldn't have wanted to be 22. What age did you start then? 29. Okay. And that is a huge difference. I'm so glad because I at like, like, 25 was like, I need to be on TV or something.

And I was trying so hard to do things on like YouTube and it just like really. Yeah. Is it findable? Oh gosh. I hope not. I made sure one of my girlfriends is like, I don't even know how to describe her. She used to work for a scooter run. Now she's like, she's just like a boss.

Yeah. And she like helped me delete a lot of things off the internet when I went on TV. Wait. So you want, so only in 2000. and if only when you were 25, you got the bug or when growing up were you, like, wanting to be? No, I always had the bug. Yeah.

But not like, I don't know how to explain it. I just loved entertaining. I loved making my family laugh growing up, but I was actually quite shy in public. And then in high school, I kind of grew into, I don't know, myself and was like, oh, I can like make other people laugh that aren't my family. Okay, let's try that. And then I loved entertaining.

And then I was dancing and I found that as like a form of entertainment. And then, yeah, when I was 25, I'll never forget this guy, Dave Lingwood, who was on the show The Buried Life. I don't know if you remember that show. It was on MTV years ago. It was guys that wanted to cross things off their bucket list. And along the way, they would help other people cross things off their bucket list. And they picked me to be on their TV show. And I was like, this is my moment.

And then they cut the episode because... What were we supposed to do? So they were trying to cross something off my bucket list. And I auditioned for a music video. I'm pretty sure for like Soldier Boy and I didn't get picked so they had to like scratch my episode and put a blind cowboy riding a horse and that was on his bucket list and that was much more you know wait were you auditioning for stuff or that just happened no that just happened oh okay yeah so what were you actually doing to like make that something happen nothing I mean just manifesting teas and peas thoughts and prayers I was like yeah I was manifesting no I was just working at a restaurant in Vancouver and like meeting a bunch of famous people people because everybody films there but oh really oh true what are they filmed right now you should hear the people I've served in my day really hilarious so what do you did you try to like no I always acted like I didn't know who they were okay how was that going to like help you

because they'd be like wow she's so cool oh oh it would be like the stories you always hear like they found Johnny Depp on the street and like Knoxville Pamela Anderson am I make I know his town Pamela Anderson was discovered at Vancouver, British Columbia, BC Lions CFL football game on the big screen. I was a cheerleader for the BC Lions and thought, this is how she's going to get discovered. Yeah. But then I lost all that and I was like,

actually, I'll just chase a hockey player because I'm Canadian. That's the dream. Did you? Yeah, I did. Did you date one? Yeah. Moved everywhere for him. Stop.

Lost myself. Got addicted to Valium. That's pre-Twit. at 25? Yeah. 235, 26, 27 is when it was, 27 was like a really dark time for me. And then I was like, I don't care about anything except being happy. And then I rebuilt myself, did so much therapy. And then that's when I got a call to go on The Bachelor. Got a call. Explain. My girlfriend sent in like paperwork, pictures. Did you know? Videos. Yeah, she told me she was doing it because after the breakup, I was like, I'll never find love again. And she was like, you would be great on

Bachelor. And I was like, I don't think they take Canadians. You looked like such a goody two shoes on the Bachelor. I can't imagine. I did not. No, but like you were like in the sitting. Are you kidding? I was like the controversial one. No, I know. But like you were like such a baby. I can't. What I'm saying is I can't imagine you being on Valium. Oh yeah, yeah. It was a bad. It was bad. I was just so I was in such a dark place when it was the first breakup I've ever gone through. And if anyone's listening to this and they've listened to my podcast, they're like, you've beat that dead horse so badly that he's in another like, He's reincarnated and he's living a good life and you're still beating him. But I was so broken when that relationship ended because I thought that's who I was going to marry.

And I had no job, no money, no education, no plan, no hopes for my future. And I had to like kind of restart. And shout out to Jason Tardek's book, Restart Reset. And then I was like, okay, I'm going to have to rebuild myself and like start over at a restaurant and like work my way back up, I guess. And that was at 27. But in that time before I decided to, like, go to therapy, I lived with my parents and was on, like, antidepressants and Valium to, like, get by. It was crazy. So being on the Valium then is what got you addicted to it?

Yeah. So I was like, oh, what? I can just take this pill and be numb. Oh, my God. I was so into it. And then my whole family was like. Yeah, you have a really close family. Yeah.

And they were like, Caitlin. You were a shell of yourself at the end of that. relationship, you can't, like, now numb your shell of yourself and, like, expect to move forward in life. Like, let's help you get out of that. So then they did. Okay. So then Bachelor happened. And then Bachelor happened. And you're like, ooh, did you watch the show? Did you know? Oh, yeah. I was a huge fan. I actually, my girlfriend put in all the videos in to be on Juan Pablo's season. And they didn't call me for that. And then I just kind of forgot about it. And I was working at the restaurant one day. And I got a call from a number of California.

your number and I didn't answer it. And then I listened to the message and they're like, hey, it's Lacey casting from ABC's The Bachelor, wondering if you're like single and still thinking about coming on the show. And I was like, I was dating a guy at the time. I was like, hey, Corey, it's over. I'm going on TV. If it was now, there would be like articles about it. There was. Oh, yeah? Corrie came out of the woodwork and was like, she left me. No, Corey didn't. But after, so I moved to Vancouver after I got the call. And, met a guy and he was incredible he was so great but again obviously not my guy because i was like hey don't let don't fall in love with me because i'm going on the bachelor and then i left and yeah so

but there was articles being like she's the phoniest and they had pictures of me and him and he was like no she actually told me the whole time she was going it's fine oh so he did so he was a cutie oh he's a gem gem married with a baby now super sweet firefighter real hero oh it's like Funny that you know all that info about this man. Well, I dated him. No, I know, but so long ago. Oh, well, we're still Instagram friends. Oh, he's lovely.

Oh, that's crazy. Yeah. Okay, so you go on Crystal season. Do you know it's crystals before? I was hoping it was. It was between him and Ari. Linda bike? Sure.

I don't know how you say it. It was him? Yeah. He only got it years later then. I know. That's crazy. They've always wanted him to be The Bachelor. Wow.

Yeah. I mean, his story is one that really ended up working. Oh my gosh, they're adorable. Like really cute. Yeah. Family. Like they did the thing. They make sense.

And they're very cute. And they did it. Like they got married. They had kids. Like all the shit. Okay. So Chris Hals, you were the third. Yes.

So like. Bronze medal on the podium. Wait. So in your competitive nature, are you like happy about that that you were like in the top three? That's where it was actually confusing to be on that show is because I am so competitive. And I was very confused. I was like, do I actually love him or am I being competitive? I was being competitive.

You can say that now or did you know then? I kind of knew like I was, I remember thinking that the whole way through. And when we got down to final three, I got really scared because I was like, what if it is me? And then I was like, do I love him? Am I being manipulated? Am I being brainwashed? Am I being competitive? And I really had to like journal about it.

And one of the great things about being on The Bachelor is you don't have any other distractions. So you don't have a phone. You don't have books to read. You can't watch TV. You can't talk to your family. You can't talk to anyone that grounds you. So you're really like left with your thoughts. And I really pondered on that for a long time of if I was actually in love or if I was just like wanting to be the best.

Yeah. And I think it was both for me. Were you like, foo when you were in Pick though? Not in the moment. But I'll never forget. So The Bachelor has a therapist, I guess, and she came into my room. She has to check on everybody who gets dumped. And she came into my room.

I was hysterically bawling. I was sad because I was like, oh, I think I really did love him. And she was like, Caitlin, every rose ceremony you got through, I was so scared for you because you would have been bored to death with that man. Oh, I like this therapist. Same. So I was like, oh, you're not working with the show. You're a true therapist.

And it was in that moment where I was like, Oh, wow. I've never had, I've been surrounded by producers for so long. How nice to just have a real thought. Yeah. And a real statement said to me where it's like, no, you wouldn't have been happy. And I was like, you're right. That's crazy. How long you've been in this Bachelor world. Isn't it? Very. okay y'all remember if you followed me from a while back the dime beauty was my first ever real skincare routine and yes i started a skincare routine way later than penelope disick okay i started about 30 um and dime beauty was it it was my first like full line of products from like a cleanser to hyluronic acid vitamin c day cream night cream just they have everything and what i love about them is it's clean vegan cruelty free, no harsh chemicals, and they're ranked between a one to three on the EWG toxicity scale. Courtney would definitely approve. None of the ingredients they use have been

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Go to Shopify.com slash not skinny to take your business to the next level. Shopify.com slash not skinny. So Becca Tilly was the second. Yeah. Do you like her? Are you friends with her? Love her. So happy for her and her girlfriend.

Like I don't know them. They haven't seen much of Becca. But I'm just so. happy for this couple that I don't know. So it's... Her and Haley, right? Before her and Haley came out and announced their relationship. Like everyone knew probably.

If you Googled Becca Tilly lesbian, it came up with me because we talked about how our love was like so real out of that show. Oh. And we said, could you imagine if we were like the first lesbian couple out of the bats? And that would come up in articles. So now I got drowned out by Haley, but I love them. They're so cute together. I love it.

Yeah. Okay. So what was the fame like after that show? Like, was it what we know today? Was it like Instagram followers? Was it? Yeah, it was actually the start of Instagram. So when I went on The Bachelor, I think that was the first season from then until now

where you actually weren't trying to go on for Instagram. Like, we didn't know that was going to be a thing. So I was truly going on for an experience. I was like, well, people could build a brand. or do something. Yeah, you were very open as a viny. As a true viny. As a true viny.

I remember that that's something you always, like, we're honest about. You were like, I knew you could, like, build a brand, do a thing and, like, also find something. Yeah, bonus. Okay. Yeah. So the fame was crazy because everyone says you sign up for it or you know what's going

to happen. And you're like, no, I actually had no idea that was going to come from it. So I didn't know people were going to offer me money. to post on Instagram. I didn't know. I love how you were building a brand and you were a waitress before. Like, what brand were you building? Just the brand of Caitlin Bristow. I love that. Like, you had so much. Like, I just thought I, I thought I wanted to share therapy stuff. Like, I was like, I want to have a voice and talk about how important therapy is and like being your biggest cheerleader and like growing just based on being authentic. Like that was already in my brain

before knowing that could actually be a thing. Well, you kind of did that though. Yeah. With the pod. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Thanks. Okay. Yeah, it was crazy. So the fame Instagram followers did come. Was there like...

Paparazzi was the wildest thing to me because I never thought paparazzi would ever follow me. And it was very short-lived, which was fun because I can't imagine having that forever. Really? It wasn't fun. It was fun for about like a week. Yeah. And I was like, hey, this is terrible. Was this in L.A.?

Yeah. And Vancouver, actually. Were you trying to live in L.A. then? No. I never tried. Oh, you never tried? No. No.

Really? I wanted to get in and get out and I didn't want to get chewed up and spat out and I kind of did. So see, that's something I feel like with age, you know what I mean? That you had that inner voice telling you like, because I feel like everyone usually in The Bachelor, they're like from Alabama and they moved to L.A. Yeah. By themselves, like the day they get kicked out of the show.

So many Bachelor people do too. And I get it because it's like there are opportunities. But I was so focused on staying grounded and like humble and I got scared to get. lost in that and I didn't want it to be like a taste of a drug where you got a little taste of fame and then you just go down like the rabbit hole. Yeah. And I wanted to actually like build a life for myself, which again, you're right. It came with age because if that was me at 25, I would have I wouldn't be here. You'd be like partying in L.A. And I did that too, but I was able to like separate. Yeah. Okay, I'm going to go do that. But then I want to come back here and I want to

like build a life for myself. So were there trolls then and mean people or not as much as today? I'm trying to make it like it's worse today and you're not helping me. Oh. Is it not worse today? It was bad then in 2015. It was really bad. Really? Yeah.

But you're talking. It probably is worse today. People thought you were controversial after your season. I didn't remember the people thought you were controversial after Chris's season? Yeah. Yeah, they did make me kind of an angel. No, they've, not that they made me, but they definitely showed my more relatable side and like having my wall. up and then being like, okay, I'm going to trust my gut and fall in love and like letting

it all down and then getting hurt. Yeah. And then The Bachelorette, it was like, oh, God, she has sex. What up? Controversy with you, if you guys haven't watched with your Bachelorette because then you got to be Bachelorette. Yeah. Which is huge.

What was that like getting the call or? Well, it was crazy because they've only ever had another Canadian be the Bachelorette once. And she was, Jillian Harris showed out. She was one of my favorite bacheloretts. But I was like, ah, they're not going to pick like an edgy swearing Canadian who like talks about sex all the time like they want girl next door yeah emily maynard vibes and so when they or when they called me to like talk about it i was like what because you know reality steve yeah

he like had said this girl would never be the bachelorette she's so out there all the fucking he's wrong about my season two he's wrong all the time and so i was like okay it's probably not me so when they called i was like what and then they're like but there's a catch you're going to be competing against brit yeah two bachelors the guys will pick who it will be yeah Yeah. And I was like, yeah, I'm out. I'm not doing that. Yeah.

And they were like, well, how about this paycheck? And I was like, I'm in. Yeah. So then it was competitive. Would you have gotten that paycheck if you weren't picked? But I did negotiate to have, I still would have got money if Brit was picked. Yeah. Did you have like an agent?

Like already you were like set up, had people. I had an entertainment lawyer that helped me. Okay. And then as we all know, you got picked. Yeah. And your season was crazy. So the controversy, I wonder, okay, this is another question. Okay.

The craziness from your season was really the sex with Nick by all. Yeah. We know today. By the way, he just got engaged. Congrats. Yeah. Did you text him? Congratulations.

I didn't because he does a whole thing about like not texting your ex. And I was like, is this me crossing a line or like his whole schick is like, don't text your ex. That's the name of his book. Yeah. So I was like, I wanted to, but then I was like, or is that weird? Yeah. But I am genuinely happy for them because they seem. legitimately meant for each other and sweet and like I believe in their love.

Yeah? Yeah, I do. Did you know that she's 23? I did because- People were shocked that she's 23 and people are also shocked to know that Nick is like 42. Yeah. Which like he should come out with some skincare.

Yeah, drop your skin care. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy because so what happened? He did a podcast not too long ago where he was kind of dragging me for stringing him along on the bachelorette and I was like wait that was five years ago but this is after you did podcasts together though oh yeah this was like actually quite recent like a couple a few months ago and he was like kind of calling me selfish and saying i strung him along said your name or was like talking oh yeah yeah yeah same and i was like oh that's too bad that that's weird i didn't

expect him to kind of go off on me like that i thought we're friends but okay people send it to you how do you know oh it's people send it to you yes and then i can't what's the name of the account like Game of Roses podcast tagged me in something and they're like Caitlin he like he went off on this for like a solid 20 minutes and I was like oh my gosh that's kind of mean and so then somebody else posted and they're like Nick you did the same thing on your season you knew it was Vanessa from day one wait he was dragging you was a bachelor I mean he better than anyone knows it's a TV show and like the shit that you have to do that's why it was very confusing and they were like he still but her and they were like by the way your girlfriend was 15 while she was

watching this happen and i was like wait what and then i looked up the age and i was like oh shit oh my god yeah men's egos let me tell you are so big so big that they can't live life like he literally probably even though he was cool with you you guys like kind of made up yeah it's still there for him it's still there and that's i mean sean booth also ego also ego also ego I'll never forget, I said, Sean, if you just put your ego aside, we could probably work. And he was like, what ego? You've crushed my ego. And I was like, oh, okay. Sean, I remember you going through that with Sean and also thinking just the ego was so big. You couldn't get over the Nick thing. I remember. No, never. I still don't think he is. He was on Jason's flight today to New York.

No. Hilarious, yeah. Did they say hello? No. Do they see each other? Yeah. What are the odds? That's what I said.

I went four years without running into him anywhere and I was going to ask you. He lives in Asheville. I've seen him three times in the last three months. Do you say hi? No, I would love to though. But no, it hasn't been like we're like right there and could say hi. It was more like he was in a distance. And you think he hates you?

No. I think he did for a long time. Yeah. And I think now he probably is, I hope over it. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I would love to just be able to say like if I see him like.

Did you ever say who ended it? Yeah, I just, it's still confusing, because I'm like, we both kind of did. He basically, he basically said, like, I don't know why I can't get over it. And I don't know why I can't love you the way that you need me to. And I was like, so what am I supposed to do? Like, do I stay with you? Wait, you guys were together for years, though. How many years?

Six? Three and a half. Okay. I really took it. Wow. I mean, that's a lot, though. Yeah, it was a lot. To be engaged from the bachelor friends.

He couldn't get over Nick? No. No, I think that is. Did he watch the season? Yeah. Do you understand now couples that are together after seeing their season that, like, wilder shit goes on? You're like, wow, you got over that and you're like with your partner where he couldn't get over this? Yeah, because I'm like, I want to have a little bit of compassion and empathy for it because I don't know if I could get over that either.

You know, like him having sex with another woman in national television and me just being like, ah, it was me the whole time. And then watching it back and me like, oh, shit, it was not me the whole time. time. Like, I get that that is totally like. And then you find out like after you're engaged. Yeah. Yeah. I, but I mean, I made sure to tell him everything that happened before he proposed to me because I didn't want him to watch back. Yeah. And see everything. So there needs to be like a no watch back rule. Do you think though that you being way more, I would say like famous and and love than him played a part in it? I think that would, Jason and I talked about this the other day. because to have a healthy relationship needs to start on a really solid foundation and to start

on a foundation where you're dating a bunch of other dudes and it's manipulated television and edited and copy and pasted what you're saying and you're saying about someone else and it's just a mind fuck yeah so to come out of that and actually have confidence in your love would be really challenging and I think no matter who you are like I again I want to have compassion for Sean's feelings in that because as much as that pissed me off and I wanted to be like, get the fuck over it. Yeah. I also was like, God, I would be really insecure too.

We've all, don't get me started on inner child work. I'm about to go do a huge therapy retreat about inner child work. And he went through some really tough stuff as a kid and didn't trust people. And so I try and look at it from that perspective. He did some really hurtful things to me and I did some hurtful things to him. And I don't know. It's just, it's a really tough show to come out of and have a healthy relationship. Okay.

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Did you get jelly watching Jason and Becca? No. Not even a little bit. Why? Why? How do you? Well, I'm looking back, but weren't they like in the, like, they were like in Europe. It was very like conservative, I feel like. Well, Jason's a little bit conservative.

Right. And like, you know, polished. And then he was more. He was like more slick, even. Oh, he was Mr. Buttoned Up slick banker Jason. Like nice shoes. Like, yeah. Like, yeah, worky shoes. Yeah, he was so sweet. still is sweet. Did you watch it then? Yeah. Did you like put your eye on him? Were you like, I wanted him to be the bachelor. Oh, like he were like rooting for him. Yeah. I was totally rooting for him.

Like I wanted him to find love. And I was like, oh, he's so cute if he like took out the jail. And like, because I was like, the slick back look is really a thing. But I was like, he's so smart and kind and well spoken and like good looking and all these things. And I really wanted him to be the bachelor. And. So even, no, Becca Kufrin, who he was in love with, is one of our great friends. You would say that, though, who he was in love with? Yeah. That's an intense thing to say. I asked him. I was like, were you actually in, because I think about myself in that situation with Chris

Souls. And I'm like, I don't know if I was actually in love with him. Yeah. In the time, maybe. So I asked him. He said, yeah? And he said, yeah. You guys are so, like, healthy communicators.

Well, in some aspects, yes. Yeah. Yeah. And he said, yeah. Did it sting? No. Wait, she's with Thomas? Yeah.

Engage. Like if Jason would ever post anything about his time, I'd be like, don't do that. Yeah. But it's not like, I love her and I get why he was in love with her. She's one of my favorite people out of the whole franchise. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah.

So I get it. I get it. I just get it. And I know he's not in love with her anymore. Right. But it's funny because I was so insecure with Sean where if he was in love with somebody else, I couldn't even hear her name. Oh.

Yeah. But Jason just makes you feel really secure. Yeah. I know, it's nice. I love that. Yeah. Just for a second about the backlash you got about the sex stuff. Yeah.

How weird. Bizarre. Like, okay, I'm asking the same question. But do you think that today, today, like fucking January, 2023? No. No, right? No. You're right about that.

Yeah. Finally. Yeah. Finally. I got it today. I'll give you that. I'll give you that. Because people were like, how, what is the thing?

We're like, everybody now has sex on the show. I remember Hannah Brown having sex in a windmill. four times and people were like raising the roof for her and I was like I and I love that because part of the reason I was like I paved the way yeah they were like Caitlin walk so Hannah could run and I was like I love that yeah because part of the reason I did want to talk about it is I was like why are we why are we shaming people for this or like we make fun of virgins and then we shame people who have sex funny though Caitlin that the person who did it with was Nick I mean it's like it's like a good story do you get what I mean we're wrong with us

It's like, it's such a good story to tell your grandkids. I can't wait to tell my grandkids and show them on YouTube. And like, remember forever. But it's, but it could have been, I feel like, a different dude to be, for this story to be better. Well, the whole thing was, I mean, even the producers really sexualized Nick to me. Like, they were like, he's so. There was one producer. I've never even said this.

You get the exclusive. One producer actually said to me, after I would kiss him, she'd come. and like like wipe my vagina my lips and she would swipe my lips and like lick her lips and be like oh i just want to know what that tastes like to like make out with nick they made they really like put him on a pedestal to me and he was less hot then that was pre-glow up pre-glow up and they that was pre-glow up and sean was so good looking i was always like Sean could get it totally and i was like oh well Sean and then but they really but you know that was part of their tactic and way to...

That is raunchy. I know. I know. So you were thinking, oh, so you were like basically brainwashed that he's a sexual beast that you need to like... And he was very sexual with me.

He really like made me feel desired and he'd like... Like he was really sexual. Yeah. And... Is it weird thinking back about this stuff? Yeah. Because I'm like, God, now I'm like, I think of him as like...

Oh, it's Nick. Like, I don't even remember that's who that was. Like, it feels like a character on a show to me. That's what I'm saying, like, there's Nick and there's the, like, weird thing now that it's like, are you cool, are you not? Yeah. But it's also the guy. No, it's so weird. Did the thing with that, like, Sean was so upset over and, like, this whole thing.

Yeah. Anyway, congrats to Nick. Are you going to, like, are we okay? Well, we'll see if I'm invited to the wedding. I'm just kidding. Are all batcher people invited, do you think? He'll have a lot of batch of people there. Do you think no?

If he did, it would be for headlines. See how paranoid is? Would you go? I don't trust anyone. Would I go? Yeah, I probably would. If you were invited. Well, Jason and Nick are friends too.

Oh, they're friendly? Yeah. Oh, this Bachelor nation people. It's bizarre. Think about it, though. I was in love with Chris Souls and then I had sex with Nick, but then I was also in love with Ben Higgins, but then I picked Sean and now I'm with Jason. Like, it's so weird.

And like all these people really evolved since. like Ben Higgins is like different yeah living a kind of different life right wow Caitlin you really want throw him but you got some good ones you got some like Ben Higgins is a really good one yeah he was in great company good guys Ben Higgins was a good one okay Jason yeah so saw him rooting for him and then you guys clicked when he came on your podcast yeah was he a viny I'm switching their names to buying you forever. No, he was just kind of like doing his media rounds. Yeah, in Nashville. No, we were in, I was in Seattle visiting a girlfriend. Oh.

I literally took an Uber to go to the studio to podcast Jason and I almost canceled because I was bawling my eyes out in the Uber because Sean was being mean to me because we had already broken up and I don't know, he was being mean. And right before I got out of the Uber, the Uber driver looked at me and he said, don't ever let anyone talk to you like that. And then I sobbed even harder. He heard the like it was on like speaker. Yeah. And then I sobbed and I walked in and then Jason walked in and I was facetiming my dad trying to calm down. And then Jason saw me and I was like, I'm a mess. I'm just going through it. And he was like, great. I'm a mess too. I just came from like a charity event where I cried. And then we just kind of like clicked. But I wasn't attracted to him on the podcast. I remember who was there? Olivia. Yeah. You know why Olivia was there? Because I was scared of Sean and I wanted a buffer because he was being weird about me podcasting with. a bachelor dude being single. So I was like, fine, I'll bring a buffer.

Wait, even though you were broken up, he was trying to control the situation. Yeah. Wow. I mean, I was a little toxic. We both were. I don't want to put it all on him. I was very toxic too. Yeah.

So Olivia was there. Yeah. And but, okay, so you're saying you weren't attracted then, but people, the story is told that like there was like some talking chemistry there. Total chemistry. Oh my gosh. We had great chemistry. Yeah.

Like, I always think about. His worst fear happened. Sean's worst fear happened. I know. I know. Oh, my God. Even with the buffer. I know.

Yeah. Oh, my God. He probably manifested it somehow without an annoying. Yeah. It's like wrong. Wrong. Concentrate on the other. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So talking chemistry, but you weren't like I want to. Well, because I think about like my chemistry with Artem from Dancing with the Star is just because it's chemistry doesn't mean it's sexual. Right. And that's what I felt with Jason. I was like, we have insane chemistry.

But I wasn't thinking like, I want to jump his bones. Yeah. It was more like, wow, just really easy to talk to you and what an incredible guy. And then we just kept talking from the podcast on and just turned into something. And then how did it go from like friends to more? Oh, duh. Because he, a girl that worked for some hockey team. I can't remember what hockey team.

I want to say Boston maybe had reached out to him like to go on dates. Like, hey, we should go out or whatever. and then Jason sent her Instagram profile to me and he's like, this girl's asking me on dates, should I go? And I was like, and I was like, ne'er? And then I went, oh. Oh, that you were like, jelly?

Yeah. I was like, I don't want you to go. And then I was like, okay. Was he that whole time, though, wanting and you were in? Yeah. Like, you could feel like he would want to be more. I think he was trying to respect the zone of like, I was totally putting him in a friend zone.

We just broke up. And he was like kind of getting sick of just being in the friend zone. So he was like, Would this bug her? And then he sent it to me and I was like, that bugs me. And then we're like, okay. So how long were you friends before you, like, started dating? Probably like four months.

Oh, that's a long time. Yeah. Well, let's think about it. It was October. It was October, November, December. Yeah, it was four months. Oh, that's so cute. Did you feel like you didn't get enough time to be single now that you're, like,

going to get married to? Yeah. Yeah, I guess. But it's just like- It's weird how things happen. You can't plan them. When you go on, when you're the Bachelorette and you date that many guys, you're kind of over-dating.

Like, I'm like, I don't really need to be single. I've dated so many guys that I'm like, eh, I don't really care to be single. You know what I'm wondering about you? Because I can't remember. Because I can't imagine you doing this. Did you say all the chuggy bachelor things when you were a bachelette? Were you like? Probably.

I tried not to. I remember trying not to. Like, journey. Amazing. journey here for the right reasons right i'm starting to fall in love with you yeah there are different categories i remember trying so hard not to and i don't you hear it all the time like i i when i went on i was almost trying to be too cool on that show like i was like i'm not going to say the dumb stuff that they always say i'm not going to be involved in the drama i'm not going to fall in love right

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ABC, ABC, someone put like a fucking foot in your way. Yeah. to saying somebody put a somebody somebody someone was stopping you yeah someone wasn't letting that happen yeah why robert flese mike flice so first of all it's so funny my relationship with mike fleses is so interesting because again with my age i'm getting softer and for people i used to hate now i have compassion you used to be angry about it i remember used to be like angry i was so angry and now you're like i'm a dancer i'm a dancer i'm a I was so angry because I felt that show was very sexist in the first place.

They don't pay the bachelors the same as they pay the bachelors. They give the bachelors more opportunity. They slut shamed the hell out of me. But if a guy does it, and it's part the people who create the show, but it's part of the audience as well. So I was so annoyed because Sean Lowe had done dancing with the stars. Chris Soles did dancing with the stars. And the only bachelor that had ever done it was Trista Sutter. but she was the first Bachelorette and they were really trying to promote the show.

It was a long time ago. Yeah. And so when I came off the show and I got an offer to go on dancing with the stars, I was, I don't know TV. I don't know contracts. I'm like a little Canadian who's never been involved in this stuff. So I was like, I'll do it. I didn't know that I had to like check with the creator of the show. I was still under contract.

So I was like, yeah, great. And then all of a sudden I got a message or an email from someone. I can't remember who it was. And they were like, you're not allowed to do the show. the Dancing with the Stars. And I was like, I'm supposed to fly to New York, like, in two days to be announced on Good Morning America. What do you mean? I'm not doing the show.

And they were like, yeah, Flai says, no, like, you're still under contract, so you can't do it. And instead of being like, okay, I was like, why? And then I was like, put me in touch with him. So. Wait, did, okay, looking back at the contract, did it say anywhere that you, like, can't do the show specifically? It didn't say I can't do this show specifically, but it did say that they have the right of refusal for me to do other things. and I was not taking no for an answer. I called assistants.

I called the production studio. I was like, put me in touch. He's on the phone. Oh, he can't talk. I was like, I'll wait. I'll wait. Put him on the phone. Like you physically called.

Oh, yeah. And I finally got in touch with Flaise. And I said, why can I not do dancing with the stars? And he goes, Caitlin, I'm just sick of people wanting fame after my show. And I said, but you've let other bachelors do it. Ew.

That's a gross fucking reason. Well, wait for it. I said, dancing has been a passion of mine my whole life. And he said, well, Sean should be your passion now. And I was like, I'm going to throw up. But he never liked me in the first place. He didn't want me to be The Bachelorette. A couple of the producers had to convince him.

And then now, fast forward to I was just at the finale for the last season, Gabby and Rachel's, and saw Flyce. And he wanted, you could tell he wanted a boy being. But I just walked right up to him. And I was like, hey. And he's like, Caitlin. He's like, really. proud of everything you've done you like was it a closure moment yeah and I was like cool cool because I was like you know what I could have shut my mouth and I could have not tweeted and called him

a sexist piece of shit but I did and I was like I'm standing by how I feel yeah women need the same opportunity as the men and I got somewhere from it and I'm proud of myself for it and you ended of fucking doing it and winning it and then I won well like that to me that's something you wanted to do and you ended up doing it that probably felt so good. It was one of the coolest moments of my whole life because I used to grow up watching that show with my mom. I love dancing.

My mom was a professional ballerina and I just always like dreamt of doing something with dancing. I believe he said people we're sick of people wanting to like it or not that's happening now and that does good things for your show because those people then gain fame then they have the numbers to bring in more viewers

and keep loyal. That's like really gross. I'm like kind of ugh. Yeah. It's gross. And then you hosted. So here's the thing, though. You've talked some shit about Bachelor people.

Yeah. About Mike. Sometimes I don't even remember if you used to say things about Chris, but you were upset with the, with the, with the, with the franchise sometimes. But they give you opportunities, which is pretty cool. They didn't for a while. Yeah. And then they did because I think they saw like, well, she speaks her mind whether we like it or not. And people, it's always about race.

meetings. Yeah. So if she's kept an audience for this long, let's give her a shot at doing the hosting because these people are so loyal. So I think they were like, let's see what happens. And Bennett, one of the executive producers, he was one of my main producers as a bachelor. And I've always got along really well with him. And he always kind of believed in me and he gave me the shot for hosting. Did you like it? I loved it. I felt like that's where I was supposed to be in life. I thought I was going to do it for a long time. I really did. What, how many seasons was it to? Two. And then what? they just decided not to bring you back? I was on the tour bus for Dancing with the Stars and I remember I had to take a meeting

and I was in the back of the bus and Rob Mills and a Bennett called me. And I thought they were going to be like, all right, so you're our new host. And they were like, well, you probably saw this coming, but we can't have you anymore. And I was like, what? I didn't see that coming. I got all the confidence of the world. Yeah. And so they were like, yeah, we need a more consistent host.

And so we're going with Jesse Palmer. Which was out of left field, no? I was like, well, you're making a mistake, not because I don't like Jesse. I think he's actually an incredible host. You thought you wanted the thing with Tasha where both of you were supporting to be, wait, no, you and Tasha did it by yourselves for Michelle's season. Michelle and Katie. Michelle and Katie, you did by yourselves? Then we were done.

Oh, that was the only thing? Yeah. So did you think you would get it like alone maybe? I did. I did because at the end, Tasia had co. it and couldn't make it for the finale for the after the final rose live taping and everyone was shitting their pants like Caitlin's up there alone she can go rogue like who knows what this chick's a liability yeah and I was like I am going to do my best I can yeah and I felt so good about it

and at the end they were like wow you did really well and then so how do you explain that like why how did they decide on Jesse Palmer I again I think they just wanted a more consistent role where it was like someone that's going to host the Bachelor of the Bachelorette and Paradise. And you can do that? I don't think they wanted me to. Oh, so what do you mean they wanted them more consistent? I don't know. Someone that's like...

You're like, I'm just saying. I'm just saying what I was told. So Chris Harrison, we talked about this before. He has a podcast. I haven't listened, but I've gotten clip notes from different people. He was talking about people that reach out to him. He's name and names. Well, your name didn't come up. It didn't. I reached out to him. Oh, it didn't. I'm surprised he actually didn't say anything.

So he didn't bring up my name. I don't think so. He didn't. I told you he mentioned Nick's name. He mentioned that he thought Wells should get it. The job. Yeah. Which I guess he was also in the family.

Yeah, Wells is amazing. So it's interesting that it's, it's hard because like sometimes when you work places and this was like work, it's like something doesn't really make sense. And you just have to like accept. I know. Because you're like there's always a reason in the higher. ups that I won't ever know about. Yeah. But I was, I'm, I am shocked that Chris never said anything because so when they offered, first

all, all of that went down with him and Rachel, Rachel is a dear friend of mine. And I didn't agree with how Chris was talking to her in that interview. And but Chris was also a dear friend of mine. I remember you podcasting with him and like, you guys were close. Oh, to me, one of my, like, I always said when Jason proposes, he has to ask my dad, my stepdad, and Chris Harrison. Stop. Yeah.

So what happened? So I was like, okay, when this all went down, I reached out to Rachel and I reached out to Chris and I said, what you did was wrong. You know that. I understand there's so much more to it, but what do you want me to do to support you while also standing up for what I believe in? And then he called and we talked and he just said like, yeah, I don't want anyone to really get involved or whatever. Like it's hard. So I understand that you have to, you know, say what you need to say. And I was like, well, I don't agree with what you said. But you know that but well moving on then they offered me the position to come in and what they said that the bachelor franchise said it was to mentor katie yeah i wouldn't be replacing chris right so then all these articles started coming out saying kately bristow and tasha adams replacing chris and so i message chris probably 10 times without him responding and that is so not like him to me it's not about me like what did you want his blessing no i just wanted him to know that i thought he was irreplaceable and that i wouldn't didn't want to step on toes oh

And so I was like, you're irreplaceable. I don't know what my role is. They said it was a mentor, but now I'm seeing articles about how I'm replacing you. And I just, that makes me feel icky. And then he didn't write back. And then I was like, okay, well, now I'm panicking. Why didn't you write me back? And then he didn't write me back.

And then I was like, I'm on my period. Am I being emotional? But like, do you hate me? And then he didn't write back. And then I was like, can you call me? And then he didn't write back. And then I was like, okay, he hates me. And we were like best friends and now he hates me.

And then I saw Matt Wells and, Sarah's wedding and I walked up to him and I was like I miss you and he's like well I've always been here and I'm like oh you haven't you ever responded to me and like forever yeah so yeah that was tough so you didn't get answers no how could he not like you for taking a job so I don't think it was actually about me if I can remove again my ego I'm like you're getting me fucking hot today Caitlin now I understand no but no but it's just like how could he like how could he like how could he have you ever read the four agreements no okay well one of the four agreements to try and live by in life is to not take anything personally and i like it's his it's not it's

it wasn't about me yeah i i think he was going through so much in his life and he was like he lost 20 pounds he was depressed he was no obviously but there is a reason why but i mean yeah i think he was definitely it's not about you obviously but there is a reason why you he didn't consider you a safe person a close person. Yeah, I was really, I was really, I bawled my eyes out about it because I was like, that friendship just felt like it went down the toilet and it was never thing. You think he was mad about you not supporting him publicly? No, because it was more about taking his role. How do you support that publicly? What didn't you want people to say no to opportunities? Right. I would, oh my God. I mean, it's not like he didn't, you know, I wasn't Nick where I was smelling blood in the

water. Yeah. So that's what I was saying. I was telling Caitlin before we started, one of the things he said on the podcast was that there were a lot of people that didn't wait a second. Like, agents were reaching out. Oh, I never reached out to anyone. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, it's a coveted position to get. Oh. It's the dream. Like, and people always thought, like, hold do it till he dies. Yeah. And then, like, it's tough, too, because I think he told me on my podcast that he would retire around the age of 42, 43. And this was around that time. And that's his legacy now. So I think, he was probably really crushed that, like, he wanted to go out on top when he was, you know,

and then that's how people are going to remember him. It's really tough. Yeah. So I think it was just all him going through his own stuff. And I don't think it was my fault. Yeah. But I think he. Did you like congratulate him for his engagement with Lauren and stuff?

Oh, yeah. I congratulated him on the podcast, everything. Did he answer? Yeah. Oh, so since seeing him at the wedding, he's like answered you. Yeah. But it's not the same. Right.

It's like dissent. Right. So is Bachelor Nation, which you're of Marnum. Oh. Like a love hate thing for you? Are you like, ugh? But like it's part of your journey kind of thing. It's more love for sure.

I never want to be like, I don't want to be afraid of the hand that fed me. I don't care to bite it because I will stand up for what I believe in. And if like right is right to me and wrong is wrong and I understand it's a TV show and I can't always align with that. I don't believe in a lot. I got really excited because I saw potential for the growth and evolution of that show with the times. and then I saw them kind of go backwards.

So it is a love-hate relationship in a certain way, but like the majority is love because it changed my life and because there are so many incredible people in that franchise, and there are a lot of good producers. I think of any industry. There's freaking weasels and slime balls in every industry, and there's a lot in that industry too. Are you committed to watching no matter what?

Well, yeah. Are you going to watch Zach's season? I am. I thought about it, but then I looked at the numbers on my podcast, and you know what? My podcast just does better what I'm talking. Oh, really? They want your opinion on the book.

See, she's a business-oriented to be. Should I go back to watch? And I didn't watch. So I only skipped Rachel and Gabby season. I couldn't do the two. I was like, I can't do it. Nothing against these two women are incredible. Yeah.

I didn't like that season at all because I felt so lost in it the whole time. I'm like, wait, what relationship is this? And who am I? It's enough to keep track of 37 dudes. I didn't feel connected to the relationships at all. Yeah. And what's with them now? like are they both broken up yeah okay so okay so maybe i'll watch if you're watching and you were

saying becca um kufrin is one of your one of your favorite she is is there a least favorite of like out of anyone yeah at all about your nation god probably let me think about this i've never not gotten along with any of them oh that's good i try and think about even like the people that were like guys on my season that were so like emasculated or like bothered when i broke out with them. But I don't know. I get along with everybody. I would have to like look through a list and be like, okay, maybe that's my least favorite. And do like the burn book. Yeah. Okay. Moving on. I love your cue cards. I have to just go off my phone. I usually bring my computer, but I'm going to be like, I know. That's why I did the little push cues. So you're really open about

like Botox filler stuff. And I feel like you get some heat for it. Totally. You did a, I saw on your TikTok a really like emotional video. Oh, the what you want. Who? Yeah. And it was like too skinny. You were like removing all these layers of shit people say about you. So as much as you are loved by so many, you do get some like heat. People will be like too much Botox too much. How do you feel about it?

Like what's your take? Why are people talking about it so much? Do you feel like like what's going on with that? I think I think there's this ridiculous standard for women to look the same as they did when they were first on the show. So people got to know me as 29 year old Caitlin. and they want me to stay that young-looking, innocent, little naive girl. Yeah. And everybody changes over seven years.

Yeah. And yes, I've gotten Botoxin, yes, I've gotten fillers. And I've never gone under the knife, but people seem to think I do. But I love Botoxin fillers. Yeah. Like, it makes me feel rested. It makes me feel like I look refreshed. There's two sides of it.

I love it. And I also know it's an insecurity. And I need to ask myself sometimes why I am doing that. Yeah. So when people come at me for the Botoxin fillers, I'm like, I get it. I do look different and you're just trying to hurt my feelings. And sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it doesn't. So I'm like, I try and think of it as if those haters went away, I'd be like, oh, what am I doing wrong?

I'm not like doing something. Like I don't mind having haters. Really? No, I don't mind. Sometimes it really gets, again, like, I'm all over the map because if I'm on my period, it'll make me cry. No, I know. Sometimes you will post like, you know, okay, Donna or like. Yeah, like sometimes I find it comical.

Sometimes, like, I feel like it does really depend on the mood. Some days you feel like so empowered. Someone could say the worship to you and you're like, whatever, everyone loves me. And then another day someone will literally be like, is your shirt on weird? And you're like, oh, what? Yeah. I was already insecure about my shirt being on weird. And now you're pointing it out.

So it depends on the day. It depends on the day. It really depends on the day. But it's a lot because I feel like people don't talk about looks today, right? Like, I feel comfortable talking about people's like what they're wearing. Yeah. I'm like, I don't care. Like, I don't even think celebrities would be offended nowadays. You know, it's like you're wearing something. You're wearing something you're wearing. Yeah. But I feel like people don't really talk about looks. They do and they don't. Yeah. I guess I'm just like, I feel like people really talk about my looks. And I'm always like, why are we just so focused on, like, my favorite comeback is when people are commenting on my looks. I'm like, well, it's what's on the inside that matters, Donna. Right. And then they're like, how do you fight? back on that. Right, right. But I just, I know, like, I mean, part of the reason I'm going to a inner child retreat for therapy is that my whole life I did think looks was the most important

thing. And I was in a dance studio comparing my body to other girls. And I do know that that's an issue for me. I'd love to figure out why. Like, I would love to not be poke in my face every six weeks to try and look better because- Six weeks. Isn't it like three months? I just did Botox with first time. Well, it's coming back, though. See? Oh, that's okay. I like a little movement. Yeah. No, it's a cute little movement. I haven't done fillers. Yeah. I mean, you don't need. You have beautiful lips. Thank you. The lips I wouldn't need. No, you look perfect lips. But where do you get in? Your lips and where else? And cheeks. I haven't done cheeks in a long time because I actually do like they are a little bit overfilled, to be honest right now. I probably won't touch my cheeks for years.

For years? Yeah. I will do Botox every like, like, I feel like I do it every six to eight weeks. Yeah. But that's... Do you know that somebody called it skincare? Do you agree with that? Listen, I tried it for the first time. Imagine after years of me, like, seeing this thing, not knowing what it is. Like, I did it for the first time. I'm an anxious person, especially when it comes to, like, shit like that. And it gave me no anxiety. And then I woke up literally the next day, even though she said it would take, like, five days.

And I'm like, oh, my God. Like, it was magic. Yeah. I was like, this is fucking. I think it's magic. Yeah. And I really, I think I've judged people before. I think I've judged when it's, like, you're 20.

23 years old. I get that. And you freeze your face. I went in for an appointment because I really started seeing my 11s, like, etching a deep line. Yeah. And I was like, I'm, I've, I've been even waited too long because now it's etched forever. So I don't remember who said it.

Maybe it was like, but I was like, oh, I love that it's like part of a skincare routine. I kind of like that. It's just all so, it just depends. Like, I would never want my niece to turn 22 and think she needs to do that. Yeah. I started. I truly, my forehead. had looked like a pack of hot dog wieners like at the age of 26. Like I had severe. For sure. For

real? Yes. And even when I wasn't making an expression, like my girlfriend who does not do Botox, she's 40. Wait, did you have Botox before the show? Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. Okay. She's, my girlfriend is 40 and she's never done a thing to her face. Yeah. She doesn't want to and she thinks aging naturally is beautiful and I respect the hell out of that. When I did my forehead, she said, I get why you did that. Wait, did you watch Emily and Paris? No. Oh my God. Should I? Because like there is sometimes with actresses that you watch and you're like, wow, her face is frozen and some like you notice these things. Yeah.

And there are some actors that you're like, your foreheadlines are distracting me. Yes. From the film. Especially after you've gotten it, I've started really like looking at everyone and being like, you got it. You didn't. Oh man. Mine were bad. So some actors, somebody wrote like about Emily and Paris like Emily needs to get Botox and it made me crack up because I was like, oh my God, I was staring at her forehead the entire time.

Like, I love some movement, but it was, it was, it was the weaners that you were saying. Yes, I had that. I had the weaners. Another thing that you're really open about is your anxiety. Yeah. So what's up with that now? God, it's gotten so much better. Good.

Yeah. Are you on daily meds? Yeah. What kind? Selexa. Is that like an SSRI? Yeah. Oh, it is.

Uh-huh. I love. I call her my best friends. Oh, my God. I call my Zola of like Z. Yeah. It's funny. Did your relationship change with it?

Like, when you got on it, were you like, oh, I can't believe I have to be in a drug to like be okay? didn't face me at all. Really? Yeah. You were like, love you? I was like, yeah, because I was like, that's how what Valium did to me. I'll tell you. I'll pop anything.

I was like, when I started, I was like, I guess I'm more dramatic. I was just like, what? I looked at the bottle and I was like, I can't believe to start the day, you know, I need this. Yeah. And now I'm kind of like, it's like your little baby. It's just, it changed my life. Yeah. I honestly could look back at all of my relationships now and it was clockwork.

It was every time I was PMS. I would ruin relationships. I would ruin them. And I would have bad meltdowns, like childlike behavior. And I was always like, what is wrong with me? And to be honest, I actually thought I had bipolar disorder for a long time. I was like, there's something that just switches in me. And then I realized it was PMDD, which is premencil depression disorder. And then I was like, could go in an SSRI help with that. So I tried it and it completely changed my life. So it was. more for around the period that you were getting that. That's really the only time that I go dark. And then I have so much freaking empathy for people that actually feel depression every

day. Because I'm like, I cannot imagine feeling that way every day. And what about anxiety? Anxiety comes and goes like for it is a lot around my period as well. Yeah. Which is interesting. But those hormones, man, they fuck you up. Oh my gosh. And it's so unpredictable. Formones are such a powerful thing. It's wild. It blows my mind every time because I'm like, and you can't prepare yourself for it. I'm like. I'm like, and you can't prepare yourself for it. I'm like, I don't know. It could come in like five minutes and I wouldn't know. And that's so scary. Because isn't you can get mad if like your boyfriend or husband or partner would be like, are you really bitchy because you're getting it? And sometimes it's like on point and you're like you fucking bitch. Yeah. Yeah. How does Jason handle it? He's pretty good. Like yeah. I think at first, let me tell you something about Jason. He's only other ever had one other relationship in his life and it was for five years and they never lived together. So this was like really new for him.

him plus he has a brother and his mom is like like she's just an angel an angel and if if anything like if her emotions were ever up and down she could control them and I'm like what does that feel like and so he was really like taken back by some things with me but yeah I also own everything where I'm like well this is who I am so he's gotten a lot better because he's able to understand more because I do so much research on hormones and depression and anxiety. And I've done so much like self work on it that he appreciates that you're working on. Yeah. Okay.

So you have your wine, spades and sparrows. You have your scrunchy brand do. You have your podcast. What are the goals? What are like dreams? Are you just like I'm happy doing what I'm doing? Is there like anything big that you're doing to do next? So I really thought I was going to be hosting.

Now my dream is to host Dancing with the Stars. Like me and Alfonso would crush it. Oh, that would be so cool. But. Or judge? I mean, I would. Imagine you're like, I am the judge. They'd be like, okay.

I don't think I could be a judge because I've never done ballroom dancing until that show. So I don't even know like all the terms. But I just want. Okay, so I used to think I need to do as much as possible. And I did. And then this year, my 2023, like. The word of 2023, last year for me, it was intention, which I don't know. I don't know if I even did that.

But this year it's clarity. I just want to feel so clear on what I'm doing and why. And I want to always grow the podcast. It's my favorite thing to do. I want to get spaded sparrows everywhere that you can possibly imagine, like, just anytime you're in a liquor store, it's like next to the Josh cab. And then do so hard because you can only sell so many scrunchies. It was a trend.

Yeah. So I'm like trying to decide. I want to keep it or like if that was just a really fun thing that I did for a couple years like turned due into like something else like maybe like hair care almost like a silk scrunchy and pillowcases like something to really protect your hair yeah I'm trying to decide that right now but I also have been really having an itch to get back on TV which is so funny I never thought I would say that really like in what way though like I would love to have my own show that's like really like for women well it's actually for everybody but why did you never think

you would say that you love to entertain i think i was just so jaded by the production of bachelor and then isn't it so hard to say your dreams out loud though no oh okay i always feel like ridiculous i get that though the big thing that you really want no you should i know i feel like i've just maybe been able to say it but i i feel like the impossible syndrome that you were talking about. I don't think I have the imposter syndrome. I hate labeled. I get it. But it's like those things. I'm like to say it when it's something also, it's not like I'm trying to be like an accountant. Yeah. I'm trying to be this like annoying thing that so many people want to, you know, it's like that thing where I'm like, you look from the outside in and you're like can kind of cringe.

But you're like, it's not like you're saying that and you're fucking like not doing anything of the sort. I think you should say the most ridiculous dreams you could ever have. Because I always say, maybe I said this on Jason's podcast was like, you've got to be a little bit delusional to like have success in any industry. But especially in this, like, think that you can be on TV. Have your own show. It's like the inner voice like, who do you think you are? And then you have to answer that and be like, no, no, no, I can fucking do it. I agree. I have the most delusional vision board when I was 25 of what I wanted to do in life. And it was literally like have my own radio show be an entrepreneur, get on TV, have a golden retriever. I wanted a 69 custom-built Bronco, which I get it in February. Hey. Like it's, you've got to be delusional. I love that. I love that. Kailen Bristow, be delusional. Okay. I'm so happy you were on the show. Thank you for having me. It was like a dream come true. It was on my 2015 vision board. See? Did you say it out loud? I've said it. Yeah, and emails that weren't responded to. No, I'm just kidding. Maybe. I need to look back and look. I need to do a Chris Harrison name-dropping episode.

These are the people that, okay. Yeah. Caitlin, thank you. This was so fun. Thanks for having me. Of course. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Not Skinny but Not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny but Not Fat.

Subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcast and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocharoo. Thank you guys so much for listening. And I'll see you next Tuesday. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.