Not Skinny But Not Fat - Katie Maloney on Scandoval

Episode Date: May 16, 2023

Katie is in studio to discuss all things Scandoval! Katie opens up about the divorce - did Schwartz try to fight for her? Where does she stand with him now? Are her and Scheana all made up? And does she rly think Raquel is in a mental health facility? You don’t want to miss this one!   Produced by Dear Media This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. This is Amanda Hirsch from the Not Skinny but Not Fat podcast. You might know me from Not Skinny Bonifah on Instagram where I spend my time talking about reality TV, celebrities, everything happening, and pop culture. I also talk to some of our favorite celebs and reality TV stars. We talk about what's going on. Tune in every Tuesday and just feel like you're talking about your best friends in your living room. I'm so excited for today's episode, you guys, Katie Maloney is on the podcast today.

We've podcasted a bunch of times together. I love her dearly. And today she's in studio with me. And we get to talk about the freaking shit show that went on. So I hope you enjoy this episode. As always, if you guys can rate and review the podcast on Apple Podcasts, I'd really, really appreciate it. So even take a moment right now, stop the podcast, rate and review it, show some love. Enjoy.

Katie Maloney. Amanda. Katie, wow. Yeah. So much shit has happened. I know. See, I told you. I was like, you wait.

I was like, Katie, when are you coming on? She's like, wait a little bit longer. I was like, when are you coming on? You're like, no, few more episodes. but it's like, no, it keeps on happening. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just, I, the thing is, I feel like it's like this every season. I always want to wait until things start happening.

Right. So it's so hard to talk about anything so early on because it's just there's not a lot happening. And then it's just like teasing. It's like, keep watching. Right. You know, you can't give things away. You can't spoil anything.

What's so wild, though, is like, we're watching and we, we, know what we know and it looks like you should all fucking know too correct so tell me about that so how is all this happening all the speculation you say about the one a.m. at the what was it called that place the abbey right alley la la la has all these like crazy witch intuition all this is happening but still it was a huge shock when it broke yeah well because the the shock of it was the details really and the length and they think just the confirmation of it all because obviously I felt I felt from where I was sitting that their friendship Tom and Rachel's friendship was inappropriate and I mean you can have female friendships you can you know and it can be

platonic you can all be close in a group like that but there was just something off about it something that just didn't sit well with me and it wasn't until we wrapped almost that things started to really get funny to me. Oh, okay. So while there was stuff happening, obviously, towards the end of the season, you know, even, you know, with the stuff of the Abby,

her staying in the night at the house. Dipping out, not dipping out. Dipping out. Do L.A. people really say dipping out? Not like that. Not like a thousand times. No. In a sentence.

I don't know if I've said dip out. Wait, and Ken coming in when you were making the sandwiches. People thought that scene was a little weird. Like, Ken all of a sudden being involved in the drama? Well, I... How weird is that? It was because we were just, like, making sandwiches, doing our thing.

Ken just comes to the kitchen. He's like, that's crazy that... Sineville had Raquel and Jacquezzi. And you look genuinely shocked, though. Yeah, and then he just, like, leave. I was like, hold on, wait a minute. What was that? Like, was he joking?

Was, because Ken, you know, he can be very dry, sarcastic. His, like, English humor, you know? And Lisa's like, no, no, no, no, that happened. And so she was explaining to me that Raquel showed up late to sir because the night before, after the beach, they were at Santa Bowles. And I was like, wait a minute. Ariana was gone. She was back in Florida. And I was like, does she know?

Like, did, because her reaction on the show was, yeah, slept over as you do. Like we all saw it. She was like, normal. Right? You went to the hot tub, normal. Did anybody try to like say anything to her? Like. Of course.

Oh, yeah? Okay, they didn't show it. Yeah, I know. No, I face-timed her, actually, in that scene. Oh. And I asked her, and she was going through a lot. And I felt bad bringing this to her. Like, you're literally at home with your, and also, this was remember when Florida was having those crazy hurricanes? Yeah. So everyone was like, maybe having to evacuate, not having to evacuate.

So I was like, all right, not only are you dealing with the death of your grandmother, but you're having these crazy weather storms. I think her mom had like broken her wrists. And I was like, hey, do you know where Kel's lived in your house? But you still said that. Yeah. Well, and she said it's cool. She was like, you know, well, yeah, we have people sleep at our house all the time.

And I'm like, well, for me, it's like, okay, well, I understand, like, been there for sure with, like, friends, like, they'll crash at our place when we're all, like, hanging out. But if I'm not home, I don't, I don't think I would expect my friends. to be like sleeping over with like just my husband there, my boyfriend. You know, I think it just for optics alone. You're right. Like it doesn't look good. Even if you trust them, it doesn't look good. Yeah.

Especially with just people cordy kind of questioning things and. But when you FaceTime to her, was this after you, the whole drama that that you kind of said about the open relationship or so that translated and she was upset with you? Listen, I never said. No, I know you never said. Ali translated that way, but Ariana, like, heard it through the grapevine and whatever. Yeah, and also that, that on top of it, too, of her thinking that I'm maybe thinking that I'm saying these things as well. And I'm like, God, I really just don't want to be having to add to all of this.

So, yeah. But it was after it that you FaceTime to her about the thing. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. She has balls. I would feel like you would maybe be like, oh, I don't want to, like, say anything about the relationship. because like I want her to think that I think stuff was she looking back do you think she was like she put a blindfold on like what was happening I don't know if she was just putting a blindfold or just blindly trusting people or just really thinking that if you're my friend and you've you know shown me who you are and I believed who you are and all that that you know some people just want to believe that like if you were my friend and I believe that I can trust you as my friend and you've told me I can trust you as your friend that like why should I question no one wants to walk through life thinking that

that they need to keep one eye open and not trust the people that they've invited into their lives. And especially Raquel. It seemed like Sheena and Ariana were both just blindly trusting of her, like thought,

and she did put on in this act the first few seasons of like, you know, the Bambi-eyed bitch, you know, quibbers when she says your name. Like, and the amount that she was capable,

like no one thought. Well, Lala saw through that. I definitely saw through that in a different side of her this season this past summer, you know, when I came to her and was really trying to make a friendship with her and trying to get... I was, exactly. I was very forgiving and was like,

let's try this. I understand you've been maybe getting some bad advice and fucking up and you seem to have recognized that and you seem to apologize. So let's just try this. And the fact that she just couldn't and wouldn't and was just going out of her way almost to be awful towards me.

Right. That's why when Christina had her heart spring party at TomTom, and I'm talking to Ariana, and we're kind of talking about the, you know, open relationship rumor and trying to squash that.

And I'm telling her about Raquel, it's just saying, you know, I don't think this is a trustworthy person. I know she's your friend, but I don't think, I think this is a character flaw in her that she just is a deceptive person, that she just isn't a good person.

And that's so foreshadowy, because, like, you didn't, At that point, what was going on in your head about Sandoval and Raquel? At that point, where you're like, I think this might be, but I'm not sure. Something might have happened, but I don't know. Like, where were you in your, or you just thought in general, Raquel wasn't? Just starting to think in general that she, I just don't think she's the type of person that is this way to some people, not everyone. Right. You know.

It was wild that you gave her, like, those scenes of you inviting her to that dinner and her being like, kind of instigating like everything's fine you're having a nice dinner and then she decides to tell you she asked for it's to make out it's almost like i called it like socio and i don't want to put a nat moment because i actually don't know like what her issue is but it was almost like why would she in that moment do that like you've included her weirdly she's there weirdly and here she is like throwing what is it called wood into the fire like what are you doing that you're saying this right now and constantly egging the situation on and then at china's wedding coming to your room and volunteering is tribute do you believe shena then in retrospect she said that she didn't

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One more time, my kitch.com slash not skinny for 30% off. your order. We need to talk about this Mexico thing because you know I always have your back but I was shocked that you went through with it. I was shocked that you went through with it. Like that's like what was going on in your head? So people, I mean, everyone knows, but it's like Sheena was going to get married because of everything that went down. You weren't going to go even though you plan on going. You had a room. You didn't forego it. Well, here's the thing also. Sheena actually, when I said, listen, I don't think it's a good idea for me to attend the wedding. did at first tell me well you still have your you know room there you should still go

and i was and i and at first i was like okay i'm not sure i'm going to think about it i'm going to think about it maybe i'll still go maybe i'll bring a friend and still go and just kind of do my own thing i'm not going to like overstep so at first she did she did she did tell me i should still go because my room was she's like well your room is non-refundable so you should probably least will go. And so... weren't you afraid it was going to be awkward? No, because I was thinking that the...

I was thinking that the resort was a little bit bigger than it was because those resorts can be huge. Like, it is possible to, like, not run into people. It definitely is. Was there anything? Because you know how, like, Bravo fans have their speculation. So everyone's like, well, she, you know, had to film. She wanted to miss out on filming days.

There's truth to that. Yeah. For the filming situation. Yeah, I mean, it's... But you're... could have just then gone to the wedding. Well, no. I wasn't going to go to the wedding.

I wasn't going to crash the wedding. Wait, what do you mean crash? But you were invited. Are you the one that said you're not going to come or did she disinvite you? I opted out. You opted out. And to be clear, because of the Raquel stuff. Or was there more going on?

I mean, it was the Raquel. It was the way Sheena was kind of really taking sides in the situation with Tom. It was just how I felt around a lot of the people within that group. I didn't really feel supported around them. Individually, like when I was one-on-one with like Ariana, I felt great. When I was, you know, it was fine. But as a group, they definitely were more supportive and rallying around Tom. Right.

So I felt very uncomfortable and very alone. Right. Because the whole she, no, because I'm looking back, I'm like, right. Because, like, Sheena, the way she was with Schwartz, trying to, even not the Raquel, but, like, telling him to get out there, telling him, how did she know about stuff that you did when she was like, Katie already did this? Would you confide in her? We were having, like, a girly chat, you know, just something like, you're just like, oh, yeah, like, I'm in doing, like, just kind of in passing, you know, whatever just sort of told her just. And I was pretty clear that, like, you know, obviously this is stuff I'm doing kind of. out, like, off his doorstep.

I don't want to bring it to him. I want to, you know, be respectful. Yeah. So for her to offer up the information was, was, you know, that aside from the Raquel stuff was also, like, very, like, hurtful and frustrating to me that she would do that because it was like she was really actively driving wedge between me and Tom because it's like, I didn't want him to know that. Yeah.

Like, that's weird. Like, it's like, do you want him to hate me? Like, because if I wanted him to know this, stuff. I would be just doing it willingly in front of, yeah. But I've been, I've been really careful to not do that for a reason. So, yeah, I mean. So it makes that, like, I don't feel like there are any, I feel like it was a blatant, you know, Katie's right in this situation. Or do you feel like people didn't understand your, because, okay, people looked at that situation and looked at it like just more about your rule, quote unquote of, no, not in the friend group. Which

it wasn't a rule. This was not a rule. So when Tom and I separated, he like immediately wanted to be in just like besties and hang out. And I knew, I was like, okay, like I, he was very into like bubbing you up all day. Yeah. And I was like, I need a little space and time. Like we really didn't have any distance or separation. Like we pretty much did go from being married, husband and wife to being friends. So for me, you know, and then when we were going to be going into filming, I was just like, you know, I want to maintain a friendship with you. But in order to do that, like, there's going to be and boundaries, there's going to be some things I think need to be in place in order for us to be doing this in a healthy, non-toxic way. And if it's going to involve you hooking up with people

on the show or in this friend group, that's going to make it hard because I don't want to have to be talking about what you're doing. Were you planning on not hooking up then on the show, friend group and external people? I just didn't want to have to throw it in his face. Yeah. Because it just makes it. Like, let's be respectful. It was a respect. It was a respect thing because it's just we weren't even officially divorced yet. It's still felt fresh. We were still trying to figure out our friendship and navigating that space between us. That's what boundaries are.

It's not about throwing up walls or putting up rules. It's just about navigating that space between us. And I wanted to do that in a healthy way. I didn't want to be another Vanderpump rule statistic where we start just hooking up with in a friend group. Well, that's a thing that shocked me that people don't understand. This is not like, people were like, oh, they're officially divorced. So like whatever.

it's like these two were reality show aside you know together for 12 years yeah this isn't like a you know quicky wedding situation where this is a long as term it's not shocking to like have some not rules but like respect each other just like and also honor the fact that we had a marriage honor the fact that we had spent that time together not cheap in it it felt like it felt cheap well let's talk So, yeah, so, like, I just want to say that. Yeah. He was more, like, you could. I didn't say he couldn't.

You are more than welcome to, but that's going to make a friendship between us very difficult. So, like, so choose. Like, if you want to be friends, then this is sort of, like, how we need to navigate things. I'm not saying you could never hook up with someone in this group or, you know, anything like that, but I'm just saying right now, like, this is what I'm going to need. Yeah, and he agreed. So he's like, yeah, no, like, I don't, there's literally no one I want to anyway.

So this is like a non-issue. And I was like, perfect then. And we don't need to have the stock anymore. Let's talk about the divorce a little bit. Because even I was shocked. I remember it came out in like TMC. I don't know where it first came out. And people were sending it to me.

And I was like, no. No. I couldn't believe it. Then I remember I texted. I was like, Katie. And you were like, no, yeah. I was like, what? Like, and I mean now looking back and having this, you know,

issues this season remind us of past issues but like and I think I told you this confident like to you but like whoa like at the end of the day it was kind of your decision yeah right and was it something that happened was it a culmination of years of of stuff yeah it was yeah no it wasn't like an event that happened that decided it was I think it was me just really working on my own damn self and building my own confidence. And then as I built that up, I kind of was able to look at my life and realize that I wasn't happy, that I wanted more. I deserved more. And had to really be honest with myself that, you know, that Tom was probably never going to be that person for me. And it was really sad because I obviously loved him. And like there's, it was really such a

dilemma because when you are in love with somebody and you want to be with them, but they're just not right for you and they're just not going to choose you, it sucks because you just there's nothing you can do. Incredible and strong and badass of you to not have an event or this like, you know, balls to the wall situation, but like really taking that time and making a decision that's fucking hard because like love aside, there was friendship there is your person that you lived with that you shared a life with did everything with consigned it in and like that's like a really brave decision yeah it was having to walk away from just all of that and the yeah but and knowing that's

going to complicate things with like the friends yeah and the house that you bought together and like everything yeah but so brave i wanted to be very just really happy and if in and if it meant just being alone and great because I wasn't happy and I felt very isolated being in something that wasn't was he ever like in your relationship that guy that you thought he could be at times like I said it's not like it was all bad like I like we we had so much fun together like I loved being with him and we had a great friendship like I said but it just it was missing that element it was missing that that partner and that person that was going to root for me and really support me and validate my emotions and feelings. I wasn't like I felt like it was difficult for me to

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saw him on the show not supporting you in fights with other people and blah blah blah was that going on like in smaller stuff in life too or is that mostly like in vanderpump roles yeah i mean we didn't have tons of fights you know all the time like it was always kind of like exacerbated on the show i felt like but it's still like mattered you know yeah it's in and thinking about the rest of my life and with bigger things we're going to come up and i was going to really need someone by my side like is he going to be able to rise to the occasion did he try to say like i'm going to do better like i'm going to have your back more no he didn't he accepted your basically yeah okay yeah and even this season you know we see that situation i mean that dinner in

mexico was pretty infuriating like you thought you were celebrating the sale of the house yeah we closed on our house it was also like the same week as of what would have been our sixth wedding anniversary so it was a very like intense week like i was definitely like all those like first after you get divorced or like so odd feeling you know like there's like the first holidays after and you just feel it's so like out of body and you don't know how to like process so having the closing of our house fall in the same week of that anniversary was just really difficult and that you know and so so having just like a little dinner as odd as some people thought it would be and didn't agree with it because they wouldn't do that fine.

That's, you know, teach their own. And then so for him to behave that way and then turn around and decide he's going to, you know, kiss or whatever with Raquel was just like. The worst kiss ever. It's gross. So gross. Yeah. Based on principle alone. It was just like such a slap in the face, you know?

Especially. Did you think like when you thought about it intricately, like did you think, okay, if he was in love with her and he was like, this is a girl my dreams, then you know what? there's a world in which I could have accepted it. But if this is just for fucks and giggles, then, like, then why? I wish. I was just like, you know what? If I would be able to understand this, if they were like, you know what, we can't help it. Like, we are drawn to each other. We, like, really dig each other. I would be like, you know what? I can't stand in your way. Like, I'm going to have to, I'm just going to have

to accept this. Yeah. And put my feelings aside. I'd said that multiple times. But I'm like, but. But this little game, this high school shit. This feels like, you're going to do this for this high school shit. Exactly. I was like, you can't help who you fall in. in love with you can't help that you can help where you fuck like please let's just be honest like you like when it comes down to that like like there was no fucking yeah and the whole decoy shit what do you think of that i think he schwartz became aware of what was happening this is just my yeah after this stuff in mexico i think rquel rachel i don't know what to call her either i think It was less of like they had this whole thing

mapped out of how they were going to handle this summer. I think her in Sanneville just acting just on impulse most of the time and being just really reckless. And I think she was at times trying to maybe make Sanibal jealous or just kind of be like, well, I'm going to do my thing because I'm single. You have a girlfriend. She said it in front of the way she would say it is like,

want to make out what? Like just weird. Like nobody talks like that. Like maybe she was trying to piss. love Sandoval. Yeah. And I mean, who better to upset him than his best friend? Oh, my God. You know, and so I think the reason why Sandoval told Schwartz, you know, after all of that, was because he didn't want that to continue. He needed Schwartz to like, no. I see. So, like, that's the only thing that makes sense, you know, but now Schwartz is, like, burdened with this. And of course,

like, that's, like, his boy that he, you know, he will do anything for, obviously. Well, I talked to you about this privately because I actually don't know how to feel. Do you really think that Schwartz, the minute he knew should have told on him or whatever or came to Ariana or because I'm conflicted because of course I think it's gross.

Of course. And of course it'd be gross if he was playing along with it. But I also feel like okay, is his best friend. Should he have betrayed him? Yeah. And come to Ariana. And people were like, Ariana was his best man. Or she was a groomsman.

She was a groomsman in your wedding. I mean. Is she mad at Schwartz at all? Of course she's upset. She's grossed up with him. I think. Because she would have expected him to say something. Well, I think when, when, because the way he's saying that he found out in January that this affair had been happening.

So in that case, like, yeah, if you're saying that you found out that there had been an affair happening, yeah, I think you need. Right. Because when did it break to the world like March? Mm-hmm. Okay, so like a few months. Yeah, but if he's saying he found out that they had just like hooked up, like, I don't know. They've been covering for each other in their gross ways for like years. So like he'd never told on him before.

Is there any part of you? Because I feel like you didn't like Tom Sandoval for years. We've been not getting along for some time. Yeah. So now look, because like so many in small ways. Like just small things all the time happening. Hey, I'm getting upset with you. you getting upset with him, you getting upset with Schwartz for, you know, taking his side or

whatever, looking back, are you like, damn, and I knew. I knew something was, because my thing about the whole sand of all thing is like, because I'm trying to find the recipe that created this crazy explosion. Because, I mean, at the end, it's cheating, right? And Bravo had cheating stuff. And I'm trying to figure out, I'm doing my thesis. I'm doing my doctorate. and why this became so big.

What are the elements of it that made it explode this way? It's the relationships, the interpersonal relationships involved with it because it's like it is the deception and just the nefarious nature of it all, the relationship with Raquel and Ariana, the way that she would just allow Ariana to love on her and be best friends with her

and hold her and hold her hand across the table and talk about and allow Ariana to open up about her relationship with Sandoval to her and have those kind of conversations is so sick and awful and just be carrying on behind her back you know like that that is why it's so crazy. You think that word is grosser than the Sandoval part? Well, I mean, that's I mean, I'm saying it's it's compounding elements that just that have like just exploded. into one another. And then, you know, Sandoval just being just so selfish and narcissistic about it all that, like, you know, he wants to write himself as the victim in this story that, you know, he was not getting

enough love and attention in his relationship, but not putting in any work or effort while Erin is like laying out exactly what she needs too. Like, let's spend more time together. This is what I need. What do you need? Like, like, she, she's having the conversation she's doing the work and he's acting like he wasn't getting anything out of it that like he's just been alone in this relationship so he's had to seek out it's just like it is it's just this is why you know and like and so he went to the person just right next to her like oh it i mean do you think another reason could be because this is i feel like one of my paragraphs in i thesis like i feel like he wasn't likable all these years and there was

never really a reason because I was thinking another paragraph in my thesis is he was never a likable character but we never could really explain why because it was like okay he looks like he's a good friend right to Schwartz and and at the time jacks fucked him over or whatever you know and then it was like all these and then he was like a boyfriend good boyfriend Ariana seemingly and it's like why is there something off with this guy and finally we kind of get the confirmation that like he's not a good guy and i mean sasi had issues with him and you had issues with him and well because all that's up he's always willing to throw someone else under the bus or go to the most easy scapego person you know to to to just deflect he's a master deflector yeah and just to turn

anything away from him what did you think of his interview on howie mendel Did you listen? Dumpster fire. Dumpster fire. Like, well, I just had a hard time because it's just like the Ariana's slander of it all. Like immediately starting off with a lie that, because he was talking about the wedding that, so Jason and his wife that works for Howie, there was a wedding. And they were talking about how, like, how he was like, yeah, I saw you at the wedding.

I didn't see Ariana there. So, yeah, you've just been flying solo in life, poor you. And I was like, yeah, she didn't want to come. I'm like, dude, she had the COVID. She couldn't come to the wedding. Why are you acting? Like, she just like opted out. sick she could go like he's trying like why are you lying already like it's just like no no

no this you ain't gonna do this do you think they'll end up together Raquel and sandy is there a world I mean I doubt it but it's at this point it's like you may as well give it a shot like that's how I feel hey truly if you're gonna blow up your life you may as well give it a go here I think that's my reasoning because I knew I had a reason I think James said it on the show too or like somebody else I was like, hmm, that's why. Because I was trying to understand myself and why I'm like, just be together then. Like, exactly. And it's because of that.

Like, if you're going to do all of this hurt so many people, what do you think about her whole like PR situation that's going on? I mean, is, okay, let's start with this. Is there any part of you that does feel bad for the bullying and the like, whatever she's going through obviously because of what she did? Not to sound crass, but like, not really. I think and I've and I said this somewhere on like someone someone wrote a post about it and I comments and I said when you are morally bankrupt and you cause this kind of chaos like you like you need to be equipped to deal with a backlash yeah you can't just move through life wrecking shit and then not be prepared to to clean up after yourself yeah like it sucks sure it can't be easy dealing with people hating you the world just just constantly coming at you but You caused this.

Yeah. You caused this. Like, I don't know how you thought it was going to turn out or how you thought it was going to shake out. Yeah. Like, if anything, if this is normal life, maybe you could have gotten away with it, right? It still wouldn't be great. You still would probably lose all your friends. Right.

But you're doing this on, like, on a television show. Yeah. With, okay, so you think she's at a mental health facility right now, like, getting treated? No. I think she's just laying like I think she's probably like her parent or she just is like she just is off the grid Right now. But I've you know I've heard as much we like as much as everyone else has heard that they've seen like her around and I think she just is yeah just keeping a low profile and I'm not saying that she's maybe not seeing a therapist or something but do you think she might be okay like in terms of like is she actually socio and like she might be okay because a normal person wouldn't be okay right? right now not to like psychoanalyze because i'm not equipped to do that i'm not like you know but i mean it definitely takes a dark individual to carry out something like this and i don't and like

like from when i've seen her and like like just everything like i mean on the show the the the the preview for for this week's episode was like you know her laughing with sandovon being like oh my god we didn't think it would turn out this way oh for like the finale yeah yeah Oh, sorry for the finale and a little giggle, you know, and all of that. And also just in general, how she's changed on the show from like the, you know, to like this, I don't know, something a little scary is going on there. Yeah. Well, just her saying, like, you know, I had to keep up a certain look or whatever for pageant world. And now that I don't, like, what you can just like, let your freak flag fly?

like it's very eye opening it's well you're obviously done with her like you've never listen i tried no thank you we good i'm good on that way i don't i don't need that kind of crazy in my life and so where do you stand though with schwartz you now present day it's been difficult like i mean we we the communication we have is just with dogs you know because that's we still you still do that yeah that's going to continue knew like forever i'm not going to stop seeing my dogs so and he's not going to stop seeing okay dog so yeah you know but how old are they i'm like when are they going to die no i don't no no no why would you do that no no i'm sorry what i meant is how like just to know are they three

or are they seven you know butter is i think he'll be seven later this year and gordos like 10 or 11 okay so like five more Stop it. You're so rude. You're evil. I say that about my own dog. I'm just like realistic. I hope Gordo and Butter live to 20 in dog years.

They might. I'm just wondering. In dog years. Wait. So main communication is the dog. Yeah. But on the show, he said he used to hang out a little bit chit chat and that kind of like faded towards. Yeah.

Yeah. Because and just like for just friendships in my life in general, just exes with Tom, you know, I want friendships that with people that respect me and I respect them and it's like. Did he ever apologize for what happened in Mexico? Not really. No, he says he doesn't need to apologize. He didn't do anything wrong. Does your mom still like him? Because like, you know I love Terry, but like the fact that they have like a good, because he like loves her separately, right? And it makes sense. Like you were married and together for a lot of years. Does your mom still have a place for him in her heart? She tried.

I think, but like not really, you know, it's just my family in general watching the show is having a really difficult time, summicking him. Yeah. Because they've, you know, loved and knew him for years, but watching it, they're like, I don't know this person. Right. And it angers them just to see him be so disrespectful and gross. And then not having your back thing, I feel like in your thesis and doctorate that has been

going on for seasons, right? And I feel like if a viewer might have been like, what is she talking about? You know, I feel like finally everyone is seeing what you're talking about. Do you get what I mean? Do you feel validated in that way? I totally do. Yeah. Yeah, because, I mean.

Because you've been saying it and people were like, oh, you know, Katie's this. It didn't really shine through. And I feel like it now, sadly, I mean, it's not like we want all this happen. but we're like, oh my God, we're actually seeing it time and time again of like not having your back, not supporting you and actually doing the opposite in probably any given situation. Like having Sheena's back in that situation, not being able to say like, no, it is weird she would do that or like, yeah, it's kind of fucked up, you know, even in that situation. Where do you stand with Sheena now?

Like, I feel like you guys are in the same room lately. Yeah. I mean, I've seen her more in the last, you know, month or two than I have. since last summer, you know? Because really, after Sanneville's show at the Canyon Club when we got into it, I didn't really see much of her. We really kind of avoided each other. I saw her in the lobby in Mexico, the hotel, but really didn't see her.

But when everything, you know, came out in March with this Tom or Cal stuff, we kind of set all that aside just to be there for Ariana. you know that stuff seemed kind of small right so you were both there for ariana and that's how but did you like talk about stuff yeah and you'll see a little bit of that but we don't obviously get too much into that because we're there's other stuff there's other stuff to talk about but i think you know just in in her from her perspective and in her mind i think this has been a very humbling thing for her because she was very duped by rakel oh my god and she went to bat for her and was protecting her against everything else that happened.

And it's funny how protective people are of her. Yeah. And I think she had also only hearing Raquel's side of things and then watching the season back and seeing me and my side of things and my perspective and how hurt I was by everything. And I wish she just kind of already had known that because it's like, well, I don't think you need to like, have only heard seen the show i mean like i was going through a pretty significant transition

why it bothers you like you you explained why it wasn't okay to do what she did yeah yeah so i think but she's she's you know apologized a lot and have you accepted the apology yeah i mean listen like apologies are are great like it it is meaningful for somebody to humble themselves and to you know be accountable and take responsibility and say they're sorry but you know for me it's unless there's going to be action put behind that and you know behavior changed it doesn't go very far you know what I mean because it's like for for she and it's I feel like we've kind of like this has been a bit cyclical with us over the last 10 years where it's like something will happen there'll be apologies and then you know there'll be another situation that pops up and it's

be like, okay, which way are we going to go? Yeah. And I feel like she kind of always goes against me in a way. So we'll see. I feel hopeful. I would like us to like for once and for all like find our way back to a friendship. Well, her and Lala are like super close now. Yeah.

Like they actually, their relationship seems to be totally different than what it used to be. So who knows? Yeah, yeah. We'll see. Who knows? Okay. We got to give a minute to set. Because I said his name right.

Whenever I used to, whenever I asked Katie about him, I don't even know what names I call them. Like weird names. Because who, because what the fuck is Satchel? What the fuck is Satchel? What do you mean? What is that name? It's his name. You're so accepting.

It's a wild name. Yeah. Yeah. It's a wild name. He was on the show a little bit in the background. Nuzzlein. Is he still in your life? No.

Not at all? Oh, okay. No, he's, he's so sweet. And was he like, where the fuck am I? Yeah. Yeah, no, I, I. You brought him into like the fire. Chaos.

I know. And I was, I was hesitant to, you know, but. And people are talking about you, like, in front of, were you not concerned with that at all? Yeah, but the thing is, is I. Sanfault was yelling you in front of it. I would tell him about it. You know, it's like he, he already knew. what was happening even if he wasn't there I would talk to him about it and like he was always

like very supportive and does he know about the show like he had watched the show before no he didn't watch it we believe that he didn't watch yeah okay for sure not his type of show not satchel's type of show no usually 25 year old dudes like aren't just like unless unless they have like a mom or sister girlfriend or someone that's made them watch in the past yeah that's not really like so were you planning on not bringing him around until like you were like fuck this, like if Tom doesn't give a shit out. And it was, I really wasn't being retaliatory. It just, like, was kind of like, you know what?

Like, I've been so respectful in keeping someone private. And it's like, why shouldn't I be able to bring like a date around? Like, why am I being, why am I tiptoeing? Yeah. You know, like, I should just, you know, I'm, I'm, why not? It's Schwartz dating now? I don't know. You don't know.

I have no idea. I don't know what he does. And I don't ask. And you don't ask. So what's going to happen? do you think in the future, like, of Vanderpump roles? Oh, my God. Such a good question.

What would you want to see on the show? I want to see more just, like, of, like, female empowerment. I think we've got a lot of badass women doing... Single women? Bad ass things. Yeah. I mean, like, this, like, this show, like, now it looks totally different. I mean, obviously this past season was kind of wild, like, going in, like, me and

and Lala were single for the first time, you know? or I was single for the first time ever. Bala was out of her relationship. And then now Ariana's life is completely different. Well, Ariana's dating like a dude pretty seriously looks like on Instagram. Yeah, she's got a guy. But I mean, just saying like her light, it's just like it's not the same. It's just, yeah.

So I think there's just some cool opportunity there to explore like that angle of things. But I mean, who knows? I think I think there's just some opportunity to do something with. cool and take it in a direction that you know do you think we're kell and sandoval will be back god that's a million dollar question i think yes i i mean i think if if the past will be this you know and i'm sure i'm sure and if history would repeat itself yeah thank you if history big word katie lost her words over there no problem hey listen i'm so magnanimous I don't remember that.

You remember that? Yeah, of course. Really? No, I'm just saying my brain is a little mushy from being in all the different time zones in the last, whatever. Well, you look amazing. Let's give that a moment because, like, fucking hot. You're killing it. I love you.

I'm so happy that you're where you are right now. I'm so happy that you had the, like, many redemption vibes this season and that you're getting some very deserved love. Thank you. It feels good. Yay. Finally. Finally. Well, yeah. I mean, listen, it's been 10 years. She's been through it. It's been rough. Yeah. Well, I love you. Thank you for coming on. Oh, I love you. Thanks for having me. Anytime. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Not Skinny, but Not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny, but Not Fat. Subscribe to the podcast. We don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcast and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocheroo. Thank you guys so much for listening, and I'll see you next Tuesday.

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