Not Skinny But Not Fat - Kimora Lee Simons is Back in the Fab Lane

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

She’s baaaack…. This week I chat with Kimora Lee Simmons who is back in the fab lane! Literally, her show is back on E! 14 years later. We talk about turning 50 and somehow looking 25, & being a single mom of five kids, with no involvement from the fathers. She shares her feelings on her daughter Aoki dating a 65 year old and what tips she gave her kids before coming back to tv. Is she dating? What is she looking for? We discuss her iconic brand Baby Phat then & now and more!!!This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.Head to Columbia.com to get your hands on an Amaze Puff jacket - they're tough on cold, soft on you.Visit CleanSimpleEats.com - https://glnk.io/73q00/NOTSKINNY20 - and use code NOTSKINNY10 at checkout for 10% off your FIRST order PLUS free shipping.Do what I did, order Magnetic Me today to make changing time easier for you and your little one. And these make a great gift for friends or family with babies, too! New customers get 15% off your first order when you go to MagneticMe.com.Right now, IQBAR is offering our special podcast listeners twenty percent off all IQBAR products—including the sampler pack—plus FREE shipping. To get your twenty percent off, text NOTSKINNY to 64000. Message and data rates may apply. See terms for details.Get an extra $100 site credit when you sell for the first time on therealreal.com/notskinnyGo to ritual.com/notskinny for 40% off your first month subscription and early access to their Black Friday sale!Get 45% off your first subscript onrder of 30-servings of Coffee+ with. You'll also receive a starter kit with over $100 in free gifts by going to everydaydose.com/NOTSKINNY or entering NOTSKINNY at checkoutLearn more at weightwatchers.comProduced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to the not skinny but not fat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch, and I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars on my very own podcast where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. Hey guys, happy Tuesday. I hope everyone's warm. I'm freezing.

It is freezing in New York. And I'm not complaining. Listen, I really do have this like general optimism about weather. Like, I'm not the guy to be like it's so like I live in New York. I live on the East Coast. It's going to be cold. Like, it is what it is. Luckily, I'm not walking the fucking streets.

You know, I'm not a tourist trying to like hang out at Times Square. Like, I'm going to be in and out. out. Yes, usually of an Uber. Like, if I don't want to freeze my face off, then I won't. I was actually at an event. I went to the housemaid premiere, Flex, Flex, Flags. And I, did I wear a coat? Yeah, I wore like a little piquot, but my legs were exposed because of the dress, by the way, I wore this favorite daughter dress. Everybody died over and honestly, like, I wasn't a dress girl until two minutes ago. Okay. I would never wear a dress. And all of a sudden, I'm like, wait, I can wear dresses and, like, not feel weird and, like, they actually look good on me. So confused, but also

obviously not every dress. This dress, it's so good. By the way, the material is, like, kind of cotany. So I feel like you could dress it up or down. Anyway, it's a good one. And my legs were exposed. So for the amount of time that I had to wait for the car outside slash get out of the car, like, I kind of almost cried. So if put in the situation, I'm a pussy, however, I try to avoid the colds, if I can. You know, and if I'm dressed well, it's usually good. I don't tend to want to be in the nude.

Me in the nude, I'm like, literally my calves are out. I'm like, I'm in the nude. Like, literally your cab was out, okay? Like, what is wrong with you? Anyway, housemaid, you guys, stuff I'm going to sound like such a perv, and the movie was good. Okay, followed the book. I read the book.

I know shocking, but I have. So it followed the book, so that's good. But like, when I tell you it's worth it to see just because of Brandon Skelner, whatever the fuck, however the fuck you spell as the name. And also he's a Brandon, not Brendan. And that's also weird for me. I've decided he's Brendan. Him and Sidney's sex scenes, like, I can't describe them. Like, her giant jugs squeezed against his perfect body.

Like, I don't know what to do. We were screaming in the theater. Okay, screaming in the theater. And, like, I don't know how her boobs do that. Like, they're natural, but they're still perky. Like, I don't know. Like, talk to me after she has kids in breast feeds. Like, right now I can.

And, like, Brandon, I can't. I just, it was a lot. So if you want to be turned on, go fucking watch that movie. Anyway, on to today's show, you guys. Today we have a legend, okay? A woman who is not only an entrepreneur. she's a mom. She has five plus kids. She has a billion businesses and not a fucking single wrinkle. It's Camora Lee Simmons and she is back. She's turned 50. She looks literally insane

and she's back on our TV after 14 years with her new show, Camora, back in the fab lane. We talk about when made her come back, whether her kids are looking to get famous. And if she worries about them getting in those headlines. If you remember, one of her daughters was seen with, like, a really old guy. We talk about that. We talk about if the dads are involved in their lives. We talk about baby fat with a pee, fat with a pee. Honestly, baby fat, like, I really remember in high school, like, hearing about baby fat.

Like, it was just part of the culture, like, not the culture, again, that I could afford, but I would want to. You know what I mean? She honestly is a cultural icon. She's one of a kind. And she's raw and she's funny and she's honest and she's fab. So enjoy my convo with the one, the only, Camora Lee Simmons. Camorra Lee Simmons is here, the OG, reality TV, businesswoman, mega mom, everything.

And you're back. And you're back. Bitches. Bitches. Can you say that? Yeah. So back. And also I didn't realize that when you started your show,

in 2007. Oh, my God. In the Fablane. It was the same year the Kardashians started. So you were like same time as them originating, family, reality TV. I don't even remember if that's when they started.

I looked it up. Is that true? I fact checked. And you started in 2007 as well. Yeah, I did. Yeah, it was early, early days. Like, I remember before us was maybe like Osbournes or something

and it was a different format. That's why I always say them because people need to know that's a different format. where it is reality, but it's like where cameras are actually everywhere, like maybe even in the bathroom, I don't know, like for them. For them. Remember the whole house was kind of rigged? I don't watch a lot of TV, but I know it was rigged. Like you walk from one room to the next and it's there, they're there. I'm sure you have shows now that are like game competition. Like big brother,

big brother, that kind of vibe. Exactly. It was like that. Yeah. So yours was kind of. So we were right after that as a family though. So it's like kind of showing everything but not rigged up station to the wall. You can go. what's high. It's not like you're not stuck to the confines of your home. Right. We were doing things. This is back then. We were showing business and fashion shows and production and like so much fun stuff, which we are now too. But like that's when we started. How did that start? Do you remember the show? Like somebody approached you? Yeah. It was E. It's always E. Always E. Like a family. Not like we are. It's been a lot of years. And yeah, they approached me to,

I don't even know. I don't even know where the conversation. started, but I know that it started and it was a conversation, yeah. And now 14 years... A thousand years later. You're back. I'm back? On TV. How do you... How did that decision come? Like, this is time. We have a lot going on. Kids are grown. I always have a lot going on. I never feel like this is time. I wasn't quite ready for this either. It's kind of like something that, and people who know me, certainly people who are in the on this side of things with us who know me know that I was very like noncommittal to this for years. A lot of people would say there's a lot of like comments and stories and articles and interviews and just wherever you get information. There's a lot of

information saying like come back to TV or the fabulous family or bring back the fabulosity. So I know it's a thing. But I just wasn't ever sure when to do it or even how to do it. It's weird for me. How to do it is weird for me, which is why. you see that I started with my my cousins, the Kardashians, but I didn't go to. I just say that because we started to get kind of the same time. Or like, I can't say sisters because I'm not a sister. Yeah. My babies.

I don't know what to say. Yeah. Cousins. We're good with cousins. I love it. But like they probably have bangs for like 80,000 episodes and I have it. So I go through every, I'm meticulous. And I'm doing like little bits at a time, small batches.

We're small batch here. So it's because of just the whole. thing is a lot for me. Yeah. So I can only take it in like doses. Like you need to know like there's a time that I'm filming. There's a time that I'm, that I'm, that I'm doing what I'm doing, but there's a time that all of this will be there. Or there's a part of that that's someone, a whole other crew or situation is going to be there. Yeah, that's kind of another element to it. Another element, another world, another dimension. Yeah. I need to know that. And all day long, do they get time to do hair and makeup? Because you have hair and makeup. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

No, you got, does anyone think you don't have that? You have that. No, we know now. We know now. Okay, good. Like, I feel like since the housewives, you know, I feel like the house, but do you watch any of those shows, like on Bravo? I don't watch TV.

At all. Not really, no. Really? I'm friends with most of them, most to all of them all over the world. But you don't know the drama or you know the drama. I do know all of that, which is another reason that we got here to Life and the Fowling because I didn't want to go do the housewives and people wanted me to go on there on TV like that.

And I didn't want to, like, fight with these girls. That does make sense. And I didn't want to have like manufactured drama with these girls. Not that it always is. I'm not trying to tell trade secrets. This is just my humble opinion that it's like manufactured crap. Like drama, fighting, bullshit or BS for no reason. And I don't want that.

I don't want you to have to like turn my friend against me for ratings. Yeah. That makes sense because I was going to ask you if you would ever do like a show like that, like Beverly Hills or anything like that. They ask me a lot. They ask you a lot. That's why we're here probably. another reason why I've chosen to go this way.

But you've done on America's Next Top Model now. I did. I started that with Tyra. I started on the first season with her and went through that whole process with her. We were really tight, like besties, like what are BFFs? You're like trying to remember. I remember that. That was a lot.

And I feel like my jacket is just like, there's no shape in there. But it's because you're tall and skinny, you can pull it off. Okay, thanks. I feel like a blob. Does that also mean? Okay, side question. because you're so tall and thin, does it mean that your pregnancies were really,

like was your belly small, was it, did you, you know what I mean? Because I have this new theory that women that are tall. No. Okay, you're just asking. I've had two babies and I have the contemplation of a third, but I got really fat and like some, yeah, they looked at like the tall, skinny ladies that I'm like, oh, they just have a belly.

No. I did just have a belly when I was so, I had Ming and Ioki when I was very young, like early 20s, early 20s and I was married early. So I did that and I did my bounce. The bounce back game is great. And I think it's like the first kid is really no problem. The second one, probably not, but after that it's wild. And when I look back at all these clips, a lot of them I'm like chunky. And my girls were like little, not babies, but little, which tells me that I was in more mom and CEO mode, not like model mode or whatever. Yeah. You can tell I have baby fat. Baby fat, literally. I was carrying it around for a long time.

So I think I started off small, but then it gets like... And do you remember struggling without it all, being a model before? No, because I got out of modeling early, and then I turned that into a fashion and a fashion empire. And that's literally what I was doing. That's the whole point of it. I didn't want to be front and center in something that was like so superficial. I started really young. I was like in St. Louis, Missouri at 10.

11, 12 years old modeling, you know, like puppy food cans or something in St. Louis. And then I went to Paris at 13. So I've been doing this for a long time. And it seemed a little bit, a lot of it, kind of superficial. So then I wanted to turn it into something else. So that's more the business side of it and manufacturing, designing, creating, creative direction. But it's not so much, it's not so much based on how you look only. I think I wanted to get away from that early on. Because Probably you started so young, so by your 20s, you were late 20s, you were over it. I was tired. Yeah.

It's predatory. It's scary. It's rude. Like you don't look at that time back with fond memories of modeling so young? Is that that I don't have fond memories? I have lots of memories. Some are amazingly great. Some are not so fond.

But we're talking more of just looking back at myself in all different flashbacks of stages of my life. and a lot of that was dedicated to motherhood. And I probably still am holding on to it. I'm like, I'm holding on to like baby wave. People are like, hold your baby. I'm like tense. You look beyond. You've turned 50.

This is as good as it. How does that feel turning 50? That's like a big one. Like it's a big birthday. I feel like 40 is a big birthday and then 50 is the next big birthday. Well, I didn't have a big birthday, even though it is like a milestone. But I didn't do that and I don't. I was working.

Actually, I'm probably one of these shows, one of these episodes that you saw for sure. I was working. I don't know. I feel like in great shape. I work out every other day, every other day. Monday, Wednesday, Friday. Sunday? No, Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. So to give yourself like the weekend off? Yeah. I love that. What do you do? You're doing cardio weights? Cardio and weights, yeah. I'm in the gym with the trainer. And I do a little cardio. It's a lot. Well, you look. Not a lot. It's a little, a little of a lot. And it's a lot annoying. But it's a little, the bare minimum to get. And you feel the difference, like, in your body when you're doing it.

Absolutely. You guys have to. I don't even know. What camera is my cameras? Is my camera? That my camera? I don't even know where's my camera. You have to move it.

I don't even know if we're supposed to do that. But you have to move. You have to work out. You have to get out there. You have to do all these things that we hate. You have to. As you get older to look good and keep it tight and keep it right, move it around a little bit, like a walk. What do you do for this perfect face?

Oh my gosh. Bless you. blind a little bit. Are you okay? It's not so good. Like you look better than ever and I'm not lying. Thanks. Yeah.

Well, one thing. It's hard to tell them like the flashbacks. It's like, her now, you know, on the show. I feel like I'm better now. Isn't that? That's because you lose weight. You're not having kids. There's something to be said about that when you're in your child birthing years.

Yeah. You're young. It's a lot of beauty and things. But you definitely have fatter moments, I think. And then as you age, you're coming out of child having kids. years. And you're having... Then maybe they say that you're getting into another stage and you're gaining weight. So I'm not really sure. My youngest is 10. And I'm like coming, I consider that coming out of child bearing or having years. My oldest is 25. That's so inspiring, though, to have to be 50, you know,

and say, I'm feeling the best I've ever felt right now. I have all these... No, that's so great. That's so great. You know, people are so scared to age nowadays. And it's like, I'm definitely not. No, I'm not scared. My face is like, look at it. These are like, I don't have a, meaning like you can see me. You're sitting here with me. So you can see in my face. I don't have like a lot of crazy filler. You don't see how it moves.

You can see that I don't have. So what is it just Botox? No, you can see. I don't need all that. That's the whole point. I think it's my point. I think if you stay a little more natural as you age and that's the tip I give to the girls, it looks better.

Yes, it's a little more. Maybe I have a line there where I didn't have, have smile lines and things like that. Sure, it moves. Yeah. But I think if I go the opposite, it'll be too plumped and stiff. Yeah. And who knows? If you see me plumped and stiff in five or 10 years, then you know I went that way. But for right now, and you just got done, thank you for saying it looks good. So I think it's better to stay more natural. Only do the little bits you need if you feel you need anything. I do laser once. You don't know how many bowsups in your forehead? No. Oh, no, because I don't have that kind of forehead. I have this part in the middle.

I don't have a forehead that moves. I mean, it moves, but not like... Wait, that's crazy. What would you say then to like, you know, this generation of like 20-year-old getting Botox and the fillers? It's too much, you guys. And you guys are actually aging your face and you're aging yourself. And I don't know that people even care.

Sometimes I ask and I have a lot of friends and friends and friends who are like, aestheticians, makeup artist, in the business. And I'm like, don't you tell your client that that looks bad? And they're like, they don't want to hear it. or, you know, no, I couldn't say that. I was trying to, if I want to keep my job, I couldn't say that. I hear the craziest stories. And there are people that they don't look good, you guys.

I feel like you know all the tea. I know all the tea. You know all the tea. You know all the tea. And you don't need to do that when you're young. And if you do that when you're so young, then what are you going to do when you're older? That's what I don't get why, like, and I have a model, like, a real one from how many years, these women that are telling you guys or that are doing this, they're not telling

you to do it, but women that are doing that, they're not models. you guys or something else. Influencers or some other kind of famous woman that thought that they needed that. But a model, you don't really need all that. So if your daughters were like, I want to get something done, would you? We talk about this all the time. And I say no, and you don't need it. Even like something that could be care, like a laser, getting rid of like sunspots or

whatever. I would say, no, it's too much on your skin. It's going to thin your skin. Yeah. There's things you can do for care. And I still say, like, don't. don't do too much. Lights and all that.

I think don't do too much. A little bit. Red light. Some lights are okay, but don't go. So your daughters, Aoki and Mink, are both supermodels too. Like they just were born with, they got your jeans. Not supermodels, but they do model. Are they supermodel looking at least?

She was on Vogue, September Vogue, Teen Vogue, Teen Vogue. And she's like a genius, right? She got into Harvard when she was 16. 15. She got in at 15. She graduated, I think 18, 15, 16, 17, 19. Is she still traveling the world like we see on the show? She travels the world.

Yeah, she goes back and forth. She loves it in Asia. She loves the weather. So this is still happening because we. I like, yeah, for sure. She loves it. Well, she was traveling then. She was traveling then.

It's hard to get her to sit down in one spot. So that is always the same. Yes, this is the same. It's real life. No, but I don't know when it was filmed, you know. Yoki's still running around for sure. That's why she sat here with me today. Everybody's fighting around.

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everything? It's different. I think it's a juggling, a balance thing. I don't think that they don't want it because they're natural. in it. You were born in it. They were creating and working with me since we were little. I had them very young. A lot of younger moms can say, you know, we grew up together, really. They know me like in a different way. So they have a lot of that. And they live their own lives. That's the whole point. I think you see this. They live their own lives on TV. They have their endeavors. They went to school.

They both graduated college. They both are off into their various entrepreneurial ventures. So I think it's okay. I think for them it's an extension. And I definitely don't make them do it. So let me just say that. If they don't want to do it, they don't have to do it. And I don't want everybody calling me like, oh, you have to bring Ming. I can't make. Got you. She's her own person. That's the difference between now Fablane and then Fablane. I don't make, you know, then Fablane was like, you're just coming with mom. Right. Or whatever. We're going to work, runway, take a bow. Like, they just listen to me. Now they're like, no, you go that way and I'm going to go this way. Or like, Mom, that's not cool. I don't know if I want to do that.

Did you give them any tips prior to coming back to filming? Well, they were definitely freaking out a little bit. Like, what do we do? Or how are we going to look? Or you don't understand it's different this day and age. Well, with TikTok, they probably mean in everything. Like, people judge a lot harder. Thousand percent.

I'm learning all these things. And like you, I try to say, like I don't care. But you care a little bit. But you try not to. And so therefore, you kind of. offer yourself a little bit. Or you know, you set up boundaries or guidelines. And that's why I was saying I don't watch every single thing of myself or play back every interview. I'm hoping for the best. But also you have to realize, like, I'm a fashion creative. So that's like you sit down and you do it

and you put it out there. It goes down the runway. And you hope for the best. You don't get to take it back and change. Right. You have to change it next time. And by then, you're, when it goes out there, you're on to something else. That collection is light years ahead, a way. Designer will tell you that. It's gone. Good or bad. Yeah. And usually they say good things and people have been very supportive, certainly in fashion and all my baby fat years. Thankfully, thank God, thank everyone. They've been very great to me. But sometimes they don't love it. Sometimes I didn't make everyone at, you know, whatever publication they didn't, they didn't love it or they said something. The girls were to this, do that. Why did you do this? I'm like, ah. So you try not to live your life with only those

guidelines. And so I think that way, good or bad, you'll never go too far off track, right? If you're so excited when it's exciting, then are you so sad when it's not exciting? Probably not. So you're trying to have them take it like as it comes and them, me. Everybody. Ride the wave. Yeah. Everybody. It feels like Ming is a little bit maybe more into this life because Aoki is traveling. But it seems like like Ming is like your mini-me. She's definitely my mini-me.

And then she's definitely a stalker. That's why I was saying a single-like. No, but actually, yes, she's because, oh my God, yes, you said on the show. She tries to look like me- She, like, comes into the shower with you? She would, yeah. I don't know how that one is going to be received, honestly.

But she didn't get in the shower. Oh, you kicked her out? Did she take a shower with it? No, there was, you were saying on the show, you're like asking. She comes in the shower with you for sure. Yeah, you were like saying on the show how she's always around.

you and you're like... What a little weirdo. Get out of my shower. And you're showering like you're in the steam and you like see or appear. Okay. Oh, that happens all the time. Can I say something though? First of all, my shower is really big.

Okay. Let's just start with that. Like this room big. Like half of this studio right here where we are. Okay. Half of this. Oh, okay. And there are multiple heads.

Yes. Okay. And there's steam. So you don't have to be under any head. You can just be in the steam. I'm like picturing my apartment that would be like in my face. Okay, but you say you have two kids. Right.

So are, well, I don't know how old they are, but like, are you an expert at, like, no, no, keeping them out when you're on the toilet, keeping them out when you're in the bathroom. Well, toilet, you're right. Do you get to say so or do they say? Okay. But Ming is how old, 20? Yeah, but she thinks she's 10. I'm sure she's a little jealous of Wolfie that he actually gets all that attention and help. That's what it is.

Help and care. And that she's more perceived as an adult. What do you guys say this? Would you guys say that about Minky? Like, she's a little bit more... She's a baby. She's like 25, but you... But isn't that nice?

Because then you have one kid, what it seems like from what I've watched. Aoki, it seems like she's more independent. She's, like, traveling. She's out and about. Whereas, like, you get to have one daughter who wants to freaking shower with you. So why do you want her out, though?

But why do you want her out of the house then? Isn't it fun to have like... It's a catch 22. Okay. I do and I don't. Did I say I did? I don't today. You said that you said that you,

want that you like would like for her to have her own yeah you've changed your mind you flip it's one of those things i flip back and forth yeah i definitely feel like dang girl like get but then i feel like oh you don't have to go yeah she's 25 and i definitely don't feel like you have to put kids out ming and ioki both have places in new york and they both have a room at my place yeah i mean in my house they have their home they're a room so i think that's okay and they always come back that's their base. That's so cute. And you have five kids total. So Ming and I... Five kids total, but six on the show. I have an extra one. A bonus child. A lot of bonus child. A lot of bonus children. Some that are on, some that are not. That's a lot. How? Literally, I have like five kids right away I could

think of. Extra. That are in my friends of your kids that you kind of took in. How does this happen that you're... I have a stepdaughter. I have other kind of stepkids. Not not by me. I didn't marry their dad, but kind of, yeah, I have all these bonus kids, bonus animals. I have a lot. How did you become this, like, did you always want to have a lot of children? I always wanted a lot of kids, and I always thought I would be a great mom, and I really think I'm a pretty decent mother, like, not the best. I don't want to toot my own horn, but I kind of want to, like, tutoo.

Well, you're a single mother of just five that are your own, plus all the bonus. What was the decision to adopt? Because I know Gary is adopted from. Jamaica. Yeah. How did you decide after having four of your own that you wanted to adopt? So, I don't know. I think people will say when they have, okay, so Gary is adopted as a personal adoption, meaning we know Gary's family. Gary's dad is on my phone right now. I know, you know what I mean? We know. I know Gary's mom and dad. It's a person. So it's more of a family adoption, more like not like a kid that you, you know, went and plucked out of the carriage patch.

I tell them, though, I gave birth to him, but he knows. He knows it's not true. as we see his mom too. But I think that for people who adopt children, you know that it's not really you that's doing the picking. It's kind of like them that's picking you. I think it's a time, timing, like a divine timing. I don't know if it's ever perfect. And I don't know if I'm ever perfect enough.

And you never know. It's about you trying to help someone else and bringing another person being into your family and opening up your family and sharing and that person becomes part of your family. It's such a journey. And I don't know if I was ever ready for it. And I absolutely love it.

And Gary is like the sweetest, nicest. Really, thank God I lucked up. But I don't know if you ever really choose it or if you get to much, if you get much say. I don't think so. How old was he when you adopted him? He's 16 now. I want to say like eight. Really?

Yeah. And your other children like took him in right away. A thousand percent. Yeah. It was with everyone's blessing. We're a very close-knit group. So we discuss almost everything together. I say almost everything because I probably edited some things throughout their growing up.

But we're very close. Even the boys. I'm a boy mom kind of technically now. See, now Ming would say, no, you're not. She was sitting right here. She'd be like, they don't even count. Because they outnumber the girls. That's why I'm mom.

Well, because now the younger ones are the focus in their boys. Yeah. The younger ones are boys and the adults are girls. And how do you compare that? Like as a, how would you? compare being a boy mom versus girl mom what's better what's harder girl mom harder because they're more like emotional mom i don't know i think from what i i'm older your kids why i'm only boys five and a year and a half but i just babies you look good you have really thank you i'm working hard thank you

oh my gosh i thought you had big kids no no i would never think you had a baby really thank you Oh, so then you get all the stuff I just sat here and said. Of course I get it. And you don't even look like I look. My kids were 10. My kid's 10 now. Well, now, but Ming and Ioki on that show were a little younger than that, and I still was carrying it around. First of all, you looked amazing.

You look amazing. Thank you. Don't be so hard on yours. I know, I am. A year. Oh, my God. I just told you. I don't care or care.

See? We care. We care. We do. Look, we're doing our best, Debbie. We're doing our best. But you were the fact. As someone that had two kids and thinking of another pregnancy, I'm like,

And you did it four times, like, that's inspirational. You know what I mean to me? Five. You count Gary. Does he a 0.5 birth? He can't be zero birth. Okay. Because he gives me pains like a birth child.

I say that. Do they in the house, like, do they call each other, like, are they like, this is my half-sister, or are they all feeling? Okay. No. I don't know how that works. No. And also, kids will tell you that.

And as a single mom, I'll tell you, I think this is one of the same. of those things, but I think it goes by who's in the house with the mom. Everybody under the mom, I think, is all siblings. Now, this may be really polarizing. I don't know your core group. What if you have a bunch of single dads? But if it was, everybody was home with the dad, whoever's under that dad would be the one that usually for us, it's girls and it's the mom. But whoever's under that main parent and the more kids that come in that are under that main one as opposed to scattered. Yeah. That's your family and that's your base and no one distinct. wishes that. Like, I have a stepdaughter. I said for the people here. But at home, it's not like,

good morning, step. Steps. She calls me mom. Like, no. Wow. So how many kids do you have living in your house currently living? Five. Five. Well, six. No, seven. That she doesn't know. Maine, Gaioki, Kenzo, Gary, Wolf, Jaden, Angie. Angie is the stepdaughter. Yeah. And she's in university. So she's in between the house and. And do they like, You know, come downstairs like the Brady Bunch and eat breakfast together vibes? So not always breakfast together, but eat everything. Eat me out of house and home deliveries, cooking all hours of the day and night. Because they're all the boys are athletic.

So they're all in school and they're doing sports and really into sports. They're both on Gary plays varsity football and Kenzo plays varsity basketball. She's like, get it right, get a right, my brain. I know. So they're up at like four in the morning, five in the morning. Are you going to the games and everything? Almost everyone. Really?

It gets a little hours long on the cold hard bench in the cold, on the cold hard bench. Yeah. And basketball is a little better. It's inside, though. And it's not as long. But I do go to the games. Yeah, I do. And you're doing this all on your own, like the fathers of the children are not involved?

It's so weird because I used to, yeah, it used to be a little different. They're not involved. I'm alone. There's no co-parenting. You know what I was thinking about for you? that your kids are older. So, like, even, because, right, somebody on the tree could be like, she, okay, she has a thousand nannies, right?

Like, that's what people like to say. But, like, your kids. But when, as a mom, I know, like, even if I have a nanny, like, yes, she can help me with my one and a half year old. But my five-year-old, like, wants to be around their parents. So I was thinking about you having all these children. So even if you have help, like, I'm sure your 10-year-old wants to be with you, you know? So it's all on you, you know?

And it's just the demands. and it's everything that goes on. Like, I've been here, for example, in New York for the show and everything coming out, and Kenzo was in a car accident. And it was like his first car accident. And it's been just kind of crazy. Yes, he's okay. Thank you.

He's okay. But his car was like totaled. I don't think it's not his fault, but it was a lot. And so it's, you know, scary and I wasn't there. And I could kind of feel it. An emotion I could feel in my stomach what he was feeling. And they're asking questions. And it was like, he doesn't feel well.

He can't even. I can just hear. hear it in how he's talking that he doesn't feel well. So I think parenting is always a lot and you do and you do the best you can. It definitely takes a village. I definitely have people with me, aunties, like sisters, friends, support, but you're always going to worry. You're always the main one up. We're the next batter up always. They could never see the dad for a million ever games. And if you miss one, it's like, mom, you weren't there. Are you late? Or I think that's just how it goes for us. We'll be right back after the break.

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And we're back. I only watched two episodes of the show, but do you talk on the show at all about like the kids' fathers and their involvement and... Well, there is no involvement. There is no involvement. And so I don't talk much about that because then I would be talking about their lack of involvement. Right.

And that would be too much talking. So there is no involvement. And I don't really, they're not on the show, obviously. Yeah. They're not really even around. And they're welcome to be around just to clarify for the record. They're welcome to be around at their will and leisure. My kids are all big enough and old enough to and able to have their own relationships and do their own things.

So it's not about me at all. It's just. What a loss for them. I feel like that too. They don't know. I don't know what they know. Guys are a little weird. You know what I feel like sometimes.

about dads that aren't present. Present. Fully. I try to put myself in their brain and think like a child. Like, I just don't want this responsibility. You know, like, it must be just that. Like, I'm just. I can't believe that.

I don't know. Like, how else would do? But we're not supposed to be thinking for them because we could never rationalize this. I think as a mom, you could never imagine, kind of. Yeah. And then you're like, how could you not. want to be part of this thing that you create. Sorry to get, like, deep. But maybe they think, I feel like, no, because I think this is important. I feel like this is

important. Maybe it's the other side that you're, maybe they're intimidated. Or maybe they're like, oh, she's got it. Maybe they're like, I don't want to get in her way. Maybe they're like, I don't like her. I don't know. I'm not saying personally all of these things personally. I'm saying, you know, maybe we don't, you never know. We don't know. I think a lot goes through their head, though, about the other parent and less about the child. We could go on about this forever. I'm here for it. I could come back another day because we're getting into, like, the psychology of it all.

And it's really crazy to me. And I don't know because I'm not one of them. So I don't know. I think it's, I don't, it's really what you just said. As a mother, you cannot imagine. You cannot imagine. And your daughter, Ioki, specifically has been kind of vocal about having, like, drama with her father.

when she kind of made that public, how did you feel about that? It hurt me a lot for her. Just like I was just saying about Kenzo, I kind of felt it in my stomach. And I think you feel for your kids. And in this day and age, there we go again with that,

because back in the day, I didn't have this. But I think nowadays, things play out more in the public eye and more kind of immediate and you can press this thing on your phone and it goes live and it starts flashing this thing.

And then you could see anything you want it. Like, how crazy is that? Right now, someone could pull my phone, just press record and I could just put it right here. And the whole world could just see like what we were doing right now. And that would be so cool to them. And in fact, I do that sometimes. We all do that sometimes, right?

And it's the coolest thing. But like, think about that if that's a breakup or a fight or your parents or whatever. Even though I will say he's just, that's a category and a whole thing on its own. And that pains me as a mom. But I just try to be there. for her and try to support her. She's super smart. I think we've all seen that. She graduated early from Harvard. She's deeply thinking and feeling she's not a liar. She's not lying. But that was definitely a time. And I felt for her. What could I say? I'm right there in the trenches with my kids

at all times. I know what goes on. I think they're very protective of me and of the family unit as well. And I'm sure sometimes that feels like it could be a burden for any kid. I'm sure it's a whole mind, minding. And I'm right there with them throughout it all. Ioki also had some other press that I have to ask you about, which I was shocked even the with the 65-year-old man. Are you going to talk about it on the show? It was a big deal, like for pop culture, by the way.

Like, it really exploded. I feel like everyone saw it. Everyone saw it. Those photos. Why is it a big deal, though? because if you look back, okay, well, first of all. Because it's like, why is this stunning young, huh, beautiful? True, but you see that all the time.

I think you don't count these ages. I don't think we count these ages of people of what they really are. I mean, it's not like she was seen with like Leonardo DiCaprio. You know what I mean? It was like a 65-year-old like business. Isn't that the same? As like Leo? He's going to say I am not 65.

No, I don't look like that. You're right. I'm not saying that about Leo. I'm not saying that. But I just meant older man. To me, that's the shock. at all. Was this when she was traveling during a year filming?

No. Oh, it wasn't the same travel time? No, I feel like that was like a couple years ago already. I feel like that was a while ago. That was 2024. Like April 2024. And we're almost in 2006. Yeah.

April 2024. So like a year and a half ago. Yeah. A few months we'll be even April again. So it'll be two years. Yeah, that was a while ago. We didn't, no. So you didn't discuss it on the show.

What was your reaction to that in real time? I let my kids make their own mistakes. Like I said, that's the whole thing we were saying about living out your life and public. And I think that's very, very tough. I don't even think that was a moment for them, though. Or I should say the opposite. I think it was just that moment. I don't think it was anything else.

I didn't even know this. First of all, I know this guy. But I didn't know this guy in that capacity, like with my kid or that you were even dating my kid or even. I know this guy growing up myself. He's a restaurateur. Right. I don't know. I don't want to get into troubles legally.

but I think his reputation probably precedes him. Is that okay to say legally? I think the reputation precedes you. So I was learning some of these things as I went along to. Were you like, what the hellie are you doing to Ioki or no? I was, but I didn't say it in that way because it was this fast that it blew up to be so much. And so then you can't be the mom that's like, what the hell are you doing? But that definitely was the thing.

But it went from zero to a hundred really quick. And I was like, Yoki, I didn't even know this was a thing. Yeah. I didn't even know this was a thing. I found out when the world found out. So that was what was so shocking. And you can't say as a mom and I've learned all these crazy things. You can't give the, I told you so right now. You can't give the, what the hell are you doing right now? You can't give all those things. Because she was going through it. Yeah, it was a lot. It was a lot for her. Yeah. But I do think in general of those kind of things, I think I feel like, and having gone through not exactly the same, but similar that big age gap relationship. just call it that. I do think it's predatory. We said all of that to get to what Camorra thinks about it. I think that's predatory. It's predatory. Kind of crazy.

Totally. Jumping to you, are you single? Yes. You're single. Are you dating? No. You're not? No. You're still in your mama only era? I never thought of it like that. I never thought of it as mama only. Okay. But I'm still

in, I'm always going to be in that era. So I don't know if it's mama only. but I'm still in. I don't know if it's still in. Or are you just not telling me that you're dating and you are? No. Okay.

I'm just. Just not into that. Not actively. Seeking. Yes. Not actively. And do they, because you're six feet tall.

I'm six four in my heels. And plus heels. Do you. Don't try that. Try that. So do you, do they need to be taller? Oh,

if I would date somebody? Yeah, yeah. No way. I have three baby daddies. Look at them. Well, okay, no. That's not true. I was going to go in on them.

None of them are above. None of them are. They are. We won't do that. Okay. The first one was short, like a frog. Like fog 5-9. I call him. And the second one is six. That's Kenzo's dad. He's six, two. And Wolfie's dad is six, probably three or four. So two of them were tall. But in my heels, I'm taller than you. No one was taller than you. No one was taller than you. Yeah. Two of them were taller than me. I'm six feet. But not in my heels. And I do count that. I'm not letting that go. I'm not letting my six four. and my heels go, they're taller than me at six feet. But I don't care about height. You don't care. I don't care about any of that. I don't really, growing up, I was never the friend that, like, had to have the male model or Adonis-looking thing like that.

So what is your type? I like brains. I like intelligence. Like, I want to be able to talk. I just want to understand these men that want to, you know, that you're 162 and you want to talk to a five-year-old. I don't understand that what they're talking about. I'm so glad that baby fat is back and thriving. Thank you.

Because I remember, because I'm 88, and like, so I was, like, when baby fat came on the scene, like, I couldn't afford it then. But, like, it was, like, the thing. It was the thing. It's like fat, pH, pH, you know, like, you fucking coined that thing. You know what I mean? Pretty hot and tempting. Like, people. I didn't actually make it up because people are always.

really clear to say like what you did and what you didn't do. So what did it feel like when you reacquired it after after some years? It was a lot. It's always very emotional because it's like your baby. You don't even want to sell it or get rid of it in first place. But we did. We built it. We sold it. That was a crazy deal. At that time, it was a historical deal. Even now today, I think there's only been a handful of deals like that, that level that were done. So it reminded me kind of like Taylor Swift like buying her master's. You know what I mean? That's exactly. It was Exactly what I'm saying. It's emotional.

It's like your first baby. You, you, it's hard to let it go. And then once you let it go, you're kind of subject to rules and regulations of others and what they think. Usually that's a marriage of the minds, but sometimes it can be a little bit difficult. So I sold it. I stayed a while as an officer of the company, quite a while, some many years. And then we eventually parted ways. And then I didn't have her for a while.

and I did quite a few other things, but I always wanted her back. And you got her back. I got her back. And it's always just emotional. Yeah, it's like buying back your masters. When you first started, you had like these huge runway shows in like New York Fashion Week. Are you, do you have any plans? Do you think New York Fashion Week, by the way, is like still what it was?

Because I feel like in the last couple of years. No. I feel like it is a thing. New York Fashion Week, of course. But I don't feel like it's what it was 25 years ago when we were doing it. No. Then it was like big. lights, stage, sound, lights, camera, action.

Now it's a little bit different. And I think that's because the schedule of the calendar itself kind of moves, rotates, everybody's not necessarily adhering to the same calendar. Lots of things have changed over the years. And like some for the better and some for the worst. Is there somebody, like, if you would bring it back, like, on the runway? Or bring it back to New York Fashion Week. Yeah.

I would bring baby fat back. Yeah. Would you like, would you want, like, who would you want to? guest walk like you used to do with like Missy Elliott. Oh, I had so many. Oh, yeah? I don't know. Who now? Who now? Who you hot for now? Brada. Okay. I was thinking like Megan the stallion. Oh, Megan the stallion. Or I was thinking like Megan Fox. Yes. So I'm all over the place here with for a lot of reasons. Those were such good answers. I mean, I'm a caster. That's what I do. I cast women. So I'm thinking, I'm all over the place with these thoughts, but those are some good ones.

Those were really, really good ones. Anything fun up and coming that you want to tease for the brand. It's up and coming. I know that you had a 25, well, not we had, I had, well, we recently celebrated 25 years of baby fat. And so I have a 25 year edition varsity jacket with all the patches and the logos. It's like a classic varsity jacket. I should have worn it. I should have brought you one. I should done all these things. But I got off the plane and I've been a little bit crazy, but I'm going to send you one. I didn't bring myself one either, which I would have. Oh, you would have worn it like instead of the bomber? It's so New York. It's so, you have to see it. Oh, because on the show. I'm going to send you one. Okay. Would you wear that? It has a lot of patches because it's like

Y2K. I will 100%. If you don't wear it, someone will steal it. I'm will wear it. You guys, how fucking iconic, Camora, back in the Fablane is on E. Airs Tuesdays at 10 p.m. Yes. We love to see it. We love to have you back on our screens. Thank you for having me. You and your cute family. He's been a lot of fun. Yay. Not skinny, not fat.

And I wondered why. It was called that, but I kind of feel like. Now you get it? Well, I feel like it's me. It's us. We work through this whole thing here, you guys. We did it. The supermodel says, like, we'll roll with it.

We'll give it to you. No. We'll empathize with what, you know. Even a supermodel has her moments, you guys. I'm sure. Has her kids. I know, I'm sure. A mama's a mama as a mama.

Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of not skinny, but not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not skinny, but not fat. Subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcasts and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocharoo. Thank you guys so much for listening. And I'll see you next Tuesday.

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