Not Skinny But Not Fat - Kyle MacLachlan: The Internet's Dad

Episode Date: November 25, 2025

This week I'm joined by the internet's dad and the coolest 66 year old on TikTok, Kyle MacLachlan. We get into his new podcast What Are We Even Doing?, his interest in Gen Z, and how he suddenly became a TikTok star. Kyle looks back on playing Trey McDougal on Sex in the City, Orson Hodge on Desperate Housewives and how he really feels about his characters' endings. We discuss being asked back for And Just Like That and why he said no, The Fallout, working with Walton Goggins and more!!This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.Keep it classic and cozy this fall cool—with long-lasting staples from Quince. Go to Quince.com/notskinny for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns.Watch Sidelined 2: Intercepted Free on Tubi this ThanksgivingVisit CleanSimpleEats.com - https://glnk.io/73q00/NOTSKINNY20 - and use code NOTSKINNY10 at checkout for 10% off your FIRST order PLUS free shipping.For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners ten dollars off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code NOTSKINNY10Go to shopminnow.com and enter code MEETMINNOW15 at checkout to receive 15% off your first order.Get 45% off your first subscript onrder of 30-servings of Coffee+ with. You'll also receive a starter kit with over $100 in free gifts by going to everydaydose.com/NOTSKINNY or entering NOTSKINNY at checkoutLearn more at weightwatchers.comProduced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to the not skinny bonafat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch, and I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars on my very own podcast, where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. Whoa, I tried doing my intro before I had lunch and I sounded like I was dying. So I'm recording it again, which I just, I like being all natural. But honestly, you guys would have been just worried about me.

You've been like, are you okay? And sometimes that just shows you that I'm not the girl that can skip a lunch. I'm not the girl that can be an hour late to lunch because her blood sugar crashes. And she sounds like she's on alive. Like, it is concerning for everybody. Anyway, happy Tuesday, my loves. Welcome back to a new episode of Not Skinny but Not Fat. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch.

And today we have a really, really fun guest. We have the Internet's dot, okay? It's Kyle McLaughlin. Like, I don't know if you guys have seen Kyle around lately, but he is all the rage, as Gen Z would say, and as he would say, because he's practically Gen C, he has a new podcast called What Are We Even Doing, where he talks to Gen Z type? and tries to, like, explore their creative process and learn more about them.

He's going viral on TikTok. He's doing all the trends, okay? But don't you forget that he is Kyle McLaughlin, aka Trey McDougall from Sex and the City, that you know and love him from Desperate Housewives, from Twin Peaks, from Portlandia, from, like, so many things, so many things. He's our little cutie patootie.

He's Kyle McLaughlin, and he's here. to talk all the things. No, I'm obsessed. You guys are going to fall in love with him. Don't say I didn't tell you so. So enjoy my convo with Kyle McLaughlin. I look like a dark brown blob, but that's okay. What, the shirt?

Yes, with the sweater. Why, I think it looks so good. Crepe. I'm such a preppy. You are preppy. It's giving tray. It's giving tray. The internet's dad is here. I am here.

Well, that's thank you. Yeah. Thank you. I think I'm getting comfortable with that monitor. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a moment. Yes, it has.

It's been a moment. Yes, it has. How is this feeling for you? I mean, we all know you and love you for years, right? You've been on iconic TV shows. Very fortunate, yeah. You've done huge stuff. Yeah.

Did we expect you to take TikTok by storm? I did not, but I'm working with a wonderful team. Which I expected it. Which, if you could win, like, prizes for, like, social media team, they would be dominated. They would sweep the category. Absolutely. They're wonderful.

Well, they're so tapped into what's happening on, in social. And they are also, they communicate to me these different ideas in such a lovely way. And I'm kind of up for anything. I'm letting the freak flag fly a little bit and I'm getting more comfortable with the idea. I'm basically a silly person at heart. Yeah. Monty Python is right in my wheel. house. So I'm up for like just doing unusual things. Did people not know that you were silly

until now? I don't know. They may have, but I really let it out. You really let it out. Yeah. And for this, I, I, there's no stopping us. But what, okay, so I mean, the team, we could give credit all day, but something in you started this. Like wanted to put yourself out there more online, get in it. What was that decision? I think it was a combination of things, recognizing the the creative side of things, how starting really with Twitter back in the day when you had a limitation on what you could say, a certain number of characters. And I really, I love the idea that you had to create something within a confined space, right? So that was the start. And then I did enjoy love, I love posting. It's really fun to share. But it went up a few

notches right around the time when I did the podcast Varnham Town with Josh Davis. So a story, we did it kind of, it's like, not a mystery necessarily, but just a story, an unusual story about a small town of North Carolina that had some things going on, like that involved a lot of drugs in Pablo Escobar, a very unusual story. And to promote that, we started doing just kind of some funny, I don't know, just images and situations. And the Internet was like, what is this? we like this and so I said we should just keep going with this and Nora and Ben who are in the

house today are largely responsible for the success of that they're just incredibly creative and now do you feel like you're like you are in on it like you're tapped in you know what's up like you know the trends before like they bring the trends and I pay attention but I feel like you never really know what's happening, which is kind of great. You kind of have to just feel a vibration and then go with it. Yeah. And it's always got my crazy stamp of weirdness on it. And so you just do it. And then you just kind of hope that you've been entertaining, you know, and that people enjoy it. Well, it's been entertaining. It's been so fun. Did this align with the podcast coming out? The what are we even, what are we even doing, is the name of the pod?

Yeah. So you interview like Gen Z types. Yep, young millennials. So it's all tapped into the same kind of vibe. We're keeping up. Yes, we're keeping up. And also people that I find particularly interesting because of what they're doing creatively that there's more than meets the eye, I think.

And we run the gamut. actors, musicians, comedians, podcast hosts, et cetera. And we just, I do a deep dive into their, I just, their creative process, basically. That's what I'm most curious about, how they started, what drives them, their passions, how they use social, how they promote themselves and their brand, and what else they're interested in doing.

And I learn every time, just whomever I'm interviewing, it's a process for me to learn about what's coming. I know everything about my heroes and my mentors, you know, Marlon Brando and James Dean. These are people I grew up with as an actor, admiring and wanting to know as much as I could about. But I knew very little about what was coming sort of behind me, I guess. And I said, well, this is not right. And you add to that the fact that I have a 17-year-old son and he's living in a completely different world than my world. And I'm interested in it. I don't want to intrude, but I'm curious. More curious, I think, than my parents were.

about my generation. And I said, I'm not going to do that. I'm definitely going to look back and see what is happening. What does he think about all of this? He tolerates me. Is he like, Dad, stop? No, no, he's not. He's actually pretty cool.

I think he gets that I enjoy this and I'm not too cringy to him, you know. Oh, good. And he's pretty, yeah, he's very tolerant. Yeah, kids, there is a thing where they always find their parents cringy. Oh, yeah. And he should. And he does. At a certain age, I feel like.

like they like look up to you, admire you. Yeah, we're past that. You're past that. Maybe not quite because we try to be, we're parents first, but we try to also be cool and understanding. And I think both my wife and I remember what it was like, which I feel like when I was growing up, my parents decided not to remember what it was like,

or at least they didn't share their time at 17 or 16. or wherever and we make it a point to say yeah when i was 17 i felt this yeah and this killed me and and this was i learned this take it for what you will but i think you know we open the communication is he going to participate in any videos with you you think oh probably yeah you'll probably yeah he's up for it too he's up for it yeah yeah because you borrowed his clothes for some video. Yeah, for Lord, yeah, I did. He is so creative. I'm going to sing my son's praises. He loves to sew. We got him a sewing machine for his birthday. And he creates his own stuff. So, you know, the styles are ever changing in high school, but they're very particular, very, they're very specific at any given point in time, right?

So he goes thrifting, he gets, he'll buy pants and fabric and he'll put them together. But he, yeah, he loves to, he sort of designs his own stuff. And he makes clothes for some of his friends as well. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah, he's really, and he really, I mean, he's not taught, not trained. There's all sorts of, you know, the fabric doesn't quite line up here, but I think that's also part of the look. So you think he's going to go the creative route? Some way, yeah.

Some way. Yeah. My wife, on the other hand, is a businesswoman. And so there's also the idea of entrepreneurial business kind of vibe there, too. So whatever's going to happen, it's going to be interesting, whatever he does. So you said you want to learn more about the Gen Z process. Like, what have you learned that's like different, so different than like yours? It's not that this isn't necessarily different, but I think the expectation is that they are slackers.

They don't work, you know, that they, you know, and that's not the case at all. I think they're more comfortable with chaos. And I think they can ride that river better, certainly better than I could at that age because it's kind of what's swirling around, you know. But I do feel like everyone I've spoken with... You've had Kaya Gerber, you've had... Kaya Gerber, Caleb Heron, Benny Skinner.

Right, and some upcoming fun ones too, right? Yeah, and up-and-comers as well. And I got more coming where it's interesting, as you know, in the podcast world, you have to sort of stay ahead of the schedule you know and I'm like okay let's go

so we have you know we have so we have we've recorded a 16 or 17 oh wow so far no that's a lot you're good

you're banked we're banked that is the word yeah banking them yeah yeah so feeling good about that

and loving the process I love the I love learning I love the research and do they know you oh yeah the Gen Z gen Zs yeah

they do like do you ask them like interesting saying like where from? What have they watched? They usually say, I loved you in is it Twin Peaks, you know, or sex in the city, of course,

Desperate Housewives, Howe I Met Your Mother, another one. Right, right, right. So there's these points of reference that we have. Or overcompensating. That's a new one. Currently, overcompensating, exactly, with Benny and everybody playing the dad. But it's the work ethic, I think, that I was like, oh, yes, doing what I do now with this, I mean, it takes a lot of work. A lot of time you

know, and this is, there's a lot of prep that goes into what we do. And I'm like, this is a job to have that internet presence like that and do social and really do it and really present yourself consistently, authentically. And the other thing that's interesting is that that is only a part of who they are and what they want to do. There's another, there are other worlds that they want to take on, you know, whether like Noah wants to be, Noah back once he's obviously strong presence on social, acting is something that he's been interested in and curious about. And so he's starting to move in. that direction. So we spoke on the podcast a bit about that in my experience and he shared some of

his experience, you know, so it's a back and forth. Because the other thing that's maybe misunderstood about them as opposed to, you know, you and your career and everything is it may look from the outside in like they got it quicker, right? Like they got the success quicker. Right. They came up quicker. Right. Whereas a lot of actors have like, you know, years until they get their big break. And did you feel like in your conversations, that's something that comes up? I mean, I think there's some validity to that because the impact is, I mean, it's part of the nature of the beast, right, with social. Because you're hitting, it's like if you're on a hit TV show suddenly, boom, you know, it's out in front of everybody all at once. I think the challenge is the sustaining, you know, and the consistency.

But there is definitely, you know, it's one of those things. things where obviously we didn't have that access of presenting yourself in a way that is true to who you are and how you want to be received in the world. We were structured because it was the role you did and then the publicity you did around that and the expectation. It was a certain you had to kind of tow a certain line. The expectation was there. And I feel like today it's like, well, you can do anything, really. Yeah. And present yourself any way you want. And a number of different ways in a number of different arenas. Yeah.

And I think that's just, that to me is also part of the challenge because it's so open-ended. It's so like what, how do I want to present myself to this world? And if I change and I go in different directions, am I, is it going to be accepted? Well, you know, and so you have to, you really have to be true to yourself, I think. Well, your journey has been accepted. People accepted. He was the new TikTok star. now podcaster, who would be your dream guest,

like in that world of the Gen Z Young Millennials? Oh, man. Well, you know, Timothy and I, Timothy Shalameh and I share this role that I did in Dune in 1983, 84, and he did more recently. And it would be fun to have him on. I feel like we'd just be talking about one thing. It's just about the experience of working in the film Dune and creating the role of Paul and what that experience was.

That would be so cool. I would really enjoy that. Are you working on that? Well, we'll see. We're working on it right now. We're putting it out there. But I did work with him on a, we did a little photo shoot together. And so I got to meet him a little bit, spent a little bit of time together.

And there was, there was just a good connection, you know, and I really respect him as an actor. And he's a very interesting person. So. Yeah. And he's very like, like when he won one of the awards that he won, he said he is here to make it big. Oh, yeah. He was right out in front with it and said he aspires to that, you know. And I think I don't know of an actor who wouldn't deep down say that.

You want to, you know, you want to swim with the best. Right. You want to be your best. You want to do your best. That's what we all aspire to. Right. And he just laid it out there. He laid it out there.

Yeah, much impressive. Another TikTok you did that blew up was you and Kristen Davis, aka Charlotte York. Yes. You went on her pot as well. I did. You did. What episode did you make you rewatch? We talked about the first one that we first met.

Really? Oh, that's special. But we touched on a few. We touched on that one. We touched on the wedding episode. We touched on the kind of the breakup one. I told the funny story about how I was on the tennis court at night playing tennis and I was in my boxer shorts and my tennis shoes.

You know, I was out as if I'd left bed and I was like trying to get through this whole thing. And I remember they were like the ladies who do all the makeup and stuff came out. And they had this baby oil. And they were like rubbing it all over my chest. And I said, I think this is a little excessive. And they were like, oh, no, it's not. They were so happy. And I was like, I'm a little uncomfortable. Okay. Well, she, I went on her podcast too. Oh, cool. And we recapped the Arwee Sluts episode, which you weren't in. But she had a sex scene that we were talking about because somebody the guy was yelling at her like obscenities like fuck you fucking big she fucking horror yeah did you watch all the series no no no no i know i watch our

stuff but i was yeah i'm bad you're you don't watch your own stuff or you i do a little bit i don't i don't really i'm sort of fibbing i i'll the joy for me is in the doing and i might check it out and just say oh it looks like it's working okay also you're not the target audience really for sex in the city no No, you're right. Yeah. So it's okay. Yeah.

But I am interested in the work. Yeah. And I'm interested in the writing because I think the writing on the show is brilliant. Well, yeah, that's what we were talking about, which I'm sure you discussed too, like how it, you know, is still relevant. Yeah. Like you can watch an episode, it's about dating, it's about relationships, and not much has changed in that. Yeah. In that realm.

Not in that, those relationships. I think people are also curious about what it was like in the 90s and what New York was like and what kind of. and what kind of a time that was. I said from calling each other on like office phones and like stuff like that. So different. So different. We'll be right back after the break. Today's episode is brought to you by everyday dose.

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That's NutraFol.com and the promo code is not skinny 10. And we're back. Well, like we were talking about filming the sex scenes and I had like guests recently who had talked about that and they talked about like how they, you know how actors today are talking more about everything really? Like we're getting more of an inside kind of kind of an open window into the process, which I don't know if it's good or bad. Right.

Like talking about intimacy coordinators and talking about how it's all technical and talking about like, do you feel like that ruins the allure at all? I mean, movies and TV? There's genuinely a curiosity about how the sausage is made, I think. And that's always been there.

But I feel like, yeah, I think recently there's been more of, I don't know, it feels like, yeah, some of those doors or barriers or whatever. Walls have sort of crumbled a little bit. And people are more comfortable talking about the process. And, you know, I think part of it is also sort of the social thing. People are letting people into, you know, intimate situations, much closer,

much closer, I think, than what television was, because that was about as close as you could get. I mean, you're doing a show and you're inside someone's house and you're in their living room or their bedroom or their kitchen or wherever it is on the television. So you're kind of part of the family. we're now in a different age. Yeah.

It's much, much, much more intimate, I think. So there's maybe we've relaxed a little bit. I sort of feel like I'm always a pendulum swinging kind of, you know, it'll swing one way and then it'll swing back the other way. We may go back to a time when it's like, no, let's be a little more mysterious. A little more, yeah. You don't need to tell us that like it was all, you know, choreographed and you hate each other and let us think that you're like in love and actually.

But what was it like back then getting that Sex and City role playing Trey? Oh, God. Well, it was a surprise. So they came, they reached out, Michael Patrick King and Jenny Bix. I met with them. I was in a point of my career when I was looking for, I've been playing kind of the offbeat, eccentric and usual. You think of movies like Blue Velvet and shows like Twin Peaks.

And so I was playing these eccentric characters. And I said, I really would like to play. you know, someone who's a little more middle of the road and mainstream, more recognizable as a leading man. And the offer came in to, you know, work on the show, to play opposite Kristen Davis, of course. And he was Upper East Side and Heart Surgeon and Athletic and played tennis.

And, you know, and I was like, in my mind, I was kind of going, oh, wow, this is what we've been talking about. I mean, it's Upper East Side, but it's me. You know, that makes sense. That makes sense. I'm athletic. Maybe there'll be some scene. We'll shoot some stuff in the park, you know, throwing the football around, you know.

And I had this whole thing that I had built up in my mind, right? And then I went to meet them and they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, all of that. And, of course, he's input in. And he's got a very close relationship with his mother. And I was like, damn, you remember that old Pachia? They pulled me back in. Wait, so they told you that off the bat. So you knew that where that's where the story was at.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, I was like, okay. I said, you know, this is such a great show. the writing was so good. And I was like, I'm in, you know. We're in what?

Like, two, two? Well, I was supposed to be in just a few episodes initially. And then they just kind of kept me around. So I was in that first season. And then the second season, I think it was season three and four. I think I was in. Season three and four. Right.

And then. I'm never quite sure. And then leaving that show. Was there anything? I think they had just kind of run. I mean, you know, we, the men there served. the story for the women, right? So you know going in, what's going to happen.

I was very lucky to have survived as long as I did. And I felt like, you know, while there were a lot of sort of, you know, jokes, you know, about my situation, you know, about the two of us and how we were dealing with it, there was a good guy. There were also some true moments and we sort of, we pushed, we leaned into those because I said, you know, this is a situation that, you know, guys, sometimes it happens, you know. And so how can we explore it with humor, but also with a little understanding? And I felt like we did that. But ultimately, you realize that you have to go at some point.

You know, I may have overstayed my welcome a little bit, but they finally wrote this episode about the cardboard baby. And I was like, oh, boy, okay. I was like, I don't really understand. I don't, honestly, I was like, what? You know, I said, is it funny? Yeah. One of those were kind of, and they said, oh, no, it's hilarious.

I was like, okay. and he would because I felt it was very disingenuous of him you know and I thought but I could also see that he was trying to do something that he thought was funny so you know he sort of he lost the plot a little bit well when Kristen was telling me about that and I love learning more about the behind the scenes how you guys used to do table reads all together yeah and wait for the laughs and see and if it wasn't funny it would get cut yeah that's the yeah and how attached you get to it like she had her own stories but yours is like you know you had your thoughts and opinions on tray bringing the cardboard baby yeah and you made your voice heard but sometimes it just doesn't no they're

like okay thanks enough there were other times that I sort of put my foot down on some things I was like this is no and they were like okay yeah the cardboard baby thing it wasn't that I was didn't want to do it I just said I need to understand where it's coming from and they kind of explained it and I said I don't necessarily agree but I get it and I also realized you know They got to move her on to the next story, you know. Because that was the, that was the breaking point, the cardboard baby. Yep. Yeah.

Yeah. That's how they did it. That's how you left. Did you ever feel like within just like that? Did they talk to you? Oh, yeah. Oh, they did. Yeah.

Yeah, they did. And I spoke about it a little bit with Kristen and I said, you know, they had an idea. And I thought it was not terrible. It's not worthy really of the relationship that we had established and what we'd gone through. So I said I'd love to, but can we, let's have a little more to it, you know, if we're going to revisit the two of them. And they were like, no, we really see it this way. I was like, okay. So you didn't. Any regrets there or no? Wow. I have such fond memories of the original. Yeah. I mean, it was really special. And honestly, you know, when you get a script,

each episode, you get a script, you open it with some trepidation because you don't know, am I wearing clothes in this one or not going to wear clothes. Am I having an emotional breakdown? I don't know what's coming. But the writing was always great. Yeah. Always great. The writing was great and it sounded like you guys had a really good time there.

So we were talking about the mints. Like she said there were like mints always because you guys had a lot of like intimate scenes, right? Yeah, we did. Yeah. So there were like mints for everybody to take and she told this story actually. I don't know when hers is coming about. But she told this story. She said that you were always super respectful.

You took the mints. up the wazoo, and she said Chris Noth was, like, eating, like, onions and peppers and burgers before the shoot. Did you know about that? I did not know about that. Oh, yeah, that was, that was funny. Well, we never saw, you know, my scenes were always with Kristen, you know, so you come into work. There was never a double date. No. No. Occasionally, the group would get together and they would include the men, but so rarely. It's like only one or two shots, I think, as I recall. So I never saw the guys. You never saw the guys. I would occasionally see Corbett walking to the hall with a pink bathrobe and pink fuzzy slippers on.

Really? You know, it's that kind of stuff. He was like, yeah, I'm just going to go shoot this. I'm like, well, good, good luck. You know, it's one of those, but rarely. What a time. Yeah. And that was filmed here in New York. Yeah. Long Island City, Silver Cup. Yeah. And then great locations. I mean, that was the funest thing. Yeah. To be in New York at that time. Yeah, and be filming outside. So how long after that did you get? desperate housewives? Not long. Not long, right? Yeah, not long. I think it's followed pretty quickly.

I don't remember exactly, but yeah. And you were on there for like... I was on for six, six seasons. Six years. Yeah, which it was only supposed to be one. Wow. Yeah. So was your son and wife in the New York?

So he was born in L.A., and then when he was two or three, we decided we'd come back, because we have a place here in New York, we'd come back to New York and he would go to school in New York. Oh, you guys were very very. very planned. Yeah, yeah. We were thinking,

my wife's very flat. So we were just thinking this could work. So we started that. But, you know, it was a thing where, and there was travel, but it wasn't bad

because they would usually put all my stuff at one time. And then I could come in and work for a couple of days and then go back. So while it was, I mean, it wasn't inconvenient,

really, but, you know, it was a trip out to L.A. for a couple days and then back to New York for a week or two weeks. So it wasn't bad, which is part of what you do.

No, I think the reason finally was that they just sort of ran out of stuff for Orson to do on the show. They ran out of stuff. They had me to do some crazy stuff, as you remember. Yeah. Remember, he went through many faces, our dear Orson. Would you do a rewatch of that?

Yeah, certain episodes I thought were great. Whenever Joe Keenan wrote for us for Marcia and I, they were always really sharp and concise. And Marcia is a Juilliard grad. She went to choose theater trained. I'm theater trained. So when you have great dialogue, you just eat it up. It's so good.

Well, Terry Hatcher is doing a rewatch pod now. Oh, is she? Maybe she'll have you on and you could watch one of the episodes. Oh, my gosh. That could be fun. That would be fun. The girls back in the day, there was always like stories of onset drama. Right.

Were you ever part of that? Did the guys get the tea? I was in the middle of all of that. It was all about you. It's all. Yeah. me no no I'm first of all I'm oblivious by nature yeah and then again kind of similar to the other shows it's like I come in I work with Marcia right we do our stuff I go home yeah you know and then as I'm

going home you know Doug's coming in or Jamie's coming in as I oh let's see it it's a little bit like you clock in you clock out you clock in you clock out how I mean now that you're talking like gen z's and and this world yeah and you look back at the times that you were on these shows that were so relevant, so in the pop culture, zeitgeist. But obviously, no social media, no internet. Not really. Not really. So, like, what was happening at that time?

Like, how were you? Well, we all went to bed and we went home. We went to bed. That was what it was. You went to work, went home. Yeah. But, like, obviously was in the, like I said, in the pop culture zeitgeist, but like, where was it all happening?

Where was it all being talked about? Like, how different is that from today? Was there paparazzi, like, around the world? the set. No. People talking about your dating lives. No, not really. I mean, you really had to, you would, you know, you'd do an interview, really.

Yeah. I mean, for publication or something or on, you know, on talk show or something and talk about what was happening. But yeah, there was really very limited access. And you could control it for the most part. It was up to you whether you spoke about something or didn't or, or you went public with something, you know, but it was a different world. And now that you compare the two?

Oh, my gosh. The now and the then. Yeah, it's like, it's like privacy is so difficult to have, right? Yeah. And yet it's still, I mean, honestly, working in fallout, which is coming out soon. And they're incredibly careful about what's revealed and when, when it comes out. And, you know, there's a, there's a Fort Knox kind of feel. Oh, yeah, I saw they don't give screeners for that.

Yeah, very, very tight. And I think, I mean, I love that actually because it'll, it's really, it allows you to discover it, you know, and really have an experience for the fans, as opposed to something leaking out or hearing stories. It's like, it's so much nicer when it's like, we're going to come to this fresh. It's such a great thing. But then the production and everyone in charge really has to be like on top of that. Oh, lockdown. Because if not, then you have like Devil Wears Prada 2 where we saw so many paparazzi shots.

Yeah. We know guest stars, you know, which again goes back to what we were talking about with like the mysterious versus not. Yeah. Like, don't know if I love that. I don't know if I love to know that, you know, who did we see? Sidney Sweeney might pop in or whoever was photographed outside. Or the outfits that are such a big deal. Right.

It's so fun to see them when they revealed on the screen, you know. Now, we were shooting, for the most part, you know, in studios with, you know, security and everything like that. So everything was pretty tight. And you worked with Walton, Goggins on that. Yeah, Walton, yeah. And you kind of watched his really big. big moment to happen, right?

Oh, yeah. With the White Lotus. Yeah. Yeah. What a great show. What a great performance. Yeah. How happy were you for him to see him?

You know, both of us have been in the business for a while and have done things and have successful things and things that have no, have notoriety to a certain degree or not. And so when something, all the work that he's done pays off in such a wonderful way on a show that everyone watches, I mean, that's really, you love it so much. You appreciate it so much, I think. Because, I mean, the work is the work, but to have it watched and recognized and people saying, hey, great work, that's as an actor, that's really a lovely feeling. And sometimes it could take years to get to that.

Years and years and years. So you really, like, embrace it and. Yeah. And you're not different, and the work is not different. He does, you know, he works, he's a hard work on everything you do. It's just this one happened to like, you know, it's like Twin Peaks. happened to click like this and you never know would you feel like white lotus is a one of the dreams oh yeah yeah i mean yeah mike white's brilliant yeah and and he creates fascinated characters

rich characters right and that really to me is that's why i do it i could see you all being in the running for if you watch the last season jason isaac's character yeah right yeah you could give that vibe yeah yeah yeah thank you yeah that's nice That would totally, I could totally see that happening. You're married for 23 years in Hollywood. Yep. That's like a hundred and... That's a hundred and how many in actor years.

Right. How do you make it work? Oh, God, it's so easy. I married the most amazing person in the world. She's incredible. And I know she's listening, so I have to say, no. Wait, she's an incredible. Well, she started.

Okay. Yeah, and now she's, she does, I mean, I can't even begin to explain. how connected she is in the world. I mean, she's a full pick, right? Is it her agency? Yeah, that's her company. Huge. Yeah. Huge. It's huge. That's everything. Everything. I mean, she, from producing to investing to supporting women's causes, women's issues, which are very important to her, she's just everywhere. How did you meet?

We met at a chiropractor's office. So I say if I hadn't injured my back, I have bad. bad discs, bad discs, multiple bad discs. And if I hadn't been sitting there in my little traction chair sitting next to Blake Edwards, who was also in the traction room with me. And she walked past the door doorway. Like, how long does it take for someone to walk past the door frame, right? Like a second. Right. And I saw her and I was like, who was that? And I was sitting in my little traction chair. And then she walked back out again really quickly. And I was like, what the heck? And so I got out of my chair and I walked up just to say hello to her at the desk and I was sort of too shy to

like get any information away to contact her again but I I don't know I just was like so taken with her the next night we were at the same party together in Los Angeles and I saw her again and then I didn't let her out of my sight like you were about to ask the doctor's office to violate HIPAA and like give you her info or what's her number what's your name so you happened to see her the next night at a Hollywood party yeah because she was already in the biz and you were in the biz? She was out, yeah, she was out, where she lived in New York, but she was in L.A. Yeah, she was going to an event.

She was here for the weekend because it was the vanity fair, the Vanity Fair weekend. And she was out just, you know, kind of doing, you know, doing the rounds and stuff. And I was out, which was rare. I was, it was Tina Brown's talk magazine Oscar party at the Monreale. Why was it rare for you to, you didn't? I don't go out much, yeah. Even back in the day. Even back in the day.

Yeah, yeah, I would go out, you know, occasionally I would go out. stuff, but usually to dinner, parties are like, they make me nervous. So, but I was there and I saw her. What was your pickup line? It said, how's your back? No, I don't know what I said. You don't know, you don't remember. Hey, it's me.

Hey, remember we met and the thing and that? I have the bad back. But you didn't really meet because she just walked by. I got out of my chair and I actually went up and we had a brief conversation at the desk. Yeah. And then since then? yeah since then oh my god that's so special we're married 23 together to 20 26 is she involved in things that you do because she's such a yeah yeah yeah very much so in fact i'd mentioned earlier

the podcast that had varnum town she produced that and that was one of the many many things that she does and also just her she's got she's got a great take on things i i listen to her what she says her ideas she's really smart and i may look at something i have a certain perspective and she has a completely different perspective and it's always worth hearing and usually she's well not usually she's always right honestly and we have a beautiful sun together and yeah it's pretty nice we'll be right back after the break thank god i'm a quince partner because i literally deserve to me because all i do is shout quince's praises okay i just posted like the other week i can't stop wearing this mongolian cashmere sweater i also mentioned that like

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The code is not skinny 10 for 10% off your order. The link is also in the show notes. Your first great love story is free when you sign up for a free 30-day trial at audible. That's audible.ca slash wondering. And we're back. And is she involved in your wine brand? Pursued by bear. No, thank you.

And I understand you like you enjoying wine. Why don't we have wine? No, we were going to have wine, but we drank it all. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. We drank it all in the car. Yeah, you drank it all in the car. I'm going to get, we're going to get some to you.

So you're a big wine guy? Yes, yes. I started in high school. When did you start? To drink? You don't have to answer that. No, no. It's high school.

Yeah, I didn't like, that's when everyone starts. I didn't like spirits so much, and I wasn't a big beer drinker. So all it was left was wine. And I kind of, I like the romance of it, I think, and kind of it felt grown up. Like the white Zinfandel back in the day, like the, like the, the awful sweet stuff that would give you huge headaches, yeah. Horrible, but that's how it started. And then I grew up in a part of the world.

Well, I'm from eastern Washington, and the wine world there started to explode sort of in the 80s and 90s. And I was watching it, and I said, I think I want to get involved. So she, and she said, you should stop talking about it and go do this. And I said, okay. And initially, I was focused on Napa because living in L.A., I thought that was close. And I had Napa friends, Napa winemakers.

and she said, the story is Washington. And I said, you're absolutely right. That's my home. So back we went, and I made the acquaintance of a great winemaker, and off we went. In 2005 was my first vintage. Wow. It's been at it for 20 years.

How much does a 2005 bottle go for? It's still available and still within our price range. What does that mean? I don't know. I probably wouldn't even sell it. I would probably just say, here, have this and try it. Because it's like, it's a good gift to bring to, like, a holiday party. Wine is a great gift.

And especially like a vintage. Yeah. So what are you a red or a white guy? Well, I'm red primarily, but I also have a chardonnay, two chardonnets that I make that are really good. But I'm really particular about my white wine. It has to be. Dry? Yeah, dry, lean, more burgundian, and it's like a white burgundy.

So a little lighter. The wine bar. Yeah. And you have to ask for a wine. Well, I'll check the list. Yeah. buy the glass, and I'll find something that I'm interested in. Sometimes, you know, I change.

Or if I'm, if I'm having dinner, I'll ask the sommelier, I said, you know, I see everything here. He said, what do you like right now? What's in the seller that you think is really like popping? And I said, here's my price range. It's kind of what I like. Oh, you say the price range. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I just say, you know, I'll spend this much money, roughly this. Really? But I said also, you know, if there's stuff around that. Yeah. Yeah. Because if not, they'll try to sell you the most expensive one, no? No, they're usually pretty good. They probably can size.

They'll give you the middle one. Yeah. This is pretty good. This is pretty good. But they'll always have something interesting. And usually, and I can tell if it's something that they're just trying to move. Yeah. But usually they get excited about sharing something because they've curated the seller, hopefully.

Yeah. And they've brought everything in. So they have their favorites. And they said, I love this. This is really, you know, it's like this. Where did the name come from? It's from a Shakespeare play. And I love Shakespeare.

I grew up doing Shakespeare. And so in Act 3, Scene 3 of the Winter's Tale, he wrote a stage direction, exit pursued by a bear, which is his craziest stage direction he ever wrote. And the stage, a bear comes on stage. Yeah, it is. And some people get it. Like, sometimes you're in a restaurant,

and someone's working there, and they're like, they're an actor, and this is what they're doing to make money. And they give me a little wink, and they said, I know where that's from. So, and English lit majors usually get it as well. Right, right, right. Those are the only two that get it. Those are the only two.

Wait, so when you got into acting, it was through theater when you were younger. Yeah. But was it, did I read that it was more your mom kind of pushed you into it? Yeah, she was the one who was sort of nudging, nudging all of us, but mainly me in that direction. She was very musical and involved in the theater, very artsy, and she was part of the community theater in my little town. and she was a teacher background. She grew up, she was a teacher. So you're a Nepo baby.

No, I'm just kidding. I'm a Nepo baby exactly. Napo baby of theater. And she wanted, she thought theater was really important for kids to be engaged in, you know. And in my hometown, there wasn't a lot. So she kind of helped initiate some things in the community. We had a teenage theater group, which I thought was totally nerdy and I did not want to be a part of it. But then I went because she insisted and she needed help.

And then I was like, well, this is actually kind of fun. And there were a lot of kids. to my age and they were all fun and they were cute girls around and stuff. So I was like, all right, I'll go again. And then it just kind of, I became enchanted with it. You fell in love with it. I did. Yeah, I did, just from that.

And then I tried to resist it. Like, I did plays and musicals in high school. I went to college. I said, I can't do any more theater. This is done. I got to find a real job. And I... What did you go to college for?

I was just liberal arts. I didn't know what I wanted to do, honestly. And I, you know, I pledged and the whole thing and the big college, yeah, it was a deal. was like, okay, I'm just like my dad. And I just did not fit in. In the frat world. Yeah. Yeah.

My brother was totally fit in. My youngest brother, yeah. He was all in. But I just couldn't sort of get myself around it. And then I just sort of took an acting class because I was so unhappy. And that made me happy. I said, oh, man, I guess this is where I'm supposed to go. Why were you trying to resist it, though?

I didn't know. I didn't feel like it was a way to make it. I didn't know how you made a living as an actor as a career. I had nothing to sort of judge it by, but I knew that I had a talent for it and I knew that the program, that program at the university at that time was a professional training program,

specifically to train you for repertory theater. And I said, that's what I want to do. So I just said, okay. So from there you continued to... Yeah, for three years. And then I graduated and I worked at the Shakespeare Festival in Ashland. I worked at a little theater in Seattle, intending to go to New York.

And I auditioned for Dune when I was in Seattle. before I left. And that led to a meeting with David Lynch and a screen test, another screen test, and I got the job. Your first job? First job. I was out of school. I wasn't out of school a year. Wow. Yeah. So weird. Crazy story. Yeah. Like, and I was like, oh, okay, this is how it works. Like, you know, cut two years later, I'm like, that does not the way it works at all, at all. But David Lynch and I had this great connection, and I knew Dune, like, it was, like, a very important book for me when I was like 14, 15. Still important. I still love it. So suddenly there I was playing the role.

So weird. And what is it like seeing the Dune today? I really enjoyed it. Yeah? Yeah. I mean, I love the story so much. And I was curious about how it was going to be interpreted. I don't know.

I loved it. I enjoyed it. It was fun to see scenes. It was kind of, it was very nostalgic for me, actually. I was watching these scenes going, oh, I remember being in Mexico City. And we shot at the studios Chitabusco. And I remember the actors I worked with. And so it was a, I had a very unusual response to it.

But I really love it. Can't wait for that Timothy Chalamey episode. I know. We're going to have a, whoa. It's going to be so good. It may have to be a two-parter. Okay. So more things that happened this year that you may or may not have manifested.

Yes. You walk the Vogue World Runway. How did that happen? Accident. Timothy was not available. No. They just reached out. You know, I had sort of a fashion moment in my life back in the 90s.

And I don't know. I think it was, I had done product. couple years ago. I'd walked in the prodder show in Milan with Jeff as well, Jeff Goeblum, and among many actors that they had. And so Jeff and I opened and he closed. And then Jeff was there. I get it at the world at the thing. And so it was so fun to see. And we were like, look at us. What are we doing here? Models. A couple models. It was like, what are we even doing here? Honestly, that was exactly the explanation. And we just had fun. I'm just glad I didn't fall down. So that was important. I mean, it was really fun to be part of it. I mean, it was really a

beautiful experience. It was cool this year. It was at the universal. Paramount. Yeah. Paramount. Yeah. It was, I was like, this is actually really cool to be part of, you know. Yeah. So many beautiful fabrics and clothing and great people, really fun people. Yeah, it was really fun. You never know like what opportunity could come up next. Maybe you'll go on dancing with the stars. There's not a chance. Really? I can't dance. No, I can't dance. Don't ask me. That's a no song. So we're saying a hell's no. I don't think I could. survive, honestly. With the back, with the discs. The knees. No, let me tell you.

So no dancing with the stars. So what else are we manifesting for this year for you? We're manifesting a series based on a podcast that I've done. So that's, and we're manifesting that. We're manifesting, we're manifesting, what else are we manifesting? We're manifesting. We're manifesting a really, really good first-year college experience for my son, because he's flying for colleges, not doing that. How do you feel about him leaving the nest? I'm very mixed, very mixed on it. Because he needs, it's time for him to go spread his wings and, you know, explore the world,

but he's our only one. And my wife and I are going to be empty nesters. And, you know, we're busy people and all that. but he is such a joy. His presence in the house and in our life brings so much joy. And we'll continue to do so, but he just won't be present as much.

All the time. Yeah. He'll be present, but in a different way. So I don't know what that experience is going to be like. Is he going far? He wants to, no, he doesn't want to say in California. He wants to go somewhere.

Yeah, it'll be farish. It'll be farish. Yeah. Yeah, we always want to go far. Don't know why. Okay, so since you're all up in the Gen Z, you'll. Let's see if you really are all up in the Gen Z.

Z and test you on some sayings and see if you know what they mean. Okay. I don't even know. Okay. What does it mean to glaze somebody? To glaze somebody. Glaze. Wow.

I don't know what this means to glaze somebody. Take a guess. I mean, I think it means to like cover disregard to not give them any time of day. So opposite a little bit. it's to hype them up. Ah, nice. Yeah. I like that.

Okay, now we know. Goaded. Goaded. Yeah. Well, you're the greatest of all. Right. So it's like the best, right? Yeah, totally.

Chopped. Chopped is not attractive. Like, even worse than not attractive. Even worse. Unk. That would be me. Wait so you know this one. And you're not unc.

Ah, bless you. Okay, I don't know this one. I don't even know how to print. Gaiet. Gaiat. Oh, Gat. Gat. Gat.

Gat. You pronounce it Gat. Yeah. Yeah. That is, yeah, that's not a good one. We shouldn't, we shouldn't mention that. What does it mean? We should go past that one.

Oh, it's goddamn. Yeah. Yeah. We're not damning. No. Crash out. Oh, yeah. As you said, it's like, you're done.

Yeah. Or a farming. Oh, yeah. Building your building somebody up and you're building it up, building yourself up. Oh, so you knew the, or you knew aura farming. Yes. You've heard of it.

I have. Wild to me. I have a 17 year old son. He says aura farming around the house? Well, no, not really. Not really. He sort of rejected all of that. There are a few things that he likes.

And honestly, he doesn't use the terminology around the house, the vernacular. It's amongst his friends and at school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it changes so quickly. I mean, everything that I know and expressions and things that I've heard are probably already done. Yeah. And they moved on to a whole new thing. It's like this thing called Cockney rhyming slang.

That's where you do it. They would speak in these things so the police wouldn't know what they were talking about. So the parents are the police and they're talking in language. So we have no idea what they're saying. And they don't want us to know. Op. Up. Yeah.

Yeah. Your optics. No. Enemy. Yeah. And then the six, seven of it all. Well, we don't know what that is. Right.

No, no one really knows. That's the truth. Yeah. You got it. Yeah. You nailed it. Some of them I'm not familiar with, but some I am. Do you know, put the fries in the bag?

Put the fries in the bag. Yeah. No. Get to the point. I kind of like that. I do too. There's some that I like, you know, I spill the tea. It's like, I totally get that.

But now I'm tracking which ones we like. We like the ones that like make sense. Yeah. You know, they like mean something. And they're fun. Their words, they're fun. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, the ones that are like, yeah or less it's it's like we get we acknowledge the brilliance of the of the generations and that's so smart that's so clever it's really funny well here's the thing about genzy that i don't like when they make general statements about what's allowed and what's not allowed you know they're like no skinny jeans no ankle socks you know right that's my well i have stopped wearing ankle socks because they said yes yes it's absolutely out and my team has said no more ankle socks you know it was, is because during my podcast, when I sit there, it's a full kind of body. I don't know where the framing is here. We're probably a little tight. Well, we are. I can see it here. We're

tighter. But in mine, you see, and I would wear no socks with my shoes. And they're like, you do not have attractive ankles. You should not be wearing no socks. And I took it to heart. And so now I wear socks. No ankle socks here. No, and is it more, it's more comfortable too. It's better. Your ankles are protected. So they know. So they never, they don't get cold. Genzi knows what's up, you guys. Kyle, thank you for being here. I've had such a fun. great to meet you. Thanks for letting me ramble on. Of course. Ramble anytime. Okay. Cool. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Not Skinny but Not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny but Not Fat. Subscribe to the podcast. We don't miss any episodes. Rate the

podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcast and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocharoo. Thank you guys so much for listening. And I'll see you next Tuesday. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.