Not Skinny But Not Fat - LAW ROACH: HOW ZENDAYA'S STYLIST BUILT HIS OWN EMPIRE

Episode Date: November 26, 2024

The only image architect in the world, and stylist to stars like Zendaya & Celine Dion: Law Roach on his humble beginngs, his retirement, working with Zendaya, the biz, being aromantic and more.Produced by Dear MediaThis episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to the Not Skinny Bonafat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch, and I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars from my very own podcast, where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. hey guys happy tuesday today's episode with law roach you guys i was very intimidated by him you know he just gave miranda priestly devil wears prada energy and i was like oh my god and i can't believe i did i did i wore the ugliest outfit that day like i wore a blouse i don't know why i put a blouse on like i should have tried to impress him and instead sometimes when i get like extra stress i just go in the other direction i completely lean in so it's like scared to dress ugly

dress you're ugliest that day. So what was shocking to me is that he's not Miranda Priestley at all. He was so kind and so warm. And he even told me when I was like, just you know like I just thought you were like that kind of vibe. He said to me

like, I know that's what I like to put forth. Don't tell anybody that I'm nice. Literally you said that to me. So sorry law. I'm telling the world that you are in fact nice and kind and complimentary. Like even though I could tell you didn't like my outfit because at some point I was like, I don't even know what I wore today. He's like,

you know, you decided to put that on. I was like, you're right. I did. But anyway, you're going to love this one. I love talking to him. But I just want to say hi. What else is up? You guys, a lot is up. Listen, there's a lot up. And you guys that know me know that I have this issue. You know, this might be pick me. I think this is what the kids call pick me. And if it's called pick me, then fuck that. Because I don't think I'm pick me. I'm more like I question society when society is all in one page. I want to know why. Like, what's the other page? Why are we all in this crazy town? I just want to question other stuff. So there's a lot of hype right now about Lindsay Lohen and I'm game. That's the thing. I'm so game. I fucking love Lindsay Lohen. I love

Fricky Friday. I'm so excited for the reboot. I love mean girls. Obviously, what kind of fucking millennial would I be? And I'm of course happy for her that after literally 13 times in rehab, she's back she's looking healthier than ever. She's looking better than ever. She has a child. She's married. Like, so fucking happy for her. But I do feel like it's a little much,

a little much, so much that we're acting like pure royalty. We are acting like she's an Oscar winning actress. And I honestly think no one agrees with me. But she went and watched what happens live. And she wasn't even smug about it, to be honest. But Andy just asked her, was there any movies that you auditioned for that you didn't get,

that you can tell us about that you were bummed about and she was like I didn't audition since parent trap and everyone's like oh my god oh my god she didn't audition since parent trap

like what a queen Lindsay what a queen and I'm like you guys what movies has she been in like Georgia rule fucking loved it okay even though read up Jane Fonda was not happy

with her back then I love it though but yeah she was in mean girls I kind of get why she didn't have to audition for that it was like fucking practically written for her but yeah since her comeback let's just take a moment and

say what the truth is. That's my problem with society. If you're going to over hype just let's be honest about what's going on. What's going on is she's in Christmas movies, Christmas Netflix movies. And you know what? I'm sure none of you fucking watched the last one, that holiday one where she like has a concussion wake so I doesn't remember her fiance. Like let's be honest, none of you watched it. So stop pretending

like she's like in your ghost Lanthimos's newest film. I wish I want her to be the next Emma Stone. but for now she's in Netflix Christmas movies. So that's all. I just like us to just note what's going on. At the same time, we have Ariana Grande who obviously gets so much shit for her love life. And I will say this. Obviously, the timing is sus. You know, the timing of her and Ethan Slater and when she got divorced and when he got divorced and obviously his situation is kind of really icky because he had a tiny little baby when this all went down. And to be honest, I will always tell you the truth of what I've heard. And the truth of what I've heard is that that is true that he did meet Ariana on

the set. He did leave his wife and baby. That's obviously gross. There is a small part of me that will say love is love. And like, if two people fall in love, what are you going to do? Even though it's so gross. And obviously, if it was done to you or done to me, we would fucking kill, kill him. But I'm also like, yeah, the bright thing would have been like, I met someone. fell in love with Ariana Grande. I'm breaking up my fam. I mean, Olivia Wilde did it for Harry. That didn't end up working out. I will just say at the end of the day, even though I did hear whispers that that's what went down, re-him. I think re-her, her, her and Dalton were long gone.

What I've heard about them is that when they were married at the beginning, it was COVID. And, like, he didn't experience, like, the real outdoors Ariana Grande. He experienced that, like, she's at home with me. I'm a real estate agent. Literally a Douglas Elliman. She likes normies, you guys. oh my God, that's the pattern. She likes Normies a little bit because Pete was pretty Normie

when she dated him and was engaged, never forget. Fucking, that Douglas Elliman fucking real estate agent she was married to Dalton. And now Ethan Slater, I mean, Normie. I will say that I did see his audition for something else. I won't

tell you what. I did see his audition tape for something else that I was like, oh my God, a little cringe. But I know his press tour for Wicked. People liked him. He seemed really sweet and really genuine. So it's hard because you're like, okay, tell us something that will make us not hate you

for leaving your new baby and wife after, I think they were like high school sweethearts or something. Anyway, yes, don't love it. But I did also hear like, you guys don't know the whole story. Obviously, Ariana has said there's a lot of untruths going on. So I do like to give people the benefit of the doubt of like, okay, we don't know everything. We can't assume.

Even though I did really assume about Olivia Wilde because I was like, you guys, you blew up a family. even though I did also hear that. Anyway, I'm all over the place. My point is, Ariana Grande, I will separate that from this Ethan Slater thing, is the cutest thing on this press tour. Obviously, they're all the jokes about her and Cynthia, basically having sex and all their interviews and being all over each other.

Drew Barrymore, what? But I think at the end of the day, I love seeing gratefulness. I love seeing humility and I love seeing her appreciation. I love her saying, of course I motherfucking auditioned. What do you guys think this was hand? to me. This was my dream role, even though her dream role was Elphaba, which is interesting. But since she was like 10 years old, she wanted to do this, she's like, of course I auditioned. I trained my ass off. I worked my ass off. This is all earned. And I love that. And now there's even buzz about

her being an Oscar nom contender, which again, I do love. Like, I love hard work. I love appreciation. And it really does feel like she's there. So I'm excited to see it. I have not. seen it yet. I also want to see baby girl. Listen, is there a part of me that's a little over Nicole Kidman? Yes. Is she in every movie and show this year? Yes. Like I'm watching a lioness. She's there. That's Zach Efron movie. Here's the thing that Zach Ephron movie with Joey King, like she was the older woman having an affair with the younger guy, which I love, by the way, that that's a new trend for movies. Usually it's the older guy having an affair with the younger girl. I do like it. I feel like it's been done a lot lately. And,

and especially by Nicole Kidman. But I am really excited for this because this Harris Dickinson guy is one of those like unexplained, I mean, not unexplained hotties. Like he's very straightforwardly hot, but I feel like his Riz, if you will, just in the trailer alone. I'm like, oh my God, I understand the affair. Like honestly, understand the affair. So it looks so hot. I think like one of Nicole's like famous headlines from it is like she was so sick of orgasm.

She needed a break. I don't know if that was a joke. I don't know if she was like pretend orgasming. But they're literally calling it an erotica. Like they're calling it an erotica. So I don't know what is in store for us, but I am very, very excited to see it. Anyway, that's all for me, guys,

on the latest, like, kind of updates that are going on. It is Friday morning as I'm recording this. Noah is sick and throwing up all over. Lenny decided to be back to waking up a gazillion times a night, heading into the weekend where it's a new thing. When your parents, you wait for the week. Wait for the week. It's not wild.

You no longer wait for the weekend. You wait for the week to start. But anyway, enjoy this episode with Law Roach. I can't wait for you to hear it. And obviously, it's always let me know what you think. And also, don't forget to rate and review the podcast. You guys, Law Roach is here. Hi.

I'm so excited that you're here. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. And I have to say off the bat that you're, like, different than I thought you were going to be. Really? Yeah. In what way? That I, like, was a little intimidated at the thought of you.

Uh-huh. And then I'm, like, you're so disarming once you meet you. Okay. Do you get that sometimes? No, I get that a lot of times. People have this, this thing that I'm going to be like this diva, like this, you know, nose in the air, whatever. I can't be touched. I can't be bothered.

I am nothing like that. Nothing like that. No. I don't know if I thought diva, but maybe just, like, Like, you know, maybe more guarded or like more. Well, maybe I will get guarded. I know. Maybe you're going to like, my walls are about to come out.

You haven't started asking questions yet, so maybe. Well, it's going to be tell. So you're in town for the CFDAs this? I was, yeah. How was that? CFJs is always nice. Yeah. It's like, are you a fashion friend, you know, we all get together, you know, celebrate each other.

So, because I was going to ask, because I remember it being super, like, prestigious just getting an invite to that, right? And now, like, you see some people that are maybe not as much in the fashion industry, not eight-listers. How do you feel about that? No, I think it's great. I think just celebrating our community, so what it is, I think, it's like some of the brands have tables, and they bring people that aren't so closely related to fashion just to give

them that experience. And I think that's great. I think that fashion should be not so behind the red, you know, the red velvet ropes. Yeah, I think so. Should be a little bit more inclusive. Really? Yeah. Because I was thinking.

Tell me. No, I was just like, you know, there's some things that have such a, like, prestigious vibe where you're like, wow, like to get an invite to that. That's like she. And then, like you say, gets opened up to like maybe influencers and aren't so much in fashion. But I love that you love it. I was wondering if you were judging it. just think that for me being trying so hard and working so hard to be in this industry and

accept it and also to thrive in this industry like who am I to say that somebody shouldn't be somewhere right because that's the same those that's the way people looked at me when I first started so I would be contradicting everything that I stand for to say oh they don't deserve to be here so true that's such a healthy mindset unlike my own so you said seeing all your fashion friends so you're friends with like other stylists and yeah a little bit of Yeah, a little. I mean, you know, it's a community. And so, you know, it's people I've worked with over the years designers and, you know, just, you know, former clients and the people that you just been in these rooms with for so long. And like, it's nice to everybody be dressed up and to see each other and also celebrate. Celebrate people. Like I wore Willie Chavaria and he actually won the menswear designer of the year. And so it was really great to be dressed by him there with him, you know, like people that you've rooted for. Right, because it's not just like, there's so, I saw, there was so many that were honored. Yeah.

Like that won, you won in 2022, right? Yeah. The inaugural. Stylus Award. Yeah. The only one. Nobody's won it since. Damn.

How long does that state? Like, is there a, like a, like a. Hopefully forever. I want to be the only one. I hope. I hope that you are. Yeah. And you were also here.

I saw for that bureau, Tom Holland's bureau. No, I wasn't here. I actually was in Morocco, but I dressed in day. And she was there. Yeah, yeah. You had that really good vid. Yeah. You posted it, right?

Yeah. Of her dress. Yeah. So did, because Tom was wearing a similar color. Did you, do you ever dress him? So I used to dress Tom before I retired. I dressed Tom for three years. So like all the Spider-Man press tour, all that stuff.

So I did all that. Used to dress him as a dad together. And when I retired, I don't know the right word, but my assistant became his stylist. My assistant Crystal Cox became his stylist. Oh, that's cool. Yeah. So she's one of my fashion baby. So, you know, I love that. I love him and I love her. And I wanted to make sure that he went to someone that could take care of him and understand his needs. And so she had worked with me with him over the year. So it was just like an easy, nice transition for both of them. That's so cool if you guys think about it because we know how you dress Zendaya, right? And it could be very like out there, different looks that are daring and stuff. And then you have Tom Holland, who's more straightforward and, you know, more consistent. conservative in a way.

No, Tom's a boy's boy. Like, he's a boy. Yeah. You know what I mean? And like you do both and that just shows you like the job of a stylist. Yeah, you have to have range. If you're good at it, you have to have range. Yeah.

Yeah, because Tom is British, so he grew up wearing suits. He's, you know, the Brits are really into tailoring and the fit of things. And so, yeah, so he's different in that, in that aspect. So I just found something that worked for him and created, kind of like, cultivated a style for him that worked. And now Crystal is working with him and the style is changing a little bit. It's changing to more who he is right now in his life. And it's so great to watch someone who worked for me and was trained by me to be successful.

That is really cool. We'll be right back after the break. This is a very important, alert, alert, alert, alert. You can now shop Brooklynians, luxury bedding and bath essentials at Bloomingdale's. This is huge and I'll tell you why. You feel much more comfortable to buy. at stores that you know the minute i heard that brook linens luxury bedding and bath essentials are now

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Let's say Tom Holland, right? And he's more like, I'm used to suits. Are you ever like, try this bell bottom? Never. Really? No, I just, I don't think that's what a real stylist does. You don't change people, right? You just elevate them, right?

And so maybe it's not a, bell bottom that I led him towards, but maybe it's just a different color combination in a silhouette that he understood, but just a different color he had never worn before. So I think those are the tiny little pushes that you want. You don't want somebody to completely become someone else because they won't be comfortable and they won't be confident. And our job is to have our clients as confident and as comfortable as possible so they can just get out and be and be the superstar they are and not think about the clothes. What they're wearing. Yeah. When you say comfortable, do you actually care about comfort because I was like, what do you mean by comfortable?

Comfortable in your own skin, not so much comfortable in the clothes. I got you. And that is true. Because if you're wearing something that you feel like isn't you, then you'll be like thinking about it the whole time. And people notice that. And people notice that. But okay, we have to go back to this. You keep on saying, I'm retired, but I did this.

I'm retired, but I did that. So what is it though? Are you retired or are you not retired? So I am, let's say, 95% retired from being a stylist. When I retired, I had 12 clients. I carried 12, 15 clients of the biggest stars in the world through music, through Hollywood, through sports, you know, Louis Hamilton, Venus Williams, Zendaya, Carrie Washington, you know, all these people. And so I step back from all of that. And so now I only work with Zendaya and Celine Dion.

Because these are two women who had, who really changed my life and changed the trajectory of my career and really made me who I am today. So it's like, how could I say no? And Zaday is like my sister. So I just couldn't say no. She probably punched me in the face. Was she like, you're not leaving me? Oh, no, she did say that. Yeah.

Yeah. It was very serious about it. Like you can't, you can retire, but not for me. She was very serious about it. Wow. So it's like retired with an asterisk. Correct. Okay.

Because let's remember all, we all remember, which I can't believe this is now a year ago, right? Almost a year that you said, you got upset about something, right? And was that really the catalyst, though, like that moment that happened for you to retire? Was it like building up? It was, it was building. I was just, people don't really understand that a stylist that it's a service job because people think it's glamorous, right? People like, oh, you get to be with celebrities and you get to fly here on private jets. and the clothes and the diamonds.

And I think it's really, really glamorous and it's probably one of the most non-glamorous jobs. And people don't know that, right? And so it was just me being of service to people in that way. You know, it's no different from the gardener or the babysitter or the chef or the housekeeper. It's the same thing. I'm just carrying it clothes and not a mop, right?

But I'm on call 24 hours a day. Whenever they need something, I'm picking up the phone. If they say, I'm going to New York, I need you be in New York tomorrow, I'm calling my agent, we're booking a flight. And that part had got started getting to me and also, you know, feeling disposable, you know, at any time they can choose to go to somewhere else. So, and then it's always, optically, it's always looked at it like it's our fault. And now I'm speaking for all stylists, right? So it's that burden that you're carrying. And it's also me being, being black and being in a.

space where there's not a lot of people that look like me and wearing that burden of I have to be 10 times better than the others and work harder. But you did it, but you did those things. I did those things with this burden, right? And so it was just, it got to me and I was tired of carrying that burden and tired of being of service. And so I started to figure out ways to be of service to people in a different way that filled me up instead of, you know, depleting me. And so that's why I am now in my life. How did your other clients feel about it? it. I mean, you know, it's a lot of people that felt the way about it. Yeah. You know, and some were really nice and, you know, called me and make sure I was okay mentally and everything.

And, you know, some asked, said it would have been nice for me to say something to them. But I didn't know I was going to do that. It was, it was impromptu. Oh, you mean they saw the Instagram. Like everybody else. Zendaya, too. No one knew. No one knew. Zendaya texted. She was like, well, you know, you probably could have called me in. It was just, I had just, at that point, I was so overcome with emotion and I was crying. And I really wrote it because I wanted the phone to stop ringing. Like, I just, you wrote it with intention. It wasn't like, you don't regret it. It was like, I'm putting this out there. And then you would kind of be ridden of it. Yeah, I just didn't know that it was going to turn into what it, what it turned into. Like,

it turns to this huge news story. It did. That actually stuck around for a while, which I was surprised about. And, but I just, at that moment, it was like, it was so many, the Met Gallo was coming and And people were calling and, you know, my agent was calling, a publicist was calling. And it was all these things. And I was just like, I want to have some peace. But when I said it, then I was like, okay, now I have to stand in it because I said it. Ah, right? Take accountability for your.

Right. And so I said it. And so when I did that, now I know that I made the right decision. So you're, you feel good about that decision. I feel great about it. It's the best thing I ever did in my life. Wow. So then I'm happy for, I'm really happy for you.

Thank you. And then you clarified, you said, y'all really think I'm breaking out with Z? We are forever. Yeah, because what happened? She's my little sister and it's real love, not the fake industry love. Right.

Which is a little zingering towards someone that we don't know. Like, will we ever know what happened that time with the Met Gala? What client pissed you off? Like, will you ever... Yeah, we probably know when the memoir comes out. I'm not writing a memoir right now,

just to be clear, but like, yeah, it's a story that should be told. It should, you know, but I'm just in a place where I am still in the industry. I still have a lot of respect for the industry that made me who I am. But when it's time for me to tell my complete story, yes, I will definitely tell the story. And you wanted to focus on your mental and physical health.

Like, were you able to do that? Do you feel at a better place? Yeah, I was depressed for a while after the retirement because I just didn't know who I was outside of being, you know, law roach to stylist, law roach to image architect, you know. Laura, so I had to find me and figure me out and learn how to love me and find joy and happiness. And I figured out, one of my biggest lessons is I figured out that happiness is a habit and you have to work on it. Just like, you know, you want to work on, you know, eating well and exercising. It's a habit, you know what I mean?

And I had to figure out that happiness was as well and I have to work on it. And so every day I work on being happy. I wake up, happy even when people piss me off. I, you know, I rebound for it and say it's not worth sacrificing my happiness for that. And, you know, I just, it feels so good. You know what they even say, you even say that if you smile, like if you make smile, you can trick your brain. Yeah. And you can actually do that as an exercise.

Yeah, because your brain doesn't know the difference. Right. Your brain doesn't know the difference. And you are right. It's a habit. It's not a choice. Like, you're right. You can be depressed.

You can have bad days, but there are choices you can make maybe to not get as upset as you would about something. But when did your fashion interest start? When I was a little boy, I just really, I'm just obsessed with women. I am so obsessed with women. And I think being a woman is an art form. And as a young boy, I knew that I wanted to play a part in that some type of way. It took me a long time to figure out that styling. and clothes would be it.

But I just used to love to just see women be women and the makeup and the hair and, you know, getting dressed up. And, you know, I'm really, really obsessed with the women that is like who is like a 24-hour thing for them. Like, they're always done. Yeah. I just heard a story. I forgot who it was, but they said that their husband had never saw them without makeup. You love that. I love.

I love. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just, you know what I mean? Yeah. So I knew from a young age that I was. I just thought that women were these, these things, these beings that needed to be celebrated.

And I wanted to figure out a way that I could be a part of that. Did you ever think of other avenues like hair or cosmetology? Yeah, yeah, makeup. Like, you know, my mother used to let me play with, my mother used to let me do a lot of things, which I'm thankful for her. Yeah. Like, she would let me play what, like, play and put makeup on her and everything. But that just, that never really hit for me. Yeah.

You know? I wish I did, though, because I could have been like Pat McGrath, I think. Because you imagine I've been so successful as a makeup artist Well, you're so successful as a stylist Yeah

What are you a grass Is greener type of guy Like do you Yeah Like do you think Because you're saying I could have been like that Yeah

But like people want to be like you Yeah No no no I'm very I think my life I think I've been living The life that I'm supposed to live Yeah

Yeah Yeah I'm very happy Yeah I was just saying I was just thought about it Because I've never told anybody that story before So I'm like shit Maybe I could have been...

Yeah. Maybe it could have been like La Roach cosmetics. Still could be. Sounds good. Right? Still could be. Yeah, for sure. So you're saying your mom was supportive from the get, like when you showed interest in these things? Yeah, I think my mom let me do a lot of stuff, including play with Barbies because she really just wanted me to babysit my little sisters.

How many sisters do you have? Two. I have two younger sisters. And you're the oldest? I'm the oldest of five. Uh-huh. So two younger sisters, two younger brothers. And, you know, me playing with Barbies, with my sisters, kept them occupied.

So I think she kind of just, like, took advantage of me in that space, but she still let me do it, right? Yeah. So, and I always say that Barbie was my first client. So did you love the movie Barbie and, like, everything? I didn't see the movie. Can you believe that? Yeah, I can't believe that. But, like, she was your favorite thing.

She was my favorite thing. Maybe you didn't want to see it so wouldn't ruin her for you. This is true. Oh, it is true? Yeah, I just didn't want to ruin my, you know, who I think Barbie is. Really? Kind of love that. Okay, so your mom was always supportive.

Then I saw that you owned a used clothing shop. Yeah. How did that happen? Just like obsession with thrift stores. Like, everything I'm wearing now is thrifted. Stop. Yeah. You have to do videos.

Are you posting less? No, I'm really good at that. I'm going to get better at that. But yeah, everything I have on is used. That you find. Yeah, I found it myself. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

What are some good thrift stores? Well, it's always like, I don't know strip stores in New York, but in Chicago, when I was thrifted, it was like Salvation Army was one. It was like, you know. Wait, that's so cool. And you would go to the neighborhoods where people weren't looking for, like, you'll go to the neighborhoods where people were looking because they really needed a winter coat, right? Not, they wasn't looking for a vintage East St. Loron.

Right. You know what I mean? But you can find that? Like you. Of course. Wow. Yeah. And then, so you said before that the tournament.

point is when Kanye visited. Yeah. In 2009, like randomly because he's from Chicago. Yeah. And one of my best friends was really close friends with him. And so he popped in to say hello. And then it became like a news story. And so I started to get all these calls from stylists.

I'm like, okay, so this is a viable job, right? Like people are really making money all around the world doing this. And like, so I'm like, so I want to do it too. And I just start calling myself that. So then how did you get going? Like, how did you get your first client? Who was your first client? My first client was an R&B single named K. Michelle.

She was signed to Atlantic Records at the time. Yeah. And they hired me to do her album rollout. So I did her album cover and like music videos. And I had no idea what I was doing. Wait, did you study at any point or nothing? No. But how do you even to the store?

How do you even open a shop? Get the used clothes. Like how old were you when you did that? I was young, but I was just a hustler. And I was a bartender. That was my main source of income. So I would take my bartender money, spend it in a thrift store,

alterations, sell it out the trunk of my car. And when that became a decent business, then we opened up a small shop. Yeah. And then, you know, one thing that last for another. Oh, my God. Yeah. So then from that first client, it kind of, it's worded him out. So I met, I was doing her then I met Zendaya. And so then my focus, then I moved to L.A. to kind of like B was Zendaya full time. How did you meet her? I met her through a family friend, just happened to be a client of Deliciously Vintage. And this was before Euphoria. No, this is her first season of Shake It Up on a Disney channel.

Wow. Yeah, she was a baby. So you're with her since then. So you really saw her evolve. No, we evolved together. Evolved together. We grew up together 13 years. And then I saw that you had mentioned before

that you, if there were designers that didn't want to work with her from the beginning, you're not giving them another chance. You still stand by that. No, I mean, I don't really I mean, that, that podcast, that part blew up. But that's something I had said years ago. And she just asked that question.

And that is the way I felt years ago. But now, you know, it is what it is, you know. Yeah. No, I can feel that. I think it's a debate, right? Because sometimes you want the opportunity. But at the same time, like, you want to stand on your moral ground. The thing about it is that there's a lot of beautiful clothes in the world.

And I learned that early in my career. Yeah. And I would rather give an emergent designer, someone who's just started. and that makes beautiful things, the opportunity, whether they're running and chasing behind some big brand just because other people think it's cool. Right. I love that. We'll be right back after the break.

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And we're back. An interesting thing about you is that you suggested, tell me if this is completely wrong, that you identify as aromantic. Yes. Does that still, is that still how you feel? Yes. Okay, very interesting because I haven't heard about this, but you said it's something where you don't really feel the desire to have a romantic love.

No. I just really asked. No, as a young boy, I always felt like, you know how you grow up, you picture yourself your wedding day and this person that you're going to spend the rest of your life would and like you want to wake up with and talk to all day, FaceTime and all that. I just never ever had a craving for that. Still to this day, and I always say, like, if the universe puts that in my life, I'm fine with it. I'm open to it, but it's not something that I'm praying for at night.

That you ever were? Never. Wow. I've never been in a serious relationship, ever. Ever. Never. But does that mean that you can't be in unsurious relationships? Like, does that mean you're not interested in those either?

I mean, I'm interested in, you know, having fun sometimes, yeah. But I'm not, like, I can have fun and then never talk. you again. Wow. Yeah. But like in friendships, you're different. Yeah, for sure. So there's like romance is one. Yeah. I feel like I've been, I was put on this earth to be loved in a certain type of way. Like, I've been doing all these things from my book and meeting all these people. And when they tell me how much that I mean to them and how they love me in that way, that gives me a sense of purpose. And I love being loved that way. And writing my book and starting a school of style is my way of giving people and showing people my love.

and with opportunities and helping people. Let's talk about your book. Sure. How to Build a Fashion icon. Yes. So tell me, how do we build a fashion icon? So the title of the book is very deceptive because it's not about fashion at all. It's about confidence and it's about building, building yourself into becoming an icon of whatever you do.

You know, like making yourself an icon in your podcast. Right. Right. You know what I mean? It's about the confidence to be able to do whatever you want to do when you want to do. to do it. Yeah. And there are ways to use fashion to help build that confidence or maintain it, but the book is not about fashion. Like, there's no fashion tips in the book. So if people are looking for that, you're going to be disappointed. Well, I read that there are, because I didn't get

the book. I don't know who we're blaming, but Amy, no, I'm just kidding. I didn't get the book, so I didn't get to read it, but I read that it is about tips and tricks and memorable styling moments. Is that not in there? That's not true. True. There is anecdotes about clients. I write about clients throughout my career, but it's also about their confidence and how, you know, I was able to help them build confidence, whether it's in just situational or in life period, right? And so that's what it's about. But there's no like, oh, you shouldn't wear that color because it's not good for your skin so. It's not that. It's not that. Were you always confident? Yes. You were. So. Very engaged. Wow. Do you think it's from your mom? mom like how no i think it's because i grew up in a tough neighborhood and my last name is roach that is that is a last name right you know what i mean so it's like i had to have some tough

skin yeah yeah so you kind of built your own confidence yeah so you know how to teach other people to kind of help yeah and it's not it's not like you sit someone and down and be like oh let me teach you how to be confident it's it's arming them with different tools and and tricks to to help them find it on their own give me give me a good one So one of my favorites is to find your powerpiece, and that's a piece of clothing that you already own, that you know exactly how it makes you feel, right? And you know how it makes you look. You know, you maybe got a lot of compliments last time you wore it or the time before you that you wore it. And if you wake up and you're not feeling confident, right?

You put that on, and what it does, it has the power is to transform your mood and make you feel better because you already know how you look. And a lot of times if we don't go out the house feeling confident then your head is going to be in your closet all day. Right. You know what I mean?

And also encourage people to re-wear their clothes. I think it's stupid that we think that we can't repeat stuff anymore. Do you repeat stuff? Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.

Because you are right. There's those comfort clothes that you know if you put them on you're going to feel good. So you're saying if you want to like feel confident, start there. Right. But also you are very

into like experimenting with different. Yeah, that's in the book, too. It's like, go into a department store, try on a bunch of things that you don't think you are like because what happens is just like our palette for food matures, our palette for fashion and style matures. So every now and again, you have to test your palette out. Yeah.

I love that this is like part self-help, part manifesto, part, it's like a bunch of different things in this book. And it's out already, right? Yes. How to build a fashion icon. You guys should check it out. you even like personal anecdotes too, right? A lot of personal anecdotes.

So a lot of, there's a lot of part of me how I grew up and, you know, a lot of things like that in a book. But at the end of every chapter, there are assignments and kind of like action items for you to kind of like use these things to build confidence. Oh, that's amazing. We need that in today's day and age with social media and everyone comparing themselves to each other. I have to ask you this question that I've had for a long time. So red carpets became really different over the past few years, I would say. Over the past like 20 years. But today there's this thing of dressing like on theme with the movie, which I, what do you think about it?

I mean, you did it though for Dune. I did it for my whole entire career. Oh, now I see. I see why the high is why the high is went like that. No, I've always done it. Like we've always done it. Now it has a name. Now it's called method dressing.

Oh. Yeah. But it's something that we've been practicing. So you've always done it and now it kind of caught wind. Yes. So you're into it. Yeah. I didn't create it.

Yes, you did. I didn't create it. Okay. But I did make it trendy, I would say. When is the first time you remember doing it? I mean, Zendaya at greatest showmen, Zendaya for all the Spider-Man. Oh, yeah, that's true. Right.

For all the spider. That is true. Yeah, we've always done it. Okay, guys, I'm going to translate. law invented it and now everybody that's doing it is basically copying i mean i said that and i am just to be clear yeah the mecala how far in advance you start working on on something well it depends on when you get an invite so you know if you have a designer that wants to work in one of your clients you start pretty early yeah but sometimes you know people get invites last minute so it just

depends yeah do you like going oh yeah i do you do it doesn't trust you out i know a lot of people it's like their most stressed time of the year. It is stressed. It's a, that walk up those stairs is a lot. It's a lot of cameras. Yeah. No, but I just think all that's, I like the chaos of it.

I think it's fun. Yeah? Yeah. The confidence speaking. That's what it is. I have another question. A lot of stylists are in the backstage, right? We don't see them.

We may know their names. With you, you are pretty front-facing. Is that a decision you made? Is that a choice that did you want that? Did that kind of happen? Well, it just starts to kind of, happened because I've also done a bunch of reality television. So I did two seasons of America's

Next Top Model. I was on a show called Legendary for three seasons. And then I just did OMG fashion with Julia Fox for a season. And so that was part of it. But I also, I also always had an exit plan. Like I know I didn't want to be a stylist for the rest of my life. And I think when you become public facing, you just get more opportunities to do other things. And so I've always kind of, I always had that in the back of my mind. And then with Zendaya, she always, like, if I'm dressing her for a carpet, she always, like, comes like a picture with me. And so that started

to happen. And you're her date for, like, a lot of this stuff. Yeah. Me and her assistant, Darnell. That's, you and her what? Assistant Darnell. It's like a Thruple. Oh, but that's smart because you're right if you want a backup plan. So this was all

premeditated. Like, this is in your mind. It didn't just like happen. We're like, oh, I'm glad that I was, you know, people know me. So, right. But it was kind of like in the back of your mind. Yeah, I started doing reality TV in 2017. Yeah. So it's just, you know, it's, and, and me, I don't think also me, my fame or whatever,

it's also a product of the work. Like, people just really enjoy the work and, you know, are entertained by the work. That's why everyone was so sad when you posted that post. Yeah. And it's just curious. Everybody just kind of like, wanted to know who was the person behind the thing. Yeah. Okay.

So I want to do some quick cues. Some fashion cues. One trend, you're ready for it to be over? One trend I'm ready for it to be over. I don't know. Are you really anti-skinny jeans like Gen Z's? I'm not anti-anything. I think people should wear whatever they want to wear.

Whatever makes you feel good and happy and beautiful. Don't look me up and down law. Okay. I don't know what I put on today. You do. You chose that. Oh. I saw that you were like, I don't know what I'm anti. No, there's no shame.

Okay. No, you chose that. You chose your outfit for a reason. I mean, I think you look beautiful. Thank you, law. He did say that before. I don't know if you caught it. Before you start filming, I told you.

He did. Yeah. He did. Okay. One essential that everyone should have in their closet. A beautiful coat. A beautiful dress coat. I cannot stand to see women dressed up with like a Parker or a puffer coat.

But what do we do if it's cold? Crazy. No puffer? They make long, nice trench coats. Wall is really warm. Yeah. Vintage fur. You're right.

Because a trench, even if you're wearing like sweatpants. Yeah. Can make it look sexy. Yeah. Okay. I hear you. Favorite color of the season? I love neutrals. I love grays, beige. Most creative fashion house of the season. Scaparrelli. Is there anybody that would make you come out of retirement aside from Zendaya and Celine Dion? Kamala Harris.

Manifest, manifest. Did you ever have a red carpet mistake, like something that went wrong? Oh, yeah. Myself. Somebody should Google me at the CFDA Awards. Last year. Last year. Last year. Lash, I look crazy. What? You regret it? No, I don't regret it. It was fun. It was, but it was a, it was a choice. It was a choice. Okay, Google right away. What was the first designer you ever bought? Is it sell-in-law. What's your biggest pet peeve with a client? Like, the thing that, like, annoys you the most about style.

Their management. Okay. We know. Law, thank you so much for coming on. Everybody, go get a copy of Law's book. It's out now. Yes. And thank you so much for coming. Thank you for having me. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Not Skinny but Not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny but Not Fat.

Subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcasts and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocharoo. Thank you guys so much for listening and I'll see you next Tuesday. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.