Not Skinny But Not Fat - Lena Dunham: The Voice of Our Generation

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

Dream guest alert: Lena Dunham is on the pod!I’ve looked up to her forever, her writing, her voice, Girls… all of it. We talk about why she really left NYC, falling in love in London, body image, mental health, and her new Netflix show Too Much.We also talk about her comeback and the fact that we had the same high school crush. A full-circle moment for me!!!This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.House Marg Summer is here. Time to stock up! Go to www.astraltequila.com to find Astral near you - and don’t forget the limes! Please Enjoy Responsibly. ASTRAL Tequila. 40% Alcohol per Volume. Diageo, New York, NY.Give your summer closet an upgrade—with Quince. Go to Quince.com/notskinny for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty-five -day returns.Find Simply Pop and any of its five juicy flavors by visiting us online at cokeurl.com/simplyPOP.Catch new episodes of Bachelor in Paradise Mondays at 8/7 central on ABC, and stream next day on Hulu!Visit CleanSimpleEats.com and use code NOTSKINNY20 at checkout for 20% off your FIRST order.Open your account in 2 minutes at chime.com/NOTSKINNY. Chime. Feels like progress.When it comes to pregnancy and postpartum support, you want products backed by research and transparency. Mom-founded Ritual puts in the work and shows you the proof. Get 25% off your first month at ritual.com/NOTSKINNY.Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Okay, you guys, it is finally summer outside, finally summer. We're talking pool weather, we're talking beach weather, we're talking linen weather, and of course, we're talking margarita weather. I am such a margarita girly, especially in the summer, because it just gives that kind of a vibe. Like at a rooftop pool with like a margarita, it's chilled, it's delicious, it's crisp, it's refreshing, and the tequila I love to use for my margaritas is a straw. right here. Okay. This tequila is so good. It is so smooth. This is obviously the Blanco, and it's made with 100% agave, which we love. It's just delicious. I love it so much. And I can tell you right now, my favorite recipe for my Amanda house margarita using a straw is you use a shot of a straw, and then you use some lime juice, some soda water, or just right?

regular water, a little bit of maple syrup. And sometimes I like to add in like a jalapeno. Okay. That's all you need. And it is just the best, the best, uh, margarita recipe. But you got to use a straw for that. A stroll tequila is the official house tequila of dear media. You could feel good about ordering a straw at a bar or a restaurant or getting it for your home and making a house mark like me because it is affordable and it's great. great tasting and it mixes beautifully into any cocktail, especially a margarita. So stock up this summer on a stroll. It's my go-to for get-together. So whether you're hosting or just having a drink with your husband or with a couple of friends, choose Estrelle tequila. How's Marg? Summer is here.

It's time to stock up you guys. Go to www.a-W-W-A-T-R-A-L-T-E-Q-U-I-L-L-E-E-E-K-E-E-E-E-E-L-E-E-L. Play.com to find a shawl near you and don't forget the limes. Okay. Dakota Johnson would never forget those limes. If you know, you know, please enjoy responsibly. A shrill tequila, 40% alcohol per volume. Diageo, New York, New York. The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to the not skinny but not fat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch. And I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars, my very own podcast, where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends. your living room.

You're sorry, guys, what's up? If you haven't seen me or heard from me, or you're like, where did Amanda go? She's been so quiet. She's been so mysterious. She's been trying to catch up on Love Island. Okay. Okay. I know.

I also lost my voice. I don't know who I am anymore. actually don't know who I am anymore. I was going to say who I am, what day it is, what time it is. It's July. But I'm going to give you this tip because I know you hear me saying this a lot. I, somebody told me this and then I heard more about it. And I feel like I agree with this take. I always talk about how time flies. How are we, you know, how has it been a week? How are we in July? How is, you know, time flunk, you know, everything flies by. I was like, how do, how do, how do, how do, how does it? How do, how do, how does it. does that stop? Like, how do you help yourself and your brain and everything just not feel like time is flying? And one of the tips that I got, and I feel like this is important for me, maybe you feel the same way, is stop saying the time flies. I feel like that must be so true. I feel like I'm going to start doing that because somewhere I read or one of you told me, I can't remember, like, if you stop saying like, time flies, how was it Friday already? Like,

How is it another way? If you stop doing that, like, it can only help you. Because if you keep doing that and that's, I mean, with everything, it's like we talk about manifesting, we talk about just putting stuff out there so it can happen. And so what am I putting out there? The time fucking flies and everything is fleeting and, you know, the moments are just there and gone. No, I don't want to put that out there. I'm going to stop doing that.

I'm going to stop doing that. And I hope that this helps you as well because I can't stop. But I won't stop saying that Love Island took. over my life. I don't know how you guys are doing it. I like, it is so much TV. And like, I love TV. And I am usually so good. Like, I know some of you will be like, I'll be delayed a little bit. But this is like, I am trying to catch up so bad. And then there's another one. And then there's another one. Then you guys are like, just wait, you haven't seen this episode. And you know what the biggest hutzpah of you people? What about Love Island UK? Catch up on Love

Island, UK, too. Are you watching that too? Excuse me. Like, are you okay? You really think that I can be watching Love Island USA and UK? No, no, no, no, no. But anyway, it's one of those, like, when I explain to anybody that's not in this world, doesn't get it.

I know. There are people like that. I'm like, no, no. You need to know what's good. Like, you can't be walking this earth and not know about a Maya papaya. Like, you can't be, you know. you just can't you can't this is like part of our freaking culture i'm not about to not be part of our culture anyway you guys this episode today's episode is super duper duper important to me a lot of you

asked me amanda remember that day that you said that you have your dream guests on today your wish list guests on today who is it when is it coming it's coming it's here now and I have to tell you, like, the day that I interviewed this person, Regina, who works with me, will tell you, she was like, I've never seen you this way. Looking at you looking at her was like, you're watching somebody meeting, like, their idol. And it was just such a special day for me because they say don't meet your idols. And they're wrong. They're wrong. They're wrong.

Lena Denham. Since I started this podcast, she's been on my wish. list. Since I watched girls, she literally became the voice in my head. If I could write, I'd want to write like her. I wish I had her words. I wish

I could see the world through her eyes, which I sometimes feel like I do. I love reading, watching, and listening to everything she has to say. Her point of view has always inspired me her vulnerability, putting herself out there,

saying everything that we are thinking in a way. Her coming on this podcast is literally a dream come true. You guys, I have a wish list. It's on my phone and it says literally like maybe 15 names. It's like Britney Spears, Lena Dunham, not joking. And I can't believe. Like I don't want to cross her off the list.

I want to leave her there. Maybe put like a little green checkmark because it was a dream come true. And little did I know we would connect the way that we did. This is not only a dream guest and a wishless guest. It's also probably my top episode ever, ever. Lena, seriously, I fucking love her brain. I love her brilliance. She has a new show out on Netflix.

In two days, it's called Too Much. It's with Meg Stalter and Will Sharp. You know him and you love him from White Lotus. This is such a Lena show. Jessica, who basically is Lena, is a workaholic. She's reeling from a broken relationship. She takes a job in London

and she meets Felix, played by Will. And they're red flags, but they're, you know, they have this unusual connection that's impossible to ignore. This is Lena, again, on our screens, which I know I've been waiting for. I've been Jonesing for.

And I'm so happy to say that she's working on. a bunch of new projects. So she's going to be in our lives in the near future. And we miss her so much. I don't know how to explain what girls has meant to me, what it's done for me, how I literally clips will come up on my Instagram or TikTok from the show.

And I get chills. Like, I get chills. And the thing is with Lena, it's like, I just admire her. I admire this woman. I think she's so smart. And I was so nervous to meet her. because I was like, how do I know that this person that I look up to and is going to be anything like I think?

I also haven't seen her talk about anything in years. I haven't seen her in the press. Like, maybe she's not the same bitch that I like envision that she is. And guess what? She is the same bitch. And she's my kind of bitch. And I can't wait for you to hear it because it's just a love fest and I love her. And I'm just so happy about this episode.

I'm so happy that it's finally out and I can share it with you. So enjoy. Enjoy my convo with the one and only Lena Denham. If I thought of your New York piece, we'll talk about it. Oh my God. I, I, say I regret it. Telling him about that I regret what? What you said in the New Yorker about our city?

No. I regret nothing. Okay. But I wish I regret it. I wish it's because it's my city too. If it wasn't my city, too, I would say none of that. Yeah. Because I feel you could only talk negatively about your local.

said so perfect in every way. But that being said today, he was like, how are you doing? I was like, can you call me between things? And I was like, no, because right now, like, four things happened at once in the way that it can only happen in New York. Like, someone almost bumped the car, like a man is standing in traffic screaming. Like, someone, like my friend sent me kind of a mean text. And then my mom said, can you talk in all caps?

And then one other thing happened. And I was like, and I'm just like, that feeling when you're in the back of a car in New York and you're like, I'm not crying, but I could cry. And I just can't open my mouth right now. And then I thought, I'm going to Amanda. It's going to be amazing. No, I can't even know my show or me. You don't understand. Yes, I do. I do. I was so excited because this morning I was like, my father was like, do you want to hang out this afternoon? I was like, I'm doing a podcast. And he was like, what's it called? Not skinny, but not that. And then he looked at me and he goes, that's a good one for you. No. I cannot. He probably thinks we're talking about, like, diet culture. Oh, my God. I love your fabletics, Chloe. No, is that so funny that I have the Chloe one? Did she give it to you? Well, yeah, she did. That is, by the way, Bass Carnage. I do wear good American jeans. And I tried her. What, this is all good American. It's really nice. Her stuff is beautiful. It's good. It's really good. That's what the thing. People don't give on credit. And it looks great. It's just like an earring. Are the pants her too? No, it's favorite daughter. Do you like them? great. I didn't, I never tried a favorite daughter of pant, but they're great.

I love you. And Amanda, we trust. I don't know what to do with this. I'm leaving. I'm so excited. When I tell you that when I started this podcast, I've always had a wish list and unfeasible, like, craziest dream swearing my life could cry. Crazy as dream who I would want on my podcast. And you're on it, babe. That's so beautiful and wild. And I feel like you've, you've already, dreamed all your dreams. You've got all the people. Everyone's come on your podcast. But think about how long

like if first of all, don't ever look at our DMs, promise me. Okay. Promise right now. You mean the DMs? Like don't scroll up because you're just going to see like me probably harassing you since girls came out. I would love to look at our DMs.

We could do that. I'd love to look at our DMs. I'm like, don't look. Okay, we could look together when you first hit DMs because it's been so long since I've gotten on Instagram myself, because my friend does it for my friend, does it for me. Professional. I don't force her to do it as a friend. She is paid, but she also is my friend. But it's a professional and friendly relationship that when you're like, don't look

at our DMs. I was like, are we going to have our own DM account and we're going to get DMs together about this podcast and they're going to be mean? Like, it went to so many levels. You were already in our shared account. I was already in our shared account in which we were getting unkind DMs. And I was like, why to us? We're beautiful, nice girls.

Why would anyone want to write to us that way? Why would anyone want to treat us that way? You've been just since I was introduced to you, was just obsessed. I love your voice. I love your thoughts. I obviously loved and loved girls. It still speaks to me to this day. Like, I think about the quotes every day.

It means so much. It was just genius. And then I read your piece in the New Yorker. Thank you. whole thing. Sorry not to show off that I can read. You are. And I don't read. You're a good reader. Are you not a big reader? No. Do you hate me now? No, of course not. I think it's great. I mean, my husband's read eight books, tops. And that's whole like across a lifetime. Yeah, I'm like Twilight is my last one. Across a lifetime. Twilight's a big chunky series. Thank you.

Like, I truly love to read, but I don't have any value. It's just a thing I really love to do. It's not like I think, I not think, it's not like I think, oh, if you don't read, then you're a big dummy. Like, there are certain people who, people who are there dumb people who read? 1,000%. Okay. Some of the dumbest people read. Stop! Of course. Oh, I didn't know. I thought that everyone that reads is smart.

That's, that's, I don't think anything anyone says is crazy, except what you just said. Okay, but circling that. Everybody reads is smart. I thought it makes you smarter. Reading, reading. J.D. Vantz sitting there. Oh. Okay. Point made. You know? So don't read yet. Lena Dunham writes a piece for the New Yorker after you haven't written something in a bit, right? I haven't written something. I hadn't written something for New Yorker a bit. So it was fun to be back in that space. And it was so good. Thank you. And it was so your voice that I love.

Thank you. And could like just notate it like so many like I got chills at the line. The end. The end I got. chills, baby. You know what I'm talking about? Thank you. First of all, no one can talk shit about my mother but me. Which is true. Like, wouldn't he be so angry if someone else says something negative? What do you mean? Like your husband or your, you know what I mean? Could not dare say like, your mom didn't come over. Sorry, what? If my husband even tries to tell me something about who my mother, like, I'll start the conversation. If he wants to pick it up. What do you want him to do then? Oh my God. If I'm saying something negative about my mom, it's like he can kind of go like, he can nod seriously, and he can also comment on like, that must be painful for you.

But he cannot make a comment about, he cannot pick up what I'm putting down and start talking about who she is as a person. That would be, I once had a friend and my mom will know what I'm talking about because she was involved with this. I had a friend who kind of like went up against my mom a little bit. And you know no one. No one wins in that fight. No, I can't believe that.

I know. We were like 18, but still, it was like, it was like my friend got fresh with my mom, and it's still notorious in our household. The mama always wins. And also, I think it's like, even if my mom can be annoying now, like, and with old age, there are little traits that were cute ones or more annoying now. And what mother cannot? Right.

But also, I'm like, you, she raised me. Do I am today? You know, like, there's still, even if they can annoy you now, even more than in your entire life, you still look back, you know what a big deal it is to raise kids and you like, you don't get it. She gave me life. That's how I also feel about my sibling. Like, I feel that my sibling,

I'm like, do you know what a miracle it is? Like, the wars we've survived together. The things that we've seen together. Like the, there is nothing that my sibling could do. Like, you could come to me and just like lay out a series of the most egregious crimes throughout America.

And I would just have to sit and be like, yeah, that's my sibling. I don't know what to tell you. But they live far from you. My brother now lives in Los Angeles, but I'm really excited because I'm going to be in New York this summer. I'm having, just as I dropped a piece about how I left to New York. Oh, you're doing the play. I'm doing, well, Morgan a play, and I'm shooting a movie this summer.

And so I'm directing a movie starring Miss Natalie Portman. Oh, right. Starring Siasat Long Island's own Natalie Portman. Lena, first of all, can we be friends when you're in the city in the summer? I'd love to be. Like literally, I'd love nothing more. I want to be in my, like, adult female friends who wear a great top matching top with undertop like that era. Like the matching.

Which you didn't used to be cool, but it's back. Like, you have to match it. I want to be in my era where I have like an adult where I'm like, oh, yeah, I'm meeting my friend. Her undertop matches her overtop. And she has a, like, kind of chunky earring. And her hair always spells amazing. You know, that's. So that's what's going to happen this summer.

Yeah. I spelled her hair. It was good for you? Yeah, it was great. Okay, we need to talk about the black hair. The decision, the consistency, and the commitment. Thank you for noticing because it's been happening for a year. Yeah, because you have to, it's a commitment.

And it involves upkeep. And it involves, and it has involved a commitment to my hair and also a commitment to ruining my bathroom once every month. Why you do it yourself? Because I do it myself. Why? I don't know what came. I am. Wait, first of all, it's also the longest, has it ever been this.

long in your life? No. It's the best thing that's ever happened to me. Because also when people, my fellow women who fined through menopause was because I went through early menopause, my other menopausees, whatever we're supposed to tell ourselves, will know that sometimes you have differences. Your hair falls out. Things happen with hormone changes. So my hair really thinned. And then when it came back, it rocketed back. Stop. You got like a new head of hair? I got a new head of hair. And it was like super hair. Like, Suddenly I felt like I had a rope coming out of my head. That's literally insane.

It was like I had a rope coming out of my head. And so that was just a new era. In terms of doing the dye myself, I have like this, the instinct to save money at the wrong times. Yes. And I think it's like a coming from like a post-war Jewish family. It's like things where you're like,

why am I choosing? Why would I pay money for this? I could buy it at Dwayne Reed. Yeah, when I can buy this toxic dye at Dwayne Reed and slap it on my head with a toothbrush. Meanwhile, you're, like, making movies with Natalie Portman, and you're, like, have a first look deal with Netflix, but you're dyeing it at home in your kitchen.

That will, I'll never not think that everything's going to run out and I need to dye my hair at home in my kitchen. But then it's like, I'll, but then it's like, why am I ordering postmates? And if I'm so intent on-food doesn't count. Okay, because if I'm so intent on saving money, why am I not cooking for myself? Mm-hmm. Food doesn't count, though.

I will, okay, so I, I just got a Russian manicure for the first time. Can you tell me what that is? Yes, I will. Because I've been out of the country. Because you've been out of the country. I don't really know. I wonder what they call it there.

So there's a regular manicure, which you grew up in New York. You know you could just walk in, get it. Of course. So then everyone's like, you have to try a Russian manicure. So I went. And can you tell, like, that it's a different kind of manicure? Well, I have to say I did look and go, like, that's, those are some of the most. Like, it looks like they put, like, bonbon candies on each of your fingers.

It's literally insane. It looks like they, you know, when like a grandma has like a thing of sweeties in her, on her table? It looks like they put a single sucking candy on each of your fingers. Yes, it's gorgeous. They're perfect. So, I mean, tell you how much does it cost? How much does it cost, do you think? Do you remember how much was a manicure when you were growing up?

When I was in high school, it was $12. I think that manicure cost $150. Correct. Really? Correct. Correct. Do you feel like you won a prize? Correct.

Amundo. Really? Yeah. And me. Which is not as, and how long does it last? So I think she was like, should I, you know, at the end they try to get you. And she was like, so should I schedule for three weeks? I'm like, no, bitch, I'm going to see how long this lasts.

Yeah, you're like, don't try to. You think I'm prescheduling? So what is different about it? So I'll tell you that I posted it, Havi, and then people were like, you'll never go back. And I'm like, it was $150. And in my mind, I'm so frugal about it. Yeah. So I get it.

And then I'm thinking like, what will I order for dinner, nobu for myself? you know? And then like, don't even look at how much it costs. So there's something about food versus any other and especially self-care where you're like, why do I need a massage, you know? Totally. And my first instinct is always to offer myself the worst version of whatever's available. The version, the most cut rate version of whatever's available. Although I did, I don't dye my hair with like the lowest level. Like I dye my hair with the one that's from, that's called No Bleach, London, which is like owned by a model. It's supposed to have a better environmental imprint.

I'm not going like full. I don't know what we were using. You're not using peroxide. I don't know what we were using in high school. I mean, I was using this thing called manic panic, which was actually a great dye. I also did it myself in high school. Oh my God.

I used pink manic panic panic dye and it was actually great. It was like temporary. And I bought it at Ricky's Beauty's, Brickie's Beauty. I grew up in the city too. What street did you grow up on? No, I grew up in Riverdale, you know, in the Bronx. Of course. I love Riverdale. I love saying in the Bronx so they think it's like J-Lo. Because only people from New York know Riverdale, you know? Riverdale's beautiful. Yeah, it's nice.

But I went to high school at Beacon. Do you know it? Of course I do. All the like liberal kids with the protesting. Yes. It was a lot of liberal kids and a lot of protesting and a lot of protesting. I know. I was like, sorry, I can't make this one. It wasn't the same as Dwight, which they called dumb white idiots getting high together. Do you remember that? Yes. Kids would be like, I go to Calhoun. You'd like, okay, I go to Beacon. Cool. I go to Dwight. Yeah, we were cool. Dumb white idiots getting high together. I know, but I was always jealous of the LaGuardia kids. Because I was like, I should be there.

They're not protesting. They're, like, acting. Well, the LaGuardia kids were always, like, the most adult, the most serious, the most put together. Yeah. It's where the Nikki Minaj's and the Timothy Chalames of the world were doing their thing. Where? Lordus Leone went to LaGuardia. Oh, Lordis Leone.

Yes. We'll be right back after the break. Happy July 4th weekend that just passed. I hope you had something nice to wear. Maybe you didn't. And if you didn't, that means you haven't been checking out Quince, all right? Because I told you a million times, if you need a refresh to your wardrobe, you go to Quince, okay? Because their clothes are just timelets.

They're luxurious. They're elevated. And their quality. Way beyond what you would expect for the price. We're talking about European linens. We're talking about washable silk dresses and skirts, soft cotton sweaters, versatile, warm weather pieces that you're going to reach for again and again. Everything with Quince is half the cost of similar brands.

What they do is they work directly with top artisans and they cut out the middleman and Quince gives you the luxury without the markup. They only work with factories that use safe, ethical, and responsible, manufacturing practices, and premium fabrics and finishes. I love everything that I have from Quince, from the bed that I have to the luggage, to the linen, to the cashmere sweaters. So give your summer closet an upgrade with Quince. Go to quince.com slash not skinny for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Quince, Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash not skinny to get free shipping and 365-day returns. Again, that's quince.com slash not skinny.

exciting day, everybody. Simply has launched a new prebiotic soda. You guys know that I love sodas and I love ones that come with a little something extra. It's not just good, but there's a prebiotic in it, right? So Simply Pop is the new juicy soda. There are five flavors, pineapple mango, yum, yum, yum, lime, lime, lime, and fruit punch. This is made with real fruit juice. Simply Pop supports gut health, important, and has six grams of prebiotic fiber, no added sugar, and is sweetened with juices monk fruit extract. This supports immune health with zinc plus vitamin C. Amazing. Simply Pop is flavor that pops. See what all the fizz is about. Simply pop is the new juicy soda that happens when you combine the delicious real fruit flavors of Simply

with six grams of prebiotic fiber to support gut health. Go to Coke URL.com slash Simplypop to find out where you can try Simply Pop. Find Simply Pop and any of its five juicy flavors by visiting them online at CokeURL.com slash simply pop. That's Coke, C-O-K-E-U-R-L.com slash simply S-S-S-E-S-E-E-R-L dot com slash simply S-S-E. I am PLY, P-O-P. I told you guys this already, and I'm so excited because the day has come. For us, Bachelor Nation fans, we've been anxiously awaiting the highly anticipated

season 10 of Bachelor in Paradise. And the beach is finally back open, you guys. Jesse Palmer will be returning as your beloved host, and everyone's favorite bartender, Wells Adams is back to mix up some cocktails. and dole out dating advice. Also joining this season is former bachelorette Hannah Brown. She'll be making her debut as the head of Paradise Relations, where she'll help plan special experiences for those romantic hopefuls on the beach.

What's actually insane this summer, guys, is they're shaking stuff up, okay? The young singles are going to be joined by Golden Bachelor and Bachelorette alumni that will be crashing the beach. That's right. Both bold and gold singles will shoot their shot at love this season. They're going to be mixing and matching, and it's going to be absolutely insane. This is all taking place in a new tropical oasis in Costa Rica. With new compatibility challenges along the way that are certain to test even the strongest of connections,

this season proves that only those willing to pay the price will find true love in paradise. Catch new episodes of Bachelor in Paradise Mondays at 8th Central on ABC and stream the next day on Hulu. Hi, y'all. I'm Kinsey, and I'm the host of Housecast Podcast. I'm a Gen Z, wannabe Martha Stewart, meets Dolly Parton, trying to live in a Nancy at Myers movie. We talk all about life relationships and navigating your 20s.

I'd like to say I'm multifaceted. I'm either waking up at 4 a.m. in the sauna, tending to my garden, or closing out the bars until 2 a.m., you just never know what you're going to get. It's either me at home in my house in Texas that I spend way too much time in or in the studio

with some pretty cool guest. You can follow us at The House Guise Pod and listen or watch all new episodes every Thursday, wherever you get your podcast or on YouTube. And we're back. I went to a high school in Brooklyn called CNAs, which was a liberal,

no grades, call your teachers by their first name. So was Beacon. You could have gone to Beacon fully. I think it was actually very similar. And I met a guy, my freshman year of college, and he had gone to Beacon. I had gone to St. Anne's. And he was my like true, like my freshman year of college unrequited love. And when we met, I felt like we had had like very similar high school experiences.

And my mind, I'm like, who is it? Like, for thinking I know it. Shut the fuck up. I had the biggest fucking crush on him. Are you fucking kidding me? Oh, we had like a crazy thing. It went on for years. No, he's straight, baby.

I always wish he was gay and that's why he didn't like me. No, no, this is the craziest fucking thing, you guys. It wasn't fully unreplicated. They're not getting it. It went on for years. This is crazy. It went on for years. Lena, that is crazy.

What year did you graduate high school? No, he was a year above me. Yeah, so he's my year. Because I was 2006. He was 2000. So he and I had a shared 18th birthday party. he was the dream he was a beetle he was a beetle most beautiful boy in the world i saw him and i thought my life is over i'll give my life to you no i am the boy that i was in love with freshman year of

college you know who you are you know who you are let's call you pancakes for a nickname because that was your nickname i can i cannot believe what's happening no right now most beautiful boy in the world beetle let me tell you this story let me set a paint a picture for you random okay i'm so happy that you got up and hit me with that because it was, no, it was true. It was what needed to happen. Wade, was it the most, like, when I asked you who it was, I thought we were going to say someone that I don't know. Oh, of course it was something that you know.

You said somebody that was my crush. Of course, because, of course, we have similar tastes because, of course. So one day, I was standing outside my school, St. Anne's, in like 11th grade. And I'm walking out, and I just see this boy. And he doesn't go to my school because, you know, I'm sure Beacon was the same. There's like 60 kids in our class. You know all of them. And I see this boy, and I'm like, that is the most beautiful way.

You know, when you are in high school and you just think, like, my life is over, I've been hit by a... Yeah. Once you're an adult, you're like, okay, another male-man, male-shaped person who's a man. Right. Might end up with one of those. But back then I was like, I've been hit by the love arrow. Because that's exactly the type that you could ever dream up. And I run...

Oh, my God, because I love the strokes and I loved Indie Boys and... I love the strokes. I went to every fucking thing. Fabrizio. Marry me too. Fabrizio, my Fabrizio sister. was in my freshman of college class and I always be like, what does it feel like to know Fabrizio?

And she'd be like, he's my brother. And I'd be like, is he hot? And she'd be like, he's my brother. Like, I had a strokes mouse pad. I used to go to every stroke show. I had a strokes. Who did she date? Somebody hot, Fabrizio.

Drew Barrymore. Correct. And Kristen Wig. They were so hot together. There's no one in for Precios. Anyway, okay, back to pancakes. Okay, so pancakes, I see him outside of school. He's wearing like women.

Back then, you couldn't get skinny jeans for a boy. So he's wearing like women's boot-cut jeans. Corderoid, maybe. Corderoid, kids, worn band t-shirt, hair across the eyes. And I think, heaven, it's love. Love is happening right now. Because he's from Brooklyn, because he's cool.

Because he's from Brooklyn, because he's cool. I guess nothing ever happens again. He was waiting to pick up a girl that I knew from school. I seen him walk away together. I find out they go to camp together. I think there's my chances. They're blown. I'll never know a man like that.

Yeah. I go to the new school. It is because I went to the new school, Eugene Lane College for one year before I transferred to Oakland. Graduate. Graduate high school. Yeah. It's orientation for the freshman class of Eugene Lane College at the new school.

Look around the cafeteria. Who is it? Pancakes. I'm like, so I go to him and I'm like, I saw you at St. Anne's once. And he's like, oh yeah, I went to camp with Sarah. And I was like, oh, yeah, that's cool.

In college, you can do that. You say that. You hang out every day from there on out. He was in a band. Jamima, who ended up being on Girls' Night, we would follow his band around everywhere. She was hooking up with the other guy from his band. I would follow him around.

I would sit on like the amp that they were at their shows at pianos. I went everywhere they went. He and I had a joint 19th birthday party. And he would like talk about his crushes. I'd talk about my crushes, but I didn't really have any crushes because I ached for pancakes. And he didn't know? He must have known because I followed him everywhere. being like, being like...

You were his groupie. Yeah, and we were, like, best friends, and then we used to, like, sleep in the same bunk bed every night? Like, what are people doing freshman year of college that they can sleep with the same bunk bed? And the guy's like, do you have a crush on me or not? It's insane. So then...

That's why I asked you if he might be gay because I was just like, maybe that's why he never looked my way. No. Well, you... I would be... I would be gay if I never looked your way, too. That being... Right, that's the only reason you're saying.

Yeah, okay, okay. But that being said, right then I decided transfer schools. And right before I went away, I decided to, like, shoot my shot and be like, listen, it's now or never. Like, I love you, baby. And he, I remember, like, he was kind of, and we hung out all the time. We slept in the same bed, like, every night of every weekend. And I was like, hey, it's now or never, like, I'm going away to college. You might never see me again.

You're my guy. And he was kind of like, okay. And then he just kind of like ignored it and just wanted to keep being best friends. And it was a real point of pain for me. And so then I didn't really want to be best friends anymore because I was sad. Yeah. And then he felt hurt that I don't want to be best friends anymore. And I had to kind of be like, I can't be best friends because I feel these feelings for you.

And it's very stressful to me. that you just went, and he kind of was like, uh, and then years later, I didn't see him for years and years and years and years. And a girl came up to me and she was like, I'm KXX girlfriend. And he said he thinks about you a lot. And that really made me feel good. And that's it. It's the whole story. So there was never a kiss. You know, when you're like, maybe this, I always thought this happened to everyone, but maybe it didn't. I feel like there's a lot of guys that I liked where I'm like, we kind of touched the edges of our lips together. But like, I would not say there was a full on kiss. But like, I would not say there was a full on kiss. I would say there was like a kind of like, we're both in bed and we're both like kind of drunk and it's fresh in your college and we're like, you know, like a kind of, like what you would do with your gay uncle. Clearly, I'm great at love. Are you sure he's into women? I'm asking one last time. And he's like married? Whatever he's doing now, he's.

We need to stalk him after this. I'm going to help you to see that he is not intimate. That's not the issue. The issue was me, unfortunately, and you. I never said anything. The issue was us. I know a couple of women that he was into, and it was like a specific type. I know what it is.

What do you think it is? Mousy, tiny. Kind of, yeah. Like, it was a kind of, it was a kind of ethereal, like, indie goddess. Oh, okay. You know what I mean. And I never was able to fit that bill. I tried.

So do you like Jemima? She's kind of that. She, she, I think she's scared. Yeah. I think the thing about Jemma is she is an ethereal indie goddess, but what's so cool about it, but with the personality of like Bet Midler, you know? So she fills both coquions and that's why she's so special. I cannot believe we had the same high school crush.

So, you're going to turn 39 this year. Yeah. How old are you turning? 37. Your baby. We're like literally the same. I'm like, they're tiny. You're a child.

I'm turning 39 in less than a week. Wait, that's crazy. I know. And you're a Taurus. Do we align with being a Taurus? What are you? No, I'm a Gemini. Okay.

My husband's a Gemini. Oh. What day is your birthday? 31st. What's his? June 9th. Yes, I feel deeply connected to being a Taurus, almost upsettingly. So, do you feel connected to being a Gemini?

Yeah. I want to get tattooed, but like, it's kind of lame, no? I think, honestly, it's what about your tattoos? I mean, I'm covered, and all my tattoos are things I decided to get literally that day. They got. so I actually don't think there's any tattoo you can get that's uncool. Like, if you have the thought and then do it. Yeah.

So you don't regret them. There's such a thing now where everyone's lasering them off. I feel delighted with everyone. I have good ones. I have bad ones. I wouldn't laser a single one off. And some of them are really bad. I mean, I have a money sign on my middle finger.

And a cap, it's a green money sign and a capillary broke while it was being tattooed. And so it looks like my ring turned my. my finger green, but it's just permanently that way. Like, that's so stupid. But, like, why not keep it? Yeah, doesn't bother me. Yeah, it's just my body. I have, like, an ome, remember when oms were cool?

Yes. Like, I got an ome. Ome shanty. Great religion. Yeah, love it. I got my college dorm room on my neck. What's your room? 318.

Did you love your dorm? I loved my dorm. Wait, what college was this? Ithaca. Oh, yeah. Ithaca is gorgeous. Yeah, it's gorgeous. And what was the name of the building?

It was Telcott, I think. We had a Telcott at Oberlin, too. You did? We had a Telcott as well. And they must have been big dors. And I'm like, what happened in that room, you fucking nerd? Like, it wasn't that crazy, but I was like, this is crazy, you know? You know, I had big feelings about, I remember we lived in like 102 in Fireland's

dorm and I remember being like, it's the greatest days of homeless. Yeah. Like, great. It's great. It's great. The Jews don't love it. My grandmother was like, who cares? Yeah.

She was like 95 and like, who cares? I know. I got asked about it somewhere, like, you know, a know-it-all Jewish seven-year-old was like, yeah. I know that you can't get buried. And I was like, I think they changed it. That's such a good impression of like a Jewish seven-year-old, a cousin's friends, but mitzvah, who's mean, so mean, and has a lot to say.

Yeah. There's always one. I mean, I have a tattoo on my foot that's a rosary. Like, remember when, like, Harris Hilton or Nicole Ritchie had, like, rosary statute on their feet. I have that, except instead of a cross, it has pills. I'm dying. You know why? First of all, because, like, we're the same. And because, like, when I used to see people... Because we both love Mr. Pancakes and our college dorm. And when I got into tattoos, I only have, like, five. But when I started discovering them,

I was like, if I was Christian, the first thing I would get would be a cross. I was like, what do I... Like, I was like, that's how I feel. And then I was like, what do I love the way Christians love? The cross. Pills. I was like, pharmacology. No. Modern pharmacological science.

No, I can't. Wait, what age was that? Honey, 35. No. Like, I was not young enough for that to be okay. Most of my tattoos. Do you feel that way still, though? Are we into pharmacological?

I mean, I'm a sober person, but like, yes. Like, I'm really glad to have my... Medicine. I'm really glad to have my, you know, allergy medication and my antidepressant, yeah. Yeah, that is true. But you're sober. Yes.

Have been for almost eight years. Eight years. Seven and a half years. How is that? It's like the best thing. Here's the thing for me, it's, I have, I'm like, the way I feel about being sober is the same way I feel about being a vegetarian, which is like, it's the right thing for me. I have no, like, if you want to eat meat around me, if you want to get drunk, right, like, it's all good. But like for me and for the clarity that I need to live my life, for.

for my health, for my particular way of moving through the world, it's the right thing for me. But it's not, but not in a didactic, here's information about how you ought to live. It's like considering the set of circumstances of my life, it's the best analogy I can find for it. But for me, as a person who's dealt with like, who, as a person who deals with chronic pain, anxiety, for me, it's like, better to just have all of the ability to like tap out that I would, a collar, drugs, or whatever gives you off the table. Do you have any, like, bad habits that you've kept? Yeah, I chew Nicorette.

Okay. You know that I got some because I wanted my husband who stopped smoking. So I got him that. You know, like, I smoke it. I smoke at the end of the day, like House of Cards. Like, oh, what's his name? He's canceled now. Kevin Spacey.

Yeah. What's his name he's canceled now? I could have been like, like, ah, like big quit trivia game where I just starts screaming the names of men who are canceled to have smoked. And there's like 52 of them. So, you know, they share that cigarette at night. I don't have the addictive. Like, I can smoke one a night feel like good about it. But he's become gross. So I got him to correct. And he smokes a lot. And did you know that like there's a whole health movement where it's good for you, especially the gum? Did you, did you hear this? What's the gum could it be

doing for you? What the gum could it be doing for you? So here's a thing. Because I love it, but what could it be doing for you? call my mom who's like a health guru right now. She'll be like, great, Lena, keep chewing. That's what she'll say. So apparently the nicotine by itself can have health benefit. The smoking with the smoke and like going into your lungs and all that is bad. No, we don't want that. But good.

It might be, did you get like the flu this year? No. No, I didn't. You know, the conspiracy theory is? Like, this is how conspiracy start. You know why you didn't get the flu? Because I chew Nicorat. Yeah.

I didn't get COVID either either, actually. And it's the first year I didn't get COVID. So. Nicorette. Yeah, because I've had COVID a lot of times before that, Nicorette. And by the way, I have a family member who has cancer and she's in Israel and she asked me to send her because she read this research to. It's not made up. She read this research too.

Can you send me some hiccuret? I sent her the gum. This is blowing. My mind. This is blowing my mind. Someone's like, we have to smack a Joe Rogan warning on this podcast because you're like spreading Nicorette misinformation. But like, please. Do not.

But I, that is, because I did have a brief moment where I was smoking during the pandemic. During that, yeah, and I was like, the world is ending. Who cares? And then I was like, and until then you didn't? No. Really? Who doesn't smoke until they're 33 then starts smoking cigarettes? Well, that is weird because you did talk about in the New Yorker how like you're, you weren't

the typical kind of New Yorker, even though people thought you were because Hannah was kind of obsessed with New York. But, but like everyone smoked cigarettes in my high school. It's so wild because same with me. Yeah. And I was the kid who was like, you're all going to get lung cancer. Like I was, I was a kid who literally, and this is a fact, like printed when all my kids wanted to do my kids, I'm calling them my kids, because that's how old I felt. All my friends wanted to do my friends.

They're like, we weren't her friends. They wanted to do ecstasy. And I printed out literature that I found on the internet that was like, this will drain your spinal fluid and eventually like rob you. Wait, so you didn't do drugs in high school? I smoked weed one time in high school. Wait, that is crazy. Oh, I was such a late bloomer. I smoked weed one time in high school, did it a block from home, went to the local

to Agostino, ran into my mother, and then was so embarrassed and wanted to be rescued for myself so badly that I screamed at the top of my lungs. I have the munchies. I have, and she was like, is there something you're trying to tell me, Lena? Okay, you have to come home now. They were like, my parents said, oh, God. only time I smoked wheat in high school, didn't really start having any really, like, physical relationships, and I was pretty much, you know, in my, I was about to say double-dit, definitely double-digit.

In my 20s, early 20s, you know, wasn't a big drinker. So people were doing it around you. Did you do drugs in high school? Yeah. What was, what kinds of drugs were happening at your high school? I want to tell you what was happening. I want to know really bad. Okay.

So, first of all, a beacon a lot. A lot. Beacon was a bad girl. school. I got into cars with drug dealers at 15. There was a truck dealer named Bike that I got into a car with regularly. And then one day, and Bike drove a car. And then one day, where are you, bike? And then one day, a man was up. Page one. This is when you know it's the best podcast. It's my first slide. Like, I didn't even transfer. One day a guy who shows up is like six times bigger than bike. And my friend, wait, what were you doing if you didn't do drugs? Just hanging out.

just with my friend who was buying the drugs. I was always like, here to check, here to make sure everything's okay. And my friend, Chris, was like, what are you the guy who ate bike? Because bike, like, did, you know, like you'd call one lot number and then whoever came came. Yeah, I had Mike White.

That was my guy. Mike White? Mike White. And now we created White Lotus. Wait. No. Yes. Oh, my God.

It's the same name. Yeah. But he was called Mike White for a different reason. Because he had cocaine? Wait, no, he was white Mike. Sorry. Oh, white mic. Yeah, because of the cocaine.

White Mike. So then I remember calling for my friends and being like, we want it and like whatever. And then he was like, hey, I'm going to be on the corner of like 110th in Amsterdam, whatever. Yeah. I go. And I'm like, I'm in the sweater. Like, are you okay? I know.

My mom, you know, it's like, when are you coming back home? And I'm like in the car with white Mike. Like in the car with my mic. And there I was in the car with bike. And I wasn't even doing drugs. With bike. No, in New York. So do you see now, like, and I did, so I did that, and I did mushrooms. Shrooms.

I didn't. I know. Shrooms is what I did. We called the mushrooms too. I didn't do mushrooms until I was in college. I didn't do cocaine until I was in college. And I only have done cocaine like two times in my whole life. And both times. I remember when Hannah did it. Did you have the same kind of experience like Hannah? Well, when I had to do it on the show. I was doing such a bad job acting high that Jenny had to pull me aside and be like, that is not really how people. people on cocaine. Like Jenny and a couple of the writers were like, you're kind of acting like not like a person on cocaine because I hadn't even, I don't think the couple times they did I even successfully snorted it up. I was more of a pharmacol. Like I always liked something that felt safer. You know what we did in high school? We used to take like somebody's mom's like muscle relaxance and snort it. So I will tell you when I did drugs. Yeah. That was what I liked when someone would be like, I brought my mom, my grandmas, Zanax back from Boka.

That was like, I feel safe. Like, if bike handed everybody, if bike handed everybody a drug, I was like, we can't test this. We don't know what this is. Is this going to drain our spinal fluid? Good for you guys. Glad you're sick. Glad everything's good with bike.

Yeah. Not for me. But when someone was like, you know, my grandmother, we went into my grandmother's bathroom and she has this, you know, left over from her dental surgery. Then you were, you felt safe. That's exactly right. Is it because it's like from a doctor? I think.

there's a thing, especially in Jewish communities where you're like, if it's from a doctor, it's okay. And it's interesting. I've really had to be disabused over the last 10 years of recognizing the doctors are not always right. Right. Oh my God. We'll be right back after the break. I know I sound like a broken record when I say this, but it is so true. You need protein in your diet, you guys. Protein, protein. That is the name of the game. And for me, it's super helpful. to have a go-to protein powder because in one scoop, there's 20 grams of protein, okay? So if you don't feel like eating an egg, eating a chicken, and you just want something easy and on the go, you make a protein shake, or you add it to your favorite yogurt or smoothie

or whatever, and let me tell you which protein powder I am using, it's called Clean Simple Eats. It's cleanest, it's best tasting, and it's just amazing. It's always grass-fed, no seed oil. oils, no artificial ingredients, third party tested, non-GMO, and gluten-free. Each serving, like I said, has 20 grams of protein. It's incredibly creamy and smooth and I just love it. I also use the chocolate flavor in hot water and I make like a hot cocoa and it's so good. Like I said, I've been in a protein journey lately and clean, simple eats has saved me. It's so delicious and it's such an easy way to get 20 grams of Proteinite. Visit clean simpleeats.com. Use my code not skinny 20 at checkout for 20% off your first order. That's clean simple eats.com. My code is not skinny 20 for 20% off your first order. The link will also be in my show notes. Is it just me or have you noticed that every single thing

you buy or purchase or whatever has a fee? Cleaning fees for weekend rentals, processing fees. what are you processing? What are you processing? Fees are everywhere, and they really hurt the most when you're trying to save money. So that's why I'm here to tell you about Chime. Chime offers fee-free banking. No monthly fees, no overdraft fees, no minimum balance fees, sign up today at chime.com slash not skinny. Listen, banking shouldn't cause you money. You're already putting your money there. You're given a bank, your money to keep safe. Help me help you. Your bank should help you help them, all right?

You shouldn't be paying extra fees already. It's like, say thank you. I'm putting my money here. I'm trusting you with this, okay? Bank fees can really be such a hurdle on getting ahead or saving up. So fee-free banking with time really makes your life so much easier. There are no monthly fees. There are no overdraft fees.

There are no minimum balance requirements. And it is super duper easy to open an account. It takes two minutes at chime.com slash not skinny. That's chime.com slash not skinny. Chime feels like progress. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Bank, card provided by the Bankor Bank N.A or Stride Bank N.A. Members FDIC spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply.

Timing depends on submission of payment file. Fees apply at out of network ATMs. Bank ranking and number of ATMs, according to U.S. News and World Report, 2023. Shine, checking account required. Listen, I've said this before. Am I a little bit happy that I'm not pregnant right now? Yeah, I am because it's summer and it's hot. If you're chugging along a pregnancy, if you're six, seven, eight months pregnant, I feel you, girls, it's hard to be pregnant in the summer.

But you can do hard things. And one of the things that was most important to me to keep up with when I was pregnant and something that isn't hard is to take a prenatal supplement. So important when you're pregnant. My doctor actually reminded me all the time, and I was like, I know I'm taking ritual. Thank you. You need a prenatal. You go to ritual. Their mom founded, their third party tested for heavy metals and microbes, and they shared

the sources and suppliers behind their key ingredients. Ritual offers tailored nutrient support for key phase of pregnancy from fertility support formulated to support conception outcomes to their essential prenatal, which is what I took and postnatal multis to support key nutrient needs before, during, and after pregnancy. I love ritual. I also love the fact that their supplements never made me like burp up, you know, if you get gnaw when you're pregnant, you know it's so hard to find a supplement to take that you're not like, ugh, I'm going to throw up.

When it comes to pregnancy and postpartum support, you want products backed by research and transparency. Mom founded ritual puts in the work and shows you the proof. get 25% off your first month at ritual.com slash not skinny. That's ritual.com slash not skinny for 25% off. And we're back. Wait, okay, so let's go back to the New Yorker piece where you, it's basically a goodbye to New York in a way. Yeah.

Like a retroactive goodbye because you left a few years ago. It's like we had a really good run and I'm glad that I can come back and have these spells with you. Yeah. But I'm also really glad I figured out that this isn't the only place in the world. Do you feel like, by the way, when I was searching for it, the piece that came up above it was somebody being like, like the guardian wrote like a response to it, I think. You know, it's so funny, my friend, Nikki,

who takes care of my dogs and cats when I travel, sent that to me. And I was like, this couldn't possibly be good. And then I opened it. And he was like, not sure if you saw this. And I was like, this is going to be so mean. He just didn't read it yet. And then it was actually pretty nice. It was just a woman being like, I moved back to London.

Maybe you'll want to... We don't want to die here, is what you said now? It was basically saying, you might want to go back to New York to die. Yeah. And what did you think about that? I'm like, I don't know. I mean, this planet's going to be a burning... Yeah.

It's going to be a burning tire by the time we die. I don't know sure where I want... I'm not totally sure where I want to die yet. Where do you think you want to die? No, I don't want to think about it. I'm way too anxious to think about that. That's why that woman writing that, it freaked me out. I think about it every day.

You don't think about it every day. You don't think about it all the time. Every day I'm like, what's going to feel like? Where am I going to be? No, I can't. I can't think about it. I can't. It makes me too anxious.

I think we all have our way. But I will say, I can't think about tomorrow. I'm like, I don't know if I can renew my rent. Like, I don't know if I'll be here. And people are like, where are you going to go? I don't know. You know? Who can know?

I never know. So, but you think. Is your husband like that too? Or does he like to think about the future? He just does what I say. That's such a good answer. No, because like I met him in Israel. He's fully Israeli.

And I was like, we're going to move now. You know? He was like, in Haifa in the small town. I was like, we're going to move to Tel Aviv. How did you guys move? Me? I was in Israel on a trip after college. Do you just see him and go, what a hunk?

He was actually, pancakes reference. The first time I saw my husband, he was wearing a little like fedora-type hat. Which was, guys, for anyone who's younger and doesn't understand, that was really cool then. So cool. It might not seem good right now. Yeah. It might seem stressful. And he had like sideburns.

Also cool then. Right. Yeah. You're naming everything that was hot then. I used to hang out at Union Square on the steps and watch a bunch of pancakes, like skateboard. Like, and but you know it's so funny, and I wonder if this happened to you, because obviously we had the same type. Did you ever actually, like, date somebody that is that appearance? Because I always thought that was my type, but those kind of guys weren't ever into me.

You know, it's funny. I always thought that was my type. They weren't into me. I was into them. I was chasing these like indie slees dream boys. Yeah, exactly the indie boys. We're not really feeling me. I loved an indie boy.

And now my husband, if you look at pictures of him from that time, like I would have chased him across nine continents. And he would, I would have chased him interstellar style up down and all around just to hold his hand for five minutes. He so was the apotheosis of what I thought was cute. Well, he still is like a musician. Oh, I mean, it's the cutest thing I ever saw in my life. He's a beautiful indie. How did you meet him?

We met on a blind date. My friend, Honor set us up. And it was, so you saw your husband and he was wearing a fedora. Right. And did you say? I said, like, who's that? And someone was like, Wyss. Like, they said his last name because he went by that.

And I thought that was even cooler. Wice. And they were like, that's Wice. Yeah. And I was like, oh, okay. But I asked about him because I saw the fedora in the crowd. The fedora in the crowd. Because you're dead, so you don't get it.

The fedora in the crowd is your romance novel. Yeah, the fedora in the crowd. Okay. Oh my God, that's beautiful. It's beautiful. And we'll write it together. Yeah. And then we'll read it together.

My husband and I met because I was in London and I was there for work and I had to be on a, it was COVID and I had to be on a quarantine. And I was talking to, I have two straight male friends, literally. Shout out to Honor and Jesse. I have another one named Teddy. but like that's how few and far between that I can name them all on this podcast. And they were talking to me and they were like, how is London going? And I was like, it's not going. I'm in a mandatory 14 day.

Wow, that's awful. Yeah. Inside of my apartment quarantine. And they were like, well, have you met anyone? I was like, how I'm in a mandatory inside my apartment 14 day quarantine? And I was sad about a boy who had hurt my feelings and a man, a man who had hurt my, someone once pointed out that I call. men boys. I was like, I can't help. I can't help. So then my friend Honor suggested that he

sent out like a kind of all points bulletin to his like dude network being like my friends in London who wants to like show her what's what in this COVID world. Yeah. And I sort of relented thinking this is like at best going to be nothing at worst going to be really embarrassing but nothing and at best going to be maybe amusing for a night. And then he told me that I should have, like, take a walk with this guy and it turned out to be my husband. That's crazy. Isn't that crazy? You should do that. Well, you said you're not on Instagram, but there's this thing. What's the, how does that real start? Little did she know, she would then meet her husband. Like, there's a thing now. There's a trend. It's not little did she know. If only she knew, like it would be you in London

and quarantine in a mask. This is what the trend would be. it'd be like, if only she knew, two days later, she would meet her husband. Exactly. Exactly. Yes. It'd be like a picture of me lying on the floor. I'll give you this one, taking a sexy selfie of myself, holding a thing of Crest's Toothpaste. Sending it to who? This guy who had hurt my feelings who loved Crest Toothpaste. Again, you know who you are. And being, and him being like, no. And then, so that picture, little did you know.

Little did you know. She would meet her husband. And then I remember, like, three days into knowing him, he was like, you use Crest? No. He was like, gross. Oh, he's like organic. Yeah, he was like, get it out of here. Oh.

He was like, we're getting. And he uses like that. What did he use? He's a Marvis guy. Do you know that fancy Marvis? No. Can you get it here? It's very British.

You can get it at like Bigelow and some other places. I use what he uses. I use it. I'm like more of a Tom's of Maine girl. Mm-hmm. Like that's what I grew up on. What, like strawberry vibes? I grew up on the strawberries.

that's what we had as kids because we weren't allowed to use, like, deodorant with any aluminum. We weren't allowed to use toothpaste. We had to use... Because your parents are like hippies, yeah. So they were, like, my mother was always like, you can either have the option of Tom's of Maine deodorant or like a deodorizing

crystal kind of thing. Oh my God. I remember writing to my parents from girls summer camp and being like, I need deodorant and my mom sending me like one of those crystals and getting made fun of. But that's okay. It's not a formative trauma. No, no, it's just crazy that like they were so early on it.

They were really early on it. And I remember, you remember all the girls were getting like the dove, like the teen spirit. Of course. And like, love and like dove and stuff. And I was like, mom, I need teen spirit. And she was like, what do you want armpit cancer? And she was like, really? You want to have your armpits removed?

Wait, so what? I just need to be in the, in teenage Lena, that we have the whole picture of the St. Anne's and the pancakes and the bike and the getting in the car. and being the one that doesn't do the drugs. So how does that girl do tiny furniture, then do girls? Like, how did that happen? Well, I think I was always like,

and maybe you were like this a little bit, I mean, you sound like you were a really fun party animal and I would have loved to be around you. You would have came with me in the car. And also you remind me of like, sometimes I would go on like a summer program or like a two-week, like, theater camp or like I once took like a three-week trip to Cuba

with like an exchange program trip to Cuba and there was this like one like girl who kept like pulling guys off the street into our bus to make out. I'm like, I don't know. But there was always one like really fun, funny, bold girl where I was like, I'm going to be her.

We're never going to lose touch. She's my best person. I'm going to change my personality. This is who I am now. And then inevitably like she goes back to school in San Francisco and like I return to being the girl who follows everyone around I think a lot of people feel this way as writers, which is I was always an observer.

And I was always a person who liked to be around it but not doing it and bearing a witness to it, but not right up against it. And that was always really important to me and also a big part of just my instinct. And so I think the fact that I wasn't always the center of the action, but I was around the action. Yeah. I wasn't the one who was getting pancakes, but I was the one who was like on the amp. On the amp, watching pancakes. Yeah.

Like I was in that thing you do. And then spoffing. You weren't that thing you do. I love it. So sad. All of that. I can't wait to show you where pancakes is after this. But all of that was a really.

Material. Yeah. It was material. And it all built up. And I think sometimes the person who is, and you might feel to say like the person who is the most popular person lives at the center of it is the action, is the it girl, is the moment. Like, that's their expression.

That's what they're doing. And so for me, writing, making films and television, that for me is my expression. I don't have that deep social expression. Today, a friend of mine referred to me as a hermit. And I was like, I don't like that. That's a little sharp. But like...

Because, what, you don't like to go out a lot? I don't like to go out a lot. I don't like to be... I find, like, go... I turn into a pumpkin pretty early, but I like... I would say more homebody than Hermit. Yeah.

Do you want people to come over? I love when people come over. Okay. And I love coming over to people. Okay. But I would say... It's like really... Like, do you feel like you...

I get a feeling from you that you're an extrovert, not an introvert. I'm an extrovert, but I don't like going places. So, but you would be delighted if people were over at your house all day chatting? No.

You like time alone? How much time alone do you like? I don't know, Lena. I haven't thought about it. Really? But you've thought about everything. How much time alone do you like? A lot.

Really? Well, I love to be with people at work, and I love to be with people in a, like, the context. But then I want, I don't know, every day. Yeah, okay, okay. I'm talking. I'm talking about. I want to have at least three hours at the end of the day,

whether it's to write or to write. Yeah. or to read or to, you know, drink a bubble tea. That's just completely unfettered. I don't mind if it's with my pets, but other people talk it or if it's quiet time with someone I love. Yeah. But I...

It's very specific. I need to close my eyes and open them again. And so sometimes if I'm, if people are over or if we're together, there's some pressure to that. Uh-huh. I really value when I have a friendship or we can have that kind of time together. And the best friends are the ones that you can. cannot see for a long time and then kind of hang out again. Yes, or you can hang out within.

You don't have to talk. Oh, the best. I have actually a friend that like, it's not even that we vibe that hard, but we do have that comfort where we could just not talk. And that doesn't have. I'm like, there must be something here if we can just hang out, you know? Of course. Parallelow play is what my mom calls it. But I do, I won't talk about how you create a girls because I feel like me and you could do a four-hour podcast. But we do not a time. to need to talk about the importance of it and how it's trending still after all these years.

Like TikTok is eating it up. Are you aware? You know, I've... I'm the voice of my generation is a trending sound. It's crazy to me. I have, I will admit. I admitted it.

I've admitted it before. TikTok is the only, because I don't have my own, I mean, I don't have the password to my own Instagram account. I don't have a password to my own. I mean, I don't use X. I don't have Instagram.

I don't have Facebook. those things, but I have a like ghost burner TikTok account because I love TikTok. Do you like watching TikTok? I don't actually. See, that's, but do you like using Instagram? Yes. See, I just like I like TikTok because I feel like it's a chance to know

where the youth is at. Random things. I don't, and so sometimes it'll pop up that sound and it's in a totally random context. Yeah. And it's so sweet. Like I'll see like a really cool sex worker in Australia using a sound from girls and I follow her totally separately

because of a great video show and I feel so happy. You know that Zosha was on my show. That's not how you say her name. Zasha. Rewind. It's so hard. Here's the thing I'll tell you. We call her Z so you don't have to worry. Never again. Zasha, it took me years to say.

It's because I'm trying so hard to say right that I say it wrong. I agree. And it's also you just have to remember it's just Sasha with the Z. It's Zasha with Izzy. So she was on. She was great. I listened to the episode. It was great.

You did? Yes. I've listened to your show before. Okay. I know. I'm shocked. I love it. I love you.

I love you. You're a cultural figure in your own right. I told you that I said to my father this morning. I know. I was like, Papa, I'm going on a podcast. That's why my hair's done. Yeah. And he was like, what podcast?

And he said, it's called not skinny and not fat. And he like kind of looked at me and he was like, it seems like a good podcast for you. And I think he thought he's being really nice, like, well, you're not fat. And you're not too skinny. You took it as a compliment. And he's really in his, like, body positivity era. Love that for him. He's really in his like, every role on you is just right.

Like, he's really trying. So he thought it was a chance to support the movement. And you're like, not that guy. Never mind. Never mind. We don't have to worry. So Zasha was on, told her about the thing with her and girls is that the TikTok generation is having a revelation that, like,

Like, she was the most, like, the best character. Best character, most enlightened. Right, exactly. And we didn't know it, you know. And when we were watching, we thought she was annoying, we didn't get it. Yep. And she said on the pod that she has suggested to you a show spin-off and that you weren't not on board. No.

Yeah. Listen, I love Shoshana. I am on record as saying she is my favorite girl. I think she is the one with the most, like, I think she's the one who's going to, who is going places. Yeah. I think Shoshana's going places.

And also, it's just such a joy to watch Zasha be her. So if there was like the right context for us to do it, I'd be fucking thrilled. And also to do anything with her. Like, and I have,

we've already kicked around, like, we've all just kicked around jokingly where they would be now. Yeah. And I kicked around some ideas with Zash about like where we would find, with Zash about where we would find,

It was also always confusing because it was like Shosh and Zosh. That is a little confusing. But she would be such a brilliant, like she'd be so brilliant at revisiting it. And I just miss it and I miss her. So anyway, I'm in. You're in. And you're busy. How does this busyness work?

Because, wait, before that, Jemima, you were such good friends. Are you still close? Yes. And she will always, I mean, we've been close since we were 11. Was she St. Anne's. St. Lance. We met when we were, I was 11 and she was 12 when we met. So like whatever the, the kind of, like we've been living in different places, hilariously enough, like she came

from England when she was 11 to New York. Yeah. Now she's in New York and I'm there. Did she think it was hilarious? Because I could see you being like, how funny that you're there and I'm here and then you're in New York and I'm. And her being like, that's not funny at all. Right. Literally. Me being like, I'm in London where you're from. And she's like, okay, lots of people are from there. Right, that's what I could see happening. And I did pass the school she went to as a kid and, like, text her really excitedly. I was like, I just passed the Herodian.

She was like, so. But she will always be, and her family, Lola, Domino, her sisters, like, they will always be a really important part of my life and my story. And she also was such a big, like, she really gave me the confidence also to start directing because to have your best friend, like, act and make. you feel that you have what it takes. I didn't realize that she was kind of big-upping me as a director at the time. I didn't realize that she was kind of with a wink and a nod doing what I asked of her

and giving me the honor and respect of, like, performing my scripts. But she really is also a big part of giving me the confidence to do this. People ask me, like, people ask me all the time, why wasn't pancakes and other people into you? And I say, I was too much. I just gave you that talk at lunch today because she was talking about dating. And I said, listen, I went to college with these John Mayer fucking guitar people.

I would be like, gross song! And then the Katie's and the tiny little mousy people would be like, I want to die to that song. And like, he would date them. And I wouldn't get why he didn't date me, even though I was like, songs are trash. Like, whatever. Yeah.

Too much. You're almost new show. I mean, no, by this, when it comes out, coming out July. It's coming out in July. Which I've watched some, and I'm so happy about it. That's so nice. I'm so happy about it.

I'm so happy to see you and your work back on my screen because we need it. And it's just so you and so important. Thank you. And they sent me like five episodes, and I'm so happy that in that is the episode where they discuss the too much because I feel like that's so. So I love that it like, you know, the title actually relates to like a point in the show. Thank you. but can I say what he says with it too much? Of course you can.

So he's British, right? Because it's kind of like a... I mean, it's very... There's aspects of it that aren't and there are aspects of it that are, but my husband and I created it, and there's a lot of it that's very close to our story of meeting and getting to know each other. So she's you and he's your husband,

but he's like, oh, you're too much. And she's like, I mean, I'm too much. And you're not enough. he says, no, like, men in a good way, like, you're too much, like in a British kind of slang. Is that what it was like when you met your husband? Well, so when I met my husband, my mother, when I was a kid, and blessed by my parents, they dealt with, I mean, I was a very eccentric kid, and they dealt with it with good humor. Like, I had, I had separation anxiety, I had OCD, I had physical health stuff, I had social

stuff, like, they were dealing with a lot. I was not giving them any peace. But my mother would always be saying, quiet down your voice. My mother would always saying, this is a little bit much. My father didn't want to say be quiet. So he started saying Soto Voce, because he thought it was more respectful. What language is that in? It just means, like, quiet your voice down in Italian.

Okay. It's like basically what they say in, like, a, like, fancy Italian opera. They're just like, like, soft. It means like soft voices. So it's my father trying to be very sweet, which is he doesn't want to be like, shut the fuck up. Yeah. So my parents were.

always finding ways to like kind of pull the reins of what my former analyst calls my wild horse energy. And so my husband, when we met, I would say things and he would say, you're too much, you're too much. And I always, when he was saying it, I was contracting as if he was telling me to calm down, to chill out, to be less. And then suddenly I realized one night that what he was actually saying was like a real term of endearment because he would talk other things and say, it's too much, it's too much. And I realized, oh, it means it's cute, it's sweet, it's lovely. I love that. And it really was like a small but big thing, which it gave me massive context and made me realize that like we are so conditioned to feel

that our largeness, whether it's physical or emotional, it's like, how much time do we spend not just as women as people, like trying to like tuck in our chins? And, rearrange our hair so it's like kind of like covering this part of us and then like you know sit up so you can't see her stomach but then also have your voice be not too loud but then also have your ideas be not too strong and I didn't realize how much despite sort of being publicly consumed as a person who spoke their mind I had fallen, prayed all of that and then how much he was reprogramming me and so I wanted to talk about that and also how many women I know who feel that way in dating and feel like they don't have any they don't have any way to express themselves

fully and it's so sweet like my i've actually noticed that there is something like my husband is he's not just british she's also peruvian and i think there's something about like he is come like there's something about his what i don't know what the deal is with his peruvian heritage but they really appreciate like they appreciate bigness and passion and enthusiasm let's you know vibes I've spent a lot of time now in Peru, and it's like they appreciate warmth and energy and intensity and big expressions of love and music and laughter. And, you know, I think that like the, and his family laughs big and they love big. And I felt like I was a welcome.

My energy was for the first time, like a welcome addition to the room and not too much. And it's interesting that you had to go to Israel, which has, by the way, like a lot, there are a lot. Have you been? Yes, I have. And the more you travel, the more you realize how many different, like how much,

like, for example, the more I've realized, like Jewish culture, Latino culture, Greek culture, Italian culture. Like, there's these things that we, there's, you know, when you, like, meet people who are, like, Moroccan culture, you meet these, these different, places that all have this same vibe, which is like, for example, in America, you meet lots of immigrant families who have the same stereotype that the Jewish mother of the Jewish mother,

which is like big, noisy, loving, overbearing woman. That thing that, like, my mother occupies in our family is the same thing that my husband's mother occupies in their family. And so he was totally ready for me. And it's interesting that you felt like you had to go there. Yeah, totally. And that like these kind of like too cool for school, New York boys weren't necessarily getting it. They weren't getting it. The girls can get it. I feel like the guys, it's like different. I don't know what it's like with American men, but I do say this and I feel like I say this not as a joke.

If you can't find someone here, fly on out. I think everyone should try going somewhere else to date just because it's good for expanding your mind. Like even if I hadn't met my husband, I would have been glad to. And by the way, I always say when people, people are like, should I go to London or all the guys there? I'm like, a lot of the guys there are really stiff and really straight because they're British. Right. My husband happens to be British Peruvian, and so he was down to clown in a different way. Like, I went on a couple other dates with British guys and I was like, this man is going to die by the end of the night. Like,

I'm going to be the death. Right, because they're very, but, okay, but you, he's going to have a heart attack at this breakfast date, but my husband happened to be the right person for it. But it was still good for me to go to another place and try whatever my schick was. Right. And then you can get a different response. Like maybe it's different. If you're a stand-up comedian, you want to go test your act out at clubs across America. It's the same with dating. It's the same thing. And also if you look at it, if you're still single in your 30s as a woman, chances are you've been dating for 20 years. That's a long time to try something and knock at the result you want. Yeah. So you have to go try it somewhere else.

Try it somewhere else. I'm down with this. So. So you're now a married girlie. And then you created. How have you been married? Since 2015. Oh, so you've been married for a long time. No, I know, a child bride.

For my wedding, I literally dressed like I'm out of Alexander doll. I was like, I'm such an old, decrepit, ancient bride at 35. I better wear a dress like a little doll at a fair shorts. Did you always want to get married? Like, were you a fairy tale wedding kind of girl? Like, I didn't want to be because I came from such a feminist. Like, my mom was literally part of a girl. group called Wack Women's Action Coalition.

And I was always like, my mom, like, wore like a pantsuit at her wedding and had, like, short hair. Like, it was not the energy of my home, but I love fluff. I love frills. I love, I always just wanted it. And I, like, I had, like, four outfit changes at my wedding. Oh, my God. I was like, I don't want to do this multiple times.

And I want the chance to do this. To do it big. To do it big. I love that for you. And it was really joyful. And luckily, my husband loves, like, like, when we, I, When we got engaged, he didn't get, he just asked no engagement ring. And then I was finally five days that are like, so what about a ring?

And he was like, well, you didn't get me a ring. He wanted to do everything. Together. Together. And so when I had outfit changes, he got out for changes too. Stop. Yeah, he was really into it. So when you say that he was your co-creator on too much, like this is new to him, this world.

Did you bring him in? You felt like you needed him to be part of it? I felt like if I was going to write something about, especially like British culture, about someone who's not just like the character of Felix in the show he's not just British. Played by Will Sharpay

was so good and he's so in this character and so different from like the White Lotus and whatever else he did that it takes you a minute to like you're like oh my God, you know?

He's an amazing he's so good actor he's such a brilliant, talented, sweet man and such a talented writer creator. He, you know, I felt like to write a character

not just a British guy but like a guy who is like mixed British and also has like one parent who's from a different country and is trying to figure out that confusion of being sort of like partially this upper crusty part of the like someone who's trying to be part of like the grand British experiment but also comes from another place.

I needed my husband's input and ideas. From the minute we met I was like you are as funny as a comedy writer. I really feel like you could do this. Like if we again, I was like, I know that you have only ever read eight books and somebody was pretty much reading them allowed to you. But do you think that we could just kind of organize your thoughts a little? And he was amazing.

And he also just really helped. I feel like writing men, I really love working with male actors. I really love trying to create nuanced male characters, but it was really helpful for me to have his post. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, like there are essential differences. is about the way that we have moved through the world that I think he was just able to really nail.

And so, yeah, it was an incredible asset to me. If you love your job and you spend so much time on it, and then it naturally takes you away from your partner. Right. So it's so nice if life is built together. Yeah. So you think his end to it is going to want to keep doing stuff like this? Yeah, I think he is.

I think he's really good at it, which just makes it extra special. And there were so many cameos in this show. We went cameo crazy. We really did. Camio crazy. And people that you've worked with, I feel like you like the people that you like. I like to bring it back. You like to bring it back. I really do. Um, Meg, who plays you in the show. She's the best. Which I, I love her from Hacks. It's so great. She's brilliant, special person. And the decision to not play it, which I don't, you've talked a lot about it. But to me, if that was the only reason, if there were more reason, do you get what I mean? Like, I hope that wasn't the only. No. Okay. I think that was like the quote. People are like, she doesn't want to play it because,

I think someone asked in an interview, did you want to play it? And I said, no, I didn't want to. And in addition, I think it's really hard to have received that level of physical criticism and want to step back on screen. But honestly, for me, it's that when you're in your 20s, if you want to write, if you want to direct, if you want to act, if you want to do it all at the same time, you have the energy, you have the time, you have the style.

Now, I'm an older lady. I've got all a different stuff to attend to, but also, As you know, as you get into your 30s, like, you just, I did not realize in my early 20s just how much energy and stamina I have. And so now if I have to choose. When you walked in, I was like, Lina, you're my third thing of the day. And only for you, I would do a third thing. That's exactly right.

But in your 20s, wouldn't you probably done three things? So many things. I would have done 15 things. And so I think for me, it's like, I don't, only for you would I do three things. It's like in the show, in girls, I did three things. And this was me going too much. You know what, too much. Okay. Well, that makes me happy to hear.

And also, with actors, I'm always like, you are the best at this of everyone. You are, I loved doing it on girls, but I always knew that there were people who were as good at doing it. You think? No. Well, thank you. No, I'm not going to let you do that because you were fucking amazing and, like, just. It was great for the moment that we, it was a joy to do it for the moment we were doing it. And I'm really happy that I get to direct Meg doing it now. So how does it work?

work. You took off, like, a few years. And then how does it work? Lina Dunham? Picks of the phone is like, ding, ding, I'm back. And then all of a sudden, bang, bang, bang. Too much is coming out. You're working on the rom-com, good sacks with Natalie Porman. There's the play that you're working on, right? The 10 things I hit about you. I'm working on 10 things I hate about you with Jess Wang and Carly Ray Jepson, which has been an amazing process. So tell me how this happens? Like, you call your agents, you're like out of hibernation. Like, how does this happen? I know what it's more like, actually, although I love your version where it's like, I'm back, ladies, get me on the line with, you know, actually, I've kind of been quietly working away on lots of stuff. And then it all gets announced in this odd when it rains, it pours torrent. And it's like, actually, we've been working on the play for four years. And we've been working on the show since 2020. And we have been, you know, there have been lots of things. in that time that haven't worked out because things take time guys things take time if you want to do

something well it takes time unfortunately yeah the other thing is that the movie business is a lot of incubating lots of eggs and some of them hatch and some of them do not yeah and then some of times they all hatch all at the same time and that's what it is so then and also the narrative of the movie business is always like so-and-so took a break only to return with X and it's like the real because it wouldn't sound as sexy as the actual cover she's been working on those Which is like she's been slowly puttering along with one three-day vacation a year. Yeah. And occasionally taking an afternoon off to rewatch Alias.

Like, that doesn't sound that great. Yeah. So they're going with that version. So with the timing, so we have the show coming out in July too much. It's going to be on Netflix. Yep. You're filming this summer, the rom-com with Natalie Foreman. With Natalie, which I'm thrilled about.

She's one of my favorite actors in the world. And I've wanted to make romantic comedy for a long time, also for Netflix. Did you write it for her? I wrote it for her, and she's producing it with me, which is incredible. That's insane. The play is coming out. You're working on it. We are working on it, and we have our first really big workshop this summer.

So Jess, who is my incredible collaborator, co-writer of the book, and Carly Ray are going to be kind of overseeing the workshop of the book that we've already written. Wait, so it's based on the movie? So it's based on the movie. Okay. And we've kind of done, I would say, I would say, like, for people who love the movie, don't worry. we're being faithful enough. I trust you. But for people who don't know the movie,

or for people who are like, what's new in store for me, there have been some exciting twists that I think speak to a more modern time while still giving total reverence to the show and to the film. And then to really, like, and then the real piece of resistance

is like Carly and Ethan Gruska's brilliant music. And I'm a total musical nerd, and it is a real pleasure to be in that space. I don't know when we're officially headed to Bway. Okay. But we are having our first kind of workshop for producers and other people to see so that they can start to make those decisions this summer. I'm so excited.

I'm hoping that people will be able to start seeing it in 2026. And then I also have a book coming out in 26. You're going to make me read again? I'm going to make you read again. Unfortunately, I'm going to make you really put those little CVS reading, You are really well because I know that everything you write. And I'm going to write you a really nice inscription. Okay.

Dear darling. Yeah. And it's a memoir sort of about the period of time from when girls began until now. Wow. And both my work life, my health, my sobriety, and also just like kind of reflecting on our societal relationship to women, fame, self-awareness. self-examination, self-flagellation. Like, it's both a personal story and a kind of larger cultural examination.

And I've been working at it for a long time for six years. Is it done? It's basically done. But then 2026, like a year or like that? I think it's going to be next spring. My editor, Andy Ward, do you hear me, Andy Ward? I think it's going to be next spring, right? It takes time.

It takes time, but then you write a cultural reference. What happens? You write in there a cultural reference from right now. like to my book that comes out next spring. It was like in your book. Like I mean, like a pop culture reference that's like relevant now. That's what I always wonder. I mean, I try not to do like a, it's funny because there's certain pop culture references

you think are fleeting that then turned out to be forever like Charlie bit me. You know? Like it's like you thought that was going to be one week. That was such a good example. Like Charlie bit me will never not, you never not know, never not know what that is. Never not. But then there's certain things that you think are going to be forever. Yeah.

That turned up just to be forever. bleeding. So you never know. Right. And you have to try and all your work to like not include, like I always try not to include things to kind of include things that make it feel current, but not date it too much. Like you could always reference Katie Perry wearing the hamburger outfit to the mat. You could literally always reference it. And honestly, you can always reference her wearing the candelabra to the mat. Because just in general reference Katie Perry. But you know what's weird? I don't think a blue origin reference is going to be fresh forever. You know, you think people are going to be like, oh, she took that spaceship ride?

I think people are going to be like, she's taking, I think people are going to be like, do you know how many fucking spaceship rides have happened since then? Yeah. So many other people. Yeah. I think that she's going to be the least of her troubles. With all these new things coming out, the last question I have is there was a polypocket thing going on. Yes. Pulled out.

I pulled out. Why? You know, I love, I love that. Firstly, it sounds crazy. But I love that piece of IP. Like, I truly love polypocket toys. To this day, like, I just saw that one of my favorite clothing brands, Lisa says Gah. I have no affiliation with this professionally, was doing a polypocket branded, like, clothing

drop. And I was like, I want all of this. Like I, but I realized, I think that, you know, what Greta did with Barbie, managing to take this piece of IP and make it so personal and specific is really, really hard. And I just didn't think I was going to be the best person for the job. I was like, I am not going to do this as well as the other. like I, and I think it will, because Greta did it so well, like, it's always going to be unnecessarily compared and she's my friend and I love her and we've known each other for 20 years. Like, who needs that? And there, that movie just changed the world and let this be something different. Yeah. And, and I'm going to go pursue something different. And it just, you know, sometimes you just have to like have

the bravery to know when to say no, when to say no. And I used to be really scared because I always thought, everything is fleeting, but it's not. It's okay to say no. And you know what art you're, like, best at making. Yeah, I said no to something last weekend. It was really hard, and it was 100% correct. Like you know it now. Yeah.

A job thing. Yeah, a job thing. And I was like, I was like, am, no, no. That's what she said yes to, guys. This podcast. This podcast. And I'm so glad I did. I'm so fun.

I love you so much. I really love you back. I love you so much. From the minute, we realized that we both loved to. Well, even if I love you. you from before. I love you from before. I'm going to write all my information for you down right here or in your phone even better. You fucking better. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Not Skinny but Not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny but Not Fat. Subscribe to the podcast

so you don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcast and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocharoo. Thank you guys so much for listening. And I'll see you next Tuesday. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.