Not Skinny But Not Fat - LINDSAY HUBBARD: THE SPLIT

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

Summer House's Lindsay Hubbard details everything that went down in the crazy split between her and her now ex-fiancé Carl Radke, from the conversation with his parents, the sting operation with the producers, her anxiety following the fallout, and her new man.Produced by Dear MediaThis episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Hi, I'm Caroline Stambrie, star of The Real Housewives of Dubai, entrepreneur, wife, and mother of three. Once divorced and now remarried to a much younger man, uncut and uncensored with Caroline Stambray follows me as I live my life unapologetically and shows you that there is life after 40. I discuss everything from relationships, health, wellness, business, parenting, friendships.

I'm here to let you know that not only is there a life after divorce, but you have the power to make it your best one yet, just like I did. Listen to all new episodes every Wednesday, anywhere you get your podcasts. Welcome back to the Not Skinny Bonafat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch, and I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars from my very own podcast, where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. You guys, Lindsay is in the house.

I'm here. We started without you guys. We started. And we just also said, like, I really remember the day you and Carl were here in the other studio. It was my first time interviewing you as a couple. I was team. I know. Carl Linz or whatever.

I think it was last season, honestly, like a year ago, maybe a little over a year ago. And I told you just now, like, the feeling that I got was a little off from him. yeah i'll tell you what i felt yeah please do because i mean i don't think you felt it at the time not by way what it looked like but there were just things that he said that were like almost like too performative about how he feels about you right i see what you're saying like i wanted i saw an address and oh right i like came oh like he had to jerk off or something yeah like a lot of like really like excessive like exaggerating or like, I don't know, overcompensating, like, his feelings for me.

But I don't know for what, what are you overcompensating for? But it felt like, do people, like, talk like this in the world, you know? Yeah, I don't know. I mean. I mean, I think at the time it flattered. It looked like it really, like, felt good to you because somebody's saying all these nice things. Of course.

Yeah. Well, yeah. Like, it obviously feels good when you hear a guy is like, oh, my God. You're so hot. I had a jerk off. Yeah. Like when you left. Right.

Like that who isn't flattered by that? I'm like, hell yeah. Like he just sounded kind of like, not rehearsed, but it was like, and then she came downstairs like a scene out of like. Like he was painting a picture and it was like. Yeah, I just like got in the elevator and showed up at your door. Yeah, like she came down in this dress. I remember this purple and it was.

Yeah. So I felt a little conflicted after the interview. Like I knew that I was supportive of you guys a couple, which at the cast at the time was was, you know, the drama that was going on. But then I was wondering, I was like, is he okay? Like, is he who he is? I mean, but then I was like, he's been through so much. Like, he was struggling with addiction for so many years. So we saw like a completely different person and now we're getting to know this person. But anyway. Well, yeah, I think there's an element of smoke and mirrors with Carl where like he wants to present himself to the world

as one way because he so desperately seeks like the approval and the validation. from everybody you know so he he just really he really wants to like present himself as a certain way to the world which is different from you because you've dealt with so much like criticism and shit over the years and you've remained so strong in the face of it well i think like i inherently have like a self-confidence that i've always had like my whole life even since i was a little kid You know, and it's it's hard when, you know, I think he really struggles with like self-confidence and self-esteem. And so, you know, it's it's almost like the way he views himself is just not great. So he pretends to be somebody so that everyone else in the world views him as like this, you know, amazing person. But that's not how he, you know, always is. And it's not. not how he feels about himself inside and that's really sad did you have to like be his hype woman a lot well yeah and that's what i felt over like last summer and you're seeing it play out this season so far is

like i felt like i was his only source of confidence and like if i wasn't like into one of his like random la la land ideas then it would shatter his confidence and like that was all on me but like that's not what a relationship should be about. Like, you need to have your own confidence. You need to love yourself first. You need to, like, be your own supply of self-esteem. I should just be the cherry on top. So would you have accepted if, let's say,

because we're alluding to the conversation of going into the non-alcoholic lover boy thing, which you weren't that into. Let's say Carl was a man that was like, I'm telling you what I'm doing. I'm not asking you. And like... Well, if he did that, I would have been like, great.

At least he made a decision, but you have to keep in mind, by the summertime, this has been going on for like eight or nine months. Oh, it's not like a new idea by any means. He quit lover boy the November before. So December, January, February, March, April, May, June, July. That's eight months later, August, nine months later. So eight or nine months later, I'm still having these conversations with him of like, what do you want to do? Like, what direction do you want to go in? Do you, you know, you went to school for this?

want to like try to do something in the TV film production and like then he wouldn't do anything you know so it's a lot of talking a lot of talking and not doing how did you feel about him airing some finances on on TV well his finances were not correct like it was off they were off yeah okay so again the smoke and mirrors but I don't care I mean no because like I mean yeah that's like that's not really appropriate for him to be airing like my personal what I'm making like outside of you know the show but whatever i mean it's how is that going to harm me no it's not going to harm you just just that thing what i did what i did not appreciate about that conversation is like he's basically like speaking out of both sides of his mouth right like in one situation

or the same sentence he's like well you know when lindsay asked me what i'm doing for a career in my mind i'm like well what are you doing but then literally the next sentence and breath. He's like, well, but she works with brands and like pulled in, you know, X amount of money so so far this year. Right. And then the next breath, he's like, oh, but so did I. So like, you're using this like influencer brand campaign, you know, career, saying it's not a career, but then that's how you're making your money. Would you be okay if he was like, I want to be an influencer like you? I was the one who was like, hey, like I have a manager. Go reach out to him. At least you can like pull in something, do something. And get some deals. But here's the thing. You're complaining.

you're saying, I'm making more money because I'm a woman. How many male-dominated career fields are out there to the point where, like, us as women have had to fight our entire lives in these male-dominated fields? Well, it was just like, why are you complaining about, like, oh, I'm making more money than you because I'm a woman? Then go work in a male-dominated field where there's plenty of males making way more money than almost every single woman in the United States. Yeah, leave us our swipe-ups. Yeah.

Yeah. Leave us alone in our female dominated field. Anyways, I just thought like he spoke out of both sides of his mouth in that conversation. So I was less like annoyed about like, you know, him airing out like whatever I made at that point in the year. You know, the year as opposed to like you're you're making no sense and contradicting yourself. Right. At every sentence. Yeah. I think he. I think he was trying to say I am bringing in something. So why is she upset? Well, the only reason he was bringing in anything was because. because I was pushing him to do anything all year round. Was that the main source of fighting, this, like, job, no job thing? I think there was, like, a lot of communication issues. Like, as you can tell, like, Carl- One thing to you and one thing-normal. Does not, like, communicate quite, like, an adult should, you know? Like, we are adults.

Like, he was 38 last summer. I was— How old was I? 22. Yeah, exactly. I was 22, you know, and I just felt like, you have to have conversations about everything in life, especially if you're going to get married. And, like, he just struggled so hard with, like, talking about anything that wasn't happy and butterflies and rainbows.

You think he was scared of your reaction to things? Okay, that's, like, his argument. But every time he wound up talking to me about anything, I'm like, okay, cool. Right, you were. So I'm like, why is this guy, like, painting such a picture? Like, I'm such a hard, person to talk to when every single time I was like okay great and how do that make you feel like what are your thoughts now and like yeah you know I would I would ask a lot of questions well even when he confronts you about talking to his parents you were poised you were a little shocked I was calm you were I could tell you were a little like shocked but you what was my reaction no but you I was like wow you really didn't yeah people need to like keep in mind I'm

Amanda, like I haven't gotten activated in two years. How? What do you want? What's that thing? All last season, like, I never got activated. Did you like work on yourself? Did you make a decision to not? I just like, you know, I think it was like years of therapy of like learning how to, you know, control my reactions. No, that doesn't, you know, keep in mind. Obviously, I got drunk at the beginning of the summer and got emotional and the cup runneth over with my emotion. Yeah. But I was still, like, not, like, out in the world, like, screaming and getting activated, you know? You think you're done with that phase? I think it's just, it comes into different forms.

Yeah. You know. No, you were really sitting there listening. And then he didn't even give you all of it the first time. And then gets you up in the middle of dinner. What is going through your mind? Are you, like, he's backing out. Well, if you, okay, wait, back up for a second, right?

Because he told me sitting on our couch before. the, like, day before my bridal shower. Right. That's when you first told me and didn't tell me everything. And still, what was my reaction? I was like, okay, so, like, what are they concerned about? What's the concern? And he even said, he's like, you know, but this is my life and I make my own decisions.

And I was like, I don't understand why you keep saying that to me. So, like, what did they say that you keep saying that this is your life and you make your own decisions? And he still couldn't tell me what it was. But again, my reaction was like, I'm just trying to understand. what's going on. But what was your internal? And then here we are after dinner or in the middle of dinner, you know, that next week.

And I'm just like, I don't, I don't understand what is happening right now. Here's how that conversation in that dinner where I'm wearing like the red and orange dress. Yeah. So like we're all sitting at dinner. He comes out of the house. And when I tell you the door slammed behind him, it, you could feel this like dark energy. like coming at you. And he's a 6-5 man, right?

So he sits down and I'm like, hey, like, we're you guys talking about lover boy? Like, have some steak. The chummy churry's great. Like, you know, like, I have no idea. And, you know, he's just, you could tell he is like not doing well. So we go inside and like he started off the conversation like, Lindsay, you're upset. You're upset.

Like Amanda told me you were crying about abandonment issues and I, you know, and he, and I, I was like, what? I was like, look, this is my own thing that, like, I have been dealing with my whole life and, like, I'm allowed to get emotional about it, you know? And he was more, like, upset that he thought I was upset with him. And so the first half of that conversation, I'm basically, like, consoling him that I'm not upset with him. Yeah. And, like, making him feel better that I'm not upset with him. Right. But then he's talking about how he's so overwhelmed and he has so much anxiety. I'm like, what is it that you're overwhelmed about? Because this doesn't make sense. Like, I'm planning the wedding. I'm doing all of like the heavy lifting. And you didn't think maybe,

you know, like managing the household back at home. I'm the one who's making all the decisions, having all the tough conversations, driving the ship in every direction. What is it that you're overwhelmed about? Like, we don't have kids. We're not married. You don't have a nine to five job here. Did you think maybe the parent conversation? In that moment where you like, wait, was this conversation bigger than? So then, you know, he finally drops the bomb on me about what Lou actually said in that conversation.

And I'm like, oh, so he was overwhelmed about the bomb he had to drop on me. And yet I'm still the one who's having to console him and make him feel better about dropping that bomb on me. And it just didn't make sense any of it. So at the end of it, I was just like, I'm just exhausted by this conversation. Like, I don't even have a reaction. Did you care that his parents were saying this? Oh, of course.

Of course. Like, I was stunned. Like, I just, I don't know. Like, I couldn't believe that, like, anyone's parents would go on national television and, like, actually try to tear down a relationship with you and your fiancé. Did you know he was filming that conversation? I knew he was going to the Jersey Shore to film with his mom. and stepdad.

You didn't know it was going to be about you and your relationship. No, I mean, there's always like, of course there's always going to be like an aspect that's about your relationship. What else are they going to talk about? Yeah.

Right? But like, I didn't know it was going to be a conversation where they're convincing him to call off the wedding. That's what I didn't know about that conversation. Yeah. You know, it just seemed watching it back

like that that was kind of the turning point where him. Yeah. Where he was like, okay. Like, now I have to call. call off the wedding. You think that was it. You think that was a turning point. Mm-hmm. Today's episode is sponsored by the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program. I have a dog and, you know,

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Insurance is entered by either Independence American Insurance Company or United States Fire Insurance Company and produced by PTZ Insurance Agency Limited. The ASPCA is not an insurer and is not engaged in the business of insurance. This episode of Not Skin, but Not Fat, is brought to you by Huggy's Skin Essentials. So, first of all, if you're a parent, you know,

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Once again, head to Huggies.com to learn more. Did you imagine this conversation when he finally told you everything that they said? Could make him really doubt the- I think it's really important to have boundaries with family when it comes to your relationship. Like, I have boundaries with my parents. Like, you know, of course, if I ran to my dad and told him like every single time that we fought, of course my dad's going to be like, I don't know if you should be getting married. You know, but then again, like my dad would only be hearing my side of the story. Yeah. You know, like the problem, the real big problem I had with that whole conversation is that Lou was establishing his credibility as a minister. But that credibility of him as a minister was irrelevant in that moment. Because you're sitting there. saying as a minister, I talked to two people and as a part of a couple, but I hadn't heard from Lou. Right. Since Christmas, eight months prior. So you being a minister has nothing to do with this.

You're just giving advice to your stepson. Yeah. And, you know, I just, I thought that that was like, icky. I felt very icky about that. And Carl's mom always loved you when you were friends. Well, and then that was the other thing, right? Like, I was, like, I, keep in mind, I flew Sharon in season three, because Carl needed his mommy. I remember. I was always the one that, like, you know, was right there with Sharon whenever she needed to check on Carl during his, like, you know, drinking and partying days. She would text me, please can you check on Carl, like, I'm worried about him.

I haven't heard from him. And then I would have to be Carl's babysitter and report back to his mom. You know, Carl moved into my building. Whenever his mom would come visit, if Carl, like, was at work or doing something or traveling, I was the one, like, taking care of Sharon and Lou and helping them park their car. taking them to lunch, making sure that they were, you know, settled. And that was all before Carl and I were dating. Yeah.

You know, so I was not only there for Carl for literally the entire last eight years since way before we were dating, but I was there for Sharon, too. So it was really, really hurtful that you're just kind of forgetting all the things that I've done to support your son and give him safety. and, like, be his protector while you're in Pittsburgh and to help you and to help the family and be there for them. And then this is, this is what I get in return. It just felt like it just was really hurtful. So you're saying the breaking point was that conversation. It seemed that way, watching it back. What happened after that? Because after that, those last two weeks,

yeah. He was just so different. That's it. Like, I'm telling you in that breakup conversation, I'm just like, what happened in the last two weeks? Like, what happened? Like, his entire demeanor changed, his attitude changed. He was, like, really at that point, laying the groundwork and planting the seeds for, like, what he was going to do at the end of it. But did you, you're so smart, Lindsay. Were you seeing the seeds being planted? Were you ignoring them?

No, it was only after those last two weeks. It was all this fighting about his career and, like, career conversations he was having. And I just could not understand, like, why this was, like, so weird. He had no problems for literally the whole time I've ever known him eight years. He had no problems coming to me as a sounding board to talk about his career, right? Especially about lover boy. He had no problems complaining to me about how upset he was all the time with lover boy with Kyle, with his, you know, salary, with the fact that Kyle.

and Amanda would go, you know, do these press interviews and not even mention him, how, like, you know, everyone in the whole world thought he was a founder and a partner, but he was not. Yeah. He had no problem complaining to me all the time. And then, you know, even when he wanted to quit lover boy, like, you know, no problem, like, using me to, like, vent. Yeah. And then here we are, like, okay, now you want to, like, figure out the next step in your career,

10 months later and you had no problem doing that for the last eight months talking to me, but now here we are and all of a sudden, boom, out of nowhere, you have a problem with me asking questions. That doesn't make any sense to me. So what were you thinking at the time? And then he kept saying like, you need to change. You need to change. You need to be softer. You need to be more excited. You need to, you know, be happy and excited and proud of me and give me hugs and kisses and, like, softer. And I'm just like, what? Like, first of all, like, if you gave me a reason, you know, to be excited, like, if you made a decision, then I would be excited and we could celebrate and go to dinner and, like, you know, pop a non-alcoholic

bottle of champagne. Yeah. But you keep telling me that you are not, like, literally he told me about, like, the, the opportunity with the non-alcoholic liquor store, Wasan, that I presented to him, because I know the founders, he was like, oh, yeah, I met with them, but there's no open positions for me. Why am I getting excited about there being no open positions? Yeah. Okay, great. Then the only other opportunity he's talking about is lover boy. Which you know that he, like, struggled with. There were issues. Well, he literally told me at the alien party, he'd look.

like legit told me, and I wish they didn't cut this out, told me it was the worst four years of his life, that it was so emotionally and physically draining on him, so much so that he needed the last nine months to decompress from working at Loverboy for four years. So two weeks later, we're in the kitchen having this conversation. And of course, I'm going to be like, are you sure that that's what you want to do? Like, what's going to be a different working relationship between you and Kyle now versus the last time? Like, have you guys outlined that? You know, what are the, what's going to be the difference in, you know, the roles? Is there a salary or pay difference? Are you getting more equity for working on the non-alcoholic brand? Are you going to be

forced to travel and do promos at bars? Because that was a big thing Carl had complained to me about was like being around drunk people all the time and he's the sober one and every single week. And like, he's the one like out there on the streets promoting lover boy as if he was a founder and partner when, you know, he's sober and Kyle is sitting at home. Yeah. So, you know, I'm just asking all these questions based off of conversations that Carl had had with me. And all of a sudden, he's getting so, so, so defensive.

So was that an ad? And then telling me that I need to change. And I'm like, what is it that I need to change? Like, that's where I was, like, having a really tough time. Was this happening on camera and off camera? Like, was it consistent? No. I just, like, was so exhausted after those last two weekends.

I just didn't even talk to him during the week about anything serious. Really? It was just small talk. But the wedding was still on. I mean, I just figured, like, once he got, like, figured out whatever he wanted to do and, you know, we got through filming, that things would calm down and he would, like, you know, just settle down and, you know, take a deep breath and take a step back from, like, putting so much pressure on himself.

Yeah. And like he would make a decision at that point. So take me through the end of the summer that we see and then picking up the cameras back up. Like what happened between that? Those three days. Oh, it was only three days. Yeah, it was three days. Oh, it was three days.

Yeah, we left the, we left the Hamptons. We left the house on Sunday. And we got into a fight in the car on the way home. and he said some nasty things to me and then we just didn't talk for a couple of days and next thing you know the producers were like

okay we're coming to film and I was like what are we filming about? And they didn't tell you no they basically were like you guys kind of left the house weird on Sunday which is true we did

but he knew he knew what he was going to do and you had I had no idea I thought we were just going to like figure it out work through those that career conversation

yet again like Wait, you in your mind, Lindsay, we're going to fight for this relationship, get under the fucking get married. You were going to get married, put the ring on Mary Carl. Yeah. There was no doubt in your mind, even with the fighting and everything going on. I just thought that like, yeah, because, I mean, listen. You're not a giver up. I'm not a giver upper. People do say that about you. I am in it. And like, you have to keep in mind. Like, we were filming for a total of maybe like nine weeks over summer. Carl and I fought the first two weeks that we were in the house. And there was five. weeks in between that we were good. And then the last two weeks. Yeah. So it wasn't like all summer. I actually think Kyle and Amanda fought way more than me and Carl. Ours was just seemed more intense because we had more on the line. Like we, there was more at stake for us. You know. And, you know, so we really weren't like fighting all summer. But like, you know, yes, the first two weeks kind of gnarly. The last two weeks, super gnarly. But for me, it's like, what are you going to do, call off a wedding? Because you just fought with

your fiancee for two weeks. Right. No. Like no one does that. Like you committed to working through issues. Like there's going to be times in a relationship, especially when you're married, that like maybe you're not as intimate at certain points in time. That could last however long, months at a time, a year. You know, maybe you're not as you're not on the same page. Like, you know, your communication is just like you're missing each other communication wise. But your intimacy is great. Who knows? You know, there's different things. I mean, you can speak to this because. you're married for a hundred years, yeah, a while now. Like, I can't, I obviously can't. But, like, this is like a forever relationship. You committed to working through issues. You don't just give up because you just fought for two weeks at the beginning of summer and two weeks at the end of summer. So he sits you down and what's the reasoning that he gives? I mean, he, he, like, every reason under the book. It was like, you know, he was just, you know, pulling from the sky of, like, all these reasons.

And it's just like all of them are pretty unacceptable to me. Like there's, and, you know, like I said in that conversation, there's a million steps in between, hey, we're having communication breakdown surrounding your career conversations to 100, which is calling off the wedding. Right. There's like 15 steps in between that, you know, one in which includes don't cancel couples therapy to replace them with cameras in here to break up with me. Do you see a world in which?

Like he even admitted that like couples therapy was, you know, helping us get on the same age communication-wise, and then you cancel the couple's therapy to break up with me. And then asked me the next day to go to couples therapy. And I was like, are you out of your mind? After you film this? You literally canceled couples therapy yesterday, broke up with me on camera,

and then asked me today to go to couples therapy. There's no couple. You were done. Well, obviously. And he wasn't? So I'm trying to understand. If he broke up on camera with you, he never gave the option of postponing.

He never gave the option. like he didn't sit down like I sat down looking to repair like I spent the entire you know first five minutes of that conversation like apologizing for maybe you know making him feel less than or belittled because I was asking so many questions about his career opportunities and yeah I felt like my questions which are very valid adult questions that partners ask each other right before they get married and start their lives together and have children very valid questions as adults, you know, but he didn't see it that way. So I was like, okay, maybe me asking so many questions makes you feel less than or dumb or incapable. And I'm really sorry for that.

Yeah. So that was the first five minutes. And then I'm looking to repair. I'm like not walking in with like swords out. And he is just walking and looking to like bulldoze and be done. And that's what did. How long were you in the house together after? Like, did somebody move out right away? I immediately, I called my dad and I, and I, I started walking south. And I texted my girlfriend, the closest girlfriend who lives the closest to me. And thankfully, she was home. And the second, like, I just was, like, in shock. Like, what the hell just happened? Yeah. Like, this is the weirdest thing. Like, how do you just break up? Because you're, like, not on the same page about your career. Yeah. Like, this is so weird to me. Did you feel like it could be more? Like, maybe he doesn't love me anymore. Maybe he doesn't see a future.

I mean, I spent, like, following the breakup, I spent, like, those next two weeks just, like, in hiding, sitting in my apartment, like, with girl. And he was out? He, he... I don't know where he was. He went home to his mom. I want to ask you about that.

Him saying I'm best friends with my mom and taking, obviously, what she says, like, so seriously. When I saw in the episode that he was like, my mom is my best friend, I posted that day I was like, I was trying to understand, because I have a son, right? Yeah. So I'm like, would I want him to say I'm his best friend? Would I want to be his best friend? Because as a woman, I wouldn't want to marry someone that calls their mom their best friend,

but I didn't want to be a hypocrite. But then I realized, no, I don't want Noah to call me his best friend when he's 38 years old. I wouldn't call. I'm really close with my dad. Yeah. And, like, we share a lot with each other. when I share it with him and my stepmom, but I would never call my dad my best friend.

So is that, was that an ick, though? I mean, I just think that, like I said before, like I think that, you know, when it comes to your forever partner and your family, like there are boundaries

that you need to maintain. But you were willing to marry someone that didn't really have those boundaries. Well, did he say his mom's his best friend in a confessional? Yeah. Well, it's not like he was saying that to me over summer. Oh, yeah.

Okay, so he never said that to you. No, what he was doing is two weeks before the breakup posting all over Instagram about, like, let me, I'm just going to show this. I'm just going to pull up these receipts. I'm just going to pull up all these receipts. Well, what are their receipts? I have so many receipts. You got it. You got it. Is there a folder called receipts? Yeah. Okay. Obviously. And I never use them, which is so interesting. I just like them as like. A reminder to you if you start spinning. No. Oh, okay. Just in case. Okay. Worst case. I have easy access. just like this. Okay, August 9th. So the breakup was August 30th. Right? Yeah, August 30th. August 9th, he posted 100 days with like a bride and a groom. Countdown. emoji. A hundred days. Yeah. From our engagement photo. Yeah. August 11th, my birthday. He said, happy birthday to my beautiful fiance. Today, on your birthday, I want you to know how much I love you

and appreciate you. You are my rock, my partner, and my best friend. I love you, Lindsay Dale Hubbard. So that's August 11th, right? August 14th. Two weeks before. Two weeks before. You're going to make such a beautiful bride with like a hot sweating emoji. And this is like pictures from my bridal shop. Right.

So two weeks before, this guy is like doting all over Instagram about how he cannot wait to marry me, how he's so in love with me, like everything. And then two weeks later, he's calling off a wedding. But Lindsay, so explain it to me. I wish I could. That type of, like, explanation doesn't even exist in my mind, Amanda. If you guys are looking for an amazing, easy to get your hands on viral mascara, look no further than Lash Paradise by L'Oreal Paris. Okay, you guys, because Lash Paradise is such a good one, you can get it on Amazon, by the way. And it just is so good.

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were different than? He was only concerned about his public image. He was only concerned about like he in those three weeks, he never once asked me like, are you okay? Like, would you have answered him? Did you block him? I didn't, I didn't block him. But the only things he texted me about were about his public image from what the internet was saying and attempting to go to a couple's therapy after he had canceled the couple's therapy to break up with me. He was concerned about his public image. I'm assuming he wasn't asking like, Lindsay, are you okay? Like, you know, he wasn't calling any of my friends to even check on me to be like, is she saying

with you? Have you heard from her? Like, I wasn't eating. I wasn't keeping anything down. I couldn't like my body was just like the anxiety it just was out of control legit and I don't even think I didn't really like get my appetite back for like three months like until like Thanksgiving I was like eating for survival to be honest but like at no point in those three weeks is he like are you okay I am so sorry like that this like wound up becoming such a shitstorm and

that the whole world found out within 30 minutes of it happening. But first you have to deal, but you have to deal with two things, Lindsay. You had to deal with him breaking up with you. And there's the element that's really important and breaking the fourth wall and whatever of calling producers and putting it on putting your engagement breakup on a camera, which I'm sure made you angry. Well, yeah. I mean, there's like a lot of like back and forth about that.

And we discussed it at the reunion. So you'll. you'll be able to see that at the reunion. Okay. But that was, I mean, when he's concerned with you about public image. Okay, but Amanda, here's the thing. When you are at this level of relationship, you've been best friends for however many years. You are engaged.

There is a certain level of like love and respect for you to call anybody to check on you. And make it public before you're telling your own fiancé, that is fucked up. That is fucked up. Like, why not take that time and, like, have this very serious conversation in couples therapy that was scheduled for that day where you're like, look, I really am feeling like we need to take a step back. Where was that respectful conversation with me? Right.

Before you're inviting the whole world to this conversation. Well, that's why the public image thing I'm sure he was concerned about because maybe he thought Lindsay does. get sometimes the bad guy edit or the loud one or the one that, you know, yells and argues and I'll be okay and people. But then the tide had almost immediately turned when we found out the way that he did it. Everyone was like, doesn't matter what happened, that's fucked up. Well, as you can see in that conversation and all of these conversations, I didn't raise my voice. I didn't get activated. I wasn't the loud one. You know, like, and I just, I think it backfired on It really did.

The question is, could you have had an amicable breakup if it wasn't this way? If you're, like, in the public eye, yeah, you have a conversation between the two of you, and then the two of you figure out how to unravel it publicly together. Yeah. You create a joint statement that you, you know, you release as a team. You figure out what you're going to do about all the wedding expenses that you've already paid, the deposits, the apartment that- Who had to figure it out?

Was it all you? I told him I was absolutely not figuring out the fallout of the wedding. Like, you canceled this. Put on your big boy pants and figure it out yourself. So did he? I said, and I texted my wedding planner and the two wedding planners, like one who was dealing with the hotel and reservations and one who was dealing with all the vendors and actual planning.

And I said, please do not communicate with me about any of this. You can communicate with Carl since this was his decision. and he and whatever he did that's on him and like your did you have any deposits of your own money i lost i lost 25 to 30 thousand dollars in wedding deposits before the cancellation now he had to pay a lot of cancellation fees especially since he waited so long to call up the wedding and you know the longer you wait with the hotel and the rooms like the less money you get back if you cancel the wedding like once you're 90 days out would you're responsible for 50% of the rooms once you're 90 days out.

Would you want them to pay you back what you lost? Yeah, we dealt with a lot of, there was a lot of lawyer. Really? Lawyer discussions. So when's the last time you spoke to him as of today? At the reunion. Really? And you saw, you were in the same wedding in Portugal, no?

Yeah. And if you see each other, what happens? We just, I, I mean, avoid each other. Like, really? You know, weddings are, they're not like intimate settings. You're not like, they're not. to see you together. And these are like all of our mutual friends. You know what I mean? So this is bound to happen more? A hundred percent. And how do you feel about it?

I just, he's just like another guy in the room. Oh, that's it? Yeah. You're shut off. Yeah. No, I think that like the way it all happened for me is pretty unforgivable. Like, I'm not denying that I definitely pretty quickly came to the conclusion like this was the best decision that could have been made for me. And that came like probably within the first, like month that that like this was the best decision that where you're saying we're almost thankful it happened 100% yeah because I realized how many red flags and blinders I had on now with that said like it's easy to turn off emotions when it's this level of betrayal like the way he did it I don't think I will ever forgive yeah like I just think that that is the most disrespectful thing now I get it

We film a TV show. Like, this is, we put our lives on TV. But I thought that our relationship was beyond TV. I didn't think it was just for show. Do you think it was for him, for show? I don't know. I don't know. I just think that.

I mean, I will say. You would think that our relationship was beyond, like that. It meant more than to do what he did. Well, that's why everybody kind of turned, you know, almost immediately before we even saw the breakup. and we heard that the cameras were picked up and he made the call, I feel like audiences immediately were like, that's like there's no way that's acceptable,

no matter what happened. Even if, because then the narrative that was coming against that was, well, maybe he did it because he was so scared that Lindsay would, you know, create another narrative he wanted it filmed. But like, we're not going to see anything else. Like, the filming isn't helping his case, Create another narrative.

He's been created other narratives all season long. Behind your back. Behind my back. Yeah. He's the one who's like, I'm so scared to talk to Lindsay. And then when he talks to me, I'm like totally chill. Or like comes to the bed, calls you beautiful, gives you kisses when you're still sleeping. And then goes and talks shit about me.

And then goes and has conversations where you can tell as an audience member. I remember my husband was sitting down to watch with me, which like Summerhouse is kind of the only show. They'll sit down and be like, oh, what's going on? And I remember he literally at that scene with the dinner. and that he had the conversation with Kyle Amanda and then he was like, wait, he's not in it anymore but he's not telling her that. Like it was really wild to watch

and it sucks that such a long friendship couldn't have ended with him having a conversation with you off camera, you figuring it out together. Or let's just give me a heads up. Like have a conversation with me and then be like, look, like we're going to have to do this on camera but out of respect for our eight years of friendship, you know, I wanted to tell you before bringing, making this super public. Like,

have any semblance of respect. Do you have any sadness over losing him as a friend? I did in the beginning. But I went from, like, being like, oh my God, I feel like I know Carl better than he knows himself to like, do I even know this guy? Because this is like behavior that is scary for someone to be capable of doing something like that. Yeah. So, you know, I talk to my therapist and, you know, obviously tremendously a lot in the, especially in the beginning, but there were times where I was like, I miss him as a friend and she was like, but it's not the person you thought you knew. Right. So you're missing somebody you don't know anymore. Do you think he's struggling now? You don't know. I don't know. I'm sure he wants the

world to think that he is, you know, because he loves to play victim, but I don't know. I don't talk to him. I don't see him. I don't, I avoid him. You avoid him. Are you dating? I am. Were you actively dating? Did you meet this guy by the bye? What can you tell us? Yeah.

What do you mean? Was they actively dating? Were you like trying to date? Were you on apps? No, God. I wasn't on apps. Like I definitely started dating, I wouldn't say, probably in like November. Yeah, it makes sense.

It's been almost a year. If you think about it since I breakup. Yeah, almost a year. But also like, here's the thing. those wouldn't have been wasted years like had we you know continued on and planned like to

get married and have kids but then all of a sudden when everything happened and everything was blown up those were now lost years and those were like really critical years I'm not the type of girl are you upset about the

like I'm not going to sit on my couch at 37 years old like I gotta keep it moving yeah time is ticking you know like yeah you have and you've always had I like did you know I I really just like spent the first two full months like just with my head down feeling every emotion there was to feel like really like working through the healing process. And then after that just being like I'm putting myself out there.

So how did you going out and stuff? Yeah. I just started going on trips. I was like fuck New York men. Like I am so over New York men. I'm going to find a real man. Wait, is that? So I started going to Nashville. Okay. I was like, started going to Nashville, finding some cowboys who like, Wait, are you dating a cowboy? You know, like move hay around and work on farms and shit. Yeah. Like, give me a real fucking man, you know, so. So is he a cowboy in Nashville?

I, like, pulled around with a couple of, of cowboys, but. Any of the Montana boys? No, Montana. No. Oh, I know. Kristen's got that cover. Yeah. No, but then there was a guy who I had dated, like, three or four years. years ago. And we went on like three or four dates back in like 2020. And he popped back up in

December. And I was like, oh, last from the past this guy. Do we know him? You guys don't know him. Okay. But I went on three or four dates with him, you know, three or four years ago. And then it just was bad timing for him. It was bad timing for him, bad timing for me. We were each like, you know, kind of going in opposite directions at that time. And then he popped back up this past December. we started dating in January. Oh, so it's been a minute. And he's a New York man. And he's a New York man. But he's not. A different kind of New York man?

Yeah, he's not a little bit. Are you going to expose, are you going to reveal him to us? I don't know. Really? Yeah. I mean, look where that's gotten me in the last eight years of my life. Right. I was going to ask you, like, do you think does filming the show and being on reality TV have anything to do with, you know, the breakup with Carl? I know, with other guys, I'm sure it impacted stuff too. Do I think, like filming a show if that, like, hindered your relationship. I think it puts pressure, you know, like we, we feel a lot of pressure as it is and, you know, in relationships, especially in dating.

Yeah. When you're not quite like married for years and have a full understanding of each other. I think, yeah, I mean, I think, yes, a reality show puts pressure on a relationship for sure. And I think in some cases, it's like. maybe helpful. Like, it was probably helpful that, like, this reality show saved me from a lot of heartache and, you know, a hard, tough road ahead for myself. Yeah. You know, but, and I'm able to say that now, right? But I think in other situations, you know, it's, it's the downfall. I think you can use me as an example where it's both, right? Where it's both. So you think you would think hard and long

before kind of involving another guy. I've always been like so open. Yeah. I've always. shared every inch and part of my body and soul and heart and life with the show from every single relationship that I've had over the last eight seasons to, you know, family trauma, to childhood, you know, trauma to my career, to my, you know, friendship dynamics and getting accidentally pregnant and having a miscarriage. Right. It'd be hard not to. You know, I've always shared everything. But is that working for my personal romantic life to like keep sharing these romantic relationships?

I don't know. Maybe I'll pull, you know, a page and like kind of keep it at arm's length. Yeah. You haven't decided yet. I haven't decided yet. And also do we know what's happening this summer with filming and stuff? No. We don't know. We don't know. Yep, summer is here. Very weird to be saying that because it was just thunderstorming in New York,

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How did you feel about the girls, finally, I would say, fucking, you know, giving you a big hug and being there for you and being a place where you can vent and talk. Like, that happened this summer. I felt like they gave me more space and like a non-judgmental space to open up to them. Whereas I feel like the summer before and so many summers and seasons before, like they were always so hard on me and judging me for every single thing that I've ever done. I don't know. They saw something else. I don't know what happened. But they, you know, they were more open to hearing my side of like, you know, whatever was going on in my life. And they were really supportive. And it was honestly, like it was, I'm so happy that I had the girls last summer. Are they still supportive in that? I mean, we all got so busy. Like, obviously in the fall, I was throwing myself, you know, in every other city and state known to man, you know, and then holidays and then whatever. So we kind of were, we went to like one dinner, but then everyone's all over the place in the off season.

But they do seem to be Team Lindsay is what we kind of get in from the summer. I mean, I think that they're like team both. This is like a hard one to have teams on because they've known us each for the same amount of time. Yeah. You know, so it's really difficult, but, you know, I think. But they were there for you throughout the summer that we see for sure. They were. And Danielle, first of all, she's the one that kind of confirmed that you're dating someone.

Oh, yeah. I mean, kind of. Like, I had gone on Watch It Happens Live and said I, yeah, it was someone special at the wedding. So I think that's. But she also did. Yeah. And she also made kind of a jab about like, like sex with curl. Danielle.

She kind of said, like, well, yeah. dated Carl, like, it was insinuating kind of that he's not a very sexual person, maybe. Is that true? I mean, I discussed it over summer. Yeah. You did. Were you worried about him seeing that? No. No, because, like, I was, like, talking about our sex life. Like, I wasn't reading his performance or my performance. In fact, in that conversation with Paige and Amanda in my room, where Paige was, like, asking me, a bunch of questions. I even said, but when we do have sex, it's amazing. You did say that. You know, so I wasn't like, that 2.5 rating, like, wasn't, it was rate your sex life, not, you know, not give a rating to the other person's performance. Right. And to be honest,

at the point, like, we really weren't having that much sex. So how do you rate a sex life when you're not having that much sex? Yeah. You know what I mean? So you said before, like, you had to give yourself closure because you don't have the answers. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I found all the answers. I got the answers for myself. What can you share with us? Like, what are the answers? I just, I, I think as, I don't know if he's fully prepared. I think he committed and loved as much as he's capable. But I don't think he has a full understanding of like what being an adult in an adult relationship really takes, you know, and the type of partnership that you need to have before you start adding children. And, you know, like this was only the beginning. So.

If he was overwhelmed and couldn't handle the beginning, then, like, you know, I think that was going to be tough. He has a lot of figuring himself out to do, it seems like. I think so. Not that we all don't. I, of course, like, I'm not perfect. I always have things to work on that I continue to work on, you know, all the time. But, you know, I think I have a pretty good understanding of, like, what it takes to be in an adult relationship, you know. and put an effort in.

Yeah. And not give up. There's a rumor that someone from Summerhouse is pregnant. Can you confirm or deny? I mean, these rumors are insane. I mean, sometimes they're not just rumors, you know? Yeah, I guess. Where there's smoke.

Yeah, no, I'm not pregnant. They said it about Amanda, like back in March. No, they're saying someone from the cast. Oh, I don't know. You don't know. Wait, is this too? I don't think that. I was just with Amanda.

in Portugal and Mexico. Oh, you're like it could only be Amanda. Maybe it's somebody else. Who else would it be besides me or Amanda? Wait, is this guy that you're dating now, you think he's like the real deal? I mean, it's getting pretty serious. Yeah? Yeah.

Like, we've been dating since January, so he's incredible. He's like he really is. How old is he? He's two years younger than me. I mean, it's not like a thing. Yeah. No, it's not a thing. Yeah.

No, but I love it. Yeah? Yeah. That keeps me young. Keeps you young. You didn't go to Gabby's birthday. Oh, yeah. I saw people saying this.

Yeah. Okay. Again, people are insane. Yeah. I had plans for months, actually, to meet my man's parents because they, for months now, have planning to come to town. Gabby sent out her birthday invites three days ahead of time. So I told her immediately,

like, hey, would love to come. Yeah. But I am meeting the parents, and this has been in the books for months now. Okay. So, yeah, there was no. So there was no. I love Gabby. Okay.

We hang out all the time. I actually hang out with her more than anyone. But Carl went. But that had nothing to do with you not going. Nope. So Hubhouse PR, you moved on from it, right? You're not in it anymore. No, I stopped doing PR when COVID hit.

Like, you can't really do hospitality PR and promote restaurants when. no one's going to the restaurant. Right. And at that point in time, like, all my clients came back and they were like, okay, we're ready to do PR again, but we don't have a budget. And I was like, no, you know, like I can't work for free. Yeah. And that was also COVID, you know, pandemic times was right around the time where like, you know, brands and influencers really started to ramp up. So I just leaned in to being Lindsay from Summerhouse. And, you know, I realized that I was making more money doing that than from PR anyway. So obviously, like, what are you going to do? You're going to prioritize what's bringing in more money. But, yeah, like, PR as an industry in general has changed so

much. Today, PR is different. It's so different, Amanda. Like, I used to have to, like, write so many creative press releases and pitches and convince the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal why they had to, you know, feature my brand and my client on the cover of the style section or you know, on the cover of a magazine and, you know, really just like creative writing. And it just isn't like that anymore. It isn't like that anymore. Like now you get an influencer to go like where, where you're, you know, shirt or sit in your restaurant and post about it.

And like, it's just not as, it's not challenging. It's not, it's just different. What about the hub house, Nashville? Yeah. So I bought a house. From here or there. I really, like, started making up for lost time. Like last year, I spent the entire year planning a wedding and then that was a fucking bust. Yeah. So then I was like, all right, well, time to go

make money. So I bought a house in Nashville and it was like such a quick turnaround. Like even my like rental property manager was like, this is insane. Like I hustled for three straight months to make sure that like I got this thing up and running right before and right in time of like, like the high season for rentals in Nashville. And people can Airbnb at, like on Airbnb. Yeah. You can go on Airbnb and go on Hubhouse Nashville.com. No, it's incredible.

Like, I love it there. And, you know, it's just, it's so comfortable. Wait, do you stay there when it's not rented out or no? You stay somewhere else. I was when in February, when I got it set up, I stayed there for 10 days, like, while I was getting it all installed and set up. And then I went back for two days in March. I need to make it back there at some point soon.

But I have to, like, literally go on my portal and see what dates are not taken because it's booked every week. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's doing really well. I want to go, like, surprise somebody and be like, hi. That would be cool.

If you know, especially, like, what kind of event is there. Right. Like, put in a note that it's like a bachelette or a birthday. Yeah, I need to figure out. Like, just have the TV turn on with like, hi. Bravo. Oh, yeah. Not just you, like a message from you.

Are there any things of you in the house? Yeah, I have a confessional room. Stop. I swear to God, with like a green screen in the back. No, I'm dead. And then in the confess, that's the only room that's sort of like my little room where like pictures of me, different years on Summer House, you know, different like posters season posters.

Are you going to open hub houses in other cities? I don't know yet. You know, Nashville was just such an easy fit. It was very turnkey for me. I have a longtime friend of like 13 years who runs a rental property management business. So I trust him and his team. I have a lot of friends in Nashville. And it's just an easy flight from New York.

So like I really, you know, the whole Nashville thing was just so easy. I don't know. If I did, I would either probably go to like Florida or Austin. Okay. Wherever there's like other, you know, big group trips. Yeah. I love that. I need to figure out. I think you should do more cities.

Yeah. A few other questions I don't want to have you leave without getting answers to. Carl's mom brought up Lauren. Oh, yeah. Why did she bring up work as? I mean, you're asking the wrong person. But was that a low blow? Was that below the belt?

Was that? I don't know why that would be the first instinct to like bring up your son's ex-girlfriend and that she said you would be a great mother-in-law. Yeah. like that to me is just like what yeah did his mom reach out ever no wow and that was really disappointing because once again like it went beyond just like future mother-in-law like did our any of our relationship mean anything like what did i do here like what did i do to hurt your son i did nothing i didn't break up with him i'm not the one who leaked it to the media i'm not the one like

and then you just don't say anything to me. The first phone call my dad made within seconds after I got off the phone with him on that last episode right after the breakup, my dad immediately got off the phone with me and called Carl. What, see how he is?

Immediately. Wow. Because he just, that's what a dad dies. That's what a parent does. It's like, okay, like, I wasn't involved. I don't get involved.

Like, your life is your life. But now I need to figure out, like, what happened here? That's crazy. And how I can help, like, and how I can help. Never heard from sharing. First of all, then I do, I mean, obviously, this goes without saying that you dodge a bullet, dodge a bullet.

Wait, you went to Ariana's Chicago show. Did you guys bond over dodging bullets? Dodging Bravo bullets? So I saw Ariana at BravoConnor in November, which was like two months after my breakup. And once she saw me, she gave me a big hug. and I think it was like unspoken, just an unspoken understanding between the two of us. That was sort of that sentiment right there that, you know, dodging bullets and moving on and being better for it. And being better for it.

But yeah, no, I went to her show at Chicago. She's so busy like before and after those shows that you don't have that. You have very limited amount of time. And I love Ariana. I was just at lunch with her and Katie a couple of weeks ago, too. So, yeah. Well, it's fun to see you girls like truly. coming out on the other side.

Another thing, we talked about the girls being, you know, giving you a big hug this season and everything. But Paige and Amanda also said, regardless of Carl, that they get your side of the Danielle drama now because they kind of got to see that side of Danielle when it comes to judging other people's relationships and, like, maybe projecting a little, how did that make you feel? Do you think Danielle projects at all? I think Danielle gets caught up in the moment, right? And especially when she's, like, drinking, she's less focused.

on, you know, other people's feelings around her and is just a little bit more direct, you know, whether you want her to be or not. I think in regards to, like, Amanda and Paige saying they understand where I was coming from now from last summer, like, that's great. Yeah. I wish that they gave me any opportunities last summer last season to, like, try to see my side at that point. They were so unwilling.

Yeah. To see my side last summer. in last season. I mean, of course, validation is always nice to hear. Yeah. And, you know, you got to take it whenever and however you can get it. Right. But it's just like at that point, I think we were all just so over. Yeah. Like we were all kind of in a good place. We were. I, you know, our schedules like haven't really seen her too much. I saw her at the reunion. But we're, everyone's just kind of doing their own thing. Yeah. Okay. Quick, quick questions over here. What's going on between Sierra and West?

You'll find out at the reunion. Okay. Who is a bigger fuckboy? Danielle or Jesse? Jesse. Who has better style, Amanda or Paige? They're so different, like such different styles.

Like, it's like comparing apples to oranges to bananas. Who would be your inspo more so? Probably Amanda. Like, the Jersey, Florida, like, more casual. Who's more likely to get naked? You or Kyle? Kyle.

I mean. I guess Kyle. I mean, how many times have you seen his ass on this every season of summer house? I started going to the bathroom to just change clothes. You know what? I couldn't believe that Carl in one of the episodes, a few episodes ago, when you're having the conversation in the kitchen and that orange dress, your nipple was out and I didn't tell you the whole conversation.

Oh, when I was wearing that like pink cover up and my bathing suit underdives and they were blurring. I don't know what they were blur. Like, I don't know. Yeah, I think my boob slipped out of my bathing suit underneath that pink cover out. Completely. Yeah. And I was like, wait, did they blur it out? Yeah. Okay, yeah. I think I know what you're talking about. But I was like, but Carl was right there. Like, how didn't he tell her? Um, who's a better friend? Gabby or Danielle? At this moment, I would say Gabby. She really like sits and like gets in the trenches and like works through so much like emotions with me. Who's a better partner? Kyle or Craig?

Partner? Yeah, to their, like, woman. I would say Craig. Craig. I don't know too much about their relationship, but from what it sounds like. Who's a better addition to the cast, West or Jesse? God, they're both so good. They're both so good.

They're in such a different ways. That's true. I mean, I'm going to be a little biased. I brought West in, so I'll say West. Okay, cool. Who was, is there anybody would want to bring back from past seasons? Ooh. Oh, my God.

I don't know. I think. Lauren. I think Stephen McGee can stir up some drama. Okay. God, there's got to be someone else, too. No, but these are really good ones in a long time, like that really fit in. Yeah, I'm trying to think of all the fallen soldiers.

I guess not the work this is. No. Yeah, let's just throw Stephen McGee to stir up some drama. Which of your current cast members other than Carl would you not want back if anybody? Would I not want back if anybody? Probably a meet. He was just like... Who?

Exactly. Who? Yeah, he didn't bring anything to the table. Wait, who did you say? A meet. A meat from season two. Remember that guy? Oh, okay.

We went way back. Yeah, but it's way more pressure on us to like pick up, you know, the pieces for somebody who's not performing. Okay. Do you think Paige and Craig will get married? I do. You do? Yeah, but on her timeline.

Yeah. What's your sandwich order? Okay, so I love a good toasted Italian. I'm obsessed with Italian sandwiches. Like salami. Yeah, like, you know, salami, ham, banana peppers. Like banana provolone, lettuce, onion, tomato. Okay. Yeah, toast that shit.

Mm, so good. But there is a place called Picnic Basket here in New York, and they have this incredible roast beef sandwich that I love. Okay. So much. Yeah. And oh, have you ever had Wolf Nights? Oh my God. I did. They're so good. It's very interesting. It's like obscure. Yeah. It's very obscure. I had it. Weirdly I had it. Yeah. And it's very interesting. Very interesting. Yeah. But there's like just like Jersey Mikes and pot belly. Like just like the typical kind of chain ones. You are a sandwich girl. That didn't change. Yeah. No. I'm like I'm actually going to L.A. and something about her. I mean, this will come up. after. Yeah, they're opening.

Yeah, they're opening. So you're going to see it. Yeah. Okay, cool. Well, thank you for coming on. Thanks for having me. Good luck with everything. Thank you. And you too. And I'm really glad that you're doing well. You look really great. You look like you're living your life and thriving. Good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Not Skinny, but Not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny but Not Fat. Subscribe to the podcast. We don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast. you love so much on Apple Podcasts and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocheroo.

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