Not Skinny But Not Fat - LOVE IS BLIND'S LAUREN O'BRIEN ON DAVE, HIS SISTER, AND FEELING SLUT SHAMED

Episode Date: March 25, 2025

Lauren O’Brien joins us to break down all the drama—her relationship with Dave, the truth about feeling slut-shamed, and whether she ever seriously considered walking down the aisle. She also spills on Dave’s friends—did they really refuse to meet her? Plus, she reveals she secretly dated one of her pod runner-ups after the show… and even told Dave about it! How did he react? Tune in to find out!This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.If you like your money, Mint Mobile is for you. Shop plans at mintmobile.com/notskinny.Head to http://primalkitchen.com/notskinnypodcast to save 20% off your next online order with code NOTSKINNY at checkout. Primal Kitchen products are also available in stores nationwide, so visit primalkitchen.com/notskinnypodcast to find a location near you!For a limited time, HomeChef is offering my listeners 18 Free Meals PLUS Free Dessert for Life and of course, Free Shipping on your first box! Go to HomeChef.com/NOTSKINNY.FX’s Dying for Sex. All episodes streaming April 4th on Hulu.For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from Quince. Go to Quince.com/notskinny for 365-day returns, plus free shipping on your order.Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to the Not Skinny Bonafat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch, and I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars from my very own podcast, where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. a whirlwind of a week. I needed this. I needed this. You know, when you're just like feeling down and you need something. Like you need an exciting offer. You need a cool email. You need a surprising phone call. Okay, that's a lie. When is a phone call? Like an unsolicited phone call? Ever exciting. I was just like down and out. I was feeling, I was feeling, I needed a win. I needed a win. sometimes you need you need a little boost and it came it came in the form of a letter okay in the

form of a letter i was in my bedroom i believe and my husband had just brought like the the packages and and the mail up and he was like he was like i think you got a letter like and he gives it to me and i and i see it and i see like an m on it or whatever and i And I'm just like, did it come with anything? Like, was it in a box? Like, did it come with a gift? Like, is it an influencer package? Like, what, what is this?

No, it's just like this letter here. I opened it. I don't know what it says. Ripped it. Ripped it open. To be fair, I would have ripped it more aggressively because I'm more aggressive than, than husband. So let's forgive him.

But I was like, what? Like, okay. And I'm like reading it. And I'm literally shocked. I could read it because I suck a reading script, but I, but I read it. And, and, and, and, and, and I was like, wait, wait, what? And I thought it was like a joke because a lot of the time, not a joke, but like, I thought it maybe was like part of some PR thing because a lot of the time when you get PR, let's say, like, from Pooge, it'll say like love Courtney and you're not, you can't be sure

Courtney wrote it or Paris Hilton does a fucking collab with like Walmart. And it's like, thought you would enjoy my pans, Paris. And it's like, Paris doesn't even know this deal is happening. This wasn't that kind of situation. Dear Amanda, I heard you were feeling scared. Don't be. This is the best part. Let's enjoy it.

As ever, Meg. And which does it say Meg? It's like the signature. Dated March 2025, the most beautiful handwriting you've ever seen your life. I'm reading it. I'm reading it over. I'm just like, what? Then I see the crown on the M, the little monogram.

And I'm like, this is Megan fucking Markle. Excuse me, Sussex. And it started all clicking. I was like, what is this? And then I was like, wait, I posted when the trailer for With Love Megan came out, I posted that I am scared for Megan. I posted that I'm scared because we know how people fucking hate on her. and the trailer for the cooking show was giving it is possible for people to make fun of this,

which they did end up doing. They did end up saying, you know, she puts the pretzels in bags and whatever. And that's what I was fearful of. And I even remember many of the comments after me saying, like, I'm worried for Megan. I'm scared if you're going to come for her. A lot of people were coming for me being like, why you bring negativity? Like, she used to do this. She did the tig.

this is upper alley. And I remember even being happy and posting like, oh my God, I'm so happy. Like, look at all these stands. Maybe I'm wrong. Look, people are coming for her at her defense and saying like, why are you worried? And even coming for me where I wasn't like, I might have had like a little snark. But it was mainly like, no, I'm actually scared for her. This looks like another thing people can destroy. you fast forward to fast forward fast fucking forward to Tuesday Tuesday to Tuesday to Wednesday when I get this letter I put two and two together you're welcome my smart brain and I say oh my God she's referencing the video that I made about her thing oh my God oh my God I wasn't even taking it as snark at the beginning then the internet once I posted it was like oh my

God, she's being snarky. She's having humor. I literally took it as like, oh, babe, don't be scared. Which honestly, I could see Megan Markle doing because, like, that's her vibe. Like, I don't know that snark and, like, that kind of thing is her vibe, which I would love for her. And I'm so happy people are taking it as that and loving her for that. But I have a strong feeling. It was like, she thought I was scared. And she's like, don't be scared, my love. Like, that's how I'm taking it. I don't know. I wonder. I feel like I should do a poll. Anyway, obviously, this is a huge, hugging deal. I then really did my try to, like, get myself connected to people who might know what is going on. And I did. And it was verified to me that the letter was indeed written by Megan and that she, it was her idea when she heard about this video. She was told about this

video or sent this video. And she was like, oh, she said like, oh, that's, so kind. She's scared. Like, I swear to God, you guys. She was like, that's so kind. She's scared. And, and I should send her a note. Like, she wanted to send the note. She sent the fucking note. This is fucking real life. I don't think I'm getting it yet. It's one of those things where, like, I'm getting it, but I'm not getting it. Like, I'm excited, but I don't think I get the, like, she literally had the idea to write this note, wrote the note. I now have a note for Megan Mark girl. Like, that's crazy. She would yell at me. Oh, my God. Megan Sussex. Very exciting day for me. It obviously blew the fuck up.

up like because everything she does like blows the fuck up, you know, different outlets took it differently. Some were like she was snarking at the amazing, beautiful, talented Gorgina podcaster Amanda Hirsch, we're not seeing what about. Some were like taking it like she has just a sense of humor. You know, either way I feel like a sense of humor has to play into this, right? Because it's or maybe not. Or if she's literally taking it a face value and is like, oh, she's scared. I'm going to tell her not to be scared. Like, I don't know. I don't know from what I'm understanding.

That's the vibe. Okay. If there's snark, I still fucking love it. If there's like humor, I love it. If she's, you know, I, I would love anything. I honestly love anything. And I love that she even did this. And I feel like it does lean into like her whole brand of writing notes and spreading flowers and sprinkling flowers and tagging the pretzels.

Like it all works into this. But it is, I will. say very, very thoughtful, right? It's like a thoughtful thing, which again is like her her brand. But again, Megan, like I want the jam. I want you to come in the pod. Like let's take this relationship to that. Mama. Anyway, let me calm down. Let me come down. Let me come down. It was a big, exciting week for me. On today's pod, we're moving right along. You guys, we're moving right along. So this season of love is blind. You know, there's a lot to say about the season. A lot to say about Minneapolis, lots to say about the dudes, lots to say about it all. At least we got

one couple, right? I feel like it's nice. Like, we got a couple. Like, thank the love is blind gods. Like, thank the Vanessa and Nicolichet gods. Like, they're happy. Vanessa Leje is happy. She's like, oh, my God. I feel like there has to be one couple of season, right? It has to. So we have Taylor and Daniels super cute, but the really, really, really wild part of the season and the one that made us scratch our heads and just be so frustrated and angry. were Lauren and Dave, Dave, Dave, the sister obsession, the weird obsession with the guy that she hooked up with before the show, like, what is up with you? What is wrong with you? So I had to talk to Lauren. Lauren O'Brien is so cool. She's smart. She's a hard worker. She's a cool chick that deserved better than this dude that was like basically slut shaming her in a way or his fat ego couldn't get over the fact that she hooked up with the dude before she met him. Just mind-boggling. So I needed to talk to Lauren.

I needed to see what her take was on this. So she's on the show today. And here's a conversation. So enjoy. Well, how are you? I'm good. I'm good. I'm busy.

Honestly, maybe or like mostly with work stuff. But this has been a fun added part of my busy schedule too. So like when work stuff, you mean your real job. My real job. Which is educational sales. Yes. Okay. Yes.

and have you started diving into the social media world of stuff? A little bit. Like I do feel like I kind of went from posting like twice a year for my friends and family to now being like, okay, if I want to actually dive into that, I probably need to post more than biannually. So I've been trying to, but then it's just kind of like setting aside certain times of my day to do that and then making sure I'm not doing that during. Like, I just need to really, like, black off my calendar.

Oh, wow. Okay. So you're a busy gal. I actually love, first of all, you updated your, your bio on Instagram, too. I cry and say like a lot, which I didn't even like. Well, I say like a lot, too. So I'm not, I'm not the girl. I'm not the girl to come for you for the likes.

But people came for you for the likes. I mean, I honestly, I feel like we're all our own worst critics. Like, I noticed it more than anyone. And even before. watching the episodes. I remember asking production, like, do you guys have me crying in every scene? Because I did cry a lot. Like, I had so many tears of frustration throughout that entire thing, which you see, and there's even moments where they probably didn't even include some other crying times. So I think it was more to, like, I was being a little more

harsh on myself, but people have commented on me saying like a lot. I say, um, a lot. I say, yeah, a lot. I'm a really active listener, apparently. Well, the tears, or like, the tears that you had were so, like, made me feel so much when watching you because they, they weren't the streaming tears. Most of the time, they were the, I'm going to try so hard to not cry. But your eyes just welled up and were, like, sparkly all the time. Like, you were having conversations and I just felt you in those moments because it was like, I know those tears where you're trying not to, which if, If I was you, my lips would start going. Like, I wouldn't, it wouldn't just be the eyes.

I'd be like, like, I'd start looking at two. So for you, that didn't happen. But, yeah, I think frustration seems to be the right word because, like, can you try to describe where you were feeling in those moments where we did see you, your eyes welling up? Like, was frustration the main word? Like, what else was going on? Yeah, I just felt like so, I don't even know if misunderstood is a better one. But, like, I felt like I wasn't being listened to.

And I felt like I was trying to get my point across in so many different ways and trying to explain the same thing, like, multiple times in order to get into his head to try to figure out what the fuck was going on. And so it was just moments of, like, I've never felt so unheard before. And I, I've never felt like so bad at communicating before. Like, I think I was more just being hard on myself. Like, am I not doing this right? Am I not explaining things in a way that makes sense?

Is, am I wrong? I don't know. I just, I was so in my head and, like, not being able to come to a resolution was so frustrating. And so I think that's where so. You wanted, yeah, you wanted a salulu. Like, you wanted to have a conversation, get to a point, have the sister fucking want to meet you, have the friends listen.

And every conversation ended with just. no resolution, which I'm sure, like you said, that frustrating is, but let's back up. Let's back up. Okay. How did you, Lauren, from Minneapolis, get on the show from the get?

Yeah. I mean, so I've been a fan of the show for years. Like, I've literally watched every season. I've been obsessed. I'm just like a big reality TV fan to begin with. But it was one of those things that, like, it was very, I personally never would have saw myself in that position,

but the beauty of this show is that it is by city. So it literally just came up and they do these casting calls like on Instagram. And so it was like casting call for probably a three or four different cities. And one of them is Minneapolis. And I was like kind of fresh off of a breakup at the time. It was one of those things that I don't know, I was kind of like a known single friend. And it came up at multiple brunch tables like over the course of a month or so.

and I kind of applied not like as a joke but just like truly not thinking anything would ever come from this because it just felt so like distant and I didn't hear from them for like six months and so I remember a few months after I applied I was like well I probably didn't get picked didn't even get a call back and then six months later they had texted and it kind of just started the conversation and I don't know one of those things that the it just kept kind of moving along to the next step. And there were little times where I had to stop and be like, okay, do I actually want to pursue this? Is this actually something that I could see myself doing? But it almost got to a point that it was like, okay, it's the universe. It's in the universe's hands now.

I'm going to let them decide if I should be doing this or not. And so it got to the very end. Like, I mean, I a week and a half before, I remember they called and they were like, you're an alternate. We're still not really sure. And I'm trying to make decisions with like my company and My boss was so amazingly flexible about it, thank God. But yeah, I just kind of got to a point that I was like, I'm going to let the universe take this one from here. So then an alternate means somebody else was in the running, and then if they didn't want to, it would be you?

I think so, but I think it was more layered than that. Like, I think that they did a lot of work to make sure that there wasn't crossover with the guys and the girls. And so it could be also that like maybe there was a guy on the other end that I knew, and they were waiting for him to say yes or no. I don't know. I think that there's a lot of different layers to it, but the basically gist of it is they were kind of waiting to see if there was a spot

for me or not. So how long in advance did you get the final yes? Six days. Like, I flew out on a Sunday, and I found out that Monday before. I was scrambling. Wait, where did you fly to? Was it not filmed in Minneapolis? No, so the pods part is all in California.

It's at their stage. out there. And then you do Honduras or like whatever your getaway is we did Honduras for a week and then we come back to Minneapolis. And then you come back. So you had,

you said a what to a Monday? When'd you find out? So I flew out on a Sunday. I found out the Monday before. So yeah, like six days. Oh my God. How, so you come to your boss and you're like,

I might go on this reality TV show. Did your boss know about the show? Like that's such an awkward combo, no? No. Thankfully, like my boss is amazing. And she also, like, lives in California and she has a daughter around my age, too. So she kind of got it. And I remember when I first brought it to her, I was so, I was worried about just like coming

off as unprofessional. I had just started this position. And she was just so like, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. She's like, we love, love. Like, she was just all, she was excited for me in the best way. And so, yeah, I did get to a point that she was like, you are going to need to give me not a two-day heads up. And I was like, very valid, very fair.

So I was able to give her a week And then, you know, I was able to work with people on my team to figure out how that's going to be covered Because I got my, I'm sequestered for like three weeks as part of that So I couldn't communicate with any of them. But yeah, she was amazing. So you get to the pods. Were you excited?

Like, what were you feeling? Did you think like, did you, when as a watcher of the show and an avid fan of the show, were you like, people found love? Like, we do have some couples that are still together. Like, did you see? the opportunity there to really find someone? Did and I was like excited about it but I also have known like in previous relationships it takes me a while to fully get like emotionally invested in someone and so I was excited to see

what this would look like but I wasn't 100% convinced I would be able to emotionally get there with someone else like that really was truly one of the most shocking things about this whole experience when I look back is that I was in a position by the time we got to engage day that I was like, I want to get engaged to this person. Like, I kind of surprised myself that that's how easily I fell into things. Was there anybody else that was your top aside from Dave? Yeah, I was talking to actually, it's so fucking Mason up until almost the end, which I had no idea that Meg and Madison, like I had, I could tell that he was making other connections and like I was making other connections, but I had no idea that that was what was happening behind

the other pods. And then Scott, who was another person, he wasn't shown a ton, but those were kind of like my three people toward the end. Do you have any regrets, like not moving forward with like Mason or the Scott guy? I mean, I don't know. It's so hard.

Like, I did get a little hard on myself after things ended to be like, I don't know. I chose the wrong person or I chose the person that wasn't ready to be with me or all of these things. But I think looking back, like I was just making the best decision.

And I could make at the time, and there were a lot of great qualities about Dave that I really, like, fell in love with in the pods and then kind of continued that in Honduras. I wouldn't say I, like, regret making that choice. But I don't know. Hindsight's always 2020 to be like, okay, if I would have leaned into other areas, other guys, what would this have looked like? You know, I heard somebody say something very true about the red flag situation, right? Like, we use that word so much now. And we're like, and usually it's used like red flag or how. How didn't she see the red flags or like, you know, or now the red flags are clear. Somebody said something that really, like,

struck a chord with me, which was like, this whole discourse about the red flag really puts, like, the burden on the other person, you know, like on you in this situation, right? But you said you beat yourself up anyway. But it really does. It's like, all the red flags were there, Lauren, you know?

Like, but or any person that that's said to, in hindsight with a breakup or celebs that we delve into their breakups. And it's like the red flags were there. You know, and I really agreed with whoever said this. Like it's so just like, you know, piling on the other person and putting the responsibility on them to have this whole other person's issues figured out, know that it would like turn into not someone who's good at a relationship.

But speaking of not doing that, were there any red flags in the boss? Okay, and first of all, like, I totally agree with that. And I was literally just having a conversation with my mom about this because so many people are quick online and even in person to call out the fact that I didn't see red flags. And my mom was like, okay, when I met your dad, he probably had some red flags. Like, there were things that he was working through. Like, we're not perfect people when we enter into a relationship. And there's things that were probably concerning about me too. And so, yes, there's definitely an element of maybe I overlooked some things, but also at the same time, I saw a lot of potential. and I wasn't willing to just completely say no to that because of a couple of things. I would say I really didn't see red flags until we were back in Minneapolis and his behavior kind of shifted a little bit

and he started to really, I don't know, not be on my team and not hear me out. I think that that was the biggest thing that I noticed that I let go a little bit longer. Wait, Lauren, back up. talking about you peeing, like, to everyone and everything wasn't, like, like, not red flag. Like, let's throw that word out. Yeah.

Annoying. Like, annoying to mention how fucking much you pee. Yeah. I didn't know he was mentioning that. Everyone until I watched it back. It is a conversation that we, like, Dave and I were talking a lot about our sleep schedules. I don't know why that was like a topical conversation we were like coming back to, but it was, I haven't shared a bed with someone in so long.

and, like, he hadn't either. And so we were just, like, kind of... How much are you peeing, if I can ask, that it's, like, aggressive for him? Okay. I think my anxiety was also, like, I was just not sleeping at all. So it's not even like, oh, my God,

I was getting up because I needed to, like, eat five times a night. It was like, I couldn't sleep. I was anxious. I made me need to take another dose of melatonin. I was just sticking around, you know? But probably the first night, I think I got up five times.

and he felt it he's probably a light sleeper he is but he was also snoring which was like part of I remember when we went to bed that night I was like are you a snore and he's like no and then we woke up and I was like you lied to me you also kept me up all night

so it's not all in me right I mean it's not at all on you like if you need to be you need to be I have to be right now I have to be all the time we're girls like this is a thing five of these like excuse me how are we not peeing

I don't understand I know men really don't get the peeing thing. Like my husband has made remarks like for leaving somewhere and I'm like, got to pee like always have to pee a second before but but yeah, but as of you or I will say it was weird

like the emphasis on it, talking to you about, talking to everybody and then there was another thing in Honduras that the emphasis was weird which was the sex stuff that he wanted to talk to everybody about know where everybody else did which is like kind of

immature you know. Yeah. And I think, too, that that is a conversation that was like, we were encouraged to have. I think a lot of the other people had the maybe maturity or like, how do I say this? I don't know. Awareness to say, oh, I'm not going to put people on blasts like that. I think he just was like, oh, we're supposed to talk about this. So I'm going to, I'm going to pry a little bit. Also, a conversation I didn't realize was fully happening in the way that it was happening until I was back. but was that important to him? Like, did he really want to get there, like the intimacy level? I mean, we had talked about it together, too. It's not like we weren't having those conversations. And it was kind of important to both of us, I would say.

It was, I mean, the whole point of that trip is to figure out if you are, like, connecting physically in the way that you connected emotionally in the pods. So we weren't talking about it. Did you feel like you were connecting physically with him? Yeah, I did. I mean, by the time we left Honduras, I was like, I am closer with this person emotionally and physically than I've had with, like, any guy that I dated.

I don't know. Like the way the experiment is set up to, you can get there. And I was kind of surprised by that part. Did you get there with him? Yeah. Did he tell people? Or did he stop the conversation once, like, it happened? I mean, you see him.

Honestly, so we were like kind of encouraged to have those conversations in the getaway. I feel like it wasn't as much of a topic when we came back to Minneapolis just because like there was so much other shit that we were tackling at that move. I mean, he does answer, I think he is talking to Molly and Molly's like, when is the last time you hooked up?

And he's like, well, Lauren and I have. And I'm like, that's not really what she meant when she was asking that. Oh, I mean, yeah, I was going to say he's a little like, you know, who made a joke like that? Like Amy Schumer and I'm by no means saying Dave is neurodivergent,

but Amy Schumer has, a joke that's really funny because her husband is on the spectrum and she talks about a lot in her comedy and she makes a joke like, is he a man or is he on the spectrum? So, spectrum somewhere, aren't we? I would assume. Yeah, right. Right. That's so funny. We'll be right back after the break. You guys, stop, stop, just stop right there. Stop paying crazy high wireless bills, bogus fees and getting tricked into these like free perks that actually end up costing more in the long run, okay? Keep your money where you can see it. Be smart. Get a good, good wireless plan and switch to Mint Mobile. You could literally be saving

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Back to the red flags, non-red flags. The sister stuff, which I know you probably are sick of like, but like, to a viewer, like, if this wasn't like edited and posed, superimposed, he talked about his sister a ton. Yeah.

So in the pods, did you feel it? Did you have like a thought about it? Like, what was the vibe? So in the pods, I do remember that coming up pretty quickly in the beginning about like my sister's worried

about me being here. My sister was worried about this experiment. Wasn't sure if this was like the best thing for me. But then we kind of like talked about that in the beginning and then kind of continued

to further our relationship. And I remember by the time we got to proposal day, he brought up the fact that he was like, I don't know I am worried about my sister with you. Like, you're so lovable.

She's going to love you. You guys just need to meet, and that kind of will take care of any of that anxiety that she has. And so by the time we got there, it really did feel like, okay, yes, this was something that was in the back of his head in the beginning of this experiment. But at this point, we've built this connection that it's not going to have to derail anything from here. Like, if anything, us meeting and kind of furthering along this process is just going to make

us stronger and better. Yeah. And that didn't happen. Wait, aside though from him sharing with you that a sister was worried, did he talk about her a lot in general, where it seemed like a bit too much or no? Not in the pods, I would say. And like, we talked about family a ton. I mean, I actually talked a ton about my older brother and sister-in-law. And like, they are just a relationship that I look up to so much and would love to replicate in a romantic partner. And so like those conversations were coming up a ton. And then he would respond to something like, the lines of his sister, too. But, like, at the time, it did not feel, in the pods, it did not feel excessive.

Do you know who his sister is? Because, like, we don't. I know of her. But I've never, I've never met her. I've never talked to her. So let's delve into that for a second. What the fuck happened for real? What did he, how did he get this information?

What was your actual story with this dude? Mm-hmm. Like, what, tell us more about that. Okay. My God, such a loaded question. I could talk about, I could answer that question for like two hours. Okay, so I have known this guy. We had talked for like a few months before filming. And as soon as like, yeah, as soon as casting started, I had told this guy like, hey, I know we've like went on a date at this point, but I'm starting casting conversations with Love is Blind and I kind of want to pursue that. And I honestly expected him to be like, okay, then let's not continue talking or anything like that.

But he was like very chill about it. And it was like, no problem. We don't need to be serious about this anyways. So that's kind of how we went about things the next couple of months. And then didn't think a ton of it. I remember, too, thinking, like, going on this experiment. Experiment is almost a nice excuse to end things with this other guy. Like, it was like, okay, sorry.

I'm no longer available. And so I'm going to leave from here. Because you weren't that into him? Yeah, I just knew that it wasn't somewhat. Like, if he's someone that I genuinely want, You wouldn't go on the show. Exactly. Like I wanted to meet.

I'm so ready to meet my person and like go through this next kind of stage of life. And if he was someone that I thought had the potential of that, I wouldn't have risked that to go. But you didn't. You were you were sure about that that he wasn't your person. Yeah. But it was like cool to hang out and like pass the time. And I remember thinking like he was on the same page with that too. And I was like, I kind of respected that.

And we had had conversations about, like, huge dates he was going on. Or I knew, I knew that he was kind of moving in a very single way as well, which I was like, I get, obviously, I'm about to go on a TV show where I'm very single. So very fair. Didn't really think much of it. When we are in the getaways, Dave made a comment off camera. I think we were talking about previous relationships. He's like, were you dating someone before?

And I was like, no, my last boyfriend was like over a year and a half ago. But I was like, and then he was like, were you hooking up with someone before? And I was like, yeah, how do you know that? And he's like, gives his name so and so. And name dropped him. And I was like, how do you know that? Such a random small world connection. And he's like, I had heard from like a friend of a friend that there was a girl coming

on the show who has a boyfriend. So this isn't, you guys don't have phones. So this isn't real time information. This is, he had heard before leaving for the pods. That there was a girl that came in with a boyfriend. Uh-huh. Okay. And when he first said that, like my first thought was, oh my God, I wonder what girl came in

with a boyfriend. Like, I'm kind of like racking my brain to be like, who could he be talking about, not realizing that he's like kind of accusing me of that in the quick moment. And so I was like, no, not me if that's what you're referring to. And I kind of like spelled out the timeline of things with him. And he was like, yeah, I don't love that that's like a random connection that we have, but it's fine. Like we're all, we were all single. I remember him also being pretty chill about in that first conversation off camera. He was like, we were all single going into this. And then the next day, we're doing this boat excursion,

which is when we go in that little, like, scuba diving thing where you're like on a little scooter. Anyways, we're sitting on the boat and he talks about coming back and we're on camera and he's like, yeah, I'm like really not excited to go back. And, you know, we have this connection now with this other guy. And I just remember thinking, like, I really didn't even think that this would ever be a topic of conversation

we would come back to after that initial chat we had the night before. And so I just, like, didn't really love that it was brought up immediately on camera like that. And then... Oh, because the first conversation was off camera. Right. Got you. So he didn't, like, even prepare you, like, by the way, I'm going to talk about this or anything. No, no.

But when you say connection, what does connection mean? Like, he... How close is his connection or is it just like a rumor mill? Like, what's the... Yeah, they have, like, one mutual friend in Minneapolis. I think that there's probably some other people. But there's like one guy that's kind of like

good friends with him and then good friends with Dave. Okay. So random that he would like know. Like, but do you, did you get to the bottom of why it was said that you had a, that you had a boyfriend?

No. Why it was said that it was a boyfriend? Like who would, no, we don't know. Did you ever talk to the guy and say, were you saying that we were boyfriend girlfriend?

So he's come out since and been like, no, like Lauren and I were casual. Like, I don't under, like even to this day, and yeah. And we did have a conversation, like...

Even to this day, what, Lauren? What? Even to this day, what? Like, even to this day, like, on his social media, he's like, no, Lauren and I were casual. Oh, people found him? I guess I didn't sleuth enough. No, don't.

Please don't. It's like, he is really trying to lean into this. And it's not good. Oh, gross. Red flag. Red flag. I know. Guys, I need a much better picker

than what I have. Wait, he's trying to, like, get interviews or something, like, as Lauren's hook up before the show. Correct. Oh, yucky. Did he make a TikTok? Did he, like, have a green screen? The whole thing. All over the socials. He's really leaning in. But I guess it's not working for him because I feel like it's not getting as much traction as he might have thought, you know? Right. Especially because, but it sounds like he is still, he's not being an asshole where he's trying to maybe say other things and say you were lying. He is still saying that you are on the same page. At least that.

At least that. Right. Okay. We'll give him credit for that. We'll give him credit for that. But gross. Yeah. So he knew.

And then, okay. And then he brought it up to you on camera and all of a sudden you're realizing, wait, this is really affecting him. Slash, he doesn't believe you. Right. Right. And then things get like the worst when we are in the airport in Honduras. They're giving us our phones back. I'm so excited to like text my girlfriend's group chat, call my parents, all that stuff. And his group chat is just like absolutely exploding. And I didn't find this out until later. But apparently that's when like all of his buddies were in their group chat being like, you just got engaged to someone with a boyfriend. And he immediately was like, what the fuck have I done? So that's kind of how things, when went downhill from there. And, like, I really do.

If I'm looking back, I do think in that moment, he was like, I'm out of this. I can't, I'm not going to go against my guy back. It's the ego. It's the inflated, even if he believed you, which, like, the moments, like, it did look like he believed you. And he knows, like, even if you fucking were with this guy, you're not now. So, like, what does it matter? but he and as with a lot of men have the ego of like a fucking like country the size of a country

and they can't it's like i cannot it's like i cannot i cannot because this is more important for people to not think that i'm a loser for but you're this girl that he picked that he got engaged to behind a wall all this shit and you're looking at him with your weld up eyes and saying I'm telling you the truth this was nothing and he's saying what like I believe you I can't believe you

like what he just kept being like I just don't understand the timeline I just can't get past the timeline and like I think at the time I thought he meant like the timeline of me and this other guy

and so that's why I kept being like what else do you want for me like how clear can I be about this which was Lauren which was what like you had seen him the week before the show.

That's what really bothered him. Yeah. Like your last time seeing the guy was like before you left, basically. Before I even knew that I was officially on it too. Like I didn't, like, we had hooked up before and then like a few days after I got the call that I was officially on it from there.

Not that that even matters, right? Like, that's semantics at this point. Yeah. But he, I think looking back, he meant the timeline of like, we're supposed to get married in two weeks and he can't work through this in two weeks.

He can't decide if he's going to marry someone while listening to his, like, college bodies over his fiancee. And, like, I think that's the timeline that he was really struggling with the most. Okay. And the sister, like, it was the buddies and the sister. Yeah.

Maybe the buddies and the sister are friends. I think they might have been talking. Honestly, I was really, as you saw, like, in the dark and all of that, I didn't know what conversations were happening. I just knew that every time, like, almost every day he would come with new false information or a new like what like what could have changed like what what kind of stuff like even things being like well i heard that you guys

spent the night together the night before i'm like i didn't spend the night with him once the entire time that i was even talking to this guy like well i heard like just like random little shit like that i'm like i don't know where you're getting this from and that's why i kept being like can we go to the source like i don't understand why i'm having to speak through I'm having to play a game of telephone with you right now and you're not even letting me get to the source on things. So that's, that was frustrating. And if you got the opportunity to talk to the boys and his sister,

like, what, you would have sat there and again said, hooked up with this guy, like that's what you were planning on doing on giving the timeline? I would have given the timeline and Ben, like, what more information do you need? And also, like, what I kept saying to Dave is I'm like, I'm picking you in this. Like, I don't understand. This guy doesn't.

matter at the end of the day you're the person that I want to be with and whether that's an engagement or a marriage or a relationship like I'm picking you and even that this was before I even knew you like this was before I knew you that's where it's like the ego because like nothing else should be bothering you about this aside from your bruised ego which is like did he seem like a jealous or possessive guy in general like did he want to hear about your past relationships. Is that something that, like, triggered him? I don't think that I got, like, past relationship. Jealousy, I think, I do think that an ego was part of it.

I think he's going to have to, like, defend this girl over his buddies, and he wasn't maturity-wise prepared to do that. Like, that was just too much for him. I think that was the biggest factor in all of it, is him having to, like, make some big kid decisions about this person that he just got engaged to in front of his friends and family. And that's hard to do. And sister, sister, sister.

Exactly. So at that point, when he's bringing up your sister a lot, his sister a lot, you said in the pods you didn't feel it. Did you start to feel it then that like, whoa, this sister seems to be kind of either controlling his life or by the way, a lot of the audience thinks, which I don't know my personal, if that's my personal opinion, some people thought that he was like kind of using her as a scapegoat and that that, you know, like,

and people are making fun, like, does a sister exist, you know, blah, blah, blah. But, like, did you feel in those moments like, whoa, or were you thinking, is he using this as an excuse to get out? Like, what were you thinking? I definitely, and I didn't say that to him at one point. Like, if you need an out, this is a really good out to use because it's really dumb, but it's something that you can be able to, like, pinpoint and say, like, this is the reason. I think I noticed it, too, when it's not even, we're all from the Midwest. There were a lot of families that were having a tough time with the cameras part of it. And I even had, like, family and friends be like, we want to meet the guy.

We want to get to know him, but cameras aren't intimidating. And so that part wasn't even the thing that bothered me, but I wasn't even having a phone call. Like, he wouldn't call her if I was in the room or he wouldn't put us on speaker. And I was even doing that with my people. Like, my older brother was like, I don't really want to film, but can I call you later? Will you put us on speaker? I'd love to talk to Dave. And like, it started to be a red flag when none of that was even happening on his end.

And again, I don't think that that is on his sister. I think that Dave is the one in this relationship. Dave is the one who made this commitment and got engaged. And so he should be the one to say to his family, like, you're either in or you're out, but like this is my relationship and kind of do the work to bring us together. And he wasn't doing that. We'll be right back after the break. You guys know that I have an issue with cooking.

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Mm, love that. She gets the courage and support to go on the sex quest from her best friend, Nikki, who stays by her side through it all. FX's Dying for Sex, all episodes streaming April 4th on Hulu. I don't even think I need to be telling you this, but I will tell you again, I will tell you again, to get Quince items because really, like, I shop at Quince so often, and I just love it. It feels like I'm treating myself without, you know, breaking the band,

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upgrades you deserve from Quince. Go to quince.com slash not skinny for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order. That's quince, Q-U-I-N-C-C-E.com slash not skinny to get free shipping and 365 day returns as a full year. Quince.com slash not skinny. And we're back. So all these scenes that you're filming, talking about it, what's happening in the off hours? Like, are you good? Are you going about your day hanging out, eating lunch? Or, like, is it always the topic? No, like, that's the thing. You were good. And, like, that really was only a topic that was brought up when, like, cameras were rolling and we needed to talk about our relationship. Otherwise, we were, like, we were both working remotely, so we're kind of in and out. We had a couple

nights where we weren't filming. So we like got drinks and like hung out either with us or even with just the other couples. It really felt like a very normal relationship outside of when cameras would roll and we would talk about all of this. So then he just started talking about it and then it would take him. It's such a bizarre situation, I feel like, you know. Okay. So in this though, he's not able to get over it. How didn't you get to a point of like, if, If you can get over this, like, I'm walking. Like, you did actually get. Like, it gets to that point, but it was kind of more him being done.

Yeah. But, like, were you ever thinking, like, I'm not having this conversation again. I'm not explaining myself again. This is ridiculous. I'm out. Yeah. And I actually say that. I wish they showed me saying this too.

But when we were at the cycling studio, that was, like, the first time. With your friends. Yes. Yeah. That was so, that was crazy. They also did such a good job on that. Like, they even didn't know a ton, but they just handled it so well. And, oh, my God, I was so impressed by them.

Yeah. Don't you're, are they your good friends? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they were writing for you. And, like, he was just like, yeah, I don't know what to tell you. I heard from this guy that, like, she saw the guy. And I'm like, what is actually happening?

Okay, so at the cycling studio. Yes. And, like, so we bring it up and we're talking. And I say to him, like, I need you to decide how you feel about this. Like, if this matters to you, you need to talk. tell me. If it doesn't matter to you, then we need to move past this. Because I remember we kept having these conversations and we're getting closer and closer to our wedding date. And I remember thinking, I still have questions about him. I still have things that I need to figure out about

this guy if I'm going to marry him or even go to the altar. And all we're doing is spending time talking about my sexual history. Like, I just remember being like, when are we going to get to things that actually matter in terms of a relationship? And that was just not happening. So I say that at the cycling studio. And then I think I just have this emotional whiplash and I probably suck around longer because we weren't tackling this outside of cameras. Like outside of cameras, it was in our relationship, we're like living our normal lives. There's even a point that he says to me a couple of days before we break up off camera. Like, I don't really give a shit we you slept with. Like, and then we would come back to the same topic. And so I do think that a part of it too

is like I was just almost getting different vibes and different because again I think I think maybe again it's the ego like I don't want to look pathetic I don't want to look like the guy that stayed with the girl who hooked up with someone before going on a show

like what else could it be but what did you see in Dave that maybe we didn't as the audience that made you you know ride for him for such a long time, get engaged to him. Yeah. I mean, I think like, and you're seeing a little bit more of this character now, like you saw a little bit more of it at the reunion and I think a little bit more like in kind of the

way he's handling it. I do think, I don't think deep down he's a malicious bad person. I really do think deep down he loves his people. We talked so much about the closeness we had with our friends and family. We talked a lot about what we wanted our futures to look like and they really aligned in terms of like family values. financial goals. Like, we really dove into all of that.

And I do think that deep down, he is a good person who was trying to do his best. I think, like, where he was lacking is putting his ego down, the emotional maturity, being able to be fully ready for an actual mature romantic relationship.

And also he was kind of, I mean, there were, do you know the truth about these situations? Like, one, you were getting the apartment ready for people to come over. Last minute, he tells you they're not coming. as far as you knew until that point, they were coming. Then it's like the letter with the sister.

He said, you were like, he came home with it. Then at the reunion, he says, no, I gave it to her, but I came back with it. Like, what's the truth? Like, do you know the truth? Did the sister see the letter? So I think the truth is that I'm kind of speculating, but like, I think he told his friends not to come that night. I don't think that they, like, backed out or they.

Like, could you imagine? Could you imagine his friends being like, We will not see this woman who dare had hooked up with it. Like, it just is, like, crazy. No guy was thinking like that. Like, any, I mean, maybe the Midwest said's different. I just don't know. But, like, a dude would be like, who fucking, like, who cares, like what she did before?

So our speculation, tell me if I'm wrong, is that he was kind of using the friends and the sister as a scapegoat saying nobody wants to meet you. were here from you because you're the devil but like he was the rumor was happening so I think maybe he was just didn't want that situation because like he didn't want to be like

the loser fiance who is staying with this girl who walked up with a guy. It's just too crazy but it I can't imagine a world in which his buddies I could imagine a world in which they were teasing him on

messages which you said it was blowing up but in which they wouldn't want to like come hang out like be on a TV show like I remember him saying like well they don't want to be the bad guy and I'm like I'm the bad guy in this situation I'm the one that's going to sit here and defend myself for being the like Minneapolis horror and on national television and like I'm willing to do that and so yeah I do you feel like slut shamed like whatever that word sucks too but did you feel like shamed in a sense yeah I just like didn't understand why It mattered.

Yes. So I did feel a little sleptshed because I'm like, I think it's BS if you're going to sit here and tell me you haven't slept with someone in the past six months because you've been having casting conversations with love is blind. And did he say that he wasn't, though? I don't know. I didn't explicitly, like Molly, I think was the only one that said when was the last time you had sex. I didn't answer it. By the way, Molly. Yeah, you didn't care because why would you care?

He just slept with someone the night before he left for the pods and I still wouldn't. and have been like, wow, person high him for that. Wow. Speaking of Molly, I didn't really love her during the pause.

I was like, whatever, did start loving her when she really rallied for you. And it seemed very genuine how she was talking to Dave and, you know,

mind everybody, she's his ex. She wanted to get engaged to him. Meanwhile, she's sitting there and grilling him about you and saying, like,

are you dumb? Like, what are you doing? Yeah. Did you form, like, a friendship with her after? Yes. And honestly, like, I remember, there's just so much that happens in the lounge anyways. It's not like we weren't friends.

I just, like, started to gather that she was talking to Dave to. And I was like, I just don't want to hear about it. Like, she can have a connection. I just don't want to, like, you know, be part of that conversation with her. But I think when she came in after they had broken up, and I remember the way she was talking to me about, like, things with her and Dave, she was already kind of protecting. me and Dave's relationship more than her own relationship or her own, like, ego almost. Like, she could have told me a lot of the promises that he made or, like, the things that he said

to her that really validated her that would have discredited Dave and I's relationship. And she purposely chose not to, to kind of protect, like, my heart in a way. And I, like, looking back, I just thought that that was so admirable. And I'm so, I don't even know if I would be strong enough to handle things the way that she did there. and then we had had conversations about the conversation she had had with Dave at this group hang but I just had no idea she killed it that much

like she really did ride so hard she was so direct with him she was so team Lauren and that was just oh I was so impressed is anybody not team Lauren from the cast like is anybody like writing some comments in my some DMs you know everyone has an opinion

you did say like on your Instagram that like the block button, like you're easy on the block button these days. What? I can't imagine like what kinds of things are said to you that are not nice. So the first drop of episodes, obviously we're dealing with the Molly thing too. And I say to Dave like,

like Dave asked me like, what do you want from this? And I was like, I would want you to pick me and like for us to be together from this. And I was a huge pick me after that. Like I had so many comments like pick me, desperate. Like, I had to put those in my hidden words for a couple weeks because of how crazy people who are being about me being such a pick-me after the first drop of episodes.

Wait, is it picking me somebody that says pick me? I didn't know that's a difference. Like, pick-me energy is different than the words pick-me. But I don't need to explain that to people on the internet. They can have their own opinion about it. But that was the only thing. Nobody, nobody, you didn't feel heat because of the actual situation with the dude or how you handled it with Dave? I mean, there are definitely people out there that have made comments about me not taking this seriously, sleeping around beforehand. But those are so few and far between.

And those are probably like, you know, mothers that are, you know, you know, yeah. Yeah. That's, it's, it's a wild situation. Do you see a world, if you can picture it, that this didn't come up, everything was fine with Dave? Were you planning on saying yes? the altar if that wouldn't have happened? I mean, I think I was willing, like,

and kind of what I had said to date, probably why I stuck around more longer than people would assume is, like, so much changes in a day. And there is so much growth and so much, like, furthering along in this relationship that happens in a day and in a week. So I was willing to continue seeing what that growth looked like. And I did feel like there were a lot of times that our relationship was really progressing. I think I probably would have gotten to a point of kind of similar

to what my friends and family were saying at the time, like, can you guys just date? I probably would have wanted to see where things continued to go with him. I feel like other little signs would have come up about him, maybe not being fully ready for marriage that I would have picked up on, but I still had so much love for him at the time. When you left that movie theater or wherever you were talking, was that the last time you saw him before the reunion?

well okay so we had the group hang we had we broke up and then like oh right the group hang right where he asked if he could hug you yeah yeah is that awkward you handled it really well at that point I remember going into that night like I think I had mourned the ending of our breakup like throughout that past week and so by the time you'd kind of put the nail in the coffin there I was like so done and I remember the next night producers were like, do you want to have a conversation with him? Like, do you have anything you want to say? And I was like, no, I don't need closure. I don't need clarity. He's made his decision. I feel good about it. And so there really wasn't anything that I, like, needed to say to him.

So when he came up to me, it was more of like, what are you, what do you have to say? And what did it feel like his intentions were? I mean, what does he have to say at this point? I mean, I don't know. I remember him making the comment about, like, it kind of felt like he started to take a little ounce of accountability for his actions in this. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

I got what you were saying. And I remember thinking, like, I just don't know if you fully believe that. And if you fully believe that, you wouldn't... Like, he kind of said, I wish it didn't get to me

the way that it did, but it had. But almost like he can't control it. Like, I wish I... Yeah, like... And you said about not believing him a couple times where he spoke about his love for you. And I like that you,

you know, immediately said back, like, I don't know if I believe that because you, it seemed like your stance was if you, like, loved me or had this love for me, like, you would act differently, you would defend me, you would this, you would that. Do you think that he loved you? I do think

that there was love there. I do. Like, I think that that would be hard for, yeah, I could tell that he was genuinely struggling with how to tackle all of this information and all of the news. I don't think he loved me enough to

right like put me above the ego or above like how difficult it was at the time there was love there just not enough to actually like work through a relationship okay so you saw him at the group hanging and then from there until the reunion did you encounter each other because from what you said at the reunion Minneapolis is tiny or and or you guys go out a lot to bars yeah so I had seen him like we had run into each other, but, like, it was never, like, we never, like, met up to, like, he never reached out to be like, let's talk or, like, let's, I have some things I want to say. I have some clarity. Like, he never reached out in that regard.

Yeah. And, but you run into the other cast all the time. Yeah. And I'm close with, like, a small group of us. Like, there's, like, six or seven of us that hang out a lot. And then, of course, there's, like, six bars and down to Minneapolis. So we also see each other a lot in that way. I see each other a lot.

So, okay, give us some tea about what's happening right now. I mean, from the season, we really only have Daniel and Taylor, right? Yeah. But, like, there are winners. Yeah. Is it rumors right now about Joey and Sarah, which, like, are neither here nor there. Do you know anything? I, like, that's so not my, there's a lot of stories being told right now.

And I think, if anything, I would just. things are not as black and white as I think the internet, shockingly, things that they are. There's a lot of layers to that, but I don't want to speak on anyone. Is Sarah one of the people that you're close with? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Copy that. So who else? You said it was six. So you, Sarah. Yeah. Me, Sarah and Taylor. Yeah.

Me, Sarah, Taylor. And, okay, Scott, Joey, Daniel, and Tom. which you didn't see Tom and Scott a ton in that. But we're like, and I am really close with Molly too. I don't see her, I mean, as much, but I'm close with her too. What did you think about Megan Mason having that cheesy little reveal moment and trying to make it work? I remember they showed us that at the like group hang thing. And I just thought I was like, this is a cool way to almost like do this experiment in your own terms.

Like, of course, they had already seen each other on Instagram and like text it a little bit. But I don't know. I thought that that was so fresh. And I remember being like, this is a cool new approach to things. And they have such a good friendship now. Yeah, they're really crushed. What do you think about people saying about this season

that it's boring or saying about this season that Minneapolis seems like the worst place to date? It is the workplace to date. I co-sign on that. I kind of agree. Like, it's not, it is a little bit boring. I was thinking about this too. Like, as a viewer and a fan of love is one.

one of my favorite parts of watching it is like the first group hang in the getaways when you meet people who had like previous connections and you're trying to like feel out people's vibes and compare them and like we just didn't have that like Molly wasn't on the Honduras trip or like I'm trying to like beat out wasn't on the Honduras trip with like Devin and Virginia so we just like did it have that kind of right and mimic and so that makes it a little like less exciting right that moment where you're like oh she's hot or like you're jealous because there this or you're right i mean dave tried he tried to talk about the sex he tried to get the can't dave tried okay he did try okay i get what you're saying so where are you now out with

the dating i so i've dated a little bit in the last year from like hinge or so i kind of talked about this in another podcast too but i did kind of date scott a little bit like six months after dave and i broke up and that was it was definitely a conversation like he had reached out he was someone that I had connected with in the pods and honestly the whole when they bring people on to this we take all of these compatibility tests with the goal being there are multiple people that you're compatible with in the pods it's not like you just show up and there's one person that is there for you and hopefully right and so I remember at the time being like okay I owe it to myself to also explore this connection and same with him and we talked for a little bit

And we kind of were like, okay, is this something that we even want to bring to the group or to Dave and, like, have this conversation? We kind of explored it a little bit on our own first and then decided to bring it to him. I thought it wasn't like the most fun thing to deal with in terms of because he and Dave were our friends. And there were a couple of group hangs that we were all together. But I mean, at the end of the day, Scott and I just ended up being very good friends. And he's like, so you guys came to Dave and told him. How did he take it? So Scott reached out to Dave, and Dave, I think, was like, I think said to Scott, like, it's, you know, all good.

Like, you guys are great. But then I think there were some, like, other comments to other people about how it might have been too soon for me, which at the time I was like, this was, we broke up six months ago. And it's not like you and I have been chatting or anything. Yeah. So I didn't feel like there was anything wrong with that. I wonder how his bros and sister feel about that, though. They don't, I'm talking about that. So Scott wasn't the one

But you tried You wanted to see it out You want But you're still able to hang out with him In like group settings And it's not weird Yeah Like we honestly got like closer friends

From that And I just have like nothing Which is a Midwestern thing Apparently too Meg and Mason Like you guys are just so nice And Polite or something

I don't know That you stay friends Like even now With everything with Dave Like I Yes I hated how he handled Things a year ago but, like, I'm not with him.

And also, you're not talking shit. Like, you genuinely throughout this podcast, even, like, you know, you could have been harsher and you're a class act and you've chosen not to. Did you, speaking of the, the, the cringy guy you hooked up with doing TikToks, there is another cringy guy doing TikToks from your season, Ben, lots of green screens, receipts. Can you tell us anything about how the group is responding to it? people icked out? Like, what, what's the vibe around town? So the thing that I don't love

specifically about that is that we just had this whole weekend in Austin together, the South by Southwest, where we like watched the reunion and they flew out everyone from the cast. And so we worked together a lot throughout this weekend. And at that point, Ben had heard these like rumbling rumors of Joey and Sarah and he talked to Joey about it. And they're like, good. And they're like, we're buds. Like, it's fine. Like, no hard feeling. if there's anything there, like really nothing but good vibes between Joey and Ben.

And then we come back in a few days later, Ben is making these TikToks like exposing Sarah and like giving her shade about it. And I just like, that's where I just don't understand the disconnect.

Like if you're cool with it, but then you need to like bring it online to put Sarah down for your own benefit. Like that's where, that's where I'm struggling with. I think that's where some other people on the cast are struggling with too.

Everyone's allowed to work through their own shit. and, like, have feelings about the way that their ex-treated them, but then to, like, bring it directly to social media for the purpose of just, like, their own personal gain. That's where I just don't buy that. Wait, Lauren, remind me who, which one from the cast consulted with Jimmy about what to say at the reunion?

Ben. Oh, Ben. Yeah. Oh, my Jesus. Like, you think it went so well for him. You won pointers? No, that was insane. I mean, that's when, I guess, like, the true colors slash, you know, bachelor style, real intentions of people kind of come through when you're like, when they're so concerned about the TV aspect of it.

Totally. They're like at it. And that is so something that I'm kind of seeing now is the way people are moving on social media. It's just interesting. I'm like gathering a lot of new information, I feel like. Well, keeping you and moving the way you do because it's. It's perfect. And you're going to find,

you're going to find the one that, you know, doesn't make you tear up every conversation. I hope so. I can't do that again. Well, thank you for coming on, Lauren. It was so good to meet you. Yeah, thank you. This was so fun.

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