Not Skinny But Not Fat - Mayci Neely: Sinner or Saint?

Episode Date: October 21, 2025

Secret Lives of Mormon Wives star and NYT best selling author of Told You So Mayci Neely is here! We talk about her new book, surviving an abusive relationship and the loss of her son’s father. She opens up about healing, motherhood, faith, BYU rebellion, and raising her kids Mormon(ish). Plus: newborn life, drama on Secret Lives of Mormon Wives and more!This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.Ebay.com – things people love.Right now, IQBAR is offering our special podcast listeners twenty percent off all IQBAR products—including the sampler pack—plus FREE shipping. To get your twenty percent off, text NOTSKINNY to 64000. Message and data rates may apply. See terms for details.This year, skip breaking a sweat AND breaking the bank. Get this new customer offer and your 3-month Unlimited wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month at MINTMOBILE.com/notskinny. Head to Columbia.com to get your hands on an Amaze Puff jacket - they're tough on cold, soft on you.Curious about ByHeart? Head to ByHeart.com and use code NOTSKINNY30 to save 30% off your first subscription order for a limited time. ByHeart is also available at Target, Walmart and major retailers nationwide. Check us out in stores today! Additional terms and conditions apply.Go to us.frankie4.com and use code NOTSKINNY for 20% off your first order.Right now Merit Beauty is offering our listeners their Signature Makeup Bag with your first order at meritbeauty.comProduced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to the not skinny but not fat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch, and I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars on my very own podcast, where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. Hi, guys. Welcome to a new episode of Not Skiny, but Not Fat. Last week was crazy. Last week was crazy with a gay. The way I kept that secret from you, the way Commander popped in again. Now, obviously, and honestly, a dream come true. Chris, motherfucking Jenner, that was just like a dream

come true. A dream come true. And I'll just keep making those dreams come true, manifesting, believing, and being entirely and totally de lolo. Anyway, how is everybody? Welcome to this week's episode, which is going to air the day before my first motherfucking live show. No, my live show is tomorrow. Oh, my God. No, I can't believe it's happening.

Can't believe it's happening. So excited to see everyone who's coming. Like, so excited. But also, this is like a brand new thing for me. So they're like those nerves of like, what the fuck did I get myself into? Like, this is, this is brand new information. Okay. And it's funny because after this show sold out, which obviously I was like imposter syndrome central.

Like what? Some people are coming. It sold out so quickly and I'm so grateful because if not, then I would like, I don't know, just run away or pull it Justin Timberlake and like say that I have COVID. So, so then it's like, oh, then let's do a tour. And I'm like, hold up, hold up, hold up. Let me see if I like this. And then everyone who kind of knows me is like, let me see if I like this, like you

dreaming to be on the stage since you were fucking boring. Like, let me see if I can like that like all these people came for me and are like loving me and hanging out with me. And yeah, let's see me in Lincoln. They're going to like meet all your people and like feel the community. Like, let me like it like telling jokes. See, I don't know, telling jokes. I'm not a stand-up comedian.

I don't want to pretend to be. I've seen people do live shows pretending to be stand-up comedians. I did not like that. Anyway, on to the next. On to the next. We have a... No, I just...

You know what happened to me right now. I just had a flashback that I went to this event last week. I know Yerevias, she's going. Honestly, it was the coolest fucking, like, Lucas Gage's book party was honestly, like, the coolest event this year. Like, Lucas, just, you know,

it was the sluddiest. Like, it was like a college party. but like with like young Hollywood like at a sleazy gay bar like that but it was so cool and it was so funny because I you know was so I was like mingling Amanda like hello hello hi I know you and I meet you bo bo bo bo bo and then you know so many people came up to me and talked to me about the pod which literally imposter syndrome because I act like I'm the only listener of the pod like oh my god do you know my podcast and they're like yes like everybody does I'm like no they don't but then like there was like this mini roast of my pod that ended up happening between like in this area of the bar

and I was kind of living for it and I'm like am I like Baldwin right now and is this like is Nikki Glazer doing my roast and I loved it and then I left and I was like should I have loved that as much as I did because they were like kind of they were like we love it but like here's how you talk and like here is like here are like the kinds of questions that you ask and like kind of making fun of me but in a loving way and I kind of loved it. I was like roast me roast me. Anyway, that was just a side note, side story. In a, in a sharp turn to the left to the left, no, just the amount of millennial like references in my life are just embarrassing. Beyonce is never embarrassing, by the way. So to the left to the left, we are having such an

interesting conversation today with such a fun person, reality star. She's on Secret Lives of Mormon wives, which I got so much shit for saying sister wives by accident when I had Jennifer Affleck on. Have you heard of mom brain? Like, have you heard of not getting enough sleep at night? Like, could you believe that I listened to my episodes after and I didn't hear me saying it? But so many people heard me fucking by accident say sister wives. We're like, she should apologize to Jen. I was like, are people literally okay? Like, I watch the show. If you follow me, you know that I like watch a show. I'm obsessed with the show. I know. I know, all the girls like it was a slip up okay and they kind of are sister wives no they're not

sister wives anyway non-sister wives but Mormon wives so macy neely is on today i was fascinated by her from season one because she has such an interesting story that the show doesn't really delve into but it's like crazy okay like teen pregnancy dead boyfriend, like just wild, wild, wild stories, and how she got to where she is today. And she's such a lovely person. I feel like that always came across on the show, but we kind of didn't know, like, what's beneath that, like, kindness and that smile and that, like, acceptance, like, just so interesting to me. I read her book, it's called Told You So, So Good, Learned So Much about her.

and she's on today to talk about it. So Macy's book told you so is available now. Everywhere books are sold. Enjoy my conversation with Macy Neely. So excited for you to be on Macy, especially after reading your book. Yeah. What do you think?

I was blown away. I was blown away by it, like, your story, which I'm kind of mad for you. Let's get right into it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Why wasn't it included in season one? I know you filmed for it a bit, and it's so important and such a big tragedy. Yeah, I mean, it's hard to say because I don't have any control over the edit.

But I don't know. I always just say, like, I'm not enough drama for them. Like, I don't know. They always take, like, the juiciest stuff that's going on, like, in current time. And that's what they roll with. So I feel like the, which is kind of sad because, like, the stories that are, impactful and that are relatable, sometimes they cut. So like mine got cut. I know Michaela's got cut season one, but she got it like part of it in season two. And I think she'll probably have in season

three. But yeah, for whatever reason, they, I don't know. And it happens pretty, pretty often, I would say. So there was a lot more that like when they did show part of my story in season two, that was only like two scenes out of like six that I filmed for it. So it is like obviously a little disappointing. But at the same time, I was like, well, at least I can tell my story in my own way in my book. Yeah. Yeah. It worked out that way, I guess, because if you would have told it kind of all in huge detail, you know, maybe you wouldn't have felt.

You may not have wanted to read it. Yeah. Or maybe, yeah, you wouldn't have felt the need to kind of start writing it. Was this book born out of the journals that you mentioned you were writing in in the book? Yes. Yes. No, it was. So, like, that was a big part of it.

And that was the inspiration behind. writing it, to be honest, was like my dad coming in and I was just like a bratty, you know, kid living with my parents again. I was just like, whatever. And then I started writing it because it actually felt good to write, which is funny because it feels like old fashioned, but I was like, I feel like it was like a way for me to vent how it was feeling. Like, I felt like I couldn't show those feelings like out loud. So it was like a good source for me during like going through everything. And so I love that. And then it turns obviously into inspiration for the book. And then I also wrote a blog in the past.

It's kind of like a framework of that with the diary and like I had written some other parts in the past too and I just never really like turned it into a book. So it's kind of combining all that together and then adding obviously more like stories and like fun stuff that people don't know. And so yeah, so I'm hoping people can get to know my personality in it too. Sometimes it's hard to relay it in a book even when it's like so serious and stuff because we did cut some of like my really dark humor, which is probably for good reason because I think who have been like, there's something wrong with her. But it's just like kind of how I cope.

But yes, I'm really happy that I could like put it together in a book. Tell me about you gave birth in July, end of July. So how old is Charlie May three, three, three months? No, two. I think she's two months today. Yeah, two months today. She's one of the 23rd of July. Oh, it's the 23rd today.

Yes. So it's 23rd, two months. Yeah, I know. She's so cute. I like obsessed with her. You're in love? I'm in love. I'm in baby heaven, basically.

And this is your third child? Yes, number three. So in the book, it's called Told You So, which, by the way, is that your dad, your dad told you so? Is that the vibe? Yeah. You, I think you're the first person to actually get it right off the bat. Yeah, it's basically the vibe of like my parents and, um, maybe I'm the first person

that actually read it, Macy. No, truly. Maybe that's the case because you, you understood the assignment. Yeah, it basically comes from, like, my parents and I told you not to date that guy, told you not to do this. And then it's like, see what happened. He didn't listen. This happened.

And it's like, but I always say like I'm someone who kind of has to figure things out for myself to know what I want to do. Like I'm very like a curious person, I guess. So either way, them telling me told you said it really affects my future. Yeah, it's kind of like you were saying before that some things don't get shown of yours because maybe you're not that like salacious and, you know, juicy but like in this book we really find out that you are like you were a naughty girl yeah you are a naughty Mormon girl which I like your vibe on the show doesn't really give that yeah so you get

to know this like other side of you like you were yeah drinking you were doing sexual things which you are very vulgar about in the book I mean you say it you say the words the yeah I would I said, you know, I'd be reading and then it'd be like, fingering me. You know what I mean? I'd be like, oh, okay. Hello. No, I know, right? I know. It's just, like, funny because that's, like, how I am in, like, real life.

And I am who I am on the show. But I feel like, yeah, like how things are edited. Like, I can't control. Like, there's, like, little glimpses if you pay attention in the show that you'll see. I think, like, season one, someone pointed out how I said, like, when we had the three pebbles bag out. And I was like, oh, that smells like the weed I used to smoke. And someone was like, what?

Like, there's, like, a couple of people who noticed it. But it's like, it's funny because I get labeled as like a saint on the show, but people who know me or my past are like, how are you a saint? And I'm like, because I currently don't like do that stuff. It's because like in the past, maybe I was a sinister, but on the label of the same because I don't like do that stuff anymore because honestly I couldn't handle it. That's part of the big reason why. I mean, you've been through a lot.

In this book, you really detail this abusive relationship you had with a guy that you named Dick, which is you name him Dick. right? That's not his name. Yeah. So we name him Dick, which is kind of funny, again, like you were saying with your dark humor. Yes. Dick is a dick. So tell me a little bit more about that abusive relationship because you do get into it in the book,

but I would like to hear from you like a little bit more about that. Yeah. And it's funny because I also did film a little bit of this story for the show as well that didn't make it. I literally went to the site, like the apartment complex where I was assaulted. and stuff too, which is very vulnerable and stuff to do, but it's not shown. And I don't know if it's too heavy of content for this show. Like, this is like too much for viewers to handle. But I mean, I am glad that I could talk about in the book because it's freeing.

But I also like wanted to expose like, I don't know, kind of what was going on because I think this can happen in a lot of relationships where maybe you have a partner who's older than you. And so they try to make you feel like you don't know what you're doing because I think that was a common theme in this relationship. It was kind of like, well, you've never had a boyfriend before. like, you don't know how to be a good girlfriend. This is what good girlfriends do.

And stuff and so I was so, like, manipulated when I was younger by him. I just didn't realize, like, what was even going on. And so I think that's a big part of why I wanted to talk about it is because they're probably other younger women, too, going through this. Or maybe they aren't yet and they meet someone and they can spot the red flags. And that's kind of my hope with writing it all. But, yeah, basically, I was just in a very abusive relationship for, I think it was like a full year, a little over a year.

But it started out, like, very subtle. Like little red flags, but I was so young. Or he was like controlling, right? Were those the red flags? Controlling, like possessive, jealous, love bombing. But like at the time, since I never had been in like a real relationship, I was like I didn't know like what to look for, I guess. I didn't realize that those were like red flags, I guess.

And so I kind of just like went along with it. It's like little things like, I'm trying to think like, here's so many flowers in the regular, which is great. But like, stuff like that like big love bombing things, like buying me a Tiffany's necklace after knowing him for like a month and stuff for i was like oh my gosh this prince charming right but then it's like i would go to like tennis practice and we'd do like dinners after and he would freak out about me like because there would be like the opposite sex there and then you're like just friends you know little things like that like not being able to go to like i talk about

in the book like not being able to go to like a concert because other guys were invited too and it's like so anywhere i went where there was like a male species nearby like was not allowed he would freak out he would freak out. It's like little things like that that it's like, well, you're, you never been like a girlfriend before. So like you don't know that this is not okay. So I'd be like, oh, I guess this isn't okay. Like, I don't know.

I was just like so manipulated that I just didn't understand like what was happening to me until like it got really bad. What was the first time you noticed that he was abusive or that he did something physical? The first time we did something physical, I feel like was when we went to like college. So once I got to college, we were going to the same college together. that's when it turned physical and that mostly happened like when he was drinking like he turned into like an even worse person I always I said in the book but like his eyes would turn like black like it was like almost like a different person than he was would come out as well and the first

things that happened were like subtle it was more like like pushing and stuff and then it turned obviously like later and I'd talk about like choking and things like that and like shoving and like it and then obviously I was sexually assaulted by him and that happened like multiple times And I don't know how much detail I gave about that, but because I was like, I'll talk about the big events and like the little ones. I'm like, let's just not get into it. Well, you talked about a time where he would like,

he would also threaten in front of you that he would hurt himself, right? He would like cut himself with scissors and you thought he would be doing that to you. Yeah. And you know what I noticed in the way you were writing it was that, you know, you would talk about these sexual things

that you were doing with him. Yeah. But none of it was fun for you at the time. Like, you just did it. Tell me about that. Like, you just did it because he expected it of you because you were like, I'm doing it. It's not fun. And like, those things are supposed to be fun, which I'm sure you later found out, right? Yes, which took obviously some time because I felt during it, it was like almost felt like a chore. It's like how people feel like when they're married for 10 years and they're like, ah, like a lot of women complain about that, right? But like, that's how it felt like when it should be fun, when you're like in a first in a relationship,

when you're experimenting and it wasn't like that. It was, most definitely felt like a chore and, like, work and stuff. And it's like, I literally felt like as soon as I finished tennis practice, he'd pick me up and I knew he would just take me to his apartment to try to, like, do sexual things with me. It's like it wasn't fun. Like, it was just like, I just felt like it was something I had to do or to, like, yell at me and stuff. So I feel, I felt kind of trapped. It's like I did it just to not have a fight, you know?

And like, obviously, like, I could have said, no, I fought back more, but I was just exhausted. Like at that point, and I was just like, hey, like, whatever. You were really caught in it. And also, yeah. stuff on you, right? You said that, like, because you kind of got into the drinking scene and you smoked and you did these sexual things, like, you thought that he could expose you and you could get expelled. Yeah, and he threatened that too. So it's not even like I thought

he could. Like, if I ever tried to break up with him, he'd be like, okay, well, you're, you're screwed now. Like, I'm going to be white and I'm sending them these pictures that I took of you. So, and I'd be like, oh, no, no, no. I was just kidding. Like, I love you. You know, like, I'd have to, like, backpedal really hard because I was like, my tennis scholarship was everything ever worked for. It's like, to have that taken away by this guy who's like running my life would be like devastating. Did you share that with my coach? Right.

Did you share anything about him at the time, like with your sister? Like, oh, I think he might be like a little bad news. No. And I feel like it's because I was so intertwined in it too. And I just like, I was trying to convince myself to that I like loved him. I was like, oh, like I love this person and like this and that. Like when I knew it wasn't like real love, right? Because like sometimes just being around him like just

it honestly he gave me the like all the time just because I was so annoyed by him and like grossed out because I always had to do sexual things. I was just over it. Like he's a very like he's an attractive guy and some great body. But I was like after a while it's just like you don't love that person because of what they're doing to you. And I was like just so grossed out by everything he did, to be honest. But I didn't tell anyone because I mean, I just felt so trapped in it.

And I was like if I tell a friend and they tell my sister and then like, she tries to get me to leave, then she doesn't know I'm being blackmailed, and then I get kicked out. Like, it was just kind of like a big web where I didn't feel like I could tell anyone because I felt like if I did, and my sister's like, you got to leave him, that she doesn't understand that I'm being blackmailed behind the scenes. Even if I told her, like, I know she'd tell my dad. And I'm like, is my dad to try to kill this man? And like, I want to have a dad, not a dad in jail. So like, I was like, I was going through like all these thoughts, you were spiraling and, and seeing like the worst case scenario if you opened your mouth.

Oh, always. Like, and part of me like goes back on like, I wish I did. But the same time, like I was so young. I was like 18 and also 19 during this time. So it was like, I was doing like with the best I thought I could do at the time, you know? And that's part of the reason why the trauma from this is so hard to heal from because I did put most of the blame on myself, honestly all the blame until I went to therapy. Because I was like, wow, you're so dumb. Like, how did you not know? But then I'm like, I had to look back and be like, well, I was 18. Like I only knew what I knew in that moment and I did the best I could like in that moment, you know. but it definitely was making me like a different person too.

Like I was not a happy person during this time. So the worst thing he did was the sexual assault, which you detail in the book. So he basically drugged you, right? Yes. To have sex. Yes. Did you ever find out exactly what was what you took or what he,

what you ingested? No, I don't like it's basically just coming from like assumptions just because at this point I was drinking all the time. Like I was not a lightweight, so for me to not even finish one drink, knowing that like this man had this like little lockbox full of prescription pills. And like some of the things you try to get me to take in the past, like you sometimes be like, oh, I'll take this pill, whatever. And it usually was like clonazepam and things like that. Like when it's mixed with alcohol, it's like memory loss and different things like that. So I don't have like definite proof, right? Because I couldn't know. But like that is obviously my assumption because he had prescriptions for that, like clonopin, like all those ones that. That when you mixed the alcohol, like, lead to memory loss and things like that. And I didn't take anything that night. Like, I remember that was stone colds over. So you just woke up not remembering what happened, but you were just naked and you realized that this happened. Yeah, it's like, I had like, so when I woke up the next morning and like we went to breakfast as I talked about in

the book, like when he was like, oh, we had sex last night. I was like, no, we didn't. I was like, what was me talking about? I like started thinking about it over and over again, trying to remember what happened. I was like, I can't remember anything last night. And then I, the only thing I could remember was like flashes and it was like flashes of him on top of me like I was naked and I was like it's like when you're in a scary dream and you like can't talk like me have a voice or you're trying to run but your legs don't work like that's how it felt being like I don't want to I don't want to you know and that was like the only memory I had of the night was like that and like just two flashes of that pretty much and that was it and so I knew in my gut like

what had happened but I don't know like then he was pinpointing on me like how could you not remember our first time, like, you're the worst girlfriend. And so I was like, then I almost felt like I was like the bad person. He gaslight you. Always. Everything was turned back on to me to where like I just always carried the guilt and the shame. So like when I was trying to heal from all of this, like I put everything on myself. I'm like, why didn't I know? Why didn't I speak up? Why didn't I do this? There are so many things I wish I would have done. But like obviously now, if it was me now, a hundred percent like I would have done. But like back then I just like didn't. What would you have done? what would you have done after today?

Like, you think you would have went to the police? Honestly, yeah. If the same situation happened to now, I would have for sure. Just because of the knowledge that I have now compared to back then and like sticking out for myself and advocating for myself, which I didn't do back then. We'll be right back after the break. So I've told this story before, but I will tell it again

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not skinny 30 or check them out in stores today additional terms and conditions apply you guys i'm coming in hot from the studio we were just saying it's so cold in studio today that's why i'm wearing my columbia amaze puff hooded jacket this is the waistline length one. So it gives a little bit of cropped vibes. And I love this color. This color is tobacco. They also have like more metallic colors. If you're into that vibe, I'm kind of into this like brown shade this fall. This is my new color this fall. Mark my words. It's going to be like the color. Mark my words. Like I said, it comes in three different length. It comes in a waist length, a mid and a long, kind of loving the waist length because when I stand up, it does

give kind of cropped also you know i love a little thumbhole situation i also love how not only is it so cozy warm and comfortable it's also she and that's important because i don't know if you guys remember law roach was on my pod and he was like getting the ick from winter coats and he was like people think that you could just like wear winter coats and look ugly to be warm not the case with this Amaze Puff hooded jacket, you could do both. You could look cute and you could be warm and cozy and comfortable. Also, it's obviously water resistant and this hood that we like. It can come off if you don't want it, you guys.

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That's us. That frinky for the number 4.com. The code is not skinny for 20% off. Go get your boots before they sell out. and thank me later. And we're back. So your saving grace was really that he left school.

Yeah. Honestly, if he didn't, I don't know honestly what would have happened. Like, I don't, I bet I think it would have been so fed up because I was already getting to that point

that maybe I would have just been like, screw it. Like, go ahead and send the photos. Like, see if I care at this point. Because I got to that point where I was so over it. That was like,

if he does do it, like, so be it because I, like, want to die being with him. When you say those things in the book, because you do say you have a dark humor, but you say a few times about wanting to die or not wanting to be alive, like, were those serious thoughts? Like, did you feel that depressed at times that you did have thoughts like that? Oh, yeah. Oh, 100%. Yeah. No, for sure. I mean, I never really was like making a, you know, a plan or anything like that. But it was like, it was like, it was a constant like stream of thought like all the time when I was pregnant. When you were pregnant. So let's get to that. So you, met, and is it Eric just with an A? Yeah. Okay, good. Sometimes I read names and I just make up my own pronunciation. Yeah, I know

that's it. This is straightforward. Okay. So Eric with an A, which is just the tragedy that we hear a little bit about on the show, how you, the father of your first child died in a car crash. In the book, we really get into detail about your relationship,

how your dad was against it, how you got pregnant, and ultimately he died when you were pregnant. Tell me about meeting him. How long after the, the Dick breakup did you meet him? So I had met him one time previously when I was dating Dick, but like obviously didn't think much of him because I was in a relationship. And then I think it was only two, it was two weeks after I ended my like things with Dick. And I, we kind of reconvened because he was hanging out with one of my friends. And so I saw him. And I think that was the first time I really saw him where I was like,

wait, who is that? Like he's like so attractive. I'm like, oh, that's. Eric. And I know I met him like one other time, but like kind of overlooked everything because I was so deep and the thick of that abusive relationship. And I was like, oh, he's really cute. But like the first couple times we hung out, I just saw him as a friend because he's kind of like an annoying little brother or something or he's kind of like trolling me. And I was like, hey, what? And then it was like until I hung out of him alone where I was like, oh, he's actually really cool. Like he's really fun. He just has like a really like he's a big like jokester. Like love to joke around, like have fun and like sometimes be obnoxious. But like he

stopped doing like the annoying things like once I hung out alone with him like he tried to maybe get more like like player vibes and not like a little brother vibes because maybe he liked you yes yes no for sure because in the beginning like I remember he's in the back seat my friend's party kept like reaching his son up and taking snapchats of my double chin and I was like hey you're done like stop doing that like stuff like that where I was like hey who is wow you really loved Snapchat during this time there's a lot of Snapchat in there Snapchat was like the thing I feel like in college like it was like Snapchat Instagram and like everyone Snapchatted like to talk to each other. Do you still Snapchat? People are back kind of on Snapchat though now.

Yeah, my manager is trying to get me on there because she's like everyone's going back on like it's a good like platform. But I just I don't even know how to use it anymore. I know. I know. I look back to it like the all the selfies and the oh my God. It was a it was even a more narcissistic time than I think in. just because it was so self-centered, the snapshot. So Eric seems like a great guy and you meet him and he's not dick, but your dad, your parents, they're like not into him. They don't want this relationship. They want you to break up.

What did they, what is the vibe they got from him? And why do you think they wanted you to, to break up with him? I think it's because they saw like the player vibe, like he looked kind of like a bad boy. And he was. Keep in mind, my parents didn't know that I was like drinking. like partying, having sex this time. So it's like for them, like they assume he was. And they're like, okay, stay away from my daughter, you know, kind of thing. I think that's like a big part of it. And then also because my dad had Snapchat too, because you'd like talk to me through Snapchat

sometimes, not all the time, but like for fun, you know? And like to keep up with like what his kids are doing. And so you can, you know how you could be used to see like the people's top three people they snapped or whatever. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So he was like on the top. But his username was Eric Mac Daddy, 69. My dad told that. And he was like, okay. this is bad news. So, like, yeah, it was a good match at his name. He probably made, like, in middle school or high school, whatever. And so my dad saw that and, like, he's a bad boy kind of thing.

Like, their parents were, like, not a fan of that. And they didn't, I mean, they had no idea about Dick, so they didn't know that, like, you actually dated a really bad guy. Exactly. Before. Yeah. So where are the good Mormons? Because all we're hearing about is, like, like, everyone you dated and you were around was drinking.

like we're doing all the like naughty things. What's BYU you like are most of the people like you guys or most of the people are like straight edge and listening and I would pay most people are listening and good. I think it's like any school. You could go to any school and find like what you're looking for. And so like if you want to go to a school and party, it doesn't matter if it's dry campus. I think you'll find it.

I just so happen to find it very quickly. I wasn't looking for it because I went to BYU and I didn't drink or anything. So it's like ironic that like I go to this like You fell into it And like become this like heartier whatever No like when I It's so funny because I always had the culture shot Going from California to Utah

Going to BYU because my first week there People are very nice. That's what I will say is people are so friendly in Utah So that was a little different for me like Coming from California But I remember like walking down the dorm hallway And there were girls like sitting in like a circle Listening to Frozen and like singing

frozen songs like in a circle and I was like what the hell I was like where am I like I'm Mormon I I don't I follow the rules but I'm not like that you know like it's a little nerdy like a little like are you seven yeah it's kind of like being in like high school or like middle school you know like there's still rules like there's so many of my god even in the dorms like you can't if you have a guy in your dorm the door has to be open and it have you have to have your feet on the ground like you can't have and by that and it's like you know how the beds are kind of raised because you put like your stuff under them. You can't have a guy on your bed. Like, their feet have to be in the grass. They don't want you to like hooking up in the beds or anything. And like there are certain

visiting hours that they could come. Like so it was like very strict there. Very strict, but you got around it and nobody would have found out if you didn't get pregnant. Expose it. Yeah. Well, like yeah, and expose it. But like even then no one like what's written the book, no one knew this in real life because I never got in trouble with Honor Code at BYU. It was like they had this big honor code, but I never got in trouble because I withdrew. So I was no longer a student to get in trouble. So I kind of got away with everything. Wait, you withdrew only when you got pregnant, no?

Yeah. Yeah, no, I did. So, like, all the things I did before then, like, no one knew about because obviously never, no one ever told on me, I never got caught. And then I got pregnant and never got in trouble with Honor Code because I just withdrew. So I was no longer a student to get in trouble. Because if Honor Code would have found out, they would have kicked me out. But they let you come back knowing that you did get pregnant.

Not honor code, but like, I just kind of went around it. Like, I just got my, you had to get this thing called your ecclesiastical endorsement through your church leaders. And so I just got that. Because I was like, did a whole repentance process. Pretty much was it gone for 11 months. Tell me about meeting with this bishop and him basically shaming you and, you know, telling you it's all your fault.

And continuing to have to do that even though you clocked it that he was like this on the first time. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, my parents, I think are, even though I was pregnant, they weren't happy about it. My parents are still pretty chill and stuff. So after I told my dad, like, that it was like the worst experience in my life, I was like so sad.

I was crying to him about how awful it was talking to my bishop. And he was like, if he doesn't let you back in school, my dad was like so mad. He was like yelling. Then he's going to have to go through me. My dad was like pissed. He like obviously treated me that way. And also like my dad's like, if he tries to prevent you from going back to BYU, like after a full year of repentance, like we're going to have some issues here.

So I think I'm really glad that my parents were always very supportive of me. My dad's time just like, well, just kind of kiss his ass and be nice and get that endorsing back. And then who cares, you know? So I feel like my parents luckily, like if my parents weren't as supportive as they were, I think it'd be a lot harder. But since they were always on my side of my team, it made things easier, even though like going through that process with the bishop was just horrific. What if your daughter had to, you know, repent?

Like what would you, would you want your daughter as going to? going to be why you being part of this world like if they were caught doing something like this would you be how would you deal with that like because i know how you felt doing it you know yeah no i i think what this is a lot actually and i first of all i don't want my daughter ever repenting to a middle-aged man like that's just not going to happen like i'm sorry like it's just not and i think it's just tradition in the church my parents are kind of like this is like the steps that you're supposed to do like i don't know and so we're all kind of navigating it together so obviously can't blame them for that. But I mean, I talk to my mom about it all the time.

Like, I'm never having my daughter repent to a middle-aged man. Like, it's just not happening. Like, she can work through it with me or like if she really wants to do that repentance process, I'll be in the room with her with this man. Like, so that's kind of like my thoughts on that. As far as BYU, I even though like obviously I had a rough time there for some of it, like, I also had a great experience. And I love, I honestly love the school. Like I love the, I had great teachers, professors, athletic directors. And so I'm super grateful. for that. So, like, I wouldn't be opposed my kids going there. Like, I would, honestly, I would encourage it.

But, like, if they mess up, like, I'm going to be mama bear. Like, I'm there's no doubt about it. Like, if they're going to get kicked out of the school if they'd mess up, I'd be like, all right, let's go to a different school. Who cares? Like, I don't know. So... Are you raising them in a more in a less traditional Mormon household? Like, you are a Mormon,

but there are things that are allowed? Like, how do you set that, set those boundaries? Yeah, I would say exactly that. Kind of just, we're Mormon. we're active in the church. We follow mostly guidelines, but certain things that I don't agree with

or how things are handled. Like, I'm just going to deal with that on my own. So, like, I mean, I would prefer my kids don't drink and have sex,

right? But, like, if they do, like, there's an open door. You know, like, I'm here for you.

Like, I don't want you to get hurt or get in trouble. Like, let me be there for you. So you don't have to, like, do you don't feel like you have to hide anything.

So that's kind of like my goal. My husband and I have talked about it because he also kind of like, went through a little like party stage in high school and college or whatever. So we're both kind of on the same page where it's like open door like here for our kids. Like they don't have to feel shame or guilt like because, you know, like they're teenagers. Like kids are naturally probably going to have sex before marriage.

Like it's fairly normal, right? Like for Mormons it's not. But like, yeah. So I think just keeping a very open environment making my kids feel comfortable to come to us is very important to me. Yeah. Because do you drink now? Like where are you out?

that you don't i haven't drank since i got pregnant like 20 really yes isn't that wild and i also feel like it's because i didn't handle it well like i did you in the book like right was like all or nothing and so i feel like that's kind of how i have as a personality and i'm like i just don't even want to open that door because i just don't think it would be good for me in general so that's kind of like yeah i mean the way you were writing was kind of like you liked the numb feeling it helped to deal with things. So you're saying the Mormon thing also, but also you feel like you could get out of control with it and you don't want to. Yeah, that's like one of the big reasons is that. And yeah, I just don't know because I think I was a different person back then.

And I feel like I've done a lot to improve who I am. And so part of me is like if I did that again, I know it's not true. But I'm like, would I turn back into that person? Like I don't know. Like I have almost like a little superstition or something. And PTSD and superstition. Like even in a religious context, it's like. like, I mean, I wasn't making great choices, right? If for a Mormon, and then, like, all these bad things happened. And so part of me is like, I know it's not true. And I know God wouldn't do that.

But, like, the superstition in me is like, oh, like, I don't, I don't even want to think about it, you know. So tell me about finding out that you're pregnant, you're dating Eric, you're how old, 18 or 19 or? Yeah, I was 19 when I was dating Eric, yeah. You found out you're pregnant. At first, you totally, you know, you describe really wanting to. which I think you sharing those moments is very vulnerable and I'm sure hard to write and say. But a lot of women have probably felt that before

where you maybe didn't want this baby and it came out of nowhere and you are contemplating a bunch of things. Your family, your dad even told you like to maybe not keep it, right? Yeah. Like were those thoughts? Yeah.

I mean, he was just kind of like, we are here to support you. like with whatever decision you make you know so like you want to give this baby up for adoption like we're here to support you find the best place to do that like and find you the resources to where you could you know give your baby to someone you really trust and like love if that's what you want to do but my parents never pressured me to do adoption they're just kind of like whatever you decide to do is like what you decide to do and we're here to support you which is which i'm super grateful for because if i would have felt that pressure i would have felt guilt keeping the baby and if i would

have felt that pressure maybe i would have given my baby up for adoption option regretted it or, you know, I think that it can also, I think it's so admirable for people who do that. I think for me, if I did, I would have a lot of like what ifs, you know, and I think that would have been hard for me as well to do that. And so obviously I'm so glad that I kept my son because it did honestly change me for the better. Like, I think you read the book. It's like, I went from getting like a 1.9 GPA because I just didn't go to school. I was like, whatever. I'm here for tennis. Like to being like, well, shit, I can be a single mom. So I better get my shit together and I started like trying hard in school and like I overall like improved my

life because of becoming a mom and like and wanting to be the best for my son. And that's what the book is dedicated to him. And that's also why I call him my saving grades because like I feel like truly like not only changed my life for the better, but changed me as a person for the better. Like everything that I went through as traumatic and hard as it was changed me into a lot better person today. And that's so, I mean, he's nine now. Is he nine? He just turned 10 on Sunday. turn 10. That is crazy. It's so crazy. I can't even believe it. Do you see Eric in him, his dad?

Yeah. It's hard to say because I feel like he does look like me, but I think he might be a good mixture. It's just hard to tell. But like he just have like this crazy wild outgoing personality that does remind me of his dad because I was a shy kid. Like I was so shy surprisingly because it's funny. I'm now in doing careers where I'm on camera, but like I was the shyest kid ever. and my son is the opposite. Like he, to me, and I think it's because I was a single mom and so growing up, he didn't really have little friends because then my friends had kids.

And so he's just around adults all the time. Yeah. So everyone always says, like, he talks and acts like he's a teenager. Like, he's like 16. And he, like, teaches me new things all the time. And I always tell him, like, you keep me young. Like, he teaches me, like, all the slang now. I'm like, I'm getting too old.

I don't know the slang. And so he'll teach me, like, all these things, just so funny. But, you know, yeah, it's wild. He's just the best. And when did you, did you tell him about what happened to his dad? Yeah, no, he knows. I told him when he was like four, I think. Like, but obviously he didn't really understand.

And so like if he asked questions or anything, like I'll answer them. He doesn't actually ask that much. Like, I think actually, was it yesterday he asked me a question. I can't remember what it was. He was like, did Eric do this? Or like, was it? And so I like answer them, however. And he also sees his grandparents on that side too.

Oh, so I was going to ask, are you in touch with Eric's parents? Yeah, yeah. So they do live now like 45, 50 minutes away. So it makes it a little bit harder to hang out. But they'll come to his like baseball games. I'll invite him, invite them to his baseball games. And then like we'll do dinner after or sometimes they'll just like take him for a day and step. So he gets to have that part of his dad as well, which is really nice.

That is nice. And does he call Jacob, your husband, dad? Yeah. I mean, he's been his life since he was like 10 months. old. So, like, that's all he knows. It just happened naturally. I never said, like, call him dad. Like, he just did it naturally, which is like, so honestly, it's the best situation it could possibly be considering the circumstances. We'll be right back after the break. This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar. My exclusive snack and hydration sponsor, IQ Bar is the better for you

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So tell me a little bit about losing Eric in this way. You had a fight. Your dad told you so. And by the way, I did not see that coming. You find out that he did fucked up things while you're in a relationship. You're not answering his text. And the next thing you find out is that he's gone via Instagram. So tell me a little bit about, I mean, and you're pregnant at that time with his child.

I mean, insane. I know. Sometimes it doesn't feel real. Like, you just saying that out loud, like, literally gave me chills in my arms. So I, like, forget sometimes, like, all that happened, especially. Like, you write about it, but it's like you, yeah. Yeah. Like sometimes I forget like that all happened to me, which is crazy because it's been like 10 years now, but like sometimes talking about it, it feels like it just happened, which is so crazy. And I think that's why when you watch the show and you see how emotionally I'm going to the crash site, it's because it's like it does feel like yesterday sometimes. Like I think healing grief, like it's obviously not linear as most people say, but it's like, you know, it comes in waves. Even now, it's like I'm happy. But like there's times where I still feel that, you know, usually every March,

just a little somber for me because that's the month he died. So every, like, anniversary of his death, like, it's just a hard day, even 10 years later, which is so crazy. But, you know, in the moment when I, when I lost him, it was just, it was so bizarre. I talked about in the book, about how I called him and just being like, please, like, I hope this is just like a crazy nightmare I'm going to wake up from, like, please answer the phone. So just, like, waiting for that phone to ring and go to, like, the dial tone was just, like, the most devastating thing. And then I called his dad right after. He was so calm. and just told me, like, he passed away.

I don't want you to worry because you know I was pregnant. Like, there'll be a funeral this weekend. Like, I'll send you the information. And, like, he's just really chill, kind of trying to put out fires, I bet, because I bet everyone's, like, reaching out to them. But, no, it's the most devastating thing I've ever gone through my entire life. Like, I've never felt pain that way. Like, I've never felt, like, it was so painful that the pain was, like, physical.

Like, my chest hurt. Like, I couldn't sleep. I couldn't eat. Like, you were pregnant. Yeah. And so everyone was really. really worried about you, I bet. Yeah, I know my mom bless her heart because I was so annoyed with her, but she was like, she like made me sleep in her room the night he died. Like, she made me shower

in her room and she just like sit there and like watch me. I'm like, I feel like I'm being like observed. Like I'm like an animal in a cage. But like when I look back, I'm like, I would probably do the same thing. Like she was worried. Like I think like my mom like, even though she didn't really want to admit at the time. Like, and it's really sad to say, but she definitely thought I was going to kill myself. So like she was like on watch like all the time. And, like, I'm line. Like, on that cruise I went on and I talked about in the book was probably the most depressed I felt because I'm on a cruise with my family. Everyone's married and happy and I'm slipping in my parents' room pregnant and single and lost my baby daddy. Like I, it was devastating. I remember

they played like, everyone's like, you know, you did the cruise take off. Everyone's all happy and dancing and just seeing everyone's happiness and feeling the way I did. I just started crying. Like, I just feel so miserable. Like, and I know I wouldn't actually jump off the cruise ship because I'm afraid of heights, but like I wanted to, you know. know, like my mom knew that. So she wouldn't let me out of her sight. Like, even on that crew, it was, like, everywhere I went. And I think it was towards the end of the pregnancy when I was, like, about to have

the baby where things started getting a little bit better as far as, like, I'm like, hey, like, that was the only thing I had to look forward to was, like, the baby. And so I think it's like what really kept me going to where I started feeling like, okay, like a little bit better. Like, I can do this, you know? But still, I did carve myself to sleep every single night, my whole pregnancy. And once I had my son, like, a lot of my depression and stuff and feeling, of sadness like they didn't subside but like they got so much better that I was like oh my gosh

like I feel so good but as you can read the book like it kind of comes in ways and I'd feel like I got back to school and like lost friends and the depression will come back and like and then kind of go away and come back like that's kind of how it was honestly for years tell me about like blaming yourself because you wrote about that a little bit since you did fight right before how did you deal with that and how did you I hope how did you stop blaming yourself since you fought kind of before. I mean, it took a while to stop blaming myself because in the immediate moment,

I was like, it's my fault. Like, and I felt like that for like the first couple of months. And there's somebody like, what if? Like, what if I didn't text him back? Like, what if this or what if I wasn't rude to him earlier? Like, when we fought and like all these things that like were going to my mind constantly like, you just wish you could turn the clock back. Because in your mind, you thought he went on this ride to like get some air,

Yeah, he did. But do you know that for a fact? I did not know. No, I didn't know. So I didn't even know he was driving when he texted me. So then I look back, I'm like, how would I have known? Like, I had no idea he was driving and texting me. I had no idea.

So it's like I. Oh, but then you find out he was physically driving and texting. It wasn't right before it was during. Yeah, no, like he died sending me a text. Like that's what happened. Like he hit into the car trying to send me a text or he hit it into a truck that was carrying like loads of coal. And so he hit it.

And because they hit so hard, it's in a really dangerous canyon, by the way, too, where people die every year in that canyon, I guess it's dangerous. So regardless, it's like the dangerous canyon. He's texting me and driving. And then he hits head on into the semi-truck carrying coal. And he wasn't wearing as he felt. So he was ejected from the car, like flew through the windshield. And, like, his body was actually pretty far from his car.

Like, I just flew out. And so, yeah, like, even that, like, visual, like, I can still see it in my head when I talk to you about it. It's like I can still picture watching the news report seeing like his body covered in the blue tarp with like a semi circle of cop cars around him because they didn't want people like around to see the body. No, it's just like devastating. Like even talking about it now, it's like I still feel that like heaviness and like grief from, you know, going through that. And like I was obsessed with like watching the news reports. I'm like I need to see like I want to see everything. I want to know everything. Because it just didn't feel real. Like it wasn't

kidding me like I you know it wasn't really real until I went to the funeral and even then like talking about it I'm like I can't I still came and believe it happened you know did you ever feel like anyone else was blaming you like his family or friends or anyone asking you questions like or was it just no just you being hard on yourself it was just me being hard of myself no one ever like blame me in real life until I posted about it on social media and then I had people blaming me like right on people who don't know me being like Oh, because you wrote, you wrote out, like, that you were fighting at that time? No, I didn't.

I just said, like, how, like, my boyfriend died texting and driving. Like, I made TikToks about my story. And, like, I think I made one that, like, hit, like, 50 million views about it. And I was like, it's like that one word, like, you can't hurt me. Like, I went through this type thing. Oh, yeah, yeah. It was one of those. And it was like, my boyfriend died, like, while texting and driving, you know?

And then I, yeah, I had a lot of nasty comments on that one thing, like, you're the reason. He's dead and, like, blow a gloss. Like, But it doesn't phase me because I'm like, I know that's like, that's not true. Like, I didn't know who was driving. Like, I, you know, it's not my fault. But, I mean, it's a hurt. Like, there's still a lot of regret there.

Like, for the things that I said before he passed away and stuff. That, like, the last things you said to him weren't positive. Kind. Yeah, like, they weren't positive. So it's like, that's what hurts. Like, oh, my God, which is different. Forgiven him? Oh, for sure.

Yeah, no. Like, I feel like the only thing that I feel in my heart, for him is like love you know like I still feel like just the only things I really remember are the good moments the happy moments and like just like love because I think it's like I have my son running around like there is part of him right in my house that is really beautiful that is like you know because the same thing could have happened and in an alternate universe where you weren't pregnant and you know he wouldn't have had a legacy and yeah no I know exactly exactly so like how could I feel anything but love when I have a crazy little 10 year old running around. So no, I only feel

like happiness and joy. Like when I talk about him and think about him, like, I don't really think about any of the negative things. Like, unless I get into the nitty grade details, obviously I wrote things in the book. But like, he honestly was an amazing person. And you think back and like everyone makes mistakes. Like he was 19. Like I think that when I look back and remember like he was just a kid. Like, you know, and so it like makes sense and stuff. But no, I only have positive things. to say and like yeah so i feel good about it well thank you for sharing that and and it's all in her book told you so and then flash forward how many years do we meet you on secret lives oh my gosh how many years later is that so so 2015 was one of that was all happening and then we filmed a pilot

for secret lives and i think it was fall of 2022 but the show came out fall of 2024. So as shy you were saying before, girl growing up, would you ever think you'd be on reality TV? Did you have any like yearning to be like famous or known when you were younger? No.

I mean, I think when I was like a little kid, like I think every little kid's like, oh, I want to be famous one day. But like I was never one of those kids who was like, you know, like when you watch old like home movies and it's like, oh, this kid was meant to be a star. Yeah, because they're like singing or whatever. Yeah.

No, that was not me because I was like shy. Like I was the youngest of the family too, so I feel like when I would do stuff like that, my siblings would like laugh at me. So I get like super insecure and stuff. So I mean, it still comes out every once in a while like when I was filming the show like doing interviews and stuff. And sometimes it's to do like, you know, pick up interviews or like, oh, can you repeat like what you said here, you know? I sometimes even now I'll sometimes get shy. I'll be like, oh, okay. Like did I do that okay? Like it's like, oh, it's like even like recording my audio book if I record something and like the even audio producer and you're like listening.

like, oh, like, can you do that again? Like, change the tone of it. And I'm like, in my head, I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, did I sound stupid? Like, that's bad. Like, I'll get like a little shy still. Like, so I still have that in me. But I mean, overall, like, I have no problem, you know, like doing stuff on camera and whatnot.

I think it helped too because in college I did broadcast journalism. So I had to go, like, pack this, like, old fashioned camera around campus and, like, set it up and, like, film myself doing, like, news reporting because, like, it's not as glamorous as it looked. Like, I had to go film myself. And, like, I didn't even. know what I was doing and people would be walking by on campus and like looking at you and so and when I first started now I was like oh my gosh I'm so embarrassed and then like after I'm like

whatever because you have people like coming in and waving I'm like hey get out of my shot like because you get to the point where like you get used to it and you're like hey like let me get my work done like so I feel like that definitely helped with like camera stuff and you know like I learned how to read a teleprompter pretty good and whatnot so I think it definitely helps with like this career I have now so how did it how did the mom talk piece start for you were you doing your own videos and then you join them. Yeah. So I was doing social media already. Like I kind of told my story in a blog. And that's kind of how I even started social media is because I wasn't trying to be an influencer. I was like I just want to tell my story so I can feel like it's going to be

healing for me. But also I know it can help other people, especially like other Mormons who are like, I'm not perfect. Like I'm not worthy. Because that's like that's how I felt. And I wanted to tell my story to help those people and just women in general who have been through like similar things. And so I started with a blog and then I grew like my first 10K on Instagram. And I was like, holy crap, 10 kids is wild. And then which really means nothing. But anyways, that's what I was doing. And I was like also working corporate at the time at an advertising agency.

And I was doing videography on the side for money. Like, I was just doing a lot. Like, I was just hustling because. Which is so funny because in the book, you like thought you weren't going to work a day in your life. You were saying. Yeah. And I'm over here, like, grinding like 60 plus or more hours a week. And then then TikTok started, right?

Like, and I was doing IVF at the time. And I was just like, I don't know, like sad. And I had this, like, video I was sitting on for a while that it was hilarious. It's basically I have my son at the batting cage of my husband. And, like, they're doing, like, hitting balls with the tea. And he hit the ball. And he says, you bitch, I have no idea why he said it. Like, no idea.

I think it's because he watched impractable jokers and they say that word a lot. So anyways, he does that. And then I was like, oh, I never post it. I don't want people to mom shame me. But then I was bored and I was on TikTok. And it was like during right before quarantine happened. And so I, like, posted it. And I got like my first 60,000 followers.

and all these accounts. Like, can we, can we take this? Like, Barstool is picking it up and all these people. And I was like, oh, it's just kind of crazy. And then I was like,

well, maybe I should keep posting on TikTok because maybe it'll be like the new Instagram, you know? And so I just kept posting on it like once a day or whatever during quarantine. And I think after a year, I grew like a million followers.

It was like a year and a half. I had a million. And then I was like, like, 1.2 million when I got invited to mom talk or whatever because I think it was Taylor. How do you get the invitation? Like,

how does it come? Yeah. I'm like picturing like a traders envelope like you have been, no. I wish it was that cool. But like, no, me and Taylor have been following each other on social media for, I think over a year, a couple of years, but at that point. And then I ended up going to a Christmas party where I met Taylor and like Miranda at this like house. And they're like, oh, you should come for next mom talk day.

And it was like, oh, yeah. But at first I was like, I don't know if I'm going to go to that. Like, because they like make these like sexy like hot mom videos. And I'm like, I'm not like, I've heard about the swinging at this point. anything? No, no, this is all before. Yeah. So like I, you know, I've seen their videos and stuff when they were like kind of more like sexy hot mom videos. And I was like, I'm just making like regular mom, you know, mom life videos. I don't think I'm like hot enough to like to their videos. And then I was like, you know what? Maybe I'll go because I like want to make more mom friends,

especially like if they have kids, similar ages. We're in the same career. And like I need to make more mom friends. And so I was like, okay, yeah, like I'm down like and then collab. And it's great for your career. So I was like, cool. So I went to the first like mom talk day. I think it was like two months later. It was like January of 2022. And then that was like the first day where you see us doing the like come here, girl, come to the back. Like that's like that first day. Wait, how many girls were there on that first day? It was me, Miranda, Taylor, Whitney. Did I say Layla? There was like six of us. There was like six. Okay. I thought it started out more. Okay. And who did you, did you know anybody before like Taylor or was she the kind of first person you know yeah I only knew Taylor from social

media then I met Miranda so I just knew them and then I was friends with Michaela on social media for like two years by then so then I invited her to come I was like hey why don't you come with me to this because I don't have someone I like really know well and so then she came the group just kept getting like bigger and bigger and who brought Whitney I think Taylor someone invited her actually in like and then she brought Layla with her I think that's how I worked. What's going on with you and Whitney now? Because I feel like in the last season, you guys had, like, I was kind of rooting for your friendship to, because I liked how you were able to navigate the different friendships, you know, and kind of be like, I don't have to

choose. I can be friends with Michaela and friends with Whitney. But by the end, you weren't really able to do that. I feel like when you tried to meet them up, you were in her ear. It got a little, there were a little bit, I'll be honest with you, like, mean girl vibes in that moment just not from you from the situation of like her not knowing her like doing the alert she wants to get out of there and saying your code word which felt like out of character for you to be kind of not so neutral in that moment so what was that like i think like for me it was like i would kind of go back and forth where like just look at that situation with what happened i think i have to give context the backstory of it all is because you know she didn't come to my baby mom event which

like to me like people don't see like it wasn't about her not coming to the event like that was just kind of like the tipping point for me it was like everything leading up to it because I was always in the middle of her kind of trying to defend her constantly like off camera I'm like texting hey how are you doing like sending her cookies to her house like just trying to be a great friend and then it's like the one time I need support like you're not there and like also to give more context because I don't know you'll remember if you heard about like how she posted her text online. Like, like after, I think it was right after the show came out, being like, I did text her about her event. So like, so that's kind of like, kind of where all this problem comes from is

that like, like, I texted her being like, you did not just unfollow everybody. Because, you know, you had that scene in the show where like, she had followed us. And like, I was like so caught off guard in that moment. I was like, she didn't. Like it looked. I was like, you did not unfollow everyone. But I wasn't like being rude. I was just like, I was like shocked. You know, I was like, oh my gosh. Like. And then she was like, I think mad at the way I texted her that. And she was like, I need boundaries, blah, blah, blah. I don't know the exact words, but long and very short,

she was kind of pissed in that moment, like almost at me too. And then I don't think I respond to her last message because I was sitting there filming. And I didn't want to be like, oh, Whitney's texting me saying this. And I expose, like, what she's saying to everyone because I wouldn't do that.

And then she texts me again, like, I want to say 20 minutes after that, after she's already heated, saying like, hey, and by the way, I'm not coming to your event. Like, I'm so sorry, blah, blah. So in my head, I was like, oh, she's heated in this moment.

So she's like saying this because she's upset and she'll probably try to come, you know? And like she was already kind of mad at me. So I was like, I'm not, I didn't want to expose that text on the show either being like, oh, she has text and saying she's not coming to my event because I didn't want to do that. You know, I was like trying to almost protect her in that moment. So her later on exposing the text and being like, see, I did text her. And she's not showing that it was multiple days before the event. It wasn't the night of the event, which I'm like, that's when I needed support.

And I also left it open ended for her because I was like, I don't want to. guilt trip her into coming to support me. Like, I don't want to ever ask my friends to support me. I hope they would do that naturally, especially because I try to be a good friend. I try to support all my friends. So that was one thing on why I didn't respond back to her. And then also because I was like, I think she's just angry right now and like needs to cool down.

Like, she used to do this a lot where she kind of make rash decisions in the moment. I'm not doing this. And then she would do it, right? Like before the show even was a thing, she'd like, I'm not doing the show. I am doing the show. I'm not doing the show. So she kind of goes back and forth. So I was like, I'm just going to leave this here.

and then like I so I assume she would come and she didn't for a long explanation which like obviously hurt because I was like I've done a lot you know to try to be your friend and then filming wraps and I still was reaching out to her I feel like I'm trying to be there for her and stuff and it wasn't really reciprocated like pretty much at all and I was just like okay like whatever and then the show's about to come out and she started getting like more chummy with me again and we were trying to like become friends and navigate it and like work through it and like I think we had conversations being like okay this is like how I felt in that moment and like we kind of just trying to hash it out right and then out of nowhere

she just like post my text online between her between us to try to make me look bad though like there was no context there was no dates shown that it was multiple days before almost to make me look like I'm a liar which is not the case and so I feel like because of that I was like really frustrated but we still tried to like work through that but that's when michaela started like very much just liking Whitney because Nikila and I are like best friends too. She was protective of you. It was protective. So her resentment, I think a lot of it comes from that, you know?

And so that like it's like a protective mechanism. And throughout season two, which you see like, they cut a lot of the conversations out of season two that we had. But it was like the reason why I started feeling resentment towards her again. Like I got over it. I was like, I'll navigate these two friendships. But I started to feel that resentment again because I felt like she kept bringing up the past, but justifying it.

And I was like, wait, like. I remember that, yeah. She didn't regret it. She couldn't say, I asked her, she was on my pot and I remember telling her, like, you couldn't say, I regretted it. Like, she got so stuck on the, like, literal meaning of the regret. Yeah. Of the regret.

Instead of saying, like, I should have been there. She was like, I can't regret it because I didn't do it. Like, she just wouldn't give it to you. No, and even then we had conversations off camera where she's like, let me look up the definition of regret. And then she was like, and she was like, oh, I guess I do. So in that moment on the, you know, I know, so on the truth box in Arizona, I wrote that question.

Because I was like, this will make her look great. Like, this will kind of justify like everyone will be happy because I think people did still feel those feelings like when you can't like take ownership for this, right? And so I wrote the question, like, do you regret not coming to make the bank? But I thought she was going to say yes. And then she said no again. And I was like, whoa, like, what is happening? Like I was so caught off guard.

so that was like doing this to help her in a way you know, I was like, and everyone will be cumbaya, everyone will be friends and like, blah, blah, blah. And like, so that kind of like sucked again. So like now I think we're backtracking again. And like, we had other conversations in this season like in New Orleans that were cut where she basically was like, well, the me and so and so post these texts online.

But when I do it, it's bad. And I'm like, because they were fighting. You weren't fighting when you did that. Like I think we had a lot of moments where I felt like she was justifying like what she did like to me. And I was like, wait, you just got to say sorry. And like we can move on. Like, why don't keep bringing it up?

like so I feel like I started harboring resentment again for Whitney and it kind of carried through season three and like I just felt this so yeah are you now yeah so like long story short I'm like that was a long explanation I think I had to get context I don't think I've ever actually explained this in a podcast before but actually like I feel like over time Whitney has made a love improvements and I feel like she I want to say like I'm feeling like the old Whitney is coming back that I like love but like I do feel like she has made a lot of improvements and like self-reflection and, like, has been a little more selfless. And honestly, like, I feel like me and Whitney are good. Like, I genuinely like her. Like, I don't know what else to say

about it. Like, I, I, like, rooting for her. Are you supporting on Dancing with the Stars? I was just going to say that. Yeah. You got to text for one, one of the girls. Who are you texting for? Oh my gosh, both. I'm sorry. Like, call me a friends writer all you want. Like, I will not be picking sides. Like, obviously, like, people want to. this too, and I bat on the show. They're going to want us to do, right? And people will, but I genuinely, like, am so excited. Are you voting though? For real. Are you texting? Are you voting? Yeah. You are. Because you can get 10 per, you get 20 total, I think. It's like 10 per person. So you're doing it. You're doing it. Okay. Yeah. 10 and 10. Do you think the rest of the girls are?

Unless someone pisses me off, then I'm just kidding. But yeah, no, I know they are. I'm pretty sure. I mean, I haven't asked, but I'm assuming they all are. But like, as far as right now, Like, I love Whitney. I am so excited for her on Dancing with the Stars. Like, I genuinely feel like. And she's, like, radiating light, like, right now. Like, I just feel like she feels so much happier. Like, I'm just, like, stepping into her authentic self and just, like, I think she has,

like, progressed a lot. And so I have, like, nothing but, like, you know, love. Like, the past and the path, I did feel like I had to explain it because I wanted to just, like, say how I felt. What, if everything's kumbaya, what are we going to see in this new season? Or is the, what's going to buckle up? It's crazy. I like, obviously can't give too much away, but like...

Give something. Give a little tease. Give a little tease. I will say, like, sometimes we go into filming where I was like, what are we even going to film? Like, nothing crazy is happening. I'm not kidding. I think it was day one or day two. I walk in and it was like a shit storm. And I was like, what is happening? Like, it was, it's just, it's a little bit messy. But like, I feel like this season is probably my favorite because I did get to see it ahead

of time. And the one thing I did love about this season is because a lot of times and we're like, oh, they're mean girls. like they like you're not real friends and blah blah and i think it's too because like sometimes the fun stuff gets edited it out right because there's so much drama going on and i do feel like this season they kept some of that fun like light feeling in it at least in the first half i felt that a lot i was like hey this is fun because it's like showing like little things about our personality it's showing some humor it's showing like some of the bloopers that like normally don't make it in right because they polish things like the interviews right like it's like

little bloopers in the interviews of like you saying side comments that like make it in so i thought that was really fun and honestly I do think this season is so far like my favorite I would say okay so excited wish you could give us like a little storyline some some to grab on to I know we'll have to wait we'll have to wait I don't want to get in trouble how you're feeling about your BFF TFP becoming the new about oh my gosh oh my gosh I am so excited like for multiple reasons because I'm like this will finally be like the split up for and baby daddy because we all know that's been a mess but You think that this will, like, mark the end of it for real.

I'm praying for it. You hate him. You're his biggest hater, no? So I would say yes. I was like, I don't hate, I don't hate him. I just, like, dislike him with Taylor. Like, if he's going to do his own thing, like, I, and I said this to him, I was like, I genuinely, like, wish you the best.

I don't think you're a bad person, but you are with Taylor. And I think that, like, something between the two of you is just messed up. And, like, it's never going to work. So, like, please, for the love of God, like, just move on and she, used to too and like so you can both be happy and you can like co-parent like amicably like that's all i want for you guys like i don't hate him by any means i just very much dislike him with taylor so what kind of guy do you want taylor to find on the bachelor who would be your dream guy for her i think someone's like based on taylor and what i know like that she likes is like someone very

down to earth obviously someone who's really good kids loves kids wants to be a dad she likes guys who can like get their hands dirty i will say so she kind of likes she always like cowboys, but I don't think she wants like a real, real cowboy, but I mean, I would just love someone who's a little more calm, someone who can handle like chaos and they're just kind of like, I don't want to say calm her down, but like someone who's more chill who can like balance balance everything out and they're just like supportive of her, you know, because I don't think she's had that in the past with, you know, Dakota. Does she mind a non-Mormon? Oh, no, she, I don't think she cares at all. She doesn't care. So this will be like a pool of guys.

Yeah. As far as I know, I don't think she cares about it, they're Mormon or not. I think that she wants them to, like, be Christian or something like or, like, have a belief in God and stuff. But I don't think she cares that they're Mormon. Do you think you will be going on the show and, like, giving her advice in an earpiece? I mean, I hope so. So I feel like I'd be really good at that. Like, I feel like I'm really good at, like, sticking out the red flags now for my past.

I think you do need me to help you out. Like, I would love to because I think it would be fun. But we'll see what. happens. I don't know. They'll let me. This is our official pitch. Okay, Hulu? And I'm like, Macy, thank you so much for coming on. You're a gem. Yes. Thank you. You guys. Macy's book, I told you so. It's so good. You will learn so much more about who you are. And hopefully we'll also get more of you and all those other sides that you've been wanting to show. Yes. Thank you so much. It's been so fun. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of

Not Skinny but Not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny but Not Fat. Subscribe to the podcast, so you don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcasts and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocheroo. Thank you guys so much for listening. And I'll see you next Tuesday. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial.

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