Not Skinny But Not Fat - Patrick J. Adams: Girl Dad, Leaving Suits, and His Taylor Sheridan Era

Episode Date: March 31, 2026

Patrick J. Adams is here and we obviously get into the Mike Ross of it all: from the Suits audition to leaving at the height of it, and what it was actually like coming back. We talk about being a girl dad, his low key, very non Hollywood marriage to fellow actress Troian Bellisario, and his new Taylor Sheridan show The Madison (amazing btw!!!) Plus, working with Michelle Pfeiffer, and if he ever got his hands on some Meghan Markle jam (spoiler alert: I did!)This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episodeVisit wedderspoon.com and use code NOTSKINNY20 at checkout for 20% off your first orderVisit yasso.com for more informationTo explore coverage, visit ASPCApetinsurance.com/NOTSKINNYGo to ro.co/safety for boxed warning and full safety information about GLP-1s for freeGet $25 off your first purchase when you go to therealreal.com/notskinnyGo to homechef.com/notskinny for 50% off your first box and free dessert for life!Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Welcome back to the Not Skinny Bonafat podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Hirsch, and I still can't believe that I get to chat with some of my favorite stars on my very own podcast, where you'll feel like you're just talking shit with your best friends in your living room. So I literally ran to record my intro today because the fucking T is teeing, the world of reality TV is on fire. It's on fucking fire, guys. And first of all, hi, hi, hi, everybody. Hi. I love you. I miss you. I adore you. Can't wait for you to hear this episode. Let's, let's just discuss a few things before. So there's Summer House, which I just caught up on the Kyle and Amanda Biddle. First of all, first of all, I will say that like Andy saying, Kyle has never looked this bad in 10 seasons after Kyle has, like, cheated on Amanda in seasons. Like, and, you know, I was like, Andy, why did you do that?

And then I watched it delayed, of course, so everybody kind of talking about it. I was like, oh, my God, this is going to be the most insane thing. And like, yes, it wasn't, it was not great for anybody involved, but try to be in my shoes where, like, I thought it would be worse. Like, it was awful, but I thought it would be worse, you know? But it's just obvious at this point in the summer that, you know, she's over his shit, she's done. And he is feeling that she's done. and he's also like leaning in kind of. Like he even says in this confessional gloss episode,

like I know that everything I was doing this summer was, you know, just fucking turning her off and, you know, making her take one more step towards like separation, basically, like all the fucking things. But like I said, like obviously she's fucking over his shit and anybody could tell, like, you know, a fly could tell that she's over a shit. I have said this before.

I'm so happy that they got separated. I'm so happy. It makes me happy. Like, there's no kids. Like, they can go their own ways and, like, be done. He is posting a lot of her since they broke out, which is, like, weird. Like, I've seen people say, like, is he posting more of her now? Like, that's a little bizarre.

But they seem to be on good terms. Who doesn't seem to be on good terms is Amanda and Sierra. Now, I have two sides of me. The side where is, like, where there's smoke, there's fire. And the other side, which is, like, Amanda would never do that. to Sierra. Like Amanda knows the deep, deep ache Sierra has for this boy West, okay? It was absolutely adorable both on this finale. And, you know, I've met him and I adore him. Like, he is, like, he's just adorable. Like, he's just one of those people that you immediately want to be close to

and talked with and all those things. And we did see that Amanda and Wes are hanging out. Like, I've seen TikToks of them, like, eating, doing muck bings or whatever the fuck. However, at the beginning, when this rumor came out that Amanda and West hooked up, I was like, oh, my God, no, like, no, she would never fucking do that to Sierra. Now, after a bit, it's like, okay, they really aren't engaging with each other in social media. I never truly noticed, to be honest, like, how much they engaged with each other before. Like, I don't think, like, engagement on social media means, like, what the friendship is. But at the same time, like, there's nothing really. And also the rumors are rumoring.

I just, somebody sent this to me, and this is totally unverified, but like somebody just sent me that someone got a blind that was like somebody saw Amanda N. West hugging up in Amanda's apartment and then showed the picture, like took a picture and showed it to Sierra the night before Amanda and Sierra were supposed to do. And like in Amazon Live to promote this brand. and they ended up doing it apart. So that was another, like, it was announced that they were doing it together,

and they ended up doing it apart. So all this is adding smoke to the fire or logs to the fucking barbecue. Okay, because, like, what the fuck is happening? This would be obviously mind-blowing. What I could see happening is, like, Amanda and West, super close. We saw they got super close last summer.

He was there for her. You know, could be that they were hanging out as friends. Super close as friends. So two options. Super close as friends. She's hanging out with him every night. Maybe she's falling asleep on his couch. Maybe whatever. I don't know. Maybe Sarah just got pissed at that. Like, okay, you guys are being like way too close and like I don't feel comfortable. Option two, they're hanging out. They're getting really close friendship, whatever. And something slips. However, it's like wild how like something slips and it gets to people. However, I did hear that West was like talking about it. I know. It's like wild. It's so layered. And like, because I like love them so much, I, of course, don't want to believe it. But at the same time, like, a lot of things are pointing to this happened. And that's just mind blowing. It just would be mind blowing. It just would be on mind blowing. At the same time, I can't believe I'm moving on from it, but I need to. At the same time, we have Secret Lives of Mormon Wives drama, which, of course, we have the tankie, tankie, for her, for, Taylor, Frankie, Paul of it all. But that has kind of not blown. over, but we're kind of like fatigued. We're like, oh, her ex-husband made another. Like, what is he saying? Oh, Dakota made a third domestic violence allegation.

Okay. Meanwhile, Jesse and Jordan fell for a divorce, whatever. That was so, we saw that coming. Chase and Jesse hooking up. I saw it in a blind on Demois. However, Miranda pretty much confirmed it in a TikTok being like, why are all my friends looking up with my ex? and then posting the flowers Jesse sent her that said, like,

I'm so sorry that you like, that I made you feel bad. And it's like, are you sorry for hugging up with their ex? Anyway, what? Like, pick off the damn camera. I was like, what is this messiness? What is going on in the same reality TV, a world? Not the same because this is the OG of the OGs. We have a Laguna Beach fucking reunion, which I thought, like, when I saw it,

I was like, okay. And then seeing them, first of all, Elsie. whatever that fucking bitch. That fucking bitch disappeared from our lives for like 10, 15 years. I mean 20, technically. This is because it was 20 years ago.

Meanwhile, she's making fucking bank with like lines at coals and Walmart and wherever the fuck you can make loads of fucking money. Okay, she's so smart. She's so like fucking in and out, babe. She got in, she got out. She's making her buck. She has her family.

Like, she's so fucking smart. And then she comes back. Classy. as fuck for this reunion looking amazing, like looking amazing. And I mean, Kristen looks amazing, but the difference is like we see Kristen all the time. Like Kristen is telling us every day who she's up with. So we're like, hey, Kristen, what's up? Stephen, he was just on the traders. Like, L.C., like walks in, like, take my breath away. Take my freaking breath away. You know, who else? I love to see talent. Okay, talent. Talent is like up on here making like ticsoggs

up the wazoo, but like, got to love it. Got to respect to all. Anyway, I thought that was. was like a very good recap of reality TV and what's going on in the world. And on we go, on we go. Onward we go into today's episode, while that got me in the mood. Thank you. Thank you.

See, this is my bread and butter. Until today's episode, today I have somebody on, you know him, you know him from one of the best fucking shows they're ever, you know him, he's that guy from that show

that you watched because that girl became a princess. Boom. Boom. But maybe you watched it before the girl became a princess. Or maybe we rewatch it after she became princess. Princess, yes. Or maybe you watched it after. Maybe you watched it before. Whatever it is. It is Patrick J. Adams. You know him. You love him from Suit. He also has a beautiful family. He's married to Trojan from Pretty Little Liars. They have three adorable daughters. And he's now in this new show called The Madison,

a new Taylor, a Sheridan show that I am obsessed with. Michelle Friott. Fifer leads the show. It's a group of women and Patrick J. Adams. And it's just, oh, my God, eating it up, eating it up with a spoon. It is all hard. It makes you emotional. And it's just beautifully done, beautifully shot. Like, I just saw yesterday somebody, I mean, there was an article that was like, this is Taylor Sheridan's like, most watched or best. And I'm like, wow, like he did Yellowstone, 1923, 19, fucking 47. And I think this is the best, but apparently everyone else is too. So Patrick J. Adams is here to talk about the show, talk about it all. If you think I didn't tell him about my note from Megan, you are mistaken.

Hi. Welcome. Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming. It's so good to be here. Patrick J. Adams. Jay? Yes.

Can we talk about the J for one moment? I would love to. Okay. Is it the middle name Joe. Johanus. Okay. That's what I thought. I was in like Bach.

Right. Yes. That's what I thought. That is the most obnoxious thing I've ever said. I've never said that, and I will never say it again. I don't know where that came from. Okay, because I was thinking. But it is Johannes.

It's Johannes. And then what was the decision to stick with the J? And have it like, even today, like your publicist's text it. I'm with Patrick J. Adams. Yeah, I don't know. Actually, someone asked me that the other. I think when I joined SAG, there was already a Patrick Adams. I think it was as simple as that.

And they were like, so what I think you can't have the same name or at least when I joined SAG. You couldn't. So we went with Jay Adams. But the more I think about it, it's interesting because when I was a kid, Michael J. Fox was like really a hero. Yeah. Back to the future. That was like he was a good Canadian kid that, you know, became the most famous person in the world. So he was sort of iconic to me.

So I don't know if that got in the back door somewhere and informed it. It was not conscious. Yeah. No, we hear of the sag stories. Like an Emily, I think Emma Stone became because there was an Emily. Like there's always stories like that. I wish I'd chosen a better name at that point, like a hard pivot. Like a stage name?

We just had a daughter and we almost named her August. We love the name August Adams. Yeah. And I wish my name were August Adams. Oh, wow. I wish I could go back in time. Wait, you didn't share your new daughter's name yet, right? Oh, I guess I haven't.

You haven't secret. Okay. I can break the news here. Her name is Imogen. I love that. Do you love it? Are you going to call her Emmy? We're rehearsing nicknames.

Okay. We've got Emmy. We've got Moji. Oh, that's so pretty. We're seeing what sticks. But Imogen. Yeah. I love that.

And I feel like Adams is such a good last name. Adams kind of makes you pick a vowel as a first name. So we have Aurora. We have Elliott. And then we kept trying to not use a vowel, but it just sounds too good. The alliteration. So what happened to August? How did August fall, like just Imogen?

I don't know what the thing you were destroying and I just were like kind of toiling over. We didn't name her for two weeks. Really? Yeah. Like you didn't submit the paperwork in the hospital. Well, we didn't do the hospital. We did a home birth.

So, yeah. Oh, my God. So you don't need to name them for quite a while. You did the tub. We, you did. You were in the tub. I was. Yeah, it was all me.

It was all you. I'm doing most of the work. No, she was in the tub. We had some amazing midwives who came to the house and helped. Yeah. And she was two weeks late. So there was a lot of waiting around. Wow.

But our second daughter was born in the front seat of a car, which was much more dramatic. Wow. Which is why we decided to do a home birth. Because you. Because the second time was so clear that Trojan was capable of having a baby on her own without medical intervention. Yeah. She just did it. So we were like, well, it seems like if you did it in the front seat of a car, we could probably make it a bit more comfortable at home.

So it was, you know, it's always scary because you don't, you know, you're scared something's going to happen and you're going to need to go to the hospital. But we had really good people around us. So you didn't have to go to the hospital at all. Like we could do a home birth. You don't have to go right after. nothing. No, no, no, no. Only if something's going wrong and they send you. So how did you support her in the homebirth? What was your role? Oh, God. What do I do? I don't know. What does that even do when they're watching their wife care? Like, just show up. Yeah. I think probably just advocating for her.

The one thing I think I could tell, I knew how quickly she could have a baby because of the car. And the midwives, I think just having not been there with her that time, maybe their instincts weren't quite as clear. So when they showed up, I was already filling up the tub and getting the water in there, and they were doing their thing and getting ready. And she was like very, she's the sweetest woman in the world. She was like, so when do you think I might be able to get into the tub? She asked really nicely. And they were like, there's no rush dear. We're doing our thing. And they just, I know her voice well enough to know like, that means put me in the bathtub right now. So I was like, actually, I think she needs to go. That was just my job. It was just to be like, that's Troy and for,

me in the water immediately. And they were like, okay. And they heard me and she got in the water and we had a baby 10 minutes later. Did your other daughters come in the room? They were sleeping. They were sleeping. It was a night, which was perfect because I don't think they needed to. Yeah. We would have welcomed it if they wanted to, but I don't think they were. They're seven and seven and four. Seven and four. Yeah. And then now a third daughter. Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy. And then a month after I've left to come, you know, sell a show and travel around the world. So my brain is scrambled eggs, but it's so exciting. Timing is always like funny like that. Yeah. But you got to hang out with the newborn baby. Yeah. And you know as a dad too,

you have two kids. I have two kids. Yeah. So like dads aren't really, they don't really come online for a baby. Like my job is to look after the other two. It seems to be. Yeah. I'm seeing that I'm most useful in being present for them and drop off and pick up and yeah and and hanging with them while she's in that protective baby bubble. So I haven't really had much. Troyan's amazing. She's like, you need to lay down with the baby. Like put the baby on your chest and just go to sleep.

And I'll be like, okay, and I love it. But it's like not quite my job. My job is to hang out with my other two daughters and do whatever I can for Troy. Yeah, the newborn phase is. I don't love it. Like some people love that fate. I like it like when they're a little bit.

You as a mom didn't love it either. I know, no. As a mom. No, no. No, not just mental. I love that you're saying. No, I think it's much more common. As a mom, get bigger, have more body, weight. Yeah.

Don't let. Like, even they're screeching. Like, the way they cry and it's like so stressful, it's like a stressful cry. Yeah. And you have to feed them and wake them up. And if they don't gain weight, like it's too stressful. I like when they're a bit bigger. I find it very stressful, but I am also the man in this situation.

So I'm hyper aware that, like, I'm not doing really any of the things that I could be considered it's stressful. But I totally relate to that. I feel that way. It's amazing to watch her this time round. I think there's a muscle that's kicking in where she, you know, I think this is our last kid that we're going to have. I think that's, I think that's the game plan. And so I think there's a part of her that's like, I'm going to enjoy this part. Yeah. I'm really going to dig in and do this. There probably would be, I could see that happening. Like being like, this is the last. So like, you know you're fucking done after that. Yeah. I think we're done. I think we're done. Did you, were you hoping the third was a boy?

It's a good question. No. I mean, it's a terrible question. I hate that question, but I also have to ask that question. No, I get it, and I've been thinking about it a lot.

I would have welcomed a boy. I would have welcomed that experience, but I think I was super worried about being a dad to a boy. I've grown up with women. I have two sisters. I've had two daughters now. Like, I just feel like it makes more sense to me being and going through things.

and being a girl dad just like totally tracks for me. The idea of like I'm not a sport, not that you need to do any of this with a son. It's such a cliche, but like I'm not a sports guy. Yeah. I don't go to football. I don't do any of these things.

They can sometimes be things that boys do. And I feel like, you know, complicated relationship with my own father. Like there's just a lot there that while it would have been good to maybe go through that experience, I was like, I was all good with not. Yeah. And we didn't know it was a girl.

Oh, you. until she was born. This time or her own? Was this the only time you did that? No, Elliot, our second one, we didn't know either. What I find interesting are the people that then need to weigh in on their opinion of what the sex is. You know? Yeah.

That's the one reason to just find out because you have to deal with so many people who are like, it's a girl. Yeah. I feel it. I feel it. I feel it. Like based on what? I can sense it. And then you want to call all those people who got it wrong after just be like, by the way, you were wrong.

Yeah. Yeah. Did you have a feeling, though? I had a feeling it was a girl. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a thing. I feel like now we know, well, now that we're in the baby world, I'm like, okay, if you have two of the same sex, like it's probably going to be the fucking same. I think that's statistically. Yeah. That's true. It's like 75% chance that it's going to be the same. But I think just now I'm catching on to those things because I'm in the world. Yeah. Because I have two boys. Two boys. How old are they? five and almost two.

Oh, wow. You're in it too. I'm in it, yeah. And by the way, like very sports. And I even like, I'll yell on my husband because he's not super sporty. And I'm like, throw a football with him in the yard, you know, just because you see those things on TV. The pressure to do that. To do and like look all like, come here, your son. It's just so silly.

I mean, it would have been amazing to have a son and to learn that new experience. But the truth is, you know, I have other young kids in my life and people who have, like, you have other relationships with kids too. And maybe they'll want to play sports, your girls. Yeah, of course, of course. Probably not thus far. He hasn't come up yet. Because there's just no exposure to it. I mean, it's like whatever they want to do, we would do it.

But neither Troy and I were like sports people. So we're not, we don't even think of, well, Elliot's in soccer class that she's sort of into. She's so young at this point. But we're not like the parents that are like, let's go to baseball. Let's go to soccer. Right, right, right, right. So maybe whatever they're interested in, we'll let them chase it down. Are the girls excited about their new sister?

They love it. Yeah. My oldest, Rora, our oldest is really engaged with that. She's really like, come online. She can help. Well, she's also experienced being a big sister. Yeah. So it's interesting to see, like, it's not new for her.

For Elliott, it's been a bit of adjustment of like, wait a minute, I was the cute one. Right. Or wait, why is that, what's this new energy? But she's old enough to not like regress, you know? I think we're getting a bit of a regression right now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Just a little. bit, nothing crazy, but some stuff started happening that she's presenting that now we're thinking, oh, maybe this is what they mean. Just like, and it's weird. She's smart. She like, buries it as a medical thing. Like, this hurts. So you're as a parent, you're like, oh, I want to attend to something that hurts or feels

weird. And now we've discovered that it actually is probably not really happening. Right. Yeah, it's weird. They just need that, like, one-on-one time. That's what we were doing. And Troy, it's so good at that. I mean, she's alone with them right now.

She's alone with them right now? Yeah. Well, they're at school, but in general, right now she's solo. Oh, my God, the timing. The Madison. She's an amazing woman. The timing of the Madison coming out. Yeah.

I watched a couple episodes. Oh, you got to see some. I got to see some. Oh, great. I love it so much. Thank you. I'm devastated because Michelle Pfeiffer like rips your fucking hurt out. Isn't she insane?

In, this is a true story. I was watching the second episode yesterday. my mom came over. My little sister actually just had a baby too. And like a five-day-old tiny five-pounder. So my mom is around us all the time. So my mom came over and I was like, Mom, Michelle Fifer is back in this show.

And I was like, you can't watch it with me because I'm in it. But like you need to watch. And I let her watch it when she was on that hill telling the family like what she's going to do. Yeah. I was like, fucking watch her. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean some of the scenes we were watching, I had seen it already on my last. sort of watching it through my hands because I hate watching myself. And last night we had the premiere here and it was the last chance we'd have to sit in front of an audience and watch it. So I was like I gave into pure pressure and it was a not great experience for me personally, but to sit and watch her performance on the big screen and just see how. I mean, we already know she's Michelle Fifer. She's the best of the best. But I think what she's doing on the show is like kind of unbelievable.

I've never seen her give in a performance like this. Yeah. It's kind of like a comeback slash not slash resurrection. Yeah. It's weird to say comeback. She hasn't really gone anywhere. It's just an evolution. It's just like, oh my God, she's still got this gear. She's got still got new gears that we didn't, you know, know, I don't know. It's crazy. We'll be right back after the break. A quick message from today's sponsor, the ASPCA Pet Health Insurance Program. So we literally insure everything from our cars to our trips, to our phones, like everything, insurance, insurance.

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and go to row.com slash safety for boxed warning and full safety information about GLP-1 medications. And we're back. So tell us a little bit about this show. Like what it's about? Yes. Set it up. Set it up.

So we have a New York City family, the Clyburns, who are very well-to-do family, which is Stacy and her daughter's Abigail and Paige. and I'm married to Page. Anyway, through a very sudden and tragic loss, they're forced to head to Montana to deal with it. And so they are very much out of their element. And there's sort of a standard, I think,

modern American city family where they love each other, but they're very disconnected. They're in their own worlds. They're on their phones. And through the events of the show, they're sort of forced to kind of completely reimagined what their lives look like and deal with each other. and do it in this very beautiful, you know,

Montana rural setting that they are very uncomfortable in. So the, so this is a Taylor Sheridan show. Yes. And I felt like it was so different than the other ones. I felt like it was, because I loved Yellowstone and Landman, but I feel like this is like you get the vibes,

the scenic visuals and everything, but less soapy. You know what I mean? Like it felt like more, just like heart. I'm telling you, I was, like, I was feeling it so hard, first of all,

and it made me think of you in that way because you're, so this whole family, like Michelle Pfeiffer, she's the matriarcher of the family, and they're all girls. And there you are, stringing along as the plus one husband.

Yeah, just trying to figure out how to be helpful. Just trying to figure out it. So you play this sort of like a yuppie. Yep, yep. Yeah, New York. finance guy who loves his wife. But like, you know, he's going to the Soho house and just stoked to be trading stocks and bonds.

I mean, I know nothing about finance. But you know what I mean? Like, he's just living that New York life and eating at fancy restaurants. And but he loves his wife. So he's willing. So, yeah, you could tell that he really is willing to do. That's what I loved about him. Yeah.

But this thing happens. And I think there's a version of this guy that would be like, okay, good luck in Montana. Right. I'll see you. I'll see you back here when you get back. I'll hold the fort down, but no way. He's like, no, I'm coming with you. And especially because the wife isn't easy.

By the way, she's terrific. She's going to... It's her first show. I looked her up after. Yeah. Because I was like, do I know her? And then it said, like, projects this. And I was like, she's going to blow up.

She's really good in it. Yeah, she's really good. I loved working with her. It was so cool to work with someone who's so green, too. Yeah. But she's just so unencumbered with an idea of what this business is. And she's so... excited and so grateful. Yeah, she's a great scene partner. L. L. Chapman. And I love your chemistry

together, but also I love your chemistry with Michelle. Yeah. Because you guys have like a banter. Yeah, it was cool to find that. You can't like, she likes to, but like maybe you annoy her a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. I think she has respect for me. She can tell that I've showed up. But like, I'm so far from, you know, the kind of man that she had married. Right. You know, like I have so much to live up to. So she, I think, is grateful that I'm around and clearly love her daughter, but it's like, come on, Russell, let's go. Yeah. Russell. What was it like then acting in those scenes with her?

With Michelle? Yeah. Oh, man. She is, well, she's the greatest actor, like, just so, she makes that part so easy. What's hard for me is I get very starstruck by people who I have, like, an enormous admiration for. It's not that you're famous. It's just, like, I've watched everything that you do. Yeah.

I am so enamored with your work. And then you meet her and she's so down to earth and she's so disinterested and participating in any of that kind of mythos. Like she's like, put that away. We're here to work. But I couldn't put it away. You couldn't. I can't.

You would like watch her. Well, and I would go and watch other movies. I don't know what I was thinking, but in preparation, not even in preparation. While I was working, I'd feel very nervous around her. And then I got it into my head that I, like, if I go home and watch more Michelle Fife for movies, maybe I'll be less nervous. So I would go home after work and put on married to the mob, which I had never seen up until that point, actually, or the fabulous Baker Boys or age of innocence. You know, with her and Daniel Day Lewis.

And then I'd have to go to work the next day and do a scene with her. I'd be like, what are you doing? Wait, why did you think that would cure this? I was just trying to like, I do this thing where I'm nervous from like, I just need more data. You know, if I just fill up my data banks, I'll be more comfortable. And it was totally. Did you tell her you were doing it? Because it could have sounded a little, like, stalkery.

She caught on to me at some. point because I kept coming in and just asking her questions. About like the movies you had watched. So Daniel, what was Daniel? And she was like, are you watching all these? Like, yeah, this is a bad idea. No, my God. She's so, she's just the dream, you know. She's so committed. She is, she brings every part of herself to this thing. And as soon as she feels safe, because she's quite nervous too, you know, and that was a gift right at the beginning. She was like, I'm terrified. You know, she's one of these actors that I don't think I'm speaking out of school. She's sort of admitted it before that she tries to get out of every job she does before she does it.

You know, she has that thing that I really relate to, which is like, I can't do it. I'm not going to be able to do it this time. And they're going to catch me, I think. Yeah. And that's certainly how I feel. And I feel like she kind of gets that. And she would admit that and go, like, we're not alone. We're all feeling that way.

And she made us all feel so safe and like, oh, okay. If you feel that way, we're good. Because it's shocking to find out that she feels that way too. You look at her and you're like, you've done it all. Yeah. You know? Like, how could you feel that way? You're perfect. And it's just human.

And she makes you feel human. And then you all get down to work together. Yeah. You posted, like, about the show that it really felt like a family. Yeah, which is a thing people say a lot. That's true. People do get PR gifts and say, like, my Sarah Bay family. But you mentioned it.

But I also say it on TV shows, too. Like, oh, what this cast. We love each other. We hang out all the time. And often that's, like, not totally true. You know, that means, like, half. the cast maybe hang out. But this cast love each other.

We love each other. We cut and we go home and we all have dinner every night. Like we want to be around each other all the time. How long was filming? I think it was like three months in Montana and then a month or two in Fort Worth. What was it like? Did you like hanging out there in Montana? Loved Montana.

Loved it. Loved it. Yeah. Have you been to Montana before? I haven't. I was going to say I've been to Utah. It's stunning. It's so.

I mean, Utah's beautiful, too. shoot there. But Montana's, yeah, really spectacular and the people are amazing. We're on this, you know, private piece of land that we drive out to from Bozeman every day to shoot on this, like, you know, this like have the cabins that you see in the show. They just built that. It's all like, it's not even, we built it. Like, that's not there. That wasn't like a cabin we rented. They just built it for the show. Wow. And we would just drive out there every morning. And then I had my camper van there. So I would wrap and just go about five minutes down the dirt road and have my own little spot where I'd park my camper van. And it's sleeping.

Yeah, not every night. I had a place in Bozeman, too, but some of the nights I would do that. Really? By yourself? Yeah. Damn, what is that like sleeping in a camper van by yourself? I've been, I've had the camper van for years, so it's like heaven for me. I love it. Wait, you've had the camper van, so you drove it from your home and... Actually, we drive, so we have a place north of Toronto. The cottaging is like a big thing in Toronto and Canada. You're Canadian, yeah, yeah.

Canadian from Toronto. So I grew up going up to a place in Georgian Bay, it's like two and a half hours north of north of Toronto. And my stepdad and my mom had this place. And then we unfortunately lost my stepdad very suddenly about four years ago. And in the aftermath of that, my mother didn't want to lose the place, but she was like, I can't do this by myself. So Troyne and I bought it from her in an effort to see like maybe we can make this part of our life. Anyway, so we spend our summers up there ever since with the girls and go and spend as much time up there as possible. And to get there, we drive from L.A. all the way up there in the camper van. So when I booked this job, I was up at that cottage and I drove the camper van to Montana and then had it with me. Wait, you guys drive from

L.A. to Toronto. How many hours is that? Two kids and a dog. It is, we do it in 10 days. And you do that every summer? We've done it two summers in a row or three. God. You're probably going to have to skip this summer. Yeah, we probably are. Right. Yeah. We're worried that we're going to have to skip this summer. Yeah. But it's okay.

Like, it's as a lifelong. It's a lifelong thing. We bought this to be there for our life and we realize we probably won't get every summer. But it is heaven. And it was really wild to get an audition for this show, given the subject matter and what it's about. To be, you know, having gone through a really serious loss in our family and then have that loss resolve with my family in this beautiful, natural setting that we were now, like, in charge of.

And then suddenly I got this audition about a family suddenly being in a very natural. Yeah. That happens sometimes. That's usually a good indication that. So you're like, did you feel, did you audition for it or was it a? Yeah. So I made a tape at the cottage. At the cottage.

And I had auditioned for a Taylor, I auditioned for some Taylor shared and stuff before. And I, I've always appreciated Taylor's work, but I've always been like, I'm not the right guy for Taylor Shoe. You know, these are men, men in these shows. You had to be a cowboy before? I don't even know what if is a cowboy. I think it was in 1923, and it just, even if it's period or cowboy, I was just like, I'm not the right fit for his world. And so I made the tape very like, not casually, we took it seriously, but with no expectation.

We'll send it off. Okay, we're done. And then got a quick message back a couple of days later that was like, oh, no, no, this is, he's really into it. And he wants to see you in Wyoming for, he does his testing. process there where he comes and brings people in to Wyoming, but I was at the cottage. And my father, who's not well, was coming to visit. Like, it was an impossibility. I couldn't go. And I was like, I can't believe I'm going to have to turn this down, but there's no world in which I can go.

And it was actually kind of empowering. And I think in a way, I've never talked to Taylor about this, but I'd imagine that would land with some like, hey man, I would truly love to do this and make it work, but I'm actually a pure living this existence. And my father. who's, you know, not well, is coming to visit and family is happening and life is happening. And I can't get there. And luckily, he really understood. And he said, that's okay. You can just send in another tape.

So I sent him another tape. And then he called me and told me I had the part. Yeah. It was just sometimes things are like, oh, this one was meant to be. Yeah. Yep. Just meant to be. So how did that feel, though, having to tell them that you can't make it to, did you feel

like you're giving it up? Like I said, I felt sick a little bit because you always want to be the A student. and do everything you're told, but it also felt kind of empowering to stand up for like, this isn't me just saying, like, I've got other stuff going on. I don't want to. It was like, I have responsibilities.

I have my children. Like, it's an island, this place where we are. So if I were to leave it, that's leaving my family on this, like, island. That's a 20-minute boat ride to get to the dock, to get to the grid. Like, it was just, it was not realistic. And so my responsibilities as a father and as a, the son and all this word, you know, hey man, I can't, I can't work. And luckily, he,

he totally understood it and, and we were good. And what was, what, I mean, I'm sure this feels so different than other things you've worked on, right? Like filming in, in Montana and the scenery. Suits we were in, like a warehouse on the outside of Toronto for seven years. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So how was this, was this fun? Did it like turn you on? Because I feel like a lot of people that work with Taylor. I feel like Luke Grimes now lives up there. He moved to Montaigne. He moved there, yeah.

Oh, you can see why. And Ali Larder, I think she before lived in Idaho, but a lot of people lived out lifestyle now. Did that, did that do anything for you? Like, turn you on to change your life? I'll say, it makes sense to me why working on a Taylor Sheridan show would start translating into people moving to these places.

Because you're also having, like, the best version of the experience. You're there. You're working, which is, Our industry is rare sometimes, so you feel good. You're putting some money in the bank. Yeah. You're in paradise.

You know, you have access to all the places. And there's so many people on the production that know things about that place. You get to know the place really, really well, really quickly. So, yeah, it makes sense. I haven't yet had that instinct. The winters in Montana. You guys didn't film in winter. We don't just film in the winter.

So I will reserve my full desire to move to Montana once I've survived a winter. Did you bring your family out there at all? They're in school, so they would come for like a week or two, but not for too long. Yeah. But they loved it when they're there. I mean, that's not to love. It looks gorgeous. But you are, like, you're more, you're not Russell, the character that you play.

Look, I think we should. I mean, you're in a camper van. I'm much more comfortable in the wilderness than Russell is. But I think I share a lot of qualities. You know, as they said, father did three girls. I've got sisters. I've spent my life kind of tiptoeing around. feminine energy

how can I be helpful how do I show up when do I keep my mouth shut what do I get in trouble for so there's pros and cons to that existence and I think Russell is living in that environment too

and he's trying to figure out how to be his own version of a man and I think that's shifting after the events of this show so yeah I relate to that part a lot but I'm nowhere near as uncomfortable in the dirt I like the dirt

Yeah, I like that probably was so fun to work with that group of girls. Amazing. And be like the only guy, really. I can drop in with groups of women really well. And I think that served me well in the sense. Like I think I know how to be that kind of brotherly energy. I think I'm a good listener, which is helpful in a group of women. Oh, yeah, that part has served me very well.

And I feel very, very close to everyone in the cast. But like that core group, which is Michelle, Beau, L. Elena, the little 11-year-old, who is like the most miraculous person I've ever met in my life. And Amaya, like, that's an intense group of women that are all different ages and having different

life experiences. And luckily, they've like kind of welcomed me into their lives and they trust me. And it's a very Russell energy when I'm... No, very Russell. I... You guys, seriously, the Madison is so good. I can't wait to watch more episodes. I'm so grateful to you for watching it. Thank you.

I... I, I, I, I, I, I love it. I freaking love it. Everyone is so good in it. And I can't wait to see the rest unfold as this family kind of makes her way through. Thank you. I'm really, I'm super proud of it. I have a very tough time, as it said, watching myself. So you watch like that. Yeah. So it's like awful. But I could not. The only thing that makes it better is how proud I am of everyone else on this show. I just think they are, it's so good and it's so beautifully made. And it's all directed by the same woman director and DP, Christina Voros. who just, I think, knocked it out of the park. It's just shot so beautifully. It's so beautiful. You were talking before about filming suits,

and I saw you posted that, which also showed up on my FYP, your audition tape for suits. Yeah, I don't know why I posted that. I was, yeah, yes, I did post it. You reposted it. I reposted it. So a couple questions.

Yeah. First of all, because I've seen a lot of these kind of things. Yeah. Audition tapes. Right. Yeah. How do they make their way to the internet? I have no idea.

Like, who's posting? Bonnie Zane who casted suits. I think at some point maybe when suits was on in a promotional thing, maybe they put it out once and then like anything on the internet once it's there. It's everywhere. So you didn't see that for the first time.

I also know when we were doing a podcast where we were doing like a rewatch of suits and I think at some point on our social media we may have even used the audition tape. But I think it was already out there before that. So you've seen it before. but this time you made you feel... I had seen it before, but for some reason in that moment,

it just hit different. Maybe I was about to leave on the press tour for this or whatever. But like, that's like the one thing I can... Again, I can't watch myself without feeling very uncomfortable. But there's some part of me that's very proud of that... The tape. That guy. Yeah.

Just that guy who's like, I remember how nervous. Those rooms are nerve-wracking. You are in a room with all the producers, and you feel like your whole life is on the line. And I feel like now I have enough distance from it that I can watch that little version of myself and be like, the ball's on this kid. Because this wasn't self-tape. This was your in a room. That's like in a room with executives who are all, you know, wonderful and kind and obviously kind of rooting for you to win.

But it's still nerve-wracking. Yeah. And you have that suit, you said. I saw it. Yeah, just before I left, actually, it was like, yeah, it's downstairs in the garage hanging in a locker. I don't know what to do with it. It definitely will never go on my body again. It will not fit.

But I got to do something with it. Like maybe like for charity or something? Yeah, charity thing or, you know, give it's one of my daughters maybe at some point they can fit into it, tailor it, I don't know. It could be a cool blazer for a girl, maybe. Taylor it, right? Yeah.

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I was there for seven seasons, which probably ended up being about eight years. Yeah. Because of the pilot, yeah. So do you find yourself still thinking back on those times? I mean, yeah, think about it a lot. It's also weird, though, because as it gets further into the past, it just becomes more of a, like, it felt endless when I was in it. It was like my whole life for almost a decade. But, yeah, I think about it all the time.

It changed my whole life. I mean, it's crazy. That was the thing about, to me, that audition tape just sort of represented that. Yeah. It was like, whoa, that one moment being in that room and having that experience, that was the moment you kind of win this thing that went on to define a decade, you know, and give me so many things to be grateful for, you know, so many things. Like, my life from that point completely changed. When you were in that audition doing that, like when we're watching you in that scene, did you feel like you were killing it?

Yeah. I mean, I can see my nerves. Yeah. But like, I guess, you know, having known that I got to play the part and do it for years, I also can still watch that as an actor and go, no, come on, a little bit more. No, you played it too much. You could have done more of that moment. Like, I'm still hard on myself.

But, no, I think he's doing a good job. I'm proud of him. Yeah, I'm proud of him. And I know there were like a lot of headlines with. when you left or even later when you've talked about, you left because of getting a little burnt out. Yeah, it was just totally burnt out. I knew there were a bunch of headlines about,

like, a lot of people ran with the drinking thing forever, and that was certainly a part of it, but it was just burn out. Really? Right. I was burned out. I was becoming a not nice person to work with because I was kind of becoming, like, frustrated that you get to a point

of seven years of a show and you have to repeat things, right? Like, you can't stay creative. You can't sort of be nimble. Things aren't changing that much. So I was just becoming kind of, I was so grateful and so enthusiastic and so excited about what we were doing on suits. And then at some point, I became less so. And then I started to, I didn't have the tools to manage that properly.

And so ego became a part of it and just sort of getting frustrated and never, I was not, I don't, I don't think anyone would say I was like a hard person to work with because I'm Canadian and I want everybody to like me all the time. But internally, I was just feeling very frustrated and, like, you know, like, you. you wanted, did you want it to end? Like you wanted them to end it? Yeah, I think I, or like to do some to shake it up. I think I just wanted it to be shook up in a way that it shouldn't be. You had a great, I mean, you're making a ton of money and it's going well. So I understand why what I want is not necessarily what you're looking to do. But it felt like the right time at that point. You know,

Megan was leaving as well. And I was just like, I had a great conversation with my mom who, you know, just said like, well, what do you? What, it's a. what's the reason to do it? If you're unhappy, why would you keep doing it? And I said, I mean, the money. We can make a lot of money. And she was like, then that's not a reason to do it. Wow. You got to go. And that was a real gift to have, you know, that person in your life give you that reflection of like the money is not a good enough reason to do a thing. And they deserve better than that. Yeah. And to have you just around to make money. Did people try to get you to stay when you, when you made that call? No, not really. I mean, Aaron is, we have a lovely relationship. I think he could tell that

I was pretty committed to it. I think there was also a part of me that was trying to prove to me you want me to say, not with money, but make me want. And he was like, no,

I'm not going to beg you to say. We're not going to beg you to say. Like, if you don't want to be here, you don't want to be here. Which is a really good lesson. Yeah. She's like,

yeah, you're right. So it was hard, but, you know, I'd also put my life on hold. I was, I was away from Troy

and we wanted to get married. Like, we wanted to start our life together. We'd been long distance the entire time. Oh, yeah, Because she was doing pretty little liars.

She was doing pretty little liars. So it just felt like it was time. Yeah. Yeah, because I read also that you said it was the right thing for your marriage. But I guess you weren't married yet. Yeah, I think we got married in 2016. Yeah, we got married in December of 2016. And I think my last season was just after we got married.

Yeah, but it was like our marriage, our relationship. I just wanted, we wanted to start. We wanted to be together. We wanted to stop disappearing from each other's lives for months at a time. And then you came back for the last season, right? Yeah. And now I read. Oh, you mean like when I came back for a few episodes?

Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was, you were saying was really special because you got to experience the end of it. I was so grateful I got to be a part of it. I think it would have been really hard to like be at a total distance from all of it. I mean, it was weird. It was weird to come back and be like, oh, you guys have been doing this without me. But they were so welcoming.

And yeah, it would have been heartbreaking. King's not be a part of that. That's special. And then there's closure on it. Yeah, exactly. It's now done, but you finished it with everybody. And then the resurgence happens. Which was crazy.

Which was crazy. Yeah, which is, I mean, unheard of. Unheard of. How did that affect your life when that was happening? It was weird, right? Because I think that happened during the strike. Oh, strike. I think we were in a strike.

Okay. A baby brain. So you weren't allowed to talk about it or something. I wasn't feeling the like, the like, oh, look at the bump. Look at all this energy. Let's go take meetings. Oh, gotcha. And, you know, whatever you would hope for professionally from that moment was like, nope, you can't do any of that.

So it was sort of happening in a bubble. It was just like this thing every so. And then like reps would send, hey, by the way, you're on like the most streamed thing in the history of television. And? Is that residuals? Yeah. Is there a job? No.

Okay. Well, that's great. Yeah. I mean, it was exciting. And, you know. And maybe like followers went up. I don't even think that happens. No.

I don't know how any of that works, but I didn't notice any noticeable bump of anything. You noticed the world doing it, but it didn't affect you. Which was fine because I was also used to like suits again had changed my life. So I'm not walking around with any like, oh, I didn't get enough from suits. Like that's not the attitude. I got more than enough. But it was weird and it was an interesting conversation within the industry of like, also, wait a minute, a show can be having a moment like this. But who's getting paid?

and that was an interesting conversation, but I chose very clearly, like, I'm not going to get into a bunch of old resentment, you know? Like, when I left suits and I had my own things going on, it took me a while to, like, get over all my bullshit that I was like, I'm not going back into that.

I'm not going to start being angry at... Did you guys have, like, a group chat of, like, are you guys watching this? Yeah, there was a bit of a group chat. I mean, again, years had passed by that point, but there was some back and forth of... Because, I mean, people were writing pieces and deadline and stuff about, you know,

doing the math of what people on suits It should have been making. It was the thing on Netflix. Yeah, exactly. When you open Netflix. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was all just sort of surreal and cool and a testament, I think. So, I mean, the truth is, I have no idea why suits is so popular.

I've tried to do the math. I mean, I think we all loved each other. I think it's a great show. But, like, I don't understand when it hits the way that it hits. Yeah, when it becomes one of those shows that, like, everyone knows, everyone loves. It's in the zeit guys. Like, it's not just another. show. And I don't, maybe there is no reason. It's just, just right place, right time, right people.

I know we all, again, really loved each other, and I'm not, you know, saying that in the fake way. We got along really well. We worked our butts off, especially in the early years when we were kind of figuring out what the show wanted to be. We all had a vested interest in finding those characters and making every scene as funny as possible. So I think part of that is clearly the thing, but I don't know why. I don't know why suits and not another show, you know? And they did, they're doing a new one, like L.A. or something. Yeah, I think it got canceled. Oh, it got canceled.

Yes, I think it's done. Did they ask you to come on? They didn't, which is probably why it got canceled, I think. Like they needed, they needed. No, I'm joking. Aaron will kill me. I'm friends with Aaron. It's fine.

Oh, it was the same people, all the same people worked on it? Yeah, I mean, I, what I would comment on this because I don't actually, what I know is that Aaron had a show that he had sold that was not suits L.A. and he's been open about this, so I don't think I'm speaking out of turn. He sold a show, and then the suits-suits-L.A., the suits resurgence happened and became more popular. And they came to him and they were like, so this show you're making, could it be about lawyers? And he was like, sure, yeah, I guess we can make it lawyers again. And then they were like, okay, what if it were suits, what if we just called it suits L.A.?

So basically they retrofitted a suits L.A. Yeah. Like it was not what was intended. Gotcha. too. And again, far be it for me to speculate on, on why a thing works or doesn't work. And I didn't watch suits L.A. But I got the impression that it was not intended to be a suit spinoff. Got you. So maybe baked into its DNA was not. I mean, it's weird because when something like this happens, like a show is so popular, then it has the resurgence, like whatever. It's like,

people are in rooms like that meme of like trying to figure out how we make money off this, how we keep this going. It had a bit of that. From a distance, again, I'm not in any of those rooms or any of those conversations, but it had a bit of that feeling. But the feeling of that would be to get you guys back. Do you get what I mean? I was curious about that. Yeah. But I also, yeah, I mean, look, again, I had to just sort of take deep breaths and be like,

you know, you always want to be invited to the party, and I wasn't invited to that particular party. And again, like, have a great relationship with Aaron. And I had other things going on. And so it was fine. But I just sort of watched from a distance and was like, yeah, this does seem strange. It seems strange that the first instance. instinct isn't to try and get us all back into the room.

Because that wasn't on the table. But again, like, he had another show. Right, right. So maybe they were like, well, let's do this first. Yeah. Then we'll do that. Like, I'm sure everyone would love the idea of getting us back into the same space. So I don't think anyone was like, no, we're not doing that.

But I think it was they were already far down the road on another time. I think, you know, I think we would, we would love to do. I don't know. I can't speak for everybody, but, I mean. Could you speak for Gabriel? I can't. I've learned very carefully not to speak for that. Gabriel. You guys have a cute relationship. Yeah, we have a good relationship. We haven't spoken in a while, but yeah, no, we get along well. We have a very good dynamic. We can fall back into it quickly. We did a Super Bowl commercial like two years ago. That was funny. It was weird. It was like, oh, okay, yeah. This gear will always be there, I guess. It will always be the same, huh? Yeah, yeah, I guess. So we got you on record saying you'd be down. Yeah, yeah, I think I've on the record is saying that anyway. Make it happen. If you can make it happen. I mean, so I'm not going to ask you annoying Megan Markle questions because you get asked.

Okay, I go. Your whole life. I'm curious to see how you do this. Okay, good, go. No, you have no idea how I'm going to do this. No, I don't. That's my mind. So I'm not, because I'm not, I don't like being annoying.

But I will ask you this. Has she ever written you a handwritten note? In my life? Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure I got a handwritten note. Inpeccable handwriting. Because I got one.

That was my way to share that with you. For a thank you. Did you interviewer? No. What did you get a hand here? Did you get a jam? I got a jam. Did you?

I got a jam. I got a jam. I know. I didn't get a jam. Shut up. No, jam. You didn't even get the sprinkles? I didn't get anything.

I got the sprinkles. I got the whole fucking thing. I don't have enough followers, I don't think. No, I, first of all, you need to get on the list. Hello, everybody. What happening? Are we still getting jams? There was the first one and then the apricot.

I don't know if there was a new jam. How was the jam? Be real. So I didn't open it out of like. You're treating it like a champagne? No, it's like in the box. Because. And her letter to me is in a separate box.

Wow. Of letters from people, because I don't have letters. You don't have a lot of... No, I have like my friends, family birthday, but I was like, I need a new box for a Megan letter. Yeah. Her writing is like truly a work of art. It's crazy.

It's astonishing. Then after I got that, I understood and people had told me because, of course, I posted it because, you know. And everyone's like, yeah, she studied calligraphy or whatever. Right. I don't remember the story, but she, like, just did that on her own, right? She was just like, I just want to do that. Yeah.

Like she wanted to just have that skill. In it or something. I think she did for a second. Yeah. So you have handwritten notes. Yeah, I don't. I can't think of one that I have, but I've certainly, I'm sure she's, yes, over the years, yeah, for sure.

Like start gifts and rap gifts and stuff. Yeah, 100%. See? You didn't know how I was going to approach that, but I did. It was great. The other thing that thought is funny. We should taste the jam, though. We should crack it on.

I know. I should have brought it for you. I know. I'm such a frug. I'm like, keep it. I'm not, but it's going to go bad. That's it. It's preserves.

I'm preserving them. How long does it preserves last, though? That's going to go bad. That we need to look into. I also had this whole idea of taking the flower things, you know, her decorative flowers. Oh, yeah, yeah. And, like, putting them on, like, a McDonald's hamburger and, like, making a video. How would she feel about that?

And write that. But then I didn't because I'm also preserving that. Have you ever met her? Have you guys ever seen? I haven't met her. But so the way that happened was that her was that her show was coming. out and I had said on my Instagram where I say stupid jit that, you know, I am worried for Megan. Because you know, you've been protective over her in the past.

What she's gone through is insane. Right. So I am one of the people that's like, enough, you know, leave her alone. So I said, I'm worried this trailer will have people at her throat again. And she wrote me a note saying, basically thank you for being afraid for me, but don't be. Like, it'll be fine. That's what the note said. Yeah.

That's lovely. quote for you exactly, but I... She's like, I know it went for word. I know it worked for word. But yeah, but that was that story. But I also thought, and I still think every time I go to your Instagram, that your bio, which is the other guy from that show. I got to change that.

No, you cannot change it. It'll be bad luck. Yeah. Well, now, I got a new show now. We've got to like live in the present. No, that is true. Oh, yeah. It's...

So, yeah, the other guy from that show that you were watching on that app because that girl married that prince. So that you wrote when the show was having the moment? I guess so. Yeah, right? I must have been during the resurgence. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's the sort of thing that wherever Megan is, if she's ever read that, she's got Patrick. Oh, she has you never? I got a lot of eye rolls. That was a constant with Megan. There's a lot of rolling her eyes at me. Like, oh, my God, what are you doing? Did she ever say anything about the bio?

No, never, no, no. But I'm sure I got an eye roll. If I see you change, it'll be like a very sad day. Literally yesterday or two days ago, I was like, I have to change that, I have to change. So it's going to have to change soon. Yeah, it's going to go. It's going to go. We got our place.

You are very good at writing captions also for your wife, Troy. And I'm like, her friends are probably like, your wife's friends, husbands probably are like, give us a break. Yeah. No, they're probably like, you are making us look back because your captions for her are so beautiful. I appreciate that. Sometimes I'm always like, this is too much. Like feeling in public is quite, I'm so happy to do it because I'm so in love and so

in love with my wife and so grateful for her. And so I always feel I want to express that. It is as big a way as possible. But then I always have that feeling. I don't know about you if you write something like that on social media that as soon as you send it, you're like, oh, God, why am I'm living so publicly? I don't know. Maybe it's just my generation or whatever. Like I start to feel like, no, nobody needs this.

This is too much. But when it's about her, it's sort of, I just want to sing it from the rooftop. So she's pretty amazing. That's so sweet. And you can fucking photograph her. Yes, she let me do a lot of photographing of her this pregnancy. We've done a number of different photos shoots. It's like my favorite thing to do.

I mean, I love taking pictures, and she just understands how I want to take pictures. So she's been my greatest subject for my life. Yeah, definitely. That's so sweet. I also saw the story of how you tried to, I mean, you were going to, you were auditioning for pretty little liars, but you really wanted to get it. She told this story on a podcast because you guys were broken up and you wanted to get. She had broken up with me.

Yeah. She had broken up with me a few days earlier. And then I remember I was at the gym or something. And I got an email saying, hey, we have an audition for you for pretty little liars, but we're going to pass. Because at the time, it was like, it was a very small part. It was like two quick scenes and a couple of lines. And at that point, I worked up to like parts that were bigger than that. And I was like, nope, I want that part.

I don't care what it is. They're like, what? I was like, I want you to use every, like I called my agents and I said, whatever goodwill or power you have, you get me this part. And I'll audition. It was not a time when I could like not audition, but I was like, I'll make a tape. I will do whatever we need to do. I will go in and they were like, okay, this is weird. So I got the part just so I could call her and say, hey, sorry, I know that we're broken up, but I am going to be on set next week.

Yeah. And it was not a scene with her, which would have been maybe a bit too stockery. It was just like, I'm going to be around. and she was, again, a lot of eye roll, like, oh, my God, here we go. And then we were back together a couple weeks later. So it worked. Yes, it did work. Well, I mean, there was a lot of work to do after that to, like, convince her that that I was really in this and wanted to be together and do it properly.

But, yeah, it was the end I needed at that moment. How did you guys, like, you guys both give off and together and separately, like, very non-Hollywood, L.A., couple, even though you're both in the industry, you both live there, right? And like, how do you, how do you guys do that? What's your secret? I don't know if it's a secret. We, I don't know. I think we've been very, in some ways, I think we're too uncomfortable with a lot of it.

We're always like, we've got to be better at this. Like, we got to go out more. We've got to go to more parties. Yeah. We've got to get dressed up. But, like, I think we're both introverts. And I think we both feel much more comfortable, like, quiet and at home. And then we also really love to be actors. And so it's just a straight,

we're very similar in that way in which like this is such a, our work means so much to us. But there's this other part of our work that is the outward facing, the Hollywood part. Yeah. That we kind of beat ourselves up for. We're like, we've got to get better. Yeah. Look at them. They go out. They're doing stuff. They're posting on their Instagram. We're doing stuff. And we're just at home in our pajamas. So yeah, it's just, I just think it's is the nature of our personalities. We're like pretty pretty like kind of introverted homebodies and especially when you add kids into the mix. You know, it's like now you have every excuse in the world.

Every. To go out is such a Herculean effort to get out into the world and do anything. Yeah. That it's just so easy to. Do you ever have those times though when you turn it on, when you guys have done the pep talk and you're like, okay, this month we're going to all the things we're invited to. We're getting dressed. We've never followed through. We've threatened that. that it never works. And then we are never at our, we're never worse than when we are on the way to something. Do you know?

Yeah. Why? Just like crawling out of our skin. Just like, I can't blow up. What are we doing? We're so tired. This is going to go terribly. I'm going to have to do an interview. I'm going to sound like such an idiot.

And then as soon as it's done, we come home. We're like, God, we should do this more often. Yeah, yeah. This is great. It's always like that. Okay, a few quick questions before, before I've taken enough of your time. No, not at all. Wilderness.

Or city? Oh, good question. I think as I'm getting older wilderness. Yeah? Yeah. Yeah. You know, with kids, it's cities are good because they just need stuff to do. Yeah.

But if it were just me in a camper van in the middle of nowhere, it's kind of way. Oh, damn. Okay, Taylor. Yeah. Favorite suits memory. Oh, my God. Honestly, like, there's, I mean, look, so many good memories. But shooting the pilot of that show was, like, one of the most truly magical times.

in my life. You know, it was, it was, as you make a show and you get into the seventh season, there's so many new people and writers and producers and the people you made the show with originally are not there and whatever, but that core group of people that you make that first thing with before it's shared with an audience, before anyone's seen it, it's just like, you know, I don't know, it's just like, I'm sure your podcast or anything you've done where it's like before it belongs to the world and it's just you figuring it out and deciding what font you're going to use and what color the thing's going to be. And like, it's just creative. Yeah. You know, it's just a pure

expression of the creativity of the people you're with that time on suits and making that pilot, which I still think is really holds up. And I'm super proud of that, that episode. No, the first episode is so good. I think it's kind of magical. And I think it's a big reason why the show hit. I think it like hooks people quickly. And that was a result of just like us all just diving in and having so much fun and the creator really giving us license to play and try new things. And like the whole goal of it was like, can we make each other laugh? Okay, this seems good, but what if I do this? And you liked that? Let's put it in. Like, there was no ego about where an idea came from. And, you know, that's hard to maintain that energy over the long run. And I think maybe that was a

little bit about why I left because I, like, missed that initial thing. I wanted to like go make a new thing and have that energy again. Yeah. But a lot of good memories from that. your favorite person to photograph. Trying. No doubt. Do your daughters know what you do for a living? Yes. Oh, they know.

Yeah. Okay. Do they care? No? No. So do either of them have interest in this world? No. No?

Not at all. Are you happy about that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We obviously talk about it and try and figure out what our position on that would be should it come up. But no, luckily, they just want to be veterinarians and unicorn trainers.

Okay, this is a Madison-inspired question. Would you rather poop in an outhouse with Hornets or poop in an NYC subway station bathroom during rush hour? Oh, no, that's awful. Oh, God. Well, can I deal with the Hornets before I do it? Could you? Like, do I have to commit to the Hornets? No, you don't have to commit.

I mean, I would go with the outhouse and just try and deal with the, yeah, I have no problems that outhouses. I love outhouses. The Hornets obviously would be an issue. Who knew you were such a wilderness guy. Now we're discovering it through the Madison. My older sister lives off the grid on an island off the coast of British Columbia. I've spent like a good portion of my life, like living, you know, going to visit her and being in the woods. Like, yeah.

So it all makes sense now. Yeah, I love it. Who doesn't love it? You don't love it? You camp? You ever camp? No? And not interested.

I'm like a city, city girl. I'm like, oh my God. When they were saying city mouse a thousand times, I was like, oh my God. No, I've never called myself a city mouse. I am a city. I'm a city kid. I know. I know.

Haven't gotten punch in the face. Have you had like a miraculous natural experience that where you're like, oh, I get it. I don't want to do it more, but like I get it. Yes, I get it. And where was that for you? Like, no, recently I went to Utah for the first. Oh, yeah. Where in Utah were you?

I like me bringing up Utah. I went to Park City for actually Sundance. It was my- Your natural experience was at the Sundance Festival in Park City. That's what I'm saying? But I was like, it's a start. But I was like, yeah, it's a start. It's like, the mountains.

I was like feeling it. I was feeling the air. I was like, this is different. That high mountain air, that thin air. Well, you don't have a lot of air up there. But it's so fucking good. Yes. So I liked it.

So maybe next up. Yeah. You know? It's going to camper van show. Let's take this thing on the road. Next up, camper van, baby. Yeah. Let's do it. Well, thank you so much for coming.

Thank you for having me. It's pleasure. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Not Skinny, but not fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not skinny, but not fat. Subscribe to the podcast, so you don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcasts and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocheroo. Thank you guys so much for listening. And I'll see you next Tuesday. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to. in this episode.