Not Skinny But Not Fat - The Real Good Nurse w/ Amy Loughren

Episode Date: November 8, 2022

The Good Nurse on Netflix starring Jessica Chastain and Eddie Redmayne is one of the best movies I have seen in a while! The true story of serial killer Charles Cullen through the eyes of his work wife, Amy Loughren is fascinating and weirdly not talked about enough! Luckily I got to talk to the real good nurse- Amy Loughren- who bravely helped put Charles Cullen behind bars 20 years ago. I ask her all the burning questions I had while watching the movie!    Capturing the Killer Nurse is out on Netflix on November 11. Instagram: @amythegoodnurse Twitter: @amythegoodnurse   Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Well, hello, I'm Kitty Maloney, and you probably know me from a little show called Banner Bumper Rolls. I've been labeled all kinds of things, a bitch, a bully, and a mean girl. But there is so much more to a person than what you see on TV. Tune in every Friday as I talk to some of my friends and cast me. celebrities, comedians, medical professionals, and maybe some political figures. And by the time we're done, you're going to love me. This is Amanda Hirsch from the Not Skinny But Not Fat podcast. You might know me from Not Skinny Bonafat on Instagram, where I spend my time talking

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So this is very different, you guys. This is a different, different type of episode today. As you all know, I got obsessed with the movie The Good Nurse on Netflix. I highly recommended it to my followers to watch. It was everything a movie should be. It was suspenseful. I didn't look at my watch once. I just felt the way I described it, I was like every scene was necessary.

Nothing felt too long or too much. much. And I have so many more questions. So lucky me. I am joined today by the real good nurse, Amy Lockren. And you pronounced it correctly. That was one of the most important things in the movie, too. I told Tobias, I want my name pronounced correctly, please. How do people botch it up? What do they say? It's so weird. It's either Loughran. People say Lofrin or Lofgren. or Laugrin or Lowren. It's Lauren. I could see Lauren.

I could see the Lauren mistake. Yeah. But no, I got it. I'm so happy. And, you know, the movie starts off and we're told it's based on a true story. And that I feel like adds the layer of chills down your spine. But you guys, this is as true of a story as it gets. I mean, we're going to get into the differences and everything.

but Amy, who's here with me, is the real good nurse. And I wanted to ask you first and foremost, because the good nurse is based on a book written by Charles Graber. How does it feel to have this story told kind of from your point of view? You know, when they first approached me and said they wanted to make a movie based on our friendship, I thought everyone would just fall asleep. Like to me, it felt so ordinary that I didn't think anyone would really be that interested. Even when I read the script that Christy Wilson-Karrens wrote,

I, because I obviously have never been involved in any kind of movie making, I felt the same way. Like, oh, my God, everybody's just going to fall asleep. This can't be interesting to anyone because, Anyone would have done this. Well, that's really not true. I mean, for anyone who's watched the movie, and if you haven't,

then definitely go watch it so you can understand everything we're talking about. I kept on thinking, this bitch has balls. Like, we'll get to the end of the movie, but what you did was so courageous. Basically, you know, you're the one that got a criminal caught,

but let's rewind. So, first of all, the book was written before the movie, made and the movie is based on the book right so how involved were you with the with the book so i was very involved with the book charles graber found me actually through facebook no one knew about me i was i was in all of the paperwork from the detectives as c i just a confidential informant so i hadn't talked about it hadn't told anyone about it and then charged Graber, he's a reporter, had already started writing a book about Charles Cullen, the serial

killer, because he was doing an article about him wanting to donate a kidney. And he realized that there was a lot of material there, but he felt like it was missing heart. So he was sort of sitting on this manuscript and it then found out that there was a CI through investigating a little bit farther, understood that it was a woman and went down the rabbit hole a little bit and found out who I was and then was given approval through the detectives that he could talk to me. So did you tell the detectives that you were, I mean, the detectives had to speak to you first, I assume, and get, you're okay. So, yes. So it was really that Charlie reached out to me, Charlie Graber reached out to me, and he had already been talking to the detectives, and we all

kind of collaborated together. And since the detectives were already talking to him, as long as all of the lawsuits had gone through, all of the civil suits had finished, then I was able to actually talk about it. Okay. So you were involved in the book. Basically, the whole point of you, I'm assuming Charles Graber got it from you, because then how would he know, if not directly from you? Yes. Okay. So that's where it all started. That's where it all started. And working with him when he found out who the CI was. And I was able to talk to him my first interaction with him when I was finally able to say everything. It was very much my confessional, Charles Cullen, when he first starts to confess, he talked for something like, seven to nine hours straight. And I think that's the same thing that happened with me and Charles Graber. It was my confessional. I'd been holding that in for however many years. And I finally was able to let it all out. It was very emotional. And cathartic in a way, I'm sure. I think it was

cathartic. More than anything, it was, it was so intensely emotional for me because I did not realize how much I was, I was holding on to those emotions. And it helped me spiritually as well as emotionally. Oh, I'm so cute. I have this cute little yellow star in my face. Like, have you seen celebs like out within the wild? I have. And I've been freaking influenced. So those little cute yellow stars on your favorite celebs faces are by star face. So those are the hydrocephes. So those are the hydro. stars. They're pimple patches that really reduce inflammation of your pimple and bring it down or completely gone overnight. But, you know, it's super cool now. They have a black star. It made its debut at New York Fashion Week. So it was the first pimple patch to ever walk a freaking runway,

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Again, that's Code Not Skinny for a 15% off a one-time purchase at Starface. World. You can also find your favorite Starface products at Target, Walmart, CVS, and Amazon in the U.S., as well as Boots and Super Drug in the UK. In those moments working with Charles Graber, the author, were you like, wait, why didn't I write my own book about this? so I'm not a writer and I have even tried very hard to write without Charles Graber I find everything I write is very self-deprecating to the point of I can only talk about things that I don't like about myself or I don't like about my story I don't know if I anyone else has tried to write an autobiography, I just find that I'm so judgmental and I want to

tell everyone what the lessons were up front so that I'm not judged because I'm judging myself so partially. Right. So he was able to paint in probably an entirely different picture than you would of yourself and the correct one. So let's go back to when Charlie Culler, and starts working with you in 2002? Yeah, they say 2002. It's interesting. I usually have to ask Charles Graber when he started working with me. I had been working at Somerset, I think, since 2000, 2001.

Charles Graber would know perfectly when it was. And so I think I worked with Charles Cullen for about a year and a half. Maybe it was only a year. But they say it's 2002. too. And when he came in, I mean, we see Eddie Redmayne in the, in the movie, but how awkward and quiet. And what were, if you remember, your first impressions of Charlie Cullen? I remember him being very shy, very thoughtful with his words. He was always making me feel like I was the only person there. He would listen so intently to everything that people would say. And he tried very hard

to be very technical in the way that he would answer questions. I had a lot of pride in his knowledge of medications, a lot of pride in his knowledge of anything medical. And he was also very funny and you had to get very close to him physically to be able to hear what he had to say and I often think about this about how he drew me in into his energy because I had to stand very, very close to him. It was like everything that he said to me was a secret. Did patients like him? A lot of patients thought he was a physician. I know in the movie he wore scrubs, although in real life he did not wear scrubs.

He wore usually white pants and a white shirt and then a sweater over the white shirt. So mostly people would think that he was a physician. Did his patients like him? Most of our patients were intubated. and not aware. I would say at least three quarters of our patients were sedated. So some of the families liked him because he was so knowledgeable. I also think some of the families gravitated toward male nurses.

I think that we're culturally set up to look at men as being more of an authority on things. And women, even though it is mostly women in this particular profession, we're still seen instead of professionals, we are seen as servants. Wow. And you were saying one of the things that drew you to him was his sense of humor and also that he, you know, spoke so, which would be my goal in life to be soft spoken. So I'm jealous of those people in that way that, you know, speak so softly that you had to get so physically close.

Was there anything else that you remember kind of making you connect to this human being at the time? I think because he was shy and because he had that air of an underdog, I'm kind of a badass and I'm very much, I feel very protective of those people that I feel may have been bullied. I think he had that air of someone who was walking down the hallway and someone knocked his books out of his hand. And because I didn't have that in my life, I was not protected as a child. I became very protective of those people who were shy and quiet. I mean, in the movie, you kind of get that sense, too. like she immediately shows him around and kind of takes care of him and they grow and they grow really close. I heard that you actually used to call him like your work husband.

Yeah, he really was my work husband. I worked such long hours and sometimes nurses, it's not very healthy. However, sometimes nurses don't have much of a social life because we work so much and especially night nurses when we're home, all we want to do is sleep. So many times the people at work are the people we socialize with. And so in between patients or working on patients together, you bond in a way that other professions don't necessarily do. And so, yes, we bonded in that way.

Of course, we did a lot of codes together. We saved a lot of patients. Didn't save a lot of patients. And that trauma bonding is very, very strong. And he was the person that I looked to most of the time that I wanted to make sure that he was there when I was working. So in the movie, we get no sense of this. But because, you know, I'm a sucker for romance, I'm always like, wait, you're a beautiful woman. Was there no romantic connection there?

Was there anything you felt on his side? Or was it purely a friendship? So the reason we were so close is because we didn't have any of that going on. If Charlie was ever romantically interested in me, he never gave me that impression, which is why I could truly think of him as a friend. I was, you know, 20 years ago, I was kind of a haughty. And I also think he knew his limitations. So I, you know, I don't think there was ever that moment.

I could be wrong. I could just be oblivious. Usually, though, that energy of someone being interested in me is, is, you can usually pick up on that. And he never gave me that impression ever once. But he did give you a feeling of like really caring about you. Absolutely, he did. Yes.

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Macy's sale. Go to Macy's.com slash Black Friday. Again, the website is macy's.com slash Black Friday, November 7th to November 19th. In the movie, we do see also that Amy, for those of you have watched, was suffering from a real health condition. And is it true, Amy, the way the movie portrayed it, that you had to keep working for the health insurance and nobody could find out? So the way that Christy and Tobias wrote this in, which I think was brilliant,

was to just simply say that I didn't have health insurance. when in actuality I had health insurance, I was a travel nurse. So if I missed more than, I believe it was six shifts. It was a long time ago. I believe that if I missed more than six shifts, I would lose my contract, which meant that I would lose my health insurance. If I lost my contract, I wouldn't have money to pay any health insurance. So yes, it was just easier to set up that way rather than trying to explain

the complexities of the way that our health insurance works. Right, right. And I did also read about that that you kind of felt like it was almost meant to be or cosmic that you, being a travel nurse, ended up working with this man at that time and were able to do what you did to stop people from being killed. Do you still feel that way about it? I absolutely feel that way. The divine intervention that had to go into Charlie and I working together, I lived in upstate New York.

I lived four hours from this hospital. I was from upstate New York. It wasn't like I even had any ties to New Jersey. I ended up as a travel nurse because of something that had happened at a particular hospital where I was working. And I said, you know, I'm going to try this. I had heard that I could make a little bit more money. It was a lot more money. And this was the first travel position I had ever taken.

It was the first time that I had even considered doing travel nursing. And it was, I was really afraid of doing this because I, you know, I was kind of a big fish in a little pond in upstate New York. And now I'm going to this big medical center. And also he was living in Pennsylvania. So he crossed lines to come over into New Jersey. I drove all the way to New Jersey. And we ended up at the same hospital together on the same shift at the same time. And yeah, it was just to me, there were just so many variables.

The only way that that could have happened is through some type of divine intervention. And did you notice any? I know that you get hard on yourself in that way. And I definitely don't want to bring you to that. place because obviously he had a way of going about things where nobody knew what he was doing for years upon years. Looking back and bringing yourself back to that moment, do you remember seeing any red flags being like, wait, is he a little weird? Is there any way he's like up to no good? Or was there none of that? There were definitely a couple of times in particular where I

turned to my head thinking, hmm, I'm wondering why he would make that particular decision and give the patient. Usually it was during a code or I would walk in on him starting to code a patient and I would think, why would you choose that medication? I trusted his judgment implicitly. So I did do a couple of head tilts and then brushed it off because I said, if he made that decision, there had to have been a reason. Perhaps he didn't have access to the medication we should be giving. And it wasn't like he was making wrong decisions. It was just decisions that I would not have made.

And I started questioning myself rather than questioning him. And in fact, I did take responsibility for one of the medications that he gave to a patient at one time during a code. And he came to me afterward and he said, don't ever take responsibility for my decisions, ever. and he said, I am, I'm a big boy. I can do this myself. I don't need you to protect me. Wow. So he was looking out for you. He didn't. And you were looking out for him. Yeah. He didn't want you to ever take the blame. Yeah. Wow. I'm getting goosebumps. So in the movie as well, he talks about my girls, my girls, my girls. At some point, because I hadn't known of the true story, I was like, is he making up these kids? Like, because we saw, you know, Amy's girls, your girls in the movie. Did you meet his girls? Did you ever spend time with them?

Did you know what the story was there? I did not. I know that he did talk about being able to see them. He talked about how he really loved being a dad. And that was another thing that bonded us. We both had two girls. And we did talk about how difficult it was for him during his divorce. He was already with someone else when I met him, his girlfriend, his girlfriend, in fact, when he confessed to me, his girlfriend was pregnant.

Wow. And do you know if she had the baby and everything? she did and is he do you know if he's in touch with his child he is not he's not wow lordy lord i have a general question there's so many things i want to ask you is there a reason why more people don't know about this like i talked to my sister she's a nurse she went to nursing school and she was shocked that like they didn't talk about this in nursing school and that like her peers weren't talking about it like is that weird to you no one of the things is he only admitted to a certain number of patients.

29, I believe. So there were others he did talk about. Those were only the patients. He could remember specifically that he walked in, he gave them something, and he knows for certain what he did actually caused their death. The reason that the number is much higher is because he played Russian roulette with the medications. He would inject the IV bags and then the other nurses and I would hang those IV bags. And then he would go into the computer system to figure out which patient received it because he could tell by their lab work.

and he would not take responsibility for any of those patients that could have passed, died, or coded, that he was not absolutely certain it was his intention to murder them. So the number seems low in accordance with our really weird standards of what serial killers are. it also seems that because they called him the angel of death and because he initially said that he was killing them because he wanted to put them out of pain, somehow that got out in the media that he was putting people out of their misery. So many people have kind of whitewashed and sterilized these victims in that, oh, well, yeah, he was the angel of death. He was the one that, oh, he was really concerned about the patients and just put them out of their misery. And that is just not true. He was never a mercy killer. He was very

performative in his confession and trying very hard to make me believe that he was a mercy killer. And I wanted to believe he was a mercy killer. I was in denial for a long time that he was a mercy killer. I saw the medications he used. If he had been a mercy killer, he would have used medications that just put them to sleep or just help them pass on or chosen those patients who, and we had many, many patients that were just kind of hanging on waiting for the family to be brave enough to either take them off of their machines or brave enough to allow us to make them a do not resuscitate? No, he gave them, he gave them medications like paralytics. And you literally cannot breathe. You cannot open your eyes. You cannot blink. You cannot scream.

and he would tell them that he was sending them on to their maker. So that's not a mercy killer. That is brutality. Wait, what do you mean he would tell them, Amy? He would tell them verbally? He would tell them verbally. There is a victim in Charles Graber's book that is outlined. He did tell her that he was killing her.

He stuck her. She survived. And so that, no, he was, he was not a mercy killer. And so many of these families where he, he murdered these people, these families were really robbed of their grieving because people do kind of just, oh, he was, he was a mercy killer. And that's just, that's just not true. When you were saying he was trying to convince you, are you talking about after he confessed you had met? him face to face. So when we were together initially, you'll see that in the movie, in the diner.

That particular scene, they made it very short because just of time constraints. In the book, you can read about it, it lasted many hours. And Charles Graber has the actual dialogue from our meeting when I was wired. He has it word for word in the book. During that time, he did at least give a partial confession, but the wire malfunctioned. So, yes, I was asked to go back in and try again. I thought it was over, and I had to go back in, try again. And during that time, he did confess to me.

And he wanted me to believe that he was a mercy killer during that confession. And he told you, I am going to go down fighting. Yes, when we were in the restaurant, I told him that I knew he had done this. And he told me he wanted to go down fighting. Yes. He was not going to confess outright. He wanted to go down fighting. He didn't want his daughters to believe that he was a monster.

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Again, that's Just Thrivehealth.com and use code not skinny at checkout. Just Thrive. Going to be okay. That update of Just Thrive. How scared were you in the scene of the diner? You were having difficulty breathing because of your heart condition and everything. That and also, how nervous were you to have this assignment of get a confession from a killer?

I was very scared. I was also really afraid that I would fail. In my mind, I thought that the only way we were going to be able to put him behind bars was if I got a confession. The detectives never really shared with me how much work they were doing behind the scenes, which was intense, and they lived and breathed this every day. They had a lot of evidence. By the time I went in for that confession, they had already exhumed a body. They had a lot of work into being able to prove medical homicide.

Danny Baldwin and Tim Braun, who were these amazing detectives, already had a lot of evidence. that I just was not made aware of. And I shouldn't have been. I was a small part of that investigation. But you weren't because you got the confession and then you went back in. So those scenes happened in the movie. The only differences in the movie in the diner, he didn't say anything. Yeah.

But in real life, he did kind of. And the wire malfunction, so you had to go back. In the movie, you go back and Jessica Chastain, who who plays you is really kind to him and puts a sweater on him and tries to talk to him. And I noticed that in the movie, my husband watched with me and in the scene where you come home and he's with your girls and a normal person and you already know what he's been doing and any other person would have like freaked out and, you know, been like, oh my God. And that would have been the wrong thing because you would have made this killer angry.

But you, Jessica Chessene, who plays you, remain calm, was just like acting like, you know, she was tired. Did that scene actually happen? Did you ever come home and find him with your family? No. And I loved actually the way that Christy and Tobias wrote that scene because I was not able, it was so intense. Our relationship was so intense. our friendship was so intense and so close because he had saved my life. He was one of the only people that I talked to, one of the only people that I shared my own

secrets with. There was no way to really show that without showing the audience, that type of relationship and how close we were without telling them that, you know, you can get that close. It just really made sense. It made sense that in the movie, he met my daughters. Now, my older daughter does remember talking to him on the phone. She does remember getting his voicemails.

And apparently he did talk to my older daughter. But, no, the movie, it really was not put in there for drama sake. It was put in there because it made sense. And what about the scene when you were? wake up from passing out or something like that and he's in the hospital room with you. So that was real. I actually did go down at work and I was in the ER and Charlie did come to see me in the ER. That actually went along with a dream that I had. And Christy, I'm, I don't know the way that her amazingly brilliant mind works. I'm just happy the way that she

wrote that scene. I had had this terrible dream that I woke up in my bedroom and Charlie was sitting in a chair next to me and he said, I've already taken care of the girls and now it's your turn. And so she put that fear and I had a lot of terrible nightmares about Charlie. She put that terror into that scene. And the real true story is that, yes, he was next to it. I didn't actually wake up with him next to my bedside. He just came in to visit me when I was in the hospital. So you were, you had a time where you knew what was going on because the detectives filled you in and started involving you. So how long were you in the know, but had to act like normal with him? How long was that? Not long.

I think it was, we should ask Charles Graber, he'll know, he'll know exactly. Get him on the podcast. I think, yeah, I think he was, I think it was around Halloween that he was fired. And I think it was December 13th or December 15th that I initially wore the wire and he was arrested. So around that time. So about what? month and a half maybe a month and a half do you remember having to pretend everything is cool with him oh yeah wow yeah that must have been crazy it was and we had to get him on the phone and keep the

relationship going so i would go to this like warehousey place and it was it was really kind of scary because I would be in the backseat of the Crown Victoria with these two enormous detectives in the front seat and me all cold sitting in the backseat because it was freezing in New Jersey at that time and we would drive to this clandestine scary warehouse place and with all the locks and go in and then I would have to sit there on this phone and I would have all of these people listening in sitting around me while I was calling him and and having these conversations. So yes, I was trying really hard. So I would just like close my eyes and I would hold the phone and just kind of kind of curl up and just pretend that I was in my house speaking to him, talking to him.

And it was, yeah, but I remember shaking to the point where the phone was hitting me in the head. were you angry at him amy like did what were your feelings like i want to know were you angry were you in disbelief ever of like no my friend wouldn't do this like what were you experiencing i i did have some anger not toward him i remember when he did confess to me the second time i was in a room and this is also in Charles Graver's book. And it's such a beautiful but very private moment. It's very emotional. So they brought me into this room where I was going to meet Charlie.

And I was kind of waiting in this room. And it was a room where there were these dolls. And they were these anatomically correct dolls and they were it was obviously for like a child abuse room where they would have detectives talking to children and I was I had a very challenging childhood and I was thinking about how my life would have been so much different if someone had protected me and if if I had been able to be in a room like that and be able to tell my story when I was seven. And I started to become angry in the sense that I was not protected and how my patients were not

protected. And I had an opportunity right then to do everything that I could to make sure that he never harmed another patient again in his life. and so yes there was anger there but it was more for everyone that did not protect the vulnerable wow so you did what you had to do and was it portrayed kind of how it happened in the movie that again you you were speaking softly to him and showing him that you still care in the sweater was that real that was real charlie came in and they took the shackles off of him and for the first time I saw the huge scar on his arm, and you see that in the last scene. I guess we're doing

some spoilers here. Hopefully, whoever listens would have watched the movie or read the book. So the last scene, you see the long scar on his arm. In actuality, it was on his brachial artery. It was a huge scar on his bicep. I saw that. And, actually, it was on his brachial artery. I saw that. And he was shivering. I had never seen that scar before because he never wore short sleeves. He never were scrubs. Here he was sitting in scrubs with his arms revealed. And I just felt that need to make sure that he was warm enough and also to cover that up because it was obvious he never wanted me to see that. Why wouldn't he want you to see that? Why was he hiding that? Cutters, people that do attempt suicide, it's not something. Oh, I didn't realize. I didn't realize that part. Okay.

Cutters will not show their scars unless there's, you know, unless there's no way around it or I'm not speaking for all cutters, but it is something that is usually a secret. So no, he never wanted me to see that. The sweater was really also just my last part of being able to hug him and show him that type of compassion. Does he know today that you were part of getting him put away? He does now through the 60 Minutes interview. He was told by Steve Croft. and also someone sent him the book. I'm assuming he read it. When is the last time you visited him? That was the last time before he received the book, before the 60 Minutes interview.

Are you scared of his reaction to ever receive any like communication from him with any anger or you pass that? No, I've never actually felt true anger toward him. I think if anything, I had more anger toward the hospital and anger toward the bureaucracy and the way that capitalism has been using the suffering of people to make money. I think that's where my anger is directed. I believe that Charles Cullen deserves to be behind bars. I believe that he is very mentally ill. I also believe that he was not protected as a child. And his flaws and his mental illness headed toward the dark. And he couldn't stop himself. I do believe that he needs to pay the price for that. His behaviors are, they were criminal. They were murderous. They harmed a lot of people. I do not

feel this sense of forgiveness that people talk about. I've never, I've never been concerned about forgiveness because I believe that we're all here to play a part. His part was not my part. And he deserves to be behind bars. He needs to pay his penance. Amy, thank you so much for talking about all this. I'm sure that even though it's been like 20 years, it's probably probably not easy to read the book, watch the movies, talk about it. I mean, this is something, you know, it's been sensationalized, but you lived it. It must be hard, right? Well, I promised myself I would allow myself to go there deeply and to be authentic with this.

And so I allow those emotions because I think that's what makes us the most human. Was it hard for you to get back to yourself after all this happened? Did you have to go to therapy? Like, how did you deal with such a major thing to have happened to you? I went on a deep, deep, deep spiritual quest and became a hypnotherapist. I'm a Reiki master. I went so deep on the spiritual end of it to answer questions. about myself and why I didn't see it sooner. And I'm so grateful for just the opportunity to be able to do that. And 20 years out now, I'm certainly wiser and I forgive myself for not seeing all of this sooner. So it's much easier than, I don't think I could have done this even 10 years ago.

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to visit thrive cosmetics.com slash not skinny that's thrive cosmetics c a u s e m e t i c s dot com slash not skinny for 15% off your first order are you still a nurse i was up until about a year and a half ago and now i'm working on a special project with charles graver oh you know that i was wondering that I was like Charles Graver, Charles Graver, and, you know, me in my head thinking about how, you know, he wrote your story and me wondering, you know, why you didn't write your story and you said, I was like, kind of connecting the dots. So I am excited to see. So please fill us in when that project is announced. And I know that now you've, you know, you were such a big part of the book, such a big part of the movie. You're doing these interviews. What's, what's the goal? What's the

end goal with, you know, telling this story and sharing it with the world. And you and your goal, your personal goals as well. My end goal is to really get it out there that he was not a mercy killer and to give a voice to the victims and the victims families. I feel that that was stolen from them. Charles Collins stole their ability to possibly the potential for them to recover. And the families were robbed of their potential grieving because of the way that people have viewed these patients is just passing on peacefully. So that's my end goal is to really get it out there that he was not a mercy killer. I don't know. I, you know, I feel that this spiritual quest I've been on is bringing me on this path.

and I'm just open to hearing what's next. Since you're giving a voice to all these victims and their families, have any families reached out to you to thank you? No, I was able to speak to a couple of the victims' families. I don't know. I'm just assuming that the families who did win their civil suits have gag orders. I'm assuming I don't know that for certain. I have not heard from them directly.

I just, I hope that they're hearing what I'm saying and that I'm sorry. And I wish I was able to do something sooner. Well, thank you so much, Amy, for everything that you've been doing and for this interview. Are you still the real good nurse on Instagram? I am Amy the Good Nurse. Amy the Good Nurse. I was like, okay, I know it's something like that. Okay, Amy the Goodner's on Instagram, and we're going to stay tuned for that special project, Amy.

Thank you so much for sharing. Everybody, go watch the movie. I mean, Jessica Chastain plays you. Is there anything more that we need in life? She is an actual fairy princess. I mean, in real life, I am telling you, like, she glows, like, she is luminescent from the inside out. And just her voice and the way she's, she's. just amazing and she's sweet and kind and she's such a you know she's such a wonderful voice for

women yeah I blessed that's all I can say absolutely yeah I mean people ask people like who would you want to play you in a movie and you know and for me it was always Jessica there was never another no there was never another person and multiple times I had said I was such a brat I had said to the producers, Scott Franklin, Darren Aronovsky, and I was like, can't we get Jessica? Is there any way to get Jessica? Like, I was not, I was not giving this up. Like, and I. So did it come from you?

I manifested her. But you also spoke it. Like you said it to the people in charge. Wow. Oh, yes, I did. Oh, yeah. And so you did feel like she brought you to life? Oh, absolutely.

I think that I, I've been listening to other people talk about it and how when she's on screen, it's very hard for them to, to separate us. Like, she really, and the way that she breathes, like that big, deep breath that she always takes, that is straight from who I am. How did she learn that? Like, did she spend time with you? Well, we spent time. It was during COVID.

So we spent time over Zoom and also there were other videos that she could watch and interviews that she was able to watch. But I wanted her to play the need from 20 years ago, not one now. And I think she did that beautifully. One less question. So Eddie played, I mean, I don't know. I think I saw you say in another interview that like it was chilling to watch Eddie and it felt like your friend Charlie. how did he study him you know so there are there are videos of him he actually watched the confession and there's also recordings of charlie leaving me voicemails and he was able to listen to his

voicemails so he was able to get that cadence down of his voice and the way he talked to me And he also had a movement coach and they watched his movements and then coached Eddie on how to move like he does. I mean, if there isn't an Oscar for either of them. Tobias and Christie, like they're amazing. Are those the showrunners? You kept, you kept referencing them. Are they the writers and creators? Christy Wilson-Karens, who wrote last night in Soho, who wrote 1917.

And also Penny Dreadful, when Penny Dreadful was on, she was the writer for that. She wrote the screenplay, and we've been working together for, what, nine years now, I think. And Tobias Lindholm is the director. And yes, I've known him for seven, eight years now. This has been a project in the making. So I'm assuming you can't be prouder than how it came out, right? I mean, what an amazing. I really said this is one of the most amazing movies I've seen in a very long time.

Just wanted to know, have you watched The Confession? I have seen. So the documentary comes out on 1111. Capturing a killer, right? Capturing the killer nurse. I will actually be in the jungles of Argentina on a meditation retreat. But yeah, it comes out on 1111 and the confession. is in there. And are you interviewed in the film as well? I am. I am and yeah. Yeah. I am and another very

brave nurse who also knew that he was murdering people. Her name is Pat. She went up against her hospital and was shot down. Before? Before me. Wow. Yes. Full body chills, capturing the killer nurse out on 1111. I know I'll be watching. Amy, thank you again for your time. thank you for all that you've been doing for real i love your podcast i'm so thank you love it oh thank you so much thank you so much if you're ever in new york let a girl know thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of not skinny but not fat follow me on instagram at not skinny but not fat subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any episodes rate the podcast that you love so much on apple podcast and write a little

review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoo too much for listening and I'll see you next Tuesday. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode. Thank you.