Not Skinny But Not Fat - TODDLERS TO TRAINWRECKS: ALYSON STONER ON CHILD STARDOM

Episode Date: November 28, 2023

Child star and Disney actor/dancer/singer Alyson Stoner (they/them) exposes the truth about child stars. Alyson shares the lawless Wild West that is young Hollywood, how it affects child stars now as well as influencer children, and their struggles with food as a coping mechanism. For more, check out Alyson's excellent new podcast, Dear Hollywood.Produced by Dear MediaThis episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Hi, I'm Mari La Wellen, and I'm the host of The Pursuit of Wellness podcast. A couple of years ago, I went through a huge transformation. And although I got a lot of attention for losing weight and discovering my passion for weightlifting, there was a lot more to that before and after than what a few picks could ever capture. On the pursuit of wellness, you can expect tons of information from experts about optimizing your body and mind. I'll also be sharing some triumphs and struggles from my own personal life. I'm on this journey with you, so you can definitely count on my podcast to give you that weekly dose of encouragement we all need as we pursue things that make us feel our very best inside and out.

Tune into the pursuit of wellness every week wherever you listen to podcasts. This is Amanda Hirsch from the Not Skinny but Not Fat podcast. You might know me from Not Skinny Bonavut on Instagram where I spend my time talking about reality TV, celebrities, everything happening and pop culture. So talk to some of our favorite celebs and reality TV stars. We talk about what's going on. Tune in every Tuesday and just feel like you're talking a shit with your best friends in your living room. Alison Stoner is on the podcast today. I'm a millennial.

I kind of grew up with you. How old are you exactly? I turned 30 this August. Oh, right. How'd you celebrate? You know what? I must be losing my memory already because I already forget. Was it like something fun or did you not care so? It's a big birthday. Oh, you know what? So my former partner, we are no longer together. However, they were so kind and they did organize a couple fun stops. And we didn't know this, but they chose, you know, favorites of mine in the city without even.

in hearing that those were my favorite places. So it was really sweet. I do remember that. It was lovely. And then unfortunately, now I'm entering the rest of the year on my own. Oh, no. Well, first of all, at least like usually breakups before birthdays are worse. So at least you had. It didn't have like that's debatable, right? Like sometimes it's let me know before we spend this romantic evening together. Other times, yes, you get to live out. sort of the fantasy idealized version. But in this case, they are a truly wonderful human. It's simply that what we're looking for out of life and relationship structures are different. What are you looking for? That's a great question. Now I think I'm going to be self-partnered

for a while. I've been, you know, in and out of partnerships. And they've all been growthful. It's just, I think I need some time to find my center again. And I will say this one I thought was someone I was going to spend the rest of my life with. Wow. And it opened my heart in ways that I have never experienced. And speaking of therapy previously, I, in my therapy session a couple of weeks ago, you know, she was like, hey, at least you can be grateful that it broke your heart open. So now you're open. if and when you're ready to build something with someone. So trying to hold on to that. But wow, love is wild. Why do we do it? Why do we do it? Well, first of what I just want to say, I'm very jealous of your soft-spoken voice.

Like, you have my dream voice. Like, what a soft-spoken. That's so kind. No, really, because I'm like, and you're like, I don't know, does it just effortlessly suit is out of you? It must be microphone. It is the microphone. That's what it is. Okay.

So again, Alison Stoner, I feel like. like we grew up with you, you know, I'm a few years older than you. So it was probably me like 13, you, 7. The math is probably wrong. I'm not that much older than you. I just, the math is very wrong. But like me, 11, you 7, me being like, oh my God. Like how did, how, you know, she make it onto the Missy Elliott video.

And I mean, you were doing crazy ass shit as a what, seven year old? I started performing at three. and then professionally in the industry around seven, yes. So tell me about that. Tell me about where did it come from? Was it you? You were this like star, always singing, always dancing around the house. Your parents knew.

Was it that kind of a story? What's interesting when people ask about whether or not I chose this is we have to put on the cap of a six-year-old. And six-year-olds choose unicorn adventures and they choose 12 schools. of ice cream, and they choose to be a lawyer in the morning and a nurse in the afternoon and a comedian in the evening. So we have to just put that into context. I will say I did absolutely enjoy performing, likely because my older sister was also in the dance studio space and in the modeling school. So I think I was trying to emulate her, if anything. And I attended

a convention, which most people perceive as those Hollywood scams, but for the 0.001% of the thousands of kids who go and it actually works out, it just so happened that that was my experience. I received a bunch of callbacks from agents and managers who were adamant about trying to pursue Hollywood. And my family had no reference point. We're from a small town, Toledo, Ohio. No one is in entertainment. The only time we talked about media was when we went to see movies on Christmas Day as a family. And so once I was out in Los Angeles, we just gave it a couple months thinking this will be an interesting life experience, exposure to new places, but then you'll go back home and you'll resume your regular life. Well, I ended up getting signed

by an agent and getting, you know, callbacks and then booking some jobs, which then meant I was contractually obligated to stay and fulfill them. And we had a lot of decisions to make quickly as a family. And I will say at seven, it's, it's still hard for me to wrap my mind around the kind of responsibility I felt for uprooting the family. I have two older sisters. And I always thought, you know, I really, I have to make sure that I succeed. Otherwise, I've, stripped them of their community and their schooling. And, you know, there's a lot of pressure that my family didn't directly put on me that I felt just because it was such a big move. I feel like parents are such a big, big part of this. Like, not always are they the pushers,

but I feel like they play such a big role at, like, protecting. So how do you remember your family at the time? Were they excited about this life? Did they want to feel it? Did they want to? I'm more so your parents than your sisters. But like, did they want it for you? more than you wanted it, do you think? So my parents are divorced and my dad remained in Ohio. And then my mom remarried a person named John who has since passed. But when we moved to Los Angeles, I think the story that I remember is that it could be a positive opportunity for everyone. And I don't recall ever hearing any parent or step parents say I had to do.

do it. I don't recall any kind of pressure to stay in it if it wasn't, you know, fun and fulfilling. But I really think what happens for a lot of families, you show up thinking it's going to be similar to enrolling them in volleyball camp or any kind of wreck activity. But because this is a commercialized industry and it's a beast, it's a whole machine, it's a media ecosystem. Parents aren't given any preventative resources, any education. You have no idea what you're signing up for. And then you're on this hamster wheel really quickly and you're making rapid decisions. And a lot of parents just want the best for their child. And so they're trying to be protective. Genuinely trying to protect. There's just not a lot of structures in place to, you know, support the child's overall

development and well-being. You know, you enter an adult workplace, essentially. So just picture your seven-year-old, you know, going to work with you and filling out spreadsheets. And, you know, it's like it's laughable to picture a seven-year-old and the workaholism that we developed. But it's real. And that's something that people don't consider because the media usually only depicts the parts of our lives that appear glamorous and or like we just had this power and luxury and status given to us. And that's truly only about 2% of what's actually happening in a child's life in the industry. So what was your first job? Was it the Missy Elliott video? Oh, no, no. By then I had already, no, no, no. That's a more prominent job. But no, that was probably my like 15th or 20th

gig by then. There were, you know, plenty of commercials, radio jingle, voiceover jobs. I'm the voice of some kids' toys and toys R.S. If that still exists, some leapfrog toys. And I'd already been in, I think, some print catalogs. And, you know, there's a number of jobs that just aren't as visible. But Missy and then I think around the same time, Mike Super Short Show, which was an interstitial on Disney. And even after that cheaper by the dozen, all happened, I think, in a couple years span. You guys, this holiday season, free people is bringing you amazing gifts for everyone on your list. Listen, free people might be my number one. Everything they make has been so on point and just so me.

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So ensure your next purchase is the real deal. Visit eBay.com for terms. Do you remember feeling at the time like, whoa, this is amazing? Like, this is so cool. Like, people like me. Like, I'm sure that's part of it, right? It's like, even though you're so young, you're aware that you're the chosen one at that point for these things. Allegedly, right? There's like a lot of fear and scarcity where, you know, if you feel like you're chosen, you also know you're highly disposable and could be replaced at any moment.

And so, you know, it's very competitive and you look to your peers as friends, but also competition, which is a separate, you know, anyone who is in competitive athletics or academic spaces, like, you know. you're rooting for each other and yet you feel like if you don't win there's something wrong with you and so yeah there were really high standards that I imposed on myself but also were you know mirrored back from my environment but yeah it's it's hard to explain what's going through a young person's mind when you're kind of still forming your own sense of identity but your map of reality in an audition space for example is like you're a camellia. You're literally supposed to be whatever someone asks you to be any character, any point of view, any performance on cue.

And my job is to win you over in 0.3 seconds. So you become like a master people pleaser, a master chameleon. And then if you book the job, you get rewarded to be someone who's not yourself. Or if you don't book the job, then you're rejected for being really vulnerable in front of an adult who basically says, nope, you know, it's not like a two-way moment where you're opening up and someone else is like, I'm here for you. You're like there to be emotionally vulnerable. And then they send you home. And you're like, I guess I'll just regulate my own nervous system. And the other thing is, is the money part because as we know today, right, if you're 20, 25, 30 and you're in

any industry, if it's like, if you're in sports, if you're an actor, musician, you're also trying to make money, right, in these things. At that point, you're a kid. Do you even care? Like, the money isn't really a part of it for you. It's more like just getting the things. It depends on the dynamic within the family. Some kids understand that they're providing.

Some kids know that they have to pay for the family's rent. Other kids are there just as a hobby. I didn't have a lot of financial education and I wish I did because I would have understood that people were taking my money. But, yeah, you're, you know, you're pursuing as a young person, you know, positive reinforcement. And so whatever the environment around you is rewarding, of course, you kind of adapt to doing more of that. And so in my case, you know, it was about being submissive to the adults around. I think a lot of young people take that route.

You know, you just want to be compliant and obedient and follow the rules. And then you get rewarded with either attention or good girls. grades or, you know, and we kind of like funnel people through that system. And then there are always the young ones who just rebel against it and are like, you know, fuck these rules. Fuck the system. And I remember growing up and being like, I admired the kids who could do that so much because I was such a rule follower. And that ended up being helpful in the industry. But in terms of forming my own authentic identity, yeah, not so much. Yeah. And like now and the reason you're here today is like, You launched a podcast called Dear Hollywood, where you're basically exposing stuff about, you know, how child stars are mistreated.

And this is a fact that we kind of like, as a society say, but we say it so lightly, we're like, yeah, child stars are all fucked up, you know? And, you know, if you made it out, you're, wow, that's insane. You made it out. And it's just kind of like a fact that we, I mean, it's a sad fact, but it's sort of a fact where you're like, yeah, child star fucked up. Oh, Hillary Duff, I don't know how she's okay. But you basically are exposing this. Is this like, fuck you, Hollywood? Is this educating people and parents or, you know, anyone who wants to get into this industry?

What's kind of your purpose? So we've seen a number of documentaries and memoirs surrounding former child stars. And typically we focus on the same horror stories and the same spiel. But no one has ever really examined. and why it happens and how it specifically unfolds. So I've spent the past decade researching, investigating, and essentially reverse engineering what I call the toddler to train wreck pipeline. And the pipeline, you know, is speaking to this repeated case of young artists, you know, someday leading to a mental breakdown, like finding themselves in a downward spiral.

And yes, it's fascinating just to unpack this and let the general public know what's going on behind the scenes, but it's also with the mission and intention of figuring out ways that we can improve the system and prevent current and future generations from experiencing the same kind of suffering. And whenever I share these statistics, it gives people pause. So, of course, there are many more elements to examine than just the experience of fame alone. However, it is fascinating that research shows a person who experiences fame, on average, has a shorter lifespan of 12 to 14 years. They are four times more likely to die by suicide. And fame actually has the same addictive properties as drugs. So just with those three facts alone, when you think about hooking a child to the drug of fame, fundamentally altering their life path and trajectory forever, without them truly having the mental capacity to understand what's going on, that alone is enough to go, wait a second, let's think through this. And then you start to look at the whole system internally. You look at the financial and legal things going on. You look at

the adults around them and, you know, you get into these really intense spaces and you start to question whether it's okay that any of this exists. And then on the outside, suddenly it makes all the sense why young people are experiencing this kind of demise over and over again. And it's kind of like Justin Bieber, right? I remember he said, and this is something I always remember that he said, I think in his documentary that you mentioned that we've seen a lot like this is like the dopamine hit that he gets on stage in front of a gazillion people performing and then imagine going the come down. Oh my God. That sounds crazier than drugs. It's like how do you then have that same rush when you're alone? And that's why I'm assuming a lot of famous people

turn to drugs to give them or parting or whatever. So with kids, it's definitely way more dangerous. Because you're speaking from like the Disney child experience, right? Do you equate that to like pop stardom like a Justin Bieber? I mean, I guess Selena Gomez, Zemi Lovato, they have kind of both. They're like Disney plus that. Right. Yeah. They have experienced things that I will never understand. and I have so much compassion for all my peers. It's just how abnormal and just how truly just strange of a life experience it is, and you don't ever get to press an off button. You know, Demi, Selena, Justin, myself, many of us started at such a young age

that if you experienced fame, let's say, by age eight or nine, we literally don't have a different map of reality. We don't know what it's like to go outside and not have a stranger approach us and ask us for, you know, a photo or maybe even touch us and hug us. Like, we don't know what it's like to go to a regular school or like, you know, I make this joke with some of my other friends times. We have been in films where we're portraying scenes that we have not experienced for real. As in, I've graduated college so many times and yet I've never. graduated college. I've been on first dates and yet I've never been on a first date. I've learned how to do XYZ in a movie and I don't know how to do it in real life. So it's just, it's just a

strange experience. How did you deal with it with all that? Well, I turned unconsciously to food and to, you know, obsessing over food intake. And at first it was restrictive. Then it swung to the other side and was, you know, overconsuming food. And, I went to rehab for that, like voluntarily. I wanted to get help because I realized this thing that I was trying to control suddenly was controlling me. And I fully understand why as a young person. I was 13 when my eating disorder was intensifying. And it makes so much sense. There was absolute chaos all around me, both on set and at home. I have, you know, addiction and abuse in my childhood home. and I was looking for anything to be consistent, ritualized, stabilized.

And so I chose both food and then also I started going to church. Like no one in my family, we were not a family that focused much on faith, except for just like cultural holiday type of thing. And I saw this young person at the end of my street growing up whose family, you know, profess to be these strong believers. And there was like a glue that they had in their family that I craved. You know, I was like, wow, this looks like you all actually love each other and you accept each other. What is this about? And so they started letting me join, you know, as like the honorary sixth kid of the family. And I started going to church. And that was also like a big antidote

that I think it was helpful to like have something bigger than the industry. You know, it was like, okay, God, God is way bigger than this Hollywood machine. Well, we also see that, though, Allison. Like, we also see that in the industry. Like, you're not alone in that, right? Have you watched the other two on HBO Max? I haven't. No.

Okay, you have to. It's like a funny satirical S&L vibe of kind of what you're talking about. Oh, really? You're kind of making fun of all this heavy stuff, but mirroring the industry and everything. Yeah. brings up every, like, thing, they just nail it. I mean, I think that today, if you're of a certain age and mental capacity, you understand today that fame is not all that it's cracked up to be.

Like, it's scary as fuck. It's people that have it. I don't want it. You know, I used to, like, think I want it. Now I'm like, oh, my God, I don't want it. So what about you? Like, it's interesting because social media, it's now expanded. the area of concern, what used to be, you know, issues that only public figures faced. Those are

issues now that anyone who has a public presence online, if you have an Instagram account. Like, but again, we did not pause to educate anyone on what it means to be a responsible digital citizen of, you know, the digital world. Like so now we have people who are, we volunteer to share our private information, our data, XYZ. There are all these other. issues, people are getting canceled or like fired from their jobs because some tweet from 2006 resurfaces because no one was media trained because none of us were thinking, unless you're in the industry, like we weren't thinking about your persona and your reputation online or identity fraud in that way. And so I think it's interesting now a lot of the concerns

that, you know, maybe we as performers have been dealing with since we were kids are things that everyone is that applies to everyone yeah yeah like what to share what not to share i read this i've been doing you know in the podcast i have an episode coming up on kid influencers who which is the whole thing but when we say kid what age are we talking about like little babies until 10 years old oh my god who are making like 29 million dollars no i was i was just looking at the Forbes the like top content creator list came out today and I have a kid yes Ryan that is exactly okay so I was that's so funny you knew that so I have a kid okay I have a kid he watches Ryan and Ryan is actually one of the ones that I'm like okay with because I'm like okay it's not like violent you know

whatever 35 million dollars like he's number 17 of the top 50 creators and I know that it's like When I'm letting Noah watch Ryan, I'm not thinking that he's like a money machine, you know, and a, but, you know, his parents are in it. And these, I mean, yeah, these kid YouTubers are wild. Are you happy that you didn't, are you like, wow, thank God, social media wasn't around back then because that would have added like another layer. I have a lot of concern for young people, even if you're not in the industry. I mean, there's a lot to unpack growing up in public as DeVora talks. about in her book, it's called Growing Up in Public. But I'm really concerned about young influencers because there are fewer protections in place in terms of their finances. For example, federal law does not protect young entertainers. It protects against other kinds of child labor, but entertainers are not included. So we have to rely on each state to pass some kind of law for, certain work hours or like other just protections. Kid influencers right now have zero. So unless the

state says, you know, you need to start a bank account for the kid and the money needs to go to the kid, it'll just go to the family or the team or whatever. And there's no. Like it's the wild West. It's literally the Wild West. So right now, because of my podcast, I've been able to get in touch with some state reps and we're working on proposing legislation for kid influencers. We still need ones for kid actors as well, but you know one thing at a time. But yes, there's like some really scary implications and it leads to, you know, exploitation, abuse. And on top of it, at least as a young actor, you sort of have a grasp that you're going in playing a role. You're going on a set. It's a different location. For a young person being filmed, like, you're being filmed as yourself in your

home space, which is supposed to be like a safe, private space. And now millions of people are watching you. And we don't know what the parents' motives are. I hope, of course, that it's in protection of the kid. I hope they're not like overworking their child, but there's no real way to monitor that. And there's some kind of, I don't know, it was a law that was passed in the 20s, but essentially like, you know, the state can't interfere with how a parent chooses to raise their child. And so this falls into that territory where you're like, the parents can actually get away with a lot and it won't even be considered problematic or like something that you can intervene on. So it's, it's really complicated legal territory. It is, it is

crazy. These child influencers is now with TikTok and YouTube. Yeah. And it seems so attainable, right? Like young people watch and go, oh, so that can be me. Because you don't even need like a skill set. You just look up a product and sell it. I can do that. I'm like, oh, this is messy. Right. It's not like child actors where like you were saying you had the point zero zero one chance that this convention was actually legit and you got signed and that, you know, it doesn't happen to many. You did talk about being fired from a children's TV show for coming out as queer. Yeah. So I should, you know, clarify that the team spoke very highly of my professional skills. It was not a lack of professionalism. It was that the people in power held the viewpoints that

saw queerness as unsafe for young people to be around. So it was more discrimination than, like, you know, lack of professionalism. I've never ever in my life been fired or let go. I don't think anything. Like I said, I was a goodie t-shoes. So, like, I would never allow myself to break rules. So they knew that you came out in your personal life or, and then they didn't want you on the show? From what I understand, I think they felt uncomfortable knowing that I would be creating programming that young people would watch, even though I had already done a season for them and there were no issues. Right. It's not like you're subliminally trying to put messages in about your own queerness. Like this is a totally different project. Winking. Like what are you, what could you be doing? Right. I mean, especially when you're trying to write songs about, I can't go into detail because it would give away the job. But you're not, you're not speaking of what job it was. Well, I just don't, I don't have a reason to give it more energy or to, you know, the drama there. It was unfortunate because all the other elements of that were really fulfilling. Because, you know, we were supporting young kids in their development. But queerness for some is still, I guess, scary. And when did this happen that you say is still? Oh, I suppose it was like six or seven years ago. six or seven years ago. And did that kind of start your process of questioning kind of everything within this industry or with a not? Oh, it wasn't a big, oh, it wasn't a big part

of why you kind of took a step back. No, I've been questioning this industry since I was seven years old. Really? No, no, no. Yeah. Like, come on. So even when you were in it, you were questioning it. The whole time. Yes. The whole time. Yes. It is not normal to experience what we experienced. Were there good times, Allison, that you remember that you cherish that you- 100%. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. By no means am I ever claiming that this was totally negative. That is not what I'm saying. I recognize how special and fortunate and privileged our upbringings were in so many ways. And these are once in a lifetime experiences that we could never experience just by our own effort in Toledo, Ohio. Like the machine, yes, had a lot.

of perks and beautiful moments and beautiful people who I got to meet. But yeah, the industry seems to enhance the qualities that you show up with. So if you are, let's say, you know, greedy, then like it amplifies the greed by, you know, just exponential degree. If you are meek and shy, then like the pressure of being in the public eye will intensify your desire to be a wallflower and like try to be invisible. Like it just, it's just an extreme environment. And it feels surreal. It's like you know that that's not reality for most people.

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What are you guys doing? No, no, no. I didn't have time for those thoughts. I was working 24-7, right? Like, you don't have time to reflect because you're on a hamster wheel. And so there are no hour limit. limits for kids. Like there's no filming out. I love that laugh. Like you would think, Amanda, but no, no, no, no. There are. And here's how you get around it. So let's arbitrarily choose a certain age that allows me to work nine and a half hours, I think is one of the time limits. So nine and a half hours a day. Great. I mean, that's still a full day. So that's job A. But job A also is affiliated with job. B, but they don't talk to each other. So they don't know that you've already worked nine and a half

hours that day. So you go then to job B after and you do another nine and a half hour day. And then job C is promoting jobs A and B. But job C conveniently doesn't know that you've already been on set for, you know, 19 hours previously. So now you're going and working a third shift. And then you're just like. So who's advocating for you? Who is supposed to? Your parents, your manager, your agent. So technically the set teacher is supposed to be the welfare worker.

And the problem here is that they're paid by the production company. So like conflict of interest immediately because they'll get fired. If they're like, hey, you're doing something bad. It's like, great. We'll go get a different teacher. So does the teacher actually teach you stuff? No, you bring your own work. And then you don't know, one, if the teacher is even really qualified. But two, the teacher has this interesting position because you are a child who's already working a full day. So sometimes if you see a young person who's in distress, like, you don't want them to go cram their, you know, history lesson. You're like, you have a 20 minute break. Maybe you just need a snack. And so it's like, you know, and I can hear people listening and being like, it's the parents. It's the parents. It's the parents. Right. Right. I. promise you, there are parents who are incredible parents who are protective, who are trying to

stay as engaged and present as possible, who are looking out for their kids. And when you sign a contract that says you have to be on this set and finish this job, and if you don't, you know, you'll not only get fired, but like, then it'll ruin your kids' reputation and chance of working ever again type of thing, you're in a much tougher position. And I don't know if you've ever tried to come up against Disney's legal team, but I don't think any of us individually are qualified to navigate that territory. So, and it's not just Disney, it's really any company in media. So yeah, there's a lot here that I know people want to just say, take your kid out, if it's not safe, then don't do it. It's not that simple. It's real for when you're on the inside,

I assure you there are so many parents who are like incredible humans who are absolutely doing their best and making really good decisions in support of their child. And it still goes awry. So would your goal be to have more like laws in place for this, like more, but that would be followed because you're saying like there are loopholes. Like right, right. You know. Yeah, like, you can get the regulations, but are they going to be? Right. So, so glad you asked. I have a whole plan of attack here.

And it addresses all of the stops on the pipeline because, yes, if we got laws in place, that's great. But it doesn't mean that, you know, they're actually going to be regulated. So there is the legislative component that is important. We do need child labor laws in all 50 states. But we also need some preventative resources up front. parents need to be given the chance to be educated on what they're getting into. I think a number of them would stop right there and turn around and drive home. But for those who still went forward, they would at least have a game plan to understand, you know, okay, this is what we're getting

into. This is how we can navigate these decisions. And, you know, here are some artist-specific tools. For example, if your child is auditioning and getting into character, but you forget to help them get out of character and they've just been imagining themselves in this really intense traumatic scene for the last hour. A parent needs to know how to help the child's key role and move on with their day safely. I mean, that's already concerning no matter what. But those resources should be when you sign up, just like when we join a job and our employer gives us a little training or some kind of manual company values, da-da, like there's none of that for artists, especially kids. So give them a little manual, a little toolkit, which I'm designing right now.

And then on set, especially if there's going to be, you know, intense themes, traumatizing scenes, you need a mental health practitioner who can safely guide artists in and out of the experience, but also support the crew because vicarious trauma is real. you don't know what the crew has experienced coming into it. So if they're watching someone reenact something that they themselves went through, they also need a chance to be supported. So, you know, and some people are like, well, you can care all you want about the industry, but bad things are happening everywhere. And my answer is yes. So let's improve all of the industries. This just happens to be my area of expertise because I've lived it firsthand.

Have any child stars that you've worked with or not reached out to you? after seeing your work lately? Oh, yeah. My DMs now are full of people from prominent shows, surprisingly, who are messaging and saying, you know, they have stories. They relate. They're grateful that the podcast is out. In fact, some people who I reached out to and asked to join us guests who initially

turned it down are now like, oh, this is what you are doing. There are still a handful of people who have just flat out told me we want to support, but we're too scared to come out in the way that you are. So we're supporting you as a friend from, you know, private spaces, but we're not ready to address this publicly. So it's interesting to be the person who's choosing to have the microphone for this. I want to include as many voices as possible. But you're also not saying from what I've heard you speak about, you're also not point to. the finger at, you know, Bob Iger or like, am I right? Like, you're not pointing the finger at specific people or the set teacher or your manager or your agent or parents. You're saying let's not put the blame on the parents. You're pointing out like a flawed system. Yeah. And in fact, you know, I'm still on multiple Disney shows. A few of the animated shows I'm on are on Disney. And since the podcast came out, I went into record one day and the voice director who I have known for probably 15 years, who is like a wonderful human said, whoa, I have never thought about

some of these questions. I've never had these thoughts. And I think that's, that's the thing here. A lot of people simply haven't really considered this entire ecosystem. Right. I mean, I have considered the toddler to train wreck thing. Like, of course, so-and-so is fucked up. Like, they are child stars, but I've never thought about it, like, how many hours are they working? Right. And, you know, their nervous system, like you mentioned, do you support the theory that huge stars, megastars, get stuck at the age that they got famous in? Oh, yeah.

There's great research around this. So it's not just fame. It refers typically to certain kinds of traumatization. You do experience stunted development. You do, in some ways, you know, you could use the language of kind of freezing in time. So yes, I absolutely have parts of myself, just like we all do, at critical moments in your life, if they were traumatic, perhaps it could have caused pause or distortion, dysfunction in your development. And then, you know, it's up to us to learn how to process, express, release, cope, but not many of us are even aware of the impact of our, or, experiences until later. But yes, fame is, it's a specific kind of trauma and drug. And I know when I

use the word trauma, I can hear people being like, are you complaining about being rich and famous? No, that's not what I'm saying. The definition of trauma that I'm using, I'll go by Resma Menacimms, who talks about trauma being anything that's too much, too soon, too fast, to anything for you to be able to process and feel like you can manage the experience. So if in that regard, that opens up how we interpret the word trauma to not just being some, you know, natural disaster or a death in the family, but really anything that in that moment, whether you were two years old or 92, felt like I don't have the capacity to process this, regulate, and continue forward. So if you think about it that way, then yeah, fame is like,

Whoa. It's just so beyond our capacity as humans. We didn't evolve for this. Just like even people who aren't experiencing fame but are on social media, we didn't evolve to take in all this information, all these opinions from all around the world, 24-7, process that information and then like not have it take a toll on you. Like we're just our technology, our systems, our evolution. They're all like mismatched. Right. Like they're not flowing together. And also, I just want to say also that you're talking a lot about your experience, which started such a young age. But to me, children or young people could also be like 20, like a Charlie DeMilio, you know, that blew up to 150 or 250, I think, million TikTok subscribers. And, you know, and what's different today, I feel like then maybe your time a little bit is, like the social media aspect, the fact that they throw these gazillion branded opportunities at them, right? They become the faces of so many different things and a perfume and music and TV. I mean, with Disney, they have that too. But it's just the Wild West. So have you ever slid in to emails or DMs of people that you're maybe concerned about that you want to help? People have reached out to me. Mm-hmm. So one, I don't know anyone's story from at face value. So I'm not sure what kind of support system they have or how they're coping. Two,

typically when you're in it, you're not really aware of what's going on. And so especially if you're someone in the public eye and someone tries to slide into your DEMs and have an honest conversation, the last thing you feel like you can be is truly authentic. You might not even feel like you can be honest with yourself, because if you were, you might pause and look at your life and be like, what's going on? So it's not really a time and place, typically, for me to send a message like that. But I have had young people reach out and say, what you're speaking to, I think I'm going through. What can I do? And, you know, I'm not a licensed therapist. So I usually, you know, kind of like peer to peer will have a conversation about, you know, I do have some certification

so I can speak to, you know, techniques that help with stress relief or coping with anxiety. But then I usually direct them to resources or just present some questions that are deeper and have, you know, nothing to do with the industry and speak to who they are as a human beyond their commodified brand. And for some, they want sort of like a mentorship relationship. For others, it's just a quick conversation and then, you know, we never speak again. But Yeah, you know, of course, once you've gone through something and you see a young person going through the same thing, you know, your heart's like, oh, but it's not my place to impose my beliefs on to them. It's just if and when it's called for, yes, I want to be a safe, compassionate place for them to share their experience. So, Alison, what's next for your pod? What other themes of this world are you going to tackle on Dear Hollywood? So this season is me just like laying out the landscape. So, you know, we're going to get into the

family dynamics and stage parents. We're going to talk about kid influencers. We're going to go into the psychology of fame. So like if you've never experienced fame firsthand, then like I'm going to help you understand what's going on in your brain and like how that literally affects your mind and body. We're going to talk about the audition process, which is like, oh, so fascinating. But then next season I'm going to be bringing in guests. And I actually want people to send in who they want to see. Because I think it would be interesting not just to have former kids stars, but like, can I get a Disney executive on the podcast? Can I kind of like bring in people who are in the toddler to train wreck pipeline at different stops and like understand what was going through their minds when they chose

this for that child or, you know. Yeah, or like agents or or managers or. Yeah. And then like there's also internationally, you know, you have, for example, like K-pop or J-pop, there are these training programs that kids are going into at young ages. And it's essentially preparing them to become K-pop stars. Well, of course, the few that make it make it. And that has its own challenges and benefits. But then most people don't, but they've dedicated their, you know, upbringing to this pursuit. And so I want to like look at how this is happening in other spaces and industries as well. You could probably even zoom out and just consider like the whole high performing children landscape like athletics and, you know, academics. Like there are many ways

we could splinter off from here. But for now, yes, I'm focused on kid performers in the industry and influencers on social media. And then the second season, it's like, who can I get who's willing to go there. Who knows I'm not here to blame them, but like let's have some really difficult conversations. It's not about blaming. It's just like we can do better. Media is something that's obviously not just affecting these kids' stars. It's also affecting how all of us view ourselves growing up. We learn about body image and identity and things through the stories we watch. So we can do better for everyone. You know, when you said that, because you're talking about this, ecosystem. It just popped up on my feet, one of my feeds, one of my many feeds, because we see a lot of like, when you say ecosystem, reporters and people like that that play a role in this, right? That asked you, how is it kissing, you know, Dylan and Cole, right? Yeah. So an interview popped up for me with Kirsten Dense after she did interview with the vampire. And she's sitting there with Samantha Mathis. And the reporter is like, so how was it kissing Brad Pitt?

Like, was it amazing? I saw this. And she's like a baby, right? She was underage. But like chills because she kept on standing up for herself. Like she was like, ew, like he's old. And they were like, okay, but like still. And she's like, I'm 13, like whatever age she was.

Right. And even her co-star kind of was like, well, I'd love to kiss Brad Pitt. Like all. So when you say ecosystem, it's like, okay, the co-star is there, not blaming, could have like, maybe said something else. But also is in a strange position, too, because you're on camera, you're being filmed and you're still needing to, like, present a positive thing in promotion of the project. Like, there's pressures that are unspoken, right?

That you're like, oh, I don't want to look problematic. So I have to go along with this. Right. Like trying to alleviate the situation, like make it lighter. So it's wild. I feel like that's such a huge. I feel like that's a rabbit hole in itself. Like just reporters.

That would be a great person to bring in. Yeah. Because I've been seeing all of these clips reservicing of people talking about their previous work. I know there was some stuff with Mila, who I've never seen that 70s show, but I guess the writers had her like kissing everyone. And she's talking about things. And from our 2023 lens, we're like, wait, wait a second. Why was that ever written? What, why was this interview ever, you know, led this way. Well, you say from our 2023 lens, but Rosie O'Donnell was the one who was interviewing and you could tell that she was shocked. Like, even though I feel like Mila and Ashen being interviewed, they weren't aware because you're saying a lot of people who are in it aren't. But Rosie O'Donnell was hearing this being like, oh, and did the cops come? Like, she got it right away. She was like, this is a minor. Anyway, everyone go check out Allison Stoner's, a new podcast. Dear Holly, where they talk about all of these,

these concepts that I am so interested in myself. And I'm sure all of you are too. So, Dear Hollywood, wherever you get your podcast, plus YouTube. And thank you so much for coming on. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Not Skinny, but Not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny, but Not Fat.

Subscribe to the podcast. We don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcast and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocheroo. Thank you guys so much for listening. And I'll see you next Tuesday. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.

Thank you. Thank you.