Not Skinny But Not Fat - Trading Secrets w/ Jason Tartick

Episode Date: March 22, 2022

Bachelorette Alum, entrepreneur, author and podcaster Jason Tartick joins me to discuss this season of the Bachelor, how his time on Becca Kufrin's season ended, his upcoming wedding to Kaitlyn Bristowe, his podcast - where he interviewed A-Rod - that provides transparency into finances (his guests spill on how much they make!), his new book, and how he'll get Kaitlyn back on this April Fools. Produced by Dear MediaSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. I'm Kat Sadler, and it sure is a beautiful day. After such a bleak year, it's time for some joy, and I cannot wait for you to hear my fresh and fun new show. I crack open about mom life, relationships, wellness, and beauty, all the things. Plus, I have provocative conversations with some of the most fascinating and famous bases in pop culture. I'm here to lift you up and make you think. Check out, it sure is a beautiful day.

with me and you every Tuesday. This is Amanda Hirsch from the Not Skinny but Not Fat podcast. You might know me from Not Skinny Bonaput on Instagram where I spend my time talking about reality TV, celebrities, everything happening and pop culture. I also talk to some of our favorite celebs and reality TV stars. We talk about what's going on. Tune in every Tuesday and just feel like you're talking about your best. friends in your living room.

All right, everyone, I'm so excited for this week's guest. Before he came on, I googled if you made it to the fantasy suites because I couldn't remember because this season was so long ago. No, I'm just kidding. Jason Tardick. I'm so excited you're here. Oh, my God. You are like reaching in the bottom.

of the barrel of the bachelor to find me. I mean, you got to go back in the history books, but I'll clarify that. I made it to third, and I got dumped at dinner right before the fantasy speech. So that goes, we'll jump right into it, Jason. That goes, so you're basically validating Nick Viles. He said that rarely does a lead sleep with all three.

They usually sleep with two. And I was like, wait, what? So your example with Becca, you were on Becca Kouperin season, that I mean is a perfect example because you were third and right before you were let go. So she only did it with two. Yeah. So she, yeah, I was let go and then she had an overnight with Blake and Garrett. So that was two.

And I remember, I think watching seasons after that, it was actually pretty similar to that. And the fact that, you know, you'd have to fact check me here. But I remember, like, the Luke guy on Hannah B season, there was only two people, I believe that went to Fantasy Suites. I could be wrong with there was two. And then... Did Michelle not have... Michelle did it with Joe.

She did it with Nate. Did she not do it with lover Brandon? No, I think Brandon got cut before, right? Yeah. Michelle, wait a second. Now I get Hannah B because she did it in the windmill four times with Peter, right? We all know that. She definitely did an overnight with Tyler.

and Jed. No. No. Tyler. This goes down the history books. Bring me back, Amanda. Okay. Jay is that you guys, I'm calling him Jay and I think it's funny because Instagram is a weird place and I feel like I know him and I can call him Jay even though it's the first time we're meeting. Amanda, all my friends call me Jay and then like people from like the Bachelor World call me Jason and like it's like my name like translated. Now it's always Jason. So you call me whatever you want. Then call a lot worse than Jay or June. Caitlin calls you Jay, right? She calls me a lot of things, but Jay and Jason fall under that. If you guys didn't know, Jason Tardick is also engaged to Caitlin Bristow, also from Bachelor Nation.

And, okay, so we're bringing back. Okay, the fact that you thought that Hannaby did it with Tyler is huge, huge, because this goes down in the history books of like, no one can believe that she gave up the opportunity to do with Tyler. But that's basically what happened. She was like, she even thought that maybe I don't remember the excuse she was kind of like she didn't want it to rely too much on the physical so she like was literally like

NVM to this and what's so funny and my comedian friend Jared Fried always says this about Tyler is the way he took it was like so quote and quote gentlemany that he was like don't worry about it's fine

and everyone was like Tyler you're amazing even though what was he's supposed to do, you know? Yeah. I think what I meant by that is she, because she definitely had fantasy nights though with three. You don't want to imply that she, who knows what happened, but she did go back with three, right? And that I feel like to Nick's point, if you looked at the history books of the bachelor world, I do feel like that's pretty rare. I feel like at least one person typically gets booted before, but I could be wrong. Is this something from your knowledge that's like just

happens or do you think this is something that's kind of like are you sure you want to go with all three like how does that happen that so many times the same kind of shin day goes down well i think that episode right that you need every every episode needs drama for ratings right and that's an episode where you have three people that are like really into this individual so if all three have a happy night and they all go back and all life is good what a boring ass episode. Gotcha. You know, when I was thinking about our episode today, because I watched Beck this season, and I'm not just saying this because you're on the pot, but like, we loved you. We loved your vibe. And if I remember correctly, wasn't everything going so well until that date?

Yeah. Everything was great. Like, the hometowns were awesome. And then we had this date in Thailand, and it was so hot. It was uncomfortably hot. And I always joke around because I, I always got, like, the worst dates. Like, people would get to go, like, on these unbelievable airplane rides and, like, you know, climb a skyscraper and these, like, you know, a hot tub and pool. I have the shittiest dates. Like, my one-on-one, we went to a donut shop, and then we went to this, like, Edgar Aller Po. It was, like, this happy hour where they were, like, drinking blood, like, vampires.

I honestly think the only reason they did that date is because they think I look like a vampire with my thing. So they, like, wanted the public to, like, jump on that train. I don't know that it connected. What is this called? The Peaks, Bo? The Widow Peak. Yeah.

So I think they were like, oh, he kind of looks like a vampire. And I remember that day I dressed in like completely like all black had the toe. And they were like perfect outfits. Exactly what we wanted. Now I'm like, oh, that's why. But then, you know, in Buffalo, we had like a chicken wing eating contest. Like, what the hell? And then in Thailand.

And this is when the bachelor was like, you guys, this was pre-COVID time. Pre-COVID. People were doing crazy shit. I remember Blake, I would joke around. Blake got like a concert with Becca's favorite musician ever. And there's like thousands of people there. I go to Thailand. It is so damn hot.

I'm sweating profusely. We ate crickets. We got like forced to eat crickets. And then we went to this like really, it is a historic place in Thailand that's very like religious based. I'm blanking on the name of it. But the whole thing in this area is you couldn't touch each other. So like here I'm on a date eating crickets in the heat.

And literally we could not even hold hands. and that's like everything went to shit and you were probably if i if i remember and if i know your vibe wearing like a fucking like suit or like or like a coat yeah i was wearing i wore way too many layers with like a collar like an idiot so it was just a mess oh my god no you're bringing me back you're bringing me back so did you watch the batser before you went on no well my mom was always obsessed with the show so i remember like 2002, 2003, Trista Ryan's season. It was like a thing I watched it with my mom.

And then life happened and I never watched it. But then I had one roommate in my 20s who was obsessed with it. Still is. His name's Jeff Ramla. Watches every episode. So here and there, we would like pop in. I remember Nick Baile's episode. We watched a few.

But other than that, no. No. And you went to SUNY Genesea, which is so crazy. I'm a New Yorker. So, you know, seeing Sunnis and somebody is like education. is like, you know, I feel it, I feel it. Because I feel like not a lot of East Coasters, like kind of New York area. You're from Buffalo originally, right?

Born in Buffalo, yeah. People are always from like random Midwestern towns, I feel like on The Bachelor. Yeah, there are, I don't know too many Buffalo people or even Rochester, Syracuse people, or Albany people for that matter, that have been on the show. So, yeah, I went to a small liberal liberal art school, Division III school, had like 5,000 people there. It was a hell of a time. But yeah, you get outside of the Rochester area and you say that you went to see Geneseo and not many people will know what you're talking about. Yeah. No, but it's a good school, you guys. I'm vouching for him. So, and you were in banking for

10 years, even though you're only like 33 now. So you were in banking for 10 years before the bachelor. Yeah. So I went to school. I went to, I started college a little early. So I was 17 when I started college. And I remember that because I played Division 3 soccer. My parents, I'm in the room. I couldn't practice because my parents had to sign my NCAA waiver and everyone made fun of me. But it was about, it was just over nine years. So June of, I started working the like month after I graduated. And then I stopped my time at the bank in September of 2018. So yeah, it was about, it was just about like nine and a half years or just over nine and a half.

To go on the bachelor. No, is that like the eight and a half year mark? So I went on the bachelor. And this is a lot of my book about The Restart Roadmap, you always wonder, like, what do people, how do they get on the show when they have these, like, real jobs, right? And so the whole story of me getting on the show, given the opportunity to go, and then also given, like, the blow to get out is all told in this story. And I wrote a memo to my boss. The exact memo I wrote to my boss is in the book. And, you know, if you stag a book, you'll get to see it all.

But essentially, I went to The Bachelor. I took three months. It was about three months off of work. I got approval for it because I had 29 days of vacation built up. And then I went on paid time leave off after that. And then right when the show ended, that next week, I went back to work for about a year. And I was ultimately pushed out the door of my job because these worlds of the personal social media life and the professional life eventually collided. Yeah, that makes sense. What does your book drop? So the book is on pre-sale. now you get it like anywhere Amazon or Barnes & Noble Target, etc. But it comes out on the shelves April 5th. I love when I discover a brand and then I get to partner with them because it's like a lot of times I find out about brands through partnering with them. And that's how I end up loving them with Catalina Crunch. It went the other way. I was like, what is this amazing keto cereal that tastes like Captain Crunch? But it's like good for you. Okay. Like what?

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free shipping. Always just go to mybilly.com slash not skinny. It's spelled my Billy, B-I-L-L-I-E dot com slash not skinny. That's mybilley.com slash not skinny. Let me tell you guys, Jason also has a podcast on Dear Media, which is my podcast network, also called Trading Secrets. And you're like one of the only dudes, so you probably feel special. It's cool to be on that group. Dear Media is doing a great job. It's been fun. It's been fun. Yeah. No, they're amazing. And what I love about Jason's podcast also petrifies me is how he literally, you're basically like breaking the barrier, kind of breaking forth wall into influencer life, a lot of it.

And financials, which is such a scary thing. But obviously, as a consumer and listener, I love to hear it. Would I want to go on your podcast and like share my shit? I don't know. And so, but tell us about that because this is wild. Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up. So because like some of these podcasts, you know, like sell on like sex stories and stuff like that. So if you say like what is your thing, it's certainly, certainly not sex, it's money.

And so what we're trying to do with the podcast called Trading Secrets is we are trying to give people a peek behind the curtains of what industries there are in the way. Because I think that every dollar earned or lost, there's like such a great story we can learn from it if we talk about it in a healthy way. not a braggadocious way not a i'm the man way but like this is how much i made then this is what i'm making now and this is how maybe like at home you could do it too and i think the whole entire book restart road map and trading secrets is all about whether it was from the you know offices of the most powerful executives on wall street to behind the scenes of the bachelor seeing things behind like good morning america and stuff there are so many lessons that can be learned that you won't be able to learn unless you see them behind the curtain in between

finances and career navigation. This book and that podcast have allowed me to like showcase that in so many different industries. We've had reality stars. We've had chefs on actors, musicians. We've had average joes who are just working in certain industries. So it's been fun. Didn't you get A-Rod recently? We just had A-Rod on, which was awesome. Yeah. I mean, to meet that guy in person, I mean, that dude has got, you know how you meet people and there's like the circle of energy? This guy has like a hemisphere of energy around them. It's wild. Oh my God, I talked a lot of shit about A-Rod, so I would say far away from that room, you know?

Yeah, well, here's what I'll say to that whole situation, because I'm not going to get into it, but there's a lot more to the story than I think we all know. Damn, Jason, you can't do that. You literally can. Well, A, I'm sure, but wow, I mean, yeah, meeting some of those people in real life is like, I mean, would you call it like star quality? Say that again. What do you mean? Would you call it, like, because you said you felt like a whole, like, energy around him. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Yeah. I think with him, it's like the star quality, but also when I kicked the interview off, I said to him, you know, there's about 8 billion people in this world. And you not only are like the best baseball player to ever live, one of them, you're the most followed on social media of any MLB player ever. You're one of the only athletes that owns a professional team. He owns the NBA Minnesota Timberwolves. And you're one of like the most relevant people in pop culture. And he's like a business tycoon.

I'm like one of those things is one in eight billion. But you're all those things like how. And he attributed it to luck. But he also attributed it. And you could just tell being in his office and in his in everything and everything that he had, the people that worked for him. He lives his life in what he calls the sixth gear. Right. So gears go to five.

So six gear. Like he goes all in. meticulously well thought out, hardworking, pre-planned, everything is so 100 miles an hour, and it has been his whole life, that he never lets fear or confusion dictated decision. And so what he admitted on the podcast is the result of that. He's like, I've had some serious cringe moments in my life. I've had some times where I look back and I am embarrassed at that person. But because I live my life in this sixth degree, I'm getting learning lessons that,

might take one, two, five, ten lifetimes of your average individual. And I think when you feel that energy around him, he's so prepared and so planned and so meticulous with that vibe that it's just like this culmination of 46 years of just what someone else would do in like 15 lifetimes. Wow. It's deep. No, Jason, you should be a motivational speaker. You're like, I kind of have. You're like, wait, I kind of am. I'm like, you're like all these things. No, because you were just talking that story and I'm suddenly like into Arod where I was just reporting on like, oh my God, he did this to J-Lo, you know what I mean?

Like I'm like, I'm like, do I care about all of his shit? Well, now I do. But okay, so back to your podcast, which spills all this, these secrets and kind of breaks the like it's being super transparent. So does that mean, have you done an episode where you're super transparent about your own shit? Yeah. So I've done, I do, I've done two now. We call them Jason Tells All episode. And I have my co-host, interview me and at, and he's one of my very, very close friends. And he truly doesn't know these things. But I tell him, you have free reign to ask me whatever you want, if legally I can talk about it. And so he will drill me with questions. And then also I'll say, like, I hate to keep plugging it, but it also does correlate back to the restart roadmap, is that I do talk about numbers, like how much I was offered to go on Bachelor in Paradise, how much I was offered to go on. I end up to be The Bachelor, what, like, you know, Colton Blake were offered, stuff like that.

So I get into some numbers in the book, too. But on the podcast, yeah, he drills me with everything. How do you feel comfortable doing that? I don't. Like how? I don't feel comfortable at all. I did the first episode, and it was a train wreck. I got, like, all this feedback, like, dude, that sucked.

You didn't tell us anything. It was really bad. I got really bad feedback on it. So the next one, I went in and tried to get more comfortable with it. And I think the idea here is the reason I'm, uncomfortable is the same reason I'm doing this podcast. I'm uncomfortable, I think, because we have these societal norms that we grow up in as to what etiquette is. And you don't talk about how much you make. If I told a co-banker when I worked at the bank how much I make, I get HR might

fire me because how dare you do that? And so I'm still uncomfortable from it, but we have to do it because if we do it, we have more information to negotiate for ourselves, to negotiate with our bosses, to get better deals, to spend less. But I think the system makes us uncomfortable with it because it's like against etiquette. But really, if we talk about it in a healthy way, it only helps all of us. Yeah.

I think the only thing that would scare me is like, I mean, I believe in kind of like evil lion shit, you know? I believe, I mean that like, let's say you go on, you're on the podcast and you tell people how much you make. Yeah. Right? And then all these fucking hate. are like voodoo dollying you.

Oh, for sure. Like, you know what I mean? Like cursing the day. Like, you know, because a lot of people, even specifically for influencers and you do other things, you're not, you're not the typical, you know, batonation, you know, just Instagram influencer, even though you do brand deals as well. Yeah, 100%. I do a lot of, yeah.

I do brand deals and I now also own 50% of a talent agency in which I source brand deals for other talent too. Oh, which talent agency is that? So the agency, right? We're actually going through a name change, but it's called MTC agency. MTC agency. It's run by, yeah, the operator's named Evan Saar. So you're really in the biz.

You're really, really in the biz. And you know what else I just saw? So, okay, so that's my thing. My thing is I'm like an open fucking book, right? Yeah. If I felt like it was a safe space, you know what I mean? But if you're putting it on a podcast, like you don't know who's listening, people that might fucking hate you

and might hate the idea that you're making a dollar. You know what I mean? I think the thing is I live my life in that corporate banking role so fucking well. I swear or no. Oh, please swear.

So fucking worried about everything, everyone thought, the way I dressed, the way my hair looks, and it took a really big mental toll on me. I talked about that book, pills, everything. And I was so focused on being

this image of what success was in the eyes of everyone else. that I totally had no connection to myself. And I just don't care. Like, if people want to hate on me, if people want to chirp me, if people want to come at me, that's fine. When you listen to that podcast, Jason tells all, I really, when I listen back to it, I think I do it in a very healthy way where I talk about, yes, this is what I made this

year, but also let's talk about next year. It could be gone in a second. It could be gone in three years. This is why I made this much, and this is how it could instantly change. Also, let's not just talk about where I made money. let's talk about this stock I bought this year where I'm down like 40 grand because of all these errors I made in my selection. That was a huge failure. So I think talking about both of them and doing it in a really healthy way is what I'm there to do. And if people like judge and come at me

for it, it's okay. Every guest that comes on my show, I expect the same and usually they do the same. And it's great. I mean, like Rob Deere Deck came on the show, right? I mean, take a guess. Would you have any idea how much Rob Deeredeck made per episode on his show? What was this show called? What's the big show he has? It's on ridiculousness. Oh, what? A hundred grand.

Right. So this is the cool thing about that episode. Like he talks about it, not in a bragging way, but he makes $125K per episode. Oh, I wasn't too off. You weren't too off, but he negotiated ad placement rights so that every ad that he brought in, he would get paid. And on top of it, he owned a production company that was doing like $50,000 in revenue. and he made the deal that every single episode has to be done by his production company.

So in that deal, he says how I went from making $125K in episode to millions an episode. And even though that's like monopoly dollars, all of us, maybe we sit back at home wherever we are and think, like, wait, maybe there's something as an angle I could be thinking about my job and negotiating doing things differently. 100%. And you're so right that in any industry, even though, you know, in my, like I'm thinking about myself right now, right? and everyone who's listening is thinking about their industry. I remember in the beginning of my career, I was like DMing, you know, people being like, how much do you, you know, charge for it? Because I didn't know.

You don't know these things. No one knows these things. And guess who, guess what? Why aren't we talking about it? Because if you're not, the only person that's benefiting off it are the people at the top, right? Right. And even in the book, every single position I had,

I talk about the money I make. Like the first position I ever had out of school 2010, I think it was it was either $40,000 or $45,000 in the year I was making. So it's, you know, I talk about the growth, the lows, the highs, everything. I can't believe you just started working right away. We graduated the same year. We're the same age. Yeah, took me, took me a few years.

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I thought you'd never ask Ithaca College. Do you know it? Great school. Great area. Beautiful. Yeah, I love it. It's funny. When I say Ithaca to people who don't know, like you say Geneseo, so for me, it's like,

you know, Cornell? So not the I, really. Not that. But if anyone out there, Ithaca is an unbelievable school. school and we used to play at the cun soccer i love soccer why isn't soccer bigger here in the u.s i don't know but it's funny living in nashville it's such a national in new york it's literally like i'm on a different planet but i'll have buddies here that grew up born and race here and like we'll work out together and like we'll be on the squat rack and i'm not saying this to put

my tires but i'll have like a good squat or something and they'll look at me like i've eight heads and they're like why did you play soccer hockey lacrosse like what it's like what was wrong with you like did you was your dad a pro soccer player i'm like no i just I liked it to like, yeah, but why, why did you do that? I'm like, I know, I just liked the game. But do you know there's football? Like, why would you, what do you mean? You didn't play, they can't comprehend how someone with like a slight bit of

athleticism would ever do anything but play football. I don't get it. You guys, soccer is so huge, like in Europe, like all over the world. I don't get why in the U.S., it's like not a thing. Is it just because football, like, monopolized sports? I think so. I think so. It's fascinating.

Wild. It's the number one sport in the world. Wow, wild. I love soccer, though. Players are hot. Cristiano Ronaldo. I mean, that guy is the hottest dude ever. I mean, I think, speaking of Instagram, I think he was the number one followed and the number one earner, I think, for a while.

For a while, I don't know if that changed. I even just saw you posted and it was so apropos, apropos, apropos, whatever, because I'm going to, you know what, I'm going to be an open book right now. I just got off a call with a manager. I have an agent, but with a manager. And I was trying to explain to my sister the conversation. She was like, well, what did they say they were going to do? And I was like, and I was explaining it. And then literally your real popped up where you had like a TikToker say, like tell you a story.

Right? You had a TikToker on your podcast. Corporate Natalie. Yeah. And she said that she had a conversation with a manager and they were saying they would help her with her cameo strategy. and she was like, what? So, I mean, yeah, so a lot of good little definitely can relate to that. So, Jason, can you tell us on your team? What do you have going on in your team? Do you have an agent, a manager? Yeah. So how I first started working is I had, I would take deals from a couple people.

And then I started to learn that there was a massive gap, right? Get enough. And this is like, I want people to listen to this and think about anything that they're buying or selling or is they're negotiating their job. This kind of relates. But I don't know the market well. So I found a way to know the market by working with a few agents. I saw that the market had extreme volatility in what I was being offered by these agents, which gives me more information. Either there's money being taken off the top or they don't know how to negotiate well, etc. So then what I started to do was be my own agent.

I then brought on one of my very close friends now, Evan Sarr. This story is told in the book. The worst deal I've ever done in my life was derived from Evan Sarr. but he found a way to make it the best weekend of my entire life. So he knew that the deal he could offer for the company he worked for was very minimal, but he knew I had to be there anyway that weekend in New York City to see my brother. So he went out and found like seven other things that I could do that weekend that were fun that my brother could be involved in and that I could get paid top dollar.

And somehow at the end of the weekend, he paid the littlest amount out, but it was one of the most profitable weekends I had all because of him. So I was like, this guy's smart, brought him on board. taught him the industry he's now my manager i then invested in him to for him to start his own agency and now have 50% of that so he's who i work through majority on my deals but i still take deals from other agents out there i'm not exclusive with anybody i would tell anyone out there unless you are a big time celebrity i don't care if you have a hundred followers or a hundred million unless you are big big time with a massive longevity like you are going to be in the game for 20 30 years

because you are that good, you shouldn't be exclusive with anyone. And that's kind of the deal. And then on restart, we have a few employees and in the agency, we have a few employees. But mainly Evan and mostly that agency is who I work with. Wow. So Evan, when you met him, he was working for a talent agency? He was working for a whole other company. Yeah.

Like a whole other talent agency. Right. He was in that space. Sending you deals. Sent you a bad deal. Gave you a great weekend. You connected with him, vied with him, made him. made him your manager, now you have a company together.

Precisely. Yep, exactly. Love that. But there's things he can't do. Like the podcast, he couldn't get me a podcast deal because it wasn't in his realm yet. So there was like another agent who I knew the podcast space well and they helped me with that deal. So it's like putting a puzzle together to make sure that everyone is doing what they do best and to make sure that the value, the organic placement and the profitability are at their highest potential based on who I'm working with. Must be nice for Caitlin that, like, she can talk to you about any deal and run it by.

It's like having another, you know, business manager on your side and banker and all this shit. There was a lot of, Jason. I think there was a lot of holes in the finances, at least, of Caitlin's business when we first met. And we've got them all patched up and things are great. She's killing it. You were like, ah, that cat meme. So it's been fun. Oh, my God.

Okay, you guys. So definitely check out. restart roadmap, Jason's book, and his podcast trading secrets. Can we talk a little bit about this season, Clayton's season? I was out of the country for like the past month, couldn't really watch. So I just caught up. By the way, you guys, you can fast forward through so much of these episodes. Just watch the last three. Oh, a yes, a hundred, but also the episodes themselves like i don't need to see his 35 minute you know talk with his family like that's not what i'm here for yeah you know what i mean yeah unless it was like barb you know whatever so

there was a lot of drama where do you stand in that because i felt i like thinking about things not like because everyone's hating him so much i was trying to less hate him yeah you know what i mean and understand him a little bit what what were you feeling yeah yeah I was totally, like I felt this roller coaster of emotions with Clayton in the whole season because when he kind of snapped on Susie the way he did, I was so pissed off. Like I was like, what are you doing? Dude, I was mad. But then you also, especially someone who's been through it, you have to take a few steps back and really think through this and have let this person have the opportunity to speak. You know, when you think through it, there was a lot of.

a strategy in when Susie would be going for her suite, right? There was a lot of, you know, build up for Susie. Wow, they keep coming back. There's a lot of things behind the scenes that can impact what we see. And as a viewer, it's important to know that. Here's the thing, though, here's my take on it all. Every human listening to this podcast, watching that show, you and I, I'm going to make a bold assumption that at some point in our life when we had emotional distress and we were in the middle of a fight and we were taken aback and caught off guard. We probably look back at a certain scenario and think about what we could have done better in that scenario and how we could have maybe controlled ourselves more, said something

different, didn't react on emotion the way we did. We've all been there. I think Clayton would have and would be in such a better position if he just took a lot more ownership with that and said, I got caught up in the show. I did love it. I was falling in love with these two girls. There was nothing manipulative, but Susie is who I did have the most feelings with. And when she told me she was going to leave,

my heart was broke. My instant heart was broken, and people have been there. And the way I reacted was not the way that I want to be as a human. But guess what? Through life, we go through these. You have gone through it. I've gone through it.

We've all been there. And if you can see it and watch it and live it and also have millions of Americans, can tell you what a piece of shit you are, you have the opportunity to learn so much and grow as a human. And that's what I think when we hear on certain podcasts in certain areas. I think we're seeing now is Clayton used this as an unbelievable learning experience to be a better human. And I think continuing to take ownership to this entire process and using it as self-development would be, would make Clayton a lot more relatable and likable. And

also would be so much better for what's next for Clayton as he grows as a person because I think we've all had scenarios. We haven't been our best version of ourselves under moments of heartbreak and panic and disarray and stress. 100%. I said yesterday, like, less eloquently than you, that at the end of the day, like, we need to remember also this is not a normal situation for anybody. They're dating multiple people to begin with. All of these women are telling them they're in love with him. Like this is not a normal situation to begin with.

Did he handle it unspeak, like, it was just so bad. Everything it did, I was like, no, he was like, no, but I love you more. Like, I was just laughing. I had to laugh at this point. I know I'm late to the game. So it's like, I'm not going to be like recapping this. Like, I'm the first bitch to do it. I'm just going to say like, this is funny.

Like he was like, no, but I need to see. I love the most. Like, it was, it was a little, you know, it was a little comical. It was, but he didn't handle it well. He handled it about as bad as you could. That's exactly it. Here's what's interesting. Handled it about as bad as he could.

Let's talk about this, though, for just one second. Because I find this so fascinating that, like, America or the general watching public, we hold, like, reality television stars to, at least from The Bachelor, to this, level that is literally higher than we hold some of the best athletes in the world that we watch, our politicians, presidents, and leaders, our business tycoons. Like, you have this guy who is on a show to date 30 people who did not handle this the best. And it goes to three, for 25 years, there's been three fantasy sweet keys.

Like, we know what's going to happen. And people are literally chastising him, like, like sending. death threats to the guy. But like, look at how many people and every day we're seeing like, okay, I could think of right now, one NFL quarterback who has 22 women right now who have a file claim against him for sexual harassment just got picked up by the Browns. Like you could think of how many stories of infidelity we're hearing from like big, very, you know, reputable relationships with kids. And I mean, I could go on and on, but it's unbelievable how the like the bachelor viewing audience and those blogs and all these, like,

they hold some of these people to a level that we don't hold the most like important people with the most power in the world to it's crazy it's crazy jason but maybe it goes back to exactly where you're saying maybe it's just the audience like who is the audience here right yeah like who is the audience that literally kills people off like you know what happened to blake after paradise and yeah i mean he's about he's like back and bouncing and i'm happy things are going well for him but yeah they literally take people and you're right hold them to a degree which we wouldn't like imagine yourself in that situation who's to know what you would do and what what he did at the end of the day is fucked up but it's like fuck boy player like bad dude to date like he didn't I was kind of shook

by watching it you know delayed knowing how the whole country fucking despises him you know when they announced him and susy were together I like looked at the comments as one normally would and it literally was so not supportive and it's like what did she do like she whatever it's it's you ever feel even though you know you were kind of in this world do you feel like you're forced to watch because of what you do because of you're on the show or do you feel like you want to watch or what do what are you feeling about it i think that sometimes i think in general it's like 50 50 like sometimes i want to watch sometimes i don't want to watch and i think that like i don't know some seasons do it for me and some seasons don't for example i'm i'm

in the very like small group of people very small group of people that like for some reason i don't vibe with paradise i don't know why i don't know why maybe because i didn't go i don't know but i never like i'm bitter no i'm just kidding yeah i don't yeah maybe i'm bitter i don't know i i don't tweet about it. I don't really talk about it. The Batch from Bachelorette, I always get sucked in with their promos and stuff. And I enjoy it. And, you know, Caitlin watches it, of course, because she recaps it and she'll ask my opinion. And typically we're together. It's like a fun little thing to do together, just like I did with my mom in 2002 when Tristan and Ryan were on. Yeah. No, for sure. And the thing is, like you said, like at the end of the day, you have ownership over your own shit. If you

don't watch Paradise, no one's going to come knocking at your fucking door. You know, you could do whatever you want. Totally. But I mean, I also don't want to dodge that. because like I'm I kind of take pride trying to lay into some of these questions like there is a real for sure correlation that if anyone from bachelor world is talking about bachelor things the you know engagement levels and the discussion topics it becomes it's it's it's more like effective right your engagement and all that other bullshit is definitely higher people from the bachelor will do better when they're talking about the bachelor stuff this is when Nick Viall on the podcast we got like like in the weeds with this conversation of how do you manage building a brand off of being from the bachelor while still making sure you're addressing a main part of the reason you even have a following. So it's like this wild world we got in the weeds on. Right. Because there are a lot of people that try not to and it's a bad look because it's like no whence you came. You know? Yeah. I don't know if it's a bad look. But I don't know if it's a bad look. But I

I think, I do to your point, I think, like, don't forget why some of these opportunities and platform is there. And it's all because of that, like, the same production team and the people that we, you know, give shit to, or it's the same reason that you have that following, that people are asking your opinion on it. And I think, you know, it's so important to ever forget your roots, right? I agree. Okay.

I have a big thing to ask you because April 1st is coming up. Okay. And I wouldn't. I will never forget the prank that Caitlin Bristow did. Was it last April Fool's? Yeah. Like, Jason, I have your face like, like in my head right now. Like, what?

What? Like, I have it there. Like, okay, if you guys don't know, go find the video. It's probably on Caitlin's thing. But she pranked Jason basically was something like she called you telling you that like her nudes leaked or something. Yeah, I mean, it was very orchestrated. No, it was way more orchestrated. It was way more orchestrated.

The two-second thing is she sent me a nude the night before. And then she got every single one of her friends, April 1st, at the same time, all different people, different backgrounds to text me, what the hell do you just post on your Instagram in different ways? And so all of a sudden, I'm thinking somehow this nude that she sent me somehow ended up on my story and all these people are confirming it. and she documented the whole thing and I freaked out and yeah it was a disaster I got punked and you were upset Jason are you a like you're like kind of like a jealous like this is my woman I don't want anyone to see her naked whoa whoa I was I was I mean that's her thing I was mortified that I would be responsible for the one to leak a photo of her like how could I dare do that like what an embarrassing like you know who do I like how

How do I, on my story of a naked photo of my fiance, it's like, how would I do that? So to me, I was so, I was so anxious about me. I was like, what the fuck did I do? What happened? What did I do? What did I do? Oh, my God. Jason, I felt you.

So how long did it take you to, like, laugh about it? Because you were pretty angry in the video. I get over things really quick. It took me, it probably took me like 25 minutes. And I was like. Okay. But you know what this means? You got to start.

planning baby i know i know i have two really and i'm assuming like okay i think you can share it here because i don't think katelyn listen so what should we do you're scared it'll get to her all right i'm gonna give one idea hopefully i don't think i could do this now but she and if anyone has any ideas like come dm me please or shoot me but this needs to be you guys don't like this i mean what she did was pre-thought out the nude was sent to you for this purpose oh yeah the night before the nude was all part of the process Anyway, I was thinking she's like, I'm thinking like she is obsessed with Justin Bieber and I've been doing research about these two like incredible incredible Bieber impersonators and I'm trying to think about something about like how I would get her like going nuts like having no idea like expecting this thing from this Bieber impersonator thinking it's Justin telling everybody you know she'd go on her Instagram be like you guys won't believe what happened and then like somehow pulling the rug out on for under her and being like yeah that was impersonator none of that. That's true. Kind of like when I got, when I engaged to her, I got gauge, we had fake the fact that there was this huge Apple sponsor and her manager was in on it. I was in on it. So we do this whole podcast and Caitlin goes to bring on the guest. There's all these videos there. Caitlin's like thinking she's getting this huge sponsorship deal. And right then and there, I proposed to her on the podcast, which was the same place that I had met her. The first time Caitlin and I ever met, it was recorded. So we have the recording from the first interactions as humans together and the proposal. She had no idea. So I need to get her like somehow like that.

I got her for the engagement surprised. Wait, first of all, that's beautiful. And do we have a wedding date? We don't have a wedding date yet, but we're looking at venues. Okay, that's good. And, okay, first of all, I'm happy to know that you're thinking about something and you're taking this April Fool seriously because this was one of the most important things I wanted to ask you because I was like, he needs to like get his shit together.

Yes, I am. And listen, anyone out there, like, if this comes out before April 1st, please message me. I'm begging you for ideas. Yeah. And if I come, here's a deal. And I'm not sure about this be more impersonator, Jay. Well, listen, I need ideas. I'm not good.

But if someone from this show gives me an idea, I'm going to come back. We're going to credit that person. I'm going to tell the full inside scoop, like we're doing it all. Jason, you're a fucking gem. I believe in you and everything you do. Seriously, thanks for coming on the podcast. Everyone, check out trading secrets. It's also on Dear Media.

Get the inside scoop on everything finances behind the scenes. Restart Roadmap book is out now. Presale. Pre-sale is out now. Yep, yep. And thank you, Jason, for coming on. Amanda, thank you so much for having me. It's good to be in the Dear Media family together, and we'll talk again soon.

Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Not Skinny but Not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny but Not Fat. Subscribe to the podcast. We don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcast. and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocharoo.

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