Not Skinny But Not Fat - Zach Braff on A Good Person, Florence Pugh, & Garden State

Episode Date: March 28, 2023

An absolute honor to talk to Zach Braff about his new movie, A Good Person, written for his ex, Florence Pugh. Garden State was my favorite movie in high school and we talk about the soundtrack,  getting his first script read, losing three loved ones in one year, and dealing with grief & anxiety.  Produced by Dear Media This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

The following podcast is a dear media production. Relationships are hard, and that's why I'm here. Hey, friend, it's Kimmy Crawford. Think of me as your big sister slash audible BFF that you can always trust to give you the real tea. This is my show, Relationship, The Advice podcast that covers all relationship topics, the good, the bad, and the straight up shitty. Need advice? Send your story to hello at relationshippod.com or DM me at Relationship on IG and tune in for new episodes every Friday. be sure to follow us and subscribe so you don't miss all the hot goss and if you're loving the show please leave us a review talk soon bestie

this is amanda hirsch from the not skinny but not fat podcast you might know me from not skinny but on instagram where i spend my time talking about reality tv celebrities everything happening and pop culture i also talk to some of our favorite celebs and reality tv stars we talk about what's going on tune in and every Tuesday and just feel like you're talking with your best friends in your living room. Hi. Hi, Amanda. It's so nice to meet you.

Oh, my God. It's so good to meet you. I'm like, I just posted. I like giving a little hints. So I was like, I can't believe I'm interviewing the person. It's a convoluted sentence. whose first movie had the soundtrack to my teens, to my high school. I mean...

Thank you. I became a fan of yours because I found you when Bill and Krista were on. You know, they're my best friends. And I discovered you and I've been following and you make me laugh so much. You're so funny. And I don't even watch a lot of the shows you watch, but you just have me laughing. You're definitely the best saleswoman for Daisy Jones in the Six, which I'm definitely going to watch now after following you.

I don't know if they have you on staff or what. but I'm definitely wanting to check it out. So that's how I get with things. I was thinking about it. That's how I get with things that I'm into. It's like I don't shut the fuck up. I'm sure people are like stop. So I couldn't like imagine if, you know,

if I had an Instagram back when Garden State came out because I went through the soundtrack again today, just to remind myself, I, every single song, even not the Coldplay ones, like the fru-frou, you know? Yeah. You made me think I was. cool enough to listen to the shins like i didn't know who the shins are i only knew the shins because the garden state yeah well i had found them it's funny the shins actually came from scrubs it was originally used one of that that very track was used in a in a really kind of throwaway

moment in scrubs in the background of a scene and i remember hearing it being like whoa that is not a background song that is the foreground song that and i and i went to a deep dive on them and fell in love with them but i originally discovered the band through scrubs and Krista, who was very involved in the music of Scrubs and some of the other writers. And you did the soundtrack, which I didn't know then, but it's all you. Well, I had helped my friend Kerry Brothers, who's actually on the soundtrack. He has the song, Blue Eyes, and he's very knowledgeable in music, and I had music supervisors. But yeah, I mean, it was sort of a, it was a collaboration of finding music and music I was listening to at the time.

Colin Hay, for example, you know, was playing, used to play. all the time at Largo in L.A. at the time. And, you know, he's the lead singer, men at work. And a girl I was dating brought me to see him play a solo acoustic set at Largo. And I was just blown away. So he sings that song. I just don't think I'll ever get over you. So it was kind of a combination of music, me and my friends were all listening to. And then I never thought I was going to get any of those songs. You know, everyone kept telling me when, you know, I had them in my avid in the edit computer. But everyone could tell me, don't fall in love with these songs.

You're never going to clear these songs. We don't have the money for it. And I always say I didn't know what I didn't know. Because if I had known how daunting a task it was, I probably wouldn't have had the chutzpah to go after them all. But we got almost every song cleared on our tiny, minuscule budget. Yeah, like cold play. Even I'm just looking at the songs.

In the waiting line, I mean, I just can't deal with the fact that this was my, because this came out in 2004. I graduated high school in 2006. So that was like my high school, like walking around listening, being like, I'm so emo. So I loved it. So this is like an honor that you're on on my show and obviously scrubs and everything else that you do. But but even now, okay, so I wrote that convoluted thing like and all the guests are like, oh my God, Zach Rob Garden State. So it's just because you know how like no one has a unique thought. So I always think I'm like alone and cool in something, but everyone feels the same way. Well, I think that's why you're so relatable to people, obviously,

because you're tapping into something, obviously your sense of humor, but also your taste. People see themselves, you know, that's kind of what making a movie is. You put out something that's very personal and you, and then you just pray and hope that other people will see themselves in it. You know, not the specific story, but they'll say, oh, my gosh, that's so me and my mom, that's so me and my best friend. That's what happened to my brother.

That's, you know, it's similar to what, what's happening with you and your amazing career and talking to people as people are seeing themselves in you. They're finding the same humor that you find. They're finding the same taste that you find. I think it's really analogous to making movies. That is true. I mean, but what you're saying about movies. So is that what drew you to make movies?

Like wanting to share your most kind of personal. Because I know Garden State was a lot based on. Yeah. Yeah. I always dreamed to making movies. But I think that filmmaking for me, when I tell these personal stories, it's looking for a way to connect and to find like-minded people. And I think when it works, I can feel a little bit less alone because people see themselves. And, you know, I found the times when I've been really grieving or depressed, it feels really lonesome, even though you know, kind of in the abstract that obviously a lot of people deal with sadness and loss and grief, most people at some point in their life.

But when you're going through it, it feels quite lonesome. So I think in writing personal stories, it feels like a really powerful way of sharing it. And especially when I go watch it with a group and I'm doing tours and Q&A's with a good person, the new movie. That's when it really feels powerful because you see people's reaction. And if you feel the community of the audience, you know what I mean? You feel, it's so cheesy to say, but you feel seen. You feel like there are like-minded minds amongst you. I watched a good person yesterday, sorry guys, not wanting to show off, but oh my God, I took a

selfie of me crying, which is also a super basic bitch move. But if you didn't take a picture of you crying, how are you going to prove it, you know? But it's, it's so good. And you know what I kept thinking the whole time, Zach? I was like, how do they keep going? You know, how do the, I, the whole movie, so Florence Pugh plays the lead who's suffered a loss, caused a loss. I'm like, this is going to break her like she's not going to make it like how would she make it after this scene or that scene or when he yelled at her or when I kept thinking like she's not going to how do you make it like and the character like keeps going and perseveres but I kept on thinking like how much strength a person needs to to keep going after loss and and in grieve

of course and at all levels I mean and and I think you can also you know the movie writes about extreme trauma in this case, but my hope, again, is that people see their own personal experience. It might not, hopefully, it's not on the level of, you know, vehicular manslaughter. That's not a spoiler. It's in the trailer. But, you know, wherever, you know, whether it was a divorce or a breakup or losing their money or losing their job or losing a friend, I hope that the themes are universal for everyone and they see themselves in the character. Of course, what the character of Allison, played by Florence Pugh, goes through, is pretty horrific. And so it's an extreme example, but I think I wanted to show, you know, how hard I imagine

it would be to stand up from something that traumatic and horrific. You're pretty open about the loss that you suffered, which is like you got a triple situation. You lost your, yeah, I lost my sister at first. She eventually passed from an aneurysm and she lived for a couple of years, but in, as a fraction of herself and eventually passed and that my father then died soon after of cancer and then we went into lockdown and right as that began uh i lost one of my best friends to to covid so i i i'm speechless i'm trying to find the words i was so when the pandemic happened and lockdown happened i really thought i don't know what i'm going to write but it's time for me to

write i you know i have no excuses as any writer knows you look for any excuse not to write but with lockdown i kind of kind of ran out of excuses. I needed something to do. And Florence and I were partners at the time. So I knew her really well. And I'm in awe of her talent. So I wanted to write for her. So that's kind of what I sat down with. I sat down with all that grief and and the experience of going through lots of loss and said, well, let me let me see what comes out of me. And this is what came out. Did you know from the beginning that you weren't going to be in the movie? Yeah. I had acted as the lead in two of my other films, Garden State. and one called Wish I Was Here with Kate Hudson.

And this one I thought, well, first of all, I'm not nearly the actor that Florence Pugh is. And I thought, wow, if she really wants to do this and I can write something for her, I would way rather focus on her. And also, yeah, I just always, you know, we wanted to collaborate. So I always sit out with her in mind. And I do find it, there's obviously exceptions, but I do find it sometimes when the director makes a cameo,

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I'm definitely going to do a deep time. Well, you have, you have influenced me, and I am going to watch Daisy Jones in the six. You're going to love it because the soundtrack is also so fun and so indie, you know, and the way Garden State was where, like, I felt indie for a minute and shrinking, too. I mean, you directed episode eight, which is really great for me. because it's titled Boop and you weren't around for Boop, but Boop is my thing.

Oh, did they steal Boop from you? Well, Bill says it was like an accidental thing. Oh, I don't believe him. I don't believe him. You need to get a copyright on your Boop. I was like accidental. But so that's, that's really cool because you directed that, that episode, episode 8th, Yeah, I really love that episode.

I had such a good time and I'm going to direct, I think, two or three in season two. I love that show. I can say that. It's such a good show. I just directed one episode. So I can say semi-objectively, that shows awesome. Why didn't he, why didn't he put you in? Oh, well, no, it was always designed for, you know, Jason is one of the creators of it.

It was always, it was always designed for Jason, with Jason and Brett Goldstein. Oh, in terms of an arc, I definitely, I'd love to do a little character arc on it. I know, that's what I meant. Like, you should come in as like needing therapy. Oh, yeah, that's a good idea. I think it's probably not on his forefront of his mind because he likes me as a director. and he's thinking it would be directing three episodes. But maybe I'll force him to give me a cameo.

Well, isn't it wild, though, because the first script that you wrote and brought to him when you worked together on Scrubs, there is that famous story where he didn't read it or drove over it or something. No, he literally drove over it. I had scumption. I can't tell you. I got scrubs. And, I mean, again, you don't know what you don't know.

I would never do this today. And I don't recommend any actor to do this today. But I got scrubs. You know, I went to film school and I wanted to be a writer-director, but I got scrubs. And one of the very first moves I did was like, I'm going to write a spec script for scrubs and get him to choose it and make it. And I cringe at the thought of that now because it's like every showrunner's nightmare. Like, no, no, no, no, I don't want you.

My actor bringing me spec scripts for the show. Right. It's like, you guys, it's like the equivalent of, let's say you're trying to break into the biz. So you're someone's assistant. And then you try to get like into the biz before like being in. Right? It's like you're trying to... Or more like you're supposed to bring your boss coffee at the big board meeting

and instead you take over and do a presentation at the board meeting. But I mean, if you didn't have the Hutzpah and you didn't have... I mean, that's part of how success happens. Of course. Of course. And I think that, you know, it's a tough town and you have to have gumption and chutzpah. But I... Anyway, so the funny story is that Bill, I gave it to Bill and he was semi-nice about it.

But then later in the day, this is not an exaggeration. A PA brought me the script. And they said, Zach, I found this in the parking lot. And it had a tire mark, not an exaggeration, over the cover page. And he claims he had accidentally left it on his roof and driven over it. Do you remember the script? Like, was it good? I'm sure it needed to work, but I thought the ideas that were in it were really good.

And I think eventually some of those ideas were worked into other scripts. I don't know if you'd admit that even this many years later. But yeah, I mean, I don't know that it was ready to go to air, but I think it was not a horrible, horrible first pass of something. Okay, so you went to film school, which by the way, I always pictured you as like a Tisch guy. No one's Northwestern. I know, but I was like, I just assumed you were at Tisch.

So you went to Northwestern for directing, but you wanted to be an actor. You went to like theater camp when you were younger? When I was a little kid, I just always, I had no interest. in sports. So I really wanted to, you know, my parents found this amazing theater camp. Sorry, I'm in New York and there's sirens by my mom. But my parents found this amazing theater for kids who really wanted to do theater. It was called Stage Door Manor up in, up in the Catskills. And I just found my people. I went there and I was like, oh my goodness. I didn't know there was like this many people that were like me who have no interest in lacrosse and just

want to do musicals. Wait, is that like nerdy? Is the vibe nerdy? Is the vibe, like, cool? Oh, well, it may have been nerdy to outside people. To us, we were the coolest people in the world. I mean, are you kidding me? And I felt really cool because I was a good actor for a kid, and I was getting leads. So it was really a special place for me. I really loved it.

And, you know, it's camp. You know, I had my first kiss there, and it was magical. And so I, you know, I auditioned as a child actor and got a couple things. But actually, when I was 18, I got a pilot at 14 that didn't. go with Gwyneth Paltrow's first part as well. She was she was the you know pretty cheerleader senior girl in high school and I was sort of the nerdy freshman it was a show called high like as in high school and it didn't get picked up but it was both of our first things and then when I was 18 I got cast in Woody Allen's Manhattan murder mystery I played his in

Diane Keaton's son just in one scene but that was really surreal because my first scene ever in a movie was my scene partners were Woody Allen, Diane Keaton, and Angelica Houston. And I would imagine that you were like a fan of Woody Allen. Oh, yeah. I mean, obviously, I know it's controversial even mentioned his name these days. But it's honest to say that my father loved Danny Hall. It was his favorite movie. You know, it was played all the time in my house.

So playing their kid was a very surreal moment. And then I, but then I decided, you know, it kind of had some momentum, But I really wanted to go to film school. I really wanted to learn how to make movies. So I went off to Northwestern and studied film for four years. That's so cool. So now, like, what do you feel like you prefer to do? Act or write and direct?

I like doing both. I hope I get to continue doing both. But, you know, when I make a movie like this, I feel like I'm most self-expressed when I want to do something like this. It's very hard to do. It's so hard to get a movie made. It's so hard to get them to come out. This one's actually coming out in theaters.

I know. I was thinking about that, because you wrote it during the pandemic. Did you have in mind, like, because you couldn't have known things would get better. It could be in a movie theater. People could go watch it versus, you know, so many movies that were going straight to streaming services. And so what did you have in mind? Did you, did you imagine it in theaters?

I always hoped that would have been in theaters. I always imagined that. But I didn't know, you know, Amazon bought MGM, you know, while we've been waiting to release the movie. So, of course, I was concerned that that they might. to just put it on their streaming service. But MGM really loves the movie, and they wanted to give it a theatrical release. So I just, I'm so lucky and blessed that it's actually going to come out in theaters.

And I'm here to beg everyone to please go check it out, because I do think, even though it may sound like a shameless plug, I do think that there's something really beautiful about seeing a movie like this, which is quite emotional. And then there also is a lot of humor, but in a theater with people, there's something really powerful, I think, that happens when you watch a movie like this and it's perfectly silent. And then you obviously hear some people crying. And then there's a big laugh. I think it really, you know, enhances the experience. And also you get to hear Morgan Freeman in surround sound. You get to hear Morgan Freeman. And also, you know, him and Florence Pew going to. Oh, my God.

It was pretty incredible. I know. It was probably super surreal for you to get Morgan Freeman to do this role. he your dream actor for this part? Yeah. I mean, I never thought I'd get him because he doesn't normally do independent movies, but I had made a studio movie with him, a big heist comedy I made called Going in Style. So I knew him and I thought, you know, Florence and I both were like, well, let's try. You know, you never, you never know. And we sent it to him. And I thought I was going to have to wait a few weeks. And he called me. And I remember Florence held up the phone because the phone said Morgan Freeman across the front of it. And he's never really called.

But he's texted me a few times, but he'd never called me. And I picked up the phone. And he didn't even say hi. He just goes, I see myself on every page of this script. And I was like, does that mean yes? And he's like, yeah, that means yes. And then we were off to the races. Wow.

I mean, both of them together. And even Molly Shannon, what a surprise. Because I didn't know she, I knew they were in it, but I didn't know Molly was in. it. And then you're like, and she's just such a fun surprise to watch on screen. I love her so much. And she's such a good mix of comedy and drama. You know, some of people know Molly from like S&L and being a hilarious comedian. But I had actually interesting directed, the first episode of Scrubs I ever directed, Molly was the guest star. And the arc of her character in that

episode was quite dramatic. She had a lot of funny stuff. But then there was like a big reveal dramatic moment. And she was incredible. So I remember all the the way back then thinking, wow, I want to work with her again. She's fantastic. And when we were casting this movie and trying to pick Florence's mom, Florence and I were both like, oh my, when we couldn't, you couldn't possibly beat Molly Shannon for this part. And so I was thrilled when she said yes. I know. And it works somehow. They like really do pull off mother and daughter so well. I was like, this is such perfect casting. Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about, you call her Florence. So do do her friends not call her Flo? She has lots of nicknames. Flossy Flow, Flobo Baggins,

Flossy Rose, Lil Pew Pew, Pew. That's cute. Wait, so how did you two even meet? We met through friends and, you know, we were just hang out. And then I got this opportunity to direct this big budget short film, which are not words that go together very often. But it was actually for Adobe, you know, the company that makes Photoshop. And I got this really awesome. It was like we're going to do a contest for college kids to design a movie poster and the winning movie poster the prize is that that you will write and direct a short film based on the movie poster and I was like and also and here's a big ass budget to make the short film and I was like this sounds too good to be true and because I Florence was on my radar as someone to watch and I thought she was her work was incredible. I cast her. I cast Alicia Silverstone. If anyone's curious you can watch it. It's on YouTube. it's called In the Time It Takes to Get There. And so we made this short together and it came out really cool. And everybody, the Adobe and everyone who watched it liked it.

And then we just hit it off and we started seeing each other. Okay, two-part question. So you made the movie for her while you were filming, you were still dating. So you were like her boyfriend, but also her director. Yeah. But we had had the experience of the short film, you know, practice, you know, because that was a three-day shoot. And this was a 26-day shoot. Oh, you didn't?

20 you did this movie in 26 days. Isn't that insane? Yeah, it's pretty insane. We had to shoot fast because not only do we have a low budget, but COVID, all with all the COVID protocols, you're so much money. I mean, understandably, everyone has to stay safe, but so much money is going out the window with the testing and the staff and all the safety measures. And it's not going on the screen.

And basically it translates to at the bottom line is you're just losing days. You just don't, you have less days to make the film. that's crazy because you guys like shows take like just TV shows right take so long well like an episode of drinking for example would be like six and a half days to do a 25 30 minute show so this is a two hour movie we shot in 26 days it's pretty it's pretty fast pace it's pretty fast paced wow and you did it all in new jersey too yeah i shot it all in my hometown which is south orange new jersey because i i just felt like i knew that that place so well. So if I was going to write something that was really raw and vulnerable and

authentic to my experience, that if I, if I said it somewhere, I really knew well, I would have a really solid foundation. You know, I couldn't, I wouldn't fuck up the area. I know what the dive bar in Jersey looks like. I know what the high school principal's office looks like. I know what a church looks like. I know that world. And I, and so I felt comfort in setting it where I know. So it's like also super realistic. You know, what's really super realistic and trippy is that I'm going to premiere for the New Jersey premiere tonight

in my hometown. Florence is coming and the audience is going to be like loving it so much because there's certain locations that are like you know, they're 30 yards away from the movie theater that we shot in like the train station, the Duck Pond. Wait, are there usually premieres in New Jersey?

No, I just mean because we shot it in the time, it's not like a No, I mean, it's not like a big carpet kind of thing. We're just doing, we're doing a screening there for the town because you know the town is is where it's set so we're doing a sort of give back thanks for letting it's out there yeah I love that

you really like elevate New Jersey all the time I mean in two out of your right like garden stay and this yeah I mean I it's just to be honest it's just right we should know that that's what I feel like most confident not always I mean which I was

here took place in LA which I also know pretty well at this point so I think I just feel confident writing of an area I really I feel I know well. There is a new show on Hulu. It's called Up Here. It's with May Whitman.

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We love each other. We get along really well. it doesn't always go as well as it goes for us i mean but we just we really get along we want to keep working together we want to make more movies together we we share a dog together we love each other i'm just in awe of her talent she's just the best actress one of the best actresses in the world i think and so i think we just and we're proud we're very proud to be releasing this together there was a lot of blood sweat and tears that went into making this movie so i think we're just really proud of our baby, if you will.

I know. Imagine like your breakup didn't go well in this movie would come out. Yeah, that would have been horrible. That would have been horrible. That would have been horrible. You literally at the at the screening yesterday, you introduced her. I almost cried. My friend, I might begin my period with all this crying. My friend, my muse, my partner in crime. I wrote this for this beautiful human being. And then you introduced her. Yeah, that's true. That's so that's like writing a movie for someone is like writing a song for someone, but better. Well, the way I think of it is like, imagine I'm like, I write classical music and she's the best first violinist in the world.

And I feel like I get to have something I wrote played by the greatest first violinist in the world. That's how I think of it. It's like, I'm just sitting there in awe, being like, I can't play the violin like that. Holy shit. So is she super easy to direct? Yeah, we were very collaborative. I wrote it.

We were in lockdown together. So I wrote it, there weren't, she didn't, I didn't, I let her read the script until I was done, but we, we were constantly kind of workshopping it out together. I would come back from a day of writing in my office and say like, hey, I think I figured this out today. And she'd be like, oh, cool, why? Why do you think she does that? And it would kind of force me to answer that. And so we hashed it out together. You know, there's a, there's a scene.

I'm not spoiling anything. I think it's in the trailer. But anyway, she cuts her hair off in the movie and it's her idea. And I said to her, that's a really good idea. but we don't want to deal with wigs because wigs look horrible even on a big budget movie. And how are we going to do that? Logistically, we shoot completely out of order. And that's just like a production nightmare.

And she's like, you'll figure it out. And I was like, and then like a week later, I circled with my old team. And I was like, Florence, we, I really talked to everybody and just logistically, cutting your hair in the middle of the movie is, or at the beginning of the movie even is, is, is kind of logistically impossible. And she was like, you guys will figure it out. But, you know, thanks to her passion to have that be something the character did as a statement, it's something she felt the character would do, we did figure out the logistics of it.

And she really is cutting her hair off in that scene. She really is. Do you practice that? Like, how do you get it right? I was so nervous. First of all, with Florence and her house, we kept sharing images. I'm like, so like this short, like this vibe, like, you know, in Google imaging, like not like me of Farrow, you know, in Rosemary's baby short, right? And they're like, no, no, no, no.

And I'm like, okay. So kind of like, you know, we were like, like, we were like communicating through Google image like this kind of short, right? And then, of course, on the day, I was like, show, I was like the her hairstylist. I was like, show me, show her and me where you want the scissors, you know, because we wanted to look fucked up, but not like who fucked up. I mean, it is pretty fucked up. She loves it.

It was like her favorite haircut, she says. So he showed her like, okay, I would aim on an angle like roughly here, you know, because we didn't want like, like, like, super. super short bangs or anything crazy like that. So, you know, we lined it up with, with the hairstylist, and then she just went for it. I love learning about all these little things about, like, making TV and movies, like you saying you just would never do it on a wig

because it would look stupid and people... I find that even... There's certain examples, obviously, if I think if the hairline is covered, you can, for some reason, you can, a wig can work. But if it's, if it's like my hair right now and, you know, I think, and there's lace, which is what they do to glue it to the head. That works on stage, but I always find it noticeable. Maybe it's just because I'm a filmmaker in the movies.

I often find it just. And people, and a lot of times that can distract. Like, sometimes it's just, it's like small and, you know, maybe you would just care about it. But a lot of times I've seen shows where that's what people are talking about instead of the episode. It's like, oh, that wig was so bad or whatever. Sometimes I have to get by it. I'll love a show, but the wig is so bad. And I'm like, I've been talking to it myself.

Like, you like the show. Stop obsessing about the fucking way. Wait, are you talking about? I'm not going to say what show I'm talking about. Okay, I'll say, I'll say what show I'm talking about because I can. The morning show. Oh, no, I can say it's not that. I don't watch that show.

Oh, okay. Well, we got to make you a list of shows. I know. And what shows do you watch? So we can watch what you're watching. I love the bear. I'm trying to think the first thing that comes in my head. I love the bear.

I love Andor. I thought that was incredible. What's Andor? Andor is a Star Wars show, but it's a different kind of Star Wars show. It was really made for adults, whereas often Star Wars is meant to cater to families, obviously. But Andor was a version of Star Wars where they really wrote it for adults, and it was really incredibly done. What else? I love shrinking, obviously.

I'm trying to think. I love, oh, I watch this show. A lot of people didn't watch, but I highly recommend it called Zero, Zero. That was on Amazon Prime. Oh, my assistant just reminded me, I love the boys so much. Have you watched The Boys? Oh, no. Is that where they like fuck like sea creatures? I'm not going to answer that because there'll be spoilers, but it's a spoof of superheroes and but really like in an R rated insane way and the writing is just incredible.

Oh yeah. It's with Nate Archibald from Gossip Girl. Well, what's his name? Chase Crawford. He's hilarious. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That that has been on my list for a while. Yeah, you like it. It is like super R. You're like sometimes you're like, how are they doing this on TV? Oh my God. Okay. Now I doubt. definitely want to watch. So let's move on. I wanted to know from making Garden State and a good person to very different movies, but have some things in common, right? Like take a place in New Jersey, things you wrote based on your experience. How would you say that they're different or the same or things that you've learned in making a good person that you wish you knew when you were making

Garden State? That's a good question. I was so young when I made Garden State. I certainly didn't think anybody was going to see it. I thought it were like, you know, my parents and like maybe the temple choir would see it. I didn't think that, you know, it would be such a massive success that continues to the soundtrack and the film continued. I mean, someone just told me it's playing on HBO like this week. So it's just 20 years later, the fact that it was so resonating with people I couldn't have predicted that. What they have in common is, is definitely, you know, I've battled depression and anxiety for a lot of my life. And I think that when I look back on Garden State, it was it was sort of an articulation of that for me I was I was you know someone ended up

coining that the idea of the quarter life crisis when you're out of college and the world is just a giant mountain before you and you don't know what who you want to be or what you want to do and I definitely felt that I felt a depression related to not knowing who I was or what I was going to be and it all felt quite daunting and so that was kind of the inspiration for that film and now you know because of all the loss that I experienced in the last four years. I think similarly, this came out of trying to really be authentic with myself and with a little bit of distance and write about the sadness and pain that my family and I have felt as we've navigated all this loss. And how could I articulate that in such a way that

where people would hopefully see themselves in it? And that's what I set out to do. So I think that's what they both have in common. They both have to do with starting to start a new chapter after a loss. You guys, don't we all want trendy jewelry that you know you can wear every day? You don't have to keep in a safe. You don't have to save for that like one wedding in a year. That's Missouri for you. So that's where you should check out, you know, if you want to buy a new chain or a dainty

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bracelet or the necklace, then this is it. Make your own day and go to majuri.com. Missouri is spelled M-E-J-U-R-R. i.com and get yourself a little treat okay you deserve it how do you deal with your anxiety depression now i know you you talked about it a lot and also you said something once it was like you thought that everyone kind of is neurotic and deals with it and and to realize that some people just walk the earth and you know don't don't have their mind exploding with thoughts so how do you deal with your anxiety? It's a process. I have a really great therapist who's been life-changing for me.

Exercise has been life-changing for me. I feel... Don't say that. It is. It is. My strength made a joke. He said, you going in the gym every day will put me out of business. And it's true. The endorphins I get from working out and exercising really help me. Being surrounded by supportive people and sharing and listening to them, both counseling friends, I think, and also being heard by them is very, very helpful. Taking breaks or just stopping drinking has been really helpful to me, because I think that's just literally a depressant. Yeah, anxiety is real. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's funny that you, you know, so I had to just have like talk with myself, like at times when I'm really down. Like, so you're depressed and you're pounding a depressant. Like, what sense?

does that make? So I think alcohol breaks are super helpful to me. And meditation. I mean, I'm just giving you the, I throw the whole, you know, kitchen sink at it, to be honest, lots of, lots of things. Wow. Well, good for you. And thank you for talking about it. I feel like the way you were talking about sharing grief and not that it's like misery is company, but knowing that other people go through shit. Yeah. Just gives you a sense of, not feeling alone. Yeah. And I think, you know, it's one thing, one thing you do at one-on-one with a friend, like you give a friend your honest take and advice, and you kind of feel good helping them, just like hopefully they feel good advising you. But I think when you write something and put it out

to the world, you're hoping, like, in a similar way, I hope that you get something out of this. I hope that you come away with, you know, something that made you look at your own life or or maybe even give you insight into something you're battling. So how would you, because like I look at you and I say, okay, 20 plus year career, right, in Hollywood, which is such a scary place, you know, shit happens there. A lot of shit happens there. And you kind of from the outside at least look like you had a pretty okay ride, right? Like not a lot of drama, not like I just feel like somehow your journey from the outside

looking in is almost like when a. child star ends up okay, you know, and you're like happy. Not that you're a child star, but it's like you seem so grounded and, you know, you still care so much about where you came from, New Jersey. Yeah. So how did you do that? How did you stay so like who you are throughout the years and not get sucked into like the Hollywood of it all? That's a great question. I think I just had great mentors and people that were looking out for me. And, you know, and it's ups and downs, you know, I'm sure like anybody listening, there's ups and downs in your career and in your life. Obviously, Hollywood is a bit that on steroids because it's in the public, if you're in the public eye,

it's in the public eye. There's a lot of, there's so many traps to fall into. It's kind of like an obstacle course, avoiding so many traps. But I think I was surrounded by good people. And I do a lot of work on myself. And to the, you know, now and forever, I'm, I'm actively tried to, to, to work on on being the best version of myself. I can be. Some weeks and days, I do better job with that than others. And I feel like you grew up so quickly in front of our eyes. Because like, I'm thinking about it. You're 47 today, which by the way. Today, April's, well, yeah. You mean in this day and age. Yeah. Currently. I was shocked. I was like, first of all, you look so great. So. drop the Paul Rudd's skin care routine.

It's not that. Although, as you said that, I was like, fuck, I need to dye my cyburns. We're getting very gray. And that head of hair, too. Yeah. This came from my dad. Until the day he passed, he had a big, full head of hair. So I have to thank him for that.

Wait, and people don't know about you. I didn't know your middle name was Israel. Yeah. Interestingly, not after the country necessarily, I suppose, indirectly. But one of my father's heroes was a rabbi very involved in the civil rights movement. And his name was Rabbi Israel Dresner. And my dad really looked up to him and idolized him in a lot of ways. And what's been became his very good friend.

And he named me after him, my middle name. Oh, I love that. But are you connected with your Judaism at all? You know, I feel really connected with the culture of it. We were raised on the Jewish comedy and a Jewish sense of humor and, you know, the theater. And whether it be Neil Simon or Mel Brooks. So I'm connected. and I think of and identify with the culture and the humor and the food and the people and I

actually love going to I visited Israel but I don't I'm not a I'm not a religious person at all I get it I'm the same way I even I used to think about this for the Jews out there I sometimes was so like a traditional Jewish person of like doing the Passover and the whatever that I was fasting on Yom Kippur and then one year I was like why am I fasting and just started asking myself you know, the straight up question. And so many people do that also because of the tradition of it all. And there was no real reason. Like, I didn't believe in the reason I was fasting. So I stopped fasting. Yeah, I grew up. And by the way, I think I may have misused that word. I believe secular means you're not religious. I may have. Right. Secular means you're not. Okay, good. I used a double

negative. I'm secular. I grew up kosher. We, we, yeah, I mean, we had separate sinks, separate silverware, separate dishes. You had to wait an hour. If you, if you had dairy, I'm wait. If you had meat, you had power for dairy, no pork, no shellfish. And back in the day, this is a random trivia. I just, the other day, I don't know if it's still true. But back in the day, Oreos had pig lard in them. And we weren't allowed to eat Oreos. Oh, my God.

Check your ingredients, people. I don't know if they've changed that or not. But there was like an off-brand version called Hydrox. And so we had to eat Hydrox because they didn't have pig lard in them. Oh, my God. So you grew up a super Jew. Yeah. I was bar mitzvah and the whole thing.

My father was very, very into it and religious. Wow. Well, I want to also tell people, if you don't know, Zach also has a podcast out with Donald. Yeah, Donald Faison. Yeah, from Scrubs. And you guys are besties like IRL still, right? Oh, yeah.

I'm Godfathered who his kids. I mean, we met at the table read for Scrubs and just it was love at first sight. We were inseparable. In fact, it got to the point on Scrubs where Bill was running. out of storylines and you'd be like, what did you guys do this weekend? And we tell him some insane shit that we got up to. And then like a couple of days later, it would be in the script. Well, that's really fun, though, that him getting married and having kids didn't like change your relationship. Well, his wife is incredible. Casey Cobb is just a dream. And so she's like one of my best

girlfriends. We joke that we're a thruple because I just do everything with them. And I love him. I love him so much. You guys are so adorable. Okay, you guys, listen, you got to go watch a good person. It's in theaters, March 24th. And thank you so much for your reaction. You DM me after you saw it. And I just want you to know it meant a lot to me what you wrote. And I'm just so happy that you liked it. Oh, my God.

I feel honored to have watched it, you know, before the world could see it. And I'm so excited to see, like, what everybody thinks about it. I'm sure that's such probably a nerve-wracking, you know, few days, weeks for you. It's like you're waiting to see the public's response to it. But, I mean, an amazing performance by the actors, an amazing story. And I don't want to spoil it. So everybody, go watch a good person in theaters. It's out from March 24th.

Zach Raff, you're amazing. Thank you for coming on my show. Thank you for talking to me. Please keep making me laugh on Instagram. You're very funny. I'll do my best. All right. Okay.

Bye, babe. Thank you. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode. of Not Skinny but Not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny but Not Fat. Subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcasts and write a little review. If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocharoo.

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