Not Skinny But Not Fat - Zack & Bliss: Is Love Really Blind?

Episode Date: May 2, 2023

So happy to say I was rooting for them all along! Zack Goytowski and Bliss Poureetezadi share more about how they rekindled their  relationship after the breakup with Irina, what that first date was like, how it happened, meeting her father, and break down all those viral moments Zach had during the season! Produced by Dear Media This episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct, or indirect financial interest in products, or services referred to in this episode.  See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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We talk about what's going on. Tune in every Tuesday and just feel like you're talking about your best friends in your living room. Okay, we need to talk about the number one most important thing firstly. You, I mean, you deserve this, okay, after everything you've been through this season, in my opinion. But I, my inbox when I posted like screen grabs of you from like the reunion, everyone's like Ben Affleck, Ben Affleck, Ben Affleck, are you getting this? Are you like, wait, hello? The funny thing is I'm actually really surprised that that is coming up more. So there was a face psychologist on Reddit.

I don't know if it was really a face psychologist, but they're on Reddit. so it has to be official. Oh, my God. Are you going on Reddit, Zach? I tell him to stay away. Don't even go there. Just don't go there. Oh, my God.

Don't go there. Okay. Let's hear him out. And they said that I have, I must have the most generic face of all time. They listed off a Star Wars level credit scene of everybody they had done, this guy had documented I'd been compared to. And it's crazy.

People I'd never seen. I mean, it was at least like, I think like 70 people. they listed off that supposedly I looked just like, but Ben Affleck was one that I got a lot in undergrad and going into law school until the property brothers hit. And so it's, it's pretty wild that the Ben Affleck one is making a resurgence. Yeah. It's what I mean, first of all, it's a compliment, right? Like he's a good looking guy. He's nagged like Brickin J-Lo. And I saw the property brothers. So this is something you have gotten before, both of these comparisons.

yeah yeah and it must have felt so good for you also especially after the whole irena thing which you know her reaction to you probably it can make a person feel as much as on love is blind you guys are like are you my type well she's not really my type you guys are very honest about it i have i would get so hurt if someone even said like you're not my type would be like why why should be ever so what i mean is you guys are open about like you know, I thought you would look different or whatever, but it's, it still must have hurt her reaction to you. So then to get this like, oh, no, he's actually, you know, an A-list movie star lookalike must feel really good. You know, I, I think for me, it had more to do with being

somewhat played that hurt and then necessarily like her not liking my physical appearance. I don't think that really bugged me. If you saw, like, I even had. address that with her where I was like, look, if I'm not your type, I'm not your type. Like, let's just, that's, that wasn't a big thing for me. And, and that's the truth is that everybody has something else that they're looking for, right? Not, not everybody has the same physical type that they're looking for. But the point of love is blind is to figure out, what's the point. Tell me. You're like, you're, what your type is emotionally, like what you're looking for in a person. And so I, I think that a lot of,

what you saw, well, I don't think I know. A lot of what you saw was an over-dramatized reaction. So, I mean, I don't think I took it too personal, but yeah. Are you confident? Bliss, is he, like, a really confident person? Yeah, he's definitely super confident for sure. I think, like, even in that scenario, like, not falling apart, you know, and just, like, kind of staying true to himself shows that he is super confident.

I'd say he's more confident. That was one of my favorite parts, like, when you told her. I don't remember where you were sitting, but when you were like, listen, because I thought, for some reason, the way the story was introduced, like, I thought you were going to be played for longer. Do you know what I mean? That's just how I saw things going. You know, I thought this would be longer. It would be dragged out more. So when you kind of put the bottom line, you were like, listen, you're not feeling this. It's not it. Like, let's end it. I was like, hallelujah. Like, I was so happy because I don't know, maybe we've seen this before in reality TV where like, you know. it's not it but it's being dragged and the fact that you put an end to it like so for me really when i when i made that decision like everybody had gone through so much right and i was completely a like a wreck in mexico by that by the end of it it was just like it was so exhausting and by the way when i say over dramatized just to be clear i'm not talking about over dramatized on the editing I'm talking, like, over-dramatized on the way that, yeah.

There was a lot of things happening kind of off-camera that she was doing. Like, it's just a lot of it. Yeah, and honestly, we're both moved on from it, but just to say, I've not moved on. What? Tell me. You know, it's not, it's not something that we really care too much about. But it is something that I think a lot of people don't understand,

is that you're not actually seeing the entirety of what was going. on what was it worse like was it worse than what we were saying better yeah no it was not the same the things that were said behind closed doors were substantially worse but but there was a point where i realized like so what had been conveyed to me and then what was actually happening in the real world was different and when i realized that there was communications happening from my fiance say that were disparaging to me to other people as well as in interviews, like, like there were, there was a lot of red flags. Like, there'd be questions like, hey, you're not saying anything bad about me,

are you before they, before I'd be interviewed in private. And so those are kind of like, hey, what? But there was a point where I figured out that that was happening and that was on the second day. And that really hurt to know like that someone was disparaging you. And honestly, that was the point. where I realized like hey I'm I'm out and there were some things that happened that made it very clear that there was some acting going on on screen where the the ick was a little bit about telling a story

and I just wasn't you know I wasn't going I wasn't there to be on a reality TV show like I was there to try to find a wife and I realized that that person was not looking for that and so I was okay i'm not you know and and the truth was and this is to irena's point that one of the things she said that i think is true i was distraught when i ended it with bliss i think irina knew that i was distraught when i ended it with bliss i think everybody could tell that i had made a mistake i knew i had made a mistake and i think that when irena and i had met the connection wasn't there so and i think that is true i think that like she could feel that i could feel that. But the difference was, is like, I'm like, okay, I'm still going to treat you with

respect and try to move forward with this and see if we can make something of it. But that's just kind of my personality is like when I make a decision, I stubbornly kind of continue forward with it. And that's probably a bad trait. It's caused me success in some areas. And as you've seen cost me to make or continue on bad paths. But I was proud of myself in that, you know, I did recognize that it was a mistake. And I decided like, hey, I'm not, I'm not going to continue on with this. Have you guys tried 21 seeds? It's amazing award-winning infused tequila. Okay, 21 seeds is a one-of-a-kind tequila infused with a juice of real fruit. It's smooth. It's not sweet. It smells fresh and bright and tastes incredible. I'm like either white wine or tequila, blanco, kind of a girlie. But I'm

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It got like a viral. I'm not getting any of it right now. I'm like, hey, he's not even looking at me. No, but now I just remembered in a conversation with you where that's not something that I feel, right? I'm like, wait, we hadn't actually felt that since that moment where that was happening. Do you get what I'm saying?

So when you heard the list like, I know. I know. So in that moment or watching it back when you found out there was this discussion of like the intense eye contact situation. People were talking about people were analyzing it, diagnosing you with things, right? Like what was that like and were you ever told it before? And I haven't noticed it since like on the show, the reunion or even now. So I'll say two things. One, I do think I can have a pretty strong game. Especially when you're shocked. You're like, whoa. Yeah. You got to do. Yeah. And so. Well, not like Marshall and is, right? Like Marshall has more like I stuff going on. He's expressive. I don't know if he would say that. But I think that, I think that, you know, when you're trying to connect with someone, you want to look at them in the eyes. But if you don't want to be seen, if you, if you, if you don't want people to know what's going on inside of you, you don't want them to look at you the eyes in the eyes. I would say that the blinking thing is just not, it's just not true. Like, if you, you know, the way, the way that that got played up was just, if you, you go watch like three random reels that I play and count my blinks, okay? Like, just count them at the reunion when it's live. Like, it's not, it's not a thing. But the other thing that I think is quite interesting is a thing called attentional bias.

And I've talked a lot about this. And it's something that I deal with in my profession as a lawyer. Are you a criminal defense lawyer? Yeah. So attentional bias is this phenomenon where, one, whatever attention is direct. directed to, we associate it with being more important than it actually is. So then that's like a valuable thing in life to know is like whatever your attention is focused on, whatever problem it is, it's probably less important than you actually think it is. But the other one is that whatever

our attention is directed to, we associate causal properties with. And this is going to be an interesting psychological thought experiment. Now, does he do the solop list? Does he explain like these big things? Yeah, yeah. I learned so much up. No, I want to know. I want to. I want to Like, I'm interested. I learn every day. So if you look at, like, think about the old saying, don't shoot the messenger. The reason that existed is throughout history, you know, you go back to the Roman times, whenever there was a battle and there had been defeat, the messenger would come back and tell

this story of defeat, right? And everyone would kill the messenger. They would literally kill the messenger. And if there was a victory, everyone would praise the messenger and they would celebrate with them and they'd have drinks. And because we associate the cause of an event with whatever attention is directed to. Now, if you remember the event that happened with Irina had met, I think everyone had attributed that event to me.

But why? Because think it's something that we do subconsciously without realizing it. We, when there's something awkward that's happening, we will defensively project attention onto the other person with accusations, accusing that it's like, why are you making this awkward. It's like, well, am I making this awkward? What is the situation? And it's hard for anyone to see this. But if you look, when Irene is like saying things like, you don't blank, you look like a cartoon character, you can see the situation's awkward and you automatically kind of attribute it to me, right? And maybe I played a role in it because I'm like, okay,

but I actually, believe it or not, I actually tried to calm the situation down and you don't see that. Like, I tried to, like, when I got there, I was like, hey, let's move around. Let's try to, you know, calm our nerves. And it was just so I thought about that situation a lot. And I think because the attention is directed towards me, you naturally attribute me to the cause of the situation. But if you look at my interaction with Bliss when we first meet, arguably, the stakes are a lot higher, right? Right. So, like, we're meeting.

And Bliss and I actually have some tension because of what. Oh, I see what you're. Okay. It's taking me a minute. Yeah. I'm connecting it to the don't shoot the messenger. I'm connecting all these dots. So you're saying because she's directing the weirdness onto you, we're focusing on you.

But it wasn't actually all you making it weird and cringy. Right. Yeah. But it's hard to see that. Yeah. No, I get it. I get it. I get it.

And also things are blown up like, yeah, there was, it was a lot. it was a lot towards that and then you met Bliss but I want to go back to to meeting bliss in the pods because you know this is a part that I like about love is blind is that it moves right and as a as a viewer it's fun because you're like okay they get there they meet pause a few people they pick one they go to Mexico like I like that but I know that we probably miss so much you know so tell me about meeting in the pods both of you from from your perspective bliss like meeting Zach thinking he's the one at some point he breaks it off we saw you like at least there's there's video proof he was upset he was very upset so tell me about that yeah i think you know

it's such a unique experience to be able to date in this way body language is so important you have all these biases when you physically see someone subconsciously you're not even aware of for me it was pretty like like day one or for a seven minute date like i just had this like feeling like this just like feeling inside of my heart like this is my husband not that i like loved him right away i just like felt it it was really really bizarre and i like took a long time for me to even be able to like admit that out loud because that sounds bonkers and i'm such a logical person like i didn't even really know him at that point right but with each date we just kind of got like closer and he just kind kept hitting like every point like yep we connect on this we connect on this we connect on this and

it just felt like so right and then of course getting like involved into all of this drama that I had absolutely no desire to be a part of really just made it kind of like worse. And I never want to feel like I'm in competition, especially for a guy. Like, that's just not my vibe. I'm not. But did you? So tell me more about that. Like, because love is blind is different. You don't live in a villa. Right. You go back to your jobs. But you do have those quarters. So like how much do you hang out there and did you see like, do you guys see other girls talking about the guy that you know that you met and like what's going on? there. Yeah, we spend all day there. So whenever we're not on a date, we're in the lounge. So we're

there from like, what, 7 a.m. until later until the evening. So you really, that's why there's such close friendship that come out of it, because you're always there. You're always around each other. And you definitely overhear things. Sometimes people will purposefully talk loudly about a guy, you know what I mean, to try to like stir stuff up. And I really just tried to like ignore it all. Obviously, there was a point where I couldn't ignore it because of what, you know, all the different things that were happening and the cupcake stuff and whatever. But I just- What's the cupcake of? Yeah, the cupcake, the cupcake gave, or the candle thing, I guess, the whole candle thing where

Irene asked for a candle and when I cooked him cupcakes for his birthday, I forgot in. And that whole morning, there was a conversation about like me telling her like, look, let's just like drop it. Like, you stay in your lane. I'll stay in mine. And she kind of disrespected that. So it just kicked off into this whole dramatic. So you weren't getting along with her like in the quarters. separately. Yeah. Yeah, I was trying to. I was really trying to like, I kept bringing up the conversation,

like, just like, let's just let it be. Like, it doesn't have to be this way. We don't have to talk about him. You do your thing. I do mine thing. This isn't a competition. Did it sound like she was gunning for him? Yeah, for sure. And other guys. Like, she definitely, I wasn't the only one she kind of was trying to like mess with. It was definitely like other people. And hopefully she's learned to not do that in the future. But you spent so much time together. So separately, she and I just maybe didn't click, right? Like personality wise, we're just super different. And then back in the pods with him, you know, I knew obviously he was very open and transparent about what was going on. And he was between, you know, these two people. And I never told him what she did. Like I kind of alluded a

little bit to there being things like not good. But I never wanted to tell him details because I didn't want to manipulate him or try to like force him to choosing me by default. essentially. So maybe that was a little unfair on my side, but I was like, I'm not going to talk about her that much because it's just as nothing to do with us kind of thing. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And then we ended things and like I was very like. So how many dates did you have? Like how many dates did you have? We had probably. So there we had there's like two dates a day. So and they're each like hours long. So we probably have like hours hours long. Five hours long. Yeah. No. Yeah. You had a five hour date?

I know, right? Like, you're like, hot. Wait, the first one is seven minutes. Like, that's just the way it is. Yeah, day one, because you have to meet everyone. And there's 15 guys, 15 girls. So they do seven minutes, like a speed dating kind of thing. And then you cut it pretty quickly in half.

And then you keep cutting it each day. And the dates get longer and longer and longer. So I think the longest one we've had was five hours. Yeah, is that sound right? Do you take, like, pee breaks? Do you go and, like, come back and get a drink or whatever? Yeah, you go to the. the bathroom, get drinks, you get food. Wow. So first of all, now it makes sense like Tiffany

could have fallen asleep. So let's give her. Yeah, you're seeing 15 minutes. We're all, we're all like, you get to a point where so, you've been talking so long, you've become delirious. Yeah. I had this moment with Bliss that is now the second most embarrassing moment of my life where we're talking about Leon Woolmac. And I'm so tired. I'm so tired. And I remember when I said it in my gut. I was like, okay, just don't, don't acknowledge it. There's at least, yeah, at least it won't end up in the cut. And I see it sit there.

And I'm like, oh, man. It's so funny. So you have five hour conversation. So you're spilling like your whole life to this person. Yeah. It's like you think like, how do these people fall in love in just a short period of time? But then you don't realize like how long these dates are. And all you're doing is talking, right?

There's not a physical. Right. things you're just literally talking playing games just like getting to the nitty gritty singing songs yes i sing so many songs you all these okay we need that's a whole i mean listen i'm i got your back zach okay i'm not sure that i can defend the singing on every occasion but you know what she loves you so much like first of all fucking like wow this woman even when you sing even when Zach we need to talk about the singing okay let's talk about the singing you is that like a dream is that like you want always wanted to sing i wanted just out of it it's so funny because we there's not like music in the pod so

i told my family i'm like i need these guys to sing to me because i like need music so and it worked out okay so this is the interesting thing on the singing thing you know i had i had always liked you know just singing to random music but i had never actually tried to learn how to to sing until it was fairly recent but I adulthood yeah yeah obviously but I have the propensity for auditory information and and just the ability to to store auditory information pretty rapidly so I going in the pods I had had memorized around like 30 different songs that I could sing from beginning to end and so wait like you made it a point you're like 30 like you pick 30 well just

over time like I would I'd try to learn a song like a day and it usually takes me about 30 minutes to memorize a song and then I would I would try to memorize like songs that I really liked or had had a deep meaning to me and so a part of like in the pods was like sharing some of the songs and some of the dates you don't actually see there was another person that had dated for substantially a while and there was a point where they had asked me a question about the songs that I would sing because they were like, a lot of your songs are really depressing and dark. And like I, it was like that moment actually helped me realize and help them realize that we weren't meant to be together because singing did not like for them.

Wait, there was now remembering there was drama about one of your songs too. Wow, you really went viral this season. One of the songs that you sing, I guess you didn't say that it was an original Zach. but for some reason like people were talking about the singing and then it was like he didn't even make up the song he took the song oh man yeah the internet sleuths out there wait did you say in the pod though this is i wrote this yeah so Netflix was amazing on this and i was really impressed because there were some internet sleuths and there's quite a few and like you know i can't respond to all of them where i talked to bliss and i'm like

respond to this and she's like don't respond don't respond but on this one it was quite necessary because there was someone who had put out a thing that had they had said Zach Kotowski's a liar and a thief and a plagiarist and then it just got viral and I was like okay I have to address this so if you actually check I did put out a video addressing this but Netflix provided a completely unedited version of the events so that you could see exactly and it was just for time right And you can only put so much time. Like, there's not, they don't have time to show the entire, you know. Right.

They weren't trying to make you out to be a play dress. It just didn't. Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't an important. People would have tuned out if it would have gone longer than 31 seconds, right? So, wait, so what was the part that that was missing? Well, so I say, I wrote you a song.

It's not, it's not, it's not. I don't remember the exact words, but it's not an original song. I've changed the words just a little bit. And so I posted that so people could see that. It's like, I never, I never claim that it's in a... He loves those receipts. I mean, listen, if you have the receipts, you know what I mean? Yeah.

Why not? But Netflix, the only reason I was able to get that is because Netflix provided them to us to clear our name. And I was really impressed by how well they treated us. So that was, that was nice to be able to provide that. Because otherwise, it had just been my word, right? He's a lawyer, so it wouldn't got well with it being a liar. Wait, so Bliss, when he was singing you songs, you were you were into it you were like yeah my god i wanted i wanted somebody to sing me it might

have been the deprivation of music but i you know but yeah i did and like for me like i grew up singing too and like singing supposed to be fun it doesn't always have to be like perfectly good not that you're not not that you're best i'm just saying it doesn't have to be like this a really good thing and i miss the jason bever concert to go to the positive he sang some jason biever songs so i was like sweet this is great give me more you know i miss the concert so God, that's so cute. Are you mad that he's saying to other girls? Or you're like, I wish you just sing to me. At least you're, I kind of think that it was nice that I missed out on that one song. That song, I think, just wasn't. Maybe wouldn't have landed as well. So I think it was sung

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is it's such a healthy amount of it, you know? I feel like so many people would have missed out on a love story because of ego. You know what I mean? Would have been like, well, I'm not going to, you know, look like I, you know, came back to this or, and you managed to put it aside. So tell me about hearing from Zach after the breakup in Mexico and going on that, on that date with him. Yeah. You know, I, I was surprised that, you know, there was like, let's reach out this soon and like meet up. And I wanted to be open to because to your point, like, it would have been like an ego and pride thing. And I had to make a decision. Like, because I, felt like I knew this was my person. I was like, I'm going to give him an opportunity.

And I'm not going to like let my pride or my ego get in the way of like something that's potentially like, you know, my person. And so it took a struggle to get there. It wasn't as easy, right? But I was like, okay, I'm going to hear him out. And the producers kind of how did he reach out to you? Did he reach out to you personally? He didn't have my phone number and my information. So he reached out to the producers. The producers reached out to me. And I was like, what? Like really? Okay. Like fine. I'll like. go hear him out and like you can kind of see that I'm maybe a little bit like trying to hold you know what I mean my emotion back like standoffish yeah yeah I'm a little

stature you know I got to give him a hard time a little bit but there was just like this really intense connection like the moment our eyes locked it was like this crazy chemistry and I was I was surprised by that to be honest like obviously I had developed love for him I was like okay like I felt like this was my person but the physical side to really like have that come full circle too was really intense and like really unexpected and so is he like your type usually like you guys talk about type yeah i mean he's not not my type you know what i mean like i would it be like he's not my type but like yeah i think like the guys i've dated the past they look pretty similar to him i mean he looks like

a hundred and twenty people exactly oh man i you know what i'm looking back and like from the beginning of watching i think at the very beginning i was like oh i like him like i was I was team Zach and even when you guys got engaged I remember I was like I am rooting for them and I have to you know I'm always going to be honest there was some you know I like to I can see kind of the consensus half we're kind of like pro half for like what this is too quick like it's not believable like people thought it was like you know not real but I have to say that by your wedding it was like unanimous like everyone you know is supportive and loves you and as a couple. So it was. was a slow build i feel like for the audience too it was definitely like a slow burn for the audience for sure yeah so when we met i was not looking for anything just just to be clear about like when that happened i like when i was in mexico i mean i remember the entire time i was laying there is like you should have you should have proposed to bliss like regardless of what would have happened you should have proposed to her and like a big part of my decision was based in fear like i

was very afraid about what would happen my decision to not go forward with us getting engaged was about us and it was about my fear about us and i already knew how strong i felt about her and i was so afraid of like how it would feel if it didn't work like if we continued on where we were and then we got to the altar and it didn't work but when we met in person like my my my my entire like thought process there was like, okay, you messed up. Like you need to apologize. So this is actually the gift that I brought her. And this is this is one of these, there was so much serendipity that happened in us meeting. But so I, these two bookends are my favorite bookends. They're two astronauts on the moon and they're holding the books together.

And I brought those with me. You don't, you don't see that. But it was really just like she made me cupcakes. She gave me these quartz hearts that I kept with me. And she gave me now one of my favorite books read Rising. And so when I was in Mexico, like, and I was going through all of this pain, like I was reading the book and I had the court's heart and I was just thinking about her and how well, you know, she had treated me and how bad I was being treated. And so I, I really, I didn't want to even date. Like I, I, when I, I talked to a lot of friends and they had all like oh you should you should go talk to bliss you should talk to bliss one one of them was martial martial had actually reached out to me and encouraged me to to meet with bliss

but in my mindset going into that it was like I am really messed up after what had happened in Mexico and you weren't going to be like I'm going to try to win you back like I'm going to try to apologize and like I was yeah I was going to apologize but at no point was my goal to try to to win her back but the second she why did you feel like you had to apologize because you felt like you heard her. I don't know if it was so much about that. I think it was more that, like, she had warned me a little bit. And I, yeah, I felt like, I just felt like, I don't know how to describe this, but my thought

process in Mexico was you should have proposed to Bliss. Like, you should have, like, regardless of whether it would have worked, you know that that's who you should have proposed to. Like, I mean, I knew it, like, after I ended it with Bliss, I, I was, I was devastated and I knew in that moment, like, how devastated I was that I should have made, I shouldn't have done it. And I, but I, the stubbornness, right? I was like, okay, you made you decision. You have to stick with it, even if you know it's wrong.

Like, even if it's hard, it's hard to explain how you can be that stubborn, but I, I, I can be very stubborn. She can get. Liz, what did you feel like when the breakup happened? like how you were so sure and he was probably making you feel sure. So what was going through your mind at that point? Yeah. I think I was just going to accept it. You know, I mean, we both had to be on the same page.

I was like, maybe I was losing my mind a little bit. Maybe me like knowing so sure was maybe I was a little off my rocker. And maybe I was wrong, you know, even though I felt like I was right. And it turns out I was. But I'm never going to be the type of person. to try to convince someone to stay with me or be with me. I was like, look, like, if this is a decision that you feel is right, I'm going to accept that. I'm going to wish you the best. And I'm just going to have faith that things are going to work out for me, you know? And so it just,

it was really obviously very heartbreaking. And you don't see me cry as much as I did. Like, I cried a lot. It was still really painful. But ultimately, I wanted him to be happy. And I knew that it had to be right for him to, you know, even though I. Yeah, you want him to want it. You wouldn't want. Yeah. And I felt like I knew he was making the wrong choice too, but I just was like, I can't tell him this. I can't be like, look, you need to do this. You need to do this. Like you're doing, you're making a mistake. Like it's just like you have to come to this on your own. It sounds like Zach, when you talk about the engagement, it sounds to me like you're still trying, because you're such a deep dude. You're like still trying to understand why the

fuck you would do that. Right. Like it sounds like you're trying to be like, I think that I was thinking, Like, you're still trying to be like, how did I do? Even though it doesn't matter now, right? It was on a TV show, you're happily together now. But in terms of, you know, you, you seem like you want to find a reason that in that moment you would choose to do the thing that you kind of knew wasn't the right thing. I think I've had a lot of time to think about it. And I actually don't think that I use the word I think, but I would actually say I know. like I know what what that decision was based on so I don't think I would say I'm still trying

to like figure it out I think I've figured wait can you can you tell us yeah yeah I mean it was it was based on fear so the thing the thing this is something that I don't think a lot of people understand about the dynamic I would say that the arena and and bless conversation they were very independent of each other they didn't have any influence right like A lot of people think, oh, you pick someone over this person. That's not what happened, right? If all things had been the same, if I didn't have the concerns about the allergies and I didn't have the concerns about being rejected by her family, which bliss, obviously,

that wasn't as real of a risk as I thought it was. Yeah, there was no way for you to know. She had tried to, you know, convince me that it wasn't. but I knew how important family was to her and I, you know, when she had mentioned that her father had never accepted any guys, I, you were really fearful about it. I felt like maybe she thought that it wasn't a big deal to her, but, you know, if her father rejected me, that might end up being something that would have ended up in a saying, you know, or her saying, I don't when we got to the altar. So there was a lot of fear in what motivated me with that decision. But the thing about the pods is you get vulnerable. Like I realized that if I wanted to actually find a wife, which I did, I was going to have to be vulnerable with people.

And I ended up becoming very vulnerable with multiple people in the pods. And I genuinely did fall in love, right, with two people, which was wild. And that was so hard. I never wanted to get that. And I'm usually very guarded. for just that reason in the past they had been very guarded because i didn't want to fall in love too quickly and i think that you know maybe there's a reason why you people are careful about being vulnerable right is because you you if you're too vulnerable then you will actually

sometimes fall in love with someone you shouldn't and well i think irina was also showing you things a lot different in the pod yes she was showing every right i was going to ask because then when you met, it wasn't really the same person that you were talking to. In the pods, she was very, very sweet and always made me feel really appreciated and would talk specifically about everything that she thought was special about me. So there's a lot of stuff you don't, you don't see on that side. But like, genuinely, it really ripped me apart because I have never wanted to ever make someone feel like they were chosen over someone else. And it wasn't the case of what happened, but I know how it can feel like that.

And so it really wrecked me, like trying to navigate this situation where I really don't want to hurt either person. It's golf. It's not golf. It's top golf. You guys, I think we should all just stop going just to dinner. with our significant other with our friends you got to do things that are experiences you got to do things that you know create some sort of a vibe go to a movie go to a show some culture or golf and you don't have to know how to golf to go to top golf that's the thing and if you want to try

your first time go on a tuesday because top golf has half price tuesdays so it's a whole day each week dedicated to more play for less pay so on tuesday all gameplay is half price race. So it literally gives you more time to play. I feel like I'm the type of person. When I first went, I got there and I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. Like, I don't even know how many points. Where am I supposed to go? And then by the end of it, I was literally like trying to get the ball in. So competitive. Like, how are we done with time? Like, no, add more time. It's so much fun at Top Golf. They have giant TVs, handcrafted food and beverage menu. They have balls. They have clubs. They have turf. They have a ball picker up or cart thing. They have music. They have giant targets. and their giant fairway. It's just really a lot of fun, you guys. They're all about play, but they have some rules. Half price Tuesday applies to game play only isn't offered at every venue

and can be doubled up with other offers or discounts. So go check at topgolf.com slash Tuesday. Topgolf.com slash Tuesday. Go play some golf at Topgolf. And if you want to go on Tuesday, it'll be half off. Okay, so cut to you guys. getting together after Mexico. Zach comes in the mindset of I'm just meeting her. You came with the bookends. Why'd you come with the bookends? It was a gift. So listen. Oh, it was a gift. So you got them for

her. I thought you owned them before. Oh, yeah. He was rinket. They were. It sounds bad. So what you should know about that gift is like they were actually my favorite bookends. Like I like and it was this moment where I walked in and I told you about them on the pods or something. He talked a lot about the moon, like about the moon and wanting to go to the moon and go to space and stuff. And so that was really the connection there. And in the pods, you actually bring gifts. They don't only show this, but you bring gifts to bring the other person. It kind of represent you or what you want to give to someone. So that was kind of, because I had given him my gifts, like gifts for him. And so he was kind of like reciprocating a gift. Oh, I see. Okay.

That gives it context. Okay. So you come with the bookends. You don't plan. on pursuing it romantically but then what what changes your mind so the second bliss walked in my my first thought was uh-oh it was i remember like i saw we connected eyes i was like uh-oh because i just knew i knew in the pods i was i was so close to actually getting engaged with her everything that i wanted in a wife she had in spades like i already knew that right like i i knew that in the pods that she was everything that I was looking for. You know, I had my my little checklist and bliss marks off every everything that I'm looking for and things I wasn't looking for like that I should have been looking for. And so I knew already. And the second she walked in and

our eyes locked and I could just feel that spark, because that's the real question, right? That's what everybody wants. That's what I want. And when I knew that spark was there and I could feel it with us and it never went away and it still hasn't gone away, I just, I knew. And I was like, okay, I'm not in the place to like be pursuing a relationship after what had just happened, but I, I wasn't going to just let that slip, right? Like I'd already, I'd already made the mistake once. And then we just kept talking after that, like nonstop. And there was just so much chemistry and I was like, okay, let's see what happens.

Liz, did you know right away that did you have the same feeling? Like, did you know like, fuck, I thought I would be strong. and I'm not going to be able to restrain myself from this, you know, Ben Affleck to 2.0. Yeah, I mean, honestly, like, I'm trying to quell my smile. Like, when I'm walking up to him, I'm like trying to force my smile down. I'm trying to be like, yeah, like, well, you know, like, well, you know, like, well, it was working because I'm telling you, you did look standoff. So I didn't see you looked. I was like, she's not happy.

No, good. I'm glad that came off because I wasn't. But, yeah, it was. pretty it was pretty shocking i was like whoa like this is crazy so how long after that was the engagement a week yeah oh my jeez yeah so i i think it was after our second day that i made the decision i said okay i'm gonna i'm gonna propose and i remember she gave me it gave me this call and i was at target and i was planning everything i was getting everything prepared for the proposal and i knew she loves water so i wanted it to be on a boat for her because she just she loves

water. We talked about that in the pods. And I asked her, how do you feel about pirate ships? It was like, what? Like, fine, I guess. Like, so I was going to get like a Pirates of the Caribbean ship, but we couldn't get one on like two days. Oh, thank the Lord. Yeah, the other boat was definitely more the vibe. Yeah, more the vibe. Wow. God is, you know, working. It's magic. The Pirates the Caribbean quote was not available. It's magic for sure to make all this work out. Zach, are you, like, obsessed with your new mother-in-law? I love the family.

Yeah. Yeah. Wait, so what about your dad? Because was that as awkward as it looked on TV, the meeting with Bliss's father? It wasn't quite as awkward as it looked. It was. It was, it was very, very tense. So I don't know exactly what was.

happening when I went upstairs because oh yeah and and so I had left and there was this moment where bliss I had kind of gotten a little little heated with with her dad and I just heard I love him dad and I was like this doesn't sound like it's going well he made up that sounds like out of a movie that scene yeah it was actually I love him. I don't know why that's funny. Oh my God. And you hearing that, Zach, and thinking like, oh, no.

So before we go, I just wanted to know that at the reunion, Zach, you didn't look like you looked today. Like, not physically. We've talked about that. You were heated AF. Like, you came in. Like, today you're like, chill. You're laughing.

Like, it's behind us. Tell me about coming into that reunion. Why were you so heated? Was there more that you wanted to say that we didn't see? No, I think I said everything that I wanted to say. I think for me going into it, it was this very big moment. I talked to Bliss. I talked a lot about this the entire time, which was, you know, this is like, or 15 minutes of fame.

Like, this is as big as we're going to get. You know, like, no one's like I, that's my, my thought about it. Like, I, 10 years from now, there's not going to be 10 million people tuning in live to listen to me speak. I just don't see that in the future. So going into it, it was really important to me that I asked myself, what is it that you want the world to hear? Like, what is it that you want the world to hear? And I think the thing that the world needs more than anything is grace.

We need to give each other grace. We need to extend grace. And it was this huge balance for me of like balancing grace and accountability. And what does that look like? and I don't know if there's ever a clear answer because I didn't want to pretend what happened on the show didn't happen, right? So I tried to as gracefully as possible without going into all the details and this being bad. Just to say quite frank, what happened? This is what happened. I said it as clearly as I could without talking about the details or condemning anyone. I really

tried to do that and balancing that with also saying like, look, I believe in forgiveness. I believe that every human life is redeemable, no matter how bad the mistakes you've made, you can become better. But we also have to, there has to be some accountability too. So I tried to balance that. I think when you see me getting a little upset, it had more to do with the way Paul was being treated. I did not like that. And I knew, because Paul came out and I had talked to him about before he went out there and about taking accountability for his side of what happened and apologizing. And he did that, right? He got up there. He's like, look, I'm sorry. I could have worded this differently.

And they just kept going into him. And I was so upset about that because there's so much he could have said to defend himself, but he chose not to say anything. And the way it was looking, the way that it was being portrayed was really making it look like Paul was this really bad guy. And there's a lot of stuff. It's not really my place to talk about that had happened and transpired before going on there with Paul. Paul was a wreck. Paul was a total wreck going in before he was he yeah so when

I saw that like it's like they weren't accepting his apology and they just kept pushing him on it like he had a right to say no for whatever reason he wanted to if he decided it wasn't right for him you know maybe that hurt but so did so did she and so like the fact he said like look maybe I said something that it should have ended right there and so that that's what I was not going to just sit there and allow them to kind of bash on to Paul and you'll notice when I said what I said nobody chimed in and said the opposite about Micah yes yeah so there about oh you said that she wasn't planning on saying yes or something so I I yeah and are you good friends with Paul yeah like still we're really good friends yeah we talk quite a bit and is he doing okay now did he get was that just like tell me because I really look to like the people and I didn't feel like maybe at the reunion you felt like he was being attacked but I'm telling you like on the people side like on the people people weren't hating on him or what he said do you get what I'm saying right people are more team

Paul I think if you get what I mean yeah I don't think people are we're taking that and running with it as much that's good yeah I think we just know Micah and just know like how things can be kind of twisted and I think he wanted to kind of put an end to that before it kept getting deeper down. Yeah, the way, look, the way it had been portrayed and that whole viral thing. Like, Paul was a wreck after, after what had happened at the wedding. Like doing better. And he, he was really torn up about like what to do and we'd talk so much. And just the way like, I think it, the way that kind of that, that video was trying to paint him, And it was crazy to me that that actually...

Wait, what video that he was, like, touching the girl with? Yeah, the asser. Okay, I... Alleged. Literally, do you guys watch Vanderpump Rules? No, I need to, though. Okay. Okay, so there's a lot of drama there.

Anyway, there was like a real life cheating situation. And on the show, the same week, the reunion happened and there was that viral touching butt moment, the same thing happened on Vanderpump Rules. But, like, in real life, those people actually were found out to be cheating. So I was like, okay, here there's actual like a story and like he touched her butt and now it makes sense because they were cheating with the with the Paul thing. I was like this is so this is why like I'm not on TikTok by the way. I'm like this is not real like he's not touching her butt. It's so obvious that this is not a romantic thing. But I really important for me to say before we go is during the reunion Zach the grace versus accountability and you pointed everyone to go. look at a post of your or is called The Receipts. It's pinned to your profile. I went through it.

Zach shares his whole story about his mom and really beautiful. And the song, I hope you dance and the meaning to it on your wedding day, which literally like I rewound to like watch again. That's how emotional your wedding was to me. I think that one of the most emotional on love is blind. Yeah. So everyone should go read it to get to know your story more, Zach, and get to know what you were talking about, probably a lot of,

of those five hours, I'm assuming, and why that was important to you. So thank you both for coming on. I wish you the best of fucking luck. I am so proud to say I rooted for you from the beginning. And I hope that, you know, that you stay as happy as you look right now, honestly. Thank you so much. Yeah. No, kiss.

No, I'm just scared. I just felt like a moment, you know? Was I the only one? I felt like there was a moment there. Thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Not Skinny but Not Fat. Follow me on Instagram at Not Skinny but Not Fat. Subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss any episodes. Rate the podcast that you love so much on Apple Podcasts and write a little review.

If you tell me you did, I'll give you a big virtual smoocharoo. Thank you guys so much for listening and I'll see you next Tuesday. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this episode.