Not Your Father’s Data Center - Innovations in Data Center and Electrical Systems Management with Phanney Kim Brevard

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

In this discussion, Raymond Hawkins, Chief Revenue Officer at Compass Datacenters engages with Phanney Kim Brevard, Chief Strategy Officer and newly appointed Chief Information Officer, of ETAP-Operation Technology at Schneider Electric.  The conversation delves into the complex world of data center management and electrical systems. ETAP, a hardware-agnostic software company acquired by Schneider, specializes in designing and simulating electrical systems for various industries, with a focus on energy optimization, compliance, and safety.The dialogue touches upon the significance of digital twins in modeling and simulating electrical systems, providing real-time insights and ensuring operational efficiency. The hardware-agnostic nature of Etap's solutions is emphasized, allowing connectivity with diverse power systems. The conversation also highlights the importance of a centralized platform for stakeholders in the data center value chain, ensuring a shared and accurate version of the truth. The episode concludes with a reflection on the evolving landscape of technology and the transformative impact of digital twins on electrical system management. Overall, the discussion offers valuable insights into the critical role of innovative software solutions in enhancing the safety, sustainability, and efficiency of data center operations.Phanney’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phanneykimbrevard/ 

When Ellie asked me, she said, Mommy, were you alive when there were these things called phone books? Were you alive? Thanks, honey. I felt a hundred that day. All right. Welcome to another edition of Not Your Father's Data Center. I am Raymond Hawkins, Chief Revenue Officer with Compass here in Dallas, Texas. Today, we are joined by the newly crowned Chief Information Officer, already Chief Strategy Officer at ETAP, a Schneider company.

Panay Bravard. Panay, thank you for joining us. Tell us about the new title. The new title. Well, one, thank you for having me. I know we've been waiting to do this for a while. And then, you know, the whole Dallas-New York Giants game got in the way. For sure. And then I had to see the New England Patriots fall from grace. But yes. Precipitous fall from grace, we might say. It hurt.

It hurts. Let's spend a few minutes on how great Bill's press conference, I'm getting ready for Kansas City. What's your future? I'm getting ready for Kansas City. I mean, that was epic. It's epic Bill Belichick. It really is. Just like a few years ago when we're on to Cincinnati.

Okay. Right? But just moving forward without a plan or moving forward without any signs of change to your plan. Yeah. Just get us a good draft pick for next year, and then I'll just. Honey, are you advocating tanking already? Is that what you're saying? No, I would never advocate tanking.

Fight as hard as possible knowing the long-term play here. Okay. Let's fight hard and keep the draft in mind is what I think I hear you saying. Yes, yes, right? There's always the short-term gain, but it's the long-term play. You know, that's the strategy side of it. Delayed gratification is key, even in the NFL draft. All right, Pane.

So you and I know each other, but the folks that listen to us don't. So tell us a little bit about you. Okay. And if we end up back at football, it will not shock any of our listeners because that happens a lot on this show. But we'll try to stay focused on Schneider. All right. Interesting fact about me is that I am number six of seven kids. So I have five older siblings and a younger sister. And we've been in Boston pretty much my whole life. We immigrated here from Cambodia, escaping the Cambodian genocide in the early 80s. If you ask anyone, I'm as American as apple pie. Then there's this other half of me that

is defined truly by what my family has gone through to escape that war, to pursue happiness and freedom here. And then when I think about the path that has led me along the way to where I sit today, it's quite remarkable given all of the adversity that we had to overcome. But along the way, I also realized I was in a very unique position in my family being number six because I grew up here. But I had five older siblings, three in which are older brothers. One's a police officer, so I had no boyfriends growing up. You know, it really did allow me to look at the world quite differently from my siblings, but use that different perspective to help them because they were much more impacted by what they've been through. They remember everything from the concentration camps. They remember being separated as kids from my parents.

And I actually was profoundly born on a refugee camp on the way here from Thailand. So all of that, you know, the cumulative effect of all of that really did shape who I became today in terms of a profession, being that rational, logical person, knowing that it isn't always about short-term gratification, as we talked about in football. It's about the longer-term play and making sure people understand the implications of that because I grew up with two cultures. Fun fact, right? Being in a big family, but being kind of almost the baby, but the matriarch. It's a blessing, but it's also been quite the journey as well.

Not all decisions are easy to make. Yeah, we've done lots of episodes. And I don't think we've ever had a sixth born or a sixth of seven. And certainly not one that's family. So I want to make sure I get this right. Your parents left Cambodia with five kids. Escaped Cambodia with five kids and your mom pregnant. Yes.

Just that right there takes, I mean, certainly escaping Cambodia and the war there and the genocide there. I mean, that was brave. But doing it with five kids and mom pregnant. And you were born in Taiwan on the way. Thailand. The U.S.? Thailand. Okay.

Thailand on the way here. Holy moly. How wild is that? It's quite wild. And it's sad because I don't have a lot of history to share beyond some of those facts because it uncovers a lot of pain for my older siblings. So there's an age gap of almost 15 years between the eldest to my younger sister. Growing up, I wanted to learn more and hear more. It was never voluntary. And I was always

afraid to ask because there was a lot of pain behind those memories. But then the moment I'd ask questions, it would trigger those experiences and, you know, us having a Chinese Korean last name, Kim, you know, we were very much targeted by by those who were from the communist regime. So unfortunately, on my father's side, there was a lot of loss a lot. So he he had to make the decision to do I stay and risk my entire family, but take care of all of my nieces and nephews because my brothers and sisters were killed? Or do I try to at least save my children? Because if we stay, there is a lower chance of survival.

And they managed to escape walking from the capital city of Cambodia all the way to Thailand to where I was eventually born. Brave man for sure. I miss him every day. That will set the tone for your family, a bold, brave move like that for sure. Yes. Did all of you settle in Boston and are still in the area today? Pretty much throughout the New England region.

We do have one semi-Yankee fan. We kind of keep her out in Connecticut for that matter. Try not to talk about her. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But for the most part, all of us are in Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut. We stayed pretty close. Every family has one. Every family has one, Panay, right? Yes. Can't explain it.

And then we also tried it because we only have my mom, Crouching Tiger, left. It's hard to leave her because she is 81 years old. And even at 81, her nickname is Crouching Tiger, left, it's hard to leave her because she is 81 years old. And even at 81, her nickname is Crouching Tiger because she's still really me. I was going to say, I bet she is a force to be reckoned with. She's 4'9". She looks like a sweet old thing. But like on Thanksgiving, she told me that my shirt was really nice because it hides my belly. So. Thanks, mom. Thanks, mom. And that's a little bit about me and the kids. My 11 year

old, my husband is about six, two. So my 11 year old took more of his height genes and is currently my size at five, two. Well, my youngest is 23 now, so it goes fast. So I would just enjoy all of it. Yeah. All of the weird stuff, all the crazy stuff, all the frustrations. It goes by quickly. I don't remember who told me this, but they said, Raymond, the days crawl by as a parent, but the years fly by. Yes.

And I think that's absolutely true. It is. Going back to the work front, this is where it becomes, you know, and for any of the women that's listening to this podcast, this is where like the work-life balance is such a struggle because, you know, I had sidestepped my career to focus on being a mother because the further I had advanced professionally, the less I was present for my own family. And I made a choice. And, you know, this is, you know, one of the things that

aside from data centers or any industry, you know, the entire world, as much as they empowered us to embrace being at the table, they didn't necessarily change the environment where we could be successfully. Be the person we wanted to be at home as a daughter, mother, wife, as well as aspire to be what we've always been empowered to be you know, the professional, the person who has a seat at the table, the person who was invited to the party. It's always great, but I never had the time to dance. So I took a little bit of a sidestep and here I am. And it's been a struggle over the past two months of trying to come up to speed with everything. But I've learned along the way how to say no and really prioritize.

Panay, as we think about the next time we're going to have you on, we've got to get Crouching Tiger on. No, she's going to say something about you and make you cry in the first five minutes. No, no, it's all right. We're just going to give her the mic and just let her have the whole conversation. Do you know Bill Klayman? I do not. So he's a data center guy, and his mom was a sniper in the ukrainian army and i'm like bill why are we talking to you just get your mom on the phone but we want to talk to

her there's a thing she will fool you she'll show you the greatest things to you and then you turn around and next thing you know there's like a bamboo chopstick flying straight dead center for your forehead. Yeah. I don't want that. All four nine of her. All four nine. All right. You brought up a seat at the table.

Let's talk about your new seat at the table. Yes. Chief Strategy Officer already, but then you decided, hey, that's not enough. How are we doing in IT? And decided to be Chief Information Officer as well. So talk about that. Talk about how that came up. Talk about what you're doing. For those of you who don't know, at ETAP, a subsidiary of

Schneider, talk about what you're doing in both roles. Sure. So just to clarify, I did not aggressively pursue having two jobs. So, okay, sir, chief strategy Officer at ETAP. So ETAP is a hardware agnostic software company. We were acquired by Schneider about three years ago, and it's really focused on a lot of your electrical systems, your power systems. How do you design, simulate it, regardless of the industry that you're in? How do you operate it?

Keeping in mind some of your energy targets, energy monitoring, all the way down to your maintenance cycle. As you make changes, how does it impact your energy and what does it do in terms of overall consumption? Are you fully optimized? A slew of things, but the best part, very similar hardware agnostic software platform, but very much focused on the process side of things, not electricity, but process optimization, design control simulation. So that's the company.

And when I looked at the business, which like most large organizations, you go through acquisitions, and there were a multitude of organizations that really needed to be unified. So as I looked at operational excellence, I asked the question, how are we going to digitally enable this and ensure that we are not digitizing processes that may not work in an optimal fashion with this new unified group? So what are we doing there? How do we ensure that we enable the

business through IT, workflow automation, all of the fun things when you hear about digital transformation, so that we achieve the business outcomes that I am looking at from the strategy standpoint. And then it was, congratulations, this is now yours. Thank you for bringing this up. And we've got good news for you. Yeah. I was like, oh, okay. That's a great challenge. Meanwhile, I was sweating. I'm pretty sure my armpits were stinging. I was like, okay, now I have like two rolls. But you know what? It actually makes sense.

When you can align IT along with your business and ensure that both are headed in at least the same direction, it may not be in lockstep, but as long as you're at least marching towards that same order and you know what your end game is, it just makes for a much more synchronized, more orchestrated, more well-aligned business. The change is fairly recent, right? Yes, yes. It was announced November 11th, I believe. So just a couple of weeks ago.

So I've been drinking from a fire hose lately. So the work-life balance hasn't quite been there. Right now is the time to just be a sponge and at the same time, try to operate and execute. All right. So Pani, help us a little bit. So you gave the really good elevator pitch of what ETAP does. Can you take us one step further? And I liked you said hardware agnostic because you guys were not part of Schneider before. So you were attached to all sorts of power systems. Yes, and we still are. I was going to say, that's the why behind the hardware agnostic, right? You'll hook up to anybody's gear. But can you take us one step deeper into what you're doing when you're monitoring all these systems?

Of course. And I did want to say we were always considered part of Schneider, right? So we are a Schneider company. We are a Schneider, right? So we are a Schneider company, we are a Schneider brand, but because of the agnostic nature, there was a reason why Schneider left us and other software companies like Aviva alone. Because it was so important to the industry, why break that? There's so much value in being able to connect a variety of different hardware into your data center, into your critical control system. If you look at it, just like your card, there is no one vendor who's doing things end to end. You may have the option to do that, right? But at the same time, it was truly important to maintain that integrity of

being hardware agnostic. Now, in this particular case, for data centers specifically, on the design and simulation side, depending on how you engineer and also what your preferences are for what the design should be, each type of hardware, whether it's switchgear, whether it's UPS, all of that, the PDUs, as they start to get connected, as you're designing for that, you want to simulate how they're going to operate, right? Whether it's in a steady state fashion or if you're making dynamic changes you want to be able to have a digital twin of that so you can determine the impact look at your power consumption

is it within the grid code compliance that's that's in your particular region or country or municipality so it takes into account all of these different scenarios, right? And they have a library of like over 140 different models to consider, but it'll take all of those scenarios and try to adjust them real time for you, depending on the software that you acquire from the portfolio to determine, is this how you want to operate? Is this within the parameters that you set? And then once you're live and running, now you're in the operate stage, there's a whole other set of capabilities where it'll help you look at, are you consuming energy as you designed it and based off of the scenarios that you originally built? And if not, why? So

there's all sorts of analytical capabilities, arc flash studies, a number of things related to your electrical network and even network optimization to help you meet the targets that you set for your particular operation. And then along the way, things happen, right? Switch gear goes, the UPS has to be changed out, your cooling system, that whole system is replaced. How do you ensure that all of that information is managed and captured somewhere? So within the libraries, as well as the digital twin, you effectively have a constant real-time image of your electrical system, so that if you do send a field service engineer and they are now more aware of what the system actually is versus assuming it was what was designed 10 years ago, it keeps them safe too. So there's a strong degree of safety when you think about having that digital version, that mirror, that digital mirror image of your electrical system, not just for, yes, it's important to be sustainable and it is important to ensure that you are fully optimized, but it's also the number one priority to keep your people

safe, right? And you can't be safe if you don't know what's in your system and having some sort of electrical digital twin would at least enable that. Yeah. Where you can look and see what it is on a screen instead of when you're standing in a power center. Right. And then an example. Yeah. And then just like a Google map, you go and if you make a change, if you have, if there's this capability called NetPM, you go and make a change on your digital twin because you're like, all right, I switched out this particular piece or this component or this PDU. And anybody who has access to the same app, you know, it becomes that centralized platform

for everybody to have the same version of the truth. So there's no surprises, which to me, that's quite powerful. Especially, I get spooked by electricity. I can't. I mean, switching a light bulb is one thing. Dealing with power at that level, given the size of data centers today, definitely critical. Keep your people safe, be sustainable, and optimize your operations. Safety way up on the list. If we were smart at the production of Not Your Father's Data Center, we'd work in Google Maps and Waze and things like that in the show commercials. We're just not that sharp yet. We're going to have to think about how to do that. And this next segment brought to you by Waze. We'll get there.

All in time. All right. So we're certainly talking about the operational mode of the business. I'm going to sound like the dumb sales guy that I am. When I hear you describe what ETAP does from a design perspective on the front end, it sounds almost like, and smart people laugh at me when I say this, it sounds almost like CFD modeling for thermodynamics that goes on in the data center. We try to model what happens if you change this, if you increase the CFM, if you increase the set point, if you lower this, right? We try to model what we believe will happen. That sounds to me like what you're doing, but on the electrical side. And I know I'm on the front end, I'm not in operational mode, but is that directionally right, what you're describing? Very much so. It's very much that.

How do you take all of these different variables and all of these potential scenarios while also being compliant and determine what does my operation look like before you actually get to the build stage? So it's always good to know, and even based off of your constraints, you have all of these different variables and constants that you enter into the system to determine, am I fully optimized? Can I load shed somewhere? Can I increase somewhere else? It's all about designing first and then simulating what that design could be in operating mode before you actually build. Because you know, once you start building, and Compass being ahouse, when it comes to data center builds, once it's going, it's going. And then once you start getting those change orders, and that's when things start to, you know, your speed to deployment is now impacted. You know, you've got changes, not just for that one piece, but the impact to supply chain, and the impact to really your entire ecosystem related to your bill. So designing first, engineering first,

then simulating that design is so crucial. And to be able to do that on the electrical side, because energy, we think about how much power data centers are consuming. Yes, we consume a lot. And everybody likes to harp on like, oh, you know, all these data centers are taking up all of our energy. We don't take up all that much, right? We do take a lot.

But how do we do that in a more, I would say, responsible manner, knowing that we too need to play a role in our sustainability and decarbonization? Yeah. Pana, you bring up that there is a knock on our industry of, hey, you guys consume a lot of power. And the reality is in certain locations, we do. Where the big buildings are, we're taking up a lot of power, but I always enjoy asking folks, hey, if you'll just tell me what you want to stop doing on here, we'll stop supporting it. transformation that continues to go on in so many parts of our world. So yes, the data center industry is where the bill lands, but it's really the support of all the things that folks get to do on these smart devices everywhere. We're just the aggregation point.

And this is where education and evangelization of what does a data center enable the everyday person to do, that's where I think there's also an opportunity just for the industry alone. There's a lot of buzzwords. I was waiting for the term paradigm shift to come back and emerge, right? But now it's AI, it's generative AI, it's digital twins. But ultimately to the everyday person,

they're not making that connection. So I think it's a great opportunity to say, yes, you see data centers and yes, you may think that we're consuming all of your energy, but the benefit is in your hand. Yeah. You're holding it. You're holding it. It's in your pocket. You literally have a digital twin of the entire world on this thing. And importantly, it has third-party data and insights. So similar for the electrical system, I can now look at the digital twin version. So in Maps, the map is one thing.

It's knowing the traffic, other routes. Was there an accident? Yeah. Why is there traffic? I want to see the icon. Because we are human and we want to know, but all of those additional elements, that's pretty much what ETAP can do. You know, you have your electrical design, which is really just a digital map, but it's all the other insights, right? Pulling from different types of hardware, the conditions of that hardware to pretty much show you like, here's what's happening. And if you make an an adjustment here is the possible output right so that's the modeling and the simulation piece so that part's super cool but to the point back of you know people not making that connection i think as an industry we get it but to crouching

tiger probably not yeah whenever i go home for the holidays i've always get a kick out of the you know whether it's the the next boyfriend who's come with one of my nieces or nephews or whatever. And they, what do you do for a living? I just make it easy. I'm in commercial real estate. But no, you have to eventually, you know, what do you mean? Oh, or data system. Well, what next layer, the next layer, the next layer. And eventually you have to try to explain to people what happens in our buildings. And that's always a fun conversation. Wait a minute. You mean when I order an Amazon package, that order goes through a building somewhere? Yes, it does. There's a server somewhere in a building being energized and being cooled and being housed. And it's where your, your order went when you hit that button. And then that sent an order to a warehouse and then that put something on truck and uh it's it's always fun to talk through all right you used a phrase that i'm gonna admit that i've not heard until we talked today i've not heard the phrase digital twin

kind of the background of that i i think i can infer what it is but i'd love to hear a little bit because it sounds like it's part of etaps you know story that you tell when you when you explain to folks what what you're doing for them. Will you take two or three minutes and get a little deeper into what you mean by digital twin? Of course. So I actually just did a webinar with MIT last week because they had a huge focus on digital twin because the term is starting to become so pervasive. Right. And I make fun of it.

Like paradigm shift is just another buzzword? But in reality for ETAP, think it's an intelligent model. It's a mirror, the digital mirror of what's truly happening, whether it's in this case, a map, in ETAP's case, your electrical system. But before you even design the map, you want to make sure that your routes or roads are optimized. And in the same way of an electrical system, that it's fully designed to not only meet your performance targets, but also helps you achieve other targets you may have in mind for sustainability or the constraints that you have. Because like I said, not every country is so willing to give you all the power you need to operate your data center. So how do we get the most out of the energy that we're allowed to take, to have that end-to-end continuity of data so that everyone is essentially on the same page.

It's your single version of the truth. But there are a number of assumptions behind it that everyone's connected to it. Everybody has access to it. And like most software companies, it all depends on what you choose to have access to. But the whole idea is, as you're designing, as you're simulating, know that you are already in the process of creating a digital twin, your digital mirror of your actual system. And as you adjust along the way, anybody who's connected to it through that digital twin, that digital mirror, will also be informed. This way you can operate more confidently and also operate with

full safety along the entire value chain. So I've got sensors on all this electrical equipment and that's what's feeding back to my twin and giving me, because I start with a design, there's nothing deployed yet. I start with a design, then I deploy it, then I operate it. And it's that operational stage. I'm getting real world data back from all of these devices. And that's what's informing my digital twin. Is that essentially what we're saying? Essentially, whether it's through sensors or even just not everything has a sensor. But as changes are made and it's updated in the system or in the platform, those changes are then modeled into the rest of the fuller system so that you understand the impact.

Because with IoT, yes, everybody wanted everything connected, but sometimes not everything needs to have that sensor. I don't need to know when the last time my toilet flushed. There are just some things that just doesn't make sense. But in terms of the number of things that we can connect, it's great when it gives you data, but data doesn't matter without contextualization. And this is where domain expertise becomes crucial with software. And because ETAP, we are the de facto for energy or electrical systems, or at least the design, the simulation, the modeling within all of the US nuclear power plants. We are the trusted software provider for them, for the entire industry. So that goes to

show we have the expertise there. So when we consider those scenarios where certain types of components may not have a sensor, we know enough about electricity. I mean, we have PhDs all over the world pretty much designing the software, contributing to the design of the software that help us with, I would say, the intelligent models that come out it's pretty cool in the sense that you can have that single version of the truth and it's even cooler that you can now have it on your phone like yeah electrical system of power management on your phone it's you would have never thought this 10 15 years ago when we were all on map quest hoping not to miss that turn because that's all i had for directions right Right now, we are, we are dating ourselves. So, so your kids are a little younger

than mine, but I will tell you a funny story. So my children, as they began to lobby for getting cell phones, which yours are probably really your 11 year olds probably already asked. Jasper, Jasper watch. Yeah. Okay. There you go. Yeah. And so my children, of course, asked me as they got to be in between years, 10, 11, 12. Well, dad, at what age did you get a cell phone? And I told them I got it when I was 22 and they were like, 22. What did your, what were your parents doing? And I'm like, guys, there were no cell phones before I was 22. They just couldn't comprehend it. They're like, what? And then when I told him my cell phone came with a shoulder strap and it weighed six pounds, they're like, dad, you're just making things up. Like, no, let me Google this for you, child.

That's exactly right. That's just like when Ellie asked me, she said, mommy, were you alive when there are these things called phone books? Were you alive? Thanks, honey. I felt 100 that day. Yeah, yeah. So I make my kids watch old movies, especially when they were younger. And I remember when my son were watching. I don't remember what the movie was.

And he asked me, he said, Daddy, what is that curly thing coming out of the bottom of the phone? And I said, honey, what? He goes, Dad, look, that guy, there's something stuck to the bottom of his phone. Dad, what is that curly thing coming out of the bottom of the phone? And I said, honey, what? He goes, dad, look, that guy, there's something stuck to the bottom of his phone. Dad, what is that? He'd never seen a phone in his life that it had a cord. He just didn't know what, I said, well, honey, that was the cord. He's like, dad, why did it have a cord?

Okay. You know how like they hit you with that basic fundamental question. Yeah. The technology we had back then and you just get so stumped. Honey, we thought we were killing it when we had the cord that was long enough that we could take the phone into our room. You were so around. Which you could walk. You could get up and walk around.

The cord was long enough and you could close the door so your parents couldn't hear. That was something. Yeah. So they could pick up the phone from the other room and listen to the other. Yeah. Listening. Yeah. Yeah.

That never happened. Ever. It's just it's just crazy how far we've come. Pick up the phone from the other room and listen. To the other, yeah, listening. Yeah, yeah. That never happened to us, ever. It's just crazy how far we've come. And I know I throw out MapQuest just because in that webinar, I did talk about really the analogy of mobility and how so much is now within the palm of our hands to an electrical system, right? Just to be able to articulate it in a way that was just simplified, right? I have the experts.

I'm not a technical expert within ETAP, but we have all those experts that can walk you through steady state to dynamic simulations, one line simulation. of having an intelligent model that's pretty much a digital mirror of your system can just really ensure not only, again, from an operational standpoint, the optimization, the excellence, the ability to operate with confidence, right? It's a safety piece too, because now you're much more aware and your awareness is within fingertips reach. And I think to me, that's pretty powerful for any industry. For sure. And then I also say MapQuest because one of my worst memories was printing it out,

trying to get from Boston to Times Square and we missed the exit. And I didn't know what to do. I remember being like, we need to turn back around and see if we can not miss the exit. This paper doesn't go further. Yeah, that's all I got.

I'm like, oh, my goodness. But it was a fascinating time. And look at how far we've come. Now we have Google. We have Waze. We have Google Maps. We have Apple Maps. It's all pretty amazing.

Yeah. All right, Pane. We've got to convince Schneider to have you back because I got at least two more episodes. We need an all Crouching Tiger episode where we just give her the mic and we just let her talk. It would be epic for her to talk about her journey and life. It would just be awesome. And then we've got to have an episode about nuclear power because I am convinced that as our world continues to industrialize, continues to grow, continues to prosper. The thing that pulls people and nations out of poverty is industrialization, electrification. We need

more electricity. And I think the only clean answer for that is nuclear. I may upset some people with that, but I think it's the only way we're going to get the volumes of power we need without destroying our planet. And we got to get comfortable with that. And the sooner we can do that, it's something that's worth talking about. Absolutely. I think it's a fascinating topic because you cannot help as humans be somewhat conservative because when you associate to nuclear, when you think of nuclear, the association is, yes, it can give you some great upside and great benefit, including supporting our journey to electrification, but then if

mishandled or without the proper safety controls, right. Or without whatever the scenario may be, that's what triggers the, I don't know if we're ready for that in mass volume to the magnitude that we need. And, and there's like, there's a humanity piece in there too, which, which is always fascinating. And a part that I think a lot, a lot of industries tend to, when we have these types of conversations, not everybody puts in, well, what's this do to society? How do people feel? Right. And I would love to incorporate that in, in, in our next discussion.

Episodes coming Schneider electric marketing. Come on guys. We got, we got more to talk about. Featuring Crouching Tiger, all four, nine of her and her daughter, Jabba the Hutt. I can see the promo videos now. I'm just going to ponder to you. If you want to do a pre-interview and tell me how you survive,

I just, yeah. Crouching Tiger, coming to a podcast near you. Pane, thank you for joining us. Congratulations on your new role. And also my condolences on the new role. It's a lot. We're going to do great things and this company is going to do great things. And I so appreciate the opportunity to be a part of this. So thanks again, Ray. We look forward to having you again. Thank you.