Not Your Father’s Data Center - Sustainability 101

Episode Date: January 31, 2023

Born, raised, and educated in Germany, Carsten Baumann, Solution Architect and Director of Strategic Initiatives at Schneider Electric, calls the United States his home these days. Baumann’s travels took many different routes, from a town outside of Frankfurt to the glitz of Los Angeles and now a quiet, more rural ZIP code in Colorado. But one constant remained: engineering. Baumann spoke with Raymond Hawkins about his journey and career in systems engineering.   Schneider Electric does some exciting work with Compass Datacenters utilizing microgrids, something Baumann knows inside and out. As recent as five years ago, Baumann said many people in the data center world had no idea what microgrids were. A lot’s changed since then. “The definition of a microgrid has evolved, but as we understand it now, it’s something where we have a combination of distributed energy resources, like local energy generation assets we can use in case a grid goes down,” Baumann said.   Baumann said microgrids solve three critical issues in the data center world. “One is greater resiliency, which we all want in a data center. Number two, which is a huge factor as well and becoming more and more prevalent and important, is sustainability,” Baumann said. “And the third one is overall, of course, cost and cost benefits. Ideally, we want to have everything. We want to be more sustainable; we have greater resiliency, and it ought to be cheaper.”   Today, the education around microgrids is growing, and Baumann said potential data center customers want specifics around how microgrids can help them and the best approach they should take. “I believe site selection for data centers will expand the criteria to meet sustainability aspects,” he said. “Being able to do onsite power generation when the electricity is expensive, we may be able to produce it cheaper ourselves and more sustainable, so the carbon intensity of our own electricity is less than the carbon intensity of the electricity we buy from the utility company.”

It's... Welcome again to another edition of Not Your Father's Data Center. I am Raymond Hawkins, your host here in Dallas, Texas, Chief Revenue Officer for Compass. Today we are joined by our friends at Schneider Electric, specifically Karsten Baumann, Solution Architect and Director of Strategic Initiatives out of the lovely Larkspur, Colorado. What a beautiful part of the world. Karsten, how are you, sir? I'm doing rather well today. Thank you so much. It's great to be here.

What a great place to get to live in the foothills of the mountains and getting to hike right out your back door. That's kind of got to be hard to beat. It is. And, you know, after having lived in Los Angeles, you know, for 19 years, it is definitely back to my roots, you know, where I came from in Germany. So my parents still live in the boonies outside of Frankfurt. And when I was a kid, I really didn't like it because my cousins, they were living in Frankfurt and there were sirens and traffic lights and McDonald's and everything, right? So that was like excitement, you know, and I lived in the middle of nowhere.

And here I am 50 years later, you know, so I'm back in the boonies. But now in this time it's in Colorado, so I'm really, really enjoying it. All full circle. Well, I'll tell you, you know, I have a lovely concrete jungle outside my window here in downtown Dallas. There are prettier cities in the world, I'll just say that, but grateful to be here working, but it is not the prettiest place in the world. So, Carson, you alluded a little bit to early days and growing up. I love the fact that you call it the boonies even in Germany. So tell us a little bit about growing up in the boonies and

how you end up from Germany to get all the way through Los Angeles in the United States and now in Colorado. So tell us a little bit about your story, if you're willing. Yeah, absolutely. So I was born, raised, and educated in Germany, as I mentioned, just outside of Frankfurt, a little tiny town. And ultimately, I graduated as an electrical engineer in a city near Frankfurt as well called Gießen. And so then I went to military. So I served in the German military army at that time. It was mandatory service. And then after that, you know, so it was because of my parents' business. So they knew somebody and they asked,

hey, you know, my son, you know, he needs kind of a job, you know. And this was an American company. It was Bell and Howell back then. And I think they still exist. Like in helicopters, I think. Yeah, electronics as well. Oh, electronics, yeah. So anyhow, so he was saying, you know, I asked, but we don't have anything. But I asked our neighbors, you know, if they have something and and and they are very interested and this was JVC

professional and JVC the Japanese Victor company so they have the consumer side back then and they also have the professional side so where they sold you know I can manufacture a professional video equipment you know cameras and tape recorders back then in the analog world. And so that's where I started working after, you know, I graduated and after my military service. And so from engineering, I worked into, you know, system engineering, system sales, you know, and then all of a sudden I moved more and more into sales and I started collaborating with multiple international companies because they did system designs, you know, for large broadcast stations, you know,

like what we in the United States, you know, like the Fox, the ABCs, the NBCs. So I did this back in Europe. And then so I started working with some international companies in order to provide technology to these customers to provide a complete solution. And so I got exposed to different companies. And long story short, at some point, you know, I left JVC and I joined a Canadian company. And so they were headquartered in Toronto. They have been acquired by Harris now, and they've changed a few names. And so I moved to the United States, sorry, to the United Kingdom near London in 95 and 96. And after that, I

actually moved back to Germany, but then I moved to Munich. I was there for about four years. And then the same company, they said like, look, we need to reorganize and restructure some of our sales and marketing efforts in Northern America. And we would like you to do that. And so I remember I was sitting, I was playing around a squash, similar to racquetball with one of my Canadian colleagues over lunch. And I come back and this was the time when everything was very formal, you know, so we had the mahogany hall over there. And so the receptionist in the entrance of the building said, hey, Carson, our CEO wants to see you. And I'm like, OK. I wondered, what is this about?

So anyhow, so I go there. And then he is in the office. And then our executive vice president of sales and marketing, his name was Gary. It doesn't matter. And so the CEO was asking, so, Carson, how would you like working in the United States? And I was surprised, you know, because I didn't know what this was all about. I looked out of the window, and I was thinking. And all of a sudden, it's ironic, he started, the COO started counting down from 10.

10, 9, 8, 7. And I thought, I can't let him count down to zero and not have an answer. So around 4 or 5, I turned around and said, if the offer is right and the conditions are right, I'm in. Not knowing what it's all about and so forth. So that was the end of the conversation with him. And he said, like, to the guy, Gary, the executive vice president, make it happen. Make it work. So we worked it out and then in 1999 in april i moved from munich to los angeles and i knew nobody over there and got a little apartment you know um a company back then we

had companies called company cars what was the company this was not jv. What was the company? This was not JVC. What was the company name that you moved with? Yeah, the company was called Leach, Leach Technology, L-E-I-T-C-H. So they don't exist anymore, and the names have changed. They've sold their business to Harris. What did Leach do? Broadcast video. Okay. Broadcast video and telecommunications.

So back to the network stuff that you're referring to. Okay, gotcha. Yeah, same time. Well, L.A. is probably not a bad place to be in that business. Yeah, and I remember because, you know, here I grew up in Germany, and actually I still have a convertible back in Germany, right? So, however, the weather is not always all that good. So, and I remember, you know, we had this policy,

you cannot have a convertible as a company car. And I said like, well, but wait a minute, you know, I'm moving to Los Angeles, the weather is always beautiful, the coast and everything or Hollywood, you know, I need a convertible. So I said like, look, if you want me to go there, you have to find an exception so that I get a convertible as a company car. So I guess I was the only guy who got a convertible as a company car. There you go. Rocking the boat. Okay. That's right. And then I started realizing, because I remember, you know, before I moved to the United States, you know, all these convertibles, they have air conditions here in the United States. And I didn't understand why would you need an air condition when you're in,

you know, when you have a convertible? very soon learned living in los angeles sometimes it's so warm and the sun is so brutal you don't want to put the top down so you better have the top up and you turn the air condition on so i got the whole flavor about you know the the differences between how what kind of functions and functionality you would have in a car in the United States versus in Europe. Yeah, that's funny. I bought my second car. We were living in Seattle, and I could not believe that people would sell cars without air conditioners because I was from the deep south. That was a shock to me.

I was like, what do you mean you don't have an air conditioner? The guy was like, yeah, we don't put air conditioners in our cars. I'm like, are you nuts? I live in south Georgia. Are you crazy? I know. We need it 364 days a year. That's exactly right. Exactly right.

You get to LA. Leetech? Is that how I say it? Leech Technology. They're in the broadcast business. They move you. They finally get you a convertible. How do you get from there to Schneider Electric? How in the world do you get from broadcasting to the data center business?

Yeah, so then after that, so normally I was supposed to be there only for two years. I was there as an expat, a special work visa or whatever, and I was supposed to go back, but then we made some acquisitions in some technology companies, was more in the telecommunications side of the business, and they asked me to actually lead the integration of that technology, you know, into our portfolio. And as a result, you know, so now this became a permanent position and the company sponsored my green card, you know, and then I met my now wife and, you know, so she was born and raised in California. So I'm still here. But ultimately, you know, in 2003, so I left the company, Leach Technology, and I joined a Belgian company called Barco.

It's a Belgian-American radio corporation. And this was all about visualization technology, like displays, projectors, LED boards, and all these kind of things. So, but, you know, my entire background was always around technology. And so after that, I had actually a very quick stint with a company called WET, Water Entertainment Technology, based in Los Angeles. And so they're probably best known for being the creators and founders of the fountains of the Bellagio in Las Vegas. So that's the founders of the creators and um yeah of the fountains of the bellagio in las vegas so that's the kind of company and um but then because you know it was 2008 and

then the downturn happened you know and um so i was out of a job and but at that time i um worked with somebody who worked then later on for a small IT consulting company in the data center space. And so that's when I joined them. And because of that connection, I started to learn more about Schneider Electric and met several people. And they started to realize, you know what, we need somebody at Schneider Electric in Southern California who can help calling on the consulting and engineering community, helping them to create more energy efficient data center solutions and promote obviously the Schneider portfolio.

And I started talking to Schneider Electric and I left that small consulting firm and I joined Schneider Electric, which was 10 or 11, yeah, 10 plus years ago. So that's how the whole transition from, you know, growing up in the boonies in frankfurt or near frankfurt you know to going to near london back to munich los angeles you know and all of a sudden i joined schneider electric so yeah i joined schneider 10 plus years ago in los angeles and um now three years ago my wife actually also like five years ago, my wife, actually, it was like five years ago, my wife knew that I wouldn't really want to leave Los Angeles because it's a nice place, you know, and a nice home built over there.

And she knew that the only time I would want to leave, actually, is if I were to go back to Europe. And we thought about going to England, you know, make it easier for her from a language perspective, but never really worked out. But anyhow, so she came back one time visiting some family here in Colorado, and she came back and said, hey, Carson, you know, somehow I got this inspiration, and how do you feel about us moving to Colorado? And I said, you know what? I'm in. It's a little closer to Europe. Not a lot, but a little closer. Not a lot, but, yeah, a little bit closer. But, yeah, for whatever reason i mean

los angeles is great you know but there's so many challenges you know like i mean you know everybody says wherever they live that their traffic is bad i mean i lived in los angeles for 19 years and i know and i've been driven in many other countries and around the world you know and yes there's lots of traffic los angeles is a nightmare yeah yeah no question because in los angeles nothing is about how far is it away it's about when do you want to be there you know it is do you leave on a monday morning and i only live like 20 miles away from the airport but sometimes it took me like two hours to get to the airport so it's just like really really tough you know so yeah i i was open to the idea so hence we looked for land and we bought a piece of land with a beautiful view and uh we started

building a house and here we are how long have y'all been in colorado just a little over three years right now so we moved in i think in may of 2019 just before the pandemic you know which is also interesting because we built a home um My wife, she has her own business. And so we built our house and we have two offices in our home. So that's how we created it when we designed it with the architect. And her office is on the other side of the house. So we don't really interact with each other other than we're coming together in the kitchen. And we have on our office doors, like right now, for example,

we have these like what you normally would find in a hotel, where you have these do not disturb signs on the outside. So my door is closed right now and the sign is there, do not disturb. She does the same thing, you know, because we all work from home. But it was fortunate because, you know, we set ourselves up for working from home in a kind of whatever, semi-professional way. And then when the pandemic hit, nothing really changed for us. You know, I, we had our offices, the infrastructure, everything, you know, the only thing we didn't do was traveling. So in that regard, we feel like very fortunate not, you know,

working from the kitchen table and the kids running around and everything, and, you know, it's tough, tough situations for many people, many families. So in that regard, it worked out for us. And then, of course, living here in Colorado, where you mentioned earlier, where we can go simply hiking and everything was shut down. And we're like, OK, well, let's go more hiking. And what a beautiful place to be outside, you know, at the end of the workday. What a great place. So I'll tell you, my main connection

to Colorado, so down here in Dallas, Texas, right, you know, we're in the midst of today's the 59th day with no rain. I think we're, you know, already up to 42 or 43 100 degree days for the summer. And it's just, you know, gets to the point that it's unbearable. We got another month of 100 degree weather. And so lots of Texans, lots of folks from Dallas go to Colorado for a week or two. Some of my friends go up there for a month because the weather is so much more mild in the summertime. So love it up there. I've gone several summers in a row now. I go to Estes Park.

So not terribly near you, but your direction, that's for sure. And I love it up there in the summer. You get up there at 8,000 feet, and it's just a totally different environment than it is down here. I mean, yeah, we're living 6,700 feet. It's our elevation here where I live, right? So, yeah, it's a little bit cooler, and it's like 10 degrees cooler than Denver, but yeah. Well, thank you for giving us a little bit of how you got to the U.S., how you got into the data center business here Here at Compass, we love Schneider.

You guys are an incredible partner for us. Let's transition, if you're willing, a little bit to talk about some of the stuff that we do together, our two organizations. If you're willing, let's talk about microgrids first. For us, the idea of power generation on site, being able to put power back on the grid, being able to have reliable power with the grid goes down, that whole concept. Would you just take a few minutes? I'm with 100% certainty know you understand it better than I do. So will you talk a little bit about microgrids? Yeah, this is a very interesting question. And I remember five years ago, four years plus,

four plus years ago, I was moderating a panel at an AFCOM conference in Los Angeles, and it was about microgrids. And this is the data center folks sitting in there. And so we're talking about microgrids. And I would say at that point, probably 99 plus percent of all the people in the audience had no idea what we're talking about. What is a microgrid? And and you just mentioned it you know the ability to generate power on site you know and then um you know work in conjunction with the grid you know so the definition of a microgrid has all evolved but as we understand it now you know so it's like something where we have a combination of distributed energy resources like local energy generation assets we can we can use in case when the grid goes down, which one could say like, well, wait a minute,

then every data center with a diesel backup generator is a microgrid, you know, because power goes out and we fire up the generator and then we do it ourselves, which is true. But the extended definition of a microgrid is also that you can work in conjunction with, in parallel with the utility grid. So now that's different to how most of the data centers operating today because in the data center space, we are simply an off-taker of utility. So whatever capacity and quality and price associated to that electricity is, we take it from utility company. And then we build our own

resiliency strategy, typically with diesel backup generators, just in case something does happen to the utility power so we can maintain our operations. But now, because there's many aspects where we look at sustainability and I think microgrids really solve for three different components. One is greater resiliency, which we all want in a data center. We want to have more reliability, resiliency. That's number one. Number two, which is a huge factor as well right now and becoming more and more prevalent and important, is sustainability.

So we want to operate our business, we want to operate our business in a more sustainable way. And then from a data center perspective, yeah, we're looking at, you know, power purchase agreements to buy green electricity for our consumption. But then we're also considering

about what is the scope one emissions, you know, like these diesel generators on site, you know, is this the right solution moving forward in terms of our sustainability objectives? And they're not only our sustainability objectives, they're frequently mandated by our clients or your customers, right, moving into your data centers, your investors, you know, they're also looking into like, hey, you know, what are you doing to become more sustainable? So sustainability is the second key component in those vectors of a

microgrid. And the third one is overall, of course, cost, you know, and cost benefits. So ideally, you know, it's like this wheel, you know, we want to ideally want to have everything, we want to be more sustainable, we have greater resiliency, and it ought to be cheaper, right? So and sometimes, like everything in engineering, there's always a few trade-offs, you know, and we just recently worked on a feasibility study with you to specifically look at a site in Dallas, you know, in Texas about how can we create greater resiliency, more sustainability, and what are the implications of the cost associated with that. So, that's something, you know, we've just done recently with you guys.

So that's what I look at data centers. So now fast forward to where we are today versus four and a half years or four plus years ago when I had this first panel at an AFCOM conference where the majority of the folks didn't know what a microgrid is. I think the majority of the people now, because of the education that happens over time, people now do know what a microgrid is. The question we are seeing now more and more when we work with clients is about what would a microgrid look like for us and what can it do, you know, because it's specific to sites and fuel sources available specifically.

So I believe that site selection for data centers will be expanding the criteria in order to also meet sustainability aspects. Being able to do on-site power generation when the electricity is expensive, we may be able to produce it cheaper ourselves, more sustainable. So the carbon intensity of our own electricity is less than the carbon intensity of the electricity we buy from the utility company. So I think there's lots of benefits. Now, one of the interesting challenges, so to speak, is like operational. Because many of the data centers, it's about uptime, you know, meeting the service level agreements with your clients. And we have over the last decades,

and all the engineering and design we've done in data centers, we have a, what I would call a static sequence of operation. Hey, utility fails, we detect it, we send a signal to the generator, they start up. In the meantime, the UPS carries us over. And then when the generator's up and running, typically less than 10 seconds, we switch over, you know, and then we have backup power, everything's fine. And then when the utility power comes back online, you know, for a certain period

of time and stable, then we switch back to the utility power, we shut off the generators, and here we go, you know. So this is what I would call a very static sequence of operation. If we now have multiple on-site assets, hopefully sustainable, and now they, because they are sustainable, they can now work in conjunction with the grid, you know, instead of like just having a backup power diesel generator permanent this way, we can now use those assets differently. And so now we have the ability to power them up and emit, let's say, it's combinations of fuel cells and then battery energy storage systems, you know, maybe it's natural gas, you know, or, you know, or fueled by renewable natural gas.

So we have all these different assets. So now we need to look into affordable take. It might also be a component, obviously. Now we need to look at all these assets. What is available for how much? So when I charge, discharge batteries, where do I get the power from? So we need to make these dynamic decisions, which today may look different than tomorrow because energy prices tomorrow might be different, especially like in the ERCOT market.

You have like four coincidental peak charges throughout the year. So at certain times, it's different. So today's operation might be different than yesterday. So that's what I would call a very dynamic sequence of operation. Think about the operator needs to transition from what was clearly designed, tested, validated, commissioned, and we know our standard operating procedures to work in the existing environment. Now we're implementing a dynamic sequence of operation with some artificial intelligence algorithms supporting the decision making. All of a sudden, utility power is available.

And in your electrical yard, you know, the generators start firing up, you know, the fuel cells start humming. And you're like, what's happening? What's going on? You know, and now we're buying only 50% power from the utility company. We're producing 50% ourselves. And so therefore, there's another layer of complexity. There's another layer of risk. And we need to help the data center communities and the operators in this transition process.

Let's start crawling, walking, and then running towards these kind of new capabilities, these new possibilities to meet those three key criteria about sustainability, resiliency, and cost. Great description, Carson. I'm interested to see, you know, you related to that AFCOM conference. Five years ago, no one was microgrids, 99% of the room didn't know what you were talking about. It is talked about today, but I still don't think we're to the point where customers are comfortable with that dynamic environment that you described. I'm constantly deciding, right? Customers like standard mops. They like standard sequence of operations. They like to go, everybody's read it. Everybody agrees. Yes, let's do that. And when it gets off of that checklist or that standard sequence of operations, people get nervous. Hey, who's going to make that value judgment?

How are we going to decide? Who's deciding? When are they deciding? And I think that the dynamic environment sets much better up for the two of the goals, right? I think it sets up much better for sustainability, much better for cost. But the customer's got to get comfortable that, hey, we're weighing these factors and weighing them responsibly. And at the end of the day, we're still going to hang on to the first one. We're still going to hang on to resiliency. We're just going to hang on to it in a more sustainable and more cost-effective method.

And I think getting them comfortable that resiliency isn't going to be degraded is still something we've got to figure out. And look, yeah, I mean, in data centers, hospitals and others, you know, resiliency needs to be equal or better. You know, it can't be like, oh, yeah, it's more green, but it's not as reliable anymore or as resilient, you know, like, yeah, I'm not quite sure, you know, because I'm losing a lot of revenue and reputation, you know, if things go down. So therefore, resiliency is the of the utmost kind of, you know, criteria. So it has to be equal or better, which we can achieve, right? So because when you have multiple assets, multiple fuel sources, you know, like that also becomes, you know, a

criteria for site selection. So, for example, if I want to run, let's say, a combination of some sort of battery energy storage system and natural gas, well, I need to have access to natural gas. Now, it's one thing if I build a one megawatt data center and I can feed, you know, like this from a distribution gas line, but if I have a hundred megawatt data center, now I need to have access to a transmission line, right? So where is this transmission line? If this is five miles away, then this is really not a cost-effective option because now you would need to dig, you know, five miles under streets and whatever to get enough gas to your site.

So, therefore, it will become part of the site selection in the future. And as a result, one location, A, B, and C, their, so to speak, microgrid, you know, solution or alternative may look different, you know. So, what may work financially and from a fuel availabilities perspective in Texas may not work in Santa Clarita, in the Bay Area, in California, or in the Northwest, or New York. Or like some of our large data center customers, they have battery energy storage system and gigantic photovoltaic. Well, you need a lot of land that certainly will not work in an urban environment like

in New York. So therefore, if you have operations, yes, in the desert and in New York, the solution may look different, which then also makes it more challenging because what we like in data center design as time to deploy is critical. We want to standardize it as much as possible. So we don't want to recreate like, okay, it's different everywhere, you know, and all of a sudden the standard operating procedures are different in location A versus location B. So there's a lot of things. However, you know, I think we're at the,

we have this tipping point or this inflection point where we know that the way we've done it in the past is most likely not the way we're going to do it in the future so we just at this point you know like there's a lot of questions you know um we don't have answers to all of them obviously you know we can't solve it ourselves i mean by ourselves so we need it's a larger community. They will need to work together, including the utility companies. And, you know, I'm bringing up an example, not a data center, but it's a mission critical facility in Southern California and in the near San Diego. So the Naval Air Station in Miramar, so they have a large microgrid installation. They have a landfill,

they have multiple, they have photovoltaic, they have gas turbines, they have even including diesel generators, they have different battery technologies. Their objective is they have to be mission ready for 21 days independent of the utility companies. So if things go out, nothing happens, they have to be operational for 21 days. So more than what we typically see as a resiliency strategy in a data center, 24 hours or 48 hours and so forth. So what happened in 2020, so it's a little bit ago, summer, SDG&E, they had to institute blackouts, rolling blackouts, because there was more demand than

they had generation assets available. And although the microgrid wasn't really designed for participating in this, but what they were able to do, they were exporting excess power they were able to generate on-site and supporting the surrounding communities. So therefore, think about further, this is a 3.2 megawatt installation, right? But think about now 50 megawatts, 100 megawatts of a data center capacity where we have, if it's not a diesel generator, we have assets on site we can deploy, and we may not need all the 100 megawatt resiliency we have on site. Maybe we only need 80

for right now. The load's only 80. We could export 20 megawatts into the grid and help the surrounding communities in the grid to stabilize it, avoid blackouts. Think about from a life safety perspective, from a comfort of people. So the data centers are not only becoming these hungry, evil things. They sit somewhere in the neighborhood, but they actually can contribute to the better life quality, I should say, because, hey, life is on, as we say at Schneider Electric, and if there is no electricity, there's not much happening. Garth, you know, it's one of the things I hear my friends in the immersion cooling business talk about.

Hey, we're producing so much of this heat and we can use this heat to heat homes and whatnot. The idea that, hey, we're not just taking power off the grid. We're not just impacting the carbon footprint. We're doing things to support the community and contribute back. And I think that's exactly what you're describing in the Miramar example I love, that these assets can be used to contribute, especially in difficult circumstances, right? Especially when there's stress on the system. All right. Well, if you'll let me transition, I still have two more subjects I'd like to talk with you about. So we've touched a good bit on sustainability as we talk about

microgrids, but I know that that's a passion of yours at the data center level, things about sustainability. But I don't just want to – there, I also want to have time for us to talk about flying airplanes. So we have two more subjects we're going to hit on. So take sustainability for a minute. You know, sustainability, whatever one believes in, you know, whether climate change is related to our humankind pollution of the planet and whatever, or not believe into it, you know, I mean, I'm looking at it simply by looking at the news, you know, and the weather you mentioned, like excessive heat, you know, I'm only on this planet for a little bit over 50 years. But, you know, if I'm looking back, you know, from Europe to where I grew up to here and all the time that happened, you know, it appears to me at least something is changing. You know, whether this is man-made or has some other effects, I'm not the scientist who can actually support either of those kind of claims. But, you know, I personally, I'm passionate about sustainability.

So, for example, when we build our home over here, I mean, I remember, I mean, I have two incandescent light bulbs in my house, you know. And these are the nightstands in our guest room downstairs, which are hardly even used, right? But everything else is just, you know like led lights and energy efficient and i made design decisions uh and implementations decisions about insulation of the house the materials i'm using you know so to be more and more sustainable to have less of an impact on um the uh the environment right so because by the end of the day you know we want to we want to ideally we want to leave uh the planet in a better state than when we found it, you know, when we were born. And and now we're you know, we have these energy days, you know, and we see like how many days a year, you know, until we actually now consuming more, you know, and actually contributing to a further decline of resources. And there's this one quote, I'm butchering this

a little bit right now. But you know, it's basically only when mankind killed the last fish and cut the last tree and poison the last river, we will realize we can't eat money. So there's this, you know, there's this balance between like, look, between like look i mean it yes it has to make financial sense you know but at the same time we can't just do everything on the cost of nature so we have to we have to find the right balance and i think we're also at this inflection point we have to act now in order to kind of like reduce climate warming and so forth so whatever we can do to reduce um you know what to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and other kind of elements, you know, and I think the United Nations, you know, they have the sustainability development goals and there are 17 of them and clean access to water, energy efficiency, you know, green. These are only two of them, you know, but it's like avoiding hunger and social justice, you know, diversity, inclusion. I mean, there's multiple elements. They all relate to sustainability.

It's not just like buying green power from a wind farm or from a solar farm. So there's more to us. And I really subscribe to it, you know, on a personal level. And I'm glad that I have the ability to work at Schneider Electric in a field where what I'm passionate about, you know, they actually pay me money for it. So I actually really like it, you know. And the good thing is that I'm getting some money because that is the other topic you talked about. It helps me to finance one of my hobbies, you know, which I understand you have a similar passion, right? It's about flying, flying airplanes. And so, yeah, I really like this. So I think sustainability is helping us. And we see the same thing in sustainability efforts in terms of flying, right? So the big airlines, the Boeings, especially for learning, for student pilots, where you don't fly long distances,

so therefore you have different opportunities and possibilities. They're looking at hydrogen as well, fuel cells to propel for propulsion in planes. So I think there's a lot of effort in so many different industries, you know, and I can't wait to fly. I can't wait to fly an electrical plane, like a, not like a remote control plane. Yeah, that'll be, that'll be the first time you do that. That'll be different. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. No, no noise pollution, right? So it's quiet and whatever. So you don't even know if the engine is working or not. You can't hear it anymore. I was just going to say, that's one of the things with a car.

I hadn't even thought about an electric propulsion plane. I'm used to feeling the plane, feeling the RPMs, feeling the engine. That's part of the feedback mechanism, and if that all goes electric, the mixture and the RPMs, I won't have as much feel on an an electric plane that'll be that's a unique thought yeah no i mean yeah you're absolutely right right so you hear the rpm of the engine right and when the rpm you can hear it it goes down and you can look at what your speed does you know so you don't need an indicator you know like you see hey look if i'm flying level and um um you know but the rpm goes up you know like something isn't right you know so

so therefore there's an indication our sensory system gets you know stimulated in a way that helps us to make decisions especially in in times when let's say an instrument fails you know so all of a sudden we have to rely on all of our senses and i remember you know when i when i worked like in um maintenance and repair, you know, like you work with all your sensors, you look at it, you smell it, you know, you hear it, you know, so like it gives us clues in terms of like, Hey, what might be wrong here? So yeah, if it's all electric, we can't hear anymore. The engine, right. So it's just hums away. Yeah. So Carson, tell me what got you

excited about flying and tell me one good pilot story. Well, what got me excited about it, remember, this goes all the way back when I was like six, seven, eight years old, back in Germany, right, outside in the boonies. So the German Luft, whatever, Air Force, whatever

they call it, Luftwaffe, I think. So they had, you know, they were flying F-104s, the Starfighters, right? They're called Starfighters. And they were screaming loud back then, right? And then where we lived, so apparently sometimes there was a training area above us. And these jets were flying around, you know, whatever they did, and screaming loud. And all the neighbor kids, you know, we were playing with, they were like running inside, whatever they did, and screaming loud. And all the neighbor kids, you know, we're playing with, they were like running inside, like, ah, like they're screaming,

you know, and I was standing in awe in the field, you know, like looking at those planes and like, that's what I want to do. But then I became an engineer. So I didn't, didn't become a pilot for Lufthansa or so, but I became an engineer. But now, you know, whatever, eight years ago, I decided, you know what, why not now? So I started making my private pilot's license in Los Angeles, which is a very complicated airspace with all these different airports and Los Angeles is there and Burbank and John Wayne, Ontario. So yeah, so that's where I started. I did my private pilot's license. And then after that, you know, of course, not of course, but I wanted to continue. So I did my instrument rating so that you can fly solely by the reference of looking at the instruments. So

you can fly through clouds and stuff like that. So without looking outside and that's challenging in itself. And there's a lot of regulations, you know, you have to maintain because now you have to follow the rules, you know know that air traffic control can separate the traffic you know view from others and then i did my commercial license so i'm a multi-engine high performance complex multi-engine whatever commercial airline rated pilot so so that's you know it's like once you get your what they say like you know once you get your private pilot's license it's a license to learn you know so more the same way we get a driver's license just because somebody's 16 years old and they got their driver's license doesn't

mean like they're a good driver right so they have to learn more and get more experience and and that's how we do you know many of us you you and I, and I still fly 172s today, Cessnas, right? So they're slow. And then all of a sudden, if you start flying faster planes, which is amazing because, I mean, you don't really feel the difference. When you fly at 10,000 feet, whether you fly 90 knots or 180 knots, you don't feel anything different other than you get to your destination twice as fast, right? However, when you do get somewhere, everything happens faster, you know, you're approaching the airport faster, you have to make the turns faster. So all of a sudden, and I remember the first time I flew a twin engine, you know, which is also another challenge,

right? So now we have two engines and there's different elements here and consideration, safety, perspectives, and so forth. So all of a sudden, you're like more complex. You know, there's a task saturation that can happen where all of a sudden, like, there's so much things that need to happen. And if you have less time, then, you know, you have to get used to it. And I think that's similar to what we talked about data center operations right so sure maybe tomorrow is different than today i have to get used to it i have to train for it i have to you know like prepare myself for it i've studied for it and um but i love it i mean i love going into a cockpit of these now we have all these glass panels right in these planes and and it's it's i love

technology i just love understanding it working with it um you know having the communication with air traffic control and then not a few weeks ago i flew from colorado springs to fort collins um and i flew over our house where i live here right. And then I flew all the way in the front range of the Rocky Mountains, you know. And it's just absolutely gorgeous. I love it when you sit there and you see the world in three – I mean, you see the world differently. You interact with the world in three dimensions now. It's not just like forwards, backwards, you know, left and right. But now we can go up and down.

And you have a different vantage point. You look down at stuff, you know. It's right. But now we can go up and down and you have a different vantage point. You look down at stuff, you know, it's like it's up. And then you have the mountains here with the snow covers, you know, like, I mean, it's just absolutely gorgeous. Carson, you talk about the different vantage points. I'm going to pilot story for me. So I was flying in Africa and the roads are poor, right? Very tough road system. And so to take long

journeys in Africa, oftentimes we'll just take the plane, right? And the first time I got up, you know, 15, 17,000 feet in Africa and realized there's just the vastness of Africa, how incredibly spread out it is, how incredibly big it is, and also how undeveloped it is, right? You fly in North America and there's roads and there's cities and there's all kinds of development, all kinds of things that give you landmarks. And you fly over Africa, it's green for thousands of miles. So you're like, holy cow, this place is big. So yeah, that whole different perspective that when I'm walking the roads in Africa, I just don't appreciate. I agree with you.

Of course, it's different if you fly in Los Angeles, where I started learning to fly, or you fly in Wichita, Kansas. You can easily get more easily lost in Wichita, Kansas than in Los Angeles because you have some mountains, there's the ocean, there's downtown, Malibu, whatever, Santa Monica. You can figure it out. You're flying

in Kansas and it's like, it all looks the same, right? The cornfield looks like every other cornfield. That's right. Absolutely. And here's the interesting thing about flying and you asked about the story. So there are four fundamental forces of flying, right? So in the FAA, the Federal Aviation Administration defines it. So one is lift, right? So that is a vector that goes up, that brings the plane up. The other one is weight that brings the plane down because of gravity. And then there's the forward propulsion, that's thrust, right? It's typically the propeller or the jet engine, whatever. And then there's drag, right? Because we move an object through a fluid air, so it's drag.

So these are the four fundamental forces in flying. However, you know, from a pilot's perspective, we look at the same four dimensions rather differently. So number one we look at thrust is money the more money i spend on flying the faster i can fly right the faa the regular regulators these are that's the drag right they're holding us back okay and then the lift that's our these are our dreams oh man i want to fly a six passenger you know like whatever jet so these are the dreams but Oh, man, I want to fly a six-passenger, you know, like whatever, jet. So these are the dreams. And I want to be at 40,000 feet. I want to do it way up there too.

And then there's reality that brings us back, right? So these are as well the four fundamentals of flight from a pilot's perspective, right? I love it. Yeah. Yeah, my father who is an aerospace engineer, you know, he would tell me all the time, he said, Hey, Raymond, we can put anything in space we want. It's just a matter of how much money we want to spend to put it up there.

Right. It's all about getting thrust to get it, get the weight off the ground, lift it and get it through the atmosphere. He's like, we can put anything up there we want. It's just how big is it going to be and how much is it going to cost to get it up there? It doesn't make sense, right? Yeah. Is there an economic to cost to get it up there. Yeah. It doesn't make sense, right? Yeah. Is there an economic viability to have it up there?

Yeah. Yeah. That's why that's one of the reasons why supersonic flight right now is challenging, right? And companies are working on it because the economics is like, it's tough. Just not economically viable yet. Well, fascinating conversation. I love that we share the passion for flight.

Love the sustainability talk. Really appreciate you joining us. Again, we just want to say publicly how grateful we are with our partnership with Schneider Electric. It's a tough time, right? It's a tough time to be trying to deliver our customers' equipment and demands. And the global supply chain has hurt us all. And you guys have just been a fantastic partner through that. And we're super grateful for that and grateful for the same vision about, hey, how do we deliver the technology to the customers and do it in a sustainably responsible

way? Because at the end of the day, I hear all this talk about your industry burns up all this power. Hey, we're just burning power for the apps people want, right? We're really just supporting the global e-commerce, the digitization of our planet. And we just want to do it in as responsible a way as possible. And you guys help us with that. So thank you for that. Yeah, well, hey, look, and likewise, right? So I think what really is fantastic, in my opinion, is having a real good partnership, right? Between, let's say, your compass, us, Schneider Electric, and many others, you know, and you have other partners, obviously, you know, but it's the partnership, right? So where we can plan together, we can trust each other, right? And we are transparent with each other to whatever extent we can be

transparent as public traded companies and so forth. But, you know, we're helping each other. So it's not, to me, a partnership like we have between Schneider Electric and Compass is like a win-win situation. It's a non-zero-sum game, right? So one and one equals three. And I think if we can all work together with our partners in this whole ecosystem, in the data center space, whether this is about technology or sustainability or overcoming kind of supply chain issues, we know, we can actually make it work. And I think although it's a really challenging time right now, and I remember, I mean, two years ago, I said the word for me two years ago was unprecedented. You know, we haven't seen this before.

Well, today it's July 2022. I still think we're in unprecedented times, you know, and there will be in a year from now, it will be unprecedented as well. So therefore, if we have a partnership, we are all sitting in the same boat. You know, we can make it work. And sometimes, you know, the biggest challenges are the greatest opportunities. And, you know, we have challenges at our hands and we have to have the opportunity to make it work, to work with it, you know, so to do the best out of it. And that's what I do. I try to wake up every morning and tell myself, today I'm doing the best thing I can do today, you know.

So I don't want to get bogged down with there's so much things going wrong in the world, you know. So it could easily paralyze us, you know, but we have to move forward. So that's what I'm doing. So being in a partnership with companies like yours, you know, it makes it all worthwhile. Awesome. Carson, we really appreciate you joining us. And it's been good stuff. And we look forward to talking to you again in the future.

Thank you.