NPR Music - Interview: Isaiah Rashad is ready to bare his soul

Episode Date: May 16, 2026

It’s been five years since we last heard music from Isaiah Rashad. And four years since he largely disappeared from the public eye after two leaked sex tapes, featuring Rashad with other men, upended his life. Now, he's back. On his album, 'It's Been Awful,' he reaches new levels of clarity and intimacy. Having survived hypervisibility, this new music encapsulates what it means to truly be seen. In this episode, NPR Music's Rodney Carmichael sits down with Rashad for a wide-ranging interview about the new album, family, addiction and masculinity in hip hop.This podcast episode was produced by Noah Caldwell and edited by Sheldon Pearce.See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

A quick note before the show, this podcast contains explicit language. If you ask for my list of the top five most fearless rappers alive, I would have to say the name Isaiah Rashad five times. This is Rodney Carmichael with NPR Music, and this is a conversation four years in the making. That's how long it's been since the TDE rapper experienced a rude awakening and started the heavy work of redefining masculinity in his own image.

The result is here. The album is It's Been Awful. And Isaiah's fourth studio LP is the most vulnerable, honest, and yeah, fearless confrontation. With himself, with hip-hop, and with patriarchy at large. But warning to listeners and parents who might have younger children listening, there is some profanity, and we cover everything from depression to substance abuse to sex addiction. But mostly, we talk about everything he recovered. in the process. His integrity, his community, and his creative superpowers. So here's my conversation

with Isaiah Rashad. Oh, snap. Hello, Azair Rashad. How you doing, man? It's Rodney Carichael on the other hand. Man, nice to speak to you, man. No doubt, no doubt. Appreciate you being on the other end. We've been really digging this album, bro. For real? Yeah, man, for real. Okay. So how's it feeling, man, it's release day. I mean, it's cool, man. I've been living with this stuff for so long, and I'm, you know, just excited for it to be off my shoulders, you know, I mean, out in the world.

How long have you been living with it? I think I've wrapped it up around November. Oh, wow. Yeah. Okay. I feel like that's rare in hip-hop. Usually people say they go into the last, to the 11th hour. No, no.

I mean, I think for my previous ones, I could say it was like that, but for this one, And we were really keyed in on getting his rollout together and getting all the visuals and creating, you know, creating a world around everything before we gave it to him. I got you. Well, I want to say right out the gate, man, this album is incredible. It's honest. It's brave. It's bumping.

You know, it feels like it's your best work yet. Man, thank you, man. Yeah. And it's really evident how much work you put into it, too. I mean, like a lot of emotional lifting. and label, so to speak. So I'm curious, like, how literal should we take the album title?

Like, how awful has it really been? I mean, without necessarily, you know, overlooking my blessings in life and opportunities I've had, I think on a human level, it's been pretty fucked up. But at the same time, you know, like the whole attitude towards it was recognizing, like,

the different kind of space. that I could particularly be in and but moving past it trying to move towards you know clarity I've been through a lot of adjustments I guess you could say the past couple years and just to an extent re-understanding my my identity to myself so that's that was really the biggest part of this project was was making sure like I stayed true to making something healthy well just to put a a fine point on it, you really experienced such a huge violation of your privacy. From what we all know now is the leaking of a sex tape four years ago that outed you without your consent.

Something that was clearly intended to cause you a lot of hurt and pain. But this album is so liberating in a sense that I wonder, is it possible that, you know, an incident that was meant to cause you so much hurt and pain, maybe on the other end, liberated you too in a creative sense? I'm a full believer in destiny and a full believer in like, you know, like I feel like I'm an instrument, a vessel for God or whoever you believe in individually. I feel like I'm being led by by that spirit to, you know, be a hug for people and to be a human, like a mirror for certain people and like my music isn't for everybody I don't think anything's for everybody but for the for the audience that it does reaches out it does reach I feel like

it's important that I'm as transparent as possible and I never felt like like I didn't feel I felt less exposed and more like somebody took an opportunity for me to take a step in my life and present myself how I wanted to and to express what I've been going through or even, you know, just all of it about myself in a way that I could have done it, I guess, neater. But I feel like it, like you said, I feel like it was purposeful because it allowed me to say, fuck it when, you know, I have nothing else to do, but to lay it all out there. And I was going, like you said, I was, I was going through a lot of pain that I needed to

identify, I needed to find new ways to make sense of everything. And, like, you know, just the, without going into too much depth, like, there's not a lot of room for any of that in the typical black community. Exactly. So, you know, it was like I was really, I felt like I was trying to avoid being ostracized by my own people. And then, I guess up to this point, I felt more acceptance for people who, you know, just share similar experiences. They don't necessarily, they tell me, I don't know who else knows, but people find a reason to tell me about stuff in their lives now. So I felt there was an obligation to, you know, not be a poster child for depression

or a post child for addiction or sexuality at all, but definitely being like, I'm not afraid to stand on what happens in my life. And again, like, everything happens for a reason. Well, I want to get into that a little more in terms of, especially when you talk about the black community, especially the hip hop community. But I'm curious first, like, what would you say it gave you the freedom to talk about

that you hadn't before? I feel like up into this point, in comparison, I probably was being, like, 88% honest at face with everything. It was what I was being comfortable about. And then down was more like 100. And it doesn't, I guess it just doesn't hurt to...

I don't have... I don't feel the risk. factor in talking about stuff. You know? I feel like the only people who listen to it want to hear about it or can identify with it at this point anyway. Well, you've always been such a feelings-based artist, right? Like, but on this album, everything feels less opaque, if you will.

You know, it's like you're filling in the details, your thoughts, your experiences, a lot of context and your life. You know, these are not these are not the classic Isaiah Rashad puzzle raps You know that you used to like to give us I'd say that was something that particularly I didn't want to do with this album I feel like that was if it was anything holding me back was my own understanding of how to say what I wanted to say so You say puzzle rap and I say hieroglyphics Mm-hmm to me I was rapping in hieroglyphics and if you understood you understood but even if you understood you couldn't necessarily explain that to somebody else.

So how did you go about, did it require you to be a different kind of rapper when you got in the booth in the studio? I think just trying to be intentionally descriptive because I don't really use punchlines and I don't really use a lot of metaphors or similes.

So it was like, it was harnessing the flow and the style they already used and it was really being descriptive and challenging myself to do that. Like, you know, at the first level of it all, it has to be entertaining to me. I feel like I already just say shit. And I'm like, and I feel like I have a certain cadence that kind of is more of a flow to itself than anything else I'm saying. So I feel like I just have the opportunity after everything to just say it.

Everything. Just as long as I keep a little flow to it, keep a little style to it, make sure I don't finish the song without throwing some little pizzazz. I'm like, I feel like the mission was to only just, it's like a diary this time. You know? For sure. That's all it was supposed to be. Especially after all of that and everything the past couple years, it was like, I'm either going to fall off or not. Like, it's not in my hands with this album.

And so my only obligation was to the essence of the art was like, well, be as honest as you can be. Don't try to make a hit, like, or not necessarily hit, but like, don't try to go in here and try to reinforce your masculinity. and rah-rah. It's like, all right, be soft, man. And not even like saying that's a representation of any size of sexuality, but like, you know,

you now have an opportunity to be, you know, thoughtful and not be so callous. I heard that house got motion, fish, poses, pitches, oceans, liquor, shineers, rhymes still fucking no functions. Mait.

Don't do a line. I feel like a focus, physics, profits, pitches, praying and I got a new dope, we tain, y'all, and I sell them no coke. You had to learn it was frozen, victims, closure, sickness, cold, the fiction, time is all day fucking the most occasion. The fury abs in the month of dizzy, scathing, lust, anxious, suffering, fucking. I feel like we wear masculinity almost like a straight jacket in hip-hop. You know, you're from Tennessee. I'm from Georgia. Even though I'm a tad older, I think a lot of the southern rap that you grew up on shaped me too. So, in a sense, we both come from this era where, you know, your identity, your gender, your sexuality, it all had to line up in like a very specific way for you to call yourself a man. Yeah. You know, even though our understanding of that has expanded as a society, I'm not. sure that it has in hip-hop.

So, like, how do you think about what it means for you to be challenging those norms and expectations, not just in your private life, but in your music, too? I feel like right now, I mean, how do I feel about challenging it? Or do you feel like that's even what you're doing? Do you feel like you're challenging any of the norms around, masculinity and hip-hop with your music right now? I mean, yeah, I'd agree that I am. It wasn't my intent to, but I think it's more so that, I guess, even after my recorded history,

I guess some people assume that I would just turn into a different person. You mean in the last five years? Yeah, I guess, like, in the way I present myself, I notice people are upset that I'm not, I don't come off more feminine now. Really? Yeah, like I was supposed to, so I guess that's a thing, you know? Wow. A lot of, a lot of, my best friend, my best friend who really helped me put myself together post, like, right when I was in between college and actually meeting the people that would get me to TDE was like super in touch with himself gay guy who was super masculine though.

It was more of a man than I've ever met anybody. me and my friends and was a shooter and an army and all those other shit, you know what I'm saying? So I don't know what it particularly means outside of like, I don't know. I don't even understand. I think within a black community, like the idea of what being masculine is just kind of like fucked up in itself. I don't even know what that means, especially because we kind of live in a matriarchy compared to the rest of the communities that we share space with. I don't know how other races.

and cultures deal with stuff but to me at the basis black people are centered on matriarchy like being a man is kind of second to being a, you know like you know

it just we just have to I don't know I don't like the tough guys shit I don't like everybody I grew up with like being sensitive

and being a father being a brother takes a lot of sensitivity you know I feel like the most masculine shit that I've seen from my friends are

these guys guys who I thought, you know, super tough guys. You're like, bro, why don't you just talk to me about this stuff? You know, why don't you just, it was those kind of concerns where I was just like, man, our ideas of just, even the word masculine, just have us like, you know? Yeah, yeah, I do, I do. I got a six-year-old son. I know you're dad, too. You got three kids, right?

Yeah. And teaching them to be sensitive is like a, and to be okay with being sensitive is such a, depending on. what kind of beliefs you deal with it's like you can be teaching your kid not to cry and it's like what does that mean? I took the Wimby thing it was a quote that Wimby I'm a huge basketball fan that Wembe had the other day

about he refuses to like something I'm paraphrasing but he refused to do that to himself to where he has to conceal his emotions he was crying on court and like why do I have to hold myself back for other people I guess it's the same same type of way

that's how I feel about the whole mass skilling thing within our community. Like, why can I be sensitive and still, you know, I can still, I'll change a tire still. I'm going while I do it, maybe, you know, if I'm going through it, you know, type of shit. I mean, have you always felt this way or is there, um, it's just kind of like newfound? No, I've always felt like this, though. I've always been a pretty hug on my people, kissing my people, like kind of guy. Like, I'm always, you know, I was raised by women.

I don't know any other way but to show somebody I love him. Never been a tough guy. Hey, baby, come inside. I want to play some fire shit. What were your main models of manhood growing up? Well, I summed up being a man to providing. I think it was providing and like, I'll get in trouble for you. Like, if need be, like, self-sacrifice was masculine to me.

You know, providing and self-sacrifice. Putting other people ahead of yourself was just like a weird, that's the only thing I saw. I'm like, compared to the men in my community in my life who were spoken negatively about, compared to the ones that were positive. The positive ones I noticed that the common thread was just that they were willing to sacrifice their whole selves

for everybody else. So I think our idea of masculinity kind of comes with a bit of like putting your everything after. the people you care about, which is like, that's not healthy, you know? That's not self-love. Do you see yourself as a sacrifice on any level? Because I feel like, even though it wasn't your intent or your agency was robbed on some level in the way that it happened, you sparked a conversation that is, like, long overdue,

especially in hip-hop? Yeah. Does that feel sacrificial to you in any way? No, man. I think I think God for everybody who came. before me who dealt with any any of this i don't even know what the call this is like i don't even know what the call like what happened when it is but you know like any any black any anybody any male or whatever male female period who's had to deal with their sexuality or the questioning of in front of

people like i thank them for making this easier for me just me like even even somebody like fucking frank ocean kind of softballed this for me i feel like for me and like it it'd be different if i was out here, like, if I was young nudie, you know? You're right. Like, it'd be different, but I'm like... Super hard. Yeah, but, like, all my... At least, like, all my biggest, like, at least, like, when I'm on stage, my biggest

songs are, like, about crying, man. They're about crying. You know, he's always been vulnerable. Yeah, so it's like, it's cool. I feel like I've been... I'm just, at this moment, able to be who I probably was supposed to be. Even if I'm still a person learning myself and still, you know, I'm just supposed to be the homie when you turn it on in the most authentic way.

And I feel like this is God and the universe's way of allowing me to continue to be that. I mean, continue to be useful. Yeah, for sure, for sure. You talk about family a lot on this album. It comes up again and again on the song, Act Normal. You talk about, in a sense, you're talking about the sins of the father passing down to the child, even in terms of things like sex addiction and your family. I remember now don't feel too much to your eyes get these

or ties for babies who are elders and form it was normal you grow old and run trains you remain here maybe it was ludic sexless saved as and watching all they're born and the morning might change for ever's living and get it warm with yourself where it's love with I don't just a boy or girl act normal Were those things that you always understood or were they revelations that you only started to reckon with like in recent years

The things that I've understood the past few years, I could say the last, I've dealt with him since I was like about 20, 21, you know? Like, I've had a good record. I've recognized. It's why I had such a, um, such a strenuous relationship with, like, my uncle who's and my, my biological dad and even like my brother at times that, I, without asking. Without asking, it kind of gave me the blueprint of, you know, terrible things to do. infidelity passing down how they looked at

how minimally they looked at sex and stuff outside of like just a pleasure thing not something you really share with somebody it's a you know definitely and the shit they left left around on the computer the shit they left

sitting on the counter and we was like eight nine you know just irresponsible things the porn man yeah all that The porn magazines, the VCRs back then. And then you see a swath of it. And you're like, what the fuck is this? And you never forget that kind of shit.

Yeah. And especially if these are the people who you kind of shaping yourself around, you know, you don't immediately see they're like, oh, I'm becoming these motherfuckers. Like type of shit. So as you grow into that understanding on this end, are those conversations that you end? that you end up having with any else family members, or has that kind of continue to go on set or just put into the music?

I'm trying to figure out a way between empathizing and confronting somebody when I'm in those situations to where I'm like, I can't really, I could get at you for what you did to me or you inadvertently did it. But then I'm like, somebody did that to you. And so I'm like, I don't even know where to go with that outside of just trying to end the cycle on my end.

Because them niggas need hugs, man. I mean, you know, these have terrible opinions of themselves and self-worth. And we just express it in different ways, you know? Yeah. Yeah, this is bringing me back to more of the stuff you talk about in the album. One of my favorite songs on the album is Superpowers. Yeah. It comes at the end, but I feel like the whole thing sort of speaks to, you know,

the entire experience that you're kind of unfolding. album and there's this part where it sounds like you just straight up start interviewing yourself and like posing all the questions that you know everybody wants to ask on the low yeah yeah yeah yeah i love that part um and i don't know if if you can you can you quote some of those lines right now i think i got it on me right now oh yeah man i i was writing this for my for my like best friend In Memphis, in Murphsboro, Michi. Because it was like a, it's just like, to me, this is positive music. Like, to me.

For sure. So it's like, you know, it's like for all the sad shit, I kind of like to recognize. I don't like the brag or beat braggadocious. Kind of like trying to just have confident raps. You know, and like on some, I don't want to hop in an interview and be like, well, you know, these people on the internet. But I like to at least like me like, I see that stuff.

And though it does particularly bother me if I'm having a wrong day, I still know, I still know myself. I like to think I know myself better than anybody else does. How I make it through all that bullshit, I don't know. You're talking about that?

Yeah, yeah. How I get sober fucked up and clean again, I don't know. How you rap, suckers around niggas, but you don't drive. I don't know. I know niggas gonna judge me, but I don't judge them.

It's real, though. That's how I felt about about all that type of shit because I feel like I really don't have an understanding of how this happens outside of like God planning

and I don't think you know self-abuse isn't God's plan but I feel like the lesson was you know what I'm saying I can't fathom why I'm here and I want the niggas to know that from time to time I do be feeling like outside of like two of my

peers that kind of raised me there's nobody better than me at this I just I'd have a style that nobody has that nobody none of it I don't feel like that you can't name 10 rappers that could write a whole song without a simile in a metaphor and be able to get it off

I feel like people are crutches to English and they don't know English type of shit on certain like you know tools and stuff so that was my whole thing with that it was I was talking to my best friend Meachy.

This song was literally me just talking to him. I think I said in the first line. When I say, this is for my dog then Lil Mici from the dirt. I'm saying Lil Mici from the dirt. Okay. Yeah, so this whole song is for him.

It's for him and anybody. How to make it through all that bullshit, I don't know. How it gets soap or fucked up and clean again. I don't know. How you be rapping circles around niggas but you don't drop.

I don't know. I know niggas gonna judge me but I don't judge them. I don't know. A lot of my money, count with my sins, I don't know, that I sacrificed the innocence but then, I don't know. Do I love you like I love you on that shit, I don't know? Say I'm never going back, but then again, I don't know. Been finding out to end my real friends no more.

Chase the money I need to chase my kids, oh no. I got this power in my hands, hold on. I told you we would do it big for sure, for sure. A lot of this album feels like is you talking to a friend, a person. Like your audience is a very intimate conversation between you and somebody. Yeah. That you're allowing us to eavesdrop on a little bit. My mom and my sister.

Yeah. Yeah. They definitely come up. Yep. They come up, especially you mentioned your sister in the first song on the album too. Yeah. I would, man, we had been waiting for my sister not to put a business out there, We went waiting for my sister got out of jail for like four years.

And that was like a tough thing to go through. And I didn't realize how much I love my sister. I know I love my sister, but like how much I might have like depending on her, talking to her. And then when people are in jail, I don't really like that. They want to hear it, but I don't want to tell them I'm having something good going on. I don't like expressing that kind. It was hard to have a connection. So all I could do is like listen and like pray for my sister when I'm going to talk to her.

so and I feel like she knows me better than anybody else and we didn't talk about this shit one time the whole time she was in jail uh-uh she just asked me if I was okay okay so I feel like that was the most real version of my sister it was like I don't give a fuck

it was her to me it was her just since I'll give it what I mean you mentioned a minute ago you mentioned the lesson the you know the lesson the lesson that comes out of it. What for you is the lesson? Don't do drugs and don't like, like, especially don't be out here by yourself depending on a substance

so you don't numb yourself out. And don't fucking be intoxicated, record yourself doing stupid shit. Like, I couldn't blame nobody for that. I put myself in a situation. So I don't know, even if the intent was vindictive or, you know, malicious is still, like, at the end of the day,

it came from my hands, man. from my own shit. And that was the main thing for me to, that was the biggest lesson for real was like self-responsibility. It's like I'm gonna be the one to build it up and I'm gonna be the one to tear it down. And I gotta figure out, you know,

what mission am I really on? I wonder if, and listening to this album, you talk about, you know, addiction and relapse and rehab. And I started to wonder if the cycles of addiction that you've battled, openly battled through the years,

was tied in any way to the parts of yourself that you felt like you had to hide from the general public? I guess, like, it all feasts into each other. Part of me was like, I tried to give one particular thing too much power and say, this is why. I feel like that. When there's all of it, it's, it's, it's, They don't write stories about the bisexual black boy.

To the point that I was afraid to watch Moonlight. Oh, really? Yeah, I finally watched that shit like a year ago, and I cried like so much. That is such a good movie. I was like, oh, this is crazy. You knew about it already or how did you end up? I knew about it. It's like, I guess, like I said, like they don't write books about like curiosity about the black bisexual curiosity or any of that.

And they defined, it's like kind of defined for us before we even, like, get the opening that book that you're either this or you're that. There is no in between where we're at. And there is no, I got kids. There's like, and I'm like, those relationships weren't fake. Like, I didn't, those, those tears that we shared together and the experiences we went to, they weren't fake. They weren't, like, made up.

So to have people tell me that I'm a liar when I'm like, no, bro, I've been in love. bro. I know what that is. Like, but I just, you know, it's, I only have so much room to be black and a rapper and that's two

double masculines on top of each other and then all these other shit. I only have so much of my soul to actively. You know, if there was a measure, if there was a measuring cup of how much you can handle with your stress and I kind of just put sexuality

in the back of that. I'm like, this is enough. I'm like, that and getting on and just not trying to be broke was enough. And I didn't feel like at the time it was a particularly important part of my story. Especially this is like, it felt like the most private part.

My love life is pretty private. The most private. Yeah, in general. Yeah, yeah. And I don't feel a quorum about having privacy. That was the one thing. Like, I have no problem being like, there's none of your business.

Like, as a, from my idea of how the audience, anybody else, like, would take some stuff. I'm like, it's just not your business. It wouldn't, but at the same time, I guess, like, being a rapper is being naked. So they expect that. Wow.

And when they find out that you're not that naked, they're like, hold on you got clothes on them? Well, being a rapper, especially in this day and age, is also a performance. I don't think we encounter many that are as willing to be as naked and vulnerable, as you always been, but as you're being, especially right now.

I feel like people would just play dumb. You're talking about the rappers or the audience? Yeah, rappers. Both. Both. Both is both. But like rappers particularly, like we, the foundations of our stuff is art. Like it's art.

And if you want to go to the purest, you know, what they'll put on VH1, what that idea of fucking like being hip-hop is, It's every form of black art. It's black art and community that's hip-hop. So rap comes from serving, you know? Like, emceeing is different, but rapping is you are a journalist, either an autobiographer or you've agreed to tell what your best friend's doing.

One of the two, like to me, that's how I always looked at it. You know the most surprising thing to me, in the immediate aftermath of everything, was like all the support that you said you got from hip hop after after the tape leaked. I was really cute. Like what did that support look like? Was it just online or like, you know, what did it look like and how did it make you feel at the time? The best ones were, I love you, keep going.

The okay ones were, what was it, how did these? Niggas would act like I got sick or something. And they're like, and it's like, they're like, bro, don't worry. No, it's the random I see you somewhere, and then you grab my shoulder and you say, don't worry about what them people are saying. And I'm like, I was worried about getting some food before you said that shit. But at the same time, like, I appreciate, like, niggas is just trying to hold me in the way they can hold me in. I don't know, man, like, it's just, you know, the things, even when we're talking about,

these are just unsaid things in our community. They're not things that don't exist. There's just things that we, like, don't exist. you know, where we might act like it's a sickness but, you know, I don't believe that. But the support,

I wasn't, I was kind of surprised by it, but again, I kind of give, like, presents and, like, credit to people like Tyler and fucking Frank and even shit, the brat. Yeah. Anybody else who, even something like, for me,

like, some of, like, some of the trans rappers and even, you know, rappers and the Quirk Committee from New Orleans, Louisiana, I got a lot of people from there that reached out to me, like that type of stuff to me. It was like, I make pretty sensitive music. So I was like, I feel like that was the main thing that was like, what's the difference?

I think it was people who favorite song of me was me like belittling a woman. was like they felt betrayed. And I'm like, we both have a problem, bro. Right. That was the main thing for this album, really, that I was most proud of. I'm like, I don't have one bar talking bad about a woman. Wow.

And like, compared to, like, my last project, it was at the, the last project, I was at the height of me being, like, indulging in escapism. Okay. To the point that, like, I listened to that album and I'm like, ew, this is gross. I'm like this is really like gross This is like That's how you feel now Yeah man that last project I'm like that's nasty

Why are you talking like that That's funny you I don't know if you remember You did a breakdown with us You and Kyle For Yeah that's one of my favorite interviews Series

Yeah I love that interview too That's one of my favorite interviews For sure But yeah that song Comes to mind When I think about Lyrically What you're talking about

Because I mean It was obviously very like tongue and cheek. Yeah. It was a lot going on in the song, you know what I mean? So those are the kind of songs that you're talking about? You're talking about that 9-3 freestyle? That shit's crazy.

No, I don't think this was 9-3 freestyle. That's true. I felt like when all that shit happened to me, I was like, that's karma for writing this song. Really? Dad-ass. It's particularly stuck out to me. I was like, you're terrible. You deserve this.

Well, see, now I got to go back and listen to 9-3 freestyle. I was like, oh, you're a tent. I'm like, watch what you say. I've watched what I said since then. Watch what you say. Hold on. Now I'm going back to look at the one that we talked about. This song right here.

Hey, mister. Oh, yeah. All that. The whole album. Okay. Yeah, that whole album. So does it feel weird to, like, do you feel to need to distance yourself from previous, like, art that you had out in the world? No.

It's who I am. It's who I was at different phases of myself. You know? I'm not particularly proud of it, but shit. I signed up for this. I signed up for this. It's like, you know, a certain part of it is me appreciating the growth. And if it's a good song, I'm going to play it if they want to hear it, man.

As long as it ain't too crazy, it's certain shit that I'm just not playing anymore. But for the most part, everything's a go. What were you said? list look like now you got a big performance in LA tonight right yeah it's gonna be a lot of the like a handful of the new stuff and then a handful of just i guess if there was the greatest of the they're expecting of you know the track list really don't change i never really did 9-3 freestyle anyway i don't really like doing hey mister it takes a lot of energy to do that a whole bunch to make it entertaining to me so it's kind of like you know the universe never allowed me to

even indulge in that shit on stage anyway. I know you said that you're not intentionally setting out to, you know, to challenge or subvert, you know, masculinity or the way it's been represented. But it definitely feels like you are modeling a new version of black masculinity within hip-hop, specifically. Is that something that you, you know, take pride in? or something that you can acknowledge or appreciate? How does that feel?

Yeah, man. Like, anything positive, like, I have no issue, right, like, towards it. I don't have a particular thing that I think about on the day-to-day as far as when it comes to this. I think it's just being authentic to myself. I have this rare opportunity to not care about what people think of me. And my idea of it is just, like, that doesn't give me the excuse. used to, you know, go pop pills and go be a wild boy. I'm like, oh, I can be myself and be at peace.

I don't have to be myself and go party. Or even if people party, it's cool, but I ain't got to be myself and go look for a way to express myself. I'm like, damn, I'm, you know, I'm naked now to me. Like, I'm completely naked in the world. Take me as I am type of shit. So how did the peace come? Because I know right after everything happened, you talked about. about, you know, some of the tragedies that came immediately following that.

I think you had, like, a couple of car accidents. Yeah, man, I was, I was wilding, bro. I was wilding. My granddad died. My uncle died. Synodontosis. Yeah. So, I guess the piece came from, I got to give a lot of it to my family for making sure we talked about all this stuff.

It wasn't just stuff that, like, you know, for the ones that already knew of me, 100,000 percent. It was more reinforcing, you know, and game planning therapy. And for the people who didn't have all the info, it was, they embraced and it was more like, okay, so

how do we get you, I guess, okay with yourself? How do you get your, you know what I mean? Because you think you're okay with yourself and then you're like, you feel exposed. Yeah. And then you have to deconstruct what is exposed and what is all that kind of shit. I mean, it's been a four-year, five-year break,

so time gave me peace and time to consider, like, what kind of album? Like, the music really helped, man. Yeah. Like, being able to channel and center myself, and if I could figure out the way,

if I could figure out words to put in a song that, that, again, aren't hieroglyphics and puzzles, then it kind of just makes everything easier. I cried so many times after so much, many of these songs I made, especially act normal, and especially New Sublime.

And then a couple of joints there are on the deluxe that you might not, I don't think you've heard. So, they were pretty key for me. Yeah, some of my favorite songs, they were pretty key for me to, you know, if I can express it, I don't even deal with it no more. It's kind of like

a blessing. As soon as I rap it, it's like, okay. That made it easier. Yeah, yeah. We're in the process that those two songs in particular come in that New Sublime and Ag Normal, was it toward the middle end?

New Sublime was probably the first track I made for that album. Really? And the first song on the album. Okay. And then Act Normal was around last October. Might have been October before. I was making this album since the end of 2023. Yeah, I was

going to ask how long. Since about December, 23, January, 24. That's when I started, like, making this album for real. And I got done like last November. So it's like roughly a year and a half, almost two years to record it. We recorded about

100 songs. Wow. And what was that selection process like? What were you looking for when you listen back to see what will make it? Partly, what is a full song out of these 100 demos? What's closest to the full song? And what's

after New Sublime and then the track particularly M-O-M-O-M-O-M-A-Mission. They kind of set me sonically over where I wanted to go like a medium. I'm like, I want to be, which far as new sublime, I'm like, okay, I want to rap more, but I want to say what I'm saying here. Like, I want to say more this, but I don't want it to be in the same flow. And then Man on the Mission was like, okay, it kind of set the tone that I wanted to kind of dance the whole album.

Okay, for sure. Yeah, I wanted to dance in some type of way, the entire album. And they kind of set the tone on that. New sublime is like, it's like your thesis statement right out of the gate. Yeah, I thought it was really powerful. Me particularly, I like that first line. And I thought it was, as soon as I wrote it, I was like, okay, this is going to be interesting. Because I had never seen nobody say nothing like that when I read something out.

You know what I'm saying? I'm cut from a symphony and I feel afflicted falling over. I'm like, okay, this is going to be an interesting song. Falling over. Ask me who I'm fucking. I've been fucking up. Since they sent my sister back to jail, back when we were Papa Zan.

If I romanticize them purses, I might relapse. Again, giving up my home. I've been to Clark as Ken at my lowest. And you mentioned act normal. The hook on Act Normal is like, man, it's so, It's so layered.

Yeah, I just keep playing that song back. And what inspires that? Like, what are you processing through the hook of that song? The people making me choose, like, who are you? And I'm like, I don't trust anybody. Like, in that, like, I guess it's mostly what I was expressing. I don't trust a boy or girl at normal. Like, who am I supposed to, you know?

Like, who am I supposed to, like, how can I? what if I don't like anybody? Yeah. It's like, what if, what if, what if, at the end of it, I don't like anybody? Well, I hear you doing that too in the album, in a sense. You're almost like questioning, questioning love or if love is enough sometimes. Yeah, I was at a particular point where I was like, maybe it's me that I love, like, in a, I guess my greatest fear isn't like being bisexual or anything. It's like, what if I'm asexual?

Like, what if I don't like anybody? And I've been going through all this to just realize I kind of want to be with community and not necessarily be with somebody. And then maybe not even have a sexual relationship. Maybe I question that,

like my fulfillment on that type of stuff. Yeah. Well, I know I got to wrap up, man. One last thing I wanted to say is... I appreciate you too, by the way, man. I could talk to you all there. You know, easy come over. Man, this is a great conversation.

Back to Superpowers at the end of the album, one of my favorite parts is when you sing the hook because, you know, it's almost like you're kind of discovering and like reveling in the fact that you've got real superpowers. But I also love how it's a callback to the beginning of the album on New Sublime, where you say you've been to Clarkist Kent at your lowest. Yeah, there's a Superman motif throughout the album. Okay, okay.

It wasn't intentional until I realized I was doing it. Okay. That's your comic book thing kicking you. Yeah, right? Yeah, and the part that's the psychology that that's him and his purest. You know, that's who he really is. Well, just to draw that metaphor out a little bit further, I'm curious, like, how did you overcome your kryptonite and tap back into your superpowers?

When it feels like the world's trying to take something away from me And I had the question What it was? I'm like because it felt like somebody was trying to take something from me But it was really taking my connection with like My listeners away You know it was really like taking these are some of my Without knowing them some of my best friends You know without necessarily knowing them

It's some of the people I get to you know like you get to talk to a stranger somewhere and you get to tell them some shit I feel like that was an opportunity that I was at an impetus of not being able to have anymore Wow

It was, I don't know It felt like a do or die thing I feel like God And this timing and the world was letting me know like, okay, that's time for it's time's up for facades

the time's up for being afraid yourself time's up for being afraid of not having acceptance from the people you want it from and maybe if you can't get acceptance from those people you don't need them in your life yeah and it's time up for self-abuse you know it was that like it was it was it really felt like if i didn't do it i'm gonna die well i'm glad you did it i'm glad you did it and i hope hip-hop meets you fully not halfway but but fully. Isaiah Rashide, I appreciate you, folk.

Oh, man, I appreciate you, man. You from Atlanta? You want to grow on, man. Yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, chat. You know, we're an hour away from you. For sure. Keep protecting your peace, man.

We need you. Man, I appreciate you, man. Hopefully, you can be shaking hands soon. I mean. No doubt. I appreciate you, man. All right, man. Enjoy this album, man, and this weekend.

And well past it, man. This is a good one, man. Thank you, Michelle. I appreciate the empathy, bro. No doubt, no doubt. Take care. You too, man. the crash baby past living in the past baby stairs only at the mass baby we ran from that