NPR Music - Little Simz, Ty Segall, yeule, more: The Contenders, Vol. 12

Episode Date: June 3, 2025

We update our running list of the year's best songs with old-school guitar rock from Ty Segall, a playful left turn for rapper Little Simz, yeule's pop from the ether and more.Featured artists and songs:1. Little Simz: "Young," from 'Lotus'2. yeule: "Dudu," from 'Evangelic Girl Is a Gun'3. Wednesday: "Elderberry Wine" (single)4. Ty Segall: "Shining," from 'Possession'5. Nourished By Time: "Max Potential," from 'The Passionate Ones''All Songs Considered' 25th anniversary segment: Our No. 1 songs from 2014Weekly reset: Ringing bells at a neighborhood shrine near OsakaEnjoy the show? Share it with a friend and leave us a review on Apple or wherever you listen to podcasts. Questions, comments, suggestions or feedback of any kind always welcome: [e-mail] Hear new songs from past episodes in the All Songs Considered playlists in Apple Music and Spotify.See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

You are a coffee drinker, right? I am. What is it? Cream, sugar, black, soy, latte, squirt of syrup or something? What do you do? I feel like it's kind of different every time. I think most of the time when I'm at home,

it's just drip, drip black coffee, and then I put a little bit of regular milk in it. And then sometimes I'll get a latte out, and sometimes I'll get, like, cappuccino out. But for the most part, it's just, like, regular black coffee with a little milk in it. Well, you know what half and half is, though, right? If I have to say, like half and half, you know what that is, right?

What do you mean? No. What do you mean? What do you mean? If I say, I'll take a cup of coffee with half and half. Yes. Oh, yes. I'm aware. Yes. All right. Well, because a friend, I'm on this because I was just talking with a friend of mine. He's my age and he works with a bunch of younger people, like 20-somethings. And he says that they always make fun of him for getting coffee with half and half. And, you know, like, apparently that's what grandpas do. And he asked them, well, what do you get? in their coffee, and they said, well, soy milk or oat milk or something like that. And then one of them said, well, what even is half and half? And I thought, what is happening? I do think that that tracks because my parents drink half and half. And I don't think half and half is not carried over into my life. And there have been times where I was using oat milk or I was using almond milk.

But half and half is not, half and half is dying. Oh, come on. Really? All right. Well, pure dairy is on its way out. I think, like, yeah. No. Yeah. Unless you're, I don't know. No. I think it's on its way out.

What are you going to say, unless you're like a farmer? Well, I think that's just absolute madness. This is not how I thought my day was going to go. It is all songs considered. I'm Robin Hilton, Hazel Sills here. We have so many big questions, I think, on this show. They always seem to come up in the songs whenever we do a contenders. episode. This week, none of them have anything to do with coffee. This week's mix has me thinking

about lots of things about youth. You know, you're young. Is youth wasted on the young? I mean, I know I look at you and I hear what you do on weekends and stuff. And I think, oh, my God. I don't think it's wasted on me. I think I'm having a great time. I don't know. Yeah, well, that's one of the questions. Other big questions. Whatever happened to guitar rock? Guitar Rock, used to run the world. Not so much anymore. Also, lots of stuff on love and relationships this week, the bread and butter of music. In this case, how do you find the right balance so that you don't, you know, blow it all up or ruin it or just go completely nuts along the way? Let's start with the whole youth thing.

Let's do it. And this comes from new music that we got from Little Sims. Little Sims back with a new album. Her sixth album, hardest word in the world to say, her sixth album. It's called Lotus, Little Sims, British rapper. She's been on quite a run. Won the Mercury Prize in 2022 for her album, sometimes I might be introvert.

Had another what I would call 10 out of 10 album right after it called No Thank You. And did you see that she's entered the Marvel Universe? No, I'm not surprised. She was in one of the Venom movies. Okay. Yeah, I actually haven't seen it yet. But she's back with this new album, Lotus. It's got this insanely catchy thumper.

that I want to play. It is called Young. My testing, one, two, one, two. Okay. That's creeping in my window. I get a hot flash whenever the wind blows. Nothing to my name now when everybody knows. When I'm in need of cash, I go down to the bingo. Last night I arched Jenny for a quid.

This is the fifth time I'm used to taking the... A bottle of Rio and some chicken and chips in my f-knocking at the... front door. Please no more. I'm 20-something young with my priority straight. I need to buy a booze and I need to buy a drawer. This summer I'm going out every night. Anyone can get a tight, scared of a fight. Besides, but this is my dear of the perfect life. I didn't listen, but ignition. I just want to play my bass here. You know how some songs are growers? This is one right out the gate. I knew I was going to love it. Like two seconds into it, right? Yeah.

It's such a different turn for her. Like, I was so surprised when I hit play on this song for the first time. Yeah. Because it's so tweet and kind of quirky. Yeah. It's very quirky. It reminds me of, like, you know, the streets and Kate Nash and Lily Allen and that kind of, like, early 2010s wave.

I was thinking almost like wet leg or Olivia Rodriguez or something. So I wanted to ask you about this. Because I did, after I listened to the song a few times, I was like, is this kind of a wet leg parody? I don't think the song is malicious at all, but I was like, this feels like Little Sims entering the wet leg universe. Like even that line where she's like, I just want to play my bass here. This feels like Little Sims, you know, making a wet leg song. Well, I mean, it's got that playfulness. It's very plain spoken.

that almost detached sort of completely indifferent to everything sort of vibe, but also full of swagger, which is what I think of with wet leg and Olivia Rodrigo in some of her stuff too. Totally. But yeah, I don't know if it's a send-up or if it's... Sincere. Yeah, more like, that's cool. Yeah. I want to do that. Yeah, just those lines about like being young and dumb and not having responsibilities. But yeah, it is a real turn for her and it's serious earworm.

Yeah. It does have sort of a playground taunt. Yes. To a dozen in that, da, da, that da, that, you know, like, it is sort of a kind of a taunt. But I don't know. I don't want to read too much into it. But I felt like to me that this was a song largely about realizing the real value of your youth and what a special kind of fleeting time it is. not in a sad way, but just like, you know what, this is an amazing time and I just want to

have fun. I don't want to worry about what other people think. And I think, you know, when she talks about music, she just wants to play her bass. She's like, I'm not going to worry about clicks or an audience or whatever. I'm just going to make music to make music because I love it and I'm just going to have fun. Yeah, it's interesting because Little Sims is actually my age. We're the same age. We're both 31. And it's interesting. Like it's, When you put it that way, it's like, you know, when you're in your 20s, people think, you think, oh, your 30s are so far away. Your 30s are so old. Yeah.

And then you get here and you're like, no. Yeah. I'm still so young. Oh, yeah. And we should be having fun. 35's the cutoff. I think 35. Really?

Well, well, the cut. I think 40s are young. I think, I don't know. I think they're young. I think they're young. But to me, 35, I remember 35 was the moment I realized, okay, there's. There's no more pretending that I'm a 20-something anymore. My 20s are solidly behind me, you know, and now I'm 30.

And it was fine. I felt I didn't feel old. But in your early 30s, you're still totally in touch with that whole lifestyle and vibe and feeling of everything. I think when you're 20s. And then you kind of cross over and, I don't know. It's not like it's gone forever. Well, I'm 5,000 years old. I'm a vampire.

So this is all just kind of speculation on my end. I've assumed that that is why you never want to get together in the afternoon for coffee or anything like that. It's always a hard pass. I like, I got to be in my coffin. I'm so sorry. So Little Sims, the song, Young from this album, Lotus from her sixth album. Sixth album. Now I feel weird about saying it.

When you mentioned it was hard to say, I was like, no, it's not. And now I'm like, sixth. Yeah. No, no, I've jinxed you. You can't do it anymore. Oh, God. Where do you want to go from there? I was going to just go straight to the Wednesday, but I'm like, should we do the Yule?

Because it's maybe also more a beat. Like, what do you think? We could go to the Yule. You know, the thing that's interesting about the Yule is kind of like the Little Sims, at least to me, to my years, was a huge left turn for Yule. Interesting. Did you not think that? Well, I might have the benefit of spending a lot of time with the album.

Okay. Which I do feel like is a, you're right. I do feel like the album is a turn for her. Not a huge turn, but like an expansion of what she's been doing. So the song in this case is a song called Doodoo. And I just, every time I listen to a new album or get sort of a stream of an album that's coming out, kind of like clockwork, there's always a song that I become immediately obsessed with. And this was a song that as soon as I heard it, I kind of had to replay it and replay it and replay it.

All right. So for some context, we had Eulal on the show back in March, right? And we played the song Skull Crusher from this same album, Evangelical Girl is a Gun. And skull crusher sounds exactly like what you might think it sounds like based on the name, skullcrusher. So we don't normally, you know, we wouldn't normally play something by someone. or a song from the same album like this so soon, but I thought, oh, this is just so wildly different from Skull Crusher. Yeah. But it sounds like maybe the rest of the album sounds more like this. Well, I just feel like, I don't know, Yule is a really interesting artist because I sort of, you know, associate them with like this kind of dark, gothic, breathy kind of like Skull Crusher music.

And they're also an artist who really plays a lot with their voice and presentation and sort of like their virtual selves and digital selves and treats their vocals in really interesting ways. And this song is like Yule in full rock star mode or like even pop star mode. Yeah. Pop star mode. And, you know, their vocals are so kind of raw and like untreated, which is fascinating to hear.

Yeah, usually their voice is really lost in the ether. Yeah. Lost in the mix of what they're doing. And, you know, I do think that this song, it still kind of retains those darker, gothic qualities, you know, the lyrics of this song, like, I'll leave a trace before you forget my face. There's this kind of like ghostly element to it. But it is, you know, that do, do, do, do, like, it's just such an incredible pop, addictive little line that it just like, I don't know. This song really made me feel like I want Yule to get like. chapel roaned. Like I want Yule to blow the heck up. And I do think that this album, it does sound a lot like this song. Like there are skull crusher moments, but there are these kind of bigger pop moves from Yule. And it makes me really excited for, you know, kind of the direction that their entire career is going in and their music is going in. Do you know what do-do-d-U-D-U

means? I tried lots of different languages and couldn't come up with anything. I feel like it's just a reference to that. But do, do, do, do, do, do, do. Yeah, I think it's just a reference to that. But it just feels weird to say it as a song title. Doodoo from Evangelic Girl is a Gun. That album is out now, so everyone should check it out. Hazel, you probably tell your family and friends all about this show all the time, right?

No. No? Well, you should. You know, you could share with them if you like. You should say, hey, listen to the show. No, they already listen. They already listen in love. Well, that's great because, you know, if people who listen to the show love it or even kind of like it, they can pass it on to a friend, share it with a friend, tell people about it.

It's free. Also, you can write a little review in Apple or Spotify or wherever you listen to the show. Let everyone know how great it is. All right, we've got more music and big questions on the way. But first, a quick reminder that we're celebrating the 25th anniversary of the show by looking back at our number one songs from across the years. We've been closing every episode with a different year this week. We're up to 2014. That's with Stephen Thompson. That's a little bit later on the show. And then as always, we will end with your weekly reset. But let's get to that whole guitar rock thing. Honestly, I don't even

know where we are with straight up guitar rock anymore. On the one hand, I hear stuff that's come out in like maybe the last five years, maybe even say maybe last 10 years. And I think, wow, You know, it's never been better. It's alive and well and incredible. But really, guitar rock just isn't the juggernaut that it used to be. No, I don't think so. But I also think, I don't know. I think a certain strain of guitar rock exists,

but I just think that people's references are different these days. I don't know. Like, I think of artists like McGee, who I've played on the show before. Oh, yeah, M-T-G-E-E, Mickey. Yeah. Yeah. And I think of, like, artists like Alex G. who I think I've played on the show before,

and M.J. Lenderman, and, like, I don't know, the references for guitar music that they're pulling from are so varied and different. Like, MJ's really inspired by country, and McGee's really inspired by, like, 80 soft rock, and Alex G's really inspired by, like, slacker rock. So I think, like, guitar rock exists. It's just, it's not, like, what it was in, say, like,

the early 2010s, basically. Yeah, maybe. the vision of it isn't as narrowly focused as it used to be. It certainly doesn't dominate the charts like it used to. I mean, like big stadium shows. Like, I mean, that just, you'd be all the big rock shows that would come through town. But there is one artist who I think's been kind of carrying the torch for very old school, classic, vintage, riff rock, guitar rock, Ty Siegel. I have loved him for so long now. Incredibly prolific artist. I couldn't get a clear count on how many albums he's released. by some counts, maybe 16 since 2008.

But I actually, there were all these cassette releases before that. I started counting and I got up to about 40 albums under various names from him since 2008. Don't quote me on that. I don't know how accurate that is, but it's a lot. He's got a new album now is called Possession. And the song I want to play from it is called Shining. You know, Hazel, one of the things you miss by being in New York while I'm in D.C. when we record these shows is that you don't get to see me air guitar.

And I don't know. I'm told it's pretty cool. My kids tell me that anyway whenever they have to watch me do it. They tell you that. They say, Dad, that's so cool. Oh, my God. Keep going. Keep air guitar some more, Dad.

Yeah. Oh, my God. So I did this thing that I always do with songs like this, where I'm just rocking so hard to it. I'm not really paying attention to any of the lyrics or any thing. And then when I went back and started digging into the lyrics, I thought, oh, my gosh, this song is full of all these double entendres and metaphors. And it's all about sex and it's super juvenile and, you know, and I asked Ty Siegel about it. I, you know, like, how'd you come to write this song?

He said, how dare you? He's like, why are you? What's going on in this song? You know, he wrote, he wrote the song and worked on the album overall with this collaborator he's worked with before. Matt Yoka. And they both said that really the song's just about cars, man. Sure. And Little Red Corvette is also just about a car. I won't be tricked again by pop music. Well, Matt Yoka says that he was reading a book about cars and he was really taken with the language and the rhythm of the language and everything used in it.

like drop top, platinum-plated opera window. So he started sending all these little phrases to Ty Siegel, who then built on them and they ended up with the song that Ty Siegel says is really just a love song about the shiny things that we fall in love with, particularly our cars and possessions. Sure, I'll allow it. I don't know.

He says it's also a bit of a send-up. So, you know, I think they're being a bit ironic in it. But I love it. Well, just the idea of this song being a potential send-up changes the way that I listen to it. And like hearing that it was inspired by, you know, the language that car companies use to describe their own cars, which I do think purposefully blurs the line between like sex and advertising and you're buying a car, but what are you really buying?

And I was just curious. Like I don't, I've never, I have no interest in cars and I hate driving. It scares me. Yeah. So I was just curious. Have you ever seen Ty Siegel live? I haven't. Oh, my God.

One of the best live shows I've ever seen. He will crowd surf while playing his guitar. I love that. And soloing his guitar. You know, he's on his back, soloing. And at one show, he managed to stand at like kind of clamber to his feet. So he's standing on the crowd, on all the hands that are flattened and holding him up. So he's standing on the crowd soloing.

It was incredible. One of the best live shows. And he's just like shredding. Highly recommend seeing, when you go out to your rock show, shows, Hazel, get Ty Siegel on your list because... Okay, I have to add it to the list. He's amazing. What else you got?

I want to play a song from a band that, to me, really rocks out very hard. Like, I think of them as one of the great rising rock bands. But this song, in particular, a new single from them, is not a big rock banger, but it's such a beautiful song. I want to play the song Elder Berry Wine by the band Wednesday. So when we think of the big question Heard that voice in a long time Had to Jake back

It gets a long just fine Because I'm saying it's more So when we think of the big questions on this week's show This is one of those songs That digs a lot into love and relationships And, you know, Ask some questions about How we find balance in relationships

So that, you know, It doesn't all fall apart. Yeah, yeah. The lead singer of Wednesday, Carly Hartsman, talked about this song and the idea of, you know, Elder Berry is known as this, like, healing fruit that you can put in tonics and things. And then she related a story in a press release about her sister ingesting it raw and making her throw up. So basically, the song kind of plays with this idea of, like, you know, if you don't really create the right conditions for love to blossom in a relationship. and sort of take care of that love. You're going to barf?

You're going to, yeah, you're going to turn champagne into something that can make you sick. And yeah, I just think the song is so beautiful coming from this band. I mean, Wednesday, I've been a huge fan of them for a minute now. Their album, Ratsaw God, was, you know, my favorite album of 2023. And they're a group that, you know, they can make this, like, noisy, shoe-gazy, country rock, and then they can make songs like this. which is so sweet and, you know, a little bit more classically country or Americana. And it's just great to hear Carly in this mode and singing about a subject like this in such a nuanced way.

Yeah, I really don't think that I would have clocked that the metaphor of elderberry wine in this case, if I hadn't read that quote from her about it, the idea that, oh, well, you know, if you just take the berries, you're going to barf. But if you get it just right, it can be really sweet. Like, I would not have clocked that at all. So Elderberry Wine, just a one-off single for now from the band Wednesday. All right, we've got our 25th anniversary look back at our number one songs from 2014. Also, your weekly reset. All that's coming up.

But Hazel, you've got one more cut, I think, that you want to play. And it's another one that gets into those big questions around love and relationships and finding the right balance. Yeah, it's a new cut from the act nourished by time, who I'm a big fan of a lot of people. on our team are huge fans of the project by Marcus Brown. And the song I want to play is called Max Potential. I was prepared to talk about what a

blind spot this band is for me. I don't know, but it was kind of winning me over. listening to this again. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. I mean, the thing that I love about this song and also nourished by time in general is Marcus Brown just has such a way of singing about his own devastating, heartbreaking circumstances in a way that's filled with such kind of resilience or not hope. Hope isn't the word. I think resilience is the word that I'm looking for where his music is kind of like this Russian nesting doll of sadness sometimes. Oh, look, more sadness.

I'm like, I think what I'm trying to say is that like nourished by times music, I really hear kind of like the weight of the world in his voice and in his songwriting. And it's like there's the things that he's going through as an individual, like in this case, you know, heartbreak. But there's the sense that there are these larger world forces. Like, I just love the line in the song where he's like, if I'm going to go insane, like, at least I'm loved by you. And if my heart should burst or break, it was overdue. It's like, aren't we all going a little insane a little bit?

I don't know. I don't know. Every day. I don't know. I just like, it really is, there's just something about his delivery and his sound, which is very much, like, rooted in 80s R&B. but it's like kind of a left of center, 80s R&B. It's a little weird and wonky and... Yeah.

I think I said this the last time we talked about, nourished by time. And that is that there is a kind of wobbly wooziness that I like. I mean, I really dig that vibe. I really like the lyrics in the song. I love the stuff that he's thinking about and how he puts it. But it always feels out of tune to me, maybe intentionally out of tune.

And we'll go ahead. Well, I was just going to say, I think, I feel like we talked about this before with a few other artists. I think that kind of out of tuneness or sort of like distance in music, I just think that it's very in vogue right now. I'm on artists. Like even if they are working in genres or using very explicit references in their music, it's always sort of like a step to the left in like a way that I could see it be. off-putting or like too distancing to a lot of listeners. Well, it would be interesting to see where he goes with this. I think that maybe it is just the wooziness and this being an all a little off and kind of

out of tune, but there's something in the music that has always made me squirm a little bit. Like I can never quite relax. Like, I don't know, almost unnerving in a way. And I don't know. Maybe it's just that I'm not, I just don't understand it. I don't know. Well, there's an album coming out. It's this song is off an album called The Passionate Ones, which is actually coming out in June.

So you can spend more time. It feels like a real opportunity maybe there for me. All right. Thanks so much, Hazel. Always a good hang. Thanks for having me, Robin. All right, let's get to our ongoing 25th anniversary stuff. Looking back at the songs that defined all songs considered over the years, Stephen Thompson.

Back to talk about 2014, the songs of 2014. Hey, Stephen. Thanks for having me, Robin. You know, we're up to 2014, and one of the things that we've been doing along the way as we look back at each year is we've been trying to stump the chump. We've been playing a song for each other and seeing if the other person can remember it. In this case, I'm willing to guess what you're going to pick. I think I already know what it's going to be. I bet you do.

Do you want to hit it and I'll tell you if I'm right, or do you want me to do it for you? Tell you what. You will say what it is as I'm pushing play. Right. Three. One. Oh. this is radio steven when you go one two three

no i'm gonna count to 15 what's wrong all right well wait three two two one coffee by sylvanesso it's a dance we know the moor the bow the dip the wood though the words are true the state is all new in your i feel it but in your So this was from their self-titled album, 2014. Was this their debut as well? This was their debut album. Who has a song like this?

Right out the gate. We talk about this sometimes where an artist will put out, will kind of come out of the gates with a perfect song. Right. And then you're like, well, I don't need to hear anything else. Yeah. And then the band or the artist, the musician, spends the entire rest of their career trying to match the dizzying high of their one perfect song.

Right. So Vanessa just kept putting out a moment. amazing songs and amazing albums continues to be, I'm ready for another Sylvan Esso record any day now. Amelia Meath and Nick Sanborn have gone on to work with a lot of other artists. They built it like kind of a home studio where they've become a hub of this whole scene of other fantastic musicians in North Carolina. So they've continued to just be vital forces in the world of music. But my God, this first song out of the gate, this was one of those songs, I could play that song. for anyone.

Yeah. And they'd be like, oh, this is my new favorite. Yeah. This is my new favorite song. I'll never, easiest pick maybe of any year we've talked about. We've talked about South by Southwest a lot on these years as we've looked back at our favorite songs because we've had so many memorable moments at South by related to these

artists. And I'll never forget seeing Sylvan Esso after the song came out, but it hadn't quite taken off yet. And people still weren't really sure who Sylvan Esso was. And it was this little itty-bitty venue. they came, they were a little late. It was just the two of them. And they came in carting all their gear with them,

including a table, like a folding table to set it all on. And they're kind of working their way through the crowd to get to where they needed to be to perform. And I mean, my how things have changed for that band. And they ended up playing one of our showcases years later. Yeah. Incredible band. Incredible song. Incredible people, too.

Oh, and two of the nicest people in the music business. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, let's see if you can figure out. what this song is. This is my pick for 2014. I've seen Jesus play with flames in a lake of fire. Oh, is this Sturgle Simpson? Yeah.

Is this like turtles all the way down? Turtles all the way down. Met the devil in Seattle. Spit nine months inside the lion's den. Met booty yet another time. He showed me going

my cliffin. But I swear that God was there. From the time I go to the eyes with my best friend, says my son it's all been done someday. From Meta Modern Sounds and Country Music, this song and this whole album is, I mean, well, Meta Modern Sounds and Country Music, you know, this was one of those songs that I also got very deep into

and just started, you know, like, wow, it's so existential, and there's so many questions about what it means to be a human being on this planet and it's, you know, it's cosmic. And then he came in for a tiny desk and I tried to talk with him about it. And he said, it's just about drinking and doing drugs. So it's so cold. Just like one of the most kind of expansive minds in music. Yeah, really.

Just like somebody who you never know what you're going to get from one album to another. You know, he's had these albums of like kind of bluegrass and like really stripped down roots music. But then he had an album that was like all this like Zizi top style, like the big guitar rock that was like the soundtrack to a piece of anime. Yeah. He's such a searcher. He's, he loves to Zig when you think he's going to Zag. But, you know, just like a seeker. Yeah.

And I love a musical seeker. Yeah, super chill dude too. And this song and this whole album has, I know you love classic country music. And this just has such, it's like right out of 70s, you know. We're country and singer-songwriterly music, kind of moral canyon pop music, kind of all coexist in this world of just like plain spoken, really deeply catchy music. Yeah. Love it.

Yeah. But until next time, Stephen, when we look at 2015, thanks as always. Thank you. And for NPR music, I'm Robin Hilton. It's All Songs Considered.