NPR Music - New Music Friday: The best albums out August 9

Episode Date: August 9, 2024

NPR Music's Daoud Tyler-Ameen and Ann Powers survey the new albums out August 9, ranging from Ravyn Lenae's focused R&B to King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard's scuzzed-up glam-rock and an elegant solo piano album recorded by Japanese pop star and composer Ryuichi Sakamoto just months before his death in 2023. Plus: A new album made by 39-year-old American bassist esperanza spalding and 81-year-old Brazilian singer Milton Nascimento leads to a discussion of collaborations across generations.Featured Albums:• Ravyn Lenae, Bird's Eye• Beabadoobee, This Is How Tomorrow Moves• King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard, Flight b741• Latto, Sugar Honey Iced Tea• Ryuichi Sakamoto, Opus• Oso Oso, Life Till Bones• Thee Marloes, Perak• Milton Nascimento & esperanza spalding, Milton + esperanzaLinks: • Sidney Madden's interview with Latto from season 2 of Louder Than A Riot• Ann Powers reviews Zach Bryan's Springsteen-mythologizing album The Great American Bar Scene• Watch a Tiny Desk (Home) concert by Milton Nascimento and esperanza spalding recorded in Nascimento's living room in Rio de Janeiro See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

Just a quick heads up, this podcast contains explicit language. So, Anna, a lot's happened already this week. Chief amongst them, in my mind, a tweet discovered from a presumptive vice presidential candidate advising his daughter on the importance of good speaker wire in setting up a quality high-fi at home. Tim Walsh, dad rock king. We got him now. He's on the public stage, and we're endlessly debating. Is he truly like an indie rock fan in his heart or is his fealty to Bob Seeger? He's right on the cusp, you know, age-wise and geography-wise.

I mean, we know he also declared a certain highway, I think, in Minnesota to be Prince's highway. So all I can say is whatever your political leanings and whether or not we ever truly solve the mystery of whether Tim Wals and Beto O'Rourke went to see. What is it? A Husker-Doo show together? Which I don't think was even physically possible. Maybe it was a hold-steady show. The rumors are flying, but all I can say is music is back in the game right now in the campaign on every side, in every direction. And I think that's exciting. I mean, time will tell whether he's more replacements aligned or Husker-Doo-A-Line.

I guess his name is Tim. So maybe it's replacements by default. Anyway, it's New Music Friday from NPR Music. here to talk about the best and most discussion-worthy music coming out today, August 9th. I'm Dajud Tyler Rameen here with critic and correspondent Anne Powers. Back again. Hi, Ann, nice to see you. Hello, Daoud. Later on today's show, we will be talking about the very specific chemistry involved when artists from different generations team up in the studio, inspired by a very warm-hearted new album from Milton Nassimento and Esperanza Spalding.

But first, there's a whole bunch of interesting new records sitting on our decks this week, and do little time. So let's get right to it. Anne, would you do the honors and start us off? Well, David, I'm really excited about the return of one of my favorite young R&B artists. Her name's Léin-Leney. She's back with her second album, Bird's Eye. And here's a song that really made an impression on me from that album. It's called Love is Blind. I got into the Chicago artist's sound. when she released hypnosis, which is a great example of kind of psychedelic, trippy, super vibeer R&B. On this record, she tightens her sound, I think, a little bit.

It goes a little more pop. She's working with, mostly with the producer named DJ Dahi, who's also worked with people like Kendrick Lamar, just tons of people. And what I heard here, Daoud, was kind of this sort of movement toward a different form, a different attention to hooks and, courses and that while still Raven LeMay is retaining what one critic described as her genius for melody and her kind of vulnerable soulfulness in terms of the lyrics. Yeah. I hear in this record an artist who is confident enough in her sound that she has decided to sort of shrink it and see if it holes up. Well said. Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. There's a strange sort of like over and over,

I felt like I was hearing a recognizable song form, a recognizable kind of pop presence, but everything felt sort of miniaturized and kind of distilled to an essence. I think I wrote down, it's like, this sound, it sounds like I'm listening to this from inside of a polypocket. Wow, that makes me think of Tierra Wack, but where's the Tierra Wack collab then, Raven Leney. But seriously, I think that's insightful. And maybe that's what I mean. what you're seeing as a kind of a shrinkage, I'm seeing as a kind of a polishing or a crafting.

And those things aren't contradictory. And in the ongoing battle, Game of Thrones-style battle between vibe and song, I think Raven LeMay has found a middle ground. She's walking right down the middle of that battlefield. And I really like that. Totally. She uses Childish Gambino in an awesome way on this record, too. I know. I've not heard him sounding that sincere in quite a while. I know. There's also a feature with Thai dollar sign, but I totally agree about childish Gambino, and all I have to say is Mr. Donald Clever, you're sick of R&B? Well, do more to collapse

like this, because maybe you'll get to suck back in. Yeah. Yeah. So that's Raven Linnae, and the album is called Birdseye. I am going to take us next to Be Badooby. and the new album, This is How Tomorrow Moves. This is her third album, although she was real hot with, you know, EPs and, you know, Lucy's and stuff like that.

She's been of presence for a while. She's still quite young. But this is her third studio album. Her first with Rick Rubin. I know. I saw that was kind of crazy. I know. I was surprised. Rick Rubin, somebody who I think we're going to be talking about a little bit later on the show. But alongside Jacob Budgin, her year.

usual producer. And the thing that I think I've locked into about Bibadubi, who is 24 years old, born in 2000, is that she feels really connected to the acoustic pop from basically the time at which she was born. Not the time of her actual youth, but that sort of turn of the millennium. Like I listen to this song, Take a Bite, I hear Michelle Branch. I hear Song of the Year. I hear Song of the year winner Sean Colvin, if you remember Sunny came home. How about Natalie and Brulia? You got a little Natalie and Brulia in there? Natalie and Brulia is there.

Maybe even a little bit of incubus guitar. I don't know. Maybe that's a stretch. That's so interesting that you hear that in this record because what I hear is, well, I heard two different kind of reference points. And again, like, you know, talking about music shouldn't just be about, oh, this artist sounds like that artist. But with an artist like Biba Doobie, I think there is a desire, I have a desire.

I have a desire to kind of locate the voice, you know, and figure out what her influences are. But I hear two different things, and neither of them are what you heard. So I don't know what that means. On the more up-tempo stuff, the more rock stuff, I hear kind of a deal sisters, you know, tone. I mean, the music isn't really like the breeders, but just the vocal tone. But then she also reminds me, her singing and the arrangements also remind me a bit of, like, classic 60s pop, almost even like Petula Clark or something like that. There's a, there's a lightness and just a flute-like quality to her voice that really invokes the pop ingenues of the swinging 60s for me.

Yeah, it's not a full-throated thing she's doing. There's a lot of air in there. Yeah, perfect duet partner for Levy. Of course, she did have a huge hit collaborating with that young jazz star. But here she steps out, and it's not really a jazzy album at all. I mean, it does. It does, To me, it has a really beautiful classic pop sound. Yeah. The thing that I read about this in terms of the production is that she had some arranged demos, ideas for instrumentation. And the thing that Rick Rubin asked her to do was, that's cool. Put those aside for a minute.

Relearn all of these songs just on voice and acoustic guitar. And let's start from there. That's so Rick Rubin, that's like, you know. And wear a robe and meditate while you do it. No, it's that kind of inconvenience as inspiration thing. Writing down the bones. He's such a creativity unlocker. Yeah, no.

I mean, it's just, it's cool to hear her, you know, stretching out this way. For somebody who, like, started off as, like, a TikTok famous, you know, teenager and made their way to the Ares tour. Yeah, she's definitely got some juice. I'm glad you did invoke Taylor, because for all the reference points we can make, I've been thinking a lot about how We think of Taylor Swift as a cultural phenomenon, but she is so influential on these young singer-songwriters. It's just impossible to not hear, feel that imprint. How could you not be? It's like the Matrix. It's like once the Matrix exists, you're either making a movie that's like the Matrix or you're defining yourself in opposition to the Matrix. And it's kind of the same thing. Exactly. And we're all plugged into Taylor Swift. It's like sitting in a vat of something plugged into her consciousness.

This is how Tomorrow moves by Biba Doobie. Anne, I'm ready to get trippy. Onward. So take me there. Well, here's a band I don't think is influenced by Taylor Slend. But who knows? Who knows, really? Who knows with King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard?

Because this Australian psych rock band has made, I think this is their 26th album. And, you know, a ton of them are like wild science fiction-y concept albums. They're just, you know, they sort of split the difference between jam band and Prague band. And, you know, there are many things at once. But this album, which is called Flight B-741, is ostensibly not a concept album. It's just them having fun, sharing vocals, jamming out. At the same time, there are some themes on the album that really stand out, kind of like inner journeys, skepticism about spirituality and religion, but interest in it, life on the road.

as a rock band. But let's listen to a little bit of field of vision, which is one of those songs about, like, religion, spirituality. I would have to admit, I jam out to this. I think King Gizzard is a very fun band. And this record reminds me, it's supposedly inspired by the band, as well as early Steve Miller band,

but I really hear kind of the glam-pop sound of classic bands like Slade or the sweet. Maybe a little bit stones, not so much in the vocal deliver. but I think I'm hearing it most in the drums, that is banging out those quarter notes is it feels like it's got a very Charlie Watts kind of feel to it. Oh, yeah, I feel that.

I mean, it's definitely an English rock, you know, shaggy mullet sound, and Ambrose-Kennie Smith's harmonica really stands out, and it just made me feel like, where is the harmonica today? Why do we not have as much harmonica as we need in 2024? We need more. That's fair.

Yeah, we've had a saxophone renaissance about 10 years ago when, you know, whatever. Like, we had M83's Midnight City and like the year of, you know, the debut of tune yards and all the rest of that. Yeah, bring it back. We had the flute era for a while with Lizzo and all the flute players. So now I think it's the moment for the harmonica to come back. Make it happen. So thank you, King Gizzard and Lizard Wizard for Flight B-741 and the wonderful harmonica sounds you're bringing to us. Okay, up next Lotto with a new record called Sugar Honey Ice Tea.

Before I even get into the music, I have to say, if you have not read it, our colleague Sidney Madden did an amazing interview with Lotto last year as part of the second season of Latter Than a Riot. Lotto is featured on an episode of that podcast, but on NPR.org is an extended interview, and it's just awesome because apart from getting into, I mean, some of the more unsavory parts of her experience, some of the weird, like, sexism and harassment that she's experienced, she really got into basically, like, making the case for her sexually explicit lyrics and content as just sort of true to life. There's all of this chatter all the time in hip hop about authenticity, and the currency for that authenticity is often via some kind of connection

to the street. But the thing that she was saying was just like, you know, this was my life. You know, I went through puberty and I just started experiencing, you know, desire and relationships and all of this stuff in different ways. And that's what I wanted to write about. And it, like, you know, my dad wasn't super happy about it at first, but, you know, he came around eventually. I want to say, before we go on, massive congrats to Sidney Mad and Rodney Carmichael on the whole louder than a riot team for just winning journalists of the year at the National Association of Black Journalists Conference. So, right on, right on for them. No, applause. But what you're saying, doubt, is really interesting because I always have this Beyonce line echoing in my head.

You know, a diva is a female definition of a hustler. And really what you're saying, Lado's talking about in that interview and on this album is how women rappers can translate the stance, the style, the literary approach of male wrappers to women's experience. And it's through this lens of desire, pleasure, sexuality, but also sexiness as a transactional element and as a commodity in a sense. And I think one thing I like about Lotto is she's so masterful. She's great at doing just poppy stuff. She's got amazing flow. She can battle rap.

But that's what allows her to take control of this subject, you know, and really deploy it well. You make it hard to talk about you. Like what I see So I'm working my move You give me butterflies You the one for the mother guys At this start I told a couple lies But after that I'm really tried

And lest anybody You know, come for her on the technique This song Big Mama is really her Like kind of stunting and showing off And showing that she can do multiple flows It starts off She's basically doing a Drake flow And she's kind of killing it

Like it's a really like You know kind of skillful I don't want to say imitation, but evocation, basically, of his style. And then there's this crazy beat switch in the middle, and she goes into more of a kind of Southern trap kind of sound. And that kind of seems like more where this album is situated. She has been stretching out a little bit and trying some, you know, some very savvy, I would say, collabs that sort of go across style and region. She had, you know, her song with Cardi B, put it on the floor. She linked up with John

Dunkuk from BTS for Seven. Right, right. And this record really seems like it's about her, about herself, about her family, about her upbringing, and about her roots. You listen to the production. It's very Southern. It's very Atlanta. She just kind of, you know, wants to remind you what time it is. That's Sugar Honey Ice Tea from Lotto.

We need to take a quick break. We'll be back with more new music Friday right after this. Hey, we're back. All right, Anne, what's next? Well, I want to take us to a very different place sonically and mood-wise with the new and the last album by Ruiichi Sakamoto. It's called Opis. Let's listen to a little bit of the song he wrote for Bernardo Bertilucci. It's called B.B. So this record was recorded just a few months before the great Japanese composer, musician Riuichi Sakamoto, died of cancer in March of 2023. and it's the soundtrack to a film that his son, Neosora, made.

And I don't know if you, are you like a Criterion Channel kind of guy? I just got, I finally gave in this year and became a Criterion Channel subscriber. I think it was mostly because I heard you and Hazel talking about it. I was like, man, that sounds like fun. Shout out to Hazel Sills. It's the only streaming service that doesn't feel me with anxiety when I see the front page. Well, okay, so the first thing you have to do is go watch Jacques Tatis Playtime. haven't watched that because you now have Criterion Channel. And then go watch all the Bergman movies,

but then watch the film Opus. And then if you don't have access listeners to Criterion Channel, just listen to this beautiful record. The kind of frame or context is Sakamoto is dying and he knows he's dying. He sits at a piano in a totally empty room aside from the piano and some microphones and things, and he plays these extremely spare kind of Eric Sati-like renditions of many of his older songs, you know, the beautiful theme that we all know from Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence, the film, Yellow Magic Orchestra songs, other songs from throughout his career. And it's just exquisite, and you can just feel the intentionality, the vulnerability in this performance. It's just Oh, man. The clarity, the timing, the resonance is so deep on this record.

I felt listening to this record kind of the same thing that I felt listening to 12, the album that came out just before his death, which is basically that, like, I could not separate it from the idea of mourning. Yes, for sure. Everything about it felt so mournful. And I was like, would I think that if I had no unful? understanding of the context in which this music was made. Yeah. I kind of think I would. I kind of think it's woven into the fabric of it somehow. That's so interesting. That makes me want to compare it or put it on my shelf next to David Bowie's Black Star,

right? Which is another record that, you know, Bowie and Sakamoto, friends, collaborators. But those records are so different, too. And I think at risk of, you know, as an American white person making a comment about Japanese society or culture or artistry, I just have to say that there's a kind of restraint on this record that feels very Japanese to me. In terms of this like facing death or mourning, there's no drama. You know, no drama whatsoever, except for maybe the drama in his fingers, you know, that's very, it's just about can my fingers move to make these very spare melodies.

Gosh, now you've got me thinking about all of the different pieces of art that were made under these very intense circumstances. Like Akira Kurosawa's Dreams is a movie that I've seen a lot. I don't think when I first saw it that I had an understanding that he was sort of creating his own eulogy, basically. Right, exactly. No, it's a rare thing and something. to treasure. I also think of Warren Zevon's last album, The Wind, which he also made, as he was dying of cancer, very different, you know, very much more sort of more in the dramatic camp. But I think there's something to treasure about these glimpses into the final days of these great artists, not to mention just understanding these songs in a different way as they are stripped to

their essence. That's opus by the late Riuichi Sakamoto. I'm going to take us to a slightly pepier place, although it is an emo band. So, you know, baby steps. Let's listen to Life Till Bones, the new album from Oso Oso. This song is called All of My Love. So this is a band that I'm still getting my head around. I was alerted to their presence in 2019 because of a song, an album, also by this name, but the song in particular, called Basking in the Glow, which is, still just one of the stickiest, catchiest songs I think I've ever heard. It is one of those things where you listen through an intro and a verse and a pre-chorus and a chorus and a chorus and a post-chorus. And if with a gun to your head, if you were told to identify the hook, you maybe couldn't

not because there isn't one, but because there are so many things that could qualify. It's just like, it's melodies on melodies. It's all of these little things that are really sort of tightly just locked together. They mesh so well, including the voice of the lead singer, songwriter, sole consistent member of this band, Jade Lillitri, who is from Long Beach, New York, Long Island, and to me, is doing a version of emo that feels a little bit homegrown? It's kind of distinct from the essence of emo that I think of as this sort of twinkly, you know, Midwestern thing. It's not quite that. It's not the sort of spikier, you know, Blink 182 style pop punk

from, you know, California or whatever. It's not the New Jersey goth opus, you know, my chemical romance type thing. It's kind of its own thing. It feels really, you know, made with with kind of duct tape and rivets in a, you know, in a shed or a basement somewhere. I'm trying to think of what like a Long Island sound would be that I'm kind of coming up blank. All I'm thinking about is gray gardens, which probably isn't relevant. Well, I mean, the thing that it actually does evoke for me a little bit is that there's a lot of that early 2000s blog rock to use a, I mean, what a weird signifier. It's not really like a genre name that I like to throw around because it doesn't totally mean anything. But you do sort of know it when you hear it. And there were a lot of bands from the New York

area in the early 2000s who were just sort of making their way towards a kind of boutique version of fame and visibility that I feel like this artist has listened to a lot. I can't remember any of the names of those bands. I'm sorry to say, deleted from my mind, the way that so many blogs have been deleted from the internet. From existence, I know. So anyway, all of my love is a great example of what Osso-O-O-O-So does. It's got these accented off-beats. The guitar. really kind of interlock with each other. The verses are very stripped back, just the kick and snare,

and then the chorus is super driving. It's pretty textbook if you're looking to dive in. That's Life Till Bones by Oso Oso, and you've got one more. Yeah, well, speaking of new artists mining past sounds, I'm completely in love with this album, Parac by The Marlowe's. I just completely stumbled on this band. They're actually from Surabaya Indonesia. They were founded by the guitarist, Sinatra Daraqa.

And it's just him and a drummer, Tommy Satwick, and this amazing singer, Natasia Chanturi. I love her voice. It's just like, oh, it's just so buttery, honeyish, sunlight in the afternoon. It's just gorgeous. One of those voices that kind of feels like it has existed for much longer than the singer has been alive. Do you know what I mean? Totally, totally. Apparently she was like a pop singer, and Duraka discovered her or, you know,

enlisted her for this project, which really is much more about sort of combining the sweetness and luminosity of Indonesian pop, which I don't know if you've ever listened to, but it's very emotional and sweet. And combining that with kind of classic Philly soul sound or lover's rock, you know, that northern soul sound. that is so much about these dulcite women's voices, you know, and that's kind of wah-wa guitar that runs throughout these songs. The songs are both in English and in Indonesian,

and I think it's really interesting how the Indonesian language works with this style of music, too, like in this song, Logica. So, you know, can you hear it? It's wild how that language just works perfectly. It just makes me think of, like, silly games. You know that song by Janet Kay that was featured in the Steve McQueen film, Lovers Rock, that perfect Lovers Rock song. It reminds me of that from 1979. And yet it's in Indonesian. I think that's so cool. Yeah, I'd love to see them link up with like a hip-hop producer.

I'm thinking about the way that the relationship that Ninth Wonder has with Hiatus Coyote, where he's like, you're my friends, but also like your music exists for me to sample. And this feels like... That's cool. That's such a great idea. It feels like the kind of thing that, you know, like a person like Ninth Wonder, like, you know, DJ Shadow, you know, would be overjoyed to discover something like this while crate digging. I love that you compare them to Hiatus Coyote. Another band from the other side of the globe, from us, where we are, who I just recently saw, they were incredible.

Although I think I got COVID at that show, but we won't talk about that. but no, that expansive sound hiatus Coyote has would be an interesting direction for The Marlowe's to go in. The songs on this record are fairly contained and very laid back. I also love this song Not Today, which is a song about like, hey, it's Sunday. I'm not messing with work stuff today. And I think we all could use to listen to that sometime. That's the album Perak by V. Marlowe's real quick before we move on, just a couple more records coming out today. Logic, the nerd king of hip-hop, is back with a very ambitious album called Ultra 85, a sequel to his album, The Incredible True Story from 2015. Big Sean has a new record called

Better Me Than You. Amos Lee, a public radio favorite, has a new record called Transmissions. And Jay Balvin, the Prince of Reggaeton, sounding a little bit EDM here, has a new record called Ryo. All right, after the break, the elder legend Milton Nassimeno, the millennial luminary Esperanza Spalding, and a question. When two artists who started their careers decades apart decide to make music together, what are they after? What do you get from this kind of collaboration that you can't get anywhere else? That's coming up after this. Welcome back to New Music Friday.

I'm Daud Tyler Amin, here with Anne Powers. We've been talking about the albums coming out today, August 9th. And what you're hearing right now are the voices of two artists who, each for their own reasons, might not have thought a project like this was possible before they started work on it a year or two ago. I'm talking about Milton Nassimento, the Brazilian singer whose nickname in his home country is literally the voice of God. And Esperanza Spalding, the American bassist singer and composer, who famously, snatch the best new artist Grammy that Justin Bieber fans were counting on in 2011 and has spent the past two decades chasing her muse all over the genre map.

Their new collaborative album is simply called Milton and Esperanza. And it got us thinking about a notable, if inconsistent tradition in music, the intergenerational collab. Spalding is 39, Nassimento is 81. It's one of those projects that doesn't just happen. Someone really has to care for them to come together. And then when they are, the contrast between their voices and their experience really becomes part of the text of the music they're making.

There are so many things like this to talk about. We won't cover them all, not even close. But, Anne, let's start with Milton and Esperanza, because I know you've been keen on both artists for a long time. So what goes through your mind hearing them together like this? Well, basically what goes through my mind or what goes through my heart, I guess, is just the love and joy that I hear on this album. It's not a super tight, super intensely packaged album.

It very much feels like these two friends hanging out and inviting a lot of other friends in for these sessions. And it feels very much like a young, artist who absolutely reveres but also genuinely loves this elder artist, creating the perfect environment for them to be comfortable, to be able to share their voice and the condition that it's in now. You know, Nassimento's voice is, it's still the voice of God, but it's an old God now, you know. So Spalding creates this atmosphere using her, you know, usual collaborators, but also inviting

in a lot of guests, Leon Lehavis, Diane. Reeves. Paul Simon is on a track here. Yeah, Paul Simon's in there singing in Portuguese. So there's a little bit of, you know, that flashy, oh, this is a special gilded frame we're putting around Milton. But the record itself doesn't have the feeling of that gilded frame. It feels very natural to me. And I love it the most when Milton and Esperanza sing together. Just their voices, her voice is still obviously in perfect shape. But she's so delftly. delicately embraces his voice, you know, and it's just a beautiful thing. Yeah, the changes to his voice that are, you know, part of just the natural erosion of age,

they really do feel like an essential part of the texture of these recordings, the difference between their vocal timbers and even their rhythmic articulation. his is a little bit more deliberate. He is in control, but he is, you know, sometimes just a little bit behind the beat in a very controlled way. Well, you know, Dowd, he actually retired from performing a couple of few years ago. So he wasn't retiring from music, he said, but he retired from touring. Everyone knows he's in these, I hate to say it, because I never want to live in a world without Milton Nassavento's voice. But he's in the twilight years of his life. And I love that the record embraces that. And it doesn't embrace it in that, in my opinion, it doesn't embrace it in the same

kind of heavy spotlight way that the album that kind of defined this form of the return of the king or whatever you want to call it, which is, of course, the Rick Rubin-Johnny Cash album came out so many years ago. It doesn't have that heaviness, you know, that stark black and white quality that that album does. Sure, which is, you know, I'm sure in part just due to the temperament of the respective stars at the center of them. But you're right, it seems like Esperanza really wanted to make him as comfortable as possible. They recorded this album at his house. Oh, and we have a tiny desk concert now, right?

We do, yeah. If you want to see what the process is really like, it just looks like the best party ever. Probably like the porch hang after the show what might have been better than the music itself. Absolutely. And I also think the quality of Brazilian music itself. It's just, it's not about melodrama. You know, it's, it's about this totally other relationship to, to drama. It's, the cool of it, but that also has the heat peeking through or flowing through as one thread.

That allows for this kind of environment as well. Yeah, no, it really works. Everybody really seems like they want to be there. I would have loved to have been there. Absolutely. That's someone who, like Esperanza Spalding herself, counts, The Wayne Shorter, Milton Nassimento Collaboration, native dancer is one of the greatest records of all time.

I'm just really happy this exists. Well, let's zoom out a little and talk about some of the history of this kind of cross-generational alliance. And you threw out the bullseye example of Rick Rubin, kind of reinventing Johnny Cash in the 90s with the American Recordings series of albums that he produced. Exactly. These were heavy on covers.

Yeah. A lot of them by contemporary artists. You've got Soundgarden and you two and Nine Inch Nails covers, a Nine Inch Nails song that Johnny Cash kind of owns at this point. I'm sure there's a lot of young people who just sort of think of that as his song. I hurt myself today to see if I still feel. I focus on the pain, the only thing that's real.

I'm kind of curious where that original album and the ones that followed, like where they live in your mind, 30 years later after this, you know, surprising collaboration, do they represent something different to you than they did at the time? Absolutely. I think the Rick Rubin, Johnny Cash collaborations, and then, you know, Rubin went on to work with people like Neil Diamond, and Donovan, you know, that kind of enshrinement of these elder figures really suited the

album era, you know. It was about making monuments, making objects that paid tribute or that allow these artists almost to pay tribute to themselves, which is a weird concept, but it was I think, I mean, part of the subtext here that I think I'm hearing is that this was once a job. I mean, Rubin, in his capacity as both a producer and as a record executive, is part of a system within the industry that felt like it really existed during the album era and during the CD era, especially, where you have people who are doing the specialized work of bringing older artists to younger listeners awareness. And I wonder if part of what I hear you saying is that maybe some of that has started to go away as just a sort of. sort of a baseline expectation. I think it's evolved. I mean, I would say, yeah, the job thing is interesting.

It definitely was a career track, and it definitely brought Rick Rubin as much renown for something different than what his renown relied on before, as brought as much renown to him as it did to Johnny Cash himself, you know? And some other rockers have done similar things. You know, when Jack White collaborated with Loretta Lynn, for example, there was an organic relationship and friendship there, but it still had that feeling of, like, as I said, a monument in a sense, you know, or maybe more like a homespun monument in that case, but still a monument. The word we used when we first started talking about this this week was packaging,

and that feels dead on. Right, and I think that's a thing. I mean, I'm always thinking about how different moments in musical artistry are related to the technologies that are available. And so during that era, when these gorgeous packages still existed, and also, you know, when the music video was still a big thing, right? And so we, I mean, the video of Johnny Cash performing Hurt is just, and Delia's gone, those early singles from the American recordings, is just as important, this, again, like this black and white, vintage, gothic-y feeling. And we're just not in that moment anymore where we're all going to sit down,

and watch a video at the same time unless it's like a meme, you know. And we're also not in a moment where the package, the physical package matters as much. So what I'm seeing in this Esperanza and Milton collaboration feels much more contemporary in that it's about a process over time, you know, between two friends and artists who've worked together for a long time. And I think you can see more examples of that now. And there's kind of a comfort and a casualness almost that was not what you got in the age of enshrinement, if I can call it that. Exactly. This is a different kind of example because it's not about a recording. But Olivia Rodriguez taking the breeders on tour seems like just a totally different. It's not really about enshrinement. There's a ton of like

respect and admiration there. And she is sort of placing herself within that lineage and saying, you know, learned so much from you. But I have to imagine that the genesis of that is you are awesome and I want to hang out with you. Yeah, right. Exactly. And Livia Rodrigo is like the queen, the young queen of doing this, right? Because she's always bringing her favorite elders out on stage with her. She's brought Lily Allen out on stage with her and Natalie and Brulia. She has this ongoing relationship with the Paramore folks, crediting them for an interpolation on one of her songs, but then also just being,

hanging out, like you're saying, hanging out with them. And she's even shared a mic with Billy Joel that was like back to our friend Tim Walls, like the ultimate dad rock moment. Billy Joel, maybe he's more grandpa. Sorry, Billy, for Olivia. But I'm also thinking about Lady Gaga and Tony Bennett. If that's kind of the emblematic elder, protege relationship of the 21st century, that's

carrying us toward what we have with Esperanza and Milton. Because even though it has a bit of that formality and that enshrinement feeling, it also is based on a friendship. And there was so much kind of promoting how they were friends, you know, and they spent all this time together and how meaningful that was the behind. the music is as important as the music itself. Right. The patter feels like the most thrilling part of it.

Those weird little tossed off moments where they're just kind of goofing around together. It's like as much a part of this as the music itself. But back to the technology questioned out. And something you said earlier in our conversation today, which is that young people now have access to any source they want, basically. And so can build these parisocial relationships with their influences, that them can become real relationships when they have a little power. You know, that seems really important.

And, you know, I wonder how you see that play out in, say, the collaboration between floating points and Farrow Sanders, because I feel like there's been this huge revival because of streaming of avant-garde jazz musicians. You know, everyone knows, not everyone, but many people know about Alice Coltrane now. And that Farrow Sanders collab felt like it came out of this revival of these art through streaming through the internet.

It sounds like a backhanded way to talk about it, and I promise that I don't mean it that way. But I think that the developments that we've experienced over the past 15 years or so, the rise of social media, streaming certainly, the death of MTV and sort of culturally central, warehouses of taste like that. And to be a little blunt about it,

the kind of de-glamorization of music as a job, which is like, you know, just to be totally honest, like it just like it does not feel as totally otherworldly as it once did means that the relative distance between these people, I think, is a lot less. And if you're somebody who is just in utter admiration of this person that you think of as just this timeless legend and they're still alive and they're still working, it's not too far-fetched that you might be able to get to them and say, hey, I think you're incredible. so much of my music is, you know, inspired by you and in dialogue with you. And if you have any interest in it, I'd love to do something together. I think there's also, maybe this is related to what

you're talking about, that de-glamorization. There's a different comfort level with these so-called legends, and they are truly legends. But I feel like younger artists feel more comfortable citing their influences than they used to. And I feel like older artists feel more comfortable accepting the collaborations of younger artists. I mean, the classic example would, of course, be Brandy Carlyle and the Bramley, carrying Joni Mitchell or helping, supporting Joni Mitchell's return to the spotlight. But there's also, when he was still with us, the knowledge we now have of how Prince mentored so many younger artists like Janelle Monet and Lizzo, people like that.

Even harkening back to the Trent Rezner, David Bowie relationship, that almost was a precursor. to what's happening now in that I think they truly had so much mutual respect. And it feels just more organic. And this is how we've gotten to the place of, for example, Boy Genius writing a song like Not Strong Enough, which is flat out, you know, an answer song and tribute to Cheryl Crow. And everybody feeling great about it. Nobody feeling weird about it. I mean, the other thing about this is that the exchange kind of flows both ways. Thinking about the relationship between Prince and Janelle Monet, thinking about something that you wrote about recently, Bruce Springsteen and Zach Bryan. Oh, yeah. That's wild that one because they sound like equals on that song. And they

almost sound like the boss sort of seems like he's like, I'll take on your older voice. But it's totally like you can just see them standing in that room together. God knows if they did. Who knows? But I do think that there's, I often have to be reminded that there are people that I think of as sort of immortal icons of eternal cool who went through long periods of their career where they were not thought of that way. Prince himself. Springsteen in the 90s. You know, Prince in the 90s.

I mean, Johnny Cash, like Johnny Cash hadn't had a hit in a minute. Exactly for sure. He was doing like Christian television tours of the Holy Land. That's what he was all about. And so on paper, it's funny. Like, some of these things, they seem like they could be disastrous if they were handled incorrectly. Like Johnny Cash is going to come back and he's going to do like a bunch of grunge songs. What are you talking about? And so it takes a lot of care and familiarity and sort

of understanding of the kind of cool that that person represents. If it's not organic, if it's just like trying to take, you know, trying to take a new haircut and put it on the same person basically. Exactly. Then, yeah, that can that can wind up feeling kind of embarrassing. But All of these things that we're talking about, I think, are really the result of not just admiration, but a real kind of like knowledge and understanding and sort of mutual trust and stewardship of like, I don't know you, but I know enough about you and your art and, you know, and the place that it occupies in the world that I think we can speak the same language. Or I do know you. And, you know, I've taken the time, you've taken the time to create a genuine relationship. across the generations, which is really the most beautiful thing to me. But I would let me ask you one thing because talking about all these different artists,

we've been just name-checking here. And there's lots of other examples like Damon Alburn producing a Bowie Womack record at the end of his life, for example. Katie Crutchfield publicly revering Lucinda Williams and bringing her out on stage a lot and paying tribute to her. But all these different examples, we don't have a ton from. hip-hop. Hip-hop is kind of the elephant in the room in this conversation. Yeah. I mean, I think I think there's a couple of potential reasons why. I think one, hip-hop is still new enough as a form

that some of the templates that exist and have existed for a long time for how an artist in their, you know, 50s, 60s, 70s and beyond even goes about maintaining a career, it just, it doesn't exist in quite the same way. Exactly. True. It just hasn't been tested. Beyond that, you know, there's maybe a little bit more tension in between newcomers and the old guard in hip-hop than there is elsewhere. But part of that is the kind of young man's game of it all, where the distance between,

I mean, basically, you're kind of old sooner in hip-hop than you are in most other styles of music. Yeah, and a lot. And tragically, so many of the. greatest rappers and hip hop artists we love have died relatively young. So that also creates an empty space as far as these collaborations go. It's a really, I mean, it's this thing that I think hip hop is trying to figure out right now. It's our buddy Sheldon Pierce has has written an awful lot about this recently about just sort of how hip hop confronts middle age, how it

cares for its elders or doesn't some of the time. I did ask him about this topic. and Sheldon did throw out that Tyler the creator, getting DJ drama for Call Me If You Get Lost, is sort of an example of a younger artist kind of platforming an elder and kind of reminding people on a grand scale. Like, this is a big part of history that because it existed outside of the traditional legal,

I guess, part of the music industry, it's at risk of disappearing. And so he wanted to do something that was just like totally, you know, it's got all of the gangster grills, you know, drops in there. And people had a mixed reaction to it. But, man, it's like, you know, nothing else that Tyler has made sounds quite like that record. And you had an example you wanted to bring to the Ford that's an upcoming album, too.

That's right. So maybe we should go out on this. Q-Tip and LL Cool J are weird to bring into this discussion because they are basically the same age. That's two men in their mid-50s. But to this ongoing point about how time operates differently in different styles, they exist, I think, in different places in people's minds. They're in different eras of hip-hop. Huteep, I think, exists as this sort of, you know, hip-hop sage to a lot of people, whereas I don't think people really actively think of LL Cool J as an artist anymore. He's sort of, you know, he's an actor, a personality.

He's kind of a permal answer for the Grammys. They love to have him host. But on September 6th, we've got this Q-Tip-produced LL Cool J record coming out called The Force that from the sound of the early singles is something really, really special for both of them. And is LL Cool J sounding more loose and comfortable and confident than I have heard him sound in a very long time? I'm so excited to hear this record, and I feel this is my moment that I have to bring up one of the greatest moments of my life when L.L. Cool J winked at me. Wow.

Backstage at Radio City Music Hall. Okay now. That was a great collaboration. Yeah, you do really, you do really snap down that one. Exactly. Well, look, folks, that'll have to do it for our discussion. But listeners, we'd love to do it. know what kind of impression these collaborations between artists of different eras have made on you.

If you have a favorite example, let us know at all songs at npr.org. We'd love to hear your thoughts. That is it for today's new music Friday. Tune in next week when we'll have new albums to process from Tanishay, Post Malone, Charlie Bliss, and more. In the meantime, you can send your feedback on today's episode to all songs at npr.org. Leave us a review wherever you get your podcasts. Subscribe to our newsletter at npr.org slash music newsletter. Anne writes that and it's wonderful. Thank you. And remember, you can get this show sponsor free and support our work by joining NPR Music. Go to plus.npr.n.org slash NPR Music or search for NPR Music in Apple Podcasts to sign up. Today's episode was produced by Noah Caldwell. Our editor is Jacob Gans. I'm Daiud Tyler Amin.

I'm Ann Powers. Happy listening. See you next week.