NPR Music - Why everyone is still talking about Geese

Episode Date: February 10, 2026

With the arrival of the Geese Tiny Desk, we thought we’d try to break down what it is about this band that has made them one of the most talked about and polarizing acts of the past six months.Host Robin Hilton is joined by NPR Music's Ann Powers and host of The Ringer's Bandsplain podcast Yasi Salek to make sense of all the fuss. (Full disclosure: We all love Geese.)Support the show with a review on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. And tell a friend!Questions, comments, suggestions or feedback of any kind always welcome: [e-mail] pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for sponsorship and to manage your podcast sponsorship preferences.NPR Privacy Policy

It's all songs considered from NPR Music. Of course, you're home for tiny desks, but it's also where you will find Alt Latino. That show goes out into this feed every Wednesday. If you missed it, they just had this really great conversation all about Bad Bunny and what an absolutely incredible run that he has been on, especially following his historic win at the Grammys. And then this week, they're going to have sort of a part two of their ongoing conversation

following his performance at the Super Bowl. host Felix Contreras will be back. He's been out for a while, but he'll be back with Anna Maria Sayre to have that conversation. We've also got new music Friday coming up this week. Our conversations about the best new albums coming out every Friday. I know this week they're going to be talking about the new Charlie X-C-X album Wuthering Heights. That's a big one that's coming out February 13th. Also, Ann Powers. Here I am. In beer music, also home to you and the Plus podcast that you host with Tyler, I mean, deep dives on. on a single song. I know what you're doing this week, by the way. I got the inside line. Landslide. You're not messing around.

That's right. We go all the way. Well, I mentioned tiny desks. We, of course, post a couple of those every week as well on NPR music, including the one that just went up. If you haven't seen it yet, a tiny desk with the band, Geese. That is up and out.

If you don't know geese, and I know there are some people who still don't know this band, And the simple answer is that they're a rock band from Brooklyn. But the longer, more complicated answer is that they are the most talked about, certainly one of the most talked about, most divisive polarizing bands of the past six months. I would say the most divisive and polarizing rock band period of the last six months, if not longer. And that's what we're going to talk about on this episode of All Songs Consider. What it is about this band that is captured everyone's fascinating.

for so long. And Anne, we're not going to do this alone because, you know, something this thorny, you got to bring out the heavy artillery. You got to go up to Valhalla and bring in the gods. Bring in the gods. So we've got Yasi Salak here, Yasi. Thank you for having me.

Do you ever, like, think about, like, what series of choices that you made in your life that, like, you became the go-to phone a friend for the geese, all things. Like, oh, I know who will. I know who we got to get. on the horn. I know, Mike.

Did your heart sink a little bit when you saw my email? You were like, oh no, not again. It's true. It's true. So you host Bandsplain, you host the Bansplaine podcast. Do you want to make a quick, shameless plug for your show? Sure. We explain bands on the Banspland podcast, often at great and excruciating detailed link.

So if you like what you're hearing now in this vocal fry container, there's more for you in the Bandsblan podcast. If you don't, that's so wonderful, and I wish you the best in your life. And I know you and Yossi have done at least a couple episodes together, including the history-making nearly seven-hour two-part discussion about PJ Harvey. And you also talked Kate Bush for a paltry like three hours or something. That was earlier in the show where we hadn't really spread our wings. We hadn't realized what we were capable of. The full potential, just how long you could go.

Well, this is an episode that I thought, honestly, maybe we could have done last fall, late last summer or so, because that's when the band was really starting to blow up. And, you know, their album came out, getting killed, came out like late September, September 26. And then it just very quickly blew up, it felt like. But honestly, the buzz has not stopped. People are not giving up on this band. I kind of thought it would have died down by now. But, like, you go to Reddit threads and stuff like that.

People are still arguing about this band. partly because the Saturday night live performance just really wound everybody up all over again. It's true. I don't think any rock artist compares as far as both acclaim and derision at the same time. People are really weird about this band is all I'm going to say. People are just real weird. There's a cult vibe, but we'll get to them. In both directions, right?

It's like in both ways are lightly off-putting, so I kind of understand maybe why that's the buzz keeps going. because what does this world love more than anything else? Punitive and unending discourse. That should be the tagline for this show, just punitive, unending discourse. We need art that causes us to foam at the mouth at each other. Well, we're going to talk about all of this stuff and try to explain where some of this hate is coming from, where some of the love is coming from.

Some of it I think is very obvious. And then some of it, I think we can go a little deeper on. But I thought we could start with just kind of how we got here, like chart how the band even got to this moment because it's not like they were an overnight success or anything. This is a band that's been around for a decade now. Since they were 13. Yeah.

I mean, they were. They were kids. They were like in middle school. They were very special kids, though. When I say that what I mean is that they are a Brooklyn band, a New York band, children of seasoned New York bohemians. So these kids were destined for our kids. artistry from, you know, preschool. Their parents are writers and artists. I don't know about all of

their parents, but I know Cameron Winter, the singer, his father, I think, is a composer, isn't that right? Yeah, for Sesame Street, I believe did sound design for Sesame Street. Wow. And he owns some sort of music lights, a music company. Right, right. And his mom's a writer. Yeah. But I think of Geese is coming more from almost like an incubator than a scene. And what I mean by that is that to me, they represent a generational shift that we're seeing in rock in a lot of places, but it's not the same as, say, the Meet Me in the Bathroom era of New York music that Lizzie Goodman wrote about in her book of that name when it was like actual artists playing with each other, you know, the yeah, yeah, yeah, and the LCD sound system and the strokes all playing together. It's not that.

This band developed in a very insular way. I mean, they started playing together truly as kids, you know, as teens, young teens. And then they did professionalize very quickly and started making records touring. What is this? Their fourth album, Robin, I think. Fourth, if you count Cameron Winter's solo album. If you count heavy metal, yeah, yeah, yeah. So they've been out there.

Like, for example, they opened for King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard. They've been out there. But really, to me, this is a very Gen Z thing, you know. It's like turnstile isn't like probably a great comp of the complete opposite of this, right? Like comes so much from a scene. Yeah. Played in other hardcore bands. Yeah.

Very rooted in a scene of bands that put on shows and festivals and play in DIY spaces and stuff. One of the major indictments of this band is that they don't come from a scene. It's very, it reminds me of like radio head, like early radio head stuff, which people don't remember. But Radiohead also kind of had a similar trajectory where like they put. played a bunch together as kids, like, kind of precociously talented kids, put together a demo and got signed. Geese had a SoundCloud and got signed. You know, like, it wasn't from, like, pounding the pavement or playing with other bands

or sort of, like, forging an identity that way, like, they are gutting a body of water. You know, I'm pulling really random examples. Right, right, right. The immense talent that takes us by surprise actually was nurtured for a long time. Yeah. They really kind of like came out of Zeus's skull, if you want, you know. And I think, I think that's part of what makes people so uncomfortable is they don't have context for them. And like one of the most major things, particularly for rock music, is people want context. They want a story. They want to know the

Beatles played in Germany for a year, you know, before they got big. They want to know how you earned it. And I feel like people don't feel that. I'm really interested in this like idea that they sprung from the head of Zeus because I want to go back to what you were saying about Radiohead. And Robin, I know you have some thoughts about Geese in relation to Radiohead too because we've talked about it in the past. Radiohead also really made a pivot. They had a hit with Creep, but it was only after that with OK Computer that they became Radiohead as we know them. And I think that's what's interesting about Geese too is that they have these earlier albums, but this is almost like their re-debue or something.

It's like complete relaunch. I mean, honestly, in some ways, there's not a lot about this band that's terribly remarkable. I mean, and I don't mean that they're mediocre or that they're not talented or whatever, but just that the trajectory that they were on, at least up until the moment that they blew up, it was pretty typical.

You know, they put out a couple of albums. Their first one was projector in 2021, and it's interesting. You can listen to it. can hear the roots of some of the things that they were working toward. But mostly it's pretty standard sort of indie rock or art rock. Kind of reminded me at times of AltJ, the band AltJ, like on this song called Low Era. Then 2023, a couple years later, they have 3D country, which was kind of a bonkers record.

Yes, definitely bonkers. And you listen to them, and it's very much just a young band, to me, kind of figuring out their sound, what they want to sound like. Then Cameron drops heavy metal in 2024, and that's kind of like a holy moly moment for people with him. I do think, like, I mean, to my ear, the difference between getting killed in 3D country is, you can tell it's the same band, but it's quite a leap.

It's toothier, right? It doesn't have the edge 3D country. There's like, there's a real, like, sharp, and like edginess to getting killed. And also to my ear, I hear it pulled more towards what Cameron was doing on heavy metal. Like it's almost like perhaps he found his way into the sound and then brought it back to the table for the next Geese album.

I think there's something there, although I also think the band and their producer, Kenny Beats, is that the name of the producing? Yeah, who I think now goes by Kenny Bloom again. Okay, Kenny Bloom. You know, it was the dynamic among all of them in the room that really changed. When I listen to 3D country, it is a wild record,

but there is sort of like this weird ghost of like Americana. I mean, there were countries in there for a reason. They're not an Americana band, but there's like a rootsy-chiglin side to that. That is gone on getting killed. On getting killed, what we have is, A, a lot of the songs, a slower pace, a lot of space and a lot of attention. And both the drive of the drummer, we have to give credit.

Max Bass, an incredible, incredible drama. I mean, he really delivers. And I think in the tiny desk, and Geese's tiny desk, he just shines, like, on some of those tracks. And also the guitarist, Emily Green, really figures out what she's doing on getting killed.

Honestly, she's the most interesting person to watch in the band when it comes to performing live. Like, she gives great. great, great performances and it's so dynamic to watch. But I think, I mean, you're talking about how it's a lot slower the album, getting killed, I think it's all about the build. All of the songs have this long, slow build, and there's always this rewarding drop or this convergence

when all the wild, weird things you've been hearing all suddenly come together, like when he screams, there's a bomb in my car. On Trinidad. But that's also part of the reason why when we think about how did we get here, why this band is the most confounding band on the planet to me is there is nothing about any of this that makes sense to me. I mean, I know why I love it. I like weird, unpredictable stuff, but I don't understand why, like, young people necessarily would latch on to them so hard like they have. I mean, they're not a singles band. They're not really built for TikTok or other spaces where you think of young people discovering music. Maybe that's becoming true of everybody.

I don't know. But I mean, like, if I played just about any of their songs for my teenage son or any of his friends, they just wouldn't have the patience for it. I mean, if a song has an intro that lasts more than, say, five seconds or something, he's out. And he says his friends are the same way. You know, I, again, 43 years old, absolute old man yelling at the clouds. So I'll take this with a grain of salt.

You've seen those, too. Oh, my God. What's with the clouds? I'm not a teenager, but I know a couple of teenagers who like this band. And one in particular, I'm thinking of she's a girl. Her last favorite band was Arctic Monkeys. I mean, she's maybe like 18 or 19. And I think, and maybe I just hope that there is just kind of a hunger amongst younger people

for a sort of legible rock band to grab onto. Because like in a just world, this would have been Wednesday, you know? Well, that's just saying you would use the word legible to describe geese because I would almost use the exact opposite to describe it. I think so because I think, you know, they have, I'm talking maybe more contextually than within the music, but like it is five, four people, four distinct people with almost like distinct identities. So kids can be like, oh, my favorite is Emily, you know? like Cameron is so dreamy. Like it almost has like a pop group element to it. And I do think the young people I've talked to, like when I saw Cameron Winter solo back in February of last year and there was like a young girl.

She was probably like in our early 20s. And she asked how we knew about Cameron Winter. I mean, Chris Ryan were there. And she said, did you like geese? And we were like, oh, no, we just found Cameron Winter. And she was like, oh, I came here because I love geese. of 3D country. So I do think it had more of an impact on young people and maybe we're not giving them enough credit for what they're able to listen to and how complex music. Because what that music really is

is emotionally hitting, you know, it reminds me of like pavement in a way. And young people love pavement. You know, like you have a visceral reaction to this rock music. It's visceral. I want to pick up on your word legible because I think there's a way to think about legible illegibility as it were which we might also call known knowns and unknown known known unknowns exactly which we might also call mystery you know and and like becoming open to something that you don't understand at first

I think that that that's really what is attractive about geese I mean Yasu you've been you've been saying and I think you're absolutely right Like the songs are very vulnerable. His vocals are very vulnerable in a way, although they're also very staged. So it's both at the same time. There's a lot of paradox in this music. There's a lot of kind of things you can unravel, I think, trying to figure out the influences is a fun guessing game. But then there is also just this way it hits you in the heart, you know?

It's very beautiful. So much of it I find just absolutely breathtaking. There's some songs on heavy metal. Like, there's a song, Love takes miles. Love will call. Love will make you fit it all. Yeah. It's very lovely.

Goodbye. But then I will say, you know, there's a song near the end. Maybe it even closes it called Zero Dollars, which is almost, it's kind of hilarious. It is so weird and different from everything. And that's, it's that contrast that I love so much. And you were just kind of talking about that, Anne, you know, I love. how he can have something really, really, really beautiful, and then sort of subverted very intentionally

was something that's just kind of bonkers. That's the song where he screams, God is real, God is real. I'm not kidding, God is real over and over again, which is part of, you know, when I said I had this reaction of laughter, which may have been a discomfort reaction. Yeah, see, I think I can feel you there. It's just like part of me says, oh, my God, kid, you are really, you know, you are putting your finger out and pushing,

those buttons. You are just pushing those buttons, you know. But I think that this again points to one of the issues that people have, which is, you know, I just don't know how, I never know what to believe. I don't know how much he means everything that he's saying or how ironic he's being. But I think he means it. And I float, can I float another theory? I just, I got to float another theory. So King Princess did this amazing cover of the geese song, O'Pays, Do Cocaine, which I love that song. I love the Saturday live performance. That might be my favorite song. But King Princess, who is an amazing young, queer artist, calls that song a lesbian anthem.

Here's where I'm going. Gender is very fluid among many members of Gen Z, and sexuality is very fluid. And I think one thing about this music is that it's about trying to figure out love, romance, sex, in a very fluid and sometimes confusing world. I really think that is a thread in this music that maybe nobody's talked about. Here's this guy with this incredibly deep, masculine voice singing these totally bereft love songs

toward to someone. We don't know anything about the subject of these songs. Maybe it's a woman named Nina sometimes, but there's a lot of names in these songs. We don't know anything about how these are directed, and there's so much instability in his desire, so much instability in his hope. I think that's another major thing. Along with spirituality, I think the sexuality of this music, it's so destabilized that that is very attractive.

I do think you also, like, just to cotton onto that, I do feel like it's libidinal, which I think a lot of contemporary music for Gen Z is not libidinal. Yes, very much. Totally off base, you know. I think that, I mean, rock music, of course young people love this. Who else is supposed to love this? They are supposed to love this. I'm the woman in the meme that's like, there's a 56 year old woman here. That's, I'm not supposed to be there. They are supposed to be there. But that's what's fascinating. But that's what's fascinating about geese because like boomers love geese. I guess, I guess what I'm thinking is that they're a band that to me asks a lot of their audience. They do. Yes. I agree.

And I don't know, at least the young kids that I see because of my kids and their friends and everything. I don't see them. Again, the attention span it requires. Or, you know, this is music you need to sit with. You need to hear multiple times, you know. And so when I say they're the most confounding band to me, I guess what I mean is the geese phenomenon is confounding. Like, they're getting the kind of heat that you would expect from a band that does put out singles and pop up all over TikTok or wherever. And, I mean, just for a quick sort of reality check, I was looking at all the different kinds of numbers for this band.

I mean, and this is all, this is just anecdotal stuff, but they were, this album, getting killed, was number one or within the top five on a lot of lists, including Rolling Stones, paced, you know, my personal lists. But apart from being on those lists, zero Grammy nominations, zero songs on the Billboard, Hot 100. They've got a few hundred thousand followers on Spotify, which isn't bad, but I mean, that's on par with, you know, a lot of the smaller indie bands that we love. And it's just, I think they're just, they're getting the kind of attention that I usually think of with much bigger bands. And that's partly the thing that's so baffling to me, just, you know, how much they've captured. Is it baffling to you? Because who is the audience? People work in media.

It's all of the people that work. Exactly. I mean, is it just us? It's a classic. Exactly. It's an echo chamber. It's classic critics favorite. This is a great segue into why people hate them. Because I have them working on Ethereum. I'd love to hear what you guys think about it. Let's do it. As you know, I'm deeply obsessed with the monoculture and think we should bring it back. But as we don't have it anymore, what I think is happening now is the algorithm has replaced the monoculture. So we each have our own personal monoculture. But it feels the same as the regular monoculture because it is pummeling you with whatever it is.

And if you are a person who likes guitar rock music or you've ever checked pitchfork or you're interested in contemporary criticism or music or whatever, you're going to have geese shoved down. your throat left, right and center, because of what we just said, because people in the media love it. And the people who talk about music love it. And so people who maybe never had a chance to come across this band in any sort of organic way, all of a sudden have like 60,000 tweets or whatever about whether this band sucks or not, or this is the band as the second coming of Christ to save rock and roll. And I would be like, I'm good, thank you, as well. If I hadn't have found it on my own before that. I completely understand that reaction because I'm a bit of a hater too, babe. I'm a total hater. If it's popular, it can't be good. I'm a child of the 90s.

Well, this is totally, I am a, I guess I'm an adult of the 90s. And I, that was a lot of my reaction to geese, too. Like the hype killed it for me for a while. Well, we've already kind of been bringing up some of these, but I want to talk about the, the most common complaints that I hear about this band. I made a list of what I see is the top five complaints that people have about this band. And we can go through this list and we can address each one and talk about whether or not they're a feature or a bug or maybe both. I would say number one, number one complaint, Cameron Winter can't sing. I've went through all kinds of social media posts and Reddit threads and things. Here are some of my favorite quotes that I pulled from them. Unlistenable. He

drones over everything. Another one is he sounds like Jim Morrison gave Chewbacca singing lessons. My personal favorite, he sounds like Fossey Bear being puppeted by Jeff Mangum. That sounds awesome. I want to hear that band. Yeah. I'm like, that would make me want to listen. I mean, it's obvious that he can sing. I mean, he can project.

He's on tune. I mean, he's not Taylor Swift. People said Taylor Swift couldn't sing for, I don't know, half a dozen years until he pushes the notes really hard. He pushes that drone in his voice. You know, it's the way he structures as melodies. And I think, again, we're kind of returning to Yassi, your great insight about how uncomfortable this makes us feel. It's just when he holds a note for as long as he holds those notes,

it feels uncomfortable. I mean, I feel like he's just like in the lineage of many other men who quote-unquote can sing, right? Like the classic Lou Reed, Bob Dylan. Actually, we were just. Yeah. Actually, the people he reminds me the most of are Bill Callahan, aka Smod, so much like Bill Callahan. And Will Oldham is another one, Bonnie Prince Billy. And again, you know, these are crooners.

David Byrne. Who have kind of conventionally, you know, quote-unquote good voices who are in rock and roll doing something in rock and roll that doesn't feel right in rock and roll. And I think that's one reason people feel like Cameron Winter can't sing. You know what I mean? I mean, I would say the exact opposite. Not only Kenny Singh, he has an incredible range and diverse range of what he can do with his voice. And you listen across those records, like projector, he kind of sounds like the strokes. Oh, yeah.

But then you listen to like 3D country, and it's like this weird alternate universe take on Motown. Well, there's a lot of Randy Newman in there, too. Oh, that's interesting. I can hear that. I mean, we could say Captain Beehard, Don Van Vleeth. There's so many different. touch shows, I've heard people compare him to Rufus Wainwright, you know, who, of course, is an operatic singer, an aspirationally operatic singer.

But that's interesting. You know, Robin, listening to those early records, I think what happened is Winter shed a lot of his affect that led toward one identification or another. In other words, at a certain point, he could sound kind of soulful, or he could sound a little bit country. on getting killed, that's all kind of erased. You know what I mean? I mean, if you listen to his interviews,

I think he sounds like I would expect him to sound, singing. I mean, like, it sounds real to me. And I think all of these complaints we're going to go through. I think at the heart of all of them or the root of them, what people are really all wound up about is the idea of authenticity. So when they listen to him on these records, especially getting killed, they think he's faking it, that this is just some funny, weird, affected voice.

As a fellow person of being called annoying voice authenticity, Cameron Winter, I'm with you, I stand with you. Leave us alone. But at the same time, I think that's what made me laugh, though, when I was first listening to him because I also did feel like, and I'd never feel like this about you, Yossi. I did feel like he was pulling the wool over my eyes, or he was trying, and I didn't like that.

You know, I didn't like the idea that he was putting on this voice. It doesn't, it's not a natural feeling voice. Whatever you say, whatever, however much we love it, it doesn't feel natural. It's like Stephen Malchmus to me, though, also. It's like when you first hear Stephen Malchmus sing or talk, like it's, it sounds affected, and then you realize, but that's just who that person is. Or as I mentioned, Will Oldham, same thing, right? Like, I mean, you know.

All of this requires us to make a lot of assumptions of what his intent is when he's, when he does any of this, sings or writes these songs or anything. And I guess my feeling when I listen to it is that this is real, that this is, this is what, this is just what this dude sounds like.

You listen to the early, early records and you hear him trying to find his voice, and he found it here. Now that's not, you know, maybe it'll be totally different on the next record. Still a choice. He found his voice,

but it's a choice. Okay, it is a choice. There's something to be said about who has to be authentic and who doesn't, right? Like, it's like, I just, I think it's funny.

genre thing, right? It's like, oh, rock, this rock music, it has to be from the streets. They had to, you know, do this. Everything has to be real. And I'm like, do you guys remember David Bowie? I don't, just like, what is this? What are we talking about here? But there have been similar complaints about artists across different genres. And I think of like Lana Del Rey. I've thought of her a lot when listening to Geese and when I watched the SNL performance because, you know, she was just completely eviscerated for her SNL performance. And the complaints were, oh, she's mumbling her way through this. It's totally flat.

She's fake. She's assumed this whole persona for this performance, and people totally took her down for that. And if you go on the discussion threads and everything, you hear what people are saying, it's very similar for the Geese performance on Saturday Night Live, again, because people think that it's inauthentic.

I find that baffling. I mean, I find a baffling about Geese's SNL performance. I thought it was a completely standard rock band performance. I think we've forgotten with that. They could have led with. Trinidad. I mean, they led with the sleepiest cut they could. I guess. I love that song. I love that song. That's my favorite. That's my favorite song too. That's the one that jumped out to me. Trinidad is like the banger. Yeah, the Trinidad is the banger because it's the heaviest and they're screaming and it's like finally something for the men, you know, or whatever. But like, that is, that's not what the rest of the album necessarily sounds like. So I think it's very cool that they play it.

I can't pronounce that. It pays to cook. Sure. All right, let's get to complaint number two. Complaint number two. The lyrics are nonsensical gibberish. I will fight a person. Who said that?

Okay. I just want to talk. Where do you live? All right. Well, I'll start with my wife, who when I played them. Okay. Well, she said, is he even singing words? And she's like, be, be, be, boo.

But yeah, you go on any of the Reddit threads. And people are like, what is he catarwalling about? What is he even saying? You don't think I will break my own heart from now on is a god tear lyric. You don't think you can change and still choose me is a god tier lyric. I hear you. Show me someone else writing lyrics on this level, you know? I think people are focusing more, Yossi, on lines like, yeah, I'm taking off my pants.

I'm getting out of this gumball machine. It's metaphor of it. But, you know, I mean, I agree and disagree. Again, I think there's some desabilization going on here, the theme of our discussion, right? Like, he has beautiful, poignant lyrics. He has nonsensical lyrics. And they're juxtapose against each other. And again, that makes people uncomfortable. It's not one or the other. It's both. But I think it's, like you said, a feature, not a bug. I was just, I just interviewed Barry Johnson from Joyce Manor, a wonderful band, about this exact thing where it's like, it would be so overwrought and heavy-handed if every lyric was. you can change and still choose me. Having those sorts of not, it's the same as his voice, right?

Where there is such a like ragged vulnerability, but also a winking and smirking. It's the balance that kind of makes what is special about the sound of this band. Yeah, it's sort of like, I bring this example up all the time on this show when we talk lyrics. But like, Wilco, you take a lyric like, I'm an American aquarium drinker. I assassin down the avenue. Like, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but then he ends it with, I'm, hiding out in the big city blinking, what was I thinking when I let go of you? Like, you can hold on to that. And then the weirdness that he frames it with, it just invites all this deep consideration.

So you take a line like on the title cut of getting killed when he says, yeah, I'm taking off my pants. I'm getting out of this gumball machine. But he follows that with saying, I'm getting killed by a pretty good life. Right. Which is now that, now you've got me. And I'm going to sit with this for a while. Right. I have multiple pavement lyrics tattooed on me, babes, and maybe I'm not the correct audience for this. I'm like, you know, I saw your girlfriend and she was eating her fingers like they're just another meal. I mean, surrealism has been a huge influence on songwriters since, you know, I don't know, Paul McCartney onward. We could go, we go through the whole history of rock and talk about this. And, you know, people like to compare him,

Cameron Winter to Bob Dylan. Dylan definitely has some zingers in there too in some lines that you're just like, what are you talking about, you know? Yeah, I mean, I think he's kind of a brilliant lyricist actually. He's also 22, right? Or 23 or whatever he is now? So let's see where he goes. All right, complaint number three. They're ripping off every rock band

that came before them. This is a topic we can go very, very long on because there are so many examples. I'm going to just start listing some, and you'd stop me if it's one you've thought of or if you want to weigh in here. Bowie, I think Bowie's pretty obvious. It's like a little glam rock.

I would argue with that, but we'll take that off. No? Okay. Epic. All right. Animal Collective. Yeah. Makes sense. Okay. How about this one? Dave Matthew. Okay. I was going to bring up David Matthews earlier. Thank God that you did it first. Because people, there she goes talking about David Matthews. Polarizing voice. Yeah, for sure. Oh, my gosh. Such a polarizing voice. People thought he was a Muppet. Yeah. I guess I was thinking it was more the sort of...

The jam band aspect. Jam band. Jam band. And jazz. People forget that the members of the David Matthews band are classically jazz trained musicians. And Cameron Winters talked a lot about the influence of jazz. Yeah, I think several of the members of Geese were actually admitted to schools like Berkeley and turned it down to they could go on to become what they are today. If we're trying to get people to like this band, I don't know if we've helped with the Dave Matthews and I live and die for David Matthew.

All right, Rolling Stones. That's because he has a song called the Rolling Stones. That's kind of lazy. You listen to the chug of islands of men that kind of chug. that kind of chugs along. I thought Rolling Stones. Smash mouth. Okay, this one you've got to explain.

I need to hear. If you listen to, this comes courtesy Otis Hart on the Empire Music team. If you listen to about a minute a half into the song, Taxes. Somebody once told me the world's gonna roll me. It's a stretch, but. It's not the chorus of, All-Star, it's the opening to All-Star. I hear it.

But that's the thing, like you, I will hear 10 different references in a single song. Yeah, I think that's happening for sure. Yes, that is totally happening. I have a whole playlist, by the way, that I've made, that I will share with people called This Reminds Meekes. So I have more I could throw in the mix. I mean, our favorite PJ Harvey,

I definitely think a song like 50 Foot Queenie connects with what geese is doing. What else is on that playlist, Amy? A lot of people have talked about Captain Beef, I think the art rock side of things and also Don Van Vleet's very unusual voice. The Pixies, pretty obvious choice. Nick Cave, obviously, Nick Cave in the Bad Seas. And then I'll just say an unexpected one, and this is a shout out to the rhythm section. I think some dub reggae artists, like all the whole on-you-sounds catalog.

I think Talking Heads is the most obvious reference point for me. I think it's obvious to me in his voice. He sounds very David Bernie to me. It's adventurous in the same way. I hear that, but I have to say, I think Talking Kids rarely, if ever got so loose and spacious, I think Talking Kids was like a dance band in some fundamental way, even at the beginning.

But I hear you on the kind of, especially the early, so maybe Fear of Music-era Talking Kids. Well, because it's like what other band could we talk about that sounds like Dave Matthews in the Talking Heads? Do you know what I mean? Again, it's a feature, not a bug. It's like, I feel like this is a fun house mirror because you could, you could name any band on earth and probably find some, like, I was explaining to a friend, like, I see geese as like when you see the cave man going all the way to the upright man, you know, thing where I'm like, that was rock music and it's coming and now it's here. Like Cameron Winter put up, I don't know if it still exists, but he had put up some playlist of like influences and it was like Nina Simone.

And I was like, yeah, it's just music. That's what kind of irritated me, though. I like, you know, he's claiming all the greats, and that's fine. I mean, I agree with you. I think that's one of the most fun things about this band is the name, the inspiration game. And I noticed that when people were reviewing getting killed, often critics would say, I don't really know what this is inspired by. Like, he's somehow the band, and I'm going to say the whole band, not just Cameron Winter,

because we haven't been talking about the whole band enough. That's true. They throw enough into the mix that it gets, you know, confused. Well, yeah, if you're 23 years old, you have everything that's ever been made at your fingertips to take in and put through your own ability to play at that level, like all of these musicians. Each one of them is such an accomplished musician for their age,

that they kind of, I think that's what comes out the other side is that they're so good that they can take all these. inputs and make something incredible on the other side. I'm with you, Yossi. I think I don't hear them ripping off these bands. I hear what naturally happens when you're young artists making music now and you can hear anything by anybody that's ever been done in the history of making music and you're just a sponge and absorbing it.

All bands are like this. I'm sorry, like you could, I can hear 311 and turnstile. That's not bad. That's good. You know, like it's not Greta Van Fleet where you're like, oh, incredible cosplay, you know? Whatever happened to Greta Van Fleet? Wow. You're right.

I mean, like, when you're young and hungry, yeah, you're, like, reaching for wherever seems right. Okay. Complaint number four. They're privileged nepo babies. They are nepo babies, but not in the usual sense, in my opinion. They are bohemian nepo babies. These kids grew up in New York City.

I don't know about all of their parents, but definitely Cameron Winters' parents were in the culture industries, in the art. Emily Greenstad. played with John Cale. That's right. Emily Green's dad also played with my friend David Driver, who interestingly also played in a band with Andy Booz, who is Somber's father.

Wow. It's all one thing. It's a sci-op. It's all a sci-op. Sombergis collab now. Sombergis collab now. I demand it. So a couple comments I pulled from online.

Here's one. They're insanely privileged. another one. I'm glad the youth of today have their own New York trust fund indie rock band to rally behind.

I mean... And I mean, out of all of the complaints, this one and maybe number five that we're going to get to just drives me absolutely nuts. I get it if they're like no talent,

people whatever, who like, you know, get everything, even though they don't do any of the work or don't have any of the talent, but they're doing the work and they've got the talent. Maybe they're privileged and they're lucky to be able to make the music that they've been making.

But the whole idea of you coming from people who are also talented or successful, therefore you don't deserve anything, is complete nonsense to me. That's like saying, well, I guess, you know, I'm never going to watch Spinal Tap or when Harry met Sally or any other Rob Reiner movie because Rob Reiner was a Nepo baby. I mean, this is, this is like the oldest complaint on earth, right? This is blur. This is like, we'll never be free of this complaint. And that's fine. It's, I think it's an important one for people to have, you know, like, let them have it. It's, it doesn't really change anything.

It's always going to be like, oh, those are privileged art school kids or those are the strokes or those, you know, and that's okay. Like, I mean, it's Rolling Stones, you know, art school kids, whatever. But I mean, but I'll stick with my point, which is that the music is what it is in part because from childhood on they were, I mean, Rob Reiner actually, RIP. You know, Rob Reiner is a great example because it was actually such a plus. I mean, the fact that Carl Reiner was his father, right? It's like that is, that's why he was so great. He came from that, you know, I mean, I think people are expressing, they're expressing frustration. at their own

understandably. Like, you know, like I would love it if I had, yeah, yeah, I would love it if I had bohemian parents that encouraged me

to play music for my young age. But I do think it's worth making the distinction that they didn't become, they didn't take their place within the world of music because any of their parents had any pole.

That didn't happen, you know, and that's the difference between being a Nepo baby and having in nurturing, artistic and, you know, maybe, I'm pretty sure they live,

I thought, I heard Cameron Winter still lives at home. So, I mean, they're 23 years old. Yeah, no, he has a great line in one of his interviews. I'm not afraid of living with my parents. He's to stay at home, son. Yeah, I just, I guess I listen to these sorts of complaints and then I think, well, why wouldn't this be the field that they kind of find themselves going into if that's what you grew up with? And why wouldn't you naturally have some talent in this field if that's what you grew up with? If Cameron Winter was a woman, this would be so much louder and they would be absolutely like this is an industry. plant. These people are fake. Someone put them here.

I mean, that's, I'm sure. I'm sure that's true. All right. Complaint number five. And we've already talked a little bit about this. But the complaint is they're overhyped and hype kills. A couple comments I pulled. I keep hearing about them, but I've managed to never hear them. At this point, I'm intentionally avoiding them just to see how long it takes. Here's another one. I'm avoiding them on purpose now. I've never heard their music. And somehow I'm still sick of them. I can't knock it. I mean, listen, when you when the most annoying person you know is posting videos from the geese show and you've not heard them,

you might be a little bit like, you know what? Interesting correlation to Moby Grape, who I keep mentioning, but you know, when Moby Grape was like the most hyped band in the San Francisco scene at a certain point, and their label, I think it was Columbia, released five singles at once, and that wrecked the band. That along with Skip Spence, their leaders, he struggled from. mental illness that also didn't help. But I mean, if hype's going to hurt anybody, it's going to be the band themselves. You know what I mean? Ultimately, that's a problem that they, that will affect them or that will affect you or me, you know? I mean, whatever. We can always turn it off. I mean, I think it's back, just back to my thing about the algorithm. Like, you don't have to listen

to. No one's forcing you. You don't have to listen to geese. You don't have to listen to Bandsplan. You don't have to listen to NPR. You don't have to do anything. It's a free country. And just get off your phone. And then you can feel free and beautiful. Well, forgetting for a moment that so much of this, I think, is just rooted in deep cynicism, and I just think that robs people of so much joy. Okay, but I got to say one thing, though, before we put anything

aside, because I do think one thing is bogus. I'm sorry. When Cameron Winter performed at Carnegie Hall, and he performed with his back to the crowd, and Paul Thomas Anderson and Benny Safdi were filming that at the same time, that was a bridge too far for me.

It was a... Which part? The fact that they were filming? The whole thing. The whole thing. It was just like... Well, he always performs with his batch of the audience because he did that in February when I saw them before any of this hype it happened.

How do you feel about it? I thought it was kind of charming. I don't know. Again, I'm... I like this band. So like, and also this is all pre the hype. So I just went in being like, this is giving Charlie Brown Christmas in such a funny and adorable way.

And he's just so awkward. and just hunched over this piano and made zero small talk. But he's also an objectively good-looking guy. He looks like a rock star, so I don't get the Charlie Brown. He's not, you know, he's not to... Maybe we should be pitching the tiny desk to people as an opportunity to see him from straight on. But you know what? For the entire performance, because he sits there.

It's so interesting, though, because he sits there, but he never looks like his eyes are anywhere. Like, he does not connect, you know? And I found that. So maybe he just really doesn't, maybe it's genuine, not in an affect. I think the Lana comparison is actually a good one because I think what time has shown us about Lana, who has, you know, I'm a major Stan. That's who she is. Like, there's nothing actually more authentic than what she is presenting.

And I think it's, I think time will show the same about geese and about Cameron Winter as a frontman. Like, that's just how I feel about it. Ultimately, it doesn't matter. No, that's absolutely true. You know, but. I think the thing about hype, and even though I, have a knee-jerk reaction to hype, I just can't help it. It's because I was a very unpopular child. I mean, I genuinely like react to hype the way I reacted to not being invited to people's

birthday parties. It makes me feel bad. But in fact, hype is generated by other people. It's not generated by the band. So should we blame them? Well, this is interesting. And because I think there's something going on with all of this hype stuff and how poles. And how poles. polarizing it's made people over this band, where it's a kind of inverted fomo. Yeah. Where, like, what's really happening is people need to feel normal. It's a basic human need. People like to feel normal.

And when something they don't like becomes a thing and blows up, whether it's a rock band from Brooklyn or masks during the pandemic or whatever polarizing thing you can think of, if enough people embrace it, then everyone who hates it, feels like they're the outlier. And people hate that feeling. Yeah. They're even threatened by it. You know, there was. And, sorry. Yeah, no.

So they end up pushing back harder, I think, than they otherwise would. There was a great issue of the literary magazine, Granta, that was published after Princess Diana died. And it was just interviews with English people who didn't care that she had died. And, like, how alienated they felt. because the entire country was like so in the depths of mourning around this death. And it just proves your point, Robin. Like if you don't feel like you're part of this wave that everyone else is part of, yeah,

it just it does, it's the worst feeling in the world, I think. And maybe in our very divided times, too, like we want to be welcomed into something. If you think about what I think is the antidote too, which is kind of the, the, the, the arc of pop-timism, of, you know, loving really popular things like Beyonce and Taylor Swift and the Marvel universe. If Geese is sort of the antidote to that, it is a turn away from the idea that a form of cultural expression, whether it's a band or a movie or whatever, should welcome all of us. And it turned toward the idea that art should be a little bit exclusive. It should be a little bit difficult, you know? And that's going to cause some people a little bit of service. You know,

it's going to make people feel nervous. It's also just so funny to me, this is not a ponderative, but like the fact that this band is what's causing this commotion and controversy because, like, ultimately they're very milk toast, you know, like, and not in a bad way. But I'm like, you were just some, love songs, talented kids who play music. They're not, you know, this isn't screwdriver. You know, like, we're not. I mean, that's why. I mean, that's why. I say it's like, apologies to the NPR audience. Don't Google screwbram. But that's what I mean.

That's like why I say that there's not really that much that's terribly remarkable about him. I love him. I think it's great. But I can't believe this is the hill. And it's also okay. If you don't like his voice, that's fine. If the music's not for you, totally, that's a valid opinion. And I have no interest in arguing.

Just go listen to Wednesday. Just go listen to Wednesday instead. Yeah, that's. We love Wednesday. We're a pro Wednesday. contingent on this podcast. Yeah, but I think Robin, you're exactly right. I think people feel, especially because it's not a pop artist. Like, it's very easy to tune out some very popular artists and just be like, I'm, I'm alt. That's none of my business. Of course, I don't like that.

But then when, like, other people that like the same kind of things you do, like, are lionizing this band, and you're like, oh, I'm just like, not that into it. You're not even able to be just indifferent to it. You kind of have to take a stance. And it's all the hyperbole about them, too, driving it when people say they're saving rock rock music and rock bands they're like moses coming down the mountain you know that's that's pretty heavy hyperbole I just I hope it all what I hope it does is open the door for more rock bands and show that there is like a hunger

and appetite amongst literally every generation at this moment for good guitar rock music because it's been sidelined for so long and I not that rock music means a savior but I guess the question we've arrived at with all of this is, you know, and one of the reasons why we wanted to have this conversation in the first place is just like, are they here to stay? Are they a flash in the pan? Or are we going to be talking about this band in 10 years or longer? I think they have the talent and the creativity to continue to evolve and make really cool music. They could also be like, this sucks. Everyone's being really mean. I had to. a mental breakdown. I hope not. You know, anything could happen, but I don't, they're 23 years old.

I think a lot more is coming from them. I mean, I do think that the fact that Cameron Winter had so much success with his solo album at the same time that the band really broke puts him at a crossroads, you know, he's going to have to make some decisions, but from the evidence seems to indicate that he, that the band

is very strong as a unit. So I don't about 10 years, but I will say I'm looking forward to their next album and I'm looking forward to, you know, how they grow. I look for a genuine, again, authentic sort of sense of curiosity and how much curiosity gas do they have in the tank? And I feel like they've got a lot in the tank left. And if they can hold on to that, I think, you know, they're also, you know, this band is very inventive. and inventive bands, I think, tend to have long shelf lives because they're always sort of reimagining things. Yeah, but he just heard the Beatles two years ago.

Wait till he was a killing joke. Like, who knows what's going to be in front of us? Wait till, you know, like, here's the germs. Like, I don't know. Like, there's a lot more that's going to come into the inspiration tank. Where I draw the line is the idea that they're saving rock and that, like, rock bands are back, baby. Rock bands have never gone away.

Wetleg, Wednesday, Annie DeRoo's. So 100 gecks, turnstile. So many. So many great rock bands. The thing that hasn't dominated the charts or anything for a long time is like stadium rock. Maybe Dave Grohl will bring you. King Gizzard plays big arenas, you know. So they've already played big stages.

I think they could do it. Well, I think we did it. I think we've solved every problem. We solved it. I hope they really enjoy the part where you just listed why everyone hates them for about a more. I hope no one ever does a podcast like that about me. No, we defended every single one of those. We love you, geese.

All right, I want to thank Otis Hart, as always, who does way too many things to contain in a single title. Also, NPR Music editor Jacob Gantz. Saria Muhammad is the executive producer for NPR Music and our fearless leader is Sonali Mehta. Anne Powers, Yasi Salek, thanks so much. This was so fun. Thank you, Robin.

This was so fun. I'm Robin Hilton. It's all songs considered. Baby, let me dance away.