Nuanced. - 1. Nina Zetchus - How to Start a Business

Episode Date: September 7, 2021

Nina Zechtus has a strong background in credit unions, starting a business, and financial literacy. Nina Zechtus has family lineage from Sts’ailes First Nation. Nina is also involved with the Stó:lō  Business Association, Business Manager II for Vancity, a Lending Committee Member for Stó:lō Community Futures, owner of Luna Float, and is on the Board of Directors for Moytelexw formerly Sts'ailes Development Corporation.Luna Float: https://www.lunafloat.ca/ Starting a business? Here are great local resources: Stó:lō Community Futures offers support services for Indigenous owned/controlled businesses within S'ólh Téméxw, the Stó:lō Traditional Territory from Fort Langley to Yale, on both sides of the Fraser River.  Our offers include business counseling, access to loan capital programs, business training workshops, and growth guidance. Visit their website to get started: https://www.stolocf.ca/Community Futures South Fraser serves small business owners and entrepreneurs in Chilliwack and Abbotsford.  They provide basic business advisory services including free one-on-one coaching conversations for small to medium-sized business owners. If you’re wanting to grow your business in a specific way, we have a specialist that can help. Visit their website to get started: https://southfraser.com/Community Futures North Fraser serves small business owners and entrepreneurs in Harrison Hot Springs, Agassiz and Mission. They provide basic business advisory services including free one-on-one coaching conversations for small to medium-sized business owners. If you’re wanting to grow your business in a specific way, we have a specialist that can help. Visit their website to get started: https://northfraser.org/Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/user?u=35374462&fan_landing=true)Send us a textSupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

Nina, it is a pleasure to have you back on. This is a bit of a unique circumstance because this is a bigger than me podcast miniseries focused on how to start a business and explaining that and breaking that down for people. And this all came about because I see a disconnect between the people who are willing to take the risks. and the people who have access to the understanding and kind of the mechanisms that all go in behind that. So I'm hoping that you can give a brief introduction of your business background, working with Van City, and then we can get into the questions. Sure, for sure. So I guess I don't know if I'm going to be ruining your linear path, because I don't really operate that way. but because it all is all mashed together right so my how I started with Van City um I started working for them in 2006 so what was happening around that time was I was already attending UFB

I was currently working at stream which I think everyone in Chilliwax probably worked there or know someone who's worked there so kind of right out of high school I graduated in 2003 um it was my that's what I was doing working there and going to UFB I was actually in business or not in business as I was in sciences to begin. And someone had did a presentation on Van City, and I was like, what a cool organization to work for. And like, hey, like, it's kind of congruened with business. Well, and like, which was, I was just, like, dabbling in it.

And so I was like, maybe it's time for a change and I'll apply. So I ended up starting out as a teller, like, you know, the first people you see when you come in do your deposits and stuff. And I did that for about three years. And I worked my way up into an account manager role, which is, you see less people during the day, but you have more time with them. That's when you book an appointment and you like do open, open new accounts and help kind of with the topical stuff. Like, I say topical, like, because you're kind of like, you know a little bit about everything, but you're not

necessarily specialized in any one thing. So I wasn't licensed to do mutual funds, but I could speak to, you know, the differences between RRSPs and tax-free savings. And I was giving out mortgages and loans and helping people's consolidation loans. And that actually like dovetailed into financial literacy, which became a big passion of mine and facilitating workshops and helping people with their credit and that sort of thing. And then I was kind of doing that simultaneously with going to UFB and taking business courses so that it kind of worked together. And then you ended up starting your own business. Exactly. Yeah. So kind of full circle, I guess. As an account manager, some of those new accounts were new business accounts

and you'd help them with a little bit of an operating line of credit and that sort of thing. again with the financial literacy piece there was the what they call it each one teach one that was the you know learn about your credit learn about bank accounts all those things that people you know once they reach their kind of like mid-20s they're like why didn't they never teach us this in school and like we were teaching those things and then they had a business one was like a business lens like an entrepreneurial lens and that was for kind of like bridge the gap right the what people don't necessarily know like how to write a business plan the things that you don't know you don't know kind of thing about marketing and just how to collect numbers, how to research, and how to

start and how to grow kind of thing. So, and I give each one growing. So I like that. And, yeah, I was just working with small businesses, entrepreneurs at different stages of their kind of like business lives. And it's so inspiring. I thought, like, hey, maybe I should give that a shot myself. You know, entrepreneurs, business owners, very passionate people. And I think it's a little contagious. So I was like, I had been at Bensity for about 10 years at that point. And we discussed on the other podcast, kind of the reasons why I was looking for something different, some of my health issues, and found floating. And never did I actually even think like, oh, I love floating. I'm going to open that as a business. It came more from a, I want to change and I want to do something

I'm super passionate about like love banking, but 10 years kind of just like I needed a change. It was time for something new. And a friend who had floated with was like, what about floating? And I was like, what? I don't know. Like that's so big, right? I felt kind of pigeonholed like I had gone to school for business, accounting finance. I was working in a bank for 10 years.

I was like, what can I do? Like, maybe I can make money do being a financial literacy kind of, but it just didn't, that didn't feel right. I like doing that kind of for free. Like, I just love giving that education piece. So, yeah, and it wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do. So floating was a good way of, or opening Luna float was a good way of filling that need of helping people, but also by bringing something beneficial to the community, but also be able to, like, use all of my energy to do something I, like, really believe in and really passionate about. Yeah. That is all fantastic to hear.

I'm interested to know first. Let's start off with your education background. What courses did you take in business at the University of the Fraser Valley? Valley, and is there any that you took something away from, or you said, this really helped long term? Was there any accounting classes or anything? Because I think that I've seen a lot of entrepreneurs, and some of them lose interest when it comes to school. So is there any courses that you can recommend? Because I think we get lost in the four-year, we need to do a whole degree. Is there a course or a program that somebody can take that they'd get something out of for

business? Yeah. So, I mean, Asterix, I've been out of it. I had to do the math, and I was like, I think I graduated like 10 years ago from UFB, so I'm old. And so, I mean, I know it's changed. It was growing when I was part of it. So, and actually kind of shout out to Mark Breedveld, who is, I don't know his title off top of my head, but I think he's like the department head of school of business at UFB. And he had actually reached out, and he was talking about another program or another program or course that they're potentially offering. And he reached out to me as a UFB alumni.

as well as the president of the Sala Business Association. And it sounded cool. And I think what it was was when I was going to UFB, so started out in the sciences, my first business course was marketing. I thought it sounded interesting. It was kind of like dipping my toe into the business realm because I'd been taking biology and math and all those sorts of fun things. And so this was quite different.

And it was with Mark Braidwell. It was his first year at UFV, so it was a long time ago. Now he's the leader. Yeah, yeah, so it was kind of interesting. I really liked the course. It was really, it was interesting. We've talked about how I also like psychology and philosophy, and I feel like a lot of different kind of business elements kind of interwoven with those theories and practices and stuff like that.

So that was the first course. I really liked it. And I think, I can't remember what the second one was. I think like business 100. or the business 101 kind of thing. And that was a really good course to take a very general approach. So when I was at UFB for business, I was thinking more about a career, working for someone else.

I wasn't going in with the mindset of like an entrepreneurial mindset. So that was kind of the lens I had. So I would say that for the most part, it was about, I need to do this, these courses to learn about business and see what I like. I think that's maybe one of the biggest benefits. of going to university isn't necessarily the courses per se, but learning what you like and what you don't like, learning about yourself, making connections. Those are kind of the abstract benefits of going. But when you're going as someone who's seeking employment afterwards, sometimes

it feels a little monotonous, like you're just doing it for the piece of paper. But yeah, there's all that other stuff that you learn on your way. So I was aiming for accounting, and I learned that I didn't really care for all of it that much. I actually took an entrepreneurial course, which I can't really remember too much about it. I feel like there probably could have been some improvement upon it, and I feel like there needs to be more of that, because I feel like in the business world, again, 10 years ago, they didn't have as much offerings as they do now,

so maybe they've improved upon it already. But, yeah, like, sometimes it feels kind of more of like a trade you're going to become an accountant. So you take these accounting courses and at the end, that's cool. But when you're an entrepreneur, it's like, what do you do? Like, you can take entrepreneurial courses, but are there other courses that would help, like, accounting so that you can kind of figure out your own numbers and bookkeeping and stuff? Sure, like any information, any extra tools in your toolbox is going to be good, right? Right. How did the marketing help?

Because I think that that's an area where people have a really good idea. maybe they're good at implementation, but it's the getting the word out in an effective way. Did you get anything out of the program at UFE, the class, marketing? I, so I loved marketing and advertising at UFV because it kind of gave you jumping off points and it gave you the psychological background of why marketing and advertisements are implemented and how they react to, or how humans react to it. So I just like the kind of the theory behind it. And again, I wasn't an entrepreneur at that time, so I wasn't thinking for my own business.

But in general, I just found it very fascinating. I'm sure in the past 10 years, those courses have probably adapted and changed so much. Like, if you just think about, like, 10 years ago, I don't believe Instagram was a thing, right? Like, we were, and that sort of thing. So it's one of those things, too, when you go to university or take any courses, really. That's not the end of it. That's on the end of your journey. You don't just go, like, well, I know everything now.

It's that ongoing kind of lifelong learning that I truly believe in. And I think marketing is a good example of, like, things change, environments change. I mean, I like the core background, the core learnings behind that. I'm like, why you implement certain marketing strategies, that's probably going to stay relatively consistent. But how it looks in the real world is what's going to change. So that's something I would probably take another course and learn about because it's, you know, the world's changing and you have to adapt to that, right? Absolutely.

Do you think that that's something that entrepreneurs or business owners should consider is going back to school just for a course or two in things to get those refreshers? Do you think that that would be useful? Yeah, I mean, I think to be hungry to learn and to know that you don't know everything and you might never and just be open to learning new things is something you're going to have to be due as an entrepreneur and be open to that for sure. Absolutely. move into the Van City side of things. So if you're an entrepreneur and you've got this business

idea, at what point in time should you be reaching out to financial institutions for support? Is it when you have a business plan and what relationship are you looking to build with the financial institution? I would say... Oh, just pull the mic up if you go. Sorry, I'm leaning back. I'm all casual now. I would say that there's no, you can't go too soon. The reason I say that is because I think one big thing is like as soon as you need help, ask for it. If you have any questions, ask. You don't have to be perfect. You don't have to have it all figured out when you have that first initial meeting.

If you find a good account manager or whatever, like, their title would be at their financial institution to talk with, like, make that connection. The other thing is, I think it's not necessarily you have to, like I don't want to scare people. but I notice a lot of the times people will ignore their own personal finances, but just focus on starting the business and that. And I feel like you need to have your own financial house and order as well, or at least it's helpful. So even if you don't have a business, make that connection, relationship at your financial institution, and assess your own stuff like your credit and how are your things going on your end. And then that way you, I think it builds a stronger foundation and it really helps like if you increase your um yeah your financial literacy and know

how you're operating your own kind of business your own self your own household um that's going to help strengthen when you move forward with the business i really like that because i think that a lot of entrepreneurs and small business owners have a lot of stress because they're managing the marketing they're managing um dealing with customers bringing an inventory whatever their business is but then they also have home financial stress of their mortgage and their car payments or their insurance and whatever that is so that trying to reduce that stress as soon as possible is important for them to be able to think clearly and manage their business properly.

So at what point, who would you speak to if you were going into a financial institution? Who would you be asking to speak to? And what would that conversation kind of look like? Yeah, so I've only worked for Van City. So I know other FIs, financial institutions, have different titles and that sort of stuff. But I would just go in and talk to whoever wants to talk to you and just say, hey, like, this is where I'm at and ask them who you should talk to. And then just know what you want, what you want to achieve out of that conversation. I love credit unions and I feel like they have, if you even just explore on their website, usually they have different programs for entrepreneurs.

Some have different courses you can take. Some provide different free downloads, like a business plan, template, that sort of thing. So if you're more of a do-it-yourself person, you can potentially get those resources for free as well. But if you'd rather just talk to someone and say, hey, I'm like, I have this great idea and I don't know where to start. I'm sure they would be able to at least point you in the right direction. Right. And then how does that conversation go if they're looking to get a loan or get financial support? How does that begin?

Is it a long process? Is it a short process? What does that look like? It totally depends. And often people think, I have this business idea. Okay, well, you don't necessarily have a business yet, and that's totally fine. But if you need financing, oftentimes with a financial institution, like a credit union or a bank, they're going to need two years financial statements.

They're going to need proof of income. And if you're not even generating income, if this is just merely a concept or an idea, then you might get discouraged right off the bat. but don't be discouraged because it's totally normal and fine to potentially need to finance some stuff personally at first. Typically, you're signing on these business loans in the future personally anyways, so like you're personally guaranteeing those loans anyways. So it's really not much different. I mean, you can still open a business account. And again, that account manager would advise you at that time what would make the most sense. Do you have a business name? Is it

registered? Do you want to do that first? that sort of thing. But maybe you go in and you're looking for financing because you have an idea, but you need to do X, Y, and Z before you make the next step. Well, what does that look like? Can you use your personal credit card? Do you have an operating line of credit personally? Do you own your own home? They'll kind of be able to help expand your horizon and see like, okay, not only here's where you are now, but this is where you want to be in the future and then kind of like help you get there. So it's kind of looking farther into the future and being, um, setting up for success now. Okay. So they can go look online for specifically Van

City and get some resources to get started. Then they have this meeting, um, where they get a little bit more direction on their personal finances and how that might impact their business in terms of just getting the assets they need if they need certain equipment. What is the relationship look like once they have a loan, once they've built that relationship. Yeah, I mean, the relationship, I think, could be whatever it looks like to you. Like, some people, they don't mind, like, and by people, I mean, like, the entrepreneurs would come in, and maybe they don't need to deal the same person all the time. I personally, like, I have a, I've had clients who they only want to see me, and, like, that's totally fine. And then you're able to

communicate through email, just check in. But very often, like, once you get the loan, if you don't know any other questions. I'm not going to bug you. Like, loans being paid, that's fine. I'm here if, you know, if and when they have any questions or concerns kind of thing. Do you think that that's true for most financial institutions, or do you think Van City takes a more hands-off approach with how they operate? I feel like Van City would take more of a hands-on approach. We're just not, like, that's just, we're not going to be checking in very often because we have so many clients potentially, right? So do you have to submit like your financial statements every year or every six months? It depends on the amount of the loans and stuff

like that. So I guess I'll explain to, I mean, I already kind of touched on it that when I was an account manager, I did some business stuff. Vancey now actually has, that's actually been specialized as well. So it's a business branch business account manager. So yeah, that's cool because I was doing two jobs apparently before, but now that's a whole separate title, which is good. I feel like that's what the business clients deserve because then maybe it is a bit more of a check-in because you have more time to focus on just your business clients. I also, you know, you can pop into their shop if they have like a bricks and mortar shop and like have them sign something and you can just be more hands on that way, which I really

liked. Then there's like another person kind of above that or another role that's above that that focuses on larger deals and that sort of thing. So the account manager in the branch might just be kind of just helping you get started with that loan to buy your equipment or the loan to do like an operational line of credit is just kind of to help as a buffer, right? So for your payroll and that sort of thing, your visa or master card for operating expenses and that sort of stuff. It gets your base stuff done. And that might be the only level you need. That's just, you know, up to like, say, $50,000 or something. Maybe that's all you need. But if you're looking at doing a larger buildout, or you're buying property, like,

and you need to do, maybe you're building, you're building out a facility on bare land. Like, that's a little bit more complex. You're going to talk to a different specialist at that point. I know for myself personally, I still like to maintain that connection. You know, it's a warm, hey, this is so-and-so, they're going to be helping you with that. I'm still here. I'm, you know, I'm at the branch. I know your background. Like, I'm here to support you. Yeah. And then it just goes from there. So that is awesome because I think that that's partly what's so important is having those connections and feeling supported in this. You're taking a huge risk. You're putting yourself out there. And I think having that support is so necessary. Can you give us a little

bit of the landscape of how loans work, lines of credit. For some listeners, this might be a little bit more complicated, but I think that these are the conversations that you're first having in the bank, and it's very intimidating. So if we can get a little bit of the information out about how the loans work, what the lines of credit look like, just in a broad sense, it might make listeners feel a little bit more comfortable. Sure, yeah, just a quick, cool notes. Like, I would say right off the back credit card, you want to get a separate credit card versus the one you use for personal stuff. It's going to help bookkeeping a lot easier. You know, people always talk about those write-offs and like, oh, my business lunches and, oh, I had to buy this. And, okay,

maybe consult or, you know, take a marketing course or non-marketing course, but accounting course. But yeah, you want to keep that separate so you know what was a business expense versus your personal expense right off the bat. Plus, there's other benefits for using a credit card and that sort of thing, having maybe if there's monthly payments coming off, like a cell phone bill, like have that runoff of your credit card. And then you have a checking account where your revenues come in and your expenses come out as well, like maybe payroll. With that, I definitely recommend getting an operating line of credit. So operating line of credit is something that's revolving. Usually it starts at around $5,000 to $10,000. It's like $10,000 is attached to your

checking account. That way, you know, you're a busy entrepreneur, you're running your business, and you wrote a bunch of payroll checks, and all of a sudden, who before you know it, it's Friday, and they clear your account, but you know what, you were short a couple of bucks, but because you have this operating line of credit, you go into it, basically, meaning that it's like a, it's a revolving loan, so you don't have to apply for it every month or anything like that. It's just, it's stuck.

Once you apply and you qualify and you get it, it's just there. Yeah, so the idea is that it is revolving. It's kind of like a cup, and you go into it, you drink it, and then you fill it back up, and that being filled back up is with money. And, yeah, so that's basically that it helps just, it's peace of mind. You don't have to constantly know exactly to the penny what you have in there. It's a buffer.

It helps with cash flow. So cash flow is a huge thing in terms of business as well as like business plan writing because sometimes, you know, it's not always the same. Like every month isn't always the same revenue coming in. Some people have downtime, down seasons, right? Like summer might be slower for people, that sort of thing. So it helps, again, it's a buffer. Whereas a loan, so when we talk about loans, they're fixed.

They have fixed terms. They're not revolving. They are three years, five years, seven years, kind of thing. And that would be the term length. And then there would be like an interest rate and you have a monthly payment that's made up of principal interest. So it's very concrete. You know, like, I'm lending you $10,000 and you're going to,

to pay me back X amount each month, and after four years, it's gone, it's done, and that's nice. It reduced risks on both parties part, and it usually is a decent interest rate kind of thing, better than a credit card, so you don't be buying stuff that you don't plan on paying off for four years on a credit card. And typically for business alone like that is to buy something tangible, like equipment and that sort of thing, or supplies, get you starting. that sort of stuff. Okay, so that would be like buying equipment if you're starting a restaurant or getting inventory if you're selling clothing. I'm interested to also understand a little bit more about what you've seen in Van City and kind of what the landscape is of entrepreneurs in the Fraser Valley.

And have you seen mistakes or things that you always see that you're like, ah, like if I could get the word out on like approaching this differently or being cognizant of this more? um that i would i would say that oh that's a great question and um i mean yeah i think i think entrepreneurs and business owners there's so much weight on them already and stresses so i don't want to say like this is what you're doing wrong as well let's add to the list because i feel like a lot of us already wear a lot of that on our shoulders so i would say with mistakes they're always learning opportunities and sometimes you don't you think you made a mistake but that's just in this one moment. We don't know what that looks like a year from now or six months from now, right?

So it's always like, wait, wait and see. Let's see how this actually shakes out at the end of things. So that's my being super nice. I guess just kind of if there's any tips or kind of patterns I see, I would say I'm a bit of a business plan nerd. So I would say, do the business plan. A lot of people shy away from it. It's intimidating and I fully understand that. But I like it. It's good, A, you need it to start, like, if you want to do any lending, you're going to have to fill it out. And usually people just kind of look at it as a, it's just a checkbox. I have to check. Like, I don't want to do this.

But if you have a different relationship with it, it can be a blueprint to your future. And it can be exciting. And I would also say to look back on it and keep it as like a living dynamic document where, okay, two years down, like, let's read it. And maybe you're going to laugh and be like, oh, I thought this was important back there. But now I've reassessed. So, yeah. And because it's for yourself, it doesn't necessarily have to be that.

Like, that doesn't have to be structured. But the business plan you would write for a lender would be different when you're asking someone for money versus this document that I'm talking about that you can keep for yourself to just check in, see where you're at, and make sure you're on track and that sort of thing. I think once you start, there's like this beautiful, like, aura around just starting the new business. There's excitement. And then once you're in it, it's like, holy hell, what just happened? And you're like, and you're just in it.

And you forget about all the plans and the great ideas you had because you're just, you're just running the business, which can sometimes be very time consuming. And things, optics look, it looks different when you're in it versus you can be above it and just looking down and like planning. and you have the time and you're able to breathe. And yeah, so sometimes it just looks different. And I would encourage people to just have that pause, step back, look. Make sure you're still doing like your whole, you're still in line with your why and why you're even going down this path to begin with. Because sometimes you get pulled into a certain direction or you get really hyper-focused on something.

And it's just don't be scared to just pause and reflect. And yeah. there's a lot of parallels to the business plan to following a calendar because I hear a lot of people say, I don't want to keep a calendar. I don't want to have all my to do list all laid out all the time. And it's like, but you can put in floating. You can put in the positive things into your calendar where you have a positive relationship with your calendar. And yes, you're going to have some responsibilities. You're going to have to take out the dishes or do whatever kind of responsibilities you have in your day to day. But you can also put in those positive things. And it kind of sounds like that.

what you're arguing with the business plan is don't just look at it as your duties and responsibilities look at it as your future and the possibilities and make sure you tie the two together so you actually do want to go look at it can you lay out a little bit more of what you would want people to put into a business plan not because you work at an city but because like what are the things in there that will help people be more successful if they take the time to go through and create a business plan yeah well i'll circle back a little bit too to just again, like another tip or things I see people potentially do that I'm like, hey, you shouldn't do that. And that's asking for help. And I think that that goes along the same lines as the

business plan is there would be two main focuses on the business plan I would recommend. One is the numbers piece. I guess that's a little bit of the Vanity part sneaking out where we want people to know that they've thought about it and that they're, that they are comfortable with those numbers kind of thing. So cash flow projections are really big for lenders, but also it makes sense because when I was looking to do one for Luna float, I was like, oh, it's not much easier telling someone to do it versus doing it yourself. And especially when your passion, you're like, I don't care. I just want to do it. I don't care of the numbers, like what they look like. But they don't have to be perfect, but just if you start the process, if you take one step

forward, try to get some accurate numbers, it just opens up more information. That's good. It's also helpful, so you can just be more adaptable. You can see ahead. It's like driving, right? Like, when you drive, you look ahead of where you're driving to. You don't just look like a foot in front of you. You have to look farther or else you're going to be, you know, oh no, all of a sudden there's a corner and you have to like take it really quickly. Like you want to be able to anticipate what's ahead. Um, yeah, and then you're just better prepared. Uh, so that's the numbers piece. And then the passion piece, like why you're doing what you're doing, what sets you apart from other businesses that might be similar to you. Uh, I think that's a huge one as well.

And just like pour out everything that you're thinking and feeling about what your business looks like and, you know, check it back to why you're doing this. Because that becomes your becomes your mandate. It becomes your culture with your staffing. It helps with branding. Like it's just, it's so much like if you have this idea and this feeling, get it out on paper, draw. And this is the thing. It doesn't have to necessarily be like, I'm typing up this boring document. I love working with creative people. Paint it. Like, be inspired. Like, whatever it works, like, however it works for you. It's for you. So, yeah, I think that would be cool. That's awesome. Can you tell us about how to get the numbers? Where do you go? Where do you

research in order to, you have this idea in your head, there's nothing like it in Chilliwack. How do you figure out whether or not it's financially viable or what the cash flow projections might look like? Right. So it's hard. It can be hard. Depending on the business, you can try to find similar businesses and ask them for help. I think I'm a huge believer in, collaboration. And, you know, with opening a float center, the closest one at the time was in Langley. So, I mean, it was kind of nice because it was like, hey, like, I'm not your direct competition. Like, and I think, I mean, I lucked out because floating is a very collaborative community. And we just think that, you know, the more people floating the better. And so a lot of

people who I reached out to were super, I mean, besides the fact that they're entrepreneurs and they're busy, they were, like with a time, they did make a little bit of time for me to give me some of their numbers. So that helped. At least you get numbers. The other thing with doing cash flow projections is you might, like it depends, like we talked to someone from Whistler. Well, obviously their expenses might be a bit higher. But that's fine. I would recommend doing three different projections. They do kind of like your, your highs, your lows, and then somewhere in between. So that way you're kind of looking at all of the scenarios. potentially. Right. Is there any websites people can visit if there's like a more common business

that they're thinking of starting, like a restaurant? I mean, I think a good website would be small business BC. They have a lot of different courses, like little webinars, and they have a lot of downloadable content as well, like business plans and stuff like that. Okay. So I'm also interested to make sure that we talk about because a lot of, we've touched on this already, that passion is a huge thing for entrepreneurs and their drive and their willingness to push ahead and try and bring something positive to the community and I've heard it compared to like the hero myth of seeing a problem and trying to fix that and address it in the community obviously you're an excellent example because with Luna float

you've had your own health struggles and you brought something to the community that helps other people address their health struggles so I'm interested to know what you've seen in terms of the entrepreneurial spirit and what you think that does in our community? I just think that entrepreneurs, like, if you know one, give them a hug. Because very often, like, I mean, we talk about numbers, but often that's not the driving force, in my experience, that's not the driving force of why people open a business. I mean, it should be, right, to make money, that's what we're told.

But often, there's so many other reasons why people do this. And oftentimes, you know, they are, they're putting. their own financial, like, assets on the line. They're taking out loans in their own name. They're taking out their savings and, and putting, investing it into this idea, into this business that they believe in. And they're, if they have employees, they're, they're paying their employees and they're supporting them. And often they put themselves last, right? So, yeah, I guess, Like, there, I see people out there who, I've always felt as a lender that I needed to warn people in a way that this isn't the easy way out. Like, some people are like, maybe they're a plumber or like they work for someone else and they're like, well, I can own my own company.

Like, I'm good at this and I can just start my own company. But it's like, okay, yeah, but you're really good at doing this plumbing, for instance. But are you going to be okay, like bidding on jobs? doing like having employees that um you're responsible for and maybe the answer is yes and that's fine but it's just it's so much more so you have to be i think you have to have something more like there has to be more of a passion or a purpose behind it more not just oh i could do this and then it's easier i'd rather work for myself because it's easier like i wouldn't say it's easier it's different and there's obviously like pros and cons to being an employee or being self-employed.

But I would just always kind of caution people that it's not just like, oh, hit the easy button, I'll just work for myself and I don't have to answer to anyone. It's like, okay, and very often longer days, you know, because you're doing more, you're playing more roles. So the good news is most of the time people knew that, especially if they're starting their business, they would rather work. 10 hours a day, 12 hours a day for themselves, then eight hours, seven hours a day for someone else kind of thing.

Like, you have to be kind of okay with that, maybe at least starting out. So I think most of them, they got to it, they were at a point in their life where they're like, yep, that's fine. I'm doing it. And, yeah, that's where the passion comes in. I guess it keeps you going. Yeah, it's definitely a lot of hours. And it is putting it in for yourself, building your own brand, building your own name,

and having something that you can have confidence in. I'm also just interested to wrap up this Van City discussion on what you think the landscape is for somebody should they be going to different financial institutions and talking to different people or is that less necessary? I know with mortgages, often people shop around and try and find the best rate. Is that what somebody should be doing

or should they be trying to figure out who is going to support them the best? What do you think people should be looking for when they're trying to choose between all the big banks, Van City, Prospera, all these different organizations, is there something that should help inform their decision? Yeah, another great question. I mean, I don't think there's a specific right answer. I would be more, I guess, go with your gut and intuition.

Someone that you feel is listening to you and is supportive. If you can't go into your financial institution and feel heard or comfortable even going in, then that's going to be a barrier and that's going to be an issue. You want to do business with someone that you are comfortable with. So I would say to a degree you might want to shop around. When it comes to lending, you don't want to go into a bunch of financial institutions. I'd be like, hey, I want to apply for a loan. Because that actually is like a hit on your credit bureau each time you do it.

And it just might. I mean, it's not the end of the world, but it would affect your credit to a degree because it would be looking like you're searching for credit. And you want to get all of these loans everywhere. I think you could probably narrow it down to, like, convenience. Like, you're going to go somewhere what's close to you. Maybe it's where you do your banking already and you already have a relationship. Maybe you just didn't know that they also could help you in that other capacity.

I would ask friends and family if they have any recommendations. I would, I guess one thing I would look for in a lender or, like, someone to have a relationship with in that regard, would be, again, like, collaboration, like not an organization. that's just like you have to only deal with us and like kind of like like I'm also part of the solid community futures lending committee so community futures is a huge like I would refer to people starting a business as well because they offer different programs they offer maybe even more hands-on support with business plan writing and that sort of thing and you don't have to have everything in one place like it's not like often financial institutions are very um they're they have to follow certain rules and mitigate risk and so while you know

starting new business can be perceived as pretty risky yeah often like banks are more like in again like I said two years that we need proof of income whereas when you're first starting out you're just not going to have that so you need people to take a chance on you there's a term micro loan so again like I know um Van City has different programs and that sort of thing but you don't have to get it all at the one one place. BDC is also like a large business lending kind of institution. What is BDC? What does that stand for business development? Corporation? Maybe. And so BDC is great actually from like I have lending through them as well. So yeah, they require a business plan. But they might be able to do a little bit more. So I'll just use Looniflow.

an example. We had to do a big build-out. We got into a space that was brand new. So it was actually not being built yet. It was just a pile of dirt when I was walking by in Garrison. And yeah, saw the sign coming soon. And so we looked at the floor plan and we actually ended up applying to lease two units and then we were going to combine it into one. So we had to put a lot of money into doing the rest of the build out, like pouring concrete, redirecting plumbing. And it's a tough, like, sell, I guess, for, like, a smaller, not even a smaller financial institution, but it's not as neat and tidy as, oh, I need money to build, or, like, for clothing so I can sell the clothing.

Like, that's retail. That's kind of makes sense. Like, you're buying it at this low price. I'm going to resell it for this higher price. It's tangible. With leasehold improvements, you don't take the walls back with you when you, like, you know, you don't get to take that nice polished concrete with you. So it's obviously essential to opening the business, but it doesn't directly help you earn

revenue, right? Like, build it and they will come. So it would be considered higher risk. And, yeah, it's not like something you can take security on. Like, if I'm buying a work vehicle and it doesn't pan out, like that financial institution can seize that asset potentially, right? Like, there's nothing you can seize. There's not...

So anyways, it's deemed higher risk, larger amounts of money. So then, yeah, you might have to go to BDC or something like that for that. So I think a lender or having a relationship with someone at your financial institution who's not worried about just getting what's best for you, doing what's, like,

the right thing for that person versus, like, oh, it has to all be through me, and if it's not, then you can't get it. Like, why would you hide that from someone? if that's their best next step kind of thing, right? Yeah, it sounds like a wraparound approach is what's going to make the difference for someone. We've led into Luna float. Can you tell us what you were thinking when you were getting started,

some of the things you felt like you needed to check your boxes on, whether it was marketing or getting the word out? What were you thinking when you were getting started? Yeah, I mean, like I said, it's like the honeymoon phase. I miss those times. It was a simpler time where you're not fully. open. Like, you're not, you're not operating yet, but I started social media marketing right off the bat. Like, I think almost a year before we even opened, it was kind of like

just putting it out there. And I feel like it's something that we did well early on, and we got the word out there. Growing up in Chilliwack, there's been times where I've seen that, like, going on a business sale on a restaurant or a place, and you're just like, what, I didn't even know that was a thing. And, you know, because you're just doing your same route and you go to the same places and you just missed out. You didn't realize there was a new store kind of thing. And then it's too late. And I didn't want to be that. I didn't want to be that statistic. I wanted people to know that we existed. We did other things to you. We kind of just were like, okay, let's do radio. Let's do everything. See what works. And then we'll kind of narrow it down to what works with our demographic and that sort of thing. But yeah, early on, it was. Because, yeah, kind of, I liked the fun parts of, like, branding and, yeah, doing the social media posts and that sort of thing. Once the business is up and running, sometimes I feel, like, even now, like, we're almost, this October is going to be our fourth year being open, and there's still a huge list of things I haven't done yet that I'm like, oh, no, it's been four years, has been four years, that I want to do with regards to marketing. But in my defense, I've always maintained that I wanted slow organic growth. want. So for me, that's less word of mouth. Part of marketing, I think that it's just

wowing the clients, the customers that you have who are there already and coming in so that they are going to refer people, their friends and family, and just educate people when they come in. And then that's kind of your marketing. That's, yeah. That's awesome. And I think that you do a really good job of that because that's how you came onto Rebecca and I's radar is you do a really good job of creating a community of people who can share their flow to experiences, sharing updates, being involved in the community. And so I'm interested to get why you started LunaFloat and what was that community piece for you. Yeah, so I started LunaFloat. I always kind of joke that I did it for myself because I didn't want to drive all the way out to

Vancouver to float. And I mean, it was true. So I really found floating for anxiety and stress. I was so surprised that something could help so much. Like, you're just lying there, doing nothing. How could this help? But it was definitely, yeah, the calm in the storm kind of thing. It helped me rest, relax, recharge, sleep better, just things that were super, I think, very common in this day and age, in society.

And it made me, I guess, a little bit more brave to share my stories. And the more open I was to share about that, it's kind of like if you show, you know, if you're authentic with other people, then they are authentic back. And so it's, I think, made people feel comfortable to share their own stories. And it was like, okay, right there. Like, it's ending stigma against mental health and just kind of owning your own story and being comfortable with what that looks like and what you need to help yourself kind of thing. So I feel like right now we're constantly all about being busy and that's like almost like a badge of honor but burnout's a real thing and it's hard when it's not yeah like a physical element or ailment

where someone can say oh yeah this is what's wrong with you i can clearly see but when it's behind like below the surface kind of thing and then people aren't as necessarily um empathetic or, you know, sympathetic to your issues. But it's very real. So we see people who, yeah, who are struggling with anxiety or depression or PTSD or even more physical things that are still invisible like fibromyalgia and other chronic pain conditions. So while we all have our own different stories, I think that was kind of our common bond.

And not that everyone who floats needs to have some, you know, trauma or some stories. like it can just be to rest and relax like as a new mom I think I could still say that he's just turned one I'm realizing just like kind of the cliches are true and just how important taking time for yourself is and how hard it is to take an hour or two out of your day for yourself but you totally need to to kind of refill your cup and yeah so I think I just love hearing other people's story and if they're getting something out of it and they want to share that with us. It's awesome. And I think just to know that you're not alone in your experience, just as helpful. That's fantastic. I'm interested to know how you approach

hiring in that regard, because it sounds like you do have your own story. But how did you, and how do you go about choosing who's going to be representing your business when you're not there? Because I think that that's where right now it feels like hiring interviews is a hot topic on social media right now of trying to bring in the right people and having people actually show up and be passionate and kind of share the same passion as you with regards to your business. Yeah. So it's kind of funny because I loved human resources in university, but I never went that route. But again, it plays in different elements of like the psychology piece as well. We're all very unique. We did the Myers-Briggs, just stuff like that. So I find it very interesting.

And yet, I didn't take a very structured approach when I did my hiring. I went with more of that, like, gut approach. Kind of kept it casual. Did the whole, like, ask questions and that sort of thing. When we first opened, because we did the social media, because we, you know, we're marketing, I feel like our branding was really on point and authentic early on. And so it kind of, like, was shining this light, this, like, bat signal. of you know kind of who I was and people either resonated with it or didn't and so right just from the

get go we attracted somewhat like like-minded people um or not even like like-minded I mean I guess like-minded but I want people to be unique like I don't want just to hire people who are exactly like me um I just I believe that you can train I mean I wasn't looking for people who had float therapy facilitator experience because what are the chances of that um so So early on, I was just like, but I think it can be applied to other things. Like, that's something common like the restaurant. Sure, it's probably a lot easier to find someone who's worked at a restaurant than someone who's worked at a float center, right?

But you can teach people the job. What you can't teach people is caring, is being creative, wanting to help people, that sort of thing. So I think what I was looking for early on were people who were compassionate, caring people. because we're serving them like we might we're not like a massage therapist but we're there doing the massage but we're curating an experience for these people and sometimes afterwards people want to talk and share and you know just being there for people holding space like that's something um that I thought was important so when we're talking and having like a casual conversation or interview I was paying attention to how you know engaging with this person

made me feel and how, you know, they would present themselves in that kind of environment, I guess. Um, also, you know, there's just that, like, it's not a glamorous job. You're cleaning the showers and, you know, it's just, and you're doing a lot of different kind of random stuff. So someone who was, you know, just not like, just being very honest with what the job entails and also being honest, like sharing your stories. I'm a huge believer in stories. So sharing the stories with the potential employee and seeing if that resonates with them and like kind of like explaining your why and then maybe that just helps them like have their own why and then it just helps when you go into work every day when you have something better like bigger than just a paycheck

it's it's something more right they get more out of this job than just the paycheck and the the free flips and stuff like that as a nice perk but um and i mean i think like i offered and forget, and I feel like I'm just lucky. I've been very fortunate to have a lot of amazing employees come, and some have gone because they've, maybe they've done something on their own, or they've moved, but, like, it's always been a very rewarding relationship, whether they've stayed or gone. So sometimes I think I'm just lucky, but then I think back, I'm like, must have done something, right? And even over COVID, like, we were having, we missed each other, and so we would have Zoom calls and as soon as we could reopen like they were back they like we reopened

when we wanted to June 1st and there was no hiccups like all four or five people who were employed at that time came back and I think that's just really a testament to them believing in what we're doing for our community that's that's so fantastic to hear and I think there's a lot of important things that you've said through bringing these people on because I think that you've done a really good job of finding people who represent your business well and who are passionate, and I'm just interested to know what you think of the resume cover letter process, because I think that sometimes that ends up moving people away from the passion and giving people a list of duties and responsibilities rather than talking about the why

and why you're joining this team. And I'm just interested to know, do you think that we sometimes move too much in that direction? Do you think that that's really valuable to have people's credentials laid out? what are your thoughts from your perspective as a business owner when you get to see the impact of choosing people based on the conversation rather than what they've written up on a piece of paper? Yeah, that's great. I mean, it's difficult because how do you get your foot in the door and how do you get in front of the person making that hiring decision, right? I'm not at Luna float as often anymore. And I think one of our, my favorite stories, I guess, one of the first people I hired was

she was amazing and she really helped actually the first people we hired I mean because it wasn't like this is McDonald's and we have a a franchise and we know exactly like everything right off the bat as soon as we open the doors I was still learning as we go we were still like kind of creating policies and procedures like so these people had to be super adaptable and think on their feet and be confident to give me feedback and say hey this is what I I think and this is how I'm doing things and like we would talk about it. And so yeah, it was really awesome. The first couple of people that we had were just great. And everyone since then has been great too. It's just been different because those people kind of paved the way for the next

and so on and so forth. And I don't know if I would recommend this, but I guess because we were posting a lot on social media, husband and I were going to take part of Namaste Hiking Co's event. it was at Mount Tom and we're going to do this little hike and then do yoga on the top and she was like oh Luna Flit's going so she just like signed up and like did the hike and then on the way down she was like so anyway it's high

and like saddled up next to me and was basically like this is why you should hire me and it was first I was like oh my gosh like we're in the woods I'm like this interesting person who's basically stalked me and I but then I kind of loved it too and it was

creative it was a creative way to have that conversation. And again, it's how people make you feel. And by the time we got to the end, I was like, yeah, like, we're friends. And I definitely, like, let's continue this conversation. And I don't regret hiring her. She was amazing. So I do feel like, yes, the resume piece is kind of like a necessary evil, if you want to call it that.

But because you want to, like, have that conversation, how do you bridge that? How do you start that? yeah you can another one who is currently working for us she she stopped in and i happened to be working so she um yeah i was like hey i want to work here tell me what i need to know and here's my questions and this is why i'd be great and at first i was like oh again like you're kind of like wow taken back but again both those people when they have in common passion and um yeah and so she's been a great hire as well other than that like yeah sometimes these resumes come across my my desk, so to speak.

And so now all of a sudden you are kind of like having to judge this person or assess this person based on some words on a piece of paper. And you're trying to like, you're trying to make it more, you're trying to fill in the gaps. You're trying to like, what does this mean that she was, she did this or he did that, like, for work. Like, you're trying to decipher like and pick like, would this be, and you don't know. You don't know, really.

So, again, you want to put something on it that is, going to maybe be interesting, pique the person's interest. But I think you have to, if you want to be serious, follow up, right? Try to reach and connect with that person. Just dropping off the resume isn't going to be enough. And I know, like, yeah, with what's going on social media right now, it's kind of like, well, I don't need to do that because I'm like, people are screaming that there's a kind of like a shortage of good employees. And so there's that confidence piece and that's great um that's probably not the person who necessarily like needs to work with us like if they don't if they're not passionate about working for lunafloat um for our guests

then that's fine um if they're just more like yeah throwing out resumes and seeing what sticks like then that's that's totally some like that's a strategy i guess um but we're kind of looking for someone who's not just looking for a job but they're looking for yeah a little bit more that whole like you know contributing and being part of a team and um who knows a little bit about the business and maybe i'm being maybe i get i'm just lucky and that i can come from a place of saying like i can pick and choose like um who i think is going to be a good fit and who's going to enjoy being part of the team um because i know yeah people are struggling to find uh good workers right now it seems but uh yeah i just see your passion come through and i feel like that resonates

with people. And then I see other small businesses not doing that and saying, here's my job posting. It's on Craigslist. And it's just here's what you'll get paid. Here's your duties. Here's your responsibilities. And that's it. And to me, that misses the population that you really want, which are going to be passionate about being healthy or participating in the passion. And I think that you've done a really good job at branding yourself as that sharing your story and getting that out there, but I'm also interested to know what is it like to now have employees? What is that responsibility like? How is that rewarding to build a team? Yes, I have to remind myself that it's rewarding because sometimes it's hard. It's like silly

because I know that this was a part of it and I know about human resources and I know about business. But once you're in it, there's sometimes these realizations like, oh, they're a responsibility as well. Like as much as, you know, you're hiring them. and they have responsibility to do the job, to, again, like, yeah, the cleaning and all that sort of stuff, but to represent your brand, to make your guests feel, you know, a certain way. But you also have a huge responsibility to them, that, again, it's not just, oh, well, I pay them, and that's it. You have to, like, they're human beings.

They're, like, all, I'm glad, like, you don't have to be friends, I guess, with all of them, but I just happen to be friends with them, I think, because they're awesome people, and it's hard for me to, yeah, just not want to get to know them better. And, like, obviously, that's looked different over COVID. But we, like, this summer, we hadn't been able to do, like, a team bonding thing.

And so we actually went to Caldus Lake, and we did the paddleboarding, and it was able, yeah, it was just, like, a good time to, like, be able to connect. Because these are people who have their own lives, Like, they don't, they're not going to necessarily, as passionate and as amazing as my employees are, they also are their own people. They have their own life.

They have their own family. They have their own passions and wants and needs and all that stuff. And I think it's so important to know those things and not just assume that these, those person's coming in and they owe you something. They're taking care of my baby, which is Luna float, my first baby, second baby. and you're doing more than just paying them to thank them you like I just always thought like I don't like vacations a good time like when we do the scheduling I listen to everyone's input so you're giving them your time as well like they're giving you their time in exchange for a paycheck but also you're giving them your time to listen and hear them what empowers them

what motivates them like why wouldn't you why wouldn't you want because I think maybe that is why they're having a shortage of employees it's like you're not offering them what they need it's not just about the pay for them it's connecting with a group of people

it's being heard it's having flexibility autonomy having that work life balance like whatever it is for people I find I often also have hired people who are entrepreneurial spirited as well. So like right now we have someone who is a photographer as well. And so I'm very supportive of that. You know, we've hung and some of her photography in our space to sell for her.

We've, you know, I'm cognitive of her schedules and when she needs to, like, do shoots and stuff like that. We've hired her for different shoots, right? It's just about, again, like the collaboration piece. And I want them to succeed in all of their facets. of their life, not just here at Luna flow, right? So I just think if you can, I mean, maybe that's not easy for other businesses. We only have four or five employees at a time. So I understand with like other businesses where there's more employees, but don't just lose them as like a number and like, oh yeah, we have too many employees to do that. Like I still think in some capacity you have to be able to be more attainable, approachable. And yeah, it's a

relationship. And if you want them to work hard for you, I think you need to work hard for them and however that looks and what they need. I think that that's really important because I think of that disconnect occurring and then that disconnect occurring with that employee and the customer and that over time taking place where if you're not connecting with your team, then they're not going to connect as well with your customers. And then long term, that's going to have impact on the viability of anybody's business. And so I think continuing that relationship is so important. And I'm really grateful to hear that because I think that that is where the soul of like Luna float or whatever the business is is so important to keep in mind because most

entrepreneurs start with a passion and then by five years, maybe 10 years, they start to disconnect from the people doing the day-to-day work and then that starts to cause problems for them. I'm also interested to know about Stolo Community Futures. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got involved and about the organization? Right. So Community Futures, Um, it's all throughout, yeah, BC, like the Lower Mainland and stuff. Um, like there's community features South Fraser. Um, Stalo community features is just a community community features with an indigenous lens. So while any indigenous entrepreneur can go to any, um, community features for, for help. Um, and or lending, um, Stalo is kind of like just for indigenous entrepreneurs. Uh, it's located off better at Stala. And, and, um, And I got into it because of VanCity. I was working with entrepreneurs and I've been with them for like six or seven years. So I don't actually even remember, to be honest, how, who met, like how we bumped into each other, how that actually started.

I'm thinking maybe like VanCity had a indigenous kind of liaison rep from their head office who would come to all different communities and help with different. things and I think maybe he introduced us and then yeah from there basically it made sense like they wanted they really cool like so the committee they have a board of directors and then they have a committee that makes kind of like the um some of the decisions on some of the larger lending other than that they have like a basic account manager who would be the person you would talk to who would help you with your business plan and give you a loan or not at a certain point a threshold they would have to refer to a committee to get approval. So they, so you would give their, your business plan to them, and then they would kind of do their due diligence and then present it to the committee

saying, this is why I want to give this person this money, da, da, da, da, da, and give you all of the details. And then as a committee, we would, we would discuss and deliberate and that sort of thing. So early on, we had, again, kind of a diverse group of people. My background was my business background as well as my financial literacy background being a lender myself I knew what we looked for maybe we were a little bit more um not structured but like risk averse like we're all about mitigating risk and we need the two years whereas community features was a little bit more flexible a little bit of that micro alone kind of piece whereas i mean vansity is really good though about like looking at the whole picture and your character and all that stuff like we we try as hard as we

could. But again, community features was a different avenue as well. And we had an elder who didn't really have a lot of financial background, but she brought a lot of other huge assets to those deliberations as well. So yeah, and then that's always changed with people coming and going throughout the committee. But great, like a great group of people. And they do so much for the community they create there's also different workshops you can take and yeah very hands-on over COVID we're reaching out trying to like support entrepreneurs however they needed yeah just can't say enough good things about them over there awesome what would people expect if they were considering reaching out and what point in time should they be reaching out is this something

where they could reach out when they just have an idea or should they already have a business in place. What can people expect? They should totally reach out, even if they just have an idea. Yeah, they're a great resource, and they'll take the time to talk through those things with you. They might even be able to refer other clients like that, might be able to help, like, almost in a mentor kind of way, which I think is really cool. Or, again, point them in the right direction of, okay, you. here's your next steps and come back to us after you've done this, this, and this.

Or they have books, like, here's some suggestions on what you could do. And, yeah, you know, wealth of information. So, and if they have, they run less different workshops. So there might be a workshop coming up that would be super interesting for them and that sort of thing. Can you tell us a little bit about the loans process? You mentioned microloans. How does that all look? And from your position, as somebody who gets to help make the decision,

decision? What are people typically looking for in your position? Well, I mean, I guess I use the term microloan, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're small loans. They can be quite large. For me, I mean, they make it so easy for the committee, honestly, because they've already done the due diligence. They've already done it. So if they're presenting it to the committee, like, quite often, very rarely are we like, no, I think you've completely, yeah, like, are completely wrong and this is a terrible idea. Like, that never happens.

But there might be, like, other things that, um, depending on the committee, right? Like, we might be a little bit more risk adverse that day and we're like, I don't know, we want this, this and this first. So then we, she would just go back, um, to the, the person off asking for the money kind of thing and maybe that would have to be done first before we lend or, um, yeah, just different things. So sometimes it's not always a no, but like, how about we do this as well? And but again, really, I mean, it's pretty easy. Because as a lender at Van City, you're the one doing the due diligence and it's kind of on you.

You're making that decision typically. In this case, the committee is working together to just, again, trying to, because maybe a larger amount, we're just making sure all the T's are crossed, eyes are dotted, that sort of thing. What order do you think people should go in, or is there one in regards to to going to friends and family first for a loan or getting financial support to contacting like South Fraser Community Futures or Stolo Community Futures to going to Van City. Is there any preference or recommendation on where they should start? I mean, it's so personal, right?

Like I would say wherever you think you should start is where you should start. Usually it's going to be your own like resources. so probably just I guess whoever you're more comfortable with I would if you're an indigenous entrepreneur I would highly recommend solid community futures and they're going to cross-refer as well right like I had lots of referrals from them when I was a business account manager

and they'll yeah they'll help direct you into different ways if you already have a relationship with someone at your financial institution go to them the friends and family one is a tough it's a tough one because um there's there's a lot of emotions um when you're passionate about something and i would probably i would hesitate to tell someone to do something or not to do something when it comes to family but i think i would probably try to avoid that at first for a couple different reasons um one you don't want to get talked out of it per se like Especially if it comes to, like, you're asking family for money, and, like, now they're going to be critiquing you because they're like, okay, well, if I'm going to lend you money, like, I want to make sure it's a good idea.

And they're not lenders. They don't know how to, like, they might not know how to mitigate risk or how to view a business and in that regard. So they might just be like, ah, it's too risky, no. And now, not only do you have no money, but you now have all these negative, like, thoughts and feelings. And so it might not be the best. or it might harm your relationship and that sort of thing. So, I mean, again, it depends on how much money that you're asking for potentially, but I personally, I mean, that being said, I mean, I didn't help to get some help from my family at some point.

So it's a very real thing, but would I start there? Probably not. Just because when you're starting out, you're already shaky, you might already be kind of like having some doubts. And you just really want to make sure whatever is going to help you, your confidence and again they're not professional lenders unless they are they happen to be so i probably avoid that just for the first a little bit but that does make me think of other unique ways of getting funding like crowdsourcing and that sort of thing right like that's kind of similar where friends and family could help and it helps as well proof of concept so i've seen other

float centers, say they want to bring in like ice baths or something like that or an infrared sauna, which we happen to have. But, you know, sometimes instead of just like getting a loan for it or buying it, they're like, okay, guys, if you want an ice bath, let's start doing some crowdfunding. So like, and we kind of did this in a roundabout way. Like when we started, we did pre-sell membership, so it helps build capital before you're even open potentially. And then it's also a proof of concept. Like, look at 100 people signed up and gave us 50 bucks or whatever it might be, right? So not only you're getting a little bit of cash flow your way, but you're also able to use it to show a lender that, hey, like, people believe in me. And this is a thing,

and there's a want for it. That is fantastic. And it kind of leads into another question I have. What was the most intimidating part of starting Luna float? Was it the business incorporation where you're like getting these official documents that says it's incorporated, was it when the money came in and now it's time to start doling it out? What was the hardest part of starting it? I mean, I'm obviously very fortunate that I had the background with lending and navigating the business plan, that sort of thing. So I think what comes to mind is actually why I had to finally eventually reach out to family was the 11th hour kind of thing we were working with BDC to do the build out loans and all that good stuff actually that almost fell through which was so

scary because like we had already started buying things like we already had like everything was like the wheels were in motion and there was like a big hiccup and that was really scary I mean we obviously got through it um honestly I don't even know how. It just, it was like meant to be. And so I just, I was tenacious. I wouldn't take no for an answer. And it worked out. Long story short. But what was happening was we were going to lease our float tanks, the four float tanks. And the leasing company that was recommended to us was, well, how do I want to say this? We basically signed something at a certain rate. And then of the 11th hour, they were like, actually, your rate's going to be. this and it was like four times like putting it basically on credit card and that was unacceptable and it felt really like underhanded and I was not happy and I at that point had different options I could maybe go through SCF like to all community features or I can get another personal loan like we don't have to lease it or we'll look for another leasing company but at that point

I was just like so mad because he felt he knew that we were in a hard place. because like we need these he's the one in our like our way of getting it and so we basically were going to be so desperate that we would sign anything kind of thing that's how I felt and I was more like at least I'm educated and confident enough to know that this is wrong whereas I'm like what made me even more mad was other people probably wouldn't they would be like okay I guess that's what I have to do oh it made me so mad I'm getting fired up already right now thinking about it and so yeah I basically had reached out for like I knew I'd be able to um acquire funds to pay it out but for the interim just to get the ball rolling i needed

money right away and so i went to um some family members and was like this is what's happening and they were equally upset so they were like yep here here and again totally like fortunate and privilege that was even an option but we basically were able to write a check and bought and acquire the tanks for the intern before i can finance it and tell us got a job it basically yeah so for my family that was more like that was the incentive was to tell us guy to go yeah so yeah that is a lot to go through I can't imagine how does starting Luna float compare to like because it sounds like it's kind of in the service industry was that like a preference from the beginning or was it just coincidence that you weren't selling products that people would take home and do you have any thoughts on the differences between starting a business when you're dealing with products versus services yeah So when we first started, we knew, had heard that, like, having some retail is good. It's a good idea to have. But that wasn't something I was totally looking at doing now, especially after COVID and we were shut down.

We weren't able to provide services. Our retail came in huge. And it's funny because on the previous podcast, we had talked about how when I was younger, I sold freezes on the corner and like I liked like back then I calculated, okay, I have to pay this much for the box of freezes, but then I'm able to sell the freezes for a little bit more. And that's how you get profit. And then as I got older, I was like, okay, like I just, it felt weird to me to like retail wasn't my thing. That wasn't what I was passionate about. But how it became more of my passion and how I'm actually, it's something that I still want to work and grow on. Like we have lots of plans and ideas for Luna float in terms of. retail that still haven't come to fruition. But it's the collaboration piece. It's not, it's like, um, not just, oh, I'm buying this for X amount and selling it for a markup. It's the fact that we collaborate with other local makers. And so one of, um, shout out to a six cent candle. One of our employees recommended them. She had met her at a market. Really

liked her product. Really liked her. And my candles, does that have anything to do with floating. That makes her space smell nice. It's part about relaxation. treating yourself, um, that sort of thing, that ambiance piece. So, um, one of our bigger sellers. And it's like, yes. So for taking up, like we put a lot of her stuff out on our shelves and we promote her on social media as well and vice versa. Um, and we get a piece of that when it sells. Um, but she also gets a piece of that. So every month, you know, I pay out our retailers, who we carry. And it's just, it's fun because it's like, I don't know, You've probably seen on social media.

It's like, when you buy from a small local business, like, you know that your sale, like makes the owner do like a little happy dance. It's pretty much true. But so when you buy something like that, not only do I do a happy dance, but then I send the money to them and they do a happy dance. So it just kind of felt like, okay, this is cool because you get to spread it, like spread the wealth, share the wealth. And, yeah, it's a love kind of thing.

And then also it's like a fun thing where it's like, I enjoy these things. So I'm going to promote them and like other people can. benefit from them as well. So I guess that would be a tip would be to not be scared to diversify if you're in the service industry. Bringing in an element of retail is good because again when we were closed, all we were doing was like the curbside pickup retail definitely helped us out in a time that was a little unprecedented, a little scary. Yeah.

What are your thoughts on collaboration? Is it easy to partner with other individuals who have their own thing or other businesses? that simple or is it actually a lot of work to make sure that you're both on the same page and that you're both putting out the same information, getting the word out, how does that all work? Because it seems like there could be pitfalls and frustrations of you're willing to market it and maybe somebody else isn't or they said they were going to and they didn't. How does that all come about and what has your experience been? I feel like it's in the same vein as our employees like I feel one hand maybe I just lucked out but I think it's also just connecting

us the right people and making sure you're on the same page and sometimes things didn't feel right and those things didn't pan out so like they didn't even get to the point where it was an issue just because it's like oh it fell to the wayside our communication wasn't you know on the same page kind of thing um there has to be this yeah mutually beneficial expectation I suppose but um Yeah, I don't know. Again, I only carry things that I really believe in and like, and so far that's worked out for me. Again, I think if it's, if you're just doing it like, oh, this is a good markup, I'm going to sell it. Just for that, well, do your employees believe in it? Like, does it resonate with your brand? I think those things make sense as well. Know who your demographic is. Like, it's great that you like the product, but also know who's coming into your store.

I don't know. I mean, I think I've been fortunate with the collaboration piece. I think it's also, like, I don't know. Maybe this sounds too wishy-washy for business, but, like, it's the reciprocity. Like, you're not necessarily expecting something like, this is exactly what I need to get back out of it, and they're not marketing me properly. Like, you can't micromanage that sort of stuff. You have to align yourself with people who you feel match your brand or,

match your passion, whatever that connection is to them, and then just let it go. Like, you can't micromanage that and be like, oh, I wouldn't have done it that way. Like, just if you connect, like, it'll be what it'll be kind of thing. And if it still makes sense, like, and you can change it. It doesn't have to be forever, right? So try it, if it didn't work out, like, that's okay. And you can just move on and try something different. I really appreciate that because consistently throughout this, you've kind of shown that you have a trust

and a confidence in a relationship built with everybody that you work with so that you don't have to stress as much about the details because you've created a positive relationship where there is reciprocity. You do trust your staff. You do trust the people you partner with and the team that you build. And I think that that's important for business owners and entrepreneurs to consider because I think we get very eager and then we want to connect with everybody and we think that connecting is easy.

So I'm interested to know a little bit about how you view networking because it's something that we push a lot of. And I'm just interested to hear your thoughts because it sounds like you have a different approach. You have more of a... I want to make sure that there's a true connection there. It's not just about we met for coffee once and that's enough for us to be connected.

It seems like it's something deeper for you. Yeah, well, I think the connecting piece is, like, meeting for coffee and stuff, is good. Yeah, I mean, networking is... funny word, I think, because when people think of it, they think of, yeah, that, like, you're at some sort of mixer and you're swapping business cards with people. I mean, at least I think that's what people still picture. And that's part of it.

But, yeah, not really my thing. Like, I want people who are genuinely interested in learning about other people and seeing if there's anything there, right? Like, not some people just, yeah, you can tell when they're, just there for kind of like themselves and they just want to, yeah, spread their business card and what's in it for them. Whereas when you connect with someone, just to connect and share and learn from other people, I think you can learn so much from other people. And I'll always go in there with a, um, hoping to learn something new or making a new connection or hearing a new

story. Um, yeah. And I think just like getting out there is getting your name out there inadvertently, like, so that's kind of like, I don't know if that's a bad thing, but you just, that's the whole kind of point, but you don't have to, like, shove it down the road. Like, just be there and be yourself, and you might get different things out of it. It might not be sales. It might be you find someone that you're going to collaborate with in different aspects, whether it's you found someone who could help you with your marketing. You found someone who, yeah, wants your product or service.

Or you find someone who all, you might find an amount. employee there. You might find a mentor. There's so many different reasons. Like, you go there, I think, to learn, to grow, and yes, to talk about your business for sure. But I think you'd be open to, like, receiving, not just putting your stuff out there, if that makes sense. That does make sense. Do you have any recommendations for podcasts, books, TV shows that you enjoy that have that business lens or that have that entrepreneurial lens that can help people get started? Yeah, I recommend bigger than me. To be honest, yeah, I mean, I don't have anything off the top of my head. I, yeah, I'm a one-year-old and I really just wish I had more time to

read. That's the biggest thing I miss. I liked anything that inspires you is going to be good for your business. So things that aren't necessarily directly business-related. One of my favorite authors is Brenny Brown, found her in a very pivotal time in my life. Gifts of Imperfection was like a really short, easy-to-read book. I recommend it to everyone for agreements. I can't remember who the author is of that. I think Miguel Regis, I'm not sure. So nothing to do with business at all.

But it actually, again, it's kind of like how your financial house being in order personally can help. you get your financial house in order for your business. I think personally if you are open to learning and if there's anything you feel like you need to work on on a personal level, then that's going to help you be a stronger, better entrepreneur as well, right? That makes sense. Can you give any words of wisdom to somebody who's considering starting a business or who's started a business and feeling a bit discouraged? Words of wisdom. um come for a float and and decompress and just recharge because um sometimes you need to yeah let's say practice the pause like sometimes you just feel like you're a hamster in the cage

and you're going and you're not getting anywhere and it can be super discouraging um i would say look at who you're surrounding yourself with if you're with other people who are kind of just being discouraging being negative maybe pause those relationships or connections and and try to be with people who um inspire you and are a little bit more positive um yeah if there's pain points if there's things that are you're struggling with ask for help find the people you can't be good at everything um so if that's what you're trying to do is do it all then you're going to burn out that's not sustainable so while it's good to learn um learn what you don't like doing or what you're just not great at. Someone can maybe do it faster for you. And if you have to pay them,

that's fine. It might be cheaper because it's not always about money. It probably will be cheaper financially if you just pay someone to do something like that. But like even your mental load, right? Like what is it? What is that costing you in that regard? Yeah, I definitely think recommending people to go floating is not a bad suggestion at all. I actually rarely do that. So I was like, hey, actually, I'm kind of being sassy. But it's true because, yeah, You have to, you get so stuck in it and you just need to sometimes pause and recharge the batteries and look at it with fresh eyes. Well, and you see so many entrepreneurs and small business owners giving everything they have, not getting proper sleeps, sacrificing everything for their business, that you do need to recharge so you can do all of that the next week and the next week and continue. And if you burn out, there's no business left for anybody to go visit.

So I think that that is an important piece, is the self-care so that you can do. you can go have that meeting with the employee and hear their concerns and their frustrations and have those proper connections. Can you tell people how to find and connect with LunaFloat on social media? Yeah, for sure. It's funny because I did a short little interview and I totally blanked on what our website was. I'm like, I've only had this website for five years, but it's LunaFloat.ca. So you can check out our website or we're on Facebook, LunaFloat, Chilliwack. So there's another LunaFloat, but it's in Colorado. So we're the Chilliwack one, Chilok, BC. Instagram. I mean, we're on there as well. I'm behind all of the social media, so if you

reach out to us on Facebook or on Instagram, it's me. You can email us as well. We have two email addresses. Our kind of general one is info at lunafloat.ca. It's normally, that's the one of our employees have access to. So if you had more of a personal or specialized question that you wanted to ask me directly, you can reach me at Luna float at gmail.com. That is awesome. I really appreciate you being willing to take the time and share your knowledge of Van City, Luna Float, your education, because I think that this is hopefully going to be accessible to people who have entrepreneurial ideas or are entrepreneurial who don't have those peers. So I really appreciate you being willing to take the time again and share your fantastic story and give such

words of encouragement and put things in a way I hope is accessible to people. Oh, thank you so much, Eric.