Nuanced. - 112. Vin Jay: A Musical Journey Filled With Courage, Growth & Personal Development

Episode Date: June 12, 2023

Join Aaron Pete in an exclusive interview with rapper Vin Jay as they dive into his latest project, the 'Karma' EP, and discuss the meaning behind the songs. They also touch on Vin Jay's collaboration with Enkay 47 on the powerful track 'Coward' while exploring topics of personal development, courage, and artistic growth.Vin Jay is a renowned American independent rapper and songwriter, widely recognized for his viral hit "Mumble Rapper vs. Lyricist" with over 20 million views on YouTube. With over 700K monthly listeners on Spotify and 350K YouTube subscribers, Vin Jay continues to captivate audiences with his music, focused on motivation, family, and living a meaningful life. From his album "Prophecy" addressing mental health and addiction to the collaborative project "High Frequency" with Bingx, and the introspective album "The Human Experience," Vin Jay's artistry never ceases to inspire. Discover his incredible singles on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple Music today.Chapters:0:00 Introduction to Vin Jay1:40 Karma EP3:45 Brain Dead by Vin Jay9:50 Break Down by Vin Jay18:27 Being Vulnerable in Music24:01 These Days by Vin Jay29:31 Killer Vin Jay feat. Krizz Kaliko35:43 Vin Jay Going on Tour??40:51 What's Doubt by Vin Jay46:01 Coward Enkay47 x Vin Jay52:44 Tim's TakeSend us a textThe "What's Going On?" PodcastThink casual, relatable discussions like you'd overhear in a barbershop....Listen on: Apple Podcasts   SpotifySupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

It's the Bigger Than Me podcast with your host, Aaron Pee. I find music impacts me when I'm on a run and I want to go a little bit farther. That song will push me farther than I thought I could go. Other songs will help me during dark times, during heavy times. The mood really impacts us and it pushes us to our brink and helps us perform better. My guest today has done that for me several times. Almost every one of his songs inspires me, makes me think differently, resonates with me in a special way

and I am so pleased to be sitting down with him again today to dive into his latest project Karma EP I find him to be super inspiring I find that his music pushes me and inspired me to do better and motivates me

I'm so pleased to announce my guest today Vin Jay Vin we are back round two I'm so excited to be sitting down with you today would you mind just once again doing a brief introduction for those who might not acquainted. Yep, I am Vin Jay. I am a rapper from Arizona, originally from Long Island, moved out here for opportunity, and I just make the best music I possibly can to help people and express

myself. I love it. Karma is out now, Apple Music, Spotify. How did this project come about for you? Yeah, so I have two albums previously, Prophecy and the Human Experience, and I was dropping singles for a long time after that, which does very well performance-wise, but I come to lack this feeling of a cohesive piece of art that has real thought behind it as a whole. So once that feeling kicks in, I'm like, all right, it's time to make a project again, but didn't want the full commitment of a 12-song album

because I often feel like I put myself in a corner the second I decide that. I'm like, now all of these songs need to sound like this to make it make sense. So EP was a nice way to get into that vibe again, without putting too much pressure on myself. And yeah, the songs just came out super organic because I actually did go about it in a way of like, let's just make great singles and make them an EP and they just so happened to sound cohesive, thankfully.

I guess it was just the wave I was on at the time. But yeah, a less stressful album is what I went into this EP with. Fantastic. I'm curious, where does this name come from? Karma, where did that come from? for you. Yeah, so I'm a pretty spiritual dude underneath it all. And even if you listen to the names of my two albums, Prophecy and the Human Experience, they both got some depth to them. So, it's on brand for that reason. But also, I just think the sound I have now is just a culmination of all my past experiences and what I'm going through in the present, whether internally or

externally. And I think karma is just all-encompassing. You know, the Western definition is always like, you reap what you sow, but that's a really surface-level definition. It's more so, I don't want to butcher it, but it's just your karma, like the life energy you've gathered thus far is the way I grasp it. And I figured what better way to define sound waves that are coming from who I am right now? The first song is Brain Dead, and it reminded me personally of sweet dreams. It had like an underlying idea there, and it touches on this idea of woke culture. Would you mind talking a little bit about where this kind of ties in for you?

You don't do songs all the time about that. That's not your main gig, but you do touch on it every once in a while. How does that tie in? Yeah, so Brain Dead very slightly touches on it. I just think we're in a weird time, man. I think no one knows how to take a joke anymore and nothing could be satire anymore. And I actually wrote an entire song that I'm not sure is going to come out. I wrote it a while ago, but it's really poking fun at woke culture. And it's all satire

clearly when you hear the song. It's like, if you think I'm being serious in a line, listen to the next line, and you'd be like, oh, he's completely joking around and just being an idiot. But I'm like, I don't even think I could release this song because the intention is not going to be received well, even if it's like, oh, wow, he's joking. It's like, no, but he said this. And I just, I think everyone needs to relax. Um, we were such a tightly wound society. right now and what better way to to ease that tension than kind of poke the sleeping bear and make light of a situation that may not be as serious as we're making it so that's that's my stance on the woke culture very briefly so i just i just touched on it because i'm not

trying to stir up any shit storms i can understand that in sweet dreams you specifically talk about the idea of freedom of speech and this idea of that you're not going to be censored And I'm just curious, as an artist, what does freedom of speech mean to you? Yeah, I saw a quote about it the other day, and I don't think I could say better than this did. I'm going to paraphrase, but it said, freedom of speech is your ability to say whatever you want and others to say whatever they want, even if it goes against what you believe and pisses you off, right? So it's like everyone thinks they deserve freedom of speech and then try to censor everybody else, but that's not freedom of speech. So I think it's speaking freely without this intense fear of being harassed online or even your platform stripped away for the sake of even if you made a mistake, right? It's one thing to be intentional about saying the wrong thing depending on who's deciding that.

But people make mistakes nowadays and people are like, nope, they're done. No one can listen to them anymore. Take their livelihood away. And mistakes is what it is to be. human. So I think it's so, such a bizarre space we're maneuvering right now as humans, and it is counterproductive to evolving, because the only way to learn is to fail and make mistakes. I couldn't agree more. Where does the song Brain Dead come from? What inspired it? To be honest, I just found a really hard boom bap instrumental, and it wasn't even that one.

And I just, I was like, let me just wrap my ass off for three minutes and not make a hook. I just want to wrap and um and then i that beat i found later on i was like oh it sounds way crazier on this beat we're doing it on this one um but the words that come out of it are not up to me if i give myself free rein to just wrap for three minutes about whatever comes to mind i kind of step back when it's done i'm like i guess that's what i was thinking about that's fascinating i always enjoy that because we don't know where these ideas come from and that inspiration and where your mind is and what you're going through, it almost sounds like you're just participating in the process. Absolutely.

There is times where I'll sit down and say, you know, I want to make a song about this topic. My song, and we may speak about this later, but I'll touch on it right now. My song, Breakdown, I was like, oh, I need to talk about this specifically. And you could tell as you hear the song, it's very intentional, the topic. But with songs like Brain Dead and any Beast Unleash or things of that nature, I am just testing my pen, showing the intricacies of my writing and how they've evolved. I'm doing it for the audience because I love when I go off. But I also do it for me to see, like, how much have I progressed since the last time I've

rapped just for the sake of rapping? That's so cool. So you're saying that you get to kind of go back in and see how far am I, how fast am I going, where is my head at, what are the lines and how do they connect with each other? you're just doing that and seeing and testing yourself basically yeah i'm like are my rhyme schemes better this time is there more substance in it even though it's just a song about rap is there can i find schemes and and uh voices and tones i haven't done before just naturally like what is going to come out of my skill set as a rapper because if you listen to my album prophecy there's

some great songs on there don't get me wrong but if you fast forward to uh sure let's say karma or some of the stuff I have unreleased right now, it's like the amount of weapons that I have in my writer's arsenal that I allow to go on the track is much more than just, here are some good rhyme schemes on the record. There's new pockets, there's new tonalities, much more substance in the things I'm saying as opposed to surface level stuff about rap.

So just really crafting my own style throughout all of this Because in the beginning, we all start because we got inspired by somebody, so you're bound to sound like a. But over time, you get more influences, including yourself, and the style you've stumbled upon. And you just delve deeper into that. So every time I make a record like that, it's kind of like, who am I now with the pen? Fair to say that through this process of evolution, you learn more about yourself. Oh, my God. Absolutely. The music is my journal.

and it just so happens that I share my journal with the world but it's my method of choice You mentioned Breakdown In the very beginning of the song You talk about being abandoned And being independent And the challenges you were going through Can you elaborate?

Yeah, I don't want to like air anybody out But long story short Without getting too deep When I was young And this is all reflecting, right? I've coped with all this in my adult years but I'd like to tap into younger Vin and like maybe I could go through what he was feeling with a much broader perspective on the topic and speak on it.

So yeah, when I was younger, I went through like a pretty rough breakup at the same time my parents got divorced so my mom was out of the house. So when I said abandoned, it was a really intense word to describe, I guess just what I perceived as lost one after the next at the time. So, yeah, that term abandon is kind of like, I just lost two people that I cared about. And a connection, it sounds like, just seeing two people on the same page about things. And when you see that dissolve, it shapes, I know my partner, Rebecca, she was impacted a lot. She obviously still has connections with both her parents.

But seeing that relationship kind of disintegrate changed her understanding of what a relationship is. Yeah, it shifts the whole dynamic you're operating within, right? you're in the nuclear family unit and then shit changes and it's kind of like we need to maneuver this new space now and um sure and then you know if you're taking it hard you're going to feel abandoned and put it on yourself and and not realize the real reasoning behind adults splitting up and things of that nature and how it could be for the best um but yeah like i said i was writing it from the perspective of me when i was 17 years old as opposed to a 27 year old adult who understands all of it very fully.

Absolutely. Yeah, Rebecca talks about that as well. When we first met, she carried that with her that somehow when her mom asked her, is it okay if I move out of, is it okay if I do these things, that if she had said, no, she would have changed the whole landscape of one, but that's not true. Like, obviously she had already made her decision and was taking steps in that direction, but we can put that weight on ourselves. And in those moments, we don't have the long-term understanding of how complex relationships are and all of that. Yeah, it's tough to see clear when you're going through the storm, right?

It's always hindsight that makes it a lot easier. I always say that's why it's so easy to give other people advice. You could be going through shit yourself and someone has a problem. You're like, oh man, what you need to do, I'll tell you right now. You've got to do this, that, and a third. And it's easy as hell for us because we're not emotionally affected by it. Speaking of that, in the song you talk about refusing help from your peers. In the song Breakdown, you talk about how people wanted the best for you. they wanted to help and you couldn't receive that. And I think that that's so important because in the time where we're seeing increases

and overdoses, in the time where we're saying go get help, go do the things, go do all the things you need to do to go succeed, people aren't able to go do that for themselves. And I'm wondering if you can just talk a bit about that mindset. Yeah, I think whether it's from the perspective of me then or me now attempting to help people I care about, you can't want. help for someone more than they want it for themselves. It just doesn't work like that.

You can't love addiction out of somebody. Otherwise, everyone with a family would be A-OK, right? So, it's kind of like life, life has got to be the teacher for a lot of people. There's not much that you can tell them,

unless you're, like, incredibly impactful with your speech that is, like, renowned and astounding for them to hear and it's like a change of heart immediately, you need a why. If you want a serious change in your life, you need a really strong why. And maybe the best we can do is provide that why for that person, make them recognize that why. But ultimately, it's up to them to have it. That's the story, right? Any why can endure anyhow. Like, once you have your why, you can get through the how to go about doing it, but you need that initial motivation.

Absolutely. And that can go for something as small of a decision as like losing weight. People can comfortably be 15, 20 pounds overweight, and they're not going to attempt to get in better shape unless they have a really good reason. It's like, why should I work really hard and work out just to get a nice body? I don't care that much about a really nice body. So it's like, okay, well, what do you care about? Like, if your doctor said you're going to have heart problems in 10 years, is that a strong enough why?

And now all of a sudden, working out is the easiest thing in the world for them, and they don't even think twice about it. I actually went through that. I was significantly overweight all through middle school and high school and really couldn't look at myself in a mirror. Working in Dairy Queen, they'd call me chubby chicken man. Like, I had all the brutal kind of bullying. And the thing that pushed me was somebody being willing to come forward and say, hey, let me take you to the gym. Let me show you how to work on this. Let me show you a healthy diet.

I was raised by a single mother who didn't know how to kind of give me all of those tools of how to cook a salad and how to have a balanced diet. And the desire was to stop being bullied. And I think sometimes we get so afraid of bullying people. We want anti-bullying and we want everybody to have peace. But at times that can actually be a huge motivator as long as it's done with a bit of jabbing and not just purely out of like an evil, mean-spirited. But if you're kind of like, hey, you could be better than you are and why don't you give that a try, that can be in. and certainly was for me. Oh, yeah.

It really is like the presentation of it. Because you could say to like, if you have a group of friends and four out of five of them are telling you, oh, you're fine the way you are, but let's say you're like massively overweight. And it's damaging your health. And then one person says to you like, yeah, bro, you got to make a change. Like think about your heart. Think about your future.

Do you want kids? Things of that nature. It's so easy to turn around and say, oh, that you're being an asshole, that guy's an asshole. But I argue that the other four people are assholes for completely enabling you and potentially allowing you to make poor decisions for yourself. I couldn't agree more. I actually learned a statistic that when you are overweight and you have a child or when you're trying to conceive, that actually impacts the child and whether or not they start to develop overweight as a baby. and so it can have long-lasting implications and that's certainly not something somebody struggling with their weight wants to hear, but it can be a motivator if you take it as such, if you take it as the information that it is. And then you can also just be proud of yourself. I think with individuals like yourself, you come across with genuine confidence and like other words get used like cocky and stuff, but there's a difference between being comfortable in your own skin and that's something I didn't have for like 10 years of my life of worrying about what shirt I was going to wear, what sweater I was going to wear, how I was going to cover. it up and never feeling at peace. And I think that that can be such a challenge for people. And

on that note, in your song, you also talk about this idea that you never wanted to die. All you wanted was a second of peace. And I think that that's so important. Can you talk a bit about that? Yeah. So I think when any of us are going through turmoil or rough times, we look for an escape and we don't always choose a positive path. That could be that escape like exercise or meditation or therapy, fill in the blank. And we go to things because they're easier. They're instant gratification, like drugs. And, yeah, sure, let's start there, like drugs.

But what happens is when we're taking those drugs to numb the pain, to feel a little less hurt inside. And when we realize after some time that those drugs don't work, what's left? I mean, we're kind of past the point of thinking like, maybe I should meditate. Maybe I should work out. It's kind of where we've went down a different road at that point. So I think that's where the thoughts of like, well, like nothing is helping.

So what's the point of living? Which is a horrible thought process. But you can see how you would land there. It's all for the search of peace within. Or choices to get it, but all for that search. Is it hard to talk about these talks? Was this an easy song that came together naturally? It's very heavy in the information, but I think incredibly important.

So for me personally, it's not hard to talk about my experience with these topics because I've come to terms with it, and it was so long ago when I realized, like, the reasoning, it's not, I won't even, like, bash my reasoning for why I did what I did. I just think, um, I've, I've, I've got. gotten through that time in my life, and more so, it made me who I am today. I see the silver lining in it big time. Yeah, and regarding this song, though, was it hard to write? So I actually sat down, I wrote the hook first, and it's kind of just like that psychotic

feel like battling the demons in my mind all day. So I was like, oh, I could just talk about, oh, I'm so crazy that da, da, da, right? all those rapper bars about being psychotic and whatever. But nothing was coming out. So I said, what if I write about an experience that I had in my life? That was dark. And of course, that's the first one that came to mind. And one of the most pivotal moments of my life was that. And I've never written a song about it. So I was like, let's try it. And I had, I was attempting to write for hours before that. The second I decided to write about that topic, whole shit poured out in like two hours, the whole song. Wow. What does it mean to know that this is going to impact other people?

Yeah, everything. So I showed my mom the song before it was released and you could imagine that that was tough for her to hear. She didn't even know about that, that entire scenario. So I was her first time hearing it. Um, and I don't remember exactly what she said, but she was expressing concern like, do I want to put this out? Like, because it's dark. And I, I, I said, you know, I would be lying if I said I didn't think the same thing or haven't thought the same thing after I made this record. But then I thought, if I heard this song from someone that I looked up to when I was going through this, I would have felt a lot less alone.

And that is reason enough for me to put this out. That's really motivational. The music video is also incredible. And Anakin is in it. And I'm just curious, it's very deep. And I'm just curious as to how that came about. Did you have this in your mind when you were putting the song together? Did that come afterwards?

How did the music video come about? So that's an interesting story. So Canon is insane at what he does. So, and I know he struggled with similar things. So I said, I give you full creative control on this entire video, you know, draft it up, do your fucking thing. I went to the Airbnb and, like, filmed with them. But I was like, everything is you. Have fun.

There was a two-day shoot, rented out to Airbnb for two days. We do like an eight-hour shoot the first day. We had a few more shots to do the next day. We're going to get some like pill-popping in the bathroom that was expressed in the song. The getting sick on the floor that was expressed in the song. We were going to get that in the video. I'm going to bed that night after the first day shooting at my house, not at the Airbnb. They were sleeping at the Airbnb still.

I'm about to fall asleep and I sit up, boom, out of like almost a dead sleep. And I just said the words, it's not going to work. And my girlfriend's like, what? I was like, the video's not going to work. She's like, why? I was like, it's too dark. I was like, this is just, I was like, it's not, it's not visually exactly what happened in my scenario.

So that was stressing me out. And I was like, and I was like, and this is really dark. It was just kind of fear. So I call Canon right then and there. It was like midnight. And I was like, dude, we are going to be able to roll with this video. Just pack it up. Don't do tomorrow shoot.

Don't waste any more time there. So I tell him why. I doubt I die. He's like, all right, I hear you. We end up shooting an entirely new video a few weeks later with me as the main actor at his house. And we kind of just like PG-13 did it a little bit. I got that video back and I was like, this doesn't hit nearly as hard, doesn't pull on the same hard strings that the first video did with Canon. So we went back to the original one that is now the official video. But we're literally missing like a bunch of scenes for the second.

second half. Wow. Because I second thought it. Are you proud of how it turned out the final copy? For sure, I can't have regrets now. I kick myself a little bit. Cannon will tell you, I do this, bro. Like, that is a typical VIN thing to do. He's like, I was like, dude, stop listening to me. He's like, what do you want me to do when you call me? It said, just hang up. I appreciate it, though, because you're putting that thought and energy into every piece to make sure that it turns out and make sure that it hits and that it resonates and that it's going to connect with people. Absolutely.

What's a little unfortunate about that video is because it's so dark and the acts that take place in the video, YouTube squashed it, the algorithm. There's two warnings on it. You have to click through two things to get to it. You have to be signed into YouTube to watch it. You have to be 18 and older with a profile that signed into watches. So I think the video I dropped two days ago already surpassed it because there's no, you know, precautions on it. But luckily Spotify doesn't do anything like that. So the song was able to get

to as many people as I wanted it to for the sake of benefiting people in that place. Fantastic. These Days is the next song on the album. And again, it ties into this idea that we're living in a weird time and you actually comment on it, calling it like a Twilight Zone. We're in the Twilight Zone right now. And I'm just wondering how this song came about. Yeah. I think we spoke a little bit. about social media on the last podcast we did together and it's just like I open my phone and marketing is in my face 24-7 and it's so annoying it like it drains my brain like that that screenshot you sent me earlier it's like it's I feel like it is all so fake no one can just and don't get me wrong I have to play the game as well I just wish I didn't have to um

but no one could just say like hey here's my new music and here's the video we worked really hard on or the audio we worked really hard on. It's like to get these social media platforms to even push it to all of your followers or 50% of your followers, it needs to be this immediately engaging skit where now you have to play the role of an actor and a funny guy to get them to even rock with your art. So you're becoming somewhat of a gimmick and going somewhat off character from who you are just so your music can get heard, which is the most genuine form of yourself. it's just it's it's an unfortunate truth but that's like some trouble in paradise shit right i i almost hesitate to complain about that shit because it's like oh boo-hoo the rapper has to make some

some content to make sure his song gets out so i see both sides of it i think it's a challenge though because you're kind of morphing yourself into something else in order to deliver the thing that you love and i do i do sympathize with that challenge because people are always seeming to be looking for the next thing that's going to take off, the next weird thing you can do, the way you can stand out differently than that other person, rather than just kind of embracing that. And I actually interviewed a Canadian rapper, Quake Matthews, and he does food reviews. And he's like, I like food.

I go out to eat, and I just get the opportunity to talk about something else that I enjoy. But I'm not putting on any act. I'm not being anything else. I'm just showing a different side of the person I already am. And I think that that's the landscape. you have to kind of navigate. Yeah, it's a completely different job. It's, uh, I signed up to be an art.

I didn't sign up. I am an artist. I'm not an influencer. But now all artists have to be influencers as well. And I'll be honest, I think the majority of artists are introverts. So then we have to get in front of a camera, put on this big, whatever act for the sake of getting our art out. And it's just weird. It's a new space to maneuver.

One of the lines is, instead of watching, try chasing your dream, you're a person who's done that against all odds we know how challenging the rap industry is we know that it's one of the most competitive industries you've chosen to chase your dream despite tons of barriers despite tons of challenges and i'm just curious what do you have to say to people who are just sitting by watching their life go by and not kind of grabbing that thing they've always wanted to do and chasing it uh that's a tough one is I know not everyone wants to do what I do or what you do, right? Chase something big.

Some people are content having a family, working a decent job, and doing their thing. So I hesitate to tell people what they should be doing, but I think you should be taking steps towards doing whatever it is that makes you happy, and it sure scrolling on your phone is not that regardless of what you want, and dropping negative comments and just losing yourself in this, this alternate realm that is cyberspace and not the physical plane. These days is a really good articulation of kind of where we're at in this weird time. Do you have hope that we're coming out of this?

That's all I can have, man. It would be a miserable existence if I didn't have it, you know? The song it actually reminded me of, which is it's like almost juxtaposition, is just going back to the song Paradise. Because as much as these things are kind of wrecking our views and making us think differently, Paradise is kind of not perfect. You put down the phone, you go back outside, you remember that this is Paradise. Yeah, yeah, Paradise was written in a very unique time in my life.

And, yeah, I think going to speak on the, you know, juxtaposition of those two songs, I think that's one of the biggest challenges that I face, and probably a lot of, artists or anyone trying to be an entrepreneur is balancing gratitude and ambition. Because it's like, I want more, I want more, I want more. It's like, well, how about you be grateful? But it's like, oh, you're too grateful for too long. Now you're complacent. It's a balancing act.

Yeah. And you're almost always thinking of five steps ahead and not soaking in. So when people are like, oh, that was a great episode. Or for me, it's like, I'm already thinking about like the next one where I'm like, I've got to get this person on or I want to talk about this. I want to talk about that topic. And it's a challenge to kind of stay in that moment and enjoy that experience at that time and not get kind of too ahead of yourself. Yeah, I think we need a perspective shift that rest is beneficial and not a hindrance on our goals and that it could potentially even make that path easier and yield the greater results if we take that rest.

Couldn't agree more. The song Killer is also a deeper song. The music video is also probably got some rules around it. I wouldn't be surprised. It actually doesn't, shockingly. Really? Yeah, I think we avoided the detail of the shots very well. How did that song come about for you and the music video?

Yeah, so once again, that's another song where the verse, my verse, was written to a completely different beat. And it just worked better on that one. So I think on that one, I got the hook. first because it just felt so dark and and uh the hook it's a it's a weird song uh because the hook is about that other side of you the negative voice in you that we always have the urge to feed into um whether it's like oh don't don't do the right thing or don't do what's best for you in this moment oh you could just do this or that dark voice as opposed to the other one that we always try to feed. So as you know, I got this killer inside my soul. And lately I've been feeling

like the killer inside my soul. I've been feeling more like the dark voice than the one that guides me in the right direction. And the reason I say this song is weird. I think the video is very on par with the hook. But I think the song is weird because me and Chris kind of just were such lyricists that I just like barred out on my verse. And when he heard my verse, he's like, oh, this is a competition now. So he bars out on his verse. So we have this whole hook about that, the killer in your soul thing, and then us just both barring out on the verses. One of the things that made me think of philosophically was, I don't know if you know who Jordan Peterson is, but there's this idea. There's this idea that he has that you need to make yourself a monster

and you need to have the ability to be strong and powerful and sheath it in, like if you or a knight you'd have your sword on you and you wouldn't pull it out all the time but you need to be capable of being that person and i think right now we struggle with this idea that to be a man or to be strong means that you're timid and that you're not going to come after people and that makes you a good person but being a good person is i could be this other person and i choose not to be and that's sort of what i was thinking of when you made this song amen bro i think um the other side of that coin because i've been in that headspace as well after that mushroom trip I was telling you about it. It's just like, man, just like everyone needs to love everybody, right? But, and it's like, yeah, you don't need

to exert this masculine energy to be a man. You could just be loving and still be a man. I agree to an extent, but that strength, that ability to be a monster is necessary because if you don't have that, it's very likely, hopefully not, but it's likely that sometime in your life you're going to become a victim of something, of someone who is capable of that and using it for evil, for lack of a better term. And especially if you have people in your life that you care about that depend on you to protect them and you don't have that capability, good luck. Like that's reason enough for me to want to be capable of monstrous things is because if I need them to protect the people I care about, cool. Okay, I'll save all the loving stuff for them and even

strangers until it's time to get real and then I'm going to make sure I can protect the people I care about. This actually happened to me not that long ago. I was at the gym with Rebecca and we were working out and there was one individual there who seemed a little bit off from the get-go and he started following around the girls in the gym and getting very close to them and started trying to have conversations with him and we got very uncomfortable and I was getting, there was a part of me that wanted to go approach him aggressively. But this person had, I would say, an underlying almost Joker kind of mentality that he's been through this before. You can't be a person like that and not have people come at you with negative energy and start

having a negative conversation and then it escalates from there. And so we ended up going, okay, this isn't the place. So we went downstairs and we just told the staff, hey, just so you're aware, this person's up there and they're like, he actually has a brain injury and this is a problem that we've been dealing with for a period of time now. And there is that, like, what do you do when the rubber hits the road? Who are you? Are you going to be the person who stands up? Or are you going to be the person who flees? And how do you make the best decision? And you want to be the person who doesn't cower away and go, I'm not going to pay attention to it. I'm going to ignore it. You want to be the person who stands up when it comes down to it. Absolutely. It's a balancing act, bro. This whole life is a balancing act. The more like realms you get into, like, oh, wow, it's this. But I also got to make sure about this, too. And I think that's a yin-yang of life, right? So, yeah, we got to train to be animals in our spare time. It'd be nice one. we're not training to be animals.

There you go. The Paul Wall reference. So I had to do some digging. He was originally close with Chimillionaire. I might have gotten the name wrong, but Chimillionaire. And in 2004, he goes in and kind of gets into a fight with Chimillionaire's younger brother. And they get on different pages. And then 2010, they kind of reconnect and do music together.

How did this reference come about in your song? Yeah. So to be honest, it is going to be a very. anti-climactic answer. So, full disclosure. Um, so in the beginning of the song, it's, they're the boy still proving them all wrong. So in hip hop, right, you can rhyme with anything from one syllable words to eight syllable words, right? So if you rhyme in like hop, the next line will be pop, drop, stop. Um, you're going two syllables like speaker, then it's like sneaker, t-shirt, research. But eventually you get into like five syllable words. And there's only so many, so many, so many

rhymes that you can do for five-syllable words. So I said, God damn, the boy didn't proving them all wrong. That's the whole life's proven them all wrong. And then fans are still tipping like the music of Paul Wall. Fucking the whole game and I'm doing it, raw dog. Enemy's jump out like they're shooting and saw it off. So why did I use it?

It's because it rhymed flawlessly. It didn't seem like the story behind it actually did link up even if it was unintentional, no? Because Paul Wall went out on his own and did his own thing. and that very much kind of like aligns with my understanding of you because you're not jumping on every tour now that the world's back open you are very much like you're willing to work with others but you've got your own vision and you're willing to stick to that.

Absolutely. I try to take it day by day and as corny as it sounds let my soul guide me as to what I want to do right now. Excuse me. I'm drinking these shelters killing me. And for the longest time I didn't want to tour. I just didn't see the need. I was like, I was like, I could just make music from my studio at my house and live a super laid-back life with my lady and fucking do whatever I want every day, make a song when I want to make a song, and like, can't tell me shit. It's like, it's like summer vacation every day. So it's like, oh, no, let's go on the road for 30 days and live in a van.

It's like, how about no? And, but as of recently, I went to a red hot chili peppers concert last night, actually. And just to see like these sold-out stadiums, man, and these dudes just lost in the moment and the vibrations on stage is like, at this stage of my life, that looks kind of fun and not to be on some rock star shit, just like the physical connection with the people who have heard my music and that it resonates with. I couldn't imagine what that would be like because I've spoken to a lady who's kind of an expert on music, and one of the things we talked about is the idea that it's a religious experience to go to a concert, that you'll see people. people there, sometimes they're on drugs, but you'll see them almost like when you see photos of them, they're like eyes are closed and they've got their hand up and they're kind of entranced. I can't imagine being the person putting people into a trance. That would be a surreal experience. Yeah, I haven't done many live performances in terms of hip hop. I think I've done four shows total in my entire life, but I did one. The biggest one I've done was Me, Futuristic, Who the hell else was there? Osmond Benjamin, Manelli. I think it was those four. Those were the four people on the show. And so we did a little local Arizona show, but sold out the venue. And it wasn't a huge venue. Maybe it was like one, 200 people. But it was a small venue. So it felt like a packed basement party on a fucking MTV music video. And so they were lit. And like you said, to get that energy from them and like the call and response and you jump in the crowd make everybody. get low and on three everyone's jumping up and down there's something to it like i went on stage nervous and hopped off stage with a fucking adrenaline rush yeah i can't imagine because you also get

to see people know your lyrics as well as you know your lyrics and seeing them connect with certain parts like that just seems like uh an incomprehensible experience yeah that that was the first show that happened to me and i was thrown off i was just like i'm gonna go on stage i'm perform my songs we're going to have a good time and then I'm rapping when I look up at the crowd and there's this kid mouthing the words of me I was like what the fuck so you've got a feature on this song and I'm just curious as to how that came about because you don't always do feature so I'm

curious was there any logic behind this one did you guys connect somehow yeah so uh me and chris connected before this song came out or even you know came to fruition it's uh he's friends with futuristic and that's how a lot of artists link up because futuristic is like the hub for independent artists i don't know what it is the dude just he's got it on lock um so we met at his house and uh that's how we got connected like contact exchanges and all that and when i got this record i was like oh i am hitting up chris because this this has strange music sound all over it that chopper style with the gritty vocals and i also know

that he struggles with mental health and at least the hook is about that so to speak so he'll kill it but like I said we just went crazy okay this might be an Easter egg that I'm diving too much into but in the beginning of the music video the album shock treatment is held up is there any logic behind that yeah so that was more so

video treatment like idea so we were doing clearly the entire American psycho reenactment in the the video. So we're like, how do we tie in Chris to this scene? Because the scene is the scene. It doesn't make sense to have Chris in it, especially from another location because he's in a different state. So the concept we came up with, because in American Psycho, he's nerding out on music. And he's like, oh, do you like these guys? And he always nerds out on music

before he kills people. So I was like, or I think it kind of brought it up, actually. He's like, what if you introduce like Chris's CD? So now he's like your inspiration. You listen to him, and he's your inspiration to be a psychopath and go murder these people. And I was like, I like it. Perfect. The song, What's Doubt, is next. And you talk about this idea not to tour. Are we going to see a tour?

Is this something that's off the table? I'm just curious as to whether or not we're going to see something coming soon. If you asked me six months ago, if I was going to tour, it probably wouldn't have been a no because of the answer I gave you before. I'm like, why should I? but I've been in talks literally today and let's say this past week of setting that up whether it be with other artists or what have you yeah tour is definitely in the future

and not in the distant distant future either is there something you're a very thoughtful person is there something you'd want to do differently you kind of talked about just kind of sitting in a van and doing that for a month straight doesn't excite you is there something you would want to do differently than perhaps the traditional approach Yeah. So I've actually spoken about this. Zach, futuristic, asks me why I don't tour. And I always said, like, when I do tour, I am not getting on a stage holding a microphone and just rapping at people. The way I see it is it's a show. It's you are the entertainment. If you think about, like, the example I always use is like Blue Man Group, right? It is a show. You go there and you're enthrall that it's captivating and they've been touring for decades. And it's like, why do you think? Because

they've turned the show into an experience. So that is something I want to make sure I curate before I even step on the road is things and moments that go along with the performance of each song, whether it be choreographed dancers with me or a light show or or fans come up on stage, just really creative shit that even if you weren't a, this is the kicker, even if you weren't a fan of my music, you came to the show and didn't know me, you see the show and it's just undeniable and you're like, that was fucking sick. I love that. The other fear I have among people who have to tour is it seems like it sucks the life out of you. When you think about having to be on the road, go to the next place, do the

same thing, get everybody excited, go to bed at unreasonable hours, wake up at unreasonable hours and go do it all again. Echo talked about eating too much pizza. And at the beginning, it's like, oh, yay, pizza every day. And then a weekend, you're like, if I have to eat another, piece of pizza, I am going to attack somewhat. And so do you have any thoughts on how you would approach that in a healthier way? Yeah, I think, I mean, if we're talking diet specifically, meal prep would probably be smart and cheaper at that. But I think curating, I think tours can pay a lot of money, so it's easy to get lost in the fact of the more I do, the more I get paid. but if you can maybe dial back a little bit

and curate your tour schedule to something that's more manageable for you and your body and you just give yourself proper rest, you might take a hit on the money but it might be an overall more enjoyable experience. Well, I'm just going to quietly pray that you come to British Columbia.

Your next song is What's Doubt? And like I just want to talk about this song a little bit more because you have the song doubt in the human experience and then you have the song, What to Doubt? Was there any logic in how they kind of connect? So I typically get the names of my songs for what's repeated in the hook, right? So I was hesitant to make it What's Doubt because I have the song Doubt.

But it's kind of just like, it was a braggadocious record of like, like, look at what I'm doing, like, what's doubt? Like, look what I did, look what I did, look what I did, what's doubt? like why should I doubt when I reflect on everything that I've achieved when all these people told me I couldn't do this shit and continue to so it's just uh these braggadocious records are so funny because I go in these peaks of valleys in my regular life of self-crippling doubt to to like then I rise out of the ashes and make king of the jungle but it's only because I was feeling that crippling doubt for so long that it's like no fuck you and it's like a fuck you to to myself of the half of me that is so doubting. So it's battle. I loved the design of it because it may have not been intentional, but this feeling in the beginning of doubt talking about how other people are going to make comments,

they're going to question you, they're going to say, are you on the wrong path? Should you be doing this? Does this make sense? Maybe keep your day job. Don't go too quickly. And then hitting this point where it's like, no, that's just crazy talk. Like there's a point in your life where you're going to hear it and you're going to be like, oh, like I'm a little nervous, hands are sweaty, but at a certain point, once you make it, once you start to see the yields of your efforts, then you start to go, no, no, no, no, this was crazy the whole time. And to even consider listening to these people is just silliness. Yeah, that's a good point because in doubt, the song doubt, I touch on all those people who do act like that. And what's doubt is kind of more like the fruits of my labor from not listening to that. So I could see how there is some sort of connection between those two.

That's certainly what I got out of it I'm going to take credit for it I also have to ask I sat down with NK47 not too long ago and we talked about coward and I'm just curious as to how that song impacted you what it was like to collab Yeah that was a cool one

Me and NK been trying to get a record in for He got on a record for me in 2020 And I was like cool I owe you one right And I just cast it in for him He sent that to me. He sent me a few, but none of them were, um, we just didn't vibe collectively with them. So this one, uh,

I got on, I think I wrote the whole shit. Uh, once I actually sat down with the beat, I wrote it in like a day recorded. I was like, boom. And he was stoked about it. But it was really nice because,

uh, the topic of the song is something I resonate with. And it goes to what we were speaking about earlier, the being animal shit, right? I think we all, uh, whether younger now have dealt with that timid, side of us and I think I'm in a place now that it's kind of like I've dealt with that part of me

and I have worked on crafting a more intense side of me as well so I wanted to structure my verse like that where it starts in the timid aspect and ends on the other end of it because it starts like he says I'm not afraid anymore the hook and I said I used to be afraid now I'm terrified and then it's like, oh, so I'm in this dark place, but then you hear me climb out of the darkness throughout the entire verse. And then at the end, I kind of say, I don't remember what I say, but I know it ends with bitch, so I probably said something awesome. You have this line in there, until I pass away, I plan to master pain. And I think that that just goes to that point of we spend so much trying to avoid bad things happening to us. But what you

realize over time is all of the strongest, most resilient people, some of the people you probably admire the most have overcome such challenge, such adversity that that's what makes them admirable. It's not the fact that they didn't go through anything. All the people that we think of as big deals often went through the worst things in order to come out the other side. And that's what's admirable. Yeah. And I think like I said earlier, that's tough to see when you're going through it. But I think that's why like implementing, um, uh, suffering, like intentional suffering into your day to day like rigorous exercise or or let's say uh uh hold plunges right things that are intentional suffering that you know have positive benefits are a really good

method to help you maneuver those times that may be hard and and cause actual suffering in you because it's not like every other day before that suffering hey you're living some cushy comfortable life you kind of have put yourself in the fire several times your brain is cut out for it and it helps you maneuver those times a little better when they do hit. Absolutely. Showing everybody who's ridiculed what a kid will do when he's got a mic and he's been abused is probably one of my favorite lines because I was doubted as a kid growing up and to be

able to see the journey that I've been on, but it kind of goes to that same point of being willing to see what you're capable of. Like beyond anybody else's recognition or comments, it's worthwhile to see what you're capable of and I loved how you started this kind of conversation with you go into the studio and you start to make a song and start to see where you're at what your capabilities are and I just think that that's so motivational yeah absolutely man I think I think the pain and the rough things we go through can be some of the best shit that ever happens to us if we have the ability to transmute it but you got a you got to really look at it

from a third-person perspective and say, how can I transmute this pain into something that can benefit me? I have to ask, what's coming next? I know you just dropped this project. Probably a lot of work went into it, but I wouldn't be a good interviewer if I didn't ask, what's coming soon? You sound like my comment section.

I dropped a EP, and they're like, what's the next song? I'm like, fan. Yeah, what is next? So I will say this. I have a lot of music, even though I just dropped what I was doing while it was

dropping these all these songs was just in here making more music so I think I have like 8 to 10 unreleased songs right now I'm not dropping another album right now I'll probably drop singles every two weeks or so but I got to let the EP breathe for like a month and a half, two months maybe

and then I'm going to start unleashing these singles and potentially touring and what the hell else was I going to say yeah we'll leave it at that because I'll remember what I was going to say well I'm super excited I really appreciate this album I appreciate the thought that you put into each song

can you tell people how they can connect with you your website Spotify Apple Music yep so you can find me on Spotify and Apple Music just type in Vin J V-I-N-Space J-A-Y Instagram and Twitter are at RealVinJ Same with Facebook TikTok is the only one that's different

It's RealVinjay music And my website is Youngestprofit.com That's where you can get all my merch Albums, the EP You can get autographs on everything for free If you like And yeah, man

I think that's it I have one more important question It's the most important question I'm going to ask today Where do rap handles come from because my producer Tim has been asking me. He wants to know. I don't have the answer.

Do you know where rap handles come from? Why people don't just go by their name as a standard? Oh, got you. That's a good question. Maybe because rap, right, hip-hop. It's about being like, it's about being, like, hip to what's going on and cool. And just like, I think it's just to, it's for a certain, it's for a certain vibe about you. You create this, I don't want to say alias, but this energy around the name and what it brings.

It's kind of like, what energy do I bring to the music? And maybe that energy doesn't sound like your government name. Maybe it sounds like something a little cooler that you can curate. There you go. That makes sense. Vindjé, I appreciate you so much for being willing to do this again. It's such an honor. I admire you greatly.

So the ability to ask you questions about your latest project, your last project, it's just such an honor for me. Hey, it's an honor to be here, bro, every time. So did we get an answer to the question? Yeah, pretty much what I thought. Are you satisfied? Well, what I was curious is at what point does that rap handle name show up on your driver's license? No. Something like Jay-Z, for example, I'm thinking it's his legal name now, but I don't know that.

That's a good question. Like M&M, you think maybe he gave up the Marshall Mathers? I think he probably still Marshall Mathered because it is. But I don't know Jay Z's real name. I'd have to go to Wikipedia to find that out, I imagine. Right. Beyonce. Yeah.

But Vin Jay, for example, his real name came up on the Zoom window in our podcast here. Yeah. So I thought that was interesting. And so you see that there's like more of a connection where maybe some names, It's just kind of super far from... I don't know, I'm just speculating. I could use one. I could use one that kind of, you know, like my alter ego.

Let's name you right now. I had a math teacher in high school and super inspirational guy, but he switched my name to Sweet Pete McTreat. What do you think? Done. Yeah. Sweet Pete McPete. Sweet Pete McTreat yet.

Sweet Pete McTreat. Yeah, I like it. It seems humble, thoughtful. Yeah, and I didn't know if you worked a dairy clean. It goes with the dairy clean job. Wow, there you go. I didn't think of that either. Yep.

I mean, it's a McDonald's the Mick treat. Right. Kind of on competition. So I did see a blank look on your face when Vinjay mentioned blue men group. Okay, so I understand that they're blue men. What is? Was that the first time you've heard of Blue Man Group? No, I've heard them on the news and they're like,

the Blue Man Group is presenting, but I've never watched them. And I have seen that they are, in fact, blue people. And I'm not 100% sure if they're all men. They are, and they do not speak. It started in Chicago. And then they do have... These are lines. Residency around different, like, in Vegas.

They've been there for years. They're now in the pyramid one, whatever that's called Luxor. They have a permanent theater in the Luxor Casino, and it's an amazing show. And there's no vocals whatsoever. It's all musical. They play mainly PVC pipes. They are Blue Man, and it's all wet paint on them. It's quite amazing.

You need to YouTube that. you're making it less appealing though like I went from like I don't know anything now it just feels like there's these guys who stand on stage that are blue yep for two hours plus wow

I think I'm busy that night you've got some homework to do before the next recording to come back and tell me what you think of Blue Land Group can we make a new rule though when you are off camera Like, other people can't see you, but I can still see you out of it. And you're going like this?

I'm very concerned that something has gone horribly wrong. And then I started getting a little bit distracted because you were like, and I just got more and more nervous about something going horribly wrong. Okay, so you actually see me in camera 13 there. Interesting. Correct. Yeah. So when you're like, you look like you want to say something,

and you look a little like you're holding. back, but I'm in the middle of an interview, and I'm just wondering. No, so what I'm going to do is I'm going to remove that little video. No, no, no, no, no, no. It actually helps to have, like, an audience and to know what your reaction is. But when your reaction is, like, it just seems like you're a little bit, like a little bit frustrated or something. Well, there was one.

Did you get my message just below the timer? I didn't. I was actually reading the other, like, I was planning. So what was your message? And then I think that I moved it. Here, I'll put it on screen so you can read it. Well, we're not going to tell the audience at home. Well, you can read what it says.

Okay. Your knee bounce is strong today. See if you can slow it down. It was going psycho. Where your mic is starting to bop up a bit, and I think it was you talking to a hero mode. Yes, that is how I get when I'm talking to VINJ. I get nervous.

I was worried that it was my stomach growling that was showing up. No. And that's why you were sitting like this. because you were like, did he not eat today? I don't like to eat prior to an review because I feel like it slows me down a little bit. And I get a little, like, not like sleepy, but I just get a little bit less sharp.

And so I don't eat. And then we were all the way good. And then we started recording. And then I started to Hugh Rumble. I know this is a little long for the, for the postgame show here. But can we talk about you rolling in here with eight minutes to go? I mean, you know why It's fair

Fair enough, I won't I felt like it was bold Because this problem happened the last time And I felt fresh, I felt ready to go But I could hear it on my drive over I was like, I'm gonna get it a second time When in told Rebecca, I was like This just seems to be like a theme

And it seems like a risk taker I think it was like 10 minutes But you know, whatever Yeah, yeah, that's a I mean eight minutes A little kind of trying to call me a little slim for my liking, but... You don't think we've built up, like, enough trust? I feel like in those early days, there was, like, a little bit of, like, who is this guy?

What's doing here? No, it's not that I don't trust you. It's that I need to check that your audio at the right level, that you're in focus, and just the general thing. Plus, the setup of the studio was a completely different setup all weekend, and it just means that I want to make sure everything is working. everything's working great we got through it I promised to be here

earlier next time gotta goad coax your woes perfect till next time make sure that you go subscribe on substack check out our website we got a sponsorship section we got an about section

we got some photos of Tim they all look fantastic make sure that you rate the podcast it always helps and make sure you go check out been Jay's music because I'm a huge fan and you will be too once you listen to some of his music because he's a mench.