Nuanced. - 128. BRENT BUTT: Corner Gas, Comedy & his Novel 'HUGE'

Episode Date: October 16, 2023

Canadian creator Brent Butt shares his transition from rural life to creating the iconic sitcom Corner Gas. Aaron and Brent's conversation navigates through his work on TV, the nuances of his novel 'HUGE', reflections on creativity, and the nature of humour, offering a mix of entertainment and insight for fans and budding creators alike.Brent Butt, originating from Tisdale, Saskatchewan, rapidly rose through the ranks of the comedy world, ultimately creating the internationally recognized and acclaimed sitcom, Corner Gas. His versatility is evident as he successfully branched into various mediums, including films and animation, securing his status as one of Canada's multifaceted talents. With notable projects like Corner Gas: The Movie, Corner Gas: Animated Hiccups and No Clue under his belt, his influence in the entertainment industry continues to grow. His debut novel, HUGE, symbolizes the extension of his creative horizon, which is available now!Grab your copy of HUGE: https://linktr.ee/brentbuttbooksSend us a textThe "What's Going On?" PodcastThink casual, relatable discussions like you'd overhear in a barbershop....Listen on: Apple Podcasts   SpotifySupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

Welcome back to another episode of The Bigger Than Me podcast. Here is your host, Aaron Pete. First, thank you to everyone who's been supporting this podcast over the years. This episode is such a highlight for me. I grew up watching Corner Gas, Hickups, and this is just such a milestone for the podcast. It is my honor and privilege to announce my guest today, the great Brent Butt. So they say that life comes full circle, from growing up as a kid, having corner, corner gas on in the background to help me fall asleep and have something positive to go to bed to,

to being able to interview a legend. A fantastic Canadian creator. It's such a privilege to be sitting down with you today. Could you introduce yourself, Brent Leroy. I mean, sorry, sorry, sorry, Brent, butt. Well, Leroy's my middle name. I'm Brent Leroy, butt. I'm a greasy nightclub comedian and writer. It's such a privilege. I know we have to start with Corner Gas. That's what everybody knows you for, for sure. Would you mind starting out with how that came about for you? My understanding is that this was an idea of you going back to your route and thinking about what your path would have been had you stayed in rural Saskatchewan. Can you tell us about how that started? Yeah, that's sort of the nuts and bolts of it was the idea was what would

my life be like if I hadn't decided to leave and become a comedian, to pursue a life and show business. And I thought, well, you know, I hang out at the gas station with my buddies a lot. That's probably where I'd be. I'd be hanging out at the gas station. And I wrote it up as a treatment for a TV show because I often kind of purge ideas. If I get a good idea and it's sticking around in my head, I ultimately have to purge it. I have to get it down on paper or if it's a, you know, if it's a tune, jingle in my head, I get it down, I record it on the guitar or whatever. I like, if something's scouring around in my head a lot, I got to get it out.

And that's kind of what it was with corner gas. it up as a four-page treatment for a TV show, and then in typical Brent Butt fashion, I did nothing with it. Just because I didn't think anybody was going to be interested, right? And then a director friend of mine, David Story, said to me, let's go for coffee. He said, I was talking to the network. I pitched them some show ideas. They didn't like any of my show ideas, but they're interested in knowing if you have any show ideas. So do you have any show ideas? and I said, well, I wrote one about a gas station in Saskatchewan, but I can't imagine anybody would be interested in that.

He said, well, tell me about it. I told him about it. He said he thought it seemed interesting, funny. He talked to the network about it, and they wanted to have a meeting, and it kind of went from there. So it was kind of like, you know, the notion of being prepared for the opportunity when it comes around. Was there anything therapeutic about going through that different trajectory of your life?

We often kind of in our personal lives go like, ah, had I gone this way? Had I talked to that person? Had I really pushed forward on this? Maybe my life would be different. And it seems like this was really cool because you got to kind of play this out in your head and have some fun with where that trajectory would have taken you.

Yeah, and it really kind of dovetailed in a weird way because growing up in small town Saskatchew and watching TV and, you know, really wanting to make TV, beyond TV, and then to sort of run this parallel life, like you said, of what my life would be like had I not pursued show business, and in that parallel life, I'm making a TV show. So it was kind of strangely meta in a way. But the thing, when you're in the throes of doing a TV show,

there's so many things going on that at the time I was very, I was not very reflective. You just don't have an opportunity to be reflective. Yeah, I get picked up. five in the morning, you know, we would have 11, 12 hours on set, and then I'd be in the editing room until midnight and do it all again the next day. It was like literally, you know, 17, 18-hour days when we were in production. So it's only sort of years afterward that you get to look back and reflect. I really love the fact that so many things came after that in the world of sitcom

and humor, and it feels like you were really at the precipice in regards to that. And we think about how simple the storyline can be and how meaningful it can still be, despite the fact that it's not some dramatic crazy thing happening. The day-to-day life is actually way more beautiful than I think we ever really give this space for. And I feel like you pulled that out really well, reminding us that there's beauty in the small moments. Well, thank you. Yeah, I'm a big believer in a small premise. It's one of the things when I was first talking to the network about this show, I said, if you look historically at all, like what are all the high watermarked TV? shows. If you look at what their premise is, it's very, very basic. Like, what's the premise

of the honeymooners? What's the premise of, I Love Lucy, what's the premise of, you know, Seinfeld? These are all very simple premise shows. So what that affords is sort of an authenticity. People can immediately relate to it. You know, if you're not fighting robots trying to save the world from being swallowed into another dimension, you know, that can be hard for people to relate to. But, you know, if somebody, you know, if you've misplaced your sunglasses, that's something everybody can relate. You could do 22 minutes on that, you know. You also met your partner, Nancy, and connected and found love in this place.

Can you talk about that? Yeah. So corner gas changed my life in a lot of ways. Yeah, Nancy Robertson, who plays Wanda on the show. Wanda was, we were having a difficult time. casting the part. I had initially wrote the part of Wanda to be a little bit older because the idea was she used to work for my father. Now she works for me after I've taken over the gas station. So I just naturally, I wrote her to be about 10 years older than me. But anyway, we saw a lot of

really talented great actors for the part, but nobody was quite nailing it. And then our casting director said to me one day, would you be open to looking younger for this role? And I said, yeah, like it doesn't have to be you know a specific age is just the way I wrote it and she said because if you're willing to look a bit younger you know who I think would be really funny in this role is Nancy Robertson and I knew Nancy from just being you know I knew who she was she was a very high level comedic improviser with Vancouver theater sports for many years she's literally one of the best comedic improvisers ever and that's not just me you can talk to anybody who's played with So I said, yeah, Nancy Robertson is funny.

Let's see if she'll read for this. And she did and nailed it. She was everybody's immediate favorite. And so she got the part. And yeah, just through spending time together, we ended up, we found that we had a lot in common. And we found that we were looking forward to spending time together. And so it went from there. Now we've been married and we got married after, well, we got, we got married.

after, well, got married in 2005. So what was that? After the second season, after the first season. Beautiful. And I had the interview with Lorne Cardinal, and he talked about the impact that he never expected from the show. He was being reached out to from people in the military saying they were in Afghanistan, using this as their comfort show, using this during rocket attacks and other challenges

that were going on where they were. And once I posted that clip, I started getting inundated with people with similar stories where they were in the darkest hour and this show really helped them. Would you mind sharing some of your own experiences on how this show has impacted others? Yeah, I mean, it took us all by storm. We didn't, like I kind of didn't think anybody was going to watch, never mind be impacted by it. So we all just sort of made this show. We sort of went into it thinking not a good likelihood that's going to be a big audience. You know, Canadian sitcoms historically hadn't done well in terms of big audiences. And, um,

This was sort of a, you know, an odd premise, gas station in Saskatchewan. So who's going to watch? So we made a show that we liked, that we felt we could be proud of. And I think that resonated with people. And there was a, yeah, people took a lot of comfort from the show. We've often had people reach out saying how, you know, they, watching the show with their parent who was going through an illness, ultimately dying from the illness.

And that half hour every week that was the one moment where they would see their sick relative laugh or have some comfort. You know, we heard countless stories like that where people gravitated to the show as sort of a respite, sort of a, you know, they liked it. They thought it was funny, but they took comfort in it. And the fact that, you know, one of the things we heard a lot was people saying it's the only show that we can, that we all want to watch together. Like the teenage kids, the parents, the grandparents are all, you know, would be like, hey, is Corner Gas on? It's time to sit down and watch Corner Gas. And I think there aren't a lot of shows that sort of stitch across all demographics like that.

And, you know, for whatever reason, people, I think they looked at Corner Gas and they looked at it as a show that wasn't trying to be something. It wasn't. We just said, this is what this show is. And this is what we're going to do. And as a result, people felt like they weren't being sold something, and they sat down and just enjoyed it. And, yeah, it's something I take a great pride in, the fact that it sort of brought families together. I certainly feel the same way. With the live show, you had so many opportunities to collaborate, and that seems like it was a cornerstone.

Regularly episodes would have prime ministers, individuals of great influence, important Canadian figures, and we also don't see that very often, where we're able to highlight and bring some people and remind you of other great Canadian talent, was there a standout moment for the live show that stood out to you where you were like, how are we doing this? How did this come up? Yeah, I mean, there were a number of them. Like when we had Daryl Sittler on, you know, suddenly we had, you know, there were a lot of dudes that I had never seen before who were standing there with a broom, like, yeah, I work here. There were a lot of guys coming down to see Daryl Sittler. but um you know tragically hip when we had tragically hip on to do their cameo we were shooting them

first thing in the morning they were first seen up and you know so we probably the cameras rolled at maybe 730 something like that and um they were sort of warming up before we started shooting and you know myself and nancy and fred we were we were and the crew were like we're having a private concert by the tragically hip at 7.30 in the morning, you know, and there's like, it's just for us. And they were just banging it out. And it was a very surreal moment. That was another day where we had, you know, there was 800 crew members that we had never seen before swirling around the set. I don't know who was running security that day. But a lot of people were coming through, a lot of friends and family coming through on tragically

hip day. So it becomes a movie, it becomes an animated series. It obviously takes off and continues to grow, but it's now come to a close. I'm just curious about what it's like to have gone through those different periods, those different timelines of the movie and the animated series. What were some standout moments from that? Oh, I mean, stand-up moments there's so many. I mean, just the fact that we got to do this at all was amazing. And then the fact that it connected with people and we got to do it for multiple years. And corner gas became a thing that I was working on for, you know,

I thought we were going to do 13 episodes. We ended up doing, what, 17 years of banging out corner gas stories. And, yeah, so it was just, you know, something that we never thought was ever going to, like when people say, were you surprised at the success of corner guests? Like, I can't articulate how out of left field it was. Like, you know, being surprised doesn't quite cut it. Like, I really thought we were going to do 13 episodes. And then I would just go back to doing nothing but stand up, you know. Um, so this has been, like, I can't overstate what a blessing this run has been, you know, everything that I got out of.

of it, all the enjoyment, I got a wife out of the deal. And, you know, it sort of catapulted me from playing clubs to playing theaters when I go on the road doing stand-up. And yeah, I mean, it's just changed my life in a hundred thousand ways at least. Do you feel like there's a lesson to be learned that it's not always what you expect? It's not always the way that you see it. It's sometimes an idea that catches you off left field that you're not prepared for, but you have to follow through with it. You have to chase it. Once it comes knocking, you have to follow through on those opportunities when they come up.

Well, if it feels right, like, you know, an opportunity doesn't automatically, it shouldn't automatically be pursued. You know, it does have to feel right. It has to, and I want to be clear, like on every front corner gas felt right to me. Like, I wanted to do this show. I knew it could be funny. I didn't know if people would respond, but I knew that it could be funny,

and I knew we could make a good show. And so it was, you know, was diving into the opportunity, but it's more about being prepared for when your opportunity comes along. Like, I've written a lot of things, you know, just on my own time because, you know,

I wanted to get it on paper and wanted to see if it was funny or wanted to see if it was a good story. um and and doing the work without the reward like doing the work not for the money um really puts you in good stead for when you know if a door opens and somebody says hey i'm looking to buy something you got anything you can say yeah i got quite a lot actually if you i've been working really hard here in the in the dark and so being prepared for the opportunity when it comes along you know it's like It's like being a backup goalie, you know, odds are slim that you're going to be playing

tonight, but you work out just as hard as everybody else because you have to be ready when your opportunity comes. You've somewhat described that when you're in the thick of it, when you're grinding, you're not able to zoom out and look back on it and understand how everything kind of tied together just so and all the work going into it. You don't get to have that moment of self-reflection and kind of see what you're creating. it's come to a close now. How do you feel looking back on it?

Is the chapter closed? Is the book closed on this? And how is that to process? Yeah, I feel like it's all closed now. I feel like we've already had, you know, so much more than we ever anticipated, you know. It's like, you know, you think you're going to get a bowl of soup and you end up with this buffet that goes on and on all you can eat forever, you know, for like 17 years. so there's no squawking at the end of it when the buffet closes down you're like man i just thought i was going to have a bowl of soup so i certainly feel like we didn't get short sheeted i certainly

feel like we didn't short sheet anybody i love the fact that people wish it was still going because that's just a good feeling that makes you think that people you know that you did something that people didn't want to end and um i've been on the other side of that there are a lot of times you know, TV shows that I just wanted to go on forever and was sad to see go. But everything's got to come to an end. That's just the way the world works, right? And so I have no, I certainly have no regrets about the way Corner Gas all came together and the way it wrapped up.

And, you know, coming back and being able to do this animated run for four seasons was really such a nice way to get back together with everybody with the cast again in sort of a limited, we didn't have to put the rest of our lives on hold and move to Saskatchewan for four months of the year. We were all able to live our lives, but come together on a Tuesday into a studio and record and laugh and have a lot of fun for a day, for a day's work, you know. And it was such a, it was such a great treat to be able to close things off doing that. You know, we never thought that that was going to happen. I always thought the movie was going to be the cherry on top. But the response to the movie was just so huge that it made

the network say, you know, you want to do some more? And so we did, we went the animation route. So, you know, just looking back on it, I, like I said before, there's so many blessings that I took from this show. And I am and will forever be grateful to that opportunity. on that last note you just sort of made a comment about being able to write and write freely I'm just curious with your mind I know you enjoy comics I know you enjoy that level of humor was it nice to be able to kind of let out some unique ideas and get really creative for that period and go in different directions with the animated series yeah very much so there you know there were oftentimes when we were like it was it was such a natural transition

because in the live action show we had this sort of built-in device where we could pop out of reality and see what somebody was thinking. And that allowed us to shoot some jokes that would otherwise have sort of fractured our reality, which I always wanted to, this show has to be grounded and feel real in ways. But we were coming up with really funny jokes that would, if we did them, would fracture our reality. So we ended up coming up with that device, popping out to initially it was going to be popping out to Brent. happy place, but we started using it for, you know, we could see inside anybody's head, quick little jokes. But the problem is sometimes, you know, it's a quick little bit, and the cost to shooting a really big thing for a short amount of screen time is sort of cost

prohibitive sometimes. But once we were animating, you know, we could get away with a little more because we're just drawing it. We could, we could do things that were sort of too big for us to do in live action, we could do it because we were drawing it. So yeah, it really allowed us to get a little creative and open up our minds. When you have something that blows up so big and has such an impact on people, that's what you become known for. Being typecast as that person and that version can be a challenge for individuals. And it doesn't mean that you're not grateful for the incredible opportunities and the benefits

people have had with that, but you're a dynamic person with different interests and different understandings, you start to look at creating the psychological thriller, huge, which is fantastic. But I'm just curious as to what that process was like to move towards something where you know that some of your audience is expecting what they've always gotten and then you're moving in this new direction. Was that a challenge at all? Was it a challenge to reflect on that? I knew it was going to be, you know, I knew that what I was writing was very different from anything anybody had seen me write before. because it's not a comedy.

For those who don't know, Huge is not a comedy. It's about comedy, but it's a dark psychological thriller. And it gets quite dark and quite violent and very gritty. And it's kind of a scary book, which is like what I like to read. And I knew I was going to write this story.

It had percolated in my head for a long time. And I knew I wanted to write a novel at some point. And so when the world kind of shut down for a while, I thought, well, now there's no experience. use now if I don't start writing this novel now and this idea that I'd had was the one that I decided to write about and but I knew I was just going to do it so it wasn't like well should I do this because people might not respond to it if they if they expect me to be you

know sort of lighthearted friendly comedy guy this is very different it wasn't like that it was like well so I wasn't deciding whether to do it or not based on that I knew I was doing it, and then it was just a secondary thought. It's like, yeah, I wonder if anybody's going to read this or respond to it because it's very different. But that's not the type of thing that ever, you know, I don't sort of choose my projects based on what I think people are going to watch. Like Corner Gas is the perfect example. We went into this not thinking anybody was going to watch. you do it because it feels right and it's creatively it's good and you enjoy it and you know you i i just got to get

stuff out of my head i just got to do what i'm going to do and and you know i cross my fingers and i want people to like it and i hope they like it but i don't do it trying to make people like it i don't do things trying to make people like it you know i do it because i want to do it and um you know luckily just sort of the way my head works a lot of what I produce you know is pretty accessible to people may or may not be a cup of tea but it's not you know people aren't running away screaming or being

hating me for being offensive or something like that but that's just the way my head works but you know huge is very different huge is like I said it's dark and it goes to some scary places but it's basically you know in some ways I just look at it as it's just sort of a It's a monster story, so it's going to be scary. You've mentioned this a few times.

It comes in your head and you have to get it down. And my fear is that other people don't do that. Other people might have great inspiration. They might have a great idea, but they never get around to following through on it. They don't pursue it. They don't push forward on it. What advice do you have for other people who might have ideas in their head and they're not following through on it? They're not writing it down.

They're not putting it into the world. they're not kind of following that step. You're like, once I have it, I need to put it down. Even if it doesn't go anywhere, I need to get it down and see if it's something. Yeah, I mean, I'm always, you know, I'm sort of hesitant to give people advice because there's so many variables, so many factors in everybody's situation that it's, it's difficult to be, you know, from the outside going, here's what you need to do. This is all.

This is how you do it. Yeah. Everybody is different. So what, for me, I get it down because I have to. It's not because I feel like, oh, I should. I don't want to let this idea go away. It's not like I'm doing it because I feel I should or it's pragmatic. I do it because I will go mad if I don't, right?

I've had days where I can't think of anything else except some stupid scene in my head. And if I don't get it down, I'm literally, I'm not going to be able to drive the car today because it's all I can think about. Or a tune just swirling and swirling in my head. I remember one time I was haunted by it for whatever reason. I still didn't know where this came from.

A picture, it was a blue apple on an orange background. And so it was in my head for about four or five days nonstop. And I finally just went and bought a canvas. And I painted a blue apple on an orange background. I had no idea where that painting is, but it's, then it was out of my head. So for me, I just do it because I have to. But I think for a lot of people, a lot of people like the idea of sitting down and writing something. But just from talking to people, I've sort of learned that a lot of people are, you know,

the thing that stops a lot of people is that they're afraid what they're going to put down isn't very good. And that's a scary thing for people, I think. I think they think, well, maybe I have a story or maybe I have a script or a book, a play, a song, and it's good in their head. And they're afraid if they write it down, it's going to not be good. That fear of realizing that what I thought was good in my head is not good here stops a lot of people. So if you can get past that and just accept the fact that, you know, the first time you write something down is probably going to be garbage. I mean, it is for, it is for everybody, you know, a lot of your top writers, you know, that they write something down so they can fix it.

That's really what it is. You can't edit a blank page. So you write something down. You do the best you can with it, but don't worry about how good it is because you can make it good later. That's the idea behind it. I sort of live by the idea that the first draft,

whatever you're doing, the first draft is me telling myself the story. Nobody's going to see it. Nobody else is going to, you know, nobody's going to read it, nobody's going to hear it. This is me telling me the story. And then I get to listen to that story and go, eh, I don't think that's anything.

Or maybe I'll go, well, that could be something. It's kind of garbage right now, but I see where that could be something. If we knock a couple of the knobs off it, file this part down, move this over here, move here, and make this person old instead of young, now we maybe got something. And now you've got a second draft. And you look at it and you go, well, that's a long way from being good, but it's much better than it was. So what if this old guy was old twins, you know, whatever it is.

The idea, I think a lot of people are frozen at the idea of what I put down might not be very good. Well, that's, it's just going to be not very good. That's why when you draw something, you do it with the pencil first, because you're going to have to probably erase a lot. So you do the pencil line. Like the best artists in the world, people working for Marvel, do pencil first, right? Figure it out. You go, oh, that guy's head's way too big there. You got to drought down.

So don't worry about making something good right away. Just make something. And odds are you can make it good. You can at least make it better. So don't let that stop you. Do you also feel like there's a danger in falling in love with your first idea? It seems like you were really flexible throughout all of this to make minor modifications to change this where it needed to be changed and not fall in love with. This was the initial presupposition of the idea and it needs to stay that and any deviation is a problem.

It seems like you've been open to the idea of being flexible and dynamic with the idea and making sure that it still holds true, but that it doesn't need to be exactly what you wrote down the first time. Yeah, I mean, you sort of have to trust your instincts. I mean, so for me, my instincts, my history has been, well, you know, you've been wrong a lot. So there's a chance you might be wrong here again, you know. It's not like up to the current point in my life, I've never made a damn mistake or I've never been wrong about anything. So if somebody says, you know, you know what I think might make this better, I'm all ears. I'm open to it, you know, especially if it's somebody who's, you know, understands the business or understands the industry that you're working in. But even if it's not,

you know, sometimes you get a better objectivity from somebody outside whatever given genre you're working in, right? Just because they're not tainted by it. But yeah, I'm always open to that. And, you know, I come from a collaborative, you know, I'm the youngest of seven kids. There were nine of us living in the house. And we were always up in each other's business all the time. You know, you can't, how are you going to not be? And so we lived sort of a very collaborative life. And even though I got into stand-up, which is a solo pursuit, you sort of surround yourself with these other like-minded misfits.

And you share that and you bounce ideas off each other. And then when you get into writing TV, it's such a collaborative. It's such a team sport, TV production, film production. You know, everybody's got to be working together. And so, I don't know. I'm open to ideas. I'm open to the notion that I may be wrong. But at the same time,

I do have a level of confidence in that voice in my head that says, no, they're wrong about this. You know, you should stick to your guns. One of the, an example that comes to mind was, especially in the first little while in Cornagast, first season when we were putting it together, the network was very concerned that the show was too slow,

slow and quiet. It's going to drag down, you know. And I said, this is a show about a gas station in Saskatchewan. That's what you bought. It's not, it's not high-paced thrill a minute, you know. And I think people are going to respond to that. In a loud, crazy world where there's nothing but explosions and monster fights, you know, a big blue sky and a few people sitting on stool is, cracking jokes to each other, that might appeal to people. And I just felt that it, you know, it needed to have a certain pace,

and if that pace was slow, I remember saying that one of the network executives, I said, you know, the answer to all the world's problems is not floor it. Put your foot to the floor. You know, that could often be problematic. Sometimes the answer is taking your foot off the gas a little.

Fantastic advice, and I think in a time like now, is very useful for people to keep that in their minds. What was the process of writing the book? Did you have a layout of how it was going to go, like the storyline? Or while you're writing, you're sort of putting things together and seeing where the story is about to take you? It's a bit about it. So I sit down with a bit of a structure, a bit of a framework, because I like to know where I'm writing to. I like to know the point that I'm writing too. So plans, plan plot points.

But you also go into that knowing that odds are I'm going to come up with better ideas through the process of writing than I could just sitting here pulling ideas out of the air. You know, I often say I have a hard time writing outside of writing. Like for me to write good, I have to be writing. Some people are able to go for a walk. and solve a plot point. I can't do that. And I've tried.

You know, things will come to me now and then, but for the most part, and maybe it's just because I'm scattered. I'm a bit of a scatterbrain. I really am. I'm all over the math. I have, you know, I'm thinking a million things at once.

But when I start writing, I feel like I'm just thinking about this. And things come to me in a way that they wouldn't otherwise. So I create the framework and the structure but it's pretty you know I usually go into it with like seven points in mind

and and I know going in I accept that I'm probably going those might change because I'm going to come up with better ideas as we go through this and sometimes just to keep the the train moving

because I'm a big believer in getting to the end and then going back and fixing you just want to keep moving forward and get finished something. So I will make notes or sometimes even in the, if I'm writing on my laptop, I'll write a sentence and I know that I'll come up with a better idea or where this scene should be going. I'll just write that in. I'll say, you know, change what you just wrote so that it's, you know, whatever my new idea is. And I'll highlight that in red. And then I'll

just keep going, you know, going from that point in the stories. So I try not to go back and It's very counterproductive for me to go back. You end up, you're like, wow, I've been working for six months. I'm still on page 15. It's quite a good 15 pages, but this is where I was six months ago. I mean, I even sometimes, I have a actual manual typewriter. I'll sometimes write a scene. If I don't know what the problem with the scene is or what the scene needs to be,

I'll actually write it on my mechanical typewriter because it's so difficult. You can't go back and delete. You've just got to keep plowing forward. And the process of moving forward is usually you will find that nugget somewhere in there. One of your gifts throughout your whole career has always been attention to detail, really allowing the reader or the listener or the viewer to really understand exactly what's going on, particularly with the book huge, I was being able to see exactly when you go into the hotel room, that whiff of bleach.

Like those attention to detail moments are so fascinating to me. Where do you think that comes from for you? Yeah, I mean, I'm fascinated by it too, like you. And so that's what I write because, you know, as I'm sort of writing this scenario, and I'm a big overwriter. I write a lot more than is required. and then you sort of edit the chunks away, but it's in the writing of those details

and overwriting some of those things that you find neat little moments. And so, yeah, I just think, you know, the devil is in the details, right? That's where you've got to get in and muck around. That's where you make it good. And people often overlook details, little, you know, I think in a comedy background,

people really underestimate how, delicate comedy is and how tiny little microscopic changes to things can make a huge difference. They can make the difference to a big laugh or like absolute crickets in a joke, whether, whether, you know, you might, a joke might bomb because the punchline has the word Wednesday in it and you change it to Tuesday and it gets a big laugh. You know, it can be little things like that. And so I sort of come from that background, that place. But even as a kid when I was drawing. I love the little details. I love wrinkles and clothes. I love like crows feet drawing like little details. There's something about that my mind feels comfortable exploring the nooks

and crannies, little details of things. And it shows up in my writing. I've heard it said that the artist brings back things into the forefront of your mind that as a child you would have seen. But when you get older, it's just a flower. It's just a tree who cares. And the artist does a terrific job of bringing that back to the forefront and allowing you to see the beauty in a clean hotel room or other things. I like that idea. I've never heard that, but I like that. I think it's accurate. And I know that, you know, I think a big part of any success that I've had is the fact that I, you know, I only grew up so much. There's a, there's a big part of me that is a six-year-old kid, you know, going down with, you know, getting adults.

from my dad on Saturday and going and getting a Spider-Man comic book and a bottle of Coke and then trying to figure out where to spend that other 50 cents on some sort of gizmo that would help me fight crime. You know, I'm not so far from that kid. You know, I weigh quite a bit more. But aside from that, you know, there's a good chunk of me that is still that kid. I'll, you know, Saturday I'll get up and have a bowl of cereal and put a Spider-Man cartoon on YouTube and watch.

I yeah I'm in many ways I'm still that kid I just have sort of a better grasp of the language now and you know I got a bit more money in my jeans but I'm drawn to a lot of the same things I mean I like cigars now more than I would have when I was six cigars and whiskey are more a now thing but Spider-Man and cereal is still in there hopefully not mixing the two at the same time yeah yeah a nice glass of milk and a cigar Who doesn't love it? The other interesting piece about the book is, as well, it's not a true story, but the brilliance of it is that you do tie in so many realities of the comedy world

and the challenges comics face. Would you mind talking about that? Yeah, it was an attractive idea to me to really sort of peel back the curtain a little bit for people who don't know what it's like to be a comedian on the road. Because it is certainly, you know, the farthest, thing away from glamour that you could get. And it's really like live and hand to mouth

deciding what you can and can't afford to eat or whether you can eat and you know, hoping you don't have to share a hotel room with some lunatic that you just met. You know, it's not a lot of glamour, but on the other side of it,

you know, you're really pursuing a dream and it's something you know, one of the main characters in the book talks about or you know he thinks about it that this is a tangible blessing like every day all these little things that you get to go through that you have to go through is a tangible reminder that you unlike a lot of people are in the middle of pursuing a dream um a lot of people have dreams and they're not in a position to to dive in and go chase it and if you get the opportunity if you're able to chase your dreams that's a blessing so

I wanted to sort of, you know, just shine a light a little bit on what it's like, and just the things that people don't know about. When you go into a room as a comedian, you go into, you know, I'm going to be playing this pub tonight and you walk in, you look around and you see what's going to be problematic, you know, the TVs are on, are they playing pool? Are they taking a cover at the door? You start assessing and you start thinking, okay, what can I, how can I tweak? There's some problems here.

Can I get management to change this or this before the show starts in 15 minutes? So these are things you think about, and I just wanted to make people aware of it. And it's a nice bit of feedback that I've had from people who've read the book is saying, well, I really learned a lot about being a comedian. Yeah, I think it's really important because it's in some ways the hardest job because there's a joke in the book about how, like, is there a school for this? And there really isn't because it's your style. It's your story.

It's your journey. But one of the things you highlight is how all of the different characters find their journey in. And some go through adversity in their life. Some, it's like losing someone that really makes them wake up to the idea that they need to go get after this and that this is what they need to follow through on. And I thought there was a beauty to that because it's not always the good things that are happening in your life that cause you to go chase your dream. Sometimes it's the hardest things that you've been through. Yeah, I think we're all made up of those moments in our lives, you know, the good and the bad and the hard and the happy. They all sort of

who we are. And yeah, I mean, at its essence, you know, I never write with a theme in mind, but I always recognize a theme as I'm writing. And I realize that with huge, it's really a story about loss. The three main characters have each suffered a great loss, and they're each changed by it in different ways. You know, with one, it haunts them, with the other, it drives them and the other sort of gets turned into a monster. But these branches of their life, the paths of their life are all sort of stemmed off a moment of great loss for each of them. And, you know, we all go through these big losses in our life and we're all shaped by it one way or another. Beautiful comments. You described one of the characters Dale and his comedic style. Can you describe

yours to us? Mine's just very conversational. I think I'm at my best when I'm rambling, and that's not to say I don't put time into crafting the joke, but, you know, I'm very conversational. I think my best jokes don't

sound like jokes. They sound like a guy telling you sort of a story. And that developed naturally. And I think I think comedy's at its best, when it's well like anything it goes back to authenticity like when i first started doing stand-up for a while i started doing a character for a while a really super nervous guy and it was kind of a fun character to do

and the crap it got big response from the crowd because it's like really nervous care a lot of the jokes would come from him being very scared and screwing up and saying the wrong thing and that's sort of what the it was like character comedy kind of and it was doing well but what i found was i wasn't having fun doing it because it was this other guy getting the laughs you know this character was getting all the laughs i want to get the laughs whatever my psych my psychosis is whatever itch i need to scratch in there i want to get the laughs so i went back to just being myself and it's much more fulfilling and i think comedy at its best is when it's authentic when it's truest to what the the speaker is like i always say that i'm most myself when i'm doing standa that's when that's when that's

the most real version of me you're going to see or sitting on the sofa watching miss marple with my wife that's also very much who i am i have to ask about one of the lines i think it's just it's very deep teens are the true artists in cruelty equally adept at splashing paint in wide garnish strokes as they are at applying microscopic subtleties that stain the psyche on a strictly subconscious level. It was one line I just couldn't get out of my head and I thought it was incredibly deep. Yeah, I mean, I think teens do have a peculiar gift for cruelty, partly because it's a, you know, they're in the sweet spot where they're good with the language, they're, they can see things and spot things, but they're often, you know, they haven't gone through

things to sort of give them as much empathy as an older person might have. And so they're in this dangerous zone where they have a certain amount of skills and a certain lack of wisdom. And that's it. That's dangerous, you know. And so, yeah, I find that teens do have a particular gift for cruelty. I think anybody who's gone through school knows that or has seen it, right? Like how many, you know, you see kids get bullied in the playground, you know, in grade one or two or whatever. And, you know, you can carry on through college and, you know, your whole life, you're going to encounter bullies. But that window, that sort of junior high high school window, wow, people can be needlessly cruel in that window of time. Can you talk about the antagonist in the book?

I thought you did a brilliant job of making a real monster. and one that terrifies you as you're reading and you're wondering what's going to happen next and and the consequences and is this going to go as far as I think it is. What was that process like? Yeah, it was, I find Hobie to be a very interesting character. I really enjoyed writing Hobie because he's a lot of things. And principally, like you said, like certainly when you first get to know Hobie, you know, he's enormous. He's said to be in the book, at least six foot five, probably more. Very muscled. He's clearly a dangerous, he has the potential, he has the capacity for, you know, he would be too much of a handful for almost anybody in a physical

situation. And then as Dale and Wren spent time with him on the road, and they start to see that he's maybe not wired upright, that, you know, there are some wires touching that should couldn't be touching in there. And then it becomes that situation of your sort of, you know, how nervous are you? You're in a van with a gorilla, you know, and they're kind of quiet right now. But if they want to reach across and strangle me or bite my face, it could happen. And there's not a lot I could do about it. It's a, you know, it's kind of a scary situation.

And, you know, I've been, and all comedians have been on the road with somebody where you're like, this is this person does not think right and there are a lot of places to hide my body out here i wonder how this is going to go and that's kind of what i wanted to capture with this is just that sort of dread the dread of being with somebody that if this goes sideways it's like having a killer dog in the seat beside you if this dog decides to go haywire what's going to happen and i feel like it could happen at any moment. That's sort of what Hobie's like. You feel like it feels like this guy could just go off at any second and you're wondering how that's going to play out. There's a lot of dread with Hobie. It seems like we're in a time where comfort

is the top commodity. When we're ordering off of Amazon, we get things so simply. Life has become a lot easier for us. But it's oftentimes in the darkest moment. that we really figure out who we are, what our philosophy is, and what our values are. That was also a standout point. It's one of my favorite things about horrors and psychological thrillers is that in those darkest moments, people get to redefine who they are and they get to see who they truly are. And when I was a kid, a subway in Chilliwack was getting robbed and I went after the person, chased after them, tried to get their license plate, called 911, tried to figure out what was going on. going on. And in that moment, I define myself as the person who does something when things go wrong. When a problem arises, I'm going to step in. And I felt like the characters did a great job of you developing them to be the people who look in words to try and figure out who they are in the darkest moments.

Yeah, I think we're often defined by how we respond to adversity, right? When you, it's when, how do you respond when you get knocked down? you know you can it's easy to be a certain person when everything's going your way um but conversely i think too it's sort of like if you have it too easy too good that can kind of reveal who you are too you know i think maybe i think maybe it lies in those extremes extreme adversity or extreme comfort and luxury how do you respond in that those moments, you know, like we're talking about, like in moments of adversity, how we respond, that tells us a lot about ourselves. But also, like, if you have, you know, you hear stories about people who are like fantastically wealthy and powerful and famous and, you know,

people, anything they want, you know, it's going to go their way. There are people like that that you hear are incredibly nice and generous and kind and not that different from who they were when they were struggling. And then you hear stories about people who are, they take this opportunity of the position of power to be complete a whole. So I think, you know, when, when everything is going your way, I think that reveals a lot about you too, you know? Are you, you know, some, are you good to people when you don't have to be? I think that tells a lot about somebody. That's a really good point.

Can you tell us about when the book is releasing, what people can expect, and where they can find it? It's publishing October 3rd. It's going to be in stores October 3rd across Canada and the U.S., wherever you find your books. It's available for pre-sale now, you know, basically wherever you would get your books. If you have a favorite bookstore or if you go online,

to buy your books. It's available wherever books are sold. It's starting October 3rd. And the response has been very gratifying so far. People seem to really like the book. And people seem to be very surprised at what I've written here because it's very different. Is there any nerves that go into it? Any sweaty palms as we get closer to that release date? How do you process a big event like this. Yeah, there's definitely sweaty palms and you know, I don't, I don't, this is something new to me and I don't know what's going to

happen, but I, you know, I just wrote about this on my substack today how I love diving into new things that I don't know much about. I love cannonballing into a different situation and, you know, as long as

there's no physical harm in the way. I'm not like a paratrooper going to jump it behind enemy lines, but If it's something like, you know, like Corner Gas, I didn't know about creating a TV series. I had been involved in making TV, but to executive produce a TV series was a completely different animal. And you dive in and you learn as you go and you teach as you go. And that's such a sweet spot. So you're asking questions and getting answers and people are asking you and you're giving answers.

It's this great human moment of learning and teaching at the same. same time. And that's how we look at any new situation, which this is. I grew up watching your show. I grew up looking up to you. I've learned so much through your journey of highlighting individuals who are making a difference. And you've done such a great job of reminding us to look at the small moments, see humor in it, and make sure that we're being the best people we can be. And I just, I think you're just such a positive influence for people. And I think I can't thank you enough for doing this. You've been a highlight of doing this podcast. I can't appreciate you. Got up, stupid?

How about that? I put a little twist at the end there. Well, thank you. Thanks for all that. Very kind words. I appreciate it very much. Tober third, I think people should absolutely read it. We've got a dog cameo going on in the background for people who are just listening.

You have a beautiful background. Thank you for doing this. How can people follow along with your journey? What is your Substack, your Twitter, your Instagram? Yeah, you can find me, Brent Futt on Substack.com to search my name. or on Instagram is the best place probably at Brent Bus. Thank you again for doing this. My pleasure.