Nuanced. - 13. Jason Lum: City Councillor & Business Owner

Episode Date: September 24, 2020

Jason Lum is a Father, Husband, Chilliwack City Councillor, Chair of the Fraser Valley Regional District, Director of Business Development for Myriad Corporation, and strong community member. Lum’s first two terms saw him take an active role on several Committees, including Chairing the Public Safety Advisory Committee,  Vice-Chairing the Transportation Advisory Committee, as well as acting as the Council Liaison for the Chilliwack Innovation Network, and the Chilliwack Creative Commission. He has been elected three times to the Executive of the Lower Mainland Local Government Association by his peers in Local Government, and most recently completed two terms as President of the Association. His efforts on behalf of the City have helped raise awareness around issues from homelessness and mental health, to flood protection to senior levels of government. In 2016 Lum was elected Chair of the Fraser Valley Regional District, and leads a 23 member board of Directors as one of the youngest elected Regional District Chairs in the Province.Prior to his election in 2011, Lum was the youngest elected president of the Chilliwack Chamber of Commerce, and a board member on a number of local charitable and non-profit organizations. Lum is also a small business owner, and a member of the Mount Cheam Rotary Club, with deep roots in the community. Recently, he was chosen as one of UFV’s “Top 40,” which recognizes 40 outstanding alumni whose ideas, passion, leadership and achievements have helped shape UFV and the communities they serve. Lum is a longtime resident of Chilliwack, and currently resides in Yarrow with his wife, Sheila.Jason Lum's Website:https://www.jasonlum.ca/about-jasonSend us a textSupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

Hello friends. My guest today is Jason Lum. Jason is a father, husband, Chilawak City Counselor, Chair of the Fraser Valley Regional District, Director of Business Development for Myriad Corporation, and an incredible community member. We are doing something a little bit different to start this episode off. On March 21st, the World Health Organization declared a global pandemic. But it was also the day Jason Lum and his wife Sheila welcomed their child, Cedar Jeremiah, Lum, into the world. Shortly after, Jason chose to share the news on Facebook, the message is a few months old, but the sentiment remains the same. Please give it up for my guest, Jason Lum. So I, like many of you, have spent many recent nights awake, anxious, and worrying about the current situation. For the first

time in my life, I worry about the future as I have never worried before. For the first time in my life, I'm worrying as a parent. I knew that it would be anxious about the regular stuff, baby stuff. Neither Sheila or I thought we would be welcoming our first child into the world on the day that the WHO declared a viral pandemic was spreading across the globe. So there's that. Fear and worry can be motivating behaviors, but they can also be extremely unhealthy and debilitating. Fear pulls us apart from each other. It makes us suspicious. Fear makes us act irrationally.

It makes us obsess over social media for hours on end and hoard toilet paper. It's easy these days to succumb to fear and worry. But there is much more than fear and worry as I sit here with my two-week-old son on my lap, smiling away thoroughly unconcerned about anything but when his next meal is coming. As I listen to my neighbor's girls rollerblading around the front driveway laughing and playing, As I checked the new growth in the seeds I planted a few days ago, stretching towards the sunny spot on my windowsill, I realize there's much more than fear and worry. There's hope, there is persistence, there is new life and new growth, and there is community. And with all these things comes a responsibility to act, to protect what we have and what we love.

This is where I know the people of Chilliwack will step up. I'm sure of it. You already know what you need to do, keep your social distance, cough and sneeze into your elbow, something we're still trying to teach our baby boy who likes to sneeze right in his dad's face. Practice excellent hand hygiene, stay away from crowds, only buy what you need from the grocery store. Take care of yourselves and your neighbors. Most of all, keep following the advice and instruction of the medical professionals who are working incredibly hard to keep us all safe. Although this isn't really the way I had envisioned announcing the birth of our boy, Cedar Jeremiah alum,

born in the Chilliwack General Hospital, 6 pounds, 4 ounces. I look forward to telling him the stories when he's older about how the people in Chilliwax stepped up and took care of each other in tough times and he will be proud, like his dad is, to live in this place with all of you. Stay safe, stay smart, stay connected. We'll get through this together.

Dear City Councilor, Jason Lum. And we're live. Mr. Lum, it is a pleasure to have you on the podcast. Would you be able to start with a brief introduction? Sure. My name is Jason Lum. Jason's just fine. It feels weird to call me Mr. Lum.

Jason's just fine. I'm a city counselor here in the city of Chilliwack and the chair of the Fraser Valley Regional District. Well, I'm hoping we can start off just with the political side and get a better understanding of what it's like to live life in your shoes. Sure, yeah. I mean, I don't think it's as dissimilar as, you know, just a regular person living life here in the city of Chilawak, with the exception is that every week or so I'm involved in some sort of meeting or committee meeting or council meeting, making decisions around items in the city of Chilawak. So mostly land use decisions, but also decisions around all the many different services offered by the city of Chilawak.

Yeah, so you obviously have a large support from Chiluac. Obviously, you are elected to your position, and you educate people and bring people together. Obviously, we just discussed a little bit before the podcast, some information you put forward about your child being born and about the COVID pandemic. And to me, you are an excellent example of a role model. Some people don't like politicians, but I think that when you get more local, when you get more community oriented, those individuals can really lead by example. And I think that that's something you've been done really well throughout all of your terms. You've been a city councillor since I was in high school, grade 10, and I've had the opportunity to watch your career progress. And never any question, I've never heard a bad review of you.

And you've been able to lead by example throughout a lot of different circumstances throughout the city of Chilliwack. And so I'd like to start off with more the Chilliwack side of things. and what that's been like in terms of the development from where downtown was to where it is now. Sure. Yeah. Well, thanks. It's very flattering of you to say. So I think doing this work, it's not, again, like it's not dissimilar to any of the other important work that people are doing in the city of Chilwack or the region. But you get a little bit of an opportunity to get involved in a lot of different things. And so the redevelopment of downtown was something that I had the opportunity of getting involved with back when I was involved with the Chamber of Commerce even before I was on council. I was asked to join a downtown redevelopment task force at the city of Chilawak. And we put forward some recommendations, one of which was to assemble some land that was in the downtown, try and package it together and offer it for sale to the development community and see if we could attract some developers to take a look at kind of re-envisioning

some of the more challenging spots that were downtown. Obviously, there is a few bumps along the way. Like anything, there's some pretty challenging, there can be some pretty challenging things to overcome when you're redeveloping in an older part of town, and that was really one of the more established areas in Chilliwack. But what's happening there now, so fast forward, I don't know how many years, more than 10 years now,

we've got attracted a very viable local developer and the Algar brothers and they took on a project of almost one square city block and they did kind of a mix of retaining some of the older established buildings and then they're building some new buildings and a mix of different, a mix of different commercial residential multi-family and I think it's going to be great. It's really exciting. I was down there a couple of days ago, and there's a couple of new restaurants coming and some brew pubs and some neat small retail and shops and the really, really nice multifamily building that's popping up there. So, yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be fantastic. Yeah, it's hard to tell the downtown now from when I went to school at CMS and I had to walk to school.

And the changes that are coming are so positive in comparison to where we were, I feel, like 10 years ago. and I feel like the community is really pulled together and it just, there feels like there's a different type of energy within our community when we're talking about downtown than I think when you may have started where it was pretty doom and gloom and there wasn't a lot of positivity about the idea that downtown could be anything other than what it was at the time.

What was that like for you trying to tell developers and community members that were not done yet? Yeah, it's a bit of a mix too because, you know, things that I always said, even back 10, 15 years ago when I was talking about the downtown is we have to be careful that we don't kind of contribute to the stigmatization of, you know, downtown and the way we speak about it. And, you know, it was very, there was a lot of doom and gloom kind of attitude about the downtown. And that's pretty discouraging when you have businesses that have existed

down there, established businesses that have existed down there for many, many, many years. And so to keep talking about the downtown always in a kind of negative context, it doesn't do anything to help promote people coming down and shopping at the businesses that were existed there even before the redevelopment that was happening. So it's trying to find a balance of, you know, talking about places that we could incrementally improve in the downtown, but also to acknowledge that there is a thriving community that exists in the downtown. And part of the best, one of the best ways that you can support it is to go down and shop,

you know, buy things, make that a choice, make downtown a downtown. destination, you know. So whether it's, you know, it's going to the bookstore or the shoe stores or the record stores or, you know, any of the clothing stores or art galleries or that kind of thing, you know, you can make that choice and you don't have to wait around for a government to tell you to do it or a redevelopment or a developer to come and knock everything down. I was really adamant about that for many years, again, that, you know, I used to hear people say that the only way to fix downtown was with, you know, a D9 cat and to bulldoze the whole place to the ground. And I adamantly disagreed with that. I think, you know, there's a lot to say

about preserving the heritage in Chilliwack. And there's a lot if I just wanted to go and look at, you know, brand new kind of template, uh, boring, uh, construction. then, you know, I could go in the other city around, but if you've got some unique things to preserve and to build on and to reincorporate into some new development, I think why not take that opportunity? And I think that's what the algorithms are doing. And I think it's what's making the work that they're doing unique. But I also think that there are plenty of good examples of that on other parts of the downtown, whether it's Wellington, Mill Street, to all around Maine. So, yeah, I definitely think that that is a good point to bring up,

you did see the Paramount come down and you were the only one who voted against demolition, which I think is something to remember now when all of this is coming together that what you voted on wasn't as much just to preserve a building, but it was to make sure that your stance was known that you are supporting the alignment of both old and new and to bring that together. Like the Royal Hotel is such a valuable part of the downtown because it tells a 110-year-old story. And I think you did a very good job of that. I listened to the Around Chilliwack interview you did, and that was a few years ago now, but you were talking about public safety as one of the key components of addressing this. And I think that that's an important thing to understand is your role as city councilor.

You kind of balance different concepts, which is one, public safety is obviously key, but also it's an individual responsibility to go and support the downtown and try and revitalize that. And that is where people will be like, well, can you fix the downtown? And it's like, well, you can, you're just as much involved as I am. Can you fix the downtown? Yeah. Or you can fix the downtown. You know, that's the thing. You can fix the downtown by going and helping and doing your part and making that

choice, whether you're going to eat at a restaurant the next time or where you're going to shop, that kind of thing. Yeah, it's empowering people to make that choice too. The Paramount obviously was one that I love to have a do-over on where I'd love to see, you know, I thought about that decision for many, many years. And the thing that I really regret about that is I didn't do a good enough job of convincing my colleagues to support retaining that building. Because I still think in the context of what's happening in the downtown right now to have an opportunity, another kick of the can, to kind of revitalize that, whether it had life as a theater, but as something else, just to re-envision or to turn it over to a developer like, whether it be the algorithms or another developer, to see what kind of life they could breathe back into. to a building like that. Because once they're gone, they're gone, right? You never, you never see them

again. And, uh, yeah, I, I, I was brand new counselor at that time. And, um, you know, I think that was the very first, one of the very first decisions where I had kind of broken with, uh, the rest of council and, and really, you know, had kind of felt in my heart that it was the right, the, the, the wrong thing to do to, to, to, to, to, to tear it down. But, um, the interesting thing about that is, to kind of pull your socks up and try and figure out a better way later on to help make a more compelling case to your colleagues when you're voting on that. And we had an opportunity to do that later when we were looking at, you know, voting on the algorithm and the retention of some of those buildings. Yeah, I really liked that because even throughout, I was very young at the time

and fighting for something. I didn't really understand. I still have some of your emails to me, actually. Do you? Wow. Wow. I keep almost all the course. that I ever get so yeah I hope they're good probably lots of spelling mistakes now they're great okay awesome well I do think that what happened back then was so amazing for me because it didn't feel like city council was trying to discourage what we were trying to do it was just that you guys were in a rock and a hard place of what other options like you guys need to come to us with a plan and a solution and if you don't have one unfortunately there's nothing left we can do but it didn't ever feel like city council was like anyone who's

supporting that is being silly and they should just stop. It did feel like you were hoping that something would come out and something would be able to change about the decision that was made. And so I really appreciated that. But in the around Chilliwack interview, you also said something really interesting and I just, I really want to hear your thoughts on it because you said, I'm a part of, I think a seven person team when you're working with counsel. And I think that that's probably the best way to look at it because often when we're voting, we're trying to choose the best person, but it's also about building the best team to address the issues that we want as a community. And so I'm wondering if you can just touch on that and tell us a little bit about

what your seven-person team is like now. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I've had a good fortune of being able to work with a lot of really, really, really good politicians, good community leaders. I've worked now with two different mayors and a whole host of different counselors and all who brought different skill sets to the table the council that we have now is excellent I you know the camaraderie around the the table is really I mean I hope it's evident to people that that watch it if people actually watch council meetings I don't know they do but I shouldn't say that I know there are people that do and you can see that you know it's a good mix of people we don't

always get along and you don't have to, nor should you want a council to always get along. I think you want to have a little bit of tension there where people push and pull and disagree and debate and that's our role. We've got a mix of, let's see, so Ken, so Ken is the mayor. He's being on Kim and I were elected to council at the same time back in 2011. And we got Sue not. So Sue's being, she's served the longest now on council. And so she's the longest serving counselor right now on this council. And she's done quite a few terms. I think goes back to almost, I think 2008. So, yeah, so she's been on. And Bud Mercer, who, he's been fantastic. He's obviously a background in public safety as a RCMP superintendent. And I actually worked with

Bud, a long, long time ago when I was working for the city Chilach. So he definitely has a mix of skills from the, you know, operational side, but also working as in the governance side council, Chris Clute, who's being on council for, again, a number of terms, I think two now, I think. And he's fantastic, very agriculture focused. And he's a farmer and Harv Westring, who again, he's a new, He's a new counselor, and Harv comes to the whole host of experience from the development community, and he's also a counselor as well, and really does his homework. And a good guy to have at the table. Jeff Shields, again, came from background working with the Chilawak Economic Parks Corporation,

works with a CFO of a large company here in Chilawak, works in manufacturing, another great guy have around. Who am I missing? Is that seven? I'm counting. I think we're good. I think we're good. Yeah. So yeah, the team is fantastic and we all challenge each other and we all have a good, I think I can speak pretty openly that, you know, my colleagues would agree that this is a good, this is a very good group, you know, very high functioning council and fun to be around. Well, it definitely shows because one of the things you also touched on in that interview was the development from Yarrow all the way to downtown Chilawak of trying to bridge those divides and have a road like a driveway that you can go all the way from one side of town all the way to the other

and I think that there have been significant developments since that started the bike path oh yeah sure yeah the valley rail trail yeah yeah yeah no that's that was an exciting thing that we worked on as council of the last couple number of terms and you know we're piecing it together involves bringing a lot of people together stakeholders who are involved with the just acquiring the land or the rights to utilize the land and build.

So you're working with the railways, you're working with BC Hydro, you're working with their legal departments and the right-of-ways and stuff. All the exciting stuff you're going to do as a lawyer. And just getting an opportunity to be able to use it to build on that land, to build the path.

So we've been pushing through. You can now go, north-south from, I think, just around Sardis, cross the highway, just over the, we can't lever to bridge off of the train bridge that crosses the highway there by Lakakak, and you can go across, and then you can get all the way to just pass, I think, to hawking now. So all safely and all on a separated multi-use path. So the goal is to push that right into the downtown, going north, and then south to eventually carry it on all the way to Eero. That's such a good idea because it really does unite the community in this ability to,

because I do see people riding their bike, but it's usually on busy roads. To be able to have such a connector is where I think that city council really shows that they know the community and they understand what the community wants because when I found out about it, it was like that makes absolute sense, but I didn't have the idea. And so when those things can happen, it really does show that, the city council is leading by the best ideas. And I think that that's really important to be able to say and for other people to be able to understand and hear from you in that way. So the other thing I wanted to ask about was what has it been like to work for Fraser Valley

Regional District? Because that is something where I don't think many people understand what that is when I just say FVRD. I don't, most people don't know. So could you tell us a little bit about that? Sure, yeah. So the Fraser Valley Regional District is one of a number of regional governments that are set up across the province of British Columbia to provide local government services to areas that exist outside of incorporated municipalities. So they also include municipalities, but they include what's called electoral areas, and we have eight of them. So areas that would exist outside of the city boundary, but still require the same kind of local government services like sewer, water, garbage pickup, that kind of thing. And then they also provide regional governments, also provide a number of regional services where it makes sense to work together as a region rather than to recreate individual services all across each municipality.

So we have things like regional parks. We do things around regional waste management. We do things around mosquito control. We do things around dog licensing and animal control, as well as regional parks, that kind of thing. So there's a whole host of government services that the FVRD offers. And so we are one of the largest geographical, we're one of the largest regions in the province.

We stretch all the way from west of Abbisford, kind of Alder Grove, right against the township of Langley. And then we go all the way past Hope up through Boston Bar and to the canyon. Then we go all the way east almost to Manning Park. And we go kind of northwest, kind of pushing right up against the Squamish Lillooette Regional District. So it's a huge geographical area. And in some places, you know, we're providing services for, you know, a handful of

residences, but they still require those important, you know, some of those important government services. From my position as a board chair, there's, we have 23 board members. So it's like I explain it. like being a mayor of six councils at the same time. So we have 23 different people sitting at the table. They represented by the eight electoral areas. Each electoral area has their own elected director.

And then the municipalities have representation, which is assigned in a weighted manner by population. So the city of Abbotsford will have a number of directors, the city of Chilwak has a number of directors, Hope, Harrison Hot Springs, District of Kent, Mission, they all have regional directors. So in some cases, it's the mayors and a couple of counselors

who are appointed to the table and it essentially functions the same way as a large, large municipal council would. Yeah, that is so crazy. So one of the things I was thinking about when I was driving, preparing for this interview, was you have such a vast amount of space that you help govern. I wouldn't say that you govern it, but you help govern so much space.

Does that ever weigh into your mind? Like you're driving through Harrison or something? And you're like, I play a small role in like the makeup of this community and how the roads are built and how the sidewalks are maintained sometimes. Like that just seems like a lot of responsibility. Does it ever pop into your head is just a simple concept? I mean, no matter what, for me, no matter what I'm involved with it's with the city of or whether it's with the F-E-R-D, it's hard for me to kind of switch my brain off when I'm

driving through any of those communities. I'm always looking at the different projects and the different things that are happening. And most of the time, it's usually, you know, you're very proud of the work that's going on or you're wondering what, you know, if I see a building being built, it's nice to see those projects come to fruition because we see them come across our desks and a lot of times, you know, and the planning throughout the planning and development process and so it's exciting to see it that way you do feel a sense of a sense of responsibility because we don't always make all the right decisions either so like I said they're do-overs so when I drive in around certain places and I see projects that uh I think you know perhaps in or vote the

the results of votes that probably didn't go the way you wanted to you know I wish again like I wish there are some that we could do over again and you you in my mind tends to want to or back to saying like, well, what could have, what could have been there? But this is the joy of working in local government is that you're so close to the decisions, you and the decisions and the projects turn over and happen at a pace much, much faster in a lot of cases than a lot of other orders of government that you really get to see the result of some of your decision making, whether it's good or bad. So yeah, for me, I'm always evaluating, you know, kind of keeping a running tally of the

things that are happening around. And yeah, you feel the responsibility and just try to do your best. That seems like such an important thing for people to start to put into their own lives, because I do think that we're in a point in time right now where people are less accountable and taking less responsibility for their community, maybe not Chilliwack, but as a culture as a whole, I think we're passing the blame to government officials way more than I think we should because you're driving around and seeing these things and saying like, hey, I might have preferred it be this way or just even having that thought in your mind is something that we should be doing as a community and giving more of our voice because another thing you mentioned in that

one around Chilliwack interview was the lack of voting and the lack of turnout is huge. But all the people who don't vote still have their opinions and still complain on Facebook and Instagram, and so that's where I see that divide between that sense of community responsibility. So what are your thoughts on that as we just had another election a couple of years ago on how that's developed? Yeah, that's always been kind of something that's bothered me, is the lack of participation in especially the local government elections.

And I said this like a long time ago. I don't believe it's because people don't care. I know that people care because I hear and see the evidence of that every day in my role. So people do care, but for a whole host of reasons that we've had pretty poor voter engagement over the years. And it's not unique to Chilliwack. It happens across the province where it's, for whatever reason, local government elections are just not as sexy as the provincial and federal. once. And I think one of the, you know, one of the things that, um, I find discouraging about that is that people feel sometimes they, they feel disconnected and, uh, and feel that, uh, you know,

no matter what they do, um, uh, you know, the, the governments are, or the politicians are going to be politicians and nobody's going to care and nobody's going to listen to them and that kind of thing. And I think, um, that's, you know, that's discouraging for people who put their name out and just want to try and do their best and I think all across this province and I've worked regionally I worked provincially um the overwhelming majority of colleagues of my colleagues that work in local government are just regular people trying to do their very best you know and and uh trying to make do and and trying to make their community a better place uh a better place to to to to live in um than the day before and the you know and i think as long as we kind of simplify you know and and and

hold that kind of ethic in our hearts that you know we just want to try and make the place a little bit better and the quality of life a little bit better for all of our residents then i think we're doing okay but um you know the disconnect is hard i don't know what you know there are many many people who who uh trying to solve that that problem and you know i tend to when problems get too vast and overwhelming, my reaction is always, I think we need to pair it down. I think we pair it back, simplify, and just focus on ourselves, focus on being, like you said, trying to be a good role model, trying to do the right thing, taking a day at a time, that kind of thing.

Well, and I really like that about City Council now is because you all are kind of role models for different areas. You all represent different interests and different aspects of the community. and I think that we're lucky enough to have such low voter turnout but yet have such positive representation. And I think that that's one of the benefits of living in a smaller community is we, to me, we get lucky by having people like yourself who do choose to run despite the low voter turnout and do choose to act ethically, responsibly and try and build up the community. Regardless of how many people turned out to vote, you're still acting in the best interest of the community. And I think that that needs to be way more recognized than I think it is. is often in the newspaper and other media sources is a lot of condemnation of a decision

and less appreciation for the fact that at least you did it with an honest mind and trying to come up with whatever is going to be best for Chilliwack, despite whether or not it always is or not. Yeah, I think I said this early on to people. I said, you know what, I guarantee you're not going to always agree with the votes that I, you know, the voting decisions that I make. I guarantee it 100%. So if you think you're voting for me

because you're going to believe in every single thing that I believe in, it's just not possible. But what I will promise to you is that you'll never be taken by surprise. Like I'll never not take an opportunity to explain if we talk about what I was thinking and the logic I was using to come to a decision.

So, well, we might not always agree, I'll try my very best to not take you by surprise and not to put in the time and effort into researching an issue and to make the best decision that I think reflects best across the broad majority of citizens in Chilliwak is not just what I think is the best. It's trying to incorporate what I'm hearing and discussing with the residents. in the city in the city of Chilwaukee. So try not to take people too much by surprise. I think people may disagree with some of the votes and the positions that I've taken, but I don't think many people are ultimately surprised when I make them. Yeah, that's one thing I wanted to ask about, because you are making decisions, but for the most part, they're educated, and maybe some of your critics have not researched, they have not had the opportunity to read the documents you

have the chance to look over, and so they're still very frustrated with the outcome. And so I I was hoping just to ask about what kind of information you receive when you're making a decision, just to give people a better understanding of that it is coming from somewhere. It's not just, well, I don't like the paramount today, so I'm going to, like it's. That's what I felt like today. Yeah. Exactly. It's not like that.

So could you tell us a little bit about the process of making these decisions? Because I think a lot of viewers understand that you're a city counselor, but I don't know if they understand the depths in which the process goes and how rigid it can be at points. Mm-hmm. Yeah. you're balancing a whole host of different information. Like obviously, a large source of information that we get is from our qualified professional staff that we hire for the city of Chilliwack, professional designations. They work in the field for many, many, many years.

They're acting in policy and guidelines and in alignment with their professional standards that they're required to. And so they're giving their information, they're providing their reports to us as counselors. We're also getting, you know, the same kind of level of information in certain cases from the different consulting firms and contractors that we partner with the city of Chilliwack. And then the other huge source of information we're getting from is from the citizens, from people who are on the ground, neighbors, residents, people who phone us up, and say, hey, come and walk the property with me.

I want to show you something that you may not have seen inside this, in this side, this staff report. You know, so come see it from our perspective and how it may impact us and how it may look from the neighborhood perspective. And then there's a whole host of public feedback and interaction that happens prior to a lot of the decisions. And then we're at the point where, you know,

you're you're making a decision you've got public hearings so you've got people who are coming at the at the time of decision making to weigh in after they've had the opportunity to read and look over some of the um the reports that are coming so yeah the the process is a whole there's a whole host of things that go into to making a decision and i mean don't give me don't don't i don't want you to think that i believe that i've always made the best correct right decisions all the time. There's a whole host of times when I go home at night after a long public hearing and I sit and re-evaluate what's happened that evening and you stay up, you know, running it through in your head thinking, you know, because no matter what's happened, usually you've disappointed somebody

along the way. So there are lots of times when I'm sure that people have been a little bit challenged when not just me, but our council has made decisions. And, but, but, but, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't just happen frivolously. It happens after a bunch of research goes into it. Well, and that's probably a tough position for you to be in because you are having your decision made public and reviewed where if I mess up and I make a poor decision, nobody ever hears about it unless I tell them. And so you are in this weird circumstance of having any decision you make reviewed and judged and critiqued regardless of how much, and sometimes that's done without the background of how you came to the decision, what thoughts you went through,

is that ever difficult to come to a decision and then kind of regretted or have a position that you, like, that does sound to keep you up and bother you. What is, what is that like? Yeah, it's just like anything, any decision you make in life, right? I think certainly politicians are not immune to it. It's just that we're not supposed to ever admit that we're wrong, right? Like, that's the thing. It's, it's, I think this is probably why people have such a challenge with with politicians in general because you know you're not supposed to admit when you've made a mistake because in general people are not as are not as forgiving i think of the political class when they when they screw up but surprise we screw up right and it happens and

and i think you're rather than judge somebody on on making the mistake it's you judge them on what they do after that and the character and if they if they're able to to come forward to the community and say, listen, I really, this is something where, you know, I didn't, I didn't properly evaluate perhaps the impacts, and I really wanted to be able to do this again. And in some cases, you have the ability to reevaluate and bring it back for a good, for a second kick of the can and redo something that you made a mistake on. But in a lot of cases, people are very hesitant, you know, especially again, when they think about politicians across all different stripes that it's very hesitant to admit that, hey, I may have made a mistake here

or I may not have made the same decision had I been able to do it again. I do that on a regular, regular basis. And I think the important thing is to be able to stand up in front of the community and say, listen, I don't think that was the right thing. And I'd like to try again and like to do it over. I don't know anybody in their life who doesn't make mistakes, right? You know, you try not to make the same one twice, but... That is so amazing, and you're absolutely right, that that is incredibly rare within politics to hear somebody actually admit,

like, hey, I don't make all the right decisions, and I'm never going to make all the perfect decisions. When you started in politics, that must have been at the top of the priority list of issues that you would have, because lots of people think of running in politics, and one of the things they come to is, I'm going to have to be dishonest, or I'm going to get smeared. How did those things play in in 2011,

when you were having to make, this decision because you obviously know what goes on within other politicians and how they handle things. Where did that come in for you? Yeah. I mean, everybody, I think that when they want to get into politics, they think they're going to do it in a different way. I know, like, I think that's one of the biggest cliches that I've heard. You know, every campaign, I'm not a regular politician. I'm not a regular politician or I'm not a politician. I embrace the fact. I am a, I am a politician. I'm a political. animal. This is something that I've chosen to do. I love it. I understood I came into it with eyes

wide open what the risks were going to be and what the impact was going to be. I understood that people were not always going to be happy with the things that I did. I understood that you're opening up a certain amount of your life to public scrutiny. Not all of it. And I believe that there has to be good boundaries when you do this. And so I wasn't super concerned with getting smeared or having people, you know, disagree with me or people angry at me. What I was more concerned about was, I think, kind of, it's the best way to describe it, starting to believe my own hype, I guess, there you go.

Like, you know, when you're a politician, you're kind of surrounded by, You have the mechanics of staff and bureaucrats and people who are working very closely with you and the public who tend to put you on a bit of a pedestal. And I think there's a real dangerous thing and just starting to believe your own hype a little too much. And, you know, I worked doing this job as a part-time job, so I'd always worked for myself as well. So, you know, it helps keep you, it helped keep you ground. and just try to keep that in the back of your mind that this is a part-time, it's a part-time

gig and, you know, every three years now, four years, I go for a job interview with the public and they'll evaluate how well I've done and decide whether they're going to hire me again. But I also know that I'm not going to do this for the rest of my life and that I certainly better be conscious of the people that I build relationships with. And because before I did this job and after I do this job, I want to be careful that I maintain those relationships and try to be a grounded person that, that, you know, goes through my day to day with the understanding that I'm just, even though I'm doing this job right now, I'm also just a citizen of the city of Chiluac, trying to do my best like everybody else is, right? And this city doesn't work unless we all kind of work together and kind of pull our own weight. That is awesome. And I just had Leonard Wienes on, who's the manager of the Royal Hotel.

Yeah, I know Len well, yeah. Yeah, and he talked kind of exactly the same thing, which is, I work with these employees, but this job isn't forever. I'm going to be leaving this, and I'd like to have some peers that I respect after this. It isn't just about squeezing out the most amount of work. It's about building connections with my community, and this is an opportunity for me to do that. And it kind of sounds like you're reiterating that in a, you're just a person and you're trying to help your community do better and have a future and you're just a part of that system. And I think that that's a great way to go into that. What is it like to go into the debate format of running for an election and trying to build your name and put that out there?

Because you did say you're a political animal so you know what you're doing. what is that process like to be working with these people and disagree, agree, and then go into political mode, and then you have to figure out how to get your message out there. Yeah, I really like campaigning, so I always enjoy that when campaign time starts and where you get to test how really test how well you think you've been doing with the public, and you get to bring the messages that you have in the kind of, um, positions that you that you like to represent on council to the public and test how whether or not they agree with you I love the debate format and I think it's something that we could do we could do better just across the community in in modeling because

educated debate is a beautiful thing where you where you get to to disagree with each other and and really work hard to support or or not support a position but do so in a respectful manner and I think it's one of the things that we're missing in our society now instead we just yell and scream

at each other or write nasty things online about each other but to get face to face or side by side with somebody and to disagree and to debate is a wonderful thing and I think it's a skill set that we need to work more on and something that we need to practice

daily And so campaign time for me, that's always a fun, it's always a fun time. And no matter what, and I've said this to people, you know, whether there's 20 people running or 30 people running, like we've had huge, we've had some pretty, a large number of candidates come and run in a number of the elections that I've run in. And every single one of them, you know, I always try and, you know, at least go and shake their hand and learn a little bit about their, their, their, the politics. and the things that they're bringing to the table. And, you know, I don't think I've ever had a really bad experience with anyone at the end of the day. Unfortunately, there's only six spots.

And, you know, they're, we're in a, we're in a position in a system that has, has to pick some, some, some people to, to, to move to the chair, to the, to the, to the big chairs there. But, you know, it's also keeping people engaged who ran during the election and had some really good ideas. And we, um, one of the things that I really thought that, uh, that Ken did well as the mayor was, uh, he kept a lot of contact information for candidates who ran in, in the election and, um, brought them invited, in some cases, invited them on to, uh, some of our committees and opened up the doors to city hall and said, hey, I really thought there was some neat things that you said throughout the election campaign. And, uh, I, I don't want those to go, you know,

some of those ideas to go unheard and unnoticed and I think we could benefit from them. and that was really cool. I thought that was really, really cool. That is awesome. What is the going door to door feel like? Because obviously you're going to deal with a vast, different amount of population. What is that like to go through? Yeah, I never really liked going door to door too much.

We did some door knocking. I mostly did some door knocking in support of Ken. And generally, I try and think about how I feel when people come and knock on my door at dinner time. and I don't, I'm not usually 100% favorable to it, but, um, but it is important. And I think it, at obviously, you know, we do it because it's, it, it, uh, generates, uh, you know, in some, in a lot of cases, actually, I was, we were talking to people who weren't even aware that there was an election happening. So, um, you know, it did, it, it, it served its purpose there. But yeah, door knocking is interesting and, and, um, you know, there's a whole, um, there's a whole bunch

of theory around, you know, having that face-to-face direct ask where you just ask somebody to support you in your, you know, in your endeavor to be a, to be a counselor or politician, whatever role you're running for. And yeah, I think, I don't know that I would want to necessarily run out to do it again soon, but door knocking, that is, but I liked all the public debates and I liked all the community meetings and I liked all the, like, stakeholder engagement events and um you know and then uh and then during campaign time there's always tons of different things that you get invited out to and so you know i think last time i uh i was in like the rosdale parade and uh we drove uh tractors we did like a plowing contest that i lost horribly

uh so but it was that was super fun it's hard not get on board with that that does sound like a lot of That's excellent. So one of the other things I wanted to ask about was what it's like, because I do think Chiluac is so different in terms of each pocket has such different qualities. So like I grew up downtown Chiluac and for the most part I grew up never waving at people and just doing that casual down the road wave because there were legitimate dangers and I've had I've been in very dangerous circumstances living downtown. But now that I have my license, I get to drive through different communities, Rider Lake,

Yaro, Majuba Hill, Marble Hill, Rosedale, Greendale, all these different communities, and they have such different vibes. And I think one of them is that when you go to somewhere like Rider Lake, the person's going to wave at you and tell you to have a good day, whether or not you're from there or not. And so what is that like for you to be able to work with such different community pockets? As a counselor, it's interesting because we don't have a ward system here. So there's a lot of people who say, oh, you're the counselor from Yarrow, you're the Yarrow guy, you're just going to do all, you know, to vote for all Yarrow things. Well, surprisingly not a lot of just only Yarrow things come to the table at council. So you're, you know, you're not, I'm not

just representing the place, you know, the tiny part of the city where I live, just like the rest of the counselors aren't representing necessarily just their own neighborhoods. And that's a really good thing because, you know, there's only six of us and you'd ignore a large majority of the city if that were the case but yeah 100% agree with you that the city is kind of made up of these kind of smaller little villages almost right and um and with uh some of their own unique flare and some of their kind of um their own vibe like you said and i totally agree with you i'm lucky because i've worked you know i've worked right downtown one of the first offices that i ever worked in was right on now street i've lived downtown so i used to live on hazel and i used to

live on McIntosh. So I lived all over. I lived in apartments. I've lived in houses. My grandparents used to live up in Ryder Lake. So I spent a lot of time up there. And also, we've got, you know, friends and family and up in the Chilac River Valley. Obviously, Euro is where I've lived for 30 years now. And spend a lot of time there. I think, like you said, Like, you can't ignore that, you know, when you talked about the downtown context, that, you know, it definitely had some challenges. But it also has some wonderful, kind of beautiful things about it. I remember when I was living on Hazel, just the opportunity to jump on my bike and ride straight into the downtown and just go to any host of restaurants. Like, if I wanted to be at Chili's, I was there in, like, you know, three minutes.

And, you know, if Sheila and I wanted to walk down and go to Bravo for a nice dinner that night and then walk home so we didn't have to take a cab, we didn't have to drive, we didn't have to do anything, it was just like right on our doorstep, right? So it was so nice and so convenient. And I think so many people are going to benefit from that, not just people that currently live really close to some of the development that's happening down there, but just people who, new residents that we're going to start welcoming down there to some of the new multifamily. family stuff and there's a whole bunch of multifamily buildings that are opening up kind of in and around the downtown and you know in terms of like the smiling and waving at people and stuff like that I really do believe that the you know there's still a lot of that no matter where you go in this community we're a big city you know and we're you know we're not just this tiny little small rural town of you know 40 50,000 people anymore we're pushing 100,000 people and so So it's, it is, undeniably, we are growing and we're growing fast. But I do believe that we can still all model that kind of behavior where you still want to try and get to know your neighbors and still try and build that community every day to reach out,

wave, smile, how you doing that kind of thing. And it doesn't cost anything. It's very easy, you know, nine times out of ten, you get a smile on a wave back, you know. And I think it doesn't hurt anything, but it makes the other person feel good and feel good about being, you know, living in this community. Well, and feel safe. It's a huge one when you're walking down, down. Yeah.

So the other part that I wanted to move into, because you do play such a, you're like an ambassador for the community where a lot of people know who you are and you have this platform where you are able to put out messages. But I think that it's also so cool to see the development of different ideas like I've seen so many of the bike lanes. come out. And I think that that is going to your point, an example of utilizing your position for good and that city council is seeing that bike paths and these types of things are so important. And so what other things are coming to Chilliwack and maybe downtown Chilawak that you could talk about? Yeah, there's a few things that are on the horizon. So we're redeveloping Spadina right now with some more kind of a green street concept with some separated pathways and some bike lanes and that kind of thing i'm glad that you touched on the bike lanes and just in active

transportation so whether you maybe you're not utilizing a bike lane for bikes but there's a lot of people who use them for mobility scooters for just walking pushing a stroller that kind of thing the idea is that we're building these multi-use paths that are accessible for people of all ages and all abilities in a safe manner. And I think, you know, the proof is undeniable that getting people out and into the great outdoors or in and out of their cars and with the ability to travel and experience the city in a different way is nothing but positive. So you've seen investments from council on some of that redevelopment, whether it's

promoting the cycling infrastructure or pedestrian infrastructure. But also tightening up and actually focusing a little bit of density and multi-use, mixed-use density into the town where, you know, we're not just building one type of construction, but we're building complete kind of communities and areas. So if you lived in a multifamily residential spot, the idea is you can come down, you know, from the apartment and, you know, grab a coffee at the coffee shop right below your building, go to a bakery, go to the barbershop, go to your banking, all within walking. distance or biking distance, that kind of thing. And that's kind of complete community design and having the idea to kind of focus on that. I think we've got some, so we've got, along with the development and the redevelopment work, coming in the downtown, we've got some stuff happening over by the cultural center. We've got a pump track that's coming.

So that's going to be new to the city of Jolwak. What is a pump truck? That's a good question. No, it's essentially, again, a multi-use kind of track that's kind of different elevations that you can use on a bike or mobility or a scooter or skateboards or all sorts of stuff where you don't actually need to pedal, but you just use your own momentum kind of on the bike and going up and over the different hills and stuff to build momentum and move around the track. So I'm probably not doing it justice, and Bud Mercer is going to kill me because this was something that he pushed hard, along with the Fraser Valley Mountain Biking Society, who came and presented it to the parks committee where he's the chair. But we have some of the plans online, and from my understanding, these pump track facilities are super, super, super popular all around the province. And I think this will be the largest, if not one of the largest, in the province of BC. So it's pretty exciting.

And there's some space there right around the curling rink that we're going to utilize for it. What else is coming downtown? We have, I think we've got some greenway development that's happening in and around the Cope River. We've been developing what we called the Blue Way strategy, where we were building access in and around the chivalry. Chilac River slu system there so people could get their kayaks and their canoes down and paddle and then combining that with a little bit more rigorous cleaning schedule down there. So we're doing a lot of debris removal in the in the slew system,

just allowing people to get out on the water in a safe way. The one thing I do have to give city council credit for is both Dyke systems, the one in Vetter, is incomprehensible. from when I was running it two or three years ago, because there's been playground set up, parking lots built. It is way more structured and way more accessible to people than before the Vedder Bridge was rebuilt. The changes I've seen within that space

and the amount of people who are utilizing it now has shot up incomprehensibly. And so I just wanted to hear when that started and what that process was like, because where it's come, it's amazing. Yeah, that's a partnership with Rotary to build the rotary trail system. So a good, you know, the good community groups,

that's a tri-club group, so the three rotary clubs partnered with the city of Chilawak and we're developing the trail systems. There have been a whole host of different stakeholders and user groups that have participated in assisting along the way, whether it's Pacific Salmon Society, we've been able to get grants from both the provincial and federal governments to do watershed enhancement all along the way.

But the idea that that's a whole kind of greenway path that loops all the way down past Yarrow and up both sides of the Vetter River. And you can also jog in and off of that onto these little different cells of different pathways and trail systems. And then there's, like you said, there's these pods of parking and, you know, facilities, so washrooms and, Parts, food trucks, the playgrounds, that kind of thing. So it is one of the most popular recreational areas in the city Chilawak. And that's on the south side. We envision seeing maybe a development, maybe not of that exact scope and scale, but to provide an experience like that on the north side in and around kind of the Hope River

and Camp River Slu systems and stuff they got. So that's coming. We've had a few, I guess, road bumps in dealing with the proper regulatory agencies around just building in and around habitat and that kind of thing. And so obviously we want to do it the right way. But I think in the next number of years, you're going to see some action happening on the north side. That's awesome because I also do love the Fraser River and the dike along there because that one is, it's weirdly different than the better one because it is so quiet and because it is so suburban. the Vedder trails kind of become famous and it has food trucks and it has community and it has people waving where the Fraser Valley or the Fraser River one is still so quiet and calm.

So it's so fun to see those differences and be able to have that within your community. The part I wanted to move into is what is it like to work outside of Chilliwack and build connections with other communities and the province itself? Yeah, part of the role of city councilor is to be an advocate. for the community and community needs, both at a provincial and a federal level or regional level. And so I've had the opportunity of doing that as well. I was the president of what's called the Lower Mainland Local Government Association,

which is a combination of all of the municipalities from Hope all the way up through to Squamish. So that encompassed three different regional districts, Squamish, Lillowat, the Metro Vancouver, and the Fraser Valley. And I was, I'm just, I'm actually just completing my final term as the, as the outgoing as a past president here in, in the next couple of weeks. And so, being an advocate for community needs on, on services that are not within the responsibility or not within the scope of local government, but still, we're still, still our community needs for, for, for example, things like homelessness, things like mental health and health care services, well, they may not necessarily become the direct responsibility of local government. We have a role to play and the province has a huge role to play. So it's sometimes being an advocate and reminding

the province that these things are very important and, you know, in a lot of cases, Chilawak and the region is lacking in some of the services that we require. That is a tough circumstance to be in because I know people get mad for people pushing the blame onto other levels of government, but it is the case that the province is responsible for health care and addressing homelessness and stuff like that. Does that ever arise for you where people look at you and blame you for the homeless issues when you know that that isn't your role, but you do have a role to play? Yeah, there's no shortage of blame or being laid for, you know, for some of the really complex issues that cities all across the province are facing all across the country.

But probably one of the challenges is to how to accept that constructive criticism when it's there and without just passing the buck, but just saying like, For instance, you know, I don't think it's helpful to just say, yeah, we have a homeless problem, but it's not our problem. It's the province's problem, and they should deal with it. I feel like it, I feel like what perhaps is more constructive is to say, you know, there are roles that local government have the ability to play, and let's ensure that we are playing those roles. But there are also roles that the province needs to play, and we also need to respect the division of, of authority and governance and responsibility and to me you know we're we need to we need to work together you know we need to to pull in the same direction for these for us to have any kind of fighting chance to to to start to tackle some of these large kind of multi-jurisdictional issues and

And I think it's not helpful to just blame, you know, any one person or any one level of government. Yeah. So just out of curiosity, what is it like to go to those meetings with provincial people and you're a municipal worker? What is that different? Is there any difference? Do they talk about the difference? Or is it just within your role, you're just able to speak to Chilliwack issues? What is that like? It varies. Yeah, it varies. Sometimes the, um, The meetings are, you know, huge, you know, where there's many, many, many different jurisdictions represented and everybody wants their five seconds of time with the minister or somebody who is, you know, representing the province of federal government. I was in a meeting yesterday where we got, there's probably a handful of us, different mayors from a number of different communities. and we had kind of a direct, a real positive conversation with the chief medical health officer and with Fraser Health, and we got to, you know, have very frank, open discussion.

And I think, you know, as long as you're keeping in the back of your mind or trying to keep in the back of your mind that, you know, these are just people who are trying to do the best in the circumstances that they're in for their communities or for their organizations. and you try and not be too hard on the person when you disagree, but just try to be a little bit hard on the issue. And I've never backed away from that. If I think somebody is not being accountable for the things that they need to be accountable for, then I'll say so.

But, you know, you try and stay away from the name calling and from being taking it personal or making it personal. And I think, you know, I hope that in my interactions with people, whether it's here in the city or in the province or federally, they understand that. You know, I'm also take the role. If I get, you know, a little bit heated on an issue, it's because they take the role that I'm in seriously.

That's awesome. Just out of curiosity, when you were looking into running for politics in 2011, did you ever ponder whether or not municipal politics was the right? level, or did that just feel like the right level from the get-go? Yeah, never. I think for a whole host of reasons that local government is where I always wanted to be. Yeah. And so what is it like to be a part of Yarrow, just out of curiosity, because I'd like to get more into the personal side of things and your experience within the community you grew up in? Yeah, I mean, it's a whole different level of accountability because

I was a little kid there. So a lot of the people that I know and who know me and know my family, they know what I was like as a, you know, 10 and 11-year-old and tearing around the city and terrorizing people and stuff like that. So, you know, it's a different level of accountability and expectation. And I think it's, obviously I'm a little bit biased, but I think it's a beautiful, beautiful little part of the city.

And it retains its own little quirky character. And, you know, like I said, I've lived in a whole bunch of different places in and around Chilliwack. And before we had the opportunity to move back, like my wife and I had to move back into Yarrow, you know, you can definitely tell when you're, you know, when you're there. It's still a very tight-knit community. Yeah, slowly growing, but absolutely. So can you tell us a little bit about your relationship with your wife and how that came about? Sure, yeah. So I've been married since 2008.

You just had an anniversary? No, we just had an anniversary, yes, yes. And she's from, grew up in Abbottesford, and we met here in Chilliwack, and she's a year. and she's a youth worker, so she works for, she was working out here at Chilat Community Services, and she works for Archway or what used to be at Abbotsford Community Services. So, yeah, she works on pretty complex sexual exploitation cases with children and young people, so she's got an just incredibly important job. Yeah, she's, she, she, uh, she, uh, she, uh,

She's very supportive of the work that I do, and I try to be really supportive of the work that she does. You know, before we came and talked about this, I was one of the things I kind of admired, you know, some of the posts that you were putting up and how, you know, you acknowledge the work of your partner and how important it is to support each other and to be supported. And I think, you know, nobody can do, nobody can do this life alone. And so to have somebody who's special to you who's supportive and who also holds you accountable and only ways that they can is super important. That is something I don't feel like we get to hear about enough in media and in TV shows is the actual, the day after the wedding and the day after where you guys are holding each other accountable and you're working hard at your own goals and trying to pursue whatever it is. but that that person supports you, talks to you, you debrief with them, you go through what

you did right, what you did wrong, and they give their advice and try and guide you towards the goals you're trying to reach. That's where the relationship comes in, and too often we're way focused on getting into the relationship and not about what the benefits are the day after. And I think that that is something with what you posted. It really does bring people back to connection and to what the value of having a teammate is and having that outlook. And your ability to write this on Facebook was something I wanted to talk about because I think in that moment, it was the most important thing to share. And it is something about bringing the community back together.

And you did that through this. And I think that that's important to recognize and to talk about. So how did you meet your wife? We met at a bar. Yeah. We met at a bar in Chilliwack, good times. Is it still open? I don't think, I think it's something else now, but yeah, for you might be a little bit,

maybe it was a little bit before your time there, but they used to have Bucca Beer Night on Tuesdays, and so I'm a cheap skate, and so I went out and we just met by chance there and had some mutual friends and stuff, and so ran into each other there, and then kind of being together ever since. What did you guys do for your first date then? Oh, I don't even... Well, I guess that would have been it. Yeah.

That was it. It was buck a beer night. I think I splurged and bought her a $2 beer that night instead of a $1 beer. Oh, what a romantic. That's awesome. Yeah, she's going to kill me. No, just we had a lot of common interests. She's a real avid traveler, and I wasn't at the time.

But she really opened up the world to me in terms of, you know, wanting to travel different places in different countries. And she had been living and working in another country. Did she go to school at UF.E? She did, yeah. Yeah. And so did you? Yes, I did, yeah. And what was that like, because you won an award, the 40 alumni award?

Yeah, they must have been scraping the bottom of the barrel when they got to my name. But they were given awards to top 40. 48, yeah, top 40 under 40 alumni or something or top 40 alumni. So, I mean, the thing with UFE is that I've gone on and off. I've attended the university and through different and taking different courses. I've actually never graduated with anything. So I actually, I don't know how many credits I have there, but apparently I've got enough credits to get, you know, a certain, a certain, some kind of degree, but I was more interested in just chasing things that were of interest to me and learning. And I love, I just love education in general. And I believe that having

the university and in a regional university here, but having the university here in Chilliwack is amazing. It's a huge benefit to the city. Which one did you go to? Which UFE? Was it the old one on Yale? Yeah, I started there. And so I took classes. was at that university rate after high school. And then I went, did a number of courses there. I've done courses at the Canada Education Park. I've done courses in Abbottesford. I think I took a course and I think at one point was in Mission.

And I think the only campus I never went to was when they had the whole campus. Yeah, that's wild. Can you tell us a little bit about Myriad Corporation and how that came about? Because that does sound like it was your interest and then you moved away from university to more focus on that is what I'm. guessing. Yeah, so I started a company back in 2004 with a partner and it was around, the company still exists today. It's an IT services and consulting firm and I had been working prior to that. I was contractor for the city of Chilliwack and their IT department. So I'd worked on a number of different projects and for quite a few years. And then Myriad was kind of like the evolution where we

kind of branched out and we took on some more clients. So, yeah, just offer a whole host of different services, technical services. And I work in a capacity of business development. So I'm doing sales and business development, meeting new people, new clients, introducing them to the company and the things that we do. Switching roles a little bit now and as I spend a little bit more time at home, but I've got partners at Myriad, and I hope that that company after I'm finished will continue along, long after I'm done with it. I love being, I consider myself kind of an entrepreneur and always looking for new, kind of exciting opportunities. Where did the name come from?

Myriad? Well, I came up with a name, and it was kind of a certain point, I think it was just more of a reflection on, you know, when you're new and you're chasing business, you know, you're, you pretty much don't turn anything down. So somebody asks you, you know, can you do this? We say, yeah, absolutely, we can do this. So it was kind of a play on the myriad of services that we had offered. So that makes sense. I was wondering because that's what was running through my mind when I read it. That's awesome. And so you've done that. You were also the youngest Chamber of Commerce president yeah um it was it was excellent i um i believe uh you know i believe strongly in the work of the chamber of commerce and uh and um as a as a young business owner in the city of

cholo act when i started uh when we started myriad um it was a great vehicle to to meet new people and to network and to um help you know build some of the skill set that you need for um for surviving as a small business you know i got invited to sit on the board um And then ended up serving as president for a couple of terms. And, yeah, there's just a whole host of benefits that a strong chamber brings to a city. They can help hold the city decision makers accountable and ensure that the voice of business is being heard in the city of Chilawak. And I think, you know, these days, especially during the pandemic, you can see the hard work that the Chamber is doing in partnership with a number of different organizations around just supporting a lot of small businesses in what the economic restart looks like and helping navigate, you know, some of the supports that are being put in place by government. And so I think chambers are extremely valuable.

What are some of the roles that go on there? Because I think most people know what the Chamber of Commerce is as an entity, but we don't know what the day-to-day looks like when you're leading such a team. So there's an executive director and staff that work there, and they do most of the handle most of the day-to-day operational stuff. And there's an executive team and a board of directors that oversees the kind of governance and direction that they're moving the chamber in. And there's a policy and advocacy branch of the chamber that works both locally and

and then provincially and federally across Canada that works to advocate on on issues that are important to business. And then, you know, there are a whole host of different events and programs that the chamber offers as supports for all sizes of business, but primarily, you know, a lot a lot of value for small and medium-sized businesses and being able to, you know, kind of work together, pool resources and get provided. There are group health benefits. There are things that would maybe be unobtainable on your own as a small, as a small enterprise

that you can kind of benefit from the larger chamber network to work together on. Yeah. Yeah. And then my, the area that I was kind of more excited about, the most excited about was probably on the policy and advocacy side. So we're just again, almost doing similar things as you are as a city councilor when you're advocating. But, you know, with a little bit more tight, tighter focus or tighter lens, business lens. What were some of the things that you ran into during your time that you wanted to push forward? There was a number of things. There was, we had done some work around. redevelopment of brownfield, brownfield sites where we were trying to promote changes to provincial legislation that would help encourage redevelopment of sites that have sat stagnant because of environmental pollution, done some advocacy work on promoting some things that we thought

were solutions, some of which were changes around local government, giving local government some additional powers to help encourage some more redevelopment. We did work around mobile business licensing, where we're trying to reduce some of the red tape that was being experienced with some small and medium-sized enterprises and their requirements that they were having to get multiple business licenses for multiple jurisdictions that we're in. So tradespeople, contractors, electricians, that kind of thing,

by introducing kind of a mobile business license so they could get one license and then travel into different parts of the region. It made it just reduced red tape and made it easier for them to do work. It's been a while since I've been doing chamber stuff, but it's just that and then focusing on, you know, just promoting each other and promoting networking opportunities for businesses, bringing them together to help to help kind of support each other as a network. That's awesome. And so the other part that I wanted to ask you about, just because I have you here, is what has it been like with all of the developments that have been going on in Chilawak to kind of be involved and watch people react to them and watch the community adopt the ideas that were put forward probably years earlier that you had started from there and you maybe had a vision of what was coming, but most people didn't know until the Vedder River is all designed. What is it like? to watch that adoption and watch the acceptance from the community to ideas and to projects you've put forward. Yeah, it's really exciting. And like I said earlier, it's one of the

benefits, I believe, in being a local government, one of the benefits and blessings. I think of being a local government politician is the fact that you really, you know, you're more hands-on in the community and the changes that make that you are a part of generally happen. quite a bit quicker. And so whenever I see the public being able to take advantage of, be a part of, embrace some of the new projects or programs or services or things that the local government is offering, I think it's really, it's really exciting. It's also the understanding that, you know, I am one small piece of that, right? So there are, by the time that project is built, there are a whole bunch of people who have contributed in just as meaningful or in a lot of cases more meaningful ways to get it to get it going.

But I think you, you know, you feel, I feel honored to be to be a part of it and to play a role in my own small way. You know, you see that reflected in, you know, a new community park or a playground. and you see kids running and playing and stuff or, in my case, you know, a new trail system or something that you supported as a counselor and you get to go and push a stroller on it with your kid in it and, you know, watch his eyes light up as you're looking at all the trees and the beauty that we have here in the city. So, yeah, it's gratifying. It's awesome. That is awesome. What are some of your favorite things to? do when you're in Chilac.

Oh, man. I, uh, anything, we've got such a, a great mix of, of awesome, uh, restaurants. We had, and patios and, uh, you know, uh, brew pubs. Uh, we've got, um, I think, like just an unparalleled, um, uh, beautiful, uh, outdoors. Um, that, you know, you can get to in, um, you know minutes almost no matter where you are in the city we've got local we've got access to incredible locally grown food so again almost no matter where you are in the city you're your minutes away from being able to to partake in some of the

the tastiest farm the table food you'll get anywhere in the province and I think we have some amazing amenities for a city of our size. We've got a beautiful cultural center. We've got some great leisure centers and recreational facilities. So no matter what your kind of forte is, whether you're into sports or whether you're into the outdoors, you're always very close to some of those amenities. And then I think just like you kind of mentioned, like we've got fantastic people here. We've got great people. And I think, you know, the thing that I always am keeping in the back of my mind is, you know, how do we make sure that we're building a city that is accessible to everyone to achieve the same kind of high quality of life and that we remove

barriers for people to experience the city the way that they want to experience it and to be successful. And I think, you know, again, trying to simplify our role, you just want to leave the city a better place than when you kind of got involved with decision making in it. That is one part that is so interesting because you were involved in the hospital side of things and the health care side of things. And to me, I think we get a bad reputation with our hospital the way it is. But I do think that there's a lot of work going on in the background that people might not recognize and a lot of investments and a lot of trying to build it up to a better place. Can you talk at all to that and where our hospital is heading in the future?

Yeah, it's, I mean, it's something that I'm less familiar with these days than I was when I was the vice chair of the Healthcare Foundation. At that time, when I was working with Fraser Valley Healthcare Foundation, when they had just completed a large fundraising activity to, to redevelop the emergency wing of the Chilwark General Hospital. hospital. I mean, that project was supported by the Fraser Valley Regional Hospital District, of which I'm a part of now, a board member, and I've been a past chair and acting chair of that board as well. So that primarily provides capital funding to a large healthcare projects in the region, not just the city of Chilwaukee, but across the region. You know, these days,

we sure get a glaring reminder daily of how important a viable health care system is and how important. A public health care system is our public health care. And I'm just incredibly profoundly grateful to the people that work and who are working as we speak right now day in and day out to help manage us through this current challenge. But, you know, what became readily apparent to me as I was involved in some of those different organizations was that you have to give these great people the tools that they need to do their to do their job properly so whether that's getting um advocating to get some better equipment or better facilities i think that that job is is ongoing right and um you know health care is incredibly uh the health care system is

incredibly um large and uh and can be unwieldy and uh can be very uh expensive um uh to fund from from a government perspective, you know, they put billions and billions of dollars into the health care system and taxpayers pay billions and billions of dollars into health care. But, I mean, all it takes is something like this to happen when you sure say, wow, like, I'm glad I'm paying every penny that I'm paying in taxes that's going into health care is being well spent. And the piece that I think is going to be incredibly important to fix and to address is. some of the gaps that have become glaringly obvious with long-term care and assisted living and how we honor our elders in society and what a reflection it is on this society

when we can't, when we're failing to keep those important people safe and in the facilities that they're in and providing the services that they need to be provided to keep them safe and healthy. That was one thing that is very current right now is that we do have a large majority of our population is elderly, but we also have this new movement due to social media and the internet where people don't seem to take masks and gloves as seriously and offer the respective like, hey, maybe it's not about whether or not I get sick, but it's about whether or not the elderly lady who comes in gets sick because I don't care. And I feel like that is something I've never seen within my lifetime of people just having that level of disrespect, I guess, towards how important this is not just to you, but to everybody else around you and that other people are vulnerable to getting coronavirus. And there could be larger consequences for other people than just yourself. But this has come through conspiracy theories and really bad ideas. And I just wanted to get your thoughts on it because you get to kind of get a bird's eye view of everything that's kind of going.

on in Chilwaukee, you get to hear about things that I might not be aware of, but these are problems that you have to try and guide our community in. And that's a tough responsibility because there may be a point that they're making on certain issues, but not on, like, it's not as cut and dry as I'd like it to be. But what are your thoughts on what's kind of gone on? Yeah, I try and steer clear as best I can of some of the, the really poisonous rhetoric that happens on social media and then some of the really uh way out there conspiracy uh theories about uh the pandemic and uh in its source and uh who may be responsible and yada yada yada i just i there are so many more important places to put energy in my in my opinion um i think it's

fairly i think it's fairly simple i think it's just respect i think it's uh you know i think it's recalibrating ourselves throughout this and you know i have a mask in my pocket i just doing what i said to you like are we can maintain our physical distancing here and do it in a safe way and i feel safe but i want to ask how you feel you know and if you'd have told me hey you know what i feel more safe if you wore your mask i'd say absolutely no problem so whether i go into a grocery store or a dentist's office or a barbershop or whatever and and and they put a rule in place that says, you know what, I'd like you to put the mask on because it makes me feel more comfortable and safer. Something like that, I'm not going to debate, you know, the merits

of it. I think it's, I think it's clear that it's just you do, you check in with people, you treat people the way you'd want to be treated. And, you know, we're only going to get through this by getting through it together and if that means you have to put aside you know or you have to check in with somebody and just think a little bit of one more extra step before you interact with somebody and whether it's just not shaking hands or you know or being respectful to maintain your physical distancing or or suggesting your schedule a little bit in your day to give yourself a little bit more time you know i i really don't think that's a that's a big deal And I think we just need to keep being respectful of each other and checking in with each other and spending more time holding each other up than tearing each other down.

And, you know, and that's the only way we're going to be successful in getting through this. So just because people are entitled to their opinions, they're not entitled to their own facts. So, you know, we try and maintain an open connection with the medical professionals that are managing the head. the public health side of this, of this situation, and, uh, and, uh, and, and, follow the, uh, the, uh, guidance that's being put in place. Yeah, that is one, one area where it's just, I don't know if I've ever seen it before where we both agree not to do certain random things during the podcast that would just be outlandish, like trying to dance while we're talking. And to me, that's obviously just normal. But then when we bring in these ideas of

wearing a mask, it's almost like the person feels like we're asking. too much and I don't think that that's the case and within a community we we gain so many benefits and I feel like that's what people are starting to forget is that the trail that they're walking on, the roads that they're driving on, the interactions they're having all day long are because of the society or the community and so they're benefiting when they get to go and do those things and so to put up such a boundary of saying like well I'm not going to wear a mask no matter what is it's so silly because you're benefiting from all the work of your community members of all the people around you and to make such harsh decisions seems like you're kind of being

disrespectful, not just to that person, but to all the work that you've put into building these communities and, like, say the cultural center and somebody wants to go there, you helped establish that. So the least the person entering could do is respect the rules that will keep everybody safe because that is a part of the community. And I feel like that's something people are forgetting more and more. And this kind of goes back to my point about our relationship with government and thinking that government is somehow disconnected to us when the point you've made most of this podcast is that

we're a community and you're just a person and you're just trying to act in the interest of the community and I feel like that's what's fading away. So do you have any thoughts on, have you seen that happen or do you think that we're coming closer together as a community? And maybe social media is just misrepresenting what's going on on the ground. Yeah, I mean, I've stated before that I think social media has some great benefits but I also think that it can be incredibly um incredibly poisonous and and can take up a whole bunch of uh of time you know with with people I think um in general most of the people that I see and hear from and speak to are we're all navigating new you know for a lot of us we're all navigating this new territory and it's

important for us to kind of try and do it together, but to also to give people time and space and grace, you know, the opportunity to come to their own, into their own comfort level as we move through this. We have to be conscious and cognizant of the health professionals that are providing direction. Maybe it's, maybe we just get to bite our tongue a little bit. You know, If you've got to, you may get frustrated or you may be a little bit on edge because it's also, you know, it's easy to get worried and feel anxious. I think you've got to take a deep breath, take a step back, and realize that, you know, again, we're community members, you know, nobody's dealt with this before. At least a lot of the people that I'm talking to haven't dealt with this kind of situation before. or it's not helpful to, I mean, it's not helpful, I believe, to start blaming people

or looking for groups of blame. I, I, I had some questions the other day when we were in a meeting and was asking because, you know, there's definitely a lot of talk about the fact that, you know, this second phase or second wave of, of, of the cases that are coming up is predominantly showing up in people ages 20 to 20 to 39. And I don't think it's helpful to paint, you know, everybody with the same brush and to start blaming young people, you know, disproportionately and saying they're the cause of a lot of this because a lot of young people that I'm talking to are also the same people who are the most precariously

kind of employed, the most precariously housed. They got to make their payments. They got to pay their bills. Serb is running out. The EI is running out. It's sure easy for me to sit and pass judgment on somebody, you know, that I still want to be at the grocery store bagging my groceries and say, oh, yeah, you're the reason why this pandemic is happening in the second phase. We've got to work together. And I think it's not helpful when we blame each other or look for scapegoats and stuff. We just got to look to how we can lift each other up and help each other out. And that's the only way we're going to get through this, right?

That's such a nuanced perspective by, because I have seen, even the news saying that it is predominantly young people and it's them partying and if we just shut down all the bars and obviously we've kind of done that. But the approach you're right is it's a mistake just to blame people outright and not consider who are the people doing these types of jobs, these more vulnerable frontline jobs. And that is predominantly young people and so that there are different levels of analysis that you can use. And that's where it becomes important not to pretend that we have facts when we have an understanding of something. And it can be more complex than we realize.

Does that come up a lot in how much have you learned as a city council member? Because that probably happens all the time when you are told that something's going on and you have a mindset before the meeting starts. And then you hear all this ton of new information and maybe your opinion changes throughout. What is that process like? Because you have access to information that most people never interact with. So what is that like for you? I mean, it's all part of the decision-making process.

I think it's all part of being a responsible decision-maker is to keep your mind open to new information and in some cases opposing ideas as long as they're factual and fact-based. And I think, you know, if you just shut yourself down to only one perspective, I don't think it's helpful and I don't think it results in great decisions being made. In this case, it just seems odd to me that, you know, the narrative early on in the first phase of the pandemic,

nobody blamed the 57 to 80-year-old people who were predominantly showing up as the positive cases and the demographic that was predominantly being affected. But now that the demographic has changed, there seems to be more of a, like you said, a nuance, more of a implication that it's because of irresponsible behavior only that this demographic is now the ones that are largely showing up as the positive cases. So I guess it was just,

an observation is certainly not unique to me. I've seen other people make that observation as well. So we just have to be careful, I think, across the board, like in assigning blame, you know. It's not very motivating to me to be kind of have a finger shaken at me and told that, you know, I'm the responsible for the causing the second wave of this pandemic. I would fit into that demographic.

I think I've tried to be very responsible and as have a lot of the people that are around my age group and younger have also tried to be extremely, extremely responsible and are modeling very responsible behavior. And I think it's discouraging if you just lump everybody into one kind of category and say, oh, because the one guy in Victoria was kind of a, was kind of a moron and had a giant party. and then, you know, they caught him on the news and, you know, made a big deal out of it. That this must be all 20 to 39-year-olds must all be the same as him, right? That is one thing I wanted to ask you about because you do get to see a lot of stories written in media and news that might not feel like the truth. And I think that that is something that is coming out more and more is that it's not that they're being dishonest or unethical. It's just that they've got a slant to their story. as a politician, you obviously interact with that at certain points where a story is written

in a certain way or maybe about a colleague. What is that like to see? Because I think that people are starting to wake up to the reality that this type of dialogue is way more useful in understanding complex problems than a very short news piece that hits bullet points that might have an ulterior motive. What has that been like? You're never going to hear me say, you know, fake news and that kind of thing because I think that is the, overused, horrible cliché that's out there right now. I think I got nothing but respect for professional journalism and the role of the media is incredibly important,

and it always will be. The role of an objective media that does a research and takes their role seriously in holding us as politicians or organizations accountable, incredibly important. I've never had an experience. in the city of Chilwaukee, or I can almost, you know, I can actually say I've never had an experience as a politician in my time as a politician, where I have gone back and reviewed

a news story or a media piece that I was involved in or got interviewed for, or I felt that the journalist that I spoke to was being biased or inventing things or, you know, nothing but professional and taking their job seriously it's a hard job the people that work in it it's so it's uh i imagine that in some days it's probably it's probably pretty discouraging when uh they feel like they're being uh under attack all the time and discredited and and and then people who have no um background in in journalism or research write a write an opinion piece not based on fact and put it on Facebook and it gets, you know, it gets more attention paid to it than the hardworking journalists that work hard to bring objective news media to us.

You know, I think in terms of this, like long-form interview, like I think any most, or I mean, not any, but most journalists, if they had the time and space and money, you know, to conduct kind of long form, in-depth, kind of get to know each other kind of interviews like this. I'm not sure that any of them would turn down that opportunity. I think just with the constraints and the funding constraints and advertising, budget, shrinking, and all the realities that media is facing the pressures that they're under,

they don't get this kind of same opportunity, but they probably sure love to have it, you know? so yeah i try and i mean that's an important um important piece of being a counselor too is maintaining those relationships with with uh with uh with uh the media and with uh journalists both locally and and and and um on a provincial level but yeah i won't you won't hear me say a bad thing about them i i get along real well with the uh with uh the news media in general i've never i've always felt that i've been given a fair shake and even when they've been critical i've i've uh i've probably deserved it. Yeah. Well, that's a very good outlook. And as I've said, very well-rounded

and more holistic viewpoint. The other port that I wanted to touch on was just what's going on with the opioid epidemic right now. And all of that's kind of coming out via the pandemic and all of this. And so what has, what have you seen and what are some of the developments that you're seeing occurring in terms of addressing it? Yeah, I think there was some big funding announcements actually this week in terms of the ministry around providing some additional supports for people who are struggling with opioid addiction. Incredibly tragic.

And, you know, again, Chilliwack is not immune from being a part of this epidemic. And there are many people in Chiluac who, who are kind of in throes of opioid addiction, and who would find themselves, you know, without perhaps the access to the services that they need to get help. And I think, you know, while we have been, you know, slowly kind of building more services in concert with the provincial government, I think it will never be fast enough to kind of address this issue.

And I think there's an incredibly interesting thing that's happening both down in the States and up here in Canada where some of the drug manufacturers and some of the people who are involved in the overprescription of opioids and some of the root causes of this epidemic are being called to account and being held responsible because, yeah, it's destroying. It's destroying people's lives. I've lost, you know, both my, Sheila and I have lost friends

to opioid overdoses. I think perhaps with the COVID, just with the COVID-19 pandemic, is that, you know, people had to shift gears or the government had to shift some gears and pull some different levers to respond. Hopefully there's some refocus and some time to refocus on what we need to do to make sure that we don't lose any more people because those are those are family members, brothers, sisters, moms, dads, uncles, aunts, you know. And I think the more we, you know, if we, you know, if we, If we don't keep talking about it, and then there's a big risk that, you know, those people that have passed away, they do so, you know, they do so in vain, and we don't, and we don't make changes, you know, it's very, it's, it would be very discouraging, so.

Yeah, that's the old saying, right, is where you die twice, the once when you actually die, and the second is when you're, never mentioned again. Yeah, somebody stopped seeing your name, yeah. Yeah. And the other part I wanted to ask about, because it is about Chilliwack, is we obviously have a culture that other people see, and I've heard of our culture. And I just wanted your perspective on it because I'm not a huge fan of how people kind of disparaged that we're a Bible Belt community, and they kind of say it in a derogatory term. And that bothers me, because as I've grown to understand religious values more, I think that they do offer something, and I do think that people are legitimately religious for very good reasons, and they carry their faith admirably, and they contribute to the community. But we are advertised and talked about as a right-wing extreme community that is a Bible Belt.

And so I just wanted your thoughts on it, because it is something that frustrates me, and I'm sure that you've run into it when you go to other communities. Is that something that's probably said about us? Have you ever had that rise? Yeah, I mean, it's definitely something I've heard. And, you know, I just think it's disrespectful. It's disrespectful to people of faith. It's disrespectful to people who may not choose to belong to any faith group. And I think, you know, we're stronger because of our differences.

That's a huge cliche, but we're a strong community because we have people of multiple different faiths and people of no faith or people who are maybe questioning and I think our ability to accept each other not because we're all alike but because we're different and we offer different things is very important and what makes a good diverse strong community and and you know I would never use that term disparaging

you know in a disparaging way I know that churches and faith groups have played an extremely important role in the city of Chilliwack and continue to play an extremely important role in the city of Chilliwack just as I know that there are groups that are not

faith-based that play that playing extremely important roles in the city of of Chilliwack and challenging the city of Chilliwack and making sure that we're a place that supports diversity and equality and and the only part when um i you know tend to stick my nose into it is when uh any one of those groups starts to to trample down on the rights of of another for their uh for their ability to again realize that high quality of life and and um and and and freedom in the city of Chilliwack.

And so I tend to not get involved until people aren't respecting the human rights and diversity of others. And then that's when I usually say something. That's awesome. What are the issues right now that you're most concerned with through all of your roles? Things that jump out at you as important that maybe aren't being addressed or they just need more work? Probably the society building piece, right? It's easy to tear each other down.

It's easy to, you know, to believe the hype on social media that we're, you know, that everything is horrible all the time and that, you know, the people are horrible and that crime is rampant and that things were way better back in the good old days. And I just think that, you know, it's easy to give into that kind of disparity if you let yourself, what is a little bit harder and a little bit more challenging and requires a little bit more time and effort is just going to your neighbor's house

and knocking into the door and introducing yourself and doing that across your neighborhood and then doing that to people that you meet on the street. And I don't believe that you have to be, that you don't have to be real with it. Like you have to accept that we have, there are definitely challenges in the city of Chilawak and that we have to look at them in a real way and to address them in a real way. But, you know, I think that, you know, far too often lately I've seen just a lot of just discouraging kind of language around the city. And I think it doesn't help for all the many, many, many people who put in a lot of time

and effort to try and make the city a good place, right? And I think this town, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. I've traveled all over the world in different countries. And I'm always excited when I get to come home because I love this place, right? So it's my home and it will be for the rest of my life. Awesome. That's one area that I want to jump on to is because I am incredibly proud to be from this community. I plan to die and be buried here in this community.

That's the kind of energy that I have for this community. because I was raised here. I've experienced that toughest of times and I've experienced the best of times here. And so I'm just curious, you get to interact with a lot of people from here that I've never met. And so out of curiosity,

have you ever had an interaction where the person has done something above and beyond? We had the murals go up. Is there anything where people kind of did something amazing and it maybe didn't get the publicity, it didn't get the story, it didn't have that energy behind it, but you got to see it because you're in your position

and you get to see the good in our community that maybe doesn't get front page news, not because it wasn't good, just because it didn't get the PR. There's so many examples of that. I hesitate to almost just pick, just to pick one or two. But the thing I love about this place is that there's just a lot of people who quietly go about their business trying to, again, make the place a better one day at a time and, you know, they're making those choices and those decisions throughout their day. They're looking for opportunities to help, to build

community, to help out, to support those that may be in need or need some help, need a hand up. We have, you know, I think we're one of the highest per capita cities in terms of, participation in community groups and charitable groups and charitable organizations and charitable giving, volunteerism is quite high in the city of Chilliwack. So those are those are like kind of the key metrics in terms of community resiliency and, you know, there are it's um it's it's i wish that um we had the opportunity to to just constantly single out the people that uh who do that who do that good work i think some of them don't want to be singled out too they're quite happy to go about their business yeah the only one i can think of at this moment is

amber price who was just going through all of downtown and like painting and cleaning and scrubbing and doing all of that work and it was just like on property that isn't hers that she doesn't have to claim and it's that kind of energy that makes me want to continue and it's so motivational to know that people are doing it nobody's paying them to nobody's making them it's that community pride yeah that i really like about chiloac and i was just curious to see if you've get to see any that we don't get to see yeah yeah i know i mean definitely amber's uh amher is just uh she's a whirlwind of uh energy so she she she she does lots of good, great community stuff.

You mentioned the Chamber of Commerce. There's a whole team of people that work at the Chamber who have been working hard even throughout the pandemic and stuff to support small businesses. There's been a whole bunch of groups that have kind of popped up, both online and other places that have been focused on, you know, identifying if neighbors were in need

and if people needed groceries and people needed supplies and that kind of thing, they're supporting, providing that kind of stuff. There is some amazing people that work at all many different nonprofits in the city of Cholawak. I just interacted with some who are working in the youth services side at Cholac Community Services, and they're doing amazing work. I think the recent Naomi's Ride for Ran is happening,

or was, I think maybe they postponed because of the smoke, but, you know, there's just community groups and people who are out there supporting all the work that they do, and that's incredibly important. Yeah, there's just a lot. Like, when you just sit and think about it and reflect on it from time to time, and I think that's really important to do,

is there are a lot of people doing a lot of things, and it's discouraging to think that, you know, how hard they've worked, And then you see one or two people go online and write a really uneducated, disparaging comment about how horrible this place is. And it really discredits and discounts all the hard work that people are doing behind the scenes. Yeah, that is one thing that happens a lot with small businesses where you can have a complete misunderstanding. And then all of a sudden you have this bad review that suggests you're not good at what you're doing. And that does impact their business and ability to continue because it impacts the algorithm and everything.

So what are some of your favorite small businesses in the last interview on around Chilliwack? You mentioned chilies. Okay. And... We must really like chilies, yeah. They're not paying me to say that either. What is your favorite thing to get there? Chili's?

Yeah. I normally just tell Tina that it's Jason phoning and then she makes the, it's a chicken, it's like a ginger chicken star fry. Yeah. And so, yeah, we actually got chilies for our wedding. So we had a whole bunch of it. We actually got Shandar for our wedding and chilies for our wedding. So our wedding buffet was actually just a combination of all our favorite foods in restaurants that we had Chilwax. Well, if you can't have any sway with Shandar, let me know because I've been trying to get them onto the podcast.

Oh, really? You try to get, who, Gord? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, Gord, if you're listening, come on the podcast. It's great. It's been a great experience.

That's awesome. And what other places do you enjoy, do you? I try and make a point of shopping at as many small mediums, as businesses that possibly can, locally owned, independent. If you're in that category, chances are being through your doors. So there's lots. And, you know, for restaurants, I mean, one of the great byproducts of being a city counselor is not on the taxpayers' dime, but,

on my own dime, I often find myself at a restaurant eating lunch with people. So I get to eat at all the restaurants in Chilwack. And they're having a tough time now. So especially now, go out and take the opportunity to find out who's doing curbside pickup or takeout and stuff like that. I know we've done quite a few. Yeah. Quite a few of those.

I enjoy Babas. Have you been there? Oh, yeah. Yeah. What have you tried from there? I like their chicken sandwich, whatever it is. It's made on garlic bread, which is just. Yeah, so it's not an Italian chicken club, no.

That's not the one I get. Mine's like the chicken garlic bread sandwich or something like that. All the good healthy stuff. Yeah. Yeah, I was talking the one place that, you know what, I haven't been to in a long time, was multi-pack, the multi-pack deli, which is multi-pack foods, which is just behind, just kind of off of, I think it's off Victoria, kind of behind where the Paramount used to be. That is one of the most popular places in all of Chilliwack, and I've never been there.

Great deli sandwiches, so it's, yeah, it's fantastic, and I haven't, I haven't been there for quite a long time. You know, the person to ask about food is probably Matt Hawkins, because he's going around to all the around Chilawak stuff. He's like, I think that's his full-time job is just eating at restaurants. That sounds like a pretty good job. Maybe you could make a round Chilawak bigger. than me, a collaboration podcast where you guys just go eat food. Hugo's, Hugo's restaurant, have you been there? I have, we didn't sit in, but I did go pick up some food, and it was absolutely phenomenal.

I had one of their burritos and some of their nachos, and it was just phenomenal. Yeah, I generally, when a new place opens up, I try and go and check it out. Have you been to the 9th end cafe? No, no. Okay. Where's that? Isn't that the one in the curling center? Oh, is it?

Okay, maybe, yeah. It's the breakfast place. you, one of your favorite places is river's edge. Oh yeah, I like rivers. Yeah, rivers. I've never been. Okay, that's out in Yarrow. Yeah, that's great.

James and his family, they do a wonderful job. Okay. Yeah. It's nice and close to my house, so I can just walk there. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's fantastic. Got a great patio.

And then there's all sorts of, like, small business. Even just throughout the pandemic, I, it's been nice to shop at some of the smaller stores and stuff like that, whether it was. I was at, you know, Fortin's home hardware is just, I mean, they're obviously locally owned and whenever you, it was close, nice and close to me where I needed to get some stuff. And yeah, I think, you know, the book man is always a good place to go and go downtown or you can go to the shoe store, go to Gordraise, you could go to all sorts of places downtown. Yeah, absolutely.

And so the only other thing that I wanted to move a little bit more into, is you're a father now and that happened pretty recently and a lot has changed and there's been a lot going on but we haven't had an opportunity to hear from you and what that experience has been like of moving you've been taking care of the city in my opinion and now you have Cedar which is an amazing name and I'd like to find out how you came up with that name but what has that been like yeah it's been amazing it's it's it's wonderful he's a really happy really happy go lucky baby and he uh he's uh yeah he's up until now not from wood he's being really you know he hasn't been too hard on his parents so he's a good sleeper and uh just yeah

he's a joy to be around so it's great and how did you come up with the name um Sheila and I had a couple of names that we were thinking about and um we liked uh we We liked something that was going to be kind of reflective of our love of nature and the outdoors and reflective of the place where we live. And, you know, there was kind of personal connections with family memories and that kind of thing. And so it seemed to seem to check all those boxes. And it was good. Some people I think, I don't know because this is our only child that I think there's a lot of stress goes into finding the right name. But, you know, when we kind of first met him and looked at him and, you know, I think he was only a couple hours old and we said, no, I think he's a cedar.

Wow, that's got to be such a change, though, right? from just having a normal day-to-day life to moving into that position during a pandemic. What was that transition like of also having to process how you're going to get to the grocery store and having a child that was so vulnerable during all of that? Yeah, I mean, that was very easy. We just stayed. I mean, we didn't obviously bring him. We still don't bring him anywhere into grocery stores.

We're really out to too many places unless we can kind of ensure that, you know, Again, going back to where our comfort level is, and we, yeah, I mean, the silver lining on it was that we both got to spend quite a bit of time at home and just really get to know him and get to know what it was like to be a parent and we're still learning, you know, every day what it's like to be parents. and yeah, I mean, it's a lot of troubleshooting, yeah, like, is the baby tired? Is he hungry? Is he just angry? Who knows? Yeah. Fortunately, he's not just ever just angry. He's usually just hungry. That's good. No, it's great. It's a joy.

You know, parenthood was something that we weren't 100% sure that we were ever going to, that we were going to be parents. And so when he came along, it was a real great thing. That's awesome. What is the future hold for you now? Because it does sound like you're gearing up in that direction more than gearing up for another run or anything like that. Yeah, well, you know, all these things always keep my cards pretty close to my chest on, whether I'm going to run again.

I said this before, people, like, you'll know that when I'm done because I won't be having any fun anymore and stuff like that but I also like it's my it's my belief that if I can honestly if I can get myself elected in in Chilliwack I think most people can get themselves elected in the city of Chilliwack so I I think you know you I firmly believe that there are many many many many other other people out there who would do just as good of a job or better than then I would and so I don't ever want to I don't ever want to just uh discourage other people from participating by being the guy that just overstays is welcome. I believe that politicians have a best before date and that they should be cognizant of that.

So if I feel like I still have some more to give and can be of value to the city and the capacity of city councilor, then I'll probably take another shot at it. If I feel like my time and energy could be used in another venue or perhaps another order of government, then I might take a shot at that. Well, here's a trap question for you. Hey, I thought we agreed not to do any of this. I promise, I promise you, it will not feel like that when I ask it. So in your last interview, public safety was a big concern of yours and one of the motivations for you to run again.

So my question, as broad as it can be, is how do you feel about public safety now? Do you feel like it's met or exceeded your expectations when you decided to run again? Do you feel like we've addressed that issue, or do you feel like we still have a lot of work to do? No, I definitely feel like there's still a lot of work to do. There's actually a survey that's out right now about public perceptions around safety in the city of Chilawak. But there's some really, really interesting work that's being done right now on an integrated community safety task force that's led by Bud Mercer. This is one of those examples of where I feel like I can kind of take my foot off the gas pedal a little bit on this issue

because somebody like Bud, who has a whole host and a wealth of experience and professional experience at the highest levels, can can very easily step in and take on that that role and do so in a in probably a far more successful way than I can I think it's also recognizing the strengths of you of of the team and I think in this case um for sure counselor Mercer is uh is a person who I think can handle that public safety portfolio uh in a really uh in a really positive way and I've You know, I've still stayed involved in the public safety committee. I know you interviewed Anuk, and she was a huge part of the committee when I was involved in it.

And I still am. But I feel like it's evolving into, you know, kind of creating a public safety mindset and a crime prevention mindset and a community safety mindset in the city of Chilawak. and that involves, you know, not just RCMP, but it involves making sure that, you know, we're doing a lot of advocacy work with the province around the justice system and the correctional system and around alternatives to incarceration, around restorative justice, around a whole bunch of, a whole host of different important public safety type measures. And so I think we're starting to have the ability, the city to shift a little bit away from being reactive like like we were having to be when I was

the when I was the chair and we're adding more police officers and kind of restructuring you know kind of reacting to some some crime rates that were starting to creep up and I think we're starting to see those trends level off and and actually in a lot of cases go down which is positive and we're able to take a little bit of a breath and now focus on prevention measures. So I don't think that we'll ever see Chilliwack municipal policing just because I do know Mercer's background and I completely understand where he's coming from. Do you foresee more police officers coming on in the future just because of the growth of population? Yeah, I think it's important that you maintain a healthy police force. And I mean, there are ratios that are out there that are indicators of the police to population rate.

And so with an increase in population, you increase not just your police force, but you have to increase services across the board to help accommodate that and the services that are going to be required by the residents as the city grows. So I think, but I think it's also understanding that, you know, in some cases, some of the challenges that we're experiencing in the city, Chilwick are not just, that may be related to criminal activity and crime. the root causes are more to do with health care and lack of mental health and health care resources and that perhaps an RC&P first-line, front-line response by an RCNP officer is not going to be the most successful response to that.

So it's also trying to advocate for additional outreach workers and mental health supports, mental health workers, nurses, doctors, that kind of stuff. Okay, so you have been a... And your partner is right, is actually doing some work around identifying some of those resources in different communities. So I was really impressed by looking at some of that stuff. And I think it's really neat kind of like a one-page quick reference guide to supports that are out there. So I would highly encourage her to keep working on those because people are definitely paying attention.

I think it's very valuable resource. Well, I'm sure she would be humbled by that compliment. One of the things that she had noticed was that all of these resources exist, but they are on the ugliest piece of paper listed in point form, very small writing with phone numbers, and most of them are out of date. And that is not encouraging to someone who's looking for resources. They want to be able to be scrolling. Like, people need it when they're scrolling Facebook. They don't need it when they're actually searching for it. And so that was one of her mindsets when she went into trying to create a resource guide of local resources was just to say, hey, people are going to find it on Facebook.

If I post it, but they're not going to find it if I create a document and put it on a website that nobody's ever going to go to. She wanted to create it. So it was designed for Facebook. So you can be scrolling and it does look visually appealing and put all those pieces together for people to use social media in a more positive light. Yeah, well, there you go. There's somebody that's doing some great community work that deserves to be recognized. Well, that is very positive. So regardless of whether or not you run again and regardless of your political future, you've been a musician.

you have been a politician, you have run and been the director of Myriad, and you've been involved in the Chamber of Commerce, you have this amazing portfolio of work you've done. And so that's where I'm curious as to what your future kind of holds, regardless of whether or not you run again. What are some interests that people might not realize that you're involved in or you enjoy a business you hope to start one day

or any of those types of things that are just normal Jason Lum things? well normal jason love things i first of all thank you for that's very flattering that you think it's amazing i uh i i think um i think a lot of it is uh probably more the better uh better description is is uh mediocre i don't think it's it's that amazing that there's i do uh i do a lot of things i would say at a mediocre level you know i wouldn't say that would say amazing that That's not what I would use. That's what the humility comes in. No, I'm flattered.

I, um, yeah, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I love, I love, I love, I love, I love the work that I get to do. I love the fact that I get to interact with a lot of different people and that, um, you know, one of my, uh, I would say, you know, one of the, one of the, one of the challenges that I have is, uh, is that I have a, is that I have a pretty, uh, pretty, um, you know, pretty short attention span sometimes so i i need to be uh challenged in different things and to kind of hold my hold my attention and so it's it's it's very nice that uh you know in this role you get to do a lot of different things no day is ever the same and um but then i also you know as uh as my work kind of evolves um uh professionally um i've spent 20 years working in the IT industry and

I'm looking for, you know, perhaps a little bit of change there to keep it fresh. One of the questions I think you were, you had provided was, you know, what would you say to somebody who's been working in a job that they kind of, you know, they feel, they don't feel too excited about it anymore and they want to try something different. And that's the thing, you know, try, try something different, you know. I think, you know, you're going to change careers, you know, multiple times through, throughout your uh throughout your life and uh and uh i think you know life is is too short to uh stay doing something that you uh that you can't stand and i know you know i don't want that

to sound um i know that for for some people it's not just a simple easy choice to make you you have to keep the the bills paid and stuff like that but i also think that there are there are lots of opportunities that are out there if you go if you go looking for them and you know try and create your own right like do do do something like this right like you have to have something that that drives you creatively and that that that you're passionate about and I think you know we live in a time in the world where these kind of opportunities whether it's technology that's helping advance them these kind of opportunities that are opening up before you'd have to be in like you know multi multi thousand dollar uh uh studio space

to be able to do this now. You've got the luxury of being able to kind of build this stuff in your own place and kind of create your own stuff, you know, and put it out to the world and see how people react. And I think it's really important. Yeah, I probably will go back to playing music and I'll probably just really enjoy being Cedar's dad for the the for the next immediate future, I think. Well, not enjoy for the immediate future, but just for the immediate future, that's what I'm definitely focused on. Well, I have to say that when I was trying to save the Paramount with my friend Jake, your support meant everything. And even having you respond through email or through Facebook Messenger, those things spoke volumes to me. And

they were one of the cornerstones. And I'm hoping to talk about that now, which is how much that that means to someone when I was in high school, most of my professors were writing me off. I guess they're not teachers. Most of my teachers were writing me off and not thinking that I was going to go off and do anything like this. Most of my teachers had a pretty negative outlook on what my future looked like, and maybe I did too. And so being able to reach out to your city councilor and say, hey, can we save this building or what can we do?

And having that person respond and treat you like a human being and not question whether or not I'm capable or smart or none of those emails came across. And so that is the kind of impact you had on me because you were and still are one of the role models for our community. You've done so much to build this up. You've been honest. You've led with integrity. And I just need you to recognize how much that that meant to me. And one of the reasons that this podcast exists is because it reflects exactly what I went through during that period of time.

And those experiences were shaping my character. And you were involved in that. and your vote made all the difference because it did make me and Jake feel heard that somebody else, if it had been unanimous, it would have been very discouraging and there wouldn't have been a lot of hope. So that one vote made a lot of difference. I really appreciate that. It's very kind of you to say, you know, I think when I was, you know, receiving correspondence, whether it was on that issue or on other issues, you know, I try my my level best to kind of respond to people and I even even if I disagree with with them they've

taken the time out of their day to to write to me or ask me a question and and so I think that deserves a it deserves a response I think it's incredibly important for young people to feel heard by their not just feel heard by their politicians but to be heard and to be acted to have their concerns acted upon by their politicians, regardless if they vote, it's that feeling of disenfranchisement or the feeling of discouragement. If they don't get, if they aren't heard by people who are in positions of responsibility, that tends to shape some of their thinking moving forward. So if we never, if we just ignore, you know, young people who've taken a time out of the day to write about something they're passionate about,

how would I ever expect you to be interested in voting or becoming, you know, taking part in local government when you were, you know, after you're out of high school and you're able to vote. So I think it's really important, but I don't think it's extraordinary. I think it's our duty, you know, to do that. But I feel incredibly honored by you, saying, acknowledging that it was, it was one of the things, which I'm sure there were many in your life that kind of got you to the place where you're going in the trajectory that you're on right now. And it's super impressive, man. I'm really, it's awesome. I'm really proud of you.

It's really neat. I'm happy to be on here. It's a great opportunity for me to get to, for other people too, to get to know a little bit more about me than like you said and the small snippets and stuff that they would hear. Well, it is incredibly honoring. I did not expect to have you on, as I've said, for like another year or two where the podcast has 120 episodes or something like that before I was in my mind expecting to have someone of your caliber and of your respect within the community on a platform of this. of this size currently. So it's an incredible honor to have you on. And thank you so much for taking the time. Yeah. Anytime. And happy to, happy to be here. And I hope you continue on with it. And I hope I hope people take the time to really go through and listen to some of the episodes and some of the ones that you're, some of the ones that are coming up to because you've got, you've been able to get

some really, really good high quality guests and do some really, really high quality interviews. I'm really, really impressed. Well, I am honored to have your approves. and we just did two and a half hours. Awesome. It didn't even feel like it. So there you go. I'm going to be able to be.