Nuanced. - 134. Ariel Helwani - Sports Journalism, Combat Sports and the UFC

Episode Date: November 21, 2023

Ariel Helwani, the premier voice in sports journalism, along with Aaron, delves into insights from his career, the art of storytelling, and the motivating journeys of prominent fighters like Corey Sandhagen, Israel Adesanya, Alexander 'The Great' Volkanovski, and Conor McGregor, all while emphasizing the importance of trust, resilience, and emotional connection in the world of sports reporting.Ariel Helwani is a prominent Canadian sports journalist celebrated for his extensive coverage of the UFC and the broader world of MMA. Born in Montreal, Ariel has been at the forefront of MMA journalism, hosting shows like "The MMA Hour with Ariel Helwani." His insightful interviews and in-depth analyses have solidified his reputation as a leading voice in the sport.Send us a textThe "What's Going On?" PodcastThink casual, relatable discussions like you'd overhear in a barbershop....Listen on: Apple Podcasts   SpotifySupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

Welcome back to another episode of The Bigger Than Me podcast. Here is your host, Aaron P. In a million years, I did not believe that I would ever have the opportunity to sit down with a man who's so thoughtful. He's been an inspiration to this podcast. I listen to his interview, study it, try and learn from it, try and improve from it, and figure out how I can become a better interviewer. My guest today is the great Ariel Helwani. I have the pleasure of sitting down with the man. man, the myth, the legend, an individual I find inspiring on a weekly basis, Ariel Hawani,

the king, the master of journalism within MMA, and all combat sports. Ariel, thank you so much for being willing to do this. Would you mind introducing yourself? I know. It's great to be here. I really appreciate it. Thank you for the kind words, Aaron. I know we've gone back and forth for quite some time, and I'm glad you were able to fit me in your very busy schedule. So I appreciate it and I was just kind of testing you because I just sort of sprung this, this, this availability on you and you were ready to go like the pro that you are. So thank you very much. It's great to be here. I always have time for the goat and always willing to make sure you put me on my toes because I want to make sure that I get my questions right. But you're a person who just goes into interviews, ready to go.

It's all in your mind already. So you're putting my skills to the test and I can't thank you enough for that. First, I'd like to thank you because throughout the pandemic, that's when I discovered DC and Halwani, the show, and it was a very dark time and a lot of uncertainty, and your show got me through it and made me an absolute fan, obsessed with MMA as a consequence of the work you in D.C. did. So I first want to thank you for that. Wow. Thank you very much. So you weren't a fan before that? I didn't watch a lot of UFC. I'd seen the Connor McGregor, Floyd Mayweather fight, but at a distance and then started following. and have been every day ever since. That's wild. And how did you find the show if it wasn't on your,

if MMA wasn't on your radar, how did you stumble upon the show? I would always watch the countdowns. So I started to get introduced to it and watch the countdowns at the gym. And then I clicked on a video and started watching it. And when you started doing those, like what day it is, those were just the funniest, like lighthearted, fun, take a breath.

I was watching the news, trying to figure out what we're supposed to be doing. And then to be able to tune into that, and kind of reduced those nerves, just meant everything. Well, I appreciate that. Yeah, that was a really great time, something that was kind of born out of darkness. And, yeah, I'm so thankful. I wish that we could have done it longer.

Who knows maybe in the future we can reunite. But I receive many messages from people like that, like what you just said to me. And it's kind of mind-blowing because to me it's like the show was just once a week for an hour, but you kind of forget that there was no new programming. was no new content. It was very dark and depressing at the time. So the best, the best compliment that I think I could receive, anyone who creates content, hosts shows, whatever, is like that you're an escape for people, right? That you can, you know, you can be there for someone when they need something to think about, something else to think about, just let their mind go elsewhere.

That's the best because there's so much stuff out there. There's so many options. And so that people choose you and that they're interested in listening to you as opposed to everything else and that you're that escape for them, that to me is the best thing that I can receive. So thank you very much for that. I really appreciate it. The other piece to that, though, is I find that you're so thoughtful about how you develop storylines and how you add those tidbits in. They keep it fresh, keep it exciting for people. When did that become something that you knew you were something you cared about, something you were interested in, is always having like a new facet, a new approach to the show and keeping people excited and engaged?

I think, and thank you for that, I think that the reason why I do that or I feel strongly about that is, is because I consume a lot of content, right? I listen to a lot of shows, I watch a lot of shows, and I know what connects with me, and I always feel, I'm a very passionate person, I'm a very emotional person, I'm a very sensitive person, and I always feel like if I'm not emotionally invested, if my heart doesn't, and feel something when I'm watching this, when I'm listening to this, then it's just, it's just noise, it's just crap. And so I try to get people to feel about my content the way I want to feel about other people's content. I'm not very good at a lot of things. I'm not good at, you know,

finances. I'm not good at building things. I'm not good at, you know, a lot of stuff that every, you know, alpha male out there prides himself on being good at. But the one thing I do, think that I'm good at is creating content, hosting shows, producing shows that gets people to care. And it's not just like the surface level stuff, gets people to care on an emotional level. And I think that's very, very important. That's why on my shows, I don't focus too much on the X's and O's, so to speak, because I'm not an analyst. I'm not a fighter. I've never done it before and it would be disingenuous of me to do that. But if I can shed a light on who these people are, you know, what they're all about, what they've been through, what their motivations are,

things like that, like they're people, their backstories, I think that I'm doing my job as best as possible. And that's ultimately the stuff. Like at this point, there's so many fights and they're, you know, they're kind of blending into each other, but it's the characters, it's the personalities. That's the stuff that keeps me coming back for more. So that's how I try to, you know, cover the sports that I cover. Fantastic. And you can see following your career and the work you're doing, the attention to detail you have when you're heading into an event.

How do I want people to feel? How do I want them to connect with this? And you can see that that's unique. Even watching recent shows that you've done, the KSI, Tommy Fury fight, like, I can see what you're doing that's unique from the other analysts to make people feel and connect and get excited. It's not just another event. You're making it feel unique.

I'm wondering if you can take us to the beginning, your origin story. When did journalism become something where you said, this is the path for me? Well, I was always a huge sports fan, loved sports, and I always loved consuming sports content, whether it was magazines back in the day or TV shows. Obviously, podcasts and the internet weren't a big thing. But I do remember when the internet first came to our house in 1997. And I was like, wow, this is unbelievable. You could go to NBA.com and look at NBA videos whenever you want.

This is amazing. But the real turning point for me was I was in the ninth grade. I was in English class in Montreal, and I was supposed to be reading something, but instead I was reading Sports Illustrated. I'd subscribe to Sports Illustrated since I was a little kid because I loved sports. And in particular, American sports. So, like, when my family would go on a trip to New York or Boston, I would watch ESPN on loop. I would watch SportsCenter on loop because I was like, wow.

I always loved the NBA and the NFL, and those sports weren't really covered as much in Canada on TSN. SportsNet came afterwards. They focused a lot on hockey, and I didn't love hockey as much. Anyway, I was reading this Sports Illustrated, and they were breaking down the best schools, in America for X, Y, and Z, for all different things. And there was a little blurb that stated that Syracuse University was the best school in America for sports broadcasting. And I remember thinking to myself, like, wow, you could go to school to be a sports broadcaster

to learn sports journalism. That's unbelievable. And they had a list of some of the famous alumni, guys like Bob Costas and Marv Albert, who are two guys that I really looked up to. And I remember like a light going off of my head. I need to go to this place. This place sounds amazing. And so that was ninth grade. And then I, you know, I had a few more years of school. And by the time I ended up going to Syracuse. And that's kind of where it started for me. But what was interesting was when I got to Syracuse,

for the first time of my life, all the kids at the school all had the same dream that I did. You know, the kids in my program at Newhouse. When I was growing up in Montreal, and no one really wanted to be a sports journalist or a sports broadcaster. And so for the And I've always been a bit of a lone wolf. I like to march to the beat of my own drum and be different than everyone. And so when I got to Syracuse, everyone wanted to be the next basketball, baseball, football, broadcaster, journalist. And so that's when I really decided that I would go down the combat route because I loved combat sports. And no one was really, you know, talking about it there.

What makes a great journalist from your perspective? A great journalist is someone who listens. who is well-researched, who is empathetic, who, you know, obviously knows about the subject and is coming, you know, prepared, and like I said, is well-researched, but they listen, and they don't think they know everything. So I hate when someone is doing an interview, and they're almost like trying to flex that they know about the subject, as opposed to just, you know, coming with your research, but then you come with a clean slate in your mind, and then you ask questions, and you're

very inquisitive. That's another big thing. but as far as like interviewing is concerned to me like you have to listen listen is number one a big pet peeve of mine is when someone comes with a sheet of questions and they're just like rifling off questions and they're not listening to the answers they're just waiting for that interview subject to stop speaking and then they can chime in with their next question that's very bad so you have to be inquisitive you have to listen you have to ask proper follow-ups you have to be well researched and and you have to you know you can't cut corners now so like you talk about journalism

you know there's been plenty of times where someone has told me like hey i got a scoop uh x y z is happening and if i was a lazy journalist i would just run with that but then sometimes i'll go and reach out to another source and they would say well actually it's not quite done i would hold off if i were you and then you reach out to another person they tell you more information like i believe when you want to report something or break some news you have to have at least two to three solid sources backing it up. You can't have just one because you can get burned. And if you don't, if you don't do that, you lose credibility. That's another big thing. And you lose the trust of your audience. These are huge things. If they don't believe what you are saying, what you're

telling them, what you're reporting, then you're not worth anything. I remember learning about a broadcaster named Walter Cronkite back in the day. And his moniker, if you will, was that he was the most trusted man in America. And I just thought that that was incredible. He used to host the CBS Evening News, and he's, you know, one of the all-time great anchors, news anchors in the history of television. And the fact that the whole country trusted this man when he said something they knew was true to me is the greatest compliment. And I was enamored with that. Part of the reason why my second son is named Walter, because I just love that, you know, that, that credibility. that he had and the way people spoke about him and just how strong and, you know, like how

dependable he was. So all those things come to mind when I think of what makes a good journalist. I'm wondering about how you think people develop sources over time from your perspective. Is that just building good rapport with people and then working towards that? What strategies to build that kind of relationship where people have that kind of trust? Because as you're sort of describing, trust seems to go down over and over again. Yet, when you're cultivating sources, building those relationships, they're trusting you with their name, with what they're telling you, and that's a complex relationship to build, and not one that many people have an experience having that type of trust with another person. Yeah, that's a great question because there are some people, you know, I talk to them and they talk to me about other journalists, and what they'll say is what they appreciate about me. And sometimes it's, you know, it's subconscious, like I'm not doing it on purpose. And sometimes you have to just be thoughtful. The main thing that sources want is that they want to be treated like human beings, right? So if I just hit someone up consistently just to get information, just because I'm trying to get something from them, they're not going to want to help you out. But if you remember

to wish someone a happy birthday, if you remember to ask about their family, if you remember to check in, if you remember to call or text without wanting anything at all, that goes a long way. You have to treat people. And it's not like I'm calling and saying happy birthday or checking in because ultimately I want to get something. But it's like the same way you want, you can't look at a source as someone who is just giving you something that you're going to take, take, take, take, take from. You have to look at them in a way, like a colleague or a friend who you're just trying to have this, like, respected relationship with them. And they respect you, you respect them, and it goes both ways.

And they'll know that, you know, you're not just trying to use them. And ultimately, when you get past that, they have to know that they can trust you. And this is what I say to people all the time. And sometimes, you know, they get worried, like, you can't, you know, you can't use my name, and this has to be between us, or if they'll tell you something that's off the record that you can't even touch, and maybe you could touch it two months down the line, but not right now. You have to keep it in the vault. You have, you know, there's conversations that happen all the time.

And what I say to them is, if you ever find out that I have broken your trust, that I have taken this information and told someone else the same thing, like, don't tell anyone but X, Y, and Z. I want you to never talk to me again. I want you to lose my number. I want you to hate me because I'm telling you right now that you can trust me, that I'm going to put this in the vault, that I will never break your trust. I've had moments in my career where the likes of Dana White has looked at me face to face yelling at me saying, who told you? And I would never in a million years tell anyone who told me if they asked me not to tell. And so that goes a long way as well.

People have to be able to trust you and to know that you're not going to go around and talk behind their back and break that trust. Do you think that that develops your character in a deeper way because most people never know anything worth sharing? Like they don't have some sort of information that people would covet and want access to and want to know that that puts an extra onus on you to protect that, to make sure that you're careful in a way that most people never experienced so they don't understand the importance of that role. and the power that trust truly has. Yeah, no, for sure. It's definitely very important, and it's not something that is needed in everyday life, in every walk of life.

But in this particular job, like if you don't have that trust and that credibility and that relationship with the people that you're dealing with, I mean, it's not exactly the same, but to a degree, it's also the same. Like, I ask people to come on my show all the time, and I'm asking them for their time. So I'm taking from them.

Now you could say like, oh, they're having a platform, but like, let's be honest, more and more fighters have their own platforms and they have social media and they have YouTube. They don't have to come on my show, but they do it because I think they know that I will treat them fairly, that they can trust me, that I won't blindside them, that I won't be disrespectful. I won't take up too much of their time. You know, usually the interviews are like 20, 30 minutes unless they're in, you know, studio. And so they know that, like, okay, I'm going to take. care, I maybe will ask, quote unquote, hard questions or the questions that people want the

answers to. It's not going to be like a fluff interview, but it will be, you know, fair and balanced, and then they could go on their way. And so that comes with it as well. That's, that's a different, you know, level of trust, but it's under the sort of same umbrella. And so, yeah, it's, it's something that I'm very, very proud of that I've never broken that trust, that I've never had someone saying, I told you this and you, you backstab me, you know, I'm going, on, I started this, you know, on a professional level since 2006. So it's, you know, we're approaching 2004, which is crazy, 2024, which is crazy to me. Yeah, it's, it's crucial. It's absolutely crucial. And there have been times where I've had big news stories, big scoops, and someone

has pleaded with me for various reasons not to break it. And to me, it's more important to keep those relationships than to get like a moment in the sun and break some story. Absolutely. On another note, I want to understand your journey of being able to break topics down for people, because I think that that's incredibly admirable that you walked us through Israel-A-Sanya's journey over a long period of time and how many fights he's been in and the build-up with Alex Pereira and how that all came about. And I've asked it on your show before, but can you walk us through how you go about preparing for something like that? You walk us from beginning to end on certain key stories that have been going on for a while and break them down. How do you, you prepare for that. Honestly, it's not a lot of preparation, if I'm being honest. That's so crazy. I live and breed this stuff. Now, if you ask me to break down, I don't know, you know, the Golden State Warriors

third championship, like, yeah, okay, I'll have to do some research and remind myself. But, like, when it comes to this stuff, like, if you say right now, like, tell me about Alex Volcanowski in his last three years. Like, I could do that off the top of my head because I have to live and breathe this stuff and I have to talk to him. so it's just you know it's just how you prepare and the stuff that you consume and what you're thinking about um and and i believe that every like in order again going back to being emotionally

invested things need beginning middles and ends they need an arc it's sort of like interviews as well like the interview needs a beginning a middle and an end it needs it can't just be like throwing out random questions here or there like there needs to be some flow and most people's lives have a flow to it as well there's a story there's an art it goes up, it goes down. And so I always feel like in order to get people interested in the storylines, in the fights, in the conflict, in the ups, like you have to present things like that as well. Luckily though, now, and especially now for the first time in the last two years, you know, I have people working on the show with me with Connor in particular, GC, who's very good at

compiling this information and getting it on, you know, like getting it for the show through, you know, social media and whatnot. And it gives me like, you know, visual evidence to tell these stories. So like when we were doing, we did, we did one where we broke down like the James Krause betting situation. He had all these examples or like the Izzy Drickus Duplice feud. And that goes a long way as well. So I'm very, very thankful. And you need people around you that you can trust who can get this information and help you produce like the best segments possible. But also, it comes down to storytelling, to explaining to people. Like, if I was going to a coffee shop and I saw my friend,

and I was like, man, you wouldn't believe the story of Izzy and Drickus and how it culminated. And so how would you tell the story from beginning, middle, to end? And you just kind of try to pretend like you're telling a story to people. That's brilliant. The other piece, selfishly, I'm wondering if you can offer some insights. On the one hand, I have individuals like yourself who are willing to share your time, and you're very busy, you have so many opportunities. And then on the other hand, I'll have individuals who are not very well known, very difficult to book.

I'm wondering if you have advice on those cold intros, inviting people on, advice for creators, looking to say, hey, I'd love to have you on the show. I'd love to talk about A, B, and C, but I don't have 100,000 YouTube followers. I don't have a million subscribers on this. What advice do you have to build that honest rapport with an individual from the outset? Yeah, it's not easy. Like when I did my basketball podcast for Showtime this year, man, it was humbling because here I am like I could get Connor McGregor in studio and I could get Izzy in studio, Max Holloway in studio, no problem. I could call up anyone. And then I go into basketball and like no one was responding or no one wanted to talk to me. And it was very, very humbling. And so it's not easy. Trust me, I get it. But there was once a time where no one in the MMA world knew who I was. And I would go on MySpace and I would send messages. to the likes of George St. Pierre and Chuck Liddell and Tito Ortiz.

And slowly but surely, once I started to build up, you know, a resume, a catalog of content, people started to trust me and, you know, would come on the show. And so you have to kind of like throw out, you know, a lot of bait and cast your net very wide. And maybe you send out 20 messages and maybe two people reply. But that's great. That's 20%. And then you, you know, one thing that was always very important to me was like, okay, I got them for this interview, but then what about the next interview? And so once I have them for this interview, I'm always thinking about the next interview. And so like, that's why I don't want, when I books them on the show, I don't want them on for an hour because I want the next time that I asked them to come on to be interviewed, I don't want to say like, oh, this is going to be forever. You know what I mean? So I want to be concise. I don't want to, you know, be disrespectful.

I have to leave that lasting impression. I want to be thankful. I always reach out afterwards and thank them and all that stuff. And there's like almost like a flow to it now. So like I'll always reach out to people and then I'll thank them afterwards. I'll send them a text. I really appreciate it. And then they feel the gratitude and then they want to do it again.

But like if you're entering a world where no one knows you are, it's not easy. You just have to keep like chipping away, chipping away, reaching. out to as many people as possible. If 10% reach back out, great. Soon it will be 20%. Then you'll start to develop your reputation and it becomes 30%, 40%, and then you're on your way. But you just have to have patience. You have to have strong work ethic. And very important, don't feel sorry for yourself. It's not an indictment on you. It's not an indication that you're not good or not worthy of their time. It could be a myriad of reasons, but you just have to keep going. dust yourself off, don't feel sorry for yourself, and good things will start to happen.

I'm a student of your style of interviewing, and correct me if I'm wrong, but your initial interview oftentimes, I'll use Lupi Godinez as an example. Your initial interview is like the backstory. Her coming from Mexico, moving to Vancouver, that journey, how she got there, the things that her family overcame, and then new interviews are more highlighting what makes that person unique, unique aspects of their personality or who they are, their fighting style, or where they're fighting out of. Am I correct on that? Am I crazy? First of all, there's a few things that you're not crazy about, but yes, you're a thousand percent right. It kind of blows my mind that you even pick up on that. Even you using words like,

correct me if I'm wrong, I use that a lot as well. So, yes, I see a lot of similarities. Even your tone and your demeanor and your approach to the interview is very thoughtful and empathetic, which I appreciate very much, and dare I say, reminds me of myself. So kudos and I'm a big fan. But yes, that's 100%. If I'm introducing a new character to the audience, I want to learn about them. I want us to get emotionally invested in what they've been through, but I don't have to do that interview the next time. So now the next time they come on, it's about like what they've just accomplished and where they're going from here and maybe how life has changed since we first met. there's there's uh there's it's a lot of fun to meet someone for the first time on the show and learn

about their background the trials and tribulations and now you feel like you're you know you've developed a rapport your friends so to speak even though you're not friends but like you it's like you just had like a 30 minute coffee with them um and you hope that the audience feel the same and now they want to watch their next fight and i have no skin in the game i'm not promoting their next fight but now you want to get on that journey with them right and so then when you check in with them again, you're well versed into, you know, what they've accomplished, where they've been, and where they're going. Okay, so this is what you've done to me. I am so emotionally invested in these fighters' journeys, and I find certain people have such inspirational aspects. Like,

Corey Sandhagen's love for true mixed martial arts, like the genuine passion. When you talk to him, I remember exactly, I was in Sukb, B.C., on a vacation with my partner, listened to that interview. I can never remember exactly where I was because I was like, this is so profoundly deep his connection with this sport and he doesn't view it the same way Sean O'Malley is and they have different perspectives and that's okay but his mindset is so traditional and protective over the honor and the relationship with self-improvement and self-development that was admirable then recently you've been talking about Alex Volcanowski and how he's at the top right now for you because he's just he does exactly what he says he's going to do and he gets in there and he

invests himself 100% and when you when he says something you can feel that he really means it like he's not joking around. He's not saying it to just pump up the fight. He truly believes he's going to go in there and take care of business and then go and fight again come January, which is just incredible. So I'm wondering, what do you see inspirational about fighters and what are you able to take from their journeys? Obviously, you have a life. How do you take away from what they're going through and learn from their journeys? Their courage. They possess incredible courage. Imagine devoting three, four months of your life to one singular moment to 15 minutes or 25 minutes. The world is watching you. You're essentially naked out there. You can get embarrassed. You can get

knocked out. You can get injured. Or you can change your fortunes, your life's, you know, your trajectory, your families, future, all that stuff with this one moment. But the immense pressure that they're under have to cut the weight, all that stuff. And that just takes incredible courage. I don't possess that courage. I don't possess that DNA. I can't do that. I can't devote four months to 15 minutes. I would crumble under that pressure. And so, excuse me, that blows me away. It blows me away that they, you know, that they're able to do that. And then go through it and then want to do it again, and then want to do it again, and then get knocked out and then want to do it again. These people are so, like, again, like I said, I'll be honest, there's so many fights,

and they all kind of blend in together, but it's the people, it's the characters. These characters are so fascinating and they're so accessible. You know, you talk to athletes from other sports and they just give you, you know, they give you cliche answers, run-of-the-mill answers. It's very hard to like see into their souls and truly love them and want to back them and want to learn more about them. There's just something about fighters, maybe because they have to promote themselves, maybe because they're just different kind of cats, that you just love them.

And there's some that you love, there's some that you hate, there's something that you want to see succeed, there's some that you want to see not succeed, but that's the fun of it. That's why I've always loved combat sports so much because it's a singular sport and you back your guy or your woman and you want to see them get over the, and when they get over the top, you feel like you've just climbed the mountain, right? Like when Leon Edwards did what he did, there were probably a legion of people that felt like they, the underdog in life, got to the top defied the odds, right? And it's just a beautiful thing.

So it's these, I love how different they all are, right? Like, Corey is a great example. Corey and Sean are great examples. And then you'll have like a guy like Al Jameen. You have a guy like Marab and a guy like Francis is completely different than a guy like Tom Aspinall

who's completely different than a guy like Leon. Yeah, Adasania and Maxx. Like they're just, how could you not be fascinated by these people. They're just absolutely fast. There's no run-of-the-mill, cliche, stock answers. Everyone is more interesting and different. And there are some interviews that are not as good as others. But like, look at Mike Perry. Like, what a character that guy is. Like, where does that guy exist in any other walk of life? And we get to just talk to him all the time. It's a tremendous privilege. Would you say that the depth of how fighters think about things

is increasing? Because obviously, I haven't followed the sport for as long as you have. But when you interview Israel to Sanya, it is incredible to hear how he thinks about things, how he sits with things, his process for going through a loss, how he overcomes it. Like, that person just seems to get deeper. And then we start talking about Alex and all these people have, like, a depth to them that I don't know. Maybe it always existed. What's your thoughts on that? No, I mean, you're 100% right. And there are some fighters who are a little more thoughtful.

Like, Izzy is a very thoughtful guy. So one thing that I love that he does when you ask him a question, he goes, hmm, good question. And then you could tell that he's actually like thinking about it. Eugene Berman, his head coach does that as well. Like you ask him a question, he'll give you like this dramatic pause for 10 seconds and really think about the answer. I love that stuff. I can't get enough. Like that is like drugs to me.

You know, like if I could sit there and talk to people like that and you feel like you're getting something out of them and you feel like you're challenging them, and you feel like you're asking good questions and it's not just running the mill stuff, there's nothing better. And I love asking about like their feelings and their anxieties and their nerves and their doubt. I love that because a lot of fighters have that. They possess that, but then they're able to overcome it. Like when I hear that GSP, you know, would get so nervous that he would throw up before his fights and he would look at himself in the mirror and say like, you're, you're not worthy of this, you're not good enough. What the hell are you doing here? And then he would go out and perform the way in which he did, that blows my mind. That shows that we can accomplish

anything and that you can beat your mind. So it's, yeah, it's all very inspiring. And ultimately, we're talking to fighters who go into a cage for the most part or a ring, fight each other. But these are things that could be applied to everyday life. And you can, you can, you can derive inspiration from the way they live their lives and the discipline that they, you know, they have in their lives. It's all very impressive, if you ask me. I couldn't agree more. One of the other pieces that I find truly admirable about your work

is that you do a tremendous job balancing lighthearted sports and that world with the realities of the world and the challenges we face. And I think we all have a responsibility to stay informed on current events and the issues that we're facing and contribute where appropriate and try and support the world moving in a more positive, safe direction. but we also do need those escapes. And I'm wondering if you could talk about how you go about making sure we find that balance.

Yeah, you know, it's tough. And I try not to use my show as like some sort of soapbox to talk about other things. I recognize that people are coming to me for an escape and, you know, they want to hear about sports. They want to hear about MMA, combat, whatever. There are some times where it feels insensitive or it just feels very unimportant

talking about these other things, so I have to get things off my chest because I'm an emotional guy. But, you know, it's just, it's just a matter of not taking yourself too seriously understanding what your role is in all of this. I understand that I'm not, you know, I'm not, I'm not a, like, I'm not a guy who's on CNN or Fox News or something like that, like reporting. Howard CoSell once said that we're, you know, the people in the, um, that are in the sports newsroom they work in the the toy department of of the newsroom meaning like we get to do the fun stuff um so i try not to take it too seriously and obviously it means a lot to the fighters and the athletes and this is kind of like do or die life or death stuff for them but when it comes to us like

this is this what i get to do and what i get to talk about is everyone's like fun thing in life like there are people who work nine to five jobs monday through friday and they look forward to Saturday night to watch the UFC. That's their escape. That's my job. I sometimes would be like, oh, damn, there's a UFC event. I wanted to go out with my family or something like that. But that's their fun thing. Like, that's their escape. And I have to remember that. And so, yeah, sometimes when, you know, heavy-duty series stuff happens, I would hope that people would understand why I'd want to get some stuff off my chest, but I try not to abuse that and go down that route so often, you know, sometimes on the show, like when I'm asked questions about other

things, I'm very happy to go down different paths. And perhaps in time, the show is going to evolve. I think it is going to evolve to a point where, like, we won't be boxed in by any parameters. But I think I do a pretty good job now of balancing it all and typically staying on track. I know sometimes the fans get mad if I have like a boxer or pro wrestler on. But to me, is all like part of my, you know, crazy combat world in my mind. And I would like to think that it doesn't really matter what these people are doing. If they're interesting people, the audience will be interested in them as well. Yeah. And I also think sports bring us together. And when we have political divides, this is a space where we can start to come back together and

share calm and ground again. My final question, and I appreciate you so much for being willing to take the time to do this interview. That's another thing I do all the time, too. It's a good one. You know, you know. I do that all the time. I want to be mindful of your time. Look at my background just went out. How about that? It's very exciting. It's always changing. You talked about how you're not a fighter, but I find you to be also incredibly courageous. You started a show from nothing, from no subscribers, and I find that to be really admirable.

As someone who's trying to do that myself, I look at your journey and go, wow, he's shown a pathway, a journey where you don't have some big name and you're going into the podcast world, you're bringing all those followers with you. I'm wondering if you can just talk about the resilience you've shown throughout your career, your willingness to get knocked down and get back up because I take a lot away from that journey and I think it's so important that we recognize you for that as well. Well, I appreciate that.

I would not compare it to what the fighters go through, but yeah, obviously there's been a lot of ups and downs and the one thing that I've always tried to remind myself is like you only get one life and if you're going to let other people, you know, define your journey and decide where you're going to go, then you're only doing a disservice to yourself. And so if someone's going to be a roadblock, if someone's going to try to deter you, if someone's going to try to change your trajectory or something like that, you know, who cares? Just dust yourself off, get back up, keep on fighting.

I just, I don't know, I don't know if it's something inside of me. I don't know if it's just a way I'm wired, like I just, I, uh, I've never wanted to let other people decide what was going to be my destiny. And, uh, obviously there's been some twists and turns and things that you don't expect initially and all that stuff. But I just, uh, never felt sorry for myself. Even when like things were really, really bad, don't feel sorry for yourself. It's okay to lick your wounds for a second, but get back out there. And every single time that it seems like something's been thrown my way, a curveball, whatever, I just, I feel. like I almost like I hulk up and I become even more, you know, courageous and I want to even

fight back more. Like it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's like, it's a bizarre thing. And so I enjoy that and, uh, you know, I know that there's some people who try to take advantage of that and, and, and, and, and push you up against the wall and try to, you know, make you doubt yourself and all this stuff, but I, I, I, it comes out to two things, remembering that we only get one life. Um, you never want to be 80 years old. looking back and saying, man, you know, I should have done this, I should have done that, I regret this, I regret that. That's number one. And number two, just don't feel sorry for yourself because ultimately no one feels sorry for you. There's people rooting against you. There's people who

want to see you, you know, falter, rooting for your demise. Who cares? Screw those people. Dust yourself off. Get back out there because for every person that's rooting against you, there's more than likely 10, 20, 30, 100 people who are rooting for you. And it's very important to, you know, to prove those people right and to prove the others wrong. So, yeah, that's just always been my approach. And, you know, life is a funny journey and there's always ups and downs. But if you accept that and you're ready for that, I think that you can, you know, you can conquer anything. Ladies and gentlemen, Ariel Hawani, not just the man in MMA journalism.

He's taking over combat sports. He's taking over sports journalism generally. I can't thank you enough for being willing to do this. So motivational. I need to get to the gym and go work out after an interview like this. Well, I appreciate it very much. Keep up the great work. Great questions.

Great. Research. Great. Demeanor. Great. Everything. And like I said to you, I think one time, you're so positive. See your tweets.

I see the way you interact with people. And it's very, very impressive. And Lord knows we need more people like you. not only in media but in this world so kudos to you my friend for the way in which you live your life and how you conduct yourself it's very impressive especially for such a young man I wish you nothing but the best and great success and it was an honor for me to be on your show well I can't thank you enough go follow him on Twitter follow him on YouTube he is putting out amazing content so motivational and I just I'm so grateful thank you

Thank you.