Nuanced. - 14. David Jimmie: Chief of Squiala First Nation & Community Leader

Episode Date: October 7, 2020

David Jimmie is a father, husband, Chief, community leader, President of both the Sto:lo Nation and Ts'elxweyeqw Tribe. He has worked hard to build relationships between indigenous communities and various levels of government. David Jimmie is the Chief and CEO of Squiala First Nation located in Chilliwack, BC. He is the President of Sto:lo Nation representing 10 Sto:lo communities and is also the President of the Ts’elxweyeqw Tribe representing 7 communities. He is the former co-chair alongside the National Chief for the National Chief’s Committee on Fiscal Relations and is now a board member on the National Joint Advisory Committee on Fiscal Relations. David also owns and operates a DJimmie Construction (DJC) which has built 224 homes and 175 apartment units in Chilliwack, BC and Westbank, BC. DJC is currently building a 330-unit townhome development in Chilliwack. David is a strong believer in living through experience which led him to purchase an around the world ticket in 2008 to embark on a journey that would carry him through 19 countries in 1 year. He is currently exploring new ventures to diversify revenue streams for Squiala and the Ts’elxwyeqw while ensuring rights and title are protected. David is a strong advocate for education and culture and has a Masters Degree in Business Administration from Simon Fraser University and is also a Licensed Residential Builder.FULL VIDEO INTERVIEW: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHH9BI00chQSend us a textSupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

David Jimmy, it's an honor to have you on. Please give us a brief introduction. A. Latteth, good morning. David Jimmy. My traditional name, my Hulmach name is Lenukwiat. Born and raised here in Chilawak. Parents are from, my mom is from England, and my dad is from here. My grandparents on my mother's side are also from Chesterfield, England,

and my grandparents on my father's side are my, grandfather from Squayala and my grandmother from Squaw. Wow. And you have done so much for the community. It's tough to choose a place to start. But I would like to start with just some of your family so we can get a better understanding and start from there. And then maybe have that will help inform the conversation later on. Sure.

I think I actually want to start by just providing a bit of appreciation to my family, to the Jimmy family right now. just going through a bit of a tough time. You know, unfortunately, in communities, we're with large families. We often go through loss and at a time of loss, you really see family come together. And unfortunately, for Squyala and for our Jimmy family, we've lost two family members just over the last two weeks. And I was contemplating whether or not to come on and do this because we are in the middle of one of the losses. But I also felt that it was important because people then can see also what happens within community. People can have an opportunity to see what more is out there in First Nations communities.

Not only that, I think taking the opportunity to raise a little bit of awareness. Sometimes we have individuals in our communities, not only in the First Nations communities that are going through difficult times. and they're finding a really hard, they find it difficult to cope. And some people don't know where to turn. They don't know what is available to them. And so I wanted to also just take a moment to talk about and acknowledge that there are a lot of people out there suffering still.

A lot of our youth facing tough challenges. And we have to be aware, I think as individuals, as leaders, whether or not you're in a leadership position, is just being mindful and aware to recognize the signals and recognize when somebody is struggling and be able to ask them just a simple conversation sometimes will go a long way. So I just wanted to acknowledge my family because, you know, over the last two weeks, I've really seen our family come together and rally in support of the direct family's loss. You know, we come together. We bring meals. We come and just provide that support. We will have

our, those that have the gift of drumming and carry those cultural teachings will come and share songs to help uplift the spirit. So I just, I just wanted to take a moment because it is important. I know in a lot of instances, some people don't have anybody and they go through a process of loss and don't know where to start and don't have the supports. And we see large communities like ours come together and family really sticks together and is there for one another. So I just wanted to to just acknowledge them for everything that they do and also raise that awareness. We have a lot of issues in communities that I think we need to be alive too. And so I just wanted to take that moment. Family-wise, growing up, I was a

was a second youngest in my family, a large family. There were seven boys and two sisters. And, you know, growing up here in Chilliwack, I grew up on the reserve of Squayala, and my parents separated at a young age. So we kind of had a decision where we were going. A few of us went with my mother. And so we bounced around for a while. My mom was, is an extremely resilient woman who had very tough challenges, raising boys and providing for us. And I feel very fortunate that we had her to come and step up. You know, I can remember her working two, three jobs and still putting us in hockey, you know, that many kids and running around and doing all of those things.

So we did bounce around quite a bit. I saw a lot of Chiloac. You know, we lived kind of from house to house for a little while. Um, and then I moved back and forth to my dad's a little bit growing up too, which was a little bit difficult. Um, you know, part of the reason for the separation was, was due to alcohol and, and, uh, with my father. And he just wasn't, um, again, a struggle for him. And, and he later on in life had, you know, dealt with that struggle and, and was sober for a number of years before, uh, he had passed. Um, so I growing up being exposed to that learning from that like that's what you have to do is you have

to take an opportunity to step back and go okay what are the things that shaped you growing up and it's being able to recognize um you know that hard work from my mother that difficult position from my father and and then later um as you're trying to work through things understand why they were the way they were and with my my father you know you just have to to look at the historical impacts of indigenous people right across the country. And you have a pretty good idea of what they were exposed to, the challenges they had, and the lack of parenting. You know, I know residential schools has a lot of, has had a lot of attention over the years,

and it's rightfully so. You know, these children grew up essentially without parents, and then they were trying to figure out how to be parents themselves. you know that that's a little bit about my family and growing up I guess well going to that point what you said earlier about grieving and going through that loss it's really easy to think that that will all just happen and family will come together but that's it's a lot of work to have the small conversations to bring people together and I think that that's something we don't talk enough about is it's the stages of grief are normal but how we can come together and actually

make that something that brings the family together is something that doesn't always happen. Sometimes it tears the family apart. We start fighting over ridiculous things like the will and who gets what, and that can really detract from a whole person's life, 80 years, like a life of somebody, and we can lose that. And I think that that's important to bring to light. And to indigenous people's credit, we do grieve so much more in my view because it is a whole community thing.

When I was working on the resource manual, I would have chief say, like, we're dealing with loss, so we're not going to deal with this right now because the community is grieving. And that's like, that's a way bigger statement because you would never hear like the city of Chilliwack is currently, like it doesn't come across that way. But that can happen in indigenous communities. And those are things that I also don't think are brought up in the media when we're talking about indigenous issues is how we handle important things like grief. And so I think that that is important to talk about because I do think that that is. something where indigenous people really do come together yeah and you know we've every community operates differently and we recognize and have been through it so many times that we understand how difficult it is for the family so we step in and try

to do as much as possible to take any pressures off of the family so you know I unfortunately I've I've had to be a part of coordinate right eulogies more than anybody should, I think, in a short span of, you know, 11 years of being chief, 10 years of being chief. And it's taxing. It's really heavy work. It's emotionally and spiritually draining. And there's the upside of it, knowing that you're there to take that pressure off the family. But people don't understand what's involved, you know, a cultural traditional ceremony is there's a lot of work that has to take place and so we try to step in so that the family does have time just to simply sit back relax and not relax but to sort of

have that time together and not have to worry about the little details of who's doing what what's going to be done how it's going to work you know we we lay it have our process of sitting down with the family to get sort of initial requests and in wishes from the family to honor them. And then we try to do as much as we can in the community. And that's, again, every community is different, but we found that it's having gone through laws myself, it's important. And you really have to be mindful of where people are at in those stages. Absolutely. And I think that going back to my experience with you previously, you may not have realized this, but when I was a court worker working with individuals who were facing the court

system, they were the ones wanting to talk to you and knowing that you were the resource to go to. And that was kind of my first interaction with your name was people recognizing like, well, my chief is amazing. And like, if I need something, I know I can go to him. And it was like, this is so unique for me because usually it's who do you have that you can turn to right now. And the list is short and they're nervous or they're already with the person that they believe they can turn to. And to be able to turn to you and have this name that it keeps reoccurring. and I hear it in the community all the time. That was my experience, and it was so humbling to know that it didn't feel like they were doing it to bring your name up and show off that they know you.

It was like, I need this person and they're amazing. And so it was kind of like a glimpse into how other people see you. And that was so humbling for me because it does show that people's decisions and how they operate in their community makes a difference. It does show up in the important moments. I had no idea. Yeah. And I, you know, I think one of the things that I learned early on was in positions of leadership. I think it's very important to lead by example.

So it's not about, you know, having a status or anything like that. People that know me know that I, they'll come in and say, you know, Chief David or, you know, Mr. Jimmy, as you welcome to me this. morning and I'm like just just Dave is good you know I don't I'm not title is just a word you know there are many people out there that don't have a title in front of their name that do exceptional work they're there for families they're there to support they they see something happening and they jump forward and they may not be recognized by the name or or having that title so I I'm you know I understand titles and and I understand how people can connect them to certain positions, but at the end of the day, you're really just there to try to provide support and be there and help, whether it's your own members or even friends or family. I think it is part of the biggest contribution.

Absolutely. Can you tell us just a little bit of your family lineage? Because I think for some people, they may know it as the Jimmy Reserve, but for others it's Squayala. So can you tell us a little bit about that and a little bit about the history? Sure. So it's a bit unique currently. We have, so my grandfather and my grandfather. So my grandfather, Sam, and my grandmother, Teresa. At one point, we had, they had their siblings living on the reserve, but they had all moved away to different communities. And so it ended up just being my, my granny, Teresa, and my grandfather, Sam, that were all. We're all. on the reserve of Squayala, and they had seven boys. And so those seven boys, my father and my six uncles. And if you look at Squyala, the Jimmy Reserve, as people used to call it growing up, every member in our community comes from those seven boys. So it's a bit unique having 200, just over 200 members, and were that closely linked to my father and my uncles that everybody comes from.

So you have seven major families in the community. And that's a, you know, so when you're dealing in community issues, and maybe that's, you know, that's probably why people refer to it as the Jimmy Reserve because it was the seven Jimmy boys growing up and then all of their kids, right? So growing up, they were very accurate. my uncles and my dad. They were active in canoe pulling. They had Fraser 1, 2, and 3 canoes for 11-man canoes that they traveled around with. They were known for playing soccer as well. They played lacrosse. Fishing is always very big in our community. So, you know, everybody's got their different locations and fishing spots from Yale down to Chilliwack. So I guess that's a little bit of the lineage in the community and how unique it is. My grandmother, there was a really, was a big driving force in our community as a chief for a number of years and helped kind of steer and guide the community into, she was very active locally with

municipality. She was a nurse. She had gone and contributed and worked trying to support local initiatives as well. So I find that maybe that's where I get a bit of that kind of drive for the relationship building piece. Yes, because that is a huge part. What was it like growing up on the reserve in comparison because I grew up off of reserve and I certainly recognized that going back onto reserve, I was treated differently because I wasn't from the community. They looked at my mom and I for certain points as if we abandoned them. And that wasn't the case. We were part of the 60 scoop, so it wasn't my mom's choice to leave. But we have experienced those tensions. So what has it been like for you to kind of watch those relationships occur?

It's unfortunate when we see people move away or people that didn't grow up there and not by choice and then try to find their way home and not be fully accepted. I've always struggled with that because family is family at the end of the day. And decisions that were beyond your control, you can't blame somebody for that or you can't hold that against somebody. So I think just watching it, we try to be encouraging when we've, find out that members are coming back or want to come back. And, you know, when we have community events, obviously outside of COVID, we encourage them to come, be a part of the

community and be there. I've witnessed the, um, it's almost like, it's almost reverse racism in a way. You, you know, we, we've been exposed and experienced racism growing up in different ways. But it's not to say that it doesn't happen the other way as well. So our own communities, you know, our own communities that feel a certain way about individuals or groups or the differences that exist. I'm not naive to think that it doesn't exist because I've seen it. How we deal with it, I think, is a bit of a challenge. But it's recognizing it as a first step and calling it out when it is happening. And so I think just that, the more work communities do together, I think the stronger they are

and the more accepting they are. I don't think that exists everywhere. I've also seen, you know, family members come home, welcomed with open arms. So it's not just one-sided. It's, there's a bit of a mix. But it's just, I think it's a result of, if you think, think about the Indian Act, you know, creation of reserves and limitations on what you could do, um, there's an element of it that, that sort of pushed a, uh, created a certain

mindset, you know, trust factor. Um, how do you trust after so many things have gone, you know, gone wrong, um, the, the challenges and the, um, the racism against indigenous people. So I think that that contributes to that factor of, you know, people staying close and keeping within their own circles. And if an outsider's coming in, you're very wary about it. So I don't think it's, you know, on purpose. I think there's an element of what we've been exposed to that's kind of contributed to that factor. I absolutely agree. But what was it like?

Because I listened to the TED talk you did, which was absolutely phenomenal. And some of those experiences, I don't think, get enough light because there are subtle. differences, there's major differences, but there's also subtle differences. And I think that that's what you touched on a lot in the TED talk is you just don't realize that behind the curtain, there's so much more going on. And I think that those are the conversations we should be having when we talk about reconciliation is trying to line up those little things where when you were, I think it was like 15, you were operating a vehicle and that was normal to you, but completely outside of the realm of possibility to somebody off of reserve, those are subtle

differences of what makes a person up that we don't realize. Do you have any other of those stories or experiences? Lots. Yeah. You know, I think in that instance, I talked about the story. I can't remember if it was the one about driving from hockey. Yes. Yeah. So another one is we fit, our fishing spot is in Yale at Emory Creek.

And so growing up, that's, you know, we, we spent. a lot of time there. And being second youngest, there's a big gap with my siblings. And so we were fishing at, uh, in Yale. And on the last day, we used to pack all their fish up the hill. And so, um, we pack up the camp. We head up, uh, to the top of the hill and, uh, over the tracks and get in the vehicles and drive home. So I had the last, um, sack of fish to care, to carry up the hill. And so I had got to the top of the hill and I got over the tracks and I look and it's just my older brother, one of my older brothers sitting there. And he had this old like 1971 Chavelle. And he had been drinking all day and his friend as well. And so I had got to

the top of the hill. I looked around and my dad was gone. Everybody was gone and it was just my brother. And so I put the fish in the back, in the trunk of his car. You know, we had a tarp out and put, put the fish in the trunk of the car. Close the car. I jumped into the passenger seat and he loved his loud music. It always has. He's just one of those guys. Back then it was six by nines that were, you know, the big popular loud music in a car.

And so we would sit there with this loud kind of old rock and roll music just cranked. And I kind of looked over and I was thinking, oh, this is not, this is not good. And he stopped for a moment and he looked at me and he goes, do you think you could drive? And I was only, I think it was either 14 or 15 at the time. And this is in Yale. And so I. It's a long drive. It's a long drive.

And I've never been on the highway before. You know, driving around the reserve is a little different. Yeah. Doing 30 or 40, but, you know, on the highway, on the low heat or and then getting on the highway number one. So he looked at me and asked me if I could drive and I said, I think so. And he goes, he just stared at me. He goes, either you can or you can't. And so, you know, with a few swear words in there, of course.

And he was funny about it. But I looked at him, was like, yeah, I can't because he's in no condition. So I drove all the way from Yale to Chilliwack. You know, you talk about white knuckling and thinking about driving through a snowstorm or rainstorm for the first time. Well, that was me holding on as tight as I could, driving while he, he, you know, still had his music playing. It was this, you know, old car with a tarp in the back.

And so every time I turned a corner, all the fish would go to one side of the trunk. And so it started to pull the car a little bit. Anyway, I, so I drove all the way home. My dad happened to be filming outside just as I pulled in. So he actually got it on camera. I pull in my brother yells out the window and he says he drove all the way you know and I and then I pull up put it in reverse back back it in to the totes and you just see this little kid's head pop out of the window to look back and go park the car I get out

walk in you know those are I think back on it now and at the time was super scary Do we do that today? No. Would I ever allow my children to do that? No way. You know, I was lucky enough that I had, you know, enough experience to drive, but that could have easily gone the wrong way. You know, it's a neat story to be able to tell and have it on film and that, but, you know, you think about how dangerous it was and it's a bit frightening. But, you know, I can kind of look back. and laugh. I have plenty of other stories and examples of growing up where things just happen on reserve that didn't, well, I shouldn't say they don't happen off reserve, but they were probably more frequent on reserve. And, you know, I mentioned in my talk that it was a close friend of mine that as we were, I think, in our early 20s, he had made a comment one time about me growing up a little rough

And I just thought, no, I, it's normal because when you grow up, you just think that everything around you is the way that it's supposed to be and you don't think anything of it until you start realizing that everybody else is not going through some of those experiences. And I will never expose my children to some of those experiences. You know, it's just not, they shouldn't have to see it. And so I guess you, you learn for those, when I talk about being sort of shaped in a way and, And would I take those experiences away? No, I think it really did contribute to who I am and how I understand things now and the differences in how I'll look at my kids being raised. Yeah, I completely agree because for me, my mom was obviously part of the 60 scoop, but she grew up more in White Rock. And that is a very different group of people than Chihuathal in that community over there.

And so I definitely got to experience a dichotomy of what it's like to have very little and what it's like to have very little. and what it's like to have everything you kind of need and that I wouldn't trade that for anything because I did learn so much about what it's like to struggle and where did that struggle come from and what is it like to have a lot and be so comfortable and trying to tie those two together really forces you to grapple with both issues

and understand that having everything isn't great and having nothing isn't great and but having those two really forces me to think about both sides and understand the, like, Caucasian culture and indigenous culture. And that's where I feel like my knowledge lacks. I want to take Halclam-Alam courses and learn more about it because I don't know what I don't know. And there could be a lot of knowledge there that I just don't have access to. And I should go explore it so I can bring the two closer together and have that.

So you've obviously done that as well. What has that been like for you to grow up in an indigenous culture and want to bring the two together? Oh, you know, my dad had built our first longhouse in our community right in front of our home. And so we grew up as kids in there, you know, in sort of the off-season playing and just being immersed in that culture. my dad having become a new dancer in Lummi. And so we grew up there and unfortunately it had burned down in I think it was 1994 and just devastated my dad. And so you grow up knowing and learning about certain aspects of that culture. But I also was very alive and in tune to off reserve because, you know, we're in an urban setting.

We're not rural. We're here immersed in the local municipality. And so I think growing up knowing that how different they were and that a lot of people, you don't realize, again, kind of back to that story of when a friend says you grew up a little rough and you say no, it's that awakening of saying, okay, there's a lot more. of that out there. There's a lot out there that people just simply don't understand. And we've made incredible strides, I think, in the indigenous communities, in areas of economic development of land jurisdiction, you know, all of these area taxation, you name it. I feel like there's been a ton of

progress, but the common citizen has no idea that all of that has been taking place. And so sometimes I feel like we've been left out of the conversation or we haven't been a part of it. And that was a big push for me to start building those relationships in Chilliwack, to start looking at bridging the gaps between the indigenous community and non-indigenous community. And that was something that was really, has always been very important to me. And it's not, not that I'm trying to push anything on anybody. It's an awareness and it's an education piece. As much as I want to learn about how, you know, off-reserve certain elements of the municipality work or how we can find ways to work together through the provincial government or federal government.

So I think that helped, you know, those experiences helped me decide or think about what could we do here and what could we do that's going to benefit the greater community overall. And I think I've been very fortunate to find and align myself with like-minded people in the non-indigenous community. So it's been a good experience, clearly not done. I think we've made some great strides and sure are. That's awesome. Before we move into that piece, because that's absolutely a part I want to get into,

can you tell us a little bit more about some of the ceremonies and maybe things that people wouldn't think of that are some of the benefits of having a potlatch or getting together in community, some things where it just might go unnoticed, but it's super valuable. I think that that happens a lot, and we can see that readily with the benefits of the court system. There's obviously flaws, but like innocent until proven guilty is an easy, thing that they brought that's super useful. Can you just tell us a little bit about the ceremonies and what people might not think of when they hear potlatch that might, or other

things? There's, I mean, a number of different ceremonies, first salmon ceremony. You know, you think of others where it's just community, puberty rights ceremonies. And then there are a number you know in to take place in the longhouse that we don't really talk publicly about it's not it's not that it's secret it's just that there's there's a place for tradition and culture that sits amongst our communities and if people feel free to talk about it i think they can i i don't feel that it's my place to really share any of that information and in stories um i just you know i i compare it a little bit or you look at different um religions throughout the world and it's a culture that you grow up with, and it's ceremonies that take place,

teachings that are passed on. You know, I think that's one of the most valuable parts of culture and tradition and ceremonies is that these teachings are being passed on from generation to generation through elders who, you know, a lot of times will hear speakers talk and share stories. and sometimes they don't tell you the end of the story or sometimes they don't finish the story. It feels like they haven't finished the story. And if you go asking, an elder will likely tell you that, you know,

it's intentional because you're supposed to figure out what that means or you're supposed to, you know, is part of your journey and your learning experience, understand what that is. So I think the value is, again, passing on of knowledge. I think it's understanding. important for us to understand for anybody who you are and where you come from. And it doesn't have to necessarily define you. I think that's the luxury that we have in today's world is that you can have all of those,

you know, if people's religion is, whether it's to be Christian, you're indigenous, Jewish, it doesn't matter. That's not what defines you as an individual. I think it's the work that you go out and do. you keep those values close to you and you're raised with them. But every individual is out there doing what they believe is right, likely guided by a lot of that, the principles that we have in culture and in tradition. But I don't think it's there to necessarily dictate who you are as an individual.

I think that's something that we all do ourselves. Absolutely. So let's move into it a little bit more then and talk about in 2008 and 2009, you were working for a construction company. It was your own, David Jimmy, construction. And then the 2008 financial crisis happened, and it sounds like you left that, and you traveled. Can you tell us a little bit about what that whole experience was like? Sure.

I think it was in construction from 2005 to 2008 when the crash had taken place. And again, very fortunate to be in a position and work with some great partners. I have had wonderful working relationship with the Van Maren Group of Companies in Chilliwack. So had built Halcyon Meadows in Vedder and then moved out to West Bank and built three apartment buildings in West Bank. And it was at the end of that that there were, you know, the market was doing, what it was doing. There were no new projects really lined up. I wasn't sure what my next step was going to be, if it was going to stay in construction. And that's when I had always traveled.

But I sort of made a commitment to myself when it was younger that one day I would love to do a big trip. The stars just seemed to happen to a line. And I ended up buying an around the world ticket. They sort of called it. But you would go to certain places and then from there you could buy your own tickets And, you know, like Europe is so big that you can, I traveled around quite a bit there. But it was a bit of a soul searching, I think, trip. You know, I knew, I started obviously with my going to see my grandmother and family in England.

And then probably half of the places that I went to, I knew people. So it wasn't always alone. Like there were lots of times where you're kind of, I thought about coming home. but as, no, I got to get through this. And I just, I've always been a fan of experiencing other cultures and other areas of the world because you find similarities often and then the subtle differences that are, you know, helping to shape what, you know, that particular country is like

or a group of people. I can remember being in Indola in Africa and doing a bit of volunteer work there and sitting down and talking with some of the elders in the community, and they were sharing stories. And they were so similar to some of the stories that are told by our elders. And, you know, in some of the sort of smaller townships they were called, essentially like almost, I don't know what the proper term is for it,

but, you know, single huts, large families, no running water, no stoves, you know, cooking over the fire. And there would be like 3,000 people in these townships. And so when I first got there and walked through one, I had, you know, a crowd of kids following me. And because they hadn't seen someone like me come through their township. And so before I had left, like these are all these experiences I think about on that trip that were so memorable.

and I bought a number of soccer balls in England and flattened them, put them in my backpack, and brought them with me. So, you know, I had a ball. They're sitting there. They've got a, their soccer field, if you would call it, that by our standards is just dirt sort of area. They had these really, they had sticks essentially for the goalposts. And what they were kicking around was, was plastic bags wrapped and wrapped and wrapped. So it was like a garbage soccer ball, right? Yeah.

And so for them to have a real soccer ball is, they're super excited. But it's going and seeing that type of, I don't know if, you know, I think it's just the, when you see it. And again, this reminds me of growing. up, you don't think about what's right or wrong or around you or whatever, because these children are all still happy. It's what they have and where they are and what they're growing up with. They don't know any different, but they're happy. And you can see the smiles on their faces. You can see what they're doing. Obviously, there are some struggles. There was a lot of, you could,

you could also see the fear in some of the children with the older men, which was, you know, hard to to watch and I didn't see any of the abuse, but you could just feel something was aw. But those types of experiences, I think, just make you think twice about what we have at home. And I always thought it would be great to have an exchange program when people start complaining about what we have here in the community and, you know, lack of resources or whatever. And I thought, okay, well, maybe we should arrange something. We'll go over there and you can see what it's really right because it's a whole different world. Yeah, I definitely think that that's true.

with the appreciation that indigenous people, and obviously in Africa, they have for their elders. But during this pandemic, I think it's shined a light on the lack of resources and the lack of support, just general community members offered to their elders. And I think that that's a unique part of indigenous culture that is now separate from Caucasian culture, which is to take care of your elders. And obviously, like, Caucasian people still do that, but just on scale in Chilliwack, I think that that has been presented as an issue. And so I think it's so valuable to be able to share these stories and these experiences.

What other places did you go to and what were those experiences like? I mean, I think it was 19 countries in that period. And everywhere was a little different. You know, even Botswana to Indola, different. Egypt to Oman different. And, you know, I can remember Egypt was one of the most unique experiences when I, because I had landed and I had checked into my room. And I just went to the lounge and I was just having a beer, you know, kind of relaxing. And I, my, one of my brothers had phoned me and said, hey, what are you up to?

Where are you at? And I said, well, it's interesting because you're not going to believe this. I'm sitting down, just having a beer and looking out the window at the pyramids. you know that's wild I'm just you know you think of all the things

that you'd like to see in the world and you grow up reading about it and then I was just there and so then the next day of course you know being on a camel and riding out through and just that experience there's something to be said

about seeing things firsthand the differences and you know I got dropped off in old Cairo and walked my way through to new Cairo and old Cairo you know really run down

I had a young boy pull a knife on me just again you I didn't even know how to react because he was so little so I ended up just buying him some food and then he left and he was fine yeah and then you get into new Cairo where it's just all the tourists are and it's a different you know situation so you see the extreme extreme poverty to to non and and I think you see that everywhere but I think that was that was one of the unique experiences being able to be there, understanding the rich history that was there. Other places, Sagris, Southern Portugal was one of my favorite. I think it was just getting off the beaten path a bit,

and it was just a surf camp, so I was able to kind of go and not think about a whole lot and just spend some time. It's one of those places where I think there might have been two ATM machines, one grocery store, just really small and enjoyable. location. Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, I think, again, you know, seeing the killing fields firsthand is something that it's almost a bit traumatizing because you know the history of what had taken place there.

And it's not a, you know, I don't think it's a place that you go in like a typical tourist location. But I wanted to understand a little bit more about. it and hear firsthand from some of the people there and it was just devastating. Again, these eye-opening sort of experiences that help formulate your own thought process and help think about the things that are important to you. And so I have, you know, a ton of, a ton of stories from that trip. Those are some that stood out to me.

Again, differences in just simple traffic, you know, Egypt traffic was brutal in Southeast Asia traffic again you know we're all the everybody's on a scooter lining up at the light and there is no really real rhyme or reason to to how everybody is moving forward and crossing the street that was very unique I think it was in Vietnam you know you don't wait for the light or the signal you just start walking and I didn't fully grasp that and they said you got to just start walking don't make eye contact with because the scooters there's There's hundreds of them just going by.

Yeah. And vehicles and just don't make eye contact. Just pick your path, walk it, and they'll all go around you. So if you make eye contact, because that's not what they do, they don't know what you're going to do. They think you're going to move one way or the other. So if you just keep going, they all go. And they did. That's wild.

Yeah, like little things like that. It's a bit of a leap of, you know, of trust that you have to have with the local people to say how things are done. I you know other areas Zambia was a unique experience I had finished in in Dola and wanted to do something different so I went on an adrenaline trip and I did you know river rafting down to Zambizi did some absailing did this um what else was there oh a gorge swing which was pretty frightening um what is that so they they have this a big gorge right that and they got a cable going across the top of it and uh you know it's clipped into the middle and their safety standards are a little different over there so you've got again it's a trust factor and so you you buckle into this harness and they uh and it's just this big cable that's connected into the middle and you just take a jump a leap off the cliff and you get about three four seconds of free fall and then the wrote you know the cable connect

and whips you across the... Oh, my gosh. Yeah. So, again, I'm by myself, and there's other tourists that are doing this. And I had to get somebody to film it for me. And I, as soon as I stepped off, I screamed. And I got down to the bottom, and I was like, okay, I'm going to do it again, and I'm not going to scream.

I've already done it. I'm good. And so they filmed it again, and it's the exact same scream this second time. So, you know, mixing the balance of experiencing, local culture to still having fun and going and doing things, you know, skydiving in Australia or bungee jumping in Zambia as well. So there were just so many different elements of that trip that I, it's been a while since I've watched any of those videos or thought about that trip that you kind of think

back and go, oh, actually, yeah, that was, you know, quite amazing to actually go and do it and get it done. And at the time, I had no kids. I wasn't married, so I, uh, yeah, I think it was a big, big contributor to sort of helping shape where I am. And, and, you know, one of the highlights of that trip was that I actually got engaged on the trip. Wow.

Yeah. That is amazing. Please go on. Yeah. So, um, you know, my, my current, my wife, Brenda, she, uh, we were a boyfriend, girlfriend at the time. And she was, she was, she understood. it. She understood that if I didn't do it, then I was never going to do it. And so she was,

you know, I don't think she was encouraging. I think she was accepting and being good with it. So I went and I had already had an idea of, you know, where we were going. And so I flew her out at the beginning of the trip to England and we went to Italy. So I ended up buying the ring in England and then proposing in Italy. So it was at the early stages of the trip, before. And so I, you know, that was, I think, something else that became tougher and tougher is that I knew what I was coming home to. But it was just an important part of me to go and do that trip and experience. Wow, that is amazing because going back to what you said about going to Vietnam and experiencing those things, to me, it's really hard to believe that somebody can be

a good person if they're just naive. Like, trusting someone just because they say they're not going to do anything. It's trusting knowing they could hoop you, they could screw you over. That's real trust because you know what another person is capable of. To go to those places and to know what happened there and what human beings are capable of is part of being a role model because you have to recognize, I'm not going to go in this direction. I'm not going to be like what happened to my people. I'm not going to let what happened in Vietnam happen in my community. Like those things are so important to develop yourself and say like I'm going, because you're, you are, in my view, going towards the best possible good for the community, for your family,

and moving in that direction is full well-knowing how bad things could be if you weren't doing these things because they could get worse. And I think that that's so valuable because it sounds like you learned so much from those experiences and you came back, like a fully grown adult, like where you knew what people are capable of. You knew what you wanted with your partner. And that's so much growth to do in one year. Did you expect that when you were going into wit no I had no idea no you know I can clearly remember um my brother one of my brothers had had driven me to the airport and we sat and kind of just chatted a bit before I left and it was just one of those weird moments where he uh he said he was like you know I wish I was coming and of

course and because we had actually backpacked to Europe when we were younger and and uh gave him a hug and just walking through those gates, kind of going, I'm not sure what's going, what I'm doing here. I'm like, I guess I'm really doing this and just kind of take that leap and go for it. But, you know, had I thought I was going to gain all of that experience, I was hoping I would have, you know, come away from it with an educational piece of understanding more of the world and people.

But, you know, thinking back, even as I talk about it now, I don't think it was, you know, fully expecting all of that. Yeah. So you went away and then you come back with like kind of a whole different mindset and a different approach. What, where did you start when you got back and what were your priorities? Because a lot of things came from that and where we are today is completely different than before you went on that trip. So what was the transition to come back like? It was tough.

You know, I'll be honest, I floundered a little bit because I wasn't, I was still unsure of the direction. My mother had always, I felt like, was trying to bring me back into the community in some form or fashion, whether it was working or in the position I'm in now. And so an opportunity came up for a lands manager position in the community, and I went for it. And I was, you know, starting, and I understood the dynamics in the community. understood the dynamics and what was going on. And it was kind of being immersed in the band office that opened my eyes a little bit more to what was going on or the opportunities that were there. And then, I think I was in that position for a year before I decided to run for the chief

position. Wow. So for indigenous people, I'm not sure if this is true for Squyala, but some, they do that traveling or they go into the forest and they reflect was that at all part of the decision or because i think that that happens a lot more in the states with indigenous communities where they'll go away and they'll do like a spirit reflect was that at all no not so much um on my trip i i you know we often talk about um being visited by our ancestors and and uh or or if you say certain things out loud you're held to those

things that you say, not by yourself, but by, you know, you have to fulfill what you've said. And I had talked about a few things on the trip about the community. And I actually remember a moment of, it was my grandmother, you know, who it was passed and just felt that she, there was this connection to say, okay, it's time to go home. And it was along that trip. And that had deeper meaning, you know, time to go home also meant, you know, what can you do in the community and how can you help? And I don't think there was, you know, I didn't go on any type of fasting or sort of vision quest type of ideas, just more thinking about how I could contribute. And it wasn't, you know, I don't like to, I think too often we see and hear of leadership issues.

And I was never wanting to, you know, don't take anything away from previous leadership. You know, I believe that they did what they could in their time there. And I felt like I had something different to offer. And it was from work experience. It was from, you know, education. It was from a different understanding of development, especially with the negotiation of the easement agreement with the city and Eagle Landing coming. So I think those are contributing factors and just being able to help, you know, wanting to

to be able to provide additional support in the community and maybe it was at time for a new direction. Wow. Well, that's absolutely phenomenal. So let's get into the education piece because that basically happened around the time that you got back. And then you went to the University of the Fraser Valley and you chose business. Can you tell us a little bit about what that experience was like? Sure. I went to university right out of high school to UFB with no plans. And so it was general studies. I was taking, you know, history classes. I thought I was going to go into kinesiology, so I took a few kinesiology classes. I was in geography because I had taken geography in high school. I had no, no idea what I wanted to do. So just felt like everybody was going

so I needed to. From there, that's, you know, I ended up going back to work. I worked for several years. I was a forest firefighter for seven summers. I was a faller. My dad was a faller, um, worked in, in the school district as a, an Aboriginal education assistant as well. Um, so that wasn't my first time, you know, wasn't the first time going back to university, but this time was focused. And so coming back, you know, I enrolled in the program. I felt that I needed to be immersed in an actual program and, and sort of determined to to finish that. Uh, UFE, you know, is an easy decision just being here. I, um, I wasn't looking to trial.

You know, a lot of people want to get out of Chilliwack right away. They're ambitious to go to the, you know, a university across the country or into the states or even just to Vancouver. And I wasn't, that wasn't me. So I was happy to go to a fee. I felt that they had programs that were, they were offering, which were suitable to what I was looking for. And the business administration program aligned well with me because I had done the work in the construction industry. learned more on the development side, came back into the community and started to see the

opportunities and what we were doing with Eagle Landing. A majority of that was already negotiated by the time I had got there, but you really wanted to ensure that you had the skills and ability to look after that properly, and that was something that was important to me. And also, again, I go back to leading by example. there's a lot of moments in leadership that you just don't feel are you know are you supposed to be this almighty visionary and you know you have all the answers and this wise person well no you you learn along the way and you're you're shaped along the way and so I just felt that you know

that education piece has all was always important to me it was something that just internally, I always felt that I needed to complete. And so going back felt good. At that time, having a clear direction was super helpful. And UFE just was a good fit for me. Wow. And then you moved on to SFU shortly after that, correct? And what was that transition like from something a little bit more local to having to, I suppose, drive all the way out there? Yeah. It's an executive MBA program. So a little bit different. We would do two-week you know, you're on campus for two weeks and then you're doing everything online and in between in correspondence with your instructors.

That was a bit of an eye-opener. I think a lot of it, I believe, really just helps with your work ethic. You know, you've got timelines. You have to meet. You know, if you really want to do well in the program, you've got to put the time in and the effort and understand what you're doing. So the transition there, that was tough because, you know, I had this position of chief for the community. I had my first, my boy younger, you know, a new baby.

And then going for, you know, two weeks at a time. And then at home, going to work every day, getting home, doing, you know, family time. And then I would start my homework sometimes at like 9, 8, 39 o'clock at night and sit down there until. you know, falling asleep pretty much. And trying to keep up through that period was extremely difficult. And then, you know, I've always been one that if you see opportunities that are connected to good work, it's hard to say no. And so doing more and more, I wouldn't have been able to do it if I didn't have the support for my wife 100%. But she, you know, definitely was behind me and understood that it was important to me.

and supported me to go through and complete. Well, let's make sure that we catch that then. So what happened when you got back? You're engaged to your wife. What happened there? Yeah. So we set a date to get married. We, it was a bit different then, I think.

You know, we had a fairly large wedding, just different family members. And we got married in Chiakton at the hall with our reception there. And then right away, we were, you know, ready to start thinking about children. And she'd already had her daughter from a previous relationship, who I consider my daughter, because I've had her since she was three. And we were talking about, you know, next steps. And so that's... What was that like? What was developing a relationship?

Because you may not know this, but that has become a theme in the podcast of the role models I've had on, really. taking that role seriously and recognizing that there is a woman with a child and you're entering that relationship and you have to create a relationship with both the child and the mother and that is a lot of responsibility and it's kind of a theme that's come out of the podcast that I didn't anticipate occurring but it happened with Brett Contella it happened with David Shearer and now yourself and it's it's so unbelievable how positive that is in comparison to what I see on social media which is Tinder and dating a bunch of different people, there's these men out there that are taking responsibility not just for the humans in their own lives, but they're developing relationships and doing that.

So what was that like for you? It's tough. I think it's different, I think, if you already had a child and you understand, you know, having a baby going through that, the bond and the relationship that you have and the responsibilities that come with having a child. and then marrying somebody that has a child. So not having any children and going into that, it's tough because there are just certain things about raising a child that you don't know yet.

And so building the relationship, it was supernatural. She was obviously just adorable and had this laugh that would light up a room any time. And we were close right off the bat. And I just, you know, part of me going in that, you know, falling in love and having a relationship with two people, it was, it didn't even really think about it. You know, it just, when it's happening, you're there and you just take on the responsibility. And I don't even know if I should, I don't think that's the right word responsibility. It's just you make decisions and you naturally grow with it.

And I think that was something that her and I have always, you know, she's 17 now. And I've had her for that long, you don't even think about it. We can have very open conversations about anything. She can come and tell me anything. She trusts us as parents. We have a very close relationship with her. I'm, you know, I wouldn't change that for the world. And I'm glad, you know, more than happy to be where I am with her.

I really appreciate that because I don't think, as I said, we see that in movies, in TV shows, there's always this dichotomy, there's always this disagreement with those roles developing. And within everything I've experienced, it's been immensely positive for both people involved. And so you can say you're a role model very safely because you took on this role in this person's life. And it's, it's so natural now. And I think that that's important for people to be able to incorporate into their life and realize that you can build relationships with people and it's not just about blood. And I think sometimes we get stuck in that and it can be just as positive. And so from there, you're at SFU. You're engaged or

married when you're going to SFU? We are married. Married? Yeah. And then so you finish up that program. What were you thinking about once you were wrapping that up? I don't know. I was already you know, doing, I already was in the role of chief and CEO for the band, so handling all band business operations. I was involved with the Chilquake tribe already. You know, I was attending the Staling Nation Chiefs Council meetings, going to provincial meetings and national meetings to sort of understand what the landscape was out there and how the work that we were doing. So I don't think I had a plan when I was done. You know, I think some people imagine that you've done and all of a sudden all these doors open up and you get to go in

all these different directions. And I saw it for a lot of people in the program that I wasn't looking for that because I was already, you know, felt pretty comfortable with where I was. I was just looking to really expand my skill set, really feel comfortable in the business environment and really understand that my contributions were as much as, you know, the partner across the table that's got years and years of experience. That's really what I was looking for. And sometimes, you know, unfortunately, people put a lot of weight behind letters, you know, the letters behind your name. And I've met and worked with a lot of people that didn't have the degree or didn't go to school, but the experience was worth way much.

more than the education piece was. So in some tables, you know, you go and they see the letters. They go, oh, okay, we can, you know, it's a different conversation. And it was just important to me to go and do. And I had a great opportunity with SFU to go and be a part of the program. The initial, it was the, we were the first cohort of that program. So it was a bit, we may have been the guinea pigs a little bit, but. Sounds like it all worked out.

though yeah yeah it all worked out i you know people that know me in the program know i was a bit skeptical at the beginning um and it wasn't whenever i see aboriginal included in the title of a program i i get a little apprehensive i don't want it to be watered down and so i was very vocal about that um right from the very first sort of uh launch uh reception that we had and and i was asked to share a few words I talked about that and I wanted, you know, instructors, I wanted the director of the program, I wanted everybody to know that I'm here to put the work in, and I'm here to put the work and for it to be exactly the same as everybody else and every other program. And so I think pushing it in that direction was something that was, you know, important to me.

I'm really grateful to hear you say that because I feel the exact same way with some things I've interacted with in the school system have always made me skeptical, not because the quality of the information I wouldn't appreciate, but the expectations can sometimes be different and they can be lower. And I've never respected that and have recently made decisions where I was like, that might interest me, but I don't think that they're taking this as seriously as I would need them to, in order to believe that I'm going to get the most out of that course or that topic because it can be something where like you said it's watered down or it's not it's the easier route and I want the respective if I'm going to do something I want no excuses on my end

I'm going to put in the work and I want that respect when I'm done and so I do agree with that so did the program live up to expectations yeah I think there were certain aspects that you know I might have done differently and I think it was only in relation to some of the indigenous content because you had all of your standard MBA courses that were included and then there were a couple of or a few with an indigenous twist and in some cases like I didn't really need to get into you know for talking about some of the issues that are happening in the communities and the governance structures and those types of things because I live it and breathe it every day I don't need to be in a class on it and then interaction I felt like

We were kind of our own, we were a very tight group and we were a little bit on our own. And I felt like we could have benefited a bit more by further interaction with other cohorts from other MBAs programs. Yeah. Because a lot of those programs are the people that are going off and working for these large, whether development companies, you know, the BC Hydros or government, they're in that different industry that we're going to eventually. meet at some point. Nice to know some names and build those relationships. And we did have the opportunity and I think we were a little shy in our group. We just, we kind of kept to ourselves.

But I, you know, I think one of the most valuable aspects of the program was, was the relationship. It was the networking that took place between, you know, meeting new people, understanding what they were doing and how they were contributing in their respective roles. which I still value today, and I think that was one of the most important parts. Because I used to hate the networking stuff, you know, like you go to events and it just felt like this schmoozing sort of, but I didn't understand it then either at the beginning. Now I fully understand it. Those opportunities you have to talk to somebody that may be in a position that you need some advice on or can build a relationship and depend on it later on down the road. networking is a very critical aspect of, I think, growth for an individual and an organization.

So I've changed my tune when it comes to networking opportunities. That's awesome. Yeah, I kind of take this as my networking opportunities because I'd rather not go into a big building with 30 or 40 people and try and discuss complex issues where I might have more complex opinions than a quick drink. But doing this, it's awesome to be able to hear from people and get, way larger stories than I would get in like a quick coffee meeting or something like that. So now you wear multiple different hats, and I'm hoping we can get into that now. You are the Chief of Squayala, and you work with two other organizations. Can you tell us a little bit about your different roles?

Sure. So Chief of Squyala, you know, responsibilities around with respect to governance over the community, decision making and providing strategic direction on how we operate, there's decision making that comes from jurisdictional issues around lands, you look at the different agreements that we have with government that are the responsibility of chief and council, you look at our funding agreements, and then trying to decide what's in the best interest of the community. You know, you have a fiduciary responsibility in order to look out for the best interest of the overall community. And that's something that I think people don't necessarily understand fully

and they think of from membership's perspective on individual gain versus collectively what that looks like. And that's a challenge at times because in making decisions like that they may take offense to it because they think it's a personal decision where it's actually, no, we're going in a direction that's going to benefit the greater community as opposed to one individual. And so there's a lot of responsibility, I think, that comes in the position of in leadership and chiefs and councils. You know, we have a school, we operate our elementary school, and in the ultimate decision authority is chief and council. So where you have school boards and school board trustees and local municipality and local school district, we have to carry that responsibility. people often don't understand that we have various levels. So, you know, municipalities with respect to roadworks and all of the different aspects that come with it.

And then you look at provincial responsibilities around education and children and family services and those types of things. And then you have federal responsibilities around lands and, you know, the list goes on and on. Each of those governments are responsible for selectively those things. In the First Nations community, we're responsible for all of them. And as we've expanded our authority through legislation, like land code and tax laws and the ability to create our own bylaws, you take on more responsibility and it can become quite challenging. So you have to have a fairly good understanding of all the dynamics that come with the

responsibility and each community is different. Some are very small and don't necessarily have capacity to do all of those things. Others are large and have grown, you know, to have all of these different departments and work. So ultimately that responsibility falls on Chief and Council with respect to decision making. And then I also carry the chief executive role for chief executive officers for the band. So a little bit different because I'm, you know, with respect to Eagle Landing, actively participating as one of the partners there, understanding all of the leases that we have when they come up for renewals, when we look at new leases, and we have these proposals looking at their tenant improvement, what the offers are,

and understanding how the dynamics work with respect to restrictive covenants against other leases, those types of things for the overall development, is another total. different element of how we operate. You know, COVID was an example of how we had to maneuver knowing that some of our businesses couldn't open their doors for a period of time. So suffering, they have no revenue. They owe lease payments to us as landlords. We have responsibilities as landlords to the lenders that we've borrowed to build the shopping center in the first place. So you have this trickle-down effect that was taking place. And so a responsibility in that role is you know, talking with the lenders, negotiating deferrals for a period of time

so that we could offer those same deferrals to our tenants and who then can, you know, it's like landlord, tenants, lenders, employees, the impact was pretty significant. And then exploring new opportunities for the community as well. Overseeing the overall organization. So our lands department, finance department, housing department, social assistance, department, you know, our school. So oversight overall of that becomes a bit of a heavy responsibility as well. And then expansion of development, you know, where are we going? What are we going to do? What's the strategic direction that's going to generate the most revenue in return for community versus simple transactions? And that's a tough one. So that's the Squayala role. And then president of the Chilquoic tribe. So Chouac tribe is made up of seven communities. We have essentially what we do with the tribe. I'd like to think of it as our rights and title body. So, you know, we respect the autonomy of each individual

community, Squyala, Achlitz, Kokel, Yakwikwius, Chiakton, and Squayay. Each of those within the confines of their reserve boundaries have those responsibilities of chiefs and councils. So that's That's not the tribe's responsibility to meddle in any of that work. We look at how to steward our lands, our traditional territory. So if we look at the Chilliwack River Valley, we look at Chiluac Lake, we look at Coltis Lake, parts of the municipality that are within the traditional territory of the tribe. That's what we look at on how to steward and advocate on behalf of the communities. So, large proponents come through the territory, like a trans mountain expansion project.

That triggers an effect for us to do some consultation on behalf of the communities, negotiate with provincial and federal governments on other agreements. We have our forestry company that's operated through there. We have our forest stewardship plan, which we've developed in 2017 on behalf to actively manage our forest practices, being mindful of our responsibility. around stewardship in the territory. We've looked at running the river hydroelectric projects that we have essentially ready to go,

but came to a halt due to government restrictions on expanding the ability to negotiate those deals anymore. What else do we do? We do some property management within the organization. We look at referrals on behalf of communities as well. So if you have some work being done nearby your community, and it's going to have an impact on the community. We have a system to review the referrals and how that impact is going to look

and then rate them on a scale and provide feedback to the community to say, yes, you need to engage in this, or we can do it on your behalf. So those are just a few examples of what we do with the tribe. It's a very well-functioning body. I think the communities all have come together and understand the differences and where we can provide that support on behalf of the communities, which has been a great, we have a wonderful staff. Each of the organizations that I work with have great staff.

So that's a little bit about the tribe, the Stala Nation Chiefs Council. So as president of the Stalingian Chiefs Council, it's primarily a political advocacy role. There, you know, we're monitoring what the provincial government is doing, how that's going to impact any of our communities with respect to, Some of the work going on, you know, children and family services, education.

If communities want a letter of support, we can write it on behalf of the community to the government or to whoever. Sometimes, you know, these consultation discussions really need support from another organization and we try to do that for them. And we've come together to share resources. So, you know, just listening sometimes in a room to understand what other communities are doing is beneficial to somebody who. isn't there yet. So we get to share those stories and resources and discuss issues that are having impacts to our communities. And then my other role is I still have, we call it DGMI construction now, but still a licensed residential builder and general contractor and partner with Van Maren again, so building a project here in Chilliwack and another one starting next year

in West Bank. Wow, that is so many different hats. all have had tremendous impact on the community. Let's go back a little bit to Eagle Landing because I don't know if people even realize sometimes that when they're going to Walmart, they're interacting with the First Nations community and they have a huge role to play in the fact that we're able to go there and get our groceries and get our gas and see a movie. And I think that that's such a unique thing. Obviously that happens with She Act in First Nation as well in a different way because they have

different businesses, but that movement has been a great success, in my view, to bring two communities together and bridge those divides. I know that lots of people go to the Walmart and they're grateful and they recognize that that's a First Nations community, but what has that been like to have that as like a pillar in the community that brings people together? I think, I mean, obviously it's a great success story. Again, I would like to pay credit it to our previous staff and our previous leadership for the discussions that led to it, you know, with Eagle Landing Parkway negotiations for the easement agreement. I think it can be misleading to membership, though.

And that was a bit of a challenge in the communication. So on face, you know, in some cases, some will say we own, you know, some people thought we owned Walmart. Some people thought we owned Cineplex, that we owned these. everything that was on our land and and so you go through this educational process to say you know we're the majority shareholder in our partnership and we are landlords so we just we lease the space to them so then you know thinking that we're generating all of this revenue owning every store would be fantastic but it's not the reality and you know as a as a partner in the project people I think have misconception that you're making way more

more than you are. And we're very open and transparent with our membership. We do our audit presentation every year. Everybody can come and ask questions. Books are available online. You can see. But I think the success story is just, again, we've seen the growth in Chilliwack. We've seen the growth across the province and the country within sort of smaller communities that expand and don't necessarily have a choice at some point because all the lands have been developed or taken or private land holdings are there. And there are no more large plots of land available to do this type of development. And then the First Nations communities, you know, suddenly are, oh, let's go talk to them and let's see if there's an opportunity. And so I think

being able to leverage that and be an example for other communities to follow has been, been great. You know, we're not done clearly. We have additional lands there, but it's just trying to determine what's going to be the best and highest use for us. Wow, I'm excited to see what happens there. Because for me, just as a community member driving through, I'm so grateful. And it's so unique because as we were emailing back and forth and trying to set this up, it's so wild to drive through a community and know that somebody's put their stamp on it. And that's a lot of Chilliwack, in my view, for you, because there was Molson Cores where you were a part of that.

You were a part of the Vedder Bridge. you're a part of Eagle Landing, it's hard to drive down a road in Chilliwack and not have a point in time where you've interacted with it and brought some of the indigenous culture and so that's something I just wanted to let you know about that that's your impact in our community

and there's no getting around it. What was the Vetter Bridge was pretty recent as well as the Chilowack sign? What was that? What were those two experiences like? I mean, the Vetter Bridge roundabout I almost get a little bit, I'm almost at a bit of a loss with that one

because that one is very near and dear to me and I think it's just amazing that the city was willing to come forward and ask about a partnership and ask about working together and the willingness that's there. You know, some people see it as an art piece. I think it's much more than that because it demonstrates a collaboration and interaction and building relationship with the municipality

So, you know, that to me from the initial sit down and drawing it out on a piece of paper just has so many layers of meaning to me. So from the paddles, you know, we have several canoe clubs within each community that have been training at Caltus and have had the canoe races at Caltus for so long. So having paddles to represent, you know, our seven Chilquoic communities. And then having the additional paddle to represent the city of Chiluac, again, it just shows the collaboration. It shows, I think, a willingness to, that, you know, we're happy to do what we can and put, you know, our stamp on things. But we also want to recognize that there's more than that happening.

And then you, you know, you look at the top, a traditional dugout canoe with the Chilquoiac logo on it. in the heart of our territory. You know, think about where our ancestors had come from in the Chilawak River Valley and in Chiluac Lake. And then that, a pivotal point in location. So we have our traditional canoe there. We have Halcumelam lettering that's included as a welcome. You have salmon also in the design with the art, which is Stalo, you know, with people of the river. Connection to salmon.

It's always been there. It's part of who we are. And so all of those different elements, the water representation, are pretty significant on so many levels. And I think for most that go by, yeah, it looks nice. But to me, I have all of this other interpretation of it and what it is. And so, yeah, super honored to have been a part of it. And great to do the collaboration, obviously, with Bonnie Graham, having her come on in her artwork. And City of Chilowak working with their staff was really good.

So always appreciate that. That is, I think, one of the main things that differentiates that between, like, tokenism and just taking any indigenous artwork and putting it up, is that there was something behind the scenes that made that legitimate on both sides. There was respect on both sides. And that's actually a quote from when you were dealing with Chief Wanowin and that the other individual involved. He said that there was respect on both sides. And I think that that is something you deserve specifically.

respect for is that each time you've worked with a different organization or a different group is they seem to always leave feeling respected and that you're not running them over. And when I read that article, it was like, that's so nice to read. You didn't want to focus on Chief Wanowin. You didn't want to talk about those details. You didn't want to get into insulting the Chilliwack chiefs or anything like that. You wanted to focus on, let's just build a relationship. Let's ignore that. Let's move forward in a way that works for both of us. And that's what partnerships are. is figuring out a way forward. And obviously that that happened with the Vedder Bridge and there was a connection.

You and Mayor Popo seem to work really well together and have a lot of overlap. And it's fantastic to see that. And then on top of that with the Chiluac Chiefs. So could we talk a little bit about that as well? Sure. I think, you know, I've known, well aware of the organization for years growing up as a kid. You watched the Chilawak Chiefs, I went to all the games, you know, back when they had different names. for the team and and so in this case like you know being able to build the

relationship came sort of through the RBC Cup and so being approached to participate and and be a you know look at the potential of sponsoring being one of the major sponsors for the RBC Cup working with tourism Chiloac you know Allison Colthor was was a big driver in in that process but then being approached and in having that conversation with the Chilliwack Chiefs Organization as a whole was very open. You know, I think they came to the table willing and looking at opportunities and, you know, they're mindful of their organization.

They're mindful of the relationships here. And so, you know, I felt it was a wonderful opportunity for a number of reasons. One, we don't have a lot. lot of, I think, indigenous collaboration on major projects that come to Chilliwai. You know, usually city-led initiatives and that sort of thing. So here I thought, this is a great way for us. We've always talked about it as Chilquayak to promote who we are, promote the organization, promote the work that we do.

And, you know, this was a prime example of being able to do that. And it led to other initiatives within it. So, you know, thinking about going to Lloyd Minster to pitch to hockey Canada with our team, having an element of indigenous sort of component to the proposal was something I don't think had really been done before. And then, you know, sitting down and being asked to co-chair along Mayor Poppov, we got to discuss some of the work that was coming, what's included in a submission. mission and what does that look like? Coming up with the slogan, every tournament has a slogan, and in this case, I put forward sort of an abbreviated version of one of our Halcamaelam words. So let's a moth, let's a thala is of one mind, one heart.

And so we just, you know, abbreviated to be let's a mott, which we just used it as one mind. And the meaning behind that in the discussion that I had with the committee was, this demonstrates us working together. This demonstrates us coming together as one. This shows the collaboration and how important that is. And when I raised it at the table, no hesitation everybody was on board. So it just, it was great to get that type of reception. And then to, you know, I went to some of the, our elders luncheons and explained some of the work. that we were doing, and I said, here's an idea and a concept that we're working on. So you would see these, our Halcamaelam language in Chiluac on banners throughout the city

in relation to a major, a national tournament that's coming and will be nationally televised in Chiluac. Wonderful. You know, the elders are very proud of our language and very proud of keeping it alive. And so that was an opportunity to immerse a lot. little bit of our culture just through language into part of the tournament and the submission. And then another opportunity working with, you know, a local artist because the chiefs had asked about doing a third jersey. And so getting Jason Roberts to come and develop and design an indigenous by an indigenous artist

for that third jersey thinking about what he had done for the Canada 150 design he had had with the Canada flag and an indigenous component, you know, his art sort of stamped onto it.

So he took that piece, put it on the shoulder patches of the jersey, and then had his mask, which was super meaningful. He had explained the meaning behind importance of masks to us. And to see that third jersey out worn by the Chilliwack chiefs in a national tournament and then all auctioned off for a good cause to go towards a legacy fund for, you know, kids in Chilliwak playing hockey was another element of that relationship. And then, you know, I, in the interview around the chief want to win situation, I didn't want to dwell

on it because I didn't want to take away from the work that was being done in the partnership. That was something that was really important to me is if I was going to be involved, I couldn't be involved with him still there. Yeah. And they were mindful of it. And I think they'd already had discussions about it. I think they were waiting, might have been waiting for an opportunity to look at something else.

And, you know, I didn't want it to be a big deal in Chililac. I just wanted it to be, okay, we worked on it. And here we are. You know, in 10 years, people just see the cow and say, oh, we have a cow mascot. Well, and they don't remember, like, an indigenous community getting all up in arms and calling people out by name. And I think that that's one of the big differences is that you just took the opportunity to say, this is my one, like, this is my condition. Let's just try and sort this out. And then we can focus on one mind.

And if we can just do that, then we can focus on the good parts. And that's what I think is left in the taste in everybody's mouth is positive. positivity and bringing people together. And I think that that continues to be a theme within your work. And so the other part I want to ask you about is some of your colleagues, because we have a lot of indigenous communities here in the Fraser Valley, and you work with a lot of great people. I hope to have a few of them on.

Derek App is obviously at the front of my mind. Can you tell us a little bit of what it's like to work with other chiefs and what they're working on in their communities? I mean, it's a wide range. some communities have progressed really quickly others are still growing but I think we're seeing a common theme of growth in communities and we're starting to see a generational shift start to happen I think too with leadership that are taking more of an interest younger people taking an interest in leadership so traditionally you know I get this question a lot

where people, oh, I thought chiefs were generally older, you know, they have this picture in their mind. And I think I've been able to contribute to sort of what that looks like and that it doesn't have to be that way just by taking on a role and demonstrating progress and again, leading by example. So there's a lot of good chiefs in our territory and I'm proud to be, you know, a member of the greater stala community. I think of Joe Hall, previous chief of Chiakton, previous president of the Stalin nation and previous president of the tribe. One again, who led by example, instrumental in the First Nations Gaming Commission. So we just saw, I think it was last year or the year before, for years and years and years. Every province in the country has agreements in place with these first nations. nation's gaming revenue sharing agreements except BC. So BC was the last. Joe was an advocate.

He had been out working on that for years and years and years. Suddenly we get the right government in place and we have this agreement now finally. So Joe, a persistent, again, educated and well-spoken individual that led by example. Others, I think about, you know, Chief Morin Chapman, And she's a long-time chief from Scout and was somebody who, when I first started, had taken me, taken the time to sit with me and talk with me and share knowledge about all the different organizations and what they're doing. And she, you know, she was proud of being able to mentor. And she would like to try to look for those opportunities and very vocal.

You can go to provincial or federal meetings, and her name was well known because she would stand up and hold people accountable and was good for all of us to see and also a powerhouse within her own right here in the territory. Derek, obviously, when Derek came on board, I was, you know, we have a lot of similarities. We could be easily, we hit it off right away. Great to be able to talk to, you know, somebody who was willing, you know, really willing to learn. Sitting down and just talking about some of my experiences and in some of the mistakes I may have made or like just trying to shape the direction that I was going, able to share that with him. I can see the path is very similar, has been great. And he's open-minded and willing to listen and learn, is doing some great things, built good relationships in the community.

So great to see up-and-coming younger leaders as well. And then I think there are, you know, there are also, again, like I mentioned earlier, leaders that don't necessarily have a title. And so learning from them. You know, you don't have to be 50, 60 years old, and have a title in order to be a leader. I think we've got great examples of that in Chilliwack.

I can think of my younger cousin, Leandra, who coordinated the Black Lives Matter March here in Chiluac from Chiluac Senior. She's spoken at many events. I bring her up sometimes to do welcomes on my behalf in our own community, brought her to stall of business awards, to share a few words of her story, to Sandley, a Van Rye, another one, saw an opportunity within the community with respect to the

naming of the school, quickly realized we should be a part of this, assembled a small group, came up with some ideas, took advantage, and so it's leadership by example, again, taking the initiative and understanding that you can have an impact and do work in that way. There are others, you know, I think of Amber Price, another one in Chilowac. you know, it looks at, uh, what can we do to make Chilliwak better? And it, and it doesn't have to come from a political perspective. It doesn't have to come through, you know, doing these things. It's a simple initiative of, of what's important to her and how she would like to,

to help shift things. And, and so, um, I think, you know, her initiatives of just cleaning up downtown. Yeah. You know, those, those are, that's our own time. And, and that's something that she cares about and is doing. the mural festival, you know, just thinking outside of the box and in how we can help. So I think, you know, I think of mentorship and leadership in so many different ways. And yes, your peers that you think about.

And then there's this younger generation that is just doing it, right? And I love that, you know, I think of that motto is just a little bit of the Nike. Just do it, right? Like, go and take the initiative and get things done. And I think we're seeing more and more of that coming. So I'm excited to see what this next generation of, you know, those that don't even have titles yet are coming up and going to do, even without a title. I completely agree. I think what we're seeing more and more is people who are viewing it within their realm of possibility.

But on top of that, wanting to fix things from the foundation up and appreciating the value of the foundation that they're building from. Like, what Amber does is she just does what needs to be done. She's not like, well, I'm above cleaning this area. And that's like, I worked hard not to have to do that anymore. So I'm not going to do that. It's like whatever it takes to build our community. And just like what you did with the artwork in Vetter, it's every level has depth and has, if somebody asks about it, there's a story there. And there's so many levels to each paddle to each part of it that nobody can get underneath it and be like, well, that's just tokenism because you've put in the work and you've looked at building those relationships.

so other people are proud of it. Everyone involved in the process is happy, and that makes a huge difference on how people choose to move forward. And I think that that's why it's so important to hear from local people because there are people working so hard each day and not really seeking recognition, not seeking showing that they're the best of the best. Like what Amber is doing is not saying,

I'm better than anyone else. It's, I'm just like you, and I want to make our community better, and I want you to see that. And that's what you're doing. And I think that hearing from those people puts it into their mind, we need to get to work because there's a lot of people who complain about municipal, like provincial and federal politics. And it's like, who cares? Go out and do what needs to be done in your community. If there's not something put right, find out how, talk to people and learn about it.

And that's why it's so fantastic to people to have people on is because now people, if they have an idea or if they want to get involved, they know who to reach out to and who's kind of paving the path. And I think that Derek's work has also shown that and this willingness to collaborate and stop the divisiveness. Because the other thing I wanted to ask you about, I'm sure you've interacted with it, is indigenous politics within the Fraser Valley. Because as much work as you've done, I'm sure you've seen some of the political divisiveness. What is that like to see kind of go on not by you, but just kind of see it and go, well, like, that's not how I proceed, but like I respect their right to choose how they want to proceed. What is that like to just kind of see? It's unfortunate that we still have a lot of the divide going on. And I think in some cases there just may have been, you know,

I look at where we are currently today. And then I hear the stories of what had happened 20, 30 years ago amongst our First Nations political leadership. And we're in a different place now. And again, I'm not one to, I wasn't a part of that. I don't want to dwell on that. I think we just take what we have right now currently and move forward in a good way. There's still differences that exist.

There's always going to be differences that exist. You know, it's the same, you know, criticism comes from everywhere. You know, I think of all of these initiatives around about, you know, dealing with the Chilliwack Chiefs or there's always, you know, we can see the positives, but there's always criticism. And that's the one of the most difficult things, I think. in the position of leadership is how you deal with that and do you how much of it do you need to be alive and aware to the difference is i think it's again some people operate differently and and we have to be able to respect that you know i look at um we have stalo nation and stalo tribal council we operate differently we're doing different things um and what they're doing

I'm not going over to say you should do it in any way. This is their decision amongst their chiefs and leaders to operate in that way. Ours is a little different and, you know, we are operating and taking direction from the chiefs and on how they want to do things. And that's okay. You know, it would be great if we could find a way to all come back under the same umbrella. And I think it may happen one day, but it also complicates things. You know, if you're working, I think about working with the seven tribe communities,

and we have very good understanding of each other and how we work and operate and it works really well. You start to get into larger and larger and larger, you're going to start to have the differences. So, you know, it is out there. It's alive, I think, but you know, you work with what you have and you make the best of it and move forward in that way. Wow. Yeah, that's such a tough position to be in because I remember working on the indigenous resource document for the native court workers, and nobody within probation or crown had any access to what resources is available to an indigenous person that might not be available to just a regular Chilwaukee citizen. And to me, that was like, I need to get to work on this, but I definitely

got to experience some of the differences amongst the First Nations communities, but they all have the same goal, which is they want better for their members, they want better for their community and so getting the information down was so invaluable to probation and crown so they can say this is what this community offers so we can contact the first nation community and get them started with counseling because counseling is part of the resources available at suali or wherever the first nation community is and that's just something probation officers didn't know before and there's like resources through fn h a that are available to people that just regular people aren't aware of and we can start to address serious issues with not serious means and start to get them connected, somebody

who'd come in and say, like, why, I've been through intergenerational trauma. It's like, well, let's get you started on some counseling. And if you're up for it, you can do AA or NA if that's necessary. Here is a date in which those programs are offered. But even having that piece of paper didn't exist before. So what was an indigenous person to do prior? I don't understand how that job was done without that information because they need to know where all the resources are. and pick the ones you want to do. It's not about making you do what I think you should do or the judge making you. What would make you happy and make you closer to your family?

If that's the goal, let's just aim at that. Let's not focus on the court stuff. And so that was where I really got to hear from indigenous people and say, well, we offer this to our members, but nobody uses it. And it's like, well, let's try and fix that. Let's see if we can catch them and say, here's some opportunities. Let's stop going in this direction and move towards this direction. that might make you happier and your family happier and bring you all together closer. And so that was amazing to see because you responded really quickly.

You were connecting me. And that was the same for almost every community as they wanted that done too because that's something quick and easy where if I know, I can start to help your members do better. And I think of that I still get messages from probation officers saying, hey, I still have your document. It still helps. I know who to call now. And it removes unnecessary barriers. where there is no real difference between the resources. It's just about knowing where to find them.

And so I think that that's amazing. You also went to Harvard and you did some work there. Can you tell us about that? Yeah, it was just a, it was a certificate program a couple years ago. Saw an opportunity, again, through AFOA, Canada. They offer a program. It's a certificate program out to Harvard. And it's just a quick, I think it was a two-week program.

It really just touches on the surface of, of, I think it gives you a little glimpse at what Harvard is, you know, like going there and this was another experience sitting there and I was there with another counselor from Skokale, Derek Hansom, and we went together and just getting there and sitting on campus at Harvard is something you, I didn't think I would ever do. or was possible, and even though it was just a quick certificate program, it was the experience and the exposure to that level of instruction was the next, you know, I'd never had that before, and I think it's short, kind of really broad, but just getting that glimpse makes you appreciate what else is out there. And that, again, I think that, you know, it's a bit cliche to always say, oh, anything is possible, you hear that growing up, put your mind to it, you can do it, And here I was that, you know, if I think about these things of, you know, looking at the pyramids or helping in Nandola and then sitting in a classroom in Harvard and it kind of is. You know, if you, you know, those things are out there and they are achievable and they are opportunities that are there for you to kind of grasp on to and take advantage of.

You just, you have to be aware and alive to it when they come and make sure that you do take advantage. Yeah, so what happened when you went there? What was it like? It was, you know, as one of the oldest universities in the U.S., the campus is massive, just being able to walk through and go to all of the different stores, see, you know, their facilities. It's a bit surreal because you're looking at all these students and you think about the names that have come out of Harvard. and done some exceptional things and just to be walking there in that path. I think there was a, I don't even know how to explain it.

It's just that sense of not quite accomplishment because you're not there doing the full program, but, you know, I was, I left there thinking I could do this, right? And then you look at tuition prices and you're like, oh, this is a lot of commitment again. And, you know, it's a long ways to go. But I think just getting that exposure to the in-class instructors, their ability to pull information and extract and to get that type of conversation going amongst the participants in the class was something that I hadn't necessarily seen done that well before

and just this sort of high-level executive type program that you really appreciate the time and effort and the people that they seek out as part of their program. Yeah. Did you have to move down there for a specific amount of time? Yeah, we stayed on campus. We had a specific – we were all in our own – we had our own little room, storm rooms. So it was pretty exciting.

And playoffs were happening, too, for hockey. So we managed to go to one of the Boston Bruins games in the playoffs. which was amazing. Was that against the Canucks? No, it was, I think it was the hurricanes. Oh, okay. That's so amazing to have that experience while you're there. What is it like to run the school at Squayala?

Because just thinking about that, that's so unique that you're able to help shape those components. What are some of the things you face when you're doing that? Oh, school is a whole different experience. The school at Squayala was a part of the, comprehensive community plan. When we were identifying some of the, you know, what was the community looking for and what was important to community education came up. And a lot of, a lot of people had mentioned school. School was definitely passionate of my mom's. And my mom was the band administrator for 20 years. This was sort of an initiative that she felt was

super important. And she had been there and watched a lot of our children kind of go through struggles and challenges in the public school system and felt that, you know, we had an opportunity to open our own school. So the initial concept when we looked at it, we looked at what was taking place in the public school system. We looked at how our children were learning and their, you know, the differences that exist. And so we looked at Montessori training and looked at the differences of hands-on versus the sort of typical instructional following curriculum. And we felt that Montessori aligned much more with indigenous sort of hands-on and interaction than the typical school system offered.

So that's what we started with. It became a bit of a challenge because you're sending all of these teachers for their Montessori training. And obviously in private schools in Montessori, they are charging a lot. and can, you know, easily take some of those teachers. And then just maintaining that same curriculum and that same style of learning. So we've gone to a bit of a hybrid where we're using elements of it, but it's not full Montessori. So challenges that you run into with the school, they're finding the right people. We're in competition, if you look at school teachers in the public school system that go and have a path or they, you know, stay at certain schools for so long,

versus a private school like ours on reserve, we don't get the same applicants, we don't get the same interest, we don't have that big pool of teachers to pull from. So we often have to head hunt or we keep our ears open on people that are available. Finding the right principal was a very difficult challenge. And so it took a while. This last year and this year have been the best years for the school, I would say, and a lot that has to do with finding the right team and having them in place. So we have our head teacher, you know, we call principal head teacher,

Steffi Munshaw, who's just done an amazing job. The school staff have really embraced her in that role and what she's able to do. Her commitment is next to none, and she really sees and wants to, you know, contribute to the success of these kids that are, you know, having other challenges. And so the other part that was difficult in the school is we have a lot of high needs children and we didn't intend to have that many in the school. But, you know, you've got to be mindful because when you have some students that have,

you know, need more time and need more support, then you're looking at your additional staff. So, you know, are the EAs, how many do you have? How many can do the one-on-one? How do you have the proper supports in place? Do we have all of those structures there? And so to get to this point, we do. And I think they've been doing extremely well. We've had our bumps along the way.

There's no doubt about it. But I think we're in a very good place now. Wow. It's just the theme that keeps coming out is you put in so much work into trying to make sure that the relationships are there so that everyone can thrive. What is that like to bring that into every single thing? that we've talked about, it's been about finding the right people and trying to build the relationship if it's something that didn't start out as perfect. That's, that's been so consistent. And it's, it's shown through the quality of everything that you've done is that

that is something you take very seriously. And it, it shows in the results. What is that like to know that that's kind of your secret sauce is, is putting in that type of work? I've never thought about it as being a secret sauce. And, and I don't want to take too much credit on the school side because I, you know, I'd like to give credit where credit is due, and that's my mom in that case. And I was sort of the support for a long time. And as she's stepped into this sort of semi-retirement role, just being a little more connected. I don't know if I've ever, I've never really thought about it that way. I didn't think that in any of these circumstances, I was trying to align partnerships or do anything.

I think it was just things naturally flow in a direction and you have to adjust and make those adjustments along the way and that was the same with the school you if we didn't have the right fit well we need to make those adjustments until we can get that fit and now we're luckily in a good place with that yeah but that's something that I don't think that like regular school district 33 can even compete with because they're trying to do it at scale they have to choose a bunch of teachers and they have to bring in a ton of people that they don't get the filtration process that you got to have with trying to find who exactly who and exactly what things do we need to put in place to make sure these students succeed and we don't like I don't know what the

dividends are going to pay when you have all these children who've grown up with this level of support what they will one day be capable of what are your thoughts on that because we don't know how they're going to develop with this type of support we don't know what the upper levels of a good education could be for a person I think there we walk a really fine line not only in education, but also in community of support and dependency. And I'm always very mindful of that because we work together, you know, as a community, as a staff, as a leadership with chief and council, to try and advocate for providing the proper supports. And in some cases, you know, if you go too far, it becomes the dependency.

So I think about, you know, I would often even have discussions with my mom about the direction and I didn't want it to become a dependency for, you know, students that are struggling in the public school system and then just come and have sort of sit back and this is what we're going to do. And, you know, I've had these conversations starting out not fully understanding. And then once I'm done the conversation, I'm like, okay, I see it. now I get it. And, and, you know, for example, we have a new program that we're just offering where we have hired a new teacher that's going to work individually with students in the grade six to 12 range. So students that aren't going to school, students are that are doing their school from home but don't have the parental support, students that are not comfortable in the public school system. So he's not there as a teacher and we're all.

offering grade 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, he's there to be that place that if a student wants to come and sit in an environment and have a hands-on tutor directly at any given time, they have that ability to come and use that. And, you know, again, I was, you know, my initial response was, okay, are we getting into another additional grades? We're going to have to build a new school, another part of the school. And no, that's not the intent. So once I understood, I was like, okay, that makes sense. And that I think helps shape, you know, when you ask about what is that next level of higher education, we just have to be accepting and understanding that not everybody is going to post-secondary. Not everybody has the same abilities and not everybody, education

comes in so many different forms. So what we might think about is this post-secondary education around degrees, diplomas, you know, graduate degrees. There's other aspects. of education in culture. We have those in the community that have been passed on teachings and teachings and teachings hold that cultural knowledge and spiritual knowledge that can pass that on again. So there's another form of education

that isn't recognized by a, you know, three letters behind your name, but we have to just be understanding that it comes in different forms and accepting that, you know, that's totally fine too. I don't know. I struggle sometimes with the, school system because as an EA when I was working for the school district, I saw it firsthand where

you know, students were getting pushed through. And how do we give and provide the right environment to be able to support students? And I think that's the critical piece for me is the transition out that we've provided all this support and now you're going to a new system that doesn't have it. How do we monitor that? How do we offer something more? What do we do there? And I think that's going to be the next challenge in how, again, not wanting just to be a crutch for the student, but ensuring that they've got everything that they need in order to succeed. Where does that come from for you? Because you obviously know what it's like to probably have not had those level of supports when you were growing up. And now it seems like you're very

careful not to put a person in a position where they don't get exposed to any adversity and then end up being not able to succeed just because they weren't given the opportunity. to have to step up in circumstances where you might not want to want it to step up. What has that, does that play into your mind when you're thinking of these things, of these complexities? I don't know. I, you know, I had, I think back to growing up and I think back to what it was like in a large family.

And I kind of felt like towards the end, my parents were just kind of like, okay, we've raised five kids already and we're getting tired. You know, not that that's what it sort of felt like. I'm not saying that's what it was, but, you know, they were also trying to live their own lives. And when I wasn't clear on direction of where I was going, you know, you don't necessarily have the support, but I didn't know what support I was looking for either.

I didn't understand it. And I think going forward, that's, you know, those things that I talk about have really been instilled in me by my and it's her passion that, you know, in seeing and helping not only our community, she's helped communities all over the Fraser Valley as an advocate, as understanding and, you know, the dynamics and everything. I think that's maybe, you know, helping shape of, you know, if I'm thinking about that thought process and where we're going, she was a big part of that.

Yeah. Yeah, I definitely understand what it's like to grow. up without like support and then be bullied and I had like wild experiences of having knives pulled on me and not knowing what to do but like obviously I wouldn't wish that on another person but those experiences definitely made me who I am and made me understand that sometimes it's up to me and if nobody else is going to do it then I have to I have to act and that's where those mentalities start to develop is from those early ages and so looking forward to raising children for myself, it's like, do I want them to have none of those

experience? Like, I don't want to go all the way where they never face an ounce of adversity because I've made it so easy because some of my best growing were done in those circumstances, but I obviously never going to hire someone to go after my kid to help them grow. So it's trying to find that that balance. What has that been like for you? And can we talk a little bit about your family now and what those dynamics are like? Sure. Oh, I think family for, I mean, I I've, you know, my kids are my world, and I just think of every opportunity that I

necessarily didn't necessarily have growing up. And the difference in how I'm raising my children, I want them to be aware of what's around them. I want them to know that they're always supported. I want them to know that, you know, no matter what, I'm there. I think of the experiences that I've had in my life. experience is going to be able to help them in just simple discussions. So a lot of what I've been exposed to, I think, in my career, like, that I've been able to see, I had no idea existed growing up.

So, you know, you grow up on a reserve and you're somewhat feel, you're a little isolated. It's just the way it is. So I'd never been to Ottawa. I had never been to, you know, these large provincial meetings and large national meetings. And I'd never had thought that I would be asked to ask the prime minister a question in a chief's meeting and those types of things. But through school, if I think about SFU, I think of individuals and the networking that I had people that I had met there, someone like Pam Goldsmith. Jones, who was the former mayor of West Vancouver, then became the MP of, I believe it was Sunshine Coast, and then on to be parliamentary secretary to administer of foreign affairs.

So having that exposure to meet somebody like that, that I never really thought about, you see a, you get a glimpse into a different world, others, Denise Williams, who is the CEO for First Nations Technology Council. another individual that extremely driven creating this organ, you know, helping build this organization to really capitalize and help indigenous communities across the province and understanding, you know, what some are missing as far as connectivity goes and how do you leverage and build relationships with some of these large corporations to Microsofts of the world to, you know, like, again, the go-getters.

and then building relationships with the National Chief, having worked alongside him and then access to his staff or support staff, building relationships with, you know, what I consider a few of the pioneers and in First Nations governance and in progression with Manny Jules of the First Nations Tax Commission, Harold Kala of the First Nations Financial Management Board, Ernie Daniels of the First Nations Financial Finance Authority, Robert Louis of the First Nations Land Advisory Board. All of these people that I've built relationships with over the years and I never thought

I would have access to is something that now I have a glimpse at, you know, these other opportunities or work that's been done. And so when my kids are growing up and we're trying to figure out what they're going to be doing, you know, I can, I feel comfortable to be able to say, you know what, why don't you go talk to so-and-so? Why don't you go talk to so-and-so? Here, let's go for lunch. Built a lot of relationships with lawyers, you know, locally, Vancouver, a lot of the work that we do, we depend on, you know, different law firms. If I look at Eagle Landing, what we had to do around structuring our deal, structuring our partnership arrangements, you know, so relationships with Clark Wilson. If I look at other negotiations that we have with provincial and federal governments,

you know, Miller-Titurley, another firm that has done exceptional work, look at building relationships here locally, you know, partners at Baker Newby, you know, like Jesse Ramsey. And again, it's just others that we work with, M&P, think of, you know, Bev Caswick, Al Andrews, Trevor Pelke, and all of these individuals that are professionals and doing well in their own right have charted their path and are in these arenas. I am comfortable to be able to, you know, say to my kids, look, you want to talk to an accountant? Well, let's go.

And you can ask some questions. I want to talk to a lawyer? Let's go. You want to talk to a judge, let's go. You want to talk to a minister? Let's go. You know, like, suddenly I've got this network of people, CEOs of companies, you know, developers like Eric Van Maren and Bernie Van Maren that are good relationships that. I can leverage and be able to share. So I feel like, you know, that's one element that I didn't

have growing up. And that's one element that I didn't even know existed in all of those different areas. So I think family dynamics and being able to do that and offer that along with, you know, you have your own family values and what's important to you in instilling kids and your children growing up, I think it's stuff that I just never thought about. I think it's stuff that I think people progressively change or recognize and want to do better. And I think that's a, I'm excited for that. You know, I think that's something, there's a few things you can't teach and people have to learn on their own.

But if I can help guide in some way, I'm happy to do that with my kids. That's something that's so unique because most people don't know what it's like to be able to admit you don't know anything about accounting, but be able to talk to somebody who's like an expert in it. And that's something that's so important in order for you to be able to develop your community, to develop anything, is to be able to make connections. Because you may not have them day one, but eventually you're going to have to make some if you want to start to build business. You're going to have to know people and you're going to have to apply for things. And I think that that's so amazing that you're going to be able to pass that on to your children.

And then with those contacts, it's hard to imagine what Squayala and what our community is going to look like, the more that that continues. And now that they have those contacts and what are they going to do in 20 years? And what do you envision kind of the long-term view of Squyala being and like just take a guess on what the future could be because you're setting everything up the best you can. Your children are being connected. And I'm sure the people that are beneath you within Squyala who like assist you in what you're doing, they're learning the ropes. They're probably looking at one day.

I want to be a part of this. I want to continue this work. What is that like to know that you're kind of building people up to take on the reins one day? It's a tough one. I think the ultimate goal, like if I were to look forward, and I think almost every leader would likely say the same thing in communities that we're working towards self-sufficiency. Not only as a community as a whole, but individuals. So, you know, getting to a place of zero unemployment, having everybody working in the community,

not worrying about if you make a decision on, you know, there are so many aspects of decision making that happen that people don't think about. And if you're starting to generate more revenue or, you know, some communities have had large settlements and they're doing distributions to membership, and it's a tough decision because, again, collectively that fiduciary responsibility on the collective benefit of the community, but every individual still has, it is community land. It is, you know, benefits that can go back to the community. So the challenges in that sense are, I'm going a little bit off topic here, but the challenges in that sense are, there are people that are well

established, have, you know, their careers doing well. So if they get some, you know, additional funds or distribution, it's a benefit and it's a bonus. Others that, you know, we have people that have not worked their whole lives and have struggled and our own social assistance and, you know, have had their own challenges and, you know, some of them, not all, but, you know, there's going to be a few that have addiction problems. And so that decision making becomes challenging because you put a large sum of money in the hands of somebody who has,

addiction problems, that's a scary thought and are you making the right decision? So it kind of, the reason why I say that, I go back to this hope of self-sufficiency is so that everybody is standing on their own two feet. We've provided every opportunity for members, you know, I think of all of our policies where we provide support, elder support, so, you know, we'll pay, we'll give them a certain amount a month for food. We'll pay some of their hydro bills. We'll pay, you know, we want them to be comfortable, those on disability, the same thing. And we look at our children in the community and parents, you know, we know sports are expensive. So we pay for registration of sports,

whether it's hockey, soccer, baseball. We pay for, we give them a certain amount for equipment every year. And they can come and access this all year. Education, we know that post-secondary education, you're limited sometimes on the amount of students that you can send and are funded for, well, we'll support those students that we don't have the funding. Tech and trades is not a, those programs are not supported through government funding for First Nations. So we provide that additional support for those students that want to go into tech and trades.

Employment, if somebody gets a new job and they need some boots or a hard hat or a tool belt or whatever, they can come to the band, we'll help them. new mothers that are, you know, single mothers are just parents in general that are, we give them an additional $100 a month for the first two years of baby's life so that they have some extra money for diapers and food. So we provide all of these types of programs and services to the community in hopes that we're helping to lift them up and stand them up. And instead of doing, you know, the types of handouts or distributions, this is a form that we can feel confident in providing back.

And we do additional, we do provide some distribution every year annually and we look at opportunities when we can, but we feel that, you know, that self-sufficiency piece and where we want to get to, I think if we get there, I know it's a dream because there are a lot of issues

that we're still dealing with in communities, but that's where I'd like to see that everything that we do and then our membership is coming back and contributing and being a part of the bigger picture, as you said, to help contribute to even expanding beyond. I don't want to limit it just to being squire out, right? If we have an opportunity to build what we have on reserve, take advantage and maximize those types of revenue streams and then invest in other arenas or other places off reserve, we need to start thinking about sort of long term because we're going to run out of land eventually. Yeah. And that's so true.

And I think that that's so great because that does go straight to the heart of like what this podcast is about. I don't know if you know the artist that I kind of resemble after, which is Big Sean, but what he's from Detroit and they went through a terrible recession with the car industry leaving and they had to restart. And he was focused on trying to bring back the theater and trying to build himself so that people could follow after him and kind of you're paving the way within. our community in my view and showing people there's a way of doing this where we're just talking on the same topic and we're addressing issues. It's not about the politics of it all. Let's just focus on moving forward and building people up. I do think that you're working towards that because it is about educating young people. It is about getting the barriers out of the way because there are people I just had Kelsey John on and his experience in elementary, middle, and high school

was very different and very difficult because of those divides. So if we can start to address, them, we don't know how strong Chilliwack can be when you talk about BC as a whole or Canada as a whole, we can really build that in. And it's so unique because as much as we have like a religious community here, we also have a strong indigenous community. And if we can bring those two together, that's such a story for Canada because there were, there's obviously from Indian residential school, the 60s group, there's some bad blood in the past. And so if we as a community can start to address that. If we can look beyond just Squyala's boundaries and bring people together, so it's just a community thing that's such a different world to live in. And to be able to leave that

legacy for your children and for people to say like, oh, like your dad's Dave Jimmy, like, what do you imagine that being like? Because one day your children are going to be like, well, my dad's David, Jimmy, and that's going to be a big deal. I think it already probably is. I don't know. Not for the accolades, but just for your, the impact and how you've approached people in such a respectful way, not just like your accolades and going to Harvard, but just your community involvement. I don't know. I think if I think about my kids or somebody saying that's your dad, I don't talk a lot

about what I do at home. Like the children, I think there's, there isn't necessarily space for them unless I'll talk about issues. So I don't share any, if there's any success, it's like, no, we don't, we don't talk about it. But if there's a goal in mind, then we'll talk about it. And I love the awareness that kids have these days, understanding of or thinking about impacts or, you know, homelessness or, you know, I watch a lot of, you know, just kind of silly videos with my kids and stuff. And every once in a while, there will be a touching story about somebody helping somebody and, you know, When they register it that quickly, I'm so excited to see because they're getting it at a young age.

I don't know if, I don't know, I don't really think about that type of thing of what I am or who I'm doing, what I'm doing, or that somebody will recognize, you know, for my kids to say that's your dad. I don't, that's just something I don't, isn't important. Yeah. And I think for them is just paving their own way and not paying attention. to what dad did, right? Yeah, that's fair. Well, the other part I wanted to ask you about because you manage like four or five different titles

and that's got to be a lot of work. And you've mentioned in previous discussions that you couldn't do it without your partner. And so I want to hear more about where that started and how that's impacted you and your ability to make all of these relationships and do all of these things. That's got to be a strong partnership

in order for you to be able to move forward. So could you tell us about that? Sure, I think I always talk through the opportunity. So as something comes up and again, I look at an opportunity and I see that there's good work to be done. And I get, you know, asked more and more to participate or to do be a part of, you know, I get asked to be on boards or, excuse me, do different work. And, and I always talk about it with her. You know, we'll sit down and we'll talk about. about why I want to do it.

Is it important? Why is it important to me? And how will that impact our lives and the time commitment and everything else? And once we talk it through and she realizes it's something that's important to me and I care for, then she's supportive of it. And we try to keep our, as much as I can,

a professional life, you know, a little outside. of personal life. And there are times when I get home and I have to talk about issues. I just need to voice them out or I need to have the conversation with her. And so we do, but I don't do it with everything. I learned that really quickly, actually, that if you went home and talked about work all the time, then that's not healthy. But every once in a while when it's something is really heavy and I have to, then we do.

But her, you know, she's watched me grow. I think immensely. I feel like a completely different person than, say, 15 years ago and shaped by all of these experiences and, you know, abilities to participate in different initiatives and in this growth that's taken place. So, you know, she supports, she doesn't always support everything. I should be clear there. Just to, because she has been vocal before.

about, okay, well, do you actually have time to do this? And I start breaking it down and not fully. And so, okay, well, then what is your answer? You know, she'll push back a bit. And it's just to help me think it through. If it's too much of a time commitment, I've had to learn to say no. But at the end of the day, you know, we talk everything through. I get her feedback on it.

if it's going to have an impact, you know, on our family time, which is, which is critical. But she's been such a support for me. I've going, whether from going to school to taking on jobs to the travel that was included in some of the work, you know, doing some of the national work where it was, you know, going to Ottawa once a month. And I was just, you know, at some point, I have these ups and downs and every once. in a while, usually every, I would say, six months to a year, I have a moment where I go, okay, I got to, let's just, you know, take a breather and sit back and reflect on everything that's going on and, and, you know, check my energy levels and check in with myself to make

sure I'm still okay and healthy and, um, in finding the balance, you know, you've got to have the proper balance of, you know, professional family, um, sport, you know, fitness. and health and spiritual, all of those different things that contribute to having the right balance. And she's just been an unbelievable support from day one. And, you know, I'm very lucky to have that, as I know not everybody does. And she's happy to, she's very, I mean, she's extremely caring mother. Or, you know, our children are so lucky and so blessed. and she's always happy to, you know, if I can't make it to a certain point or pick them up at a time.

I always, that's my biggest key in all of this is making sure that I have time for them. And when it starts to have an impact there, then I've got to reevaluate what I'm doing. That's so awesome. And I think that that's so important because I imagine that the opportunities you're being offered, they're probably pretty hard to say no to sometimes. Like you'd love to do them if you had all the time in the world. but at that certain point where your wife can recognize this is going to start to impact if you do accept this, there has to be some sort of line or you're never going to be home.

And sure, the community may be better off, but what are you sacrificing to give that? And I agree with her that there's probably a good line in which you're sacrificing too much of your own personal self in order to further the community goals. And I do think that there needs to be that balance. So that sounds really positive. You mentioned earlier how you met. Could you just go a little bit more into that? Yeah, well, she's originally from Peru, so she's from Lima, Peru, and she moved.

I think she was 11 years old. And I was going to 80 Rundle. I had met her there. She was a year younger. But we didn't really talk with different friend groups. And so all the way through high school, you know, knew each other, but never hung out or anything like that. Fast forward, you know, years and years later, and I was living in Cologne, West Bank in Colonna, building the project out there.

We had run into each other just out at a couple of events, and I asked her friend if I could get her number, and that's, you know, that's sort of how we re-engaged and sort of started talking and it was a it's it's interesting because you you grow up sometimes although you're not in the same friend group and you you know of each other but timing isn't necessarily right or you just you know never had the opportunity and then years later you you connect and you realize that you know it would have been great if we did this earlier but i'm very you know extremely thankful for for where we are today i'm you know she's she's an amazing woman she does uh uh uh just has so much love for our kids and family that I'm very blessed to have her in my life for sure.

That's amazing. What has it been like for her to be able to join in with the indigenous culture and really connect with those things? Because that must be something that like now it's probably super normal. But what was that like? That would be a question for her. I've been careful because I think I never wanted her to feel pushed in. to anything. And I never wanted her to feel that she has to come and attend everything. So, you know, there's a lot of events that I go to because the kids have hockey or the kids are,

you know, daughters at volleyball or other things are going on, that we just can't go to everything together. And whether it's local events in the business community or events in our own community with respect to ceremony. I don't push her in any way. And I'm more mindful of what needs to be taken care of at home with their kids than her participating in any of that. So I think she, you know, an eye-opening experience for sure, different. I think her mom enjoys it, you know, having come from that sort of, because her mom is here

as well, my mother-in-law. And, you know, bringing her to the first couple of. cultural events and she's lots of questions and interest and she loves sort of learning new things right so um but with my wife i i obviously she it is a learning experience because we'd have to explain everything and why we do things the way we do and um and she was always very open-minded about it and and accepting but i mindful of not pushing it too far well that's so positive because you could easily say like this is my culture like if you're going to like if we're going to be together, you have to be a part of all of it.

And you choosing not to allows her the freedom to choose what event she wants to be involved in and plan out her time a little bit differently. So I'm sure that that's a good balance. Can we talk a little bit about Chilliwack? And you've grown up here. You've enjoyed it. What are some of the experiences you've had here and how it's developed over time? Oh, you know, again, like I said earlier, some people,

people want to move away from Chilliwack the moment they can and go to school somewhere else. I was never like that. There were times that I felt like, oh, it would be nice to get out of Chilock. But I've always loved it here. You know, good people, good friends, families here. Seeing the growth of Chiluac has been amazing. I think watching what's taking place. If you look at sort of the Sardis, Vetter, promontory areas, you look at Coltis Lake,

the growth that's taken place there, you look at Chilliwack, how we've seen this evolution of the bustling downtown to then, you know, as other power centers or other locations become a little more prominent, you know, the downtown suffers. And so then having to go through this cycle, like every, every municipality of revitalizing the downtown or trying to figure that out, I think I'm excited to see what's coming next, just driving down there. It looks fantastic. You know, I think there are some challenges that we still are faced with,

and that's the increasing number of homelessness that's taking place in Chilliwacka, but I think that's everywhere. Issues around, you know, I have a fear of some of the other challenging issues, and that's around, you know, addiction and what's taking place with youth, because it feels like it's a different environment than we saw 20 years ago or 30 years ago, like, you know, having children, losing youth to laced drugs, stuff like that, like that, you know, unregulated, I guess, I don't even know how to explain that one, but I think, you know, I went from the really highs of what Chilohaq is,

but I'm being realistic as well about what are some of the challenges that we face in our town. And I think we have a lot of work. There's no easy solution to it. If you look at the homeless situation, there's no easy solution. If you look at the, you know, the failability of drugs to youth, it's always been like that. But how do you tackle it and how do you make sure that I think our responsibility is just the awareness. So we have a responsibility of educating and really promoting that. the impacts and what can happen is a result of going down a certain path.

But overall, I think, you know, I love Chililuag. I always have. I've built great relationships here through sport. I've grown great relationships through networking, through business, through community events, growing up playing soccer and hockey, skateboarding, you know, watching the evolution of skateboarding growing up. as a kid not having skate parks for us and you know now you can just go to a a place and we used to have to go find parking lots and and empty parking lots are freshly paved roads

and that type of thing you look at the outdoor at the growth in the outdoor community is amazing I think you know we have some of the best trail riding and in the in BC I think we You have some of the nicest viewpoints. You look at Hwifaké with Mount Chiam, being able to hike up there and experience that. You look at the Mighty Fraser. There's just so much in Chilohac that I think, even from a, I think it opened a lot of eyes with COVID because people started to look at the outdoor activity here locally and realize, wow, we've got a ton in her backyard. Chiluac Lake, another Coltis Lake, a little, a little too busy. I think in the summer these days and challenges around the water there with respect to the differences and jurisdiction on, you know,

Transport Canada to the Coltis Lake Parks Board to, you know, B.C. Parks. You've got all these different jurisdictions and who's having to manage what there's a challenge going on up there. But overall, the big picture of Chilowak, I think is positive and I think we're going in a great direction. We're only going to see more growth. Yeah. Well, that's so interesting because obviously with your indigenous culture, you get to experience some of the fishing, the hunting. What is that look like to you? What is your perspective?

Because those are things that I want to get involved in, but I don't know what the landscape looks like when somebody looks at, I want to go fishing. I don't know where people run through their mind. This is where you would start or this is where my family started and this is what we like about that hunting. I don't know. I know a lot of people go up to like past Prince George, but I don't know what you. you look for in those types of things? Can you tell us anything about those things? Fishing, so, you know, fishing spots in Stala territory have been passed on from generation to generation. And then it becomes a challenge is you start to run out of spots. And so

those that may have just always fished as a big family, suddenly, you know, the family becomes and bigger and bigger and bigger, and it's only one family that has that spot. There are a number of locations throughout the river that are, you know, some of the highest yielding locations just due to the back eddies that are there and where they can set nets and that sort of things. So that's growing up fishing in Yale, you know, I've kind of over the years have not fished as much and it's, I'm thinking about it more and more because it's important to me to be able to pass out onto my kids, so wanting to re-engage. But fishing in a different sense, I think we've seen these commercial openings for fishing, and then we've seen the food ceremonial

openings for fish as well. And, you know, I'm just going to get enough for the freezer. I don't want to be out there all week. I don't need to take more than I need. And I think, unfortunately, we still have some people out there doing a little bit more than they should be. Part of our teachings was always, you know, you only take what you need and don't take anything more over abundance. So fishing, if you're trying to figure out where to start, I think, you know, it doesn't hurt to even talk to your local, you know, in Swali and asking about who's fishing where or, you know, I've watched my brother try to find new sports. spots along the river. You may find a spot that's great. And then somebody shows up and is like, actually, that's my spot.

And you're kind of like, oh, where do I go? Right. So you really do have to kind of understand the different locations of where people are, the family dynamics. But I'm sure there's always somebody willing to take you out and help you understand a bit more about it. Hunting, you know, when we grew up as kids, before all the debate, happened on the mountain because we have land on Chilwark Mountain. My dad used to

take us hunting up there, but when we didn't see all the houses. You can't do that anymore. And then we would go to different locations. We have family in Anaheim Lake, family in Williams Lake, or in Alkalai Lake. And so we would go and hunt with family there. We used to go to Loon Lake. We'd go up past Prince George. So again, you know, different locations have different you know games or are you looking for around here you're going to find a smaller you know deer than you're going to find as you headed towards princeton and that type of thing and we're not going to see moose around here or elk so you kind of got to determine what you're looking for go get your license your firearms license and um i think hunting is pretty

straightforward if you wanted to get into that there's lots of people willing to take you yeah yeah that's fair um also we have so many different first nations communities and i just wanted to get your experience with them because it's more about their land and where they're placed because there's different reserves and they're all throughout the Fraser Valley and I'm just hoping that we can give listeners a better understanding of where they are because when I first started with my partner I was we would drive through Squalala and we would go to Walmart and then I'd be like well this is this reserve and this is David Jimmy's in charge here and like he's helped shape this And then we go on and we go to Save On and interact there and go, this is Derek Kapp and this is their building and this is.

And so I think that that's so fantastic because it's also what we did with like City Hall. And it's interesting to know those things. And so I'm hoping we could just go through maybe a few within the Fraser Valley just to give people open their eyes to it, I suppose. Sure. I always try to. So Stalo territory is one of the most complicated, I think, in the province or maybe. even across the country. Because if you, when you go back east, there are these large communities, you know,

massive amounts of land, thousands and thousands of acres, large populations, a lot to do with treaty settlement. So you see it's a totally different dynamic there than here. BC being the last province to settle treaties in the country, we have all of these small reserves that were sort of located throughout. And so if you come into the Stala territory, if you're here and. in Chiluac, you have, you just have to look at the Chilquoic tribe. There's seven communities there.

And then we have our neighboring tribe, so the Paloat tribe and the Tate tribe. So I try to explain it, you know, trying to think of an easier way to explain it so people could understand is I would, almost as if a bit of a pyramid, if we start with all of our individual communities on the bottom here, so, you know, Squyla, Swali, Achlitz, Skokail, Yakwikwaius, Chiakton, Squaids, these are forming our, those form, seven form the Chilquayak tribe. So here's the tribe, here's the seven communities that form it. And then you look at the Paloat tribe, and you look at Kuwapult, Squaw, and Chiam, forming the Paloat tribe, and then you look at the Tate tribe. And so you've got these different communities forming.

And then from there, so individual communities, all the reserves, and they're both, within the confines of the reserve boundaries created through, obviously, the Indian Act. The tribes' responsibilities are different because they're looking at traditional territory. So outside of those reserve boundaries, what does the government have to do to engage and consult with First Nations? Well, this is a body that can do that. And then from there, I look at that's where we see the nation. So collectively, years and years ago, before the split between Stala Nation and Stahl of Tribal Council, they were all under one umbrella.

So you would have had all of your Indian Act bands forming the different tribes and then all of them collectively together forming Stalo Nation. So Stollo Nation would have been at that time the sort of everybody in the same room talking about issues, going to their stories of Stalo

going to political meetings. So there's the political chiefs meetings that take place. that Stala would take up like a whole half of the room almost. And if there was a certain decision-making taking place because they're voting on resolutions, well, there's a big sway in the vote with everybody united if they're on the same page. And so, but then, you know, you have the split and people are kind of scattered here and there and not necessarily participating in the provincial politics as much

and just focusing on the work that we have in our individual communities. So I think that's a little bit of an explanation on the makeup of where we are currently and helps sometimes people to understand, okay, now I kind of get it. But it's complicated because you can be on Squayala, drive two minutes down the road and you're on Quokwapult, and then you drive another five minutes down the road and you're on a squaw, and then another five minutes down the road and you're on squay and then another 10 minutes or five, 10 minutes and you're at Atchlets.

So, you know, people passing through wouldn't even know they were onto the next reserve necessarily. Yeah, I completely agree with that. And it's just so much fun to be able to share that with my peers and talk about all of these different things because it really is like a gold mine of information that I can share with them that they just didn't even think of. Like, Atchelitz is hidden in amongst a bunch of like industrial area.

And so there's just, just little secret spot of community that's there that most people would never think of. And I enjoy exposing people to that because it's so, it brings you back into that community of like, you don't even know what's going on in your own town. Like that, that depth is there. Can you tell us some of your favorite small businesses and places that you visit regularly that you really enjoy and maybe tell us a little bit of what you get there or what you enjoy about it just to give people that better understanding of you? Sure. I'm not, um, I'm not the big shopper in the family. So I was actually discussing this with my wife last night and, you know, places like produce gone wild or the mad butcher, she likes the button box.

You know, like she's got her stores that she goes to. I'm more of a, I might go shopping. I used to shop a lot, not so much anymore. And but I think about, I'm more, I guess, a supporter of the local restaurants and stuff like that, right? So I think of, obviously I want to support those that are in our shopping center. I think that's important for me. I look at something like Joe's deli, you know, individual owner, Nick, that has done a great job. And, you know, he's got tons of product on the shelves and, you know, you want to go in and just grab a sandwich or some pasta.

It's a great local spot. The harvest, I always enjoy going to harvest. The meatball sub from Joe's Italian deli is fantastic. and everybody keeps saying that. So I'm glad that you mentioned that. Harvest, you know, I think, again, local business that you can go and support that, you know, are great meals at affordable prices again. What's your favorite thing to get there or something that you usually? It depends.

Usually like the, if they're having a breakfast special, I'll always look for the Benedicts, but they always have kind of creative. The kids like the Homer Simpson donuts. too, quite a bit over there. Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. And they like the grilled cheese in there. Browns, you know, again, it's a, it's a restaurant in our center.

I know after COVID, the impacts of a lot of the restaurants and a lot of the store. So I try to support those, you know, I, a lot of business lunches and meetings at Frankie's. It's just sort of the circle that it, that likes to go and support Raff over there. What else? Beethoven's. There's a wonderful spot to pick up pizza at a cultus. Yes, some of the most delicious pizza I've ever had. Yeah. What else is there out there? Oh, those are a few that I can think of.

Yeah. What are the traditional lands for Squyala? Just now that you're mentioning different areas, I'm just trying to think of, obviously we know of Eagle Landing. Is there any other spots? Yeah, so Eagle Landing. And then if you look, you know, towards Home Depot from the road and the train tracks are there. Just over the other side is our original, like our traditional village where most, that's our community hall is, our longhouse is, and the majority of our homes are in that area. And then we have another subdivision off of Meadowbrook, kind of behind AD Rundle and the old

UFE site. And then we have just under 100 acres on Chilliwack Mountain as well. And then we have collectively held reserves. So one of the collectively held reserves by nine communities is what we call the grass reserve. So located on, um, shoot. Why is it? Prairie Central and Bamford Road. Okay.

Yeah. So we have 160 acres there collectively owned by the seven Chouquayat communities plus, uh, coquapult and, um, squaw. And then we have another collectively held reserve on the other side of the river. So it's called Scumlas Reserve and that's owned by five communities and that's about 1,300 acres just along the riverbed. Wow. I didn't even realize that. Yeah. That's amazing, do you ever get, what would you do there? I've been trying to figure that one out for a while. I've brought, I've brought farmers, developers talked about potential for Aboriginal tourism, being so close on the river. So we're exploring opportunities currently to see if there's something that we could do over there.

Yeah, that is so wild because you do get to kind of shape the community and try and figure out the cool things to put there that would bring in more community. That's absolutely amazing. I think that what you've offered in this podcast has been so important on terms of relationship building, being able to look past some bad decisions or some not so great optics like Chief want to win and be able to look past that and look at relationship building and not get caught up on political divisiveness is something I think we really need right now because I do see a lot of political rhetoric rather than real conversations that actually accomplishes

things. I'm so grateful to have had you on. Is there anything else you'd like to mention? No, I think at the end of the day, first of all, thank you for having me on. I think I'm really trying to be more aware of up-and-coming leadership. And it's just something to provide opportunities for. So I encourage anybody in any of the communities if they've identified somebody that they think has the potential or would benefit from, you know, going to a specific meeting or being able to participate in something to try and encourage them to go or find ways, you know, if there's youth events.

I mean, in COVID, it's a little bit different. But I think that's something that we should be aware of. Even when I met you, like, I remember you coming in. And I thought, oh, here's a, you know, he's going to law school, bright young, you know, bright young individual who is looking to learn more about community, interested in how to help, how to help in, in my mind, I was like, oh, how do I get him to come and work for me kind of thing, right? And, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, um, and, and, um,

and, and, and, and, um, and, you know, you're, you know, you know, you know, you know, a little more responsibility when they're ready. Yeah. I absolutely agree with that. And I think, just giving them the opportunity to, to, to have the chance. to try it something was something that helped me develop over the years. It's when people gave me an opportunity that maybe I didn't really deserve, but gave me that chance to step up and try and figure things out. I had Len from the Royal Hotel on, and he was one of those people who gave me the chance when I'm working at Quiznos,

like I'm putting in like half amount of work, but he gave me this opportunity, and I wanted to rise to the occasion because it was given to me. I knew in myself, I didn't feel like I deserved it, so that requires me to step up. and be the person who deserves it. And I think that that's exactly what you're doing is giving people the opportunity to shine on their own

and not having that focus of it's all about me and my brand and how do I want to come across. It's about building other people up. And that's exactly why I wanted to have you specifically on. So it's been such a pleasure. We've almost done three hours. And so it's been awesome to talk to you and really get your perspective because I do think you better know by now.

You are incredibly well respected by the community. and we are so grateful to have you here making such a difference and opening our eyes more and more to how we can bridge divides. Well, thank you very much, Aaron. I appreciate all of your words and the work that you're doing here. So it's been an honor for me to be here today. Awesome. Well, thank you. Thank you.