Nuanced. - 142. Bingx: Confronting Demons and Forging Artistic Identity Through Music

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

Bingx shares his raw and harrowing journey to musical success with host Aaron Pete. From overcoming personal struggles with Tourette's, OCD, and addiction, to transforming these challenges into artistic strength. Bingx takes us on a walkthrough of his audio engineering techniques and shares key insights on the complexities of the music industry.Seattle-born rapper and vocalist Bingx, also known as Chanler Hendrickson, melds his love for hip-hop's lyrical finesse with the deep emotions of grunge in his music, drawing influence from a diverse range of artists including 50 Cent and Third Eye Blind. Bingx has over 100,000 monthly listeners on Spotify and over 27,000 subscribers on YouTube.Send us a textThe "What's Going On?" PodcastThink casual, relatable discussions like you'd overhear in a barbershop....Listen on: Apple Podcasts   SpotifySupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

Welcome back to another episode of The Bigger Than Me podcast. Here is your host, Aaron. As you all know, I have had the privilege of speaking with Vinjay about his music and his album, High Frequency. Today, I get to speak with the other tag team of that amazing album. And we dive into his philosophy, mindset, the trials and tribulations he's overcome, and how he approaches making music with so many different artists as a producer. My guest today is Binks. Binks, I'm so excited to be sitting down with you.

I've been looking forward to this interview ever since I turned on your album, High Frequency with Vinjay. Would you mind please introducing yourself for people who haven't had the privilege of getting to know your amazing music? Yeah, my name's Chan, but I go by the stage name Binks, that's B-I-N-G-X. I've been making music for 18 years. I love it. I produce it, mix it, master it, engineer, songwrite, develop, vocal, vocal,

coach whatever whatever needs to be done to get to a finish line on a project i usually just pick up the reins and figure it out you're the man i get sweaty hands anytime i'm nervous for an interview and my hands are all sweaty so i'm ready for this one are we able to start with something that makes you somewhat unique you actually struggle with Tourette's you've you've experienced this and what i find most beautiful is when you're sharing your passion that goes away are you able to share that story with people um so yeah i got i had my first tics um from turets when i was five um and then i started developing like ocd so i started having little rituals so ocd and torets are not the best thing to have together because sometimes i have a tick and then my ocd will be a ritual to do the take a certain

amount of times which is you know kind of an unfortunate pairing but it did make me unique i will say um growing up with that wasn't hard at all i just i was i like this girl name uh Tessa when I was when I was like 12 or 13 and we was in choir together so like they had it in a half moon like this the teacher up here and then you know you got the sopranos the altos the tenors and the baritones and I was over here with the tenors and the sparranos were over here and I had this really gross ticked from my terrace where I like I like I like opened my mouth my tongue came out and I was like trying to fuck with the muscles in my neck and I was ticking not really realizing it and I look over the girl that I like and she she was making this face looking to me or looking at her friends pointing to me and they was all laughing. And I was like, that was the moment. For me, it was like, I'm not, I'm not being ugly. Like, y'all, maybe I got some ugly, you know, tics that I do, but I'm not being ugly to

anybody. That's what was ugly right there. That shit's ugly. And so, like, that was the moment for me that I decided. I was like, fuck it. You know, I'm different. I don't give fuck. Like, if you got a problem with me, you know, maybe making a noise or clearing my throat or

making a weird face or doing some twitch, then you was going to find a reason. to like me anyways. Absolutely. One of your early influences, you had, it sounds like Rock was one of your early influences from interviews I've listened to. Then you moved into finding Tech Nine. Would you mind sharing a little bit of your process of finding rap and lyricism in that process? Yeah, absolutely.

So I was, I was, at 15 years old, I'd only heard, like, I hadn't really heard much rap. I'd heard, you know, hi, my name is, and, you know, maybe some Tupac and some. stuff with people driving. I didn't, I didn't listen to that shit because I was raised on rock music. My pop's raised me on like cake and the police and ACBC and shit like that. Like, sheep go to heaven, goats go to hell.

Like, that's what I was raised on. So, but, you know, I've always had his mind for, you know, I'm really good in numbers and words and, you know, things of that nature. Quick, quick thinking, rhyming words and all that. I was 16 and I was hanging out in the trailer park

with my boy James and, you know, we had We had a whole bunch of boys that went there and, you know, did drugs, all the stupid shit. You're not supposed to be doing. And one of them played me this Tech 9 song, and it was called Breathe. And I remember, it was the first time I'd ever heard some shit like that. Because, you know, I'm used to the slow, rock, big choruses and shit. And tech was on there going, like, he was using his breaths and as part of the inflections. And, like, it was even, he was like, I don't want to be the one to get a millimeter in the guy.

I want to be the one to hit him with another middle. Caught up in a little sick and a minute when I said that, you remember that? Hell, motherfucking, yeah. And he was like, he was using all these new things. And I was like, what is this? It was like, crack to me. I was like, how is he, you know, he's harmonizing with his raps. And it was, I was blown away.

So I started memorizing the songs and, you know, flash forward like a year maybe. And I was able to recite all of his lyrics. And, you know, one thing about rappers is when they rap, they're not just saying lyrics. It's the way that they say the lyrics. It's the inflections, the intonation. And, you know, just the way that they, that they speak. in their charisma behind it. So I was able to master that via listening to tech, like, master his inflections on a record. So I would like actually wrap all of the ways that he was

shaping the vows and all that. And my buddy was like, you know, you're pretty good at that shit. You ever thought about writing your own music? And I was like, oh, that's a good idea. I love that. When did you realize that walking in when you start doing this, that all of the challenges you face outside your life fade away, particularly the Tourette's, that you're able to basically put on your hero's cape and deliver and have no limitations? I guess for me, it's always just been the escape for me, the outlet. Because I didn't have, without anger growing up, I didn't have much left.

So, you know, I was a drug addict in 14. I was smoking synthetic heroin off of 10, like 14 years old. I was addicted to drugs all the way up. So I joined the military right before I turned 18, and I got out the military, got addicted to cocaine, did that shit, and did that for years. But what I always had was any, you know, I've always been a big feeler. I've always had a big heart. Like I feel things very deeply and they affect me, you know, like I can have a thought and it can fuck up my whole day. I can have a thought and it can make my whole day because my feelings are very powerful.

And so kind of learning that, attaching that, aligning that deep feeling, that deep rooted feelings that I have with an outlet. and realizing that that is why I was able to make it through the day. That's why things didn't stress me out as much anymore. That's why my anxiety would go away is because I was writing about it and able to voice this, you know, big depth of a ball of emotion inside of me and able to get it out and then hear it when I, when I play it back. That was really when it kind of like kicked in for me. Just, you know, it happened gradually.

But then once I was able to put that to words and realize that's what was happening, then it even got better because then I'm like oh I can do this intention that's incredible may I ask and this is a vulnerable

question so if you don't want to answer I totally understand but what brought you down that path of struggling with drug use oh man there was a lot of things

I mean I was I was like 14 years old and my mom was addicted to purposes she got She got a real fucked up. She got a surgery, the omabone, the thing that your wrist swivels on, it like sits like this and then your wrist swiveles on it.

She had malpractice, practice upon her at the hospital, and they cut off the tip of her omel bone, so it fused her wrist together. So they put her on pain mess for it. It's like, that's like a permanent thing that doesn't ever come back. And I started, but she, you know, like I was, I would go and sell her prescription. In the beginning of the month, I would sell like half of her prescription to make her some money. And then we go through like two weeks. then she'd run out of her pills, and then we'd go spend more money than we netted in sales to, like, buy the fucking pills back, basically, when she was going through withdrawals.

So I've been around that since I was, like, a, you know, since I was young. And, you know, it was like, it was basically, like, my parents, like, painted a picture that were, like, put up the frame, and it was like, all I had to do was color inside the box. You know what I'm saying? Right. My pops, you know, struggles with alcohol a bit, but him and I've got. really, really close over the last few years since I got sober

and, you know, he lost a bunch of weight. He's been doing better with the alcohol and stuff too. It's never been, alcohol has never been one of those things with him that took over his life. It was more like his daily escape, maybe. It's what, you know, he raised

four kids. So he's like, at this point, you know what I mean? I'm good. I raised four kids. I did it. But yeah, with my mom, that was that was the introduction, I guess, into the drug gangs and you know or drug game and you know 14 15 16 17 I was going from trap house to trap house and selling drugs buying drugs stealing robbing doing all the shit you're not supposed to be doing where is the relationship out with your mother if you don't mind

me asking um uh shit that's a lot um my I went through a custody battle 56,000 dollar custody battle two and a half years ago, it started two and a half years ago. And the courts gave me emergency full custody, which is like temporary full custody. And I have my son for a year. And how I got that is my mom came to me and told me that her and my baby's mom, my baby mama, had been using drugs together. And that's how the courts gave it to me because I had an eyewitness. And then via my mom coming out and writing that on paper and telling everybody that came out.

and the whole family found out. And then my mom jumped, fell out of my second story window the next day, broke her back and paralyzed herself. Out the window of my son's room while my son was in there. And, you know, the cop showed up and took her to the hospital. She's, like, learned how to walk again now. And, you know, but I think it's still tough for her. That relationship's hard for me.

I give her, I create like a safe environment for me to be, like, me to interact with to where you know I can I can enable her to feel loved but not enable her to have access I guess yeah but I love her you know what I love my parents you get what you get you know

a lot of people don't even have parents absolutely thank you for being willing to share that and what was your decision to go into the military how did that come about I was I was living in a trap house up in Everett it's like a real druggie town north of Seattle and um like my roommate at the time was selling a bunch of them 80 milligram oxy cottons so I could you know I could smoke snort and pop them all day

as much as I wanted and my homie Brendan McAllister came back from the military and when he left he was like he's like six three I think six two six three and he was super overweight he wouldn't look you in the eyes when he was talking to you and wasn't confident at all and he called me because he got home for the military and he called me he was like hey Chan what are you doing I want to come see you and I'm like oh yeah this is where I'm at gave my address well he pulled up on his brand new RX6 fucking motorcycle and hopped off. He's all in shape and he's walking with confidence. Look at me in my eyes. He's like, hey, Chan, how you

doing? I was like, whatever the fuck you just got a dose of? I want that. That's what I want. That's the first decision I ever made for myself. So he introduced me to his recruiter the next day. And the guy said, are you on drugs? And I said, yeah. And he said, I'll tell you what. If you piss clean for me in a month, I'll let you in.

And I got, from fighting when I was a kid, this is all titanium. So, like, this is all titanium. and they uh they let they got that recruiter was like i'll let you a i'll let you in regardless like i'll not like hide the paperwork but i won't bring attention to the fact that you know you got a big plate in your head so i got to go do that that was fun hold on your the top of your head is titanium yeah this is all titanium right what how did that happen you said fighting how did that what i got my head bashed in with a mag light like a cop flashlight from a police officer no from

I was fighting, long story short, I was at war tour, and somebody was wrong, was stealing from our campsite, and he was stealing the purse of one of the girls that was there. She came up, was like, hey, that's my purse. He turned around and knocked her to the ground, hit her in a face. So then I beat him up, and then he went and grabbed his brother, and they came back while I was sleeping, drug me out of my tent and tried to kill me in the middle of the night. And then all my friends chased him off, and then, yeah, I had, like, frontal lobe damage, two dense in my skull, seven breaks and fractures in the orbit of my eye,

smashed nasal column. How did you process something like that happening to you? I took it on the chin and kept going. I mean, I was already using drugs at that point, so they just gave me a bunch of free drugs. I was like, fuck it, you know? Because you got to have, for any type of head injury like that, you got to get a bunch of pain medication.

So I just kept rocking and rolling, you know, that was it. It was like. So you've lived like a few lives in this. short span of time just after entering the military coming back like you've been through a lot in your life like you have a lot of world understanding of the challenges the ups and downs individuals go through just from that period of your life very much so i mean i've after that it got even crazier i mean i i went to i was the face of caviar gold the weed brand i was the face of their company for like two years and they took me to jamaica you know i went out nationwide tours

I had my face on the side of a big tour bus. Shout out to Scott McKinley and Mike Brunson. They're a great couple of guys. I just, I had a big ego at the time, and I was addicted to Coke. So I threw that away. And it was like, how did that opportunity come about from everything else that was going on in your world? I did a show with a, I did a show at a weed dispensary. And Scott McKinley was there bringing his products there, doing something, doing something there.

And he was like, I really like you. He was like, I want to introduce you to somebody. I was like, all right, cool. So I came over to the crib, a month later, two months later, whatever it was. We built a relationship at that point. And Mike Brunson walked in, and he took one look at me and he heard my music. And he's like, I'm like, you're a fucking star, dude. He's like, I'm a fucking, I'm going to make you a star.

And I was like, bet. And then two weeks after that, I was in a limo in L.A. Go into like a private residence down in downtown L.A. And I met like Jerry Heller and kicked it with him for the night. got addicted to cocaine, dating a fucking billionaire's daughter. I was going crazy. It wasn't until I was 26, almost 27, when I finally put the drugs down and got clean and started deciding that I wanted to be a, you know, I want to be a good dad and I wanted to be a, I wanted to be a musician and actual musician, not somebody that just rapped and walked out of the room afterwards, like he was hot sauce. You know what I'm saying?

We may be getting a bit of ahead of ourselves. When did you start to commit yourself truly to music and to the creation of it? I went through this rat beef eight years ago in the city of Seattle. And as it was going on, we all recorded at the same studio. And the studio told me that it wasn't safe for me to record there anymore. And that was the point when I started on the journey to get where I'm at now. I went and got a laptop about Logic Pro, and I locked myself all of my free time. Anytime I wasn't working or jugging or making plays or anything, I was all of my free time.

I was in the house learning how to engineer and mix and master. And I did that shit for like three years. And when I finally came out, like of the crib and like I started bringing artists through to come like feature on my songs and they would come and see what I would do recording them and engineering and mixing their songs and they were like how much do you charge an hour and I was like I just do this for myself and they're like I'd pay like 40 or $50 an hour to come work with you and have you record my stuff and that was like a clip for me it was like oh shit and then I started listening to the stuff that these studios were doing and I was like my shit

sounds way better like I'm good at this I'm really good at this and then it was like a whole new thing Then I dove in and started studying other people and learning how to produce. And now I can pretty much do anything anybody asked me to do when it comes to audio. Seems like a major moment that the studio said that it wasn't safe for you to work there anymore. Then you go off and you start creating and you do all these things. Why wasn't it safe for you to work there anymore? I was just the rat beef. There was like, I was at a point in time where I'd let my ego get ahead of me.

And there was an artist in the town. and he had made a song and another song and like said an artist's name in the song and then that artist had stood up for himself in a song and then he like responded again and it just rubbed me the wrong way which is none of my fucking business

nowadays that shit wouldn't I wouldn't bat an eye at it but I was young and I was egotistical and you know what I'm saying I was like fresh on the scene and I was trying to make a name for myself and shit so I put my I put my two cents in on it on a song

and the artist didn't like that very much but so he responded with a song and then one of his homies responded with a song and it was like it was all gangster oriented in a sense of like one of the songs was called like domestic violence and it was like a

gangster mentality is what I'm saying basically like I was going to get killed you know lyrics were like pull up on that boy in traffic and clapping with the nine and stuff like that so you know then now I'm at a point where you know I'm driving around the city with my son and I'm like damn I might get shot

it you know and so this studio obviously knows these artists they probably recorded the songs there so they were like now like you can't record anymore it's not safe because we're not trying to get the spot shot at yeah that's one of the challenges I would say that not just rappers but primarily rappers go through because there's something alluring to the public about beefs about issues about disagreements you see how well like Eminem and MGK's videos did when they were going against to each other. You see when people get into these disagreements, that pulls us in. I know when I watch interesting podcast, it will be heated argument between this person and this person on this

topic and then you're like, oh, what's going on? What are they disagreeing on? And that almost pulls us in, which can be so dangerous for the individuals involved. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, everybody just needs mind on my own fucking business at the end of the day. You know what I mean? Like, I don't, I don't speak on that. You know, one thing I realize about myself, even just working, I work in a public studio. I work with a lot of artists. They come in and out. And, you know, I hear a lot of negative hatred talk when people come in, people talking shit about it, other artists and these. And I realize, you know, the more I get into the scene, like, I don't really share opinions like that. I'm not out here.

You know, that's one thing that that rat beef taught me was like, mind your fucking business. So I keep my opinions to myself. If I don't like something, I just don't like it. It doesn't mean I have to go and tell you that I don't like it. You know, I don't have to go out here and trash somebody's name or whatever. It takes a lot. You'd have to really do something personal to me for me to speak on you. without you being there, if that makes sense.

Yeah. So, like, but I realize that that is the generation. That's what people do. You know, they'll, like, right now I could go make a, I could go make a professional-looking video on a green screen, hire somebody to wear a news suit, put NBC, Fox News, whatever, in the fucking bottom left corner and say, Joe Biden has HIV. Test became public today, and it would spread like wildfire. Yeah.

And it's fake. But people would see it, and then they reiterate it, and then people come watch the video, and then now what? Everybody knows that Joe Biden has HIV when he doesn't. You know, well, I mean, I don't know, but just an example. But that's how hatred works. You know what I'm saying? Like people share a negative opinion.

Oh, I fucking hate this. People are bonding over mutual hatred. That's why relationships are fragile and it's just a shitty, it's a shitty time that we live in in that regard. Okay. I do have some actual questions that I want to get to, but you've spoken about something that really interests me. One of the challenges I find podcasters face is something called our audience capture. And it's where we start seeing what gets the views, and then we just start chasing that rather than why we got into the game. And for rappers, I think that there's something similar to that, where you start to make songs and you start to realize you hit a certain point, you talk about certain things, you're going to get views on that.

You're going to keep hitting it. But it's not what nourishes your soul. It's not what actually means something to you. It's what's checking a box for other people, and it might not be what they need. It might be what they like because they can tune in and they get kind of a reaction, but it's not something meaningful and full of depth. And one thing that you've mentioned is if Drake rapped one of your songs, it would get a Grammy. And I couldn't agree with you more. But so often rappers go to what will go viral rather than what is deep and meaningful and impactful.

How do you make sure that you find that balance? Because I'm sure you can look at a rapper and say, if you make these type of five songs, you're going to do really well. But you're going to be empty inside. And it's going to be nothing to you because it's not your voice. You're just repeating what five other people have said 10,000 million other times. Yeah. I kind of, I look at intentions. So if I make a song about, for instance, me carrying a pistol around and bucking in the people, what am I inviting into my life?

I'm inviting people to come check me. I'm inviting people to come and test me. I'm inviting that type of energy. If I make a song that's true in a sense of, even if that is true, if I'm really doing that, I'm still inviting that. It doesn't mean that I have to talk about it if that's how I live my life. Does that make sense? so like if I'm like for instance if I'm dealing drugs I'm not going to go make a song and talk about how much drugs I sell because then everybody's going to fucking know how much drugs I sell you know what I'm saying that's that's that's just stupid to me it makes no sense you're tattling on yourself but you're also inviting that energy in so frequencies are again I have frequency on my knuckles but frequencies are the you know life they're the universe they're everything that we touch see here breathe smell every everything. It's all frequencies. It's all everything. And it's, and, and, and you, you vibrate at a certain

frequency. And you attract certain frequencies when you vibrate a certain frequency. So if I'm making, you know, if I put out there in the world that I want to work at, you know, this type, one type of establishment and I go apply at 10 of those types of establishment, I'm putting that frequency out there that I want to work there. And eventually, somebody's going to fucking hire me. That's a very small, closed cut, fucking concise analogy. But that's the same for like, being true to yourself. And people have different sides of themselves. So, you know, like this thing going on in the industry right now with D1, he's calling out all these artists for, you know, you made it out of the hood. You made it out from this, this gangster mentality, this, this, you know, kill or be

killed, flight of flight response on a 24 hour basis. You made it out of this area of your life and now you're famous, but yet you still talk about that. And yet you're driving, you're living in a $4.2 million house and you drive a $1.5 million car. And you know what I mean? Like you don't You don't have to do any of those things anymore. Why are you still talking about? And, you know, the answer is, yeah, because it sells. So I agree with you there. But there's multiple facets to everybody.

And, like, maybe that is a part of your life. So, you know, what do you want to attract? If those are the type of fans that you want to have and that's the life that you want to live, then go ahead, man. It's your life, you know? I don't have to do that. For me, I write my songs. I listen to them back and I think, what is the intention behind this?

Like, what frequencies am I putting out there right now when I, when I released the song. And there's sometimes I'll say some shit in a song that I'm guilty of it too. You know, I don't really call my girl a bitch, right? Like, I'll be like, I might be joking around playful with her. Be like, be like, be like, shut up, bitch. You know what I'm saying? Or whatever, you know what I'm saying?

Like that, but I'm not like, yeah, this is my bitch. Like, I don't talk like that. But I've said that in a song, you know, like. And so, you know, I'm guilty of it too. And, you know, I think it's all just learning and growing and trying to figure out what the return is on what you invest in because if you're investing solid true energy and you're only being yourself well it's probably a lot more boring than this grandiose kind of flashy little bit exaggerated version of you but you know when is it when does it really

become a lie because if I you know what I mean by that is when you're putting all this out into the world to get heard, you know, like I could go change the world, right? I could do that. With my mentality, the way that I think the pain and the trauma and the PTSD that I have and the way that I've made it through it and the way that I conquer my face my demons every day, I can help a lot of people. But let's say I try for 15 years and I never get a big platform. And I get, you know, I maybe help 100 people. For a lot of people, that's not enough. So they're like, well, let me compromise this X, Y, and Z so I can get the eyes on me. So now I can make this. statements and live the life that I want to live, you know? And then when does it change? You know,

when does it shift into like, well, damn, now I'm making money. So I kind of want to just low-key keep this up. And it's, it's hard. And at the bottom of it all, it's all just attention and it's, and it's greed-based, you know, people don't want to, people do want a Lamborghini, but they'd rather know, they'd rather you know that they have a Lamborghini. Does that make sense? That absolutely makes sense. And I think that that's so true. So, you know, it's, for me, it's just, I listen to the songs after I write them and I record them and I asked myself, I'm like, damn, like, did I really reverberate with this? Does this make me feel good inside? Is this, is this what I'm actually feeling? And a lot of times I'll go change like two lines or a word or be like, no, I wasn't being

completely truthful there. Let me switch this line and let me change this punch line. And then I'll listen back again. I'm like, all right, that's him right there. And then sometimes, you know, I get it right the first try. So you've done a lot of interviews on the song I'm about to ask you about. So I apologize in advance that you've done the interviews on the song and you've been asked a gambit of questions on it. But I do think that they missed one of the most important points of the song. Your song, it's a big deal, has been out for some time now and you've done interviews on it. And people have asked questions. But one question I cannot believe they ask. As a host, I often go, what am I bringing to the table? What value am I bringing?

But the one question, I listened to like three or four different interviews and they all asked about the song, but they didn't ask about the underlying philosophy of this song that I think is so absolutely crucial that people need to hear. This should be automatically downloaded onto people's alarm systems when they wake up in the morning, is this song, because it's exactly what you need to hear when you're starting out your day. What are you going to do with your life? Realize that it's only 80 years. Realize that most people let their life fly by, and they don't do anything with it, and they do a nine to five to get by, and they never realize what their true potential was, whatever that potential might look like, and they completely miss out.

And then they wonder what the heck happened. And I think it's so important. My partner showed me the song, and it was so motivational and so inspirational that I was like, this every one of my friends needs to hear this song to understand where they're at in their life and where they could be. Because I have friends out there that are kind of like, I'm kind of chasing my passion, but I'm kind of putting in 10% and getting 10% back and wondering why the world isn't praising me.

They're not putting in that full energy. And in this song, it was all facts. It was all exactly what you need to hear. And as somebody who grew up without a father, it was something that I wish a father had have told me. It was all of that information about how to live a good life. Would you mind please telling our listeners about it's a big deal? I was actually, I was working, I was laying carpet when I wrote that song.

I was walking around a job site in between, like, in between work and I was writing at work. But for me, it was just, you know, one day you wake up and you're either doing what you love or you're not, and you realize it. And, you know, I've had many of those moments in my life where I wake up and, you know, I'll randomly become grateful. And I'm just like, you know, I'll thank God. I'm like, dude, fucking, hey, I know life sucks a lot sometimes, but thanks. You know, this shit's awesome. Like a little conversation like that. And for me to have moments like that, I had to have had music in my life.

So I found music early and shaped me as a soul. as a, you know, I've got a lot of depth to the way I think and feel and I, you know, I don't play in the shallow end. I'm not in the kiddie pool with my emotions, with my thought processes, any of that. I'm always in the deep end. I'm ready to dive in. I want to, I want to figure it out. I want to figure out how things tick. I want to figure out how I tick. And I feel like that's, that's what's lost a lot with people. That's, that's, that's the disconnect is they're not ready to dive in. They're too scared to look at themselves. They're too scared to ask themselves, the hard questions

ask themselves am I happy is this what I want to be doing are these the people that I should spend time around am I in shape am I the person that I want to be am I no you're not

because you're not happy so the only way to change that is just to go out and change it and do it now because whether you're 19 or 49 you've still got time left you know what I'm saying like yeah maybe you had a shitty run for 30 years okay cool what's next

you're still breathing You know what I'm saying? Wake up and get to it. If you change 1% every day for 100 days, you're a whole new person. You know what I'm saying? 100%. Yeah, exactly. That's what it is.

Yeah, exactly 100%. But I'm saying, you know, like you're building a wall and you're thinking about this process of like, damn, I've got to build this shit 10 feet high and 20 feet long for this fucking customer. No, how do you do it? Brick by break, right? Just focus on the next brick. Like the most important step a man can take is the next one.

It's always the next one. You know, for all of us. You know, shout out to Brana Sanderson for that one. But it's true. Like, literally, the most important step that anybody can take is the next one. Who cares what you do yesterday? Who cares what you did it 10 minutes ago? Yeah, you fucking screamed with somebody.

You call him a bitch. You punched somebody. You got arrested. Whatever. Whatever the fuck it is that just happened? Cool. What's next? What are you going to do now?

Because now that you know that you don't want to be that person or do these things or say these things, what are you going to do now? And how are you going to apply yourself to do that? Well, I'm going to start by right now. I'm going to not call this girl a bitch when I'm talking to her. I'm going to start right now by not losing my temper when somebody makes me angry. I'm not going to snap in my kid.

I'm not going to drive drunk. Whatever the fuck it is. You know what I'm saying? That's the first step that I can take. Actions. I couldn't agree more. I actually worked in the court system for five years, working with people who have assaulted their partners,

committed crimes, stolen, in, done all types of things. And the thing that I always found that we forgot to ask people is not just the little thing. Are you going to go to counseling? Are you going to attend your next meeting? Are you going to do this, that another thing? But it was more about where do you want to be in 20 years? And we stop asking to people at a certain point.

What is your true potential? At like 30 years old, I interviewed Jayzac and he has a line in there where he's like, when do we stop believing in people that they could make a change in their life, that they could improve things? We stop having that faith after like 30. 30 years old, that people could go on and do amazing things. And I think that that's so tragic and exactly what your song speaks to, which I find is missing in our culture. Like, whoever is supposed to tell us these things, whether it's teachers, professors, educators, family members,

loved ones, they're not telling us that anymore. And Vin Jay talks about this, like, rappers are the new prophets. And I think that that's true in that this is the last place people can go to to hear that type of advice. Yeah, I would say the entertainment industry more than just rappers because you know you have you have people like you do podcasts that people that do motivational podcasts motivational speakers they have business motivational speakers they have emotional counseling like there's a lot of places you can go and get this too but it's all in some form of you know group session or entertainment or some some type of thing like that you can go get the information or you know you can just pick up a book you know a lot of people don't

read. I don't know why. I read a lot. I've read hundreds and hundreds of books. I've definitely read over a thousand books. I don't know how many books. But, and I've got 350 books on my phone, I've read, I don't even know how many times. I've read some of them five or six times. And I read a lot. I read a lot. I learn a lot from books. Is there a stand-out book to you? Is there one that stands out in your mind? Um, you know, believe it or not, fantasy fiction is probably my favorite series is, probably the Furies of Calderon by Jim Butcher

or the Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson. You just get to watch. They're epic, so you get to grow with the characters. You know, they develop over time. They started at like, you know, 15 or 20 years old. And by the end book, they're like 40 or whatever. You know, that's an epic. But, you know, getting, you fall in love with these characters

and you watch them get put into compromise positions to where they have to break their morals to move forward. But instead of doing that, because that's what society expects of them. They change the fucking rules. They, you know what I'm saying? They step up and they pass their barriers

and they break through their ceilings and they conquer their demons and you get to see how deep those demons go just reading the book. And you fall in love with these characters' backstories and how much trauma they've had. And, you know, obviously it's fantasy, but at the same time,

you're still watching somebody grow. And a lot of mentalities that, you know, like Brandon Sanderson is a phenomenal writer. I think he's the best writer of our generation. And if you just watch the way that he paints the world and you and you just picture it and you listen to how he describes these characters, pains

and losses and traumas and how they affect their decisions and how how much dirt the world's thrown on them but yet they still have made something of themselves. Like all of those things are information. Every book I read is information from that character from this character, from this city, how this, you know, how this city runs and whether

it's a magical city or it's just a regular fucking city like there's still people with morals and things that they, you know, you know what I'm saying? Like it's still character building. And when it's character building as far as books, it's also building your character as a human being because you get to ask yourself these questions that nobody's asked you before. And that's all from just reading. You can read whatever you want. You want to read fucking crime novels? Cool. Go read crime novels. You can, you can, if it strikes your mind

that way, guess what? Now you know how to be analytical. Now you know how to break things down and observe small details. Boom. You just learn that from reading a fucking book. You know what saying like that's that's that's a lot that people that's one big thing that a lot of people don't do is read and and you know I don't know whether you do audio book or if you can't read just do the you know in a sense of whether you don't know how or you're just not the best reader do audiobook but like get information stop stop people need to stop doing this they feed they read all the the flashy shallow information on here and then that's all the knowledge they have you're absolutely right Jordan Peterson has this line

that when you read a book or when you watch a movie you are every single one of the characters and you can start to understand those characters immediately we are ingrained and and taught and like born to do that as a process but we do have to get to your album high frequency with vinjay i've been dying to ask you some questions about it first how did that album come about because i had the privilege of speaking with vin jay and i just from your perspective how did that album come about? He um I can't remember the we linked over the internet

and we hopped on FaceTime and you know he was like he was like shooting a music video he had all the fucking skeleton fucking hanging on and shit and I was like what up bro we were fucking chopping it up and you know we kept in touch and I can't remember exactly how it panned out but at one point we started talking about making an album and he was like

fucking I'm just going to come to Seattle then He goes, I want somebody that can bring me out of my box and make me, make me uncomfortable. And I was like, well, I'm good for that. So fucking come on now. He fucking flew out and you stay with me, I believe, for five nights and six days. He left on a six day. And we made like 20, 20 songs or something like that, 18 or 20 songs in that week. And it was just a blast, man.

We, you know, I took some shrooms a couple of nights while he was there and, you know, just like a little bit. And, you know, it was feeling the energy in the room. and we were talking, getting to know each other. We were discovering each other musically and humanely while we were discovering what his album wanted to sound like. And, man, it was a blast. I really enjoy working with Vinja. He's a, you know, he's a very deep thinker as well

and phenomenal talent. So it just probably on the fourth day, we realized like, oh, we got something special here. Like, this is dope. This is really dope. And then the song, Human or High Frequency, the one that's on YouTube with the music video,

that happened after he left. Really? Yeah, that was the, I think it's the title track. But yeah, that happened after he left. I woke up one day and I played that baseline on my keyboard

and I started writing that. I just got done listening to some like Andre 3000 or some shit. And I was like, hella inspired. So I made that bassline. I just started rapping on it. And you know, and I got like,

I got halfway through the song. And I was like, I'm going to send this event. I sent it to Vin, and he was like, yeah, I got you. And he hopped on that, and then that ended up being the, that was, I think it was a final track we added to the album. Yeah. One of the parts that really inspires me is we have kind of metrics for rap.

We'll say you're a lyricist. We'll say that you're a mumble rapper. We have kind of like boxes we'll put people in, but the depth of how you think and the two of you put together, the depths that you go to, it's like, I'll go back to that and be like, I never looked at that verse from this perspective. I'm going through this new thing, and now I'm starting to see how that verse kind interacts with this new problem that I'm facing, that there's an unmet measure that we need to have, which is the depth of an album or depth of a song that can impact a person where you can continue, go back there, and it nourishes you because it gives you that deeper understanding of how to look at people and how to process things and not to take things personally and to make sure you're living a good life, all of these really valuable tools in that whole album that I still go back to and go, this is fresh. and it's it's a few years old in terms of when it was made, but it's still so relevant and nothing has aged about the importance of the information within each song.

Yeah. Absolutely. What was the development process for that song, like for all of those songs? What was the process to get to that depth with another person? Because you might be able to have those thoughts and he has those thoughts, but I'm just wondering, how do you two get onto that same high frequency and be able to meet each other there because you build off of each other's ideas in each song.

Yeah, no, I mean, it was basically like, I do scats. Do you know what a scat is? Vinjay started to describe it to me, but if you could give a refresher. Yeah, here's an example. So I'll play this little guitar thing right here. And I'll, this is just a little loop, but I'll put it in the session and make it like three minutes long,

like three minutes of a loop. And then I'll just press record and I'll go in the booth and I'll do something like this. I'm not up up and down Don't tell me on the town I got to tell me what it's out for And touching around I got done on the ground

And it's all I'm looking out for I'm not really saying much But I'm trying to find a phonetic structure Of the song Like the vowels that feel good Like you can have, for instance You could have a yeah On a song

That's three notes on the piano And go And it sounds terrible Even it's the same notes on the piano But it's different vowel Because the vowel The phonetic resonance of the vowel doesn't match the key of the song and the instruments.

So that's what I'm looking for when I do that and I'll record that. And I'm looking for pockets and schemes and just, you know, to just mumble basically with some vowels thrown in. And then I get the whole song sometimes like that. And then I'll just write to those, I'll write to the words to the Scats. And I think you taught Vin Jvis on that first experience, right? Like he was still developing the skill set.

Yeah, no, for sure. We went in there and we don't win. And he had expressed to me that he wanted to do more melodic stuff, more singing stuff. So I was like, just fucking dive in, bro. And, you know, we got there and started doing the scat.

So he would do a scat on a song. I would do a scat on a song. And then, you know, we'd follow his vision on a song. We'd follow my vision on a song. And, you know, I'll sing a hook. And he's like, let me do this verse real quick. And then I'm like, damn, you went,

you went really in depth in that verse. Let me, when I had my verse, let me kind of follow, or let me do the alternate perspective or whatever, you know, just feeding off each other, feeding off each other. And when you have two people that separately make really good music most of the time when you get together you're going to make good music

most of the time yeah so you know different processes different different perceptions and the way that we perceive things and how we how we think the song should go you know i might go up on a melody when he goes down and you know for me that's great pause but uh i think that the most important part of the whole collaborating thing is just letting each other live with with each other's energy, like, like, the scatting part of it. Like, let me go in there and scat something that you're going to write to, and then you go in there and scat something that I'm going to write to. Let me live with your energy for a bit,

because you're going to do a different pocket cadence, rhythm, scale, than I'm going to do because your history and your influences are different than mine. There are so many life lessons in that. The first one that I'm thinking of is, I've heard this line, and it's in a song, people are energy vampires, and that's a line from Russ. And the idea is that you can be around people who drag you down constantly and you come out, you wake up out of bed and you're ready to go and you're ready to make everybody happy and the sun is shining and then people suck that energy right out of you. We often don't recognize that the opposite is true that you can get into a room with somebody you can vibe with and they're going to build off of your energy in a positive way. And listening to an interview with Jeff Bezos and Lex Friedman, he talks about this idea that when you have.

have an idea, don't be around people who are immediately going to shoot it down. Let that idea breathe and be around people who are going to say, okay, like, that's the beginning of an idea. What about if we build here and if we build there and you remain open-minded and you don't immediately go, that's stupid, that sucks, that's wrong, that's incorrect. I would do it this way. You're wrong. When you start to let those people in, it can be a challenge. You work with so many different artists. How do you figure out how to flow with them in a healthy way that's going to bring about the best type of music? I adapt really well.

So for me, like, I pay attention to do a lot of things that I, a lot of times I don't even know what I'm doing, but like, for instance, I'll meet an artist and I hang out with them for 30 or 40 minutes and I'll subconsciously start using the slang or lingo that they're saying because I understand that that makes them feel comfortable, like, innately. And I'll catch myself doing it after they leave. I'm like, damn, I really sleep into that one. um just i don't know adapting to my environment and when i work with artists i just i just test the waters first you know i'll say i'll say something that's maybe a little contradictory or a little

blunt and see how they respond to it and if they respond well to blunt energy then i can just be completely open and blunt with them sometimes they're defensive a lot of times they're defensive and sensitive about their opinions and whatnot so i have to i have to constructively tell them to change what they did and figure out a way to maneuver around their traumas and their PTSDs and their triggers and whatnot. But everybody has greatness in them, so, you know, all I get to do is find it.

The other person that I have to ask about, you did Champion with Echo, and that was such a motivational song. I have that song going anytime I'm on a run, anytime I'm at the gym. Would you mind talking about making that song? Man, I got that, I found this weird, scent on a on splice and i like i was like oh i like the melody but i don't like it so i altered it and pitched it way down and it was like rum-whom and i was like oh that's fire so i wrote the verse to it and all i had was a verse on there forever and then um one day i woke up

and i was like this needs like rock drums so i started producing the real live drums on the hook and i was like yo this sounds this is like an anthem like for champions and then i freestown that hook and like one in one take i was like i was like i got the soul of a champion I was like, oh, that's him right there. That's the one. That's the one. And then Echo and I were talking about potentially having me produce some songs for him. So I made some beats for him.

And then I was like, hey, man, I got a couple of songs laying around to have open verses. Like, you want me to send you those and see if you like him? And I send him champion. He was like, I'll fuck this up. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's do this one. I'm like, all right, I bet. So I had that shit sitting around for probably a year and a half.

Can I just ask about the personal experience of, You've talked about this in an interview you did with Nashville unsigned, which is just keeping that love of the passion, like loving what you're doing. And what is it like to make a song, to make a beat, to write that verse, and to be like, man, I did that. Like, I actually made that and I'm actually proud of it. And I actually want people to hear that because it's something I created that's really good. Like, what do you mean? Like, what's it like? Yeah, like, are you able to sit with that?

Like some rappers I've interviewed, they're like, no, it's hard to sit with that. on to the next song. I need to make a new single. I need to keep going. And some people are able to sit back and really process that they are proud of who they are as a creator. Oh, yeah. I mean, I have songs that I listen to to this day. I made a long time ago that, you know, like still make me cry. Right. And, you know, I have songs that I go to when I'm feeling happy or when I'm having a fucked up day or anything like that and really process it. And, you know, sometimes you can admire who you are. Like, I'll admire who I was the day that I wrote that song and the strength of my mentality that day because I'm lacking that on the day that

I'm listening to it and I'm searching for it. I'm trying to find the strength to make it through the day. But on the day that I wrote that song, I felt powerful and, you know, I felt in control and, you know, living where, living in a, in a place of determination and drive instead of doubt and uncertainty. You know what I'm saying? So you can admire, that's one thing that we can do as artists. We can admire the person that wrote that song, even though it was us. I can admire the version of myself that I was that day, and I can take power and strength from that. I can admire the person that just processed this fucking breakup, and instead of trashing her and doing this, or instead of losing their mind or isolating themselves from the world, they're going to go tell everybody how they're feeling and how close they were to breaking and all, you know, whatever it is, you can go back there and do that.

So I do very much value living with the music afterwards. But I also, on the other side, I've got seven hard drives with over 2,000 songs on it that nobody's ever heard. So, you know, there's that too. That is wild. Are you able to tour us around and give us an understanding of how you make music? Yeah. Well, I gave you a little bit of it already, but basically for me, I sit down either fresh without listening to any music beforehand, and I'll have like some type of energy that day. It'll be sad.

I want a minor scale, minor key guitar or piano. Some days I'm somber. I want the same thing, but I want it, you know, I want it a little bit slower so I can sing a ballad on it. Other days, I'm having a great fucking day. You know, I just got a big paycheck or I just got to spend the day with my son or whatever the fuck it is. And I'm like, I need some upbeat, you know, whatever it is.

I'll take whatever I'm feeling and I'll try and capture that. Because I believe that music is just captured energy. So, you know, sometimes you can make a song. when you're feeling really happy and make this happy pop song or whatever it is and then go try and recut the vocals the next day because you didn't like parts and you can't do it because the energy's gone it doesn't sound the same doesn't feel the same um so the process for me is just anytime that i feel anything i know it sounds like something there are a lot of artists that i know whether they're photographers rappers or just creators in general that they start to burn themselves out and they start

to lose that love of the game, they start to disconnect. Are you just able to give a little bit of advice from your years of experience and your ability to work with so many different creators? What advice or what recommendations would you have for them on their journey? When people fall in love with something, they fall in love with the ability that they attained and are attaining to do whatever it is that they love. You're not just falling in love with making music. If you love, you have a passion for making music, you have a passion for growing in music.

for learning how to get better and making that next song and people start chasing songs or they chase that feeling of what they got for making that one song or whatever it is. People need to allow themselves to live and if you have Riders Block or whatever,

all I'd say is don't think about it like Riders Block. Think about it like you just need to apply yourself to a new skill set within the same family tree of whatever it is. So for me, if I don't feel like writing a song this day, if I don't want to make a rap song, I'll make a singing song. If I don't feel like making any songs, I'll just make a beat.

If I don't feel like making a beat, I'll just mix a song. I'll just work on music. If I don't want to do any of that, I'll just play the piano for a little bit. I'm going to go do something because music makes me happy. Music is what I love. So if the passion is just music in general, and it doesn't have to be a specific part of the music, yeah, there's our favorite parts of said, you know, whatever it is. Some people love performing on stage, but they hate going on tour because they're away from their family for two months, right?

But you can't have one without the other. So the end of the day, you know what I mean? It's the music that you love. So I would say just pick up a new skill set. Pick it up. If you edit videos and you're fucking or you shoot videos and you edit them and you're getting, you know, worn out or whatever, pick up a new skill set in there. Pick up, learn a new way of editing, learn a new way of shooting videos, learn that, you know, shoot, try learning how to shoot slow-mo film. try, try, whatever it is.

Try, try attaining a new skill within there that you have to apply yourself to get good at it. Because that's, that's the part that makes us passionate. It's that, it's that climb up the ladder where we're getting better and we can see the progress. And we know that that's, that next step is coming. That next level is coming. That's what gives us the determination and drive to continue to go. If you just did something and you always sucked at it, you know what I mean? You're probably not going to want to do it for very long.

or you might just love to do it even though you suck at it and you're not trying to get better at it you just do it because you love it that's cool too but you're probably not losing passion for something like that because if you suck at it

you're still doing it you know Binks I have to call you an absolute inspiration and I think more importantly to me you are a philosopher I find that you have a really strong mindset

and a deep understanding of things and I find that really admirable I can't thank you enough for being willing to do this I think your journey from what you've shared today I'm sure that there's so much more your journey is also so inspirational and motivational to people

I saw on Instagram that you just got engaged and I have to wish you a congratulations on that I'm so happy for you to share the story from where you started in this interview to where you are today you were making such a positive impact inspiring people like myself with your music and with your creative abilities

I am so grateful to have been able to speak with you today yeah man thanks for having me on the show bro it's been a real professional and it's been awesome. I liked all the questions you asked. It was nice. You did some homework too, which was awesome. I'm glad to be a part of the show, man.

Let me know when it comes out and whatnot so I can share it and do all the, you know, the social media stuff. Sounds good. I owe Vinj, big one for this one because this is just exceeded expectations in my wildest dreams. Go team, man. Well, shit, man. I hope you have a great rest of your day. I'm about to, I got a client pulling up here in like two minutes to the studio.

But thanks again for having me on the show. And yeah, man, you got my number. Hit me up sometime. Sounds good. Enjoy. Best of luck tonight. Thank you again. And yes, I will share this with you once it's out.

All right, brother. Have a good night. You too.