Nuanced. - 152. Vin Jay: How to Craft Impactful Music That Motivates & Inspires Listeners

Episode Date: April 8, 2024

Vin Jay offers guidance on crafting music that deeply connects with audiences, advising fellow artists on strategic releases, the significance of emotional authenticity in songs, and how producing high-quality music can significantly elevate an artist's career. Vin Jay, a dynamic hip-hop artist, captivates audiences with his raw storytelling and impactful lyrics, rising to fame with his hit song "Mumble Rapper vs. Lyricist," a testament to his strategic and resonant approach to music.Send us a textThe "What's Going On?" PodcastThink casual, relatable discussions like you'd overhear in a barbershop....Listen on: Apple Podcasts   SpotifySupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

Welcome back to another episode of The Bigger Than Me podcast. Here is your host, Aaron P. I am speaking with a man who fuels my runs with motivation, who inspires his listeners with insightful lyrics. My guest today is the one, the only, Vin, Jay. One of my favorite people to chop it up with, to catch up with, Vin, Jay, would you mind briefly reminding people who you are? Yep, I can do that. So for those who don't know me, my name is Vin Jay. I am a hip hop artist, mainly.

I branch out into a few genres from time to time, but mainly hip hop. Independent artists, I try to make music that has an impact. And yeah, I say that pretty much sums it up. It's been a while since we caught up, since your last album that you draw, your last EP. What have you been up to? So, I've been making a lot of music. I'd say the biggest difference from right now to my past is just the bar that's been set for myself.

I'm in here almost every day trying to create records, but what I allow to come out now is much, much less than when it used to be. So I've been releasing the songs that I think are good enough to come out, for sure, but maybe not life-changing or super impactful, but they're definitely sonically good enough to come out. And I like them. I think they're a good display of skill set and things. things of that nature. And I've been holding on to all of the ones that I'm like, these are

out of control. These need to like be pushed for real, for real. So that's where I'm at. I'm coming to the end phases of holding on to five to six really, really good songs that are going to have full-blown videos. They have a narrative. There are some really impressive artists on them, things of that nature. So everything is kind of coming to a head right now in terms of the good music being released and tour starting. So, a lot of big changes interesting when you walk into the when you start creating do you go into it with whatever mood you're in and start creating the songs that are kind of what are vibing with how you're feeling that day yeah for sure i've tried many many times and i tried last week to do

this to force right over a certain type of beat because someone wants me to get on that beat or or um i feel like i need one of those records because it's been a while and it never works out It always comes out really generic because there's zero inspiration behind it. The words aren't charged with emotion or energy. So I veered away from writing for the sake of writing. Now, yeah, now you have to come into the studio very open. You can come in with an idea of whatever you want. You can try to impose your will on the song.

It's not going to work. But to give you an example of how I operate now, my producer buddy of mine Epidemics sent me a beat the other day and he's like yo you should check this out it's this type of beat whatever so I pull it up and it's just it's a very good beat but it was

a very normal dark boom bap record where it's just like heavy drums it's got that dark energy behind it so I was like okay let me just try to rap to this so what I do first is I crank the auto tune all the way up so I just start doing some mumbling scats that are

melodic and I catch some really catchy melodies that way. But what happened is when I was doing those scats, I'm just like, and then I heard when I was listening back to the scats, one of them sounded like the word America. And I was like, oh, it's game over now. So now this record that I just sat down with

to a rap to turned into this very political record, speaking on the state of the world currently and all, you know, that's a whole rabbit hole in itself. But just because I was mom crumbling over a hook, it came to me. The door opened. But there's no way I could have sat down and been like, it's time to write about this. Interesting. Do you ever worry about leaning into those emotions? Like maybe it's a really dark song about mental health or the struggles you're facing. And then there's like, you could go too far. You could go down that route. Is there any fear around that? No. I have a fear of the exact opposite of the words, the listener playing the song.

and they feel nothing because there is nothing to it. That is my biggest fear and that's what prevents me from putting out 90% of the songs I make. Okay. It could be extremely lyrical

and impressive and whatever, but if there's no emotion in my voice because it's just impressive for the sake of being impressive, I just can't play a record that sounds so uninspired. So, no, the more human chords

I can, you know, touch with the words, the better, straight up. And if it pisses some people off, fuck them. Is there any, like, impact over the next few days if you go down a rabbit hole and start, think maybe it connects with some part of your life and you're talking about something you went through. And then now you're really digging into the meaning of it. Maybe you're sharpening up the lyrics. And now you're kind of stewing over this darkness that you experienced or this heavy moment in your life, that that kind of carries over with you for a week or

for however long it takes to make that song. Um, maybe a little bit. It does. I don't let it leave the studio too much um um oh man how is it going to word this excuse my train of thoughts everywhere

today I apologize but um no it's uh it'll stick with me but in a good way like I want to live in that emotion big big big time

so I could translate it I don't I don't oh now I remember what I was going to to say. I love when I'm writing and it forces me to feel heavily a certain way. And I think that's because, you know, I'm blessed enough to have achieved certain things in my life and I'm blessed enough to have the accolades I do and the financial blessings from what I do. So life can regular things, and I don't want this to sound jaded, but a lot of times the regular day-to-day can feel very mundane. And that is like way more damaging to me in my mental health than feeling anything

really hard, whether it's sad, happy, anger, da-da-da, in terms of creating a song. I love when I get wrapped up and completely consumed by that emotion because when I go day in and day out of a regimented lifestyle and lack any intense feeling, that shit is what sucks way worse than getting wrapped up in any emotion. Fascinating. Maybe you can help me process this. One of the rappers that really I admire was Juice World. And one of the thoughts that I kind of had about his whole process was that he had to go right near a cliff and basically like dangle over that cliff. And you can say in his songs he talks about like dying and overdosing on drugs and the risk of that to his life and that he doesn't know if he's going to survive. And like I think he was really right there.

Like, I actually think he went to that cliff and he was like, oh, my gosh, like, I am right here. And then we as listeners go like, wow, what is it like to be there? And I kind of resonate with that. And you're saying the big emotion that I feel and you're verbalizing and you're walking us through it. But I think that artists have to go there. And I think there's a genuine risk that to share the depths of that emotion, you have to teeter on the edge of your own mental health safety and your own physical and well-being safety. And I just feel terrible that he actually did pass away. And he foresaw his own death in his music.

And that's terrifying. And so when I hear people leaning into these emotions, part of me is like, we're so grateful as listeners to have that. But on the flip side, it's like, where you go is where so few people are able to sometimes come back from. Do you process that at all or think about those things? Oh, yeah.

It's our job as artists, man, we're vessels. And we can come. about, including myself, we can complain about the ultra highs and ultra lows that we get because of it, but I wouldn't trade it for anything, man. Like, the ability to be able to be that, like, conduit for that feeling for others and the effect that that has on them, far surpasses whatever major lows and major highs come from this shit. But, yes, you need to be engulfed in it for real. Otherwise, it's going to sound uninspired.

I've heard songs from other artists and it could be on topics as aggressive as drug addiction of things of that nature but if they're just doing it to make a song about drug addiction you could hear the difference man they are saying very generic things about sadness and being in a dark place and you know woe is me

but when someone is there bro you can hear it like in the word choice in the pain in their voice you could hear the tone of their voice and I think for true art I mean, you could do whatever you want and your song could pop, even if you make it for the sake of making the song. But to really create art that's impactful, you do have to go there. And I was talking to my buddy about this a few weeks ago. So I have a song I wrote back in 2021, okay?

And it's a really good song. But when I wrote it, the recording kind of got messed up, okay? So I had to re-record it. but the verse is very sad and there's some pain in the voice and all that. And thank God, I'm mentally in a good place right now. So when I go to re-record it, I've tried so many times to re-record it. And it's just not believable because I have to like fake sadness because I'm not in that place anymore. But it's so good that I want the song to come out.

But I told my buddy, we were having a conversation about it. So I would have to put myself in a intentionally in a dark place. I would have to be genuinely upset about something to get this song to where I want it to be and I can't force bad life events to happen nor do I want to so what I said to him

I've been off alcohol for eight plus months now and I said to him like the tortured artist man the self-inflicted damage we do for our art because if I really wanted this song to work out I would probably have to break my sobriety

and then like feel really fucked up about it and then I could like you would hear it in the record but it's a choice man and it's not always the right choice to dive into that. I think it makes for incredible art but you also were humans at the same time so we are riding

this fine line of like artist and human being who's trying to feel peace. With somebody who really understands the depths of these emotions and, like, is able to sit with them in a different way. What is your biggest fear? That's a big question.

What is my biggest fear? It's so unrelated. And fear is such a loaded word, too, you know? Like, I have a fear of public speaking, but I'm going on tour. I don't give a shit. I'm going to run headfirst into it. I don't care. So, so fear.

is such a weird word because I think as humans we adapt to anything regardless of how bad it is I don't know I don't know okay okay yeah my biggest fear is probably losing someone I care about right

in a way that's out of my control I guess but I think that's everyone's biggest fear it's like probably you know what I take that back because it's not that specific thing it's the principle underneath it And that is a feeling of helplessness. That is my biggest fear.

Interesting. Can you talk to me about the process that you've been through? To me, you're one of these really unique artists because it's not just that, like, you come out with great songs. I feel like you're working on this underlying philosophy around your life, around meaning, around making an impact bigger than yourself, around contributing that gives us. voice to great music like um i've heard it from from comedians like joe rogan that say you need to live life then you need to go on the stage and share that life you can't just stay on tour forever and just keep coming out with with new jokes you have to go live in the real world and then bring the humor of that world back on stage and it's the same for music you can't just sit in and so you've been

developing this philosophy what has that journey been like that really informs your music yeah um i'll be honest Personally, I'm a bit of a recluse, but I've felt negative effects from that, so I've veered from that. I think so often we think, like, oh, people suck, so I'm going to isolate myself. But that's a very short-term fix, and it has negative consequences on your mental health. So I've learned not to do that. With that being said, it's, I agree with you that it is you can't pour from an empty cup. You need to, you got to fill it before you can share with others again.

The way I do it, man, like I said, I live a pretty regimented lifestyle. My day in, day out looks very, very, very similar from one day to the next until I feel very mundane. And then I'm like, it used to be like, let's go get drunk. Now I just tell my girl, like, let's go get crispy cream and eat all the donuts. So, I guess for me, it's experiences with new experiences with people that I care about is kind of what I've been leaning into. It doesn't have to be anything crazy. like my mom came out here a few weeks ago me her my buddy and my wife went to like an escape room for the first time just anything that stimulates the senses the mind and it's new right i think

new is the name of the game regardless of what it is because because our day in and day out could be so redundant that just get a little spark back in you for life to be excited about being alive again i think that's kind of how i go about it okay we've got to dive into some of the music now you came out, you came on the show and then I believe right after you came out of the song No Excuses and it was such a good song and I missed the opportunity

so we have to go all the way back and we have to talk about that one we were chatting before this about the anterior mid-singulate cortex and how fascinating that is and I'm just curious as to how that song came about and again some of the people

that informed that mindset yeah so that's an interesting one, actually. It's got a cool backstory. So me, futuristic, Anakin, Oswin Benjamin, who else was there? A bunch of artists, okay? We rented a beautiful, beautiful mansion in Sedona for like a three to five day artist retreat we did. And so we're in this beautiful, beautiful house with the intention of making music over the next five days. Maybe we get on each other's songs, whatever, but just, again, new, new place. The window had a gigantic mountain range outside of it, just out of control. So everyone was very inspired. Now, I am listening to songs that

have good vibes on them. It feels kind of like summertime or just like, you know, a good time with friends. And again, brick wall after brick wall after brick wall. I think I was just forcing the environment onto the songs, and it just wasn't right. But what ended up happening, right? So the next morning, I'm on the balcony, we're smoking hookah. And George, my manager, comes up to me. He's like, yo, this dude, Tantu, send me some beats. Let me know if you mess with any of them.

So he has his phone next to my ear. I was like, nope, nope. He plays the third or fourth when I was like, send me that. So he sends me no excuses. So now after two days I'm not being able to write anything. I lock myself in my room and for five hours

am pacing across this room writing because they pulled this energy out of me of like man like I'm the shit that's what it felt like and and also it's when I get in those spaces of being unable to write

self-doubt washes over you right like oh my God I've been trying to write for two days I can't do shit is something wrong with me do I have writers block am I not talent So when you finally catch this wave of motivational energy to write the record, you ride that thing. So I wrote for hours on end, wrote the whole thing there, and then recorded it when I got back to the crib back at my house.

And yeah, so it went from not being able to write to writing like a three-minute no-hook song just about like breaking barriers and pushing through adversity. Which really links up nicely with the idea of the anterior mid-singulate cortex, which I'm getting very comfortable rolling off my tongue now. There's practice there. Which is this idea of like you can develop grit. Like there's a you mentioned David Goggins and running like David Goggins and that idea that you're going to get up. And he talks about how he stares at his shoes before he goes for a run and goes like, I don't want to do this. And then he goes, shut up.

You're going to do this and you're going to get it done. And I'm just curious as to your lay of the land. You do see out into the world, and it seems like we're so soft. Like, when I tell people all the things that I'm managing, they're like, wow, you're really busy. And it's like, why aren't you? Like, there's so much life to live here. Like, nobody's standing in your way. The whole idea of a free country is you can go get after it.

You can max out your day with stuff to do. You can schedule it so it works for you. Jordan Peterson does a great job of saying, like, you can make sure to include the fun things you want to do in a day. Your schedule isn't, like, restricting you to boring meetings. You can fill it up with the things you actually want to do. And it just seems like, well, like, we want four-day work weeks. We want less work. We want to lay around more.

We want a beach in Mexico where we don't have to do anything. And it's like, but where are you making an impact? Where are you influencing people? Where are you growing things to be better for others? Like, that's where I feel like you do such a good job of that song of being like, go get after it. There's no one stopping you. And there's these other examples in the world that you can look to to grow. And I find that so inspirational, but sort of missing from like the culture.

So I think because everyone, I don't say everyone, most people, let's say work in jobs that they don't necessarily love, they think they want to do nothing, right? Like, oh, I can't wait for the weekend so I could just not do this, right? So I could just chill the fuck out. But I say, I think I was talking to my dad about it. I was like, everyone thinks they want to do nothing until they have the ability to do nothing. And then you'll realize how bad doing nothing sucks. Sitting and doing nothing, what is it, uh, idle hands of the devil's playground.

Is that the saying? Yeah. It's so freaking true because the days I don't do this anymore, but in the past when I would spend it a whole day, two days doing nothing, you do not feel good. And I think that's because you lack purpose. There is no purpose in doing nothing. No one says you have to go after these things to make money or have accolades or, or this stature of success.

But it's purpose-driven. You waking up and doing nothing for yourself or for anybody else, whether that's you did some push-ups, congratulations, you did something for yourself, or you did something that help someone else. Like, you have this joy within you now because your life has some sense of meaning, right? So I think everyone misinterprets when they're getting yelled that by David Goggins, that like, that like, well, that's, I don't want to do that. I don't want to be ripped. I don't want to be rich. Fair. You don't need to be.

but action will make you feel a lot better than inaction to put it very simply I couldn't agree more and they just kind of prove out the test case right like he's willing to go do that so you know that it's possible so you know that you have no excuses that you can go and chase

whatever you want to do and go succeed but I'm just wondering when you make a song like that is there any ability to process the fact that that is fuel the people's fire, that I take it into the gym, that other people take it out on a run, and they're able to run longer, move faster, and that you're putting that energy into the world, that hopefully all those listeners are able to rise to the occasion in their own lives, and you're able to contribute. Like, I get so nervous for interviews with you because I'm like, that's your contribution. Like, that's a huge contribution to give to the world, to encourage

them to reach their full potential. So I wouldn't say I go in with that, specific intention when I create, it's more so just a beautiful byproduct of creating what I can only create, which is impactful shit. And I don't say that on some, like, I only know how to make music that helps people. It's not what I mean. I mean, like, again, going back to what I said earlier, is I have no reasoning. It lacks purpose to put out songs for the sake of making songs. So as selfish as it sounds, I I make these songs because I want to feel something or I need to purge an energy. And it just so happens that when you're that true to yourself and the intention is that pure, it resonates with people.

So I love that it can do that for people and motivate them. But I can't motivate people if I'm not motivated. So it's just these really raw emotions of whether it's motivating, I can motivate you or whether I'm sad and I make a sad song, reflecting, I can make you feel not alone. But at the end of the day, it's just, it's got to come from a very, very real place. Love that it impacts people in whatever fashion, but that cannot be my target from the jump. Otherwise, it's just misguided. Interesting.

Do you find that it's a challenge at all? Because you do make these amazing records. And you've kind of also talked about that you don't always feel that way. That, like, in that moment, you can feel like you're the man and you can. killed it and you destroyed that beat, but then other days, you're just a normal person and you might not have those same emotions. Is it at all strange to be in that juxtaposition sometimes where you drop a song where you're like, I'm the man, I'm killing it, I'm taking over the world. And then the next song is like, I don't know if I'm shit. Like, I don't know where

I'm going. Like, I don't know what's going on. Like, is that, is that at all a journey? Yeah, it's a journey, bro. I didn't have these high highs and low lows until I really popped off because I guess just like getting thrown into the water with the sharks and it's like learn how to swim and make your music career pop. It's a spiritual journey on its own teaching me like how to maneuver

but yeah man like the the highs and lows are crazy because you do get a high when you make something that powerful. You just use your voice to create sound waves that when they hit someone else is going to change the way they're vibrating and that is a high

and when you play back the recording you know you just did that before you even release a song because it's doing it to you when you click play right you're like holy shit this is making me feel nuts so that high is what you chase the problem is it is a high so when you're in the studio for seven days after that it doesn't matter that you just made potentially one of the biggest songs of your career the the song that you're the happiest with it doesn't matter because now you've went seven days without being able to achieve it again and that doesn't sound like much but you just did it and you want it again so yeah the highs and lows are are vast and something i struggle with is i derive so much

purpose from it that when it's been a while since i've done that i feel low like lower than usual and then it's like i have to like parent myself and be like all right go it's clearly not working right now go live some life go do something else that makes you happy i know this is like up there for you but you got you can't just sit here and and beat your head against the wall because you're not able to get it right away so it is that it's it's chasing that high again but also realizing like when it's time to back off because you're doing more harm than good to yourself yeah because i can imagine being around the futuristic and and the anikins like you want you want to show out you want to show up and you want to give all that energy and then to have those

those mental struggles of like, like, what's going on? Why aren't I hitting? And what's, what can I do differently or what do I need to change? That can all start to get into your head. And it reminds me of, I don't know if you know the fighter, Dustin Porriere, but he talked about the exact same thing with fighting. He did a great interview with Ariel Hawani, where he was like, man, after my last fight, I was like, am I the guy anymore? Like, he was like, everything I was a UFC fighter and the guy that showed up and the diamond and I'm willing to fight. And I have the grit and the most determination and everybody respects me, but I just lost my last fight. I got knocked out by Justin Geichi. And so I didn't know if I was that guy anymore. And he said he got the lowest he's ever been in his life after that fight. And yet he has everybody's respect. Like he lost a fair fight, but like nobody loses their respect for his grit and his determination as a consequence. But his whole mindset, he wasn't thinking of himself as a husband, as a father, as a family. Like he lost all of that because of that moment. And he had to work. his way back. And it seems like when you're chasing something so big, like becoming a great

artist or becoming a great UFC fighter, when you're chasing that big goal, sometimes you can lose yourself to that and forget that you're all of these other things. Yeah. And for me personally, because that's all I could speak on, I guess, is that's what it takes. You have to, there's such stiff competition in these things right like to even make a living as a ufc fighter or a rapper or fill in the blank the like it's there's not many right that make a very good living so so uh you it requires all of you and and you'll yield the results from that too but it's hidden miss it's like you to get those highs that you're seeking after you are going to need to be able to get punched in the face

and keep going no pun intended because we're just talking about UFC but you need to like take some hard losses because you're you're in the wild wild west you're not playing it safe you're not doing the traditional route so you want that everyone has this you want this well then you're going to need to experience down here when they only experience down here it's the fucking tradeoff. It's the yin and yang. You want higher highs. You get lower lows. That's the name of

the game. And if you can accept that, then you can push forward and say this is the other side of the coin of what I asked for. That is brilliant. You then come out with super superhuman with Anakin and I loved your first team up because you're passing that beat back and forth. Did you come up with that when you all went out together or was that a separate song? For superhuman? Yeah. Yeah, so very similar, very similar approach to Superhuman as we did for Sedona. Basically, my buddy made me a beat. He actually didn't even make it for me. He just always sends me snippets of the beats he's making, and I was like, send that to me right now.

So he sent me Superhuman, I recorded my verse, and I actually, wow, I'm just remembering this. So Superhuman had three other artists on it before Anakin. And I, they all did great, but it wasn't the energy I was looking for. It didn't complete the song the way I had wanted it to. So I told them all, thank you, but like, not on this one. Cannon came over. Anakin, so I call him Canon. I know it confuses a lot of people.

Um, he came over and he did what he did. And I had the back and forth parts ready already. My part was recorded. I put a space. My part was recorded. Put a space. And he just understood the assignment. Like, he's a dancer and a very good one at that. So he understands, like, how to pick something back up that was just left off. So, like, even the way he picks up where I left off. No other artists did this who sent me a verse back. I'm like, uh, uh, and I make it look easy bitch everyone when I said that just started their verse canon picked it up he said I'll stomp you what am I geezies bitch and then he started his verse it's like I got you I'm gonna finish your thing and now I'll come in it felt a lot more cohesive but it's just yeah he did his thing on that one that's so interesting because that's exactly how it feels as a listener is that you guys are just like it's almost like you have a ball and you're just tossing it back and forth and like within my culture like we have like talking sticks and like it seemed like you were passing that back and forth and that

you guys are able to like become in sync and i think really good songs can do that like i think of like g easy and b b rexa when they did their song together me myself and i like that one took off but it took off because they complemented each other and and they kind of like interwove the music what is if i if i can ask what is the process when you're trying to select someone for a song do you just put a call out where it goes out to the world and anybody can submit? Like, how does that work? No, it is definitely not a call out and anyone can submit type thing. The way I see it, music is just vibrations, right? You pluck a string on the guitar, it goes back and forth, and it makes a resonant tone, and we like the way it sounds. Then you put some pressure on it

somewhere and it makes a different noise, right? Our voices are instruments, too. We're just vibrating our vocal cords is coming out with a certain tone and whatever. Certain songs call for guitar, xylophone, piano, right? Just because that's what the mood calls for. Some songs call for specific voices, certain tones, certain instruments, and not others. So I knew Cannon's tone would fit very well on that beat, as well as his flow patterns and how he rides beats. But I could, I could tell you 10 talented artists that I like, that would have made no sense on it. Even if they are lyrical choppers, just it's an, it's an energy thing. It's a vibration thing. And you can hear who calls for. Like, if I played you a beat, a very specific beat, you could be like, oh, I could hear

50 cent on this. It's because you just know there's a, you know an instrument, aka someone's voice, that would complement the already existing instruments in the instrumental. That's really deep because it seems so applicable to so many circumstances where you want to be very intentional about making those decisions. Since we last spoke, he actually dropped his album, I'm sure you listened to it. What was your, like, feeling of it? And what did you take away from it? From Anakin's album? Aniken's album, yeah. Yeah. So he threw a, excuse me, he threw a release party. It's even bigger than that. I don't even know what you would call it. But it was an event. There you go. He threw an event at this immersive hall, let's call it, where the walls projected pictures. And

He invited all his friends and performed the album from front to back when it first came out. That was incredible. I really enjoy Canon's music for a reason that I don't enjoy most people's music. If I like others' music, it's like, oh, they could sing well, their flow is incredible, they could rap well, they're very creative with the tone and pockets, right? Canon's music is different, man. his comes from a, like, really ethereal place. He's very big on creating from scratch. Like, he'll make the beat with the producer from the beginning, from a blank slate.

And he's like, I like that instrument. I like the way it buzzes and sounds as build off that. And he just really finds these spaces of thought within the songs that, in a way that I don't think many people do. I think he does a really good job at speaking. universally and still it's digestible, if that makes sense. Yeah, I think his creation process is what I love the most and it shows a lot in his music. Most people, including myself and many, many of my peers, is like, we get a 95% finish beat and then we make a song to it, send it back to the producer and say, like, produce some cool shit around my vocals to make them pop a little more.

Cannon builds like a painter. He's like, let's throw this here, let's throw that there. makes me want to do this. Now here we're going to completely change a beat into a breakdown and it's going to turn into a dance record. I think he creates, he doesn't follow the template at all. He doesn't follow the structure at all. And that's what makes his music sound the way it does. Fascinating. You also came out with the song Lost and your wife was on that song with you. Would you mind sharing the backstory? Yeah. So that one's not as crazy. So to be completely honest, whenever, um, Cassidy is on a song.

It's because I write all my hooks and I try to record everything. And if it's out of my range, it's just too high, I just call her in there. I scream from the other side of the house and she comes in, hops on the mic, and she takes care of it. But I think going back to instruments, voices as instruments, I think the female vocal on the hook added a really nice contrast to the record as a whole. I had a really deep low tone on the verse, and then to hear that feminine sound come in on the hook with me laid it underneath it, I felt like it really came together. But the story behind the lyrics of the song, I would say, is just that was one of those in-between moments of I hadn't made a no excuses, a superhuman, a Sedona, and that was me preaching about it. It's just, it's the woes of the journey of trying to find that next one. And it sounds so minuscule and little like, oh, you're sad, you can't.

another big song but it's so much deeper than that it's purposeful that's where a lot of my purpose is derived so that's me making some music while um on my way to find another song that makes me feel purposeful here's a philosophical question for you would you say that you feel more comfortable in those dark moments in those uh lost or those running songs or more comfortable in the superhuman in the no excuses mindset where do you feel more at home it's so evenly split okay so evenly split because i only live in either or i don't live in in between i live in top of the mountain or darkness so it's those are i have two homes and those are both them so they are the two types of records that i make the easiest and it's only because i value the first one so

much that the second option is just the default when that one can't come interesting because the weird thing i would say about about me is that like i think for the most part i come across as a pretty positive like a happy person and usually when i'm interviewing someone it's like how do you reach your full potential but then i'll go listen to like nk or i'll listen to like running or i'll listen to nf and it's like i just feel like i'm just a loser that just never went anywhere in life and like that's like my comfort zone is like thinking that I just never made it anywhere. And then I go out and I try and be positive and uplifting. But like that's like my behind the scenes brain is like maybe this podcast goes nowhere. Maybe I'm an idiot. Like maybe I'm not just those same type of thoughts. But that's like my my comfort zone is is sitting in those feelings. Yeah. Again, I think it comes with the territory, man. I think when you strive for so much, you're bound to have. harsh feelings of doubt because you're you're venturing down the path less traveled so it is there are not as many success stories that you could look up to and be like this is definitely

going to work so that crippling doubt man is I just I think it's way more common than me and you think it is because it's not as popular to talk about that part of the glamorous entrepreneur lifestyle but I genuinely think it comes with it because what we're doing is high risk, high reward. Couldn't agree more. Then you dropped the song running, and this one was a really good one. One of my favorite lines from it was, can't nobody keep it peaceful? And I love that because there's only a few interviews that I've done where I can genuinely

hear peace in the person's voice as they're communicating. Like I think it's like four interviews where they just sound like nothing could bother them. And they have this philosophy around how they're communicating that sounds like if you were to throw something at them, they'd process it calmly. Like that whole energy doesn't make sense to me. Like I don't have that communication style. But when they bring that, it's like, wow, that really is rare. Like, we are so easy to pop off and be frustrated when somebody cuts us off in traffic. Or when somebody says something mean to us on social media.

Or when a family member disrespects us at the dinner table. like we're so easily challenged and it's hard to find peace where when something does arise you're not impacted because you understand your place in the larger world can you tell us about the song running uh and and that line yes so man i want to touch on the on what you just said as well that level of peace is boring to me it's and i get it i get it because i've intense piece before but to have that as your default is nuts for me personally because I don't know man if you and I hate to sound like a you know how could I could I word this I hate to sound like doom and gloom right but if you just

look like at what is going on in the world and you really have your finger on the of things, if you're that at peace, you either don't have anything you're concerned about losing, or you don't plan on protecting people you care about, or you're uninformed onto what's going on, or like, you're okay with dying and the people you care about dying. Like, it's very confusing to me if you really are tapped into what's going on in the world. that you can just be like, yeah, everything's cool, man. It's like, I'm telling you, it is not. Like, maybe go get yourself, go get yourself,

12 months worth of food, water, and some guns or something. And then maybe you could have that piece because you're like, okay, everything's cool. And if shit does pop off, then we're going to be fine. But still, bro, I don't know. I think tensions are so high. And I'm not, you know, I'm not trying to be devices. or politicize this entire podcast.

But if I could speak vaguely about it, that's what I would say. I think the world is in a wild place right now and a lot of shit is coming to the forefront, really, really deep truths that are going to affect everything. And to have full peace while all that is going on

is a bit confusing to me. Agreed. The only area I guess I'd follow up with is maybe it's been that way since like, I think we as people can, get stuck in like this is our time frame but like you have to think during the cold war things were like maybe way worse than this because they really did almost hit that nuclear like attack button they really were that close and when you think of world war two like we were this close to

losing and the world would be a completely different place if we did and so like maybe the maybe the piece is that we've been here before we've been in utter chaos before but maybe humans have an inclination to overcome those things at that final hour not press the button and and win the war when it when it comes time yeah i've i've taken uh i found solace in that that you know i can't change anything myself but if the time does come then you know i'll be i'll be i'll be willing to do whatever i need to do to you know keep the people i care about and things i hold near and to your safe. I have to say, as a Canadian, I have a lot of admiration for that. And I do think we lack that in Canada. And I think if you look at some of our politics, it will reflect that

we're not very good at that. But like, as you said, having three months worth of food, making sure that you're prepared, making sure that you have a vehicle, making sure that you know where you would go if things got out of hand. We had the Vancouver riot. Like just being mindful of those things, I think is important. But let's get back to your song running and how that song came about it wouldn't be a vin podcast if i don't tangent about politics for at 30 seconds um running running running that's okay so that's a lower vibrational song than even low was low was oh i'm sorry not low it lost lost is kind of uh you know i'm doing all right i feel a little upset about things running

is is way darker that is um that's just about the real crippling self-doubt that can consume you, right? Lost is just exactly that. You're feeling a bit lost, you're not sure, but you're going to keep pushing on either way, right? Running is, is, you're at the end of your rope. It feels like, it's a call, it's a cry for help in the sense that, like, hoping someone feels the way that you feel. That's the best way I could say that that song is really just a reflection of dark thoughts can we talk about the cover art for some of these lost and running just great cover art just like there's there's ones where like i'm excited to send it to somebody because it's like it's just it's the exact mood that you want to send

to them and then you see other artists and it just doesn't always kind of jive like they're going to look at it and they're going to go like why did you send me this isn't what i'm looking like yours are always on point and they kind of have that energy how do you get your your cover art developed it's very underwhelming very underwhelming it's as close to like stock images as you can get without it being stock images but my selection process is very particular the same way i listen for who would fit on a song i go through many photos for cover arts and say like that is the energy of this song right i love that is there anyone that stood out to you over all the songs

you've made that you're super proud of? Cover art wise? Yeah. Let's see. I'm not huge on cover art as particular as I am with it. I'm not super big on it because I don't think it plays a gigantic role in the performance of the song or how many people it can reach. Let's see.

I think I think. to see the light one was pretty cool is literally just an eye with a literal stream of light over it but like i said i don't put too much thought into it so if i gave you a long-winded answer it would not be genuine right can we talk about god damn because that one was like it hit and i was on a run and i was like oh my gosh this is exactly what i needed and then it got me all thinking about all the lyrics and and we'll get into that in a second but how did that song come about yeah so me and gone um have met a few times and uh basically when we do songs we just trade typically like if you get on someone's songs you go okay give me a 20% cut of the royalties of the song and and we're good to go

that's my payment for the record or give me a flat rate payment and then don't give me any royalties but me and a few artists we just trade it's like here's your verse for me and i'll hit you up and then you give me a verse for one of my records so gone hit me up for that one and and he went off as per and I always say I low-key do better on features than I do on my own songs because the competition is there and I refuse to be the worst one on the song. So

I did yeah, he sent it to me. He's like, you know, do your verse. So I made sure I snapped for him, stayed on brand with the lyrics, did a little chopper flow in some spots because that's, you know, the fans love that. And then he just sent me a verse back for a song of mine

and that song is arguably the best unreleased song I have right now. Wow. Okay. And then Mercuryle's is on that song as well. So you've done a few songs with him. What did you think of his verse and what did you think of the song release? Yeah. I mean, the song released, when it released, the numbers crushed, which I mean, obviously everyone did their thing, but you never know what a song, how it's going to perform, right? You could love it. It could flop. But it crushed when it came out. And yeah, Merck always kills him, man. He's been doing this shit for a while. And he's, my guys went viral.

how many times now, just from, you know, rapping. So he, Mercury leases one of those dudes, bro, and it's always fun to get on a song with artists that push you and that you respect, that what they've done and what they continue to do. And when everyone goes off on a record and it's your turn, I don't think there's much more inspiring than that to really push you to go off on the record.

Is it ever surreal? Like, getting on, like, chatting with you, I always get, like, super nervous. Is there any nerves to be? chatting with them chopping it up with them like is there any feelings or you guys just buddies because i don't know i don't know if i could if you if i was in a room with you guys i think my hands get sweaty and i don't think i'm as chill as you uh no i don't really get starstruck especially with people that i consider my peers right yeah yeah um i mean i if is there anyone

that i've met yeah of course i mean i'd say the biggest person i've met you know i met tech that was super dope um but it wasn't starstruck you're just kind of like you're just happy to be around them man as people that inspire you so uh there's some nerves maybe on the way there but once you get around people you're like oh you're just a regular person who does incredible shit but yeah like when i met tech i had a little bit of that feeling same with logic when i met him but the second you say what's up to them it's all gone bro it's all just people who did awesome shit yeah murk is another one because he's like i work in surrey like he's right there like he's infamous around here we also have to talk about the game needs a cleanse

this is one of your lines you have to explain it to me yeah this is on uh on the damn record right yeah uh what is that line it's oh i feel like the game being lacking a cleanse i'm ready to kill yeah so that is that is just it needs a refresh and i don't mean like oh old music sucks and da da da da da that's not what I mean. I mean, like, I think because we're in the age of more music equals better, the more you put out, the better, and the more content, the better. I think everything starts to sound really derivative and template. So when I say a cleanse, I mean, we just need some refreshing artistry. That's all I'm saying. And look, I've fallen victim to sound in like some

of my inspirations as well, but the way I've approached, I guess, cleansing my own music is making sure that the things I put out resonate, right? So that's all I'm saying with that is like everyone just like take three steps back and just sharpen your craft a bit. Just stop playing to the algorithm. You know, less is more sometimes. And yeah, and that's all. I think everyone just take your craft a little more seriously, including myself. Interesting. do you find that like you think of russ and he kind of i think would say put out the rubric of dropping these singles and and keeping up with it and he tried to give like a little bit of a rubric on on what you do as a an independent artist and maybe people take that too far sometimes

or they kind of lock into a process and instead of coming from that place of inspiration they're treating it more like just a business where they just need to get out a product yeah i think if you're russ and you can put out that many songs and the quality can stay up, by all means, release as frequently as you can, as long as your quality doesn't suffer. But Russ definitely coined that method of going about releasing music. But I also think algorithms, the way that people release content and how oversaturated music is now, if you don't release every two weeks, three weeks, you feel like you're being forgotten because all of your peers have released another song and 40 pieces of content. So now you're lost.

the sea you're trying to poke your hand out and say hey like i still exist but that moment of hey i still exist you're presenting something that's subpar a lot of the time because you didn't take your time because all you cared about was not being forgotten about what advice would you have for rappers take your time making something great is not that common anymore because everyone just wants to make more so if you can just make something great it's going to stand out people always ask me why i don't push content hard like a lot of other people and make a lot of short form content it one is because my energy can't be divided that hard or i choose not to divide my energy like that rather and it's also because i'm a firm believer that cream

rises to the top. So if I can take my time and make something incredible and undeniable, and then I put a video behind it that also has the same amount of effort as the song did, I think cream rises to the top and I don't need to force feed you 40 pieces of short form content to beg you to listen to my song. You're just going to want to and it's going to spread by word of mouth because it's good. And I think people are underestimating good music spreading by itself because content works.

It's like, yes, it does, but like it doesn't matter how much you dress up a shitty song. If you can just to boil it back down, if you make good songs, really good songs that you take your time on, you're going to stand out because

you're doing something that someone else can't, that most people can't. That was really well said. kind of goes back to the beginning of our conversation, where, like, the authenticity is also really key. Like, I think people see what NF did, and they go, like, I need to figure out a way to fit that mold, and I need to create what he created, and I need to do it in the same way, because he proved that it works. And then people kind of, like, well, if you're not there to what you described earlier, you're going to kind of miss that. And I find that my favorite songs,

like, your albums are still in my, like, most recently played list, and they stay there, because I go back and I listen to it and it has meaning behind it and I go, I'm in this different point in my life, but that line has a new meaning to me today than it did before, where I look at some songs and I don't mean to rip on them, but like the chain smokers, they don't have depth to the lyrics. They figure it out what the common way to make a beat kind of ring in your ear and it hits for the first 20 days and then you can't hear that song again without wanting to turn it off. Like, it changes the meaning behind it over time. But great artists find a way to, you go back to it. And, like, NF, I think is also good at this. Of, like, you go back and you, like, yeah, I do need to change in my life. Or I do need these things.

And you go back and you learn something new about yourself from listening to the song. And that's something where I think there's, like, a depth to the lyrics that you need to find. And that will withstand the test of time and become a great song. Because that's the other concern is, like, certain songs just seem to sit bay at that top played list for a reason because there's depth and you can learn about yourself through that. Yeah, I think you said it best. It's, it's that authenticity, man. It's, I think intention is a really big talking point behind this because guess what, man, like there's no wrong answer. If you want to make music for money, then go make music for money. And you can follow the pop template and

all that fun stuff. And it could, if you're talented and have a voice on you, it's probably going to work, real talk. But, but. But. From my personal experience, making music for money is, it's a, it's meaningless. Bro, again, going back to purpose, go ahead, because guess what? Let me let you in on a little secret, and it's not that big of a secret. Once you get money, and then your whole intention of making music was to make money, it's going to suck to make. You're not going to like it because you already have money.

And what are you going to do with more money? buy things that make you feel hollow. So if you want money and you want to make songs like that, run it up. But it is not a long-term plan to gain fulfillment from your music. And I also think the people who do decide to make music as a journal or to help others or any real motivator, those resonate. with humans, right? So there's a really funny thing, man.

So there's people who have like, let's say a million monthly listeners on Spotify, right? But their music is not talking about shit. Maybe it just sounds good. And they cannot sell out a venue for their life. And then there's people with 200,000 monthly listeners that are selling out 2,000 cap venues every night because what they're talking about resonates with people.

So intention, Again, like, yeah, you can make your streaming money, but you may not have longevity, and you also may feel like shit once you get money and that's that. And you realize it isn't all that anyway once your bills are paid. So, yeah, I think it's a really loaded topic, but I think intention, the intention you have when you go to create your music determines a lot. Beautiful, well said, you're going on tour. Can you tell us about it? Are you excited? Are you nervous?

Um, yes, I'm very excited. Very, very excited. It has been a long time coming. I've, I've had a, what most would deem a successful music career since 2019. It is now 2024. And, and I am now for the first time going on tour. To answer your question about if I'm nervous, in the beginning I was, and that is also why it's taken so long to go on tour. Because like I said, I'm not a huge fan of public speaking, but fuck letting fear rule your life. That is stupid. So since I found out I was going on tour, which is probably like two months ago maybe, I've been rehearsing every single day. I found my set list that I wanted and every day I wake up and I run through the entire set list. And the reason for this is because I want to cut out all as many variables as possible. You're already performing in front of a live crowd. So there's a variable every single night of how things can go. But I've recognized for myself that most of the nerves come from anxiety of messing certain things up. So I want to make sure that anything that could be messed up on my end is just muscle,

memory that I could do with my eyes close at. If someone threw a box and nachos at me, it wouldn't stop me because I literally could do it in my sleep. Now, with that being said, because it's been so long that I've been rehearsing, no, my nerves have been eased big time because I'm confident in what I'm getting up on that stage to do. I'm confident in the message behind in the songs that I'm performing and I think when you if you deep down know your songs

don't have any meaning you are way more nervous to get on stage because what you're saying has no intention and no purpose so you're afraid that people aren't going to like it and you should be afraid because your music doesn't have any purpose so with that being said

that got a bit intense but I'm passionate about it I love it so So with that being said, I'm excited because I think the song selection is great. I think I'm prepared. I think it's a long time coming and I'm confident in my music and the purpose behind it. One of my favorite things we talked about this last time was that when you're going on tour,

you're not really playing a song that's going to do something. Like people are showing up to have an experience, to make memories, to be a part of a moment. And I think you really get that. I've done a few live events and I constantly, like I do my same prep work, make sure I got my questions prepared, make sure that everybody's having a good night and they've got the food they want. But my mindset is so much more like make this fun. Make sure people feel the variety of emotions and that they go through that because that's what hits home. That's where people go home and they're like, I had a good night. When you hit them with some sad songs, when you hit them with

some pump up, you're going to take over the world songs. When you get that energy, that's what people walk away with and they go, that was a great night. And I know that you get that and we had a great conversation last time about that. So I'm so excited for you because I think everybody who attends that is going to make so many good memories and be so happy that they came out and they participated. How can people grab tickets to this? Yes. So you can get tickets. I should know the link directly, but I do not. If you go into any of my social media pages at Real Vinj on Instagram, same on Twitter, and I believe

it's just Vinj on Facebook. If you go into the link in my bio on any of those, that has my set page which has the link to the ticket site. Do you know approximately which venues, like what areas you'll be hitting? I know you're not coming to

Chilliwack, so I'm disappointed about that. Yeah, I've got a few disappointed people, but unfortunately I'm not in control of the route and and we wanted, or rather management, wanted to hit West Coast first. So that's what we're doing. I got some East Coast people mad at me, but I'll be over there soon, and I would love to.

I got international people who want me to come to as well, and I would love to. But getting my feet wet with the West Coast first. In terms of what cities am I doing, I should know off the top of my head. I do not. I could tell you roughly, I know we're going as far west as Cali. I think we're going the furthest east is like Ohio, which is actually, like really loner over there we're not really doing anything else over there

but yeah a little Utah little Cali Texas Washington so kind of pretty much the whole west side of the country beautiful Vin it's such an honor to speak with you every single time again I just think you've got this unique philosophy that I really

look up to and I hear it in all the songs I'm a huge fan of your work and it's always such a privilege when you agree to come on because I'm like yay we get to speak again and I just enjoy your perspective on things. So thank you again for being willing to hop on. Anytime, man. I appreciate you having me on. I very much enjoy our conversations as well. Otherwise, I wouldn't be saying yes so much. It's a good time. I think we have thought-provoking convos every time. And yeah, the respect is mutual for sure. It sounds like there's a potential podcast in your future.

So I can't wait to see that come to life. And I wish you the best of luck going on tour and on your wedding. I'm so happy for you. You're really having things come together. and that's just such an amazing thing to see. Thank you. I appreciate that.