Nuanced. - 162. Carrielynn Victor: Indigenous Wisdom and Nature in Art

Episode Date: June 27, 2024

Experience the vibrant celebration of National Indigenous Peoples Day with a live recording from our Art Show Interview, where Carrielynn Victor brilliantly connects art, nature, and cultural heritage through ecosystem restoration, intergenerational connections, and storytelling.Carrielynn Victor is an artist, plant harvester, author, storyteller, mother, conservationist, fisher and medicines practitioner. Send us a textThe "What's Going On?" PodcastThink casual, relatable discussions like you'd overhear in a barbershop....Listen on: Apple Podcasts   SpotifySupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

Welcome back to another episode of the Bigger Than Me podcast. Here is your host, Aaron P. How's everybody doing? Amazing, amazing. So each one of these, for people who have visited before, I try and make unique, and that's with the support of my partner, Rebecca. We try and make these original. The first one was with Rebecca Sichon.

We had music. We did pizza, chips. We tried to make it a relaxed vibe. this is an art show. So we tried to upclass things a bit with some more wine, chakouterie cups, which I had to learn how to spell. And so many other delicious foods, the delicious sandwich is they're a little bit smaller to make you feel like a big person, big person on the block. One piece that we ask is that anybody who's willing to,

we're hoping that you share this on social media, record this, share it with your friends, give them that thing, it's called FOMO, fear of missing out that they miss out on next one. We like to keep these small and make sure that there's a good group of people here, but we want other people to know about these because we're trying to raise awareness of really important people. And that's Carrie Lynn, that's not me. So we like to highlight those individuals and give them a platform where other people can hear the important things that they have to say. So I really want to stress that. The other piece that's really important is that we also have an opportunity for you to purchase her work. So that's the first time that we're giving

this a try. We're trying to support her work and make sure that. that she has the opportunity to share her endeavor. For those of you who don't know, it's a lot of work to become an artist. It's a lot of work to share your gift, to dedicate yourself. And over the first five to 10 years, it can be an uphill battle.

And then it's only now that you start to gain traction. People start to recognize. Some of you might be here specifically to see her, which is great, but it takes a long time to build that up. And we want to make sure we support her by doing that. So this is the way that you support her. There's information on how to do that. We hope that some of you may have done that.

At the end of this, there will be an opportunity to re-go through. If you haven't been to the second floor, there's artwork up there for you to be able to go see. There's artwork on the first floor as well. Some of you, I know, have already purchased prints. And so we're trying to encourage people to be able to get that experience so that we can raise awareness of the great work she's doing so. As all of you likely know, our guest tonight is Carrie Lynn Victor. I'm so excited. We were corresponding three months ago about this, and I'm super passionate about the work she does.

we did an interview for those of you who don't know back in 2021 right before the Atmospheric River and she has a lot of stories that I hope we get into tonight about the work she did prior about the Sumas Lake and then 20 days later an atmospheric river takes place and reminds us of that history so I think that's going to be valuable she is an artist plant harvester author storyteller Fisher medicines practitioner Carrie Lynn would you please join us. How are you feeling? Feeling good?

Thanks for having me. Thank you, everybody, for coming. I'd like to start with some things people might not know about you, which is your work with the environment, conservation, and trying to protect these ecosystems. As you can see, there's habitat, restoration taking place, and you were involved in that work. Would you mind taking us back to that? Many people understand the history of indigenous people, and they think of us as stewards of the land. And I thought this was a beautiful example of your work stewarding these lands. Would you mind

talking about that? Sure. This is an example of a successful project. There's a lot of projects on a micro scale that take place, but this one was a little bit larger. And we tapped into a recreational Fisher's fund that funds restoration works through Chiam's environmental consultancy. I was managing the consultancy at the time, and the original plan was just to put some big rip-wrap against the foreshore and carry on, which is common practice when there's threats of flooding. But it's really, really poor fish habitat. And I've got my older cousin in my ear, and he's always saying, living for shores, living for shores. That's the way to go. And recognizing that water naturally needs to kind of spill into these side channels, ponds, marshes along the river's edge, where it builds habitat and sustains all kinds of species, invertebrates all the way up to mammals, right? So we took those monies and we went back to DFO and I said, I've got another idea, hear me out.

And a lot of people said, DFO is not going to listen to you. They already said yes, but we pleaded our case and they said yes. And so we got to work reviewing the hydrogeology of a side channel in the river and decided to regrade. the side channel, dig some new pools, where there was already salmon fry present, and put in some large woody debris and bring in some riparian plants and try to colthet, which is a term that means like bring it back to the way it was. It was a good, it was certainly a good exercise. It took three years. It wasn't like an overnight project, and we had lots of help from local experts and various types of scientists at the province and in our community.

And it was just like one of our fishers. You said, well, why don't you work with what we already have? Why don't you just fix up what we already have instead of going out there and putting big rocks on the foreshore? And what the hope is is that the fish come back, right? And eventually the project expands out further into the river and more salmon spawning habitat. and we're keeping an eye on it and nature is certainly taking it back over.

I go and I look at the footprints at different times a year and, you know, the eagles are eating the swans and swans are eating the bugs and the coyotes are eating the fish or the otters are eating the fish and the coyotes are eating the otters and the whole cycle is really, it's really happening down there. What does that mean to you? It means to a certain degree success. You know, it's one thing to want to fix habitat for human use,

but to restore habitat and kind of take a step back and watch nature do its thing is, it's certainly a type of success. I'm wondering about how nature ties in with conservation and how you tie that into your artwork. I feel like this piece that we're looking at is an excellent example of tying the two together and that experience you had,

trying to restore the environment, having that understanding, and then tying it into your artwork. Yeah, the connections are definitely there. So this is a chum. An emergency management group asked for this piece because they were looking to reflect traditional fishing values with salmon

all in kind of all in one image and so what's happening there is there's a tiny little board floating in the water and there's a fish bones on it and the man with the shawl and the hat and the gesture is a speaker and that is a first salmon ceremony and so if you've been to a first salmon ceremony you kind of know what's happening there but if you haven't been to a first salmon ceremony. It's an ancient treaty that acknowledges that when we, up this part of the river, I can't really speak for other groups who do their first salmon ceremony. But when we, we catch that first salmon, every single bone goes back onto a special platter and through a special ceremony goes back into the river. And those, that's part of a promise that's made to the

salmon mother that will take care and respect and revere the salmon that come up the river. And so through that is this agreement that the salmon will continue. And I chose a chum because they're super colorful and I believe that their colors do reflect environment. And so there's these splashes of like mountains and trees. and I love the pink that shows up. I don't exactly know what that reflects, but it's fun. And then the two in the canoe are a reflection of the ancestors who come

and they help us with that part of the ceremony. So lots going on. I learned a lot about Chum in the project that we were just speaking of and how aggressive and powerful they are. And so I had to throw the teeth in there too. Beautiful. You are also a medicine practitioner, and I'm wondering where this came from. I love plants.

Did you always have that passion, and did it start to develop when you started to understand the environment around you? I have always, I've always had a passion, but, you know, for those of you've been in Chiluac for a long, long time, Like, there was a lot of, a lot, a lot of forested space 30 and 40 years ago. And when I was growing up, we would just head out into the bush and do our playing. And certain times of the year, you know, you could suck on clovers or eat fresh shoots or eat the berries or, you know, you knew which bark you could eat. I don't think we realized we were engaging in medicinal practices or seasonal rituals of rejuvenation at the time. But as adults, those are kind of the terms we might give them. And so as I got into, I was probably like 15 or 16, I got into following around a late elder in the Naimus,

Nenemuk elder Ellen White, who's passed on now. and she used to do plant walks through the university. And I found it just fascinating how one plant could not just be useful or beneficial for one thing, but one plant could be, you know, it could have technological value and it could have food value and it could have medicine value and at a different time of year it could be used

for a different kind of medicine and for men it could be useful for this and for women it could be useful for that. Like one plant. So super fascinating. And then I did a bit of herbology. I took a certificate program with Dr. Jeannie Paul. Some of you might know Dr. Jeannie Paul.

She's a naturopath. Focuses on indigenous plants. And Dr. Jeannie's focus is like, oh, let's learn as many things as we can. But on a separate occasion, an elder said something that really hit home and said, you know, working with plants is about relationships. and it's not about volume, it's not about numbers, how many hundreds of plants you know is good, but your relationship with them is the most important thing

because that's what you're sharing with the people who need the medicine. The more you know a plant, the better you can share it. And so I started to scale back, back, back, back, back, back. And now I just work with a handful of plants. I just feel like this conversation is really important because we hear about like this idea of grounding. You take off your shoes and you go out into nature. And that seems like such a high level understanding

of where you get to when you follow that through to its end, which is really trying to understand the environment and all of these different plants. And there's probably so many to try and learn about. And it just reminds you to be humble in your understanding of nature and to start to take those steps to reconnect and appreciate the complexity of the world around you. And I feel like our world sometimes is simplified down

so that you just take this pill for this issue or you take that for this or you, and it's a reminder that there's a whole world out there that we've interacted with for thousands of years and that we need to start to take those steps to reconnect. Yeah, humans in general have been using plants far longer than we've been using pills for sure. And so our bodies are hardwired to know what to do.

Our bodies know what to do. Our body does a lot of healing without plants. Right? Yeah. This ties in as well. I'm going to tie everything throughout tonight with your artwork. And I loved this photo. It really stood out to me because it's a reminder of young ones being able to reconnect

and start to understand and learn about how to truly nourish ourselves and not just feed ourselves, not just eat, but really nourish ourselves, both within our heart and within our stomach. So would you mind talking about this piece? For sure. This piece is at Promontory. Heights, Promptor Heights Elementary. And really, this is a reflection of the work they're doing with their kids.

They have a lot of times when I go into schools and I work with them for murals, they say, like, let's work with their mascot. But their mascot is a Black Panther, which is not a local or regional species. And so their idea was to celebrate their kids and the work that their kids do in the local riparian re-establishing indigenous plants. And it's really cool work, and they wanted to kind of mark that moment in history. So I walked up and down the little creek, made note of which plants were there

and the bird species that were in there, and then just tried to capture a moment where these kids are doing that work. there is something like the nuance there is that the cultural nuance there is that the young man is digging in red earth and it's my understanding

that the red earth locally is the oldest earth and so in this image he's he's like tapping into a remembering and so I know there's a saying and I'm probably not going to get it right but if your hands are in the earth you're learning something and so he he's touching he's kind of touching ground on this this these old

understandings just by planting a tree this leads into one of the questions i'll be i'll be kind of honing in on more later but it's this like we need to reconnect to these things like it feels like there's high anxiety depression it feels like that comes from a sense of disconnect whether it's from their elders their community the culture the land it feels like there's that disconnect and that importance of reconnecting with these things, going for walks in nature, starting to point out those plants that you don't know and looking at them up. I mean, there's apps now that will help you find birds and plants and understand these things. And it seems like that's more important than ever when we're seeing these epidemics of disconnect.

Super important. Yeah. Yeah. We have to talk about this book as well right here. Cool. Stand like a cedar. I love it. And it goes to this idea of disconnect. and being important to find yourself and stand within yourself. From your perspective, what does it mean to stand like a cedar? Well, I just want to give a quick shout out to Nicola, who wrote the book. Nicola is a dear friend of mine, and she's like this really expressive poet as well. She feels very deeply.

And so when I listen to her speak or share a poem, I love to just let that kind of translate. because I, I feel deeply, but I feel deeply in imagery. Like, so it's a little bit different. And so I was hiking one time, and the bark was fallen off this old tree, and the tree had grown, like, in a twist. And so we kind of made note of it, but started to notice it elsewhere and really noticed it in the alpine. And it turns out that trees that grow in more intense winds will grow twist, like they'll grow tall and straight, but inside they're twisted because it makes them more resilient and resistant to snapping. Right. And so I think that's one way to look at a cedar. But another way to look at a cedar is through the lens of who,

who the cedar tree is, right? And so the concept of shuli life force within everything and the carrying on of a life force is part of every single cedar tree. And if you take the name for cedar, in Hulke-Melam, it's ch'pa'i. And so the root word of hape is heap, and heap means a line. And A is like the continuance. Hapé is the continuance of a line. And there's kind of two ways you could look at that.

You could look at that like if you're pulling cedar bark and you create a nice long line, that could be your ch'pae. But if you look at the life force of the tree and how the tree was originally a man who was transformed into the tree, then he then becomes, the continuance of his line then goes through every tree. And so every time I approach that cedar tree,

that chile of that man is there. and reminds us about generosity and reminds us about continuance in a good way. And so there's probably a dozen more ways that we could describe standing like a cedar because I also think cedar trees dance. Like if you watch them in a windstorm,

they're kind of, they all have their own way about them too. So I was disconnected from my culture. My mom was a part of the 60 scoop. So I didn't grow up. ingrained in some of this information. But I grew up in a Roman Catholic household where we learned a lot of those traditions. And what you were just talking about, the idea of the good man who is eventually turned into a cedar tree is very similar to me to the idea of Jesus Christ. And the idea that the person who stands up for the community, who acts in people's best interest, who gives himself, who is willing to be generous to others in circumstances where they could act in their own best interest.

and that's something to be admired. That's a role model to look up to. And that he was turned into a cedar tree so that he could continue to give back to people and to the community and that we've relied on the cedar tree in so many different ways. And that we were very intentional throughout history

not to cut down the cedar tree but to take the bark off of it and to remain that lifeline. Sending McCelsey talked about the lifeline within the tree that if you cut, it will no longer continue to grow. It needs that lifeline into the ground in order to continue to live. and when we just force cut everything down,

we disconnect that and we start to kill off those things. And that's something that we shouldn't do, that we should aspire to keep these things living and stay connected to these things. Do you think about the drawbacks and try and think about this in both a religious way as well? I hadn't drawn that parallel for myself, but I can see where you're going with that.

And, I mean, to aspire to generosity and, like, centering ourselves in community is a pretty rich life, you know, rich in that you may always have what you need because you're always doing your job, right? Taking care of others and they're taking care of you. The other piece I want to touch on in this book is, to me, you are somebody who stands like a seat. You're willing to go out into the community. You're willing to look into a camera, sit in front of 65 people, have a conversation, and talk about the things that you care about, that matter to you, that have arisen as something that's important to you. And some people shy away from that. Some people, they want to do their office work. They're uncomfortable on a stage.

And that's challenging. To take up the embark of going in front of people and sharing your story isn't always easy. It's not always the most comfortable thing. So how has that applied to you? How have you worked to be able to be comfortable sitting in front of a group of people? Well, thank you, first of all. I was in grade two, and I had a teacher who played the guitar, and he was like a happy, jolly guy, played the guitar.

And he had an exercise for us that was really interesting. Seven years old is supposed to be an age where your, like, gifts start to show up. and he insisted we pick a topic and present in front of the class and like some of the children are just mortified but I was at this really multicultural school in Burnaby Edmonds Elementary at the time and I wanted to share my indigenous culture with this class there was no other indigenous kids in the school

there's kids from all over the world who were like first generation immigrants there, and I wanted to teach them about smoking fish. And so my mom and I did the research, and she drew me this beautiful chart. She was in, she's going to BCIT at the time, so she had perfect font and layout and everything. And so I brought this chart in, and I stood beside the chart and described how to smoke fish and brought some samples, right? Lock it in. And I certainly, I loved it. And then the teacher asked me to do another one. And my mom and I made a little sweat lodge that was about this big.

And I had gone to my first sweat with my grandma about that age. And so we described like when the door opens and what happens inside and what it felt like and all of that. So I think there's a very supportive mother in and around the story there. But there's also a very supportive teacher who said, we like you in this position, do it again. And then I was always the host of things growing up, like the variety shows at school, and I worked at a casino, and I dealt craps,

and that's really loud and wild. And then I couldn't deal craps anymore, so I was the hostess for the casino. know, like, that was my full-time gig. I hosted the buses and the people. And then I had a nice little rap career for a while, too. And then when we had live fights in Chililuac, I did all the live fights, emcee the, like, on ring announcer stuff as well.

And so I think I like to be in front of people. There's always this nervousness about it. Like, I was in the back and was watching all the cameras of, like, everybody. And I just, I think that there's a time and a place. And I like to hold that ball in the air, you know? You must know what the ball is. Yeah, I've seen the ball once in place. We should tell you you're all being recorded right now.

There's no laughter cues in the ceiling. The other piece that I think is always important on National Indigenous People's Day that we talk about is the idea of Tomiuk and this idea of seven generation. This is the Tomiuk piece. Exactly. Well-timed. I saw it and I was like, that's Tomiuk. Nice. We have to talk about it.

I knew what was going on. Would you mind talking about this piece and what Tomiuk is? Well, this particular piece was commissioned by the, you know, by a group who said that they wanted Tomeyuk represented. And so I'm going to try to get this right. Stotmok is your great-grandmother. Okuyok is the great-great-grandmother. Dupoyok is the great-great-great-great,

and then Tami-uk, I think. And so it doesn't just count like a line in a generation. it's like the ones and then the ones beyond, I think. But what's interesting about the concept and the worldview is that it goes both ways. And so it's the great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, grandchild, but it's also the great, great, great, great, great, great, grandparent, understanding that they're connected. And in this piece, the ancestors are in the clouds and the time. Amioch generation is in the mountain.

And so they're at this high place because there's this sacredness about high places. A lot of the mountaintops are story rich. And we look up and we see the eagle and the eagle carries our prayers. And, you know, this concept of God being high was introduced to our people and it was accepted because we already looked up that way. And so this concept of Tamiuk travels in kind of both directions in the imagery as well as it does in our history and our lives. This is just incredibly beautiful.

Like when I think about the idea, you illustrated it perfectly. How did this come to you? Did you just sit down and dedicate yourself to this? Was this in a dream? How did something like this come about where it's so clearly depicted? I wish I could say it was a dream. That would be super fun.

But it's not. It's just from being outside and being on the land base and recognizing that you can dig deep and find your ancestors, you can go high into the mountains and find your ancestors. They're everywhere.

Their memories are everywhere. Their objects are still there. The way that they left footprints on the land base is still there, and how it steered me is still present as well. And so it's just, it was like faces. You know, we see faces in the mountains. We're not high.

We do see faces in the mountains. And the water, right? Like the water coming off of the woman's hair is important. Because, like, I personally recognize that, that, you know, this is the same water that the dinosaurs had. And so if the dinosaurs had this water and all the plants since, and then, you know, maybe our ancestors cried, and maybe those tears are in this water.

This water is me and this water is you and it connects us. And so to have a little bit of water kind of traveling through her hair is important too. There's one piece that I want to touch on on this, and it goes back to that idea of anxiety and depression is I don't think most people are taught this and I think it results in people feeling like their life doesn't matter. Like I feel like if you don't know that your grandparents and your great-grandparents and your great-great-grandparents did things so you could exist today, they might have traveled overseas, they might have had to fight a war,

they might have had to done all sorts of things in order for you to exist today. But if you're not told that, then you have no idea. that you are carrying on a legacy of sacrifices previously. That's why within indigenous culture, it's important that you learn your Talmiyuk and learn the past things that have happened to you. So you understand how you fit in and the significant things that have happened

for you to exist today. But then the other piece of that, which you were talking about, is you also have to understand that you have to pass things on to your kids and your grandkids. And you have to leave a legacy. You have to leave this world better than you found it

for future generations. And so with the discussion on rights and how important those are, I feel like this discussion of responsibility is equally important that you have a responsibility to your ancestors and to your children and your grandchildren and to the community that you uphold. And I'm just curious, am I crazy?

Am I missing something? Because I don't feel like I'm hearing this. Where don't you feel like you're hearing it? The news, political discussions. I don't feel like our politicians think five years beyond what's going on. And I know that there's systems in place that contribute to that. But, man, it would be nice if a news anchor said, what is your legacy over the next hundred years going to look like?

That would be a nice thing to hear everyone's no aisle. You know, it is few and far between to hear about it in politics or even to hear about it in the resource extraction industry. But I met a forester who was doing some harvesting on Sumas Mountain, and he said he was passing his business onto his kid, and so he was looking at a 30-year plan, And then he said, and if I want my son to have a successful business, then I'm going to need an 80-year plan.

And I was like, that's great. And noting that the work that he was doing was very different. His behavior on the land base was very different than a forester who wasn't thinking that way, right? And we certainly can't paint all the First Nations with the same brush and say, like, all the First Nations are thinking at Tommy Oak. it's not happening that way and so when it happens and it happens well we can celebrate that and we can move forward with that when you have it in your heart that's great when we can talk about it on a stage with each other and maybe somebody new puts it in their heart that's great too but the the values you know through maybe

colonization and the values of colonization are a little bit upside down. Do you feel like there's a shift from maybe when you started to now, that people are starting to understand these ideas and embrace them more than previously? When I started. Yes, I was having that conversation in the last. lobby. I was. Just minutes ago. Minutes ago in the lobby.

And about people embracing. And so I spent a lot of time going into elementary schools, going into middle schools, talking about plant values. Plants are our relatives. I exhausted myself and I stepped away. I was hosting workshops, how to make plant medicines. I exhausted myself. I stepped away.

And I was thinking like, well, who's going to do this work? This work's really important. I was working on the land base as well. And it's fuel for the fire. Where does my mind rest? My mind rests in art. All my ideas go back to art. And so I thought maybe I'll have this like never-ending well of energy if I just go and do art.

And I do. I feel really motivated always and also motivated. by the young people in the community of all backgrounds who are embracing that plants are our relatives and that we need to take care. And that's part of why the funds from tonight are going to the Park Society because I believe in that curriculum,

I believe in the connections that are made in the forest. That's beautiful. What made you interested in murals and what got you excited about doing this work? I must have seen a mural I must have seen a mural that just like that just hit home one day and I want to do that

and so I started doing I started doing murals here and there for daycares with acrylic paints and it was a real struggle I didn't really know what I was doing and I didn't know how to scale up and I didn't know a lot about composition And then the Vancouver mural festival asked if I wanted some help and offered a mentorship with an experienced graffiti artist

and somebody who'd done murals before. How to scale up, how to choose colors, how to work with environment. And that was like the launch pad I needed. And then I just stopped saying no for a while. You want a mural? Let's go. You want a mural? Let's go. Four stories high, let's go. Brick wall, let's go. Indoor, outdoor, upside down, let's go, let's go.

And in that, had some learning curves, but so much experience in a short amount of time. And I'm just now able to kind of scale down to the things that I want to do and the stories I want to tell and the kind of surfaces I want to paint. How far out are you booking now? Because I think the last time we talked a couple years ago, it was a year out. I'm still, yeah, booking a year and a half in advance. Yeah. Trying not to overbook, right? Like one a month because murals always come with contingencies. And so you need time to kind of work with all the things that could go wrong. That's another piece that I want to touch base on. When we first talked a couple of years ago now, you were talking about one of the challenges is making sure that you do it both for the people that want it. And they usually have requests, preferences, interests, and that you do that piece. but that you also make sure you nourish the creative endeavor

and making sure that you find that balance because for me it's like I need to interview us like I try and do one a week but I also want to make sure that I'm excited about it and that I'm intrigued and that there's questions that I have that are honest and genuine. How do you make sure that you strike that balance? Well, I'll tell you guys, Chiloag wants a lot of fish

and a lot of chiam. And I always, I'm like saying to myself, how, how can I make a mural that I'm not, I haven't grown tired of salmon and chiam? Like, I love those, I love those too. And they're always connected and they're always, you know. But I keep, what I do is I've got a handful of images on my iPad and I can cycle them and I make them new somehow. And that's part of the challenge. but what I've also done, Aaron, is started carving. Wow.

And so I'm using, I'm treating the mural business, like a business and like a service, and I really want the clients to be happy. And then I'm also serving my artist with a separate practice. I love that. And I can't wait to see. It's working. Yeah. Yeah.

And eventually I think they'll blend together. We'll have mixed media carving and mural pieces. which would be fun. Jack of all trades. Or a couple. Yeah. The other piece, and I have to confess, this wasn't my question.

Tim had a really terrific question. And it was around, you do a terrific job of doing the geometry. And there's a very complex thing there that's taking place that I get lost in, but then there's this other piece that's very, like, more relatable, and it's characters, and you feel

like you're connected to them. Like, this reminds me of the movie, Brother Bear, if I'm being honest. So how do you choose which style you're going to use? That's a client request thing. Because I have a bit of a portfolio when a client says, I'd like a mural, I say, do you like the geometric abstract, or do you like something more organic and flowing? And they immediately know what they want. Or they say both.

Which is fun too. On the geometry side, where did that come from for you? Because that seems unique, like unique among unique. I don't see a lot of that. I love. I think I was trying to create something 3D because I couldn't carve. I was trying to make, to use light and shadow in a way that would help things kind of hop off the wall a little bit. And so I really just started like studying in life how light.

hits certain surfaces. And these shapes in particular are just sailish-wollen patterns. Once you know what they mean, you can kind of organize them in a way that tells a story. And so they can either tell like a really rich story or they can just tell a kind of a straightforward story. And so in an effort to create something that's sort of 3D, but, but also a nod to Salish weavers, this style came out. And at this particular wall with the swoose,

because we couldn't decide if it was a swan or a goose, this particular wall had like one and a half two inch depth to it. It was a corrugated metal wall. And so we couldn't actually hand paint anything, and everything had to be taped. and sprayed. Yeah, and then like the level. So we used like a level as well.

But I don't know if you've ever taped anything that's not flat. We would hold the tape and then put the tape on and it would go off in a upward or downward direction every time. But that was the limit. This was created through the limitation. That style of goose was created through the limitation of the wall material. I probably would have opted for something with more sailish design in it

if the wall was flat. So multiple questions and this is the challenge of being a host or an interviewer is I have to try and pull back the amount of questions that I have but one of them is around the beauty of the geometric shapes falling

which is the water flowing as the bird flaps its wings you told the story a couple of years ago would you mind retelling how you saw that and how you took that in? watching geese or watching swans take off and land sometimes it's really graceful and sometimes it's kind of clumsy but at a certain point it looks like they're running on top of the water and and these the effect of shapes kind of breaking away and tessellating in my mind our human self

recognizes cycle within that. I don't know if we talked about this a couple of years ago but I love tessellating kind of breaking away shapes because sometimes our lives do that.

But there's always like this forward motion in the piece, not to create like breaking away and falling apart forever, but like breaking away as a part of something new being created. Like a phoenix. Sure, yeah.

Yeah. The other piece that you mentioned, and I just can't resist asking about it, was when we first spoke, you said something and it sat with me. Like I think about it pretty regularly. Rebecca can attest to the fact that I bring it up pretty regularly. And it's that you said you see things in your head in 3D and that you have a tough time putting it into a 2D medium. And a lot of people say, like, everybody's creative.

I'm not that creative. Like, I do not see things in 3D. And I do not have visions of, like, ideas that you have for painting or creating that you do. I might think of, like, an interview question that I have, but it's nowhere near that, sophisticated. And I'm just interested in that creative endeavor. When you see something, you talked about how you try and sit down and draw it and write it down as soon as possible. Where does that come from for you? Where does it come from?

Oh, I don't know. Oh. So this, I've got this idea that came. There's, okay, here's this, there's a place. Maybe you go there. You're almost awake, but you're not quite sleeping. And you think something or you see something. There's so much nodding. We go there.

I don't know. I do not go there. I don't know what the, no. It's like the space, the space between breaths, right? Whoa. And what do you call it? Liminal. Thanks, Mark.

So inside this space, sometimes when I'm waking up or if I'm actually relaxed enough, there'll be a concept that kind of pops out and it pops out as like a whole picture and I might only see it for like that long but if I feel it and it resonates, I'm going to try to hold on to it.

And the bear upstairs with the, volcanic explosion and the bear made of ash like that piece came from that place um and so these kinds of pieces they they hold space a little bit differently than than the pieces that i'm like conceptualizing like the eagle that's next to it i love that eagle i spent countless hours painting the light in the shadow on the eagle but i just like put a rose in there because eagles and roses right So currently the idea that I'm seeing things now for the first time because I've started carving, I'm starting to see ideas in wood. But I can't produce them.

I don't have the skills or the capacity to do them. So I just have to hold on to it until I have some of those skills, I think. that's kind of what I like to do is hold on to them. What a gift. Like, what a unique ability to have that I just, I really cannot resonate with. Like, I'm just in awe of this idea of being able to see something before you go to sleep or have an idea that you want to bring out into the world that you only have moments to put together. Like, for the most part, it's like, I'd like to interview that person.

They said something interesting. It's not, it's not this deep or it's not this, like, risk of losing something. there's risk yeah yeah it's a really upsetting to have an idea and then be like oh what was that idea and anybody who like writes a song or writes a poetry and like you're like oh that's a really good line or you hear a riff and you lose it it's hard you might never get it back you might never get it back and the value of that in comparison to what somebody says they'll pay you for it feels like it's really important that you cherish wherever that's coming from beyond the opportunity. Somebody says they want a mural painted.

Like, it seems like that's something special that you have that other people don't have as a gift. Do you agree? I cherish it 100%. I do. Yeah. Yeah. Can I ask the audience, how many other people have creative endeavors that just flow

into their mind at random times? And how many people do not? and they just go to sleep and they have a great night. Most people, I feel like, are not in that boat. That's why I find it's so important that we recognize you for that because as you were talking about with young kids, is like they often have a gift. And Eddie Gardner did the best job of kind of highlighting the role elders can play

of going into community, going out and watching kids and saying, they're going to be a great leader. They're going to be a great artist. They see these things. And these are the things we need to cherish within. Like when we say culture, these are some of the cultural, components that I think are so important. I mentioned it in the preamble.

In 2021, you were illustrating this piece weeks before the flood. Isn't that wild? I cannot. We interviewed weeks before this. Yeah. And then the flood. With our masks on. With our masks on.

Would you mind talking about this piece? And did you prospect? Like, it was right in this moment. Like two weeks later, you draw this piece. You're talking about the Barrow Town Pump. then like a couple weeks later we have an atmospheric river that really I think changes our understanding

of the community we live in of the risks we face and we're still working on trying to get flood mitigation to protect the valley and we're starting to have this conversation around how do we bring the lake back do we leave the lake the way it is do we try and protect our communities

what was it like to create this piece and then see it a couple weeks later have this impact it was wild because the reach offered us these archival photos and so I was sifting through archival photos and the pieces are these interventions, digital interventions on the archival photos

just to kind of like offer this modern flashback, right? And all the things about the lake that I thought it was were kind of disrupted when we were. making the book, how shallow it actually was, how seasonally large it was, but when it was out of season, it was quite small, and where the villages were in relation to where the villages are now, very different. But getting to know the lake through the photographs and then watching it show up on social media, it was crazy. Yeah. Do you think it should come back? Personally, I think the lake should do whatever it wants.

And in some ways it will, I guess. Yeah, the lake's going to do what it wants. And one of the things that I thought was interesting, when I was drawing this map that shows up in the back of the book, and there's an outflow, and that's precisely where the dike breached. The dike breached where the outflow historically was. and was flooding back in, back towards the lake,

right, back towards the prairie. And I, I thought, wow, you know, like our elders say, the land remembers, and it sounds super epic and, like, romantic, or the land remembers, but the land remembers. The land remembered exactly, right? Like, the substrate would be the same, and the pressure point is the same, and boom, the breaking point. of the dike was precisely where the outflow was.

I just finished this piece last week. When we talk about land acknowledgments, I think I mentioned this when we talked the first time, I feel like they're so often just disconnected. They're just names of communities. They're not talking about what that relationship was, what their responsibilities were, the place names that were important to the community.

They need to have these pieces. And I feel like this piece so well illustrates the importance of understanding your connection to the land and understanding the pieces and those place names, would you mind talking about this piece? So what you're saying here, it teases up a bit of feelings about land acknowledgements. And I just want to offer that it's important

that we have some grace and that we're adaptable because when something is new and we're navigating it together, it's going to change. It's going to evolve. We're going to make it better. And so we're kind of in the beginning of land acknowledgements and they're already changing, right? I was at Hope, Coquahalla Elementary yesterday

and the grade one class had a written land acknowledgement and the teacher was holding it up and the kids were reciting it line by line. When I was in grade one, we looked up, at something on the wall, and we recited it line for line, but it was God save the queen. I didn't see that happening at this elementary school. I saw them reciting a land acknowledgement

that they wrote with the local indigenous community. We've got to take a moment and step back and be like, okay, this is going somewhere. You know, these kids are growing up, recognizing value in place, history, the people are still here. They're thriving, they're surviving, there's difficulty, right? And so I just wanted to offer that briefly. This piece was hosted by Adi. Rundle, and the principal had a concept that was chiam and salmon.

And it was beautiful. It was beautiful. It's still chiam and salmon, but it's the... the pull-out salmon shuohiyam. And the shu-hiyam like this is, you know, it was carried forward into a time when things started to be written down. And then I picked it up from the archive,

the Stalo Research and Resource Management Center archive. I connected to it. The characters are under the Japanese maple there. You can't quite see them in the shadow. the characters in the canoe are going down river to steal sock eye baby and then when they steal sock eye baby they come back up the river and they're throwing the dirty diapers into the creeks and those become sock eye runs so that's the long story short

but the figure in the dress is a few things if you're driving down hawking you can see it from like all the way down hawking and that was the principal's plan like she she pivoted to this because she wanted to have um she wanted to have this representation there and so we're calling it the biggest ante on the block um but what she's she's wearing a red dress and and that's important right now that's important for for those of us who have lost loved ones um you know and and the grief is very real and the trauma and the trauma is a very real. And the fear of being an indigenous woman alone in a parking lot is very real. And so we're having her in a red dress for that reason. But she's wearing paddles. And paddles are

growing in popularity and culturally. They still have a strong symbolism to them, but you're starting to see them more in public now. And to me, that means that the world is getting to be a safer place for these paddles and maybe someday the meaning of those paddles will start to surface into the public as well but there's a bit of debate about her gesture so when you when you have a woman and her arms are raised out and she's not holding any weapons you're welcome right or she's grateful I understand that it's the gesture is a little bit different for a man like if a man's arms are all the way out it means something different and that's why the house post at the tourism center has one arm kind of elbow tucked cultural nuances like that but she is welcoming back these salmon coming up the river because that's part of the the ongoing work that the people are doing to have these first salmon ceremonies as the as the springs come up the river in the background you can see faces if you look closely

because Chilike has three daughters and those daughters are always close to her and so the faces are kind of tucked in as well and there's like

a tiny longhouse there as well yeah did I answer your question I'm sorry. Absolutely this piece is is, it's so powerful. I feel, because the school didn't just say,

we want Aladdin acknowledgement. They didn't just say, we want a story mural. They said, we want to learn the story, make sure our kids know the story, and carry it forward. That's what I love about this, is that there's depth to it. What is it like to know?

You were talking about this, I think you have a story of the one on Mill Street. Ken Popo, the mayor, was walking past. I love that. And you understand. some of the vision there, but you start to see other people have their interpretations.

What is that like to have your vision and then have other people have their own interpretations of your work? That's art. I think that's just art. Yeah. For sure. I hope that the interpretations are close

to my intent, but sometimes they're not. You talked a little bit about this. The willingness to go wherever the work takes you go big legs yeah sometimes you got to go big legs this is remarkable the size of this is absolutely remarkable to see you stand and see the scale of this work and to take this on what is it like when you hear the opportunity and you go okay i'm gonna try and build this and bring this to life and it is gigantic it's fun

um sardis elementary asked for a mural and said whatever you like and i was like cool I want a heron, like, let's do a heron because they have that little pond. And then we did the heron and they said, no, I think we want like a canoe and some mountains and stuff. And I was like, okay, let's do canoe and mountains. And so I had this heron kind of sitting in my portfolio

and Tyson came in and said they wanted the chiactyl, the weir, the fishing weir. And I said, I love to. do a weir, but a weir is not a super strong focal point. A heron would be a really strong and they agreed, right, so long as the salmon and the weir are there, that they were happy. But it needed, there's also a hummingbird in this piece. They wanted a hummingbird as well. But there's a subspecies of the blue heron locally that is, I believe, a threatened species.

and so that's what this is. This is depicting the Great Blue Heron that's threatened locally. Incredible. I just cannot believe the size of the work you're doing. It's so fun. It's fun to see. This is UF.E.

Yeah. Another piece I wanted to talk about is I think what's becoming more known is this idea of the four directions. And I had the opportunity to speak with, Roy Vickers who does this work, but he's from a remote community up north. And I love that it's something that's consistent. And you brought this to life, as you said, in UFE. Would you mind talking about this? I actually learned something recently that contradicts the four

directions. And that's that the Halkamelam speaking, to Hulkomenum speaking, people don't have cardinal directions. And that the word that we have that describes to the west is about going downstream and the word that the islanders have the cowichens have to describe east

is to go across the water so it's reference based or it's like geographical where your position is kind of over the mountains or you know the south wind is referenced as something that's a bit warmer

and so that would connect to the south rather than having cardinal directions. Wow. This piece is about seasons. And the discussion that led to this piece was about food ways and the importance of eating in season and how that helps sustain connection

and ecology and continuance of culture as well. So the colors there, blue is about winter, red is about summer, yellow,

about fall, and green about spring. It's absolutely beautiful. This piece is done in acrylic paint on like a six-foot PVC circle. And then we just inlaid it

and put some epoxy over it. It was there, it was there, big plan. I thought it should be vinyl. And I could just draw it digitally, but the people who ordered it said hand

painted has this quality that vinyl never will have. And I 100% agree. So we handpainted it. And it's, yeah, it's got a good it holds a lot of space. That was the other question

Tim had was around how do you choose what utensils you're going to choose. How do you develop that? Just been kind of picking things up along the way. I recently started using like a semi-brilliant exterior paint, and I like the way that the gloss or the subtle gloss kind of picks up texture on the wall. That's kind of fun.

If a south-facing wall or like a wall that gets sunlight most of the day is to be painted, I'll order the highest quality paint I can get because I don't want my work to fade. I want to see these things last a long time. If I'm doing something indoor, I'll definitely pick a high-quality indoor paint as well. I use deluxe for everything, and that's not a sponsored shout-out.

But I do believe in their paint, and the Vancouver Mural Festival was helpful and steering me towards their paint. But if it's geometric pieces, we're going to use tape and spray paint. I just want to shout out to Deb, who does the geometric work. I'll design it,

and she's got the patience to paint it and the precision to paint it as well. But we use Montana, MTN-94, which is an artist's quality spray paint. And the finish is fantastic. So it really, a lot depends on the surface. or the exposure, things like that.

Fantastic. I want to talk about the impact that the murals are having because I do think that they're a part of the shift in the conversations we're starting to have. What does it mean that you have so many murals? You're having such an impact. People are here tonight to hear your voice because you're the one leading the way

on being able to change the culture and start to share the gifts of First Nations through the value. I don't know. I don't have those conversations. We'll have them right now. Are they having, are you having them without me? You know, my brother asked me the same thing.

And he's doing his good work in the health field. And I feel, I do feel a responsibility. I'm completely thrilled that I get to. do this work. It's such a joy. It's really physically like laborous work and I don't think I'll be able to do it forever. So I'm in like a mad rush to like do as many as I can. And they should make a bit of a ripple in the conversations that we're having. Representation matters. Our kids seeing their culture and, you know, their regalia on a wall makes a difference. in their life.

And in a very, very colonial landscape, the one that we have, every single piece of art makes a difference. You know, even the way that we become allies and how we dress ourselves and how we approach our young people makes a difference in their lives. And so I'm at these places and kids are pretty shy. They say all kinds of things. But for the most part, kids are pretty shy. They don't have those conversations.

But I'm having a lot of conversations with neighbors and teachers, parents who are dropping their kids off, who are open to asking those questions. Why are you doing this? Why are you doing this here? And so I've got to have those answers prepared. I love that because growing up, I wasn't particularly proud to be First Nations. I visited the First Nations room, but there wasn't the sense of pride. Now being able to see your murals through the community gives me that sense of pride, being able to understand some of the land and even being able to embrace the idea

that my ancestors have been here for 10,000 years. It's still something that doesn't, it doesn't click. It's not easy to process the idea that when Sonny tells me that my great-great-grandfather was hunting grizzly bears and the process that he went to to hunt that. And he's explaining to me who my family relatives, are, is still something so much to take in and be able to see leaders like yourself and go like, wow, it's such an honor to know her. It's such an honor to be able to interview you tonight and be able to have these conversations. Well, thank you. I'm really grateful for the

space, the space to share a little bit more insight into what's going on, kind of behind the scenes. This picture is interesting because the schools were doing something about like six, like six, like six animals and they were relating those six animals to healthy qualities and characteristics in children

and I said this really really is kind of like sitting uncomfortably in me and really close to spirit animal you know like

and we're trying to get away from that we're trying to get away from that kind of tokenism and it was probably two years I went ahead and I painted these figures and I was like, it's okay, it's your job, you know, we're just doing what the client wants

and representing however I could and then that curriculum was stripped from the system because it was inappropriate. So there are a few schools who still have those figures on their walls but they're no longer telling, they're no longer telling that narrative. Right? Right.

Like, yeah, of course we can look at animals and find characteristics of strength and admire those and adapt them for ourselves. Yeah, that's very human of us. But we can't say they're all the same, right? Like, a bear will mean something completely different to you than it means to me. And it probably means something different to, you know, our grandparents and our great grandparents. And so we can't just say, a bear means this.

Yeah. One of my favorite parts about this is your ability to really pull out these ideas of geometry and shapes and culture and start to share that because the idea of that three dimensions that you were talking about initially is really interesting that that's one of the challenges of this 2D medium is trying to figure out a way and doing this geometry is a way to get there. When you are creating something, how do you address these problems where you have this idea in your head and you want to be. bring it to life. How do you start to adapt to that? Um, hmm. Light and shadow, I think, is an important part of it. And, and it's funny because when, you know, when we're looking at something, we don't say in our minds, light shadow, light shadow, light shadow, but we know when it's off. And if so, if you see an art piece and it's off, something feels off about it right so the dark um the dark part of these shapes all appears either on

the bottom or the left side of them it's just consistency yeah yeah i really want to appreciate you because i think the work that you're doing reconnects us and it's been such an honor to be able to speak with you but it's just an honor to know you and to know that there's people with different understandings, like I feel like your philosophy is incredibly deep. And your willingness to dive into these issues and topics and understand them in a more meaningful way is something that sets the example for the rest of us. Because I'm still learning about many of these topics. I'm still trying to grow. And I think all of us are trying to figure out how to learn about these things in a good way. And you, every time I talk to you, I learn something new. But I also feel like

there's such grace, understanding, patience. When I see somebody trying to pronounce the language or something and somebody jumps on them, I'm always like, we're learning. Like, we're all trying to move together and paddle this boat in the same direction. And we just, we have to slow down and support those people. We're still learning, we're still growing. And I feel like that's what we can really embrace during national indigenous people's day, National Truth and Reconciliation Days.

We're like, we're on this journey together. And we're all committed to the same end goal. but we're all at different stages on that journey and I feel like you're so good at protecting those people who are still learning you're very patient and your understanding but all of this work that you're doing allows us to understand and start to see like

wow, that's incredible and I want to learn more about that and I feel like art is really that starting place for people where they can start to go I want to learn about the language I want to learn about the culture, the history, all these things that's the starting place for so many people and you're a beacon for so much of that work

and I just, I feel like we all need to give you a round of applause because you're the person in the Fraser Valley that's really setting that example. Oh, I-chka. Thank you. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. And everybody who's willing to go out,

like out of their comfort zone to help make those ripples bigger, right? It does require us out of our comfort. its own. And that's one of the things that maybe our culture needs more of. Our Canadian culture needs more fumbling and holding space for others while they fumble their way through a learning process. We really have a high expectation to get it right the first time. But we're human, right? I spent some time with some Japanese folks on the peaceboat. I don't know if you guys know the peaceboat. Trough circumnavigates the globe and they stop in 18 countries.

and it's really cool. I was doing workshops on the peaceboat, and people are so willing to just do something they don't know how to do, even if it looks completely foolish, and I was so inspired. Look how much fun you can have if you don't care how you look while you're learning.

Yeah, but thank you for holding space, for making space, and for the kind words. Well, I do feel like we're all lucky to be able to discuss this. I mean, the pieces to be able to hold up are just incredible. And I'm so grateful that we're able to share this with everybody. After this, we're going to have another opportunity to go out, look at the artwork through this new lens where I feel like it's important to give people space after you talking, to go and look at those pieces again and see it through the lens of the work that you do

and how you choose composition and setup and shadows and all of that and be able to see it through that new lens. I think we should embrace that and continue to learn. and so I'm so grateful that we were able to share the time together. I think we have something else coming up. We will do a few questions if anybody has any questions for Carrie Lynn. Just raise your hand and we have Rebecca with the microphone and it's important that you speak into the microphone because we are live recording this so people can hear it.

We have one right in the front here. Thank you so much for this. It was a pleasure to listen to. I had a few different topics that maybe you might want to talk on. You can choose one. Or more if you'd like. One was about plants. It was earlier at the beginning.

Another one was about art. And another one was about mentorship. If any of those interests you. Let's talk about mentorship. So my question for that was you had mentioned, I think for the Vancouver mural festival, you were introduced to a mentor who did graffiti primarily and helped you a lot with it. And I think Aaron touched on it briefly during this.

What role have mentors played with your either First Nation history and or art? And do you mentor at all? Or how do you see that role or your responsibility in the future to help other people do this fantastic work? Cool. I believe in mentorship and mainly because I think people learn so differently from one another. And I'm a person who doesn't do well in a classroom setting, but I can watch somebody do something and then try to do it myself and, like, don't try to help me. But if a teacher is really good, I can, I love to learn from them as well. And so I've had some plant practitioner mentorship, minimal art mentorship, but I'm currently in a carving, I have a mentor for carving and language as well.

And I really believe that the life experience and the kind of the moments that go like in the moments that go in life along with learning are important as well. And those don't always happen in a classroom setting. And so when someone can offer practical advice, I love that. I love to, I'll just eat that up. Last year, the Reach Gallery and Museum in Abbotsford asked me to mentor for young people to do their first mural. That piece is at the Aurora coffee shop in the alley.

way. And so start to finish, we did a mural together there. I really enjoyed that, but it's a whole different way of thinking than to actually just start a mural and do it myself. I opened up my practice this year to friends and relatives on my social media. Come by my wall, I'll teach you how I do this, and then I want to start handing projects over to other people as well. Um, nobody's quite ready to do it, I don't think. Nobody came through. I might have to ask again. I might have to ask a different way. I might have to grab somebody by the wrists and pull them along. Um, identifying, of course, that this is not just like sitting down with a sketchbook. It's, um, you know, it's spatial thinking. It's physically, physical labor. It's, it's mostly project management. Um, and then of course, public relations. right serving clients who don't speak art we know what we want we know what we don't want but we know what we want right like and so all the moving parts right and finding some finding somebody who can pick up all those moving parts and move with it that's what i am hoping for um and when because

there's quite an there's an abundance of of work and so i want to i want to share that yeah um young people though I'm teaching a little bit of work on the iPad, so sketching on the iPad and kind of where that can go as well, I'll do workshops for that as well. Yeah. Wow. Other questions for Carrie Lynn? Anybody? How do you choose? Like, you're a rapper, you're a painter, you draw, you're like card wild wool. Like, is it just the flow? Is it what draws you? Is it what draws you? Is painting the thing that kind of brings you the most joy? Painting's paying the bills, to be honest. Okay, okay, that's what I don't know. It's almost like an energy inside. If I look at my wool and I'm like,

I don't have the energy to do that. Or I look at my carving work and I'm like, I'm not in the right head space to do that because Cedar responds differently. Sometimes painting, because the materials aren't as alive, I can just sit down and do it any time. but I've usually got like a list of things that I need to kind of get through as well. And so I'll tease myself by doing the things I have to do so that I can get to the things I really want to do.

It's like housework. Thank you. Yeah. Beautiful. Any other questions? Because I'm ready to. Okay, one more. So the pieces that you've brought, there are several that are not for sale. And it seems to me that there's a difference between

how you feel about those, what they mean to you, and some of the other works that are happening. And I'd like to know the difference. The pieces that are not for sale belong to people already. Yeah. And so the new, the portrait pieces that you're, seeing. That's my new work. And I'm just beginning to explore that. And right when I start doing a new style, I don't like to sell it right away because it takes me a long time to produce.

Like the piece that you see in the little hallway over here was probably close to about 80 hours. And so what I'll often do is gift those pieces or trade for those pieces. with people who I can then go and borrow them from when I have a show or something. I do feel differently about those pieces. And I'd love to do like a print run of them someday because they do have stories. And I caught up to a few people in that little hallway

and we were talking about what the layers of earth and sky mean and how they represent in that painting. And so they're story-rich pieces, but it's not obvious. So I'm still working through the process of how to share those stories on those pieces. Thank you. I'm hoping to go launching in that direction of kind of realism or whatever it is. Yeah. Thank you.

On that note, I'd just like to really appreciate you. When I brought this idea to Carrie Lynn three months ago, you were like, okay, I have some work to do in order to get ready for this event, and I'm going to have to do some work to prep for this. So a lot of the work that you're seeing, we were working on, you were working on and leading the way on trying to figure out how to share this, this artwork with people so that there is something to share because you're so busy with so many things that when you embrace this and said, I'm going to figure this out and start to get the pieces ready. I was very grateful for that. Cool, cool, yeah, special pieces for the show. ones over here, these little carved necklaces, up late at night, chipping away. Just a lot of love for stones. Stone beads inspired those pieces a lot of times. And I haven't done a run of prints in a long time, and these two really pushed me to get them ready. And I worked with the printer

over here, and they had them done in a matter of days. So, yeah, I appreciate the push to put some things out into the world again. Yeah. And thank you to everybody who's bought something. Yes. Round of applause for Carrie Lynn. Okay. Anything else?

All done? All done. Okay. We'll see you guys outside. Yes. Yes. We will have Carrie Lynn out there. Hopefully with the balloons.

I'm hoping some people can get some photos with you. And we have our wonderful photographer, Alex Hart. So hopefully she'll be there. be able to talk more about the prints. And before you do all of that, unlike the two of you, I am not comfortable being in front of the camera, but for this situation, I thought it was worth it. I don't know if any of you actually know

why it's called The Bigger Than Me podcast. So the Bigger Than Me podcast name comes from wanting to do things that are bigger than himself, just like his grandma, Dorothy Kennett. So Dorothy Kennett made a long legacy of helping others and ensuring that she did right by her community. And that's exactly what Aaron does. Anybody who knows Aaron knows that for sure.

When you walk into a room, everybody is in awe of you. Everybody listens to you. You do right by people. You inspire people. You talk to people who inspire you. You're always going above and beyond. Yes, exactly. Give a run of applause for that.

I mean, that's absolutely true. And as you unravel this, this gift was in work. with Carrie Lynn, so I can't take all of the credit for this. As you unravel, you'll see the significance of this. Again, it has to do with your grandma. I know that she was a very special person to you, and Carrie Lynn and I tried to work on something a little while ago, and she remembered this, so I thought it was very beautiful.

If you want to hold that for everybody there, it's a beautiful red cardinal, which was your grandma's favorite bird. So she will always be with you, right there. and I thought it was so nice that Carolyn decided to do that and carve it out of her memory and she remembered that from the last time that we spoke and you're so special and I want you to

know that, that you're my biggest role model and you inspire so many others and this night is not just about one thing it's about all that you're doing for everybody and how they make you feel. So let's give a big round of applause to Aaron Pete and Carrie Lynn, Victor, for doing this.

There we go. And if you have any words, Aaron, you can take it away. No, we're all done here. Thank you for coming. Yeah, my grandmother was one of the most important people to me. She set such an incredible example. And my mom's right up there. And I don't think her or I would be here without what she did, taking my mom in.

and I'm incredibly grateful. You're incredibly welcome. Thank you, Carrie Lynn. Thank you, Rebecca. Have a good night, everybody. We're all done here. As I said, there will be opportunities to take photos with Carrie Lynn. Outside, Alex will be right there, ready to go.

Thank you all for coming. There will be more drinks available, more stuff. snacks available. So please enjoy. Thank you all for coming and we will see you shortly.