Nuanced. - 174. Mass of Man: Is Music a Tool for Healing?

Episode Date: November 4, 2024

Nico DeGiacomo, also known as Mass of Man, joins Aaron Pete to explore how creating music as an artist helped him confront challenges like depression and bullying. They discuss his powerful lyrics, collaborations with artists like Vin Jay and Gawne, and the healing role music has played in his life.Send us a textThe "What's Going On?" PodcastThink casual, relatable discussions like you'd overhear in a barbershop....Listen on: Apple Podcasts   SpotifySupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

Welcome back to another episode of the Bigger Than Me podcast. Here is your host, Aaron P. What does it take to reach your full potential? What adversity do you have to overcome to get there? I'm speaking with an artist who's overcome bullying and depression and shares his journey through his music. We explore this and so much more. My guest today is Mass of Man.

It is an honor to sit with you today. I can't thank you enough for being willing to take the time. First, would you mind introducing yourself? My name is Massive Man. I do emotional hip-hop music that talks a lot about mental health and personal struggles. Yeah. Many have an origin story, a route where they start from, where they get into things. Can you take us back to the beginning?

Yes. My brother, when I was younger, had a cassette tape. Black cassette tape. It was like a NWA, and he's like, see this music? It's called rap. It's bad music. I can listen to it, but you can't. It's not good for you.

And I was like, you know, piqued my interest. And I was like, okay. So I'm like, I got to hear this rap stuff. As I got older, Eminem came out. It was super popular, started listening to that very heavily. My dad had a, my dad was listening to it at the time. It was kind of crazy. So I listened to it, a girl.

I was dating, listened to him. And, you know, I got into listening and loving how he rhymed words and put them together and kind of fell in love with it. But the time high school came, there was some kids rap battling in the lunchroom. The main one, his name was James Travis, went by MC Checks. I mentioned him in one of my first albums. Yeah, yeah, my first album weight of words, I mentioned him, got to pay my respects to MC Checks. If it wasn't for him, my life would still be a mess. like I said that

he really like got me into it and stuff and we would just wrap out all the time and lunch the lunchroom and then I would go home and I got like this Bob Barker looking microphone from the Price is Right was like a computer mic

and I downloaded Audacity that free audio program and I started making songs and doing some fun stuff and trying to create my own music and it went from there and fell in love with it. I kept doing it and doing it and doing it.

I was so proud of the process. It relieved so much stress from me and made me, you know, chill out when I was writing, you know. Depression is a reoccurring theme in your music, particularly with the song Fallen Angel. Can you talk about how that topic is resonated with people? I created with Mack Harrison,

this song called Fallen Angel. it starts off the lines where like high depression how you've been it's been a long time we meet again and it was a dialogue between me in my inner depression and that is my most viral song to this day it's definitely about 40 million streams or more right now um between all platforms and stuff and it really changed once that song took off it really changed my music career and then i started putting out more stuff like that and just built a really big fan base and audience for myself so may i ask when you have a song like that the writing process to me seems like it would be really heavy i know the song it's one of my favorite songs by you um but it just feels like that amount of concentration

to put that on paper to share that to voice that it sounds therapeutic are you able to walk away from that feeling and go have lunch and live a normal day? Yeah, 100%. When a song comes to you, is it carry with you a little bit? There's a very, there are songs that carry with me. Like when, for example, like I've had a song that I wrote that I completely broke down and was crying while I was writing it. And that was when my friend passed away.

I made two songs for them. I made the other side about my friend Sean who passed away. and I made Not Fair and Not Fair was written the day he died and like that song like messed me up writing it like I was in full blown tears crying as I was writing it but as far as Fallen Angel the writing process it's kind of strange because I didn't prepare writing it me and him suggested we suggest to each other we go to the studio just see what comes out and it was the most natural song to write because I've experienced it and he had to too that it just came out within like two hours of bro we just sat down there and we're just like

let's write this song my engineer was like messing around with the beat and we just created that masterpiece and like two hours it just flew right out of us it was so easy to do because i guess it was so relatable and we had a lot to say about it you know one of the other topics you cover is bullying and i'm wondering how you were bullied what those experiences were and how they came into the music um so this is you i'm i'm six foot six i'm 650 pounds right now is a big dude in freaking school so i mean like i but i was also super nice and gentle and didn't want confrontation so like as much as i could like scare people off there was people that still messed with me you know what i mean and i let it you know i kind of i was i was always the

victim of it i mean i never really fit in you know i never like school. I think that was the worst period of my life. I didn't want to go to school at all. I've had people throw food at me in the lunchroom while I was just sitting there eating food. I don't know. Like, you know, I heard what they say about my weight in appearance and stuff like that. I've heard girls gossip about like me and stuff like that. It wasn't really physical of being punched or hit or nothing in school like that, but it was all verbal. And it really, really, really mess with me because I was a really genuine, nice person and just wanted to fit in, you know. But as we became adults and got older and people matured, things did definitely become easier.

And I feel like I changed my life around with the music. So, I mean, things just became easier in general as I got older. But anybody who's in school right now and they think this is the end, this is all life's going to be, this torture, it's not. It gets better when you get out and you're in the real world. I mean, you do have to work, but, and sometimes there are bullies in the work situation, but it's a lot better. You don't have to see those kids ever again that were assholes to you. Are you able to find peace with those memories and experiences? Like, I was overweight. I was called chubby chicken man and experienced some of that.

But it seems like at sometimes success is its own kind of cure to those experiences, like the fact that you've kind of come out of it. I've got people apologize to me, you know what I mean? Like people in my adulthood say, man, I'm sorry for me and such a jerk to you know. Yeah. But then the other pieces, it also seems like there's sometimes fuel that like it's not that you're holding them a specific person accountable, but having those naysayers, having those haters when you're in the studio or when you're getting

ready to go and you're getting after it, that knowing that there were those people can add like a little fuel to your flame. Oh, it definitely does. Sometimes I'll write songs about people like that, you know what I mean? So it's just like, you know, whatever, whatever they say, it just doesn't bother me anymore. I'm at a place where reading hate online, I just don't care. I'm like, there's so many more people that care about me that that, that, that, that, doesn't affect me, you know. So it just gives me fuel to prove them wrong, you know.

Exactly. So do you feel like you have peace with, with that aspect of your life? And do you think most people are able to achieve that? And how do they go about doing something like that? Good question. I think I'm at peace with it now. I don't let those, those days are rough for me, but they don't define who I am. You know, it doesn't define me that I had all those struggles. And I think I can't speak for everybody because I only went through my own situation, but I do feel there's hope that that's not high school is not the end-all, be-all, you know, where it doesn't stick with you forever. You could move across the state and find peace somewhere else with new people that are just

great to be around. There's people out there for you. You're not alone, you know. This might be a tough question. but I'm just wondering in Canada we have a lot of anti-bullying kind I don't know if it's the same but like this anti-bullying push no so you're from Canada I work yeah we're recording from Canada and so we have a lot of anti-bullying messaging and the only thing that I think back on is some of those moments I wish hadn't have had like they're

not fond memories but like you don't know what turns you into the person that you are today. And some of those experiences may have shaped me into the person I am. So I wouldn't remove them if you gave me a magic wand and I could just erase that memory. Same. I don't think I would remove them either. Yeah. How do we find that balance of wanting people to feel safe and not overly bullied, not where there's harm or there's people not wanting to be alive? But having some adversity that helps shape them and strengthen them so that they can become the person they're meant to be. Yeah, I giving me deep

questions, dude. I don't know. I think like I said, I think we do need some hard, tough times in our life to learn how to deal with struggle. And like there's definitely going to be some kids that

do it to you. And I think sometimes it's good for you to kind of shape your future. Like, hey, I don't want to be like this guy who's doing this to me. And you know that because he's treating people badly but like I really don't know how to answer that question man it's like I think we need a little bit of it but not too much of it but like I don't know I don't want to see people hurting or or you know wanting not to live anymore because

somebody treats them a certain type of way it's in some way it does develop thick skin but it's not needed all you know all the time okay I don't know how to answer that man I'm sorry my next question is about how music plays such an important role when people are going through those things to have an escape from their circumstance or to be understood as you described Eminem was for you is being able to have those voices you can turn to when it feels like you're completely misunderstood how did that impact you and what does it mean that you get to carry on that legacy for others oh okay I like this question um I I hear all the time I get messages that I didn't ever think

this would happen to me in my life but I get so many messages like hey I was about to commit suicide but your song came on Fallen Angel and it really spoke to me and it made me not want to continue down the path I was going or it made me feel

understood some people like some people look at me and they're like why would you listen to sad music when you're depressed and a lot of the answers my fans give me is because they go because I feel understood and it makes me feel safe. It's not always about changing your mood.

Sometimes it's about just feeling like someone else out there gets you and the struggle you're going through and you can like relate to knowing that someone out there relates to you is a very powerful thing, like knowing that you're not alone. And I think that's the most, like that's what I get from fans when they message me. And I think it's very cool for me, you know, and sometimes it helps me continue doing what I'm doing because sometimes I have really depressed days, but there's so many people like, hey, man, we need you. You help us. And it keeps me going, you know. I love that because one of the things I struggle with is I don't think I often show outwardly my emotions, but on some of my best days, the places I go to are sad music. I'm not always sure why that is. But there's something comforting in the sadness. Yeah, I get that too. Having people understand you during the heavy moments where maybe you don't feel like your thoughts align with how people think you are.

For sure. You also talk about depression, as you've mentioned. And I'm wondering how you approach that as an artist, because one of the musicians I listen to a lot is Juice World. And I just think about a lot of where he was. Like, if you actually listen to the words he says, he says, I am on a cliff. Like, I am ready to fall into a burning hell. That is where I am. And he's just singing.

Like, he's making music. But, like, if you actually realize that that is actually where he was, because then exactly what he predicted, in many of his songs, he predicted that he was going to die. And then he died. And, like, there is this connection that you have to take in order to make us. song you have to go to a heavy place in order to make a heavy song how do you maintain that relationship in a healthy way well here's here's something not many people know that like i am not as depressed as i used to be like i'm not in that same headspace that i was when i was younger

um i'm doing better for myself i'm learning you know i still struggle with uh obviously weight um is my biggest struggle in life and the thing that i don't have figured out yet and um I will, you know, get depressed because of it. But when people hear all my depressing music, they genuinely think I'm super depressed, but I kind of know that my, it's like a balance that I have to deal with because I make depressing music, it sells, it works, it helps, you know, but whenever I make a happy song and try and, like, switch up, it's not perceived well. So I kind of have to, like, go back in my bag of when I was feeling this way or when I was

feeling at this time and kind of create something that the fans can digest that I still feel proud of that I can release. You know what I mean? Because I'm not doing as bad as I was. I'm not perfect. I'm not great. I'm not cured yet. But I just, I feel like I put in a song, it's like if I'm making an album, they seem to embrace it. But if I'm making happy music, they try and tell me to change you know in one of my songs um it's just uh it's hard um it's hard to give the fans what they want and still be like genuine you know what i mean because it's it's it's hard i think i'm stuck in the spot where i can't make any other music but sad music which sometimes brings me down i'm not going to lie you know that's exactly what i'm thinking of because nk47 has that song is

that what you wanted. And it's literally about the same idea that what brought you to the dance is a chapter of your life. But often you're ready to close that chapter and move on. But they don't want to let you. But people know you for something and come back and they kind of just want you to wash, rinse and repeat the same type of music because that's what they've come to know you for. That's your brand in their mind. And so it's hard to transition out of that over time. So now you're kind of linked to your demons in a way. Like I see that for NF, and his recent album, Hope, was his first step kind of trying to get out of that world.

I thought that was brilliant. I thought that was brilliant for him to do that. What were your takeaways from that? Were there any lessons? I'm like, it's possible to get out of this cycle that I'm stuck in by slowly shifting my way in a digestible way. Like, the way he did hope was just crazy to me. It's like it still felt like the same NF, but it talked that there's hope.

And I feel like if he continues on with an album and there's, you know, more happiness that comes out of it. I think that's a cool way how he transitioned. And I kind of want to take notes because he is my favorite artist. I do anything to get a feature with that guy. He's him, Eminem, McElmore, MGK, like I listen to all the hops. And I'd love to, Tech 9, I'd love to get a feature with those guys one day. Yeah, those are definitely voices that I, that I turn to and I'm very impressed with.

Another heavy topic you go through is domestic violence. How do you resonate with that topic? So I, this is, I wrote a song on domestic violence, but I want, it was more of a storytelling song mixed with a little bit of reality for my life. At one point, I was in the most toxic relationship. And I was young. I didn't know that, you know, there was so many options out there. And, you know, and I got with this girl who I'm not going to name any names, but she would, you know, bring me up, put me on a pedestal, then knock me down and then repeat and rinse and repeat. And it was just an unhealthy relationship.

I'd be watching a TV show cuddled with her in the same room. My mom's sitting on the couch in the living room and this is when I was younger and I'm just watching a TV show of a girl who got, you know, like her bra on panties on the show and I'm just watching TV and she would smack me across the face saying you were checking that girl out, like very insecure girl and just didn't know how to handle her emotion so she would always hit me because of it. And I'm like, man, you know, not too many people talk about like getting hit by, you know, the partner. So I kind of went on a storytelling, two different storytelling songs about domestic violence. I'm going to be honest. I grew up in a good household. My parents treated me good.

I didn't deal with violence as a child. My parents are great. And I wouldn't want to have any other parents. But I took that scenario that happened in my life because it's happened with two different girls that had put their hands on me and I've never put my hands back but I ended up you know twisting it into this domestic violence song is kind of how it was more of a storytelling thing I haven't personally really like other than those incidents haven't really struggled with that and I don't want to you know lead people in the wrong direction so no that's that's a really important message to share because you're right I don't think we hear that story very often and the challenges that you can being. Yeah. So I thought it was something to put out, but I, you know, I honestly, if I could have

redone it, I wish I would have put it out in the perceptive of a man getting domestically abused other than the woman, because I think that's not talked to. I don't know. You know? Right. Yeah. Can you, can you tell us about your writing process? How do you go about making a song, developing it? Does it, how does it flow for you? Okay. So I have a routine. Like, I will wake up in the morning. On days, like, some days, I'm like, okay, it's been a while. I haven't made a song. I got to make a song to continue, you know, my music career. And I will wake up in the morning. I'm like, okay, for this week, I'm going to try at least an hour a day. I go get a coffee and I sit by the overlook, which is the, I live by the ocean. So, just watching the waves crash

in the water. And I just sit in my car, turn on beats and start writing. And if something doesn't come out, like, doesn't spark within an hour. I'm like, okay, maybe. today wasn't the day and I'll go try something different. I never go with a plan. Very rarely do that. Like, well, I go with an idea and just start writing it. Whatever the beat inspires or whatever, you know, the mood of the beat or whatever, I find kind of one, like one starting line and then continue off of that. I continuously make a song out of one starting line of a song. So I'm like, if I say like two kids in a broken home, it slowly developed into a domestic violence song. Or I'm like, I don't want to go to school mom.

The kids are mean is the first line I come out with. It comes out as like what victims did. You know, it just I base it off a starting line, what I'm feeling in the moment, what story can I tell. Excuse me, what story can I tell and things of that nature. It's kind of how I do it. There's this idea of like meeting the mute. and the muse being the place where creativity comes from and that you as a creator have to over time start to like meet it in order for it to meet with you as well and you have to come prepared and sometimes

it doesn't always show up it sounds like that's what you're talking about this idea of meeting the muse yeah yeah i would say so i mean there are sometimes where like i'm like i want to make a song about this exact topic and i don't stop until i do it but that's like a lot more stressful so you know, stressful on the writing process, when I can solely create and just like with listening to something and hearing the mood it sounds. And I'm like, let's make an epic banger. Or like, let's make, you know, the storytelling songs are sometimes are more planned out if I have a storytelling idea. But for the most part, it's just like grab a coffee, go sit by the water and see what you can create listening to music in the morning. And that's kind of how I put out most

my stuff. Was that a transition from it being a natural curiosity and kind of a personal passion to turning it into a structured regimented approach? Yeah, I started, when I first started, it was me writing lyrics without even listening to a beat and trying to form them over a beat or, um, and sometimes like I'll write, uh, write a song and to a rant. And to a rant, instrumental or I know the beats like a random like metronome or something and know the beats per minute and then have my engineer when I go into the studio to create something from scratch. There's sometimes where I literally go into the studio and he's creating from scratch. She's creating a beat out of nowhere. I'm like I feel like writing something like this today and I'll create a beat out of nowhere and we just start writing as he's making the beat. So it's just like there's different processes but I think the most comfortable one that I am. is literally hearing an instrumental and writing to it in the morning with some coffee. Amazing. Where does your name come from? Okay. I'm a big dude.

Right now, I'm 6'52 pounds. I just weighed myself that I'm not going to lie. I'm not happy with my way. I'm trying to change it as we speak. But I was in mixed martial arts class when I was younger, and I had a friend, his name's Evan. um he goes dude you're he was you're a man of mass right and i went by many different names my first name real name's nico so and my last name starts with a d so my first rap name was nico d then i didn't like it and we moved on and me and that friend evan turned it into legacy and his was dead star and we made a random mixtape called The Legally Legal.

And we had so much fun just messing around writing music together. And then I'm like, I don't like the two rap names I had. I got to come up with something better than that. And he knew I was in the search for a rap name. So we were at mixed martial arts class. And he like bumped into me, he goes, dude, you're a man of mass. And I said, he goes, you know what would be crazy? he goes, if you made that your rap name, because it spelled, M-O-M-O-M spells out mom, massive, he's a man of mass.

He goes, he'll be cooler if we did mass of man, because it sounds like massive, you know what I mean? And we just kept going. And then we started cracking jokes like, oh, yeah, all of us walk into a bar, guy starts problems with us. And we say, we got mom in the club with us. You don't want to mess with us. And I'm like, you brought your mother, then I walk up, you know, just being stupid. And it just kind of formed the name. And then I ended up getting it tattooed on me, you know, so.

And I stuck with it. It was weird how it happened, but it happened. How do you feel about rap names? Because it's somewhat unique. It's one of the only, music is one of the only areas where people have alternate personas that the world kind of knows about. In the business world, you don't really have that as much. So what is it like developing a rap name?

I feel developing. It's just, I don't know, when it fits, you know, it fits and like it made sense to me um but it's i get to play this alter ego you know that i that i'm in love with it's like and a lot of people don't know like okay for one example when i talk to girls right it's usually nerve-racking as nico but when i talk to them and they know me already as massive man easy i can be the most confident person like i'm i'm such a confident person as massive man but such a shy, you know, don't want to speak up, you know, in my hometown, you know, I'm just like very like, hey, you know, hi, how are you doing?

And then we'll, hey, what's up? You know, I just, when I'm an ass a man, it's two different people I play. It's like a character, like a persona. It's weird, but it's interesting. The other piece we've touched on, and I'm just, I think everybody's on a journey of self-improvement, no matter where you're at. And I think there's something, I believe it's an old Chinese proverb that you have to love the person you are today, that that is the starting point, that you have to, wherever you are, whatever your challenges are, whatever you'd like to improve, you have to love the person you are today, and because that's where you're starting from. And then whatever trajectory you want to go on from there is fantastic, but you have to love the person you are today.

I agree with you. I'm working on it. Yeah, you talk about struggling with your weight. And I'm just curious, are you able to love yourself today for who you are? And is that a journey in and of itself? Because you're very kind and thoughtful and you're willing to do this interview. It's an honor to speak with you. But I'm just curious how you grapple with that. Dude, I'm true answer.

I'm not okay with who I am today. I want to improve. I want to do better. I want to. I'm just, the weight is such a strong journey that I deal with. I've lost it like three different times in my life and gained it all back. And I notice now when I'm posting TikTok videos, there's way more comments about my weight and like digs taken at me and insults because of my size when I'm doing these TikTok videos. My videos are getting a lot more attention because people have something to talk about and a lot more views are coming from it and stuff like that. But, you know,

I want to be healthier. You know, I want to be able to do things like when I was a kid young and be agile and stuff. And I'm just like, I'm fighting and I'm struggling to get back there. Do you love yourself today, though? Yeah. I mean, like, I love everything about my, like, character and things. But the one thing I don't love is how I've let it get this far. Like, love how I've gotten, you know, this heavy and stuff.

like that yeah so I'm working on an album and I have a song about it like wanting to striving to be perfect you know so are you able to tell us more about that journey because it's one thing to make a song it's another thing to make an album and try and have the stories connect um can you can you repeat that question one more time I'm sorry you're working on an album I'm just curious if you're able to give us insights in how you make this this upcoming album potentially because it's different than writing a song because you have those stories somewhat connect more than just individual singles. It's just like kind of like a wacky album with stuff all

over the place. I'm not going to lie. There's, there's a song about like finding your true love. There's, uh, well, like, will I ever find the person? There's a song about like my weight. There's a song about me being bipolar. It's just like all different emotions packed. into one this whole album. It's like they connect and like if you know me they connect but like if you're just

discovering who Massa Man is it's going to be a roller coaster right so do we have a release date? No we don't have a release date but I have two out of three videos done for singles that we're working on. I want to release one

single hopefully you know if everything aligns right in November then another December, then maybe the album song comes out with the album. Maybe if I can get all the ducks in a row and everything edited and finish and all the song's done, probably January, late, January, late February, late March, like somewhere in that three-month period, maybe March seems like the most realistic, you know. so i'm excited are you able to tell us some of the things you've been cooking up recently because you have some fantastic songs with some pretty amazing features um so that weight song has the big one like a really big feature on it it's chris calico from strange music he's done a song with m&m and tech nine on the same song which was called speed him he's a really really talented

artist and really well known um i have i can tell you the features i have on the album i have messetti who i work with quite regularly i'm going to try and put vin j on one of the songs again love vin j's dope i have nk47 and chase on another song um that one is called so evil and we just shot a video to it it was really fun i just got done shooting two videos like two days ago before this interview for the album. We flew Anakin who films all those guys' videos to come film my video with these guys, and I'm working on

this album is going to be called Dead Man's Paradise because we created a song that had the words Dead Man's Paradise and it became the chorus and it's different than what I normally do. but it's very, very well done. And I want to go all out for that video. So that's going to be the one that releases on the day of the album.

I cannot wait. You've also done some really cool features again with Vin Jay and Gone. Look at me now. Can you talk about that song? Because that one was one where I also further discovered you and started to do the deep dives. Yeah. So the first time I worked with Gone and Vin Jay on a song together, is actually becoming my biggest song right now.

It's called Lights Out. I posted a video on TikTok of it. It got 1.3 million. I know it got 3.2 million views on a TikTok clip of me just wrapping it on the microphone. And I'm getting it's it's like 3 million on every other platform just and it's skyrocketing up every day. And it was such a cool experience. to meet with them. We went to this haunted overload house. It's called haunted overload. It's like a haunted attraction. And they let us film there. And we did so many special effects. I was holding my

own head in the video. It was super cool. And then once we did that song and it worked, I'm like, oh, look at me now. I got to have you guys again. You know, so I just, I don't know, I love working with those guys. They're super talented. Ben Jay has become such a good friend of mine. He's like, I would consider him, like, I got to go, you know, we got to hang out all the time now. He wants me to come up there. He's been here quite a few times now. Okay, I just have to confirm for that song, is that kid okay? Because that kid's his kid. Dude, I have that little child who ran through the video, he was the most dedicated actor I've ever seen. We hired him through like an actor service thing. And he was like, he watched us put on the makeup so he knew it was all

pretend and all fake and stuff like that. That whole Vin-J scene where the kid was there and Vin-J was there being this demon with tentacles and stuff, he didn't even know who he was. They never met. It was like someone was done on green screen with Vin-Jay and he's like, and the director was like, look up, open your mouth, we'll let this, the smoke's going to come out of it. Like, we just coached him like that. He

we did part separately, you know what I mean? But But together at the same time. So he saw me chill in there with my makeup and talking. I'm like, oh, dude, I heard you're doing such a good job. But his mom and father sent me a video of him watching the video when it came out. And he's like, it's awesome. I got to watch him again. And the sister, the little sister was scared of it.

The kid loved it. He actually came back on another project with Ben Afford doing that because of how much he loved it. So he looked like he got terrified and scared the crap out of. But he enjoyed the whole process. That's amazing because, yeah, my partner and I were watching it a couple of days ago and I was just getting ready for this interview. I'm just like, is this kid really that scared? It was just hilarious. He did really good job in acting. He had to like pretend fall through a floor and then we had to edit it that he fell through the floor. And yeah, it was just like he saw all the makeup being put on. So he knew who we were beforehand.

And he loved it. And he just followed directions so well. His name is Noah. And he sat there for like 11 hours. that day just doing listening to direction which blew my mind as a kid that young like to follow directions that well was crazy to me that your your whole production on that video was just like really phenomenal in terms of the quality you're like that was really like theatrical movie level like footage it did not feel like uh i don't know i watched some of these music videos and i'm like why did you why did you make this this is this is just kind of somebody doing this and they're like it's not why this didn't need this music video and that was phenomenal so i with that video those are my more expensive videos that i work on uh they're done with the the guy who does

joiner lucas and tokens videos he used he doesn't do joiners anymore i think the last video they did together was uh uh the one with j cole and joiner uh like i broke your heart huh like that it was that that song um but he did the i'm not racist video for Joinder Lucas where the black and the white guy were sitting at the table and you know having a conversation about race and he's got and he was nominated for a Grammy for that video um so he's he's really talented he works with some really big names interesting i'm i want to talk more about vin jay because he's become one of my all-time favorite guests how did you two link up and what is it like to have a friend like him uh it's awesome

to have a friend like him. He's such a nice dude and he's so down to earth and uh, it treats me really well. And, um, how I met him was, uh, I've wanted to work with him. Uh, my friend at the time, Cam, known as the real young swag, reached out and got a feature with him and Cam really talked highly about me to Vin. Um, and, uh, you know, so Vin, VIN then knew who I was. And I said, hey, I'm doing this project where people are, you know, putting money behind it and stuff and wanted you to be a feature. And I think the first song we did together was like kick rocks on that project. Like now I want to do actual projects that I run and have the control to, you know what I mean?

So he said, yeah, I'll do another feature for you. And we made it work. So and just became friends. He kept coming down here. It's like he came down like two more times, do two more videos. and we talk all the time on the phone he does some of my live streams with me he's just a great dude i couldn't agree more there's a few things i really admire about him one it's nice and i think this is something i see a lot when i'm speaking to people from the u.s is there's an admiration for

excellence like there's a there's a drive towards not what everybody else is doing or what everybody else is focused on but there's a drive to be your best self to deliver the best product to do the best you can. And I don't know, I just feel like a lot of times it's kind of like that, that poppy season where people don't want you to get too high up or too low. Like, we all just kind of want to fit in rather than doing a really good job. And VIN's a really good at admiring excellence and wanting to deliver excellence for people. So that's one piece that stands out to me. So whenever I tell, like, whenever I put somebody on a feature, I want them to do bad. Like, I feel like I've done good at this song. That's why I'm passing it to you. please outshine me please do even better than me like i don't care if you do better than me it's just going to make the product better you know what i mean like i want my friends to i i don't care if they have a better verse than me i feel like i did phenomenal on this verse and that's why i'm going to pass it to you now you do phenomenal you know so that's that's kind of what we we do with each other

we're not very competitive we want to see each other grow like yeah i really admire that the other piece that i really like about vin is that he wants to surround himself with good people or at least that's like what i get to see from you guys is that you're all willing to support each other and see each other grow in the endeavors that you're passionate about and i just i find that's really admirable and i see it more with artists and like music creators than i do in the podcast world like i've had people on who have their own podcast there's not that community spirit of like could we collab could we do this could we open like there's just more of a desire to collaborate and see everybody reach their full potential which i really admire yeah hell yeah

that leads me into another question about you one thing that really stood out to me that made me excited to speak with you was you arranging this this um this tour date with everybody and you got every artist to create a small little video and i was chatting with nk 47 on the phone and i was like like how did that come about like that's so cool that that happened he was like man that was all nico he said it up he told us what he needed from us we just had to deliver and so it made it easy because i can get stuck in my head and stuff and i really like that because it's a challenge to be i think an independent creator to be trying to grow your own thing and when you have somebody like yourself that's willing to say hey we've got this going on this is what i need

from you and we're going to make this great i think that just shows your willingness to collaborate and help people reach their full potential so could you tell us about that experience Setting all of that. Just that whole video. So I'm like, hey, I knew all these guys and they're all friends of mine, but they're also also friends with each other. So we looked at this is like this, this concert is this big hangout and Nico is going to cover it all. Nikos is going to get us all down here. Niko is going to make it happen. And we're all going to get paid. So we just, I just wanted to throw, I don't do many shows. So when I do, I wanted to make it big and grand. So I flew all the guys out here. We got an Airbnb. And. wanted to make this concert happen. I said, guys, I needed you to send me photos to yours. I try to make it as easy as possible. I said, guys, I need photos of all of you guys that you want to put on a flyer. I'm like, and then I said, I want to promote this. So I'm like, what's the best way we can do it? I said, what if we all say that I wrote up a quick script, right? And I just gave everybody the script. I said, there's a teleprompter app so it doesn't

look like you're reading off the script. Give them the app, gave them the thing. They looked in the camera made a selfie video while reading but looking at the camera and it was yeah it was just like that and they sent it to me and i had a video guy of mine chop it up and binks who also he does audio and stuff do the audio for it just you know make it all sound kind of professional so i just think you should be really proud of yourself for that because a it's hard to get people to do that type of stuff being in this world trying to get people to collab trying to get people to share photos and stuff for the promotional part of it. But like, I was on those guys. I need, I, hello, I need this now.

Like, I got you. I got you. So it's a little stressful, but we may I imagine. Is that going to be more? Are we going to see more of that? Because I really like that style. Yeah. To be honest, yeah, like if you're asking if there's another massive fest, everybody wants to do it, but I'm worried about my weight being a factor. It was a huge factor when I was doing it already. I want to lose more weight and be more agile to be on stage and not be so out of breath and, you know, but yes, I'm sure something like that's going to happen again. I'm super excited for it. My last question is, what advice do you have for independent creators who are trying to figure out a way to go down this path well i have quite a few advice so here's one um

one big advice don't want to become a rapper for the fame and money do it because you have a genuine interest in it and it makes you feel good because you're not guaranteed to blow up you know what i mean um and it's like any other business it takes money to make money you need to invest in studio time. First, you need to invest in getting your skill to a point that it's worthy to invest in studio time and things like that, but just don't do it because you want to be a famous person and want attention because it's just, it's not going to work out for you. If there's going to be a lot of hard times where you're going to wonder if this is even worth it or not, you know, because if you're doing it for the wrong reasons, you're just going to fail.

is you know how I look at it but if you're doing it because you generally love making music the fame comes after you know after you put in all the hard work and so um that's one piece of advice um I want you to know that anything's possible and if you want to be a rapper it is really possible because if you have a passion for it um it's not impossible it is it is a lot of grind in the beginning to build your initial fan base um but it's not because it's definitely doable my parents told me you know like every other parent it's once in a lifetime that someone discovers you and makes you famous and yada yada yada stuff like the odds of you becoming a rapper or so slim think real think real you know but i i noticed that no one was going to come

to save me and that's not how i was going to get there no one was going to come and scout me i had to put in the work and build my own brand um and that's what i suggest you do don't wait for someone to give you an opportunity put in the work invest in the studio time make the constant content um get people to know who you are through you and what you do and not hope someone discovers you one day because you're talented because that's just not how it works anymore um people do not come and say, hey, you're talented, I'm going to throw a bunch of money at you. They look at how many streams you have, how you can make them money, and that's when they discover you and give you resources. I honestly prefer to be independent than having somebody to take a

percentage. That's just me. There's definitely different routes you can go, but I do well for myself um another piece of the i don't know i mean what other advice could i give uh have to think about it nothing's nothing's coming to me right now because it's like the biggest piece of advice is do it because you love it don't do it because you want what comes with it i guess that would be the biggest piece of advice beautiful and that it's possible it is possible it is possible Would you mind telling people how they can follow your work, check out your music, how they can connect with you? Okay. Every website is backslash M-A-S-S-O-F-M-A-N, Mass of Man.

You can find me by searching Mass of Man on YouTube, Mass of Man on Spotify, iTunes, Apple Music. If you're having trouble remembering Mass of Man, remember that the acronym for is Mom. M-O-M-O-M. Yeah, man, I have mad music videos out there. I have a lot of songs on Spotify. I have a TikTok. I have an Instagram, a Facebook, a YouTube. I have it all.

Amazing. Thank you so much for being willing to do this and share so much of your personal experiences. I really appreciate it. These are my favorite type of interviews because we actually get to know the person. Well, dude, I am honored being on here. I see what you're doing. And when me and Vin talked about you and your podcast, like he doesn't have the craziest amount of followers, but he has potential. I said, let me see his videos.

I said, yes, he does. I'm coming on. I said, because usually we gauge these things by how many followers, people have, how much attention can it give us? But I saw your channel. I saw your camera quality. I saw how professional you were. And I see you're building a brand that I think long term, it will be very good to get to know you and who you are because I think you're going to do big things one day, dude. I appreciate it. That's so kind of you to say. I feel the exact same way. Please go check him out on Apple Music, Spotify. He's the man. I appreciate you being willing to share the time today. I've learned so much. And I just feel honored that we were able to take the time.