Nuanced. - 2. Tim McAlpine - How To Start a Business

Episode Date: September 9, 2021

Tim McAlpine has a deep understanding of credit unions, entrepreneurship, and running a small business. Tim McAlpine is the founder and CEO of Currency Marketing, and the founder of Cowork Chilliwack. He is also a creative entrepreneur, father, husband,  Director for Mount Lehman Credit Union and Director for Chilliwack Economic Partners Corporation. He is also the organizer for TEDx Chilliwack and the Director for Startup Grind.His mindset of revamping and updating your business plan is sets a strong example for other business owners.  In his full Bigger Than Me Podcast interview, Mr. McAlpine says “Don’t fall in love with the solution, fall in love with the problem”, which is great advice for individuals considering starting their own business.Cowork Chilliwack: https://www.coworkchilliwack.com/Currency Marketing: https://www.currencymarketing.ca/aboutStarting a business? Here are great local resources:Stó:lō Community Futures offers support services for Indigenous owned/controlled businesses within S'ólh Téméxw, the Stó:lō Traditional Territory from Fort Langley to Yale, on both sides of the Fraser River.  Our offers include business counseling, access to loan capital programs, business training workshops, and growth guidance. Visit their website to get started: https://www.stolocf.ca/Community Futures South Fraser serves small business owners and entrepreneurs in Chilliwack and Abbotsford.  They provide basic business advisory services including free one-on-one coaching conversations for small to medium-sized business owners. If you’re wanting to grow your business in a specific way, we have a specialist that can help. Visit their website to get started: https://southfraser.com/Community Futures North Fraser serves small business owners and entrepreneurs in Harrison Hot Springs, Agassiz and Mission. They provide basic business advisory services including free one-on-one coaching conversations for small to medium-sized business owners. If you’re wanting to grow your business in a specific way, we have a specialist that can help. Visit their website to get started: https://northfraser.org/Send us a textSupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

Mr. McAlpine, it is a pleasure to sit down with you again. I am hoping that we can start with a brief introduction so people understand where we're starting from. As you know, this is the Bigger Than Me podcast miniseries on How to Start a Business Explained. I'm Tim McAlpine, a local Chilowack resident for 30, plus years. I want a couple of things. Co-work Chiloac locally and currency marketing is my design marketing business. We specialize with credit unions.

I'm involved in all sorts of things locally from being on the SEPCO, the Chilawak Economic Partners Corporation Board, a local credit union in Abbotsford. I'm on their board, Mount Lehman, TEDx Chilowak. I'm the organizer of that, startup grind Chiloac. It's another thing. And then there's a Chilliwack Creative Commission, the Chilliwack Innovation Network, and sometime in all of that, I managed to do some work. That is awesome.

And I think that that starts at a perfect place, which is entrepreneurship. And I'm hoping we can just start with a dialogue on that, because my hope with this mini-series is that people can start to see themselves as entrepreneurs understand what that means, what role that plays in the community, and the impact that it can have on others. because I think they do play an integral role, but we don't, and we appreciate them, like we appreciate small businesses, but understanding the work, the sacrifices, understanding how to go about moving forward, having the confidence to take these risks

is something I'm hoping to illuminate, and you are a person who kind of hit the ground running from a young age and went on this path of being an entrepreneur and being a self-starter. So can you tell us just a little bit about how that came about for you? for me entrepreneurship kind of happened early i think my first business was age 13 i started a BMX freestyle trick team uh i had some odd jobs during you know paper route and and i really realized i wanted to get into graphic design early and that's something that was really energized me at school so i sought out a job at a local sign company uh kind of after school and on weekends, and then from there, decided to go to college for a graphic design

diploma at the University College of the Fraser Valley, which is now UFV. And it just sort of happened for me. I started doing design jobs on the side for friends, family, and then word of mouth happened. And when I graduated from, even before, I was doing my sign company job for a while and then had this other side hustle, as they call it these days, and just sort of went for it. And so it happened organically and really have never looked back. What do you see as the entrepreneur? What are your kind of philosophical thoughts on kind of being a self-starter?

What does that mean for the community? I think there's, well, the traditional path is you get a job. You're an employee. You go into a career. Someone's employing you. As an entrepreneur, you're in charge. of kind of creating your own job and figuring out what that looks like. In my second year of my diploma, I was talking to one of my instructors and asked,

okay, what sort of job should I be looking for? And he in broken English was from Austria and said, well, there are no jobs for graphic designers. And I was struck by that. And he said, what do you mean? Like, I've invested all this time and energy. I'm looking for a job. because I thought maybe I'd go to Vancouver or Toronto or epicenter for that type of thing

and he said no you create your own job and it was like a light bulb moment for me and it already started to happen and yeah so so there's two distinct paths and for me it was always the creating my own job path right and you call yourself a creative entrepreneur can you kind of describe what that means

sure that explains my entrepreneurship ADD to a certain degree. To me, a graphic design diploma or degree or background really set the stage for critical thinking more than anything on how to solve problems, how to identify what that problem is and possible solutions for it. And then over the years of that original graphic design business has more often changed and evolved and specialized and so forth. But it, to me, it's having an outlook of how do I problem solved and not waiting for someone else. to solve that for me. And I think a good entrepreneur is always on the outlook for what are trends and what's coming down the pipe and what do I see as potentially a pivot or something

that's coming up and how can I adapt to that. Right. So it's almost like a mindset. It's not just like you started a business one day and now you're an entrepreneur. You're kind of leaning more towards that it's a, it's like a philosophy of how you approach the world. It is. And I'm never waiting for someone to tell me what to do. I've often thought at this point I'm kind of wrecked for if I had to go find a job. And everything collapsed and all of a sudden I'm on like I've got to go report to somebody. I think it would be really difficult for me. Because I kind of, you know, set my own path and do my own thing and then have a team that that is along with that vision. Where did the confidence come in? Was that from the get go that you developed this confidence in yourself?

Like when you're entering that first meeting as like your own independent person, what was that process like to take on that confidence? Because I think that that's where a lot of entrepreneurs get discouraged is having the confidence to enter a room and say, this is my thing and I'm willing to take it on. I'm pretty subdued. I'm not the biggest, loudest voice in the room, but I built confidence by building my expertise. So I felt very confident in my skills as a graphic designer that I could talk confidently about what I could do for you as a client and possible solutions. And it just grew over time.

It's just one step after another and you've heard of fake it until you make it. I think there's some truth in that, right? You just have to kind of be the most confident person in the room about what you know. Right. I'm interested to know and to kind of start off with your education. what, because what I see is there are some small business owners who kind of look at traditional education and going to university as like not interesting or I was never a book person or I was never a school person and so I'm interested to know what courses you might recommend to people to consider taking not a full degree or diploma or anything like that, but courses that they can get under their belt to help them move forward in a higher quality direction like accounting or finance or marketing. Is there anything that you took? or courses that you think would benefit potential entrepreneurs?

One of the things with the course I took, it was a two-year diploma course. I actually did it over three years because I was working part-time. But I made sure to also take a number of electives. So one of them that really sticks in my mind was an entrepreneurship course. There was a marketing and communications course, which was outside of it. Writing, media studies, just things that were adjacent to what I would be going into and expanded my mind and background. I think many folks, especially if they come from an expertise point of view,

they don't necessarily understand the workings of a business, right? That comes over time through mistakes and just fumbling your way through it. But understanding basic accounting, what are financial statements and some of those things, you're going to be asked if it continues to grow, but you can pick that up along the way as well. I think when I think back, when I went to university, it was early 90s, and so the internet was just some animated gifts and cat videos or something like that, not even videos, right? But there wasn't this wealth of information. And so today it's pretty overwhelming, but if you want to learn about anything, it's there, right?

Right. So you're saying that even with things people should learn, they don't necessarily need to attend a university. developing those skills and tools might be better through something like YouTube or watching videos from people who are actually in it. Yeah, I would advise if school is something that you and your parents can afford and invest in, there's certainly value to it. I would be hesitant, though, to go into general studies and start racking up student debt if you don't really have a direction.

And I think there's a number of ways to start a business. one of the smartest ways is to have a business degree and identify a need that you're not potentially the expert at or have all the expertise around, but you have the business savvy to identify the need and then start to put the key fundamentals together. And so I think everybody's path is different. But when I see the amount of student debt and the cost of education, I think you should go in with more of a plan than I'll figure it out in my fourth year, right? Absolutely. I'm interested to know what do you think an entrepreneur should have when they're getting started? Like, what are the tools that an entrepreneur should have? Like,

should they know marketing, finances, what are some of the basics that they should try and have under their belt? Well, I'll come from my perspective. Mine was a service-based business. And so at the very outset, you needed to be a master of that service you were offering, or at least growing and continuously improving and so forth. Pieces around that, certainly starting out, setting it up right. Like if you feel that this is something you're going to do, even on the side, is to start to divide that up, that it should be a separate bank account, a separate credit card, a separate entity, than just trying to figure it out at the end of the year with a whole raft of taxes

and receipts and so forth. So do get some advice at the front end from a bookkeeper, an accountant, a lawyer. And then once you have that set up, you'll at least have the structure that you can begin to get out there and work. Marketing, obviously, word of mouth, social media. I'm not a huge believer in debt. In fact, I would avoid it. If you've got a big idea for something,

that requires leasing a space and building out that space and hanging a shingle, well, you can easily get him dead $100,000 before any money is coming in. So I'm a firm believer in keeping it simple and doing it on the side if possible. Can you elaborate that on in regards to currency marketing and how you kind of approach that? Because I think that that's a really great story of your mindset, of your philosophy, of continuing to pivot and update the information. Because as I think we talked about before, I think sometimes with entrepreneurs, we get so passionate with the final thought that it's hard to let it go and see where other paths might take you that might be more fruitful. Yeah. And things sneak up on you. So when I look back, I started my business in

1990. By the time 2000 came around, we were 15 employees. And I had overhead of $70,000 a month before the broke even and so that was the expenses related to the business from the space we were leasing to the employee overhead to some

computer leases and so forth and at that point I didn't really own anything and there was debt involved I didn't start with no debt but as I've grown and have perspective on it I think I would have kept it a lot simpler

what was the question again? Could you just walk us through currency marketing and how that kind of developed over time? Yeah, I'll give you the quick-ish view of it. So in 1990, I started a graphic design company called McAlpine Graphic Communications. I was on my own for the first four years and then I hired my first employee,

which was a graphic designer. And hiring that first employee does not double your capacity. In fact, I bet you may have, begin at 20% because now you're managing a person and your role is changing. You're you're now managing a person. You're dividing the work. And then we morphed. It became McAlpine design group and we began to grow in our services. At the outset, it was logo design and kind of what's now known as branding. And then it grew into full advertising, marketing. And we just grew from there that we had a full-time photographer on staff, about five designers, account executives,

a VP of account services, and so if you've seen Mad Men, kind of like that in a degree, and a whole raft of different clients all over the Fraser Valley and into Vancouver. And then by 2000, it was kind of, it had just organically grown without any real strategic direction, but I started to have a couple areas of client concentration. One of them was tourism, We were doing work for Rocky Mountaineer, the Rail Tour Company, Harrison Hot Springs Resort, Tourism Chiloac, among others on that side. And on the other side, we had credit unions and started with a large credit union here in the Chilawak area, First Heritage Savings, which is going to take a quick water break here.

No problem. That water glass looks smaller than it is. which morphed into Envision Financial, and we really worked with them for about 15 years. And with that, picked up a number of other credit unions. And so by 2003, renamed the company, currency passport marketing, with two distinct areas of specialization, currency for credit unions, passport for tourism. And by 2007, I had planned that one of those would edge out, and it was credit unions that took that.

We renamed the company currency marketing and really specialized in that and really grew our footprint from the lower mainland of British Columbia to at that point, starting to go across Canada. And then I really looked at how can I not just do bespoke custom projects over and over again, but can we build some sort of product

that we can develop and market at a greater scale? and so that was another phase. And today we have a product called It's a Money Thing. It's a financial education program that we licensed to about 130 credit unions most in the United States. So it was just one thing after another that led to where we are, always doing the day to day, but always kind of coming up and looking one or two years in advance and going, that's where I want to get to. I think that that's such a phenomenal example. and I'd like you to elaborate a little bit more on when those pivots happened.

How did you, was that like a week of thinking about it or is that every day looking at the business and kind of seeing it? What is that process like? Because having the passport and the credit union side is so brilliant to say, let's see which one wins out because that's kind of how we think is we have two different ideas of how we want our day to go or how a week to go and we try and figure out which one's going to make more sense. you let, it sounds like, money kind of guide which one was going to win over and which one had more need. And I think that that is such a, like, ground up approach to your business. And I'm just interested to learn more about that. Yeah, to me, it was a combination of money and also philosophical belief around the business model, et cetera. But when I look back at these decisions they were the first one we were general agency for anybody and you don't really have

any power in that relationship you are you are at the whim of the client you're always competing on price you're probably faster and cheaper if you're going to get in as the new provider and so forth, but if you build an expertise and a reputation, people are seeking you and you're able to charge more. So that's just fundamental on how a service business can work, right? If you're the low-cost provider, you're going to be constantly doing all-nighters and learning on the job, but as you concentrate and do more and more in that area, you grow expertise. And so we were doing that with credit unions. And I had joked early on that they have a vault and they pay their bills and it's a business that I can believe in. But over time, I really saw the power of that and

thought that we could apply our expertise to this particular segment and get smarter than anybody we were going up against. Nina had just said something similar, that she was passionate about Luna float, that that was something that really drove her to want to bring that to the community. You just said credit unions, it's something you could believe. in? Could you elaborate on that a bit? And what did you see in it? And why is it important to believe in what you're doing when it comes to business? Because often in TV shows, like, we hear, oh, it's just, it all comes down to money and does it make financial sense? And so this is contrasted by the points I think both you and Nina have made. So could you elaborate on that?

Yeah, I think there's a, there's pros and cons of both approaches. You can go into a business. You see a need. You have no care or intention of doing anything for that. As I was driving here, I saw, a new car wash being built, right? That's what can I do with this piece of land and with minimal overhead capital investment up front and then I just, you know, empty the coins out of the jar and away I go. I imagine that the person that's doing that is probably not super passionate about that, but they saw a business opportunity. On the service side, I think you do need passion. Even on a product side, if you're developing something, you have to have a certain amount of passion for it or you'll lose interest over time. Having said that, if you're so passionate about something and you put blinders on and there's no business model, that's going too far with it.

But for a long-term sustainable business, I think you do have to have passion and personal interest in what you're doing. Right. And I think that that's such a strong example for people to find a way to let their passion guide them. make sure that I like money as being like a corrector for whether or not you're on the right path. Because if you're not making money, it's an indication that you're not serving the community as best you can. And the more you improve profits, for the most part, the more you're indicating that people are enjoying it and that you're seeking a financial benefit from that. And so I'd like to move this a little bit more into how you think entrepreneurs should approach new problems and how they can kind of see forward and

see how their passions, like what made you passionate about credit unions? At first it was a new client, our largest client, but the more I dug into the business model, the more I saw that it was something that resonated a lot with me. So they're locally owned financial institutions that are owned by members. It's a cooperative business model. So if you're used to the local co-op, credit unions are based on that same cooperative model. So there's you as the owner, so you have a vested interest in the credit union. They offer very much the same services as banks. For all intents and purposes, from the outside, you may even call it, I'm going to the bank and it's your credit union. But fundamentally, the business model underneath

is very different. And especially in Canada, when you think of the large megabanks, all of that decision making is done in Toronto. And so it's very highly technical. There's everything's based on algorithms, very little on relationship. I'm generalizing, of course. There's going to be great local bank representatives, but ultimately all the decision-making is out of your community and likely all the profits are being sucked out of your community as well as opposed to reinvest it locally. Right. So can you tie that in with your connection with Mount Lehman? What relationship do you have there and how did that all come about? Because it is only one credit union. It's in a very unique part of the Fraser Valley. I just drove past it, I think,

a week ago, and I was just like, that was what Tim was talking about. So can you tell us how that relationship came about? Yeah. So as I grew our business in the credit union space, I had lots of relationships with different folks. And we did work for Mount Lehman, rebranding for them in early 2000s. Got to know the general manager slash CEO at the time and was really impressed with what they were doing. Meanwhile, I was with a much larger credit union and was starting to feel like it wasn't as personal. It was more bank-like. And when I was looking to consolidate both our business and our personal relationship, we talked to the reps at that credit union and we're really impressed and moved our business. So it's 30 minutes away, but it has all the

online features that you would expect from any financial institution. What do you mean by better than the other larger credit union were with? How does a credit union differ from perhaps other credit unions? So in British Columbia, they're all part of a cooperative system. So there's a central credit union called Central One that does all of the shared back office so they can compete with, so on the technology front, the banking system, the connected ATM network and other back office, so some will be in wealth management and do mutual funds and things like that.

That's all centralized, which is a really neat model, because it allows the individual credit unions to retain autonomy in their own communities and serve their own communities. And so, but I think that some have perhaps morphed and become more bank-like, more systematized in a sense that you're not necessarily getting a real person on the phone or have a or you or you tend to have a personal relationship manager that's a new one every year because it's just constant churn inside versus so i think that's a constant struggle from for any business is to retain that personal relationship edge as it grows and and i just wasn't super impressed with where we were at with the current one fair enough

And I think that this should be tied in with the influence putting your money into a bank account or a credit union can have. And so I'm hoping that you can kind of lay the landscape out for what it means to put money into a bank or credit union and how those funds can be utilized. Because for a lot of people, they just, I was near TD, it's a block away. So that's why I'm with TD. It has nothing to do with. And they don't even see when they put money in there that they're doing the financial institution any benefit. they feel that they're getting all the benefit and like perhaps the bank is doing them a favor by letting them keep their money there like there isn't this greater understanding of the power

that putting your money into a local credit union could have versus a larger bank so could you lay out some of the benefits of being with a smaller credit union and the impacts it can have on community yeah so I'm a big believer in the democratic process so credit unions have a local board They're typically either not paid or very little pay, so that's not the motivation to be on the board. Motivation on the board is to really help influence the direction of that credit union and what it's doing. And so a mandate, typically of most credit unions, is community involvement, and you'll see that show up in different ways. It can be, you know, a very visual way, like Prospero was on our Coliseum for the first 10-plus years, that's a kind of a visual statement but but beyond that there many are involved in

local charities whereas a big bank would probably say well we're not going to get involved in a local Chilliwack charity we can get involved in something like the United Way or something on a larger scale so you don't necessarily see that show up in your backyard a credit union and scale isn't necessarily what makes or breaks out like Van City is kind of the largest credit union and they they are completely driven by a triple bottom line. So it's what's best for the members. How's that money being deployed?

They're very much on environmental causes as well as diversity inclusion. They were the first credit union, the first financial institution in Canada to offer mortgages to women. Wow. Yeah. I'm sure that was a while ago, but that's... It was in the 60s. Before the 60s, you could not get a mortgage or any sort of loan as a female, which is ridiculous, right?

Yeah. And so they've really done many things like that. They were the first one to be involved in like a major sponsor of Vancouver Pride and things like that. In Chilliwack, for leasehold land, for indigenous land, Nina had talked about in our full-length podcast about how they were one of the leaders in trying to make land accessible so that. indigenous people could utilize it to connect with the community so that's just and that's on a local level but continue yeah exactly so so a certain amount of scale is important in the in their case and it really becomes down to like local leadership being involved in when locals a chamber of commerce there's always reps you'll see them involved in it's really pushed at that organizational level

and it's not just uh profit driven right and i'm hoping you can tell us a little bit more about Mount Lehman and what kind of philosophy they're driving because I think that this is for a lot of people the first time they're really thinking about their financial institutions and what does it mean to give your money to a credit union or bank to hold your money and how that can impact the community. So how does Mount Lehman approach things and what pulled you in their direction? So Mount Lehman is about 1,500 members and they have about $70 million under assets under management.

To put that in perspective, Van City has about $20 billion under management, about 500,000 members. And they're across the Fraser Valley in Vancouver and Vancouver Island. The largest bank in Canada, the Royal Bank, has, I think, approaching $2 trillion under management.

And so scale is very different, right? What drew me to Mount Lehman initially was the people that worked there and what they were doing. And so the bucket of members for Mount Lehman is about 500 or one-third that are in the general vicinity of this credit union, which is out in the countryside. And then the other two-thirds are away. So Chiloac, Mission, we've got members all over the place that have kind of sought out this really special credit union. in that it was the first financial institution in British Columbia to offer text alerts on any transactions.

It's been super technology forward for a small team of 12 people that's been really nimble and interesting. And it's part of a greater network. And so to me, that's what drew me there. They obviously don't have the scope and scale to do a tremendous amount of community investment. but in that local area are very involved in it's sort of the little community hub there. Right. And it sounds like you also worked with them to bring about co-work Chiloac.

Yeah. So can you tell us, I just had Nina on, and I'm interested to know your perspective on how somebody should get either a service business or a retail business. How should they go about starting that? What are the first steps they should be considering they're right out of the gates? What are the priorities you think they should be thinking about? I do think you should spend time with a simple business plan. And it doesn't have to be a 60-page encyclopedia. It can be something simple. I brought a simple one-pager from that we have. We've got one of our It's a Money thing content packs.

We call them is called writing a business plan. And it's a one-pager. And it has, you need to be able to articulate what the business is. How does it work? What is the market you're going after? and it can just be two or three points. But as you examine different ideas, is there a team?

Is it just you? What would that team look like? What would your first couple hires look like? Who are your competitors? Every business, no matter what, has some competitors, and it might not be a direct competitor doing exactly what, but something peripheral. So just list those out.

What is the market strategy? Meaning, how are you going to launch this business? What are your marketing avenues? How will you get started? how will you fund it? What do you need to get started? And to me, it's the bare minimum. So for Nina, that's a retail business, full build-out.

That's different than a graphic designer, obviously. So it's going to vary, but you really need to articulate what that is. And then finally, what are the numbers? What does it look like in your first three months, your first six months after a year? When are you going to be profitable? How are you going to fund this? How do you answer those questions? maybe we can do this in the lens of either currency marketing or co-work Chilliwack.

How did you approach these questions when you were getting started? For me, in hindsight, I've moved very slow, but in many senses quickly as well. Like, I'm fiscally conservative to a degree. and so if we think about co-work Chilliwark that was we developed that in 2015 so as this business I've described currency marketing was growing our our market was not Chilliwack anymore I had grown this or at least this space which was about 6,000 square feet it housed those 15 people really well but over the years as we specialized I kind of needed less people and it just sort of sort of morphed into a more specialized team.

And some of those specialized team are not in Chilliwack. So I've got employees in Vancouver, Langley, White Rock, up until recently, Bellingham. And only two of us, as time went on in Chilliwack. And so I saw an opportunity to buy the building, which was important to me. as an entrepreneur, you're foregoing Canada pension. You don't have, you're not contributing to employment insurance. So there's not the backdrop. You need to start thinking down the road if I'm going to do this as a lifelong career.

How am I going to fund that? You can still do your traditional RSP's and so forth. But for me, owning some real estate was important. And I had the opportunity to buy those two units. And I already had in mind what I would do with it and it was a co-work space. With my involvement with credit unions, I've traveled extensively and saw this trend happening starting, I would say, 2008 or nine, co-work space is popping up, usually in major metropolitan areas, but in a couple smaller areas I went too, I saw them and thought, hmm, this is really

interesting. It would give me an opportunity to kind of re-engage locally and provide an outlet or a resource for entrepreneurs locally. And so started small. Did a small area of it it filled up, renovated a bit more, and then a unit beside became available, purchased that. But all of that was done with, is this generating enough revenue on a monthly basis to warrant an expansion or another renovation? Right. I really want to know more about the process of purchasing the real estate, because for so many, that feels like a pipe dream.

Like if you said one day you're going to own a building, most people would be like, I can barely afford a house. So I'm interested to know the thought process. What are the benefits of owning such a building and what gave you the confidence to invest in something like that? Because for most people, that is a wild dream to them. So we were growing rapidly in the late 90s. I had outgrown our space and needed something larger.

And so that area that I'm in, just off Harvard Place or on Harvard Place, was a new development and they were empty warehouses and so i got in early and leased two units but they were bare and so as someone going into a lease especially in a situation like that you're responsible for the leasehold improvements and so and then also the lease you're paying to your landlords and so right off the bat i remember taking about about 150 thousand dollar loan to financing some of the early renovations knowing that i had the income with the design firm to warrant that overhead and and the nice thing about that situation i'm going a little off beat here but was that i was only leasing the ground floor so you lease a certain

amount of square feet and in that case it was 3500 square feet i put in an additional 2,500 square feet on the second floor, I only ever paid on that base floor. So that was a smart decision and I financed that leasehold improvements over five years, which coincided with the lease itself. I'd negotiated early on with that lease that I would lock in the same rate for five years plus another five year plus another three year term. So that was an important negotiation at the front end because it was a brand new tilt-up, uh, industrial space. The landlords were thrilled with that long-term commitment. Could you elaborate a little bit more on that commitment? Because I'm sure for a lot of listeners, that was important information,

but I'm sure that that's overwhelming. What were the benefits of that negotiation? Yeah. So as a signing a lease, I was committed to paying that rent or lease payment for five years. If my business went south or I needed to exit, I was still responsible for five years. With that, the longer you lock in, probably the better rate you can get. And then you have some leverage because I locked into that five-year, but I also said, I want another five-year and another three-year. So those have become decision points. Just like the previous space I was in, I think that was a five-year lease.

And there was no room to expand. It was about 2,000 square feet, and we were 10 people at the time, and you need boardrooms and so forth. And so you're basically negotiating on what that looks like. And if you're in a startup situation, I would avoid it a long-term lease because you don't really know if the business is viable at that point. But I was getting into this after 10 years in business

and knowing that I had a real going concern and could service that debt. As time went on, and so that was, the landlords were brothers that owned multiple buildings all over the Fraser Valley and over the years I constantly wanted to buy it from and have an ongoing kind of jokey relationship and I want to buy it and why would we sell it to you you're such a good tenant and well I'm going to leave I don't need this much space and why are you going to leave because you won't sell it and finally ended up purchasing it in 2015

Dean. So, but all of that was based to me on the ability to have the need for that space service. And so co-work Chiloac started as a mortgage helper essentially thinking, okay, this will cover the mortgage. And then we can use the space for currency marketing. And then it grew from there into its own kind of viable standalone business. Wow. Can you tell us what it's like to take out like a $150,000 loan because, as I said, for most listeners, that seems incomprehensible, like getting $45,000 a year in income from their job is what they expect, let alone taking on that kind of debt. Was that scary? Or did you look at the finances and there was a clear-cut decision? Yeah. To me, it was looking at the whole picture and figuring,

we need space for this business. There wasn't today's environment where you could do it virtually with the fast connection and so forth, the team needed to be together and to be productive. And at that time, I wasn't in a position to either build or buy commercial space, but I sure wish I was in hindsight, if you think of how things have escalated in price, but it all made sense. And throughout that time, we were, to me, it's always being profitable, not going in over your head. I would say, in hindsight, the only thing that I'd really go in debt for is property. Can you explain why? Because, as I said, I think that this is a really important conversation

for people to start thinking about owning assets and what does that mean and the impact that can have on your retirement. So what are the benefits of owning real estate like a building? And what are the benefits long term of being able to sell that and share that with people through a co-work space? Well, to date, and this may not be forever, but property has appreciated. And knowing Chiloac in its growth trajectory, you can see that over the last, since I've been here for 30 years, it's grown from 60,000 to 100,000 people. And at some point, we'll be out of space, right? But that doesn't seem to be stopping. So for me, even renting versus owning your own home, as soon as you can afford, to get into something you can own, I think it's smart. If there's a dramatic fiscal cliff on the outlook, maybe I'll be proven wrong. But to me, that's from an entrepreneur's standpoint, that's something you can count on down the road, that you can either hang on to it or lease it or sell it down the road.

And that becomes your nesting for your retirement. And so that's something I always look towards. it took me a lot longer than I thought to convince my landlords to sell. They were old and they, I think the younger brother at the time was 80. And it made sense for them to hold all of this property, but ultimately they saw that I was a really great tenant for so long and I think had some pity on me. So how does co-work generate revenue long term and short term?

So you obviously have people utilizing the space. Can you lay that out? But also, what is the nesting egg? How does that come to fruition when you're ready to sell out? What is that all kind of layout? So we've just bought our fourth unit. So we'll now have approximately 12,000 square feet. And in there, that will support, I think it'll end up with about 40 different offices.

So each one of those are a. we've got many small medium large offices extra large you guys are in our largest office and each of that is an affordable amount per month but collectively that adds up to more than just raw space would be worth if I were to own it and just lease it to one business for example and so the the long term is that it generates enough profit it to not only cover whatever debt there is on it, but also any expenses we have with it and then any profit. And ultimately, that property will appreciate over time. And should I decide to either pass it down to my kids or sell it, it's something that will be there in the future. As

opposed to leasing the space, you'd probably spend less per month, potentially, maybe not even. But at the end of it, you walk away and you don't own anything. Right. And I think that that is a conversation that's getting complicated for so many young people where they're trying to consider owning even a house, let alone a building and the impact that that can have on passing on to future generations. And so could you just tie that in for us? Passing finances down, thinking of your children, thinking of your grandchildren, what is that like? Because it does seem like you're able to think longer term, shorter term, and make plans, how rewarding is that to be able to be in a position to think of your children and your

grandchildren? Because if you think of the average job, people are planning on a pension, and they're kind of planning for their 65 to 80, and not really able to consider maybe they do get to put some money away, but being able to pass on a building or the amount of money that that will sell for, what is that experience like for you to be able to know you'll be able to healthily pass on financial viability to your children? Yeah, I think there's a few exits for for entrepreneurs. Just before I go there, the last thing when I was talking about only property is worth getting into debt for. So imagine you were an electrician and you need a customized van.

I think you're better to lease that because quite possibly in five to six, seven years that van will need to be replaced. and when you go to sell it, it'll be worth pennies on the dollar, whereas property will traditionally at least stay the same or appreciate. And we've seen that over the last, well, two years especially, that things have really gone kind of crazy. It'll probably correct. But over time, whatever you bought is going to be worth more. And as you diminish your debt on that, hopefully you become mortgage-free,

and then everything is coming back to you or your errors, right? To me, I don't know, I'm early 50s. I've still got some time. I don't see, like, Freedom 55, that isn't ideal for me. I can see doing what I'm doing for, you know, far into my 60s. And then even, you know, the ability to have this type of business, it's a bit hands-off for me. I have a community manager that manages the space.

And my kids, I don't know if they'll be interested in what my businesses are or not. But to have that freedom, I think, is important. Yeah. And so are you able to, was that always part of the plan, I guess, was to want to pass meaningful stuff onto your children, or has it all just kind of come together properly? I don't think I had a great upbringing but I paid my own way to

through college and so forth and we've put some money away for our kids with RESP and Aiden my son has just graduated and we'll be going to school starting next year we'll help with that but at this point

my wife and I will use all that money ourselves. I don't know. There's no master plan at that point, but I think it gives us the ability to have a bit of freedom as we get into the stage of potentially retiring and so forth. But I don't have a huge master plan on what our estate looks like at this point. Right. I just think that that's so important because I think that it's something like family planning,

is something that's something that we're missing in our communities right now. It's hard for people to think one year in advance, let alone think of what they're going to pass on to their children or great-grandchildren. And I think that that's just something that regardless of what decisions you make, you've placed yourself in a position to seriously consider that. Yeah, I do think from an entrepreneur standpoint, you do need to spend a lot of time thinking about what that looks like because there isn't the pension or automatic RSP, depending on what size of company you're working for that planning isn't put into it you have to take that on yourself and i think you can get into a mindset that i'm investing so much in this business right now that i don't have anything to put aside for later and then you find that well maybe that business peter's out and you can't sell it there's nothing there and and then now what right absolutely and i just i worry about

um i guess my generation because it doesn't feel like we have the same understanding of the value of owning real estate, the value of starting your own business, the long-term benefits of that. That just seems to be something I don't know. I feel like is lacking from the conversation of how people can move forward and how that can set them up because a lot of people historically have looked at RRSPs and long-term investing and having cumulative growth over time and your strategy and being cognizant of the fact that those opportunities don't exist. So having a different entry point is something I think is so valuable for entrepreneurs to keep in their mind when they're starting their businesses you need to have a plan from like your 60s to your 80s

on what your financial plan is going to be during that period yeah it's amazing I've been in business for 30 years and it feels like it does not feel like that but time just marches on so quickly but also so slowly and and one thing from when you think generational the baby boomers I'm Gen X, which is kind of sandwiched between baby boomers and Millennials and Millennials in Gen Y, or sorry, Gen Z, or Z, I suppose, in Canada, I think have a really tough time going forward. They're the first generation that will likely make less, be less successful than their predecessor generations, and that's primarily because of, well, to put it in perspective,

I bought a condominium when I was 22 for $70,000 here in Chilliwack. And that same condo would probably be like $4.50. And it's nothing to speak of, really. And yet, wages and salaries have not kept pace. And so when I think about my kids and their first home costing them, if they were to buy, won't be able to do it like I did when I was 22 years old and even the cost of education and everything has gone up but but the amount of income that people make has not kept pace and

so I think for these generations you have to be even more strategic about how you're going to grow and get by and set stuff aside for the future right absolutely and being willing to take that on yourself because I think one good aspect of my generation is we have this commitment to, I don't want to do the same thing, the same building for 35 years. We want change and we want to learn new things and we want to be a jack of all trades type of generation. And I think that there's no other way of going about moving forward than to have that mindset because things are so much less stable and there is less of a clear path, which is why I think talking about entrepreneurship and building that

into people's minds now is so important because it is the philosophy of how do I get out of this like so many of our generation here is like you're never going to be able to buy a house and it's like well you can't have that mindset you have to how are you going to despite the insurmountable odds how are you going to move forward in spite of all of the challenges that are yet to come and your philosophy of being willing to take it on yourself and push forward independently and figure it out and pivot when you need to, is the philosophy I think my generation really needs in order to move forward in the best direction in order to prove people who say you can't own a house moving forward wrong. There's no other option that I can see. Yeah, and I think another component

overlaid on top of that is just the relentlessness of social media and FOMO if you're missing out and just, and then examples that are just not realistic. So if you hear this podcast, you're going to search for how to start a business. And then now that's going to follow you around and you're going to start to see influencers in your Facebook feed that are touting how rich you can get on get rich quick schemes. And whereas it just takes long-term discipline to kind of think about it. You know, I'm going to forego spending a lot on.

on dining out for example and we're just going to put money aside every month and then all of a sudden after five years we've got enough for a down payment and then okay well maybe we're not going to do an elaborate vacation or things like that and um you can do it but it's just making decisions and sticking with those absolutely what has that been like for you to take on so many different ideas and kind of build them out was that something that like happened along the way or did you kind of see, it sounds like you saw co-work Chilliwack coming before everybody else. And I really appreciate that because it's finding value in other areas and then trying to bring that to the community. And I'm hoping we can talk more about the impact co-work Chiluac has on our community from there.

Yeah. So what specifically? So how did the co-work Chiluac idea come about? When did that start? And then when was it actually implemented when you were getting started? I started to think about the potential of that, I would say, 2012, and it wasn't until I was either going to come to the end of a lease and say, I'm out, we'll get a smaller space and just really simplify currency marketing's overhead and so forth, or if I could purchase

this, I had this in the back of my mind because at the time, I think there were three of us working in Chilowac, the rest were remote already, and in 2015, I was able to purchase, I had the inkling that this would work. I started small. I didn't do a wholesale renovation of the space, but I did put some new coat of paint and began to experiment with that business model. It was, it's interesting, like, co-working and co-work was at the time under the radar. More so now, it's well known.

and I didn't spend a ton of time with the name of it, but it's been really great, actually, for the amount of SEO, co-work Chiloac. People are searching for that. And so we're on the top of many different things. We don't do a ton of outward paid advertising, but so much of it has grown through that. All that to say, it grew, it filled,

it grew, it filled, it grew, it filled. prior to COVID we had a waiting list of probably 20 people looking for an office we took a hit obviously as things ground to a halt and we closed for a couple months and then reopened in June

2020 and I've rebuilt and we've always got one or two offices available right now but I'm thrilled that we've been able to sustain that and for me it's always been it's not our primary

business, but it supports it nicely. Absolutely. Can you tell us a little bit about what that's like to and why you started this? Because I think that it does have such a positive effect on the community, as I said. Yeah. I think that entrepreneurship is one of the only ways forward for my generation to have financial success moving forward because those traditional jobs are making $45,000 a year. You're right. It's never going to lead to owning a house or a building or anything like that. So if people want to be financially comfortable, being an entrepreneur, starting their own business is one of the only ways out. So what brought this all about for you?

What was the passion behind that? The passion for me was there's a huge chasm between a home-based business and a business that needs some sort of presence that's not in their home. But the jump is enormous. And so when you think back, you've started something, maybe you're a year-in and you realize I need to hire an employee. your decision is, do I, am I bringing people into my house or, or I need to meet with clients and so forth, well, you may be saying, I need a physical space. And then you're into a lease, likely five

years, likely having to do that leasehold improvements yourself or hire a contractor to do that. And you're outlaying a lot of cash and potentially debt. And I see Covert Chiloac is a nice stop gap between that. And so I don't expect our members to be there for decades. We've had some that have been there from the get-go. Rob Neals, he's a surveyor. He's our longest standing member. He's been there for six years. But this works for him. And his son works there as well. And so it's a stopgap. And it also, to me, creates a community. That's been a little suppressed during COVID as we come in and out of mask mandates and just people kind of retreating and closing their office doors and so forth. But prior to, and I hope to get back to it, is just a whole series of great events in our

studio theater and more community outreach and just more of a buzz of activity. And that's something I'm very proud of that we've been able to build. And it's been neat to see the diversity of different entrepreneurs and businesses come and go. Yeah, really. and it to me it's it's really because my business currency marketing concentrated so much on we do no business in chelowac with fat and in fact very little in British Columbia it was great to get back locally and start something fresh here absolutely can you lay out a little bit about all the different sizes of the offices because I think that that really opens the door for people who you're right you've described before of people working out of a Starbucks on the projects and having just a space to be able to focus and get their work done that's accessible. So could you lay that out for us? Yeah, we have open areas and we call those

hot desks and they're two days a week is the minimum and that's 99 bucks a month. Full hot desk is up to 40 hours a week, basically 830 to 5. That's 199 and then

you can do a hot desk plus which is 24-7. And then our offices, our mini offices are probably about seven and a half by seven and a half it sounds small but what's great about that is as you have access to all of the other resources of meeting rooms as shared kitchens uh just the whole interaction around the water cooler when it in post-covid times and uh and being part of something larger and having able to it's a very lonely pursuit as an entrepreneur in many ways right and so

to have a bit of a community with people in your same boat and to bounce ideas off and so forth. And so that's our smallest offices up to an extra large. But in the grand scheme of things, it's a lot cheaper than leasing a whole space and outfitting it. And so to me, it's a stepping stone and something to promote local entrepreneurship and really create a community around. Which I think you've done a really good job of, and I'm hoping that this can lead into some of the activities that people can get involved in if they're looking to become an entrepreneur because I think you have created like the startup grind and all of these things create like an atmosphere where people can share the problems they're facing and perhaps solutions

and you're right when you have an idea it can feel so lonely which is part of the reason I wanted to do this was because I really was thinking a lot about indigenous communities and the idea that there's somebody on a reserve or out in a rural area that has this brilliant idea and then imagining that person going to their friends and family and saying, I have this brilliant idea and having them all kind of laugh or joke or make fun of them for having this idea because none of them are within that sphere. It can seem so crazy to do your own thing, to start a podcast, to start your own marketing company to do these things when the community around you has no idea what it's like to take

such a risk. So I think that that community is so important because you're getting motivators and seeing other people doing something similar, which is encouraging. So I'm interested to know a little bit more about that and some of the activities that you host. Yeah. So my passionary is the creative industry and technology. And so that's where I put a lot of my energy. The Chiloac Creative Commission is a subcommittee of SEPCO. SEPCO is the Chilawak Economic Partners, and it's a unique form of economic development. Typically, City Hall would have their own economic development officers. What Chilohac did going on 20-plus years ago is create its own private public corporation

and took economic development out of City Hall and created an arm's-length, connected organization. With that, they have a couple of committees that I'm in the... involved in and really passionate about the Chiluac Creative Commission. And that's really centered around. It started as the Film Commission, but then morphed to a broader community. And there are a lot of independent creative types from filmmakers, photographers, graphic artists, web developers.

But even broader than that, creative is a subjective term. And so that is something that there's something called Creative Third Thursdays. And we've done about 70 of those on a typical year, about four of those are in our studio theater at Covert Chiloac. And then the other eight are around different areas of the community. We did some on Zoom and then took about a break the last three months and we're coming back. The first one is in September. I don't know when this is coming out, but it may or may not have happened. But that one is a walking tour downtown with Amber Price.

So she's the founder of the Chilliwack Mural Festival. And it's just a way to network with people, like-minded folks and meet them and learn from them, but also learn about something really interesting. On a related piece, it's a Chilliwack Innovation Network, and it's a group of local tech startups, government folks, higher education, that are all interested in nurturing technology innovation culture in Chiloac. And so that, some of the things that are accessible in that is I took on something called Startup Grind, and again, it's been on a bit of a hiatus, but we'll be coming back in the fall.

Hopefully, in person, meetings that happen once a month as well, and those are talks with entrepreneurs, and really getting to the bottom of their story and sharing and then networking after. And so I think if you have an inkling that entrepreneurship is something that you are interested in and want to learn more about, those are some resources locally that you could tap into. And it's one of those things. You don't have to be an expert. You just have to be curious and interested and want to learn and meet people. I think that that is so valuable because it's valuable to understand other people's struggles and see where that aligns and see how they overcame it, and I think that that's likely what a lot of the conversations that are taking

place during these meetings are all about, is I had this issue, this is how I approached it, and this is how I overcame, and I think that that problem-solving ability and being surrounded by problem-solvers is likely your whole day. And so I'm just interested to know what is it like to kind of surround yourself by a like, do-it-yourself type people, because I think for some of our listeners, they're surrounded by people who are discouraging, who kind of talk down to that, and or who haven't done anything for themselves but mock people who do. And I think that that can be a whole culture in the of itself. I've been into businesses where I go, wow, this is not like they're talking down to each other,

they're insulting each other, and then you kind of leave and you're like, wow, like that is such a different environment than the environment it sounds like you would be in where everybody kind of takes the responsibility on themselves to go and find a solution. So what has that been like for you to kind of live in a world where people are predominantly more self-starters. I guess that's the world that I've lived in and surrounded myself with. I think your network of people, you choose. Not always, but I think you can.

And get yourself outside of your self-imposed box and think outside of that box and meet people in that. You'd be surprised at how helpful people can be, especially as they progress in their careers and and our experts, people aren't necessarily asking them to be their mentor or, hey, what do you think about this idea? I think that seasoned entrepreneurs in our community would love to be tapped on the shoulder and say, hey, I'm thinking about this idea. What do you think about it? And then have the ability to be pointed in the right direction or give feedback. And so as you come up with ideas, jot them down, run them through a simple business plan test.

And if you're getting naysayers, look for some people that are supportive. Absolutely. And I think that that really goes to an important point, which is just that you surround yourself with the people who are going to influence you and making sure that you're listening and paying attention to the people who are trying to support you and trying to open doors because both Rebecca and I have experienced people who are like, oh, make sure you don't do that or make sure you don't do this. And I'm just trying

to help. And it's like, you're discouraging and you're saying it in like the guise of like helping me or trying to clear something up. And I think that that can mess with people's thinking because the people who are in your corner saying like, well, let's figure it out. Let's come up with a solution are the best people to surround yourself with. But I think when you're in a nine to five job, you can really get lost

in thinking that your boss knows best or your teacher knows best and that really takes the confidence and the sense of self-worth away from the person. So I don't think that entrepreneurship is just about starting a business. I think that it's also recognizing and trying to develop yourself and support others because through your actions, through currency marketing, it sounds like you chose that based on their ethics and their willingness to support community and then coming to co-work Chilliwack. It sounds like you chose this because it would help people get started and find their passions and everything has been tied in with this support of community and support for others to develop. But I don't disagree with you that I think there's

so many mentors out there and so many leaders that don't get asked to speak, that don't get asked for their thoughts on things. And I think that we're missing out on those untapped resources. And so I'm just kind of interested on your thoughts on that, on how we navigate that, because I'm doing the best I can to raise awareness through the podcast, but I'm just interested to see what your thoughts are on that. Well, take your situation. You've been doing this for under two years, I would think. And you've reached out to a lot of people that you don't know. And I bet you get very few knows. Maybe some folks are just freaked out to be in this room with a big microphone and hearing themselves in their ears or being on a YouTube video. But a private

conversation would be even easier to get those yeses, right? And it's just a matter of identifying people that you admire. What are they doing? How are they doing it? And I bet they're open to sharing. And so all of this won't just land on your lap. You have to take an active role in your life and what you're doing. And I've got this crappy job. I don't know how I'm going to get out of this? Well, spend your spare time learning about it as opposed to binging a 24-episode Netflix thing. That's okay, but balance that, right? And so, Chiloac is a very open, inviting community. Maybe not for everybody, but I think if you can rise up and connect, you'll find that there are resources here.

Absolutely. Can you tell us some of your role models? Who were you kind of looking at when you were getting started on currency marketing or co-work Chilliwack? What was encouraging to you? Were you watching TV shows or listening to podcasts? What was kind of pushing you and making you feel like, you know what, I can do this? I've been a big podcast listener since I got my first iPod in mid-2000s. I think I started listening to something called This Week in Tech, Twit, in 2006, and some of the offshoots of that. A lot of those are my technology interests, like Mac Break Weekly,

and then more on entrepreneurship and innovation. I've been very curious on that front and just put myself out there. There's an annual festival in Austin, Texas, called South by Southwest, that I went to about six years in a row starting 2010. It's a massive technology and music and film festival and have some friends in the U.S. that I've gone with and hope to get back there and after all of this. But just, and there's just so many resources now.

Like, you can hear the stories, whether it's like a Tim Ferriss podcast or there was one called, startup by Gimlet Media that was really interesting, and it followed the path of starting this podcast media company, super interesting. Radio Lab and This American Life, and so podcasts have been super important to me and following that. And then locally, I got involved in the Chilliwack Chamber of Commerce, probably 10 years into my business and started to, um, people with similar struggles and so forth, and the chamber here is thriving. Those are some local groups so you could easily go to one of their meetings and see if this

is for you. Can you tell us a little bit about the Chamber of Commerce and how that plays a role in business? Because I've heard about the Chamber, I follow them, but understanding for like a potential entrepreneur, what is the value in the Chamber of Commerce for somebody starting out or somebody who's got a business that they're trying to increase? Well, Chambers of Commerce have a few different roles. One of them is advocacy for business.

So they really influence the government on policy side of things. And there's typically a board of directors that are involved locally. And so that's what they're doing on the greater platform in the province. But then locally, they're really the hub for entrepreneurs and business people. And so the Chiloac Chamber is very active. They have a lot of events they do, an annual golf tournament. They do a connections every month. It's struggled a little bit, obviously, with COVID and things changing that way.

But they've done a number of online. They do a great International Women's Day annual event as well as they have a women's network, Entrepreneur Network as well. Every year there's the Business Excellence Awards, which is just a fantastic gala that celebrates local business success. And for new entrepreneurs and longstanding businesses and manufacturers and just retailers and just all sorts of different businesses. And so as you're starting a business, that's a really great way,

especially if the focus of that business is local to start to get known and so forth. Another piece that I've personally never been involved in is Rotary. Chilohac is a very huge popular Rotary Town. I think there's four clubs here. That's another way that you can give back to your community, but also network with others that might help you grow your business. Can you tell us about the benefits of networking? Because I just had Nina on.

And I'm just interested to hear your perspective on it because you do have these kind of connection events. But it sounds like you approach them a little bit differently in that it's not just everybody grab a cocktail and stand around and talk to each other. It sounds like you were a little bit more strategic about that. And so I'm interested to know what is your perspective on marketing or networking, sorry. I am not great in a networking environment. I'll go to the edge and maybe strike up a conversation, but I'm not the social butterfly. So to me, an event that is educational or you're learning something

or someone's presenting or entertaining, and then after there's, with startup grind, there's a conversation, but then there's beer and pizza after, that to me is a lot better than just everybody with business cards trying to like exchange and, and so forth. So that's been the type of events that I've structured and been a part of. Another annual event that we've done, again, affected by COVID, is TEDx Chiloac. So TED is an international organization.

TED stands for technology, entertainment, and design, and you probably stumbled across a TED talk somewhere on the internet at some point. Well, they started... TEDx, which are TED-like annual events that are done at the community level, and there's over 4,000 of them globally. And we have TEDx Chiloac. And so it's a, we did our first one in 2016. It was at the Chiluac Museum, but then from that point on, it was at G.W. Graham, and we had planned to go to the Cultural Center in 2020, April. So you can imagine the timing of that was probably not great. But it'll come back in 2022. And that's a, that's a really great event.

And we feature local, really interesting ideas worth sharing as the underlying thesis or mission of TED. It seems like you really value individuals and what one person can, like the idea one person can make a difference. It seems like your philosophy, your life philosophy has been towards that because your willingness to create a co-work space where individuals can get started and have a meaningful space to get started. Your willingness to support the chamber, which supports small businesses, your involvement in SEPCO, which tries to make sure that business is thriving in Chiluac. And then with TEDx, where you can have people who aren't small business owners, but they're entrepreneurial in that they're willing to go and speak likely in front of people and share their story and share a message who might not have. had professional speaking engagements. They're just regular people.

Like I know you had David Jimmy on. He's not like a professional speaker that's going out for speaking engagements. He did that to share his story with the community and trying to build bridges. And it seems like that's been kind of your ethos throughout your life is this belief in the individual. So I'm interested in that tied in with TEDx Chilliwack. What has that been like to be involved in? And where does that come from for you? Well, TEDx, I love that platform.

So we do these local events and we live stream them day up. of. But super high production value, we create a talk. So a TED talk must be 18 minutes or less. Typically, 12 minute talk is a sweet spot. It's not death by PowerPoint. It's not reading a script. You have to be off script, engaging, and dynamic. We have a whole group of about 15 people that have volunteered, including five coaches. So if you are selected to speak, you are given a coach. And you build that talk and your idea and there's multiple rehearsals so the day of when you step on that red circle you are ready to go and what's cool is those videos are produced and given to TEDx on their their channel and the TEDx YouTube channel I believe has four billion views in total so it's a

huge platform our talks collectively I think we're up to about 700,000 views on our TEDx videos over the years, the most being, I think about 120,000. But that's a huge audience that's far greater than the two to three hundred people that are in the audience on day of. So I think it's just, I love their mission of ideas we're spreading. It's a real positive international organization with a local presence with their TEDx whole thing. And it's all volunteer and it's, I love it.

You are like a steward for the community. Where did that come from? Where does this desire to support others in their endeavor come from for you? Because it sounds like you were self-starter and you've figured out things mostly for yourself. So you could make the argument. Why do you need to help people? You figured it out. Why support others?

And so I'm interested to know where that ethos came from. I think in the first 10 years of my business, it was heads down, do the work. And then the next 10 years was growing it into something. that was known in a very particular, the credit union industry across North America, primarily in the U.S. And I felt somewhat detached from Chiloac. I loved living here, and I just love everything about it. And it's a great place to have a family and see them grow up.

And there's just so much positive about it. And so when I saw the opportunity to kind of re-engage locally, I think that has been super encouraging and the deeper I get into it, the more I want to do. And I have the capacity to do it, so why not? Well, that is an excellent way to look at things. I'm hoping we can dive a little bit more into the marketing and how you see marketing, because you have a background in this. And for a lot of entrepreneurs, I think that the marketing side kind of comes last. It's the last on the agenda. You've started your business, whether it's like a Luna float or whether it's selling clothing or selling meat, you've got that far.

But the marketing and the getting the message out, I think, is something we can focus on. And so I'm interested to hear your thoughts on how people should be thinking about their marketing and what lens you put on when you're trying to market currency marketing or co-work Chilliwack or any of these events. I would say today there are more avenues to market than ever before, and it's harder to market than ever before. um early days of social media everything was free and and freely shared and now it's all pay to play and um and there's just such a barrage online having said that digital marketing is super important and you do need to have a strategy around that i think that especially local businesses grow best through word of mouth uh and so much i would put more energy

into like Google and just really great reviews and feedback and and spending time learning Google is to me somewhat more important than Facebook or Twitter but those are also outposts you should be using there is traditional mediums still and we have Chilawak Progress and a couple radio stations and for some those work really well but it does get expensive fast and so i wouldn't put a ton of budget into that i would work on more more unique things so so if it goes back to what is that business idea if you think of um really unique local businesses i think of the bookman for example well they're not spending a ton on outward marketing they're grown because I have a super passionate leader who is doing an incredible job online, spreading that,

but also a staff that's doing a credible service and creating a unique product in the community. And they stand out as one that's doing a great job in my mind. I think that you need a great name and brand to go with that. So I would engage with a local graphic designer potentially to help you with that. you need a good I don't think necessarily a super formal marketing plan but at least something

like one thing you see is a startup business if it's just one or two people they'll put a website up they'll have a Facebook page and then it's just cricket so there's not a lot of activity so consistency is really important

so to carve out these are the tasks that I need to do on a weekly basis to keep these things fresh and updated I think don't underestimate estimate the power of video, creating either yourself or one thing that I don't see a lot happening locally, but I think there's an opportunity that businesses really take media creation into their own hands and create their own show and something that's educational

and not just self-promotional, but peripheral to their business. I think there's a lot of opportunity there. I couldn't agree more, and that's something I've thought a lot about with this podcast is wanting to find a way to partner with small businesses to try and get that message out in a meaningful way because we're already recording. We're already having the conversation about what the business is and how it works. So why not overlay that with some background video of the business and put something together to get the word out? Because that is something that I've also seen lacking is the lack of video, the lack of a person who I know is passionate about the business, getting behind a video camera and saying, this is why I started this. This

This is why I care about the community, and this is why I hope this improves your life for you and your family. Because I think, like, Bill Turnbull comes to mind as someone who wants you to have clean, high-quality, non-GMO, non-antibiotic meat, who also creates a culture around like Thanksgiving, Christmas, that type of person would be great behind a camera saying, like, hey, for Thanksgiving this year, think of the town butcher. We're here to support you. We're here to give you clean, high-quality meat. You can trust with your children, with your family, this coming Thanksgiving or Easter or Christmas in a way that really resonates with people. And I had saw that he was posting like, hey, how do I get better social media engagement? And I was like your true message, I don't feel like you're relaying to your customers

about the culture that you're creating. And so I'm also interested to know more about your work with currency marketing and how you've created kind of a culture around young people. and how all of that came about, because it seems like that was kind of like you're in with the credit unions. Yeah, so we started generally as a graphic design firm morphing into an ad agency, and then in around 2006 saw a specific issue the credit unions were having in attracting young adults. And so we developed a program that we did with a credit union in Alberta called Young and Free that really helped credit unions, develop a product and attract younger demographic.

And so we did that. Young and Free became a brand unto its own and a credit union in each state and province could license that. And we helped them find a young person who was their advocate and ambassador essentially and create a community around that. And so that we really built and grew. And then a piece of that was a financial education

and that's where it's a money thing came out of. That same need, we just took a different approach on and made it less expensive for credit unions to get involved. So we create financial education content, which includes videos, infographics, articles, presentations, and other things that are all branded with the credit union's logo. And then they have local reps that use that in communities all over North America. And so that's another case where they're trying to create both an in-person community as well as a digital community,

and we give them content to help them do that that's customized, but also really helpful, entertaining, educational. Wow, that is brilliant. And I'm interested to know, you mentioned brand ambassadors. Where do you think that went? Because I feel like that is something that we could use a bit more of right now, is people to look to that are role models that are perhaps setting some sort of example within a business. And I think of Caltyre because I like Caltyre. I like their quality. But I specifically like the one on Eagle Landing because there's this person Robert there who works there. And he

always delivers that incredible personal, passionate, thoughtful experience every single time. There's no rushing. There's no distraction. He's always calling to say, hey, just so you know we have these items, I know you have an accord. And it's not done. in like a sales mini way where he's like oh just so you know we have a sale on tires it's like i genuinely remember you coming in and saying this was an issue and so i'd like to make sure that you're just aware of this and so it feels really personal and to me like i told him i think you should be like the brand ambassador for at least the Fraser valley in terms of like saying this is the type of person that you can expect to see when you come to a cal tire thoughtful people who really

care about your experience and making sure you have the things you need so when you're on the road you're safe. And so I'm interested to know what do you think of the brand ambassador? Do you think that that's gone or do you think it goes in cycles and that it'll be back? There's a huge opportunity for real authentic, helpful information. I think that that whole notion's been slightly corrupted with the influencer. You don't know the things you're seeing on Instagram, how much money is being exchanged to push that at you. But a small business could create their own outward media channel, a combination of YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, publish their own content that's super helpful.

The thing is it has to be consistently done and you have to do it over a long period of time and not be disheartened when the first one only gets 10 views and then over time it can grow. And there's examples of that out there. I can't think of any necessarily locally, but I think there's a huge opportunity there. Absolutely. I'm interested to know as well what advice you would have for young entrepreneurs starting out, what things that they should be thinking about or words of encouragement that you think that they should hear moving forward.

I'll come back to the younger you are, the less risk there is, the less embedded you are in your life and all the things that happen. I started my business when I was 19 and with no overhead and no commitments. I didn't have family and kids and mortgages and all the things that can just kind of embed you on that's the course of your life. So if you're young, I think there's a huge opportunity. If you are older and do have some of those things, doing something on the side makes a lot of sense and let it grow to a point where, okay, now it's time I can leave my job and I can put my energy into this

because I know it's a going concern. I think depending on how you operate, having a little journal of entrepreneurial ideas and then exploring them and thinking about them, or think of pain points that you think you could solve with a unique solution. Keep your radar open to that. And I think a unique idea is a lot better than just trying to mimic or copy something that's already out there.

That's brilliant. And I'm just interested to get your final thoughts on debt because you had mentioned that from the get-go. What are your thoughts on how entrepreneurs should try and approach debt, approach loans, approach all of these things? Please go ahead. I believe on keeping it simple as possible and not going into significant debt to start a business.

I think the business should start. It should have its own kind of growth before you're incurring debt. And think about debt as, well, how can I do it minimally? if you were to like lease a space and outfit at that do as much as you can on your own and just allow the business to gain revenue and over time

as opposed to just taking out a you're not going to get a loan without personal guarantees and things early on you do want to separate that like I mentioned but keep debt to a real minimum as much as you can and at this point the only debt I have is on property

perfect that is really good advice because I think that the instinct is to go big and see what happens next and I think that that advice is to see where it goes and let it grow organically to make sure that it makes sense can you tell people how they can connect with currency marketing

or co-work Chilowac online if you're curious about what this currency marketing thing is go to currencymarketing.ca it has our it's a money thing financial education program, which you can learn about just to get a sense of what I actually do from day to day. Covert Chiloac is definitely something you can tap into local, and that's coerccelloac.com. One last comment, as I'm just percolating on the whole debt thing, a trap is credit card

debt. I do believe that as you're building your business, you do need likely a credit card because of so many different things, but in all power, pay that off every month. do not incur long-term debt. You have no real idea of how much that will cost you over time. Thank you so much, Tim. This has been really helpful for me because I long-term do hope to start businesses and bring what I hope is positive ideas to the community. And your mindset is definitely informing me and I'm sure many others on how to proceed in the best way possible with mitigating risk, but also making sure that there's that passion and there's that community impact because it's

people like you that have shown how the path can be laid out. And so I can follow in those footsteps and do the best I can to live up to the great quality of service and community spirit that you've brought to our community. So I really appreciate you being willing to take the time once again to share your story and your knowledge. You're welcome and keep it up what you're doing here. Thank you.