Nuanced. - 205. Vin Jay: How to Break Cycles, Find Purpose & Build Discipline

Episode Date: September 1, 2025

Vin Jay joins to discuss discipline, breaking toxic cycles, purpose, and the making of his new album Good Company. The conversation explores his philosophy on growth, sacrifice, collaboration, and why discipline separates the 1% from the rest with host Aaron Pete. Send us a textFit, Healthy & Happy Podcast Welcome to the Fit, Healthy and Happy Podcast hosted by Josh and Kyle from Colossus...Listen on: Apple Podcasts   SpotifySupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

The biggest myth is that there is stagnation. There is no stagnation. There's growth and decay. Constant is change. How do you develop that mindset? Our attention is like fucking water and miracle bro. If you could put that on one thing and just cut out the fluff of how you spend your time, that thing is going to do better.

How important is discipline? It's the only thing that matters. If you've seen that in other people and, like, how that feels to watch people kind of get stuck there. Whatever safety you think you have is you just withering away. What was the thesis or the topic that you had as you were putting this project together? It's much easier to get taken down than to lift someone up. Do you have any recommendations for people in that circumstance? You cannot get these things that require blood, sweat, and tears without sacrifice.

Vin Jay, I am so grateful to be having you back on, so excited to talk about your new album. One of the reasons that I love being able to speak with you is because you talk about this idea of being a young prophet. And a prophet is somebody who comes in with a message, often coming from a higher power, sharing truth, something on morality or the future. And I feel like your music hits on that so well. And I'm just so excited to be able to talk about this album. and what you've been going through, cutting out toxic people, reaching your full potential and trying to live a meaningful life. So just thank you so much for being willing to come back on because these are such important topics to discuss. Yeah, thank you for having me. You know,

we have a blast every time we do this. I like diving deeper into the art and every aspect of it, so I'm excited. Can you catch us up? What's been going on since we last spoke? Any big reflection, any big news to share? I just had my first child. He is six months old. So that is, as you can see, the dad gang hat. I'm repping it proudly. Also,

probably an extra bag or two under my eyes. But yeah, that has become the biggest change lifewise so far. And just learning how to balance work with it as well, because as you know, to make

it in music, I think personally, You need to be a bit obsessed, and it needs to kind of be all or nothing. So learning how to balance this, what has been an obsession for me for so long, with something that I'd be much more important than my job has been interesting, to say the least. Can I ask how, what was the timeline of the starting the album process and having the child? Was it at the same time, were they far apart? they overlapped because I didn't know I was making an album until it was halfway done I was like making just songs then all of a sudden I'm like man I haven't released an album

since oh my god my last album album was human experience which was 2021 so I was like hold on I think I have like seven unreleased songs right now I was like I'm like a few away from having an entire album. So if I'm just a bit more intentional with the direction of the rest of these songs, this could be a project. And now from that moment on was probably six months, and that overlapped with probably the first two months of his life, because me and Banks, who produced and mixed a lot of the album, were squeezing in as much studio time as humanly possible before

both of our children got here. Our kids are like a week apart. Wow. We were just linked, like, just locked in for months because we're like, we got X amount of time to like really hustle. So when you started on the album process, did you have the human experience, what I love about it, is it really does kind of go through like a growth period, like what it's like to start figuring out where you want to go, then you tell your family how they react, then you tell your friends, how they react. and the pushback that you might receive and just kind of the journey of growing up and finding yourself. What was what was kind of the thesis or the topic that you had in your mind as you were putting this project together? Yeah. So this one is very different than human experience. And my favorite thing about projects personally is that when I go back and listen to them years later, I can hear exactly where I was at that point in time because I don't even like I listen

a human experience. I'm like, damn, I remember who I was mentality-wise during this album, and I'm not the same person anymore. Maybe in some regards I am, but there's so much evolution. Going into this album, though, like I said, I wasn't even

intending to make an album. So the way the message panned out was different because it wasn't set in stone from the beginning. I I realized that a lot of the songs I had that were done had features on them, right? And I was like, damn, I should make an album, but I don't want an album full of features

because the fans, they want to hear me, right? If they wanted features, they'd go elsewhere and all that. But I was like, hold on, though. I'm like, what if I lean into having a lot of features? And that's the entire concept, and we can call it good company, because I'm lucky enough to be surrounded by this network of extremely talented people and I think when you collaborate with people, beautiful things happen.

So I was like, let's start there and see how that affects the sound when we introduce others into it and their ideals as well. So that is the defining moment for the album and once we shifted towards that direction, the whole project became extremely collaborative. I love that because one of my questions

was going to be about how you came up with the name and it's interesting that you say good company in terms of the company that you keep because I was also thinking I know you like understanding business and finance and so you also are running a very good company I imagine so that's the second double meaning of the the album name as well which is why the logo on the album is a barcode and has like rainbow paint dripping from it the concept of the artwork as well is the name, is that music is inherently a business, right? Because there's money to be made from it. Hence the barcode. Now, all that, like, paint that has the entire color spectrum dripping from the barcode is the soul that inevitably is going to poke through that

business just because of what music is and how powerful it is. So a little double meaning of the term good company there, for sure. I love that. And then you can see kind of the high rises and that also just makes me think of New York and business and that that's where you go Wall Street, all of that work where people are trying to grow their businesses. Exactly. I'm very, very happy with how the artwork came out. I think it made a lot of sense for what we were trying to do. I couldn't agree more.

I also liked, I think I mentioned this to you via a message that I liked that the color tie in and it just looked like human experience and high frequency being tied together and a lot of, and young profit being tied together. I could see that. I could definitely see that. Okay, so are you ready to dive into these songs and go through them? I want to get your take on a bunch of them. Very ready.

Okay, so let's start with trouble. You talk about staying true to yourself and using negativity from others as fuel. You're nice principles, homie your life fictional. I say you've hit your pinnacle if your life wasn't miserable. And I ain't hating. I'm just stating the truth. If I was hating, I would hate to be you. And I'm just wondering, how do you develop that mindset?

And if somebody wants to start doing that, because we get so lost in going, well, like, this person's, like, crapping on my idea or they don't believe in me. And, like, it's a transition in your mind to take that and go, oh, I'm going to go run with that. How did you develop that and how do others follow in that same path? So personally, for me, it was like a knee-jerk reaction to react that way, I guess. I think the most ideal thing you can do is not let anyone's opinion matter to you. period, whether positive or negative, it just doesn't affect you. It shouldn't. The noise they make should have zero effect on you. However, if you're like me and most people, you can, it should piss you off when people doubt you, right? Because you know what you're capable of. If you have

a shred of self-confidence and think you're capable of more than you currently have, it should give you a bit of an emotional reaction on the inside that causes you to want to prove them wrong. It's the whole concept of like reverse psychology, right? If you want someone to do something, like, oh, I bet you can't do that, right? So for me, it's always been a real driver for me when I'm doubted or people look at me as less than. It's like, I feel this undying need to prove that. Now, is that healthy? Probably not.

But does it make for good music and success stories? For sure. The other piece that really stood out to me was this idea of like, it's not. dangerous to stay where you are and not chase your dreams. And I think that that sometimes gets lost on people because they go, well, like it's a big risk if I take the leap and I go for what I really want to do. Say you're like an artist and you're like, oh, that's a big step and like I'm putting it all on the line. But if you're working a nine to five that you hate, your life is quality is going to go downhill. You're going to become more miserable. You're going to take that out on the people who

surround you and the quality of your life is going to become something you don't want to endure anymore you're going to lose good connections with people like that's staying where you are can seem like the safe path at times but i really like that you point out that like that's just as much a risk to stay where you are than to kind of move on and i'm wondering if you've seen that in other people and like how that feels to watch people kind of get stuck there yeah i've seen it in myself at certain points. The biggest myth is that there is stagnation. There is no stagnation. There's growth and decay. What looks like stagnation is you decaying. Go look in nature. There is nothing that is stagnant. You are growing or you're dying. The only change, I'm sorry, the only constant is

change. So whatever safety you think you have is you just withering away. I think it is, I think we all need some sense of purpose. And wherever you find that is on you, but that's when I've noticed when I'm doing great in life versus when I may be doing poorly or not feeling is great or not making the right decisions. It is when I lack purpose, chasing a goal that feels purposeful to me. That, I think, is everything. And the second you start to lack that purpose or ignore what you know would be purposeful for you is when you start to slip into decisions and habits that are just going to continue to feed that withering process that you're in because you need something to fill that hole. I think as humans, we desire and seek that purpose in something. And when

we're not going for it, even though we should be, everyone knows deep down, we need to numb that with something, right? And this is not me hating on video games. I play them all the damn time. video games are a good example because it's like, okay, I'm not making strides in my actual life that feel purposeful, but in this game, I can level up to level 90 and my character can become stronger. And so you're just replacing it. On the other hand, if you're not even replacing it with video games, you're just numbing the fact that you're not doing it at all through alcohol or food or drugs or fill in the blank scrolling, doom scrolling. So I think that purpose is so freaking important and you can see the effects when you when you start to stagnate

quote unquote in that same vein it feels like to me you're you're an expert in taking one of the biggest risks i feel like there is we know how challenging the music industry is we know how many people want to take their their passion and turn it into a career or a business and grow their influence and their impact on people but like when you first say like i want to become a rapper and like I want to do that as my full-time job like that's a massive like bet on yourself and so what what recommendations would you have for people who are like I know where I am isn't good maybe I'm working at a grocery store maybe I'm working that that regular nine to five that's not meaningful how do they make some of those small steps because obviously you can't just

quit your job and hope for the best you got you got to do the work and build to it do you have any recommendations for people in that circumstance. Yeah. Be very honest with yourself about how you're spending your time currently. You have two things when we get down to it. You have time and your energy. And your energy can be directed widely amongst many things or extremely narrow towards one thing. And our attention is like fucking water and miracle grow. If you could put that on one thing and just cut out the fluff of how you spend your time, that thing is going to do better. So if you're in that situation where you work at the grocery store, I want to know what you're doing with the rest of your fucking time, the rest of it.

You got to be willing, it sounds corny, but you have to be willing to cut out sleep. You have to be willing to give up leisure. You cannot get these things that require blood, sweat, and tears without sacrifice. This video I watched the other day said, it's, you want what one percent of people have, but you're not willing to do the shit they're doing. And that's this shit that 99% of people won't do. That's why they're the 1%. You want what they bled for, sweat for, and cried for, and you want it for free.

But it doesn't come free. So to that person, I would say every waking moment that you have, that you can direct towards chasing your dreams that won't take away from other things that are very important in your life should be directed at it. Point Blame, period. It gets really simple when you get down to it. You have to want it bad, and every ounce of energy you can devote towards it needs to be devoted towards it. It's very black and white.

Now, I will say this. There's different people in different scenarios. Some people are a 17-year-old who want to learn how to rap, right? Or be a rapper. Very different story. Cut out all the bullshit you're doing and put all your eggs in that basket. You're young, you're dumb. You have nothing to lose.

For someone who's 28 and has a kid and, uh, a decent job that maybe they're concerned about losing because it supports the family. Completely different story. That is where I say devote all the time that you can, that won't take away from important things, to grow that seed. The other piece that I think is interesting to get your perspective on, because I think, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, I think you may have sometimes an addiction to discipline in like a really good way where you try and lock yourself into a really

routine and sometimes that can have negative impacts, but how important is discipline? We'll be back after a quick break. Hey, quick question for you. Are you someone who wants to be fit, healthy, and happy? And what if I told you you could get your dream body by simply just listening to a podcast? I'm Josh. And I'm KG, and we're the host of the fit, healthy, and happy podcast. Listen, we get it. Fitness isn't easy, carbs, no carbs. Just stop, okay? It doesn't have to be that complicated. And that's why we made this podcast. We get straight to the facts so you can become your best you. So the way to check us out is click the link in the show notes or

search fit, healthy, and happy podcast on any of the major podcast platforms. We'll see you soon. It's everything. It's the only thing that matters, bro. It's, have you ever had to talk with someone and hyped them up through the words you've said? You've given them real, like, sage advice. And they're like, you spoke life into them and now they're excited and then the next week they're being a fucking idiot again it's like clearly the motivating doesn't work or these moments of inspiration you need to show up for yourself all the time every day because of that requirement of energy and attention and the reason a lot of people fail and we've spoke about this multiple times excuse me the reason so many people fail is because they don't

want it as bad as they think they fucking want it or they don't have a strong enough why right if you, uh, what's this video I saw? It's like, uh, I asked everyone in the room, what percent chance do you think you're going to make a million dollars this year, right? And everyone's like zero, zero. Some people like one exuberant people are like, oh, five. Maybe I'll, I can make a million dollars this year. And then they said, if everyone in your family was going to die, if you didn't make a million dollars this year, what are the chances you're going to make a million dollars? And they're like, oh, 100%. So what changed? It's the why. how dire this is to you.

So I think you need to switch how dire what you wanted is for you, because that's going to directly impact how much you show up for yourself. I couldn't agree more. And there's something, I don't know if you, I imagine you do experience this in some of the moments where you don't want to do it the most, but then you do it. Like, I think the gym is a usual example people think of. But when you have emails to do or when you have things to follow up on,

When you do it when you want to do it the least, that's where I feel like confidence and real self-respect comes from because you're like, oh, I'm the person who does it when I'm tired, when I don't want to do it, when I want to go to sleep, when I want to chill. When you do it in those moments, there's just something different about that energy. Yeah, because if you do it when just when you want to do it, then you're everybody else. You're not separating yourself at all. Everybody does shit when they want to do shit. the thing that separates you and puts you above the rest and gets you what the rest don't have is showing up when you don't want to show up because that's when everybody quits. That is the one thing that separates you.

And the thing that takes you from a slight outlier to the 1% is doing that fucking 20-fold more than everybody else. The more times you can do that, the more you're separating yourselves. So you're doing shit people aren't doing. You're going to get shit that people don't have. It's that simple. The last question on this song, and it's just on the vein of, of what you're describing, I see a lot of hate on people like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, like people who are really, really financially successful.

And part of me goes, like, obviously, they make mistakes, they're human beings. But the other piece seems like we really, like, as a culture, we don't like when people are this successful. Like, it offends us in some sort of way. And I'm wondering, how do you digest when people are like, oh, screw Elon Musk or or screw Jeff Bezos and they're crapping on these people who have done like no matter what you think of them they've done incredible things with their life and there just seems to sometimes be this pop-off of jealousy like how could they be so rich how could they be so successful how dare they do that and it's almost like it's a reflection of what we chose not to do and I don't think you need to go to their extent like every person needs to do that but like how do you process when you hear those types of comments I stay far away from people who talk like that But if I was to talk to someone like that, I agree with you very much on the reflection aspect of it. I think when you see someone doing better than you, it's holding up a mirror to you as to what you are capable of achieving.

And if that thought scares you or you've been trying to numb it, run away from it, then these visceral reactions come out and it always comes out as anger and hate and victimization. also people who complain about other people having a bunch of money because they created a lot of value for humanity like you don't understand how money fucking works anyway and again not talking to you not because I need to avoid certain people I just don't want to I'm just not going to have a good time talking to you that's fair the next song is prayed up and I found it had like an aggressively good positivity And I'm wondering first, what does it mean Gets found, I'm going to see y'all later. And I'm wondering first, what does it mean to be prayed up? Grateful, baby. Just being grateful, no matter what.

We, you know, go through the fire sometimes. We sometimes we may talk a little too crazy, but through it all, through it all, I stay prayed up. I stay grateful. I'm blessed. All of that. I'm prayed up. The good energy, good.

vibe connected with God, prayed up. Can I just ask, like, I think a lot of people are going through kind of a renaissance of faith, of believing in things bigger than themselves. And one of the pieces that, like, I grew up as a Catholic, so we had like these typical things you say for grace or before you eat. And then I've seen other people do it where they're just being, as you said, grateful before they eat, grateful for their life, grateful for the fact that they have access to food we see around the world that, like, people are still starving. And so just trying

to work through the fact that I think being grateful is something we can kind of move on from. And as we work through, I think, a lot of things in the West, being grateful that we have the quality of life we have in comparison to people 100 years ago, sometimes gets lost. And I'm just wondering, how do you keep that when you've continued to grow so much that it's easy to almost take it for granted. That's something I've struggled with, man. Being highly ambitious and grateful is a tough fucking seesaw to operate. I get it's just just taking inventory, man.

When I look around at what my life is today and everyone wants to be Russ and Drake or at least have the level of success that they've had, right, financially and musically. but when I look at my life right now and everything that God has given me, music aside, dude, a faithful, beautiful wife inside and now a healthy son that wakes up and smiles at me every single morning. I'm in a home that, you know, and is it a mansion? No, but like I know people my age who wish they had a home and it's, we have a roof overhead, clean water, food. And when I take inventory, it's not hard to be grateful and thank God because all of these things, that are going right, we take for granted because they can easily be going wrong.

There's a million ways that all these things can go wrong, and they're just not. So it's not difficult for me to be grateful. Sometimes, you know, emotions run high and, oh, my God, this thing is happening and it's annoying, but you got to, like, you got to get away from that and really take stock of what's going right in your life. Okay, I have a really important question for you, and I don't know how it works, so I need you to explain it to me. How do the lyrics work on Apple Music?

Why does it not go along with what you're saying on every song? How does it work? It drives me nuts when I have to scroll through and follow along with the lyrics. What is going on? That is on me. That is me being a lazy bum. And when I upload my songs to distributors, I don't put the lyrics in there. So Apple Music's like, I'm just going to figure it out.

I'm going to guess the lyrics. And apparently they don't even scroll. So that's on me. I got to take care of that. Okay, because I was wondering if they make you, like, pay an additional fee or something, because when it flows with it, it's so engaging and we'll just put it up while we're driving and we'll just have the lyrics going. And then we're like, what the heck? Like, how does this work? And then it's for some, but it's not all of them.

And we're like, oh, this is like a journey. Like, we want to hear the lyrics. We want to follow. And so I was just curious how that operate. Yeah, I'm definitely, I am like an artist, artist where I am so in it for just, I want to create the best music and then give. it to the world that sometimes I let the logistics fall to the wayside. Never the business aspect of it, but the logistics of it sometimes. I'm like, this is not necessary. So that's where we're at with that. Fair enough. As a fan, I hope you do it because it's a pleasure to see the skill. And

like just, I don't know if you watch shows with captions, but it just helps you understand what's going on so much, so much better. Because when you go really fast, it's like, oh, no, I've lost it. Like, it went too fast. I need to slow it down. The next song is war. I'll be honest with you. I'm back in the booth, feeling relentless. I'm never left. I'm never left. I've never left. Just pivoted my direction. A better yet the path that I was destined, but nevertheless, still the next best investment. And I'll be honest with you. I was super excited to see the song because I've seen Echo and Nate Vickers do the style before of the rock rap. Is that, did you see that going on and go like, oh, I want to get involved in that?

Or how did that song come about? No, how did that one come? I was just scrolling on beat stars on a producer's page who I rock with a lot. His name is Pendo 46. He's done plenty. He did shady. He did goat. He did this.

And probably a few more, to be honest. I found that beat. I ended up singing my own hook, which was not the one that's currently on it. And then I wrote that verse. and the verse just felt so big and inspirational and like we were just like getting after it that I was like this hook is not good enough I need a rock singer on this who's gonna drive this home

I sent it to Nate first try he sends that back to me I was like dude this guy's incredible it's rare that first try people knock it out of the park he'd be like I like it but switch this and change this part instead of going up go down change this word to that first try he sends me that and then of course like echo i heard him all over that shit me and echo when we send each other's songs it's got a real uh specific energy to it i know when it needs echo on it and the fact that nat was on it

just made it make even more sense because when they collab it's magic so that one kind of just created itself once once the verse was laid down it was and it's an incredible song it's one of my favorites on the album by far because of that flow and that energy but i also like just thinking back. The reason I love the album so much is because it's like there's so many Easter eggs. And I just, as I mentioned to you, I think privately, I discovered you through the song villain that you did with him. Like, that's where I first found you and then like listen to all your songs and all your albums and I've been following ever since. So it's cool to see that door open and then see this song come about. But I also feel like you and Echo bring out like a gritty energy to each other. And it's like

a heaviness. But it's also like it's this weird balance. of like it's heavy but like I'm gonna go get after it even though everything's heavy and I just I really enjoy that style of of topic yeah I feel that that's kind of my bread and butter spot and it's not I'm not making songs like that every day because I'm a human being um but when when I do get that energy it is true that like villain kind of has that same raw rugged energy I feel you um and we have another song that's release right now. I'll show it to you once we're off the podcast. And it's the same thing. Like very different sonically, but energy-wise, it's motivational. And I don't know. I think every

artist has a space where they overlap with another artist. Sometimes it's huge. Sometimes it's a bit smaller. I think me and Echo, that's where we overlap very well. And that's why it becomes so like cohesive when we come together on songs like that. I love that because when I think of you and Anakin, like you have this ability to pass the beat back and forth, like it's a ball. And I find that's your guys' style together when you do Sedona or when you do other songs together. Like, that's your guys' skill set together. So I like that it'll, do you know that going into the song? I guess you said that you saw, like you could hear echo on that song before it even happened. Yeah. So in terms of finding out where I overlap with another artist,

when I hear their music, I could generally understand where we would overlap. Me and NK. had this conversation a few days ago for ourselves. And with Canon, let's say, or Anakin, I'm sorry, specifically, now that we've made a bunch of songs, I know exactly where we overlap. It is, it's swaggy lyricism. It's a bit more braggadocious and more of like a bop to it than aggression. And that's where me and him overlap big time. We're going to bar out, but it's going to feel smooth.

It's going to feel real smooth. Nate, oh my God, I'm calling everyone by their real name. I apologize. NK. Me and him overlap in a completely different space. So he's making dark pop currently, right? But before he started doing the dark pop, he can wrap his ass off as well. He's just got a bit darker of a style than I do.

So the place we overlap for sure is like lyricism and chopping up a little bit, but maybe more in an emotional space. So we can chop and be lyrical, but with a bit more introspective nature to it. Yeah, I love that. One of the lines that I wanted to get your thoughts on, because we get these kind of phrases, and then we almost like disconnect from what they mean.

And I always feel guilty when I go back to listen to old songs that I almost don't hear the lyrics the same way I did the first time I heard it. like it's like it smacks you upside the head when you hear a good line and then over time you almost get used to it so you stop appreciating the line but life is a battle of will i really like that and i'm wondering if you could share your thoughts yeah um that's a deep question um i think i think a part of this life and this reality a very important part of it is for us to go through things, period, because they shape our soul and craft it and bring a bit of,

they build like the character of our soul. And I think that is actually like a feature of this life and not a bug. I think the problems are intentional for us to overcome. So when I say this life is a battle of will, I mean that like bar for bar I think that's the fucking point of this shit to for us to overcome again and again and again to shape and mold our souls so that whatever you believe in when when this life is over our soul is a bit more weathered and wise because of the problems that we had to overcome I think it's like a bit of a school for your soul to an extent I love that piece. because there's those lines where it goes like when you're, if you ask God for strength, do you think he gives you an easy life or do you think he gives you something to overcome? If you want confidence, do you think he tells you you're doing a good job or does he give

you a challenge to face? And like changing your mindset to seeing barriers as opportunities is something that becomes cliche. But if you can actually do it, it's it's really rewarding. Absolutely. I started, I picked up boxing probably like eight months. ago. And just so I could, you know, get some exercise in, also tighten up on my fighting skills and all that, it has become so much more than that because you, it sucks. Getting punched in the face is not fun, right? Nor is pushing past your cardio point when you wanted to die fucking 10 minutes ago. But putting yourself to the fire like that on a regular basis and you see yourself progressing over a long enough period of time that it is such a good metaphor for life and that's

why I love it so much. It sucks so bad that I love it. There's a really specific moment when you have a friend that I wanted to get your thoughts on from this song because you talk about how you have friends telling you to neglect your dreams and there's these as you're growing you start to move up beyond one of your friends or one of your peers and how they respond can be so tragic if they don't want you to keep going because it sets you on a path of going in different directions. Like, I think you're a person who likely goes, okay, I need to back away from those people if they're going to bring that type of energy into my realm.

But that's also, like, can you help them out of that mindset? Like, there's an urge to, like, can I get you back on the right track? And so I'm wondering when those moments have arisen for you, how do you find that balance of trying to help them move in the direction you're moving while also? so not letting yourself get sucked down and weighed down by them. That was very well-worded, that last part. I think you should and can and have the duty to help those around you, but you should only do so with your overflow of energy and not take from yourself,

especially if they are not willing to make those changes, right? Lead a horse to water can't make a drink. But if you have so much overflow that something you're able to do for them doesn't take anything from you, and I don't mean money, I just mean, like, this is nothing off my back. It's barely going to require any energy for me, maybe a conversation, maybe I extend an olive branch of an opportunity, and it could help them drastically. I think you need to, like, pursue those moments and help the people around you. Just don't do it to a point where you are pulling yourself down. You can only uplift someone from a place that is greater than the space they are in. So if you try to stoop down, stoop down is the wrong term, but I think you understand.

If you try to go down to their level because you feel like that's what's going to help them, it never will. You can't help someone from the same space as them. It's much easier to get taken down than to lift someone up. So I think you should lift everyone up, but not at the cost of you getting pulled down, vibrational, so to speak. How do you approach letting those people go? Have you had to do that in your life? And it's almost like grieving a person who's still alive.

Yeah. I think it's just about understanding. I think when you understand what is important to you and why you need to do the things you're doing, it just doesn't hurt as much as you would think. I know everything that I do now is for my son and my wife. I am a provider for my family. And even beyond that, the people in my, you know, nuclear family, like my mom, dad, sister, so on and so forth.

It is my responsibility to a certain extent to make sure that everyone is never in a really bad spot. And if someone is hurting, then I am capable of uplifting them because I should do that. So if there's someone in my life who is making that more difficult for me or less likely, it's not hard for me to be like, this person can't be a part of my ecosystem because they're hurting the only thing that actually matters. Fascinating. The next song is Killshot. I never knew that I would grow to be a target through the popular demand and overshadowing these artists.

They're all declining while I'm cornering the market. You can either play a part of being a product of the carnage. I'm too cocky to fail. I got to prevail. That's why I stay like. And this is where, like, I like albums because I feel like there's a logic to what's taking place. And the flow from war into Killshot

really ties nicely together. Was that intentional? Yes. So once the album is finished and I feel like I have all the appropriate energies that are required for an album, some introspective records, some bangers, some, you know, fill in the blank. Everything in between from sad to introspective to motivational to I just want to make a fucking hit and screaming at people. Once I have all that, the flow is very important for me. I think trouble feels very introductory. It starts with chatter and these like sirens. And then the, first time you hear my voice, it says, we're about to start trouble, which I think feels like, oh, shit, here we go. And then we kind of make our way, we kick off with bangers because you have to, right? And then we start diving into a little introspection as the album goes on. And at the end, we finish with Beast on Leach 6 because I want fireworks at the end. So I'm very intentional with the way that I structure the albums. Fascinating. The song

on your mind is one of my favorites. It is, I think, Rebecca's favorite. right now, because you have these really great lines, like, again, going back to this idea of, like, seeing everybody jogging in place. They hold energy, but hates and grain deep down in their identity. He's trying to ride the co-tale and follow as you win it. And then they're going to claim the day was down from the beginning. And having me love me, I know I'll be this fine. They try to take me down that can't get rid of my shine.

And watching that happen and seeing people, again, maybe doing these nine to fives, maybe doing the best they can within that role, but like they're not going anywhere. And they don't have, to your point, that purpose that's driving them to something inspirational. And like, it's such a pleasure to be able to interview you because it's an honor to look over and see someone else just giving it 115%. Like just going full force at their craft. And I know that that's more your world.

Like you're surrounded by people with that mindset. But in the podcasting world, we have that to a lot less extent. And so to be able to like chat with you and hear you being like, I'm just grinding, I'm putting in the work on these songs. I know that you have such a high bar for what you're willing to release to just work with and speak with individuals like yourself is it adds that fuel to the fire. And then when you see people jogging in place, it's like it's almost like they're just missing the opportunity to like live their lifefully. Yeah, I agree. And if you want to live a less purpose, full driven lifestyle that's on you go ahead i'm not going to yell you don't have time don't have

the energy but don't give me fucking advice stupid i'm not i don't care i don't care what you say that's that's my biggest issue is like do you and i don't care the crazy thing is i'm doing me and you care why do you care what i'm doing just focus on you and the fact that you lack the self-awareness to even think you should be telling me what to do is nuts my biggest like pet peeve with people in general is lack of self-awareness. That shit drives me up a wall. Whether it's situational self-awareness or just like you don't even understand who you are as a person where your flaws are, your faults, your positives. I have such a hyper like like OCD view of all my shortcomings and places I thrive in that when people completely

lack self-awareness, it blows my mind. I'm like, my self-awareness, and I'm saying this to like a detriment at a point, my self-awareness, I lose sleep over how self-aware I am, because I'm like, oh, I shouldn't have done that. Oh, my God, why am I doing this? I could be doing this better. So, yeah, when people, people who are doing jack shit with their life and then give you, what's the word I'm looking for? Advice that was not even asked for. I was not even asked for it's just bananas to me it's so crazy to me i talk to my wife about all the time i'm like can you imagine just walking around and waking up every day and having that little self-awareness like your head is la la land i can't imagine what living in your brain is like i completely agree with you

and i think the big tragedy and i think about this a lot is we often end up giving more time to people who pull that type of crap in our life, then the good people who are just on our side backing us. Like, if somebody pisses you off or me off, like, I kind of go like, well, why are they like that? Why are they doing this? How do they end up here? How do I resolve it?

How do I touch base with them? How do I word it? How do I make sure I approach it in the right way? And I get, I could spend three hours thinking about that, knowing that they're not thinking about it at all. Like, it's not, they've moved on. They're doing their own thing. And then it's like, and then somebody has your back.

and say like Rebecca makes breakfast for me or something and like and I just go oh thank you very much and move on from that and I'm giving somebody else who's causing problems three hours of my day thinking about how they impacted me and it just seems almost unjust it goes back to what we said before it's easier to be pulled down than it is to lift others up and I think that's why we fall into those traps so easily but you just got it like if you have your people right you have your you have your lady you have your family you have your friends the ones that are closed and you don't have to deal with shit like that with. If you, once you have those people,

and I'm not saying don't make new friends, but once you have those people, it doesn't really matter when negative-ass people, regardless of how close or far they are from you, try to be like that, because you're like, I don't need to deal with this. And that's a very important word.

You're like, I don't need to do this. I'm doing this by choice. I'm just going to click the big red button on my phone right now because I can. I don't owe you anything. I don't even owe you a good buy. I'm just going to hit this button, and then it's over.

I love that. So this song is the start of you actually having Binks and Messetti on the album. And you have two songs with them. Of course, I was, again, excited to see Binks because high frequency, like that tie into your starting out. And in a previous conversation, you talked about how you learned a lot during that process and how that album kind of came together. And I love that piece.

How did these songs come together, particularly on your mind? let me think on your mind wow so this one's a little weird so on your mind that verse i recorded probably two years ago if not more and to a different beat and i was like we're finishing up the album to like the last quarter of the album and i'm scrolling through my sessions on my computer and i find that i was like this verse is kind of like something it's got some real cool energy to it it's saying some motivational things, but it's real swaggy and slightly condescending in a nice way. And so I was like, let's build it out.

I hit up Mass of Man's producer and was like, hey, can you make a beat around this a cappella? And he sent that back for a try. And I was like, this is actually perfect. And then, um, uh, again, I record a scat hook, which is basically just no words. It's all melody. You crank the auto tune to 100 and you just start singing. And you're like, ooh, these notes are really.

really nice. And then I sent that to Massetti. And I was like, these notes, something like this, but you write the whole hook, right? He sends me back that hook, first try. And I was like, dude, you're incredible. And then I knew

Binks would go well on it because, again, we're me and Binks overlap. I think me and Binks overlap in a few more places than other artists because we're both like OCD, psychotic people. So our styles vary, very drastically. Like, We have a wide range of what we both like to do.

But I know Binks can wrap his ass off, and I love how melodic he can be within his rapping. I think there's artists like me, for example, who I will rap, and then I have melodic sections because I like to go all in on my melodic sections. Binks has this way of intertwining melody into just his regular rap parts that you may not necessarily even know we're melodic unless you were paying attention. It's like, I don't be annoying, man. Stake when I was doing.

That's the way it turned. They can start falling out. People, that's the way. No, I'm thinking of a different record. But either way. There's a part in the song where he speeds up in the cadence of how he's speaking. It flows and I had to chill down my back when he did that because it was like there's that like balance between chaos and order. And when he chose to speed up, it was like, whoa, that was not what the flow that you were expecting going into this.

So smooth. But when they end of the telescope, they want the grace. They never gave you first. That party, he goes crazy. But yeah, Binks is just smooth, man. He's a smooth lyricist. And I think I said this on the last time we spoke, everyone's voice is an instrument, just like a guitar or a violin or a flute. And you can tell when a song needs a guitar or when it needs a flute. And I heard that. And I knew Binks's voice, his instrument, would fit very well sonically. And he's talented enough to carry it lyrically. Can you tell me a little bit more about your relationship with Massetti? Have you guys talked a lot? Do you have a strong connection? How did you guys get introduced? We met through Massive Man. Me and Massa Man are pretty good friends,

and he's worked with Messetti for years. They've made so many songs together. So, yeah, I think the introduction just happened, I don't know, maybe just organically. I don't think we were making a song necessarily. I think I heard a record of Massetti's and loved it. I was like, I got to work with this kid. He was familiar with me as well.

We got in touch and we made See the Light. That was the first song that we ever made together. But now I've spoken to him many times. We know each other, call each other on FaceTime and shit. So, yeah, we just know. We're always trying to work together. We both respect each other's crafts and how we approach our music. And so when a song calls for that person, we know you could just FaceTime someone and they'll pick up.

That's a toxic habit of mine. I could not talk to you for two years just because, like, business hasn't called for it if we're not necessarily friends. And I will not call you or text you. I'll just FaceTime you. And I'll be like, yo, look at this song I just made. And I need you on the hook. And the cool thing about most artists is they'll just pick up the FaceTime. And they're like, oh, that's fucking sick.

I'll get in the studio. That's awesome. You mentioned massive man. Do you have any reflections on the journey he's on right now? It's incredible. I've seen him struggle with his weight and eating addiction for so long since I've known him. And when he told me he was going on this journey, I just didn't know how it was going to pan out because it's a difficult, difficult journey, especially with his food addiction. So I'm like, I was stoked for him, but I knew it was going to. to be a difficult road. Now, fast forward, however many months later, and he's not only down like 200 pounds or something, he is working out now. And I love to see that. It's not just a shake diet anymore. It's like I'm eating correctly and I'm hitting the gym regularly. And I think

documenting the entire process and sharing it with the world before you've even achieved the goal that you told everyone you're going to achieve is so courageous. And I have nothing but respect for what he's doing. I'm very happy to see him become healthy and happier as a result. It just goes back to that point of being able to see other people doing their thing and like choosing that path to your point. It's like how many people make New Year's resolutions, like everybody and how many people follow through? Not very many. And to go through that and to share the tough days and the good days is like there's something really like profound about that because it's so easy to see where people end up that Jeff Bezos is the Elon Musk and go,

oh, well, they had this moment where life got easier for them or they had that moment. You don't see the moment where, like, Elon Musk is sitting on the ground in his, in his factory, trying to make everything work and it's just not working. You only see the success today. And for him to share that, I felt like it was so brave and really, really vulnerable to share that part of your life because it's something you're not proud of. so there's an instinct to want to put it under the carpet and not talk about it. I think that's why it's resonating so well, though, especially, like, on social media,

which is a highlight reel, and you're choosing to show exactly the opposite of that, which I think is what's connecting with everybody. I think people are starting to get a little tired of the perfected, only shiny content. And it's like, hey, look at me, look at me, buy my stuff, buy my stuff. So, yeah, it's really, I respect what he's doing big time. And I think social media is, I had a little brain blast about social media. Granted, I'm not doing it as I should because the same reason I don't put the lyrics on my songs. But I had this fucking brain blast.

I was watching TV with my wife the other day. And we're watching, like, Guy Fietti, what is it, diners, drive-ins and dives, right? And it hit me. I'm like, oh my God, everyone's doing social media wrong, including me. And she's like, what do you mean? I said, it's just a TV network. Your page is a TV network and you just don't need to go to any big company to do it anymore. But you can quite literally just create, that's your channel.

If your channel 33 or 52, like your page is just your channel and your network. And if you can create a good enough thing for people to watch, it's just TV without any barriers. It's how you get on TV without knowing anyone that could get you on TV. So it's like if we can all shift our mindset of like, what is my show about and what does the layout of that show look like? Oh my God, it would crush. And Mass-a-Man show right now is I'm losing weight.

Look at my weight loss journey. That's such a good point because once you kind of zoom out to like what is the main purpose of what I'm posting about, then people understand why they're clicking and watching and tuning in but sometimes you don't know because your instinct is like I've got to post something got a new song, got to post it and you're trying to find a way

to fit your content into your channel rather than letting your channel be and letting everything kind of happen organically. Yeah and we're mimicking what other people are doing that has worked. So like what are you trying to? You're doing the worst version of their show instead of just making your own show. I think once you could figure out

a unique way to present your craft or whatever it is you're doing in like a show format you're going to crush even Michael Manelli right now with his step to the mic thing that's a TV show dude that's a that's a TV show people walk up to this table and they they present their talent that's a literal TV show so I think if you can get creative enough and create your own little show to present your craft it's that's the moneymaker right there Amazing. The song I Wish with NK, of course, you know, I'm excited to see it because you guys have been on, like, different journeys of different songs with different styles, and I really appreciate the approach you guys have. I've been getting high, losing my mind, got to be more to my life, trying to get by, swallow my bye, everything will be all right. How did that collab come about?

That was just me and him hanging out. We were literally just hanging out in here, scrolling through beats, found that one. And we had no intention of like, oh, we need to make a song for the sake of business or for the sake of an album. We're like, you're trying to make some music? I'm bored. Let's make some music. And that came out of it all in the same day.

We recorded that whole shit that day. And I think that's why the song feels so just organic and like it has a bop to it. It has a real organic bop. There's nothing forced on it because we were just. having fun that day and made a song. One of my favorite parts about it is you talked about the importance of finding your purpose.

And you may have already mentioned this earlier, but I'm curious, what is your purpose? My purpose is I should think before I answer this so quickly. I think at this point in my life

my purpose is to provide for the people around me be a beacon of light for them and an inspiration and just hopefully uplift to whatever extent the people that I come across.

I think it is providing and being the support system for the ones closest to me, first and foremost. And if I can inspire it through any other actions I take, that is a beautiful second thing that I can do. I love that. And I love how methodical you were about answering that question and making sure you got it right. But like instinctively, I kind of knew

because you raise it in so many of your songs, and you try and inspire others to think of it that same way. And again, I think it has religious undertones because there's something that I don't know what happened to us that wanted us to do something other than focus on our family. Like there was this drive for a lot of my life that was like, oh, your job is what matters and this is what matters and getting the pension and doing these things

and not like being grateful to have people in your life that love you, reaching your own potential on having them support that and you supporting them and that there's something just simple and beautiful about that that we almost wanted to make more complicated than it needed to be. Don't get me started bro. Don't get me started. I'll go

on a 20 minute rant. I think that there was a lot to gain by breaking up the nuclear family so to speak from a monetary standpoint on a large scale. I'll

put it quite vaguely, but I think there was a lot to gain by certain people by breaking up the nuclear family for money purposes. Wow. I think I've heard that, that like one of the big challenges, we just rewatched a few episodes of, I don't know if you've heard of it, Little House on the Prairie. It's like a... I told me about that, but I've never seen it. Okay, so it's like a 1970s or 80s show, and it's based in the 1870s. So it's like a hundred years previous to what it was in the 1970s and just the priorities, one man working, providing for the family, making sure everybody's taken care of, and the family admiring and appreciating that and valuing the work that he does and supporting him by making sure his food's ready

and going out into the world, trying to do everything he can to provide for his family. Then coming home, like, I understand that there's like a lot of complexity to history and that it's just a TV show. But there is something about, like, now you have to have two incomes in order to provide for your family. You have to put your kids into a daycare where you're not watching over them.

You have no relationship with your kids because you're working and they're in daycare or they're in school. And then there's just this huge disconnect that takes place. And you don't have any connection with potentially your spouse or your children. And you're just going out, getting after it.

They're getting after it. And then they want to leave the house as fast as they can. like there's just something so empty about that that deal that that idea of where we should be going yeah and if if you know the children are in a rush to go out and live on their own and and whatever your values are anybody listening is is more power to you but strictly from the the perspective of could there have been benefit to breaking up the nuclear family i'll speak from that but do you to each his own I don't knock anybody for what they desire and what they want out of this life. But if instead of, let's say, the husband being able to go to work and make enough money to support everybody,

you know, the wife now needs to go out and work just for the sake of staying afloat, even if they don't want to. And then the kids are in a rush to get out and get their own house. Well, now you have, you know, three people being taxed on their income as opposed to one. and the kid is not in one house with the family anymore. They just bought their own. So now two people are paying property taxes. I think it's extremely financially incentivized to separate the family. And there's also power in the nuclear family that if you have ill intentions,

it's also smart to separate the nuclear family. Brilliant. The song, Savior is one of my favorites, but I'm always biased for songs. Like, one of my favorite songs has always been me, myself, and I with B.B. Rexha and G.E.Z. because I like the flow back and forth. And I found this track to be beautiful and, like, haunting. Where did that come from? My presence, finding my direction each time that I step into my faith

and say grace for the life that I question. I'll be waiting on tomorrow for the rest of my life. So Savior, again. I'm realizing now how many, how recurring of a theme this is for the album, I wrote that verse to a completely different beat, completely, completely different beat. And we made this beat because I wanted it to feel a bit more ethereal and spiritual. So once we got this beat, I recorded this verse on it.

And I sat down and I was like, this feels really spiritual and tapped into God. and the desire to keep pushing forward, but more in a faith-based sense as opposed to like, F everybody. And so when I wrote this hook, and that's Cassidy, that's my wife singing the hook, which I love, I think,

that just makes a song even more beautiful. There's also something beautiful about the fact that it's you too. Like, what that was going to be, one of my questions, was to confirm because you didn't have some person listed as the feature. So I was like, I feel like that that's Cassidy, but I can't confirm, so I wanted to ask.

But I love that because it's you two together, right? Like, it's your guys' story. It's your album. It's you two working together, yin and yang, honest. Like, it's just, it's poetic in that sense as well. Yeah, I love, I would, I would do every song with her if I could. It's just, unfortunately, not every song calls for it. But yeah, the hook is, and I'll be waiting on tomorrow for the rest of my life.

and I know it's never coming, but I'll be all right. I've been up, I've been down, I've been on, I found whatever the hell the words are, but I'm still waiting around for a savior, right? Should be proud of myself, but I'm still waiting around for a savior. And that is like, I love the internal struggle of the hook because it's like it's persevering because you have faith, but you're still going to have these. moments of just because you have faith in God and the fact that things are going to get better

doesn't mean these dark moments don't come. And I think that we presented that really nicely. There's this beautiful, faithful nature to the song, but also this like doubt underlying in it too. It's so, it's so dark and beautiful the song. And I think that's my favorite part about it. It's so encompassing of life. The other piece that you said right after that was, and maybe I don't want to be saved. Right. And you can see that internal struggle and people can think like, well, of course you want to be saved. Like that's just the logic.

But you see in the actions you take sometimes that those aren't aligned with where you want to end up. I'm so glad you said that and picked up on it because I didn't want that maybe I don't want to be saved to be taken literally. Obviously, everyone wants to be saved and, you know, be accepted. by God and all that. Like you said, the maybe I don't want to be saved is like, well, if you look at what I'm doing, like it doesn't really seem like I'm saying, or that I mean what I'm saying in terms of like being faithful and loving God. Maybe judging by these actions, that's not the case.

The other piece that it ties into, and this is why I love your music is because there's so many, like, I view like life as like hyperlinks. Like if you click on that, you get here. And, like, so I listened to, I don't know if you follow the diary of a CEO or Stephen Bartlett. I highly recommend it. He's, he sets the example for me on where I want to go as a podcast host. I think he's one of the best right now. He's based in the UK.

But he interviewed Eric Weinstein. And they did like a three-hour interview. And one of the points Stephen Bartlett makes is like, well, like, I'm not opposed to the idea of a god, but, you know, like, I'm not, I don't believe 100%. And Eric responds with like, get over yourself. You think every person who's in a church is 100% bought and sold that there's a God and that this all makes sense. They struggle every single day. They struggle together in those buildings. Like when you go to church, you're not 100% knowing everything is beyond a shadow of a doubt of fact.

You're going in hoping and having faith that there is something and you're going to struggle with that. And he just put it in a way where he's like, we get so in our heads about how we think about what is God? Is it a guy in the sky? Is it like the fundamentals of DNA? Is consciousness everywhere? We get stuck in these spots and those are good spots to kind of ponder. But do you believe this was all done with some sort of thought, some sort of idea behind it?

And like to me, I can't deny that there is. Like when you look at how our world has evolved, how animals evolved, how we evolved. Like you cannot say that it's all random and accidental and not on purpose. Like it all looks like there's some. sort of reason here. And that's what you're going in when you're having faith or when you're believing. That's what it means to me to be religious. It doesn't mean that you're agreeing that being a Presbyterian is better than being a Catholic is better than being whatever else there is. You're just agreeing, hey, I think that there's something else going on here that I don't

fully understand. And we sometimes overcomplicate that. 100% agree. Have you seen the video where it's a metaphor and it's two twins in the womb talking about mother. Have you seen that video? No. Do you mind if I pull that up and quote it really fast? Sure, do it.

It ties in very well to what we're talking about. This is the chat GPT edition, so bear with me. Sounds good. Because otherwise I would have to put the video up to the mic and it would be a nightmare. But in a mother's womb we're two babies. One asked the other, do you believe in life after delivery?

The other replied, why, of course, there has to be something after delivery. Maybe we are here to prepare ourselves for what will be later. Nonsense, said the first. There is no life after their delivery. What kind of life would that be? The second said, I don't know, but there will be more light than here. Maybe we will walk with our legs and eat from our mouths.

Maybe we will have other senses that we can't understand now. The first replied, that is absurd. Walking is impossible. And eating with our mouths, ridiculous. The umbilical cord supplies nutrition and everything we need. But the umbilical cord is so short. Life after delivery is to be logically excluded. The second insisted, well, I think there is something,

and maybe it's different than it is here. Maybe we won't need this physical cord anymore. The first replied, nonsense, and moreover, if there is life, then why has no one ever come back from there? Delivery is the end of life, and in the after delivery, there is nothing but darkness and silence and oblivion. It takes us nowhere. Well, I don't know, said the second,

but certainly we will meet Mother and she will take care of us. The first replied, Mother, you actually believe in Mother? That's laughable. If Mother exists, where is she now? the second said she is all around us we are surrounded by her we are of her it is in her that we live without her this world would not and could not exist said the first well i don't see her so it is only logical that she doesn't exist to which the second replied sometimes when you're in silence and you focus and you really listen you can perceive her presence and you can hear her loving voice calling excuse me calling down from above that's beautiful Mm-hmm. I really like that. Do you feel like this has been a more recent journey, or do you feel like you've always been connected to faith?

I grew up, Catholic. I was baptized, confirmed, communion, all that. And then as life went on, I had pitfalls and strayed from my faith. But I would say in the last year or so, I've definitely gotten closer to God because it's just, It's just all that matters, dude. I think everything stems from that. I'm seeing this more and more, and I don't know if you're seeing it. Like, I've seen Wes Huffley go on with Andrew Schultz and talk about his understanding of, like, the biblical texts, like what they actually mean, what they're dated to, how that works. Joe Rogan, my understanding is he's starting to go to church now.

Like, we're seeing, obviously that's two examples, but we're starting to see there was really like a decline. in people's faith, I would say from probably 2010 to 2020, like was a steep decline. And now we're seeing an uptick of people who aren't, like being really strict about it the way I think people think of religion, but are being more open-minded to it. And Gremlin talks about needing God and having faith. Do you feel like there's an uptick that you're seeing as well? Yes. And I don't think it's any coincidence that it's happening. I think the downturn in faith that happened over the past decade or so when compared to like call it like, I don't know, the 60s or like decades and decades ago when things were a bit more traditional, let's say.

I think that loss in faith causes people to take certain actions that are maybe not best for themselves or society. And then to put it bluntly, there's like a rise in evil and nefarious acts. because of that, which in turn causes people to turn back to God. That's a really good point because you just see so many issues that, like, we're trying to pretend could be solved by government. And, like, I see within Canada, we have a lot of non-profits that are funded by government. And what I just see is, like, people being paid to do jobs that would have traditionally been done by a church group wanting to give back to the community.

And we kind of said, yeah, we don't need those people anymore. or we'll just pay other people to do the same work. And then there's not that heart and soul that goes into the work the same way. Yeah, I think it's, it ties back into that, like, we try to intellectualize everything. And I think there's a huge portion of this life and probably like the majority of this life is very energetic and spiritual. And the fact that we write that off, we're doing a huge disservice to ourselves. Agreed. The song Break the Cycle.

To me, I took it as breaking family cycles, and when I just, I'll just give you a bit of background. So we have what's called Indian residential schools in Canada that historically ran. It was a racist policy where they take Indian children and put them into schools, which different religious beliefs, like Catholicism and Pespiterians, took in those kids. They were abused. We have, like, lots of records on the abuse that had taken place there. They were viewed as like subhuman in a lot of those operations.

And so my grandmother was like abused in those. And she struggled with alcoholism her entire life as a consequence of going through that experience. And then so through that, she had my mother and she was born with fetal alcohol syndrome disorder because her mother drank alcohol her whole life. And so my mom was born with a disability. She raised me as a single mother. And then I'm born. And the piece that I find fascinating is like my community. has struggled with this, like my First Nation community has struggled with this because all of their

family members went to Indian residential school. And so you have all these people who are reliving this alcoholism cycle. And I was just elected chief like a month ago to my community. And so I'm trying to help them move away from all of this. But it's so meaningful to me that like one person can make that difference, that me being in this role, I can change this cycle hopefully with their support and their commitment and their desire to do so move a whole community in a different direction and so i love the song break the cycle because that chorus just hits on like i'm walking on a tightrope the one that i need and all i want to do is be free someone showed me how to break this cycle before it breaks me someone get me up off this tight roll i can't find my balance i think i might

Like it's not easy. People are like, oh, you're going to be a terrible chief. You're the youngest chief. You don't know enough. You're not going to do a good job. Like I'm trying to make sure everybody's happy with what I'm doing, while also knowing we have to change so much of what we've done previously that it's going to be difficult to get everybody on the train with me.

And so can you reflect on that song? And I think the impact that it's going to have. Yeah, so dual meaning for break the cycle for me. It is personal internal cycles as well, but definitely what you said also. I think our parents are raised a certain way, like you said, and then they raise us to the best of their ability. And their peak that they have reached in their young adult years becomes our ground level, and then we raise from there, right?

but that doesn't mean that everyone can't be stuck in this cyclic behavior because of conditioning and circumstances and how we were raised. And I think when you get the ability to separate yourself from that and break your cycles, you can in turn help others break theirs. And it's not, I was going to say it's our duty to do so, but it's bigger than that and more simple than that. it's it's just what you should do like you're going to when you break that cycle and see others around you still suffering it's not like wow this means i have a responsibility and i need to do this no you're just going to want to if you're a good person because if you have found the next step or a door that opens and it's lighter in that room and the air is fresher and there's more abundance in there of course you're going to turn around to the people you care about and be like hey come this way this room is much better so it's bigger than a duty it's just right and innately what you're going to want. So I think as we break these chains that we've had on ourselves, as life goes on, because we keep putting ourselves to the fire, right, to success and accolades and all that's cool,

but that's just a fucking byproduct. We put ourselves to this fire and break these chains so that we can do the same for others. And that's more or less the concept of the song. Do you feel like, and this is just a general question, not specific to any one family, do you feel like there has been a bit of a move away from that position that you mentioned earlier where like your parents get to a certain point and then you're supposed to go exceed them it feels like to me a lot of immigrant families have that expectation of their kids like you come to this country they work as plumbers and in trades and they want their kids to go to university and go become the banker or the doctor or the geneticist or whatever the job is but it seems like people who are from here sometimes like the parents don't want their kids to do better than them, want their kids to do reasonable. And I just look at, as we've discussed, like, how our system operates right now. Like a lot of the people who are 40, 50, 60, they have the big house, but the people who are 15, 25, 35, that's an uphill battle.

And it seems like a piece of that is that they are okay doing better than the next generation. And that that's something different than we've seen previously. Interesting. I'm going to answer this in a few parts. When I say do better or raise yourself from their peak, which is now your ground floor, right? I think in the realest sense, I'm speaking in terms of like personal development, right? Because my buddy came to me a few weeks ago and he's upset because his mom's going through some shit. And he's like, it just sucks. like I have to parent my parent. It just hurts. Like you look at them like this superhero. Now I have to parent my parent. And I'm like, dude, that's how it's supposed to go, unfortunately. Because if you are not able to teach them anything or feel like you have superior understanding than them in certain realms, then what did you do with the ground floor that they gave you? You did nothing. So it's a tough pill to swallow that you need to parent your parents, but that's exactly what you're supposed to be

doing because everything they ever learned was instilled into you at a young age. Now, what did you do with that? So when I say become better, that's what I mean. It's for the sake of bettering them because they gave you everything they know. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Now, in terms of like them being okay with us, not doing better than them, I don't, I don't don't know. That's probably a person to person thing. I do agree, though, that it is very common in immigrants to be like, I am going to lay down my life. I'm going to work very hard to make sure that you have, that you're better off than I was. I think maybe the reason that's not the case in first world countries when you're born into it is because you're born into complete

comfort. So you don't feel like the same fire to move. Your back's not against a wall at all. You kind of can just door dash and Instacard everything to your house and, you know, everything you need is in your little box. I love that. You have one quote here. If I want a better life, then it's time I grow. And I'm wondering if did you ever have to go through a period where you went from a victim mentality to a growth mindset? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

That's what changed my whole life. I think that's what separates the winners from the losers, honestly. as this happened to me, and that's why I am the way I am. And that accepting of defeat is just, it's not, I could not do that. You know, you need, again, that's what this life is. Face those defeats, overcome those hurdles. That's what it's about. And you need, if you want to be successful or even go towards your purpose,

there's going to be roadblocks to, to, to accept defeat from something that is inevitable is crazy to me. That's like going on a roller coaster and saying like if this thing elevates at all from ground level, I'm going to be pissed and I'm giving up. It's like that's the entire point of the fucking roller coaster. So to admit defeat immediately from a roadblock, which is guaranteed when you're trying to grow, it's just backwards thinking. you need to reshape the mindset you have around roadblocks

and understand that it's just, it is a part of it. It's a part of life. It's a part of success and growing. It's weird that we can do that with video games to your earlier point. Yeah, we cannot see it so clearly when it's our own life. Like you battle a little boss and then you battle another little boss. And like you don't go, oh, like, why do I have to battle any boss? It's like, why can't I just walk through this whole scene?

It's like the whole point is you face the little one and like I think even good shows. Like I love suits. There's always like little issues that they deal with every episode. But then there's a big boss of the season that they're up against. And so it's like you're constantly fighting something, whether it's something small or something bigger. And there's like, we love that. We intrinsically love that. We don't want to watch a show without an antagonist or play a video game without challenges.

And so like, but then we divorce that when it's like real life. Yeah. I think we as humans naturally stray away. from discomfort, but we're doing ourselves such a disservice. And this quote is about criticism, but I think it rhymes well with what we're speaking about. It's like, if you want to avoid criticism, you can just do nothing and be nothing. The problem with that is you won't be able to escape your own criticism at that point. So I think if you try to avoid these roadblocks that are inevitable on the road to success,

you're going to get hit with the cost and negative outcomes of not even trying, which are going to be worse than those roadblocks because at least the roadblocks are temporary. Exactly. The song, Nostalgic, the part that I really liked about it, was I Wake and Defy Limits. I've got a divine image. I wake and Defy Limits. Chapo pulling strings. You think I'm a violinist.

I'm a thrive in it. Everybody I have. And that tie-in' with me why the rest of your hell down. And that tie-in for me was just like, you hear about people who go to the gym and they don't push themselves that day. And there's that complacency. Even though you went, you did the right thing. There's this instinct to not see exactly what your limits are. And for you, I'm just wondering, how do you keep pushing yourself and continuing to grow when you do that every single day?

It's loving the journey. Not necessarily even loving it. It's understanding that the journey is the entire thing. There is no destination. It doesn't matter what I've gotten so far, although I'm grateful for it. I never did it for the outcome. I'm doing it because each day I show up. And even if we're just talking about making songs, it doesn't matter how much success I've had off songs, because that's not why I do it. It's that if I can show up three weeks in a row and the first, 20 days, we're just not it. And I'm hitting brick wall after brick wall. It's that day it does work. That's like, that is what it's about. And that breaking through on day 21 would have meant nothing without the other 20 sucking. There's no yin and yang. What makes it good is that there was so much bad before it. If you have nothing to compare it to, what is it? It's nothing. Everything's relative. So the drive comes from, like, it's not, uh, uh, accolade driven. If it was accolade driven, I would have been complacent a long time ago because I'm comfortable, thank God. But okay, I went through a period where I was like, oh, my life is good. I don't

have to do anything. I don't need to do anything. I can coast if I want to. That sucks so bad. you think you want to do nothing until you do nothing and then you realize how bad it sucks. So I realize I'm not doing this for what I would gain from a big song. I just like the songs become big because they're great. You know, the ones that don't, maybe they're not as great. But the ones that get big, like if you told me to make my song goat or a song equally as good tomorrow, I probably couldn't.

It's not up to me. but because I keep showing up those things just end up happening and that's what it's all about. I just keep going to the lake and keep fishing and I keep catching big fish because I'm there so often but I catch a bunch of small fish and no fish days and like

and it's just part of it. I just like going to the lake because that's fucking life. This finish line thing is so stupid. It's so dumb. I like that because I've heard this idea of the muse and that you're supposed to go and meet the muse where it is Like you're supposed to go show up there, sit down, wait for it to appear, and you're waiting for it.

Like, it won't come every day. That's not a guarantee, but you're going there, hoping that it does, and ready to accept whatever it comes. Because we don't know where ideas and creativity comes from. We can't say, oh, the reason you made that song is because something happened to you yesterday that caused that song to be created. Sometimes that might happen, but there's lots of songs I'm sure that just almost flow through you. yeah it's all we can do is show up because like you said it's not up to us when that for lack of a better term when inspiration strikes it is not up to you and maybe maybe sometimes you can muscle through it but like it's the great songs are never muscling through it it's you have went into this room so often that eventually you met someone else while you were in there but it's the only way it's going to happen is if you keep showing up exactly where did the name of the song nostalgia come from? How did that one come out?

So I was at Binks'is, we're making the album, he cooks up the beat, I write my whole verse that day, I figured out the melody for the hook, and as I'm just mumbling words, the word nostalgia came out. But I was like, the verse isn't necessarily about nostalgia, so how do we make this make sense? I don't just want a catchy hook and a verse that has nothing to do with it. So we put a fun spin on the term nostalgic and a bit. arrogant spin on it because again the verse is just real a little cocky and fun so I was like we can't get deep on the hook it makes no sense so it says um I've been so nostalgic all I do is win and

every time I wake up I know I'm going to do it again and I've been so nostalgic I'm losing my friends right and it's like well what do you mean I'm so nostalgic I'm losing my friends or I'm so nostalgic when I wake up I win it's saying that like I'm becoming so used to success and like breaking through these barriers that when I do it, I get nostalgic. And I'm losing my friends because the amount of energy that requires over here is causing that. So it's a fun little twist on the word of like a cocky way of saying, I win so much that when I do it, I get nostalgic. Okay. For the song Journey, did you know how hard this one was going to hit? Like, did you have any sense prior? No. When people have told me their favorite

songs off this album, aside from the singles, it's been blowing my mind. It's been blowing my mind. Because these songs, you know, I've heard them all a thousand and a half times. So all the magic has gone for me. But when people are like, yo, on your mind, yeah, on your mind, I wish and journey. I'm like, what? I'm so thrown off, especially journey. Granted, I'm my biggest critic. I think cryptic destroyed it.

I think Lansdown, who's on the hook, destroyed it. And then my verse, I'm like, my verse is okay. I'm not like a huge fan of my verse. Wow. Yeah. And so when people are like, I love it, I'm like, that's cool that you love it, I guess. One of my favorite parts of it is I don't need rest in recovery. I have a blessing in front of me.

And I love that because you're so good at phrasing those things. And it just feels like we've been stuck in this work-life balance culture, this burnout culture for so long. And there isn't that like, you're alive. Like you have the opportunity in front of you to like go do exactly what you want to do. And even if you're not there today, you get the privilege of building your empire, whatever that looks like, whatever lane you want to go down. It's your life. It's your opportunity to reach your full potential. And it's just like we just don't say that and people forget.

Yeah. I love when people are like, oh, you should. take a break. You should take a rest. Take a break from what exactly? From the thing that I chose to do every day because it gives me purpose. Is that what I should take a break from? And what do you suggest I replace it with? I don't need a break from doing something that makes me feel purposeful for having a goal that doesn't have a finish line. I don't need a break from partaking in the thing that brings me and other people joy and feeds my family. I don't need a break from that. So I think, yeah, I don't need rest of recovery.

I have a blessing in front of me. It's so bizarre. You need a break. I think you need a break from what you're doing if you feel like people need to take breaks. You find something that you don't feel like you need to take a break from and do that shit as often as possible. Exactly. And the name of the song is perfect because it's not called destination or final destination or you've arrived. It's called Journey because the greatest gift is that like you come out with like the human experience.

And, like, I'm just wondering, what is it like to be able to look at these chapters of your life? Like, so many people, they couldn't tell you the difference between when they were 20 and when they were 30. But you're getting, like, real documentation of where your mind was during different chapters of your life. It's one of my favorite parts, personally, about the music is to look back and see these checkpoints and timestamps of who I was that a picture could never do justice to. because it's quite literally like my stream of consciousness at that point in time. And one of my favorite quotes is art is how we decorate space, music is how we decorate time. And I think listening to these albums is a real good example of that. I'm going to need a few minutes with that one because that was really profound as well.

With cryptic wisdom and Lansdown, how did you bring those, they're very different styles. How did you bring that all together and make it coalesce together? I think I had three other people sing that hook for me, and none of them panned out. Like, I wrote the hook and I shipped it out to a bunch of people. I think being able to articulate yourself as a superpower, because when you know what you want and you can convey it to others, you can get the result you're looking for. the reason I picked Lansdown besides the fact that they're immensely talented is because when those words come in and are said, I wanted it to feel like it's coming from someone's soul.

Like they mean it with everything in their being. And I had talented singers sing it. But when I heard them sing it to me, I didn't necessarily believe it. I wasn't infected by what they were saying. Like when you play a motivational video and you get chills because. it just resonates so hard. That's what I need. And Lansdown crushed it. When they sent that to me, I was like, thank you. That's exactly what I needed. Energy wise. Same with cryptic. Obviously, he's extremely lyrically talented. But the journey, no pun intended, of energy throughout his verse,

it starts and you could hear almost a little bit of like pain and reflection in his voice. and then as it goes stronger he's climbing out of the depths of hell energetically he's getting louder and more bass in his tone and that is what I need out of the song I need to be taken on a journey without me listening

I need to be taken on a journey from the vibrations alone that changed the way I'm feeling as the song goes on and they both destroyed it in that realm Is there something surreal about having an idea in your head and then watching people bring it to life in a way that you

you couldn't have like you almost can't say what you're looking for that they they understand the assignment almost like in their soul yeah it's it's a two-piece thing right your ability to articulate what you're looking for energetically and their receptiveness so it is like when it does happen it's really special because just because you can explain yourself well doesn't mean the other person's going to exactly understand or be able to execute even if they do understand so It's like a three-part thing that needs to all go correctly to get shit like that. Where did the song Adolescent Reject come from for you? That's a, that's a, for you to ask that about that song specifically, you couldn't have asked it for a better song.

Lose my way when a passion pass. I walk on shattered glass just to get my family cash. A human first, father second, and a rapper last. So I was going to Binks's house like three days a week, maybe even more, to work on this album at a point. And he lives an hour and a half away from me. I'm driving to his house one day, and I realized 10 minutes into the ride when I go to play my Apple music that for some reason I don't have access to any music on my phone. I think my internet was down or something of that nature. So the only music I was able to listen to was basically files on my phone.

whatever has been downloaded on my computer from, you know, stems. So I had like the acapella unmixed from like my song What If from 2020. Obviously, I'm not listening to that in the car. That's crazy. So it's just random files of nonsense. And as I'm scrolling through trying to find some actual music in these files, that beat comes on. It's from a producer. I have no idea who they were, never heard the name.

It was produced by two people. It was like Dylan, Dylan Cush. and oh my god i forget the second guy's name but either way both super talented producers and i'm like what is this and i look and i'm like producers often send me beat packs because my email is like public uh on my youtube so if you want to send me beats or business inquiries you can yeah and they must have sent me a beat pack years ago and i just download it to my computer give it a quick look and if nothing resonates immediately i'm like okay on to the next nothing came from this but this random beat pops up on my way to binks is to work on something a different song

and i'm like this is actually a really fire like introspective energy so i start writing to it on my drive i pull up to binks's house he's like are you ready to work and i'm like give me 20 more minutes in my car i just found this beat on the way here and i found something here so i finished my verse and we didn't do what we plan to do for that day instead i recorded over that beat, that never would have happened if my internet was working. Wow. Yeah. And so how did it come about with Oswin-Benzhen?

So once I understood the topic, like, or listened back to my verse and understood, like, where I was going with it and the intention of the song, it is, I think, the most melancholy, introspective record on the album. It's not about a hit. it's just about hey this is my thoughts right now in this moment in time and i want to speak on these few things right now um and then uh we got uh i think cole this this girl named cole sung the hook and she's incredibly talented and um i'm sorry i'm tangent tangent thing but i don't even know why i started the verse like that but it set the tone for everything like

Welcome to the journey of an adolescent reject, right? And then who turned into a man that's full of class in need of recess. And I think those first two lines just encapsulate where I am right now better than anything, better than the rest of the album as a whole. And it's because from a little badass 17-year-old kid who's just doing everything bad and wrong to a father and a husband who is maintaining a business for the sake of supporting this family, with a long-term goal in mind that we can, you know, do whatever with this business in the long run and then go live our lives specifically for that. And we could put the business aside

because it's taken care of at that point. To go from person A to person B in that scenario is exactly how I feel right now. I feel the shift from a boy to a man heavier now than I have at any other point in my life, it feels like the transition is like more complete than it's ever been as opposed to being in that middle ground of like young adult. And Oswin Benjamin

is just one of the most talented rappers I've ever heard. And he's also extremely introspective, intelligent, and he is one of those people that when you send him a song understands the assignment. He's really in tune with himself and everything going on. So when I sent it to him,

I was like, this energy is good, it's laid back, and I know he's going to say some things that are really, like, profound on his verse. And he, he delivered. I couldn't agree more. What would you name this chapter of your life? Oh, wow. Wow, wow, wow, wow. the third act, because I feel like I went from a kid to a young adult who is driven, but probably still for selfish reasons.

And now a man who still has drive, but not at the cost of other things. And the drive and business is not number one anymore. I love that. The song Who's Next? you say went from a hobby to a passion and a business appeared. Is there a moment where you could feel that that change take place from it being a passion to a business? Can't be a victim of fear.

Turn up the music, grab a fifth, and we cheers. Went from a hobby to a passion and a business appeared. I see my doubts and then I instantly veer and finished college, but you know I've been a scholar and the wisdom is fierce. Yeah. Yeah, the hobby, hobby to a passion, then a business. appeared, yeah. So once the mumble rapper thing happened, obviously, everything took off from me. But I was just on go mode. It was just like, we need to ride this momentum and wave for

everything it's worth. But once I got out of the scarcity mindset of like, okay, we may not be viral tomorrow. We need to make sure we just keep putting songs out and put songs out. And I kind is settled into the fact that I have established and built something that is solid and it is now time to maintain it and grow it and keep the reputation alive and think a bit more long-term because this is no longer about a quick relevance grab. This is about really maintaining, solidifying, and growing something that is big. It's big and it's everything. It feeds my family. It's that moment when I was like, okay, not take your foot off the gas, but stop running in scarcity mode. If you could slow down a bit, greatness does not rush, slow down a bit, and you can continue to put great things on top of this already great thing that you have built.

But if you continue with this, just give, give, give, give, give, you're going to, you're doing yourself in the business of this service as the fans because you're not trying to give them great stuff. you're trying to give them a lot of stuff. Is it scary at all? Is it more scary when you're grinding and you're like, nobody's discovered me yet because I haven't had my big hit. Like nothing's dropped yet that blows people away. Then that moment happens.

Is that period of time more terrifying because it's like it's in your hand and if you don't utilize it in that moment, you'll like you could disappear into, like there's lots of people who've done great work and had great albums. And then they kind of disenfranchise. disappear and kind of fade away.

Is that moment particularly scary or is there more pressure in that moment when you have the opportunity to kind of take full advantage? Oh, yeah. The pressure, that's the biggest difference of, oh, when I get what I want, I'm going to be happy. No, when you get what you want, you're going to feel pressure because now you're trying to hold on to it for dear life. So, yeah, it's a complete shift. Everyone thinks when they get there, like, then I'll be good.

No, you're going to be more nervous when you get it. but you kind of have to root yourself in the belief that you are good enough to replicate what you've done multiple times and you don't have to be scared if you just take a deep breath center yourself and know you're capable of executing successful things over and over and over again if you show up enough. Humbly, I think your greatest line of all time that truly represents you was in this song and it's when you say you hear abundance in my voice. this isn't the product of distress.

I think that encapsulates who you are as an artist. And to your point about cryptic wisdom and Lansdown and how they showed up with the soul in their voice, when you drop that line, there's something like deeper in it when you say it that just like hit me really hard of like that's exactly it.

Like some people, they take what they've been through and the challenges and adversity they face and they lean on that. But there's something about your style that has abundance in it where other people are not in a bad way but they're kind of just focused on the bad that has happened and you have like this like no but you can go get it like you can start from nothing and you can go get it that i just i feel like that line just encapsulates do

that hit you the same way of like that's who i am yeah now i said that um adolescent reject those first two lines encapsulate the whole album um better than anything else personally i don't think Who's Next is the best song, because there's a lot that goes into a song like Sonics and hit factors and things like that. But in terms of the introspective nature of Who's Next, that is probably my favorite song on the album with that, from that perspective, rather. And yes, for the, you hear abundance when I rap, this ain't the product of distress. It's, I think that's why, like, dude, the music is just an extension of us. So you can fake the funk for one or two songs.

you want. But like, there's no longevity in that. You can only fake for so long. So when I'm talking like that, that is genuinely how I feel. And, and I wouldn't be able to say things like that with such conviction if I didn't take the time out to take inventory of what's going well in my life, like I said. There was, there was also a lesson I took away from it. And I, like, I think it's so valuable. One of the pieces you talked about is like, I have to go earn my spot again. Like, I'm going to get up here. I'm going to earn my spot again. And I just remember, and I'm sure Tim remembers, how nervous I was to interview you for the first time. Like how sweating my hands were, how, like, I was like, man, like, I listen to his songs all the time.

I'm going to be speaking to him. He's giving me an opportunity here. And just being able to go through that feeling again, prepping for this interview and wanting to earn your time again, wanting you to feel like, oh, like, I'm going to give this guy some time. Is it going to be worth it? Is he going to ask the right questions? Like, you would, I still remember you telling me, like, I did one guy's podcast and it was like, I gave him a shot and he completely like fumbled the ball and did not utilize the opportunity. And like, you never want to be in that.

You want to go earn it again. And there was just something refreshing about those points of like, yeah, you can start to grow. You can start to have success on your channel or start to have success with getting bigger interviews. But like owning it and earning it and feeling like you're, you don't, you belong there. Because that imposter syndrome, I'm really against that idea. Because if you earn it, if you've got that blood, sweat and tears that's gone into it,

You don't feel like anything's being handed to you unjustly. You feel like you should be there because you've earned it. And I just, I love that energy in that song. Yeah, I think every day we show up to do our job, whether it's you with the podcast or me with making songs, each song, each podcast, granted a bit different of realms, but every individual one should be able to stand on its own. I shouldn't be able to say because I made goat or mumble rapper. now I can make a bunch of shit songs like every song it it if it's someone's first time hearing

me it should fucking resonate because we it can get clouded by business this whole thing podcast music there's money to be made so on and so forth right but we should just be trying to make and create great things for the sake of making things that are great and that we are able to share with the world because they're great to do it at again a place of scarcity or just for money it's like why are you even bringing that into the world why you even why do you even feel the need to create that into existence so every day we should have to earn our spot i've seen certain times where my numbers have slipped because i haven't dropped a good song in five months right and it's like okay what did you think though because you dropped x amount of good

songs you could coast for the rest of your life? No, you have to continually prove yourself. No one owes you anything for what you've done. What are you doing right now? Are you continuing to make incredible things and say, hey, world, look at this thing I made. I think it's worth your attention. If you're not doing that, then you are not owed anybody's attention. I don't care what you've done. Brilliantly said, The Beast Unleashed Six. I have a question for you about that genre. So I know like Echo has like his freestyle where I think he has six of them now. NF has his intro series intro one, two, and three. How does that come about? How do you like you started Beast Unleash one? How does that become its own kind of realm? Because those are also

almost like mini chapters of your life of like your growth in style. How does that come about? Let them know that I'm the Beech beast. I'm calling me the GOD. Even though I keep low key, got a beast on beats, hit him with the Primo schemes, and I'm coming to the beach your team. Homie, you know I'm down to get mental. Then when I say I'm down, I mean tent. So I'm going to be very honest with you right now.

So Beast Unleash won after Mumble Rapper happened, had become my biggest song. Like, it was streaming better than anything, and it still is my biggest song. So the producer I was working with at the time, he's like, we should make a second one because it's just a smart movie. You have a lot of virality right now,

and clearly it has a name to it. So if you drop a second one, it could cause some pull. He's like, but you need to show up on the record. And I was like, true. I like that idea. So maybe initially it was just a business move. But after that, it has transformed into, man, how would I even word this? It's like, how lyrical and creative can we be and push the boundaries

of what should happen in a rap song. I need the beat to sound like no other thing that is popular right now or that I've done. I need to create a new planet that we can live on on this song. And I need to make sure that what I do on it is something that's so incredible that I could just put a box in a town square stand on it and do that thing and it would cause a crowd.

so I need to create this new place. Beast Unleash has developed such a name to it now for me that you are never going to catch me just putting out a Beast Unleashed for the fuck of it. If I'm putting out a Beast Unleashed, it is going to have some mind-blowing elements to it because that's the entire point of it now. I couldn't agree more. And I'm wondering if you can reflect on exactly what you just described, creating fuel for people. Because to your point, like I can. go tell someone like, hey, you got to go get after it. This is what you do. This is how you do it. But music really is that place where you can go to every single day to get that same dose of

like mindset, passion, drive. And you can access that at any time. You don't have to sit down with a friend who's going to be like, no, you got this. You just got to go get after it. It's a place you can go as much as you need to to stay on the path. And like, I think about why I am where I am today. And it's in part because I can listen to voices that inspire me when I'm on my way to my interview or when I'm on my way to go record a podcast. Like I can get the inspiration I need and then walk in and kill it. What does it mean to you to be able to provide that? And Beast Unleashed is such a space specifically for that goal. I think it's a beautiful byproduct that I'm able to inspire others, but I'm just trying to do the best I can. If I had to put it simply,

I'm so happy to inspire anybody from one person to a million people awesome that is an incredible byproduct I am just showing up because it is the best thing that I have found to do with my time is try my best that is the best way I found to spend my time you mentioned that you've gotten into boxing

you may have heard that I think it's a Marvin Hagler line that like it's hard to get up and train at 6 a.m. with silk sheets and in this song I feel like you kind of touch on that like that your ambition was waning a little bit. Where were you during that period? And how did you kind of change that mindset? Hmm. Yeah.

I have felt my ambition for music specifically, Wayne more than once in the past, because it's like, you know, why do I care to be perceived as a really good rapper or better than most? Because deep down, I don't care. what others think about me. So if that was my driver for so long of like I want to impress people and all of a sudden

the opinion of others doesn't matter to you anymore, your fire is gone, your ambition's gone. So I had to change my fire, so to speak. And the way I got out of lacking ambition was realizing that this is not for anybody else but myself. The byproducts, whether it's the accolades, the money, the inspiring others, all cool, all great. But when I am not trying to do better than I did yesterday, I am more sad. And so I don't want to be more sad. So I'm going to continue to be ambitious for the sake of living a purposeful, fulfilling life. And once I realized that was the intention now behind everything, the ambition is a lot harder to lose them

because you realize that having ambition isn't a choice so you could be more successful. It's a choice because the opposite of being ambitious is just going to bring you to like a place of despair over a long enough period of time. Absolutely. May I ask how many songs didn't make the album? Jesus. Great song.

A great song. Great question. Complete songs. Probably three. But in terms of how many songs were created throughout the album process that just didn't end up panning out, way more than three, probably closer to like 15 to 20. Wow. What is that like to have to almost like let those ideas go and just go like, nope, got to move on? Still learning how to do it, bro. But what I will do because there's greatness, there's bits of greatness in all of these things that we've created.

but sometimes the final product just isn't great enough. But so what I'll do is like I'll revisit if I have a verse recorded over a beat and it has no hook, right? And it's just verse one over a beat that's okay. But the verse has some real power behind it. Okay. In three months, maybe I'll bounce out that acapella to a producer and be like, I need you to create something crazy around this.

And then it kind of breathes new life into it. And now this beat that he put on it that I've never heard before makes me think of another artist who could elevate the record even further. And now it gives us an idea for the hook, which changes the entire intention and energy of the song. So it's letting go of these things, having faith that down the line, they will find their home in another fashion. Fascinating. The other pieces, you obviously order the album in a logic. If someone listens to the full album in order, what do you think, they'll take away from it in comparison to choosing a few songs.

Oof. One, I will think they will understand me much better as an individual. I think they will understand the, especially because, you know, it's coming from one person, although there's features. They will, it will further help them understand the complexity of a human being and that it's okay to have these different, sides of yourself, if you only listen to trouble and prayed up, you'd be like, Vin is like

an aggressive dude. Like, I don't know why he's just that aggressive. But if you listen to the whole thing, you're like, oh, we can have aggressive moments when certain things need to be achieved or points need to be made. And that's still, and we could have moments of a bit more sad introspection. And then also other moments of introspection that are a bit tainted by by doubt and the need to prove yourself and then moments of full-blown confidence where it's like, wow, in this moment, he felt like he was the shit.

And that's great because the energy was captured. And so, yeah, I would say, one, you would understand me better as an artist. And two, just the, if we're trying to encapsulate the complexity of human emotions, you need the entire album for that. What has the reaction been from your perspective? And that includes, like, people reaching out to you saying, oh, this is amazing, people you might not expect, the response online.

Yeah. The response has been great, first and foremost. It's such a PC album, meaning adolescent reject, is nothing like trouble, right? That the feedback I've been getting, some people will hit me up and be like, yo, this album is great. and I love it and thank you so much for, you know, everything you do. But because the songs differ so much from each other, I've noticed that a lot of the messages are certain songs resonating really hard with someone. It's more so like, yo, this one song, like I've had it on repeat for the past two days

because what you said here and what you said here resonated with me hard. And that's another reason I like to be very versatile on albums because not everyone will resonate with the same stuff, whether it's the words I choose or the energy I choose. So I try to like do what do they call it, paint with broad strokes so that I can touch the most

people. You've talked about how going into album mode can be a bit of a challenge because you get locked in and you have a project, you want to get it to completion, it's a journey to go through. Is it a relief now that you're on the other side now that it's out?

my brother I hate making albums so I can't even I would much rather make singles every day of the week it just so happens that I feel the need to give the my core fan base a body of work sometimes I feel like they deserve it they deserve to be able to listen to seven songs in a row that they've never heard before as opposed to one-offs one-offs are great for business and easier on my mental mental health but after a while it starts to feel like fast food it's like Like, okay, one, one, one. It's just real dopamine hits. And albums cause you to make a balanced thing, right?

If I just did 12 prayed-ups, it's like, we get it. But it causes me to dive into that realm. The problem with me is I'm such a perfectionist that for me to get 13 songs that I deem good enough to come out is a nightmare. And for me to approve all the mixes and like all the features on it, it's a lot. So is it a relief? Yes, I am so excited that the album is out. But I can't help myself and like giving myself problems.

So I have an EP right now that is done. It's five songs. I'll give you a little bit of exclusive info right here. It's me and Crypto Wisdom. It's a collaborative EP, just me and him. And it's five songs. And everything is recorded. We are in the mixing process now.

On top of that, that needs to be mixed. I am creating my next project currently. I'm not sure if it's going to be an album yet because I told you how much I hate it. But I have a solo project, a full solo that I'm working on for after that EP because I feel like I've been collaborating a lot and I would like to just have a piece of work where I can listen back and the fans

that is like, wow, this is what I did specifically when I had free reign to turn the song into what I wanted to strictly. I'm very excited for those two projects. thank you for being willing to share that. The piece that I feel like is worth lingering on is how special those projects are from my perspective. Because, and you can correct me if I'm wrong,

I feel like the single world, like dropping singles, asks for a lot of energy, a lot of catchiness, and songs where you're willing to be a bit more vulnerable, not that you haven't released those, but those are far less common. And I feel like there's a lot to learn from because I feel like out of seven days you probably maybe give yourself one bad day in a week

where you're not hard on yourself but like to go through that to see that side of you is something extra special in those albums because it's something you don't like to linger on so when you go there there's a reason to go there you're not just going there to pity yourself or to complain or to vent or like you're going there to resolve something which just makes it more

more deep and more meaningful when you do go there in an album. Yeah. That is probably the one thing I like about albums is not everything needs to be a smash hit because when you're releasing singles, you are saying to everybody, hey guys, I'm about to do a thing and you should come look at this thing because it's worth your attention. Like so much so that I had to put it on its own pedestal, right? So I can't put adolescent reject out as a single because it's not like you need to, this is going to blow your mind like it's just a moment it's it's just a space of uh of thought so yeah that is something that i like about albums is not everything needs to be prayed up or fucking you know what

other trouble the big sounding ones you know yeah the other piece that i really like about your albums are that you like address a topic like you think something through and there's a journey and like that's just it couldn't be more clear with the human experience where you just walk through the journey of like figuring out yourself and having your family go against you or your friends go against you or like the world go against you in some regards and you're pushing through that and there's something like there's a thesis to the whole project human experience for me is a extremely special album because it is such it was such a pivotal point in my life it was in between who I was as a younger person and who I

what I have become now. So to create an entire project in such a time of quick, quick change, it's really cool to, like, capture it and see myself, like, morphing in real time in that moment. I was really in between, like, two people in that moment in time. Can you tell me what has your family's reaction been, seeing that they're such a crucial part? What did it mean to them to see this all come together? So I think it's an uncomfortable topic for my family, because as you know, I'm pretty open about what I say and I don't really hold back the way I say it. So none of them have really like approached me when I've said certain things in my music.

I think I've had conversations with my mom, like, after I put out breakdown, however many years ago, she called me because she's like, that was like really dark, you know? But they're never judgmental about what I'm saying because it's, at the end of the day, it's my perspective, right? It's not necessarily like the ultimate truth and there is no other way, there's no other side to this story or how someone else perceives. it's just my perspective and idea on the situation and also to an extent like my projections right because i could i'm i'm telling you what i think other people are thinking so that says more about me than it does about anybody else um so yeah i've never really had any deep conversations with my family about what I say about my life

and an ecosystem in my music. I think we could. I don't think anyone wants to have that conversation, though. Agreed. And I think brave if they do, right? Like, if you're willing to go there and have those difficult conversations, some of them perhaps don't need to be raised

because there's nothing to be squeezed out of that rock. But some of them, Like, it's interesting to see when you present somebody with your perspective how they want to respond to that. And to your point, it's your perspective. But it's always interesting to see how people respond when confronted with your perspective. Yeah. And it's just shit that's bothering me, you know? It's not like, not, I never say anyone's doing anything wrong.

I'm saying this is how this thing makes me feel. And I don't think you can say anything to that. Vin, this has been an absolute pleasure. we've just hit the two-hour mark and it's such an honor to be able to speak with you. Thank you for sticking around for so long and going through this album. And as I've said, like I do think you're a profit. I do think you do exactly what I described at the beginning a profit does of walking people how to think about morality, how to reach their full potential and bringing that abundance

to people in a time where I feel like we are seeing the amount like inflation taking place, the cost of living increasing, the pressure on people going up. they need the hope that there can be abundance in their life. And I feel like you provide that. You offer so much good advice and just in speaking with you, like it's clear that you think these things through, then you go sit down and you write an album. And it's just an honor to see you put that together

because I think some people, they can speak really faster, they can say things really quickly, but they're not saying that much. And there's so much depth to every lyric that we've gone through today. Thank you. I appreciate you guys having me. It's always super fun to dive into the art.

because I just make it and put it out so when we can kind of break it down for everybody, it's always very exciting. Exactly. Everybody go check out, good company. It's an incredible album. I think every song on there is just absolutely phenomenal, and there's so many different takeaways to have. And you really get to process every type of emotion when you listen to it.

So thank you for putting in so much work into creating it, and it's a privilege to connect with you about it again. Thank you. Thank you for having me. You know, Thank you. Yeah. Nah, this one's like, actually, Crazy though, but I guess they all are.

Still climbing the ranks, rhyming with grace. Never shown signs of restraint when trying to be great. Put my soul into these records, I'm refining my taste. My mind isn't bank of pure gems, diamond in case. Look, your man's prolific. I'll ask a critic. The answer's written in blood on the plaques and ribbons. The plan's specific.

Hustle and surpass my limits. I live a rock star lifestyle bands. Come with it, come on. Pursue a couple accolades and then perceive the kill. I make your favorite rapper change how they perceive in skill. The money coming in so fast, don't gotta read the bills. And labels flashing money at me like I need a male Jesus. Guess they didn't know that they was dealing with a genius.

800 racks out of my bedroom, I'm prestigious. Never seen his hunger with this level of achievement. Look inside the bank, it ain't a wonder I'm conceited. Got me a crib, I'm about to get two to five more. When the hustle are winning, they never scrutinize yours. When a man in the mirror told me pursued a right cause, I went from suicidal to the suicide doors. Dramatic, I'm increasing the bandwidth advancing.

Music is dark as Maryland. Manson is canceless. I was making records at my dad's crib. The one you hear now is from a million dollar mansion expensive. Long as a pen in my palm. I ain't got no business ever working a regular job. Picture me checking the clock. Crater replenish a quad. Never been a little fish type on the megaladon. Homie, you ready or not? Because I'm about to make it all clear. If you better guess me, it's about to be a long year. Oh yeah. Ain't no suit in Tiber on me. I've been in the boss tier. Neighbors looking at me like a bummer don't belong here. It's only fuel in the flame. I got respect plus

power, don't confuse it with fame. Never worry about another man or who's in the game cause I'm a king y'all a pawns. We ain't moving the same. Gotta climb till I fall. I survive through it all. I don't swim through the universal line with the laws. Tell them rise and applaud. I'm about to get it popping. Sell the boy a business. I'm running like Goggins. I got this. All around the world they've been admiring a goat. Yeah. Every other line I write is fire in the growth. All this paper stacking now we silence in the jokes. I cannot imagine when retirement approach. Still that shit ain't happening soon. 20x my net worth and then it's back to the booth shit is bigger than the game

this is my path to improve and if I'm breathing I don't have an excuse no I'm talking about