Nuanced. - 21. Lucas Simpson: Artist & Entrepreneur

Episode Date: February 24, 2021

Lucas Simpson is a local artist with an art exhibit at the Chilliwack Cultural Centre, he is involved in Kopialine Publishing, and is involved in bringing public art to his community.Lucas Simpson works with an acrylic medium on canvas, he specializes in in stylized impressionist-esc landscapes and enjoys. taking on more abstract figurative pieces.  When it comes to his landscape work, he is. drawn to perspectives that have a unique. background focus with a. convoluted foreground that offsets the focus of the painting. He chooses not to blend colours because it gives a more abstract and complex perspective to. even the simplest objects.Send us a textSupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

Lucas Simpson, it is an absolute pleasure to sit down with you and get to know the world of art and understand your experience because I think that it's really important for artists to be able to share their story so that people have a better understanding of how they can kind of follow in the footsteps, but obviously not perfectly. It's important to have that balance and just to inspire yourself with other people's stories. So could you give us a brief introduction? Whoa. Hey there, man. Pleasure to meet you. Hi, my name's Lucas. I am a local artist. I've been doing this for the last four years. But in the meantime, I was studying at the University of Victoria, studying theater, but never really did much with it. So, and now I'm a full-time resident here in Chilliwack, and I'm simply here to make some color in this crazy, crazy world we live in right now. People need art more than ever right now. So I'm here to do what I can. Well, that's awesome, and you have an art exhibit going on, and I think we should just start there, and then we'll work our way backwards into where that all came from. Can you tell us a little bit about the art exhibit? Yeah, okay, so it's simply titled Lucas Simpson. It's at the Chilowac Cultural Center, and it runs from now, of course, until March 19th at the Cultural Center, Monday to Tuesday, 10 till 2. So yeah, you can stop by and see the art that I've been creating over the years, and in the same time, if you're lucky, I'll be in the art gallery actually doing

some live demonstrations of my art. I've got a bunch of commissions in the works right now, so it might be fun to get some of it done in front of people, because with a theater background, I'm pretty good at doing it on the spot, having people watch. So, yeah, if you want to come by, see some really fun color, just stop by and say hi. That's so wild, because this is your first art exhibit, right? First art exhibit. So I've been at the Chilliwack Fair that they have down, oh, Heritage Park, I think it's called. So I've been there doing live demonstrations of my work, like maybe two summers ago. I was doing that than the summer before that.

So I'm used to being in the public space with my art, but this is the first time where they've gone, hey, you, out of anybody else, we like what you got going on. We want to showcase it and show the world what you got. And it has been a truly humbling experience because I've been working so hard at this And to finally have the chance to really put it out in the front go, hi, Chiloac, I'm an utterest to be taken seriously, hear me roar, here's what I'm about. It's, it's an honor. It really is. How did it all come about? Because that's got to be such a, such a fulfilling moment for you to be able to go from working hard and building up everything you've been doing to move into this more public, more official, more professional environment. What was that whole feel like? Well, it was, you know, it really felt like the hard work paid off. and I'm not done, obviously, so I've got a whole lifetime ahead.

I've only been doing this for four years, and I don't have any formal academic training when it comes to this stuff. So I just kind of picked up a brush one day, decided to get at it, and this is what happens when you work hard people. It eventually pays off. It really does. Who knows when it's going to happen? You can't set any expectations for when these things happen, but you just got to be open

to all the little things that happen along the way when it comes to success. Every new day is a piece of success when you work hard at something that you're passionate. about it's that's just how it is and so it feels like not that it's it just feels like it makes sense it makes sense that i've been working hard in something and i've been getting little traction over i've been getting traction over time and it just feels like it's it's time it's time to shine my friends that's awesome because i feel the exact same way when i started with the podcast it was just i didn't tell anyone about it publicly i was working on it behind the scenes just trying to get figure out how to do an interview, how to communicate, how to ask questions, doing open source

research, trying to get information on the person, trying to make sure that I was a prepared person. What have you gained for this? This has been amazing for building connections and understanding people better and really understanding where people's origin stories come from. Like, it's such a pleasure to be able to sit down with people like yourself who've gone on this journey and be able to get the story from all of those experiences and the growth and the moments where you're like, I don't know what I'm doing and I'm feeling lost. And then all of a sudden something happens and the person knows where they want to go from there. And hearing that,

like, weekly is just, it's so fulfilling for me because I'm not artistic physically, but I love a good conversation. And being able to do this and get the response and get that traction and have people on has been such an honor to be able to share people's stories. Hell yeah, man. Well, I'll let you know this now that a big part of what I do is showcasing that anybody can do art. That's, I mean, obviously that's what most teachers are all about, but don't worry. You got some abstract thought in your head, I bet, so I feel like you could get it out if you really tried. Absolutely.

Because the part of how this started for me was experimentation, maybe doing a little bit of sketching in practice, like maybe one hour a day, trying to create it. And so many little things. When I got all excited about this whole thing, when I came home to Victoria when I was studying, I was literally making little sketch graphite piece. of art every single day for like three to four months and it just started like I didn't have any academic training when it came to like how to draw things like of course I have taken courses in university that were like basic 101 academic study classes where it was about how drawing

basic structures to make more complicated things but when it came to my own work it was really rejecting those teachings to do my own thing so I just did a little bit of something over a long period of time. You eventually learn your own things and you get comfortable within your own styles of how you want to get something out. And that just goes from there. That's amazing. Can you tell us a little bit more about the exhibit? How was everything set up? Did you get a call? And somebody was like, hey, we've seen what you've been doing. What was that whole process like? Well, I knew that they were looking to find somebody to fill that space because right now there's nothing going on at the cultural center. No performances of course, right? So they wanted to get just

something happening. And so, yeah, I just got a call saying, hey, by the way, we are doing, we're hosting some form of, like, a submission for artists around to show off their work. And, you know, I showed a few, I sent a few of my pieces off. And I, I was the youngest person that they selected for this, because the other people were, like, university professors and, like, people who've been doing this their whole life. And I got chosen because I guess I offer something special with my art and so as simple as hey you have we think that you would be the perfect match for showcasing young artists in our city and that's kind of how it started just simply a phone call and just hearing a hearing an announcement and submitting

and just being confident like not going oh I don't think I'm ready I don't think I've got what it takes like no I knew I know I have what it takes so I threw myself in there and here I That's so important to be able to go into it and say, you know what, I'm just going to do it because there's so many people who are half in half out on what they're doing. You have to believe in yourself. You can't be half assing yourself all the time. Also, can we swear? Of course. Hell yeah. So no, I think in any field, any medium of whether it be work or your passions or hobbies, you just got to believe you're good at it. And move forward. Fake it till you make it. So what was the process? So you get the call and then everything starts getting set up or did you have to start painting to prepare? Not at all. So this is showcasing work that I've already created, but it was funny because I had just been accepted with the commission they gave me for their mural that I did in their ladies' washroom.

So literally the day that I was told, this is what we're going to paint, this is what we're going to commission you. They're like, oh, by the way, oh, wait, no, I'm sorry. I'm getting things all mixed up because this was supposed to happen last year. This was supposed to happen in like November, but it actually got closed down because, because new restrictions went into place that these places couldn't open. So literally the day that I started announcing the original show, that same day they told me I could start advertising it.

They gave me a call and said, hey, by the way, we just got new rules. We have to cancel the show. So I put the poster out. I put it all out on social media. They're like, yeah, nope, you got to take that stuff down. I'm like, okay, that's my fucking sucks. But it was a blessing in the skies because people saw, oh, no, this dude just was about to have this big moment. It got canceled.

Now, here, how, like, the community really came towards me and really wanted to support me. So I did my first ever mural in somebody's home, and that was really fun and impressive. And then I got stuff done when it comes to getting other mural stuff done. So I am going to be doing a piece down on Mill Street when the weather's warm again. and then I did another one at the cultural center. So I wouldn't have had these opportunities to do this stuff if it weren't for that original show being canceled. So, yeah, when they said, hey, let's get you to do a mural in the ladies' washroom

that day, they said, oh, by the way, we can reopen your show. Let's get it started next week. So on top of getting the mural done, doing other commissions on the side, and now I have to get all my art back again, get the show going. It was like two weeks of just a nightmare of just kidding. micromanaging every little thing. So, no, so this work is showcasing stuff that I've already created. But actually, it's featuring some pieces I did in between the first one being canceled

than this new one. So it was hell, but I'm really proud of it. So the, like, how it's organized is I have my landscapes on the outside walls. So there's a, like a moving wall piece in the center of the gallery that features all my abstract pieces of art that inspired the landscapes. Now, because I'm more known as a landscape artist, I really wanted to showcase the work that inspired that stuff. So it's just showing, hi, I'm Lucas, I do abstract art, and I do landscape art, and I mix the two sometimes. And that's what it is. There's no theme to it. It's just, here's everything I offer. And so actually,

on the first few days, what happened was I had people come in and go, oh, so who are all these artists. And I'm like, no, man, this is all me. Because I guess I'm so diverse in what I paint that it felt really nice. People were going like, oh, like, who did all this? Wow, that's got to be such a positive experience. It was just fun. That's awesome because when you work hard at something and you're able to share that and then people are like, this must be multiple people. It's like, nah, it's all me. I've been working hard at this and I've been trying to put different ideas together. What inspires the landscaping and? Well, so the landscape. Well, so the landscape. Art started as, how can I take what I've done with these abstracts and really push it?

Because at this time that I was creating landscapes, I was studying a lot of art history. So a lot of learning about the Impressionists and the post-impressionists, thinking, just learning about their color theory, their light theory, how they were, you know, interpreting the world around them. And I was just really inspired. But like, hey, you know what? If they can do it, why can I? And so I took the styles that I've been creating over my abstracts.

And I just applied it simply. And because I've had already done so much sketching, it was really easy for me to interpret trees and perspectives and stuff like that because I was already pretty natural at sketching freehand. So it just kind of came together naturally. But as of now, like, I do love making landscapes. Don't get me wrong. But it's what people love.

And, you know, at the end of the day, we all got to make it living somehow. So the landscapes still, they are still passion projects without a doubt, but I'm doing perspectives that other people are inspired by. And I'm taking their inspirations, maybe going to the location, or they send me a photo of what is they want me to do, and I just go from there. So, yeah, the landscapes started as passion, and they still are, but it's what I'm known for right now. And so that's the way I'm commercially doing my work right now.

but man I would love to just dive back into my own abstract stuff sometimes because I don't want to complain like I've got a lot of great commissions on the go right now but I haven't had a lot of time to do my own work my own my own approaches my own my own perspectives and I think that that's an important balance because David has talked a lot about that of trying to balance copia line with his other with his personal stuff for sure exactly because part of it is expression for yourself and for your own soul totally your ability to put that out there but you're also trying to balance that with what the people want and trying to keep that business side going. And so can you tell us a little bit about the landscapes that you've chosen to do or commissioned

and what areas jump out at you or pull towards you? Well, I've been doing a lot of our forests. People, you know, people go up on teapot trail, they go around this area and they just love our evergreen forests. So that's what I am most busy with. Like the one that I'm working on right now is actually like an evergreen forest abstract piece. But, I mean, I love it, too. I mean, one of my favorite things to do in my own art is studying trees and going, you know, like, you don't have to look at a tree and get every single branch correctly because art is random, so is nature.

So forests are the most abstract forms of, you know, expression in the natural world. So it excites me as much as anybody else. Yeah. But that's what I do, yeah. I really appreciated that. When you were on the AC podcast, I appreciated the discussion of how trees, can like just jump out at you as like I need to go climb them and I need to interact with this world and when you go up elk or when you see those things it's just when you just stare into

a deep forest you're like wow this is this is different than what I'm used to when you're walking down the street yeah everything's I don't know I get I get it people like having nice controlled little neighborhoods and stuff but it's kind of creepy seeing all these new developments popping up in Chilowac that are all just the same building same apartments same same houses and it's like, no, people go step out into nature, go see what's random and what's beautiful about that. And so, yeah, I completely agree. And I think that that is our disconnect. And I just talked about this with the last podcast. We're disconnecting ourselves from that reality that we're super small, that we're just, we're insignificant. And there's, when you go into a forest,

all those trees are going to be there for another 300 years. And long before you're gone, long after you're gone. Exactly. And you have to grapple with that. But if you live in a city and you never leave, that little community, you start to forget that you're fine, but the rest of the world is not. But I feel like people who move to Chilliwack are like love nature because you look at what's all around us and just what we have to offer for nature. It's hard to not get lost in our trails and our forests. Exactly. And I think that we have a lot of good people like yourself and like people who post on living in Chilliwack who share videos and portraits and photos that they see in our community. And it gets like a thousand likes. And it just gets this.

phenomenal response yeah that brings people together yeah so can we move a little bit into what where you started and how this all came about because from my understanding you weren't always an artist and this is something that you've you've kind of moved into and now you're comfortable within the space so can you tell us about how this is all come about yeah well so hmm when it came to what are your hobbies what are your passions as a kid it really there wasn't a whole lot going on. So when I was going into high school, theater really became a safe place to really be myself and learn how to be in public, you know, how to be a performer, how to think creatively. So at that point, art really wasn't like physical painting was not even a thing in

my head. It was more just a, yeah, I like drawing on the side, whatnot. But where did it start just uh yeah so theater started with me as like the thing that i want to pursue i go into university i'm like let's be an actor why not like at this point before i went to university i was actually doing background work in the acting you know field of film and tv here in the community and so i went you know what like i want to go hone these skills let's go to university and become a better actor but uh you know you get there in the class example of going to school where you go in thinking you're doing one thing, leave doing another thing, that's what happened for me. So halfway through my degree, I started falling out of love with theater for no other reason besides

it's just not where my creative journey ends. And I don't know, some of the things they do to teach kids acting at this program that I went to, it was just like, they didn't really teach you. It was more you had to be good already to get accepted into their acting program. So if you weren't a good actor, then you're not going to get into the acting program. So that's kind of, that kind of sucks when you think you're like, I'm here to learn, not here to prove that I've already learned something. So that already is really disheartening for me. So I just kind of passively started doing theater. Like I still finished and got a theater degree, but I started going like, what other things could I be doing with myself?

So, yeah, like, what happened was halfway through that identity crisis, what is life, what is going on my life? with myself. I'm at home for the winter holiday break and I decided to distract myself by getting felt brushes and a book just to draw and just kill time while I'm at home. So just came one day where I was in a really low headspace. I was feeling pretty depressed at this point and I just went what the fuck is life, took myself for a walk. And so I'm sitting at one of the benches at the lake, at Caltus Lake, time slows down, and I notice a branch right in front of me. It's frackling within all the light reflecting on it. And I was just so taken by how crazy that looks.

Like, sure, it's a stick. So what? But it was shining in this beautiful morning light. And I just thought that was, it was like a sculpture. It was gorgeous. And so I just took out, so I just was sitting there and had this impulse within my head. Just go open that book, start drawing right now. I don't know.

You're not going to argue this. Just get going at it. And so I open it up and I'm just use every other, every color I have in this palette of brushes. And I just create this fun little branch. And some like I got like adrenaline rush in me. Like, holy shit, this was, that really unlocked something in you. Like, you've always had these creative things going on in your head when it came to theater and doing all the sketchwork and animation when you were in high school.

Do something with it. Go, go. go. And so there was literally a period where it was like months of just sketching, like we already talked about, just excited by that creative adrenaline rush. Wow. And it just started from there. And I just told my, and I wasn't comparing myself to other artists. I wasn't taking a lot of like how to draw, how to paint classes. Like in my first year, university, you kind of have to just to get all of your credits sorted out. But I never took it seriously, really. So I never even used what I learned from these classes to do what I was doing. It was literally just my own experimentation

with color and depth. And I created my own form and style that started from just believing in myself, just going, I'm not going to compare myself to the next artist. Do your own thing because that's how you carve a niche for yourself. And now here I am. Well, I think that that's so important because I do, I think universities is a valuable thing for people to pursue, but you're right. You can get in there and you can realize that what you're there for is not what you're meant to do. But that's okay, as long as you start searching for what is. And I think university is a good place to go and try and sort those different ideas out. Because university isn't about studying something finite. It's like it teaches you to be excited about learning something new. Because it's not

like you're going to get out of school, go into a field of work in something exactly what you studied. It proves, no, a degree proves that you have the ability to listen and follow direction and get and learn anything. So like what? You go to a new job and they teach you. They teach you how to do the job. University trains you to learn quickly. So who's ever out there listening right now, following a degree that you're not feeling very passionate about, just go, no, embrace the study.

When you get out of there, you take those skills you learned at studying, you can apply to literally any job. I completely agree. And I think that you're a good example of that because we can get caught up in this idea that we're supposed to go become the actor and we're supposed to fulfill that definition. of what we said we were going to do.

Because, like, what happens? Like, you go to school in your early 20s. Your early 20s is a, well, not everybody, but most people go to school after they graduate high school. And there's, you know how much growing somebody does mentally between the ages of 18 and 25? You become a whole different person by the time you're in your early 20s than you were in your late teens. So it's, of course you're going to might, of course is a chance that you're going to

out of it thinking differently than you did going into it. So if you're feeling like you are doing, oh, man, I'm doing something wrong here. Why am I, does it like just, that's right. You're supposed to be feeling that way. You're learning. You're growing. That's the whole point. And you're just getting the chance to learn in a very specific thing.

But then let that passion for change drive you into the next thing. Yeah. That's what I did for myself. And forever, for anyone listening right now, whether you're going through that same thing, follow that passion, follow that gut. Because that's going to take you to a really great place. Absolutely. And that's money well spent. If you go into university and you're like, I'm going to go become a police officer and then you go become something completely different.

It's money well spent because you grew as a consequence of attending and taking the risk on yourself. Precisely. Precisely. And so I'm so curious as to how that you start painting and you start or sorry, sketching and start playing with these things. What was that like to kind of taste it and kind of go, wow, this is something that I'm going in this whole new path. It felt like I was the, it's going to sound cheesy. I bet there's some sort of mental, like, mental, like, theory with this. But, like, I pretended like I was in, like, my own movie, like, being, having that, having

that moment where everything crash and burns, you're at the lowest of your lows, and then you get back up and you stand up and you get going again. That's what I felt like. So it felt like I was living in this moment, we're like, this isn't who I am. I got to get out of here. I got to escape. And drawing was my escapism. And, like, I still love theater.

Don't get me wrong. I still studied it with a passion. And I actually came out of it really having a lot of fun with, like, theater education. And so I took a lot of applied theater courses in my final years, which is applied theater is basically educational theater. You're using narratives to teach a group on whether it be something social, something personal, and just teaching growth. And just kind of even being in those classes, learning about what it takes to teach someone something, kind of taught me something about myself when it came to changing things about me. right yeah you seem to have like you're very well you're a very strong communicator and thank you i didn't think i was for a long time so i appreciate that well and i i'm curious as to what you got

out of all of that education in regards to theater because that's where i feel like you're very good with your communication skills and so i'm just curious as if did that play a role for you well the well you know hmm well because theater it play it trains the mind. It trains the body. So you have to really be attentioning yourself at all times to be a new character. You're asking characters, what are their motivations? What are their intentions? Why are they saying what they're saying? Well, that same theory is what we also begin to ask our own selves. Who are we? What's our motivation? What's our drive? And so just I really appreciated that. it really, for those who don't really have a lot of personal identity, acting embraces

what you don't know and teaches you to just give in to the emotion sometimes in a productive way, of course, and that really does help awaken a lot of personality and a lot of people. So I really honor that by just taking that and ingrandizing into my artistic theory. I was, oh, what did he say to me? I had an acting teacher that really set me off. He said, be more authentic. Like when he was, like, we were taking a course in acting for non-majors, and he said, I don't think you're being authentic enough.

I want you to be more authentic within the self to act. And I, that pissed me off so much that I went home and I did my first painting on paper with black brushes maybe someone who's looking at my Instagram right now it's like it's like this hunched over swirly black mess actually my friend ended up buying it but like it's called be more authentic

and it was when I embraced the brush to instead of I moved away from the sketchbook and I went to paper with paint and I actually thank that acting coach for pushing me to be more authentic because here I am being more authentic what was what was that whole process like what were what did you take that as take that statement as what did you think of i mean of course

with acting and next you don't take it personal because he's not telling me hey you suck get better as like being who i am he's telling me to no be more authentic in the character that i'm playing but i was in a really sensitive headspace that day i took that personally and i and i was like he telling me to be more authentic with it myself fuck that guy i'm going to move from sketching to painting. Fuck you. But hey, you know, I love the dude at the same time. Thank you for pushing me without you even really knowing you were pushing me. Wow, that is so awesome because I feel like that's so important for people to be able to develop and grow and hone in on a skill. And then I'll try and apply it in different ways. And that's where I feel like there might be a part of you

that grew in those experiences. Totally. Because you took on this opportunity and you saw it as an opportunity, but a lot of people shy away when the spotlight comes to them, they have an opportunity to be in an art exhibit and they just, they freeze and they back out. That's why I think people should be, you know, people should try theater at least once in their life, because it really teaches you to be confident within the moment with yourself, to be irreverent, to really just let go of your own restrictions and just be in the moment. So yeah, to any one of those who are kind of thinking, hey, who am I, whatnot? Try some theater. Get out there. Maybe study a monologue, put a camera in front of yourself. Be that character. You learn something about yourself every time.

Absolutely. And figure out what your why is because I think that that is something that a lot of people miss out on because we get so much direction from our culture on you should go to a university. You need to get a good job. You need to get a paycheck. You need to get an RRSP. You need to. They don't teach you how to be a person. They teach you how to be a slave. Yes, to other things and not to figure out what motivates you and what gets you passionate about something. Totally. And the passion you have for art, it comes across. Like, it's not something you're like, well, yes, and then I took the paint brush and then I did this. It's, it's, it's, it brings something else to the art itself. So can, can you tell us about what it's like to go and try and

paint something, to go and see something and try and take it apart? Because I don't think that I can get into that mindset. I can only see it through your lens of looking at it. And David did the same thing. When he starts describing, I see this and I'm looking at the texture of this, I don't see things in that lens. So it really is interesting to get an artist's perspective. Okay. I'm not sure if you can see it off to the side of me. Okay. Actually, no, but it's not this bad example. Is there a camera on you? Yes. Okay. So I want you to look at your styrofoam right now. Okay. Okay. And you see the sparkles in it, right? Yes. What do you think those sparkles are? I have no idea. It's light. It's light bouncing off of little irregularities within the surface.

Anything on a surface, it's being played with by light. And that's what the impressionists were studying. The study of light. How does it hit a surface and create something unique? So a texture is simply light playing with the surface. So, you know, a tree or let's see, you got any tree. I don't think I have any tree. Okay, no. So the grain here, okay? No one can see them. But, you know, he's got a bench here. He's got a little surface here with some wood. It's a wood stool here sort of thing.

Actually, you know what? Screw it. That's a bad example. Here we go. This is better. So all these lines are grooves within the tree that are kind of bending into it, creating little bits of shadow, right? Creating this texture.

But so, like, for me, that's so weird. Sounds so weird. Okay. That's not really going to make a lot of sense for anybody who's listening right now. Okay. So, okay, let's try to create a visual image for the listener. You're looking at a tree, okay? An old growth birch tree or something like that. That trunk is, it's, its bark is irregular. It's got the grooves and the bumps all within it. Those texture, the texture you see on it is created when little bits of light are hitting and are casting little shadows within that surface, creating just, just, you see on it. It's created when little bits of light are hitting and are casting little shadows within that surface, creating just, fun texture work. So that's what I play with. I play with ingrandizing on that approach to color. How do I bring out the most in that bark? I know that. No, no, it does make sense. And I think that's making sense. It does. It does make sense because it's hard to explain. It's hard to explain, but it's also not a lens that most people see things through. So it can feel weird to explain it. But it is enlightening to see what you see in something. Because if you asked what I saw when I went on like up elk mountain I'd be like I saw some trees and that is the level of

analysis that I offer I want next time you're hiking I want you to get as close to you can to a trunk you're going to look goofy but who the fuck cares you're in a forest appreciating it get up close and really just appreciate the weathering on the on the trunk the textures that are being created by the wind and rain constantly smashing at this thing over over decades over hundreds of years and you really begin to appreciate that stuff and that's what the work became for me when i was when i was in when i was in victoria i'd go on these really nice long walks and i would be inspired by the texture i find in rocks the texture i find in branches and trunks of all the trees because they have gary oak trees in in victoria that are just on every street and just the way the

branches would twist with each other above the sidewalks and whatnot, it's hard not to get distracted by it. So my texture work where I do a bunch of fragmented brushstrokes, I'm not sure if you've seen any of my work, but like all these fragmented brushstrokes are inspired by the looseness of those textures found in all of those surfaces. Yeah. Wow. See, that's where it gets so deep, though, and like being a law student, I get used to the legal perspective on things and viewing things Why is that guy standing on that dude's property for too long looking at a tree? You should probably move on. But I think, you know, I think it's just important to be able to play with different ideas.

And that's why it's so great to have artists on like yourself, because you offer a different perspective from what everybody is kind of used to. I think when you're watching Netflix or you're watching YouTube, you're getting a pre-decided idea on how things should be because everything's kind of set up in the scene. and they're not getting you to focus on one thing and go out into the world and start hunting for uniqueness in the world. Because everything moves so fast now. We got YouTube videos where it's like three minutes of your attention, move, move on, moving on to the next thing. You know, it's this,

with how much is being thrown at us, we're forgetting what it takes to appreciate the slow time, the slow bits of the moment. So it becomes awkward to look at a tree for 40 seconds. People think that's a little too much time even because of people sitting. just on YouTube and just being fed stuff that has already been experimented with and you're seeing the final product. You're not seeing the hours of editing, the hours of getting perspective or getting concept art ready to go with whatever it might be. So yeah, I agree to that. I agree that people just need to take a little more time, slow down and just appreciate the world around you. What are the benefits you've seen from that? Because obviously if you go out and you're looking

at trees and you're interacting and you're trying to figure out what you want to move forward with or what's jumping out at you. What does that bring to you? What benefits do you experience? Because it sounds like meditation. I was literally just going to say it feels like a form of meditation and just going like we're all connected. The whole world around us is connected and take time to appreciate what is essentially a part of your existence as well. And people forget to do that. People think it's lame. People think it's silly to just stop in the moment. But no, do it, please. because that's how you form an appreciation for the world around you. And, like, art really brought me out of a dark spot in my life.

Just being depressed. An early 20s kid, figuring out what the hell is life. Art became a form of meditation and excitement for the next day. Like, what am I going to discover on my next walk? How am I going to surprise myself in my next piece of art? Instead of worrying about the next assignment or the next expectation of my life, focusing on something so minimal in the grand scheme of things, what really lines up to being one of the most important parts of your day and your life.

So take time, find any form of meditation, and that really does help essentialize what you need to get done and how to take care of yourself, because like acting, it's focusing on the self. Meditation is focusing on the self. Where am I feeling that achiness in my shoulders? Where am I feeling tense? Relax that. That's what art is for me. where am I feeling tense in my head? How can I relax that through painting, through art? So,

I mean, art doesn't have to always be good. Just get out something. Just use creativity as an impulse to just relax yourself into anything. Yeah. Just express yourself. Just express yourself. Can you tell me about what was going on in your world? Because it does sound like you were carrying something during that time. And I think for other people, for listeners, I think it's a important that we share just what that weight was like during that period of your life because then it can help them have the motivation to realize you can be in a dark spot and then you can end up having an art exhibit and being able to share something completely different and be in a different spot in your life. Well, I simply wasn't taking the best care of myself,

to put it quite bluntly. I had always had a little bit of a weight issue. always thinking I'm too fat. I mean, that comes from being bullied as a kid for being the fat kid in school. That really sat with me for a long time. And so I went through a period where, this is going to be on the open. All right, I don't care. This is what it's all about, right? Absolutely.

I went through an eating disorder. I got really skinny, really fast. Over a summer, I was doing landscape and gardening gig, very physically demanding work leading up to this painting revolution for me and I got really skinny and I really like that as soon as that job's over you go back to school suddenly you're sitting all the time again you gain the weight back and I said how can I

counter that so I just simply started cutting out I mean I to be fair I did cut out bad things I cut out the sugar I cut up I cut out pop and pizza and chocolate and all that stuff and I started eating just really like lean stuff like unseasoned chicken with rice and veggies getting back to the basics. In a sense, I was in the beginning eating healthfully, but then I got addicted to losing that weight. So I started cutting less and less out of my diet. I ended up getting quite skinny. I was like 140 pounds for somebody who should be 170.

That just doesn't feel good. And that, when you are depriving your brain of those nutrients, it really destroys your mental health, really puts you into a really depressed state. so it was like all this bullying finally lit up to me just losing too much weight and then I had to gain the weight back but I gained the weight back in a good way because I found art at this point and just caused me to be really pleasureed I was really excited about sitting in a painting and nothing beats sitting with a nice meal and painting so I gained the weight back well because of art so yeah I if you're struggling with that right now people just you know weight fluctuates over your whole life and you just got to embrace that it flows weight flows much like your mental health you'll have good days and bad days you'll have

skin fat days but who cares that healthy weight is a construct of society so don't let it push you it pushed me but i mean use that depression to fuel the next good day use that because like i don't know when i was going through a depression i had all all this anxiety, I mean, going, just do something. Get out there. Why are you sitting on the couch all day? Like, we all have those bits of us eating away at each other when we're doing something, when we're not doing something we should be doing. But that one day you just decided to go, fuck you, brain. Let's just fucking do it even if it makes us uncomfortable. Because the biggest thing I learned was get comfortable with being uncomfortable. That is how you get

yourself out of those bad head spaces. Absolutely. And I went through a very, very similar thing. I was working at Dairy Queen. My nickname at work was Chubby Chicken Man because one of my co-workers thought, I think he saw me with like a chicken sandwich or something and decided that would be a good nickname. And that ate away at me. And I would show up to Dairy Queen and before work, and this is going to get personal, I would try and take my stomach up so that it wouldn't show the weight because it's anything just to try and fit in, just to have those comments not made anymore.

and that same person who made that nickname ended up taking me to the gym, showing me how to work out, how to exercise, and how to lose the weight in a healthy way. And now he's one of my closest friends, but it was a very dark time when I was working at Dairy Queen

because it felt like everything had to do with my weight. I would get a photo taken at UFE for my card, and I would look at the photo and go, is this me? Like, this can't be me. And it's just that, like, I want to throw this card in the garbage now. I don't want mirrors.

and that heartache of just wanting to fit in and to be like and for people to be able to look beyond that and know that that was something that for most people they just weren't able to do and it killed every time something would come up where like oh we're all going to cultus lake and it's like I'm just I have stuff to do so I can't today and those feelings of not wanting to be in those circumstances and being ashamed and spending your time being like well now I'm just at home hanging out not doing anything and feeling bad about myself. and those things really eat away at your sense of self. And once I started working out, I would do like, I would do teapot. I would run the vetter and then I would go to Mount Tom. And I would just try and work out all day long every single day. Which is dangerous. Yep. Because you can push yourself too hard and then your body just hates you for it.

And now I have that messed up mindset where if it's minus seven, I kind of want to go for a run because I still have that hatred of myself that wants to punish. myself that enjoys when I'm running and it's just uncomfortable or it's too hot. I've run in like 45 degree weather because I just like to feel that. Feel that burn. And hey, there ain't nothing wrong with that. It's called living. I mean, there's always a healthy balance, right? Like you can do the healthy to enjoy the unhealthy, right? Yeah. So that's how I do it too. Like I, you know, when I gained the weight back healthfully, I was going on really long walks at this point. Like I said, these art walks that I would go on would often go for four to five hours all throughout

out Victoria, I would start, I would start at my place right by Craig Deerick Castle, go all the way to downtown, walk all downtown, go all the way down to Clover Point along the water, walk all the way along the water, all the way to you, Vic, and all the way back. This would be huge walks, and I was losing weight naturally. Like, walk. Okay, walking helped so much during my depression. If you are somebody right now going through a depression, go for at least half an hour walk every single day. Trust me. I know it's a cliche. People say get out more. There's a reason people say it. It's true. You've got to get out a little bit each day and it just helps exercise the brain and the body. And then I start just going on for these crazy walks, getting excited about the next piece of art. What would I find

on this massive walk? So seriously, like, I know it feels good to stay cozy and comfortable in home and be stuck, as you should be right now, like do everything you need to, but get out at least a little bit a day. I try to. It helps me. Now I have an art gallery exhibit. So if you want your own art gallery exhibit, go for walks, people. That's awesome. And I remember for myself, just, I went into the exercise thing, but then it became about how to eat healthy and how to look at optimum health and how to approach things in a better way. And now I do things that I never thought I would do. I use tools to try and optimize my brain so that when we're interviewing, when I'm sitting down with people, I'm in the correct headspace and trying to make sure all of those things are

correct and done properly, getting a good night's sleep. And then it motivates you. And I don't know what art has been like for you, but for the podcast, I feel like I have such a responsibility to do this properly that it forces me to take care of myself. So I can't get out of like, I won't take my magnesium or I won't take care of like this issue or make sure I have my vitamin D because we can get hard on ourselves. What is that like for you? Well, It's funny because art doesn't have an expectation as to whether it's good or not. It's all based on how you feel about it. So it's one of those things that just doesn't, you could work on a painting all day and it might not be good.

Or you can work on a piece for 20 minutes and then it becomes really good. Like it depends on how you're feeling that day. So it's one of those odd forms of work that doesn't. need to be done well because an artist doesn't see the mad like sorry a magician doesn't see the magic right they know how to do it properly and that's kind of how it is for art like i don't see the end result i just love the moments within it so it's kind of funny that my job that i have for myself doesn't have a sets it doesn't have rules so it's like i don't wake up with that like you win with any other job i don't have i don't have to go to work and

get a certain thing done in order to please a boss. It's like, I am my own boss. I can go, do I feel like throwing all my effort into one specific part of the painting, or do I want to get the labor of filling everything in right away? Like, it depends on how I'm feeling that day. So I have this ability to just not have any expectations for how the day is going to go with the work. And that really led, I really have a peaceful way of life now because of it, because I'm constantly attentioning the self and throwing that attentioning of the self into my art and

so it's just a fun lucid life that I live. That's awesome. How do you get into the zone and get into that groove of artwork and what does that look like if you're doing a live art exhibit? What does that look like? Well, so luckily I have a theater background

so it makes doing that stuff pretty straightforward for me like being pressured in front of people. But no, I usually plan it. I try to plan out a paint I have a little sketchbook that just basically I just take a black felt like Sharpie and I just basically do a basic composition, a really lucid sketch of what I want it to be and then I throw it to the canvas. But you know, a lot of my art is inspired by photographs that people have either taken

or I've taken and then I just, I use a basic sketch of the piece as the building blocks for how it's going to turn out. So I throw out the tree, I throw out the mountains, get the composition and the perspectives all correct. I have a day of labor where I'm filling in all the structures with the most basic colors, and then the next few days are just throwing fun color and texture into all of it until it's

a well-balanced piece. I'll really bring in vivid color to start, and then I hone it back with my black and white aesthetic or more earthy tones to really pull it back. So there's like little bits and jumping out bits of color and light pits, and then there's really darker tones. Sorry, can you repeat the question one more time?

I'm just curious, how do you get into the zone? Because I did hear in the AC podcast, you talked about high, high, low-fi. Lofi. Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, when the music, look, the music doesn't start the painting. I start the painting with my own impulse and getting ready to go at it. But when it comes to the labor of the work and just having fun with the texture, music really helps with that. So I throw on, yeah, like some lofi.

I throw on my go-to playlist. And then I just kind of get at it. I just I get as excited about the piece as the person is or who's ever asking of it and I just kind of have fun with it simple as that. That's so cool

because I think that for like when I went and looked up that lo-fi music to figure out what you guys were talking about and actually enjoy it and I was glad that he also brought it up and played it on his podcast. It was really cool when you did that. I thought it was dope. Yeah and because it is something I had never heard of but when

I heard it I was like this would be good for a walk. This would be good for trying to get into the zone because it's quieter. It's easy to to have in the background. It's not too intense. It's not, and you're not listening to words or lyrics, not listening to somebody else's problems while you do your own problems. It's just creates that backdrop music, that background noise as you just focus on whatever is you doing. Like, it was honestly a great, it was also great for studying, great for listening or reading a book. And even if I'm just working on an essay or something, it was great for just having the background because, I don't know, I started with Lofi when it came to making my art

and into my last few years, I would use the same music as my go-to impulse for a lot of the papers that I would have to write. So everything, you know, when I was taking theater courses and art history courses, a lot of the work was talking about art, talking about the self and creativity. So I was using those same feelings from the music and just incorporating into words from these essays. So yeah. That's so cool. Lofi is fun for productivity. How did you find it? How did it? Okay. Okay, well, we're going to talk about it.

So I used to smoke quite a bit of weed. Okay, okay. And there was this genre of YouTube videos called Vaporwave that I would watch. And Vaporwave is like this hyper nostalgic aesthetic where like it'll be like this purple blue filter thrown in like an episode of The Simpsons, kind of like almost looking like it's on like an old TV, but then it would get all trippy with effects. and black and white dots and wavy effects. And then this music was kind of radio static, lo-fi aesthetic would really settle in. So there'd be nights where I'm sitting with my roommate,

we're taking a few bong rips, and we're just listening to this static noise and having these videos play. And it was just really zen, really, really peaceful. And I mean, then I kind of did stop smoking, but I still carried on that music in that, how did it feel to just be fully? relaxed with your body and just being distracted by something really cool. And it just kind of kept

with me, stayed with me. That's so important that we find things that we can connect with and that bring us more present to the time we're in because I'm a really big fan of like rap music, but it's not just any rap music. For me, it's all about that starting from nothing and building yourself into something. Totally. Because that is where I feel like I am. When I was growing up, it was a lot of no food in the fridge, a lot of struggle, a lot of feeling like I didn't fit in, going to school. Like, I would go on ski trips and I would wear jeans because I didn't own ski pants or ski pants or ski outfit or ski goggles.

And so in those moments, it would be like, wow, all these people have this really nice equipment and this kid's talking about how he just got this from sport check or wherever the place is. And I'd be like, well, this is what I can afford. So, like, I'm doing this. And it was a lot of guilt and a lot of shame of being who I. I was. And so now moving out of that life, being in law school, it feels surreal because all of these people, it was always a part of their plan to go to law school. And I'm sitting

there being like, this is crazy to be here and to have the opportunity to learn about taxes when a lot of my community doesn't know about tax. Most people don't know about taxes. And I have the opportunity to learn. Was that why you wanted to go to really give yourself a different light? Like a lot of it was like I was always always argumentative with teachers with anybody who told me they were in charge because in my own life I was in charge and if I wanted to get fed it was me sorting it out and so I was my own boss and so when the teacher would be like oh you need to focus on this it'd be like I don't need to focus on what you're talking about and I was a very aggressive child growing up because I didn't want anybody to tell me what to do and so as I moved forward it was all of a sudden like Oh, are you going to go to university? And it was like, I guess that's the next step. And then I went. I did that and still felt like an outsider, made some really good friends.

And then after I was done, I looked at the people around me who were going to law school. And their approach was so confident. So, oh, well, I got like a 172. And if I work on these LSAT questions and if I do this, it was like, okay, like, you're obviously meant to go there. And I'm not. I'm not smart enough. And then I started doing it privately, didn't tell anyone. just go to Starbucks and start working on the questions.

And I was like, you know what? I think I can do this. And I'd write the test and it would give me the results of somebody who could get in. And then it was like, okay, so I think I'm going to do this. But I've always tried to approach law school by telling people it is not as elegant as people make it out to be that lawyers are not different people. They have a different way of viewing the world, just like how you see a tree. They have this perspective that's really useful in certain moments. And people rely on us because.

We can see into things differently than others. Absolutely. And that's what I think you hire people for. You hire the artist because they see something in the tree, my naked, I can't. And you hire a lawyer to deal with your problem because they see things within the wording and within the documents that you can't see.

And so being able to be here has been such a wild experience because I'm starting to get that acceptance from people that I didn't think would know who I am. It's almost like you are an artist within the abstract of society. A society is abstract and so is art, but you have found a way to create a language within it, much like an artist finds style within their brushstroke,

to organize the chaos. That's exactly what you are. So if you feel like you don't know what it's like being an artist, ask yourself what it's like to be a lawyer. Right? So don't worry about it, man. Exactly. You got it.

And that's where I think that there's so much growth that's possible for people and why I want to talk about role models is because they're not Hollywood professionals out somewhere else. They're right here and they figured something out and they're trying to share it with you. And that's what I think your art exhibit speaks to is sharing this, like the beauty in your story is that you weren't always doing this,

that this wasn't always what your plan in life was. Not even close. And I think people can wake up to the fact that if you're in a nine to five job, you absolutely hate, that there are alternatives to how you can proceed that can bring meaning to your life. Exactly. but I mean some people don't get the opportunity like I was very lucky that I had incredibly

supportive parents that let me go to university that let me pursue art so a lot of people don't get that luxury to do that but I just still think that art can be a part of your life regardless of how you live your life because it doesn't take much to pick up a pen and a brush and just do it absolutely can you tell us about what that was like to bring that to your family and friends and say hey you know what this acting thing moving away from that but I'm going in this other direction because I think it's important that people know that you're going to, you're at point, it's going to have detractors who say, you should, like, when I started the podcast, I'm in law school, most people were like, oh, probably finish your law degree, then maybe

you should start it. And it was like, but I'm going to do it on weekends. And I'm not going to take on more than I can handle. And so what was that like for you? Well, my mom, she owned an art gallery and my dad's a notary. So there's two completely different fields of life in theory. So I got the practical, realistic approach from my dad, how to turn this into a business, how to think about it as a business, as an entrepreneur. And then I had my mom driving that passion for creativity because she also was an artist. She also paints here and there. So I had two really well-balanced looks at how I can take this life into a productive one. And I mean, you know, I, like when I started getting, in my opinion, good at what I do, my dad was also like, whoa, that's really good.

like you should just keep doing it like okay you like oh you just sold a painting that's great let's see if you can sell three the next month because he's all about how can i turn this into something productive and profitable and it definitely has become something quite profitable and i thank it because he i thank him for pushing me because he my dad's such a great role model for just how to be a supportive father like he he just really he really understood like he's he's not an artist he doesn't think that way but knowing that I could think that way, and it was the way that he couldn't approach it. Maybe he's impressed,

but that I could do something that he couldn't. And so for him to see me do it and then do well at it, he probably was like, oh, he's living vicariously through my work, maybe I'm the artist he wishes he could have been if he spent more time with it. And then my mom, of course, she used to own an art gallery.

She sees what it's like to be a serious professional artist. And even this exhibit, it, she helped organize it because she's so used to hanging work beside each other. How does this work hang on this wall? Maybe we should try this color combination of this painting beside this other one. So I'm very lucky that my parents are as excited about it as I am. That is awesome. Can you tell us more about what that was like to grow up with an artist? Did you always have that just as an aspect of growing up? Well, so my mom had the art gallery when I was in when I was in late middle school, early high school. So at this point, wasn't really thinking about art. But at that

point, I was starting to go, whoa, these artists are making quite a bit of money. And they're sitting on these walls like, whoa, artists can be professional. You can be a professional, creative person? What the fuck? And I just kind of was like, okay, that's cool. Maybe one day art's a thing. Who knows? I had no idea at the point. I just thought it was cool that people could, how can somebody do that? How can you make money at something so random, so abstract? You're just throwing color on a paper on a piece of paper and you're making money at it that's crazy and I just kind of went okay whatever that's just not for me at the time but good you go you and then now here I am eat my own words like yes you can if you just try hard enough people love art so just keep at it

and just share that with the world share it with the world because it's not at the end of the day it's not about making money it's about being excited by an approach being abstract because like the whole concept of, you know, how do you, like, who am I? What am I here to do? What's my purpose? That's what you should be answering before you answer. How am I going to make money? Like, of course, you got to do one thing to support the other. Like, I have a job on the outside, as you know, a copia line that helps support this job on the side. Absolutely. Well, let's start talking about that then as well. Yeah, copia line. That's a fun little project that we got going on here right now. I know you had David on, right?

And so that's his whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. So I got involved during the pandemic when it really started happening. I was working at a place. I quit. I was going to work somewhere else, a startup here, another startup. And then the, then the pandemic hit.

I didn't even get one job. I didn't even get one shift. I was quit. I was fired because they just couldn't afford to have anybody on the, on the team. And so I was kind of like in this mode where I was like, okay, I've got nothing going on. I have no job. I have Trudeau paying my bills because of the Serb. What's going on with my life?

Help me. And so one of the owners of Copuline reached out to me saw that I was doing art. They were trying to expand their team and went, hey, we need an artist. Do you have any experience of digital art? I'm like, nope, not at all. They're like, great. We'll train you. and now I'm their digital vectorizer for their job.

So David will sketch something out. He'll send me the sketch online and I vector the image and I clean up all the lines and I create, I help create the end result you see on paper. He sends me the colors that he wants. He sends me the images and I go in and I do all the mathematical lines, make it look all clean and whatnot. So yeah. Can you tell us about copia line and what it's what it offers?

copuline for me what it does for me is it helps and helps people draw who can't draw it's educational tracing right like you see an object it's got to fade over it maybe you've seen copeland maybe you've even done some of yourself yes david brought over a book and we started practicing on it okay so yeah you can do the outlines that's how you learn how to draw that that rabbit or whatever right but my point of view is how can i take that and and texturize it in my style that creates a piece that fits like it's within my style. Now, for me, Copeline, yeah, it teaches people how to draw, but if you're someone who's trying to figure out your niche in style and form and how you approach a structure, copeline really helps you figure that out because you have a whole book that you could learn over the whole, doing the whole book, you can finally come out at the end with something that you can do on your own.

So I go maybe you start with a texture, playing with texture in the first of you images, then focus on one of those things you really liked and excited about your texture work and bring that into every other thing that you do in the book. So I see it as a way of facilitating style within new artists. And especially with that next generation of kids, you know, doesn't even need to be kids. The next generation of artists could use our book to figure out what makes art fun for them. Wow, that is so important. What was it like when you first saw it and you were like, this is what we're doing, this is what we're working on? It fulfilled me.

because like it I want to be an art teacher one day I want to be an art educator in like not just how to draw a tree that shit's boring for me personally like at some point the academic approach to how to draw was at one point someone's experimentation right somebody decided how maybe I can do a few circles and lines to figure out the face I want to help facilitate that own experiment that that experimentation within the next generation of artists so tell us more about that hmm so So, I don't know. So when, sorry, well, not necessarily specifics, but like, that idea of wanting to educate the next generation, copioline gives me a chance to see people learn and celebrate their own learning so I can teach through this product. And that's really fun for me. And it's less about just doing something that pays the bills. It's more, hey, this is great.

Like, this is a great opportunity for teach the next generation. I'm all for it. Let's get into it. Let's jump into it. And that's why I'm there to help them. And that's what this podcast is all about is it's not just about finding a way for yourself to find success. It's about passing that forward and helping the next generation move forward. And I think that with art, I think that what David had said before is we are in an artistic deficit

where a lot of people, we make sure that they can read, we make sure that they know their mathematics, but we do not really worry about them understanding how to express themselves in a way, in a medium that works for them. and I don't think that we prioritize that. It's not seen as academic. Math is academic. Art is a side thing you do to kill time when you're in school. That's what it's seen as.

So, yeah, I think that it needs to be taken more seriously. It is as integral to the identity as learning how to read. It really is. You're training the brain to think creatively in abstract. How does a writer become a writer? They have to read, learn how to read. How does an artist become an artist? They have to learn how to do these things.

And if you're taught it as a passive way to kill time in school, then how does that inspire anybody? So it frustrates me. I didn't take art courses in school, but I just hope that whatever's happening in the school system right now, that they're taking art a little more seriously, taking it as seriously as learning how to read. Yeah, and I agree with you, but I'm curious as to where it landed for you, because you obviously saw like art classes and stuff and that didn't jump out at you at the time what where i didn't take it i didn't take art courses at all in high school or in middle school what was your reasoning like do you

remember any just not passionate it was simply just i didn't see it as what i wanted to focus on at the time i was a theater kid i saw a theater i went to i went to gw graham gw graham has or i hope still has a great theater program has a really professional theater set up and stage proper lighting good sound booth and whatnot. It gives you the professional experience when you're still amateur. And so I was just, at that point, I was just more focused on theater than I was art, so it never crossed my mind to take an art class because I was already doing something creative and fulfilling at the time. Yeah. Yeah. I'm also curious because like artists and David also represented this and as do you is this ability to express yourself in a lot of different ways.

And I think that that is something that a lot of people miss out on. And a lot of people don't know how to express themselves in a meaningful way that actually says something by the end of it. And I think that being able to look at things with different perspectives and see the beauty in things that everybody else misses is something that I think we need to talk about more because a lot of people are just looking at things. And when you say, this is just a desk, most people would say, yeah, it's just a desk. there's nothing about it and I think that that's where we miss out on a lot of the depth in the world because so many things are infinite you could draw the same tree all different times of day and it's going to look completely different and I think that waking up to that and being able to share that more and more with people is so important within Canada because I feel

like right now I feel like Chilliwack is going through like an art revolution where we're really waking up to it and so what has that been like for you because I don't remember seeing all the murals. I don't remember seeing having artistic moments. Dude, it feels so good because this city can offer this city already offers so much and Amber who is in who it's

she's in charge of the bookman. She's been a big part of making these murals happen downtown and I've had the opportunity to work with her to do murals and just seeing her drive for bringing color into the downtown district is such a inspiring thing to see.

So to know that it's already happening with someone like her leading the charge, it feels so good to be a part of it now. And now I have my show where I'm showcasing more color into this community. And now I'm even going to be doing my own mural in downtown Chilawak, bringing more color into the city. I am here as a permanent resident

to bring more art into our community. I'm not sure what I'm going to be doing the next few years to help that happen, but you best be damn sure you get used to my name. I'm going to be here, making a name for myself here, making sure that this city has color, inspiring that next generation being here for them that's what i'm here to do that's so important like that message we don't hear how often do you hear people talk like that and have that energy because they

don't that's why we need it yeah and amber's one of those people that has that voice already and i'm here to help support that and give it my own to say as well wow where did that start to come in where you were like you know what this isn't just i'm not just doing this on the side i'm not just doing this kind of, I want to share this and I want to change how our city approaches these topics. Because, well, before I moved back Chilliwack, I was creating art and people were really liking what I do. And that was really inspiring. Like, for my core group of friends back in Victoria, I think it was pretty nice to see, for them to see someone in their group really pushed themselves. And maybe that was even inspiring for them. And now I have this chance.

I've moved back to Chilliwack. How can I do that for the community? How can I give back with color and you know it's I think the younger the younger generations right now are looking into the self more than the previous ones

so a lot of them have a lot of mental health things that they're working through social and physical stuff so many people are these young kids are focused on the self so much and art is such a beautiful way to celebrate the self that I want that to be the next thing like these kids can be walking through downtown

see these murals and go whoa that's crazy. I want to do that. I can do that too. And just being there for those who are who are like us, you know? Absolutely. How do you think social media plays a role in this? Because I do think that the depression rates are going up and anxiety and these struggles are going up because we're constantly comparing ourselves. Totally. But for you and like for sharing art, I think that that is an important tool to try and pull young people away from the screens because everything about social media is designed for your eyes to

move towards... And that's what's fun about being an artist is because it can be on social media without being toxic. Like it's just, hey guys, take a moment out of your day to look at a pretty painting on Facebook or Instagram

and then go back to being and comparing yourself to all these other people. But, you know, I, of course, we all went through those phases of comparing ourselves to people on the internet.

But because art is such a personal exploration, I forgot what it was like to compare myself to other people in that way, because like I was doing something different. Like my Instagram and my Facebook aren't just selfies and vacation photos and stuff like that. It's now just art. So I'm already different from everybody else on the platform because I'm not doing that stuff. So then I have no reason to compare myself. So I turned my Instagram into a passion page. And if people are worried about comparing themselves, turn your page into a passion page. Start doing the things that you love on those platforms,

and then you begin to love yourself, because if you're always on the social media's constant looking at things and looking at yourself, start looking at yourself in a positive matter. Maybe make a whole new Instagram devoted to your passion, and just focus on that, and let the person be the side gig. Let the passion be the first thing, yourself, the second thing. And that starts to help.

Maybe it starts to help, because that's what it helped me do that, It helped me become confident in myself because you have to start thinking you're doing things differently. You've got to believe that you're doing it better too. Absolutely. And I did the same thing with the podcast. I was just talking with Kim Gemmo about this. That I originally would just take photos and I don't know what I was trying to tell the world about who I was during those periods where I'd take a selfie and be like, oh, like, go and I have my muffin or whatever I was talking about at the time. But then when I started the podcast, it's like, no, this isn't, I don't care about the personal page anymore.

How do I get this message out there? Because it's so hard. People hear role models. People hear these terms. And it's hard for me to explain what the podcast is about because it's three hours. And we go through everything, or at least I try to go through everything with the person. So that a listener can go, I really feel like I understand where Lucas is coming from, what his mission is, where he's trying to take this, what his personality trait is, all of that within one three hour podcast. It's like it's hard for me to explain that.

So it's constantly trying to approach it differently, say different things, and bring in more personal aspects so that people understand. But then I stopped caring about how many likes I got, because it's about the message. And if it reaches one person, that's better than reaching no one. And it's not like you're in a newspaper and the newspaper article is done within a week. This shit's always on the internet. Long after you're gone, think about how many people that's going to bring in over your lifetime.

Same with art. art is with me beyond my death it'll always be something people can look at when I'm gone the amount of viewers our stuff our mediums of art are going to take in over the next it's a history is crazy we can't even conceptualize how much it might bring in so we're lucky that we have a form of art

that will always be around we're on the internet that shit's always on the internet that was one thing you said during the AC podcast that I just thought was brilliant because you're right Van Gogh lives on in his artistic... He's still alive. Yeah. We're still talking about him.

Like, he's still living with us. Yeah. What is that like for you? I won't even know how it feels. Maybe I'll be forgotten when I'm dead. We all do. There will be one day where someone says your name for the last time. And that's a scary thought.

Yeah. That's why I do something with this that will always be. So... It's a form of... you know why are we here what's going to happen when we die and i think people ask that question because they're worried that they're not going to see how the world goes but they forget that you still have an impact on others your kids will remember you your kids will then pass on to their neck to they will die and then their kids will remember them your legacy is what lingers and i have

captured a way of doing it that shows my identity as a legacy it's a it's a lot right that's a really deep thing because i think with artists what you paint what you put on the page if somebody buys that they take it home they're going to pass that on to their kids it's going to be in their house for the good and the bad they're going to pass on they're going to they're going to they're going to inherit someone's going to inherit it maybe like it's a weird thought it's trippy that i've essentially immortalized myself without sounding too egotistical. It's true.

Like, now my art even exists on the internet. Long before I pass, it'll still exist. So it's a weird thought, man. It's weird. How do you approach that now? Because it seems pretty clear that you're approaching this with the belief that you want to pass these things on. When I create art, it's because it's such a moment thing.

I try not to think about how it finishes. And, like, that's how people shouldn't even look at life. You shouldn't look at life as how it's going to end. focus on what you're doing now that will make it fulfilling like when I talk about how my I look at art like it's a painting I look at it like how each day you add a new

brush stroke a new tree a new whatnot I'm not thinking about the next day I'm not thinking about the next tree I'm thinking about that tree in that moment and at the end of it I'll have the opportunity to look back on it but I'm never you shouldn't try to look forward

too far because you're going to exhaust yourself with things you can't control so that's what it is for me Okay, well, and I'm curious as to what you want to do over the next couple of years, with things like copia line, with things like this art exhibit, do you have a direction in which you're really excited to go in over the next couple of years? Really pushing myself aesthetically and stylistically, doing larger campuses, because I think my texture really translates well to murals. I'd love to keep doing more murals. That shit's so much fun. And because I feel like I really do a good job at capturing our nature in BC, I'd love to maybe tour through the province looking at different provincial parks and doing art for the

park boards or for community groups and then those parks and just being a part of celebrating the nature that won't always be here. Like, you know, how many trees are getting caught down all the time to build new subdivisions? Because, like, you know, BC is going to be a place for climate immigrants when the world around us is losing their natural world. Things are getting too hot. BC is going to be one of the most temperate places to be as shit gets crazy around the world. So we're going about to see so many people come into our communities and our communities are going to get larger, good, but the natural order, like the trees and the forests will slowly inevitably get smaller and smaller. So I want to

do my part in showing what we have now so that people in the future can appreciate what we had and maybe inspire them to preserve what they have. Preserve the forests and the parks. Keep it feeling surreal. I want to be a part of doing it. I don't know. I capture beautiful forests and I want people to preserve these beautiful forests so I can continue painting them. So future generations of artists can continue painting them. So if you're asking me what I want to do, maybe it's down that road. Here's the thing. I just started this career. I have no idea where I'm going to be in the next five years of this, because I didn't think from five years ago I was going to be on a podcast talking about my story already. My story's just fucking begun, my friend.

I'm just getting started. That's fair. And that just reminds how you said that about the trees just reminds me of 10 tree trying to give back and make sure that those trees are replanted and brought back because it is about making sure that that is available for the next generation. Can you tell us a little bit about the murals that you've are, the mural you created? So I have done a forest mural in someone's living room. Someone took the chance on me. Let me do that. And I've created a little forest landscape in their living room. They don't have a TV there. They have my forest with their fireplace. So it's like a little campfire within the forest. And that was a lot of fun. I did a mural for the Chilawak Cultural Center Women's Bathroom. So unfortunately, only a certain percentage of the

population gets to see it. But still, it's kind of fun having a mural in there. Because, you know, when you go to the cultural center, that's where, you know, it's a big place for exposure to the arts. And what room do people interact with the most when they go to this building? They go to the bathroom. So that means my art is the most on display at the cultural center. So I love that stuff. That's wild because you think about it and that's going to be there even when the art exhibit is over. For beyond, for decades. What was it like to get that opportunity, both of them, to have somebody to call you, to call you up and say, I want you to come into my house and I want you to do this on my wall. I was like, it's about damn time. I know, I know what I'm doing is good. Because I

listen, man, I might sound cocky. You kind of have to be in this field of work because it's such a, it's such a focus, it's such a personal thing that you're doing. You have to believe in yourself, which means I have to be confident in my work. Yeah. So I know I can tackle a landscape on a, on a wall that's crazy big, that's bigger than this room combined with all the walls. Yeah. And then to go to an entire stretch, like, I'm not sure if you've been to the cultural center, but their bathrooms have these huge walls, huge long horizontal walls. That was challenging, but I did it because I knew I could do it. And then this next one I'm doing is on Mill Street,

one of our more popular hubs in the city before that new development happens downtown. I know it's already happened, but I'm right by the Harvest Cafe. So it's a pretty popular spot in the city, and so I'm going to be doing a really fun evening forest piece that I've just, submitted my concept art to the Chilawak board and I hope hopefully that gets good but like Amber is the one who helped me

do that stuff. She's the one who put in my she's like I believe in this kid put up put some concepts together and I'll approach the Chilac board and see if you can get it so I hopefully that gets approved and it feels good man it feels like I'm I feel honored

that I've worked hard at something that people can appreciate not only on little pieces of their wall but like as something that's part of the city. Yeah. Like, it's not like I'm painting onto something you can take it off easily. No, I'm going on to a wall outside, which means it's always going to be there until the buildings, the owner decides to paint over it or they break the building down.

Yeah. So it's going to have a big legacy. That's got to be so much excitement to be able to start to share that with the world and know that people are going to walk past this and be able to consume that culture and be reminded of the trees again. You're reminded of what the city offers. Yeah. What is it like to work within that community, to work with Amber, to work with David,

to have this small community of people who are on the same wavelength as you in terms of building a better community. Feels like I'm not alone in that same voice of what this community needs. So, you know, I mean, I can't speak on how many of us there are out there. Like I said, I just got started. I'm only making these connections now for the first time. I have no idea how many other artists are out there in this community. but I'm so fucking excited to learn about them and work with them. So let's create our own little team of badass artists in this community who just want to make it happen.

That's awesome. So what I'm here to do. What other things do you use to try and revitalize yourself? Because it sounds like art is a good way of medicating yourself and taking care of yourself. But what other things do you try and do to balance all of that out? Well, I exercise. I eat well. I go, I love hiking, I love running, I love long walks along the beach.

No, I love, I love staying fit. I like, you know, to do something that requires so much of the mental health, you got to be as equivalent to the physical health. Yeah. Because, like, you got to take care of that bike. You know, like, I kind of see my mind as, say, it's a bike you take to work every day. You're going to use that bike every day. You've got to rely on it.

You've got to make sure at the end of the day that those. Those chains are well prepared, lubed up, and taken care of. And you know, you got to take care of what gets you somewhere. And that brain is what, and the brain is what gets me somewhere. So I got to focus on the things that help that. So I got to focus on the health, focus on the self and eat well. So, yeah, I run like you do. I used to run up the teapot trail and up and down that, run up elk and all that stuff.

But I'm not doing as much of that right now. I'm kind of more focused on, you know, I think what we're all doing right now is focusing more the self during this COVID time. And that's what I'm doing right now. And I mean, I'm a huge swimmer. I was a huge, I had competitive swimming my whole youth. I was a part of the Spartan swim club here in Chilawak. So I learned discipline really early on in life and how to work hard at something really hard too. So before the pandemic hit and you could just go to the pool, I was there every morning doing five kilometers in the pool every day or taking every other day. But now, because pools are so stupid, you have to like book ahead of time for like a certain amount of

time. You can't go in the hot tub. You can't go in the saunas. You just have to get in and go wear a mask. It's kind of taking the fun out of going to the pool. So I'm kind of not doing that right now, but as soon as things open up again, I'm going to be back in that, doing that hard. So I know I'm definitely not at my physical prime right now, like I was before the pandemic, but I'll get back to it. So I'm not letting my physical self be too worried. Like, we're all going through shit right now. We're all going through a little bit of trauma in this pandemic. Some people have lost family. I'm lucky to say that I haven't had that. so it's I'm just focused on taking care of the self more and the art happens second I come first

the art comes second that's an important differentiation because a lot of people can allow their passions to consume them exactly and try and think that that is who they are now and I've seen a lot of people start businesses and get hungry about it and start saying that yeah I want to carry this business where it goes and it's like but if you're dying because you've been killing yourself over it there's not going to be business left to run that's why that's why there's the whole stereotype of the starving artist because so these artists get so consumed in being different and better than everybody else that they forget to take care of themselves so you know sometimes it'll take having two side jobs on the side to pay the bills while you pursue this in your own time i'm lucky

that i have this chance to do it and it helps pay the bills but some people don't get that so you got to focus on the self focus on getting those two jobs that help pay it off so you can do the thing that you love doing yeah and then eventually hopefully it pays off for you yeah where are some of the places that you enjoy going because to me like businesses here no like places to visit like for scenery for views because i think it'd be interesting to get your perspective on like you were in victoria you're interested in going to different parks and i'm just curious because for people who are interested in going out in the world and saying like you know what today's the day i'm going to go for a walk where where are some places that jumped out to you that were like

this isn't just everyday while this is something special well I mean the Vetter River Trail is an obvious pick for most people because of what it offers but I really love it for it's I like going you know how it has it has like a new loop to it where you can go over that little train bridge to get over to the side and you have a whole trail that goes on the other way yeah so going over the over our bridge right by the parking lot first and then going the long way around but I mean it's not the most I mean it's an inspiring trail but it's not where I'd go the most for a inspiration um where would i go i mean cultus lakes area is without without any comparison is one of the

most beautiful parts of our area yeah um i mean that's where a lot of my inspiration for my work started you know it started on that lake looking out at that branch on the lake and a lot of my more well-known pieces are of the lake so i'd recommend going to the lake being inspired there but um is there anywhere in Victoria? Because you talked about the old buildings, and I feel like that's something that Chilliwack kind of misses. We don't have that. Except for whatever they're building down there has some pretty...

In garrison? No, downtown. Like what they're developing there has like that little bit of... It's got that Victoria vibe, doesn't it? A little bit, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so in Victoria, I would go to Beacon Hill Park. That's a beautiful area for just looking at the old growth forests of that area.

Just the neighborhoods. neighborhoods in that area like Moss Street was I lived at the top of Moss Street do you know you know Victoria no so there's this area called Craig Derek Castle it's a city very close to the downtown area it's one of the most touristy spots I lived right where the double-decker

buses stop to unload people so I'd go for a walk by the by Craig Derek Castle go down into the area behind that so between Fort Street and Clover Point there's this beautiful area of just all these little

neighborhoods with so many of these funky little trees with little foresty walkways and streets and I love walking to that area. So if you're in Victoria, head down Moss Street and just go down any which right and left street you see. It's gorgeous. What do you think of the legislature just out of curiosity and just like how it looks? Yeah, and the aesthetic in that style. I've actually painted it. Really? The only time I've ever done like on-site art, like painting at something that I'm there in. I took one summer. One summer I was sitting in their massive park, the massive grassways, sitting with a canvas painting it and tourists would come by, look at what I'm doing, take photos of the art and stuff. I think it's a beautiful building.

I think it's got beautiful architecture. And so that whole area is gorgeous. Victoria is a gorgeous city because it feels old. It feels like an old city with newer parts. But it's like, I don't know, every building has charm in that city. And I feel like a lot of cities lose that to skyscrapers and downtown sub buildings and stuff. There are very many tall buildings in Victoria, even if it's the capital. And I think that's special. I agree. And that's what kind of frustrates me is because I wish we had more of that because that sense of,

we don't have a single escalator in this city. Do you know how crazy that is? I didn't know that. We don't have an escalator. That would make sense, though. You're right, because we don't, yeah, we don't have these big buildings. We have elevators, sure, but our tallest building's a hotel. I just wish that in Canada we cared more about our architecture.

Totally. We just, it feels too efficient, too cost-effective where we miss out on that. And I enjoy Garrison. I think that they've done a good job on that. I love it. I love living there. It's beautiful. What was that like to move from Victoria back to Chilliwack?

And did you notice any differences in terms of that acceptance? You mean, like, what do you mean by that? accepting me accepting the city like just being having that support like it obviously ambers trying to support you did you experience that in victoria that same sense of community no backing you no because that's a city of artists competing against each other there's a i mean there are beautiful theater companies and stuff like that that really support each other but i think i've moved to a location where there aren't enough artists fighting for something so it's easier to build a name for yourself when there's no one really around you doing the work, too.

So in Victoria, there was an artist on every corner, right? Every street, there was a new guy trying to make their name for themselves. Like in Vancouver, like, that's why I don't want to ever move to Vancouver because there's an artist trying harder than you and as hard as you to make a name for themselves on every corner. And I don't have that here in Chilowac. There's like a few odd people who make it. So I'm just trying to build that sense of maybe,

competition maybe someone right now is listening going fuck i can do what this guy's doing maybe i can even do it better and i dare you i see you i see you painting let's paint together get at it so that's what i want to do i want to create that competition in this city this this drive to create something new yeah so yeah that's so and there is no acceptance here because there was no one really to accept this until i started settling and building myself here and establishing myself and then i noticed. What is it like to interact with other artists who do have that competitive mindset? I don't know. I haven't had that chance yet. No, you haven't, like, you weren't in Victoria and somebody was like, I wasn't trying to make a name for myself in Victoria yet because I was still

in school and I was focused on school. I moved back and now it's like, it's like I'm actually living life now. Yeah. And now I'm only really thinking about it. But like, there weren't, no, I wasn't thinking that this was going to be the career when I was in Victoria. I believed it for sure, but it wasn't where I was at yet. Yeah. Yeah. And so moving forward, you work hard on sharing these pieces and putting them into people's homes and people purchasing your art. What has that process been like? And how do people approach you with like, I want you to make this artistic? Well, I mean, I'm working on a commission right now from some dude in Ontario who has a cabin on a lake. And he just, you know, he found me through my website, through listening to

one of these podcasts and he said, yeah, I like what you're doing. Here's a photo of my cabin. Can you paint it? I'm like, hell yeah, I can. What's your size and estimate? And he's like, I wanted to be this big. How much would you charge him? Like, I would charge the sex amount. He's like, beautiful. When are you getting started? I'm like, I am a little busy right now, but I'll tell you when I get started. Then I get started. It's as simple as that. That's wild. Yeah. How many times does that happen? It's getting busy right now, dude. Like, after this, this exhibition and moving home doing this more. I have like five or six commissions lined up right now and they continue to line up. It's crazy. It's crazy that I'm being seen as someone to just, I don't know, I think

people love art, people are jealous that they can't do it themselves, so they end up paying others to do it for them. And that's beautiful that it gets to help people appreciate their world around them that they can't do on that level. So it's really humbling, of course, like, you know, to be the guy people can go to to create something, that's really huge. Like, a big part of art is being seen and, like, the wanting to be seen and, you know, being, of course, the young kid

who didn't really know what life was doing, like feeling like you're invisible to the world. And, like, I now am more visible than ever, and I'm just adjusting to that right now. It's fun. It's a humbling experience. One, I think that you're going to be, because I don't think that Chilliwax had those big artists, I think that you're going to be one of those names in 10, 15 years where everybody knows

your standard household name. I would hope so, but it's not what I want. It's not what I should think is going to happen. I hope it happens because I'm not going to give this up. This brought me out of something so dark that it's now become the most light part of my life, and I'm not going to just throw that away. So I hope that happens. But yeah, yeah, man.

Well, and I think that that's where it's so important that I'd like to get more of your philosophical side because I think that you are setting such an important example for young people right now who are like, I want to be an artist, but like who's a big name because that's what this podcast was all based on is that I don't think we hear from the people within the community enough to understand that you're working hard at your passion and that somebody else is going to have the same passion as you and want to pick that up one day and do it because they saw, oh, I was walking down the road when I was like 10 years old and I saw your mural on the wall and it was just like that's I have to start something and I have to try and

do this and I think that that's where all of this is heading eventually is those murals are going to play such a role for young people being like I don't have to go become a dentist whatever you think you have to go become I want to go do the thing that I see I want to give the effect to those kids or those people that I had the effect of when I was in my mom's art gallery yeah because we don't really have an art gallery in the city anymore it had to some you know the that business isn't here anymore and the only other art display place is the cultural center fuck that's depressing as hell for an artist trying to make the name for themselves so i want this downtown area to be that art gallery that inspired me i want

them i want those people to walk by and go i can do that too or whoa who is that i want to what like you know i don't want people to just be an artist because i'm an artist i want people to be inspired as inspired as I was to do whatever it is they want to do. If they want to be, go be a dentist and they're inspired by that energy I put into this, fuck yeah. I'm not here to make new artists. I'm here to make new passionate people. Yeah. About anything. Anything. And about building up that resiliency to say when you're in a dark place that you can get out of it and you can set the example for others eventually by taking the road less traveled. And that's where I feel like you were, because it's a huge risk to look at your life and go, you know what, I don't know

if I want to do this, but you know what? Maybe this, like, you start sketching and you take that risk on yourself where most people are like, I don't want to take that risk. I want to, I want to know for a fact that I'm going to be ex person one day. And that's where I feel like a lot of people get off the artist train and we miss out on so many different people because I drew all as a child. And my grandma would look at all of my artistic work and think it was not very good because it was not very good but that's okay because i was just expressing myself and i didn't take that feedback of like this is i was drawing stick people as a bad thing but it's about being open to sharing who you are and being honest with the people around you exactly and look here you are doing a podcast where that's literally

what it is you're being open and honest with people around you and people who are going to be listening to in the future yeah like this is what it's all about man yeah so i just like to end this off by understanding where exactly people can find you and locate the information. How long is the art gallery going on for? So we are there until the 19th of March, but you can find me at all times

on my Facebook and my Instagram and my website. So I have a Facebook, L.comsonart, Instagram at L.comsonart, and a website that is L.comsonart, Wix.com. So that's where you can find me. So let's reach out. Let's work out.

Let's not work out. Let's work out. Let's work together, people. Let's do this. That's such, sorry, I just have to ask, what is that like to work with other artists and hear from them? I just totally blanked on that because you do get to hear another artist's perspective. As a matter of fact, it's actually funny. I had an artist from, I think, Alder Grove, somewhere close to Vancouver, go, hey, saw your newspaper. article. I'm trying to make art myself too. Like, what was that? How did you get that opportunity? And I said to them, I got lucky because I worked hard at something I believed in, do a little bit

of it every single day, and you'll find that success whether you like it or not. And that's what I told them. And they were like, I really needed to hear that. Thank you. That is so important for people to hear not just artists, but everyone to understand that if you work hard at something, it can only pay off. Yeah. It's never a waste of time. You're only ever moving forward. You're never moving backwards when you when you care about something. Absolutely. And when you can share that with someone and someone sees it, they can see it from a whole different perspective that opens up whole new opportunities for others. Because for me, one thing that I've thought a lot about is like, I am enjoying hearing these stories,

but I want to learn still as well. And so I'm interested in creating like a how to start a business podcast as a mini, series within this, hearing from locals who talk about, like, knowing what business organization you want to create, hearing from lawyers, what their recommendations would be, and being able to set that out so that people can have a broader understanding of how to move forward. And I love that about Copia line, because I do think that that is the instrument to create young artists. And the way David laid it out, it doesn't seem like you guys have much competition in terms of better ways of getting started. So, I mean, to answer that question, if you, I mean, to make it about that business perspective, never, in my opinion, who am I to say?

I don't own a business, but I've only seen what it takes to be a passionate prison. Never go in the, no, with art even, never go into it for the money. If you're going into it for the money, go get a job. If you're not into it for the money, you're into it to help somebody or help some community with a product or an idea that you have, that's why you get into it in the first place. Don't just do it for the money. Go get a job if you want money. Do this to make a life for yourself and a life for others. And that's what jumped out about me about how to start a business is because for indigenous people, like a lot of my community members, they don't understand how to start a business, who they would need to contact if they had an idea. And there are, to me, a lot of

indigenous artists who just don't know where to go, how to start something unique and how to find their own path. And so to me, it's important that I try and get those tools to those communities where they've been stuck and they've been stagnant and they're hesitant on where to go and they don't have information on how to do things. And like a lot of our world is just based on asking the right people, the right questions. And if you're living far from like businesses, you won't know how to start businesses. You won't know what ideas, how to approach it and how to do things in a more cost effective way and not being able to ask people is again, the reason I started this is because we never get to hear from the artists unless we do something.

like this where we get them in a room. Most conversations are private. And if somebody asks you, hey, how did you do this? You'll tell that person, but that doesn't hit the mainstream. It doesn't reach me, a person who doesn't know much about art. And I think it's important to address those deficits and knowledge. Well, look, I started somewhere very small. It was me and my friends, me and my family, me and family friends, me and their family friends friends. It has to start small to get big. You can't just expect you're going to be this huge thing out of nowhere. And maybe that's how business is too. You just got to start with an idea.

Your friend likes it. Their friends like it. Their family's friends like it. And then it goes from there. And that's where I have been with my work now. So it's about who you know, but you don't know everybody right off the bat. Yeah. Right.

Lucas, you are an incredibly inspiring person. I feel like it is incredible where you started from and not being an artist. and being more into a different area and then moving into this and having such a drive, such a passion that comes through in how you're communicating, in how you're just directly addressing the issues

and saying that you want to see more people doing these types of things. I think that we need more of that in this community, I think that building up the next generations of artists, I mean, you're only 25. I'm only 25, and I feel like both of us have a lot of work to do in moving our community forward in a better direction.

Then let's get it done. Let's do it. Thank you.