Nuanced. - 219. Trevor Halford: John Rustad’s Exit & the BC Conservative's Future

Episode Date: January 5, 2026

Interim leader of the BC Conservative Party, Trevor Halford, joins to explain John Rustad’s exit, caucus stability, and the leadership race. Send us a textSupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

Would you just mind walking us through that chapter of the party? John was a guy that brought us from nothing to this, through nothing but sheer hard work. And we all owe him a debt of gratitude for that. There was support in the polls and there was support in the leadership review for Mr. Rustette. So how do you square these two pieces that seem kind of separate and distinct? I'm obviously not sure who was putting forward the idea of the incapacitation piece. But I think that read very strange. to a lot of everyday people.

Be blunt to it. I never want to get to that position again. I don't. Because it's, we have more important things to do than focus on that. I don't want to come to Victoria or go into my grocery store and have people say, you guys need to get your shit together because things are so bad right now in this province. Why were you selected as interim leader? Two big things.

I want to really bring stability to our caucus and our party. And the second is, is I want to hand it off. to the next person in better condition than when I found it. What does the leadership process look like moving forward from your perspective if an election isn't cold? Mr. Helford, it is an honor to have you on the program this morning. Thank you so much for joining us. Would you mind briefly introducing yourself for people who might not be acquainted?

Thanks, Aaron, for having me. Trevor Helford, I'm the MLA for Surrey White Rock, and now the interim leader of the Conservative Party of British Columbia. Born and raised in the community that I represent. I absolutely love it out here. I was first elected in 2020 and then I was re-elected in 2024. So, you know, loving the role here, but I really do, I do love serving my community. Dad, the three kids, Cubs fan, love football, and yeah, pretty, pretty simple guy.

Beautiful. Well, I'm hoping maybe you might be willing to introduce yourself and explain perhaps. why you think you were selected for this role. Obviously, we're going to get into some of the challenges the Conservative Party has faced recently and some of the turmoil. But I'm interested to know from your perspective, why were you selected as interim leader? Well, I think for a couple things.

Number one is we have a fairly young caucus in terms of political service, right? And I think probably at least 85% of our caucuses has never served before at a provincial level. So that was part of it. The other thing is, is that I really want to bring two big things. I want to really bring stability to our caucus and our party. And the second is, is I want to hand it off to the next person in better condition than when I found it.

So that was kind of my mantra when I was asked to take up this role and I was proud to have the support of caucus and looking forward to the days and months ahead as I get a front row seat to this leadership race. What does it mean to you to have the support of your colleagues to step into this role? Was that a surprise to you? What was your reaction when you were asked? It wasn't a surprise to me, but it's a pretty humbling moment. And, you know, if you don't have the support of your colleagues, you don't really have anything. No, it's very hard to navigate in that building unless you have the support of your colleagues. And we've got a great caucus.

We've got a diversified caucus, but it's a caucus that is, I use the word relentless with them. Like they're relentless. And, you know, a lot of them, like I said, are. new but the training wheels have come off in that caucus and they're you know they're thriving and I'm really proud to be a part of that and play a role in any way I can and it doesn't really matter about title to me I think we should all be playing that role regardless and pretty excited about what's what's ahead on November 26th party leader John Rustad had put forward a dare to Premier Eby to call in an election and I'm wondering obviously a lot has happened since then would you just

mind walking us through that chapter of the party and how we ended up where we are today? Sure. I, listen, I may come from a different perspective. I don't think it's, I'm not hearing British Columbians. I hear frustration. I hear anger. I don't hear anybody saying like, we need to go to the polls today. Now, that's going to be up to one person. That's going to be up to David Eby. If he decides to go to an early election, I and the party will be ready. I will, we will be. I will be. I know that. That's up to him if he wants to take, you know, if he wants to go against his word and call an early election. He'll make that decision. For us is, you know, we really thought it was imperative that we stabilized the caucus, right?

And obviously some of the stuff that we were going through was playing on the public. I don't think that serves anybody well. We are a government waiting and we need to show British Colombians that. So, you know, from that point on, obviously there's some challenges that played out in a very public way, but we're here now, and I want to say, you know, thank you to John for getting us to this point. You know, John was a guy, and I've known John for a long time. John was a guy that brought us from nothing to this and through nothing but sheer hard work. And we all owe him a debt of gratitude for that. And it really was him that acknowledged, you know, that it was time to move on and step forward and have a race that would invigorate

the party. And I'm excited to do that. to play that small role right now and, you know, and like I said, is see what comes next. I'd like to understand the issue further because on the one hand, in September, he goes through a leadership review where he gets 70%, which was a very positive result, 70% support to proceed. The polls had you guys in a pretty good position prior to some of this. And so obviously it's surprising any time a leader is removed. or steps down in light of those two pieces.

Usually those are the pieces we're looking at. And as we look federally, Pierre Pollyev's about to go through a similar challenge. And there wasn't anybody clear to replace him. And so I'm surprised that this ended up being the result. And it ended up being about 20 people who are really clear on their position internally, it sounds like, and maybe more. But those were 20 people willing to confirm their position. And so on the one hand, you could say, well, 20 out of 44,

that's a lot. On the other hand, you could say there was support in the polls and there was support in the leadership review for Mr. Rustap. So how do you square these two pieces that seem kind of separate and distinct? Sure. Great questions. And I'll hit them head on. Number one, we were 44.

We're now 39. Right? So we reduced by five seats because we had five people leave the party. Right. If you look at it from the perspective of, and John did acknowledge this. And it was, you know, I think it was, it showed kind of the character of when he actually spoke to this on Thursday, last Thursday, and acknowledged the challenges that we were going through, showed to the credit of John's character.

We were getting distracted by everything. We were getting distracted by some of the challenges that we were having inside of our caucus. We were getting distracted at some of the challenges that John was having with the party executive. We were getting distracted with the fact that, you know, we were, we were, we were struggling when it came to to raising money, which I'm happy to say in the last week. We've raised more money than, you know, than we have in some months and just in a matter of weeks. So all those things were plain. And if you look at British Columbians don't have a lot of

patients for that. Because when you're in my area and you're looking at 12 to 14 hour wait times at Surrey Memorial Hospital, you don't want to hear about the family dynamics that are going inside of a caucus. You want to hear about what you're going to do to make my life better, right? so for us it was playing out in a very public way there was obviously some frustrations and these happened in caucus but unfortunately ours was playing out in front of the province so i kind of that is what came to the boiling point and you know things kind of manifested from you know over the last month and i think john acknowledged that that this you know john said that he did not want to put this party through civil war and i i think that that speaks john it's not

about, this party is not about one person. It's not about John Rustad. It's not about Trevor Halford. It's not about the person who comes next. It's about the conservative party of BC and what we represent and how we, what we are going to do for the people of British Columbia, full stop. So I think for us is that, yeah, it was an incredibly awkward time. It was awkward for John. It was awkward for me. It was awkward for caucus. But I think we all realize that it's not about that one person. It's about that vision on how we're going forward. And I think John, John acknowledged that and, you know, on we go. I guess my only other piece on this note is I'm just curious when we think about how this

all played out. I think there were maybe some areas where it is worth reflecting on and figuring out if this is the best path forward. I'm obviously not sure who was putting forward the idea of the incapacitation piece. But I think that read very strange to a lot of everyday people. Is there any pieces that you guys are reflecting on on if issues are to arise again to make sure it doesn't play out in that way or that people aren't viewed in that type of like, because when I asked John about it, he kind of chuckled in one like that was, that was bullshit. Yeah. I don't know. So my big thing is, and I'll just be blunt about it, I never want to get to that position again. I don't because it's, we have more important things to do than

focus on that. And it is, and I'll say is that for me, I don't want to come to Victoria or go into my grocery store and have people say, you guys need to get your shit together. Okay. Because things are so bad right now in this province. Okay. Because, you know, I talked about health care housing. We have an extortion crisis out here. We, you know, so that, that is really what I'm bringing forward right now. And, you know, and again, John's going to be a part of that. And that speaks to John's character. But, you know, we were at a point where, you know, I think everybody realized that, you know, we were in going down a direction that wasn't helpful to where we wanted to go for the province. And, you know, we're here now. One of the things John also said was that there

are, and I just wanted to get your read on this, that there are a few different kind of groups. There's the BC liberals who became BC United, who are now BC Conservatives, there's that faction, there's a more left-leaning faction of caucus, and then there's a more right-leaning. Is that accurate from your perspective? Are those the kind of three groupings that you see from your perspective? No. And John, that's great that John has that perspective. I don't see that.

listen I see I like I I hate I hate this idea of left and right spectrums I think it's bullshit I like the idea of right and wrong okay and we have a caucus that views things right or wrong now how we get there yeah we have conversations and some some different input and things like that every member of that caucus has value it has principles that we all agree on on a platform that we all ran on and that we shared shared principles and visions. Every caucus has different dynamics of what people think and what people's backgrounds are, what their faith is. That's what makes the caucus great. So I don't think about these different camps that, you know, we may or may not. I don't see that. If John sees that, then, you know, he can explain that. I don't. I see people that just want to get down to work and fight for British Columbians and give them a better quality of life than what this NDP government's giving them today, full stop. What do you think the biggest source of discussion or disagreement is happening right now within

the caucus? Is it ideological? Is it strategic? Is it discipline? Is it personality? What do you think? Or do you think it's all come to a close now and everybody's on the same page? Yeah, I don't see it.

I think that honestly, and I'm not just saying this and I'll be direct about it. I think we closed that door a couple weeks ago. I think that it came kind of to a boiling point. And listen, everybody needs to be heard. And that's what caucus meetings are. You know, it's a point for everybody to get everything on the table. And then we kind of figure out where we're going. And I think that, you know, we're going to have a caucus of structure.

And we're going to allow everybody to, you know, to put their opinions on the table. And then we're going to see where we're going to go. And I think that's a great thing. And that's how previous caucuses have operated as well. So, you know, we're all adults, and we've all been sent there by our constituents to represent them. But I, this idea of, you know, fractured in different camps and things like that, it's not reality. The reality is, is that there's, you know, in the BC liberal caucuses that John served in for many years, there were different ideologies, different sectors of faith, and all that existed.

And it worked. And it can work for us. and it's the same things in the NDP caucus and the same things in the federal liberal caucus and the federal conservative caucus. And it's just a matter of making sure that everybody knows what the common goal is. Nobody in my caucus thinks that a 14-hour wait

for a child and emergency room is acceptable. We agree on that. Nobody in our caucus thinks that extortion should be allowed to continue in the way we're seen in Surrey. nobody in our caucus is thinking that what the challenges that we're seeing with public safety and decriminalization are working. So I think we're pretty unified on the important points. Thank you for answering these questions. I'm sure you want to start looking forward.

No, go for it. I don't mind. I honestly don't. The last question I have on this piece is when I spoke to John, one of his comments, was focused on what he could have done. I asked, like, how did we get here? Obviously, they're asking you to step down. You're saying no.

What were you thinking? How did you come to the decision to end up stepping down? And one of his comments was he had looked at the board of directors. And he had said, there were people on the board of directors that from the beginning wanted him to step down or be removed even after he received 70%. And so he said, my last option, my kind of nuclear option, was to kind of go after the board and replace the board and have a new board put in. But he said that would cause the civil war that you had described previously.

That would have become an absolute distraction. And he knew that if he went that path, the conservatives would take a huge hit. And that was not the path he wanted to set for the party. Is that landing? Do you see what he's saying there? Or is that also not accurate? I hear what he's saying. But at the end of the day, it's a board that I'm working with now.

I have great confidence in that board. I do. I have great confidence in the people that are at the party. I have great confidence in the people of the board. I have great confidence in the members of this party. I have great confidence in the caucus. So everybody's going to have different perspectives. That's mine.

So I've had zero challenges with this board, and I look forward to working with them. They're going to have a lot on their plate as we go to, you know, as we go into leadership here in the new year, and as we get election ready, and they have my full support. I know I have theirs. And, you know, and John's entitled to that opinion and perspective. full fully is i'm entitled to mine and you know but the end of the day just because we have these differing thoughts john and i are still going to be able to work together i know i know we'll be able to do that because i know john rost had the man but i can tell you that board has my full

support and i have full confidence in them i think that's a great point and you have not known john for a long time so just as a leader as you described at the beginning he takes this party from nothing. Nobody really believes he's going to be able to do anything with it. And he ends up pulling off like a major feat, regardless of whether or not you agree with him or you agree with the party. It was an amazing thing. What are your reflections on his leadership over this year and what the Conservative Party has become since the last election? Well, I think you look at John and John's been in politics, been in that building since 2005, right? He started with the BC Liberals. He's been under two premiers and multiple leaders.

there. And so he's got experience in that house that nobody has in terms of, you know, what he's done with the BC Liberals when he was, you know, minister of indigenous relations for quite a while and, you know, the amount of agreements that he signed in the work that he did with that, you know, so I think that that's a great opportunity. I think he's the only person. I know there's one other. Teresa did serve as a minister, but, you know, John served as a minister under the BC Liberals for quite a few years, right? So for me, I, I think that that's great experience that he can bring into the side of that caucus, and I look forward to him, you know, keeping to provide that mentorship.

John, you know, there's a lot of, you know, a lot of people that are going to look to John, you know, in terms of guidance as we go forward in the spring session, and I know he'll be there to do that. You know him personally, far better than I do. Is there any, like, sorrow for, as you described, John the man, because all of you are just human beings doing this work, right? We can start to see you as political actors and another. certainly a factor of who you are, but you're human beings and to, he's been put in this

situation somewhat unceremoniously. Is there any sorrow for how this all played out with him? I, you know what? I don't think John's asking for that. I think that this was a difficult spot for everybody to be in for him, for his wife, Kim, you know, for the people that are around him, also for the people, whether John agrees with them or not, but for the board, you know, for the executive director, for the president, the people that have put their lives. into this party as well. Nobody wanted to see, kind of see us get to this point. But, you know, I also believe that everything is an opportunity. And I believe that we have an opportunity now going forward. But yeah, I think that, you know, in the days and weeks and months ahead, John's going to,

he's indicated, he's really going to step up into his role. And I look forward to seeing them do that. Why did you agree to take on this role? You knew it was going to be, I'm sure, turbulent? Why did you take on this role? Oh man, I never turned down the challenge. And I don't think it's going to be turbulent. I think it's going to be, it's going to be great. I really do. I think, like I said, we have a caucus that is relentless. And we have great people in that caucus that are focused on holding this government to account every single day. And that's what really unifies us. I think I can provide some value here at this point in terms of the structure, the stability. I don't know if I would call myself a veteran being elected in 2020.

But I guess in that room, I am. And I've really enjoyed that role. And like I said, you don't need a leadership title to lead. You don't. And I've really enjoyed being able to work with our caucus members with staff and, you know, help them prepare, whether it's for question period, whether it's committee debate or, you know, media, whatever it is. I and a few others that have been there before have kind of had a really open door policy to

help our colleagues. And I'll continue that work with a different job pedal. albeit for you know for probably a short amount of time you've described yourself as a caretaker leader what does that look like i okay great question and so for me i do not i'll be very direct on this i do not want to tie the hands of whoever's coming in after me so if people are looking for you know bold policy initiatives and things like that they're not going to get it with me albeit unless unless there's a snap election called and then we will put forward a platform that we will probably stand behind. But right now, we are going to see an

exchange of ideas on the stage and members are going to agree with them and they're not going to agree with them, but they're going to decide, we are about to embark on a very exciting, I call it a job interview. And every member is going to have a seat on that panel of who they want to accept at the end of the day. And I think that's awesome. And so for me, you know, what I want to do is make sure, like I said, at the beginning of this conversation, I want to hand that office off in better condition than when I found it. And that does not mean you're going to see me make these bold policy commitments that are going to tie the hands of whoever's coming next and they may disagree. So, you know, for, and I, and the caucus fully understands that and they

support that. So, you know, as so I want to make sure that, you know, we're not, you know, that we're, we're holding this government into account, but we are not, I'm not going to be setting the vision of this party going forward. So it's a bit of a weird dance to do, but I think I can do it. You have a photo of Ronald Reagan on the wall behind you. What makes him an inspirational political figure

from your perspective? So I got a photo of Ronald Reagan behind me, and I've also got a photo of JFK over there. If you zoom in, you can see it. And I, those two presidents to me always stood out. And I got in politics at a very early age

because of my grandparents. parents. And when I started following politics, my grandfather was my biggest inspiration. I love my grandfather, Walter Mercer. And he was, I never thought that I always wondered, so why is my grandfather prime minister? Because he's the smartest guy, and this is at the age of five. But Ronald Reagan was on TV all the time. Right. And Ronald Reagan, I guess I kind of viewed him as my grandfather as well because he looked like my grandfather he acted like my grandfather spoke like my grandfather and so i kind of had this like draw towards that because i kind of thought okay well you know when i saw him on tv i said that reminds me of my baba and so i've always had that kind of

infinity and uh and with jfk if anybody ever gets the chance and i wish we did a lot more of this in canada go to a presidential library it is one of the best experiences you can have. And I've been to both the Ronald Reagan and the JFK library. They are phenomenal. So I took my boys down a number of years ago to the JFK library and it was quite a sight. So yeah, I keep those those two above me because, you know, I look at it in a reflection, quite honest. And then there's a, there's a photo of my grandpa just underneath because that is my, that is my real inspiration. I love that. I'm curious. Why aren't you? seeking a leadership role?

Good question. I want to dedicate most of my time to fantasy football next year, so I can't do both. But no, honestly, I've thought about it a lot, and I think this is the best way I can serve. And people are asking me that more and more, and maybe they'll ask me that less and less if I screw up along the way here. But I really think that we're going to have some great people step forward. I do. And I'm excited about that.

And, you know, this is a way I can serve. I had my daughter over in Victoria with me the other day. So it was important for me. She's 11 years old. And I wanted her to see that when I'm not home, that she knows what I'm doing. Right. So she can see me and say, okay, that's where dad is. That's what dad's doing.

That's the sacrifice that dad's making. And, you know, when she came and witnessed kind of what I'm doing, she said, dad, like, why aren't you doing this? Right. And it was a hard question to answer because she kind of challenged me on that. and she was very direct and very blunt and I just said listen I think this is the best way that I can serve right now and you know there may be a different time in the future where I can I can I can maybe step into this role you know but for me right now I really believe that

this is this is my time to serve I'm wondering about the different parties that have kind of arisen. There was the BC Liberals, to BC United, to the BC conservatives. And there's been a bit of a journey. When I interviewed Kevin Falcon versus John Rustat in 2024, one of the stark differences that I spoke with John about was that Kevin Falcon had made a comment along the lines of that NDP have good ideas, but they don't implement them well. And I don't think he meant that about all their ideas, but he broadly said they have good ideas, they just don't implement them well. And John fiercely rejected that idea. Is there, How do you look at the NDP?

Are most of their ideas bad? Is the conservative position that they're just on the completely wrong tracker? Is there tinkering with some of these policy initiatives that could be done? Broadly speaking, I know you don't want to get into the details of the policy and be the policy guy. But broadly speaking, what's the conservative position? Listen, if somebody has a good idea, I'm happy to support it or a minimum plagiarize it. But at the end of the day, I'm not seeing a lot of good ideas under the NEP government. there are some things that, yeah, definitely, you know, they campaigned on involuntary care and

voluntary treatment. I support that. Problem is, they're not doing it, right? David E.B. said the other week, and I agree with them that decriminalization has been an absolute failure. Crickets after that. I agree with this statement. I don't agree with the fact that he's now sat on his hands two months after he made that announcement. For us, I think it's important that you say what you mean and you do what you say and you're going to make mistakes along the way and you've got to own that

but the worst thing that you can do in politics and I've just served in opposition but the worst thing that you can do that this government continues to do is that you over promise and under deliver and if you do that eventually it catches

up with you and I think it's caught up with them in spades at this moment in time I really do because people People are saying, you've promised us A, B, and C, and you failed on A, B, and C, right? You promised us family doctors, I can't access a family doctor. You promised that our emergency rooms would not shut down, they're shutting down. You promised that we wouldn't have these consequences we are seeing with Trip, but we're seeing those play out in the courts.

You've promised that you're going to handle crime in Surrey, it's getting worse. You promised us about the housing crisis. it's getting worse. So you look at all these things and you're saying, okay, what and not to be, you know, a Debbie Downer here, but in 2025, what got better? In 2026, what will get better? And it's our job. And this is why, you know, you and I talked about for the last 20 minutes, some of the drama that unfolded here. And this is why people don't have patience for it. And people were coming up to me and saying, I don't have patience for this because I need you to show me that you are a government waiting. That is what we have to do. That is our primary focus.

Okay. People want change. I know they want change. They're hungry for it. Everywhere I go, people are saying, whether I was leader, before I was leader, people are saying, we need change. And we're going to give them that change. And I'm going to be right there to support that. But we have to, you know, at the end of the day, we have to make sure we are doing things that are going to actually make lives better for British Columbia. And I think we can do that. I think you've heard some speculation about an early election. If an early election is called in January of February, what is your campaign plan?

Well, my campaign plan will be to sit down with my kids and explain why they won't see me for about 30 days. And, you know, we'll be ready to go. And, you know, I think we've had a platform in the past that British Colombians were excited about obviously that that'll be a key component there'll be some changes to that but you know we will be ready and i have those that have known me know that i've never turned down a fight lost some one some though too but i will say this is that you know if they're going to call an election in the next two months then i've i've been i've been underestimated my entire life

i've been the underdog my entire life so if that's what david eb wants to to do, then that's on him. But if he thinks that we won't be ready, that I won't be ready, he will be sorely mistaken. I love an underdog story. Would you mind sharing a little bit more about how you've been underestimated? Yeah, sure. It's funny because, you know, I look at it this way. Like my kids, my three kids are doing great at school, right?

They're doing great at sports. You know, they are the great kids. and I look at them, I'm like, that was not me. You know, when I started off, you know, I remember from day one, smallest kid ever. Like I was, you know, when I was in, when I was in grade eight, people thought I was like Dugie Hauser because they're saying like I looked like I should have been in grade two. But I was playing competitive sports and I was just getting, you know, but for me, I always had that chip on my shoulder. and sometimes it did not serve me well. But I always had that chip on my shoulder that I had to prove myself

that I had to kind of come across bigger than I was because I was not big in stature. I was incredibly small to the point where my parents actually took me in to get my feet in my hands measured because I wasn't growing. And, you know, I was playing hockey. I was playing football. And I was just, you know, I was the same. smallest kid always out there but I wouldn't stop right and I would I would go my dad and my mom

were so worried because every time I would go for the biggest kid out there and my dad would say what are you doing like I remember one time I this this kid looked I think he we were playing I was probably about 11 years old this kid looked like he drove to the game but I actually you know he said something and then I took a run at them and my parents were just like and I got ragdolled but my parents were like, what are you doing? Like, you're going to get killed. And for me, I, again, I always felt like I needed to prove myself. I've tempered that down, but I've always had that edge.

I don't think that edge is left. I think it's kind of, it's been a little bit, you know, kind of grinded down a little bit. But I've always had that. I wasn't, you know, I wasn't a great student by any stretch, right? And I worked my way up. and, you know, I went to community college, and then I went to Trinity Western and worked hard for my degree. You know, I had probably never not gone without a paycheck since I was eight years old. I had delivery route for the P-Sarch-Schnews out here, and I've had a job ever since.

And, you know, I look at things where, you know, for me, when I first came in, I started in that building, the legislative building I came in in 2005. My first job was assistant legislative assistant. I had the word assistant twice in my title. So you can imagine the power that I had with that. I was the person that was getting the MLA coffee, I was getting coffee for that person. So it was glamorous stuff, but I worked my way up to be the lead on issues management

for the premier of the province. So I just, I guess I talked about being relentless before with our caucus, and I think I kind of, I emboldened that. But yeah, nothing has ever really come easy to me. and I sometimes take the hard way, much to the chagrin of the people around me, but maybe that's helped. I loved those P-Sarch mugs that they used to do. I really enjoyed those.

I got that once for delivering the papers. So it was, and the P-Sarch news out here is like the staple of everybody reads it. So I'm a big fan of what they do. Absolutely. What does the leadership process look like moving forward from your perspective? if an election isn't cold. Yeah, so stay tuned, and I mean that. It's going to be rolling out, I think, in the new year very, very shortly.

I know some of the members of Leok, which is the Leadership Election Organizing Committee, they're going to be announced soon. I'll share with you that Claire Rattay is going to serve on Leocke from our caucus. Claire is phenomenal. I think Claire is a name that British Colombians are going to hear more and more about every single day, which I think is a great thing. so that's going to be coming I think we're going to have a great a great leadership process with great candidates some of them have already indicated they're going to run for me I'm not going to be involved in setting the rules or the regulations or anything like that I'm going to be Switzerland on this and I'm really looking forward to seeing that but I expect that in early January you will see a rollout of how this race is going to unfold I'm very excited to hear more about that when you It's going to be tough to push you on some of these questions because you're Mr. Switzerland.

But your reaction when you saw Aaron Gunn looking at the idea of running. Great. Aaron's a great guy. You know, I haven't had a chance. I've gotten to know Aaron a lot more in the last probably year. And before that, I think we kind of really didn't know each other. Aaron's got a passion for British Columbia that is critical, especially, you know, the working class of BC. and he's got Aaron can deliver a message like nobody else and you know I'm very proud of the journey

that he's been on the work that he's doing in Ottawa but the work that he's been doing in BC and so Aaron's been a huge part of this party and somebody that I think at the beginning was was somewhat misunderstood even by me and I really appreciated getting to know Aaron and developing a friendship with him and because the guy he gives a shit he really does he he's a guy he's a guy that'll fight for you and he'll fight on the issues but you know I think we need more people that aren't afraid and not everybody's going to agree with what Aaron says but at least you know where Aaron stands and I think that's what people want to see and not only politicians but just everyday people is that you know where Aaron is and you know what he stands for and I I actually

really do appreciate that Darrell Jones is mr. Avon Foods what was your reaction to that I think Darrell lives in my riding so I actually see Darrell sometimes when I go in, Ceylon Foods is like right across the street for me and I go in there and I would see Daryl and his wife once in a while shopping in there. Dail's a great guy. I don't know him well, but, you know, if he wants to be a part of this, then albeit I think that's great. So Daryl's a really good guy and, you know, if he's going to do this, I look forward to getting to know him. And this might be breaking news for you. But when I spoke to Mr. Rustad, one of my questions for him was, are you going to put your name back in that hat? And he did not rule it out.

And I'll just say, the story arc of taking over the conservative party, bringing it to where it was, being taken out, and then trying to come back in, that's a wild story. Sure. Great. If that's something John's going to do, then all the power to them. I'm also curious you've heard about what's going on with 1B.C. and all of the debacle they've been facing. What's your general reaction to them going out on their own thing and kind of where they are today? Yeah, I'm not going to take the easy way out on this, but I'm not really paying attention to it. I'm not for a couple of reasons.

One is I'm focused on the 39 people that are in my caucus room right now. That is my number one priority. So they're going to do what they're going to do. And, you know, and, you know, you never like to see anything, you know, kind of, you know, people, you know, people kind of suffering online or, you know, having these disagreements. that'll play out the way it is, you know, no matter what. So we'll just have to see kind of how things unfold there. But for me, the priority is the 39 people in our caucus room right now. Is there a path back for those individuals who have left to return?

Yeah, I'm not sure. Again, like we've had five people leave, you know, all under different circumstances. And those are, you know, those aren't going to be any decisions made by me as as leader, as interim leader. that'll be done in conjunction with caucus, in some cases, with the new leaders. So, you know, I'm not going to make any commitments there. I think there would be, you know, there's obviously some challenges with that. So we'll have to see how that unfolds. My belief, and you can correct me if you disagree, is that when the Conservative Party

was coming and growing in the last election, there wasn't an incredibly strong vetting process for all of the candidates. Not saying that you don't have great people on there, but that that, process was rushed as a consequence in part by the election and the change is happening within the BC United Party. And so you have a very large tent. It wasn't like ideologically very strict because you were running so many new people for the first time. And so you have, in my opinion, a very large tent of people with all different perspectives. That happens with all parties. But you have a lot of people in a big tent, but also with the experience

you've described that haven't formed government, that haven't had 20 years of experience. You have a very new leadership. And so I'm just wondering when you think about that large tent, is there room for people with those more far-reaching? Do you see the tent growing wider to encourage all people? Or do you try and refine what conservatism is and narrow that definition a bit? Just what are your general thoughts on the path forward? Because they would say that conservatives weren't true conservatives and one BC went on to become

more conservative. and so I'm just trying to think through how large that tent is. I'm not asking you this question, but I ask a lot. I asked this the other last night at dinner. What the hell is a true conservative? Like, what is a true liberal? What is a true NDP? What is that?

Like this purity test, I can't stand. I really can't. I know what I stand for and I know what our caucus stands for. I can tell you that you will not find the group that's in that room right now. Every single day they're fighting for their country. constituents. The other thing, too, to keep in mind is that 99% of British Colombians walking the streets today do not have a party membership in their wallet. They don't. They don't. We always have to, I have to remind myself with that a lot.

They don't, and they don't see things that way. Again, you know, I think the platform that we ran on, the platform that will run on the next election, whenever that may be, will represent strong values that I think conservatives will definitely be aligned with. And I think others will be aligned with as well because, you know, at the end of the day, you don't, it doesn't matter what your party membership is. Do you think it's okay to have a 14-hour wait time when you take your child to emergency? I don't. It's on a left or right spectrum thing. It's just access to health care thing. I mean, I can keep going down the list on that, right? So, you know, for me, you know, we're not going to compromise on our values. Those aren't negotiable. But we're going to put

forward, I think, a very, very strong vision that's going to appeal to a lot of British Colombians and I'm excited about that. You've spoken about this briefly. What are your thoughts on Premier David Eby? How much time do we have? Listen, I think he's tired

and I think he's out of ideas and I think that he is overpromised and underdelivered on almost every single thing. And I think that one of the struggles is like when I first came in John Horgan was Premier. Now, whether you

agreed or disagreed with John Horgan, he was a leader. He was a leader. David E.B.'s not. And you can see that. You can see that in the house. You can see that outside of the house. He's not a leader. And I think that's what British Columbians are looking for. And that's what we're going to give them when we go through this leadership process. But the challenge is, is that everything is somebody else's fault, right? Whether it's the pipeline discussion he got left that of. That's Ottawa's fault. That's Alberta's fault. It's not my fault that I got left out and now sitting at the kids table. When you look at some of the challenges we are seeing on the municipal front, the fact that he is now taken away so much authority from municipal

governments that we just had 16 mayors come out and challenge him, somebody else's fall, right? I, you look at, I have, I, I went to the menorah lighting on Sunday in Vancouver and the premier got up and spoke. It was the first time that I've ever been at an event where the premier was openly heckled by people and shouted down. And for good reason. And I think that, you know, part of the challenges is that, you know, if you look at all the things that we've gone through, you look at somebody like Selena Robinson, who I think is an absolute pillar in the Jewish community. And actually, she's done some tremendous work in this province, both at the municipal and the provincial level. She called David E.B.O. And she's called him out numerous times for his leadership and his failure of leadership. And for me, that played out in spades last Sunday. And I think for him is that he is still not found, he has still not come into the role as Premier, even though he's been there for a number of years.

And that scares me because we all need him to succeed. But he's not. And in fact, we're failing on every single metric we have in BC. What file has gotten better? So, you know, I think the Premier is desperate at this point to hold on to power. And we've seen that. And, you know, whether or not he's going to call an early election is up to him. He'll do what's best for him.

We'll do what's best for British Columbians. That's the difference between us and him. At the core, I believe a healthy democracy requires a strong government and a strong opposition. Would you mind defining that from your perspective? What does a strong government look like and a strong opposition? Well, a strong government, I believe, is at least getting something, right? So at least one file needs to be going good if you're going to be a strong government. government. This is a government that's just trying to survive the day. And I think part of it is

is because they've only got a one-seat majority. I think the other part it is because they're tired and they're out of ideas. So we don't have a strong government. There's nothing here where I would tell you that we have a strong government anyway. There's no file that I would say they're thriving on. A strong opposition is exactly what you're going to see of us going forward. We are going to hold this government to account every single day. A strong opposition is a guy like Brennan Day in the Comox Valley that goes out and fights for a little girl who's terminally ill that had her medication taken away. That's a strong opposition.

A strong opposition is somebody that has Jody Tour in it, who actually got the first private members bill passed for pre and postnatal care for mental health supports. That's a strong opposition. So we are going to amp that up and we're doing that now. You look at what Bruce Bamman and our MLAs and the Fraser Valley are doing. regarding these floods and holding them accountable, we're going to keep going. And, you know, British Colombians are going to be hearing a lot from us going forward.

As you may know, I'm a First Nations chief, so I'd be very interested in what your thoughts were on the Cowichin decision and property rights. Well, I think property rights are paramount, and they're a cornerstone of our economy, and they're in jeopardy right now. And it's not an us versus First Nations thing at all. that's what I get concerned about. The fact is, is that we now have chaos going on because of recent court decisions, which is very unfortunate, but we need to rectify those. And I have had the pleasure of working with and serving with indigenous leaders. And one is my seatmate when I

first got elected was Ellis Ross, who's a great guy, great friend, and I talked to him often. I saw him in Ottawa last week, and I'll see him again in the weeks ahead here. And he's He's been a real good kind of mentor on this file that, you know, for me, I'm kind of, I'm learning more about each and every day. The other one is Alia Warbus and what she brings to the file and the credibility she brings and the passion she has for it. I have, I think the challenge that we've got right now is that whether it's the Interpretation Act or DRIPA, it's being somewhat weaponized in our courtrooms. And whether that was the intent or not, I don't think it was but that's the consequence and we have to figure out how to deal with that now i've said

full on that i think we need a repeal of drippa and the premier disagrees with that the premier believes that we need an amendment or whatever at the time that he finds convenience in the spring i actually wanted to reconvene the house and do a full repeal of drippa he he chose not to do that Allie Warbust stood beside me on that and called for that as well. But for us, I believe that it's never the wrong time to do the right thing. But I actually believe the last couple months have not been good for reconciliation. I believe in reconciliation. I think most British Colombians do.

I think it's important. But right now, what we're seeing is we're seeing fear. And I don't think that's helping at all. I guess the only piece I would add is it also just feels like we need First Nations leader. to come forward and stand alongside whatever the government of the day is or the opposition and have these conversations because my big takeaway from all of this is British Colombians were left out of these conversations about reconciliation. They were left out of what they thought the path forward might look like.

And then the last most important piece to me is we don't have any milestones or benchmarkers to know if we're closer to reconciling or not. My personal position is we do need to have a clear layout of, what are the goals? How are we achieving them? And when can we close the book on some of these pieces so that we can move forward together and so that we can reconcile and all come back together and be proud British Columbians? Absolutely. You said it better than ever. I could have. How does the unmarked Graves story factor into some of this? I think it's been a topic that is arisen with the Lindsay Shepherd incident and her being let go. It's arisen with Dallas Brody

choosing to leave. It does still feel like it is a political wildfire and an issue that isn't going away. We just had new documents released by black locks showing that excavation was in the application and that was a stated piece and that the government is looking at trying to control how much information is released. It's an important political topic. How are you going to navigate this complicated issue? Yeah, with transparency and respect. Those are the paramount things of a lot of transparency and respect and I think that that's that's going to be the cornerstone of it finally what does conservatism mean to you what what is that enacted what is that coming to life I think it's rooted on principles I think the fact is I don't believe in big government

I believe in in people having the right to stay what they what they feel I believe that it's allowing people to, you know, people to embrace who they are. I believe that it's a thriving private sector. I believe that it's the ability to go out there and be rewarded. People should not be punished for having success. Was at a dinner last night? People thought, you know, people think the more successful they are, the more they are punished by this government. I don't believe in that. I think a thriving public, a thriving private sector actually allows us to provide more public services. So, you know, that's, that's really what I believe in. I believe in, you know, making sure that parents have rights when it comes to their children. I believe that it's making

sure that, you know, we are, you know, we are transparent with our public tax dollars and where they're going. We're not just rewarding friends and insiders as a premier. I believe that it's making sure that, you know, that we have accessible health care. And right now we don't. We absolutely don't. So those are kind of the things that I believe in. You've spoken a little bit about your personal background, and I know you don't want this to focus on the man, but what do you hope your legacy is? Because from what I see, you're trying to bring a steady hand during what was a tumultuous time. What do you hope your legacy is? That I gave a shit, that I cared, that I'm going to make mistakes, and I want to be held accountable for those mistakes.

But, again, I want to leave this office in better condition than when I found it. But you don't have to hold this office to make a change. Like, I really do believe that if you get up and you fight every day for that underdog, good things will happen. And that's exactly what I'm going to be focused on doing. I, you know, I want to work with people and I want to get things done. And you don't, you can do that in opposition. And I kind of gave you some of the examples on that.

But, you know, people are hurting right now and they're looking at us to help them. And that's exactly what I'm intending on doing. What is your message to British Columbians? We're ready. We're ready. And we are ready to take out this government that has wreaked havoc on British Columbia over the last number of years. Premier Eby is tired. He's out of ideas.

And right now, Burris Colombians are paying the price for it. We are ready to go. And I'm excited about what lies ahead. And I'm excited to seeing how this leadership race is going to unfold. And mark my words, this is government. waiting. Trevor, thank you so much for being willing to do this. I'm very excited to get this message out.

How can people follow your work, connect with the party, and learn more? You know, obviously on social media, which I am not a social media wizard at all, but just reach out and I'm accessible. I know my team's accessible as well. So if you need us, reach us and we'll be there. Thank you again for being willing to do this. It was enlightening. I'm very interested to see how this all plays out.

Thank you for being willing to take the time to have this conversation. And I look forward to more conversations as the politics starts to ramp up closer to an election. Thanks, sir. Appreciate it. Thank you.