Nuanced. - 26. Eddie Gardner: Indigenous Elder & Council Member for Skwah First Nation

Episode Date: July 12, 2021

“T’it’elem Spath”, Eddie Gardner is a  Stó:lō Elder from the Skwah First Nation, an elder-in-residence with University of the Fraser Valley, a defender of Wild Salmon, knowledge keeper, and protector of the Halq’eméylem language.Eddie Gardner graduated from University of Prince Edward Island with a Bachelor of Arts in 1972.   He has worked for over 10 years to ensure Wild Salmon do not go extinct. As well, he has worked with other Indigenous leaders to try to keep the Halq’eméylem language alive and ensure it is practiced. Mr. Gardner further works to ensure Sweat Lodge ceremonies are continued in the Fraser Valley.In this conversation, Eddie Gardner and Aaron discuss Indigenous music, Indigenous culture, the environment, wild salmon, spirituality, elders, meaning and so much more!Send us a textSupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

Eddie Gardner, it is an absolute pleasure to sit down with you because you make a gigantic impact in our community, but you do it so quietly, and I've heard so many good things about you through the community as a native court worker, and I really think hearing from people like yourself is really important, especially in times like these, but all the time. And so I'm hoping you can do a brief introduction, and perhaps we could start with the drum. Sure. pleasure. I got this drum, Darren Charlie from Sjahelas, he made this drum and he knew that I was defending wild salmon and he wanted to sell it for $1,200, but he sold it to me for $550. Wow. Yeah, so it's a beautiful. It is.

Beautiful drum. So I'll sing, I'll sing the... Sing the salmon song to honor our salmon. We consider our relatives Ousia. Oh, hey, oh, hey, oh, oh, hey, oh, oh, hey. Oh, hey, oh, hey. Ah, hey. Ah, hey, ah, hey.

Oh, hey. Oh, oh, oh, hey. Oh, oh, oh, hey. Oh, hey. Oh, hey, that was beautiful. Can you tell us what the meaning behind that is? Yeah, the drums are the heartbeat of our nation. And when we sing with our drums, we sing with our hearts and we merge our hearts

with the heartbeat of our Mother Earth. And we always say that when we sing those sacred songs, the ancestors, they come and they be with us to support and oversee what we're doing. And if we open our minds and our hearts to them, then they provide us with the guidance that we need, you know, to carry on whatever we're doing. So this song is the Salmon Song, and this song, and this song comes from the Guterres family, actually. and Tilly Guteris' grandfather was out fishing

and the salmon just weren't coming and so he prayed and the spirits came to him and told him that he was going to get a song and so he did and he sang that song he sang that song until the salmon did come and because the spirits wanted him to acknowledge the salmon as a relative to acknowledge the salmon as a special gift from our Chahashwili, our sacred life spirit.

So when the salmon did come, he had enough for his family and they were able to benefit from, this beautiful gift, this beautiful relative of ours, we call our ha-ha-hastakwe, our secret salmon. Oh, wow. So is that how all songs are made through one person or through a family? Yeah, songs come from our ancestors. And whenever I sang songs back east when I was growing up, I sang other people's songs. And they told me the meaning of them because some of them were songs that honored the water, spirits,

honored Mother Earth, honored life around them. And I really took to the songs as a young person. I was just drawn, you know, to the drums. And when I came back home, I was taken under Kelsey Charlie's wing, and he taught me all about our traditional ways here of connecting with the land and our ancestors. And so I did go to the water in the wintertime and went to the Longhouse and picked up all the teachings. And so one day when I went to the water, I started to have songs come to me, you know. And I got an Eagle Vision song, a four-direction song, a healing song.

So several songs came to me. One was a Raven song. And songs are so powerful when we really connect, you know, with our what we call our relatives in a natural world. We have what is called our tree of light, you know, our cedar tree. So I live in the unseeded territory of the squat people. It's off reserve, but I'm still living on the unseated territory of our people. And Little Mountain is our territory, part of our territory. So I go up to a little mountain and I spend time with the cedar trees up there.

and I seek, I just meditate and wait for messages that come, you know, from the cedar tree. And Krapay was a human being in the time of Shokoyam. And he was a very kind and generous man. And he led such an exemplary good life, you know, being kind and generous to everybody. And Kachal's our great transformer when they saw him living in such a good life like that. They told him, it's your time to go to the spirit world.

A cedar tree will grow where you're laid. And so that's what happened. And in our history, the cedar trees grew like giants in the sky and they provided our people with so many good things. The wood was provided to us from the cedar tree to build our lawn houses to make our canoes and canoe paddles. The roots were made to make our baskets, and the bark was made to create beautiful clothes,

like our cedar hats and headbands and our women wore cedar skirts. We had, we made mats out of cedar. And so many things, rope, so many things were made from our cedar that it was recognized as the spirit, the true spirit, the true shulili of Chappay. And that's generosity. So we even use cedar tree. a cedar tree to cleanse and renew ourselves.

And that's really important, you know, because sometimes we need to re-center ourselves and balance ourselves. When we're out of balance, when we're thrown off course about who we need to be. So cedar tree, the cedar branches are like the hands of Chappay, and they cleanse away and take away all the things that aren't helpful to us in our ceremonies. So cedar is used ceremonially as well. So when I went to the mountain and offered salmon, you know, to the cedar trees, offered tobacco and showed my respect and had really good thoughts about the cedar tree

and what it represents to us and acknowledged our ancestor who is in all the cedar trees. I got a song, you know, after, yeah. So that was, that's a huge significance to us, just the, you know, the tree of life of our people. And I'm so delighted and happy that we have that connection. and nobody else has that connection

except the stall of people I agree yeah I want to know more about the music how long does it take for you to learn someone's song well it does take some discipline

it does take some some real concentration on picking up the songs if a song does come to you then it's easier. You know, we can get some songs in the sweatlodge, we can get songs going to the water,

we can get songs in our dreams. And those songs that come to us are easier than to pick up other people's songs, at least for myself anyways. I know some others like Kelsey Charlie and some of the other singers, they're very powerful singers and drummers

and they're gifted in a special way so it's a little different for everybody but if you have a good mind and a good heart and you want to learn songs then you take your own time you know to learn them but it's really important to learn

the history of the songs and to know significance and when you sing those songs then you put your heart into it you put your you put your your soul your spirit into it and and that's the vibration that's the energy that's the power that of love and respect and harmony that goes out into the world and and brings benefit to wherever it's needed because we have songs you know for our people who are suffering from a loss or we have songs to celebrate, you know, a wedding. We have songs to honor, you know, our, our children.

Songs to honor, you know, the salmon. And so there's, there are so many different songs that we have. And we're rich that way. We're really rich that way. And when we, wherever we go across Turtle Island, you know, people are, our Wilmaq people, the indigenous people, we always have a their drums and their rattles and their flutes, you know, that are used, you know, to reconnect with Khakhashwali, Sacred Life Spirit, Mother Earth, Father Sky, our ancestors, and all our relatives in the natural world. That's our connection, you know, to what has become more known now as Turtle Island. Yeah.

I think you're right about that there. a depth to it that doesn't seem to exist in Western culture because a lot of popular music today doesn't have much of any meaning at all in comparison to honoring and respecting and giving thanks and connecting. So is there other songs you can share with us and a little bit of the meaning? Because I think that that's something that a lot of people miss out on is what the meaning is to the drumming and what the meaning is to the song. Yeah, when I went to the water, the first song that came to me was the four-direction songs. There's lots of four-direction songs, but each direction carries a special message, teaching.

And so when we face the Four Directions and sing the song to the Four Directions, what it means is that we're honoring the guidance and the teachings that come from those directions. In the East, we honor the direction of new beginnings, the direction of truth, the direction of healing our minds so that we can take away all the lies that we've been told

and clear all those things away so that we can be clear in our minds and use that inner wisdom and open ourselves to the illumination of our Khakhashuli to bless us and to

make sure that We have, we center ourselves and go in the direction that we need at whatever stage in life that we're at. And the south is the direction of growth. It's the direction of our young people who need to take up a quest to find out what their gift and their gift and their talent and how to use the special nature that, that they have so that they can continue to grow and expand and leave childhood, some of the childhood things they don't need anymore and start taking those first steps towards maturity and develop a trust in themselves and then acknowledge, you know, what true love really means, you know? It means reconnecting, it means connecting truly with divine love, divine love that is unconditional,

divine love that teaches us to love ourselves, to appreciate ourselves, to know that we're worthy, and then we can share that and open ourselves to develop in good relationships with others. And then the West is the direction of responsibility and adulthood. We thank the bear spirit, we thank for teaching us about strength and about being resourceful and about being able, you know, to, as humans, to know, to know, have a greater sense of what is sacred around us and to be able to be responsible for ourselves, be responsible for the young ones that are coming from behind. be responsible and take good care of the elders, many who are not able to take care of themselves as they once did, right? So we honor, we truly honor our elders, and we teach young people how to honor the young ones as well at that stage. And then we acknowledge that at that stage in our life, the adult stage, where we've really experienced life enough so that we can

know and learn from our mistakes. We've been humbled, you know, and learn from all those mistakes, and that we have enough experience to guide us further into our life. And at that stage of life, we were able to go within a lot more in reverence, you know, to everyone and everything around us. And that's where we get our strength, you know, to be humble and to know that we're never going to stop learning. And then we go to the elder stage. And the elders, the teaching from the north is the teaching of generosity. You know, we need to learn to be generous, you know, with what we've experienced through our life. We've lived a long good life.

We've learned a lot. And so it's important to pass on to the next generation, you know, what we've inherited from our, our lineage, our great lineage into the past and because we carried the values, because we carried the, you know, the strong belief systems and spiritual practices, we can teach the young ones that are coming from behind so that they can learn those lessons in a way that they won't have to suffer so much because there's, there's lessons that we can pick up, you know, by the wisdom of the elders, and then there's the lessons we get through the hard knocks.

So the elders are kind to try to guide us and steer us away from some of the pitfalls that we have sometimes. So, yeah, so those songs are to honor those four directions. That's so beautiful. And I think one part that you just spoke about, about responsibility and young people, It feels, from my perspective, that that message is really, really missing. I know a lot of peers are all about what makes them happy, what makes them smile, what new iPhone there is, what new laptop, what new technology is available, new Tesla, and this idea of responsibility of honoring things, of having humility, I think is something that, from what I'm seeing, even through other religions, indigenous culture and what you're saying is one of the only belief systems that's really pushing young people. to take up a mantle of responsibility and to play a role in the community.

Can you elaborate a little bit on that more? What does it look like to mature and to develop and to take on that responsibility? Well, our people have different ceremonies and different practices that help our young people. grow in a way that that teaches them about their soul purpose. We all have, we all come here for a reason. And human beings yearn to find the answers to these questions, these fundamental questions in our lives, you know, where did we come from? You know, why are we here? Where are we going? You know, some of those are great mysteries that human beings have pondered over, you know, for every sense that humans

came to this world. And so our teachings are to, to the young ones, are to take them out, you know, into a vision quest. And that's where they spend four days and four nights without drinking and without eating. And just wait, you know, for the messages that come from Spirit to guide them, to teach them about who they are and where they come from, and how to use what direction do they really need to take. What are the priorities, where are the commitments that they need to embrace and to live and to be honest with themselves and for the young men, they need to learn and respect that balance of being a part

male and part female because we, all human beings, whether you're a woman or a man, you do have masculine and feminine energies and you need to have that balance and really honor, really honor women, you know, so the old ones, the older ones, they teach those things to to the young ones. So when they come out of a vision quest like that, they can be guided by an elder who was overseeing them. And the young ones would teach, tell the older ones about what they experienced in their vision quest. And it's the, it's the, elders who are able to kind of help them interpret it, interpret everything that they've experienced, right, so that they get the right, you know, a good perspective of what awaits them and what they need to do in the now.

And that women, they also have special ceremonies to help them emerge and come out of from being a guru. to being a woman much like the the men who take the young boys aside and teach them how to become a man and that's the the older women who teach them about how to conduct themselves as life givers prepare them you know for bearing children and when to do it and can to know about the power of women and the cycles that they go through and the significance of that. Their relationship to the sacred waters and to grandmother wound, all the feminine energies are very powerful, just like the masculine energies, you know? So the men and women, they realize that there is a difference between the male and the female.

Yet they know that there's a sacred connection that needs to be honored. And if it's not honored, then things can go sideways. So they're brought up that way. And those are some of the, those are some of the, those are some of the, practices that are done to prepare our young people for adulthood. Just going to the masculine and feminine and going to that balance, that has a lot of similarities with the yin and yang symbol. And I'm just interested to know, do you think that there's this depth to just human

beings that intrinsically looks and knows about these patterns and finds these patterns? Because I think that that is true, that there is a balance to be struck. And it seems like other cultures have found perhaps similar ways of describing that same connection. Well, we're every human being that comes into the world, we're all made of fire, water, earth, and air, right? So the fire and the air, that represents the masculine energies, and water and earth represent the feminine energies. And when we look around us in the natural world, those energies are in everything. and when I went to the cedar trees one day I waited for a good message and the message I got from the cedar trees that day was that if you look at how we are and these trees were big trees and went pretty high in the sky and And they're still there.

And I still did them. But they said that if you really watch us, if you see how we've grown, we did absorb the energies of

the sun. That's a masculine energy. The energy of Father's sky. That's an energy. And and our roots go deep into Mother Earth and the rains and the moisture that comes when our roots go to a riverbed

we absorb those feminine energies of Mother Earth and the water spirits and so if you move forward in your life and continue to balance you know, the masculine and feminine energies within you in the right way, you'll see that you will grow, you'll continue to grow, and like us, you know, you will bring benefits across generations just by being who you are and honoring those energies that you have. So I thought that was a really good way to explain that everything has,

masculine and feminine energies and and so do we so it pays no benefit to uh to to to put down women or or to put down men they need to be held in balance because they're both necessary you know to be in harmony to be in harmony of of how we need to be to be to be you know to live in this beautiful mother earth of ours that everything is an expression of those feminine and masculine energies and that's the way we need to do that's the way we need to be as well that's that's absolutely beautiful and I think not being said enough by a lot of people so I'm really grateful to be able to have you on can you tell us a little bit more about spirit quest or vision

quests do they still take place today are they still common Yeah, they are common. I've gone on Vision Quest in my life. When I was young, I didn't benefit from that. I was, I moved away. I was born in Hope B.C. and my dad, he got a job in Setsail, Quebec, and he moved our family over there. And so I grew up, and I was, I grew up. in a town that included, you know, French and English, Italians, Portuguese, and then Wilmuk, they were there. The Inu people were there. They were called Montagné in them days. But I didn't bring up, I didn't have the upbringing of living in our village, like Esquois or Stajalas or other. communities in our territory here. I was estranged from our territory. But when I came back home, I knew the significance of going on a four-day fast and what it meant. And I learned when I came back home that there were ceremonies and that that

There's ways that have our men take the young boys and they bring them out and they teach them how to hunt, they teach them how to fish, they teach them how to become a man and all the values and all the values and the rules and the rules and the responsibilities that they need to prepare themselves for because they're going to be the ones that will have to carry on, you know, what is being left, you know, to us through our oral teachings that have been passed down from generations and generations. They're taught to go out and create things. And when they're guided, you know, with those teachings about how to become a man from the circle of men, then they become confident.

They become more confident in how they need to relate to themselves as a young man and emerging, emerging towards, towards full maturity. And part of that is, is always to, to cultivate that, that deep respect that they need to have, you know, with, with women, with the feminine energies. And the women, likewise, they're able to take the young girls aside away from the men, away from society, and they surround them and teach them about what it's like to become a woman, what it's like to give birth, what it's like to be a mother, what it's like to be a mother. what is that special connection that they have, you know, with Grandmother Moon and Mother Earth. And the power that women have, you know, is very precious as a life giver.

So they're given all kinds of really good teachings that the women know how to express and to pass on to the young girls so that they can appreciate. who they are as life givers and relate to men in a way that is respectful and that becoming a women they have their special place in our in our history we we we come from matrilineal way of life and so the women are taught about that feminine lineage that that they have and the role that women played in decision-making and it's a it's in sharp contrast to to the patriarchal society where men dominated everything and there and and and and we can see that imbalance that's there because

patriarchy is is still alive there's been some progress that has been made towards towards uh dismantling a patriarchy that has gotten gotten us into an awful out of trouble but uh i think uh i think at least things are moving in the right direction um and needs to continue. But the traditional ways that we had, you know, with bringing up the young ones through these practices is very, very important. I really agree with you because I think that going, experiencing hunting and experiencing fishing are some of the things I missed out on living in a rural, in an urban setting where it was so busy. We grew up in poverty, so there was no financial opportunities to go fishing, to go hunting when I was living in downtown

Chilliwack. And so I'm really interested in learning more about those elements because it is about becoming self-sufficient, but it's also understanding a lot of what's gone on in my history. So my grandmother was Rita Pete, and she obviously experienced Indian residential school, which obviously had a huge impact on her life. And then my mother was raised by my grandmother Dorothy Kennett, so she was part of the 60s scoop, and it ended up being beneficial in that we had a lot of family support, but I missed out on learning to fish, learning to hunt, learning where the spots are that you're supposed to go, learning about the traditions of the ceremonies and how those processes work. And to this day, I've really never had those

experiences. And so it's really meaningful to learn about the impact that that has on development of a person because it's something to me a lot of my friends and family have also missed out on. And so there's this deep disconnect that I see with nature and us and feeling like being in nature is being on a main trail and being in the middle of an urban setting like Stanley Park and you're somehow in nature and it's like you're sort of in nature, but you're definitely in an urban setting still. And so that's all I've really ever experienced growing up and and even to this date. And so I'm interested to learn more about that relationship with catching animals or with hunting,

because hunting is something I think that's gotten more recently a bad reputation, but I think indigenous cultures really show how to do that properly. So would you be able to share a little bit about that approach? Yeah, I can share what I know about it. There's a lot of teachings that our people have about hunting and fishing and gathering and gathering our medicines and our food that comes from our stomach, our homeland here. And hunting is, it's very important to become aware of the fact that in order to survive in this world, something else has to die.

It is a fact, but when we teach people about about what we need to do, about what we need to live, everything that are Khakhashwali, the life spirit of this universe, it created an abundance of everything. And we need to honor the spirit, honor the spirits of those who we believe are there to sacrifice themselves, themselves so that we can live, so that other animals could live, perhaps.

You know, like a deer, there's wolves that hunt the deer, and the dears have to be there, you know, in order for the wolves to live. And there's always that balance of predator and prey that is so much of a, so much reality if the wolf population hunts deer almost to extinction then there's not enough food you know for the for the wolves and the wolves start to die back and when the wolves die back then the deer population that goes up right so there's there's always that that ebb and flow of life in that context but When we go out to hunt, what we do is we need to use our songs,

use our prayers, our own way of praying, you know, to honor the ones that we're going to hunt and do it within our minds, not to waste anything, not to make sure that when we take an animal, We thank the animal for giving up its life, you know, so that we could continue to benefit. Because there's nothing that we can give back to Mother Nature except because we're so vulnerable. We're so dependent on nature that we need to bow and honor of them and provide. And just have that spiritual

soul gratitude and respect for the animals that we're hunting so that we can have food so that we can have, you know, the bones can be used for utensils and the hide, you know, can be used for clothes and make our drums and make sure that we don't waste anything.

And so when we do that, when we do that with that mindset and our heart set, there's two things that we need to talk about when we do that. Very often people talk about the mindset that we need to have, but we as Wilma people also talk about the heart set that we, we need to have. And gratitude and love and respect are come from the heart, not from the mind. So that's the way we need to think, you know, when we're going to hunt, that we're grateful, you know, for them providing us with what we need to live a good life. And not to take any more than what we need, not to over-hunt, not to over-fish, but take only what you need. And that way,

You know, life can continue on this planet and future generations can always benefit. Because we talk about Tomiuk in our language. Our language was almost totally gone by the wayside. But we're so lucky that we had elders and people who were really interested in making sure that we continued with our language. And there's a revitalization of Halcamaelam. And this word Tomiuk is of great significance because we're always said that that word tamioch means

we're always at the center. There's seven generations behind us and there's seven generations before us. And so we always want to make sure that we acknowledge you know, what seven generations past have left us. When we look around and live us, we still have, there's a lot of things that have disappeared because of climate changing

because of overpopulation, but we still have what we need. So we carry that responsibility to honor our ancestors and live our life in a good way. way so that we can be good ancestors to the next seven generations and leave behind, live with the light carbon footprint as we talk about today, you know, so that life can continue. This, the land can be protected. The waters, the sacred waters can be protected enough so that our future generations will will continue to benefit from others.

There is a lot to what you just said. I think seeing a lot of this vegan plant-based movement is partly, not all of it, but partly a reflection of this disconnect we have with animals and this feeling of that we're taking and not offering any gratitude towards it. And I think I see with well-intentioned vegans and well-intentioned vegetarians that their heart is really I didn't do anything to deserve this I didn't do anything to earn this

I didn't honor this animal there's part of that in why they're choosing to become a vegetarian or a vegan that they don't feel that they're playing any positive role that they're just taking and not offering anything in return

and so I've seen that with a few obviously there's some who do it for health reasons but there's some who just feel that they don't have the right to take a life that they don't have that position And I think that that's reflected in this feeling of honoring and appreciating and utilizing fully. And I also had the opportunity. I don't know if you know the town butcher.

But Bill Turnbull works very hard to make sure that all the animals he brings in are well treated, that they have the proper nutrients, that there's no antibiotics or hormones added to modify the animal for our consumption. And so I think that we're as a Western society starting to wake up to these ideas. that have been long-standing in indigenous traditions. And I'm interested to hear your thoughts on, you're right, this climate change movement. They're almost following indigenous teachings, just using different terminology.

And I'm interested in your thoughts on that. Yeah, I think, you know, you're right. There's that right relationship that we need. to foster and have with the birds, the animals, the fish, the ones that crawl, the ones that flutter. All of them, you know, the rooted ones, all of them are special gifts. We've been exploring, you know, going out into the world, into the universe now, and seeking seeking life somewhere else. But nowhere have they found yet a beautiful, beautiful jewel that we see as Mother Earth.

Mother Earth has a spirit. Some people call it Gaia, or we call it our Chaka Tamokhtal, our sacred Mother Earth that has a spirit. And if we develop the right relationship with our sacred Mother Earth and all the gifts that she provides, you know, the generosity of the abundance of life, you know, that is around us, we need to establish that right relationship with them. And we as Wilmuk people, when we say, all my relations, that means we acknowledge, you know, our relatives, the rooted ones. We honor, we have special ceremonies that honor the salmon, the first salmon ceremony every year. Can you tell us a little bit more about the first salmon ceremony? Yeah, there's, in our history, we believe that salmon are truly our relatives. And every year, in order to acknowledge and appreciate our relatives who come up in these

cycles from the headwaters they go all the way out to the ocean and they go big and they come back and they have to swim upstream and they find their way right back where they were born so they have that trust in themselves and they have that sense of light purpose that they need to swim in large numbers you know as a huge tribe you know to make their way through these cycles so that they can feed the orca, they can feed the bears and the wolves and the humans and still thrive and still grow in numbers through their natural cycles. All that needs to happen is for them to have that free passage, that free, clean passage for them to swim in a clean ocean and the clean water and the clean waters. And so when our people go fishing,

in a springtime and they catch that first salmon they bring that salmon uh to uh to the community and um they uh they do these special preparations to cook the the the salmon over uh over an open fire and uh um our uh spiritual people um they use the cedar you know to uh brush a pathway you know, for them. And we have our drummers and singers. After the salmon has been cooked, there's a feast in a hall or in the Longhouse. And we bring in the salmon,

and the salmon, they're sung into the Longhouse, and they go counterclockwise. And the reason why they go counterclockwise is because they go back, it's like going back in history, going back to our ancestors. thanking our ancestors for all the teachings and guidance that they're providing us. So we're singing and we're praying that they come and help us, you know, continue on our way of life.

And the salmon is brought to the center, the first salmon is brought to the center. And everybody in the Longhouse, the people who do the first salmon ceremony invite people from around. the territory to come and and witness, you know, what is going on. And they're asked to everybody to have a little piece of that salmon and to take the bones and make sure that they're all gathered up after they share the salmon. And the remains of the salmon, what happens after the ceremony is over and after people have stood up, you know, and talked about how important this salmon, this first salmon ceremony is, how important the salmon is to our people.

It's how it's fundamental to our spiritual, cultural, and physical well-being that we, in fact, are salmon people. and once all the sharing is done they bring a young one and the elder and the fishermen they go back to the water and they pray to the water spirits thanking the water spirits for being a wonderful home for the ones that swim for the salmon and they release the bones

and the remains back into the river and they thank the salmon spirits, the salmon people for continuing on their annual, on their cycles so that they can continue to benefit from this rich resource, this sustenance that we have from the salmon. There's many good benefits that come with consuming clean, good salmon. And so we recommit ourselves to making sure that we carry out our responsibility, you know, to care for the salmon, to care for the river, and so that future generations can continue to benefit from it.

And we believe that if we don't do this ceremony, if we quit doing this ceremony, then the salmon won't come back anymore. And in today's world, what is going on is that people from many other parts of the world have come into our territory. and we invite those key people who have a responsibility, you know, for the ocean and the rivers and the salmon, like the Department of Fisheries and Oceans. We like to try and cultivate that respect, you know, with them as well because now it's not only us, you know, that carries this responsibility. This is a shared responsibility that we have and that we all need to be in unity with this spirit of connecting, you know, with the salmon.

I think that that is something where, like, in my head, I hear the atheists speaking in my head and going, connection to salmon and to trees, what is that? Like, prove that. And so I think I just want to tie in that there is real evidence for what you're saying. There is, like, through evolution, through biology, we know that we're descendants of trees and we have a lineage and a DNA connection with these things that go all the way

through history to the beginning of species and the beginning of, like, vitonutrients. And so we've had this connection for a really long time, and I just want to give that credit of, again, I think indigenous culture has known this for a long time, this connection. and now science is starting to show that that connection is true, that we are connected on a deep molecular level to the things around us, and that this isn't just spiritual. This is actually true. We have evidence to support exactly what you're saying,

and I think that that is a gateway for a lot of people who struggle with the spiritual, because I've always been that more logical person and always had struggles with those ideas. But the more I've been able to understand through a scientific lens, that what you're saying, it fits in with the science properly. We understand evolution. We understand how things adapt and change and grow. And there's this great Netflix documentary called Connected.

And they show how the winds in the Sahara Desert actually impact Greenland and other places around the world because the sand and the dirt that picks up there actually protects our ozone layer and does a whole bunch of things that we didn't realize. did and plays a role in different ecosystems around the world. And they do eight episodes on the various ways that our Earth is connected. Oh, yeah. And so I think that all of these things get lost to people where they think that they have a small impact. But if you have a whole community of people not recycling, that has impacts with the oceans just down the way. And I don't know if you've heard of Boyon Slat, but he's actually working on cleaning up the oceans. And he started that at like 16. and his program is called the ocean cleanup. And so they've been working on that since he was 16, and they've got machines that go along the water that try and pick up,

I don't know if you've heard of the garbage patches that exist, but there's giant, almost the size of Texas, I think, is the North America garbage patch. And it's just garbage that has built up in our oceans for years and years and years that we've never done anything about. And he's trying to address it and trying to find. a way to bring that back to land and then what he wants to do is recycle it and allow people to purchase the items that come from it. So if it's a bunch of bottles and you get like new shoes from cleaning up the oceans and trying to do that in a more sustainable way. That's absolutely awesome. And it's, it, it inspires hope for humanity. And there's, There's quite a few things we can talk about, you know, regarding the conditions that we're living in right now in this, on this mother earth of ours.

And when we look at it from our Stalo perspective, at least from my Stalo perspective, I look at our great lineages that go deep. It's a very deep and profound relationship that we have, we know, with this part of our world. And Shwooyam was a time of chaos. And our transformers moved through our territory and transform those beings that were doing good things. form them into what we call schachanas, which means gifts from the creator or from life spirit.

So those special relationships that we have carried a deep, deep sense of gratitude, respect, and responsibility. And if we don't live those values and principles, then we're going to be contributing towards, we will contribute towards a continued, out of control chaos called climate change. So we have to be very mindful about that. that and the fact that that we're living in a new a world that is much

different than that distant past and from the distant past going all the way to where we are today we've become minorities in our in our homeland and we have much to to contribute because we as Hulmuk, as indigenous people, we come from great civilizations. The Europeans came here and they followed what was given to them given to them by Pope Nicholas V when he wrote the papal bull that gave them the sense that they have this right you know to go out to new lands and and and wherever there are Saracens and pagans they were they were told that they have a right to subdue

them and take over their land and and make sure that that that Christianity was spread throughout any new territories and that we weren't we weren't even considered as human beings you know so but that dark period is is is the worst seems to be over but there's a whole lot of healing that needs to take place you know, to have that right relationship that is built, that needs to be established. And the right relationship needs to have that understanding of that rich cultural heritage that we have, these laws that we follow, these principles and these values that we've embraced, you know, for thousands and thousands of years are as just as, just as relevant today, you know, as they were thousands of years.

So when we look at the world and how things have spun out of control, we can see that science and technology has taken us down a materialistic path. And that materialistic path has gotten us into an awful lot of trouble. And that's why we're experiencing climate chaos now. And when we see all the good things that you talked about, you know, about people around the world noticing, you know, what's going on, you know, we need to clean up the environment. We need to respect them. We depend on this, these life-giving gifts that have been provided to us in a way that humanity can continue. And if we don't, then humanity is going to have their turn.

their turn to go extinct because a lot of animals and birds and plants have gone extinct because of human activity and corporations they don't have a soul, they don't have a spirit. So the way science and technology has been used leaves out what is very, very essential in that spirituality. So we need to weave spirituality within the science and technology in a way that will create a paradigm shift that is absolutely essential

if we're going to survive as human beings. If life on this beautiful planet of ours is going to have life, then it's absolutely essential that we accomplish this. And once, once, once spirit, once spirituality has become instilled in the consciousness of people, then maybe that will put an end to giving so much power to corporations because they've been given the status as a person, an entity that has no soul,

And if they, if we're able to change that and put the soul in there somehow, put the spirit in there, in that somehow, then we'll have a whole new, new world outlook that money isn't a God, you know. Money is, can be good, but it's, it's, it's, it's gone, it's gone wrong because it's only used to destroy mother. destroy the life-giving gifts that we have for money and they can provide you know rationale as much as they want but if they leave that spiritual connection out of there it's not going to mean anything because we'll continue to sacrifice the earth for profit only and I and that's wrong. But I can see that there are changes that are being made and there are human beings from all colors, from all backgrounds who are rising up now. There seems to be more respect

than ever before to indigenous peoples around the world and how we relate to Mother Earth. And the value of that has gone up. And that's why you see people fighting to save old growth, old growth trees and cleaning up the ocean and doing things, you know, to respect, to truly respect our environment. And it kind of reminds me of what the spirits have been telling us. Especially with the 215-plus children who were discovered at the Cumbloops. our people responded our people had a spirit

that powerful spiritual connection and they actually they knew what to do so they acknowledged that they were found they were found we have to go see them now so they got their canoes and they got their drummers and singers they got their people who knew a ceremony and knew those connections to ancestors

and they went up to to cummuffs and they did ceremony up there and they were able to they were able to invite you know the the children who were who were earthbound spirits

you know inside those residential schools and they they were able to comfort them enough you know with our songs and with our encouragement that you belong you are loved you are worthwhile you are you are valued, you know, you are loved. We love you.

Come and get in our canoes and we're taking you back home. So some of our people actually were able to see, you know, the old ones. Time means something totally different on the other side. So the old spirits came down. They made themselves small so that they could, they could be with the younger spirits and persuade them, you know, that it is a good thing to go back home, not to be afraid. And so they got on the canoes and they came home. And when they got home, we did our burning ceremonies. Our burning ceremonies are very powerful because

we feed the spirits. We send them clothes. We burn clothes for them. Gifts. You know, there are things that go to the other side. And when we did that ceremony, that burning ceremony in our community, our holy ones, our people who know the sacred work, were noticing and seeing, you know, what was happening on the other side and the messages that they were sending us.

So, Samathal, he explained that it's different on the other side now. We asked different people from different families to stand up and be in a line, you know, stand in a line. So we all got up there and we stood in a line and he said, he said, the way you are now,

he said, that's the way it is on the other side. He said, it's not me talking, it's them. What they're wanting you to do, is say, is to be like them. They're all standing and aligned together. And that's the way you need to be. You need to stop being, stop looking at division. Stop looking at what separates you, you know, to be united.

And you need to live in two worlds. You need to live in your own world where you've embraced your traditional values and spiritual practices. and you also need to live in the larger world as well. And if you combine those two things together, you can be even stronger, you know, and you can beat people at their own games, you know, those who are doing things only for profit. You can use this immunity to protect what we have

and to live a good life and to be responsible for those future, generations. So unity, harmony, harmonious relationships, that to me was the biggest medicine that came across the fire to me because that is what is needed more than anything else in this world is unity. It sounds like pie in the sky, but it's absolutely essential that we do move in that direction as much as we can to cultivate good relationships amongst all peoples because we're all in this together as humanity.

And if we don't learn to live together in a good way, it's just like our teaching from Tchualatza. We need to live together in a good way that's the message that came from Tejwalatsa when Techwalatsa was transformed. That carries great significance to us today. And I think that when people, when people engage and they come from different cultures. There's an extra effort for us to try to understand, you know, where we're coming from first and then to state the good direction that we need to go. In a way that is as persuasive as possible, it's what everybody sees

that the right way is the way that will benefit all our relations around us. and as this human beings. That's absolutely beautiful, and I think you're right. I think that for some people, that comes across as optimistic. This is a very difficult conversation, but I think you're probably one of the best people to ask about this because it's such a difficult question. You talk about divisiveness with the discovery of the 215 lost children.

how does other people's religions fit in? Because I see a lot of people absolutely enraged with the Catholic Church, with Christianity as a whole. And part of my thinking is that those people who committed those atrocities weren't representing their religion at all in a proper way. And to me, those are bad actors. And perhaps we shouldn't blame the, teachings or the original teachings of those belief systems because it's pretty clear if you read

the Bible that there's nothing about it that says they should have gone out and done what they did, that there wasn't any connection between the two. And so for me, I'm, I think it's complicated because I think for a lot of people, this is a, well, let's just throw away religion and belief and spirituality. And let's just throw all those things away because they make people do commit atrocities. And to me, it's these. people weren't representing their religion at all in any positive light, and they were committing crimes that they knew themselves would have been wrong. Like, there's nothing about any belief system that I'm aware of that operates in the Fraser Valley

that promotes murder, genocide, abuse, sexual assault. Like, that isn't the fundamental teachings. And so I'm interested to know what your thoughts are on how we should navigate this very complex dialogue and because I think a lot of people are handling it poorly perhaps. Yeah, that's one of the biggest challenges that we're facing right now. Because religions and religious institutions wield a lot of power and influence. And we see it in our own history because as heinous as some of the things that were done with that intent, you know, to kill the Indian and the child. It was, it comes with within our people a lot of mixed feelings about it because, like you said, they saw some of the good teachings.

came out of religion, yet it was in sharp contrast to the behavior of those who were supposed to represent their religion. And I've struggled with this all my life because I hated religion. I hated what happened. I wanted to be a priest when I was a little kid, but because I was saw, you know, hey, you know, these are kind hard people, you know, they look, they sound like they're good people and everything, so I want to be like that too. So, so, but then I, then, then, then, then, uh, uh, caught wind of, uh, of, uh, the blood that is on religious hands, you know, throughout, uh, throughout the history, uh, how patriarchal it was, how, how, how they, um, how they, um, persecuted so many people in the name of Christianity.

It was horrible. So I turned my thinking to, okay, I'm rejecting that. I don't like that. And then I talk with a lot of elders and they said, well, you know, those people who were behaving like that didn't really really live what it meant to be a true Christian and then I thought yeah that kind of makes sense and then there was just a continuation of this kind of oppression that that was there was

There's still some underlying oppression that is there. And so I got to thinking that our people, how did our people think about spirituality, you know, before the Christians came? We had our own spiritual practices that served us well. So we knew how to pray. We knew how to act spiritually, to live spiritually. So I started to learn more about that. And out of it, I came to believe that everything, as I was talking about, has a life spirit.

We're a life spirit. We're spiritual beings. We're multi-dimensional beings. We're spiritual beings, emotional beings, mental beings, social beings, political beings, we're like that. But how we relate to that, when we say all my relations, how we relate to acknowledging that Mother Earth is sacred and has a spirit, the stars, the moons, You know, the sun, they all have a spirit and an energy and a particular kind of energy. And the spirits of our ancestors, they're always, they're available to us any time we want to connect with them. I came to think that there isn't one, you know, holy man in the sky.

somewhere out in the universe maybe has a long beard and is watching over everything that we do I have had a big problem thing kind of relating to that right and so I thought no that's not the way it is not for me that the story of Christianity is to come from a land far far away and the way we related to spirit is way, way, way different. But the way that Christianity has come to North America, they're imposing this, the proselytizing. They did it in such a violent way to try and make us Christians thinking that we were, they're civilizing us, and yet see it, look what they did. It wasn't very civilized. We were civilized. We were already. We were already.

civilized. So this proselytization, I thought a lot about that. And I thought, well, you know, Christians are proselytized. Hi, Christians proselytize a lot. But we don't. You know, what we would like to tell people is when we talk about religion or anything, we say, take what is useful to you and set the rest aside. That's all. We don't, we don't want, we don't, we don't, we don't say ours is the best way you don't see you have to be like us no no you if you if you if Christianity is something that helps you Christianity gives you the I guess the teachings that that allow you to to live in harmony well you know you go and do that but I'm a pagan and I don't need to be saved right I have my

own belief systems. I follow teachings of the Longhouse, the ones that I know that are good. And I don't know. I'm not totally immersed in the Longhouse. I'm not a dancer. They have, those who become dancers have a lot of teachings that I don't know about. But the ones that I do know about, I have great meaning to me. And when I picked up the sweat lodge and the medicine wheel, it was, those were two, two spiritual practices that resonated with me. And it has nothing to do with Christianity. Right. Nothing. Not. And I say that without prejudice.

I say that, you know, like Buddhism and Taoism and Christianity and all those other. religions around the world, they're there. They're to be acknowledged. And people pick it up. And although it's, it gets used the wrong way, there's a, there's a right way. And so you pick up those beliefs and you want to do that, then that's your business, but not mine. Yeah, I definitely, I'm seeking, I guess, to try and reconcile the differences. because I had the opportunity to learn that there is a spiritual belief that when there was a great flood for indigenous people, we all connected canoes together, and that's how we coped with the great flood, and we were all raised up, and that's how we survived the flood, which has a lot of parallels to Noah and the Ark, and this idea that they created an Ark to protect themselves, but the underlying moral story behind the two is that eventually you're going to be flooded. If you don't prepare, if you're not cognizant, if you're not being conscious of what's going on, you're going to be flooded. And I think New Orleans is a good example of what that looks like in reality, because during Katrina, they stopped maintaining their dikes.

There was corruption within New Orleans. They stopped paying attention. They stopped being conscious. They stopped being focused on maintaining the walls and protecting themselves, and they were flooded. Now, obviously, I'm not going to say that they deserve that or anything like that. There was corruption within their political system, which had impact on their community. And I think that those are the opportunities that I'm looking for to kind of bring these two back together. Because I don't, I'm not sure I believe in a person named Jesus Christ, but I do believe that there's something deeply true that we're looking for role models, that we're looking for people to emulate.

and that's what this podcast is about. And the idea behind Jesus Christ is he is the ultimate role model. He died for everybody else to live. And he had an understanding of how to relate to the world. And the idea that you should try and embody him or be like him is the idea that you should aspire to be the ultimate good in the world and try and strive to the highest ideal possible, which is taking care of seven generations back and seven generations forward.

That's, to me, they don't, I don't want to find ways that they're different. I want to find ways that we can bring them together because there's always been this deep entrenched idea that indigenous values are in contrast to Christianity. And while I do agree that there's differences, I think that there are opportunities to find a connection between them. And that's how we perhaps reconcile with Christianity and how we move forward in a better direction. So I'd like you to tell us more about the medicine wheel as well. Well, before the Europeans came to what we call Turtle Island,

there's, and that's North America. There were some people are guessing, but there was some 22,000 different kinds of medicine wheels all across North America. and the one that the one that I have come to embrace is Sun Bear's Medicine Wheel and it has those four levels of layers to the medicine wheel that is comprised of 36 stones and at the center of the stone and represents the creator which creates everything out of love you know the whole universe and then in the inner circle there are seven stones one represents Mother Earth

one represents Father's Son one represents Grandmother Moon and then there's the four elemental clans the turtle clan that represents Earth the Frog Clan represents water the Thunder

clan represents fire and the butterfly clan represents the air so those are the stones those are the positions that teach us about our special nature our special characters our gifts and then from there you go to the four directions the cardinal directions when we build a medicine wheel we go to the north the direction of generosity where the buffalo is and then we go to the east where the Golden Eagle is representing new beginnings fresh new starts the qualities of clarity wisdom and illumination and then you go to the south where the coyote is and that represents the direction of growth growth growth

trust and love are the spirit path positions that lead from that cardinal direction to the center. And then the north is back to where the elders are. And so we, oh, the west is the direction of the bear spirit, the direction of responsibility. And experience, introspection, and strength are the spirit path positions that go from that cardinal direction to the center. So there are the four layers, each of those positions, 36 positions. Oh yeah, and then the moons. There are the moon positions between the cardinal directions. and we're all born under one of those moons, and I was born under the third moon of the north.

And the plant medicine is plantain, and the stone is turquoise, and the animal spirit is the cougar. And that moon position relates to one of the inner circles. The stone representing the Prague plan. And the Prague clan people are those who have deep feelings. They have a great deal of empathy. They find, they're always finding new ways. you know, they can express those feelings. So they have that special relationship

with the water spirits and Grandmother Moon guides our dreams and visions. And then there's three stones, you know, between each of the cardinal directions all the way around the wheel. So there's, each position has a plant totem, an animal totem, mineral totem, a color totem. And what's the other one? There's the plants, the colors, the animals,

and colors. So each of those positions, of those positions, what he calls that medicine wheel is something that we can learn from each of the positions as we go around the wheel. And it's important for us to visit periodically each position so that we can learn and grow from them all. And it's all about balance and harmony. finding our ways, finding our ways to balance, have that good balance with our emotional, mental, physical, and spiritual sides of who we are as human beings. There are so many different teachings and ceremonies that are done, you know, with the medicine

wheel that can help us restore ourselves to have. wholeness because that's what the medicine wheel is about it. We turning ourselves to wholeness. And we need to do that periodically because our past changing, we live in a world that that changes constantly. And so we have to continually to kind of readjust ourselves, you know, with it all. There's a beautiful rabbit over there. Medicine wheel, they represent. growth. You can see them all over the place here, right? Yeah, this morning. It's absolutely beautiful. And you've been involved in fighting for wild salmon for a very long time. And it's something that you've shown a true commitment to. And I'd first like to just appreciate you for

that because I didn't realize how important that is. But with the age of social media, I see a lot of people get involved and get very passionate about a cause and then drop it for the next cause. And it almost goes in quick cycles of this is the new issue of the day, I care about this issue, and then it disappears from their thinking. But being able to research and prepare for this interview, I got to see the utter consistency of your messaging and years of interviews and conversations with journalists hitting the same point and making the same coherent argument fighting for the salmon. And so I'd like to pull us back a little bit to when this started, but I'd also like you to tell us a little bit about what it was like to be around Justin Trudeau and kind of see what's going on with this new government.

Well, I got involved in the movement to save our salmon in 2010, that's when I really made a big, huge commitment to get involved and fully engaged. It was Alexander Morton, Dr. Alexander Morton, who was a marine biologist. She did a walk from Port McNeil all the way down to Victoria. and as she did, she got a huge following. And by the time she made it down to Victoria, I was hearing on the news all about it. And so I decided that I would go over there too

and support the message is that she was giving. And that was to get open at Penn Fish Farms out of the migration roots of Fraser River salmon. And I said, wow, they're doing great harm to our salmon. We've got to do something about this. So I'm going to support her. So I went over with some friends, and I wanted to meet her. But she was surrounded at that time with so many people that I didn't have a chance to talk with her.

But I kept following what she was doing, and eventually we did connect. And one of my friends started to organize a paddle for wild salmon, you know, that went from Hope all the way to Vancouver. And at that time, the Cohen Commission was on. and it was studying the collapse of wild salmon that took place in 2009. And that raised a big, huge concern to everybody about whether or not wild salmon was facing extinction or not. And so having participated in wild salmon ceremonies and learning our relationship to the salmon. I really took that to heart and I thought, I'm not going to be backwards about this.

You know, we consider ourselves as salmon people, just like First Nations all across, you know, the coast and up the river. You know, we all consider indigenous people, you know, living by these waterways, consider ourselves as salmon people. So I carry that responsibility seriously to watch over and protect our salmon.

So we continued our activities to raise the alarm bells about the destruction that fish farms were doing with diseases, with parasites, with dangerous pathogens. and how salmon were collapsing around those open-net fend fish farms, it was frightening, actually, to even to ponder, you know, what would happen if we didn't have any more salmon, you know? It would be horrific to us as Wilmuk people. It would damage us severely.

So at one of the events in Victoria, there was a friend of Dr. Alexander Morton and Issa Reed. She worked tirelessly, she worked like a trooper. She was just a powerful force working with Alexander Morton about protecting wild salmon from fish farms but she had gotten tired and so she she came to me and she gave me a whole bunch of science and she said that I know you're going to do something with this Eddie so I'm passing all these on to you really yeah wow so at that time she had initiated a farm salmon boycott so I said yeah okay I'll do that I'll do that so I picked up the

And I thought, wow, this is an additional responsibility I'm going to have to embark on. So I started organizing rallies in front of stores, big box stores that were selling farm Atlantic salmon to try to stop fish farms at the cash register, so to speak, right? So that was a big call there. And we went all over. I kicked started quite a few rallies at big box stores across British Columbia, you know, out in the island, down Vancouver, Camelutes, and other places. But they soon, those other places soon died down and they didn't do that because they turned their attention to other priorities, right? But I kept on going with it.

And it seemed like the government was not paying any attention at all to what was happening. So eventually there were huge initiatives to try and wake up the governments, both the federal and provincial governments to get fish farms out of the. the migration roots of our salmon and one of them was some 130 days or so of an occupation of the fish farms out on the coast and the fish farmers saw that the fish farmers saw that the awareness was going a way up so they got an injunction and they disallowed anybody to board those fish farms. But it really didn't stop the people who cared enough for the salmon on the coast there. So they started to organize flotillas to go out, you know, to the fish farms

and raise more public awareness about what was going on. And they had Chief George Kwok's Sister Jr. go to the fish farms with the Martin Sheen, Sea Shepherd's boat, research vessel. And they gave him a GoPro camera, and he boarded the fish farms. And the fish farmers came to try and persuade him to get off their fish farms. And he just talked circles around them and kept taking videos of what was going on underneath. And he found that many of those fish were suffering. from sores, they were deformed, they were quite visibly diseased, and there were tons of herring that got trapped in the fish farms,

and so this became hard, additional hard evidence that they're doing great harm to salmon salmon and as habitat. So we continued on and I found that it was necessary for us to move from just holding boycotts in front of bigpox stores and to start fundraising. And so we started fundraising and we sent money to those in the front line, you know, who were putting the hearts and minds of bodies and everything in the road to try to get these fish farms stop. We sent money to lawyers who were undertaking legal action to get them out. We sent money to scientists who were doing studies on this.

And right to this day, you know, we're as a result of all of this, activity. The indigenous people, Bob Chamberlain, he organized at the political level, the First Nations Fishery, a wild salmon alliance. And he made a number of interventions that actually brought the federal and provincial governments together. And they wouldn't have done that if there wasn't that occupation, though. But there was an additional political force that was necessary to bring them together. And as a result, they were able to get some fish farms out of the Broughton Archipelago. And because indigenous people are more assertive and enjoy international and national support, There's a lot of talk now about an action being taken by both levels of government in BC and at the federal level about the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous People.

We have some new legislation that was passed at the federal level. The province has Andrippa. So they're requiring more and more attention. you know, they're drawing attention to indigenous rights and title and the need, you know, to accommodate. The need, you know, for free prior informed consent, all those principles have to be abided by. So more recently, Bernadette Jordan, who's the minister of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, she consulted with indigenous leaders in the discovery. Islands and she decided that they didn't, since they didn't want them there, and she probably

looked at some of the science and hard evidence that was there and said, okay, we're going, we're going to close down the 19 fish farms in the Discovery Islands. And so that raised a whole big concern by Premier Horgan. Well, we weren't, you know, consulted about this. And the fish farmers said, this is not fair. And so we're not given enough notice either. So they launched some legal action and got judged. to say that they have a point, you need to really, really consider whether or not you'll

allow them to restock their fish farms. And so the Wild Salmon Defenders Alliance, I established an organization called the Wild Salmon Defenders Alliance together with a lot of other interveners, indigenous and non-indigenous. We mounted a political campaign to get her to agree not to restock. So in June 2022, those 19 fish farms are gone. And now what we want to do is to make sure that she carries through and becomes that emerging champion of wild salmon that we've been looking for at the federal level for so long.

And Bernadette Jordan is the person who can do that. And so we're urging her not to renew any of the fish farm licenses that are going to be coming up for renewal in 2022. That's amazing. That's got to feel like such an accomplishment because it's been 11 years of working towards the same goal. That's right. That's right. That's right. And it does take an awful lot of determination to do it.

I'm going over on March the 11th, no, not March 11th, July the 11th, to join up with George Quack's sister, Jr., he's a hereditary chief, as well as Arnold Chiquites, is another hereditary chief, Chief Darren Blaney of Humalko, First Nation, and many others from along the coast, they're inviting the the river people down there so i'm going to go down there and i'm going to be talking with chief laura mussel to see if she'll uh if our council will will approve that i go over there and speak on behalf of squa because i'm a counselor now yeah it's squaw first nation so um i'm sure that they will because uh squaff first nation has long been a supporter of getting fish farms out of the water. So, yeah, this thing seem to be moving in a good direction, you know,

on a number of fronts. And this one is so dear to my heart. I'm just so happy that things are happening. And I can see that there is a sunset to this fish farm industry. If they move on to land in containment, fine, you know. but the bottom line is they need to clear their way out of the migration roots of our salmon. Yes, have you heard of the whales that they only eat wild salmon? And they're very particular, and they've caught this, I'm not sure what you call a group of whales,

but they've found this clan of whales, I believe their orcas, will only eat wild salmon. Yeah, yeah, that's right. They eat Tai Yi, the spring salmon. They're very dependent on the spring salmon. So the pollution that comes out of fish farms is also harming the small fish that the whales depend on as well. So there is a dynamo effect. You know, like there is a, there is a series of impacts that fish farms have when they kill off our wild salmon. And one of them, of course, is, you know, because they depend on wild salmon and they're killing off, you know, what they need to eat as well as the herring.

And as the salmon, the salmon are Andromous, you know, they live in salt water and they live in fresh water. So what happens to the salmon down on the coast impacts us. And what happens up along the rivers impacts our people down there. So we have to be united. Going back to unity, we have to be united on saving something. as precious and integral to our spiritual, physical, and cultural well-being. So I'm just so delighted there's a groundswell, a groundswell, a ground swell of support, you know, for a while, salmon that is happening.

Even in the political arenas of the province and at the federal level, there are people there who are beginning to realize, yeah, they're right, you know, we have to get them out of there. That's awesome. I'm really happy to hear that because it just shows what perseverance and commitment to one issue can bring about. But I'm also interested, you lived over in the East Coast, and now you're back here on the West Coast, and you're from Squaw First Nation. Can you tell us a little bit about the differences that you notice between indigenous people, maybe the approaches or the values, And then can you tell us a little bit about Squaw First Nations? Yeah, we're like when I was growing up back east, I came to really respect the, the, the, the, what was called the Indian movement at that time.

There was, there was the creation of, you know, it was, it was a time when, um, it was a time when, um, all the work, all the hard work of some of our heroes, some of our warriors who are battling to try and to work towards making sure that our unseated territories were addressed, that we had indigenous rights, we have title to our lands and our, what we call today, our resources. And growing up in Setz Hill, Quebec, I didn't know too much about Canadian history because it wasn't taught. And growing up in a bilingual community, I didn't learn as much as I could have had I grown up in my own territory here. So my heroes in them days were Cochise, it was red cloud, it was sitting bold, a lot of those leaders who were fighting for survival during their time, they were my heroes. And then when I got to know the Montagné, when I got to know the Montagnay, when I got to know the Mohawks and the Cree, and the Inuit, there was a big, big movement that was associated with land claims. And I had gone down to university, and I got a sense of the injustice that was happening to indigenous people across North America.

But I was still thirsty for more. still wanting to engage and get involved in what was called the Indian movement in them days. And so I graduated out of the University of Prince Edward Island, got to know the Mick Max, which was really a lot of fun. But I went back and I got involved with the Métia non-status Indian movement, and I winded up moving from Setsil to Montreal. all. That's where I met my good friend, Art Manuel. It was George Manuel's son, right? And he was such an inspiration. I always enjoyed spending time with him and talking. We were just

young guys at that time, and we were talking about land claims, the constant. of Canada what was what was that like and and what controls that the federal government had over over I guess lands and Indians and you know lands reserved for Indians and that kind of stuff and we dabbled a little bit about about what was going on in the international level and anyways I was so happy to I get to know the Mohawk people. And I went to their longhouse and really paid attention to how disciplined that they were about their prayers, always prayers of gratitude, acknowledging all our relatives, and knowing

the history of the Mohawks as a very powerful and strong nation. And their philosophy, their laws, really had an influence on even the Constitution of the United States of America. And what I admired them the most was about the rightful place and the rightful place and a good place that men and women had. And I thought it was very, very interesting that the women were the ones who were able to choose who is going to lead them.

And they would choose a man to lead them, but the men would have to conduct themselves as a good leader. And if the women weren't sad, they could take that leadership away and give it to somebody else. So, yeah, I was very impressed with the role of the grandmothers, the world of the matriarchs in the Mohawk community. Could you just elaborate a little bit more? Because I think that, and I've mentioned this a few times,

that I think our Western culture really doesn't value seniors or the elders properly. And I had the opportunity to interview Spencer, who's a sociologist, and he kind of lined that up with our capitalistic approach to everything, is that once you're no longer in the workforce, once you're no longer contributing, that that is why we kind of have this approach with seniors, because during COVID, we definitely saw seniors' homes not get the care that I think they absolutely deserved to have.

And indigenous culture is almost the exact opposite, and I'm so proud to be able to say that, because there is from a very early age, this respect for elders and this honor for elders that Western culture just doesn't have even a little bit in comparison to indigenous culture. Like, as a native co-worker, I worked with clients who were in custody. And when my predecessor would go into cells as an elder, they would give her the utmost respect and always want to offer that to their elders. So can we talk a little bit more about that in that same light? Sure. I think what First Nations value the most about elders is that they've, they're knowledge keepers.

They're the people who paid attention, you know, to what we inherit from our ancestors. and they're so willing to share that. And that's their time, you know, to be generous with that knowledge. And without that knowledge, without ensuring that the laws and the principles and the values that we need to embrace are carried on, It's through the encouragement of our elders. And it's our elders who watch over our children, too. They watch over and make sure that, you know, they notice them and they see the special little gifts that they have

and what kind of a nature do they have. They can see, oh, that one's going to be a good hunter. That one's going to be a leader. That one is going to, you know, be able to do certain things that others can't. So they reach out to them and they kind of cultivate that confidence and that encouragement to the young ones. So because of that role, indigenous people almost revere elders because they've lived such a long life. And they have something special to pass on.

And it's a wonderful thing. It's about not only a need, but it's a love. It's a love for everyone. Everyone counts. Everyone is needed. Everyone belongs. Everyone has a role and to ensure that elders are included and are looked to, you know, for the knowledge and the wisdom that they have, we have that practice of ensuring that their needs are taken care of, their look to, their, their words and their words and their feelings.

and their knowledge is all taken in, you know, with a great deal of respect. And that's why our young ones are taught to, our young ones are taught to go to our elders and make sure that they're okay. Bring them water, bring them food, take good, loving care of them. And actually, actually not just that, but to actually sit down and spend time with them. Right? Exactly. Because that's the most meaningful thing that you can give to a human being is paying good attention to them.

I couldn't agree more. That's really what this podcast is about, is being able to give the space for someone to actually share their stories in a full way. And I just recently lost my grandmother, Dorothy Kennett. And she took my mom in from Kokeza. She was a nurse there, and she took her in. and raised her as part of her family, even though they weren't biologically related. And with COVID, I didn't get to spend as much time as I would have liked, because for me,

over these past few years, I feel like I've really gotten to wake up and start to see my role in all of this in Chilliwack, in the Fraser Valley, in BC, and start to want to work towards that. And one of my biggest regrets is not being able to share this with her and get her feedback. And so the only way I am able to carry forward is knowing that my grandmother, Rita Pete, she faced Indian residential school. And I cannot imagine the endurance you had to have to go through those experiences and choose to have children after that. And then my mother, who has a disability and her willingness to carry on and take parenting classes and to want to do better for me and seeing my grandmother, Dorothy Kennett, who took my mother in, and was willing to do that. And then to help raise me,

I feel this immense responsibility to them, this to carry on their legacy, to carry on this willingness to endure probably hell and try and pass better messages forward and to try and move forward, despite all of the atrocities and all of the horrendous ways they were treated to try and do better based on them putting me on better footing.

Because with my undergraduate degree, and now I'm the first in my indigenous community, Chihuahawful, to get a law degree, or at least be working towards that. I feel this response, this opportunity to continue to represent these people who played such a pivotal role in my life and to know that they made sacrifices so I could be where I am today. And so it's humbling and it's exactly what you said. It's a purpose. It's somewhere where even though people don't know the work that goes in behind the scenes to put this together, that I know it's all worth it

because I get to continue on with what these people before me carried and now it's my turn to carry the water forward and to try and help everybody move forward in a better direction and one of the ways I see that is bringing awareness and light to you

because I'm sure that there are a lot of people who feel they lack knowledge or wisdom or someone to talk to. And so being able to hear from someone like yourself is so important to me because it's something that I missed out on and it's something that I know a lot of people miss out on by not knowing how to connect or how to approach or how to send the email and people fall into

this and then they miss out on everything that we've gotten to talk about so far and be able to grow from that. And so I really appreciate the value that indigenous culture puts on elders because it's also putting weight on history. And that is one thing I think my generation is doing a terrible job of is really understanding history in its fullest form in the fact that a lot has occurred in the past and there were a lot of mistakes made. But how do we move forward better from those mistakes and from those atrocities? You know, what you said is so profound. It's a beautiful, It's so good to hear you, you speak that way, because that's kind of how we need to be. Whenever we come to know our family, to come to know our roots, it's our family and it's our family and our culture and our spirituality that is medicine to us.

And those who have gone on before, and we haven't had enough time to spend with them, we talk with others who knew them, right? And they tell us stories about their life and what they were like. And there's a lot of funny stories, there's a lot of wisdom, there's a lot of just a lot of richness of their life that, that only people from different, you know, parts of our community who witnessed and spent time with ones who have gone on before, they carry a little bit of their spirit. And then when they get together and they have these fond memories of this person,

they can put it back together again as a little package and really honor them, you know, for what how they were or what they left behind what kind of light did they leave behind you know and you feel good you feel happy you know once you once you know you know what goodness they left behind and um i can see that uh in in in in how you expressed all that um so um it's a it's like uh maybe somebody who you were close to like i don't I was very close to my sister, Ethel Gardner. She was given a name by the elders called Stalamathet. And that means a woman with high education. That's what that means, right? In essence. And anyways, she went to university.

She got a master's degree at UBC. She got a master's degree at Harvard. Wow. She got a Ph.D. from Simon Fraser University, you know. And she did her thesis on carrying the language forward, right? And out of all her education, out of all the spectacular achievements that she, that she made. She never had a pretentious bone in her body. She treated everybody just like, you know, like they were a long-lossed friend.

You know, she treated everybody with respect and never put herself, never put forward, oh, I'm doctor, you know, this and that. She just addressed herself as she always was, you know. And I admired so much her ability to just stay grounded that way and just to, you know, somebody would talk with her for half an hour or so would know a little bit about her background, but not the entire thing. And, but the depth of what she carried was absolutely tremendous. So, it was in 2019, she started to get really tired. And in December, I brought her to the hospital and she found out that she had bone cancer, right? And she was involved with a beautiful project called Aestalmocstaltilum, and that means good medicine songs. And we worked with Holly Ardson and Kevin Wright, who were eco-rock musicians and our language carriers, Dr. Siam Yatiliat, you know, who was the last fluent speaker in our territory.

And Katwis was also a teacher and a relative of hers, Dr. Siam Yatiliat. but she helped create she was there to provide insight she was there to divide you know to kind of help coordinate and direct the project in a good way and we and in 2020 in January she she passed away and and it was a It was very sad, but we had to carry on. And we organized a showcase of the four songs that we created. And she was so as such an important part of it. There was Shulie, Life Spirit, Chalpea, Cedar Trees, Chaka Thaqa Sacred Salmon, and Thleith

which is Mount Cheyam, where the Water Springs. Those four songs were bilingual songs in Helcimaliman in English. And we had McCammon school students and the pre-school students from our community come together with Holly Arns and myself and Hotwis and my niece, Cheyenne. You know, we were drumming and singing with them and we sang these songs. and those songs were embedded, you know, in our Shkoukram stories, and our Spelkwell stories. And the school district number 33, Brenda Point, she had helped ensure that that was included in the curriculum

of our school district number 33 at that level now. So it was such a great celebration. But we all, all those who come to know Ethel and were involved in that project, our family. We made a commitment with ourselves that she was such a, such a powerful force, you know, for the revitalization of our Halcamelan language, that we committed ourselves to whatever we do for the language. We'll do it in honor of Ethel. That is beautiful. and you have been working on that.

So can you share a little bit about your work with the University of the Fraser Valley because I know you're an elder in residence there and one of your task is to carry on the Hellclam-Alamlam language? Yes, I'm so happy to, an honor to be an elder at the University of the Fraser Valley. They're continuing to foster a really good positive relationship with the stall of people. And of course, they have included in their education program four levels of Hal Kamelan that take people to moving towards, you know,

intermediate fluency. And that's what I have. I have the intermediate fluency. I've been working with Sian. the Attiliad. In the early days, we had Satsla Kwaat, Elizabeth Hurling, Tiliatholwit. She's from Matsqui and Huyallamot. You know Huayalamont? She's one of the Guterres elders, Joanne Hughes, you know her? Joanne Hughes, she's the daughter of Huyallamot.

Anyway, and then there was Yomelot. These were all very active elders who passed on the language to us. And then Siamia Tiliat, who was honored at the university. for her lifelong dedication to the El Camelan language. And so now she's Dr. Siamia Tiliah. And we're just so happy that she's the wealth of our language here in the Fraser Valley. And she's looked to and she tries to be as generous as she can, you know, to help people learn the language, get involved with tools, you know,

to help push the language forward. So I'm a teacher of the language. I like to teach my family the language, you know. So every week I have family members go on Zoom. And I put up different teaching tools online, you know, on Zoom. And we go over teaching, I teach people how to introduce themselves in our language. I teach them some prayers, you know, that they can say in our language. And you can see how it just brightens up their day, you know, just to learn, you know, how can I.

They're just so thirsty for the language. It's incredible. And but we always do it. honor of Ethel. Yeah. You know, we, we say, yeah, this word, these, these phrases, these words, these prayers, we have them now. They're never going away. And this is, these are, these are the, this is the language that we're carrying on and the Indian residential school can't take that away from us where we're going to keep it and we're going to pass it on. We're going to teach whoever else, you know, and our families and our circles who want to learn the language.

That's so beautiful. And it's something that I think, I'm glad to hear because we talk a lot, and I obviously rightfully so, about Indian residential schools, the 60-scoop colonization. But I don't think we talk enough about how we're not down and out. We're coming back. Yes. And that's what I want to hear more of and want to promote, is that I'm here. like I want to learn how clemelam, I want to learn these tools and I want to pass them on and we're going to come back and we're going to be on the upswing and that is my hope to promote is that I don't want people's pity. I want them to know that we are coming back with a vengeance. We are going to come back and make a difference and show all the benefits of the culture and the history and what we have to offer that it's the wrong mindset to conclude that we've lost and that now we need your help. that you might regret what you did because we're coming back and we're going to change some things around.

That's right. That's right. And the way to do that is through song, right? This song that we created inspires a sense of responsibility to carry on just exactly what you said. And that's Thleithlakee. And the story of Thlefliket is, is that she, Kualshanoch, who is Mount Baker now, Kualshanoch came up to our territory, and he made an arrangement with the families here to marry Slethleke, who is Mount Chiam. So Sleithleke went down to where Kualshanach is now,

and they had six children. They first had three sons, and then they had three daughters. And after they had the three daughters, she got lonesome for our territory here. And so she talked with Khrushanuk, and they came to an agreement that, okay, the three sons would stay here. and you will take the three daughters and you'll move back to your home.

And so that's what they did. So she made her arrange her trek back here, and she had her three daughters with her. And the dog that Kualshanuk had, followed her. And she tried to tell the dog, go back to Kulshanuk, but the dog was loyal to Thleithlakei, and so the dog followed her all the way back, you know, to, uh, to our, our home territory here. And, uh, she had, she carried that, uh, that, uh, sense of responsibility that she felt that she needed to, she needed to come back and watch over the people,

watch over the salmon and watch over the river. And so, Chachalz at that time, Savo was in her heart and transformed her into Slechleke, Mount Cheyenne. And that's the highest peak in our valley here. And so there are three small peaks. There's two up in the front there, and that represents Ayawatt and Saiawatt. And then there's Slumpchia, which is just on the other side. When you're facing east, she's just on the other side, and she's lower. And there's a waterfalls that come down.

And that represents her tears because she's crying because she can't see that panoramic view that her older sisters have. And then Dog Mountain is the head of a dog that you see, you know, just behind, Slefliquet. And Sleithlakee is now known as our mother mountain. And she's respected. Every time we go back there, we get that, we look at Sleithlake from where the water springs. That's what Sleisleke means. Chiam means always wild strawberries. And so there's a great significance. And When we think about her leaving her husband and her three sons down there and coming up here because she wanted to watch over, you know, the salmon, the cedar, and the water, the river, that instills a responsibility and that's that we need to do.

We need to take care of each other. We need to take care of the salmon. We need to take care of the river. And that's why I care so much. That's why I do what I can, you know, to participate in river cleanups, save our salmon and be there as much as I can, you know, to hound the people, you know, to be with the people. That's amazing. I'm very interested to, we have to circle back to this.

What was it like coming back to BC? What was it like to leave the East Coast in that culture and come to BC? Was it a shift or was it a smooth transition? It was an answer to a longing that I had, you know, because when I was living out in the East, I admired the Cree and the Mick Mug and the Mohawks and the Abenaki. I learned a lot from them about their songs and their dances, their values, their history and all that. but I felt like I was still out of place, right? Because I wasn't Mohawk or Cree or, yeah, Algonquin. So it took a little while, you know, like I was in Montreal.

I created the Native Court Workers Association. I helped create that. I helped create the Native Friendship Center there and the provincial association of friendship centers and what were those experiences like they were they were dynamic they were they were very very involved and it got me to travel quite a bit around uh around quebec because i try i knew quebec like the back of my hand you know before i i i left um and it was uh it was good to connect with people from indigenous people from so many backgrounds in Montreal as president

of the Friendship Center and eventually I became the executive director of the Friendship Center. And I always worked on intercultural understanding and respect. I just love to bring in the water drum songs and the rattles that the Mohawks used. I learned their songs. I was just so thrilled just to be there and learn those beautiful songs they have over at Kanwage. And so they came to the Friendship Center and shared them. And the Inuit, the Cree, they all had something special, you know, to offer.

And being part of the Native Court Workers Association, and it was bilingual. I had to learn, you know, to live in English and French there and maneuver with federal provincial governments and all that. You know, it was very challenging, but it was such an enriching experience. So I carried a lot of that knowledge of other nations with me, and I highly respect and highly regarded all of them. And I eventually made it to Ottawa, and I spent six years there as Chief of Native programs with the Department of Justice.

And that's when I got to travel all across Canada, all through the maritimes, all the way up Northwest Territories, Yukon, Prairies, B.C. I came out to all the capitals anyways, and got that experience. carrying on some of the work that I did, you know, at the federal level with the cost-shared agreements with the Native Court Worker Program and also Legal Studies for Aboriginal People's Program. I was able to expand that from five spots to 15 spots, you know, for Métian non-status Indians. So I saw how much work it took just to make that one change. It was incredible. But I felt like I was stagnating, you know, in Ottawa. I wasn't really connected, you know, with the land and the people.

So I finally made it back after six years in Ottawa. I made it back to Lippon First Nation. I was there as van manager. and it was a beautiful, beautiful time. They were doing a lot of work to save the Stein Valley and everything. And so I still got lonesome for coming back home, and so I finally left a lit impersonation. I came back home to our territory here.

And that was in 1994. In 1994, it was an incredible time with Stalination, because they stala tribal and Stalination, they came together and formed one strong nation. And for a while, you know, programs and services were expanding. we were looked to as woe models. And then eventually because of political reasons related to land claims and whatnot, they separated again. So, but during that time, I did stay with Stalination working with their government services.

In the beginning, I went to the Longhouse and I saw these, you know, the Kukhalets along, I saw, I saw people singing in our language there. I said, oh, wow. That felt so good to me, you know, to hear our language being sung. I was thrilled to hear that. And so I went over to Tiliakka, and I said, hey, I said, you guys are singing in our language, that is awesome. She said, don't you know how to sing in our language?

I said, no. I said, well, you should learn. So I said, okay, I said, how do you do that? So she told me about the movement, you know, that was a put at that time, you know, to have more of our people get fully engaged with learning the language with the goal of being teachers, you know, in their language. Wow, that was a big undertaking. So I thought, okay, so I did.

So I joined all the classes that were going on there at that time. and there was all these beautiful elders who were fluent in the language at that time. It was so good to, it was thrilling, you know, and a lot of fun just to be with them. And they were so patient with us, you know. We, in the beginning, of course, and had that strong English accent, learning the language and everything, but they were so patient about teaching us the correct pronunciation. They worked with linguists, you know, to develop tools. you know, to help us carry on the language in the right way.

And then I decided I would learn, I would create a song, and it's Stalo Shuli Huyata. And that's the spirit of the Stala forever. And so I created that song and sang it and got people to learn it. But during those times, They said, you need to bring our language alive in the community. So if there's a funeral going on, if there's an event going on, if people need to hear our prayers in our language, you go there and you share that.

At Christmas time, you know, there's public events. You go sing some of the songs we have were related to Christmas and all that. So we got busy, and I tell you, during that time I was younger and had a lot of energy. windered up at a lot of funerals and a lot of events just to share what I knew, you know, in the language, along with other teachers. And, but, of course, you get busy with a lot of other things. I never ever really, you know, left the language, but some of my attention went to some of the other priorities like saving our wild salmon.

and and but I kept on staying connected with elders and linguists and took some linguistic courses and kept with the language

so I feel like I'm growing in the language now. It's good to continue to teach our language but being in our territory I never had any songs come to me until I went to the water and I finally got those songs I talked

to you about one was the four direction songs and then I got an eagle song you know and then later on I got a healing song and Raven song so it's only because uh because uh you know we we connect with our ancestors through song yeah we connect to them through our language and I learned so much so many teachings you know of our people our laws and our principles

our values from learning the language and yes Dr. Siamia Tiliat she is such a powerful motivator

she says something that just resonates with your soul that goes deep she said Eddie you know our land is no simple language

you know we need to our land needs to hear language more wow you know

that that really woke me up to a whole new level you know I said yeah

okay so I got to go out and I got to I really have to do my part you know to pass on the language

and make it alive in the community so I do it with my family I do it with our community. We have a vision statement, you know, that I got Siamia Thiliad to fully translate for us and everything.

So it's just something that is inspiring, and I will continue to do my part. That's absolutely amazing. I absolutely understand it's getting very hot. I'm hoping that you can quickly share with us a little bit about the sweat lodges that you've run. And then we can wrap this up. For those of you who don't know, it's supposed to be a hot day on record.

And so it is getting a little bit hot. So please, if you could share that with us. You bet you. In our territory, we had what is called Catustle, Catustle. And that is a sweat lodge. And it was a small dome, you know, where our people would build by the river. And we'd go in there for purification. We'd go in there to cleanse and renew ourselves, you know, just as one person.

And they would bring, they would cover, you know, the dome, the small dome that would be made out of willow boughs or maple flowers. And hot stones would be brought in and close the door and prayers would be made, songs would be sung, and then you'd open the door. for the four rounds and you go in the water and come out all nice and refreshed and go back in and just release just let go of all those things that aren't good for your higher self and and when you're finished with that then then you become whole again you become renewed again and you can make a nice new fresh start so nowadays people are thirsty you know for for sweat lodge and they want, there's a desire now for communal, more communal sweat lodges. So there's, there are sweat lodges now for men, for women, for young ones, for co-ed, for indigenous and non-indigenous.

So there's such a huge need and a thirst, you know, for this spiritual type. practice that helps people, you know, restore themselves, purify themselves. So we have these sweat lodges now at different places across North America. And of course in British Columbia, there are people who are sweat lodge keepers. And my Uncle Terry is one of them. And I was in Lytton, Siowa. She was an elder up there. And she taught me how to make drums.

She taught me how to conduct a sweat lodge ceremony. She took me on a vision quest, you know, to do that. And then I went to other sweat lodge keepers and I learned, you know, from them how they do ceremony and I learned that if you're a sweat lodge keeper, you go by those teachings, you go by those practices that resonate with you and make sure that you follow all the proper protocols for it and the power of the purification ceremonies will do its magic, healing you on those four levels, mentally, emotionally, physically, and spiritual. And so I created a sweat lodge.

I used to do a sweat lodge ceremony with my uncle Terry out in Skokale, and he used to invite the students from the university and the faculty from the university to come and benefit from Sweat Lodge if they resonated with him. And so I did help him. he had some community sweat lodges there as well and so I learned a lot from him I was I was his helper and and as a helper you start the fire you cover the lodge you make all you do all the preparations that are necessary and then and then Uncle Terry would come and he would conduct the ceremony so I did that

And my other relative, Shirley Hardman, my cousin, she ran Sweat Lodges too, so I learned from her as well, right? And so the Sweat Lodge was moved from Skokale over to Stolowlo Nation and then gradually Uncle Terry didn't come anymore and I said, surely, so I was it. So I had to continue on, you know, with the ceremonies. And so we invite people from the Correctional Services of Canada, from the university, from schools, from community, whoever needs it, you know, we did ceremony for them. And that's our teaching that we don't accept, we don't, we don't ask for any money. or not, that takes away, you know, that materialism takes away from the authenticity of the ceremony and the one he was running it. We do it with joy and love in our hearts.

We do it with the intention of helping the people, you know, reconnect with who they are and where they come from, what sense of life purpose do they have, what do they need to take their next steps into their, lights, you know, all their guides, all their, all their ancestors, they wind up being in the lodge and the lodge. There's the negative and the positive energies and you learn from both of them in there. We sing our sacred songs during the four rounds. We offer our sacred medicines like sweet grass and lavender, sage, cedar, all of those are powerful, powerful medicines that are put on the grandfathers because we call the lava stones that we bring into the lodge and pour water on them. The steam rises up and everybody gets a purification from that and a connection with spirit

because we're all spirits. We're all sitting in a circle as spirits. And we develop these tobacco ties. We make these tobacco ties at the beginning of ceremony. And it's for the six directions and the forgotten ones. And so we pass those tobacco ties around so people can put their prayers in it. And we put them up on top of the lodge inside

so that there's a place. for the ancestors to watch over us and to pass on any guidance, any love, any, all the things that they have to offer to help the people with what they're going through, you know, they're emotionally disturbed and they help them with that. If they need help, you know, with some physical healing, the purification helps with that. mentally, if they're mixed up and confused, then the ceremony helps them clear their mind so they can think straight and come out, you know, with full of grace, upright and strong, you know, to continue their next steps and into their lives.

So I think that in our territory there are some, but there doesn't seem to be enough, What lodge carriers? So myself, I'm having a challenge to get somebody to take over the lodge because I'm 75 years old right now. And I have to anticipate that when it's my turn to leave, I want somebody else to carry on this practice that people who have participated in it from all backgrounds have benefited. tremendously and like I mentioned before we ask people to respect the protocols you know that are there and there there there are so many teachings that come with the sweat lodge sometimes we do pipe ceremonies you know before we begin the first round some people do it in the third round, in the last round.

It's really important for us to know the significance of a pipe ceremony and sweat lodge, purification. It's important for people to have that understanding so that of all the steps that it takes, you know, to do ceremony so that when, when they participate in it, then they know what to do. They don't feel backwards. They don't feel like, oh, I don't understand.

They go with good intentions. You have to go in with good intentions and good thoughts and good feelings, you know, so that when you go in, you'll get what you need. So sweat lodge is very, very, very. very sacred. The first round is always about taking care of yourself, you know, cleansing yourself. Because if they say if you don't know how to take care of yourself, if you don't love yourself, if you don't respect yourself and feel worthy, then you can't take good care of anybody else, right?

And so the second round is to honor women. It's to honor all the feminine energies of the universe. And the first round, of course, is the eagle, the eagle in the east, asking for medicine, asking for good things to come to help you make a new beginning. The second round is to help you reconnect with the feminine energies. And then the third round is the round for, the men and all the masculine energy. And the Thunderbird spirits come in at that land

and the bear spirit visits us and that kind of thing. And then we go to the north and that's the direction of generosity. It's a happy round. Everybody feels good because they return to a state of wholeness, you know, through ceremony. And we get the teachings of, but, yeah, and we, yeah, so we, we greatly benefit from, from the ceremony. And when we come out of the sweat lodge, when we go into the sweat lodge, we're supposed to bow and humbleness and make our way to where the sweat lodge leader asks you to go. Usually the women are on the south side and the men are in the north side.

Sometimes it's the opposite way around depending on who runs the sweat lodge. And there's a firekeeper who has to be there and make sure that the grandfathers are all heated up. And there's a path between the fire, the sacred fire and the lodge. The sacred fire represents the grandfathers and the fire. That's all masculine energy. And the path is a sacred path from the fire to the lodge when the stones are brought in and they're put in the center. The people in their lodge welcome, you know, the grandfathers to come in and be there. The will-boughs are constructed in a way that,

honors the four directions and the willow boughs are represent a feminine energy because they're really really connected to to the water spirits the willow boughs are the ones that can last a long time without water and and then when we bring the sacred water water in, the water spirits are a feminine energy as well. So you continue to have that balance of masculine feminine energies in ceremony with the sweat lodge. So people ask questions about the sweat lodge. That's fair. That's good. The sweat lodge keeper has to ensure that whoever comes, they need to inform the sweat lodge keeper about any ailments that they may have, any problems that they have. And sometimes they bring tobacco, you know, to the sweat lodge and ask for special prayers.

And so that is given sometimes as well. So like I said, there's that and so much more to learn about the sweatlodge. but it's a it's a good it's a really good ceremony and I'm honored to to have learned you know from a sweat lodge keepers to how to how to do ceremony like that and I'm still committed to to making sure that we can have a sweat lodge that can even be conducted during during a fireman because we have a big oven to contain the fire, right? We have a nice cover for the lodge.

And we want to move the sweat lodge to an area that doesn't have any bathroom facilities. So we want a little structure there, you know, that would have bathroom facilities, a change room, a place to warm up some food and a little dining area. so that all the needs, you know, for those who participate will be taken care of. So that's what I have. That's my vision for Swet Lodge Grounds at Squah. That sounds brilliant. And I think that you talking about it just shows the richness of the culture that I don't think gets talked about enough.

It frustrates me to know that we say indigenous culture. It's always said indigenous culture, but having you describe it really helps. show the depths of the culture and the meaning behind why you do what you do and the meaning behind why people get such a benefit out of it because as a native court worker I got to see a lot of those benefits. And so I'd like to offer an open invitation to you anytime you want to come on the podcast and share more about these cultural teachings. Any time you want it can be next week. It can be in six months whenever works for you because I really think that the information you're sharing is timeless and really lacking in our culture right now.

So I'd really like to thank you for taking the time to share so much knowledge and so much wisdom about the rich history of indigenous people and making it accessible for so many people. Well, thank you very much for that invitation. And perhaps when we get our vision for our squad community, sweat large grounds all in place there, I can invite you there and we can maybe do a podcast there. That would be absolutely amazing. I'd love that. Wonderful. Thank you very much, Eric. Thank you for enduring this heat. I know it's getting very hot. And thank you to the listeners for tuning in.

Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.