Nuanced. - 283. Jason Lum: Mayoral Candidate on Leading Through COVID, Floods and a Housing Crisis

Episode Date: October 13, 2026

Chilliwack councillor and mayoral candidate Jason Lum discusses growth, housing, downtown revitalization, flood protection, First Nations partnerships and non-partisan leadership with host Chief Aaron Pete.Send us Fan MailSupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

My name is Jason Lum. The 2021 Atmospheric River that impacted all of the Fraser Valley, what was it like going through that experience while also being a leader, knowing that other people are being impacted by that? I think I was running around with baby pictures and things like that, trying to keep them. Okay, Jason, you need to leave now. It's now.

It's an order. Reconciliation has become more controversial as of late. I don't think with respect that the idea of reconciliation is controversial. There are some folks that are trying to make this a controversial thing. And I'm not naive to some of the legitimate questions that folks out in Richmond may have with the couch and decision. And those questions deserve legitimate answers. What would you say about the residents of Chilliwack and the Fraser Valley and how resilient they were and how they did come together to try and stand back?

People were going above and beyond for their neighbors. And we needed that. We stand up for one another here in this town. Why I love this place so much and why I want to be the mayor of a place like this. What are you bringing to the table that's different than former leadership? Mr. Lum, what a privilege it is to have you back on the show. Nearly six years later since we started on the Bigger Than Me podcast. Would you mind briefly introducing yourself?

Sure. My name is Jason Lum. I am currently a city councilor with the city of Chilliwack, running to be the next mayor of the city of Chilawak. You've spent nearly 15 years serving the city of Chiluac, and I'm wondering, as you ask residents to make you mayor, what kind of city do you want it to become? Yeah, that's a good question.

So, you know, when I'm out there talking to people, what's become clear is that they're incredibly passionate about this city, right? Some people for different reasons, obviously, but they're a common theme that runs. You know, they love the idea. that we're a city that's it is growing but we're still we still feel small enough that people know their neighbors that people know the neighbors kids that people know uh you know they get in touch with each other they can you know they still wave at each other kind of walking down the

street so they still this small town feel so i think they they never want to give that up at the expense of growth so it's going to be balancing and building on the foundation of, you know, the councils that have come, the mayors and councils that have come before us and managing some of this growth without giving up what makes Chilovac a special place. How do you do that? Well, is your said than done probably?

Really, it's about looking at, okay, what are the things that we need to do as a city? So we need to keep up that infrastructure. We need to keep investing in our roads, our transit, that our transportation. We need to keep building the things that keep our city safe. So our dikes, our drainage, our culverts. We need to keep investing in the services that people rely on. Obviously, the frontline services that protect us, our fire, our police, our first responders, our bylaw officers. And we need to keep planning for the social infrastructure and the cultural

infrastructure that make this place a special place. So, you know, the museums, the cultural center, are parks and playgrounds, the things that people, you know, that get them out of their homes and and into the community and bumping into each other and interacting with each other. So, you know what, it's a balance. And I think it's always a delicate balance. And I think, you know, looking back at the 15 years that I've done this, we've been able to do it pretty well. May I ask, at SARTIS secondary school I attended in 2011, and you came and spoke at our civics class on leadership. What made you interested in wanting to lead a community and be involved in the development and growth of a community? You know, so I've grown up here.

I'm now raising my son here, my wife and I live here. I'm a Sardis alumni. Back when I was going to school there, I probably, you know, I, never really thought about, you know, running for council or getting involved in local government or government at any level. But you start as you grow up and you look around in the community, you start to see the things that you really hold dear. And I touched on some of those things. And you start to think, well, okay, what is my responsibility? You know, how can I contribute? And instead of saying, you know, I'm going to sit around and wait for somebody else to do it, I'm the type

person that gets involved. And, you know, I'd rather just say, you know what, if not me, then who, I'm going to, I'm going to do it. I'm going to take a stab at and try. So I got involved with the Chamber of Commerce. I got, was the president there, I'd been involved with a bunch of different community groups. We were raising money for health care. I was involved in the Stala Development Corporation, which was one of the very early kind of economic development corps that the Stala Nation had put together. So you just had these insight. to all these different community groups and the things that were happening. And then I got invited, you know, when I was successful in my run on council,

I got invited back to Sardis to speak. And my message, I think, has been remarkably consistent. And that's if a guy like me can get elected in this town by just kind of putting your nose down, doing the work, try and stay true to yourself, then anybody can. what? And I think the more we can encourage people who love their community, especially young people, to stay here, to see a future here, the better we're doing. I think that's a, that's a measurement or a mark of a healthy community is the fact that you're still here. You're involved, right? We've known each other for this many years. And you've taken this leadership, this leadership

piece and and I think that's that's that's a it reflects well on the community and I think there are lots of other people out there who who can and will I hope do this role do what I'm doing and and again the more we can encourage people to do it the more we can encourage young people to get involved and stay involved and stay here the better off will be over 15 years I'm wondering what accomplishment are you most proud of that still stands out to you as monumental? Yeah, it's a tough one because there's a lot and it's not just me, right? I mean, it's a team of people that do this work.

And I've worked on, you know, now I've worked, this is so I'm in my fourth term on council. So I've worked with two different mayors and four different, you know, in these four different councils. And our ability to work together to stay true to our own values, But to find a balance and some consensus, not to get drawn into kind of petty arguments and partisan politics and the things that's, you know, other councils and other governments have fallen victim to, to kind of come out the other side and say each and every one of those folks that I got to serve with, I'd love to run into in town anywhere, shake their hand, ask them how they're doing. And it's a great conversation. I genuinely enjoyed the

that I've done with all those folks. And I don't think I've been, I've had to change or felt the need to be somebody different with any of those people, or to be successful. They all saw me for who I was and I got to see them for who they were. So coming out the other side, after 15 years, you know, there's a very high profile politician in town who, who I spoke with many years ago when I was starting to run. And he said, Jason, one thing you're going to find is, in politics, friends come and go, but enemies accumulate. And you know what? I'm now, so we're 15 years in, I'm on the street walking, knocking on doors, talking to people, and I've yet to run into somebody who has, you know, come out of me really hard and who I felt was an enemy,

certainly not. And, you know, I count people across the political spectrum as friends, neighbors and Chiluacians, and that's who we are. To follow up on that, though, the city's gone through so much change. If you look at any region, what accomplishment, what thing has been built that you look at and go, I'm so proud to pass that on to the next generation. Well, the obvious, we're sitting in one of them, right? We're downtown here at 1881. And I was looking back at what my small piece of this puzzle was.

And in 2008, as the chamber president, I was asked to join the downtown, the downtown redevelopment committee by then mayor Sharon Gates. She had struck a committee. I sat on that committee with Pat Clark, one of the counselors from Chilliwack, Ken Hadama. I wasn't on council at a time. But we had talked about what are the pieces we need to put together to build the kind of, to set the stage for the kind of investment we want to see in the downtown. Downtown redevelopment and the challenges down here had been a perennial kind of topic of councils for many, many, many, many years. We went through that. We talked about, okay, well, we're going to need to do some land amalgamation. We're going to need to,

we're going to need to do some environmental cleanup. And we don't want to do it at the expense of the community that was already here. So we had to go around and talk to the folks. that were here that had businesses that were down here, residents that had lived here, and make sure that there was options for them as we moved forward in terms of development. You know, we had fast forward to 2011, I was elected, I was put on the committee for downtown revitalization redevelopment, sat on that committee as we started to put those pieces, made those pieces into reality where council actually stepped up, started to purchase lands, started to to amalgamate, work with the different landlords, pieced it together, created an RFP for a developer,

was in council chambers and put my hand up to vote for the Algar brothers when they've been on this project, and then came back again as the chair of our marketing, the downtown marketing committee, to kind of share this vision with the rest of the world. And that's, I mean, when you walk around down here, obviously, there's so many people come from all over and they're so pleasantly surprised to see this, see what's happening here. What is it like to have an idea and it takes so long to come to fruition and be where we are today and people like, what's going on that like just bear land? What are you doing? Like you get a lot of pushback during the kind of planning phase of like, what's the plan here? What is it going to

look like? Is it actually going to come to fruition? And now it exists. What was that journey like emotionally? Yeah, I mean, it is a bit of, you know, you've got to, you. You got to stay the course. And, and, you know, for, for counsel, some of that is, is, is challenging because I'm a pretty open book way, you know, and I think that's something that I, that I, that I really don't, don't want to change. You know, I, I, I believe in open, honest, transparent communication with the community. And so when, you know, downtown, when some of the things were happening behind the scenes,

because it's involved, because there are contracts involved, because there's legal involved, because there's landlords involved. And we didn't want, you know, we certainly, the principles that we were working by, we didn't want anybody to be left behind. We didn't want to disrespect this place and the people that were already down here. We wanted to, you know,

there was a lot of plates up spinning in the air at one time. But so we knew on council the things that were kind of happening. I knew it was kind of important to kind of stay the course and just tell people, you know, there are things underway and a brighter future is coming. And then as the development plan started to become public, he really started to see the public come alongside and say, okay, yeah, we see what, we see the vision, we see what was happening here.

And a lot of this, like, I mean, we can't take, council itself can't take credit for all of this, having that development partner in the algorithm, and sharing, you know, a lot of this. same values and philosophies as they did. You know, I remember when Dave and Phil and the guys were in, the one thing that struck me, I think one of the first times we had met them, I think they brought their mom along. And I was like, you know, this is, this is, this is cool. We're going to, these are, these are the ones, these are the guys that I like to work. This is a family oriented.

It was people that loved this city as much as we did. And so I think that was so. I think that was it was one of those things that really made me feel comfortable but the folks were getting in business with. I'd be remiss if we didn't talk about the Paramount Theater. Sure. You were the lone vote at the time advocating for it to be kept and for it to find a path forward. And I just think about now, like looking at your platform

and what you're focused on is very much in line with that. How do we keep the culture and the rich history of the community while also recognizing that we're growing and we have new community members coming in and the city growing. Can you just reflect on your decision to vote that way and what that statement makes as you make your bid for mayor? Sure.

Yeah, and I remember it well too because, boy, I was like sweating before that vote because you're a brand new rookie counselor and you're about to vote likely against most of your colleagues and the mayor at that time. But you know what? the thing that, the thing that kind of helped me in that situation was talking to you guys. And I was saying that because you're sitting in front of me, but I remember.

I remember you and was it, Jacob? Yeah, I remember you, Jacob. I remember a Sam Waddington, a young Sam Waddington coming out and spending a lot of time, energy and effort into articulating how much this place meant to them. you know, like I saw my first Star Wars there or I saw my first. And so as much as the building was interesting to me and the opportunities that were, that it potentially presented were interesting to me, it was more about, wow, this thing is like really pulled this diverse group of people

with a lot of young people. maybe this was their first time getting involved kind of in civic politics. And I thought you guys deserved a voice. You deserve somebody to acknowledge like, yeah, you know what? Our voice mattered and our opinions mattered and the things that we're saying mattered. And, you know, that's not to say what's there today is not good. You know, I really appreciate what community services has done. And I know that there are folks that put their heart and soul and livelihood into the development that's there right now.

And I know it's serving a huge amount of people. So, you know, in some ways, maybe we got a bit of our cake and we got to eat it too, because we've got this beautiful development here. We've got the beautiful development. that is the Paramount project right now. And I know we can talk about, you know, the Paramount and what it may have been if it was, if it was re-envisioned. But at that time, there was no private development interest that was ready to step up and do it in kind of the Paramount company or the owners,

what was it, landmark or whoever it was, you know, they were trying to exit out of that as well. who knows what would have come together. Maybe the stars would have aligned later on. But, you know, it's definitely an interesting one. But it was more about the, you know, seeing the outpouring of support from the community and making sure that they understood that they had somebody who was listening to them and that it counted for something.

I'm certain that you will not want to talk ill of any former leadership, but I'm wondering what does that leadership look like from your perspective in moments like that where you have an opportunity to lead conversations with people. You're going to be in a position now to lead. You've seen other mayors do so. What does that look like? What are you bringing to the table that's different than former leadership? Yeah.

You know, and maybe it's, maybe it was at that time me being a little bit, a little bit naive. But fast forward and I'm probably still that naive. I'm probably still thinking about how can we get to a win-win-win outcome on this. And that's the way I look at almost everything. It's like, you know, can we can, I'm trying to, I'm always trying to find an outcome that where people can see themselves and their passion reflected in that decision. And that's not to say that that's not to what any other leaders that I've worked with are doing as well.

I just know how I think. And I, you know, it's also over time you look, you look at some of the challenges and the things that are in front of us. And I think you have to be clear-eyed about, you know, the issues that we face. And it's not, everything is not perfect. And, you know, I don't look at the world with rose-colored glasses all the time. But I am. somebody said the other day, like, I am a pragmatic optimist, right? That's the way I like, I know the glasses have full, but I realize that, you know,

the work that it takes to fill it. So, yeah. One piece I'd also like to talk about the 2021 atmospheric river that impacted all of the Fraser Valley. You told a Senate committee that you were evacuated with your wife and two-year-old child. what was it like going through that experience while also being a leader, knowing that other people are being impacted by that? What does leadership look like during those moments? Yeah, no. And so, yeah, he was, he was won, won in a bet when we were evacuated.

And it was surreal. I also don't want to overstate, you know, the situation because I know that there were. many, many other people who are facing far worse challenges, who did face far worse challenges, traumatic situations than we did. But at that time, you know, we were, you know, trying to run around and take the things that, you know, in our house that, you know, that were very near and dear to us.

And we were frantically stacking them in boxes and putting them away. And I was probably, my wife who is very organized and very on the ball, she was probably putting our insurance papers away and our passports and that stuff. I think I was running around like with like baby pictures and things like trying to keep them put in. But, you know, we went out to the driveway and I remember I was, I had two phones and one I was talking on with the regional. district and one I was picking up calls from from city hall and so ken so the mayor was on the phone and he had said like okay you know heads up like um yarrow is going to be on an evacuation alert um you know we've been watching the the pump station in barotown we've been communicating back and forth with

folks in avastrid uh so just stay tuned and on the other phone i was back and forth with the regional district. I was the chair at the time and we were actively evacuating a number of different places at that time. So talking with them, getting an update from the EOC there, talking with City Hall, getting an update there, trying to pack things in the car and leave. And then a lot of people leaving the neighborhood and we were watching them all leave and a lot of them wanted to stop at the end of our driveway and ask what was going on and trying to give as much of as you can make people feel a level of comfort, you know, and then the phone, you know, I think I got a text and it was very much like, okay, Jason, you need to, you need to leave now.

Like it's, it's now, it's an order. So now you need to leave and we're sending the RC&P door to door. So that's when things got pretty, pretty serious and pretty pretty, pretty hairy. And they were, they were really had a lot of concerns about, um, about Barrowtown at that time. But fortunately, you know, the rest of the story, Barrow Town was not lost. And, you know, there was some, again, throughout that whole week, the very best examples of neighbors in Chiluac helping each other. And, you know, the folks that got evacuated in Yarrow, there's about 13 properties that actually experienced some pretty significant water damage.

And the other, you know, the rest of the community probably got to be able to be able to got some wet crawl spaces and had to clean up. And but probably, you know, objectively got through that a lot, a lot better off than than a lot of the folks on the Sumas Prairie and some of the folks up in the Chilliwack River Valley who are still evacuated to this day. What would you say about the residents of Chilliwack and the Fraser Valley and how resilient they were and how they did come together to try and sandbag? What did you take away from that experience as potentially the new leader of the city?

What do you take away from that time? Yeah, I mean, I've got to talk about that a lot because this was something that, you know, and I'm so grateful that, you know, the people have said nice things about, you know, my little small part in that. And I, you know, during that time, I think we really did get to see the best of one in us. And that's not uncommon. Like you see, you know, around the world. In times of disaster, you know, people come together and coalesce. And, you know, they start to work together and help each other.

And, you know, I wouldn't have expected any less of Chilliwack. But what really happened was, like, as in a lot of cases, Chilawak showed up, you know, in a far greater way than I think many people even expect it. And that whole week and into weeks people were going above and beyond for their neighbors. And we needed that. We were coming out of this time where the seeds of division had been. sown during COVID. And so as bizarre as it sounds, you know, that atmospheric river flood and it's horrible,

and I want to be sensitive about how I say it, because there is a lot of loss and people experiencing loss. But there was also a lot of people who were experiencing kind of hope and reconnection at the same time that they have. hadn't felt hopeful about the world or their neighbors or their neighborhoods in quite a while. And so it gave us all a little bit of, a little bit of an opportunity to say, kind of find ourselves again and say, oh, yes, here, here we are. This is how we are. This is how we behave with each other. You know, we can, we can have differences. And that's okay. But at our core,

when push comes to shove, we stand up for one another here in this town. And that is formed like one of the core values and the things that I, you know, why I love this place so much and why I want to be the mayor of a place like this. What would change under your leadership? You know what?

I think we try and give people more opportunity to do just that, to meet their neighbors, to connect, to have these conversations, conversations that are really important to see themselves in the decision making of the, of the community. You know, as silly as it sounds, you know, I think I look at the staff that we have, like the incredible professionals that they're doing their jobs and really, you know, they're

bringing us good information and it's up to us as politicians to evaluate all that information and weigh it with the other things that we're hearing in the community and make good decisions that help the community move forward. But it's also up to us as politicians and anybody who gets elected is to bring the community together and give them opportunities to work together, to meet each other, to volunteer. You know, I think one of the things that Chilliwack is,

well known for is our spirit of volunteerism and our charitable spirit. And I think, you know, for me, it's to try and create opportunities for that to happen as much as we can. Then you build a foundation, you're building a foundation of trust in one another. And you use that foundation to start tackling some of the big challenges that we're going to have, you know, challenges with growth, challenges with, you know, it was public safety, mental health addiction, the things that, you know, they're here and they're happening in the city and I am very clear-eyed about those challenges, but not at the same case. Nothing that we do at City Hall will replace a properly functioning provincial health care system, right? So we need to do the things here.

that help take care of each other and ensure that people feel safe about it. But we also need to be very clear and focused in our advocacy to the province on the issues that are their core responsibilities. And you do that while not making excuses, but you do that and you ensure that the province understands what is their role, what is our role, and how we can work together to address it. Can we expect a more vocal mayor to the provinces and the federal government? know that the Fraser Valley did not receive enough support in order to really mitigate and

address the flood risks that still exist within the region. Neither government is committed to really addressing that at the core. What does that look like? How do you plan to approach those types of really big issues where you don't get to have the final say on whether the province or the federal government spend there? Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, people will know me that I am not shy of being vocal and persistent. And on the issue of flood protection and protecting our communities, I've been very persistent with successive federal and provincial governments. You know, you do get a bit of a, you get a bit of a microphone and a bit of a loudspeaker

as the mayor versus as a counselor. and just by virtue of the position, you get folks across the province paying a little bit of a different attention to you. So if I am lucky enough to serve as a mayor, I'm looking forward to having that opportunity and utilizing that opportunity. I think, you know, the one thing that I've been consistent on is when I communicate, I communicate respectfully. I don't, I'm doing my best, and I will continue to do my best to not get dragged into the partisanship and the different kind of politics that I'm not, again, not naive exist. But I've understood clearly how to advocate regardless of the political party du jour.

And you know what? I think that serves the people of Chilliwack, the people whom I hope to represent. serves them well, you know. I'm not picking a side if it's a good idea or if it's a good project or it's something, an investment that's good for Chilliwack. Chilawak is the side that I pick every day for sure. Reconciliation has become more controversial as of late because of the Cowichin decision.

Homeowners are afraid that private property means something different now than it did pre-Cowichin decision. DRIPA has become uncertain and the conservatives are pitching repealing it. The NDP, it sounds like want to make some amendments to it. And that can create division in communities. One thing I find really interesting is that communities like Shiakton First Nation and Squyala First Nation don't get mentioned. How would you approach trying to keep these two communities who have been, I think, moving in the right direction. First Nations and non-First Nations have been working together, but those stories don't get shared as much. And so citizens are afraid

and they might not know the work that's taking place with local First Nations. Could you just talk a bit about that. Sure. And you know, again, I don't think with respect that the idea of reconciliation is controversial. I think there are some folks that are trying to make this a controversial thing. And I do not disregard and I am not naive to some of the legitimate questions. that folks out in Richmond may have with the couch and decision. And those questions deserve legitimate answers. I don't think you're going to find those legitimate answers on Twitter or Facebook. And I think as those things move their way through the courts,

it's really important for folks like me to respect that process and not to try and throw in Jason Lum's two cents about what he's feeling today or tomorrow about it. You know what? What's really important for me to do is to keep working on the relationships that I'm very proud that we've been able to build right here in Chilliwack. And I think it's a testament that the fact that we're not in the news, neither is Czech, neither is squala, neither is Kekyll. We're not in the news talking about anything other than how we can support each other to have the province look at the legitimate and significant contribution that First Nation communities, Stalo communities, are having, addressing the housing affordability

challenges here in Chilwaukee in the broader Fraser Valley. And, you know, to have that level of cooperation together is a result of us working over many years together, having communication in the background, talking about sharing development plans with the city and vice versa, being open, clear and frank about servicing capacity and some of the constraints a city might face, and then committing to work them through and not doing it in the media or, you know, like I said, social media or whatever.

And that is a relationship and relationships, because it's not just one. These are unique relationships that you have and you build and you foster over time. And those are ones that are incredibly important to me and to continue to build. you know, the idea or the discussions that are happening around provincial legislation and federal legislation are going to continue. And as we become aware, more aware of them, we will look to to provide constructive and positive feedback accordingly. but those Supreme Court judge is not phoning Jason Lumb and asking what his opinion is on any of these things. But I will speak up if I start to see any of these started to be used as weapons against one another. Anything that's starting to be used is to drive a wedge between neighbors.

That's when you'll hear me start to speak up more about this. And, you know, to be quite frank, that hasn't taken a hold here in Chilliwack. It's not to say that folks aren't trying or there might be folks trying to, but the biggest thing will just be encouraging neighbors to talk to each other, to be open, honest, and transparent about the challenges that they face. And I think we'll be best served if we do that. 15 years of service to the community. and we've talked about some of the challenges that the community has faced. I think your nonpartisan approach to this work,

what does this moment mean to you? What did it mean to fill out the form to put your name forward for mayor? What is this moment meant to you? Yeah, it means a lot. And, you know, at the end of each day, you know, when I'm kind of sitting on the couch or I'm sitting, And I still, there's like a little period of time at night. And I'm very thankful to have where I get to sit on a rocking chair in my kids' room and just kind of reflect for the day.

And it sounds cheesy, but it really does happen. And it's my quiet time. And, you know, every day I look, I'm one day closer to potentially fulfill it. you know, fulfilling this, this incredible kind of adventure that I've been on for the last 15, 20, 20 years. You account the service of the community. And I'm trying not to look at it as like a culmination of that, you know, like or the pinnacle of that. Because you will, you know, if I am so lucky to serve as this mayor, you know, it will be for four years. and no guarantees after that.

But there is a guarantee and the guarantee is that no matter what, right? Even if October 17th at midnight isn't a celebration of me being mayor, it might be a really fun retirement celebration. The next day after or the day after that, it's still, my heart is still with this community and I'll find some way of giving back and contributing.

And just the same as I'll be, you know, if I'm so lucky and I've served a term as your mayor, then it'll have been, you know, a kind of an opportunity to continue to do something that I have loved almost every moment of through this. And I've got to meet so many incredible people. And I think I am so lucky for that. For sure. How can people follow your work?

You know what? Right now it's going to be hard to avoid. It's going to be hard to avoid me if we're doing our job, right? We're out knocking on doors. We're going almost every single community around. I'm accepting every single invitation that I'm getting to meet and talk to folks. And that's from like, you know, whether it's five people in a backyard to 10 people at, you know, at a senior's home or everything in between.

You can also go online if that's your thing. I've got a website, jasonlum.ca. I'm on Facebook and all those other places for sure. Jason, thank you for doing this. Thank you for doing it the first time. I think about you coming to Sartis and that really influenced me. I think about how you approached COVID in some of those posts that we talked about in our first conversation and the instinct to be the adult.

in the room, to try and help people digest really abrupt information, to drink from a fire hose, and to help people kind of process really big moments in our city. And I have a lot of admiration for how you've conducted yourself. I think voting against your council at that time speaks to just your willingness to diverge when the community speaks. And that's who we always need in those positions as somebody who's going to go, if the community is saying this, even if I don't agree, That's why they voted me in is to give them voice, not just for myself, not just to, because I know more. And that's always something I'm very cognizant of, and I see that so much in how you've approached so many different challenges. So I'm very excited for you.

I do think you'll be successful in this bid because you bring all of the correct attributes that people look to and hope for in a democratic process. So thank you for willing to share the time. It's an absolute pleasure. I really appreciate it. I appreciate what you've, what, what, what, what, uh, now this has become in your journey. And I appreciate it having the opportunity to kind of watch it as it's evolved. And I think, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's incredible. And it just, again, it speaks to the type of, not just the type of community that we have here,

but the type of, of people that, that we want to, that we want to foster and keep and call our own. And so I appreciate the opportunity. Thanks. Thank you.