Nuanced. - 30. Derek Epp: Chief of Tzeachten First Nation & Community Leader

Episode Date: August 24, 2021

Derek Epp is a father, husband and the Chief of Tzeachten First Nation. He sits on the Board of Directors for the Chilliwack Chamber of Commerce, he is the Secretary-Treasurer for the Stó:lō Xwexwilmexw Executive, and was elected to the First Nation Health Council. Derek is also the Vice President for the Ts’elxwéyeqw Tribe Management Ltd.Derek Epp is a proud descendant of the Wealick family and is honoured to walk with the Xwelmexw name Weli’leq while serving his community. Mr. Epp received a Diploma in Social Services while specializing in First Nations studies.VIDEO INTERVIEW: https://youtu.be/CT1-Sa_dxloSend us a textSupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

And we're live. Perfect. Derek, it is an absolute pleasure to sit down with you, and I'm hoping you can give a little bit of a brief introduction for people who might not know who you are. For sure, yeah. My name is Derek Epp, Chief of Chiakton First Nation. I'm in my fifth year already as Chief. I can't believe. It's time flies. Yeah, my background is in social work, though. I got my BSW, and I was a social worker at Yothmeath for a number of years prior to being elected and as chief. I've been married for two years I've beautiful son named Jude and my wife's name is Shana uh yeah life's good

I mean we've been we're high school sweetheart so we've kind of went to prom together and yeah we've got a pretty pretty awesome life I have a great great family identical twin my parents are fantastic

my wife's family's an amazing family to be a part of as well so I'm pretty fortunate for for who I am and where I am and you know I'm really I've had a good journey to get where I am, but it's life's been, life's been good. That's awesome. Well, let's get started with the family first.

Cool. And could you tell me a little bit about your background, your family's background, for sure, and your traditional name? Yeah, absolutely. So I get my First Nations lineage from my mother's side. So my dad's German. My mom is actually from the Weillelik family, which is direct descendants of the Chukwaiic tribe. And actually my, my traditional name, Weillelik, comes from one of the four original chiefs from the Chukweic tribe. The four were Wilelik, Siamchis, Yehuelum, and Thalachiatal. So I'm one of the direct descendants of the original four Chukui tribe chiefs. And, you know, I learned a lot about that through just growing up and living on Chiakht in my whole life.

But I also learned a lot of the history of my family when I started post-secondary education. But then even more so, when I got into this role, I had the honor to learn a lot more about my family as well. And yeah, you know, it's amazing to see that I, the Weillelik family has a long history of leadership and within the governance of the Chukwai tribe people. So for me, it's kind of a come full circle and being able to be chief and being a leadership role. It's, you look back and I guess it's in my genetics, you know, and some of the stories, there's a lot of connections to the land, connections to the territory from, that gives me the honor of carrying the name Wiliuk. It connects me back to the Chukweic Valley to Chiak bin and Chiakdal and many of the place names around the Chukwaiic tribe. And, you know, there's a lot of stories that connect my family. One being the bear story where three of my ancestors, the Weelak brothers, went out one day.

And one of the brothers turned into a bear in order to feed us the family. What I've been told is you can recognize the ancestors of the Weillelak family with a black bear with a diamond on his chest. So that's one of many, and it's the one that really is cool to me is that apparently Weillelik the 5th was one of the chiefs, the leaders from the Chukweik who actually had some of the Chukwai tribe people move into the Stietas area, into the valley. And actually one of the designers, if you've been to Stola Nation or Kokelitsa, building 10, the new health building, it's an inverted roof. And I've been told that Weelelelik, the 5th, was the one who,

designed that inverted roof and it was for multiple reasons. One was it actually would serve the purpose of warning the people if people were coming up, if warriors were coming up the Stitas and up the river to come to the Chiquay people and they would warn all the warriors to come out by having water come through this inverted roof and it would make a noise. So yeah and saying that just my name, my family, it connects me to who I am or cultures or traditions or land. So I'm really honored to carry that name and I carry it with pride and and you know one of the things that somebody told me when I was given the name after I got elected in is that it can be taken just as quickly as it's given to you so to respect it to walk with it and not not walk on it so I think

of that whenever you know going into certain situations or meetings and yeah I just I just take that very seriously that's awesome and that kind of echoes what Eddie Gardner was talking about because he kind of mentioned that like female elders would kind of guide you who was going to be the leader of the community and that that's really important because I think that having that check and balance and seeing whether or not the leader is going in the right direction and we're respecting the values of the community

is so important and I think that the farther the leader gets away from the community the more problems you can run into and so that deep connection is consistent throughout indigenous culture. I couldn't agree more. It's interesting. You know, there's always this, when the Harvard business study

came out many years ago and it really drew a line between business and politics. And that happened for a lot of communities. And I obviously respect the autonomy and the decisions of each community. But I really come from the perspective that I need to be really involved in both the business, the operations, the day-to-day operations at Chiak. But also, obviously, my role is more political. But in order to meet the community's needs, you have to know what's going on in the community.

And you can't just be going to political meetings and that. And I respect any chief or delegate who that's their role. And I know we need those political chiefs and leaders. But, and, you know, I carry this belief that I really do need to be involved in the community. You know what's going on. I live on Chad and have for, you know, the vast majority of my life. And being able to have a pulse on what's going on in the community really helps guide me in decision-making. And, you know, being a really empathetic leader is something that I really believe in.

And I think you're bang on with that. Awesome. Well, let's start a little bit with Shiactin as a whole. Can you tell us some of the history where the lands are located? Some of our listeners might have this is the first time they're hearing the name. Yeah, so Chiakton or Chiakdal, it derives from the, it means place of fish weir. So Chiak actually means fish weir and toll means place. So Chiakdal was actually a place where the Chokuea had a fish weir. And historically, so Chiakton is actually located in Sardis. So if you know, veteran promontory road and the savon foods off of veteran promontory we actually own that shopping center and we our boundaries are pretty much from you know we have a they call it the chiactan boot that runs along the mountainside to keith wellison but then our our boundaries are pretty much south sumas to promontory road and all the way to the bailey dump so yeah that's that's pretty much chiactin but again it's more of a place name right so chiactyl is more of a place name along with so many of our well

pretty much all of our Chukweic communities were place names. So, you know, really our connection is back to the Chukwaiic tribe. And that's who we are as people. You know, Chi Acto was a Indian Act band that was something that was dictated to us. And, but we, you know, I think we are fortunate for our location. I think for a lot of communities, location is key. And we're fortunate enough to have our location to where it is. It's a double-edged sword because with that comes development.

And with that comes the progress and the, you know, the society really wanting to live on Chiakton. So it does have its barriers and challenges as well. Yeah, I was actually, that's one of the questions I was going to ask because it's, I'm from Chihuahawthal First Nation. And that's a very rural, not very economically developed community in comparison to something like Chiakton. So I'm interested in your thoughts. What was that like to kind of see the development through your childhood all the way till now and see that direction in that move? because I think Squyala, as I talked to their Jimmy about, is in a very similar boat that economic development seems like the best move

because it's going to help relieve people from poverty. It's going to create jobs and opportunities. Yeah, I mean, it's difficult. Like, I grew up on Chiak and on several acres. You know, my playground was my backyard growing up. And now that land is developed where I grew up, right? And so it's a very different outlook that I had. I was, you know, my childhood, I wouldn't have traded for,

anything. I really was so fortunate to have that land and those values and being able to live on Chiakton when Chilowak was much smaller and grew up on Chiakton when we were really that last community before we went up Promotory and there wasn't a lot going on at promontory at the time. So we used to have cows that came down in my yard. I mean, because there was farms up on Promotory, right? So a very different and they would literally walk down Promotory Hill. So it's a very different outlook now if anybody He walks down promontory road, I fear they'd be run over pretty quick, right? Because now the mass development that's gone on, not only on Chiakton, but around Chiakton. So it's completely changed our landscape.

But economic development has been key to our success. You know, in the 90s, Chiakton was, I hate using these words because a dependent on government funding. Because, you know, dependence seems like it's, you know, that big, that dad kind of overlooking patriarchal. view that Indian Act has done to so many communities that we are 90% dependent on government funding and 10% dependent on own source revenue. Now that is flipped and we are well over 90% dependent on own source revenue and less than 10% dependent on government funding. And that's not a dependency on government funding. Those are simply flow through dollars that any municipality or any government is entitled to. So economic development has enabled us to do that to really meet

the needs of the community through programming and services and, you know, a lot of our taxation and revenue, we pour directly back into the community. You know, we've been able to do projects for the membership and invest in culture, invest in health and well-being. So, you know, like I said before, it's kind of a double-edged sword. With progress comes with development and economic development. It comes more programming for the membership and supports. But it also takes away from that childhood that I grew up knowing and loving and being a part of and really benefiting from. You know, I think I really did benefit from having that kind of quieter lifestyle and growing up being able to access the land and have that imagination and really learn an appreciation

for the land. Yeah, I'm very interested to get into this because it's so complicated and I don't think that it's acknowledged enough that indigenous communities are really caught between a rock and a hard place when it comes to we want to get our members out of poverty. We want them to be able to think longer term. We want them to be able to family plan in a meaningful way where there's always a push back against that. Like when I think of the pipelines, I feel like the part that never gets acknowledged is that a lot of these indigenous communities are utilizing the pipeline revenue to try and get their members out of poverty. So it's a fight between two different ideas. Like you could judge a community for taking on the pipeline and say they don't care about climate change,

but they're actually caring about poverty and trying to help their members and support them in long-term planning. And so I find that this is an important conversation because it gets to the root of some of the largest controversies I think Canada's seen with our relationship with indigenous people. So I'm interested to know a little bit more about how the save on how that whole development kind of came about. And then if you can tell us a bit about base 10. Yeah, absolutely. So the Save On Foods development, actually, really progressive leaders back in the day. So that's something I think Chiak has been really blessed with is having progressive for thinking leaders. Vedder Crossing Plaza, the Save on Foods shopping center, you know, I have to give a lot of kudos to Grand Chief Joe Hall for his vision with that as well.

And there's a particular group that we've worked with since the 90s called the Gulf Pacific Group. And in particular, Bruce Russell and the late Ralph Patterson, two partners. from Gulf Pacific were really visionary for their time in the 90s and saw indigenous communities not as an asset to them, but saw it as an opportunity to support indigenous economic development. So Joe Hall and Bruce Russell really worked on this idea because in the 90s we are governed by ISC and had these policies and procedures that were dictated to us by Indigenous Services Canada. And saying that they, you know, they wouldn't really allow the development for the purpose of economic development back in the 90s and up until, you know,

recent. So they worked around that where they leased the land to Gulf Pacific Group. And after the development was done, you know, Cheyacton up front of the cost for the development and the assets. After the development is done, Bruce Russell and the Gulf Pacific Group leased it back to Chacton for a dollar so that we worked the way around the Indian Act system in order to achieve our economic development goals. So in hindsight, that was probably what, that was is the biggest milestone for Chiakton to kickstart us in economic development. That enabled us to build a new sports facility. That enabled us to build a new Chi Acton Hall. And that enabled us to invest in the program called the Community Assistance Benefits Program because we instilled

a Chiacton sales tax. So there's 5% on all goods and services in the shopping center when it comes to gas, tobacco, and alcohol. So that revenue goes directly back to our membership. 100% of that revenue annually goes back to our membership through a community assistance benefits package that enables our membership to access funds for health, dental, opometry, you know, funeral assistance, sports grants, and really has a package that our membership can access to help support their needs. So, you know, that's a good example of what that, you know, that forward thinking that development has enabled us to do it. it really did kickstart us in this development, this development world. And you see a lot of, like there's Iron Horse, Base Ten, Skynest, there's, there's all,

Malawi Village, there's all these developments going on on Chiakton, and they're not all Chiakton-owned developments. The only one that is a Chiakton-owned or shared development is Base Ten, that's shared between Chiakakkao's and Skalkhael. So that was through a litigation case that we got those 30 acres back from the government. It was the old Canadian forces, bases, land that we were able to negotiate back from the government. When was that? That was done in 2000, I think it concluded in 2017.

Oh, wow. And that was 20 years of Grand Chief Joel Hall fighting and pushing back and going to court. And 20 years to get that land back. And so it was a good, you know, a hard fight. And then, yeah, it was definitely interesting to be a part of. Because I remember that spot just kind of being oddly undeveloped in this, like you're on your way to G.W. Graham or you're passing through and you kind of see this random area that's completely undeveloped. So it's interesting to kind of get the backstory there. What has it been like to watch your membership be able to think longer term? Or what have the benefits been of economic development that you've gotten to see from being a child to now and seeing like perhaps longer term thinking and planning? Yeah, you know, I think there's a lot of benefits that we've, we've had, you know, first and foremost is that that cab program is just fantastic, right? That's enabled so many of us to do activities and that we wouldn't have been able to do.

And, but the other pieces are sports facilities. That was a huge thing for all of our membership as well. And but even that progress, the investment in education has been huge for us as well. And so it really, you know, it's given us the ability to come together as a community because we have the venues to do so. And, you know, we use our hall quite a bit, or pre-COVID, we used our whole quite a bit for community gatherings and coming together to build that sense of community. So I think in a way, that economic development has enabled us to come together more as a community, has enabled us to build that sense of community, which is something that I'm so passionate about is building that sense of community. So for me, it's been a huge benefit to me that economic development has really enabled so many of us to pursue our dreams, pursue what we want to do and to live a healthy lifestyle.

Right, because Shiecton was one of the first, right, to be able to do that. Squyala was, I think, shortly after, but that was one of the pioneers in the Fraser Valley. What has the funeral process been like and being able to have funds for that? Because for those listeners who don't know, like indigenous funerals are like a community. Yeah. It really comes together. And I think that that's very contrasted by European society and how it's very small, very family, very just like a few people

not usually big events but that's usually a huge get together for people and there's a lot of costs to that and I think that it's difficult at least for my community and the other communities I know to be able to put on the events that they want to so what has that been like?

Yeah so I mean it's funerals are always tough right like it's a really tough time and this last year and a half has been extremely tough for our community with some of the deaths that we've had to try to gather in a safe way so that funds just really allows

the families to not to have to worry about the financial burden of a family member or loved one passing when, you know, we'll pay the funeral home directly so that our members don't have to worry about that. And it will pay catering directly or whatever that looks like. So our members just don't have, submit the invoice and we'll take care of it, right? I think it just takes away that stress, that burden of, you know, how do I, how do I afford to give my loved one the proper sendoff, you know, in a culturally safe and significant way? It is expensive. You know, that's the reality of who, you know, our current society is that, you know, the traditional practices of funerals aren't, you know, aren't as easy to pull off as maybe they weren't once were, right? So us being able to enable our members to access those funds, I think it just lessens the burden and the blow of losing someone you love and being able to focus on your family and what's important for gathering as a family, as a community, and coming together to support each other through losing.

using someone you've lost rather than having to have a fundraiser to pay for a funeral, right? Like, it's so sad when you have to see that, that, you know, families are, and it's unfortunate, having to see families fundraised to send a loved one to the other side. And it's a reality, though, right? Like, it's such a reality for so many of our communities. And luckily, you know, us as stala, people, we come together. And that's what we do, right? And so we're there for each other. And I think, you know, we're fortunate enough to have that, that cultural, that those teachings to really, when someone's in need or someone needs the help that we step up and we come together. Absolutely. And I want to move a little bit forward into what it was like for you to become chief.

And who asked you to run? You mentioned that people asked you to run. What was that whole process like? I was young. I was 26, right? And I was still in, obviously, working at Yothmeath in social work. And I was liking what I was doing at Yothneath as well. I was doing guardianship social work.

And I remember it was a few of our chat and advisory committee members who said, you know, they want to put my name for it to nominate me. And at first I said, no. So no, I'm too young. There's no way. Like I thought maybe one day I'll, and I wrote this in essays and stuff that one day I'd want to give back to my community and serve my community in some way, shape, or form. In my back in my mind, I thought one day it'd be pretty cool to be a chief, maybe when I'm retired, right, or something to give back to the community. And so when I got asked at 26, I was a bit taken aback. And I thought, no way. Like, there's no way I'm way too young.

But after talking with some of our members and elders and a few of our community members, it was just like, okay, well, all right, let's do this. So I went to the nomination ceremony. And I think my exact words when I got asked to accept the nomination was, yeah, let's do this. Like really just really not knowing what I was getting myself into. So you fast forward, I think it was six weeks or something like that through the nomination process and get to the election night. You know, I did my research. I've always been somebody who likes to do their homework. And so I dove into a bit of what's, you know, going on in the day to day of Chi Act.

And I've always been involved in the community. So I had an idea of what, you know, what services we provide and maybe. be some gaps that we've we've had but I was never on council I was never and you know never worked for the band I did some some summer programs of the band but I never really was involved in the day-to-day band operations so come election night yeah I won by you know a pretty good healthy healthy amount of votes so immediately I had to resign from my my job and there's no handbook on how to be chief so really it's this you go in and figure it out luckily I had some awesome support networks that I was able to tap into one being Chief David Jimmy and to understand, you know, where do I have to be? What do

I have to do? And, you know, I took about six months to really just learn, learn and understand what this role is all about. And yeah, it was definitely an interesting process to be 27, like just 27. I was turned 27 at March 25th and April 1st I was elected in. So being so young, it was definitely a learning experience. But I can say without a doubt that, you know, was meant to do this absolutely was meant to do this uh i think you know my life has kind of built me up to be in this position and and i i just really you know the creator obviously had a purpose for me can you tell us about what the day-to-day role looks like and what some of those conversations were because i think for a lot of people they hear the word chief but they don't really know is it like a mayor is it like

an mLA what is the where they ask is that a full-time job you know and or what do you do right yeah so i get that. I hear it all the time and it's it's more than full time like it's you know 24-7 basically right you got to be answering text messages phone calls Facebook messages emails you know phone calls and but it's you know a lot of meetings a lot of representing uh being a spokesperson for the community for the membership uh being the political spokesperson but also i mentioned before it's you know I come with this almost as nose in, fingers out approach to Chiakton business. We have a fantastic GM, fantastic managers, but I work very closely with each manager, each department, our GM to understand, you know, what's going on in each department.

Is there areas that we need to think as leadership strategically in how to move us forward as an organization? Can you tell us a little bit about the department? Yeah. So we have our property and public works department, which is our housing and public works. So those two departments I could see branching off into two stand-alone departments in the near future because of our investment into membership housing. We have our programs supervisor, which is growing into its very own large department as well,

and especially post-COVID. I'm really looking forward to the programs we're going to be able to provide again. We have our lands department, which is, you know, overseas all of our lands, you know, development permits, developments on reserve, you know, even our member-owned developments and member housing, issuing development permits and upholding our land code and our laws. And we have a finance and taxation department, which we have a director of finance. Lori Fallis, she's fantastic. And they oversee all the financial operations and work with budgeting with each of our managers.

Then we have an admin supervisor who oversees all of our admin functions. And we have our general manager, James and Tabi. So each department definitely functions independently, but we try to work together as a management team to make sure that, you know, we work collaboratively and work as an organization in a good way. Wow, that is a lot. But please continue. What is it like to try and manage that? And what are some of these meetings like? Yeah, it's a lot to manage the day.

Like the day to day is, like I said, I kind of have that nose in fingers out. So I know what's going on, but I try not to micromanage, right? And definitely there's been times that I've had to slap my own hat and said, Derek, get out of there. Like, that's not your role. But so that's just one of the many facets that, that, of the role of being chief. The other side of it is I have to go, you know, I'm one of the board members for the Chukweic tribe, one of the, you know, members of the Stolination Chiefs Council. I've, one of the political reps, the provincial reps for the First Hitchens Health Authority. You know, you get asked them, one of the part of the Chamber of Commerce, one of the national,

members on the First Nations Finance Authority. You know, I'm heavily involved in the Child Youth Health Center with Dr. Robert Lees and Stephen Esau and all these really awesome, you know, social-minded people in Chilliwax. So, you know, day-to-day, like, that's just probably skimming the surface of all the meetings that I attend and go to. So, yeah, it just, you know, it's amazing each day can be so different in this role. You know, a good example is, you know, I could go from chairing our economic development, board of directors in the morning and then going to a social focused meeting in the afternoon

and then finishing off in the night like tonight i go to the long house to meet with our long house committee to go over a grand opening plan for our long house because we've been unable to do that because of COVID so days are so different which makes it so good though like being able to to have that those days that you're like wow like I did this yesterday but the next day is completely different and it really broadens your your scope broadens your knowledge. It's tough sometimes to literally, especially with Zoom, you know, like if I find with COVID, Zoom is stacked meetings a lot. So I could go from, you know, days like I have meeting from eight to nine, nine to 11, 11 to 12, one to two, right? And it just

goes back to back and having to flick the switch from meeting to meeting that's, you know, so very different. It's challenging sometimes because you really have to catch yourself up, where am I at, you know, in this thought process? Because you have to think, very differently from meeting to meeting. Yeah, that is so true. And I want to get into all those different roles that you mentioned in all those different positions, but I hear a lot, and I'm really trying to discourage this, this whole mentality of just be happy or do whatever makes you happy. Because I think that there's such meaning that can be found in filling all these roles and playing such a different role. And like, it sounds like your days are like hectic and that

you're in so many different places and you're taking on so much responsibility in your community and so I'm interested to know is that fulfilling does that does that make you feel full at the end of the day that you've been able to play such an integral role in your community it does like it really does you know and I think the biggest thing for me is and this is what I really miss is seeing that impacts in our community and coming to community events and being able to see our members thrive and and really benefit from some of the programs we do and seeing people who you know may have been struggling in in the last couple years but then seeing them in a place where they just look so happy and healthy and thinking that maybe

I played a little part in that or maybe we did as Chi Act and played a little part in that that really is fulfilling to me and and even being a part on that those bigger level meetings and you know something of the First Nations of Finance Authority we were part of that that huge deal back east where the first nations took over the one of those the lobster fishing the fishing back east and it was you know three quarter a quarter of a billion dollar acquisition that and being a part of that that being able to review those documents and approve a loan of, you know, excess of 250 million to allow a First Nations community to really be a part of the economy on the East Coast.

And rather than having to work around and go to the government and beg for licenses and whatever, no, they decided to take over that market. And being able to be a part of that absolutely is a pretty cool thing to be a part of. And, you know, and that's just one example of so many that you look back on and think, you know, when you reflect, It's pretty cool to see some of the stuff we've done. I've done outside of the scope of Chiakton, but then I look at the last couple years of what we've been able to do at Chiakton.

And, you know, we do an annual report every year back to our membership. And I always take that time to reflect on the year, reflect on our accomplishments. And it's pretty amazing to look back in the last four years and see what we've done for our membership. You know, so many investments in culture, we've carved traditional canoes, we built the longhouse, We built a new social health building. And, you know, we're in the midst of building a 23-unit affordable membership housing development that took four years of going to two levels of government. They were probably sick of me.

But I'd go twice a year at the very least to both the province and the feds, present her updated designs, get them excited about this project. Tell a story. Every time I went, I'd tell a story about the positive impacts that this housing development is going to have for our membership and what we're trying to achieve and and you know it paid off you know we've been able to secure a lot of funding for these projects we've done because of that relationship building and you know I'm a huge believer in that so yeah looking back and seeing what we've done for chiacton and what I've done being able to do outside of the realm of chiacton it's it's always a cool

process to reflect back on that that's awesome what would you say to somebody who's like my dream would be to work from like 10 to 2 and do nothing and just sit around all day. Like, what would you say to that person? Because it sounds like you get a lot out of this. And it seems like people are missing the point when they're trying to minimal work possible, maximum amount of pay, that mindset. Yeah, I mean, hey, if you can work 10 to 2 and make a good living, good for you. But the reality is that that's not really reality for so many people, right?

and are you getting the most out of your days, your life and what you want to achieve, right? So, you know, I would say, you know, maybe get uncomfortable a bit. You know, think about outside of your comfort zone. If you're okay with a 10 to job and then so be it. But if you really want to get uncomfortable and look outside of your bubble, right, and then think about a bit outside of your bubble, then I can say with, you know, pretty confidently that it'll be worth it, it'd be worth it. Yeah, absolutely.

Now let's get into some of the roles that you play and let's just go through, you listed a bunch of them, let's just go through them all. Oh, okay, yeah, obviously, so there's a few roles I play in Chi Acton, obviously the chief. I chair Economic Development Board of Directors.

Outside of Chi Acton, I'm part of the Chukhoic Tribe executive and one of the board members for the Chukwai tribe. I'm the vice president of the Chukwai tribe. I also am on the board of directors for the Chilohac Chamber of Commerce. I'm one of the provincial health reps for the First Nations Health Council and the interim chair for the members society there. Like I said, I'm one of the board members for the First Nations Finance Authority and the chair of the audit committee there.

Okay, so your role with the Chalkueik tribe, did I say that correctly? Yeah, yeah, perfect. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah, so, you know, a fantastic organization, something that I think, all of us who are on the board are really proud of, you know, we've done well in both economic development and rights and titles. So we have two separate arms for the Chukweig. And like I said, one's economic development. The other one is rights and titles based. So, you know, Chief David Jimmy is the president of the Chukwai tribe. He's the one that takes on a lot more

of those day-to-day operations, the negotiations, whatever it might look like. A lot of our role is really asserting our rights and titles. So as a collective, the Truquoic tribe hold our collective rights and titles from seven different communities. So, you know, Chiaton being one of them. And yes, we work collaboratively on, you know, if land dispositions, if the federal government is disposing of land, then we get involved because it's our right that, you know, federal land was supposed to go back to the rightful owners, right? So we get involved when it's in our territory to step in and make sure that, you know, federal government doesn't dispose of land without our consultation or, you know, our compensation

to us as well. So that's a big role we play. We also play a big role. And you see the, I'm sure we've heard of the big Bridal Veil Mountain Group project, the gondola, all that that plays in. So then, you know, proponents like that have to come consult with us when it's in our territory. So then we go through various, you know, traditional use studies, you know, environmental studies, archaeological, like all that, you know, these kind of studies to see the impacts on our territory if a project is coming into our traditional territory. And then ultimately we have to go through like a review and approval or denial process of that. So there's a few of the functions that we at the Chukwai do. It's, like I said, it's a really awesome organization to be

a part of and we do a lot of cool work. Like one of the examples is there were some burial mounds found down Cholac Lake Road that is obviously, some of our ancestors. And those were discovered. And so we've been through a lengthy process of actually retaining that land back and making sure we protect that land so that nobody can go in and develop or dig up those burial mounds because they're our ancestors there. So when was that discovered? A couple years ago now. About three years ago, I think. It's been a length, about a three, four year process that we've been in with the government on the province and negotiating a, you know, a settlement or making sure that we protect that land. So we're just finalizing it and really awesome.

and process and well not awesome it's been challenging but yeah it's just something that we're really proud of and being able to protect those those burial mounts how old are they are oh i can't remember like the exact dating you know thousands right like a couple things like they're old yeah so it's it's really cool to be be able to do that and know like we occupied that that that territory and that's proof that you know we've been there since time immemorial and um and nobody can say otherwise you know that's proof that we were here well before anybody else. That is one of the things that I think I've gotten a lot out of this

is there's like I grew up with the disconnect from my culture but being able to hear these stories from Andrew Victor and from Eddie Gardner about the relationship with the mountains and thinking like today I can't imagine getting anywhere without Google Maps or

without Apple Maps and thinking that they used to use these stories to be able to remember their locations and where they were and you would see like the three peaks and you would know the three sisters story and you would have all of this in your mind so you could navigate because like walking places today is so we're not used to it we're not used to having to travel without a trailhead that gives us an exact mapping of where we are and that's how people traveled and we used the waterways to get around and just understanding that that is

how it's been forever and it's only real recent that we've had all these tools to navigate and things have become so much easier to figure out where we are and stuff, that we're starting to lose those original stories. Yeah. And so I think that that's so valuable to hear. Do you have any stories you can share in regards to Chiakton and your connection with that land? Yeah. You know, Cheacton originally was river, right? Like the river ran through Cheyacton, and that's where, like, that's why that place of fishware, that meaning is so, you know, important to us as well, is that pretty much Promontory Road was, was all the Chilock River. You know, it ran through. It, it, And if you can, you can actually, when Iron Horse was, when they tore down all the trees on Iron Horse, you could see where the river actually ran.

You could see the dig out. I don't even know if people know that. I don't, we took pictures. Like, we documented it. We did some archaeological findings. We actually found a pit house on that land. And, you know, a really cool experience. I learned a lot through that as well.

So the river kind of branched off and went up towards and it essentially had these offshoots and the river ran. straight down Vedder Road and out to the Fraser and our people used to canoe actually from the Fraser up basically Vedder Road and then would get to the Chilliac the river and it was quite rapidy so they couldn't really canoe up so they would have to lock up so that's where Chiakto and Stitas like Stitas is just by the Vedder Bridge basically that that's that the meaning of the place of Stetaz and so Chiakto played a big part in that and that pithouse actually when working with the developer. A lot of developers could say, oh, I'll protect that land, and that's it. We were really fortunate to work with diverse development groups who did most of Garrison

Crossing, has done Rivers Edge, and they're now doing Iron Horse on Chiakton. And instead of being pushy about only protecting the pit house, they went the opposite and said, well, let's protect a larger area and actually make this more of a learning opportunity. And of course, you know, probably use a part of their marketing, whatever, but they took a different approach to protect that pit house and do an education piece around it and do more of a natural playground around that pit house to encompass bit more of those, you know, wooden features and a lot more of that, you know, a different outlook that I think a lot of developers would have taken. So pretty cool to know that, you know, are likely my direct ancestors were one of those people

that occupied that pit house on Chiactyl. Yeah, so it's... That's brilliant. Yeah. Can you tell us about working with First Nations Health Council? Yeah, I mean, that's a fantastic role. I've been there now four months, I think, or something like that. And right away, I got kind of pushed into the interim chair role for the member society.

And it's a very intensive role. It can be busy. But it's pretty cool to be a part of that larger... shift in the transformation of the health care system for First Nations. You know, I have a big passion for that. I'm no, by no means I'm an expert in health, but I just find there's so many resources that we can tap into to help guide us in our decision making. And I'm really looking forward to what we can do in these next couple years. It's a three-year term. And I, you know, work right off the hop. My goal is to work very closely

with their health directors. They're the ones that know what needs to be, you know, what needs change in our health care system for First Nations people. So yeah, it's more of a political role. That one is definitely more of a political advocacy rule. A lot of work's done in our region. So I'm one of the Fraser Salish regional reps, one of three. That's me, Andrew Victor, and Willie Charlie. And there's 15 reps across the province. So I'm one at 15. So there's a couple of different tables. There's our regional tables. Or sorry, go back. There's more of our Stalin. I'm the rep for the Stalin Nation Chiefs Council. So I work close. with my Stollah Nation Chiefs Council Chiefs and our Stalo Health Director, Kaloa,

and then work larger at a more regional level, so for the entire Fraser region, and then work at more of a provincial level with the 15 of 15, where we work on, you know, bigger issues that can't be tackled in each region or each community. Right. And I'm hoping we can just do a little bit. I know you're not an expert, neither am I, but on the difference between First Nations Health Authority and how that is, impacts our communities because other provinces don't have a provincial health system. So we're the only province in Canada to have a provincial First Nations health system. And definitely, like, there's challenges, of course.

We had this conversation maybe a week or two weeks ago at a meeting is that, you know, a lot of others, there's always questions around, you know, are we doing the right things? Or is, are we implementing the right health services? But I had to remind our table again that we're so infants in this health. world, right? We're 10 years in. Fraser Health has been doing this for for decades, right? So we're still learning the health care system and what works best for us. But I think we've been doing a pretty damn good job so far of improving health services for

our members and our communities. And we're always going to evolve. That's the reality of any organization. It's meant to be a living tree. You're meant to always grow and evolve with the needs of each community and the needs of each each region and the province and so is it ever going to be perfect no and i you know i can fully admit that are we trying our best to to make sure we're doing what's best for our communities absolutely and i i think you know we all have the right intentions and we're there because we love we have a passion for uh changing the socioeconomic and health of our of our members in our communities and i think just bringing a legal lens the way our court system is set up is where

you try and resolve things on the local level first and then you work your way up. So you have your Chilawak court and then it moves up to the Supreme Court, then it moves up to the Court of Appeal, then it moves up to the Supreme Court of Canada. So you don't start with the federal level, which is what all other provinces have to deal with. They have to go straight to a federal body that regulates and tries to guide things. Where here it's like I've worked with system navigators from First Nations Health and that's such a privilege because these people know the landscape of health and how to get access to funding dollars for indigenous as clients and be able to help them navigate the system and make sure that they have the services

they need. And I can't even imagine what the world would be like without those individuals. You know, very simple examples, we were able to, the health authority with the heat waves, our elders are eligible for air conditioners through the First Nations Health Authority. Right? So, like, you wouldn't, if you were bound by the federal health regime, I don't think that any other province would have been able to really pivot and invest in air conditions for elders because of the heat wave. So, and air purifiers and stuff like that, right? So with the smoke and all that.

So, yeah, I think it gives us the autonomy to shift when we need to. And with COVID, the same thing. We've had to shift, obviously, our priorities through COVID. So, and pivot, but I don't think that every, you know, if you're having direct funding or services from the federal government, I don't think you would have been able to do that. I can't believe that you just said that, that there were air conditioners. and air purifiers made available because I was, we have air conditioners and air purifiers, but growing up, we didn't.

And that wasn't even a thought in our minds. And just when we were going out, like, I was going to the leisure center and I saw kids playing outside in when it was like 11 out of 10 level smoke. And it was just like heartbreaking to me because I'm sure these kids are out there because it's too hot indoors. So they're going outside to try and play. And they're paying significant detrimental effects to their health. and their lung health and there's so many consequences and it just felt like that wasn't acknowledged by most people or being discussed or something that was popular on social media or any avenues that this is something that like you can pay real con you can get lung cancer from

inhaling that level of smoke so I'm really grateful to hear that and I didn't even know that about First Nations Health Authority and I think the other part is the access to counseling is something I don't think many people realize because as a native court worker I would often say like oh do you have any family lineage, who've gone through Indian residential schools, we can get you counseling. And there isn't a set determined, like, you get six weeks of counseling. It's open-ended. And so that's a great opportunity for someone to be able to begin to address their personal traumas in a meaningful way that's not in a group that you don't have to share in some big way, that it can be private, and you can process that yourself.

And I think that that's really where the rubber hits the road and where real difference can be made is when I was able to pull up the sheet from First Nations Health Authority that listed the available counselors in the Fraser Valley and say, you can reach out to any of these people they accept First Nations Health Authority funding so all they have to do is put in an application and you get to go. You choose the counselor, you choose when you want to start,

you choose how long you're going to go for and you can start this journey yourself. You just have to let me know how many sessions you've attended or have your counselor send a letter, but this is all for your own benefit and you can do this at your own pace and I think that that is so freeings

for so many people who feel put on a schedule. Like if there's a treatment program and you have to attend 10 weeks and you have to attend each week. And if you don't attend all the weeks, then you're kicked out of the program. That that can be discouraging for somebody who's struggling day to day with finances and with having shelter and stuff like that. That access to just one counselor, your terms for your length of time is such a difference for people. Absolutely. And I'm a huge believer in counseling. Like myself, I've been through several years of counseling as well.

And so we've taken that F&HA program. and actually, because there tends to be some weightless as well, which is unfortunate, but then we decided as Chiakton to actually, we've contracted out three counselors as well to tap into those, and that's, you know, part of my passion is investing in social and health programming and what I'm trying to do more at Chiakton as well. And so now we've actually almost taken that program in-house. So now we manage that we have a staff member who, if members want to see a different clinician who aren't, you know, enaptor, I don't know the FNHA process, we have a staff member who

walks them through that. So we try to break down as many barriers to our members to receive counseling as possible. We've set up a little office at one of our sports field buildings for the counselors to come. So our members have a safer place to come and meet a counselor. And they know that they can come to a Chiak and safe space to talk to somebody. And so, you know, but if our members don't want to access those three counselors, then of course we support them, whoever they want to see. And, you know, I think they're, FNHA, there's some parameters around. If you have, have historical impacts from residential school, yeah, your window of counts and services are up to like, I think, 60 hours or something like that. If you don't identify as impacts from

residential school, which I think every single indigenous person does, then they allocate, I think, 22 hours every year. But if there's any shortfalls, then we've made a mandate at Chiatin to cover those differences. And if, but those are for only status members, right? for FNHA, which is unfortunate so far. But we have a lot of members of Chakhton who are non-status as well. So that's why we created this program so that it's not just status members who can access that. It's all of our members who can access counseling services

and we'll cover the bill for the members who are non-status from Chakhton for the council and services. Wow. And that kind of dovetails in. Can you tell us a little bit about the health center that you guys had, the Youth Health Center. Yeah, I know. That's, you know, that's again working with Dr. Robert Lees. I can't say enough good things about that man. And he's the work he's doing and really is forward thinking.

So he approached me maybe about a year or a half or maybe two years ago now. And just asked about, you know, the possibility of how do we get a youth health center on the south side of Chilliwack? There's one at Stalow. There's one at the Neighborhood Learning Center out of Chilawak Senior. But there wasn't one on the direct south side of Chilliwax. So when he approached me, I said, well, hey, we got the office space. Come use Cheakins, free of charge. Just use it.

Well, you know, none of our staff complained about, we opened it up at 3 o'clock. So all of our staff got to go home an hour early on every Tuesday. So nobody complained about that. I mean, why not? And also, we're supporting a good cause. And also breaking down the barriers to First Nations to access counseling and clinical and health service. and mental health services for free in a place that they recognize. You know, they can, you can walk into the sign-up tops as Chi-actal, you know,

lands and governance office. And, you know, it's a very welcoming space. So it just creates that comfort level for so many indigenous youth. And, you know, it's been successful. We've had an increase in drop-ins, increase in clientele who access the services. And again, like, I can't say enough about the program itself. I think it's low, it's low barrier and meets the needs. Every door is the right door when you walk through those doors.

And, you know, the clinicians, the counselors, they're just fantastic people. And I can't say enough about the service they provide to all of our community, indigenous and non-indigenous. And it's, I always come from this lens of inclusivity rather than exclusivity. You know, I think, yes, there's a time in place to have programs specific to just our indigenous population. But I also believe there's a time, there's a lot of times in places where we, create an inclusive environment for services for all to to really provide a level of services that, you know, I think historically that's what we would do, right? We would do that. We would help others and that's who we are as Stalo and home with people. We're here to help. And

I think that's something that is just so fantastic about this program. And yeah, I just can't say enough good things about it. That really leads into my question, though, about reconciliation, because I do think that it is a both sides thing. And I think that the important thing to understand is I think indigenous culture has so much to offer that I think that too often it's used as like lip service that like, oh yeah, let them like paint and let them do their drawings and stuff. And it's like it's so much more than that. And I think that the one that I've constantly brought up is the example of elders that I think that Western society really has a problem looking at their seniors as resources as knowledge keepers. as people to go to, to learn more and to have a greater understanding. And Rebecca and I were just looking at a website that was explaining that right now

at the top of almost everybody in North America's priority list is more money. But the thing that kind of dropped off and people stopped caring about is having a philosophy of morality, of having an understanding of community, of values. And I think that that's when you cut off the elders, when you cut off that feeling of connection, that the grandparents guide the young children and help them develop, I think when you start to cut that out, people kind of get lost

and they have less of a direction on what is the meaning of life. And I think that that's often answered when you're helping others and when you're supporting others, that that meaning of life is answered. Absolutely. And I think, you know, a key piece to me, maybe I'll digress and come back. The key piece to me of reconciliation is it's education, right,

and understanding and educating yourself. But going back to that, you know, that notion of family, and elders and yeah the importance of that family unit and I think that those those teachings instill empathy and so many of us as indigenous people and I heard a heard another snippet of a podcast talking about the shift in leadership needs to go to more empathetic leaders rather than you mentioned like that bottom dollar everybody's biggest priority is making making more money going farther in life and you know putting themselves up on this pedestal when Really, that's not how, I think, in order for us to go in a direction that us as a society need to, we need more empathetic leaders.

We need more members who understand humans, who know that there's challenges in life. And I think a lot of that for me derives from who I was, you know, how I was raised. I was raised very much when I reflect back in a traditional sense where I had my aunts and uncles on the other side of me with my cousins. And we all grew up basically as one big family. You know, we'd see each other every day pretty much. And we had, you know, especially my one, my aunt and uncle, my cousin, were literally about 75 meters from us. We had two moms, two dads, two fridges, you know, like this is their two households. This was how we were raised.

And I think that really instilled so many values that I look back on and maybe who I am today. It may be the leader I am today. But then you circle back to like this reconciliation notion of, and I think, like you said, there's so much to be learned from the indigenous culture and our traditions. that can be incorporated into mainstream societies, services, and programs. And I think truly it would enhance so many of these programs and services. And coming from that lens that we have to offer, I think, would just benefit, yeah, the systems that we all are, to a certain extent, still oppressed and dictated by when it comes to social health, you know, well-being, that there needs to be this mentality shift and taking in some of the value. is that us as indigenous people hold. And where that begins is education is understanding.

And I think to me is the simplest form of reconciliation is that if you can take the time to educate yourself and understand a bit of the histories of indigenous people in Canada, but also globally, you can see indigenous people across this planet have been oppressed and have been attempted to be assimilated since. since contact in any of these, any of these countries and regions. So for us here, I think the biggest piece is education, understanding, so that you don't judge. You know, you think twice before you see an indigenous person who's struggling and you think, instead of thinking, well, there's another indigenous person just living off the system,

which we hear so many times, maybe you think differently is, I wonder what that person went through. You know, I wonder what the impacts of residential school has had on that individual's life. Did they have parents who knew how to parent? You know, did they come from a household that was filled with trauma and abuse? And maybe they're there because of reasons that you probably can't even fathom. You know, some of the trauma that so many of our indigenous people have gone through that, like so many people can't even compare to it or can't even, you know, and it's okay that some people haven't gone through that.

And it's perfectly okay. but at least take the time to understand that some people haven't lived the life that the privilege that is so many of us have. Yeah, I don't disagree. And I think that you can lay out a timeline of like my grandmother goes to Indian residential school. She gets confidence, a sense of self, all destroyed from her sense of self. And then she has children. And she's not able to give those children the same love and affection and support and kindness and culture. and understanding that a person who didn't go through all that trauma

and never had a counselor to talk to about it, she has children. Those children struggle to, again, identify with the culture because there's this huge disconnect now. And then they have children, and that's now today me and likely yourself, where we're now realizing and seeing the lineage upwards and go, how can we fix this? But there's been two generations of people

who have not had the access to the internet and access to counseling and access to resources and access to information that our other generations had. And being able to understand that that wasn't their preference. If they could have gone to counseling, if that was a resource that was provided, likely they would have way sooner than now. And just being able to have that understanding of where people are at,

and it's very similar to a World War II survivor who's living in our society now, who's struggled to share the traumas that they've gone through. It's very similar. And we can understand where veterans don't want to share their war stories, And so we have to have that same level of empathy to people who went through Indian residential school where, again, we now know that children were regularly murdered, put away, and not taking care of in meaningful ways. And I think that that's an important piece to bring in. And I think that sharing that with the broader community and allowing these conversations to happen is so important because what I've been getting a lot of is a lot of European people saying, like, we don't know who to talk to because a lot of people aren't ready to talk.

And it's not like that's the first thing you can say to an indigenous person when you meet them. So it's, I think we're at this time where, like, we know the conversation needs to take place. And that's what I'm trying to do here is give people access to knowledge like yourself, where they can start to think about the issues. And they don't have to email you and you have hundreds of people email you saying, hey, let's meet for a coffee so I can understand things. Yeah, the Internet's at your fingertips. Right. There's so many resources about, in the history of residential school that, you know, type it in in Google. and you can find out a lot more information

and you're right, like, how can you walk up to anybody and say, hey, did you go to residential school and do you want to tell me about it? Like, that is, you know, I mean, yeah, so I think the simplest form is just education and really, you know, trying to build more understanding and empathy and, yeah. Can you tell us about the Stolo Chiefs Council

and can you lay out the framework for what Stolo is because it's, again, one of these very complex topics because there's a political aspect, there's a governance aspect, there's just being stolo as a person. So you got a, how much time do you got, no? You may need a Venn diagram to figure this one out. But the, yeah, so Stololoneation is, you know, 24, four bands, right?

24 communities make up Stolow Nation. Of that, there's, there's been splits along the way, you know, back in the 90s, there were, the Stollonation was a collective of the 24 bands, some went independent and there's a split now there's the Stalo Tribal Council

and the Stolination Chiefs Council and Independence so if my memory is me correct I believe there's 10, 10 of us at the Stolination Chiefs Council

10 communities there's eight or so at the Stola Tribal Council Can you tell us which one's there? Yeah so it's Chiaqao Yakaquiaz Skwala

Atchelitz I believe it's Shway Village Squaw Quapult Matskwee and La Camel I think I got them all

Yeah And I think Swali's kind of On both Swallies is kind of funny Like we don't We don't close our door

To any community Who wants to come meet with us either right So I think Sowali is part of the Stolar Tribal Council But they also come to some Our Stolar Nation

Chief Council meeting So it's not like If you're affiliated with one You're not allowed to go For us at least You're not allowed to go to the other But then there's the Stollo Tribal Tribal Council

Which is more of the communities in the East. And then there's several independent bands who have decided not to affiliate with the Staling Nation Chiefs Council or the Stahl of Tribal Council. And I believe there's, I don't know, six, five or six of those bands, which is like Stalis, Yale, I'm pretty sure like Kate C, Quatlin are all part of the independent bands. So yeah, it's a complex makeup. But we all have the 21 bands or signatories or have an interest. in the Coqualeza grounds. Same 21 have an interest in the St. Mary's and Pequilis grounds and mission there. So a lot of what we do at the Stala Nation Chiefs Council is more just bigger

political issues. We come together to discuss, you know, that's where I report to on health. So that's a lot of what we do at the Stallion Chief Council is around health initiatives. And that's where we do a lot of engagement around. And I'm trying to do more engagement around making sure that I work with the Chiefs and the communities on how to improve health services. But you know, it's definitely more of a before big, you know, AFNs, like Assembly First Nations or big political meetings, when there's votes for elections for like national chiefs or stuff like that. Typically, we try to come together, have a discussion on, you know, concerns or topics or resolutions or whatever that we need to support or, you know, or oppose or whatever it might

look like. So it's more of a political body more than anything. But then we also oversee were the oversight body for the Stoller Service Agency. There's Board of Directors for the Stoller Service Agency, but they report to us as well. So that's basically the main functions of the Stalinger Nation Cheese Council. And yeah, I always have this, you know, idea. Yeah, I'm an optimist. I would love to see the Stalingation unite again in one way, shape, or form.

Not in a way of like, you know, I think a lot of people are worried that if we unite, we may take away jaws for chiefs or whatever it might look like when I think there's just an opportunity for us to work together on larger political issues and be strong in our in our stolo historically has always been one of these strongest political entities when stalo in the 90s 80s and 90s when they walk into a room people knew we were there right and so I love to get back to that that point where we come together in unity and work more collectively on bigger political issues

Right. And can you contrast that with the tribal council? Yeah. So the tribal council is, oh, you mean solid tribal council? Yes. I don't know. Like that's where, you know, that's where the disconnect is. Where we do want to start to try to work closer together. But again, that's where a bit of the disconnect is is, you know, where can we begin to carve out those relationships together again? Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about the landscape from your perspective of the different communities that you see? Because I think that that is where people get confused. and lost on what's going on and why is there this disconnect? How does this all come about?

You know, I think it came about. The original, I think the original split, just political views and really it just leaves some really strong-minded leaders and it just came about in a time where politics weren't, they were a little messier. And I think, I think a lot of it has to do even with that dividing concrementality that the government has always you know, forced indigenous people to work through. You know, they've always dangled funding in front of everybody and really said, well, you communities fight amongst each other. And that's, I think a lot of it has derived from that is where, and that's where now, like,

there was tribal council funding or there still is. And so that's like this funding, I think a lot of it comes back to that divide and conquer mentality that the government's always instilled in First Nations communities, is that there's a certain amount of funding, but only, a few of you can get it. So fight amongst yourself for it. And I really do think that a lot of the divides have come from that mentality. And it's unfortunate. It really is. Well, because you don't see that with like Fraser Health. They don't have to compete with other health authorities in order to get basic funding. That's Fraser Health. That's it. There's no other entity, right? Yeah.

And I think that that just, that goes into where I feel like there's this confusion among my European friends where they're like, well, we don't know what First Nations people, want. And it's because we've got so many different small communities. And I think David Jimmy did a really good job of explaining the benefit, but also the problems that that brings, which is that you have a chief and council for so many communities. And getting everybody on the same page is extra challenging. And so I'm interested to hear what your thoughts are. Absolutely. Like, you know, you know, probably not everybody would agree with me on this, but I think at one, at one day, it'd be fantastic to come together as a chukwik and have, you know,

one council system and maybe I'm not going to be the most popular person for saying that but I could totally see us one day you know coming together and unifying and and you know having one council system because I think in BC there's 203 First Nations I can't remember there was a there's about 2,000 delegates of chief and council systems in in BC alone for 203 communities I mean that's a lot of people elected in to govern our communities and It is difficult because the reality of it is that you look at the bands like Chiakton, Squyala, you know, you look at even like, you know, Squamist, Tuasin, big communities who have done very well. So, yeah, you get to this point where you don't want to share, you know,

and that's the reality is that like so many communities have built up. And I get it. Same with Chiakton from our perspective. We spent a lot of resources in time building Chiakton as an organization in a community to get to where we are. so the idea that we would have to share those resources and share those revenues with other communities is tough for some of our members and our leadership to really wrap their heads around but is that like is that the right thing to do right is that the right thing to do when historically we were chukweik we weren't chiakkiy's we weren't skalka keil so yeah there's so many of these small communities that um i feel bad for because they just they aren't in the same position that we are and at no fault of the

own, right? It's, yeah. I couldn't agree more. And I think that even if people want to disagree with your point about uniting and having one in the council, even if they want to disagree, they need to come to the table with a better solution to the problem. Because for me, I see the exact problem you're describing, which is I feel like once you have that economic development, once you have money coming in that isn't from the government that you know is coming in consistently that's revenue generating, you're able to think longer term. You're able to build community plans. You're able to to think about seven generations ahead. Totally.

And I really feel like with my community, and I might get flack for saying this, we received finances because of the Seabird Island settlement. We received, each member received a fair bit of money. And to me, none of that money went into economic development, rebuilding the community, making sure that long term we're able to think about seven generations ahead.

And so you have this deep disconnect between communities like yourself that are, becoming self-sustaining and becoming just like a prominent, like a regular community to everybody else, where like I know people know the name Sheact and I know that they have that respect for that community and they have that same respect as for Chilliwack or for Abbottsford or for Agacy.

And that's missing when nobody knows the name of my community. Nobody knows what I'm talking about when I describe it. And I know my members aren't doing as well as I'd like to see them doing. And again, that is of no fault of their own. And when they chose to vote for $15,000 cash, in their pockets rather than putting that into the band. I totally get why because it's hard to see what that's going to do. Oh, I'm just going to give all that money to the bank. How is that going to help me today? Back to chief and council. They're going to what are they going to do with it? Yeah, exactly. What has that been like for you to have perhaps a more a community that's able to think forward into the future where I feel like my community, they they don't get the opportunity to say, what is our 20 year plan? Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a fantastic question. And, you know, for for us,

We do a very small, you know, distribution every year for Christmas, $600 to all of our members and $800 to our elders. So could we do more, probably? But is it an area that we feel is the best thing for a buck? Probably not, right? Like you said, is $15,000, you know, the reality is I hate to see the negative impacts of that as well, right? And that's the reality of, I'm not, like,

I, you know, I wholeheartedly believe that there's a lot of people who would do a very good job with that $15,000 and do, they provide more for the family. But there's the opposite end is the people who may not have healed from residential school or the history and the trauma who are still suffering with addictions and mental health issues and concurrent disorders and who may not make the right decisions with those funds. right and so for us on our end like we see the investment into culture into services and the programs into infrastructure such a you see the outcomes more right you can really tangibly see the difference it makes in people's lives and when you do a large distribution you don't see that same you may see a new vehicle you may see a new something but you don't see the tangible um return right your return on that investment isn't the same as if you did it in the form of program services and

infrastructure. But I get it. I get it. It's such a tough one for those smaller communities because we know the reality is there's so many families that struggle and you know that $15,000 probably did help a lot. But I also see where, and you go back to that discussion of unity where I'd be happy to open up our policy, our procedure, our laws, our finances and show other communities this is what we do and we can help you you know just give us the opportunity and if we're unified more I really believe you can do that work and that's something we've offered even at the Chukwaya tribe I think we have a really good governance system set up we have a good model to how we operate as a tribe but we respect the autonomy of each community

but we work together on these bigger issues and I would and I put this out before I put it out again is that we love to offer that to other tribal communities or just communities is, you know, how can we help you get there? You know, we have an economic development board of directors. We've said it at our board of directors that we would happily have our board of directors go in other communities and help them set up economic development opportunities and invest in long-term, sustainable revenue streams for their membership. We'd love to use that and help our other communities get there. It's just difficult. And I get it for the smaller communities because sometimes it's tough to think that I mean we're all based on elections too right

that's the reality and if you're having election for a distribution and um and the members say yes we want a distribution from it then if you don't do it chances are you're not getting elected in next time right so it's really a tough it's a tough balance to to make and you know I think there's a lot of tough decisions that that you have to make his leadership and we went through the same thing we did we did that lease with the two other communities and we brought in a substantial amount of revenue from it. But we made our expectations very clear from the beginning is that we were going to use that money to invest back into a membership. And part of that money went to build in a longhouse. That was one of our promises was that if this lease is

approved, we'll build you a longhouse. And we did. You know, and we invested it back into other programs and services. And we invested a good chunk of that money into a land purchase reserve fund as well. So we did what we promised, but we didn't promise a distribution. you know and that's the difference that I think we took from it was that you know we created a plan but the plan was for the community as a whole in how to really you know use utilize those funds to benefit all of our community and without a distribution I think we did because it was it was it was it after COVID or something too I think we did a small distribution from that like 500 bucks from that but not nothing too too substantial right if I recall correctly it was right before

Christmas it was a tough year and so we decided let's add an extra $500 onto our members distribution just to show that, hey, we're here, we're here to help and we're here to support you. But it wasn't, it wasn't something that we promised to the membership either. Yeah. No, I couldn't agree more. And I think about this issue a lot because, and I'm interested to get your thoughts on this, for a community like yours that was, even when you were growing up, is in more of the heart of the community. And I think that that just places you and your community in a different foot in than communities out in the middle of nowhere, because the ability to consider going to a dentist, going to a counselor,

connecting with a lawyer, visiting a small business, understanding the value of entrepreneurship. All of that comes from being in that community and seeing that in the day to day. And I really, I think a lot about my community because I think about how hard it would be to go to UFB if you're living all the way out on low heat highway and having to drive 45 minutes out every day for school. That's going to be discouraging. Gas is expensive, insurance, buying a car, all these things, yeah. And then thinking about that lack of access to resources, mental health resources, being able to connect with a lawyer and just feel that connection when all your access is to your own community and you don't have lawyers, accountants, business owners, judges, like all these different variety of people, your knowledge base isn't as strong when it comes to return on investment.

And so one of my hopes is to deliver financial literacy to indigenous communities, particularly rural, because I feel like that that is a conversation. that may get may occur but isn't done with the passion or the understanding of seven generations or all of these key tools that help people think and understand why that's so important and so one of my other goals is to do a and it'll be coming up is a how to start a business mini series because again I think that that knowledge reaches shiactin squayala all these communities right there because they see their small business owners and they see people working in their community who've started businesses and are involved but when you're out in a rural community you don't have that same access you don't have those same peers who if you say I have

this brilliant idea to start like a bannock business or I have this idea to start like a canoe business like you can have this idea and then nobody understands what that potential is how valuable that would be what the cost would be how to get started how to incorporate who to call regarding accounting like all of those people it's that would be too intimidating so I just imagine this person being like I have this brilliant idea and telling them all their friends and their friends being like, hi, you're crazy. Like, what are you thinking?

Good luck. Yeah, exactly. And that discouragement causes even worse circumstances for them to consider economic development. 100%. I think it's definitely a gap. You know, even for us, is checked and that's an area that we probably fall short on has supported our membership if they really do have those, you know, entrepreneurial needs.

And I think that would be a fantastic mini-series to do. And I'd be interested to even offline chat with you a bit more, but incorporating that into some of the chamber work I do as well because we're trying to do more of those those mini series and stuff around education and stuff and especially business, right? So, yeah, I think that'd be a fantastic series

if you did do it. We'll definitely, we'll be in discussions after as well. But I do see that as, you mentioned like, you know, that idea of thinking that seven generations ahead. And I think that's such a big role that I've seen now as well, especially over the last couple years,

is financial independence today looks a lot different than financial independence in 50, 75 years or 100 years, right? So what am I doing today to enable the leaders of Chi-Acton or whatever it might, Chiqua, whatever it might look like in 50, 75 years to set them up in a place where they can still do the progress that I'm trying to do, right? And so what comes with that is, you know, having financial literacy and knowing the reality of budgeting and really the reality of budgeting and really the reality of operations budgets, capital budgets, and ongoing inflation and all that that plays into all this, that, you know, my budget today for this year for Chiakton is going to look very different in five years. Even if we don't produce more programs and services,

the cost, you know, our employees' costs go up, the benefits go up, everything. With that, all the budgets go up. So you got to really think in the next 50 to 100 years, what is that going to look like for Chiakton? And what am I doing today to set us up? up for that. And I think that's something we've done well at now these last couple years is really creating some sustainable investments that I know we're leaving for for for a while that I know is going to set up our membership for the next ideally hundred years. And that's the idea that I think a lot of communities get bogged down in this. We've got revenue. Now how do we give it back to our membership right away when okay we've got revenue but how do we set up our community to be

successful down the road when the reality on the reserve systems is that we don't have the luxury that a lot of municipalities do with the expansive land base. We're restricted to what we have for land base. So what are we doing today with the resources to help benefit our members like I said in 50, 100 years? Because our resources are going to run out on Chiakdon. It's a reality. I know that. So what are we doing with those resources to plan? Because when they run out, we better have some sustainable revenue and ongoing revenue, which we do through taxation and other avenues. But what are we doing with those revenues to make sure that we're not wasting them? Not wasting is the wrong term, probably, but not using them in a not very responsible way, right?

So I think that's a huge discussion that I think would benefit so many communities in not only BC, but across this country, right? And yeah, it's so important. Like I said, I'm so lucky to have somebody that, our director of finance, Lori Fallas, who's been working for First Nations for most of her life. And she understands the needs, but also the future needs. So I've learned a lot from her as well. And, you know, I couldn't be more proud of what we've been doing these last couple of years to set us up for those next seven generations.

I couldn't agree more. And I just think about, I took a taxation course. And one of the things I learned was, and you may know this, that when a government like Trudeau has printed, so much money as he has, it causes hyperinflation. Yeah. And I think about how that is directly going to impact people on fixed incomes. Yeah. Who are on fixed incomes, my indigenous

community, other indigenous communities. Our elders. So many of her elders. Exactly. And the fact that we don't connect to the two and say, this person is going to cause our community to be in worst financial system, financial circumstances, and to

be able to argue that, it just frustrates me because I know that what's going on is going to have a detriment to my community, to the members. It hasn't happened yet. We just saw it went up to 3.7%, but I think it's going to continue, and I think that that's going, the people who are going to pay the worst price

are the people that we're saying need the biggest leg up. And the fact that they're getting put in an even worse circumstance and can't advocate for themselves frustrates me, I think the most, because if I went and asked the average indigenous person living on reserve, what do you think of inflation and how is that going to affect? Like, they're

not focused on that. And that's okay. Nobody can focus on all different topics, but that our indigenous organizations aren't arguing with the government. You need to stop printing money because that is going to cause harm to people on fixed incomes that I haven't heard that argument leveled to Trudeau or any government is very frustrating to me because I know that in 10 years they're likely going to be paying the consequence. Yeah. And guess what are we doing today to make sure that we're supporting our members for that, right? So that's, that's a, you know, definitely a topic that it does worry me as well, right? It worries, I know, we have, you know, some members that require a little more support than others.

And we know that. And we do our best to prepare for that and make sure that we're setting ourselves up, but also setting our members up to succeed in that way as well. But it's difficult, you know, and some challenges in some of these situations you can't predict and you have to be able to be there and react in a good way that, and it goes back to this empathetic, you know, being an empathetic leader. and not being so prescriptive and in my, like, that Western kind of view of,

well, if you don't meet this ticky box, you're not going to get any funds from Chi Acton. You know, I just, that's not the way that I like to operate and I see it as being more human about that and being able, but planning for it. You have to plan for it. That's awesome. Are you going to be running again? Oh, yeah. Yeah, you know, yeah, I'll be doing this for, I don't know.

I'm going to keep running. We'll see where my life takes me. I have all the intentions to run again for next term. What is that next term? In two and a half years. Okay. So 2024. And is it four years?

Yeah, four year terms. My first term is three years. Then our community has been trying to change our election code for 15 years or so. So when I got in, that was one of the big things that was on our to-do list was, okay, let's try to get this election code passed. So I think I was the third or fourth attempt at it. And we managed to get it passed, which changed our terms to a four-year term. So now I'm on four-year term. So definitely, you know, definitely going to keep going and we'll see where.

At the end of the day, I have this, like, it may sound stupid or maybe, like, people probably laugh at me when I've said it before. And I would love to mentor somebody one day to just take over my role and have a. That doesn't sound stupid at all. And have really a smooth transition. Yeah. And not have. Yeah, we have to have an election.

That's part of it. But I would love to have an election one day where, you know, we can, I can, I can, mentor somebody who wants to take over this role and I could, you know, exit gracefully and have someone enter gracefully as well and be prepared because that was one of the biggest things that I struggled with when I got into the role is I didn't know what the heck I was supposed to do where I was supposed to be, you know, what my role is. And I'd spent six months figuring that out when I think you could do a lot of work leading up to that and having somebody stepping in and being able to pick the ball up and run with it without having to spend that six months

to a year learning, you know, and understanding, what am I supposed to do? Where am I supposed to be? What is this role entail? So I would love to be able to, you know, one day if somebody, you know, came to me and said, hey, Derek, I want to run for chief next term, okay, let's work at that. You know, let's figure that out. I'll figure out something else to do if that's what the community wants, you know, and if that's really what the community wants, then let's do that.

Let's get you prepared for this job. And I think it'd just be fantastic. I would love to see it happen. And I'd love to see another community. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that young leaders like yourself, like David Jimmy, set such a strong example on how to proceed because, and I'd like you to touch on what that partnership was like when you were taking on the role. What was your relationship with David Jimmy at the time? Was that your first time meeting him? Were you guys friends for a long time prior? No, I've known Dave. Like we've, you know, I've seen him around before being in this role and everybody knows of David Jimmy. Right. But when I got in the role, he was, you know, we clicked right away in somebody that, I can say he's a really good friend of mine, a really good colleague, and a mentor. Like really, he's a mentor of mine as well and a role model for me. He's been a resource for me that I just can't say enough of, especially early on.

Early on, I had no idea what I was getting into, where I should be. He was a guy that I talked to right away, Dave, like, what are these meetings I should be at? I have no idea what my calendar should look like. So he helped me connect with the people who, you know, send out the meeting invites for these bigger political meetings, connect me with the right resources, and help me understand a bit of my role. role. So yeah, I think Dave's been just an amazing friend and colleague and mentor for me. And even, you know, we check in, we text regularly, we talk regularly. We, you know, he's somebody we're at meetings a lot together. But he's somebody just brings this, to me, I, he just brings

this different level of thought to me. And he questions, the way he questions things sometimes in a really healthy way. And, you know, I've learned a lot about that from him, about, um, sometimes I talk too much and I know that right and sometimes it's just taking a moment to listen and to take it all in and process before you respond is something that I think Dave is really really good at and being able to think strategically in different scenarios and bigger picture sometimes is something that I've really been able to learn from Dave and I really he's mentorship is something that I really can't put even a word to I think it's just been really grateful to have someone like Dave

be a part of my growing as a chief and growing as a person. That is really great to hear because I think that that is to what you're saying of wanting to have, be a mentor somebody else, that that's kind of the role he played for you. Do you think that the four-year term works? Do you think that it forces you to be, like the argument in like the U.S. and in Canada is that it forces, this four-year cycle forces our leaders to think short-term. We have short-term election cycles, therefore they think short-term. But I think that local politics kind of puts a contrast to that.

I don't think that you necessarily have to think short-term, or maybe I'm wrong. No, I think you're right. And it's tough. Like, that first three-year term was, I mean, you feel like you have to hit the ground running. Like, in trying to do as much as you possibly can in three years. And I can't imagine the bands who still function on a two-year term. You know, and having to think, you know, in two years, what am I going to do in two years to get re-elected again, right? you start doing initiatives and then before you know it, you're running for chief again or

council. But in a four-year term, yeah, it gives you a bit more time to think, um, it definitely, I think short term or whatever, but I, I don't really like to think that way. I, I, I, for me, even at the last election, it didn't stop me from, from continuing all with my job. I didn't stop doing the things I, I had to do because an election was up and I had to campaign. No. I just kept keep on, keeping on and thinking long term and, and, and, and I really do love thinking long term. I have so many long term goals for Chiakton that I think so big sometimes that I have to reel myself into, okay, you think big, where do you start though, right?

And so I always think long term. And I have a hard time narrowing it down to short term to say, where do I start? And that's why I use the resources around me to help me with that, that thought process. Because I constantly think, what's the next big thing? What's the next big thing to change Chiakin and change our membership's lives? And how can I play a part in that? So, I don't know. I think the opposite.

I always think, you know, what's these big things that I think we need to invest in? And how do we get there? Can you tell us? Yeah, totally. Some of these big ideas? Housing strategies, we're starting. You know, we partner with BC Housing and ISC on a 23-unit row home housing development. It should be done by next May.

Managing expectations next summer at some point. But then the next goal is to, you know, that next housing strategy is to be able to provide serviced lots for our members. who can afford to build on and come back home. So we provide an avenue for them to come back home. We've heard it from so many of our members that they want to live on Chiakton. But there's so little land left for our members to build homes on that we need to do as Chiakton council do a better job of finding land for our members to and service at land for members to build homes.

We're trying to meet the needs of affordable homes right now for our members who are on those fixed incomes and low incomes to, to access quality home housing for the long-term future at a very affordable rate. And we're going to do that. The next step is, what about our members who want to come home and can afford to build a home? So that's the next big thing that I'm working on with that strategy. The other aspect, which I'm very passionate about, is social and health and well-being. And, you know, the eventual goal is to draw down more and more services from Stalo Nation,

and Stolo Health, and even maybe through the First Nations Health Authority, is draw down more of these services. But where do we start? So where I'm starting is doing an assessment and working with people like Sue Griffin from Stalo Health around understanding the gaps in Stolo Health services who are directly funded from First Nations Health Authority. So in understanding what are the gaps that Stollo Health is struggling to fill? And how can we as a progressive community use our revenues to fill those gaps? So one of the gaps we see right now is there obviously was the waitlist in counseling. So we addressed that. We created our own counseling program. The next one we're

doing is we're hiring more of a care aid hands-on health worker to be in the homes to help supplement the services that Stalo Health and Fraser Health are trying to provide to so many of our elders and vulnerable people. So we have somebody who's more boots on the ground in there advocating for better services through Stolo Health or FNHA or Fraser Health, but also working directly with me. Right now, I've been doing that for the last couple years. And it's tough. And I can't spend the amount of time that I want to on that. If I could do that for a full-time job, I would love it. I would love to be working with our members. But the reality is I can't.

I can't be in there every day. So now we're hiring somebody to fill that gap. When I've been doing that for the last four and a half years. So that's our first kind of step. We know transportation is an issue. So we're going to eventually with that this new worker is going to understand our transportation needs more. And likely we're going to hire somebody to be a full-time driver for our members and our elders.

But with the eventual goal of my big long-term vision goal is building a health center. You know, a bigger health center where we can have, you know, prevention health workers in there. And I come from very much a preventative lens rather than a reactionary lens where right now we have Yothmi social workers who are prevention social workers sitting out of one of our offices, not apprehensive, apprehension social workers. They're there to prevent. Proud to say we have no kids and care from Chiatin, none. And, you know, that's something that I was so proud to see. So long-term, big vision, big housing strategy, new health facility. 20 years away. Like really, 20 years away for us to build a facility big enough to bring in

all these health services. And I would love to provide health services to surrounding communities so you don't have the capacity to do it. You know, like Sawali, Yakukwia, Skokale, if we're able to be that conduit form, great, let's do it. Skokale has a new Say building. Can you tell us about that or what you know about? Yeah, so what I know about it is like basically a joint administrative building slash kind of health building for the community there. I don't, It's not big enough to be solely a health building because they're bringing in all their main administrative functions for the three communities. It's going to be a beautiful building. I'm really excited for them to see that because they've needed that for so long, too.

But really it's just bringing them together. And it really shows how three communities can come together, three smaller communities can come together and achieve something for the benefit of all of their communities. And I couldn't be more happy for them. I think it's a fantastic thing that they've taken on. They've secured some funding through the federal government for that as well, and good for them. I just, I'm excited for them. I think what they're going to realize when they move in there is that, you know, with their growth, there's their communities, they're going to run out of space quickly as well again.

And we did the same thing. When we built our facilities, it was like, oh, crap, we're out of space already. So, and it's a good thing, though. It's a good thing that they're growing and being able to provide better services and programs to their membership. So I'm excited for them. Which are the three communities? Scalcalcale, Atchelitz and Yakukyas. So, Achilles and Yakkweas are very small, right?

I think Yakokweas has, I don't know, 60 to 70 members, and Atchelitz is similar, maybe a few less. So the reality is of small communities is, you know, they're going to struggle to be able to build that infrastructure. So it's really cool to see the three of them come together and do that. Absolutely. And I think that that is, these conversations I really enjoy, because these are the communities that never get any spotlight ever.

And we were just near Atchelitz, First Nation, some of their housing, just down, I think it's still, it's Yale Road, it's in the industrial. And so it's just, I took Rebecca there and I was just like, did you know this is like a First Nation community? And she was like, I had no idea. And it's like, most people probably don't. And it's, it's that reconnection. And I think that that's where I like to see the land acknowledgments go. It's less about like we're on this territory. I really like just connecting people and getting that like, oh, just so you know, when you go to the Save On Foods and your promontory, you're actually on Sheact and First Nation. When you're,

At Walmart, you're at Squyala first. Connecting that because then that's like when you go to Rosedale or Greendale or it gives you that more like what community am I in. Not in Chilliwack. You're in Cheyacton. Exactly. And I see people using like, well, we're in the Stolo territory. And it's like that, that's not, that's again, that's that lip service to me. Because I want that education piece.

And I think that being able to break things down for people and show them, this is just like Rosedale. This is just like Greendale. It's just like Rider Lake or whatever community. It's like that. And it deserves the same respect that you give those communities. Yeah. And we have municipal status. The Chi Act,

and we are considered a municipality. So it's interesting because, yes, we were designated as a municipality, but so many different policies in both the provincial and federal legislation and acts still discriminate First Nations as not having the same status

as a municipality does. So a good example of that is we're going after, I always like to push the boundaries of jurisdictions. of, you know, we have the right as any other municipality does. And one of those jurisdictions is around BC Hydro and Hydro or just services in general. And we're trying to take over BC Hydro services for On Chi Act and to generate some more revenue, ongoing own source revenue. But in the BC Utilities Act, it specifies that First Nations do not, are not exempt the same way municipalities are, which enables municipalities to then buy and take over hydro services at a,

bulk rate to sell to their end users to generate revenue. In the act, it specifies we're not allowed to. So I'm working on getting an exemption through that act to set a precedence for other communities who want to take on those services and have the capacity to do so to generate revenue. So I'm always like this balance of yes, we are a, like you said, we are Chiakton. You're on Chiakton. You're on Chilok. You're on Chiakton. And we want to assert those levels of jurisdiction the same way any municipality has the entitlement to. That's amazing. Can you tell us what your relationship is with the city of Chilwaukee?

Oh, fantastic. I think that that's an area where people don't ever hear the two kind of communicate. I'm a big believer that we need to work together. We do. We work very well together. Ken Popoff, the mayor, him and I, we text, we call, we golf together sometimes. We have a very good relationship. And that goes back to, I've known Ken since I was a child.

So that goes back to well before he was even a mayor. not well before I was a chief. But even with their staff, that same level of respect, you know, us as a growing community on Chak. And we have areas in our land code and our zoning laws and policies that we question sometimes, is this the same that the city would do? So we pick up the phone, phone Glenn White or other people at carriage effort at the city and say, hey, what would you do?

And they provide us feedback and advice back on how to mitigate those factors in a development proposal or whatever it might be. And so we have a fantastic work in relationship. We work on servicing, we work, we submit joint applications for sidewalks. And I sit on various committees with the city of Cholok, you know, one being the diversity acceptance and inclusion committee. And the other one, I sent another task force for the mayor's task force as well. So, yeah, the inclusion that I felt from, you know, specifically Ken and his council and now

his staff, I just feel like we're in a good spot with them. And I can't say enough about how important. important those relationships are. I'm a big believer in building relationships in order to move forward because reality is we live in Chilac, but Chiakton together. We all live here together. So how do we make this a safer, a better community for all of us to live in and thrive together? Is that ever tough to manage the jurisdictions and where those boundaries are? Or is it simple? Like I see all these developments coming about new roads, updated lights. How does that all come together. Yeah. So, like, we, we know developments are coming and we kind of had a feeling that

our members were starting to capitalize on some other land, which they have the right to do so, right? Like they, you know, they have the right to land valuations all over the province and the Fraser Valley went up substantially. Same thing happened on Chiakton. So our members capitalized on those, on those valuations and good for them. But what we did, we, you know, we gave the city the heads up. Like, this is coming, guys. What are you doing to work with us to prepare that? And that's why you saw the widening of promontory road, you know, why we're working together on producing sidewalks down Chilok River Road to increase safety because it's not just Chiakton members living on Cheyacton, it's city. Again, a lot of our taxation revenue goes back to

the city. So they're dependent on Chiakin. You know, we give back in the excess of three, four million dollars a year in taxation back to the city. So the reality is, is they get revenues from Chiatin that they wouldn't get unless we were progressing as well. So, they need to work with us and they do and it's you know it's it's really good to see with the development we work together with developers to understand you know road systems roadways what makes sense for not only for Chiakton what makes sense for the city of Chilawak and how we can improve safety and infrastructure for all the residents of Chilawak and Chyakton wow that is awesome and now let's get into Chilawak Chamber of Commerce yeah

tell us about how that all came about oh yeah I got Dave Dave sewered me into that one no I'm just kidding Dave, they was stepping down from the Chamber of Commerce and before he was stepping down, he wanted to, he talked to me and said, would I be willing to step into that role? And I said, yeah, you know, sure, like I'd, you know, I'd be happy to take on that role on behalf of First Nations in Chilab. So it's been a, it's been fantastic. You know, Leanna Kempter, the executive director and the whole board, really awesome to see this business community work together in a very inclusive way. And some of the work we do now is,

With all the residential school stuff coming up is we're focusing on this idea of one of the past to reconciliation is education. So that's where I mentioned some of the education initiatives that we're wanting to do, create a bit more of a calendar around to educate the business community on the histories of First Nations and the impacts of residential school and the impacts on the business community that, you know, indigenous entrepreneurs struggle, like you said. And how do we support those indigenous entrepreneurs as well? So that's one of the pieces we're also focusing on this workforce issue as well to try to bring together better supports for our youth to enter the workforce, whether it be post-second education or whether it be trades or something that we can also have an inclusive kind of approach to that to include the indigenous community. So we have a partnership with the Stable Business Association. And so, yeah, I think it's, you know, the work we do at the chamber is good work.

It's fulfilling as well. Like you mentioned before, it's fulfilling. It has fun moments where we have pre-COVID. We do connections where we'd all get together as a business community. And then there's also the gala's that go on. And really, at the gala, they're trying to incorporate more of the traditional welcomes. The traditional, we had Gwen and Aiea. She goes by her traditional name Aya now, but Teresa Walkis.

She would come, they'd come and do some traditional dance and drumming and to welcome the gala and welcome the people to the gala, that didn't happen before, right? So those little things, those little gestures, they go a long way to recognize the territory in which we all work and play on. So it's, yeah, that's good work. That's awesome. What is it like to kind of watch the business in Chilwaukee develop and grow, and what have you seen from being involved in?

Yeah, it's interesting. Like, it's cool to see the growth and to see where we are as a city, but also, like, we do tours as a chamber board where we go around to anywhere from small to large business like industrial or whatever and we do a check-in like you know how is business especially with COVID what are your challenges where can we help and it was cool for me because I got to do check in on a lot of the Chi-Acting businesses that are on Chi-Acton so got to do a pulse check and see where they're at and being able to be hey I'm chief chief Derek Hep but also chamber board of director here to see how's it going from both ends from my chamber

lens, but also my role as chief is, you know, how is our shopping center doing? How successful are our business is doing on Chi Acton? And so I find that really, you know, a really cool experience and something that I really truly enjoy doing. Yeah. Would you ever consider starting a business? Because it seems like you have a very entrepreneurial mindset and your willingness to dive into things. You know, at first again, I think, you know, when I was younger, I had this goal of starting, you know, youth homes. And that was one of my, my, my, my, goals that I wrote a lot about in scholarship essays and stuff like that and youth homes for you know struggling right and struggling to fit in like foster systems aren't are in a very good

place for a lot of youth so that was my my original goal but I don't now I don't think so I don't think I would I would start a business maybe a consultant business down the road maybe but I don't know I just don't I think my goals have definitely shifted a bit in life And I think that's just a natural evolution of us as humans. We grow and evolve and find different priorities. And I think at this point of life, probably not. Is it because you're able to see a bigger picture now and be able to support those kind of ideas in a different way?

I think so. I think that's exactly it is that I see my role now more in a, you know, I use my BSW so much in such a different role now in a higher level role where I can create systemic change. where I see that the systemic change can impact so many more lives than if I were to to do something. And this takes nothing away from the people that are taking on those very important tasks of starting businesses, whether it's in entrepreneurial or whether it's in social businesses like youth homes and stuff like that. I think the people who do that are doing fantastic jobs and good for them.

But I think I can really be a part of some larger scale change, which I would love to play my part in that. And I think that's where I belong is really in this larger systemic change that I really have a passion for being a part of. When did that come about? When did that change come when you started to kind of see like, wow, I can really, like, was that when you were considering running for chief? Or was that like within the role? Yeah, after I became chief. That's where I really saw that, you know, like I do have a part to play here. And I can play a bigger part than I ever thought and I really ever thought.

and I think it was probably six months into my term where I really took a step back and thought where do I want to like after I really understood the functions of Chi Act and understood the functions of my political role as well I took a step back and thought where do I need to be you know and and where do I need to be to make the biggest impact and really use my skills and values and tools to the best of my ability and I don't attend all the big political functions the big you know, national, provincial government organizations, I go to some, but I usually catch up through emails or through getting the resolutions emailed out or whatever it might be. And I don't go to a lot of the political big ones because I see my time and my assets better

spent in other areas. And that's taking nothing away from the people who are at the political tables because we need those political leaders to be there and making those changes. but I see my skill set and my time better spent in these bigger, you know, health tables, social tables, working in a community level, not just for Chiakken, like through the CYHC, working at the chamber, working on the city's task forces, working at the First Nations Finance Authority, you know, I see my time spent there being more effective. And that's just me. You know, that's my skill set. That's who I am. But I think I really figured that out after about six months in my turn. Yeah, I think that that's so valuable because that's really what I'm trying to convey in the podcast is that you can make real change right here, right in your community, you don't have to look anywhere other than your own community to start to be able to make that real impact. And that's probably where you should start if you're going to do anything because focusing on the world or that's too big of a piece and some people choose to go that route.

But I think that the value, you start there and then that influence will carry. And I think that the legacy you're going to leave in this role is one of like helping your community. And then that can grow and continue to build and expand across the Fraser Valley and beyond. And I think that that's so valuable for people to consider because I think too often we think so small of ourselves. We look at ourselves as like, I can do this teeny tiny little thing and contribute very little. And I know a lot of people who don't even think they contribute anything. They go to their work. They leave.

They go home. and they don't realize that each customer you interact with, each person you talk to, you can make that person's day better or worse, depending on how you approach them, and depending on the mindset you're bringing. And if you don't treat yourself well, if you don't get a good night's sleep,

if you don't make sure you have the food you need, if you don't take care of yourself, you can't take care of others. So I'm interested to hear your thoughts on that. How do you manage all of this stuff? How do you make sure that you're present at the table? because I liked what you started with at the beginning of our discussion is that it's very hard to switch your mindset when you're going from a meeting perhaps about social work and about community to business and finance and switching that from Zoom call to Zoom call and making sure that you're present and you've well rested. How do you approach all of that?

Yeah, I think, you know, rest is key too, like absolutely and being able to shut off at night and, you know, even last night. Like I knew I have a busy day to day and I knew starting with this and then my afternoon's being. busy than I have to go to a long house meeting at night as well. So I knew I had to get a good sleep, right? So that's where it starts is like, I got to get to bed in a decent time, can't get caught up watching TV or whatever too. And, uh, but then start the day well, right? I, you know, I, for me, one of my biggest challenges from being a younger, uh, being a teenager up into my adulthood, I struggled with mental health. I really did. I struggled with depression. I struggled with, um, and not probably a lot of people know that, but I, I,

especially in high school, I bet you people in high school had no idea that I struggled with depression at the level that I did. I really, I was very depressed. I was heavily medicated for a lot of my late teenage years and I bet you people that I went to school with had no idea. Can you tell us a little bit more about that? Because I think that's, I have quite a few listeners who have said they're struggling with that. And so I think someone like yourself who on paper is so incredibly accomplished being able to share that. Yeah. No, and I'm happy. I'm in a good spot. I'm very happy with where I'm at today. But yeah, I have weeks. I have months. I have days. that are difficult and I still but I know me like I did several years of counseling to

to work through some of the triggers in my life and some of the emotions and feelings that led me to to to suffer from depression as well and and but it was a journey like it absolutely was a journey I had a fantastic support network growing up like really couldn't think my mom my dad my friends my wife now has been through me through with me on many of the darkest days of my life probably when in my teenage years late teenage years and some moments where yeah like suicide ideation and stuff like that that was that I struggled with and um you know now I can comfortably talk about it because I'm I'm confident with who I am and where I'm at and I'm confident enough to say that yeah like I still struggle like there is days like post COVID when or when COVID

hit and my soccer started my my exercise that I so heavily depend on because I know for me I need to exercise to maintain my mental health. Soccer is a big, has always played a huge part in my life, even just running and being active. Now I picked up mountain biking when COVID hit because soccer stopped. So I had to figure out, and I had, and my wife knows, like I had a month there. I know I wasn't function at a level that I normally am at. I wasn't that same, you know, happy, you know, very positive outlook on life,

albeit you get through the work day, you do your best to. to you know be the best person you cannot work but then you come home and that's where you know you're real you kind of let loose you know that was tough that was a tough day but you know I thought I had a reflect reflected back on myself after that again and I thought what am I doing that I'm that I'm maybe what am I not doing right now and one of those things was the exercise piece but then the other aspect was I stopped taking my vitamin D to me which was such a simple thing for me to to help increase that there's levels of serotonin and that so that for me is okay get back to that simple things vitamin D exercise and and really just doing the basics for me and was to get back

to that and yeah I had a bad month but after that I feel like I'm in a really good spot again and I and I have bad days still but I think so does everybody and I think there's so much stigma around mental health and um and depression and that i you know i just try to do my best to talk about it and say that you know the i was i was an athlete in school i had good grades i had great friends and i still suffered from severe depression in high school and even my twin um you know me and my twin have such a fantastic cool relationship that if you know us you know we're like so weirdly close and um identical twins especially me and him are just uh you know we've We've always been so close.

We never really felt what it's been like to be alone, right? Like, that's just the reality of being an identical twin. But I remember him looking at me one day and saying, like, Derek, I don't know what's wrong with you because we have the same life. We have the same friends. We both are, you know, we play high-level soccer. We have a great life and we do well in school. Why do you feel that way? And I don't.

And, you know, even somebody in my identical twin not being able to understand that. And he, like, why should he understand? But he was there for me and he was empathetic. He was a support network for me. I had some fantastic friends who I can't think enough for being in high school and being, let's call it the jocks of high school. Some of my best friends were really there for me in a way that, you know, you just wouldn't expect. And my wife, even today, like she's, like I said, she's been with me through so much. many things that she's been such a rock for me. She brings this balance to my life. My wife is so positive and so everything works out for Shana. Like this is just the thing for my everything works out for Shana. And she brings this balance to life for me where you know like you said my days are so hectic. I'm you know in in one meeting to the next to the next having to shift where I can come home and she just has this aura or about her that's just so positive and uplifting and it can just ground me again. And that's, you know, having those people around you, I think, has really

helped me, you know, face that challenge head on and, uh, and really come out of it a better person. You know, it's been like I said, it's been five, six years in counseling, off and on. I went back even before a, um, I maybe went from when I was six, 15, 16 on and off council until I was 20-ish, 21 maybe. And then, uh, before I went away after university for a long-term practicum, I went back, check in for a couple sessions. Make sure I was okay. Make sure I was okay to travel on my own for seven months and had a good mental health space to where I was at. So travel, what was? It was Australia. I went to Australia for seven, well, six months in Australia and like six weeks in Thailand. And what was that like?

That was awesome. I did my last practicum in Australia, actually, for my BSW. I was one of the only, the only student in my cohort to go to an international, um, international practicum. So that was, it was fantastic. That was the first time in my life that I really did something by myself without my twin, whatever, right? And so it was really cool to be, to do that and grow into a person, growing into who I am today and be really, I think I gained so many, so much insight to who I am and my values. And, uh, yeah, it was fantastic experience. What did you learn from that experience? Oh, I just, you know, I was able to learn to be, um, to be, you know, happy by myself. You know, I think you have to be happy by yourself in

order to be happy with somebody else as well, right? And for me personally, I think I took so much from that process personally. But then also I learned a lot about the indigenous culture, indigenous worldview outside of our stallover or context here. So what was that what did you, what was the contract? Um, I, you know, I learned very similar their, their, their culture, their beliefs, their, their, their lifestyles are very similar to what we practice here. But I also learned that Australia, in my opinion, is so far behind us in the way they view indigenous rights and indigenous governance systems. I worked for an Aboriginal Child Protection Agency there, but the government has only allowed them to practice C4 delegation, which means they can only get involved after a child removed. They can't get involved prior to.

That's up to the mainstream child protection agency to do the assessments and apprehension of children, which is so sad to see. to me was so sad to see these passionate people who really want to make a difference in these indigenous families, but they're constraint by policy and law that only allows them to be there for the families after the child's apprehended. So for me, it was eye-opening. It was sad. It was, but I learned a lot about the good work that so many organizations across this world are doing. Yeah. And that was six months. Yeah, I did my practice agreement. I did a condensed practice in about two and a half months. And then I traveled around Australia after that for a couple months. And then I finished off in Thailand where my brother, my twin met me.

And another friend of ours met me in Thailand for, they joined me for three and a half weeks. And I stayed an extra couple weeks by myself. Wow. And how old were you at the time? It's 24. Yeah. Yeah. I think I had my 25th birthday over there. Right. Can you tell us about the journey with your wife and when you two met and how that led through when you. You travel. Yeah. So we met in middle school, actually. And we've been, you know, friends ever since.

And then we started dating in high school. So I go way back with her family. Like her grandpa's, like my grandpa, like I grew up at her grandparents' house. They had a pool in the backyard. So we grew up there a lot. So it was, you know, our relationship stems deeper than just, you know, our marriage. We go back way, you know, as best friends, really. And so it's really cool to be able to live.

life with her and the better part of our lives have been spent together. But in her 20s, like, we kind of split up for a couple years. And that was just, you know, where I was at in life as well. And that's when we split up, that's where I was finishing up my degree. And that's when I decided to go travel and do. And then when I got back, shortly after I got back, we got back together again. And that was just, yeah, a good opportunity for me to grow and for her to grow. And she traveled a bit as well.

And we came back together. And I think, you know, both of us are better for that. Yeah. And how did that come about? how did you propose how did that all for traveling you mean no like no like how did you guys propose to get married oh oh so we funny stories so we kind of go back we were talking again uh we always talked but we were actually kind of hanging out again when i was got back from australia a couple months after i got back from australia we were hanging out again and

kind of doing it in secret too and just kind of just hanging out and spending time together and then I broke my leg and really bad playing soccer and I was supposed to go away on a family vacation two weeks before the vacation I broke my leg really bad and had to have surgery and couldn't travel. So at the time, she was, she stepped in and really helped take care of me when my family was gone. And it just really sparked us back up again into the way that, you know, we started hanging out more and more together. And then things just naturally progressed back to where we are today. yeah and how did you propose how did you guys oh so we uh i proposed to well what three years ago now or whatever and um so yeah so it was her dad lives in emminton um so when he came out

and i was trying to figure out a way to propose prior to because he doesn't come out very often so i wanted to give him the opportunity to celebrate with us as well so he was out and i had these other plans in place but then weather messed it up and all this so i ended up you know One of her favorite things is spending Sundays together, especially during, she's a huge NFL fan, spending Sundays together in bed or on the couch or whatever with her dog watching football. So I knew that. So then in the morning, I had mimosas and some breakfast ready for us. And before she even woke up, I had everything ready for and woke her up with a ring in her face and said, you know, will you marry me because her dad was out. And I wanted to make sure that he could experience it with us as well.

So yeah, it was kind of a last minute thing. I was like, okay, well, I got to do something. And I just went with it. And at the end of the day, it didn't really matter how it happened. I think it just was the fact that, you know, we made it kind of official. And, yeah. Right. That is awesome.

And I really want to get a little bit more into what you see in her because my, one of my other concerns is that so many people have this surface level understanding of love, of romance, of what it means to be in a relationship. And the thing that discourages me the most is seeing men put in so much work at the very, beginning the first six months they try so hard and then i talk to them seven eight months in and they're like yeah well like she's mine now and that it's good and i'm good to go and and then they like feel betrayed because that six months that was like you're telling me who you are during that period and for the guys to me what i've seen is them be much more like that's that was the best of me and you got it and now i'm done now and now i get to relax and watch tv and chill out and so that always concerns me because it feels like they miss the point of a marriage of a commitment and you see the divorce rates are so high.

And it's because to me, people don't understand that you've tied your life in with somebody and that they are there for you when you're low and you're there for them when they're low. And when they're on their high, you make it even better. And when you're having a great day, they try and make it even better. Like that partnership is so beautiful yet for some reason our TV shows, our movies, they all give us the surface level of understanding what it is. So can you share a little bit about your relationship? Absolutely.

I mean, I think, and you raised to really good points. Like, she's been there with me through my lowest of lows, right? And I've been there with her through some of her lows as well. And we've seen each other in positions and times of her lives that probably nobody else has, right? And so we've built this different level of relationship where she knows me. Like, she knows who I am. She knows when I'm having those bad days. And she asks and says, we make a joke of it, like, it's not like it makes a huge.

difference every day but I know it does she like if I'm having a bad day do you take your happy pills today do you take your vitamin D like just those little things right and um and so for me I think it's she like I said she brings this balance to to my life that I it enables me to thrive and I really do believe that she brings these her her values her beliefs were so entrenched we have the same values and beliefs and in so many ways but then we also have our differences and that's the reality of so many people that, you know, and we, we are open to talk about those as well and learn from each other and grow from each other and, you know, now having a child together. Like, we've, we both have had different parenting styles, but then, you know, we both have very similar parenting

styles at the same time. And we learn those and grow together as a couple and as a family. And you're right. Like, those first six months of relationship, people show their best, right? And what the reality is is, you know, that's really not who a lot of people are, right? And really, I'm confident and comfortable enough to be who I am around, around her, and she is the same. We're open enough to share our values together. And I think, you know, her optimism and her, she cares so much. She has such a passion to care for people and care for me and care for our family that I think it just, we complement each other so well that, yeah, like I said, I think she just

enables me to thrive. And she's so supportive of me as well. And in our life, I call her my little cheerleader sometimes because she just, she just cheers me on, right? And it gives me that confidence in when I'm, when I've achieved something that I may not feel is, as a big deal. She makes sure she highlights that for me. Like, hey, like, that's huge. Like, what you're doing is, is fantastic. And look at what you're doing. So I think she really brings that, just that, different counterbalance to me right to because I'm I get caught up in work sometimes so much and I you know the other night it's 8 o'clock a night and I'm still getting into emails and she's like Derek you've been working like 12 hours today like you can get that tomorrow and it's like yeah you're

right like this can wait and you can get into that mindset because I struggle with that too of like you've one more email one more response one more one more phone call or whatever exactly and you need that person to be able to be like, you've done a good day, but you need to be able to do this tomorrow. And that was one thing that was really important to me to highlight is I don't want to have the person on who can do something really great for six months and then burns out and needs to take six months off to recover from the six months they just did. You need to be able to live your life in a sustainable way that doesn't just work today or works for five years where you're putting in the same amount of work where you're not sacrificing tomorrow for

the work that you did today and saying, I did 15 hours today and I'm just not going to work. for the rest of the week because I put in so much work today, you need that balance and to be able to find somebody who sees your shortcomings or where you might forget something because I agree exercise is a huge thing for me as well and it's tough because like I get home after like doing a nine to five. I want to be at home but I need to exercise to burn off that excess energy or that frustration with that customer who maybe was rude to me or just that bad mindset where you at the end of the day you kind of get that bad mentality that you need somebody to be able to be like, yes, go for your run and then we can relax and have the rest of our night and be in a better

mood after that. Yep, totally. And you're right. Like, and she's very, she's always been very supportive with me with that. And, you know, even mountain biking, it's, I know, it's a long day sometimes mountain biking. But it's a good escape for me to get out in the mountain and go, go connect, you know, and really do something different and exert that energy. So, yeah, and even soccer, I play soccer three times a week, usually, right?

And that's a commitment as well. And, but no, she supports me with that. So it's just, you know, and I support her with, with what she needs to do to stay healthy as well. Yes. What does she do? Can you tell us a little bit? Yeah, so she's a, she was a spin instructor, but then when COVID hit, that obviously kind of stopped. And then she was pregnant when things were starting to kind of open up again and they were going to allow spin classes. But we weren't sure the effects of COVID on a, on a somebody who was pregnant. So we made the decision to don't go back yet.

So she hasn't gone back yet. And the spin room still hasn't really fully open. So, you know, we made a compromise and we got, I got her a Peloton so she can work out from home, right? and that kind of thing. So, but then she worked at Earls for, oh, a number of years. She was a server at Earls forever. And then she also worked her uncle's own Simpson notaries. So she comes from the Simpson family in town that they own Simpson notary. So she worked there for a number of years as well as a conveyancer.

And right now she's staying at home and taking care of our little Jude. So tell us about that. Yeah, Judy's six months old now. He's just the bundle of joy. He's the happiest little kid. It's just, you know, I think somebody's. said to me that you won't know like love until you have a child and then you know that level of love and attachment that you have with a child and oh i mean that level of attachment that

smile every time he cracks a smile just opens up a different level of joy and he's such a happy boy and he's so cute and just brings so much love and joy to our lives and you know i thought you know we couldn't be happier in even before we have an amazing little dog that's like our first born and uh to have now jude and seeing like our little family we've made it's just so amazing it's Um, yeah, I love one of the advantages of being able to work a bit from home through COVID is that I've been able to be there, you know, every day to watch him grow. And in between meetings, I can take a few minutes to be with him rather than being at an office where I don't get that. Right. So, uh, that work life balance is just, it's enabled, working from home has enabled me to do that. Now we're getting back to into our office spaces and then our main office flooded. So we have to rebuild. So I'm realistically going to be home from. working a mix from home and a bit at the hall for the next year and um no complaints I'm sure no like you know do I and I and people always say well working from home you maybe don't work as much I beg to differ the opposite really because for a lot of people is that I just work differently

you know when I I work sometimes like that eight o'clock at night I'm doing emails um but it was a busy day but it's uh but I had just I try to balance it a bit more that okay in between meetings I can can catch up on emails later unless they're urgent but i can spend some time with jude right instead of working 12 hours straight or 14 hours straight i can spend i have two hours off in the afternoon before i have another meeting yeah let's get out for a walk you know like with my wife and i and the dog and the kale because i know i'm going to be working until 8 o'clock tonight and so i think that to me has been such an advantage and um i've really enjoyed that that aspect of it all and even being able to be there for my wife well she's pregnant right like it's just been it's been a fantastic experience yeah how did you come up

with the name jude um you know we both wanted something different uh jude robert ep so robert's named after her grandpa who like i said has been really my grandpa i grew up my uh my dad's dad like my dad came from a very traumatic upbringing and very poor uh you know family structure and his dad wasn't really involved in our lives very much very minimalistic near the end of his life and we kind of took care of of him when he passed away when I was quite young, 10, I think. And then my, my mom's dad passed away when she was 16. So I had a step-grandpa, but he wasn't really that involved with us at a young age. And he passed away when I was a teenager, late-teenager. But we didn't have that same connection. So I've had a really fantastic connection with her grandpa, Bob. My grandpa, so we named,

the middle name after Bob, Robert. And the first name, just Jude. She had a couple names that I said, go ahead, pick out a couple, like, really cool names. And so she picked out a couple, bounce them off me, and Jude just stuck with me. And I really loved it. So, yeah. That's awesome. And can you tell us what it's like to have an identical twin brother? Like, what is this?

It is so cool. It is so cool. Like, it's probably one of the, I don't know what it's like not to have. Like, when people ask me, what's it like to have a twin? I don't know. I don't know what it's like not to have a twin. Me and him, I don't know what it's like to be lonely. Him and I are like, my wife, she knew when she married me, she married both of us.

And that was the reality. same with his girlfriend. They've been together a long time. When they got together, they knew that she knew that she's together with both of us. We text more than we text her wives. We text each other more than anybody else. Pretty much send each other good nights every night and good mornings in the morning. It's just such a weird relationship that we're pretty much telepathic.

We can have full conversations without saying a damn word to each other. And it's just the way we've always been. we've shared jobs we've shared you know licenses we've shared everything to the point of that that we've we've shared cars we've done we have the same degree we went through the same classes in school albeit have done other courses in business now since then but he's you know we've both he's having a kid in november when i when i me and my wife were trying to have a baby him and his wife shortly after with her girlfriend shortly after thought yep we're going to try as well so they're having a boy at the end of october november now as well as we're

We're going to have boys in the same years. So we do everything together. We have the same dogs, sibling dogs. We drive the same trucks. You know, we just, we do everything together. And him and I are inseparable. Okay. So here's the question.

Yeah. How are you guys different? Uh, you know what we are? Our personalities are different. Definitely have different personalities. Like I, you know, even we've chatted about this is that, uh, Tyler's like, I couldn't do your job. Like, I just couldn't, I couldn't do your job.

What, what you have to do is, um, but then again, like, now, he's getting into this more director positions at Yothmeath, where he is doing more or less some work that I do, being that more political face for the agency and working on a different levels, doing this court modeling stuff. So we, but we do have different personalities. Tyler definitely has, he's more, I don't know how to put it, he's just more of a calmer patience to him than I have. You know, he's very good with his words in a way that he knows to articulate things in a different way than I do. And I have a different way of articulating things. We have different personalities, but we're so very much the same in different ways. So yeah, he's, I always

can say Tyler could kill somebody with words. He's very good at like really talking his way and very quick-witted. And I was always more of like that physical kind of guy, but I was always very good with words as well. But yeah, me and him differ in our personalities, but we're so very much the same. Yeah. That's awesome because I think that that is something that people miss out on so much as having that that deep connection and being able to own it. Yeah. It's something that I feel like a lot of people struggle with. Like being willing to say, I text him in the morning and at night, like that's something to other people. I'm sure like, oh, that's weird. Yeah. That shouldn't be weird. We should be trying to have those connections with people more. We are codependent. I will admit

Both of us are co-dependent on each other. Like, yes, we are. But is it a bad thing? No, because, like, we have conversations that I would never have conversations with other people. We have conversations, like, with each other that we probably don't have with our partners, right? And we're able to have those conversations that those tough ones, those, and also those work conversations sometimes that are difficult for so many people to understand. Like, me and Dave, Jimmy have those conversations sometimes about work stuff that probably nobody else understand. You know, my wife, we talk, and she's a very good support network for me.

But there's a lot of things that she probably doesn't understand about my role of what I do that are stressors in my life. Tyler is the same thing. Tyler has a job that's very high stress, child protection. So me and him can talk, have conversations that are at a different level, right? And especially when we're talking about our passion of working with children and families, both of us have that passion in making changes. so yeah it's a relationship that and my mom is such a which has been such a driver of that from when we were kids we'd fight like twins like don't get me wrong

we full fist fights and full like you know we would get in some pretty heated exchanges but at the end of the day my mom would always park us in a room sit us down make us talk it out and hug each other at the end and say this is a bond that you're never going to have with anybody else and you have to cherish it and we do and you know a lot of kudos to my mom for instilling that in us Yeah, I wish that was more instilled in people because we have this very, like, I don't know, when I was growing up, I had these strong friendships, but they were never advocated to me as being important or as like teachers, like your parents, they don't treat your friendships like they matter, like they're going to outlast them or their role in your life.

Like, you don't get that same, treat this person as if they're going to be there because I think that that, to me, is like what a marriage is, is you're stuck with each other. I don't like the idea that divorce is an option because I think that it's important to have somebody to be able to be honest with you where you don't get to walk away. You don't get to run away when the conversation gets tough. And I think right now in our society, part of the reason I started the podcast is because I don't feel like we're having the tough conversations. I feel like our news, our information that we've received is so filtered that it removes all the important aspect out of it so that it's easy to consume or that you already have your side chosen for you on what the right position to have. have where I like I think that your point about there's certain things you just don't understand until you're in it like I didn't realize some of the nuances of interviewing people and how to communicate and so talking to other people who go through those same processes it's important

and having to start at the very beginning of like what is how do you do this and like explaining all the basics can take so long that it's tough to have those real conversations about and get to the meat of the issue so I'm sure that having that connection with somebody who's known you forever who, like, because we always have these, like, weird things that we always do. Like, I don't mean to say this about a person and, like, I don't mean to say that this life approach is correct. Not having to do that in a meaningful conversation is so important. But when you're talking to people, you don't know, you always want to be like, I'm not saying that that's for everybody or I'm not saying my way is the best way. It's like, we always have these, like, little details that we have to add in to make sure that we're not, like, judged based on that one sentence we gave.

And you get to let that go with your wife or with your twin brother. Totally. And be open to being wrong, right? I think that's a really big piece that I, you know, I really enjoy taking into my friendships, my life with my wife, with work, though. You know, yeah, I have an idea. And I think it's a good idea. Yeah, of course I do because it's my idea. I think it's a good approach. But at the end of the day, I may be wrong and I'm open to that, you know, and I think there's a lot of people that, you know, like those relationships are so key to be able to bounce ideas off people and be like, am I completely off the mark here? or am I on the right track? And I have different relationships with people like my twin, like my wife, like Dave Jimmy, where I, different people where I can go to and say, hey, I have this idea or this concept or this approach.

What do you think? You know, and being able to shoot me straight and not give me what I want to hear. You know what I mean? Like I think all too often people are just agreeing with people because that's the easiest thing to do. When it's, you know, I think as, you know, it's a. You make change by questioning process, people, decisions, ideas, and you get better ideas. You get better results.

If you can be strong enough in your position to accept those ideas and change your views, then I think that's where you really, growth happens. Absolutely. How did that come about for you? Because I assume that that was a learning process like any other to be able to develop that confidence and to be able to say, okay, tell me where I'm wrong. And I actually want to hear it because I know a lot of people who like to just hear how they're right. And so what was that like for you? Counseling probably did the best for me for that.

Being able to humble yourself and understand that I have faults. You know, I have, I have things about me that have, you know, probably hurt people along the way and being able to humble yourself and realize that I don't know all the answers and why should I? Why should I know all the answers? There's other people who are way more experienced in very different aspects of life, of education, of professionalism that I don't have and I probably will never have. And being able to accept that, I think, is like I mentioned earlier about my health role, the health council rule, I'm not a doctor. I'm not involved in the health system, like in a clinical fashion. Yeah, I was involved in social work, but that's different than health. So who do I use or who do I utilize to bring that expert?

to the table. So I lean on the people who are actually in those positions to help guide me and to make the sound decisions. But, you know, you have to be able to step back and understand that that's not your area of expertise and accept that. And what are you doing then to build the people around you to provide you with those expertise then to move forward, right? And I think, you know, all too often it happens where somebody like, you put somebody in this position of chief and people expect you to know everything expect you to make all the right decisions have i made bad decisions over the last five years yeah i would say so probably is there stuff i look back on that i think i would do things differently now absolutely 100% and i'm willing

to expect that and move forward and now next time when that decision comes up or that topic comes up i think of that you know i'm not going to do that again yeah and really being able to to really take that and learn from it rather than take that and say, no, I still think I'm right. Really, I'm still thinking I right, even though it didn't work the first time. I still think I'm right. Yeah, I think that that is an important thing to highlight because I think that people do struggle with wanting to hear

the thing that makes them feel good in the short term, but actually does detriments to them in the long term in their ability to succeed and develop and grow. I'm also interested to know what businesses that you enjoy and support in the Fraser Valley and where you enjoy visiting. Oh, yeah. You know, I love little cafes. Like Little Beetle Bistro is one of my favorite spots. I go there. I take my dad there a lot. It's one of his favorite spots. I like, you know, Harvest Cafe downtown. My wife loves all the little boutique shops, like the button box and stuff like that. You know, I, oh, my uncle Greg owns the Garrison Bistro and the Garrison Liquor store in there. So I'll throw a plug out for him. What do you get from these places?

Nothing. No. No, it's family. I mean, yeah, it's family, but I, you know, we go for lunch and he'll pick up the bill sometimes, stuff like that. But that's, you know, I don't expect anything either, right? What I get from the places that I like is good food and good service. Yeah, I mean, like, what do you like getting from that? The Little Beetle Bistro, their chickens, their grilled chicken sandwich, oh, and the service there, the ladies and the owners there are just fantastic. They know, they know, my dad has dementia and Louis body disease, so his memory is not great. Sometimes his, his behaviors are, you know, depending on the day.

But so I love going a little bit of Obistro because they know that there and they and they know his order. He always gets his clubhouse and his soup and they know what if he's, they can tell if he's having an off day or whatever. You know, he's put his, he's put sugar in her sort of salt in his coffee before like stuff like that. So they know. Sorry, what is the, what is it called? Louie body disease. So it's basically it's like a, it's not talked about a lot. Like Robin Williams had Louis body disease and dementia as well actually.

So that's a lot of, and it's not really talked about a lot. It's like a mix of Alzheimer's and dementia. And it basically is basically like a roller coaster ride of ups and downs of dementia mixed with Alzheimer's. And it really affects the body a lot more. Like it almost eats away his body a bit more. So his muscles are always sore. He's tired. He's very tired.

Like he sleeps, you know, he's in bed at 10 o'clock or 9 to 10 o'clock a night and sleeps till 8 or 9 in the morning. Then he's up for a couple hours and sleep. from like 1231 till depending on the day to like four or five right so he doesn't have a lot of awake windows but um but he he so it's his combo it's like but he has good and bad days like he so we went on a family vacation to his sister's place who live on quad dryland just off of campbell river and he's so stubborn my dad is so stubborn and um so strong really like he's in in trying to hide his symptoms and and he just says oh no i'm getting over this illness i'm going to be better and he just

He carries this mentality that he's going to beat it, which good for him, right? And, um, but, uh, but that's not the reality. Uh, but he really tries his best, especially going over to see his sister to show his sister that he's okay and, you know, and he's, he's healthy and, and he does his best. So we're there for five days and he, by the fifth day, he's just wiped. So luckily we're, we're going home. And for the two days after, he pretty much slept for like two days after, but he was exhausted from just holding on to like trying to show that he's strong and and carries him

and tries to show that you know this disease doesn't have me type of thing right so yeah it's tough it's been challenging so he he retired and my mom and dad had these big plans to go and travel and retire and whatever and like no long after retired we really noticed a lot of the symptoms that came through and then finally we've realized he's probably had this for five 10 years we just didn't know it because he was if you know my dad Bruce he He's just a really quirky guy. He's Bruce. Like, if anybody knows Bruce App, they know he's just, he's just Bruce.

He's just quirky. He's, he's a funny guy. He's got this character. He's a character. He's just got a character to him that, you know, he's like anybody else. But then, you know, he's definitely lost that now, right? Like with the disease, he's, he's definitely a shell of who he was before. But he still has those moments where it's pretty cool to see him shine through.

But yeah. That's awesome. And I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah. That's got to be a difficult thing to watch. but it sounds like you guys are handling it. Yeah, I mean, it's tough. Like, yeah, originally, I admit, like 100%.

It was tough when he first trying to figure out what's going on with him and what's wrong. That was definitely a battle. Like, I questioned it. I was in denial. It's that, nope, not a chance. Is he sick like that? But, you know, eventually come to the realization that it is. And it's sad to see.

And it's sad to see my mom. It's tough on her, right? Now, she went from having plans to retire and now being a full-time caregiver, right? And so that's a very different life than what she, imagine and entailed. But, you know, she's just been amazing to be a caregiver for him and really do everything to keep him and keep him home as long as possible. And so that, and he lives, he lives about two, 300 meters away from me in a Malaway

village with my mom. And so I, you know, fortunate enough that I can see him quite a bit, which is really nice. Yeah. That's awesome. And I think that that also goes to show the strength of family and the resilience that family can have. the impact that, because I don't think that the goal should, again, to be happy. It's that you are going to face adversity and tragedy and unfortunate times. And it's how community and

family comes together through that that I think really helps people through. You mentioned Malaway Village. Can you tell us about some of the developments that we can expect the Skynest, Indian Horse? How did all these come about? And what can people expect if they're looking to move there? Yeah. So, you know, Sky Ness is more going to be like a retire, like over 45 apartment building. Beautiful, beautiful building, beautiful design. Iron Horse is going to be a mixed development of predominantly townhouses and detached homes and row homes. And it's absolutely, I really love the layout, the master plan of Iron Horse. We're taking the developers diverse, has taken the same approach that they did with River's Edge, just off of, you know, peach

there. And it's more, you know, green space, walkability, you know, some good park space. So I really like the master design of iron horse and base 10's very similar base 10 is uh predominantly uh will be just townhomes and apartments but then malloway village is uh retirement like dated community style uh development and that was predominantly the uh development on chactin for for a number of years because of the stigma of living on reserve was so because least land right was such a stigma to it that not everybody you know trusted to live on on reserve but retirees uh has had no issue with the lease, 99-year lease or 149-year lease because they thought, hey, good value, great community to live in, I'm not going to be here forever anyways and this is a good

place for you to retire. So predominantly we had Gated communities for the longest time. But now it's shifting to more large-scale residential developments. Yeah. And how does that, how do you see all of that connecting in your head? Because you're seeing all of these connections that really feels like the vetter area is really coming together where I would say there was this disconnect between promontory and like the save on foods garrison and then there's like nothing in between exactly and so how do you see all of that kind of coming together in your mind because it seems like you'll be able to go from promontory all the way down the hill you'll be able to go shopping there you'll be able to hopefully get over to like the keith wilson area all more

assessively how do you see that coming all about yeah I mean and that's where like we were very closely with the city on planning, right? And understanding that when they know when we have developments coming up. And so we plan for, you know, walkability, accessibility, you know, increasing the roadways and all that. So I think it's, you know, it was tough because I remember growing up and seeing all the trees on both sides of the property, right? And I know all the stories of people, you know, growing up there as well.

And so to see it come down, was I sad? Yeah, of course I was, right? It was a part of my child and a part of my life that was, that it was changed forever. But, you know, looking at the, how this is becoming, like we're kind of coined this term called Sardis Central. Like, it's kind of Sartis Central. Chiatin is Sartis Central. Like, this is the new, the newest development of the Sardis side of Chilohac.

Garrison was there, Rivers Edge was there. Now it's Sardis Central. So that's kind of this, with all the developers, it's kind of this mantra that they're all taking is that this is the next, next place for families to live in Chilawak. the next neighborhood for families to thrive. There's two schools beside it. There's a shopping center. There's more commercial space to be coming to Chiakton as well on the newer developments.

So this place is going to be a residential development, a place where families can thrive and live and come home from work and not have to drive to shopping centers, right? That's kind of what we're going for in some of these mixed developments that are going on right now is that if you live in Iron Horse Base 10 or Skynest, or any of these, you can come home from work and you don't have to get in your car to go to the grocery store, or you don't have to get in your car to go access some of these these services. So, yeah, I think it's a really cool thing to be a part of and to really do these master design plans for that area, to try to make it the best possible living environment for all people living there, whether it be members or not. Yeah. I'm really happy to hear that.

And my next question is, you've got all these roles. you're making a huge impact in the community for those people who might be struggling, unmotivated, feeling a little bit lost, what would you say to a person who's not in your position, who dreams of one day filling your shoes and who wants to be the next Derek app but doesn't feel like they're there yet

and maybe feeling a little bit lost? What would you say to that person? You know, I'd say just start. You know, just start somewhere, start small. If it's university that you feel like that's going to help you get to where you want, want to be then then take that leap of faith and be bold be strong be uh you know take chances right and if even if you want to go to post-secondary university you don't know what you want to do

start with some general classes and just get open your eyes a bit to it and if that's not for you then so be it that's totally fine and normal um but if you want to you know get yourself to be in a leadership position or or give back to your community in any way shape or form start to understand the needs of your community and where you can fit in, you know, build your own, like, understand your skill set. You know, I know my skill set now. And I know what I'm good at. I know what I'm not. I know my weaknesses as well. And building that skill set in order to really push you to that next level in life, I think is really important. And building those strengths or building those weaknesses and turning them into strengths is also critically important

to moving forward and being a leader. You know, I knew some of my weaknesses were in math and the finances side of things. I can read financial statements all day. Like, that's easy enough for me. And I understand that. But it's the deeper level of finances that I lacked in around, you know, budgeting, financial planning, putting together feasibility studies, analysis, and whatever that might look like. That's where I lacked. And I knew that. And even in math, like, I, you know, math was never my strong point. But I took it upon myself to go seek out courses to build that weakness up. And is it a strength still? Is it something that I consider one of my strengths? Not quite yet. Am I getting there?

Yeah, yeah. But I, but it's still, I think it's really important to look at what your skill set is and where you can contribute and start there. And maybe that'll grow into something different. Maybe you will turn in. And if you're from Chiakton and you want to be the next Eric, come talk to me. Like, I'd love to work with you. I know there's one guy in particular from checked. I've been bugging for the last year and a bit about when do you want to start getting mentored. When do you start when to get mentored? He's kind of pushing back on me a bit, but still, I'm going to keep bugging them. But it's just one of those things that I think start asking. There's a lot of people you may think are intimidating or not open to talk to you

and to share their story and share their challenges with you. But I am. And I know people like David Jimmy are and I know people, these leaders, these big leaders in our community would be more than willing to share some of your story are challenges because we have faced many challenges I have faced many challenges in my life to get to where I am and I still do but you know it's about really persevering through it pushing through and in doing what you know is right and best and really living living your life by that well I think that that's brilliant advice I really like uh your reference to math because I agree I was never a great math person but I never let myself be the person who as I'm not a math person because I know so many people who said that based on like grade 10 math

I know like that's not a reflection of like just because you weren't a great artist in grade 10 doesn't mean you couldn't be a great artist today or great at anything else and so we get to sometimes locked in who we are and that identification of I'm not a math person I've heard it in almost every job I've worked with people and I've just never been a math person and it's like well did you ever really try beyond grade 10 or grade 11 if you didn't then that's not really a reflection of what your math the lilies are. And I think that that's important for people to start to think about. And even practical math, not everybody realized that, like, I worked in construction for a number of years as well while going through university. And, you know, I met a lot of painters, drywallers,

framers, who said the same thing. Oh, no, school is never my thing. But then you're like, those guys do math, those trade workers do math daily. You know, how much paint does it take to paint a wall? You got to figure that out, square footage. That's math. You know, it's tangible math. That's practical math. So don't tell me you can't do math. You know, you can't do math. You do it every day. So it's really like that flip in your mentality around, you're right. Like I thought for a longest time, I can never do math, never will be a mathematician, took those business courses at UBC and realized I can do math.

You know, I'm not stupid in math. I actually know how to do math. And I can do this. I can excel in it. If I really wanted to put my time into it, I could probably excel in math as well. Yeah. And I think that that really opens the door for people because we say that so often. And when I was growing up, math was like a necessity because we had.

had $200 at the grocery store and so how do you make that stretch and so the mindset is well how do I figure out if this pack is 12 for $20 and this pack is 24 for $15 which is the better deal practical math exactly and I think that that's where people need to reconnect with who they are and really go through what they've been telling themselves about themselves but I also want to give you huge credit because I remember presenting to you when I was a native court worker regarding the native court worker program to the Stolo Nation Chiefs Council, Chiefs Council. And just I remember the intimidation I felt personally

from meeting with you, meeting with David Jimmy, knowing the impact you had on your communities, knowing where you guys were taking your communities and having this immense humility to the responsibility you have, to the leadership that you've shown. Like, your two names are really well known in our community. And I think that that is a testament to your willingness to put yourself out there, to advocate,

and to be reasonable to show all sides of yourself, not just I only talk about this one aspect. And I think that that is a huge door for people because I think that you are the next generation. I'm sure you've heard that of leaders in the indigenous community. And I think that through this, through our other interactions, you really set a strong example on how to communicate with others, how to work with others,

and how to have that humility when you don't know. And I think that that's something so many can get out of this, Because right now, through all of the discoveries of these recent lost children, we're looking to leadership. And I think that people should be turning to yourself to other indigenous leaders who have set the example already, who have already said, this is how we want to move forward and to support you in that endeavor. Because I think that right now, it feels like the conversation's a little lost. And I'd like to look towards people like yourself who set that strong example. Yeah, I mean, it's really difficult. It's been a trying time for not only our community.

but you know all the indigenous people across you know turtle island and uh with the discoveries and the constant you know i like to use the word recoveries because you know we are people knew that those children our ancestors were there right and and they we're not discovering them we're recovering them and trying to do the right thing by bringing them home and we're taking on that work here in stalo territory as well we're going to be doing the same same work so many communities are doing right now at Stahlonation and on the St. Mary's site in mission as well. And there's going to be some tough years. Like, you know, that's the reality of this current situation. It's going to be some tough years. And, you know, it was a challenging couple weeks, months after

the discovery. I had phone calls from elders and who were triggered, who were crying to me over the phone. And that's heavy, right? And, but I can't imagine what our survivors are going through right now, the Band-Aid being ripped off without any notice. That's one of the things that we would have appreciated as leaders is like, give us a heads up that this is coming, that this

discovery, this recovery is coming the first one into Camloops so that we can prepare our survivors. We had people from Chatton who went to Camloops, Indian residential school, and then to see the impacts of this had on some of our elders is just, you know, horrifying. And we held

a ceremony in our long house for our survivors, and the ones we lost not too long after the recovery of the to Kamloops children. And it was really powerful to be in there and take such a negative subject and negative experience and turning that into something to uplift and come together as a community and to really show our support for our survivors and then and respect the ones we've lost. And I think to me that was such an important piece that we needed to do as a community. and now it's, now what are we doing as a collective to really help heal, you know, as a community as well.

And that's where now I think this focus on social and health in my own community and at a larger picture now my role is in the health authority. I think we're trying to take this shift on focusing on the mental health aspect of all of these individuals and the families impacted by residential school and these findings. Now what do we do putting in place to support those? individuals to ensure that they have the resources they need to heal and to succeed because it's not going away it's not going away anytime soon right and and these it's going to be a long couple years I just want to know your thoughts because one of the

frustrations I guess I had was it felt like this became a publicity thing that really disconnected the people I think we should be hearing from from the people who kind of snagged the spotlight and I just want to get your thoughts on that yeah I mean it is difficult. Like I try not to get too much into the media about all of it. But at the same breath, it's really unfortunate to see that the media isn't picking up on all of the recoveries that are going on right now either. I mean, I think we're up close to, creeping up to 10,000 children that have been found now. And have we heard anything since the original couple findings? No. Is it like, has it just been kind of brushed under the rug again?

It's pretty sad to see that it really hasn't gotten the attention. that I think it needs to, in order to really put it out there that, you know, this is, this is a horrific time in Canada's history. And it wasn't 150 years ago. The last residential school closed in 1996. You know, I was six at that point. And so many people, and so many of the people who were involved in that system and the trauma and the abuse and the abuse of power and the abuse that went on in there are still alive. You know, and some of the people who actually instilled that abuse are still alive. So, you know, you look at, you read, you see documentaries on Netflix and whatever about

how they're still trying to prosecute people who were involved in the, the camps, Auschwitz and stuff like that. And they're still trying to prosecute people who are involved in that process. What about the people who are involved in the residential school process? Yeah. You know, who's holding them accountable? Why aren't they, why aren't they attacking that the same way they're attacked? they attack the holocaust, you know, and it's such, and I don't want to compare or say that

one was worse than the other, and I don't want to, you know, I don't want to get in that, don't want to do that debate either, because I think both have had lasting negative impacts on so many people that, in systemic intergenerational trauma on so many people on different levels, but it's not being treated at the same level is, I think, that it should be. Yeah. Yeah. I couldn't agree more and I guess my frustration is just seeing

those individuals kind of utilize it as a publicity stunt to say I'm a counselor in the community and like follow me on Instagram and like I'll talk about this topic and it's just like this is not how I want this topic discussed and the fact that the media isn't turning to leaders like yourself

or just the indigenous people I think that could be spokespersons to have a serious dialogue it feels like we're going to the people who are going to say the same coined type of terms. You know, and I think it goes back to even, you know, the policies, the legislation, the acts that are still governed so many First Nations communities across this country, it's, does it take the findings of children to make that change? And why? Why does it take the findings of a residential

school of children to begin to look at racist, racist and oppressive policy? You know, it just, is, or are they, or is the government even going to listen, or is the government even going to take that as an opportunity to make change? I don't know. Like, we're so early on in this that I think you're right, though, it's using this as a means to capitalize on, on topics and capitalize on, hey, pay me to do a talk on residential schools. Like, no, that's not what this is about, right? It's about how do we heal now and how do we move forward while, making change so that, you know, substantial change to systems and policies and procedures and health. And how do we use it to drive us to make more change?

Well, and how do we acknowledge people like yourself who have put in in place to make sure that members have access to counseling? Yeah. As much as they need. And the fact that to me, that doesn't get any publicity or any acknowledgement when an indigenous community is doing good and is on the right track, it's very frustrating to me that that doesn't get any publicity in comparison and nobody's going out looking for that story and we did it we had intentions of opening that program soon but as soon as the findings came out we instantly pivoted and said nope this is a priority now we need to make we need to get this going now and right away within a month or so we had counselors we had the program set up in house and we had it going right away because

we knew right away this was a need and and this can't wait this has to be done yeah yeah i just wish that that got more acknowledgement because i think it's So it sets the, like, it's about role models for me. And that's, you set such a strong example in your community for catching things early on, for having that correct mindset. And I just really want to appreciate you for coming out today and being able to share your story and to share your mindset and your philosophy. And acknowledge the people who have helped get you here because I think that when I read your bio on your Sheacton website, it talked about your family. It talked about the people who helped motivate you to run for chief. and we have to pay homage to those people too

because without those individuals you might not have run. Shiatin might not have gone the path it has and we would have missed out on a role model who set such an incredible example and so I really appreciate your mindset and your philosophy on how you approach others on how you communicated with me

throughout planning this podcast and I just really appreciate you for taking the time. No worries and thank you. Thanks for inviting me. You know, I really enjoyed this. I think super easy discussion to chat with you as well And, you know, I really got to give kudos to you as well. I think you're doing some fantastic work in our community and even this, you know, the podcast and just bridging gaps even between, you know, your interviewing indigenous and non-indigenous role models in the community. I think that's really important to see, you know, and see how we work together and how we work separately, right?

And really showing those differences in similarities and bridging the gap. And I think you're playing a big role in that. So really kudos to you, man. I think you're doing some good stuff. So keep it up. I really appreciate it. And I hope to work together in the future. You bet.

Thanks again. Thanks, man.