Nuanced. - 32. Brian Minter: Gardening Icon & Community Leader

Episode Date: October 5, 2021

Brian Minter is a gardening icon, broadcaster, author, columnist, international speaker, husband, father and grandfather. Mr. Minter is the Chair for Tourism Chilliwack and a board member for Chilliwack Economic Partners Corporation. Brian Minter began sharing his passion for plants with British Columbia’s gardeners when, in 1970, he and his wife Faye purchased Country Garden Store, a garden shop that had been part of Chilliwack’s community since 1957.Mr. Minter, a University of British Columbia graduate (BA) and Master Gardener, quickly became BC’s go-to garden expert through his experience at both the garden centre and the display gardens. As such, He has hosted countless radio and television shows, is a frequent gardening columnist and is the author of Canadian Best Seller, ‘Brian Minter’s New Gardening Guide – Fresh Approaches for Canadian Gardeners’.A recipient of the ‘Order of Canada’, an ‘Honorary Doctorate of Technology’, and many other awards, Brian is well known from his magazine and syndicated newspaper columns and TV and radio programs. Brian is in demand internationally as a speaker by industry and gardening groups alike. Brian has sat on the boards of many community organizations including past Chancellor of the University of the Fraser Valley. Just recently, Brian received an Award of Merit from the Perennial Plant Association in recognition of outstanding contributions to the perennial industry. He was also inducted into the Gardening Writers Association’s Hall of Fame ‘in recognition of a lifetime of exceptional work and spirit promoting gardening and garden communications to the public.’Minter Country Gardens:https://mintergardening.com/about/brian-minter/Send us a textSupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

Brian Minter, I really appreciate you being willing to take the time. This beautiful morning, I'd first like to just start by thanking you because I've been listening to a lot of the work you've done, your talk with Tim McAlpine, and it's very moving to know that we have people like you in our community because for someone like myself, I started from very little, my mom's struggled a lot, And Minter Gardens has just always been a part of the community. And we've come here since I was a little kid. And looking back on it, it's such a huge part of the community.

And it was part of my development, my close friend Jacob's development. And getting to understand other people's passion more has been something that I've worked hard to do. Because I think people like yourself set such a strong example for others to find their passion and move forward. So I'm hoping you can do a brief introduction. But I just wanted to start off by thanking you for taking the time and for everything you've done for our community. Well, Aaron, thank you for the opportunity to talk about our community and all the wonderful folks that make up this community. And someone who's taking the time to pick up bits and pieces of it. And it helps people who would listen to this.

I think capture a sense of what type of community we live in. And everything we do is about community. It really is and inclusive of absolutely everybody. So that's a very important thing to me. It really is. So not that I'm special or community special. And I think we all contribute to that in different ways. Anyway, to answer your question, I think, first of all, very, very lucky to be born in this part of the world.

You look at the world today and the crisis virtually everywhere, the climate crisis. that's affecting us all and will as we go for children and grandchildren and so on. And, you know, if you had to pick a part of the world to, you know, be born in, I think we're both very, very lucky in that regard. I think the essence of always a deep appreciation. I remember being very, very young, and it wasn't about particular to people in the community. It was the community itself. I remember growing up, you know, in the early 50s, we've had the floods that came in to Chilliwack and, you know, in 49 and so on, and then 51 again. And what really captured me was this sense of everybody helping each other.

Aaron, believe it or not, back in those days, nobody locked their doors. The community was, we always helped each other no matter what, if somebody was out of something, going next door to, to, ask for things and you know they always gave more than they asked neighbors who continually looked after you and made sure we're okay in different areas that was that was the the community we grew up in uh it's a different time now you know unfortunately but but that's the the essence of what i remember uh we had a great um tulipak's always been you know kind of that that different community it's away from the big city uh and uh you know, a little bit isolated to still maintain the essence of a smaller town.

And believe it or not now, we're the seventh largest community in British Columbia, you know, so things change. But, you know, in going to school and year to grades, it was, you know, it was very much community and school as well. We had teachers, central school, had their history a few years ago when I was asked to speak at it. and how much that education in grade school made a difference to me. I lost my mother when I was 12. And to have that school, you know, it's a support for me was absolutely great. And, you know, the thing is, in going into, you know, all through high school, that was my happy place. We had a family business, and my father worked extremely.

me hard. My mother was a nurse, by the way. She was a caregiver, so, you know, kind of grew up with that. And to be successful in those early days was tough. He was in the, he developed a floral business where he actually on 2nd Avenue in Chiluac had greenhouses at those days to be able to grow product to sell and flower shop. But he used to give me a sense to get products for, you know, special events in people's lives, weddings or funals or special events. He would go to drive to Vancouver, which is two and a half hours back in those days to Vancouver. He would stay overnight, sleep in his small van and get up in the morning. And, you know, when it opened at 6 o'clock, get when he did it and drive back to Chilliwack.

And, you know, it was just very, very, I grew up with that environment of, you did everything you could to help people and, you know, be successful at the same time. And it was tough. And my father also started the first Rudy greenhouses in Chalawak. And we used to grow carnations, which was kind of a first and roses and phrysanthemums. And gosh, that was a lot of very hard work back in those days. After school, you'd be putting bands on carnations or disbiting roses or, you know, growing mums and taking soil out of beds by wheelbarrow in a small greenhouse and putting new soil in and sterilizing it. And, you know, that's the, and it was very difficult.

Growing up in the floral industry, it was nice because you became a part of people's occasions, from birth of children to, you know, special occasions like graduation or birthdays and anniversaries for people. And it was part of the whole history of what your community was. And we're so lucky, I think, to be a part of that. And then from that growing up, and I always worked after school, that was my book, which we just had to do. That was what families did. And I think in high school, it was kind of the first time you get to the age where you start thinking a little bit differently, had amazing instructors back at that time.

My favorite was my English teacher, Mr. Midzang, who was, I think, far ahead of his time in terms of his international thinking. he helped me develop a real passion for English and English was, you know, to me very, very important, you know, in terms of the writing and the poetry and so on, the communication, the art of communication for so many people. And so anyway, no, high school was great. I was very fortunate to win the highest award in the school and it was really about being of service, of sports and of, you know, scholarship in terms of, you know, trying to be everything. And that was just quite an honor for me. And it was also valedictorian of our grade.

And that was that, you know, my peers would say, you know, we think you're okay, you know, to be one of them. So that was kind of the essence of growing up. Very hard work, community business that was very much a part of the community. you know, in high school. And I stayed back in those days. We had grade 13. It was a tough go to get to university because they had connections back here to, you know, go back and forth was a whole thing because I did when we're in university. Faye and I were married at that time. We would often drive back at night after class in UBC and then help with a, you know,

in a special event that was very large back in a flower shop. and drive back for class and explain what we did and who we were. So, yeah, that was a great experience. High school, I also met Fay. We were high school sweethearts and she was a great basketball fan and she kept scored at the games and so on as well. So we kind of met there and just had a wonderful relationship that they carried on into university. And so, yeah, we were married and and quite young, both of us.

And so, you know, off we went to Vancouver and to university life when we come back in the summertime to work in the family business and so on as well. So it was really interesting and really fun. In university, it was kind of a different world for me. Faye went to business college. She was always a very sharp mind in terms of business skills and so on. So she went to business school. And she supported me as, you know,

basement suites and, you know, the biggest treat was an ice cream cone, you know, on Sunday. It was not, those are the best days of our lives. It was tough, but it was really good in so many different ways. So at the university, I really thought about being an English professor. I had a wonderful instructor, Mrs. Belcher, who I always remember put me in in the Honors Program. She just thought that, you know, I loved English and she put me in this program. And it enabled me to be able to get through this. Instead of taking five courses, you had to take seven courses, you had to meet a minimum grade level. And you, one course was just

an exam given by three professors at the end for a three-hour session. And that was your only exam. Wow. You had to know your stuff. And I know I wasn't capable of of doing all the books and so on. So we formed a group of about seven of us who met on a weekly basis. Each of us would do something. We discuss things and talk about it. And, you know, just the relationships of people working together. That was a really great teacher for me.

And, you know, I always consider myself kind of a dummy in the group. And they kind of carried you along and worked with you and, you know, that mutual support was awful good. And so that was something and a lot of, we had a lot of friends in university, you know, people just from all over, in the world would be there. And we lived in, you know, in a unique area. But the one thing is a opportunity came up to get into law. And I was always kind of intrigued, our local lawyers, I had the greatest respect for. And I thought, wow, these are great folks.

And the stigma of law back in those days was somebody who was really caring, had a good sense of what the law was in the community and conveyancing and all those sorts of things. And so I applied and, you know, I didn't think I'd get anywhere near, you know, but it was accepted out of huge numbers of people going. And it was funny, the way I looked at every situation when you had this exam to write for entrance is, whatever you thought would be the right thing in law, it was exactly the opposite. And so it kind of twigged onto those things. So that was an interesting exercise. So because we had worked in the summertime, and I came back to my dad and said, look, I really would like to go into this new career.

And he said, you know, I've quite crippled with arthritis. I want to sell the business. And then if you're not going to come here, but I need you for one year. So I reluctantly gave up that opportunity because you could not get back in. And we worked with him for a year. And in that year, we kind of opened a garden center as well as the florist business. Because I could see a limitation in the florist business. And we, Fay and I traveled to some of the older.

We thought very astute people in the industry, both here and the United States. It went down to Oregon in Washington. and found out the people who just were just great anchors in the industry. And we talked to them about their vision of the future for the industry. And they're such great people, and we just kind of fell in love with the industry. And we were kind of at the beginning of the Garden Center around the world. It had been in Europe for some time, but in North America it was relatively new. And it was a fortunate time because everybody was beginning to garden at that time.

And everybody did planted their own seeds and whatnot. That's what the community always did. But now it came a time to have newer plants. And as homes were being built differently, what type of plants would fit and build that landscape and create that surround around your home that was much nicer, both indoors and out. And so it was incredibly successful at that time. And the nice thing you're about the business was people, no matter what walk of life they were from.

It was so wonderful to be able to, everybody was equal in gardening. There was no, and nobody was better at it. It's just that people had a passion for it. They loved it, they all did it. And at that time, I would say the ladies were far more into it. They had that greater passion, but I'm seeing that shift today to young men as well.

And so it's a shared passion. And in the 70s, gardening was the number one leisure activity in the world. It was in the front page of many magazines. And so, you know, the movie stars, right, garden. So it must be okay. And then so we had this whole whole history. And at that time, as we're growing in business and so on, on a Christmas morning, we happened to just roll for a drive as my wife's parents lived.

in Harrison. And I just drove off the road for some reason where Menter Gardens is right now, just looked at the property and said, wow, this would be a great place for a garden. And we talked about it over Christmas dinner. And Faye's dad saw the lady and said, would you be interesting in selling the property? You know, unbeknownst to us. And she was. She was a very nice lady. And so that started this whole process of, you know, Menter Gardens starting. And And it was, you know, talk about struggles. It never has been not a struggle. It's always been tough.

We were turned down by every bank in Canada. And, you know, the interesting thing was a credit union at that pick at a time. And the manager, Bernie Proff, came to us and said, look, we've been following what you're doing. We think you guys are a very important part of the community. We'd like to help you get started. So that was like amazing for us because of Bernie. I think it was, he just saw the potential of that. And so the, we got initial financing to get going.

And Aaron, today we look at, oh my gosh, one, two, three percent. The initial loan for almost a million dollars was 17 and a half percent. Oh my gosh. Our operating was 22 and a half percent. Wow. And that was very tough. It really was. And we did that for, you know,

numbers of years. So, you know, there was, it was always a struggle, but the gardens were absolutely amazing. We had a chance to work with some incredibly great people to get started. Faye's dad in particular, work so hard and helping us get, you know, the place, you know, motivated and, you know, all the mechanics of what had to be done. And so, and many other good people gave us a hand. And I went to people who, oh, Mr. Livingston, Bill Livingston, who built Van Dusen Gardens and Greenland Park. And I went to Bill and said, so I got him. I said, you know, what do you think, Bill? And he said, you'll never do this.

It'll never come together. It's too big. He said, it's gorgeous, I understand. But he also made some very good points. So through all the things that happened, and believe me, it was tough. We were able to finally, you know, get the gardens built and open it up. And it really was a magical place. It was very, you know, quite, we only had so many resources that we could get from the bank.

And so we essentially were able to put the gardens together, get it open. And every year, we made it better. We improve things and someone as well. We had great folks, we were surrounded by great folks to help us get it there. But it was, so that was kind of a momentous situation. that we're able to do. And, you know, Fay and I just work so hard. Fay is kind of the design person.

She has these wonderful ideas and concept. That's her nature. And so we did that. And then at the same time, back in the early days, when the Land Commission, which was the good thing, decided to, you know, isolate farmland, no building on farmland, which was very, very important.

It separated our community by the freeway. And so we thought we needed a presence in Sardis. So we leave some land over there and opened another garden store in Chilawak because we believed in our business, but if it was going to grow, we had to serve the entire community. And so that was kind of interesting. But we got that opened and we were very successful. And so from the business standpoint, Fay and I traveled a lot when we were young.

but we had some opportunities. We were connected a bit in America, and we essentially were invited to go on a tour of garden stores in Europe. And so, this is back in the early days when the 747 was, you know, just built. So I remember leaving out of New York, which was, you know, kind of an experience for us because we're both very young. But we got to see some of the best garden stores in the world. And one thing that always stuck in my mind is we went to Germany in particular, that there was a destination garden store.

It was kind of the first one in the world. And it wasn't like most garden stores in a community. It was outside the community. And it had beautiful restaurants and surround where you basically went there as a destination. And that changed the nature and that became the nature of garden stores in the future. what that was. And we saw them happening all over Europe and so on. And so the place we have here, you know, came up because we knew ultimately that that would be kind of the direction in which we wanted to go. So that from a business perspective, we were very fortunate. Things always seem to

open up. And I think it's about taking risks, always. And if you're going to be successful, you have to leave your comfort zone and, you know, get into a situation where, you know, you're under a lot of pressure to perform, and I think it makes you stronger, it makes you better, and those are kind of interesting, interesting things that we went along. In terms of family, my phase parents were always so, so great to work with, and my dad married again and to Francis, and they were really good. They basically ran the business very, very hard work, and that, where we started is when we, going back the time we took over the business, we bought it from my dad and that's where we, you know, kind of got the beginning and that whole scenario of where

it started. We're very fortunate to have two amazing children and they was, you know, raising kids as well as doing the books and everything else. You know, she had a very, very tough life. And of course, but, you know, Lisa was just amazing. She grew up in this environment. And, you know, a few years later, Erin, as well. And they are amazing, amazing young people. But it's just from our perspective, that's what we knew. We had to fight hard to be successful and to be able to grow.

The same time, you know, family was incredibly important. And, you know, personally, I sacrifice a lot of family. for, you know, to help the business survive. And the both of us, well, Faye in particular, just raised the kids. And Lisa was very, very good at understanding business. She just, you know, took to it very, very well. And she did exceptionally well in school. She went to one of the first graduate of the business school at the University of the Fraser Valley.

And then because we had so many contacts in the industry, that's the one thing about our industry. You have so many friends everywhere. The nice thing is if I'm anywhere in the States, I have a friend to go and stay with overnight. They're friends. It's just, you know, that's the nature of who we are. So we made a lot of great contacts. And Lisa, when she graduated and college, wanted to go and stay with us. and learn the business from other people.

There is a Garden Center group, East Coast Garden Center group that we became friends of. Lisa went and stayed with them and worked at each of these really amazing garden stores in the East Coast for about a year. She spent time going back there and learned an awful lot from them. And of course they just loved her to pitch.

She's just a great kid. And, you know, she is, you know, picked up the savvy, and then, you know, she did come, decided to join us, which immensely helped her business because her vision and ideas. And she was so good at what she did. She was the only Canadian ever on the American Horticulture Board. Wow. That drives horticulture in America. And the director, the CEO, said to me, because we spent a lot of time in the States, all the seminars. learning constantly how to improve and what we are.

And he said to me, your daughter, he was going up and escrow was coming down. He said, Brian, we're so lucky to have your daughter. She's just absolutely amazing. So, you know, she made her mark in the world in that particular way. So, and Erin, as she graduated, she went to EBC and was very, very good at HR. And so she was really, I think, you know, a very caring person in so many ways. It's back in those early days at residence.

She was the one that would make sure female students were not alone. She was in a group that anybody who was up late in terms of a female, they'd go and walk together to make sure that go home safely. So she always had that caring attitude about her. And she decided that HR would kind of be where she was. So when she graduated from UBC, she went to one of the top. firms in America, a consulting firm. And she lived in Montreal and would fly out every Sunday night to a new destination to help various companies with HR. And she'd fly back on Friday night

home, do your laundry, stuff like that and go back. And she did, it was Accenture that she was working for. And so she was absolutely great. She was also the traveler and the family. And And she freaked us out all the time because she'd, you know, she'd get on a plane and go to the Scandinavian countries by herself, go to Turkey. And back in those days, you know, it wasn't quite there, but it was starting in terms of the change and the terrorist situation. But I don't know. Sure she was backpacking, you know, in Turkey and stuff like that. So very courageous young lady. And, you know, today she and her husband are both in search and rescue. So we're sleeping at night.

They're pulling somebody off a mountain somewhere. So that's kind of the family we have. And Aaron, after a while, we could see that we were growing quickly. She decided that she would give up some of that to come and help us out. So we're very fortunate to have her in the business as well. And she brought those HR skills to us as well, as well as her technical skills. So we're, you know, in terms of a family, we wouldn't be where you are without our two daughters, and they're absolutely amazing.

Awesome. Can you tell us about what it was like to lose your mother at such a young age? Because for a lot of our listeners, I know that they struggle with support, maybe their family isn't as strong. And my hope is that they can listen to people like yourself and learn and grow as a consequence because perhaps they don't have those role models. So how did you approach that? And what was that whole experience like for you? Well, it was tough because when you don't have brothers or sisters, you're pretty much, pretty much yet.

But it was very difficult because my dad had to work hard to be successful, and it was very much business. So we had a great, my grandfather passed away, but had a great grandmother locally in Chilawak, who was just really, really great. And our family overall was good. and my mother's parents were in Kelowna, and they were great as well. So having that support was great, but to be very frank, you're pretty much on your own, and that's why I say back at Central School, you know, the teachers sort of wouldn't treat you special, but, you know, they were just, you had the sense that were kind of looking out for you. But it was, because you're very much alone, you feel that, because that was, you know, very, very close to my mom.

How did you lose her? How did you lose her, sorry? Oh, cancer. Yes, and she was in her 40s. Right. Yeah. And so, but you get through it. You know, you simply do.

Every day it gets a little bit better and you just, you know, you learn to build other relationships with people. And I think that's where, you know, friends and associates and people. And that's where still at that time we had that feeling of community where, you know, people were kind and and so it's but no you life hands you situations and the secret to every individual is how you deal with that situation and it's it's devastating and it's tough but you have to you know move on you can't dwell on on you know getting a bad hand of cards you make the very best of every situation and it's tough believe me I know that but you get through it.

And so, no, it's, and there were no support groups at those days, right? You did what you did. But, yeah, it was, it was, and I still, you know, here I'm 74 years old, and I still remember those, those days. But, you know, you learn so much in that situation, and you can't depend on people. And you learn to be very independent on yourself, you know, in terms of what you're doing.

And that independence is a good thing. It teaches you to be stronger and also the other thing is you tend to appreciate people a little bit more and, you know, not be quite so insular, but to be in a situation where you can help other people. I know many youngsters have lost their moms or whatever and I have a chance to, and just as circles I know, to talk to the young people and say, you know, I've gone through that and know it's like you can do that. And so it's, you know, it's tough, but you rely on yourself and build your own character. Because remember, it's all about how you deal with life situations that can make you kind of who you want to be. For sure. And I'm interested to kind of understand more where the community came in for you. Because for myself, growing up, we had very little, but people like Ron Laser from decades and the owners of the Royal Home hotel, the owners of Creekside, they were all so supportive that not having a father,

there were always community supports and I didn't know a world without that. And so when I didn't have other supports, I was able to lean into the community and that's really given me a stronger respect and understanding of the importance and the impact community can have on a child. And so I'm interested to know how did that develop for you? Because I'm sure a lot of people who know who you are, like Brian's a community person. He's very community oriented. Was that always, was that just a product of being a part of the Chilliwack community and seeing it every day? Or was there certain moments that really made you go, community is an important aspect for me because of how I've been treated by them?

Yeah, and right from that very early time back in the early 50s growing up in a community where everybody looked out for each other. It was small enough back in those days and it was a time where there was huge trust everywhere. So I kind of never forgotten that, but also during the time of growing up, you know, the local business owners, like a lot of them are mom and dads, right, and with their kids. And they, you know, I can remember several businesses like your decades and other folks for you for you who would go into the store and they kind of give you a special attention. And, you know, it's, there's quite a few businesses like that. I remember one of the fellows who did not have, you know, children or whatever, when the Rotary Club would, would to bring your sons or daughters to Rotary, he would invite me to Rotary.

And, you know, that was very special for me to be, you know, asked by someone. And that was, I grew up in that situation of, yeah, you're treated like you're part of this community. You've had some tough knocks, and we're going to, you know, just respect you for that and help you along. So, and that still goes on. Today, we live in a different world, but in the smaller part of each community, there is still that absolute caring and making sure that, you know, we have a friend named Rusty Rimer, who is probably one of the, you know, the greatest people. He's an architect with his son, and he's helped us, you know, create and build and all the things that we've done. on here. But he is constantly going to young people and he'll come and sit down a restaurant

with him and, you know, how can I help? How are you doing? How's your life? And so, you know, there are people like Rusty out there who, for no other purpose, I can try to help, who give their lives to helping young people in so many different ways. And a lot of people don't know that. There are people out there who care. And, you know, that'll never change. I don't think and there's always that group you know all we hear in the media is you know how difficult things are and how challenging things are around the world and so on and we never hear about these these heroes who are just amazing people and there's a lot of them out there so we can never forget that you know when you look at your community there's all aspects of people and but there's

that that core of really great people who are very sharing and very caring out there so yeah that's Yeah. That is one of the things that I'm hoping to bring about with this podcast because I think of my grandmother who recently passed away, Dorothy Kennett, and she ended up taking in my mother, La Linda Pete, into her home from Coqualeza Indian Hospital and raising her as her own. And then when my mom had me, raising me in a similar way. And so those impacts, knowing that I wouldn't be here today, had she not taken in my mother, had she not supported me, I would likely wouldn't be here. gives me this profound understanding and respect for the impact an individual can make. And my hope is to capture stories like yours, stories like Trevor McDonald's, Tim McAlpine, these individuals who make such a difference. And my hope is that we can always go back to these stories and learn more from the people who kind of pioneered Chilliwack, who pioneered the communities and tried to bring people together. And so I'm also hoping that we can talk about your connection with your wife, because I think

from what I've seen, a lot of people are very interested in Minter Gardens, as am I. But I think the true beauty is that you and your wife did this together from such a young age and kind of did it all together. And I think that that story is so, when we see it in movies, when we see it on TV, many people scoff at it and go, that's not realistic, that's not possible. The divorce rate is 50%. What do people expect yet? We have individuals like yourself and your wife, Fay, who set such a strong example.

and I don't want that part to be overlooked. I want to make sure that we talk about how you two met, how you proposed, and how you've worked together to build Minter Gardens and to build a family together, because I think that that is the most beautiful part of this whole story. Well, you know, love at first sight, I guess, is something in terms of Fay. Just in high school, it just happened to catch her and see her just on the off chance. And, you know, I'd asked her out on a date and so it was one of those things.

I just, you know, I got she was an amazing person, very bright and vivacious and full of life and, you know, volunteered and did a lot of great things, was smart. And just, you know, a really good person and very caring about so many situations. So, yeah, and it was, you know, her parents were amazing people. And so it was nice to, to know, the connection because not it was Faye, it was her family. Her sister was amazing. Her brother was amazing. And so they kind of invited me into their family, which was very, very nice.

How old were you at the time when you first? I was 18 and she was 15. Okay. Okay, so we were, we were quite young, but the, you know, life, life happens when life happens. And so, but so the tough part was when I was going university back and forth, you know, she was in high school. And so we'd, you know, get together, drive back and I'd work, you know, work during the day, but we'd, you know, go out after in evenings and enjoy each other's company. And so, no, it was just a process of learning about each other. And we just, you know, hit it off as something that was very special.

I do have to say, though, you know, we got married in December 27th. When I was going to school, she was now in Vancouver at the business college. And so everything we did, we had to do. There was no honeymoon right. There was no week. We just could, you know, get back to life and get back to work. Our whole life has been like that. There's been, you know, no extended holidays or that type of thing.

We just, we work very, very hard. I have to give her the amazing credit because she has vision. I would come up with these stupid ideas. She was a level-headed person that say, okay, is this really realistic? And can we do this and how we did it? But she was so creative that it was, you know, I could never have done it myself without her, constant, you know, keeping an eye on the bottom line, are we going to survive this?

Because, you know, often we put all the chips in the table and say, you know, is it worthwhile to do this? Yeah, because we'd both grow. But her talent, being able to, I would have this crazy ideas, but she's the one that would be able to creatively be able to make it happen and the realistic approach to things, which, you know, I'm off, you know, on the next thing. But no, it's, it's the two of us together, I think we ever did that. But, you know, she knew all the risks and she took all the risks and was willing to do it

and so supportive for the ideas. And unfortunately, you know, because I'm more connected to the community, she would, you know, not get the recognition that, which always, you know, It bothers me, but because she deserves, you know, more than I do. But no, it's tough, Aaron. There is no easy way around this. It's just, you know, any couple who runs a business together will tell you how it is to be able to have a private life, a family life, and in a business.

There's, you know, that's the, it's a tough goal. And you go in every situation, you go from, you know, there's always a crisis or always something that happens that you need to deal. with. And, you know, it's having the strength to be able to see it through and the good times and the bad times. And I keep saying when I was a chancellor of the university talking to the students. And my single message was life is tough. You know, it's not how you act and perform and run your life when things are going well. It's how you act and perform and work with other people when there's a crisis and how it's going.

That determines who you are. That's the core of what it is because life is not always, you know, fair. It doesn't make appointments. And so it's being able to go through those really tough times and get through and you think there's just no way out. It's going back to that hanging in there, you know, and, you know, just having a thing. I'm going to mention one thing for anybody who has. has the opportunity.

Fia and I both took the course together, is Dale Carnegie, of course. And Aaron, I would suggest that to you as well. It's about human relations. And it's understanding that people essentially, we all live our lives, but we all face similar situations. It's understanding people and their roles in life. And little things like, you know, the most important sound,

to anyone in the world is a sound of their own name. So, you know, using people's names for them, learning their names, and that's so important. You know, hi, Joe, hi, Sally, it's good to see you type of thing. And also when things go wrong, the only things go terribly wrong, you know, it teaches you how to look, what's the worst possible situation it can have here, happen? That's the worst.

And virtually never is it that situation. It's always something that's less than that. being prepared for the worst mentally preparing yourself and you know it teaches you how to get through the very difficult situations in life but also how to respect and understand other people that's what it's all about and again learn people's names and you know the old adage of you have two years and one mouth you know act in that way you know learning about people caring about people and building relationship with people and so that's that's a course that you know I carry it with me all the time.

We drop off the wagon, we fall off the wagon all the time, right? But that's something I would really recommend to everybody. And not just read the book, but to the Dale Carney course, it's out there. It is one of the best teaching, and I'm sorry we don't teach it in our schools. Yeah, I don't disagree, and I think that that is something I hear a lot of my peers talk about, is I don't know how to approach people. And that's one of the common concerns I see, is this how to. do I relate to people? I'm also interested if we could go a little bit more into some of those

struggles that you and your wife went through and how you approach to that because within my own life, growing up, I've always tried to just deal with it myself, figure it out myself. And now having a partner, Rebecca, making sure that I work with somebody else, get her viewpoints, make sure that we collaborate because that helps me see things from other perspectives. But it's something that's taking me a lot of work to do because growing up it was just like either you figure it out or you don't have food on the table kind of mindset and so being able to move beyond that how did you and fay approach that or were there any times that stood out that would help listeners be able to incorporate that within their own lives because i think we're very much right now in a

society where it's like figure it out yourself uh don't look to your spouse like a lot of my friends they don't look to their partners for wisdom or advice or um helping hand they're like we're close we hang out together but when it comes down to it it's me and so i'm interested to know how how do you to communicate when you're making tough decisions or facing a crisis? Well, first of all, you have to work together because otherwise you're, that's the beginning of the end of the relationship if you, if you don't. Faye is very smart and she has, you know, good instincts in terms of that. And, you know, going back to Deal Carnigars, we both drew on the experiences from that and

how do we, you know, how do we get through this type of thing. But no, it is, it's bouncing it off each other. So how are we going to handle this? What if this happens? How are we going to, you know, get through this? And in many cases for almost 40 years, you know, with the huge debt we had at the gardens and our main business having to subsidize it to keep it going, you know, we could fail at any time.

It's always that possibility out there. And so, you know, we've, we've. had 40 years of that is just and other things that happen in life. But it is you have to bounce it off each other and as tough as it is and and it's just appreciating and listening to your your partner's perspective on things and you know this in the good thing is being able to not you just hate doing this, but when someone points out your mistakes, you know, I don't have that mistake. Well, you really do. It's, you know, listening to that and understanding that, hey, you know,

you're making a lot of, you don't do a lot of things well. How can you improve? And, and realizing that sometimes you're not always right. And, you know, in many cases, it's because you do things in a certain way that doesn't work out. So how do you go back and correct that? And I think it's self-examination as well, looking at it and saying, yeah, that really was my fault. Or we got in a situation because, you know, we did this and so on. So, and you have to remember the other thing that I always say to young people, particularly is, you know, the best thing you can do in the world is fail. The absolute best thing you can do.

It teaches you so much more than being successful. You learn from failure. It's the best teacher in the world. It's the hard-knock teacher in the world, but that's one we all need. Somebody who never fails or never has a but not, they don't really have a sense of what life is about. And maybe to appreciate how other people are going through situations and how can you understand somebody else when you haven't been there and done it yourself. So it's accepting your own infallibilities and say, you know, these are my mind.

weaknesses and I have to you know that's the handicap you play with in anything in the world right is you know just learning that you're you do make a lot of mistakes and how to improve those mistakes how to learn from failure and then do bad things or silly things or goofy things or whatever you know it's okay to do that because it happens to all of this but how do you learn from that how do you grow from that yeah wow that is really good advice for people and I think something that we need to hear more of is this willingness to face adversity, make mistakes and grow from it. Can we also talk about your

decision to have children and what was going on in your life during that period? Because as I'm seeing, there doesn't seem to be this same desire that I've seen growing up to have children and the benefits and the community spirit that comes from that. It doesn't seem like that's being promoted right now. So I'm interested to understand how Yeah, that's an interesting question. You go back all those years, but I mean, first of all, back in those days, in the 70s, it was pretty much the tradition that, you know, you would grow up and have children. I think part of it is being able to create a new life that was part of who you are.

We're not going to live forever. So how do we take what we are and create a new life that would perhaps be better than ours? I think that, you know, I never had brothers or sisters. So for me, it was so very important to do and have children. You know, that was my only family, right? Essentially at that point. And so, no, I think it's a question of, of, of, it comes down to the essence of what family is.

And it's more than, to me, more than just two people. I mean, although in today's world, that is a family. It's a new reality. And you have to understand people's perspective today from all walks of life. So maybe that is a family. But back in those days, it was in our personal lives and from the history of our own families in terms of, you know, you look at your history. You don't think of that at the time, but the sense of wanting to build a family and create a family that you could share things with and teach things with. And it's, you know, it's a very good question.

It's a very tough answer to that, but it's a sense of creating and building something. In today's world where we have a population, you know, are going to be 9 billion people and the earth can't support it. Those are different questions. There's new things that come into that to say. But essentially it's, and maybe you can create something who, a child or whatever, that has an opportunity to do things that other people don't see and create something new in the world. And so it's a whole combination of things, I guess it would go through your mind. Like initially you don't think of all those things if you just want to have, create a sense of family around you. And I think that was really the big thing is the operative word you keep using as family.

I think that was really the driving essence between wanting to have children. I think that that's so valuable because I kind of think about where we are right now. But I also think about what matters. And it feels like right now in our society, career is top-notch for most people. When you ask, what do you do? You don't ask what your family is. And I look at indigenous communities, and it's still very much like, who's your family? We don't care what you do.

Good job for you for having a career. But what matters is what's your last name? Who are you related to? How might we be connected? And your family values, I think, are so important because it seems like something that seems to fall like third rung on the ladder for so many people right now. And I think that we miss out on so much that cultural piece. And that's something my mom and I missed out on was this feeling of like a real strong culture

kind of later in my life. And right now I see such a value in the family dynamic, being able to have parents, being able to have grandparents, being able to have those supports. And I know that that's a dream or a luxury for so many people right now because maybe their parents don't understand how to be parents, how to support their kids and how to relate to them and understand their struggles and be a supportive person. And I think that how part of the reason for the success of Minter Gardens is that you bring that same. value to community, to culture into Minter Gardens. And so I'm interested to know how you connected with your children and how you approach to being a parent because I think that likely that sets such a strong example. And then we can move into Minter Gardens and how that carried over because for me,

Minter Gardens was a place where we celebrated like Halloween and Christmas and you had such festivities going on here. So I'm interested to know how that started for you in the home. How did you approach that and how did that translate? into doing celebrations here? Well, it's kind of a mix thing. You know, certainly not the best parent in the world. I mean, we grew up in an environment

where you're always under a lot of pressure for so many things. But part of the, and it's actually quite interesting, whatever seasonal things are important. And in terms of, I think, family's life, you know, there's always birthdays and, you know, that in anniversaries and, you know, the birth of the children, that type of situation. But also there's things in society and how you take this as different. We just had a very personal interpretation.

What is Valentine's Day? And I keep writing articles in the newspaper. It's no longer about your sweetheart. It's about people around you who you care about. And it's a chance to remember these people in your life who are important. And you go to Easter. Easter is a Christian holiday, you know, celebrating every birth. And it, but it, you know, somehow shifted like Christmas away from, you know, that to, you know,

bunnies and Easter egg hunts and so on as well. And, but, you know, so, you know, so, you know, every day. season, Thanksgiving, getting together with family, and Christmas, of course, I mean, the world, whether you're a Muslim or, you know, any other domination, you know, Hindu religion or any of the religions in the world, it's funny. I get phone calls from people because, you know, in TBC, I know everybody, Brian, I need a Christmas tree. And I want to tell him, I'm a Muslim, but I want a Christmas tree and I can't find. Can you get one to be in Vancouver and do something like that?

You know, those types of feelings transcend a lot and people connection because we live in a very diverse world of many different people. And early on, I think we discovered that, you know, our kids are very much a part of that because Easter, they would be Easter monies, both the kids. They would dress up on Easter Kong and hand out candy to young children and so on. And so that's sort of the connection we had in terms of family. And, you know, the various seasons, they would dress up in Halloween costumes and so on.

So the seasons, because we found that we're so fortunate, we first of all, loved our customers because they were the reason we were here. Without them, we wouldn't survive. And we saw young parents coming with children and their grandparents and that sequence of young people, you know, becoming the moms and dads. and them becoming the grandparents and so on, those relationships were important to us. And through the seasons of the year and the celebrations of various aspects of what, you know, society did was a chance for us to connect with people.

And, I mean, the little things like, you know, getting little some people that, thanks for doing that, our kids really enjoyed that. Or grandma really had a wonderful day because, you know, you said hi to them, you did something special for them, they gave you Easter candy. I guess you're talking about community,

and it's, what experience can you provide people that you work with and associate with and whatever? What experience can you provide that lifts their life a wee bit? And I think that's it, and our kids have always been involved in that, willingly or Easter money, But the point is they too could see that by doing things like that, it's touching people and giving them perhaps an unexpected experience that was just, you know, maybe that was just the one thing that made their day happy and all the way through the year. It's just what could you do to help people have a better experience?

And that's what we always did. We did it as a family. And I think all of us had input in how you could do that. And, you know, the things like here, the light show we did for many years, we never made money. It was always, you know, could we do something that provided a neat experience for people? And the reward was people saying, gosh, I really enjoyed that. That was just nice. Nice you would do something like that and that type of thing.

And that's all it was for. It was for nothing else. It certainly, you know, nothing we did made. money. Some of the things like the light show, it just became too expensive to do. And, you know, the little sidebars you never hear about is, you know, when it's raining, we had the best, you know, electricians helping us get things set up. But it was never enough of generators. So some of the lights would go out and I'm behind some of those things on the ground in the mud, holding cords together. So they would, you know, or a lady was looking at something else and drove off in the mud.

And here I am late at night myself, pushing her car out of the ditch because, you know, back there. And just, or a cold night, a lady came with a wheelchair here, and she was by herself. I don't know how she got here. So I'm pushing her through in the east wind blowing, you know, kind of, yeah, you know, it's those types of things that really make the difference. So it's more about creating an experience for people to make their lives just a little bit fun. and for just the purpose of being able to do that, period. That's what it's about. That is so amazing because I remember going to central school

and then they would bring us here and we would get to have these amazing experiences and be out of the classroom for a bit and learn about the environment, learn about plants, have the light show, the train, all these different unique experiences and to know that that was all a personal sacrifice to your business and to yourself and to your energy.

It's something that I don't think gets said enough because the good contributions that people do in the community can sometimes be just taken for granted. And so I'm grateful that you mention that because I think of the town butcher out in Sardis and the impact he's made in regards to trying to share food, share positive quality food with families, trying to make it a cultural experience. I had Bill Turnbull on about a year ago where I talked to him about the difference that makes for people. people who might not have that culture in their home, maybe they can't afford a Christmas tree or stuff like that, that this is an opportunity for them to have those experiences, to feel that culture, to see light still out front during the Christmas season. It's still like a, yeah, it's Christmas. And like, these are the people I look to because I don't put up my own lights in an apartment to see this is where I get my culture from. And we go for drives to look at all the other

people who've put up their lights. And that all comes at a personal sacrifice for other people. They have to buy the lights, they have to put it up, they have to arrange everything. And so I'm interested to know a little bit more about what those processes were like. What was the mindset behind bringing children from schools in, letting them see everything and letting them learn? Was that always part of the plan when you guys were getting started? Or did you see an opportunity there to help people get access to these ideas? Yeah, and I think it's just a question of really caring about your community and wanted to be a source. for an experience for young people.

And I'm a bit soft-hearted about Central because, you know, I was there. And so it's more a question of, you know, understanding the importance of youth and young people. And you know, the single-parent relationship, the children who are by themselves, children are in foster care, children, and so many really difficult situations in their lives. But also a chance for them to see something different. And, you know, the one thing about our world in terms of plants, they don't care about gender, they don't care about culture, they're just a plant who bring beauty and improve the world and so on. If we can connect that to people, that is something.

and teaching young people. And we've just had so many wonderful members of our team who were good at that and sharing that experience. And, you know, we still do it today with, you know, part of the pandemic. You know, teaching people the magic of a bulb when you put the system, it's not going to happen. And actually working with some of the teachers, particularly in gardening, to be able to share the teachers.

Teachers are very good at teaching, but a lot of them do not have experience in gardening. So I've gone to many schools. and try to explain, you know, what it's all about and the fact that, you know, it's very different because you're gone in June who's going to look after things that they're ripe and, you know, who's going to care for the gardens in the summertime and all the pitfalls that normally would come out. So just sort of giving them a sense of learning about the art of being able to grow plants and what it takes and how easy it can be, but how incredibly difficult can be. and again, how do you deal with the challenges and in a positive way. So it's, it's, yeah, I don't think we did that consciously. It's just one of those things you just do.

And I think with anything, you just do it because it just seems like the right thing. And so, but there wasn't a conscious plan to go and, you know, we're going to be this particular hero. It's a question of, isn't it great if we can do something like, that or share that particular bit of information. And it's nothing more than that, you know. It really isn't, yeah. Well, because I just have to thank you because, like, that had a direct impact on me.

I did, I think at 13 or 14, after going to Central and having those positive experiences, Jake and I tried to start our own garden on a balcony. It did not work out. But that passion and knowing, knowing you've always been, like, I figure in our community since I was a young child now, you absolutely did have a positive impact on my development, on my friend Jake's development, and just knowing that people have that kind of mindset of that's just what you do in a community has real benefits for the young people that you're impacting. And so I just want to thank you for that because I definitely am grateful that this place exists

and that you exist because I've known about you my whole life and the impact that you have on our community and that you are a pillar in our community from a young age. You've always just been a role model, whether it was always conscious or unconscious, in my mind, it did have that impact. Well, that's very, very kind. I don't see it that way myself. I just, you know, when you see so many great people in our community, we're all holding the community together and doing little things we can. There's so many people from all walks of life, you'd never even think. It's to be part of that community, going back to that very situation, it's who we are as community members.

And no one is better or worse, but we're all part of this whole situation. And it really, the narrow community or the broader community, that's what it is. And I go back to this thing about, you know, being Canadian. It, to me, means a lot to me. and how, you know, wherever you go and how you act, and this particularly in other countries, you represent who we are. I've been very disappointed in the past two years in terms of who I thought Canadians really were. I guess it's a mind-blowing situation. There are, you know, yes, there are people from different walks of life who look at the world differently, but we're

supposed to be that kind, generous, thoughtful, helpful country. And I, I, uh, I, uh, When you see the pandemic and how people are acting, who really are being, I think, in many cases very selfish and, you know, spreading something that is very harmful to so many people, the thoughtlessness and so on. I didn't know we were like that. One of the great pleasures in my life is inducting new Canadians into citizenship. that is just, you know, to me, absolutely mind-blowing. When you people from, you know, when you look at the people who are there, who are from all walks of life, had just, I hope you've got this out.

People who have had just terrible experiences in life growing up in countries where it's just not been fun, it's been really hard. and you have a chance to, it's already been done, but you have a chance to celebrate with them they're becoming Canadian citizens, taking the oath of citizenship. And I treat that as, you know, I'm sorry. It's okay. I think that this is so important because I think that we've really lost what it means to be Canadian over these past few years.

And your passion and understanding of what that means, I think is so important for people to understand. Yeah, and, you know, when you see, you look in their eyes and you do the oath of citizenship in English and in French, is, and you know, I, you know, make him make some mistake in French or whatever, and I laugh and they laugh with me, and it shows we're on the same page. We care about this country and want to be Canadian. And when we, when the ceremony is over to be able to greet them, And it's just that, you know, welcome to our country. You know, it's a new opportunity for you. It's also a chance for you to bring all your knowledge and all your culture and your skills to make our country better. And it is such a moving experience for me, obviously, but and the letters that I get and the feedback and customers out of the blue, you know, five years later say, you know,

Brian, you, I'm a Canadian and you're the author, I'm just so glad you were there. And just to be able to share our country with people and helping them have a better life. But at the same time, and this is so very important, is appreciating what they bring to make our country better. And that is just one of the, one of the absolutely great things that you can do. And to be in that position, to be able to do that is just so amazing. But to treat them with the greatest respect. And, you know, you're not supposed to hug them, but, you know, but some of them, the older folks in particular,

whether no matter what a culture they're fine, just to be able to, you know, they give you a hug. And boy, what an honor, you know. So that's, yeah, talk about, and it's a broader community, who we are as Canadians. And I think a lot of us have messed that up and we need to get back to being a country that was perceived as being fair and forthright and caring and helping other people. And so that's, you know, from the small community to the broader community, I think we need to get back to that. But we're just blessed to have so many cultures.

And I want to point out too that, you know, everything that we do these days, is about understanding reconciliation from our First Nations. My grandfather was very much a loner and I think I picked a lot from him as well. And one of the great things in his life was the elders from the First Nations around would come and sit with him on the porch at night and tell their stories.

And he shared that with me and that always stuck with me as being, you know, what a privilege that he had be able to have that and we at the university made many of the leaders and of these particularly the elders uh professors and honorary doctors and so on and i'm sorry this is this is tough i'm so grateful that you're sharing this stuff uh the um one of the ladies and when i would see them you know they came in they didn't know anybody it's like a foreign they're These are educators and they're, you know, wearing gowns and stuff like that. And I'd see these wonderful elders come in.

I'd go and sit with them and, you know, laugh and joke and get around and so on. So that was fine. Everything was done and whatever. And then they have a dinner to recognize them afterwards. And so this gentleman was with his family. And so I sat with another group. I didn't know who they were. and they were from support group for First Nations from the government.

And the data said, we should be very, very proud, Brian. And I said, why? You said, I'm sorry, too emotional. You should be very proud, Brian. And I said, why is that? And he said, well, I asked Mr. And there was one, several, it was wonderful. folks, what was the best part of the day is that the time they spent with you.

And I was also had the privilege of speaking to the Invasive Plant Council in Vancouver. And the people from all of the world were there. And the great thing about any of these meetings right now is we have First Nations come. And these folks are particularly amazing. They, non-discriminatory, you put, you know, the white folks in diversity and so on that and said, you know, this is, this is our heritage, this is our land, and we welcome you. And they were just so good at their songs and their presentation of, say, when you leave, you know, we want you to make sure that you and enjoy yourself and you get home. home safely. And so at the end of that, the gentleman in charge said Brian Minter, and I said, what now are you? He said, we want to thank you on behalf of First Nations. You know, of all the people, you have been so supportive, so helpful, and, you know, working

with us over the years. And so I thought that blew me away. I can't even talk about that. important that is to me, non-deserving, but also we are now with tourism. We are, I think we're the first in the country working with our local First Nations. We had a First Nations advisory council, Dan from Kamloops, who is a First Nations consultation firm. we got together for three days or parts of three days to talk about how we can work. And the best we could hope for was to be a trusted friend to have that relationship. So we spent three days of working together and, oh my gosh, did we learn an awful lot understanding this whole settlement issue and this whole privilege, the white privilege we have

and the entitlement that we have that never even give a thought to, oh my gosh, you know, here's these wonderful folks we live with and don't even appreciate and understand them. But going to that process and gaining their respect and trust. So we have kind of the first agreement we think in the country in terms of how we work together, that they will be on our tourism board as representatives of First Nations as we move forward together and building tourism and all the First Nation things. But it's those types of relationships that are absolutely so, important and so precious and

the beginning to even begin to understand the horrible situations that they've gone to residential schools, but to be able for them to see beyond death and actually work with us to build kind of a beginning of a new relationship. So when you talk

about community, you know, that's just an amazing community right there. So I've referenced in my grandfather. I've always had this, you know, really respect and we have so many First Nations friends who, you know, come and give you hug all the time. It's like, well, you know, how privileged am I, you know, type of thing. So that's sort of, you know.

That is absolutely beautiful. And I honestly want to appreciate you for sharing that emotion, because that is what I'm hoping people get out of this is to me right now. It feels like everything in the public forum is lip service. It doesn't feel genuine. It doesn't feel honest. It doesn't feel connected to the community. And that's one of my biggest frustrations. And part of the reason I started this is because I do believe we have leaders and role models in our community. They're just not holding political office in the federal government or in the provincial government. We don't have those voices who genuinely value the connections they have in the community. And so I think for a lot of listeners, they're going to get so much out of what you

just said and how this really impacts you because that is the whole idea of media is to remove the emotion. And I'm really against that because then you don't get to know people's true intention and it's clear through what you were just discussing that you care, that you genuinely understand. And I think of indigenous communities that don't have the greenery, that don't have the gardening experience. And I think of people like yourself as stewards so that when indigenous communities are ready, they can come here and they can get started and the resources, the knowledge and the wisdom of how to take care of these plants and how to take our role back as stewards for our environment and for our areas and for our land.

I think that that's such a strong example because I'm sure that many of those indigenous people do come here to learn, to reconnect with things that we've lost in our culture for so long. Yeah, and I think the issue is just being so intular and not understanding or having a clue about how important and the resources they bring. It's their stories and their history. And the one thing that I got out of the meeting with the two chiefs and Allison and I and Dave Shepie, who is such an important, he works for First Nations and he's so great, the five of us. but Chief Dave and Jimmy and Ernie both said, you know, when the elders talk to us,

they say, this is what we want you to do, but do it in a good way. So everything we've done to us right now is, you know, we're going to do that, but we're going to do it in a good way. And the understanding of how important it is to the context of what that really means. and totally oblivious to that until we had the sharing of that experience. So whatever we do right now,

even personally, let's do it in a good way. That is a beautiful thing to say, and I think this sets such a strong example because one of the frustrations I've voiced many times on this podcast is my frustration that we don't look to our elders right now. Western culture seems to look at seniors. You're done, you're finished, right?

Yes, go retire. We'll get the young ones involved, right? Exactly. And I think that that is such an error and not one that indigenous communities seem to make. They seem to have this very deep appreciation for the wisdom, the stories and the knowledge that the elders carry. And it's frustrating to me, especially during this pandemic, to see all of the care homes for the elderly just not really prioritized at all. Yet these are supposed to be our sources of knowledge on what was World War II about? What was World War I about?

Why were we involved in these? Why did this matter? Like, today it feels like my peers feel like, well, that was silly that we got involved in that war. And like, war is stupid. And it's like, you don't understand. You don't understand the disagreements we had with Stalin, with Hitler, with Mao. These were important issues that we were facing. And the willingness for Canadian troops to get involved to go into Afghanistan as peacekeepers, to stand up for Canadian values.

I think that comprehension, that knowledge is. so missing from my generation right now because we think that whoever made those previous decisions were silly. Why would you go to war? Why don't, why don't we just sit around and watch TV and relax? And it's like you don't understand what the problems that we're facing. Like, people were genuinely concerned about nuclear annihilation. And that just doesn't seem to click. And I'm very worried about that because to your point about this pandemic, it doesn't seem like we have that deeper knowledge on what it means to be a Canadian and how to represent our community, our society, how to go abroad and represent as a Canadian. And I think that it's so

important that people hear your approach because it does set the example and it does feel like something that's missing from the public conversation. Yeah, absolutely right. And I become just very upset when I see the level of, you know, it doesn't matter who it is as a public figure, the disrespect that now is out there openly. And it's, that's not who we are. That's not my definition. Yes, you disagree and you disagree vehemently and you get that out. But the level of disrespect is just not who at all who envision this as we are as Canadians. You know, we're diverse and we disagree and we, you know, have a different view of the world.

We all do in our own way. But we do it in a way that communicates well and articulates well. But when you get to that mob situation and the thoughtlessness of unvaccinated, people. And there's many good reasons why people would become a vaccinated. We appreciate and respect that. But when you take it to a level of disrupting the health care workers from doing their job of saving people and helping people, there's no excuse for that type of behavior. And we're seeing more of that, that worries me a great deal. That really does upset me. All the things we talked about, family and community, where's that gone? Yeah.

You know, that is very disturbing to me. Yes, and I hope that through hearing this, people can look at things from a different perspective and grow from listening to people like yourself, listening to people like Trevor, who do work hard to serve their community, who do sacrifice their personal lives, their comfort, to try and bring things to the community.

As you've said throughout this, you've sacrificed to invest in the community and to have the community make these certain decisions and approach things in this way, is, it must be frustrating because you've invested so much and that kind of reaction, especially to healthcare workers. Like, I still remember, I guess it was a year and a half ago now, when we were all banging and making sounds to try and support and show our gratefulness

and protesting outside of the hospital, I think to your point, is the exact opposite. It's whatever the reverse of us all stopping at 7 p.m. and banging our bells and pots and pans to show our support. It's the exact opposite. it. And I think that there is a level of thoughtlessness and sticking it to people that is very concerning. And I think that it misses that mark on community and being a role model and trying to set positive examples. Yeah. Yeah. That's precisely it. And that, but, you know, we have to work hard to bring that back.

Yeah. You're never going to do win anything through confrontation. It's fine, you know, common ground to be able to reason this through to, you know, and that, you know, that is how we have to be able to solve this problem. But we need to be doing it. Sitting on our hands is great. I wrote an article in the Vancouver Sun. I really appreciate Ian Mansbridge, Ian, okay, Hannah Mansing. I know him from CBC.

I've been there for so long, and we've often sit down and talk. He was interviewing two scientists on climate change. And, you know, as Canadians sitting on their hands about climate change, well, this is really bad. Yes, we're in a crisis right now. Ian asked two of the scientists, so what can we do as individuals to do something? And both of them said, well, you know, find your like mates, build community within, you know. And I disagree with that. you know, stop driving your car so much, turn your temperature down a little bit, stop consuming so much, you know.

Those are the little things, that's what Eam was trying to get at, you know, and you see the letters I got back from people saying, thank God somebody's thinking like that. You know, it is, we just have to get back to that. It's not somebody else's, it's a problem, it's our own problem as individuals. And we have to get back to the point of taking responsibility, you know, for the environment. You know, we all do so many things, and we can do it right now. We don't have to wait. Yeah. Can you tell us about that? Can you tell us what it's been like to have such a deep connection with the environment

and to have kind of watched what's been going on since you started this business to now see, like this conversation feels like it's been going on for 20 years now? And it still feels like parts of it are debated. From your perspective, what have you seen being in this industry for so long? Well, you know, I just wrote another article on, you know, from a green perspective, planting billions of trees. There's data now that, you know, planting more than billions of trees. Pakistan, of all places in the world, you would think in terms of, you know, because we so don't understand countries. Pakistan is a great country in so many different ways.

They're planting 10 billion trees in Pakistan. And we have a 10 billion tree program going on now in Canada, if they ever get to it and so on. But the questions is the ignorance, well, what type of tree, where are they going to be planted, who's going to maintain them, what size of tree are going to go in, and how soon is it going to have any effect? We're so superficial in all the things we do, we just don't have a deep understanding. It's the carbon emissions. We just have to get those carbon emissions down. So whatever that takes.

And we're as guilty. We have a furnace in our home. We have heaters in our greenhouses. And so, you know, we need in terms of the whole situation, we all need to do better and we need to start that very, very quickly. But coming and seeing what's happening over there, our green industry, I think, is doing a lot of things well and getting more trees and people's yard.

The pandemic is where people were. stuck at home around the world and they decided to make their homes or apartments or whatever more green, more beautiful, more welcoming. They've taken, stripped the trees out of the nursery industry around the world. Right now it's hard to get bigger trees because the nursery was selling everything, all of them, and not saving enough big ones to go into bigger sizes. So people have been planting and doing more green and more caring and surrounding them. And the young people in particular have been doing more. The younger generation right now are our savior. Gardening as we talked about early in the 70s was the number one legendary activity. It almost died in

the late 80s and 90s. Because people got away from it. The traditional home didn't exist anymore. Smaller home, smaller lots, postage stamp things, a whole number of situations. It's the millennials that drove the life back to green plants and green living and so on, and they're continually doing that. They're now a bigger buying share, the biggest, biggest buying share in terms of consuming plants of anywhere. And their view is, you know, it all started, oh, about 10 years ago, I was in South Africa giving a talk to the International Association of Garden centers and people from every country saying, I just don't understand. All of a sudden, the vegetable seeds are going off the rack. And it happened simultaneously worldwide. And people

wanted to plant. They didn't trust that people would die from some California. They wanted to grow their own plants, organically possibly can nutrition for their children and whole thing started. And they've been pushing it ever since. And so yeah, what is happening right now is they don't just do it and put a plant in a windowsill, they embrace the green culture and they embrace what it means. They understand that by having a plant in your home, it changes your level of stress, it changes your level of happiness. They care of nurturing that it takes to live a plant, it brings out a new element in people. And I give us talk to the garden writers in New York about, you know, the new reality of plants.

And it followed the world health organizations guidelines in terms of what they're they're doing in terms of green spaces and cities and how it changes so it helps feel socialized better. Every culture is different, every age group is different, but how much green space they need and how much is now needed in every city where World Health organizations is actually trying to get communities and cities of all types all over the world to be able to put this green space in. And this whole thing about a green apartment now is it being built. It's 10,000 trees planted on top and outside of an apartment, 10,000 trees are happening. Italian architectural firm is now doing that.

They've done one in Holland, they're doing it in Italy, and now they're starting. And China is of all places building the first green city, which is a whole new entity. But the Japanese scientists in particular have identified that when, and they can quantify this, when you go outside into a green space, you know, hopefully, hopefully a forest or that like for eight hours, two eight hour periods. When you're dearer for that time, plants give out an aromatic fight on side. And that fight on side has a chance to work on our bodies. And our immune system has improved by 43% in that 16 hour period.

And the production of white blood cells that fight off diseases and so on is increased by 56%. And that effect stays with us for about 30 days. Wow. So we now can scientifically identify that connection to green and how very important it is. And this is where green space and all these things. In Vancouver, quite frankly, is one of the great cities in the world for being able to be able to do that. And all the cities, I think of Surrey and the expansion, I get to work and write about the urban forestry and where that's going and so on. So there's a movement now to surround us with green.

And those things are all beginning to happen simultaneously, but people have to understand the importance of, you know, of what that really means. But it's so diverse and so technical, and there's so many holes in all the arguments and so on. But the point is it doesn't matter. Shift. Yeah. Consume less, you know, live in a cooler environment where you don't have to, you know, have your feet up and use less energy. and start that thing you process. But it's got to start now.

It's not, you know, it should have started 10 years ago. The environment lists where we're always the bad guys, right? And now quite playing through their, you know, they're the heroes in terms of having that vision a long time ago. So, yeah, but I'm trying to put this to answer your question in terms of our industry, we've been good players and we've been bad players and we need to improve what we're doing. But we are at least getting more green things in people's, lives. Yeah, I think that for so many people, myself included, learning about the air quality that you end up with, if you keep your windows closed in your house, you end up having worse air

than if you go outside and obviously inhale the air there. And so considering these ideas and being able to put it together for people so that it's accessible, I think is so important right now because for some people, they're like, I don't want to have to maintain a plant. And it's like, but you like you have to it's like people require different arguments depending on who they are and so for me it was like i don't want to breathe in low quality air so we have like aloe vera plants we have like snake plants we have we're trying to get things into the house so that we can be confident that when we're breathing in air that it's high enough quality so that we're able to focus on our work so that we feel comfortable in there and relaxed and i think that you're right

my generation is really waking up to the fact of like how do i make this a green comfortable space to work in, live in, and not have to stress so much about needing, like, there was a whole idea of like grounding yourself. And there's been different movements that have helped people start assessing the idea that like, yeah, it's probably not a good idea to stay in your apartment seven days a week and never go out into a forest. And I think that learning about the relationship with plants and how that impacts our immune systems, it's so important during a pandemic that it, that's another thing that frustrates me, that we haven't talked more about how to how to be healthy, not just how not to get sick, which is what it feels like we focused on, how to live

a healthy, meaningful life. Because talking to the artist Lucas Simpson, he goes out and he tries to draw trees. And he talks about how the tree feels like a real thing to him. And having Eddie Gardner, the elder on and him sharing how he talks about the trees. He didn't call them trees. He calls them the grounded ones. And changing our relationship, I think I mentioned to you that Paul Stametz came out with a documentary called Fantastic Fungi, and they talked about how trees actually communicate with each other through mycelium. And I think that one thing I'm really waking up to is that we treat plants like they're less alive than perhaps dogs or us.

I'm wondering if you can expand on that a bit. How do you view plants in comparison to the average person who doesn't have any gardening tools? They don't interact much with plants. how do you view them because they are alive? And so what is that perspective for you been like? Well, if I had a happy place in this world, it's up in an alpine meadow somewhere.

I had a chance two years ago to go to Switzerland. And one of the really great experience in my life is 4 o'clock in the morning to get up in the summertime and just take off of myself in the dark running up the mountain And being, the sun's coming up, being in the Alps with just so much color and beauty around, of so diverse and so on, to have the privilege of being in that location is absolutely amazing. So, you know, that my happy place, absolutely. And all my life has had the pleasure of being able to grow plants and work with plants and so on.

You know, you just have a, you know, quite frankly, a symbiotic relationship, you know, trying to solve problems when they're not doing well and help, you know, learning more about them and learning, you know, the intricacies of so many different types of plants. You just can't help but have a connection. And it's not silly or anything else. It just, you know, I've been around the world with growers who are very good growers. and we would walk into a greenhouse in Holland or anywhere else like that. And you can sense if there's something wrong. You could sense if a plant is wilting. And I really annoy some of our people here.

I can walk into a greenhouse and know that something needs water. You just have that six sense of knowing that. And other growers, you know, the same thing. And so when you're connected, your livelihood depends on them but you work with them it's it's more about you know it's not producing a plant it's producing a plant that's healthy and and survives it can can perform whatever you know provide shade or provide color or provide you know landscape beauty or you know it's it's learning how to do that the very best you possibly can and so that that is you know that's an

experience you care with care with you and young people are learning that you know they they first started they were very green at doing that and it's part because you know the traditional family or grandma would always teach the matriarch would always teach the kids that that went sideways and so they had to learn on their own millennials as a row of thumb that they didn't have the teachers and my grandmother was a very you know a good teacher to me in terms of that she She was a passionate gardener, loved things. And so, you know, it's the privilege of being able to work with plants all the time. And look, we're in surrounding plants from all different things.

That's really the beauty of what we're doing here right now is, is, you know, non-judgmental, but they suffer the same fate of all of us. You know, things go wrong. How do you fix them? And just when you think everything's right, Mother Nature steps in, And, you know, heavy rains or this cold weather, bitter cold and frost at the wrong time, as well as the insects and disease problem, who all deserve a place on this earth. You just have to learn to control the problems in a minimum way so that these plants you're growing are going to be healthy and nice. It's not destroying anything.

It's just controlling things to, you know, create that balance. Right. It sounds like you're kind of landing on that green thumb idea of being able to walk into a room and feel that those plants need watering. And I'm done with underestimating our relationship with the environment. I think that for too long, our society has kind of looked at humans. Like we're super special. Nothing else is like us. And therefore, we don't have this relationship with the environment.

And after learning that like a father tree or a mother tree will help their, offspring and move food to their offspring trees in order to survive through mycelium. After learning that, I don't have any excuse to ever question this deep connection we have with the environment anymore. That was really the nail in the coffin for me of like, okay, I don't understand anything because I didn't know that trees had lineages. I didn't know that trees had connections with each other. Like we have this superficial understanding that like that's just a tree. And I think that that is. likely the wrong mindset after learning that they can communicate with each other. So I'm interested

to know what your thoughts are on the idea of the green thumb. Many people say, I just don't have a green thumb. Do you call hogwash on that? Do you believe that people are more inclined to be relatable with trees in the environment? Or do you think that anybody can get involved and start to develop that relationship? Absolutely. Absolutely anyone. People believe because they bring a plant home and they don't know how to look after it. No one's taught them. And so they I've got a brown thumb. It's it's a brown thumbs we want to fix. The green thumbs are great. No, it's not a green thumb. It's a sense of understanding what a plant really needs to survive and grow. And one of the great opportunities I have, I deal with young people all the time and

older folks as well. So how we look after this plant? First thing I do is pick up a plant and put it in their hand and say, hold this. And they said, does it need water? And they all say, yes or no, because if it's heavy, it doesn't need water. If it's light, you instinctively know, virtually everybody does that. Husband and wife's times are often bad because they both have not as many. But any person, young or old, they instinctively know, and you pick up the plant and feel the weight, you know whether it needs water or not. You know that. And I said, okay, so now we know how to water, which is the single most important thing for them is because they're in a pot, they're isolated, and it's how you give them enough water to be able to grow. Next, they need some sort of indirect light or light

to be able to survive. They have to go through that photosynthetic process to be able to, you know, produce food and new leaves and so on. And also to do that. And the funny, I used to do the BBC for five years in Britain with the open line program. I'm in Chilliwack, doing a studio in London, answering questions in Australia or Dubai. And the same thing. So I go through the whole problem, like, okay, what's wrong with a plant? I said, funny, what are you feeding it? The answer is almost equivocally the same.

Feeding it? I'm saying, you've got to be kidding me. You're in Britain. The world leaders in plant. Anyway, understanding that plants need light to, indirect light, to be able to grow, they also need nutrient. Because every time you're water, you're leaching the goodness out of that soil, replacing that soil organically or whatever, but needing feed. So it's very simple in terms of being able to reposition plants so they're getting light, knowing how to water, and knowing that they need nutrient. And basically, those are the things that you want to do.

Then you deal with the whole problem of, you know, hidden things that you just have to, you know, like disease and insect problems. But basically, anybody can be a plant. They just have to drop their preconditions that you don't know. You do know. It's very simple. Those three things. And by putting a plant at somebody's hand, that's the beginning opening the door for them to understand. This is something entirely unique and different.

And these are just a few basics to make it survive and do well. That is brilliant. And I think has so many transitions over to people because I think right now we live in an excess culture. People eat too much. They don't drink water enough. They are likely drinking other substances that aren't nutritious. And they're not going outside enough. And so once you what do you think the human benefits are for people considering gardening? Because I think that it wakes, it hopefully wakes people up to the understanding that are you drinking enough water? Are you eating the right foods? Are you exercising and going outdoors enough? It starts to make you realize that this this very simple plant just sitting here, it needs these things, but are you getting these things? Because right now, like, buzz terms are like overworking, burnout, these ideas. And these are all terms to show that we're not taking care of ourselves. So when you get to work with people, customers who come in, what do you see the benefits being for these individuals who start to develop a relationship with the plants and hopefully carry those ideas over to themselves.

Yeah, and I really, we're beginning to make the connection between plants and people. We're beginning. We need to, like anything else in nature, we need to learn from it. And so I think that the millennials are leading the way. The boomer generation started the whole gardening thing. And I think they were doing it for selfish reasons, perhaps, you You know, my yard needs to be, my grass needs to be greener than my neighbors and, you know, I want to have a prettier home and all that sort of stuff, to the point where we got away from that and they're living in small spaces and a new environment and, you know, the reality of modern day living. Millennials have brought that back and in spades.

They are getting it and understanding, and they're becoming very good on it. They're taking it to really amazing levels. And as I mentioned earlier, I'm particularly impressed, and the ladies just get it. I'm sorry, there's so much better than males in terms of connecting and growing and whatever. They're just so good at it. But the young men now, from all walks of life, are now coming up to me and saying, you know, how do I do this? But they're good at it. They're studying it.

They're trying it. They want to grow the exotic. They want to grow beautiful watermelon chelot. They want to grow a beautiful cantaloupe. They want to grow the exotic and the different types of things. And they're trying so hard. They're becoming very discerning in terms of the plants. And that's what it takes is a discerning attitude to be able to pick from all the things

that are going to grow, which ones are going to perform the best with the least amount of disease in insect potential, the new breeding, and which ones are going to have the best flavor and so on. So as you get good at it, you become more discerning and look for those different things. But I see that as a general trend. And we're just so fortunate to be in a situation in our industry. And with me with being able to CBC communicate with people for so many years and all the other radio programs as well, to listen to people's issues.

You know, they come to you and say, okay. But there's your general consensus right now of, you know, this whole issue of letting your lawns go brown in the summertime is so silly. It really is. Yes, we have to conserve water, but we have to have better soils so the lawns we have can retain moisture longer and survive better. We have to have a water regime that will just keep them on the edge without wasting water. And the other thing is we need to do better grass seeds that are more drought tolerant and don't grow as much and so on, because lawns now sequester carbon, they produce enough oxygen in a very small area to keep,

people alive. They provide a home for a wealth of microorganisms in the soil and animals in the soil and worms in the soil to stay alive. They create an infrastructure that we're saying, lawns are bad. They're putting freaking carpet down right now everywhere instead of lawns. Right. The first thing for the environment and to being able to do that. So, you know, what's happening right now, and it's the older folks who do, the younger folks, I'm sorry, but it's It's not understanding the full implications of everything we have in nature. And being a good steward is being a good person. And yes, we know the benefits now of working with plants, the personal benefits.

And, you know, I think we still have not made that connection between, you know, this is what it takes to grow a good plant, what it takes, you know, is that the same apply to me in terms of, yeah, which it really does. I've never heard that before, quite frankly. So, yeah, learning from the plant to grow. Yeah, good thing. Right. So can you tell us about how people should get started?

Because one of, I guess, my frustrations is seeing the landscaping that maybe the city of Chilliwack or the province of BC does. But I never feel like it's connected to this is how we also take care of our environment. Like the idea that we would have trees that are particularly beneficial for producing oxygen near our freeway seems like, I don't know. know, to me, an obvious next step. Am I missing something in this kind of conversation of, like, on our freeway, we have this, like, spot of greenery.

To me, we should want to put things there that would help neutralize the carbon coming out of the cars. Am I out to lunch? No, you're not, but there's a whole, and I need to understand more about this, and I have a privilege of talking to, they're asking me, you're thinking next February, again, I speak to them on a regular basis, B.C. parks and recreation people in terms of environmental plantings. And that's exactly the topic I want to talk about next year. Last year, I talked to them about, you know, you think you're in the green industry and providing, you know, trade and shade and maintaining. You're not. You're in the healthcare industry. Please understand that first. Because what you do, and the

nature of urban forestry is to understand the balance between the, the, the, the, the, the carbon that we're creating and the carbon we're sequestering, how to be able to create that balance. Their bigger job is to convince citizens that what they're doing is a good thing. They want to cut down trees and constantly and not respect trees and so on and let them die. You know, that's the balance, the people balance in their job. But urban forestry now, they're getting it very, very good in terms of the amount of the percentage of cover that needs to be, in each community to prevent excessive sunlight, you know, hitting people and the ground, and the production of oxygen and the sequesting carbon, creating that balance. And the interesting

thing is it's new territory, but the climate is changing dramatically. The trees that we have today are not suited to the conditions that are going to be in the future. So when I interviewed some of the great people, that's the one thing about being a writer for the for the sun, they get to interview great people. They had a conference, green conference in Vancouver, and I asked some of the people from around the world, okay, what type trees should be using? And one of the brilliant guys from Britain said,

we don't have those trees yet. We're out, believe it or not, all over the world, going to some of the harshest climates, like Afghanistan and areas around there. Just brutal climate with no substantial rain or whatever, but tough growing. conditions, we're taking the trees from those, taking the genetics from those trees and building them in new trees, so we have trees that will tolerate the conditions that we're going in the future.

So coming back to your question, yes, everything is so complex today. There's no simplistic answer. You know, planting trees on the freeway, at least we have grass on the freeway. That's when they don't discount the power of grass. but being able to understanding what urban forestry really is and how they're getting better and better at finding the right plants

to be able to put in the right conditions and to be able to provide that balance or sequester as much carbon as you possibly can. So that's a great art that we have to learn. And so, yeah, it's coming. We're getting there. Brilliant. So could we walk through perhaps

the different levels, because I live in an apartment, but maybe let's start with a house. What should someone consider if they're saying, I'm not gardening just for my own benefit, but obviously I'll get benefits out of it, but what should I put into my home, perhaps my lawn, perhaps inside my home, that will help the environment, that will help make sure that I sustain life here, that I'm not causing harm. Yeah. Several things. There's been an interesting study from the Colorado State University in terms of the value of landscapes and the environment and the fact that we can't let them dry out

and look at how many trees are dead. You know the average tree in Vancouver has a lifespan of eight years? I did not know that. Absolutely. And I checked it with my friends in Toronto and they said, yeah, that sounds about right. We're four years in Toronto.

And it's because it's creating the right conditions for plants to be able to grow is really the thing. And that we come back to the home garden right now. is how many, and the landscape industry is as good as so many people are, sometimes they're rushing too much to be able to stick a tree in and do it for the least possible price, making a proper planting condition for a tree that we dig a hole and shove it in, but it's got clay below or, you know, the soles like in most apartments,

they just put the cheapest stuff in and plant in it, is creating the right conditions for a plant to be able to have a long and successful life. Choosing the right trees, first of all, that's not going to not going to have to be cut down or whatever. So making the right selection is probably a big thing in virtually that doesn't happen. Planting correctly, so they will continue because every tree and every plant contributes to the environment and so on. And then there's the things like creating a balance out there. The big thing, and thank you to millennials right now, the big thing is being able to have plants from early in the year, no matter where you live, till late in the year, that have flowers that produce both nectar and pollen

for all the pollinating insects. That's become a huge thing. And at the beginning of the millennial starting out, they would come and see, we put all these pollinators together. The bees are all over them. They say, God, that's what I want to have. Forget the plant. I want the bees, right? Because that's important to them. And so now we're making a connection of pollinators. And then when you look at lawn, means our two-cycle engines for mowing lawns, not good, right? We need to overcome that, and we are overcoming that. But putting microclovers into lawns, because microclovers work and build natural nitrogen in the soil. So a lawn will become self-sufficient instead of having to give it nutrient all the time.

And also, if you microclovers will flower, for producing pollen for our insects and so on. So there's so many things like that that we're discovering right now, I'm not going to put clover in my lawn. I want chemicals to get clover out of my lawn. No, no. You have to learn the new techniques. How do you attract pollinators? How, you know, digging a small little pocket of water that all the frogs are missing our frogs right now that can, you know, survive. And creating a habitat is what we want to do.

So it's not about us anymore. It hasn't been about us ever. But it's creating this new vision of what a green space is to below the ground and above ground to be a new habitat. And I'll tell you something else that is important to see. A few years ago, there was a great concern in North America about the loss of pollinators. And many groups went to President Obama and said, look, we need help with us. And he said, for goodness sakes, he had the wisdom to say, don't ask the government, you know, go and do it. yourselves. So many associations across North America got together, and including Canada and Mexico,

they formed a goal of one million pollinator gardens to be able to develop within three years. And so we watch very carefully, and that's specified, has to be year-round, has to have so many pollinator plants, has to have all the water for habitat and so on. And that goal was exceeded, mostly in America, but in Canada, and in Mexico as well. So one million pollinator are created, and that put five million acres. We're losing a million acres a year in North America to development. That put five million acres back in the habitat. See, these are the things that happen nobody knows about.

And so does that answer your question in terms of what we need to do? Yes, and I think I'd like to also talk a little bit about, since we're on the topic of fungi. As I've mentioned, I think just previously, I watched fantastic fungi with... I haven't seen that, but I heard it's very good. With Paul Stamett, and he's a mycologist. He's very passionate about that, and he believes that fungi is one of the ways that we start to address the pollinators. He found one of the fungi actually helps with bees and one of their wings not working properly, that if bees ate this certain fungi, that that would help fix that issue.

as well he's been doing research, I think, in partnership with UBC here in B.C of taking like four different plots of trees and giving them certain fungi and has proven that this certain fungi helps trees grow. So I'm interested to know your thoughts on fungi and how that interacts with plants. You have to stand back and observe nature, first of all. None of us have time to do that. But when people have problems, I'm saying, you know, you know the solution to this. You're just not thinking about it, observing nature, how you prune a tree, how you care for a tree. The tree tells you what it needs. The plant tells you what it needs. You're not listening. And so I'm being listening to that. And so many people will come to me with the fungus all

over the tree. And I'm saying in many cases, this is a natural thing. Don't get excited about it. I'm not going to harm the tree. It's okay. In some cases, Not my cilia, but the ones like that, for the tree to survive and do well, use an organic control to be able to take it away, minimize it, so the plant will be okay. In other cases, I'm saying that fungus is telling you that tree is dead, because how many times do we go into a forest and see fungus on rotting wood? Fungus takes care of in a very nice way without creating a lot of carbon, of taking dying and dead. add materials because it's a natural life cycle in forests and everywhere that the fungus will actually start breaking down all those trees into organic rich material for other trees to grow. And here's the big one that nobody is even cut on yet or heard about yet.

It takes about depending on the plastic and simplistic 400 years for plastic to create. A couple of Yale students or a few Yale students were in South America and made it a and in the Hague in Holland, another university professor made the same discovery. There was a fungus now, and I've just left the, I can't be the name, that it will take plastic underground in the absence of oxygen and the absence of light and break it down in 30 to 40 days. Oh my gosh. This is a fungus. So do we depend on fungus in this world? Absolutely. Absolutely. Do we even have a clue about important to this? I mean, we love mushrooms, right? There's a fungus. I mean, we eat it and so on. But we're clueless in terms of looking. And that's why, again, I love joking around, kidding around with some of my First Nations friends who are very much into native plants and which you eat and all their indigenous plants and so on. You know, we kid around a lot. But the fact is we're missing their knowledge. Yeah. Yeah. And we need to expand and understand what

knowledge is. I don't disagree, and I think of the BP oil spill. Paul Stamance was also involved in research there that showed that putting fungus where the spill was in certain plots to test it, showed that they could actually remove all of the oil from there as well. And so I do agree that I think we underestimate, first of all, nature and its ability to fix problems. And we need to work collaboratively with it rather than doing the same approach, which is how do humans fix it all by ourselves. It's like it's a very small-minded perspective. We need to do it in partnership with the environment. And I think that indigenous people have always kind of known that and tried to work symbiotically with the environment in order to support it. I'm also interested to know

what should somebody in a small apartment do? What are some of the smaller plants? I have aloe vera. What are some plants that you would recommend to somebody in an apartment that can't have the big trees or the grass? What should they try and do? May I just jump back to one of your last statements. Absolutely. Because we hate to leave the world in a spot where everything's going backwards. There's a couple of things. In terms of when I speak at a lot of park sports media across the country, now the thing is recreating wetlands in new architecture and design in terms of recreating wetlands, recreating what was there and the natural beauty of being able to do that in a way that people look at. But

where we have to get wildlife back and we have to get water life back and so on, that's a huge movement that's happening right now, is getting the waterways back where we've stolen them. That's happening in Florida right now in the Keys and areas like that. The other thing is little things are happening too in terms of there's a nice folks in Manitoba. I did an interview with the Vancouver Sun. They have developed scientifically 15 different types of graphs.

that we're taking our farmland and stripping it and so on, putting chemicals on to grow things. They are taking this new grass. It's that it's ideal to sequester carbon, ideal to regenerate the soil, ideal to develop, the roots develop, the microorganisms in below, and they are now getting the younger farmers, not the old ones, to plant their fields. It takes two years. And their goal was to get that land back to where the buffalo roamed and to get that. And they're being able to do that within two years now.

There's parameters on that and so on. But they're getting people, they're sending me some seed, try and get people to try it. Leave your garden for two years. If you can do that, a spot of your garden, to get back to its original habitat in terms of what you want to do. So I just want to say that there are things out there happening that none of us know about, that are some good things out there happening. Yeah. And I gave a speech in Seattle at the Flower and Garden Show last year

about a lot of these various things that are happening. And a lady with fears and everything says, oh my gosh, you've given me hope. You know, you've actually given me hope. And there is hope out there. We can't give up on everything. The other thing is coming back to your apartment. You have to face the limitations of which you have in terms of light

for plants to grow. Going back to what I said about, you know, for a plant to be able to grow, this is where discerning comes in, and this is where so many of the young ladies in particular get it. They're looking, they're searching the world for new and different plants. They're pushing all the buttons on our industry trying to get stuff that we've never heard of before or whatever.

They've discovered it somewhere, get it into production, so we can get it or get it in their homes. and there's a lot of them. And in doing so, now they're coming up with plants that are really tolerant of low light and poor growing conditions that will actually learn to thrive and do better. So number one, I think it's learning the best plants for your environment to be able to grow and create those conditions. You can do them in a very condition, but we have to add, especially in winter, we have to add indoor lighting. And so it just has to get your foot candles up in terms of light. That's number one, understanding that, yeah, if you look at office buildings with massive plants, no windows, they're doing very, very well. Plant maintenance people are getting it.

So it's learning the art of getting your light up, keeping your temperatures in the realm where a plant is happy and going to thrive in that situation, and this learning the art of care. But first of all, it's finding the right plants. And we need more people in our industry who are skilled at being able to do that. And quite frankly, they're learning a lot of us on their own. And so, yeah, it's an exciting time for that, but it's getting better for folks. But the other thing I'm advocating, too, is if you have a balcony, get a tree on that balcony. And because not only for privacy, but for greening, birds and insects will come to that tree, depending on what you have. And there's nothing wrong with having a pollinator around the 15-4 of an apartment building.

There's nothing wrong with that. We're just not thinking like that. Well, I will definitely let my strata know that this information is coming from you. I think that there are, again, a lot of beautiful parallels to what you're saying about, first temperature, because I listen to a neuroscientist called Andrew Huberman,

and he has a podcast, and he talks about how, and Matt Walker, who's also a neuroscientist, and really into sleep, and he talks about how, right before we go to bed, we need to cool the temperature down. There's a reason both our feet and our hands, are used for heat regulation. And so cooling down the temperature, that's why having a hot shower right before bed,

then you have a huge heat dump. That's why it's so easy to go to bed after a bath or having a shower. So temperature regulation in regards to plants and humans, again, there's those parallels. And then the other part you mentioned was light. And Andrew Huberman talks about how to keep your circadian rhythms on track

and to make sure that your mind is operating optimally, you want to get that sunlight right in the morning time and be outside. It's not fluorescent light. You need to be outside absorbing that. Even in clouds, you can still get that quality light. And then before bed, watching the sunset will also help with going to sleep.

It's a natural circadian rhythm that helps you go to sleep. So I think that it's important that people not only look at the plant and see this is the relationship I have and this is what it needs, but this is what I need as a person because humans and plants are far less we're not as different as I think we think we are. And so being able to use these tools and build not only the plant up, but ourselves up, it's like a reciprocal symbiotic relationship that we can have. And so there's a comment you made earlier that when you can see a plant and kind of know what's going on.

And I think that that is something that's missing from our society in terms of human relations. And I'm interested in your thoughts on that because I think you have a very keen eye for plants. And I'm sure that that translates over to an ability to relate with people. And I think one thing that I see a lot of is, ah, like, I don't want to ask that. I don't want to get personal with that person. Like finances right now, it feels like people are so ashamed to talk about it. The average Canadian is really in debt. They're not doing well financially.

We're not talking about these issues. Mental health is an issue. Again, we're not talking about it with our family. We say mental health is an issue, but we don't go sit down with our family members and say, this is what I'm struggling with. And I need you guys' advice. I need your support. I need your love and affection.

I know so many people who have problems, but they don't tell their parents about it. They don't tell their aunts and uncles, their cousins, anybody about it. And yet I can see not even being close with them, yeah, you have car payments, you have insurance, you have rent, you have all of, like, that cannot be stress-free living,

and yet you're not talking about it. So I'm interested in your thoughts on how we can kind of translate this relationship with plants to people and how maybe you do that because you have this deep relationship with the community and many people know who you are,

and you seem to have this great relationship with the people who come into your store. How do you approach this? Are you able to kind of see people and kind of see this person might not be having a good day? And how do you approach those things? Yeah, that's, yeah, the trouble is we're all living very busy lives.

And in a quieter space, in a quieter time, we would be able to understand those things. We're moving too quickly. and we're too interconnected and there's social media that is not kind to people and so on. So we first of all, we live in an environment where we're under a lot of pressure and a lot of stress. That's the reality in which we get up there every morning and do. and the having space and having time to maybe think about where we are. We're so busy, you know, doing, we're not having the time to back off and maybe consider all these things.

When you have a spot, you know, at home, a little bit of green space and so on, That can create that little bit of sanctuary where your mind is off of the things. And we're so focused on so many stressful things. First of all, dealing with plants takes a lot of that away. They're non-judgmental. They need your care and attention to be able to survive. And that's the beginning of that relationship for so many people, in some ways, particularly as millennials right now.

But in terms of people, You know, Erin, the one thing that people all the time say to me, you know, I'm just here, business people come in at lunchtime and they just take a walk through, not buying anything, they just come here to experience the beauty and the quiet and smell of a particular flower or just a walk through. seniors homeless bring their people here to come and go through the place and there's no hurry. Nobody's pushing anybody. They have an ability to be able to just start, you know, unwinding. So I think our place in particular, we've always built the place. And when I talk to other, you know, at associations and garden starts around the world, your only job is to create a wonderful experience for people.

That's your only job and inspire them at the same time by having neat things that maybe want to take home and, you know, recreate around their environment. That's our job is to be able to have a place where people feel comfortable, non-stressed. Nobody's, you know, on them about buying anything. It's just a question of having this one of a place. So, and you can see that. I got a very nice call out on CBC. They're asking, you know, people who, you know, have a great relationship

who's done an act of kindness to you? And the lady said to me, said, the producer phoned me and said, Brian, you get your name

in the ear again, you idiot. She said, and that lady said, she lost her, her, her parent or somebody very close to them.

And then, you know, she was dealing with you and, you know, came around the counter gave her a hug. And, you know,

that type of momentary Just saying, you know, I care about you. That's what it takes. Can you tell us about how you hire people to work here? How do you approach that? Because I'm sure it takes a certain person with a certain level of experience, but it also, to your point, you create an environment here where people don't feel rushed. How do you go about making those decisions or how have you previously gone about making those decisions?

Well, that's where people come in as our customers. come in to have this experience. It's our job to do that. Being, working here or in most, you're under incredible stress. Because the seasonality of what we're doing, in other words, there's so much has happened in a very short period of time.

There's a long preparation period and then everything just goes absolutely insane in terms of doing that. We have a very stressful environment for in which people would work, simply because we have to serve their needs. We have to be on top of things. We have to have the place looking good. Keeping a place, an experienced place, it's just the irony is we have to work incredibly hard.

Is the floor clean? Is the place safe for people? There are any slip and fall things. Do we have the right product in the shelf? And many people are very demanding. I want this and I want this and I want this and so on. So we have to find people and I'm hard on our staff. I'm hard on myself, very hard on myself because I need to be better tomorrow than it was today and I need to learn more.

And so the people who understand that, we have a great relationship. People here have been 45 years here, but other than from them and they're pushers. We've got to get this done and I want to create this and so on. So how do we find people like that? It's basically most of our people come to us. We very seldom advertise that people come here. We just had a lady who had been in a different profession for quite some time for 10 years and said,

I just want to work here. And right now it's hard, as you know well know, to find qualified people for everything. So my daughter, Erin, is the HR person. This is the question she would be able to answer, not me. But essentially, we work in a very stressful environment here. Yeah. Because the season, you know, we have to jump the seasons right now.

We have to completely take down summer and completely have fall. You have to have Christmas right on its heels. We have to have, you know, Thanksgiving out there. It is very, very stressful. And being able to grow plants, every day, there's new problems and new issues. How you talk about growing one. We grow millions of plants. And we're a small, we're tiny here compared to some of the 50-acre big folks around us here.

It's, it to be able to look at these mums. I mean, it can be great one day, whatever the roots like. Are they growing well? Are they going to finish on time? Are they insect-free when they go to our neighbors? Are we trying to be using non-nicotinoids so that the pollinators when they open won't be harmed and someone like that? It is incredibly stressful to be a grower. And to serve people today, a lot of them are very demanding and so on as well.

So the irony of being able to create a place for people to come, the challenge of being able to get that up to speed and have high quality is just really, really tough. Right. All of this face. We're blessed to have people who are here who get that and understand that. I'm hoping you can elaborate a little bit more on some of the struggles because I think that likely people, underestimate because every time I've come in, you're right. It looks great. It looks welcoming. It looks comfortable. And so what are some of those struggles that you all face in delivering that?

Because I think for so many, we underestimate it because we see everything set up so nicely. We don't understand pushing somebody out of their mud and doing all that behind the scenes work. And I think that we need more humility in our communities right now, a more humble approach to understanding the work that goes behind the scenes. So first, could you tell us about some of those demanding customers so that people understand what you're up again? You're working behind the scenes all day long, putting things together, then you go out and you see a customer.

Can you tell us that frustrating customer, not to insult, but to kind of shine a light on what you're dealing with, because I'm sure to most people you come across as this very friendly, very calm, very thoughtful person, and you're under immense amounts of stress. and the way you handle that, I think, is a testament to your character and to the family supports that you have. But I think shining a light on that is important for people to be able to go, okay, this is the impact it has. Even though I get treated well, even when I'm rude, even when I'm disrespectful, this is the pressure that that person is under. Yeah, you know, I'm far from perfect. And you're right, the more pressure you're under and you're a great pressure, the less tolerant you are the stuff that happens, right?

But the thing is, first of all, I think they have to clarify that probably 80% of your customers are absolute jewels that give you a lift. They say hi to you, good morning, oh, I love this plant, thank you for, you know, whatever like that. 80% are great. And you have to understand that this comes back to Deau Carnegie and understanding people. People are also under a great deal of stress. We have landscapers who come in trying to get product for customers who are very demanding. in terms of, you know, I mean, that's good, they understand it, you understand the game, but they're under pressure as well. And, or, you know, quite frankly, you have to look at

the deal Carney again. How many people have perfect lives? Very few of them. They're under stress and under pressure as well. There are other people who are just brown thumbs who come in and, you know, buy plants and take them home and kill them. And, you know, it's more than, to me, our attitude should be really sorry. You had a problem with a plant. Let's see if we can get you something new. And maybe you give you a little more advice in terms of that, that's a problem. But some of them are saying, this stupid plant is no good.

You sold me a bad plant after you work, you've created up there. And they killed it off. That hurts inside. So, you know, how you deal with situations is really how people there. And a lot of people, you know, are very good customers, but, you know, this is what I want. I want it now and I want it, you know, everything's changed today. It's an instant world where folks would, like wedding, we'd do our wedding at two weeks or a month or two years in advance, right? Now I'm getting married tomorrow.

I'm on all this stuff right now and assuming it's all there. So it's for various reasons that people would be undistressed and be very demanding. And, you know, the thing is to. we're all trained in all the schools we go to and seminars we go to. When people are coming into the store with a problem, there's only one thing you do right off the bat is you shut up and you listen. You say, okay, how can I help you?

Tell me what the problem is. And the fact that you fully focus on them and let them have a chance to vent or whatever like that, that's certain number one. And then you should say, yeah, okay, thank you for sharing that with me. let's see what we can do to get your problem solved here. And so that's the ideal situation in terms of doing that. But so you get the broad mix of things.

But keep in mind that 80% are just bringing people to work with. It's a pleasure. And other people, they're like that, not because of who they are. It's because of circumstances and their life, circumstances and situations. So you have to cut them some slack in terms of that as well. But in spite of that, it's our job to, you know, perform and whatever. And today we live in Insta World.

You know, why don't you have 20 flats of this particular plant? What's wrong with you? You know, no, it's okay, Tessie, Tessie. So it's understanding the dynamics of what people are. And then translating that to all the people who wait on them. And so fortunately, one of the first questions that Aaron asked people is, okay, how do you deal with the situation when their customer's upset? How do you deal with that situation?

And that's one of the most important things. So we at least, you know, acknowledge the other problem. And, you know, sometimes in Dale Carnegie, it's a no-win situation. It just sometimes I just can't solve that problem, right? So, but it's having people working with you as a team who, as a whole, try and do a very good job of, and we're serving people is what we're doing. We're servants to their needs in terms of what they want and trying to help them achieve things. And in most cases, that works really well.

Some cases, for whatever reason, it just doesn't work. But that's life. That's learning to be able to deal with that. If you get most of the people happy and looked after, you know, that's great. The other thing in today's world is if you offend people or upset them or it doesn't matter who is right or wrong, you're on social media. as this being the bad guy. Yeah. You know, so that's the reality.

Yeah, that is really unfortunate. And I think that hopefully listeners can move forward in a better direction, knowing this information and knowing what you're up against and what your staff's up against to transition. Can you tell us just about the seasons that you go through here, that when should people start getting ready to get their Christmas trees? How do you handle all of that? What do those seasons look like?

Having enough lead time is the thing. The plant world is turned upside down and the pandemic right now. First of all, the chances of getting all your product are not very good. The most important thing that you hopefully have developed over the years is relationships, good relationships with your suppliers. In other words, trust. When things got tough in the industry, you still took your order, even though you know you wouldn't sell it all.

And, you know, when they have access, probably help them out. When they're short, they'll always try and help you first or give you most of what your order is. It's relationships with your suppliers. And that's all over the world, no matter what they're producing. It's everything is built on relationships. And so, like, for example, there's a huge shortage of roses for next year.

And both our suppliers said, we're going to get as much as we can for you. Don't worry. And in this case, you can't choose anymore. We're going to choose for you because it's just not possible. But you said if anybody wants to order roses, the new customer, we can't accept orders because that's the honorable way of dealing behind in business.

So those are some of the things that we're all facing right now is extreme shortages. The other problem right now is because of the pandemic. And incidentally, it's still going on in countries in Asia. China, China is you never hear about it, but factors that we depend on in Asia are shut down right now because of the pandemic over there is coming back. And we don't know that, except then they notify us you're not going to get your product and so on. So it's a balanced world and, you know, just having enough of good product. And this is why we always learn to grow our own product because, A, we can get new and unique things first or when we know there's a shortage of things, we'll try. try and grow up there. So it's a combination of being able to put things together, but everything

is based on relationships. Right. Yeah. That is, that is so beautiful. And I think that that really helps to put this into perspective. Can you tell us about what it's like to help people turn their houses into homes? Because growing up, we didn't have, in my own apartment, we didn't really have Christmas trees, plants, stuff like that. But I really like, like at your entrance, you have clothing, you have things to decorate your home, things to make it more of a home. And I'm just interested in that aspect. The plants are obviously incredibly helpful and the main part of the business.

But I'm also interested to know in helping people turn their house, not just into like an apartment, but into a home. What has that been like? And how do you choose your products? Because to me, when I see them, I go, this is so unique. This is so fun. This is so, it's again, it's that culture where when you see, that in somebody's house, you go, oh, that looks so cool. How did, how did all of that come

about? I think over years, this is where Lisa in particular has played such an important role. She's very much, we're part of the Canadian Garden Center group, GCC. Lisa is the main player in that. We work together as Canadian garden centers. There's other groups as well, but this is the one we work with. We help each other and we learn from from each other in terms of where the strengths and where we're going to go here. But the idea is, and Lisa developed us, we're really not a plant store. We're really a lifestyle store. And it's more about what we can provide to add value to your home for the things we have.

And it's so many different little things. Lisa would find some Italian specialty foods. that are just right, right up there in terms of the millennia generation. So she brings in a few of those. We don't have huge, but just enough to like, oh my gosh, this is here. Because we've lost some of the stationary stores, we're losing a lot of our wonderful small businesses to big box stores. They don't carry a lot of things.

So getting into stationary, so you've got a special occasion. Nobody says happy birthday anymore. You need the crazy card that's a little bit off, a little edgy and stuff like that. So we would have those. One of my favorites is some of the signs we have to put up in your home. You know, the wine drinker, well, it's 4 o'clock somewhere. Just, you know, or on the mats and put in front of the door, it'll say, go away.

Or it'll say nice underwear. So it's, you know, do you make people laugh? Absolutely, you do. And it's a fun thing. People like to look and poke, and we hired a very special design person who comes in and rearranges things and arranges them in such a way that people want to have that. We have very talented people who take the plants and arrange them in certain ways, so it shows people what you can do. So it's all about how can we cut your life in some way that makes it fun. You have a bit of a kick out of this.

and for people from all walks of life. And it's nice to see the diversity. We're proud of the diversity we're getting in terms of the cultural folks who come here. And it grows over the years in terms of, you know, we have quite a falling of the Iranian community in Vancouver because we carry special varieties of mulberries. They had it back home or certain fruits and so on. And, you know, the Asian community, for example, they love certain types of fruits like the jub-jubes and some of the, you know, very unique varieties of Asian pears and so on that they're used to and they love. So it's just looking at the folks who would want to shop here and what do we have that would make you special.

And a third of our customers come out of Vancouver or the Vancouver area because we were a destination. We'd go back to that destination is what we want it to be. And we have enough thing to create. And having the new things, always being atop of what's new in the world and being able to get it out there. So, you know, it's a fun place. So we have the And Dusen Gardens, and UBC Gardener's, the volunteers come out here to find the cool new stuff. And so that's the beauty of it. So we're appealing a little bit to everybody,

trying to make it a fun place to come and shop. That's brilliant. And it kind of leads into your relationship with tourism, Chilawak. I'm interested to know how that relationship came about and the difference that makes for our community because I heard the start-of-grind discussion you had with Tim McElpine and he talked about how this is one of the main tour. kind of attractions for very, very long time and still is.

What has that been like to build something that brings in people all the way from Vancouver? Well, it's, first of all, I do have a little advantage, and that is on CBC for like 35 years right now. I'm the old guy, I'm the elder at CBC, and being asked to go to do communities up in Fort St. John, Fort James, or wherever you go. wherever you go, having that relationship with people, that trusting relationship, if you don't know something, you say you don't, I'm sorry, I don't know the answer to that, but I'll find out for you, or just telling the hard truth. I'm sorry, Sally, that's just not going to work. Don't do that anymore. You've got to go this way. So building that relationship with the broader

CBC community is very, very good. We talk about New Vancouver as well, Victoria. People come over here, Bowen Island, they come over here and find things. So you've had that trusted relationship, and when I go to small communities, you know, they get off the plane, they pick me up and hey, we've got to show you this, Brian. So you learn, get to learn about the people. And the people at North are freaking amazing. They are so self-sufficient, thinking, unique individuals. They're there because they want to be there. And I'm just like in awe.

But you get that all over the province. And so having to that translate it into the store, when they're driving from Camloops to Vancouver, everybody goes to Vancouver, for whatever reasons. And they stop in here. And vice versa, I'm going up to the interior to my cabin up there. They stop in here and pick up a few plants and so like that. So you've built that interrelationship with people, that trusting relationship. And so in terms of tourism, isn't that what it's about?

Yeah. It's just providing the experience for people. But with tourism, we're a very unfortunate situation right now. We've lost Best Western. In terms of an accommodation for people, we are way low on our accommodation. The value of tourism is having people come into your area for a particular experience, whether it be mountain biking, fishing, you know, hiking, hiking, You know, visiting friends is certainly number one.

And when they go into local businesses like restaurants and so on, helping the businesses survive in those situations. That's what tourism is about, is bringing people in to, A, give them a wonderful experience, but be spending their time in our businesses and helping our businesses as well. So it's a win-win. And many years back, I was on the provincial tourism board is, you know, tourism will be the single biggest industry

in the world and it has. The pandemic is just what is the number one business that's been hurt is tourism worldwide. Everything you do with tourism. But Jared Gardens

who I love those people there, they're amazing, talking to them, they were 95% down in sales. How can you survive in terms of that? So tourism has always been on the edge. There's no question about that.

But in terms of, In terms of the value of tourism, it's understanding the obstacles and the beauty of working with First Nations right now, when they come into our lakes and rivers and hiking, we're now going to be asking them to respect the land and respect the plants and respect everything here. It's a level of respect. They're teaching us that we have to translate to our visitors, and I think they will gain and grow from that as well. But so it's not about spending money about having people come here. We use social media to do that in various ways today.

But it's about helping businesses who are here bring in more people and businesses of all diverse things. You know, the various farming communities, the farm direct bringing in to experience small farms and all the products they have to offer and experiences like that. So it's very diverse of what we have to do. Our job is to capture, the segments of population,

because the population today is tribes. Tribes of people have similar lakes, maybe they're mountain bikers, maybe they're hikers, maybe the people just like to go for a drive or their type of thing. So understanding what the tribes are that we're out there and try to appeal to those and try to make our community more friendly. So in other words, we work with our folks here

to have them understand what's important about their best business. And I never learned more about that when we hosted the first time ever, it was a Garden Right of America, hosted the Americans to British Columbia to Vancouver for the very first time in their lives. I made a presentation in New York about coming and the American knowledge of entry. A lady from New York said, oh, can I just drive there? And this is what we're working with, right? It was the most successful convention or symposium. They've ever had. And because I went to tourism, B.C. and said, this is, this is what's going to happen. These are writers. And they said, we got it. Yeah. It was so interesting. Brian, we're going to look

after you. And what they did was gave me a young man who was brilliant in terms of handling groups and buses. He said, Brian, what's our itinerary? And if you had to approve, the garden writers had to approve everything was going to happen in times and so on like that. And And he taught me so much. We're going to every place, you and I are going to drive, and we would say to them, oh, so what are we offering here? And yeah, okay, good. So what else do you do?

And, you know, so when people went to a lavender farm, when he got off the bus, they offered lavender ice cream, a little ice cream poem, and they, you know, had lavender sachets and gifts, and they were really exposed to the diversity of what that was. He brought every place that we went to, to that next level by asking the owners of the company, what can you do more to help our guests come here for this experience?

And so in terms of tourism, I've never forgotten that. And the one thing, too, was it was very interesting. On the last day, I said, you've got to be totally relieved right now that everything we've done to the past four-five days. He said, no, Brian, this is the very worst time. He said, because they're exhausted, they're tired, and they're not thinking. And he said, and sure enough, you know, we're out there at Granville Island Park. They're just walking everywhere.

Cars were just about hit them and so on like that. You know, he just taught me everything. You know, when the buses came in, you hide them in a certain spot. They had to pick that spot. So when they're ready to go, they're right there to get people out. Because often, you know, I've been places where the buses can't get in the delayed. It messes up the whole thing. So I've been instilled in tourism of what that means.

and I try and bring that back to our area here, which is so very important. And we have an amazing crew. Allison, Colthorp in particular, is just a genius at terms of working with people and working with, you know, our parks folks and the regional districts and so on, looking at new trails and new opportunities. And now we have a resource of First Nations that we rely on. So, you know, this is absolutely great. So in terms of what tourism is, it's much more than you think it is.

It really is. Absolutely. Can you share some of your favorite places to visit, some of your favorite small businesses that you go to regularly? Well, believe it or not, Aaron, I never shop. Right. I don't have time. Yeah. I work seven days a week long or seven days closed then I get there. But, you know, it's what I used to do is, you know, phone businesses I know and say, I can't get there.

Can you do something for me? You know, I don't want to end it at end of my individual. It's just people that you know and you trust and say, you know, please can I, you know, can you sit at this aside for me? I'll be over later to be able to do that. That's, you know, and in terms of a favorite place to be, I don't have time. I'm honest to goodness, you know, but if you could put me anywhere, I used to run with a couple of doctors and they were amazing folks.

So being up, and I couldn't keep up with them because they were, you know, amazing. So running up Mount Cham and the dark coming out one night coming down in the dark, that's my happy place. I love the hiking trails we have here are absolutely amazing. So, yeah, that's, and, you know, on the national news, you know, the fishing, and now we're being more sensitive to catch and release and doing that type of thing here.

The people all over the world come here, they have a very experience. We have incredible fishing resorts here and guides that are just second to none in the world. So what's my favorite? My favorite is the people here who give up and sacrifice so much. You look at your golfing places and the small businesses run here like that to be able to survive and the tough times. And they've all struggled, whether it be the rafting, twillarding, and so on. We also, in terms, have a very good board. We have an outstanding board of people who volunteered their time to be part of and sharing and expanding and learning, you know, that's what I thought.

So our tourism here is much more than you would think it is. And I have to say that city council has been great. We work for the city of Chowac and we look after Heritage Park as well. But the city has been very gracious and very kind and working with us and helping us. and we push their buttons, I'm sure, all the time, but they've been great because they get the economic value of tourism in this area. Yeah, okay, so can you tell us how listeners can maybe help support Minter Gardens? What are the things that they can do, perhaps buying a plant,

but what are those really meaningful ways that they can show their support, those really passionate listeners who've gotten so much out of this interview, what can they do to show their support for the work you've done, you've been sacrificing your whole life to bring this to the community. What can the community bring back to the store and to your business? That's a very kind comment. And I would put that exactly in the opposite. It's not what they can do for us.

It's what we can do for them. The best thing you can do for us is tell us how we can improve your experience. Let us know all the time because we're serving you. And it's our job to be better. tomorrow than we were today. And so many people say, Brian, I wish you'd carry this, or why did you carry that, or this type of thing? Do you have these new plants?

Always pushing our buttons in terms of getting something new and different that isn't even Canada yet, because they found it in the Internet. But that's good. That's really good because it's, say, now, it's on my radar. If I'm, you know, shopping at various places in North America and we find it somewhere, now they're helping us. Because if they're thinking like that, like that, other people are thinking like that. So the one thing they could do with us is

keep pushing us to be better and how we can be better. And that's the only attitude that we can have here. Yeah, wow. That is a very humble and thoughtful response. Can you tell people how they can connect on social media through like at Minter Gardens, I believe? Yeah, it's Mintergardening.com is where we are. And we, you know, I, I, I, We wish we could be amazing people. We do the best we can in terms of getting out there. We're so hands-on in this company dealing with the daily situation for whatever needs. If it's a school that needs something for graduation or help with the, you know, gardens or, you know, an organization needs something for a special that they're having.

We deal with that every day and we're very much hands-on. So we're, we don't have the time, the resources to just spend, which we need to be, that's one of our goals to be higher in social media. It just, basically, we're here to help, put it that way. Yeah, that is amazing. And I really appreciate you being willing to take the time this morning to share so much on how people should approach their family life, how to be a Canadian citizen, how to set that example, how to connect with their community, how to be a steward for the environment.

I think that you, in almost all aspects of your life, set a really good example on how people should proceed. And as you've said, you're not perfect. Nobody is. But it's all about how you proceed facing adversity, how you proceed with new problems. And you're just your constant willingness to support the community. I think sets such a strong example for others to remind themselves of the role they play in their community. Because you and your wife built this place. It's had impacts on so many young.

people on the community's ability to grow in tourism. It's had just so many multifaceted effects on individuals like myself that I think just not enough good words can be said about the impact you and your wife have made. That's a very, very kind, but I have to remind everyone that we're just a small player in a great community. There's so many people who are doing so much that you never, ever hear about that make our community what it is and that we all need to improve. And Aaron, it's not just Fay and I, it's our two daughters and their families and, you know, who have been in our wonderful team who, you know, change over the years and so on. But without the team we have here, we couldn't do any of this. They're just, you know, don't get enough recognition for what they do.

They're absolutely amazing. So it's never about any of us. It's all about the people around us and, you know, in every walk of life, Aaron. So I appreciate you doing this. It's very, very kind. And we're just an ordinary Canadian, an ordinary Cholac citizens who just have a real passion and love for our community.

Well, it's such an amazing example. And again, I just appreciate you being willing to take this time and share such a phenomenal story. Thank you, Erin. Thank you.