Nuanced. - 39. Andrew Christopher: Canadian Singer/Songwriter & Host of the AC Podcast

Episode Date: January 18, 2022

Andrew Christopher is a Father, Husband, Singer, Songwriter, Entertainer and Host of the AC Podcast.Andrew Christopher, as he often says, is “living the dream”. He values time with his wife, 3 kids and his work as a father and husband in Ryder Lake, BC, above all else. The fact that he is able to create and perform music as a career is a result of some hard life lessons which have molded him into the artist, and man he is today. Andrew lost his daughter, Lilee-Jean, to cancer in 2013 at 2.5 years old. His dad went to jail in 2017 and was mostly absent since adolescence. A sense of responsibility to live a good life in honor of his daughter, some deep soul-searching, plant medicines, and reading a book given to him by his drummer, Dylan, changed Andrews life in a way that cannot be explained via biography. Growing up with The Beatles, Garth Brooks, piano lessons, and singing in the church choir gave Andrew a great head start in music. He played drums in band class, picked up an acoustic guitar along the way and wrote some of his first songs in high-school. After a pretty serious, but financially frustrating stint as front man in Pardon My Striptease (Pray (for LJ) #1 iTunes + top 20 99.3 “fox seeds” band) Andrew started busking on Granville island to make ends meat and build up a substantial cover song repertoire which now amasses over 500 songs. He recorded his first solo album “Gone” and busking quickly turned into warmer, dryer venues such as pubs, and private parties. His busiest year to date had him performing 274 gigs and sold over 1,000 copies of his debut album. Most recently ‘AC’ has ventured into the podcast world (The AC Show, Between Sets) and started a new original project with his close friend and fellow beer lovin’, hockey fanatic, family man, Jamie Rowe. Parliament of Owls (credit Jamie with the name) was a match made in heaven and is as much about family and friendship as it is songwriting. Their self-titled album has sold over 2,000 CD’s. Yes, Andrew is still selling Compact discs off stage as an ode to his longing for the good ol’ days, but it can also be found everywhere music is streamed. To get a glimpse of who Andrew really is you need to see him perform. You need to feel his joy, his pain and his insatiable lust for life connect with you through song.Bigger Than Me Podcast Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/BIGGERTHANMEPODCAST Bigger Than Me Instagram Page: https://www.instagram.com/biggerthanmepodcast/ Bigger Than Me LinkedIn Page: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bigger-than-me-podcast/?viewAsMember=true SUPPORT THE PODCAST: https://www.patreon.com/biggerthanmepodcastSend us a textSupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

Andrew Christopher, this is such a pleasure. I have looked and utilized your podcast to help me prepare for my own. So it is a true honor to interview someone who has a background in this and who has been sharing local stories from the Fraser Valley as well. Could you give listeners a brief introduction of yourself? My name's Andrew Christopher. I grew up in Agassi just down the road. I lived out in South Surrey for five or six years, but now I'm back. bought my first place in Chilawak up in Ryder Lake.

I'm a full-time musician, part-time podcaster on a bit of a hiatus right now, a big sports guy, a big family guy, got three kids at home and a daughter who passed away. And yeah, married and just living the dream. That's amazing. And I'm very interested to hear more about your life in Rider Lake. But let's start off with music, because I imagine that's what people know you for throughout the community. How did you get into music?

did you get started within the music industry and sharing your passion with others? My parents introduced me to music at a young age. I was taking piano lessons and then singing a bit in the church choir. And then in high school, I started kind of taking it a bit more seriously myself, first playing the drums in high school band, and then picked up an acoustic guitar, I think around grade 10 or 11. And yeah, I just started learning some songs and and even wrote my first couple tunes in high school, I would say. Yeah, and then kind of progressed from there. Right.

And I heard in a little bit about yourself that you had kind of really started to take music seriously when you were in Australia. Can you tell us that story? How did you kind of move from it being a passion and something you enjoy into something you were like, this is something I'd like to dedicate myself to? Yeah, I think there's a couple things there. One, I think I wrote a couple really cool songs when I was in Australia, and I traveled around with my guitar. I brought it with me.

So I think that kind of impressed myself a bit with some of those songs. I was like, ah, this is cool. I could do a bit more of this. And then I, that's where I started busking on the streets, kind of just playing music for other people and turned out making pretty decent money. And so that's probably when I thought, hey, maybe I could make a living doing this. And I don't have to, because I was kind of in between,

I had not finished my schooling. I was going to UF.E for kinesiology, thinking about becoming a teacher, but I wasn't a great student, and I was distracted by music. And yeah, so I figured, okay, well, maybe I can just really put all my chips into this and try and make a living at it someday. It didn't happen very quickly after that. That was more so, you know, I wrote those couple good songs and started taking original music a bit more seriously with, pardon my striptease, and, you know, we had a good run, but it's tough to make money as an original. rock band for sure right what is busking like what is that experience like to kind of put yourself out there um and and be vulnerable in that way because in my mind i would be very i don't think i could

do it because i'd be so nervous uh trying to communicate in front of other people yeah it was um it was a good place to i guess build up my chops and it was you know the entertainment side of it i've i've always been pretty comfortable uh out there um and uh the most interesting things were just kind of the people you would meet or the people that you would see hang around that maybe you wouldn't think would be into music or wouldn't tip you or whatever, but, you know, they'd be hanging around, loving it or, um, it was really, really fun to meet all sorts of people and see people interact with the music within such a short, uh, span, you know, because they're walking by some of them just for 20 seconds, they hear you. And in that time, they think, oh, it sounds pretty

good. Looks like a nice guy maybe or maybe not, whatever, but, uh, you know, grab the change, put it in there and you see them bobbing their heads or whatever and then they're gone. Yeah. And you never see them again. So it's, it's cool to see how a quick interaction like that, but you do feel pretty connected with someone. If you do see them, be generous, get some money, give it to you and enjoy the music. It's, it's neat.

And you try and smile as you're playing and singing, but. Yeah. And I guess you kind of have to like build a quick rapport and be good at sort of introducing yourself and saying a little bit about yourself in order to kind of make that person feel comfortable. Am I right on that? Yeah, I mean, I guess I never really talked too much. It was more the music kind of speaking for itself or speaking for me. But, yeah, I mean, you can pick songs that definitely help build a rapport with people, you know,

whether if they know them or they just can feel the emotions in them. And yeah, it was more so about making that quick connection from your music to them. And definitely eye contact, I think, is something that helped me. I would often do that where I think a lot of people would probably shy away bit and you know either close their eyes which fair enough I do that quite often too what I'm singing if I'm really getting into it but if you're making eye contact I think it's easier for people to to feel your energy and and you know build that rapport right close your eyes what what do you think makes that beneficial or where does that take you um in order to like

how do you connect with the music in that way well it's it's weird it's tough to explain for sure I mean, I think the one side of it is people, some entertainers maybe have an easier time singing passionately with their eyes closed if they're not directly connected to someone because sometimes when you're singing and you make weird faces or you do weird things with your body or bobbing around weird. And I think you can, if you lock eyes with someone, you might think, oh my God, they think I'm a weirdo because I'm singing like this. So I think some of that helps. If you shut your eyes, you can really express yourself. but sometimes it just happens when you're not even thinking about it, and it almost just feels right to maybe it does deepen your connection with the music. Yeah.

Maybe. Eyes open looking at someone could deepen your connection with the audience, but sometimes you have to kind of lose yourself in the music and maybe closing your eyes helps with that. That's what I was kind of wondering is because you think of those shows that and like, I don't know how much of it is hyperboleous or not, but where people are blind and their other senses are heightened, And I just wonder if, like, closing your eyes allows you to, like, deprive your sense of the sensory deprivation of your eyes to focus more on the music.

Yeah, I would say that that definitely makes sense. Yeah. And you do. You see some of these incredible, you know, historic performers who were blind or whatever. And I'm sure music spoke entirely different to them or felt different, too. When, like you said, you deprive one sense and it heightens the other. And, yeah, yeah, it's a good way to think about it. That's very interesting.

And so you were in Australia and you wrote these few songs. Can you tell us about these songs and like what makes the difference in a song for you personally between one that you really like that inspires you that makes you go, this is something I'm really proud of in comparison to one that maybe does it? Well, when I think about that, I think it kind of lends to a bit of the advice I would put out to other musicians in just being genuine, you know, writing music for yourself. and not kind of writing what you think other people will like, even lyrically, you know. So I think some of the songs where I, I don't know if I exaggerate a bit or just kind of make up more of a story,

even if it's a love story or something or trying to write a love song without I'm not really feeling it. But I think, oh, other people will like this. This is what I hear all the time. Then that one never really sits that well with me. But, and I guess the simplest ones or the heartbreak ones or it's like, you know, a love gone wrong or some deep emotion. of loss, you know, that really, you pour yourself into that and you're not having to make up any cliches or anything like that. It's just kind of what's coming out of you. Sometimes they can be cliches, but when you're really feeling it, then I wouldn't really consider that a cliche,

you know? For sure. I think that that's important because for me, I think right now music is like really important because I think it's, I don't feel like we're having the tough conversations right now personally. Like I feel like a lot of our interactions with people are online or they're really quick. You're interacting with someone at the grocery store or quick conversation with your partner. It's not deep. It's not philosophical. And so we rely on music, I think, heavily right now to be that place where we can express ourselves, where we can go to listen to like really deep music where they're saying things that we know we're true on a deep level that we kind of push to the side. And so I'm interested to know what it's like to be an artist from your perspective to create music that other people are going to hear that you think is important, that you think is a message that needs to get out there that maybe isn't being talked about in the public sphere.

Yeah. And just quickly before we started recording, I think we were talking about, you know, kind of surface level relationships and this kind of thing. And I think or, you know, an actual conversation, a deep conversation with someone. And I think it's the same with music. I think one of the problems with the music industry is there's a lot of surface level music that's rising to the top that becomes so easily popular because it's, I don't know, it's just catchy or something. And that surface level connection that so many people are used to, like you said, in just passing. Or, you know, maybe it's people at school or work. You think, oh, yeah, we've got a good relationship, but it is pretty surface level.

I think it's easy to connect that way. And then, but then, you know, the real music that talks about important things. Sometimes it doesn't make it to the top there. A lot of it does, which is good. You can find it for sure. That's one of the great things about the industry is you can find any music you want. But yeah, there's that difference, I think, that surface level music and then the deeper stuff that actually, you know, talks about important issues. And for me, you know, I think a lot of the really important songs I've written so far to myself are.

songs about family and, and lost. As I said, I lost my daughter. So there's some really deep, meaningful stuff there to do with family and, you know, not taking anything for granted and these kind of things, which are hard conversations. A lot of people don't talk about those real emotions. So for me, I like thinking that, yeah, I can put those into a song and maybe other people can relate to them. And I do have lots of thoughts and hopes in my head for writing some even more meaningful

music, you know, about big issues in the world today, you know, whether it's political stuff or, you know, those kind of topics that really are important to talk about, but they're so hard to talk about, you know. But those ones haven't quite come to me yet. It's something I'm pretty new to, but I know family really well, and that's a lot of what I write about. Right. Can you tell us about some of the songs that you've written and what you were perhaps going through or thinking about during those songs? Because I interviewed Carrie Lynn Victor, who's an artist. And it's so interesting to see into a world that I don't understand. And creating murals and sharing indigenous artwork is an area. I obviously have no background in. And so

hearing the visions that she has and trying to take what she sees in her head and try and put that onto a 2D medium or onto a wall is very difficult. Or trying to share her personal visions with the world is difficult for her. And I think music's another one of those. I enjoy music, but I have no idea the process that you go through to make a song. Yeah, I think, you know, one of the ones I recently wrote, or I guess probably almost four years ago now, though, called Vacation Song. And it's out by Parliament of Vowals, which is kind of what I put my original music out as now with a good buddy of mine who I met out in White Rock. Another family man, you know, he works, works hard with his own business and does music kind of on the side. But him and I really jelled, so we started writing songs together.

and this one we were on a on a family vacation together we went and visited them in gibson's on the sunshine coast and and uh we were all out on the deck and he was just struming this these chords that he had kind of put together in an arrangement and and um and i started singing a little bit there but didn't write the song anyways and then we got home and it was all these emotions of you know leaving the vacation or leaving this place where you don't really want to leave because you're in such a good place and such a good spot, enjoying life with your family and everything. And so it's kind of written about all the emotions you feel as you come to an end of a vacation and you're going home and you wish you didn't have to, didn't have to leave

this point of life, you know, which on the deeper side, you know, there was hints of me having to leave Lily Jean behind my daughter. And then, you know, one of the verses is written about my daughter Haven and her and Jamie's daughter, Leila. Jamie is my musical partner as well in Parliament of Vowles and then Jamie, my wife. So Jamie's daughter, Lela and Haven, are, you know, best friends in the second verse, you know, written about them playing together and not wanting to go home because it was always a fight to get them apart. So, you know, there's talking about that.

Yeah, sorry, you guys had your good time. Now we got to go home. But also the main part of the chorus is, you know, it's not really about what you've done. It's more about where you're going and what you're going to do next. So to try and bring that lighter side to it, like, yeah, you're feeling all these crappy emotions because you're leaving a situation that you don't want to leave. But, you know, you've got to look forward and embrace what's coming next. That's brilliant because I think, again, just going to, we don't have those conversations of being grateful for the moment, being grateful for those times of solace where you have peace. And it sounds like your heart was full because you get to see not only yourself having a good time, but your family.

around your children, having a good time. And so there's like just a bit of peace there, but then you have to leave and having hope that you can take that experience with you and make everything better at home, make it like improve and try and build upon that positive experience and grow from it and make sure that you carry that with you, that you don't forget about those positive moments is again something I think people struggle with. Like I think of myself and our first vacation, family vacation, was not that enjoyable because we were trying to check other people's boxes. We had in mind like, oh, we were going to go to Hawaii.

We should do the hike that everybody else does. We need to go sit on the beach. We need to go check these boxes that didn't fulfill us. And so we left that vacation going like, this was all right, I guess, but this was not something we enjoyed. And then when we got back, we talked for hours about like, what could we made it better? How could we have enjoyed that experience more? And it's like, well, we didn't even think about why we were going to Hawaii. We just thought you're supposed to go to Hawaii, Mexico, these Cuba, these places that everybody talks about going to and everybody does the same things.

And so not having like a deeper understanding of why do you want to travel? Where do you want to travel to? What speaks to you when you're traveling and when you're with the people you want to be around? What brings you guys closer together? These are like things I don't think people talk about or think about. And then they just go on the vacation. They come home and they're like now back to the grind. And it's like there's no critical thought like you said of what those experiences.

are like. Yeah, and I think a lot of that is, like you said, to do with living in the moment or being happy in the moment. Because I think, you know, for me, we actually just had a trip to Hawaii. And, you know, I didn't feel myself getting as excited about it this time. And I think it was for a good reason that I was so completely content around home. Like, you know, we're in our new home. We've got our family. You know, things are going well. Everybody's healthy. And so I'm I'm so kind of happy around here that I didn't need to put Hawaii on a pedestal and say, okay, I'm going there. It's going to be the best time ever.

I'm going to forget everything that's going on here because, you know, my life here sucks or whatever. And Hawaii is going to be perfect. Because if you have that mentality, then you go there. And, yeah, your expectations are probably not going to be met. And you're going to think, oh, shit, now I have to go home to my crummy life and this kind of thing, right? So I think for myself this time, it was weird. I was like, yeah, I know I'm going to enjoy. it because I'm still going to be with my family or I'm going to get to go to the beach

and these things. But I don't have to treat it as this, you know, absolutely incredible thing that's going to happen and it's going to make me feel so much better because I think if you can't be happy where you are right now, then there's nothing you can really do or get that's that's going to make you happy. Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. You've mentioned your daughter Lily a few times. Can you tell us about what that experience was like? I don't want to ask too many questions, just please feel free to share what you feel comfortable with. Yeah, well, and I was, I was going to bring up the song that we released for her in terms of a fundraiser for the Children's Hospital, and because that was a different way of writing

a song, and, you know, my daughter, Lily was diagnosed with cancer, and she was very young, and we battled for, you know, almost a couple years, and she eventually passed away, and that's, you know, almost nine years ago now, we're coming up on nine years. And when she was sick, we had actually already written this song. And so the lyrics had already been written, which not many people might know, that they weren't really written about Lily. It was more they were written before when, you know, just on a whim. And it's interesting how it kind of matched up perfectly with the situation that I was then put in. And we thought, well, this song's perfect.

Let's put it out there. you know, they were saying the band was wanting to help raise money for me, but the community had already been so gracious to my family and I that, you know, we said, okay, well, let's make it just for the hospital. And we did that. And, you know, it raised a lot of money. And it was a very bright light in the dark time. You know, we could see the song kind of climbing up the chart as more people bought because they wanted to donate to the hospital to help families like mine. And so, you know, there was a few good times there, you know, where we felt really good about what we were doing. And I was, I was lucky, you know, the entire way to be able to spend as much time as I could with Lily, again, because the community was so generous and I didn't have to worry about working.

So it was, yeah, it was a tough time, but, you know, it's as cliche as it sounds. It honestly made me who I am today going through that. Um, you know, it led me to meet my wife. Um, it led me into a full time career as a musician. And, um, it really changed something inside of me that, you know, talking about living in the present moment and, and this kind of stuff. And, uh, it's, yeah, just completely changed my life, you know, for the better. And, and I'm, I'm glad I can say that because I know something like that could change a lot of people's lives for the worse. And I don't think you have to let it. Sometimes I don't think you can, decide, but there is a certain level of responsibility you can take to, you know, to grow from things like that. Right. You said it helped lead into your music career and meeting your wife. Can you tell us about how it did those things?

Well, in terms of meeting my wife, it was, her daughter was in the hospital going through cancer treatment as well, Jaden, so my 13-year-old stepdaughter. and she's, you know, in remission now and doing great, but they were kind of there and we passed ways a couple times, but I didn't know who she was. And I guess she had actually already messaged me on Facebook saying, hey, thanks for doing this stuff with your song to help out the hospital. But it went in the infamous other inbox. So I never got the message.

And I guess we crossed paths a couple times. And she was assuming I had gotten the message and just didn't want to talk to her. Right. So we, you know, I think we made eye contact in the elevator at the cafeteria. I think this is what she says, but I didn't know who she was, but she knew she had already sent me this message. Yeah. And then I finally saw it and wrote her back and said, hey, sorry, didn't see the message for a while. Yeah, you know, and we just got to chatting and, yeah, so it kind of took off from there.

And then in terms of the music career, I guess it was, you know, what happened with Lily, inadvertently did kind of put an end to, pardon my stripti stuff. We tried, we, we continued on a bit after that once, you know, I could put the time and effort into it again. But by that time, things just kind of fizzled even between some of the, not the friendships, but, you know, one of the guys just was like, you know, I'm not really digging, performing anymore. Um, so we were talking about a rebrand almost coming back to something new. And he was like, well, I don't think I really want to be part of it. You know, good luck to you guys. I hope you do well. he just wasn't into it.

And then we kind of thought, well, okay, do I, do I really have the time right now to do this? And it kind of fizzled out that way. So no big band drama. But we just parted ways. And we kept playing like cover tunes. So those guys would still be my wedding band. If I was playing at a wedding, they'll come with me and do all the cover songs that we know. But so that kind of ended.

But I was still, I was playing my guitar at a ton, singing for Lily in the hospital and writing a bit more music in my own, but also just learning a ton of cover songs just for fun. And then I was doing some more busking because it was an easy job I could do a few days a week without, you know, without losing too much time with her and just very flexible because I'm just doing it wherever I want. That was, well, whenever I want. I would do it on Granville Island. And it's an amazing busking community out there. And so I started doing that.

Again, learning more songs, making a bit of money. and then getting a few gigs at weddings and stuff from people who would grab my card because they liked what they heard and private parties or weddings and then different restaurants around town here we're reaching out saying you know hey do you want to come play at our restaurant just you play some cover songs make some money so then that kind of just started building up and up from there right that is so interesting can you tell us about that busking community about how that looks because I think of Chilliwack and I don't really feel like there is a thriving community here what are your perspectives on that do you think that it should be bigger or it's good that it's in certain locations like Granville Island? It's Granville Island is, and talking to some of the guys who perform there, that's like one of the mecas like around the world. Like that's big time busking there. Like, and you get guys from all around the world, um, coming and doing it. And, uh, um, it's very well run there by the, by the art society in Granville Island, I

think. Um, and so they do every, every day you go to a draw, like a random draw. You pick your token and then they draw numbers. and whoever has that token gets to pick first. And they go through, you only get, you know, half an hour at each spot. And then you have to move on to the next spot if you sign up for it. So it's very well put together there because it is, there's so many people who want to do it. I'm not sure exactly how it's working around Chilliwack. I've seen it.

I've seen it happening in an organized way as well at some points. I don't know where it's at right now. But, you know, I think if people are wanting to do it, then there needs to be something. They need to be allowed to or they need to, you know, show them, okay, yeah, do it here anytime you want or do it here. And if it starts getting too busy, we'll take care of it. You know, I guess it could be arts society or I'm not sure who would take it on if it's been the city of Chilliwack. But I know there has been some that's been happening, so that's good. But yeah, I hope there is enough if there's kids out there who want to do it.

Or adults. Yeah. It just sounds so valuable for someone in your circumstance and artists looking to kind of build up a reputation. and raise a little bit of awareness on their work because it can be tough to market on social media at times. It can be tough to connect with the audience that's actually interested in the music and being able to just show them your work

seems like such a useful tool during times where your schedule is sporadic and where you only have your certain times where you're able to do it and it's not consistent. Yeah. And just thinking about it more locally here, like it is. It's great.

Not only exposure, but just, working at it, you know, getting your reps in to perform these songs and get more comfortable with them. So it's great for people who are wanting to do that. And, you know, now that the foot traffic is picking up, especially along that, you know, District 1881 there. And, you know, I think there would be a couple really great spots that there could regularly be people. And I do believe I did, I saw a gentleman out there one time anyways in the past few months. And yeah, it would be cool to see more of that happen. Right. I'm also interested to know you mentioned that the community had your back and that was really helpful. I'm always interested in those stories because

often it can sound like cliche to say like community matters and it's like you have a reciprocal relationship with the community. It kind of goes both ways. You like Trevor McDonald talked about how he gave back to the community and the opportunities he had, but then when he lost his guitar, the community came out, rallied around him and tried to help him find his guitar. And so there's like a healthy relationship between you and the community. And I'm interested to hear a little bit more about what that experience was like yeah i mean for us there was so much going on at that time and you know it seemed like every every pub and every group of people was putting on some kind of fundraiser for for lily i know for sure at major leagues they did and the jolly miller

where i play um and at chances casino even you know they did a big a big event there and um so it was it was very humbling and and just awesome to see that kind of outpouring and all Everybody coming up with, you know, even unique ideas or just doing whatever they could to give back, you know, whether it was, you know, like photo shoots or whatever that they would auction off or say, you know, hey, book this photo shoot with me and we'll give the money to these guys or different, you know, small business owners trying to do something when they don't really have the money to just give away. But coming up with these cool ideas just because they want to help so much. And, you know, I was always pretty good around my community and helping out when I could. And, you know, my mom definitely instilled that in me. But that, what happened with Lily, again, it kind of really lit a fire under my ass about, okay, man, yeah. You know, look at how many people have helped you out and, you know, you better give back what you can.

And I do pride myself on doing that, whether it's someone just reaching out on social media who's having a hard time and wants to chat or if it's, you know, organizing. or performing at fundraisers. And, you know, I started a golf tournament for Children's Hospital. I had done three years in a row and then COVID kind of messed it up. But, you know, it's definitely something that I've grown into. And I'll be very happy to do more and more of it for sure and especially around town here. Like, I love Chilliwack, Agassie Abbotsford. Like, that's kind of my home for sure.

And, yeah, it's important. And like you say, then if you're there for your community, they're going to be there for you back. you know, and no matter how small or how big the way is, it is. It's reciprocated. Absolutely. I'm also interested to know a bit of your journey in regards to playing at different venues. What is that experience like to share perhaps your music or cover music with an audience? Is that different than playing at somebody's home? What does that look like for you? Do you get nervous beforehand? What is this like? Um, it's, it's really cool, man. I mean, one of the most recent things or epiphanies I've had is, you know, there's been a couple times in the past few weeks where, you know, kids have been there really listening to me and, and just loving the music, like seeing this guy with a guitar singing and you can see it in their eyes that they're so enthralled. They're just, like, they don't know how I'm doing it. They're like, this is incredible and it's right here, you know, it's not on a radio or it's not on my iPod or whatever. And, um, and so just to think that,

that I might actually be inspiring some of these kids to pick up a guitar or something, and I'm like, it feels so cool. And I'm so lucky to be in that position. And so, you know, I'll give them a CD, and even if they don't have a CD player, hopefully their parents still do. But I say, you know, listen to it.

These are the songs I wrote and, you know, play guitar one day or something. And just trying to connect with them like that. It's, you know, there's always been kids in my gig, but just recently I've kind of started understanding that, you know, this is probably pretty cool for them, you know, to see a guy up there singing. It might be the first time they've ever seen someone do that.

And so I'm pretty lucky that I get to be put in that position, you know, three times a week across Chiluac. It's cool. And to see people coming back, it's, I think that's what helps with the nerves and whatever, because I know that was in here somewhere. But, you know, for me, I don't really get nervous anymore doing that because people always come back. And so I know they're enjoying it. Or maybe they just really like the chicken wings or something. But I like to think it's for me.

And so that also makes me a bit more free to just really do what I love or the songs I want to play and really put myself all out there into it because I can see that, you know, people enjoy it and to have people actually come back like week after week. Like almost, you know, each of my gigs, there's regulars who pretty much come every week. And it's incredible to think that the people kind of enjoy my entertainment and just enjoy the. atmosphere that gets created there. That's, that's a really cool part. Absolutely. And I think so important during a time where I think there's, there's such a limitation on us being able to get together, things keep changing. And I think it's valuable to be able to connect with someone and to be able to see someone share a gift, share their craft with others. And I think that that was a little bit limited during this pandemic because it's so valuable to understand like the years you've

put into this and the energy that you've put into making these songs and the development that you've gone through over the years and I'm interested can you share a little bit on that like what what has it been like to grow over the years and to see your craft develop well I always you know and I always do tell people how lucky I am to do this and but I always add in that you know I did I worked really hard at it and I'm lucky now that I get to do it as a career and because I do think, you know, there was a lot of times out in Australia, I did a bit of busking in England and then on Granville Island where it was like, I was working hard out there. Like, it was cold or it starts raining or whatever. And I'm trying to make as much money as I can. So I don't

want to leave or, you know, on a funny side, I have to go pee super bad. But I don't want to leave this spot because it's a good spot. I'm making some money. So I hold it. I hold it. You know, a lot of the time out there, or it's playing to nobody, you know, you're playing your song and nobody's walking by but I would most of the time keep singing just for the practice and that and um but yeah I think a lot of that is really what what helped me or shaped me and gave me enough confidence and and built up my repertoire of song so much and you know strengthen my vocal chords and my playing and um I think from there it was uh most of the time then after that I would learn a song as someone asking for it and saying um you know hey do you know

this band or do you know this song or this and you know i'd write it down in my phone or something i'd be like nope but i can i'll learn it for you and you know then the next week i'd come back and play it for them and i're that kind of thing and i still try and do that as much as i can um it's tough though right you know now i'm a bit busier back then i you know didn't have as many kids running around or whatever and um yeah but i mean the progression from you know busking on the streets putting in those 10 000 hours you know i'm sure i'm there by now and uh and then you know just really honing it in on, you know, the equipment side, learning a bit more about engineering. Not that I know anything about it yet, but, you know, just learning about how to plug a mic in,

right, and make it sound pretty good, EQing and stuff. And so then just always, always learning something, whether it wasn't actual music, but, you know, how to make it sound better or, or, and then the writing music side of it, too, you know, just I don't get a ton of time to write, but I love doing it. And I'm hoping to do more of that soon. and then, you know, just still trying to put in the hours there. And it all just practices or kind of rehearses in the same parts of your brain where, you know, you're making music or thinking about music and then it all comes together.

And now, you know, I can, you know, I get to play three days, three days a week across Chilliwack and parties and weddings. And yeah, it was, I put a lot of work into it and I'm lucky I get to do it. Absolutely. Can you tell us about, like, how the venues might differ? because I think of like being at like a bar or a pub, that would likely be different in terms of your approach in comparison to like a community event like party in the park or something like that where it's more community oriented. How do you approach this? Do you have to give like more energy in like different ways depending on what venue you're at or how does it differ for you?

Yeah. On the energy side of things, it's I don't think it's so much the venue or the or the gig that I'm actually. it's more what's going on in my life or how I'm feeling that day I think because I you know and I'm sure some people who've seen me play a lot will attest to that there's some nights where it's just like on a next level right and the other nights are just great but you know sometimes depending on what's going on with me or what I'm feeling or what songs I'm playing it does take it to a next level and so I don't know if if that gets changed from venue to venue or if it's just day by day within myself or you know how much energy I actually have to put

out there. But then there's definitely differences, you know, if, like I did the Yarrow Market a few times this year and a lot more families around and kids. So I'm not going to do any of my, my rap or hip-hop stuff, you know, with the too many suggestive lyrics and that when save those for the, you know, the Miller or something. And it definitely, it makes me change things slightly a little bit. But most of the time, a lot of my content is pretty, you know, pretty family. friendly friendlier or that kind of thing anyway and in terms of energy it's just uh yeah day to day you

never know what you're going to have right and i'm sure you feel it too some days right where you've got all the energy in the world and so then think about picking up a guitar and singing then or other days when you're kind of you know just really not feeling it and think about having to pick up a guitar and sing that and it doesn't always click you know even if uh you know music can be very helpful in healing in that way but um yeah you can't sometimes you can't just turn it on like that you know it takes a bit of a bit of time and and it takes a lot of energy so how do you go about writing a song like um i understand that there's like the sound to it um but there's also the words how do you what are the steps that you have to go through does the sound come first and then you tie that in

with the words and the verses like how what is the process look like to make a song um i've always said you know it's it's come both ways for me uh sometimes i'm strumming the guitar putting a few chords together a way that i think sounds nice and then try and think of a few words or what think of something that it's reminding me of an emotion or something and and then write lyrics after that you know kind of listen to that guitar or play it over and over and and then write the words to that or you know fairly often i'll just have something come into my head if it's lyrics or just a line or something i want to write about. And usually I can get a few lines together there and sing them and then go to the guitar and find the chord that matches that or the picking pattern that matches kind of those lyrics that

I or the melody that I came up with. And sometimes it's pieces of music that pop into my head. That's probably the most rare one for me. But sometimes I can hear a bit of a guitar line or something cool or a cool drumbeat, at least like a tempo that I'm really into. And then I can get the guitar and figure that out or the piano again pretty rarely on the piano but um yeah once in a while i think that's the really interesting one where you know people get these musical just sounds in their head and they're like oh yeah that sounds nice i'm going to go are those are those like some of your favorites what are your thought because when carrie lyn victor described her making art she described how those are some of her favorite pieces but she has a difficulty taking it from her mind

to getting it down on a piece of paper or putting it down. And when I was sitting there, I was like, she also described how, like, there's not, like, a market for her to make the art she wants to make, that she has trouble having, like, when people want a piece of artwork in their home or a school wants it, it's what they want. Like, we want birds here, we want something like that.

And so she's like, there's not, like, a market for me to make what I want to make where people want to buy that because it's all individualized and people want what they want. they have a vision in their mind of what they want it to look like. So she doesn't get to make that all the time and she doesn't get to share that. And that makes me as a consumer-like nervous because I want her to make, I don't know where her visions are coming from. I don't know what that means that she's having those experiences.

But I want to know what she's seeing. And as an artist, I want her to reach her full potential so that we can all benefit because it's unlikely someone like Van Gogh was making art for other people and those were the ones that really hit, that were the ones we remember. today. It's the ones that he saw, that he worked on, that he got to focus on that I think impact us the most. And we don't maybe appreciate it when they're alive, when they're still creating. We don't appreciate the best works of ours. So I'm interested for you. What is that

experience like to have music come to you in that way? Well, it is, you know, and the one tune I would reference is one of my favorite ones that I've written to date called Sunflower cafe um again on the parliament of owls album that we put out a few years ago and uh it did it did start with uh well just i saw at this cafe i was at and the blue it was a blue wall and a broken window and that was that's kind of part of the first line in there um i saw that and i thought oh that's cool blue wall broken window sounded kind of cool and then and then from there though it i heard it with with the guitar i kind of heard what the guitar was going to do before grabbing my guitar playing it and then went sat down in the park and um and you know wrote out some more of the lyrics

and as i was writing the lyrics i could i definitely had that type of vision you know i said okay well this is where because if you listen to the song it's a pretty dynamic song um and you know i said okay well this is where it'll get a lot bigger this is where it'll quiet down again and then you know the ending is going to be like this and so it was you know that was i think that was i would say my most successful writing moment in it was writing that tune. It was, it just came together exactly how I wanted it to and, and I could see it from the beginning. And, um, yeah, it's, I'm really proud of that one. And, um, and in terms of kind of, you know, getting those things in your head. And, uh, I feel, one of the things I feel I've got to

get better at is, you know, when you wake up, we're half awake or whatever, right? And you get these ideas or something. And I got to get better at writing them down. Because a lot of the time, it is music stuff. But it's tough because sometimes it's in the middle of the night and you're like, I don't want to get up and go grab my guitar or I don't want to get up and go grab my guitar or I don't want to get up and write it down. The kids are going to be up in a couple hours, you know, and then you just go back to sleep. But I don't know if you've had those kind of experiences, but I think most people do where you get at least thoughts or ideas in your head. But then you don't write them down and then they're gone. Yeah, that definitely happens to me and I've bugged

my partner because I'll have my phone on and it's like 11 o'clock and I've been kind of half asleep for about a half hour, but then something just comes to me. And it's like, I have to sit up, write it down and then I kind of wake myself up by doing that. And it's like the price you pay for having an improvement idea and having like that next step of something because there's certain things with this podcast where like it seems obvious in retrospect but I didn't even consider it when I was starting it to like this is how it could be improved this is how the moment could be better like one thing I struggled with for a while was remembering to have a quick conversation with a guest before we start like

my instinct was like well anything interesting that comes up should happen in the recording And then I think I made a few guests stressed out or nervous because it's just like getting the headphones on and then they start speaking. And I think for some, they've never had a microphone in front of them. And so like developing a better approach over time to interactions with the guest when they're coming on has been something that ideas come to me, improving the sound or just other things have just kind of come to me in that way. And it's tough to know or it's tough to control when those ideas come. You know, it's not like you can sit down and say, okay, I'm going to think about ideas for this podcast in ways I can make it better. You'll come up with some, but a lot of the most important ones, they'll come to you in the middle of the night or, you know, at six in the morning when you're trying to go back to sleep. Exactly.

As well, I've been listening to a lot of independent artists. I don't know if you've heard of Echo or Vin Jay is a very recent one, very, I think, like currently not well known, but their lyrics, their ability to talk about issues, not get into the, I think. I would say the nonsense of rap. I'm very biased towards rap. It's my favorite genre. Their ability to break down topics. But one of the ones that they've both talked about is the struggle of becoming an artist and having it become more work than enjoyment and seeing songs not for their beauty that you perhaps

started with. Like when I listen to podcast, I would just admire the craft. And I wouldn't think about the process or the audio quality or any of those things. Now that I'm in it, I see, oh, this person's podcast, they messed up on the audio here, or their microphones weren't loud enough, or what was this, or why are they putting in music with their ad? I want to hear their ad because I want to support the work there. I start thinking about it more in a business sense and more critically. Exactly. More mechanically than I used to. And so I'm interested, what has that process been for you to go from being an admirer and enjoyer of music to perhaps being more critical on hearing songs that you like, but going. I would have done this instead or I would have changed that or they should have done this or doing that to yourself when this may have started as like a healing process, something that helps you process how you feel. Yeah. I mean, I think it, I definitely know what you're saying

because it's, it is sometimes hard for me to turn off the musicians mind and just turn on the listening mind to listen to some music, even some of my favorite music. You know, I start just listening to one, just listening to the bass play and being like, yeah, what's the base doing here? And then you miss the whole rest of the song. But yeah, I think, I think that's okay, especially if it is one of your favorite songs. You're clearing it. You've already heard the whole thing, you know, a million times. But sometimes I catch myself on the new stuff. And then you're like, well, you're kind of missing the point. If you're just judging the song based on this, instead of taking in the whole picture, you know. Um, so it's definitely something I work at.

And I, and this is like in a few different places of my life, I would think, is just, you know, taking it as a whole instead of focusing. And I guess it's almost, you know, getting lost with your thoughts. It would be the main thing, you know, instead of just focusing on what's going on in your head, make sure you're focused on everything, the whole picture. You know, you can still think about things, but make sure you're experiencing life as it's going on around you, what you're seeing, what you're smelling, tasting, hearing, feeling, you know, where you are. like and and then if you're thinking about something as well great but you know ideally you should be able to encompass all that at the same time um same as music you know you should be able to you should be able to enjoy a song as the whole and then sometimes with the musician's mind you're picking it apart a bit too much i do it with a lot of pop music i think so usually if i'm listening to something that i know

was a classic you know some lead zeppelin or something i i i probably narrow in you know on some of the guitar solos or whatever or the vocal lines and stuff, but it's more out of an admiration and thinking this is absolutely incredible. And so I feel like that's a different side to this where, you know, you can be a bit critical and a bit mechanical thinking, oh, well, I would have done this different or they maybe should have done this different. But I think it's okay to narrow in on some of those things if you're being appreciative of it, you know, that kind of thing. Right. Can you tell us about some of the artists that you admire and what you see that perhaps individuals like myself who don't have a background in music or the expertise might miss in terms of

the people that you admire within the music industry like the Led Zeppelins or any musicians that you admire that you go, this person is good and this is why. Yeah, it's a tough thing, right? Because it's art, right? I guess if I'm personally, you know, I'm a big fan of the Dave Matthews band. One of the things they do is, you know, they're a jam band or what's considered a jam band. So they, you know, almost never play the song the same way twice. You know, it's always different soloing, even different lengths of solos. And, you know, they're just giving each other the signals, whether that's musically,

they're hitting certain licks or notes that tells the band that, okay, we're moving on. Or if it's little eye contact or signals or something, you know, and just seeing how that, And often, I'm pretty sure sometimes they don't do any of that, and they just know. They feel it together, and they're moving on, and they create these songs that they've played, you know, thousands of times, but they're doing it differently every time. And it's just so cool to see something like that, whereas, you know, most, a lot of bands, or especially, I guess, younger artists, you know, they're locking down their song. They're going to play it the exact same way the whole time because they've found that process where they say, okay, this is what sounds good. this is what's going to be right and this is the way we're going to do it. So they play it the exact same way.

And so when you see bands kind of improvising like that, that's something that really blows my mind and really attracts me to it. And I guess the second part of that is even Dave Matthew's vocals or someone like Gore Downey, big tragically hip fan, feeling, and not just the vocals, the music too, but being a singer, I'm attracted to that and just hearing the, the emotion and the rawness in the vocal sometimes, even if it's not the perfect pitch or the perfect note, but that gets covered up by just the energy and the emotion that they put into it.

So that's kind of, I'd say, the other part of music that really gets me is just hearing someone with such passion, and you can hear it, you can hear the pain, or you can hear the enjoyment in their voice when they're singing about certain things. Yeah, who do you enjoy right now? Who do you enjoy covering or songs that you enjoy? playing for people that you maybe think like oh these people might not have been exposed to this song this would be valuable for them to kind of hear this perspective or um i like this song so i'm

sure they will like what are some songs that stand out to you as valuable for listeners to hear um i'll take it as in like the the latest song that i've really connected with that i'd probably played a bunch of times before and and now i love doing it even more it's simple man by lernard skinner So everybody probably knows the song, or a lot of people have heard it, but just the connection I made to it, you know, a couple months ago, just in one performance, I could, you know, it was just something different hit me with the lyrics and everything. And then it's like, whoa, I want to make sure everyone else feels this. I want to make sure everyone's really hearing these lyrics, you know, with the emotion they were meant to be sang with. And so, so, you know, that's one for sure that I love doing now and kind of giving it my all. Another one, for the same reason, just because it really, hit home with me just sometimes i've sang these songs a hundred times before but um you know once and a while when your emotions are right or your energy's right luckily for me it's happening a lot more often now um and but it's daughters by john mayor like just beautiful beautifully written song um you know about parenting and and you know having a daughter treating her right and um so obviously

that speaks to me and and you know so i sometimes a little preamble on the mic and you know saying And, you know, father, kids at home, that's why this song means so much. I don't know if I don't know if I do that enough or too much at my shows. You know, sometimes I feel like I'm just supposed to be the background to play music, which I'm totally cool with because then I can just fade away and do my own thing. Sometimes I feel like I should talk a bit more about the songs or a bit about my relationship with them. But then people are eating dinner and they're probably like, what? Trying to talk here.

So that John Merriman, another one connected with really strongly, a couple times was what it's like by Everlast. I don't know if you know that one, especially when the weather starts turning, it starts getting cold. It's, you know, in the first verse, it's about a homeless guy out on the street.

And the whole thing is just, you know, everybody's got a story, you know, you probably don't know as much as you do as you think you do about this person, you know, everybody's struggling with something and you don't really know what it's like

and that kind of thing. So some of that that I try and portray, I don't know, I think I kind of dodged the question a little bit there. It was really good, because I think that that's where, like, the beauty of music kind of hits home is because there are certain times where you do hear the music in a different way. And it's something that, like, I don't feel like we talk about. I don't think when you send a song to your friend, you break down, like, these are the five reasons why I like this song. Like, I feel like that's what people miss out on when we're listening to music.

And it seems like that problem has not been able to be fixed by the music industry yet, like how to get the music. but why people like that song. Because it's so interesting to see the, like, the Spotify rapped of, like, the songs you listen to. But, like, there's no explanation as to why that was your favorite song. Like, NF is one of my favorite rappers right now. And his song Lost was my most played song for 2021. And it was like, it's so interesting that that's true. But almost nobody would know that beyond me and perhaps my partner and why that song was so impactful

and why I had it on repeat so many times and that you don't really consciously plan what song's going to be your most listen to song. Like you don't, like, I just go through shuffle and then it ends up being that song and then I'll skip certain songs and choose to leave it on certain songs. And like, that's partly done unconsciously.

And so I really hope that we can work towards a way of us understanding why people like music and why certain songs speak to them because I feel like it's that understanding of like, who are you, where are you at? because I think we could start to understand people are facing anxiety or depression or certain problems based on the music that they're listening to because that top song is probably going to be something that's hitting home with how they're feeling in actuality and not just

saying, oh, yeah, I'm having a good day today. It's like, what songs are impacting you right now and how is that kind of shaping your worldview or what songs are helping you cope with the problems that you're facing right now? Yeah, there's a lot of mysteries within music in that way, right? And I don't know if we'll ever know why certain people are attracted to certain music or, you know, what it is if it's a genetic thing or if it's, it's something, you know, a bit more, a bit more foo where it's, you know, the music just speaks to you, man. You just feel it and you love it. And I think on that is, you know, sometimes it's impossible to tell what songs, you know, especially from, you know, decades past, we're going to be the big hits. Like nobody really knew, okay, you're going to write this. song like this and it's going to rise up the charts like crazy like there's so many stories of song just kind of coming out of nowhere that have become some of the biggest songs in the world where no one would have guessed that right whereas today you know there is definitely a formula

pop music uses or i almost feel like it's and maybe this is maybe an optimistic that it's getting better where it's not all these formulated you know mathematical songs that are getting pushed out to the masses that that because they do know that people like this people will listen to this it'll get in their head and they're going to be stuck with it. Yeah. I don't think that really means they'd like it, you know? I think that's like a quirk in the system where you can hack people's brains and be like, you're going to listen to this and you're going to like it and you're going to buy it

and you're going to stream it a million times, you know? So there's some of that music which adds into that conversation where you're like, well, we must be able to tap into something inside people's heads, but I don't know if it's the emotional part of it. I don't know if we could ever figure that out really. There were a few songs. that, like, those EDM type songs, those mixtures, um, they got really big, but they don't survive.

Yeah. And that's what's interesting is, like, how do you measure the quality of a song? Is it like the Nick Jonas is that kind of hit for two weeks on the billboards and then drop off and then, like, you almost never hear of or think of again? Or is it the songs that survive that test of time? Um, and you think of like the Led Zeppelin as people, the Beatles who've been able to defy, like what what time requires of you in terms of being an artist. And I'm interested to know your thoughts on just the music industry

because I've been listening to a lot of independent artists who have chosen not to go with labels or record producers. And that gives me hope. And it doesn't look like it's an easy path. Like I think of Macklemore, NF, to start with Echo, Vinj. Like I think of some artists that are working really hard to try and make it. But it's like it's even long. and they don't get any support from the Apple Musics or the Spotify's.

It's a more challenging route, but it requires them to make more in-depth quality music. It requires them to put in, to make sure the music is good. And so, in contrast, I think when you're with a big record producer, you can have lower quality songs or those more surface-level songs, and they'll make it, but they won't survive the test of time. What are your perspectives on the music industry? Do you think we're going in a better direction? Well, as we're talking about it now, I do, again, being an optimist, optimist maybe, I do think there's a lot more good music out there than there is crap music, even though a lot of the crap music makes it to the top.

But I mean, even on Spotify and stuff, it's great. And there's millions of artists you've never heard of, right? And that's why I have a hard time talking about new artists that I like or whatever, because there's just so many. They come from everywhere, right? Yeah, there's a lot of good artists. out there, new artists that you won't really hear unless you're going searching for new music, you know, but there's, there's so many talented guys out there who are putting

out real music, you know, like you said, guys that aren't following, you know, labels direction or whatever, people who are really putting, putting themselves into it. And I think, I think there is hope, I guess, you know, we're talking about pretty deeply here, but, you know, one of the things I wonder is a lot about, you know, music equipment and the songs coming out and the sounds they're getting like, I think there's got to be a point somewhere. And maybe we've even passed it where it's like, no, music sounded awesome at this point, you know. And then the technical logical advances actually could start taking away from some of that music if you make the guitar sound too perfect, you know, or if you make the drums sound too much like a computer or you're playing them on a computer, you know, I think you're losing a lot of that music, right? So it's almost like, yeah, trying to, more and more artists, I do think are trying to get back and finding that where, you know, I think it did sound better this way, you know, instead of just taking the newest and following the pop songs and following the latest craze in terms of writing music and making it sound like this. Like, I think there's a lot to be looked at from the past and a lot of artists are doing that now in just using different microphones or using, you know, analog mixers instead of digital mixers. and all this different type of equipment. But yeah, so there's, I mean, there's always awesome music out there to be found.

The industry itself is, you know, a whole different animal, I think. And it's tough to make it as an independent artist because there is so many people out there. And it does seem like those top, top artists and the top songs are making all the money, right? But in terms of the art itself, it's, you know, yeah, there's always, there's always incredible stuff out there to be found. Fair enough. I'm also interested to know about your journey into the podcast space. You started in, I believe it was January 2019. We haven't heard from you in a while. But how did you get started in the podcast space? What made you interested in it? It was, I did have underlying interest in, you know, broadcasting or radio. And it was something I did toy around with the idea of even going to school for. probably like sports broadcasting, but thinking, I'd be cool to have a gig in radio, you know, talking on the air all the time.

Same kind of thing. A bit of entertainment, a bit of, you know, a bit of music involved there, right? And then I was listening to podcasts. I don't know what made me start listening to podcasts, but I started listening at the gym. And it was Joe Rogan, like everyone else, I think, their introduction to podcasts. So I was listening to his and kind of, you know, as I said, having this bit of an interest in radio and then having the equipment already from the music side of things, it was kind of easy for me to just try it. And I thought, okay, give it a shot. I don't know if there was, you know, there was obviously a bit of planning in there, but it was something that I think I probably was on my mind for a couple months.

And then I was like, well, okay, I've got the equipment. Let's just try it. And, you know, I did start with video at first on mine, too. But again, the family life gets pretty busy. So editing the video and that, I kind of dropped that off pretty quick. But that was kind of the start. Joe Rogan listened to it. And I thought, that's cool.

I like talking to people and see what comes out. Just kind of started and tried it. Okay. So how did you go about choosing and selecting guests? Because that's always something that interests me. and I think it's always interesting to see what pulls you at certain people. So what was that kind of first year like in terms of selecting guests, reaching out to them, inviting them on? I had a pretty broad group of friends, you know, acquaintances because of my gigs and playing at different public events and, you know, some big fundraisers and meeting a lot of people and then them coming out to the pub to see me.

So I have a very broad group of acquaintances, I would say. And so I was just trying to think, you know, okay, who would be cool to talk to from there? And then also at the beginning, it was a lot of, you know, really close friends of mine who I knew had a bit of a story that we might be able to talk about in certain things. And so I was pulling from my friend group, you know, mostly direct degree of separation. Wouldn't that be the first degree? And then, but one of the interesting was I saw this guy speak at an event. that I was playing music at. And so I had never met him before.

This was kind of my first, like, random guest. And heard him speak and just got his business card or just remembered his name, looked him up on Facebook or whatever, and sent him a message and said, Hey, man, I was really interested in what you're talking about. And, you know, will you come on my podcast? And he replied with this big professional thing, you know, like kind of like yours that you have, which I really commend you on, you know, your letterhead with all the questions and your invitation. And so he had it all planned out because obviously he's probably been on a thousand podcasts already.

But he said yes to me. And I was like, okay, this is cool. And so I had a great chat with him. And yeah, it was pretty, the guests were a bit random for sure. Like that just like a Joe Rogan, right? Where it's, and even yours, you know, it's people from all different walks of life that I just thought either had something important to share or just a story themselves that they might want to talk about and talk out almost. you know. Yeah, no, I think that that's so valuable. And I love seeing individuals like yourself in the space because it helps me learn. Like, as I said, with Karen Bondar and Lucas Simpson, I was able to

listen to yours and go, how do I develop questions based on what I've heard? And how do I make sure that I'm not asking the same question twice? How do I make sure I take advantage of the fact that you have a podcast and you've interviewed those people? And you've kind of shared how they approached conversation so that I can go into it more prepared, have a better understanding on how to move forward. And I always appreciate that because it's like to me, podcasts are great because they're not competitive with each other. I learned something from your interviews and Tim McAlpine when he interviewed Brian Minter. I listened to that and went, okay, like Brian kind of made a good comment. He's like, yeah, I never get to really like talk about my wife fully. Even though she's been behind

this business, she supported it from the beginning. And she means the world to me. And she never gets the spotlight and I was like okay well with this episode like let's just talk about your partner let's talk about your journey together and so I think for like the first hour we like just talked about his wife how they started the business together their journey together so I could fill that gap that it sounded like he kind of felt like uh was missing because when you meet brian most people go to the gardening they go to the business side of things and they don't go where perhaps he wants to take the conversation and so I think that the medium is so valuable in order for us to have the interesting conversations and for um your journey it was so cool to see that you you took the

more honest approach like i saw some of your uh your episodes were more personal to you where they it just sounded like it was just you and it was you just kind of laying out what was going on in your life um or what you were going through or uh talking more personally and i think that that's so valuable when i think that's missing on social media yeah for sure and um you know on that topic of just kind of being vulnerable, as you said, you know, is something that you really push for on your show. And that's, it's just, I feel like that's what the world needs now is vulnerability and honesty more so, you know, at all levels, you know, especially, you know, starting at the top

with our governments and stuff. And I think there has to be this change in people just being more open and honest, whether you're right or wrong, you know, and then finding that common ground and we're helping people through what they're going through and allowing people to have all the correct information, you know, even just about yourself so that you know exactly who I am and, you know, what I'm feeling and what I'm thinking. And then, you know, we can have more honest, vulnerable conversations. And sometimes it just takes one person opening up to make someone else feel okay opening up, you know. And the honesty thing is it's, yeah, it can't be understanding.

understated, right? And if someone's going to judge you for being honest, then that probably speaks more about them than what maybe you did wrong. If you made a mistake somewhere, right? Then not a big deal. You know, everybody makes mistake. Again, with the cliches, but, you know, you have to be okay hearing other people's mistakes and you have to be okay showing your mistakes and being honest and working together to find out how to help each of you and how to help certain situations and just kind of take better care of each other and be better friends and be better politicians and, you know, it works on all levels for sure. I think that that's one that I really hope takes hold because you're starting to see that

certain podcasts are bigger than news media and that gives me hope that our politicians will consider utilizing these platforms, have more honest open form dialogues where there's a video you can see me, you can see Andrew, you can decide whether or not we're being genuine based on all the information, how our voice sounds, how we look, how we're describing things you have, like all the data you can have without actually being in the room with the person that you need to make an informed decision. Whereas with like a social media post, you can say whatever you want. You can make it sound as good as you want and it can be the least genuine thing you write. And I think that hopefully politicians and leaders will say, I'm, I'm good for you.

for an open conversation. I'm open for a long-form analysis. Like I've interviewed Jason Lum, Sue Not. These are individuals who are politicians, but they're also just people in our community. They're not people in high levels of government where you never hear from them and they're distant from their community. These are people right here that are willing to share their story, where they grew up, where they lived, what they've been through, and situate you on who they are. And I think that hopefully that's what the direction we go in, because short-form debates where you have like an hour debate and everybody's interrupting each other and arguing this is not how you want people to lead your community this is not

the best case scenario on how they're going to handle problems and when do you ever see someone actually like win a debate and the other person changes their mind yeah you know what I mean like it doesn't happen just because this person won the debate doesn't mean this person changes his mind yeah so there there's not really any you know they're not working together middle ground they're working against each other yeah yeah yeah I'm very hopeful because I find this space so interesting to learn from how other people interview, how other people choose to, like, lead the conversation. What has that experience been like for you?

Because I know in the back of my mind, I'm always running like, what's the next question going to be, how do I guide this, this direction, or what is like, where do I want to take this? How long do I want to pull this for? What has that process been like for you? Are you able to be more in the moment than I guess maybe I am? I think to a fault, I'm able to be more in the moment than. and go with a bit more of a flow. But then, oh, yeah, I'm then I'm lost.

I'm like, wait, what were we talking about? That was a skill I definitely worked on, was kind of, you know, keeping that structure, but allowing the fluidity, like, because you'll go off on a 15-minute tangent, but then you still want to be able to tie it back to the question you asked 15 minutes ago to make sure you kind of covered that or you wrap it up properly. Otherwise, yeah, it's just kind of going all over the place and the listeners have a hard time. It's still a very enjoyable conversation, but it's harder for the listeners to follow along. So that's one part where I was trying to get better at it. And yeah, with, you know,

keeping a bit of rigidity to the interview and make sure you are covering everything you want to cover. Right. What has the process been for you? Because for me personally, I carry, I guess, this personality out into the world with me, perhaps to a fault where I am really good at asking questions now. And so with friends or people outside of a podcast recording, I'm asking like a lot of in-depth questions or I'm trying to follow up and be like, okay, well, how did that impact you? Where did you take this? And they're like, this isn't a podcast. Like, what are you doing? Like, I was just telling you about like my life circumstance. And so what has the interview skills kind of impacted you outside of just the podcast recordings? Well, it's just made me talk more, like, and more openly, but also, I mean, to ask my wife or any of my friends. I had this conversation with Dylan, my drummer, Dylan Waitman, and, you know, just talking about, you know, what's different about me these days, which it almost felt a bit self-serving to ask, but I really wanted to know. And, you know, he was like, well, you're just more interested in stuff.

You talk more. You talk more. And that's something I was lacking. And I don't know where it came from. Like, I'm a pretty outgoing person, I guess, in public, you know, at my job, you know, being an entertainer, musician, this kind of thing. But then I think when it's my downtime, I would revert to just being, okay, I can chill out. I don't have to be on.

I don't have to be the guy that everyone's talking to now or that creates all these conversations. But then I was missing that part of my life because sometimes conversations at work aren't as genuinely to say. Just like when you say you go to school and sometimes it's surface level stuff, right? So I was missing the deeper connections. So through podcasting, it was forcing me to have deeper conversations. and actually sit down like this for a couple hours and talk to someone face to face. So that's brought, that's been brought forward into my real life, IRL in real life. Yeah.

That's what the kids say. And so that's been a great accomplishment for me is just being able to talk more to people, you know, in a real way, not just on that surface level. And especially the people I care about, you know, like my wife. like my best friends, you know, even, you know, getting on the phone and having actual conversations with them. So I think that's the biggest thing that I've taken from it. Yeah, I think that that's so interesting to see, I guess, for me, other people who have not been in the space of, like, interviewing people so they don't know how to ask follow-up

questions or the conversation kind of fizzles, and then you're like, oh, yeah, like, I'll pick this up because I know what to do. But other people don't have those, I guess, conversational skills of how to have a long-form conversation. They're used to 10, 15 minute conversation. So once you hit that point, some people fall off and they don't know where to go. So I hope that more people perhaps utilize these platforms just to start to develop themselves. Because I think I've gained a lot from it personally, just being able to prepare, think about someone's contributions like yourselves to the community and like learn about them prior so that I know how to approach

the conversation. So I have like a rubric in my mind of like, okay, these are the parts that I like to tackle on this conversation, but we'll go wherever it goes. Yeah, one of the other things, I don't, I don't know if it's tied into my podcasting or not, but just in terms of conversations that I'm trying to be a bit more comfortable with is a bit more silence. I know that's bad for podcasts or whatever, but I can, I usually do a bit of editing anyways, if there is a bunch of dead silence, you know, or someone's stumbling over a question there. But, you know, in my conversations every day now, I try and be a bit more excited.

of some silence, you know, in the dead air. And because it's not that it has to flow one after the other, because that's when you get into that disingenuine. You're not really thinking about what you're saying sometimes. You're just asking your next question because you think you have to ask something or say something. But, you know, taking that time, taking that maybe it's five seconds of silence. And sure, it might feel a little awkward, but the more it happens, the more you can, you know, make it a regular thing and not think about it.

But it doesn't have to be a big deal if you're talking to someone. And then you sit there for 10 or 20 seconds in silence before talking again. Yeah, I actually, I don't know if you've heard of Lex Friedman, but he just interviewed Elon Musk. I think for the fourth time, very interesting conversation. But one of Lex's comments afterwards was Elon stops and thinks for like 20 seconds. And he's like, I'm going to leave that in. And he explains why. He's like, you have to admire that he's thinking these questions through.

He doesn't have, if I'm asking him a complex question, he can't know the answer off the top of his head he has to process the information think it through and he was like I'm not going to edit that out because admire the fact that this person is taking the time to think this through admire the fact that there are things running through his mind that he's trying to sort out and have humility for the fact that he's doing that live he's not we're not going to cut that out because you need to understand people have to think people have to have like we don't all have the answers within two seconds of asking the question. Sometimes if it's a good question, it's going to give you pause. And I think

that that's something podcasters or interviewers need to start to adopt is just an understanding that you don't want a guest who's able to answer the question every second after you speak that they have the answer because it's probably not the right answer or they haven't given enough time to kind of think it through. And if you're a person who's going to turn that off as a consequence and say, I don't have time for them to think. It's like, well, you probably shouldn't even tune in then because you're not ready for the intellectual journey that these two are going on. And I would say there's are a bit more intellectual in terms of like what they were discussing, like mechanics and engineering and topics that go over my head.

But having that humility of like, this is a conversation and we're going to process it at our own speeds and you have to be adaptable because there's certain guests I've noticed that talk a lot slower and speak more eloquently and they're processing the information as they're speaking. And it's like I could trim every part of that. but that's not who they are. And I'm trying to give you an accurate representation. And with video, I obviously can't really edit it out. So we'll just leave it as is. And I hope that as us as interviewers develop, people listening start to develop themselves and understand like, okay, if somebody's going to be thinking or pausing, that you take

advantage of that, appreciate that they're processing this with you and that you're on this conversation with them and you're learning with them. Yeah. otherwise and that's something I started being a bit more forgiving with because otherwise if you take out all that space then it just doesn't sound real and you know you're like you're thinking oh that's not how people talk you know they don't start sentences this close together or whatever um so then it was you know I was having to say okay no got to leave a bit of space in there you know and you can't take everything out even if you want it to flow nicely right but

yeah it's it's it is it just should be an actual conversation You know, yeah, as long as someone doesn't get up and leave for five minutes, then you should be good to let most things go. Absolutely. Can you tell us about some of the guests you've had on that stood out to you? I saw that you had, I think it's Joel Swattsky, on a 12-year-old who knows a lot about history, knows a lot about the Soviet Union and what was going on in our past. Can you tell us about some of the guests you've had on and what you got out of them? Yeah, well, he was incredible, you know, just the wealth of knowledge that he has. And he's actually taking an interest in podcasting now, too.

And I know his parents got him a microphone for Christmas. So hopefully he's going to start up something because that was incredible, you know, just to see a young man who cares so much about something. You know, that was the main thing that I took from it. I was like, you know, I hope more and more people care this much about something, you know, that they can get so interested in it and, you know, learn everything there is to know about it. And so that was a really cool one. I think the one that always pops up to me is I interviewed my sister Michelle, who's a recovering drug addict.

And, you know, her story is just incredibly. You know, she was down there with the worst of them. And she got back up, dusted herself off and put a lot of work into it. And now she's, you know, helping other addicts recover. And so I really commend her for that. And it was just, it was good, again, to sit down with her, my sister, you know, and actually hear this story front to back. Like, hey, what happened to you? you know tell people and and that's one that i hope you know people continue listening to that

that maybe have a friend going through something similar or they themselves struggle with it and you know because she's an incredible woman and you know i know she has and can help a lot of people in similar situations so that's one that always stood out to me and um yeah there's been another one that stands out actually you'll appreciate this was with uh um my my drummer's sister actually she's a a yoga teacher and just a very interesting spiritual person and I was talking with her and then she left and yada yada yada the whole episode got deleted and so she came back the next day and we redid the entire conversation so that one stood out to me for sure as well that actually happened to me with Alex Hart who's a photographer here he worked on grad photos by donation during

the pandemic because what he noticed was that so many individuals who are graduating from university were not able to celebrate in any way, shape, or form right after. And he was like, how can I go about contributing to, like, sharing their story? And so he did it by donation, so individuals didn't have to pay exorbitant amounts. I know for my grad photos, I think they were like $400 for photos. I'm not even, like, I don't even think of cream of the crop photos. So he did it by donation. But then he'd spend like an hour with. them and some of that would just be hearing their story how did you get here what was your university experience like and one of them was um this boy from i think it was india came here and

he was away from his family and he couldn't go home due to the pandemic and so he had to do his graduation by himself and so i think if i remember the story correctly um Alex had his family zoom in um like on zoom for his grad photos so they could take photos and he could hold his family while he was taking his photos and like those moments are so special to be able to share those types of unique stories, but we recorded, it was my first time recording outdoors, and I didn't put the pad on my road go-toes. And so a whole bunch of wind where you couldn't hear anything. And I contacted people. I was like, is there any way we can salvage the audio? And they were like, uh, like, we'd have to pay like $500. And then it's only a maybe that we could actually

fix it. And it was like, we're going to have to re-record this. And I felt terrible for a few months and then we were able to re-record it, put it back together and, like, have a good recording. But those moments are so tough because I've had a few scares of losing the audio or having it not turn out well and then getting scared that, like, I just wasted three hours of this person. And then what am I going to invite them back on to do three more hours? I was really lucky that, as I said, Christy is a yogi. And, you know, we were talking about very much so about letting things go, just breathing, you know, being in the moment. And so when I saw that happened, I was like, okay, I guess we'll have to redo it.

You know, I didn't really freak out, you know, like probably would have five years ago if something like that happened. But, you know, it was more like, okay, nothing I can do about that. I know it's, I tried a couple things. And I was like, okay, I know it's completely gone. Time to move on. Let's see if she wants to do it again. Can you tell us about your space, how you set it up and things that you put into the podcast that I don't think gets seen? Like, how do you go about preparing for a podcast?

In terms of preparation, I'd say you've got me beat on that one, Aaron, as well as your studio space. This is pretty awesome. You know, preparation I do, of course. You know, I've got my page and notes that I keep with me. There's some of the more fun parts of it is, you know, I created a few, like, musical drops where I had a different segment and I would push the button and it would play this drop that. I had recorded, you know, one of them was for family time, this little jingle that I was playing, and then the kids were even singing on it. And then another one about, I would always ask people, we would just do this fun ranking thing, like rank your three favorite

chocolate bars or whatever. And I had like a drop that I would push a little theme song for that for that as well. Yeah. So those were kind of some of the fun, more fun things that I worked on afterwards, you know, just afterthoughts like we were talking about. You know, I had this idea. I'm like, oh, yeah, I should do a little, should write a little song for that. You know, it's just four or five seconds long, but then that's in there. And in terms of my space, you know, I had, I had some of the equipment I needed for recording. And then I actually hung up a bunch of moving blankets because we had just moved to Chilliwack when I was kind of resetting up my space. And so I had it covered in moving blankets because it was in an unfinished basement.

So it was really echoy. But moving blankets everywhere and it's a little maze even to get in. You've got to walk this way than that way. And then you're in the couple nice comfy red chairs. And otherwise, you know, yeah, just like this, face to face, you know. And, yeah, it works well. I'd like to finish it eventually, you know, once you get a bit more time to put into the actual studio, you know, get something a bit more, you know, kind of like this or whatever. It's a good place you have here.

I like it and you've done well. I'm very glad to hear that. And it's a huge compliment coming from someone like yourself because that was the part I was, I felt was the most important even before starting was like, I need the video. And just the reason being, as we mentioned before, I think it's important that people are able to judge for themselves, how authentic we're being, to be able to see the emotions. And like, for certain parts with certain guests, they get really emotional. They share certain vulnerabilities that I just don't think comes through unless you have that video element. And so setting it up, it was like, well, if I'm going to ask people to watch the video, it better look nice. And so it was an investment to try and set the space up properly.

But then hopefully I can use it for other things like I've had. Kim Gemmell come in and record her book for audio. So she's got an audio book online. And so I've tried to take advantage of the space in different ways. And I hope to continue to do that because I think that's an unmet market where an organization or a company will charge you like hundreds and thousands of dollars to record that. And then they'll want to use their own staff member or they'll want to use someone else. But to me, like with Kim Gemmell, it's like her story is that like her journey of facing

adversity and almost losing her child and what she went through. And so trying to share that and having somebody else say the words, it's not going to resonate. Nobody's going to want to listen to that. And so being able to offer a service like that and just let people come in and use the space, it's not being used if I'm not using it. So utilize the space, utilize the microphones, and get audiobooks out there from the phrase Valley. Hopefully that increases people's awareness of local creators in that way. Yeah, these spaces can be very versatile. I mean, for mine, obviously, I use it for a lot of music.

Like I recorded my last three acoustic songs down there. Like I did a, you know, a pandemic acoustic EP just wrote and recorded three original songs and put them out there. And I just, yeah, I rented a couple more mics from Long and McQuaid, but then I just did it in that little room that I had because I knew how to make it sound pretty good and I knew how to control it. And, yeah, so, you know, different things like that. And then like you're talking about kind of voiceover work, it's great. And yeah, if you can, you know, let people, let people use this space instead of, like you said, paying a bunch of money to go to a professional studio, which, you know, this is. You know, you've got all the equipment you need to make it sound good.

And, yeah, it's awesome. Awesome. So what does 2022 look like? I'm excited to hear more interviews and I like your style because you do have the vast array of people. Are you hoping to come back in 2022? What can we expect? Yeah.

I mean, it's it's one of those things, you know, I did those first 80-something episodes. And I'm very happy with a lot of them. And, you know, now that life just got a bit busier, as I said, we moved. You know, kids going back into school, then they're not in school, then they're, you know, all this stuff. And making scheduling the time is kind of the big hindrance right now for me. And because I also want to make sure I can come back and do it a bit more professionally even, you know, take it to that next level and make sure I'm putting in the time and effort that it takes to me. something, you know, a great podcast, you know, like, like you're doing, you know, and not that I was, you know, cutting corners before, but I just want to make sure I have that set time that I can

attribute to this. And I think that'll come, hopefully this year. I'm sure it will. I'm sure I'll do a few this year. And the other side of that, I don't know if you knew. I do a, I do a podcast with Dylan, and it's called Between Sets. We just kind of fired that one back up because that one That one went the wayside same time COVID did because what we do is at our gigs between sets. We go out to his car and just record on a little Zoom microphone, 10, 15 minutes of us just talking about the gigs or talking about what's going on. So we had done quite a few of those as well. And now we just recorded our first one last week or whatever. And so we're going to start doing those again at least.

So there's that you can look up if you're looking to hear my voice more. But most people have almost had enough of that, I think. I doubt that. So I would like to, I just want to make sure I have the time to make it as, to make it the best it can be. And I also want to write and record more music. And so it's kind of like almost weighing those two options. Like, okay, once I get this free time, you know, am I going to start doing more podcasts or do I really want to put some more time and energy into writing and recording more music? Maybe I find time for both.

I haven't quite decided yet, but I'm, you know, I'm loving the idea of getting back into podcasting, and I'm loving some of these songs and ideas that are coming in my head. So there's definitely some cool stuff on the horizon, just keep an eye out. What is the creative process you go to to kind of make those types of decisions? Because I imagine music speaks to you more, like, I guess personally, in terms of, like, what you're going through or your thoughts, whereas the podcast, it's like you're sharing somebody else's story. And you're kind of thinking about perhaps more about the community or your listeners rather than that more introspective journey with music. You know, and that's the other side of it is what I've been thinking about lately coming back with the AC show is it might be a bit more personal stuff or things that I've kind of come to realize or figured out over the course of the past couple years, you know, about myself and about the world. And, you know, so it might be still having a few guests here and there that kind of relate to the topics that that I want to talk about. I might be a bit more specific about what I'm looking to put out there and then look for guests in that way that kind of meet up with those ideas that I want to talk about instead of being so general and just bringing kind of anyone on to talk about any topic.

it might be a bit more specific. So I think that's something that I would like to do when I come back with the podcast in terms of, yeah, feeling it if it's the music or if it's the podcast, you know, it is because the music is so much more personal and expressive and it's, it almost feels like a better outlet for me. Yeah. So there's that side of it as well. But man, I'd love to do it all. I'd love to have time. for everything. That's for sure. And I do think I will find time for both. But yeah, it would be a bit of a different looking AC show anyways, but, you know, still, still me. Yeah, there's definitely like a price to be paid for choosing a direction because I love talking about role models and leaders, but one of the prices I think I pay is there's certain people I'd be interested to talk to that I can't call a role model or a leader that kind of don't go into that category. And so I'm

like, I would, I think that person would be fascinating to talk to. But I would never be able to to put them under this platform and so I don't really get to talk to those individuals and so I guess sometimes I'm biased like I'm jealous of being able to talk to just anyone yeah yeah there's there's that part of it it is fun right and then you can uh but you know I think what what you're doing it's it's also like writing music you know something you're interested in and then and you'll find the audience who wants to listen to it you know if it's if this is what you're gearing this towards that's great because you have that direction and And you know exactly what you're looking for, the kind of questions you want to ask and things you want to talk about.

And then you can find the market of people who want to listen to that, right? Whereas in a very general form, if you're just doing, you know, something about hockey and then something about music and then something about politics, it's like, well, maybe this person isn't into politics. So they're not going to listen to that one. And then maybe they don't listen to you. Yeah. You know, so it's a weird, yeah, weird dynamic like that. Yeah, I like the idea of having people just have a source of motivation. whether or not you're an artist and you're interested in becoming like a musician or whether or not you're someone who's interested in gardening.

But like being able to get the story of like how somebody overcame adversity, I think is just the one piece I really felt like was missing from our community, was missing from the storyline. Because growing up personally, it was like, I don't know who I want to be and I don't know who I look up to that I would want to be like. and I didn't get to talk to people like Chief David Jimmy or Brian Minter or individuals where I go, like, you seem to have like special something. You have something you're offering the community that's so valuable that's like hard to put into words. And so just hearing their journey of how they got there, I think is hopefully valuable for individuals who are struggling. And I've had a few people who are like, I'm struggling with drug use or I'm like self-medicating with certain substances that I don't think I should be. but hearing these people's stories

helps me want to get on the right path and when Trevor McDonald shared his struggle with alcohol use and being an entertainer and the pressures he felt I think that that resonates with people in a way that you don't get to hear about if you just see him on a stage or if you don't get to hear his more personal story

and I think we as a community miss out if we don't hear that and something you said before about like we want people to go find their passion and share that and we again we as a community miss out If they don't, if people just stay at their nine to five job and never aspire to share anything more of value, we miss out and I think they miss out because there's something empty in their soul. There's something not fulfilled. If you don't figure out whether it's baking cookies or like writing music or becoming a professor at a university, whatever it is, starting a business, sharing that with the world is of such value. And it's the beauty of being free in Canada. You can do, you can find your passion. And you can share it, whatever that looks like.

And it might not be the moneymaker, but if you're doing something like this that you actually enjoy, it feeds the rest of your life. It lets you go out into the world and do better. Yeah. You know, that's something I was thinking about because it's thinking about you going through law school. I'm like, man, there must be a freaking grind. Like, and I'm sure you do enjoy a lot of it. I'm sure it's a hell of a lot of work. And, you know, just thinking that, you know, people, we need to make sure we have that balance at very least.

You know, if you're going to be working really hard. at something like law school and then and being a lawyer which you know isn't always going to be fun in games hopefully you do enjoy a lot of it but you need to have that balance where you're doing something like this that you that is just because you absolutely love it you know um or you know i consider myself really lucky where you know i do love performing love playing music and i wouldn't have it any other way and i'm lucky so i kind of automatically have that balance where you know majority of the time when i'm going to work i'm enjoying it yeah there's sometimes where i'd rather be home with my kids or wife at night, right? Or if I'm playing at a pub where nobody's

listening to me, they're just there getting drunk, drowning their sorrows. Like, those are the times where you're like, okay, I'm still at work, you know, but then I get to go home. I've got that balance. You know, I've got my family. I play sports. You know, I write music and these things. And so it's like, yeah, don't waste too much time doing stuff that you don't like. That's kind of, you know, a big part of this life because otherwise we're missing out on, you know, who who you can really be. If you're wasting time doing stuff that isn't fulfilling to you, then you're not going to put your best into it

and we're not going to get the best version of Aaron that you can be, you know. But it's, yeah, with your podcast here, I think you're, you know, you're doing the right thing. You've got your passion and then you've got something that, you know, might be a bit more sustainable, you know, in society where we live now, where, yeah, you got to pay rent. You got to, you know, pay your bills. You got to save money.

Yeah. Well, you're very kind. you've said a lot of very nice things and I appreciate it. I have worked hard on this and so to get recognition from someone like yourself who I do think is a leader in the podcast space in the Fraser Valley but also well-known person who's worked hard to share their craft. It's just it's an honor to receive any compliments from you. Can you tell us about your family because I think that that's the other part I think is so important. We get lost in the career in the entertainment but your family seems to be the roots of who you are and

And those roots seem to be strong and healthy. And so can you tell us about your family life and what that means to you? Because I think that that's, for so many listeners, the important part. Yeah. And I would love a chance to talk about them because, you know, it is the most important part of my life. And especially in this kind of long form where I can talk about them for a while instead of, you know, just snapping a pick up on Instagram and people see it. And they think, oh, look at this beautiful family. And, you know, that kind of feeling where it's, I haven't said anything about them.

You know, I just, I wrote a sentence and posted a picture. You know, you don't, you don't get the essence of it all, you know, without having the conversation. And, you know, it's families, hard work, you know, marriage and raising kids. It's hard. But it's the most rewarding thing you can do also, man. And like, it's, it just can't even put it into words, you know, when you're hanging out with your kids. And, you know, you see them doing something you used to do when you were. kid and you think wow like you know this is this is a little person you know they're going to grow up to

be maybe someone like me or maybe someone like that and all these possibilities you see in your kid's eyes you know and then what they're doing and just trying to think trying to wrap your head around who they could actually become when they grow up and and for me it's that parts it didn't come easily because i always you know lily didn't get a chance to grow up and it become something and It's almost hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that, you know, the three kids I have at home, Jaden, Haven and Ledger, Jaden's 13, my stepdaughter, Haven's 8, and Ledger's 2. And I'm like, you know, 99.99% chance they're going to grow up to be 20, 30, 40, 50. and it's like that's to me it's it's almost mind-blowing because I lost a kid um so it's and and but it's such a good feeling of that wow like I'm so lucky I'm actually going to see these

kids grow up for you know who knows how long and um so that's this sense of wonder and amazement that I get that is just so fulfilling um and then you know the other side of that just being there present with them, you know, sitting on the floor and playing with them and really soaking all that in. Like it's, man, it brings me to tears sometimes just being there, you know, if I get to a chance. And I'm not saying I do it every day or five hours a day where I'm playing with them, but, you know, to try and make sure we have that dedicated time with our kids is so important. Like when I get to sit on the ground and build Lego with Haven or just trying to create something,

whether it's following the instructions or something we do. But, you know, no phone, half an hour, just sit in there playing with her. And, like, it means so much to her. And it's also just so good for me to feel that connection and just forget about everything else, you know. There's, yeah, there's endless examples like that where it's so, I'm so lucky to be a parent to these kids.

Like I said, it's hard. they're still kids there's a lot of tough emotions to deal with you know haven's a very emotional um child in a very outward way you know lots of crying you know lots of screaming lots of hard days you know or fights and she's just so emotional and and uh you know and then jaden's a bit more hard a bit more rugged rugged and stubborn and you know it's just the way people are kids are when they're trying to figure out this world and so you know those are struggles you deal with but again you got to just kind of once it happens you got to try and put it behind you move on and uh yeah man so that's the parenting side is it's awesome i can't wait you know to see ledger my son grow up and

you know hopefully play a bit of hockey haven tried it she played for a year uh and then she said it hurt her back so she's not doing that but she's doing her soccer and and dance and jaden's really into horse riding and just hoping they can like i said about joel find something they really care about and for to have me there to support them and help them with that like that's something I'm really looking forward to and you know hopefully for ledger it's hockey because I would love to be really involved in hockey and you know grow up coaching him or whatever and if he wants to take it seriously I've always kind of said that I have a hard time with the coaching with kids sports if it's not serious and like at a certain level almost a lot of people I

don't know how they do it and all the props to them like these coaches for these kids teams it's incredible man and it's so important to have people like that I could do it for a little while but you know I'm more interested if he wants to take it seriously

and really learn how to play and get good I would love to be there with them you know the same as Jaden and Haven if they find that thing and they want to get good I'd love to push them like that

I was a pretty competitive guy I've toned it down now but yeah so lots that I I'm so lucky that I get to look forward to with these kids and everything just really

put into perspective because of because of Lily, right? Like it's, yeah, another, you know, another positive that came from that experience is I'm not going to, you know, take it for granted any time that I do get with these kids here. That's amazing. And I just think of like my partner, Rebecca and I, I don't know who my father is. And for her, both of her parents have kind of been hands-off parents in the worst ways and hands-on parents in the worst ways and hands-on parents in the worst. ways in that like getting mad at her for getting bad grades then not supporting her and trying to improve just just the negative side of being a parent and not having i think that deep relationship

with their children where it's like you get to just see the potential in someone and you just get to be around like pure potential and and innocence and honesty and trying new things and like joyful moments where they're just this is everything to them and having someone like yourself on who has that deeper, more meaningful understanding of what it is to be a parent. Because I think for the vast majority of individuals, they don't know how to be a good parent. They don't know how to be a truly loving parent where they're with their kids and they're building those great relationships and they want their child to reach whatever potential they have, whatever that looks like for them.

And just being that support, I think that many people can improve on that because they're carrying things from their life. Maybe they didn't reach their full potential. Maybe they're trying to do, like I had a friend who was like, oh, my parents were not, they didn't push me enough. So I'm going to push my kids really hard. And it's like, well, you're just switching sides. And then your kids are going to be like, my parents pushed me too hard. So now I don't want to be pushed.

And you're just playing both sides. The perfect spot is to be in the in between where you can, depending on the circumstance, switch back and forth between the two and go, okay, I've pushed you hard. Now I'm going to take my foot off and just support you because you tried your best and you didn't do that well. and that's okay. And that's like just to having that supportive person who's able to adapt to those circumstances, it sounds like that's how you approach things. And I just, I think that that's such a good example. Well, you know, and I do want to say a good example as a parent.

And by far am I perfect, you know, but something about what you were saying, you know, there's a lot of stuff working against parents these days, too, in terms of technology and social media and and just distractions and too much, you know, there's just too much going on. There's too much noise in the world to distract not only the kids, but the parents. And it's not easy, you know, and not to toot my own horn, but I consider myself lucky that I feel I've been able to get a hold of that and really put past that. And for me, it took something devastatingly tragic. And for a lot of people, it takes something devastatingly tragic for this switch to turn on or turn off, whatever you might say.

Other people, you know, you can work at it. There's a lot of practices, you know, exercise, meditation, you know, reading, writing, a lot of practices that will help your brain kind of decompress from all the noise that's going on in the world. And then you will slowly, you know, start to feel better about yourself, feel better about your kids. You'll become a better friend. You'll become a better husband. You'll become a better parent if you put the work in. But it is a lot of work. And there's a lot of easy ways to get around that work, but that probably aren't healthy, you know?

And it's, yeah, it's not an easy game. There's a lot against parents and families out there right now. But there's also a lot of things that can help. I think of the statement, and it's one of the ones I hate the most, which is figure out what makes you have. happy. Because I think it's the wrong level of analysis, but it's something that feels to me pervasive. Rebecca's parents, both of them, made decisions that I think harmed their relationship, like her dad moved away to Sam and Arm super far away, but he said, this is going to make me

happy. And so he did something, I think, that was an error to move that far from your kid in the claims of what's going to make you happy. Her mom has done similar things in the vein of this is going to make me personally happy. I don't think that's the right. analysis. I think it should be more like do what gives meaning to your life, do what fulfills your heart, do what brings your relationships with the people you care about closer together, like something like that because we miss out on individuals in our lives. If they're trying, if they're off trying to find what's going to make them happy in the short term, rather than what's going to give you a meaningful life long term. And you're right, there are probably nights where you

don't get a lot of sleep, where you're overworked and you're exhausted and you're doing the best you can and you're you're exhausted but it's meaningful that it's worthwhile to do that you know in the long term it's going to be beneficial and I don't think we always have the best conversation in regards to that you know and one of the words I would throw in there is being responsible you know and once you once you add in other people into your life like we all do we all have relationships friendships family and especially when you bring kids into your life then you can't just do what makes you happy. You have to, you have to be responsible. Like it's, you have responsibilities that you created, you brought into this world. Um, you know, they didn't, they didn't ask to come here.

You know, you brought them here. So you better, you know, you better do your part than be responsible. You can't just do what makes you happy anymore. It's important, obviously, take care of yourself so that you can be the best version of you, but that should never have a negative effect on your relationships with your kids or, or your husband or wife, you know? there's that element of responsibility that I think is is missing from a lot in today's world as well. And, you know, instead of there's some, there's some cool quotes and teachings going around about instead of thinking that we have all these rights, we should think that we have these responsibilities to, you know, to nature and to people and to our countries, if you wish, you know. But instead of thinking you have the right to do everything you want, think that you have a responsibility to do, certain things, which should help you and it should help everybody.

So responsibility doesn't have to be a bad thing, you know, it's, yeah, it's necessary. And especially for humans, you know, we are supposed to interact and supposed to be living together. But that comes with responsibility for taking care of each other. For sure, I just interviewed Adam Gibson a few days ago, who runs Excel martial arts. And we talked about that because right now, I think individuals in a state like Canada, we have rights under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, under the Constitution, but with those are the assumption that you have responsibilities to that. And I personally believe that each

individual is the cornerstone of the state, that we hold the government accountable, the government answers to us, the citizens. And I think that that's the proper level of analysis. And as I mentioned to Adam, if you disagree with me, you have to think that you're somehow subservient to the government. You have to think that you are like less than the government. And I think that's a dangerous path to go down because other countries have looked at it that way. And I'm sure Joel would do a better job of describing this. Yeah, you would. But there are problems that arise when you do something like that.

And I think that I don't disagree within my law school education. The responsibility side is something we don't talk about. And I think that we've gone down a wrong path when we do that because it's a sense of meaning when you hear you have responsibilities to vote. But I don't think we do a good. job of explaining why that matters. When you think of like, if your vote is not going to sway the election, people go, well, why bother?

And it's because you're helping inform what issues matter to Canadians. Whether or not that gets in, if you, like, vote green, you're basically saying, I care about these set of issues. And whether or not the Green Party takes power or not doesn't matter. It shows that there's a population

that cares about those issues. And that helps us understand where are Canadians at in a more broader understanding and in your local politics, you can start to see how you can make a difference. And so I think that that's important that people are reminded of because that's where, like, the value of the individual comes in and to remember that, like, you do have value. If something's, if you're passionate about something, whether it's drug reform or criminal justice reform or social justice issues, if you're passionate about those things, it's your role

to not only voice them, but to figure out the next five steps forward that are evidence-based, we can do better as a society because there's not people necessarily looking to fix things on the deeper fundamental issues. And I might be a little bit controversial for saying this, but the rainbow crosswalks thing, to me, is like, that's fine. If we want to do things to make a statement, but what are the substantive issues we're saying we're going to do? Because from my understanding, there's no evidence that changing the color of a crosswalk actually changes people's personal circumstances. And I care about improving the circumstances of individuals, if we can. And so let's look at that. And so I think it's important to look at evidence-based issues

and to make sure that when we're trying to move forward, we're doing it in the right way with an understanding of what is the evidence and how do we do better as a society and what responsibilities do we have to do better as a society. Yeah, man, there's a lot there for sure. But, and, you know, part of that is, yeah, people need to take that responsibility and educate themselves if they want to, you know, start making these changes or start proposing different ideas, you know, it's having those next steps laid out where you better have, you know, your ducks in a row. Otherwise, nobody's going to take you seriously. And it's, it's tough to know, you know, are you helping or are you just doing something at face value because

you were told to, you know, or because you think, if we don't do this, we're going to get in trouble. You know, yeah, I guess you should still do things, you know, maybe like the rainbow siderock or whatever, but it would be a hell of a lot more helpful. if you had those next steps in line, if you know why you're doing this and what it's going to help and what it's going to improve or have some other,

you know, just a bit more of a game plan. You know, it can't just end there. You know, you have to have follow up plans. You need to really know what you're wanting to do

and what you're talking about. That's one of the issues with, I know podcasts like we were talking about are a great platform to get a lot of this information out there. But there's also the issue of, you know, there could be guys on here

that don't know what the hell they're talking about really, right? And they could be really popular guys too. Or, you know, they could be amplifying voices that seem to know what they're talking about, but you still have to go in there with, you know, your own critical thinking, you know, just because it says doctor before this guy's name doesn't mean he's speaking the truth. It doesn't mean he's speaking about the well-being of society. You don't know what these people's motives really are. It's tough.

And so with everything, yeah, you need to put that critical thinking cap on. And that's something that I've really, and I still need. to keep tuning up in myself in listening to these conversations is is not, you know, taking everything at face value and digging into it a bit deeper, right? And like, it's important. It's tough because there's so much, there's so many issues in the world today, first of all, and there's so much information out there. How do you discern what's good information and bad?

And, you know, it does make it, make it hard on people. That's the same thing. Like I was saying, there's so much working against people today, not just parents, but regular people. It's like, it's tough, man. And you really need to, again, use some practices to keep your head on straight and make sure you're happy, make sure you're being responsible for your, you know, your bubble of people you got close to you. Yeah, it's not

easy. Choosing guests is a particularly difficult one when there's certain topics that are taboo or that you don't really want to touch too much because it's unpopular or because there is a larger narrative that you would be working against. And those ones have been really challenging for me to go, like, where do I, where do I want to land on this? Because I don't want to promote someone or platform someone, whatever that means, that goes against certain narratives that are going to cause harm to people. But I also don't want to, I think we have responsibilities with our right to freedom of speech, to have tough conversations. And we might not all agree, but it's important that we hear both sides of the argument and try and find a balanced perspective. And I just saw CBC News last night

did one on trying to like prevent like political extremism going too far on one side or too far on the other and they were laying out you should try and find a source on the left on the right and in the middle and then whatever facts are consistent amongst those is probably whatever reality is is something we can all agree on to move forward and I think that tools like that hopefully help people find that balanced perspective but I don't disagree I think that as you take on this position you have certain responsibilities and that's why I hope building a like who you've had on as guests or you can trust that maybe you didn't have the right guest on that time, but you're trying your best because you're never going to get a hundred

percent perfect because you don't, I don't know everything about you until I have you on until we sit down and have the conversation. And I think that that's always going to be the struggle that individuals like ourselves are going to face. Yeah, yeah, man, finding that balance. If I can, I don't know why I just popped in my head, but bring it back to question about family or whatever. And the balance thing is, you know, my wife, Jamie, you know, I feel like we're one of those couples where it does it's that we balance each other out

because of that we piss each other off so much you know where that we compliment each other whereas you know she's pretty pretty stern pretty you know she'll voice her opinion anytime you know I'm a bit more reserved where I'll collect my thoughts and think about everything I want to say and mull it over and you know and so

she's like why aren't we can we talk about this can we talk about it I'm like well I'm just taking some time I want to think about it and she's like well what's there to think about let's talk you know And so in the relationship, sometimes that causes a few fights or whatever, but out in public, if she's ready to go take on the world, if someone who kind of, not disrespect to our family, but just something's up and she needs to take care of it, she's going to go take care of it. You know, whereas I might be like, okay, well, I just, can I just think about this for a bit? But she's kind of that go-getter, that then I'm a bit more calm. She's the crazy. That's what we always say.

And it just balances each other out. You know, it's still going to cause some confrontation, just like these conversations. could. If you're someone's extreme left, someone's extreme right, you know, it's, I guess that's maybe not the greatest example, but there needs to be the balance where you can, you can talk about it, you can see the way that you can work together on things, you know, and that's, I mean, that's why Jamie and I are working at this, you know, it's, it's rare to find someone that you are perfectly compatible with or so much, so much alike that it works, you know, it's more oftentimes. And in those, I feel like those might be the easier relationships.

But I think they're very rare, you know, and it's more often that you find someone that, oh, I wish I was a bit more like this. Or Jamie says, oh, I wish I was a bit more like this, what she sees in me. And so you find those people and, yeah, you clash heads a bit and it makes a bit more work for it. You've got to really try and understand each other. But that's why those can be successful because, you know, I wish I was a bit more like Jamie sometimes. And I think she wishes she was a bit more like me sometimes. And so we compliment each other that way And it kind of works out

But yeah, there's always There's always got to be a balance You know, you can't go in one extreme or the other Yeah What has that been like In terms of making music and podcasts Does she listen to prior? Do you guys interact?

Because I know for certain episodes I try and have my partner Listen to the episode beforehand Before I release it So she can give me her feedback Was I crazy to ask this question? Did I go too much on a tangent? How can I improve my interview skills?

so she can kind of see where I was going with something and like, oh, why didn't you ask this question or you should have asked this question so I can have more of what somebody else thinks in my mind when I'm trying to develop these conversations. Yeah, Jamie's very good at giving her opinion, whether it's my music or the podcast or whatever, and she's very good at complimenting them as well when it is something she likes. And, you know, it's tough to take criticism, I think, sometimes from your partner like that. But, you know, at the end of the day, when I really sit with it and think about it, you know, it is helpful sometimes. Sometimes she'll say things and I'm like, no, that's not right. I'm not going to do it that way, you know, this is my show or my song. But then sometimes she'll bring something up. And after thinking about it, I'm like, yeah, I guess, you know, maybe I should work on my follow-up after I ask a question or something.

This is something she brought up. I'd have to listen back to see if I do any better at it now. But, you know, because you want to try to keep the conversation moving, but you don't just want to ask. a question and then move on yeah you know that's something i struggled with in the beginning as well yeah but it's like well i know but we got to get to the next point because we only have an hour you know or whatever right but uh you know and then in terms of songs i mean i take that with a grain of salt because not everybody's going to like every song you know and i'm lucky she does like some of my stuff but you know there's other songs she's like that i really like and she says oh

i just didn't feel like it went anywhere and i'm like what i love this song how did you say that But, you know, it's, it's, yeah, she likes, she definitely listens to a lot of what I do. And I know she enjoys a lot of it and she's very happy to talk about it. And like I said, give her opinion. And sometimes it does. It really helps. So I'm thankful for that too. I'm also interested to know.

You said you moved to Rider Lake. I have a theory and maybe a hypothesis that it really helps where you live. And it sounds like you moved from Surrey. which is a very different environment. It's a lot busier, probably don't know your neighbors all that well if you're in a normal neighborhood in Surrey. Whereas in Rider Lake, that is a tight-knit community. And Rebecca and I drive up to Rider Lake once a week just to drive through the community. We've picked up eggs there.

We just love the environment there because it is a genuine community of people who know each other, who've known each other for years. And so I'm interested in what moving there meant to your family, how that impacted you. Did it affect you at all? Well, I do think it's helping in slow us down a bit, you know, whereas like said in Surrey, like we were in South Surrey, kind of near White Rock there, but still super busy traffic everywhere, our houses everywhere.

It's a different type of neighbor, I guess, you know, if you do know your neighbors. And, you know, then moving to Ryder Lake, everything's a bit more calm. There's not as much noise, like just literally, there's not as much noise. And, you know, there's more nature, a bit more. space, you know, probably cleaner air to breathe and all these things. They must add up. And I do think, you know, I still push Jamie to slow down more and more. But she has. I can tell that she's relaxed a bit and I've relaxed a bit. And the kids, you know, we got Jaden involved with horses out here quite a bit. And so I feel like she's relaxing a bit more. And again,

work in progress as always, but yeah, it is, I don't know if, yeah, if humans were supposed to live so close together, you know, like in Vancouver or, you know, in Richmond or something. Like, I don't know if that's the way to get the best out of us, but it's, it's the way it is in some places. And if you're lucky enough where you can find a bit of space, and I think it's, I think it can be really helpful. Yeah, I just think of like our circumstance and we've had people make offhanded comments, parking, pulling in, coming up the stairs. And it just, it gives me like, uh, like I love people. I think people are so interesting. And like, one of the secrets to this podcast is like, people will be like, how do you choose guests? And it's like, the secret is people

are super interesting. If you take the time, if you slow down and hear their story, there's not many people that don't have some interesting story to share. Um, but when you're so close together with people, it's like, uh, during the height of COVID, we had people trying to take the elevator with us. And it's like, what do you, you know that this is not the time to be doing this to wait the extra 45 seconds and take your, like, and so like you get this kind of like dislike for like, stop, stay away. And like, I don't like having that feeling. But it's a consequence of living in such a small area where I can hear my neighbors to the right and to the left and all around me. There's people all the time. And so you don't have the same appreciation for them.

And when we're out and right or like, people wave, they have no idea who we are. They don't care. because the odds that they're going to see a car is pretty rare. It doesn't happen very often, and so you have more of appreciation when you see your neighbor or when you see someone walking down the road. And so I just admire those communities so much and believe there's so much for us to keep in mind with those communities because that is what a community should look like, in my opinion,

in best case scenario. And I know not everybody can afford that, but we like going to the agassies and to the rider lakes and to the areas that are slower-paced, because that's where people, I feel like, have more of an admiration for the environment, for calmness, for quiet. We never drive fast through those communities. It's always 20 or 30 kilometers an hour because we don't want to bother anyone.

You're peacefully reading a book outdoors under a tree. It's like, I don't want to disturb you. That's so cool that you're doing that, not something you're going to see in downtown Chilliwack as much. Yeah, again, it's just about that noise. There's so much of the noise in the world today, and it's important to get away from it as much as you can. And if you're lucky enough that you can live in a place like that, then even better, you know. But yeah, like you said, not everybody gets that chance. And it's, yeah, it's just that it's tough.

You know, not everybody has a chance to avoid all the negativity that's in this world or all the things that are bad for them. Like some people, you actually can't help it. Like, because it's not just up to them or it's not just up to the individual sometimes. It's, there's, you know, there's outside forces that play on all that. You know, whether it's things like addiction or just things like living in a busy city or being able to afford housing certain places or not. And, you know, it's just there's, yeah, it's tough. Not everybody can be so lucky. And that's why I do consider myself very lucky, you know.

How do you take care of yourself? Because you've talked about, like, trying to perform at your best and do your best. I'm interested to know what that journey has been like because you look like a very fit person. You look like you try and take care of yourself so you can perform well at night and get good sleeps. Can you just tell us a little bit about how you approach your own well-being? Well, I'll start off by saying the one thing I hope to improve over the next few years is sleep, but that's just because of the kids, you know, and a couple of dogs and cats we have now. But I, and yes, Jamie, my wife, I do love our one big dog, Gord that we got.

We got a new fee, and he's freaking fantastic. But the other pets running around the house are, you know, not my favorite. But she did convince me to get this big dog and I love him. He's awesome. But so, you know, the sleep thing is, honestly, it's so important that I think a lot of people overlook it. I think a lot of people go to sleep the wrong way. I think a lot of people wake up the wrong way and a lot of people don't get enough sleep. And it's one of the most important things for your health.

So that's an area that I can improve and I think will improve as, you know, kids get older, as whatever. You know, things just slow down a bit around there. But for now, that means I have to focus a bit more on exercise, which has always come pretty easily to me. I'm lucky I grew up playing sports. So I kind of know how to exercise and move my body. That's something that I think I take for granted, that I don't think everybody knows really how well to move their body and how to exercise properly or even at all. Like I think, again, I was lucky. I grew up playing sports, so I know how this works and I know how good it is for me.

A lot of people don't even have that knowledge, interestingly enough. So, you know, exercise is just a big thing. Even if it's just walking up the hill around Rider Lake or whatever, or, you know, I've got a few weights at home. I used to be in the gym five days a week, lifting weights or whatever. But then it came to a time where I was like, no, this isn't the right place for me. I think I could do things. I could be a bit more productive in my exercise. So, you know, I'm exercising up in my room, in our rec room at the house, and the kids are crawling around playing.

So I'm still kind of having time with them, or at least. around, I can help take care of them still while I'm exercising, or it's getting outside and exercising, you know, because, yeah, certain types of exercise are better than others for you. You know, it can be more beneficial mentally, you know, to be outside exercising than in a gym, you know, pump and iron. But, you know, if you're going there, great, keep it up. Yeah. Because it's, you know, the physical benefits are awesome. So, I mean, that's part of it. And eating wise, I eat my broccoli. You know, I do, I really enjoy food, really enjoy beer.

And, you know, so I try and exercise to keep that in balance, you know. I always tell people, I don't know how accurate this is, but, you know, if you're not going to exercise, then you better not drink and you better not eat crap. You know, if you're going to exercise, then, sure, you can eat a bit more crap and you can, you know, have a few beers here and there. Or if you exercise a lot, then drink and eat whatever you want, you know. There's got to be that balance again, right? Uh, so diet, you know, I'm right down the middle for diet, you know, I eat a lot of junk too, but I do eat healthy quite often. Um, and then, you know, even more so than the actual, like, uh, you know, workouts or whatever, I stretch a lot now. That's something that's changed for me.

I, um, usually twice a day, like your first thing in the morning, I'll try and get outside on my deck and just do 10 minutes of stretching and then sometime in the afternoon, get on the roller and stretch things out. Um, so I think that's, it's, it's, another kind of meditative state where if you're just concentrating on that, it's good. And then actual meditation, you know, I'm probably four or five times a week. I am doing a meditation and, you know, just allowing myself to calm down and really concentrate on exactly what's going on in that moment. And, yeah, you know, that's kind of what I would attribute to if I seem like a healthy, happy guy. That's what it's from.

And these are all things people can do. Yeah. And I mean, and I write, you know, I started journaling a bit more seriously. That's just within the last six months. You know, not writing songs, just writing stuff. I think that's another great practice that, yeah, again, just get some emotions out and helps you block out all the noise that's going on. And, yeah. What started that for you? What it started the journaling? What, because, like, it's something I hear a lot, but I don't see a lot of people take full advantage of. And it's something even I know. is good for you, but it's something I haven't taken advantage of. I think part of it I know Dylan does. And in terms of like role models and leaders and stuff, you know, I don't want to toot his horn too much, but, you know, he's a guy I look up to. He's a very healthy guy.

He's got a great head on his shoulders and, you know, physically fit mentally well, you know, works hard, very smart guy. And so, you know, I've talked to him a lot about these practices. And, yeah, I think it's something he's done or actively doing. And then I had found myself just wanting to write a bit more anyway, kind of off and on. But then, you know, hearing of more of a daily routine being even more beneficial for you, I tried to get into it. I'm not quite daily yet. But, again, just because waking up, getting the kids ready, getting them up the door, whatever it is.

But, you know, at least a few times a week, I'm writing in my journal. and yeah you know it's just it's just trying all these different things yeah if if it makes sense to me that it would be good for me then I'm probably going to try it yeah you know that's interesting how does that interact with meditation because they seem like they might interact a bit but are you more focused just on being calm in the moment of meditation because I feel like for me I'd start to get reflective and then I'd want to grab it like a journal or something yeah I've there's definitely times where I do write immediately after meditation. And I think they're more so connected where writing can be very meditative if you're just getting into that flow and letting

whatever comes into your head get down on the paper. You know, it is very meditative. And then in terms of meditation, turning reflective, yeah, there is that part of it. I think then oftentimes I do come out of a meditation and and there's been zero reflection, I think. It's almost like it's almost like those 15, 20 minutes didn't even happen, you know, because, well, now they're in the past and they're gone, you know, and now I'm moving on. And there's, there's a lot of different things I think. And this is very new to me, like trying to understand meditation and consciousness and something I'm very, very much enjoying learning about, but yeah, still very new to me.

yeah I'm very interested in this I've we were just listening to an interview with David Goggins who I'm a big fan of and just trying to think of like the the power of exercise not just for your physical activity which I think everybody goes to and when individuals are struggling I've known a few people who've struggled with depression and you say exercise to them and like it doesn't resonate it makes it seem like oh you think I should just go for a while like that'll fix it and like I think we forget that exercise can be so beneficial for your mind for those moments where you want to quit and leave. And I think that the gym likely has that problem where you can put down the weights whenever you want, you can get

off the treadmill whenever you want, where when you're on outside on a run or something, it's you're out in the middle of nowhere or you're out on, you can't just quit whenever because maybe you're foreclosed. You got to get back. And so there's a part of that like strengthening your mind that I think you miss out on if you're always in a gym environment. And I'm sure some lifters would say like, you don't know what you're talking about. I push myself all the time and I improve my reps and it's like, fair enough. But for the average person going there for the treadmill or just regular exercise, you don't have that like mental push that you need where you go, I really want to quit. My legs are sore. I'm ready to stop. And then you have to keep going to get back to

where you started from. I think that that strengthens your mind, your willingness to continue. And I think David Goggins is probably just a good person to go to for more about that. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. And I mean, like I said, try a few things you know at least try something whether it's the exercise or writing or reading more or you know a bit change your diet a bit try these things and see which ones you can stick to and or try all of them and maybe a couple of them stick right and then you're better off um you're kind of improving you're being the best version of you that you can be right yeah um i think that's important and and a lot of people again it's hard work and all the noise makes that work even harder because It's, I don't know, it's, it's tough. Everybody's battling out there for sure. And I just, you know, I'm lucky I, again, grew up with that bit of competitive edge, loved sports. So the exercise always came easy to me and, you know, and the spiritual side or the artistic side, you know, has really started flourishing, I would say.

And, you know, since Lily Jean passed away, you know, it's something that I've kind of needed to hold on to and harness and develop within myself. to make sure that I am staying responsible to my family and that I'm taking care of myself. Yeah, that is so valuable. Can you tell people where people can find you online? Yeah. I guess Instagram at Andrew Christopher Music. Again, I'm not on there a ton, but I do post my shows every week. So if you really want to see me, come to one of my shows and talk to me in person, I'd much rather that. You know, Tuesday nights, I'm at the Bown Stern, Wednesday nights at the Jolly Miller, and Thursday nights at the Lakeside Beach Club. So, yeah, happy to see you there.

But, yeah, on Instagram or Facebook, just under Andrew Christopher, and again, sorry if it takes me a little while to get to your friend request or message, but feel free to reach out that way. I do still check the messages there. And otherwise, yeah, the AC show, you know, there's 80 episodes out there. You guys can go back and listen to those. and hopefully some new stuff coming. And then the one I'm doing with Dylan

is called The Between Sets. So it's out on Apple and Spotify and all that too. And the original music under Parliament of Vowels. So you can find that on Spotify again. And that. Yeah, make sure you subscribe. Andrew, I really appreciate you being willing to come on. I loved your message of just saying,

like, I wish I could have just said yes in all caps and just left it to that. I think that there's so much to get out of your story of like, I just can't imagine losing a child and I lost my grandmother this year and there is a space where like young children have been lost and like at Christmas that was just overwhelmed with flowers and I can't even imagine what that experience is like but to continue and to like commit yourself to your family and to your community and to find a way forward and try and find

light through that I just that deserves a lot of respect and a lot of appreciation because because I think that that sets an incomprehensible example for others because we're all dealing with stuff, but that's the biggest one. That's the one that most people can't even imagine. And for you to overcome that and be willing to share that today and to treat your family so well and to take it as a gift, I think there's a lot to learn from that. Yeah, I appreciate those kind of words too. And I'm so happy that you've found this and made it a part of your life. and I really appreciate everything you're doing and all the guests you're interviewing

and getting messages out there that people need to hear and you know in terms of the battle I went through with Lily it is yeah it's devastating like you said everybody's got a story and it's really impossible to weigh those stories against each other

and I think the one thing that everybody hearing this can understand is that you know you're living somebody's dream life you know somebody out there has got it a lot worse than you. And they wish they could be where you are. And I know a lot of people wish they could be where I am, even with my, you know, dark past. So it's, again, you know, staying responsible to the

people around you and being the best version you can be. That's an amazing message to end this. Thank you, Andrew. No problem. Thank you.