Nuanced. - 4. Surviving the Holidays & Navigating Family Conflict | Emotional Intelligence Explained

Episode Date: October 9, 2023

Carolyn Stern provides an essential holiday survival guide, as we delve into family dynamics, boundaries, meaningful gift-giving, and emotional intelligence to help you navigate festive gatherings with enjoyment and less stress. Join us for the fourth instalment of this mini-series.Join host Aaron Pete on the Bigger Than Me Podcast for an enlightening Emotional Intelligence mini-series with renowned expert Carolyn Stern. In this 5-part series, we'll delve into why EQ matters and how it affects you, your family, and your workplace. Get ready to explore the various facets of Emotional Intelligence and enhance your life in meaningful ways!Connect with Carolyn Stern:https://carolynstern.com/Send us a textThe "What's Going On?" PodcastThink casual, relatable discussions like you'd overhear in a barbershop....Listen on: Apple Podcasts   SpotifySupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

Family knows you the best. They know how to push your buttons, and they will do that. And I always say to people know that most likely history will repeat itself. Aunt Agnes is going to say, oh, you know, are you still in that dead-end job? Or, you know, uncle, you know, cousin Rita is going to say, you know, oh, you know, are you still dating that, you know, the deadbeat, right? Like they're going to say, or you look overweight, you know, like all of those questions are going to show up at the dinner. table. relationships we have with our family and trying to be emotionally intelligent with them with the holiday season coming up with more and more family events are on the horizon. I think it's useful to explore how we can be considerate, thoughtful, honest individuals in dynamics that we may not be comfortable with or used to. How do you feel?

Well, I'm excited to dive into this, but this is definitely a hot topic that people don't know how to respond in family situations. What do you see? Do you hear this a lot in your work that these are the environments where you see a lot of the triggers maybe come out? Yeah, absolutely. Family knows you the best. They know how to push your buttons and they will do that. And I always say to people know that most likely history will repeat itself. Aunt Agnes is going to say, oh, you know, are you still in that dead end job or, you know, uncle, you know, cousin Rita is going to say, you know, oh, you know, are you still dating? that, you know, the deadbeat, right? Like, they're going to say, or you look overweight, you know, like, all of those questions are going to show up at the dinner table.

Why? A great question. I think because I always ask people, like, I think that the why question is a great question to ask. And I actually don't like people to use why, because why can really put people on the defensive. So I always say, hey, I'm curious, how come? It means the same thing, not to make you feel very. that about the why. But, you know, like, you know, Toyota, they'd use a five-why technique, right,

asking yourself why five times to get to the root cause of the issue. I think we hurt the ones we love the most a lot of times, which is unfortunate. I think there's a lot of passive-aggressive behaviors that go on in family functions. I think people, there's a lot of history that I don't get to actually tell you what I really think of you. So I'm just going to push it down, push it push it down, push it down. And then at the family function, I can just give you a zinger and see how you react. And I think the bottom line is we just have to start having more honest conversations, scheduling these quality family times that you ask these deeper questions. And I talk about it in the book about, you know, we're a lot like an iceberg, right? What you see is just immediately

what's apparent. You know, you see my communications, you see my actions, but you don't see all the things that color, you know, that impact my behaviors and communications, i.e., my fears, my beliefs, my emotions, my assumptions, my biases, you know, my stressors, my motivators, all of that's underneath the surface. So unless I, you know, and today, you know, throughout the day we've been asking a lot of questions to each other, but I'm just such a curious person because I do want to know the why. Like, why are you the way you are? And, and, and, And to get curious and dig into those, I call them inner iceberg conversation, like, what keeps you up at night? You know, what fulfills you?

You know, what stresses you out? We don't ask those questions. Normally it's just about surface level stuff. And I really think, you know, if we start having those deeper connections, we can build bigger bonds. Do you think it's strange of the human endeavor that we choose to participate in these things? that it is a common trope that family gatherings can be stressful, uncomfortable, some of the comments you alluded to are all there. Yet we continue to attend. We continue to participate. We continue to put ourselves in circumstances where we know that Antagonus is going to make that

common, that these things are going to happen. Zooming out, what do you think of this dynamic that we have with ourselves as a society that we all know what's going to happen? We know it might not be the best time. Yet so often we continue to participate. participate. Well, and this is why I use emotional intelligence as to me the answer is to tell Aunt Agnes, yes, Aunt Agnes, I actually did just break up with my partner, and I'm really sensitive about it, so I'd rather not talk about it. But normally we feel like we need to say something to them to fill in that void. There's nothing wrong with setting a boundary and saying, I'm not prepared to talk about it, or turn it around and, hey, Ann Agnes, what's going on in

your love life, right? To turn it around so that it's not always about you. you, but I think the only thing you can do, your family is going to be your family. They're going to do them. The only thing you can do is how you show up into those situations and you can just say this is what is okay. What is a boundary? A boundary is what is okay and what's not okay. So I just need to let you know what's not okay with me. If you're asking me something on, you know, my relationship that I don't want to talk about, I have the right to say, Aaron, I appreciate your interest and I'm not in a place that I want to talk about it right now. There's something interesting when you said the passive aggressiveness

because I hear that person in the head being like, oh, whoa, I didn't know you were going to react like that or I wouldn't have, oh, I guess it's really, like there's something about poking the bear and then pretending that you didn't know that that was going to happen and playing ignorant about like, oh, wow, you're really sensitive about this and making the person at both ends look like the butt of the joke.

They're now overreacting to you placing that boundary. Do you see that a lot too? Absolutely. And, you know, to me, a great visual of what passive-aggressive is, is this, like this. Right. It's really, like, that's really what I want to tell you. Yeah. But I'm too afraid to say it, so I'm just going to cover it up.

And so I would get into, if I were good to give someone advice, I would say to them, you sound really angry or upset with me. that's the story I'm telling myself by that statement you just gave, what's going on? And then I would shut up and I would just listen because clearly you've done something to that person, whether intentional or not, that has triggered them enough for them to do this to you. But they're just trying to be nice and cover it up. That's one of the things I find so interesting about these events is that you're right. We don't want to dive deeper at dinner.

There's people here. We all just want to get along. And there's this lack of willingness to really dive into what makes you tick, where are you coming from, what's going on in your life. It's a lot of, from my perspective, bragging. Yes, I'm here. I've made it. I've done this. Oh, I haven't seen you in a while.

I'm in this new job. I'm making this, like, I'm doing great. And it's like, it's a lot of comparison and competition almost and not warmth and strength and love. It's a lot of what is this person up to? How are they doing now? are they doing better than me? Are they doing worse than me? It's like, it's not always warm. And I'm just curious, like, why do we stay at the low level when it's supposed to be family? The whole idea of family is that they're deep bonds. Why is it surface level? Yeah. I think it goes back to kind of

what we talked about in a few episodes ago, which is, I think people avoid these difficult conversations for short term, like they don't want to feel the short term uncomfortableness. So, you know, it'll be uncomfortable for me to have that conversation, so they'll deal with long-term dysfunction. And I think we need to, again, it's that quick fix. Why are we trying to make things easy? Why do things need to be easy? I think the best work that I have done is the stuff that was tough and I didn't give up, that I kept at it. And I think that, you know, I'm kind of the black sheep of my family. My family, you know, didn't really talk. a lot about the real issues and I was the one that would always speak up. And maybe that's the

reason why I'm in the field that I'm in. But I feel like people need to say what's going on for them. It doesn't mean that that's real. That's just what is real to me. And so if we can have a conversation that if you see this table as black and I see it as white, then let's just have a conversation about how our perspectives, how we see it and why we see it with the way we see it. But I think everyone just doesn't want the short-term uncomfortableness. And I think that's the big issue. I think that's the issue why people want it easy. That's the issue why we don't want to be triggered. That's the issue why we don't want to talk about emotions because we don't know how and we don't have any confidence to do it. Is family in the blood? No. I think family is all

about shared values. I think families about deeper connections. I think it's a sense of belonging. I absolutely do not believe families in the blood. And a lot of times, in my case, my family has not always been blood. And I think, I think the issue for people is we do feel like a sense of, you know, a sense of obligation that these are, these are the people that are part of my heritage. And there's a balance. You still, you don't have to turn your back on those people. This is who I am and where I came from. And this is, you know, they have helped mold me into the person I am today for good or for bad, whether that's like, hey, I'm not going to be like Uncle Fred. So I'm going to go the absolute opposite way. Or it could be like, hey, I absolutely want to be like Aunt Sandy. And I'm

going to root, you know, and head in that direction. They have molded you and your life experiences do create who you show up as every day. But that doesn't mean you have to turn your back on them. But you can also open yourself to your own traditions as you can come up with your own identity as you evolve as a young person. How do we put together these evenings? Oftentimes with Thanksgiving, Christmas, with these family events, it seems like there's certain standards. You think of turkey. You think of stuffing. But I often try and think about the environment you're trying to create for people. The idea that a house is not necessarily a home, you make it a home through your efforts, through tradition, through these actions, you can start to create a sense

of belonging, a sense of community. What do you see, if we look at the unhealthy dynamics versus the healthy dynamics, how do you see the differences between them? I think just being open and honest about what's really going on for you and having those brave conversations. I think it is going to feel uncomfortable at times, and that's okay. I think conflict can be good. Without conflict, we would have no innovation, right? If we just accepted everything as, okay, this is the way it is, then we're never going to change what could be. So I think it's fine. To me, when I think about hosting a family event, what's the intention? What do I want people to walk away with after they sat at my table, is it that they're going to remember that great stuffing that I made

or is it going to be, you know, what is that saying? People don't remember of what you said or did. It's how you made them feel. I want to know what feel, like, what do I want people to feel like when they think of me? What do I want people to feel like when they leave my party? What, right? I think, and I am just a player in that show. I am not the show, right? It is not a mom. monologue about Carolyn. It is a dialogue. And so we've got to start realizing that, yes, we're only a very small piece in a very bigger picture that we're all sort of a part of. And I think really just setting your intention of what you're hoping to get out of each dinner and then doing, you know, acting the way you would want someone to treat you in that situation, for them to walk away

with how you would want them to feel. I think that's the key. I think of the idea of tradition as a really unique concept because it can connect you from people of the past as well. Like the idea that you have a recipe going back to the 1900s, thinking of your grandmother or great-grandmother who made it for the first time and passed that recipe on, that you can create a lineage and a connection that's far deeper than people realize. And to your point, it's this everything, if it's done intentionally with this idea of how am I leaving people, you want to make sure the chairs are set up correctly, that the cutleries done properly, that the food is fresh, that the music in the background is good

ambience, that there's candles, that there's, everything is kind of mindfully done so that it creates this experience. And then as a host, you want to make sure that people feel comfortable to talk, that feel relaxed and understood. And you can see people disconnect with their traditions when they just serve food and they don't really care how it tastes. Or they ask you 50 different drinks that you want and they kind of just force it on you. I was just over at a friend's house not too long ago. And he just gave me three drinks, one alcoholic, one pop, and one water, and said, choose whichever one you like. He didn't give me the option to say no to a drink because I probably would have just said, no, I'm good, I'm fine.

I'm all good right now. But him not providing that option was like, you're a really good host. I can see that you're going the extra mile because you don't want to hear no. You want to make sure I'm comfortable and that I don't have to ask because the idea of getting a drink and I say I have like orange juice, pop, water, tea, coffee. it's like that's a lot to choose from having somebody go like I'm going to make this easy for you here's a few options I hope one works and if not let me know but kind of creating the opportunity for people to feel relaxed and comfortable in your space is something that takes a lot more work than I think we realize in these events yeah and I think again it goes back to what we talked about in a couple episodes ago which is taking yourself out of the situation thinking how that person would feel yeah if you go to a party and you're asked you know you get an 18 page menu of what You know, you never know what to choose from because there's so many choices. The fact that your friend gave you just three choices and then walked away and gave you space to choose without any pressure, you know, whether you chose something or not, does really show what kind of a host that person was. The other one I want to ask about because it's something I feel like we really misunderstand in our culture right now is gift giving.

It seems like we don't understand how to give gifts anymore. A lot of people go to, well, if you're going to give me a $20 gift and I'm going to give you. you a $20 gift, how about we just skip that and just have dinner and not do anything. But there's something to demonstrating I know you and being emotionally intelligent about your needs, wants, and desires that I can see, hey, maybe you're lacking this in your life or you've said you've had a bad back. So maybe I get you one of those massage guns and that I'm seeing you in a perspective you might not see yourself. It seems like that's the thought that matters and we seem to so often go to money. How much is it going to cost? It's too expensive.

I'll just get them a $20 gift card. It seems like gift cards are such a norm now where we don't actually show the depths of how much we know other people. And I'm just curious from an emotionally intelligent strategic perspective, what do you think of gift given? Well, it's interesting you say that because in my class, every semester at the end of my class, before we went on COVID and went online, I used to give my students a rock. And I would go out in the garden, pick a bunch of rocks, and write little words. on each rock, and then I'd put them in a little cute little baggy and hand it to them. And I thought these kids are going to think that, like, what is this teacher doing? Because back in my day, you know how you have fidget or widget spinners?

You know, that was your gimmick. Back in my day, we had pet rocks. And what was a pet rock? It literally was just that, a rock that was your friend. And I always say, give this rock to my students because I think, okay, you're going to go off and graduate. you're going to, you know, life's scary and sad. And I just remember as a kid, my little pet rock was my friend.

When I was alone and sad, I had something that kept me company. So at the end of the semester, I get all these rocks. I pass them around the classroom. And I, you know, give them and I say, okay, what word did you pick Aaron and each student come? And I think, oh my gosh, these kids, like, when I say kids, they're in their 20s, right? Like, I teach 20-year-olds. I think these kids are not going to like appreciate that because my whole point is leadership's about foundation and rocks are about foundation and I want you to remember the foundation you learned

in this like there's a whole like met like I have lots of meaning behind this little rock years later I'll get messages for my students that say I was at an interview and I brought my pet rock with me and they like literally I have thousands of students out there right now with my little rocks that they're having a bad day. And remember, because it goes back to that gift, I took time. There was a meaning behind my little gift. It costs nothing. I go to the dollar store and buy these little baggies. And I give them to a student. And a lot of times, students think, you're my teacher. Why would you give me a gift? Well, they've given me a gift. They've been in my class. We got to experience something together. So I think with gift gifting, I think that's right. Let's take

away the dollar value of a gift. And yeah, start to pay attention to the nuances of what Aaron does. And yeah, if his back is hurting, what can I do to help him because I care about him, not how much it costs and, you know, that I can show off and, oh, I bought him this fancy gift. I think that's the key that we've got to get back to. So I think if we start to pay attention to not only what's important to me, but also what's important to the other person, then we can be really thoughtful in our gift giving? My next question is, what makes a good family member or a strong familial person? Because you can think of, say, you lose a family member. There's the person who organizes things, who makes sure that things are getting done and that there's a schedule and that

there's a plan for the funeral. There are individuals who just attend the event as a passerby who aren't involved in the planning. During good times, there's a person who helps the bridesmaid, who helps set up the events, who makes things comfortable, who helps recommendations, make recommendations towards things. What do you think it takes to be a good, healthy family member? That's a really good question. And I don't know if I've, in my traditional, like my bloodline, I don't know if I've been a good family member.

I think a family member is someone who puts in the time, pays attention. You know, this is why I say I don't think it's blood. because my family's my business, my clients. I put so much energy and time into my business because I didn't have a really solid family unit at home. And I felt very disconnected. I did feel like the black sheep of the family. Everyone was doing one thing and I was doing another.

So I didn't have a lot of similar shared values. Now, my mother, who is like my best friend who now lives with me, yes, we have such a connection together. But absolutely, you know, was that an easy, you know, I talk about this in the book. It wasn't an easy, you know, we were co-dependent on each other. She did everything for me, which I really appreciate and gave me the life I have today. But it was, I was too emashed. So to me, I really think that if you can, you can still, you can still, you need to put in the effort and the time and care and attention and really the tension.

And I think just like financial investments, family is in an investment. And I honestly, I can say to you, I don't think with my own bloodline, have I been a good family member? With my clients and my staff? Absolutely. And this is why I think you've got to figure out who are your people. It doesn't have to be bloodline. I completely agree. I think of all of these circumstances where individuals are.

trying their best and feel like they're not getting the yields that they want, they're making the dinner, they're putting in the effort to make sure everybody else is taking care of, and then they're left holding the bag and feeling like everybody else had an amazing night. I made dinner, I made sure that the space was comfortable, and then they almost feel forgotten. And I think of individuals who are carrying this burden, and for so long that other people don't recognize the amount of work that goes into making an amazing night, making an experience where there is no stress around food. And when you go on a good vacation,

I think that that's what comes with it. It is like you don't have to stress about the little things. Those things are taken care of. And I think sometimes we're not grateful to the people who put in all of that work. Yeah, that they're behind the scenes. And I think we need to. And again, it goes back. Let's step outside.

Why? Like, let's step outside ourself. Why was that family event so good? Was it the conversation? Was it the great meal? Was it a combination? Like, you talk about experience. It's the whole kit and kabo.

Right? It's all of it. So what, break it down into what made it a good experience. And yeah, then acknowledge those people that do put in, you know, the silent heroes in the background that are, you know, I think of my mother. She's such a great, a great host. She was always the one in the kitchen making a wonderful meal. You know, I remember when I was 12 years old, I can't believe I'm going to say this on air. But my mother brought me in. She's like, come here, Carolyn. I'm going to teach you how to cook. And I said at 12 years old, Mommy, I'm going to have so much money that I'm going to have my parties catered. Fast forward 40 years, I still don't know how to cook. And if I were to host a party, I wouldn't know what I don't have what she had, which is really that, that ability

that to just make a house into a home. I feel like I've got two left feet when I do that. Can I cater a meal? Yeah, but will that create that same experience? So maybe that's the reason, Aaron, you know, as you asked me that question about family, I'm probably a really bad example of what a good family member is. But maybe that's the reason why I'm doing the work I'm doing, because I just wanted such a deep connection with people. And I knew even in my own family unit, I couldn't get it. So I think I'm trying to teach people that whether we're connected by blood or not, I can still find out a lot about you and you can find out a lot of me. we can have intimacy, right, without having a connection in blood. I think that that's also, again, going back to the idea of adversity is like seeing the lack

of allows you to see what you missed out on or what you want. It gives you that perspective because certainly there's people out there who are used to great family dinners where, like, I was over at somebody's house and they have a spice kitchen and their spice kitchen smells like all these different amazing spices. And I have no idea what it would be like to cook with all those. smells and with all those flavors. And so it's interesting to see into their world and go, oh, yeah, we use this every day. And it's like, interesting.

I've never had a spice kitchen. I've never thought about having a spice kitchen. And so it gives you that appreciation of how other people see the world and experience it. But they don't, they can always appreciate what they have because they don't know what it's like not to have it. And so you can start to develop traditions, develop values and say, this is what I see that's valuable, that I admire in other people, that I like to develop more of, or that I'd promote other people do.

When you go over to somebody's house and they make an amazing meal, you're all that more grateful for the amount of work that goes into it because you've recognized what it's like not to have it. But what I hear from you and what I noticed even in you and getting to know you over these last few episodes is that you're really observant. Most people aren't. I think we're just floating around. We're like little hamsters in a wheel.

Do we even pay attention? Think about it when you go to a new city, right? In a new city, you notice everything. Think about what you noticed this morning when you woke up and drove here this morning. Did you even pay attention? I think we forget to stop and smell the roses and look around as to what's going on. Like what I find fascinating about you at such a young age is you're stepping outside yourself going, this is what's going on in the evening and this is all the elements that contributed to this wonderful evening.

People don't even, and then people don't even do one, don't do that. But also what it makes you feel, you're really self-aware. So I think the first step, really, is stepping outside yourself and kind of going, what made that situation, a great situation? What was it about that party that I want to emulate at my party? I think the fact that you, you know, they always say to me, and I think this is a really good point, I had a tough childhood. They always say the most wounded are the best healers.

And I think that's because I understand pain. And I think sometimes it doesn't mean my pain needs to be the same as your pain, but I understand that. And I think because I'm not afraid of the pain, as much as I don't like it, it's uncomfortable, I'm not afraid of it. I can, I can, I can, and I think that's what I thrive on. I want to find people in my life that I can have that connection with. I'm sure you've noticed throughout today, I ask a million, I was voted the most confused

student in high school. Not because I was stupid, because I asked so many questions. I'm just so curious. So if people can step back and kind of start asking themselves questions, asking other people questions, and stop talking so much, right? My mother always told me two ears, one mouth, use them accordingly. I'm horrible at it, but I do try to teach people to practice that. I think the one really valuable piece, there's this quote, Joe Rogan says a lot, which is the worst thing that's ever happened to you is the worst thing that's ever happened to you. And we can often forget that because it's your own personal experience. And so whatever that is, when you think of the worst thing that's ever happened to you, that's subjective to you.

Exactly. You can't look at a World War II veteran or an indigenous person who went to Indian residential school and identify fully with what they went through because whatever your metric is for the worst thing is your own personal experience. And I think when we're talking about this idea of having this human connection, there's such a value in going through where the lack is. because that's where people start to identify. So I think a better question perhaps to you is, when do you know, where is the line that we can subjectively draw for most people where the relationship isn't worth it anymore, where it's dangerous to put yourself in these circumstances where you come out hating yourself, hating the other person, and absolutely miserable.

Where should people start to identify? Like, my emotional health is just going to go through the gutters if I attend this event, if I spend time with this person, they're just going to make everything worse for me. And they're going to take me off my journey. Where is that line? I always say to people, when the plane's going down, what do they say? Save yourself before you save the children. We have to do that.

We have to pay attention to what is emotional well-being. It's happiness. It's being able to enjoy your life, all the many aspects. It's satisfaction. It's contentment. And if right now you're with a family member, whether blood or not, and they are not making you happy and they are affecting your emotional well-being, then you have to put the mask on yourself first rather than saving the children.

You absolutely need to save yourself because you're no good to anyone if you're not here. And so for me, when I hit rock bottom and I knew that, okay, I need an answer here or else I am no longer going to be on this planet, that's when I realized, okay, emotional intelligence is my lifeline and that's what I've, now spent the last 20 years focusing on. Is that a tough decision or a rewarding decision after making it? Both. Right. And again, it goes back to why are we, we got to get comfortable with being uncomfortable

because short-term uncomfortableness is okay and it's way better than long-term dysfunction. Do you think that through these family dynamics when we're talking about Antegness and these individuals, do you think that that's something worth suffering through every, I guess, four times a year? Is that something that we can start to get over? Is that something we can put into a box and endure? Or is that something, if you know what's coming, that you should avoid it? Well, I think the challenge is, I don't think you have to avoid it, but you can prepare for it. I think you can prepare. You know history will repeat itself. And you don't have to turn your back on it, but you have a choice. I can't make you feel anything. That's up to you. You get to side if you

feel. So if I say something to you and it gets under your skin, you're allowing me to do that. You're allowing me to have that power over you. If you know Aunt Agnes is going to get under your skin, prepare on how you're going to show up to that space and be your authentic self. And maybe your authentic self in the past would have just let it happen. But maybe your new authentic self today is going to say, you know what? No matter what they say, I'm not going to let it penetrate. I'm not going to let them control how I feel because I do that all by myself. I love that. And I think that's a perfect way to wrap this up because it's about controlling your inner self. It's about changing yourself from the inside so that you can adapt to sometimes challenging circumstances and not

necessarily avoiding them. Yeah, it's absolutely an inside-out journey. I'm super excited to dive into the next one because we'll be exploring this idea of the workplace and how to relate to your boss and how to look at inflation and all these complex issues as well, which I think are becoming ever more important. Yeah, absolutely. Looking forward to it. Thank you.