Nuanced. - 72. William Johnson: Vancouver Tech Journal, Entrepreneurship & Business

Episode Date: August 29, 2022

Aaron sits down with William Johnson, the creator of Vancouver Tech Journal, to discuss technology, business and leadership. Specifically, the two explore technological innovations taking place in the health and agriculture sector. They also talk William being brought into a family in Canada from an orphanage in Kingston. William is a Vancouver-based writer who’s contributed to local, regional and national publications. He is currently general manager of the Vancouver Tech Journal, which was recently named the top newsletter for technology news in Vancouver by the Georgia Straight. With a focus on business and technology, William’s writing has been featured in outlets including Billboard, BCBusiness, Maclean’s, The Globe & Mail, Daily Hive, BetaKit, Ottawa Magazine, and University Affairs. In addition, William has been a speaker on communications and innovation at events like the #BCTECHSummit, Uniting the Prairies, TechVancouver, Marketing Connect, and BC AMA’s Vision conference.William previously combined his editorial work with full-time in-house jobs, most recently as director of marketing and communications at Innovate BC and head of communications at the Downtown Vancouver Business Improvement Association. He is actively engaged in the B.C. business community, currently serving in volunteer roles with the BrainStation and the Business Council of B.C. William also studied political science at Carleton University and public relations at the University of Toronto. He is active on Twitter @notionport.You’re invited to subscribe at www.vantechjournal.comSend us a textThe "What's Going On?" PodcastThink casual, relatable discussions like you'd overhear in a barbershop....Listen on: Apple Podcasts   SpotifySupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

Tech is, you know, the defining force of history and a specific line is that technology is upstream of culture and upstream of politics. And I was always like, well, what does that really mean? And all he really means by that point is that tech influences culture and media and that influences politics and then that influences the rest of society. But tech is sort of at the top of the stream. Perfect. Thank you so much for being. willing to come on. Oh, that's nice, man.

Yeah, so we're drinking Brothers Bond. Have you heard of Vampire Diaries? Oh, the show. The show. Yeah, I felt like it like rode the wave after Twilight or something like that. Exactly. So the two main characters actually developed this whiskey based on that show. Oh, fantastic.

Yeah. So it just released, I think, a couple of weeks ago. Oh, right on. Yeah. So thank you so much for being willing to come on. I find learning about people's passions so fascinating personally. I find it really rewarding to hear how somebody developed an interest or craft because I think it inspires other people to do the same. And so can you tell people a little bit about yourself and the work you do? Well, first, thanks for having me on. And I love this format because I'm used to doing radio hits and going on the news. And I've always got to talk in sound bites and key messages and talking point. So I love this format because I feel like I can kind of relax and just talk about stuff. Absolutely. So a lot of people know me as, you know, the tech guy, somebody who writes

about technology in Vancouver, but I like to think of myself a bit more perhaps multifaceted. And the way I would say, you know, what I do and who I am is, I'd say for about 15 to 20 years, I've been bringing people together and connecting communities and organizations to things that they care about. And when I look at the last like 20 years, I'd say if I look at my toolkit, the number one tool for that is, you know, writing, storytelling or, or, you know, a pen in the keyboard. And that's how I've sort of done that. And the way that manifests itself today is in my role at the Vancouver Tech Journal. So, you know, day to day, I write and I help publish the Vancouver Tech Journal with a really incredible team of talented, you know, journalists, people in

media, people in design. What do you see in that sort of space that? it stood out to you as something that was worthwhile to kind of pursue because there's so many different avenues people seem to choose for journalism and it seems like you have a real passion not just for the journalistic endeavor but for sharing important news about kind of how are society developing in terms of the technology we use, how we're connecting and how we're sort of innovating our way out of problems. For sure. So there's so many ways to tackle this question and I think you'll be fine if I go in depth on stuff. Absolutely. Please feel free. So, you know, why technology? There's a few reasons. I used to work for the BC government at an organization called Innovate BC. And I had a CEO there

named Shirley Vickers. And she'd always say tech is everywhere, right? And all she really meant was that tech is sort of, you know, found its way into every part of society in life, right? So whether you run a retail store and you've got your system for, you know, doing commerce and transactions, or you work on a hospital and you know you're being you know scanned by a radiology machine right tech is everywhere it's in you know in agriculture it's in space it's everywhere um and that's how i thought about tech for a long long time it was just an interesting thing that was you know impacting life and then there's a few different ways that i've heard about tech talked about recently that really resonated with me and there's uh an investor and i hope you don't mind i'm going to always

i always mention names with people when i'm talking about ideas that like i didn't come up with because I want to give credit. There's an investor named Balaji Shrini Vasa, and he's well known in the global tech space if you're really into that space. And he always says that tech is, you know, the defining force of history. And his specific line is that technology is upstream of culture

and upstream of politics. And I was always like, well, what does that really mean? And all he really means by that point is that tech influences culture and media and that influences politics. And then that influences the rest of society. But tech is sort of at the top of the stream. And so that's another reason why I think tech is an incredibly important topic to sort of dig into and discuss. Another thing I want to comment on tech is that, again, people always see me as like the tech writer guy.

And I love technology, but equally as much as technology, I just love the people behind technology. That's what I find really, really fascinating. And a really good example of that I always bring up is if you look at someone like well-known people like Steve Jobs, you know, Apple, the iPhone, and sure, Steve Jobs helped create, you know, one of the most important consumer products in history in the iPhone. The other question surrounding Apple and iPhones and stuff is that, like, Steve Jobs is the son of a Syrian immigrant, right? And so why did this person think he had any business revolutionizing the computing

industry, you know, which is what he did? So just as important as the technology and the products and the hardware and all that really interesting stuff, the people and the stories, you know, behind them, I think. those are just as exciting. And I think that's, you know, why me and my team really get excited about what we do every day. I couldn't agree more. I think we often underestimate the work that goes into developing an idea. Like, you may not agree philosophically with Elon Musk, but you have to be a very uncommon person to do what he's done, to do what Steve Jobs is done. And we sort of, like, I see a lot of hit pieces on people like Steve Jobs of like, oh, well, he wasn't a nice guy. And it's like, you have to be

obsessed with something in order to bring something like Apple to life. It can't be, I've got a balanced lifestyle. I'm doing a little bit of this. I'm going for walks. I'm just enjoying my day. You have to be a very uncommon person to revolutionize something like the phone. And now it's all commonplace. We expect our iPhone to work. We're always waiting for the new one. But it took someone really thinking outside the box. I think their slogan was like, think different. It takes all of that to come together and that working mentality often it comes from unfortunately other countries of people who really know what it's like to struggle to not have resources and to say hey this is and that's why I think that American dream is so well known to people is because

that's the space where you go and you let your ideas speak for themselves and that's what you're more judged on hopefully in terms of like what you bring to market yeah yeah I couldn't agree more with you, right? And so, yeah, look at Steve Jobs. Again, Syrian immigrant, Steve Jobs was then put up for adoption, then he was adopted similar to Jeff Bezos. I don't know if a lot people know, right? Like, his mother married a guy named Mike Bezos, but his name's actually Miguel Bezos, a Cuban immigrant, right? If you look at many of the CEOs of the most valuable technology companies in the world, Microsoft, for example, you've got Satya and Adela, you know, Indian immigrant, you've got Sondar Pichide, CEO of Alphabet, you know, Google, aka Google,

you know, another Indian immigrant. Actually, I think a significant portion of, you know, the most viable tech companies in the world, they're based in the United States, but the majority of their CEOs are actually immigrants. And there is something just about kind of like what you said, like the work rate of people who've moved to a new country and the willingness also to like take risks and not being part of their mentality and, you know, their psyche. Yeah. What do you see in that?

the inspirational story you enjoy writing about? And how did you kind of get started in writing on these topics? Again, I'm just fascinated by people, generally. I'm just a very curious person. And I think that, I don't know, I think I read something maybe 15 years ago, which essentially said everyone else around you is an important person because they know stuff that you don't know. And so you can learn from everyone. It doesn't matter where they are, walks to life, how much experience they have. And so I'm just generally really fascinated by people. And the reason why I guess I started running the technology, it takes me back to Ottawa. So I've lived in Vancouver, B.C. since 2015, but I grew up outside of Ottawa in a little town called Winchester. But when I was

in Ottawa and I was, you know, midway through my university years, I was just going to different networking events and meetups. They were called tweetups. This is back when Twitter was very new and you'd meet someone on Twitter because you had similar interests and then you'd meet them at a pub and you know that's sort of how communities were built at least tweetups. But a lot of the people I kept bumping into just were entrepreneurs. They were entrepreneurs and they were focused on different tech startups and whatnot and sort of by chance those were the people that I ended up spending a lot of time with and I just got I think deeper and deeper into that space and I want to kind of tie it back to the fact that a lot of these people are building the tools that

we're using in our lives, whether it's to connect like this, right, or to connect with loved ones or to do our work or to explore other interests. Yeah. So the interesting thing about technology is that it immediately can scale in a way that so many things, if you've got like a nice shirt, it's going to be tough to get that to a global market that's going to be interested. But with a new app, a new design, it can reach people really quickly and have a really quick impact. So you almost need people like yourself who are well-versed in the area to see that change because things like, and I'll be interested to get your thoughts on, like Substack, kind of are changing journalism.

A lot of complaints. Journalism isn't the way we want it to be. Journalism isn't the way we want it to be. We hear that for 10 years. Then you have like an app like Substack that kind of changes the dynamics between people and allows people to kind of connect and have their own voice shared rather than going through a lot of different editing processes or being forced to focus on a topic they don't care about. Well, it's interesting that you bring up a tool like substack.

I find it so fascinating, right? It allows anyone to build up a newsletter and an audience and then very specifically it enables them to monetize that audience through different tools, right, to add paywalls and to create membership programs and whatnot. And that's really fascinating because whenever I, again, this is like 10 years ago. I'm not that old, but I feel like this was really long time ago. There's a book, it's called The Long Tail, and it's a guy named Chris Anderson, I believe, and he used to be the editor of Wired Magazine. And in this book, again, it's like over a decade ago, he's talking about three things and sort of how, like, creators and content has changed.

I feel like everyone's having these same conversations now, but these were actually a long time ago. And the first big change he said in terms of, like, commerce and creators and media was the democratization of production. And so what he meant by that was that, like, originally, there was, like, a few different news stations, and they were the ones who could share the news and create, and there was, and that was it, right? And then eventually, like, different tools were built so that anyone could kind of, like, share the news or create or take photos or take video. But even if you could do that, you still have the issue of distribution, right? Like, you could make a video, but then who was going to see it, right? And then we get, like, social media tools, which allowed people to connect easier and better based off of their interests, right?

So that was sort of a democratization of distribution. And then what happens when you get both of those things, anyone can create and anyone can share is that you get this proliferation of people sharing their stories and connecting based on their interests. So once you have that then it's like, well, how do I find the things that interest me and how do I like find those people that I can connect with? And then obviously there have been more tools, whether it's like Google obviously, right, or Twitter and different algorithms that bring people together around topics that they really care about. And so I think we've actually seen this, sort of that cycle of more people creating, more people sharing, more people connecting around interests happen a few different times. So, and we've seen that with, again, social media. We've seen that with newsletters, newsletters went away, now they're back, podcasting. It's funny, we're on a podcast now.

I remember, like, 15 years ago when podcasting was the thing. But it was almost, I was ahead of its time. But now it's sort of seeing a resurgence. So we're seeing that happen again. And I find all these different things really fascinating. The Vancouver Tech Journal today is built on Substack, and it wasn't like a very, like, business decision for it to be on Substack. It was me writing for fun when I initially created the Vancouver Tech Journal.

I'm sure we'll get into that sometime. And Subtack's big value proposition was that, yeah, you could have your free newsletter, and then essentially with the click of a button, you could start to monetize that newsletter. And is an individual writer back then, I thought, oh, well, that would be really interesting. I'm just going to use this platform, right? In substack, I think it's just short for subscription stack or something like that, right? Sort of like your tech stack. You get your newsletter, you can create, you can edit, you can flip a switch,

and then you can start charging people and add commerce to the mix. Yeah, I find substack really interesting because it's doing something different specifically with its algorithms. I don't know if you heard the interview with Chris Best, I think, is the CEO with Joe Rogan, where they were talking about the development of how they're trying to do recommendations instead of having the traditional Google, YouTube, where they kind of guide you and their algorithms tell you what you want to see rather than the writer in this case telling you what you recommend.

Did you see that? Does that interest you? And have you become more interested in substack over time? Yeah, I'm, again, I'm a big substack fan just because I think it's just really empowering for writers. I did see that interview with Joe Rogan, and it's funny. Like, I'm a big fan of Substack, but as a Substack user and actually customer, I'm also the biggest critic of Substack because I always want them building new things and new tools that we want. I want them to work better, right?

So I'm actually, like, pretty frequently tweeting at Chris and his other co-founder, Hamish, telling them specific feedback I want about, like, how I think they can improve the platform for writers and creators and make it more effective. To your question about the recommendations, I think that's really neat actually, right? So since I'm sort of the admin on the Vancouver Tech Journal substack, I get emails with it saying so-and-so has added the Vancouver Tech Journal into the recommendations list, right? And so obviously we've got our subscribers and our posts get likes, but whenever other people are willing to put us up as a publication that they read and they recommend to their followers, I find that, well, awesome, I guess. Yeah, absolutely.

And I think it's a new way of going about it because then you're trusting the person. And I think that that is a shift that we're going through where you can't just have anyone telling you your news anymore. Because there's this sort of sense of distrust or miscommunication between the audience that I think there's a huge benefit of knowing who the author is, having a relationship of knowing their writing style and understanding them as a person a little bit more. I think there's dangers to it, which I talk to Farhan. about which is like now you have audience capture now your audience expects you to say something about an issue or have a position and be consistent and the idea that you're going to go you know I really thought this for a long time and now I actually think this it's like you can lose that audience or anger them and create a disconnect so I think there's risks but I like how substack is

really encouraging the writer to be the source of information but also they have a responsibility to their audience. And Substack doesn't really take that responsibility on, which I think is really unique to them. Yeah, and it differs significantly from other platforms like YouTube. I'm sure you've had conversations with people. Actually, you might have talked to Farhad about this or maybe Grace in the Overstory family, where if you watch like two videos on YouTube, all of a sudden and YouTube thinks that you're only interested in this one topic and all your recommendations are this specific topic and it's the algorithm going into overdrive. And that always drives me totally not right and so you actually don't get that at all with substack in terms of what

you're discovering and what you're you're looking at and interested in yeah i'm curious just on your thoughts on what can be improved because i've written to substack as well saying how am i supposed to get the word out on instagram is a growing platform so is ticot but um with spotify you can take the what you can copy to instagram and have it as a story and have the image of the person um and the the title and you can't do that with a substack article it's not easy. I see people kind of take a screenshot and post. It doesn't look aesthetically pleasing. Some of those photos that you choose for your substack article, you can't put on Instagram in the same way the way you can with a Twitter post and stuff. So that's been one of my kind of consistent

like, hey, how am I supposed to get the word out on Instagram where that's an easy audience to kind of grow and develop? Yeah, that's so interesting. I'm glad to hear that you've been reaching out to them with ideas because I do constantly. I guess that's a really good point. I don't actually how we think about that. I'm really fortunate. Like I said, the Vancouver Tech Journal is not me. It's a group of people. And so there are other people I'm really lucky that get to think about that and I don't have to think about that. But it is something that needs to be improved. I'm a big fan of posting tweets to Instagram stories. I don't know why. I think it gives a new life. So I like that as like a tactic or a feature that's possible. And I do think that

a lot of people might like me anyway like i spent a lot of time on these different platforms and i actually don't mind people from one world connecting with me in like my other world my instagram world i know a lot of writers and creatives are different like that they try and separate make perhaps platforms and stuff but i like i like matching them all together i like to be connected to professional people and personal people on all those platforms right how do you feel about them adding podcasts because they've moved in that direction now as well do you think that's an improvement do you think they could do it differently. What are your thoughts on the directions they're taking things? Are you talking about Twitter? No. Subsack. Subsack. Yeah. So it's funny. I have tested one sort of podcast feature out and so

hope your listeners aren't bored about all this like technical stuff. But the interesting thing is I held a conversation on Twitter with a local executive and then I downloaded the audio off of Twitter spaces and then I re-uploaded that audio to our substack channel. And And I liked it. I like the fact that you can embed audio into the stories and that sort of thing. And something that we've actually been experimenting with at the Vancouver Tech Journal is having our writers read their stories. So you can land on a story and then like by James Matthews, one of our writers.

And then you actually hear him tell the story and his voice and it's fantastic. It's a huge step up in audiobooks when you actually have the author tell the story. I know some people choose to hire out like a role for that. but it's so meaningful to hear the person who wrote the story, who wrote the book, actually hear their voice and their feelings behind it kind of as part of the experience. Well, and I love that. And it messes me up, though, whenever I've listened to an audio version of a book, and then I listen to the next one from the same author,

and they've used two different voices. So that always messes me up. Absolutely. So can you tell us how you got started with the Vancouver Tech Journal? You've kind of alluded to dipping your toe in and kind of getting that experience. But what made you think that this was necessary? Because it's focused. It's Vancouver Tech Journal, not BC Tech Journal, Canada Tech Journal, North America Tech Journal.

How did this sort of come about for you? First of all, I'll say it's not all those other things yet, but it could be those things in the future. But so how do I go through this really quickly? No rush. Yeah, you're right. No rush. I don't need to go through quickly. So like I said, I was in Ottawa.

I moved here. And actually, I'll tell a story, which is like. Like, this is, there's a woman named Cheryl Draper who really should take credit for the founding of the Vancouver Tech Journal. She doesn't know this, but I'm going to say that on here. I was moving from Ottawa to Vancouver. And there's a woman named Cheryl Draper that I knew in Ottawa. And she had already moved to Vancouver. And she worked for a company called Invoke.

And Invoke is known for spinning out Hoot Suite, which a lot of people know, among other big local tech companies. And so when I was moving here, I emailed Cheryl. I said, hey, I'm moving to Vancouver on April 30th, 2015. It would be good if you could connect me to your local networks, and she knew a lot of people already. And so she connected me to a woman named Lindsay Chan, still very well known here in the community. And Lindsay worked at an organization called BC Innovation Council. It's a crown agency of the province.

And Lindsay said, hey, well, come in for an interview. And so I went in to get interviewed or to meet Lindsay. And I got there and she goes, as you can see, I'm pregnant. And so she was like a week away from going on Matlib. And so there's another woman there, Karen Spears, another person that deserves a lot of credit for what I've been able to do here in the province. And so they both interviewed me. And then Lindsay said, all right, I'm going on MatLeave now, so you're going to have to

just talk to Karen about potential job opportunities. So long story short, Karen eventually hires me as a communication specialist. And this is, again, at BCIC. And I worked really hard. I used to say, oh, I was really lucky and I got promoted. I worked very, very hard and was promoted a few times, left BCIC in April 2017. So I was there for a couple years to go work for another organization called the Downtown Vancouver BIA, great organization.

You should have their CEO on. And then I was recruited back to BCIC to be the director of marketing incomes, which is, again, really exciting, great opportunity. So the ironic thing about all that was that I initially got. into communications because I liked writing and storytelling. But when I was promoted, I was no longer doing those things really. I had a team of people that was doing those things. And I was like putting at fires and signing expense reports and stuff like that. So I was no longer doing the stuff that I love to do, the actual writing of stories and newsletters and that

sort of stuff. So funny enough, I was at InterimAPTC a couple more years. And then early 2018, this is while I was still there as a director. I thought, well, you know, I've got a bit more bandwidth and I know all these stories and I've got all these relationships with people in the tech and innovation space. You know, what could I do to just like exercise my like creative muscles, that sort of thing? And so I thought like, well, maybe I'll just start this newsletter that I think would be cool. It'd be something that I would want to read. So we'll see if some other people want to read it. So I started the tech journal, yeah, early 2018 or maybe December 2017. It was right around that time. And I initially sent it off to five people. A couple of them I said,

hey, I'm going to start this newsletter. Do you want to subscribe? And then a few other people I just added them and close enough that I could just add their emails and say, hey, I'm running this newsletter. And it really just started out as me sending an email. I would find like six to seven or seven to ten links that other stories that other people wrote. And I'd say, here's a summary. Here's why this is important. This is why you need to know this. And that's all it started out is. And I would send that every couple of weeks. And it slowly got a larger audience, just organically, just people talking and being like, oh, this is really cool.

And I was at a lot of events talking to people. And I'd tell them about it. And I'd say, hey, I'm going to add you to my newsletter. And people would say, sure. And then once they had it, they thought, like, oh, like, this is valuable. Like, I'd like to have this in my life. It wasn't too, like, an intrusive. It was only every couple of weeks.

So fast forward to... April 2020, May 2020. So this is, ah, COVID's hit by now. Again, still working for the government, still a director. I have a team of five people, and I still have the itch to be doing more writing and storytelling. And I got an opportunity to do ghost writing for tech executives, which was really, really special. What is that? So essentially, taking the ideas and stories of people.

and then writing on their behalf, but it still goes under their name. So I would talk to a local CEO for an hour about his thoughts on, like, you know, hiring in a recession or managing culture in a recession, and then I'd write an opinion piece on that, and then me and the team at this consultancy would get it published in Forbes under their name, right? It was their ideas, but they didn't write it. They don't have time to write it, and maybe they're not good writers, but they do have really thoughtful ideas. They just need someone else to put those into writing.

And so I left the government to do that as a consultant, as well as to put more time into the Vancouver Tech Journal, which again had like a growing audience still. And the interesting thing was is a lot of people who knew me as the writer of the Tech Journal would approach me and say, hey, like, you're obviously a writer. Can we hire you to do some writing for us on the side? And I'd say, yeah, sure. So I was with the government, left the government, like secure job, pension, et cetera, all that stuff. And I thought like, no, I'm just going to like register a small business. and do writing and consulting. And it was a great decision because a few months in that,

someone that I had known for a number of years through my freelance writing was Farhand Muhammad. And so Farhand messages me one day. It's funny. I probably have the Instagram message or the text. And it's just him saying, hey, like, what are you working on? I want to talk to you about a business thing. And I thought, okay, that sounds really interesting.

Like, sure, let's jump on a Zoom call. And so he said, hey, what are you working on? I was telling him all I'm a new consultant. is ghostwriting, writing the Tech Journal, like still. And he said, let's, let me tell you what I'm working on. And this is before Overstory. I don't even think Overstory had a name or a brand then. But it was an entity, but it didn't have a name and a brand yet.

And so he told me what they were working on. And he said, I really think with the right support and resources, you could take what you're doing, the Vancouver Tech Journal and really blow it up. And I thought, that sounds like a great idea because this is something that, again, I was passionate about, something that I would do for, free and so again as a writer and a creative when someone says hey we love what you're doing do you want to make it your job like that's literally i think the definition probably a you know your dream job right where you're doing something because you're just super passionate about it and

then you get to take it and turn it into a business yeah what did that mean to you to have someone believe in what you were doing like maybe you have people who come along who go oh you're doing great work all that's nice and um yeah i don't i don't mind that but it's like it's uh it's a different thing when somebody's like, no, we're going to, we're going to financially back you. We're going to push this forward. We see the same vision you have long term and we want to help you get there. Like, that's a different type of confidence, of trust, of support than the everyday person who might just hit that like button. Yeah, I mean, that is, I think for creators or anyone building a business, like that is what you want. You want someone to say more than, oh,

that's cool and that's nice. Someone to say, actually, here is a check. We would like to pay you for the value that you're creating. I think that is the ultimate compliment. So that was really special. The funny thing is, it's not the first time that Farhand did that. And I'll just tell a really quick story. Again, I was freelance writing this whole time while I was at BCIC because it was just something I really enjoyed. So I'd like write articles for BC business. Like many years ago, I wrote a couple articles from McLean. And Farhand, before he was CEO, of Overstory Media Group, he was the editor-in-chief at Daily Hive. And it's funny, this goes back to the whole Substack thing.

So I was on Substack, writing the Vancouver Tech Channel for fun. And one day I decided, you know what, like, I should test out this like paywall feature or monetization feature, just to see if anyone, like, will come on board with that. And so I sent an email to my list saying, hey, I'm going to test out, like, having a paywall. You all currently get this email from me on Sundays. I'm going to write an extra email on Monday and Tuesday and Friday. You know, if you would like that, you're going to have to pay. Let me know if you want to trial this like paid level.

It's going to be so much more work for me, but I was like, let's just try it because maybe I'll like create a job out of that. And the final thing was is the first article I published out of like new paywalled version was on large tech companies in Vancouver that everyone should be talking about. A lot of articles are written about Microsoft and Amazon, but there's like, Samsung and Motorola and Disney and all these huge companies have offices and office presence here. And a lot of people didn't know. So I wrote an article on that. And funny enough, the first person that responded to that email was Farhan. And he was like, hold on a second, dude. You should

just let Daily Hive publish your work. We'll pay you to publish it and you'll get like our millions of views. Like we have a huge audience. So he's like, forget about this like pay while you're going to do. Let us give you the reach and we'll pay you for these stories. And so it was funny that, like, within a day of me starting this new, like, monetization strategy, I ended up getting money, but it was from a different source than I thought, right? I was like, oh, I'll see if the readers will give me money. But then Farhand at Daily Hive was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. We're going to pay you a daily Hive to produce these for a much bigger audience. And also, that was, like, another opportunity that seemed like too good to give up.

Yeah. Can you tell us your thoughts? You watch over. You see CEOs. you see the work that they go through, the development of an individual trying to lead a company in some sort of direction. What are your thoughts on Farhan?

Farhan is fantastic. And so you're right. I talk to a lot of CEOs, sometimes just for articles, but then a lot of the time, just because I'm curious, like, their thoughts and ideas about work and their workforce. And the other thing I do a lot is,

like I read articles about other CEOs, right? And a lot of books. And I've read every Steve Jobs. books. You know what I mean? I've read Elon's biography, like those types of things, right? So I think a lot about CEOs and leadership and business and all of those things. Farhan is incredible because he absolutely is the type of person that, like, has a vision. And to most people, it seems like, well, that's unrealistic. But then he will prove to you that it's possible and that he'll surprise you and that he'll get you to do something that you, like, didn't think was realistic. Like,

even when the Vancouver Tech Journal was initially coming up with like ad rates for like what we would charge people for partners like some of the numbers he was throwing out I thought were totally nuts like I was like I'd probably ask for a little bit less but that would have been a mistake because like almost like all of our ad inventory is full almost now so he was right in terms of you know guessing not guessing but assuming like well what you're doing is very valuable and there's people who are going to pay for that value right and so I would say time and time and time again, he's someone that, like, has a vision, and it might seem unrealistic to some people around him, but he manages to make that vision of reality. And, I mean, I think that's sort of common for a lot of these people we talked about. Some of these CEOs, like, everyone said Steve Jobs had this reality distortion field, right? He basically, like, yeah, a staff member would say, that's not possible. And he'd be like, yeah, that's possible. Like, you know, very casually, he'd think, like, yeah, yeah, we can do that, right? Like, a lot of people forget that for the first iPhone, Apple basically forced one of their manufacturers to invent a type of

glass and produce enough of it for the initial iPhone because at first it was going to be plastic. And the Steve Jobs was like, no, no, no, no, that's not good enough quality. And they worked with a partner. And the partner was like, well, we have this new glass, but there's no way we could produce enough of it for these devices. And he was like, yeah, you're definitely going to do it. He just somehow willed it to reality. Obviously, it's not him. But obviously, what these people have in common is they have, like, the vision and the persuasion and, you know, they can motivate people.

And I see a lot of that in farhand. And what I think about like CEOs and leadership, again, this thing I think about a lot, there is a famous book called High Output Management. And it is by a guy named Andy Grove. And he was famous because he was the, I think he was the third CEO of Intel, big chip maker. and it goes there in that book it talks about like what executives are for like what are they actually supposed to do right and he I'm paraphrasing and it's probably not completely correct what he says but it really comes down to like you know vision and purpose um tie breaking decisions so like if two junior people are like well I think we should do this and I think we

should this if they can't decide amongst themselves the path forward an executive could be the one to say like this is what we're doing but then And then the most important thing is actually enforcing culture and values. Like that's where we really need leaders to come in to say, like, on a daily basis, this is the standard. This is the quality of work that we're going to do. And again, that's another area where I think Farhan is always pushing people to say, like, number one thing is quality of work. Like the quality of the stories that we're telling is what we need to focus on above everything else.

And then all the other stuff will take care of itself. Yeah, which is something that people can underestimate a lot, which is the idea that the values section or the mission section of a website matters, that it's not just lip service, because a lot of people get cynical and they go, oh, yeah, like integrity and kindness and teamwork. It's like these are just lip service things. But when somebody really brings it to life and says, this is our top priority and everything else who creates like a hierarchy of priorities and helps other people go, okay, I'm going to focus on this, dedicate myself. to this, it creates that culture, that it allows people to know what is going to be valued. Where sometimes maybe in university, you get ranked on something and you get like a B for this and a C, and it's like, what did the professor want the most out of this paper? Did they want a clear thesis? Did they want really well researched paper? What did they want out of it? Did they want a strong conclusion where you make a definitive position on something? We often say like, what all matters? And then that kind of grays the area of what matters, the most.

most, but what are your thoughts on where they're going to take this? Because to me, I watched a really interesting documentary on like the news industry with Hassan Minhaj about like how the news industry is dying and how companies or hedge funds are buying these companies, squeezing them for everything they have and then kind of just letting them die out. And then I was like, this is a real problem. Like how are we going to fix this problem? And then my partner showed me an article by the Fraser Valley Current. And I was like, what is this company? It's so long, like there's so much information. There's actual research in this.

And so I looked at it and I was like, oh, this is over story media. And ever since, I've been a huge kind of proponent of them because I don't see how anyone else can compete with what they're trying to do. I think the other news organizations are important. And I have the, I think it's black press. Apparently they think that I really like dislike them or have like low opinions. And it's like, I just think they've figured out a way to do something different that's important. that for me who actually cares and reads an article and goes, oh, no, this is a genuine problem, how are we going to address this?

I want solutions or I want enough information where I can go, okay, I understand the issue now. I don't feel like this was just three sentences of information on what's going on. I really understand what the problem is. So what are your thoughts on where they're taking things? Do you believe in the mission of, I would argue, saving journalism. I don't know if they say that often, but I feel like that's the route they're taking. I mean, again, it sounds like, well, you can't say that you're saving journalism. That sounds crazy.

But again, it's one of those things where, I mean, I'm surprised every day, like, at work. What I will say is any community that we've gotten involved in and talked to, they just say that they're just dying for what we're doing, right? Overstory as a whole. And then also even just when you focus on the tech journals and telling stories about, like, really local entrepreneurs. that, you know, haven't raised $100 million, but, like, got their first customer. Like, I've spoken at various tech conferences in Canada and, like, Saskatoon in other places. And they think, I tell them about the Vancouver Tech Journal. And they say, oh, my goodness, like, there's no one here doing that, which I find really wild.

It's like, well, why doesn't somebody just do this? You know what I mean? And Overstory is investing and growing with the mission to do what we're doing here in VC across the country. So in terms of, like, my outlook on Overstory. I just, I can't believe that no one else is already doing what we're doing because it's so desperately needed. And I hear that again and again from people I talk to. Like, I'm going to Kelowna next month.

And Summit is literally organizing like a lunch for me so I can talk to local tech and innovation stakeholders because they're like, there's no one here telling these like local stories. And I just think like, well, why isn't someone else already done this? And so when I think about overstory and what we're doing, it is, I find it just like very encouraging that anyone we talk to you about what we're doing, people are very, very excited about it. Yeah, it also seems like you're more literate on the topic. If you were to send me in with, and that's why I wanted to sit down with you,

is because there's a lot about the space I don't know. I didn't know Disney had a location here in BC. Makes sense, but it's not something that's well known. And so you have a knowledge and expertise where I think that's really important. when I'm having a guest on is to understand their background or have a have a comprehension so I know where I'd take the conversation and if you're just having a regular reporter do everything in your community you're not going to have that expertise they're going to be like the who what where when and why but maybe not the the deeper understanding

of where you add in the development stage of your business where where are you taking off who your customer base like that kind of entrepreneurial business lens of how do you fit in with this, this tech and innovative side. You are able to bring that focus and know how they fit in with other businesses, maybe somebody is doing something similar over here. You're going to have that inside knowledge where general people aren't going to have that kind of wealth of experience. So what has that sort of been like to bring that to entrepreneurs and be able to share their story thoughtfully where they feel like that this was worth their time? Because I've heard people, particularly rappers, say like, this person has never heard me sing. They don't know

what my story is. They don't know why I do this. They don't know how I got here. And yet they're writing an article saying my music sucks. And like, how can you trust that? And there's a, there's a deep sense of like, this is silliness. And so you are able to bring that knowledge and maybe help them answer questions of like, well, we're at this stage and we want to get over here and you're able to say, well, you know who you might need to talk to. You may need to talk to this person or that person and share like an experience with another person. So what has that been like? It's a really good point. It's like the tech journals are like an organization of beat reporters almost, right?

Because we're all like deep into the technology community. And you're right, I can talk to an entrepreneur and interview them. And at the same time, I can turn the recorder off and say, you know what, like this issue that you're having, you should probably go talk to this person in the community. So I can, I can help them and kind of goes back to what I said about connecting the dots or, you know, connecting people to what like they need to know or what they care about. But Vancouver is so interesting too, right? Vancouver is interesting that it is a thriving tech and innovation space. And at the same time, it is full of different siloed, you know, like organizations as well. So that's been really, really interesting.

And so I spent a lot of my days and so do our writers, like talking to you as many people as possible. So we can, yeah, really understand, like, the context within which, you know, a early stage founder is building his company or, you know, a billion-dollar unicorn CEO is building his company, very different experiences. But the other thing is it's not just businesses, it's we've got these incredible institutions, these research institutions in Vancouver, B.C. And a lot of people sort of underestimate how much amazing innovation comes out of these institutions.

Like, that's where a lot of our startups are founded, especially when it comes to, like, Health tech and biotech and agri-tech. Like a lot of those businesses come out of these research institutions. Like, yeah, like University, Treasury Valley, right? UBC. So that's been really incredible. And so, like, for us, again, it really comes back to, you could call us like a news organization.

At the same time, I think when I talk to people, I say, you know, we're really, it's like a community. And the ways that we bring that community together are through, you know, news and features and stories and insights and data and events and activities. We do all of those as part of how we bring the community together. And Kate, our managing editor, she joined us in May 2nd. It's funny.

She did an interview, actually had a conference in Toronto finding out if she was on a podcast. And she said one of the biggest things I've learned about working at the tech journal is that, you know, I always thought we were a news organization. But in fact, we're like our biggest value proposition is that we're a community organization. Yeah. I think that that's Farhan actually mentioned that as well. And I think it stands out because we just get so used to saying we want the news. But what we really want is a sense of community, a sense of being able to talk to people and have a deeper understanding on an issue and not just have a one-way conversation telling people how it is, what it is, and how to think about things. It's more of a dialogue. And so when you're able to meet with someone in those early stages, is it meaningful to? to be able to know that they could be going somewhere that nobody else knows about. You get to kind of get the inside scoop on ideas

that are maybe 10 years down the line that other people, it's not even on their radar because, again, I think of podcasts. So many people sort of rolled their eyes at them in the beginning phases, and now everyone I know when they know I have a podcast, they're like, I'm going to start a podcast. And it's like, it's so cliche now

that everybody has a podcast. Yet at a certain point, it was not that popular. Twitter for a long time it was like early adopters kind of got this huge benefit of using the platform and then now it's become maybe less of what it was

when those early adopters were really willing to test it out and try different things on it it kind of gets typecast as something same with Instagram maybe it's innovative in the early stages and then it becomes not what it was

and so you get the kind of inside scoop before it loses that kind of flare so what is that like? I love it. I love it. Like I said, we hear from so many different people in the community that are building different businesses. And not only do we get to sort of, we get the inside scoop on a lot of these early stage companies. I always find it really interesting to talk to entrepreneurs about why they are seeking media coverage. And no, it's funny. It's funny that a lot of them haven't even thought of that. They just think this is what they're supposed to be doing. They're their emailing us about their startup and this product that they built. And then whenever I'm on. I call with a lot of them. I'll say, so why are you talking to me? Right. What's going on here? And it's because they're really passionate about something and they want to share what they're building with the world. And again, like a big, like global mail is not going to cover, right? But

I always like to ask them, you know, why they're telling their story. And it usually is because they're just really passionate about whatever it is that they're building. And it's things that again, like right now you might think, oh, that's kind of interesting. Like, will that be a thing in the future? Maybe it will be. But then I bet you 10 years from now, It's going to be a really big deal on something that everyone's talking about. And I think there are many examples of that. Again, when we look at all these different verticals that I mentioned, like agri-tech and health tech and blockchain, right? There's so many companies that I've talked to that I think, like, that's a really interesting use case for that piece of technology.

I'm really excited to see where that is in seven to eight years, right? Because that could be, it could be gone also, like a lot of startup sale, but it also could be something that changes how we live. And so it's for someone like me, that's to talk to so many entrepreneurs a day, in a way, not literally, but a way it is it, it's a peek into the future. Absolutely. One of the ones that stood out to me in a recent interview you did was financial sector. And you talked about Wealth Simple. What do you see in Wealth Simple that other people might miss?

Because I think that that is an industry that maybe hasn't hit mainstream yet. I don't know if that's still a word we use, but it's something that slowly people are getting on board with. Their marketing is off the charts. Like, Well, Simple, they were on YouTube for a while doing like little short clips. I thought it was incredible to see how they were marketing to people and how they were showing their kind of differentiation between them and big banks. But you talked about them, and what do you see that they're doing?

Because you said they're Canadian-based, I think, right? Yeah, well, well, suppose, they're based in Toronto. But they're, yeah, they've got employees across Canada and they're sort of a well-known. It's interesting. There's a few points on this, actually, though. I want to touch on. Like, Well-Simple is actually pretty well-known, and they would be called a Canadian sort of fintech success story. At the same time, like many other technology industry companies, at the moment, they're going through, well, you might say growing pains.

But let's, I want to separate the two conversations. I think Welsa was extremely innovative. I use their product, right? Can you describe what they are for people who might not know? Sure. Oh, yeah. I mean, this is a problem. They were doing one thing, which was helping anyone sort of invest the dollar in the stocks.

So an app that you could go on, you could click, you know, an Apple stock, and then you could buy a fraction of it or you could buy a whole stock. Apple's not a good example because their shares too high. But any other stock, right, on the TSX or, you know, the NASDAQ. which are stock exchanges for anyone else that know, right? And they would make it really simple for anyone to invest their money. So there's two things they did initially. One is you could just, you know, add $100, let's say, every two weeks to your investing account.

And then wealth simple would have their own investors go and invest for you, right? You don't have to think about it. You can watch your investments. Are they going up or are they going down? And you can tell them at the beginning of your investing journey. Are you someone who has a bigger risk appetite? So you're okay with wild fluctuations in the value of your portfolio. Or you can say, actually, you know what, I want, you know, reasonable returns and I don't want to be stressed about my portfolio dropping, you know, like 40% tomorrow.

So I've got a smaller risk appetite. So you tell wealth simple that, and then it'll do the investing for you. That was the first thing. And then the second thing was, if you were someone who was a bit more sophisticated and you want to choose your own stocks, it also allows you do that very simply, right? You upload some money into the app, and then you click, like, here, I want to invest in this. I want to invest in this. execute the trade and you can control that completely, right? It also does some other really cool things. Just like one of the biggest pet peeves in Canada for the longest time is the fact that

it was actually kind of hard for me to send you money. It was like a dollar to do an interact e-transfer in my online banking. Well, simple has to think of well, simple cash and like your wall where I can just be like 10 bucks. Cool. Over there. Like done, you've got the money now. In the U.S., I'm not sure if you know the term Venmo. Just like a Venmo mean that. Like most people in the U.S., like if you're in New York, Like everyone has a meal, like five people, one person pays for it, and then it's just like click, click there. We're settled now, right? So that's like very common there. It's less common in Canada because banks have made it harder for us to do that.

It's slightly getting better. Anyways, Well Simple is very innovative. And in many ways, the simplicity that Well Simple, I think, that they brought to finance and FinTech in Canada over the past few years has forced some of the larger banks, wealth is not a bank, but it's forced the banks to, at the very least, improve their user experience, right? Like, even my BMO bank account, that's like my primary bank, like, has gotten a lot better in the year. And I think that it's gotten a lot better because these upstarts like Wealth Simple has

made the banking experience a lot more user-friendly, a lot slicker, user interfaces, a lot better. And so I think it's good for these, like, smaller innovative companies to pressure these large organizations to do better. Do you think that that is a tough situation to be in? Because it's the same we sort of hear with elections, which is you have the Green Party, they come in, they're pushing all these new ideas, and then the NDP goes, we'll just take those ideas.

Exactly that. Yeah. And so it really impacts the ability for them to continue to grow because those Goliaths kind of go, oh, just take an idea here and I'll just take an idea there. and then the Green Party is no longer running a unique platform. They're running on everything else. And it seems like it's the same problem for a wealth simple as you take their secret sauce and you just kind of replicate it and all the banks do the same thing.

And then now they have to find a new secret sauce in order to continue to grow. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean, the people that run those companies, again, they're special individuals that can look at essentially the cartel of big banks that we have in Canada and say, I'm going to take all. on that. Like, that's a special individual, right, that thinks that they can do that and thinks that they can be successful. Well, simple, is seeing significant success, I would say. There's another one in Calgary called Flamingo. And again, this is where I kind of feel like, I'm like, I kind of get to, like, talk to these people in advance, right? And so, their CEO's name is

Taron, and I met him in Saskatoon, and he was just in Vancouver a few weeks ago for another conference and they're like they're like the wealth simple disruptors like they're like if well simple was built for millennials uh this there's another company called flamingo out of calgary that's like built for um gen z and so it's like taking the wealth simple and then said actually we're going to make this even easier and we're going to make this like even simpler and and have it more like focused on um gen z in terms of like the ux and how they navigate the internet um so i think that's really interesting interesting so you kind of get to see the second disruption taking place because people go, well, you did it good, but maybe we can

make this even simpler and how do we make this more accessible? Because I think finance is one that it's just, it's really unfair because you have this unequal distribution of people who know and people who have no idea. The average person has no idea what S&P 500 is, how it works, how to invest carefully and strategically, how to have a risk mindset or a safe mindset, and what makes sense during what period, most people don't even understand really inflation and how that kind of comes about. And you see government spending

and then people are really supportive of that. And then now we're in a period of inflation. And it's like most people don't seem to connect the two or say that they have any relationship. Yeah, I mean, that's such a big conversation. I don't know. This conversation has been about a lot of things. I don't know if it fits in.

But yeah, people love government spending until government prints money and then everything's more expensive because there's too much liquidity in the market. Sorry, it's like my little rant. But yeah, you're right. A lot of people don't understand how that works. It's the weird one for me because as an indigenous person knowing that inflation

impacts people on fixed incomes the worst and knowing that many indigenous communities are on fixed incomes, I just don't understand how it doesn't get said. Like there's no news article that I read that says inflation impacts these communities the worst because they're on fixed incomes. And so we don't want spending for the benefit of the communities that would be detrimentally impacted by. Like, I just, I don't hear it, and then I say it, and I feel like, I'm crazy because I'm the only person saying it, even though, as a log rat, it said it in my textbook.

Like, it's not controversial, and then I just, I don't hear about it. And I'm very concerned over the next 10 years of what inflation is going to impact my community and other indigenous communities. Yeah, I know. It's really good point. And, yeah, it's interesting that you say that. I just want to quickly note that I listen to your conversation with Camden. I follow him on Twitter, and so as soon as I saw that you talked to him, I was like,

ooh, I got to listen to that episode. So you're absolutely right. And it's funny, again, not to bring this back to technology necessarily, but technology affects all of these things, right? Like, technology is interestingly enough deflationary, right? So technology innovation should make things cheaper. And at the same time, things aren't getting cheaper. So it's like, well, why is that?

Like, it's a really interesting question that, like, people smarter than me and scholars smarter than me really explores, right? Well, it's because there's a focus on growth and jobs and, like, we fund growth in society through, in many cases, debt, right? And then, again, that leads to inflation and higher prices for things. And that, again, affects different communities differently. So it's like, it's a really interesting conversation. Yeah, I find it fascinating how maybe sometimes we don't appreciate things as much. Like, we just bought a new flat screen TV and it was only 1500 bucks and it's like the it's the the LGC1 and they came out with the LGC2 and it's not that different from the last one and we were asking questions and it was like

I feel like this should be $5,000 like in my in my heart in like my pocketbook like I'm just like this should be what you're telling me how amazing this is in comparison to what I have now it's so much better and yet the price has overtime decreased but in so many other areas like the phone has stayed rather the same. I think it's usually like a thousand bucks for a new iPhone if you're trying to buy it out right. And so things haven't come down in that regard. I'm interested in your thoughts on where you think you can take the Vancouver Tech Journal. What do you think is going to happen in the future? Because you're kind of alluding to this idea that it could be something larger. You mentioned that in another interview. What is your kind of value proposition where you see this going in the future? For sure. So the Vancouver Tech Journal, the way I really think of it is we uncover and tell stories that matter, right? And initially the mission was always

like, we're just going to provide the most complete coverage possible, right? So it's the big news stories, but it's also the little stories, right? The future big stories, right? And so we've been building a community. And in order for that to be sustainable, we need to attract a partner. So the tech journal, as well as I'd say the other overstory brand, it's really about, you know, growing the audience, attracting partners, which allows us to invest, right, in growing the audience further, right? That's sort of like the cycle or the loop. We've seen amazing success with the tech journal. So when I was writing it for fun, we had about 1,000 subscribers. Now we've got over 20,000 subscribers, right? So that's fantastic. And when we look at how many people actually

open the newsletter, that hasn't really changed at all. Like, it's a high percentage. Like, over 10,000 people are actually opening the news. newsletter, which is incredible and sometimes it's scary. It's like, oh, wow, like, what we write here and Kate, what you edit, like, it really matters because people are going to read this and this is going to shape their understanding of their community and the world from like a technological lens, right? So that's really important. And we think that what we do in Vancouver is just as applicable anywhere else.

And based off the conversations that I've had with people in other communities across Canada, they agree with us. And it's not just tech, right? It's like just local journalism, local storytelling. There needs to be more of that in different communities. So we actually have a Victoria Tech Journal now, and it's just getting started, but we're getting the same sort of reception where people think, I got an email from some other day saying, like, thank goodness you guys have this now because we have stories to tell, and there's

no one, where would we send this to? Who would we send this story to? Who would we try and tell the story to? And again, like, we're, again, I don't even, it's funny, like, and I've always thought this with my life personally, and then also with a tech journal, like, we're not necessarily experts, but we're the ones that are putting our hands up to say, we're going to work on this thing, right? And so whenever people mention me as, like, being in with journalism and stuff, I always find that really funny because I don't think I'm a journalist, right? But I do think of myself as someone who, like, does journalistic things, right? And so in Victoria, like, again, I'm writing. you have a Victorian entrepreneurs. People are saying, thank goodness someone is doing this. No one else was doing this. Like I said, I'm in Colonna next month. It's the same situation where

people say, you know, like no one is really doing this locally. I think that's crazy. Why isn't someone already doing this? Right? So we absolutely have ambitions to take what we're doing in Vancouver and doing it in other cities. And what's really important to me is that like I'm not going to be in Kelowna or in Calgary or in Saskatoon. These are all places where we're looking at, right? We're going to find the me or the Kate or the James. There are our main writers, right, of those places. And we're going to give them the tools and the playbook and the resources to succeed. That's really what we're thinking. That's so fascinating because you're creating like a focused community. And that seems like what Facebook was trying to do. But

then it seems like it falls off, like the importance of having people know where they can go to get the information that's relevant and specific to them. So they know, because when you open the newspaper, you don't know which page is going to jump out at you. You don't know what you're looking for as the reader. And so that's why you rely on an editor to try and kind of put the story together for you and engage you in some sort of way. But then that forces some constraints around what you talk about, what you think is going

to catch people, what's going to make them buy the next newspaper, or, open you the next time like it constrains you but when you're focused on a topic and you say you can expect to hear about technology in this then people go well I'm invested in that maybe I work in that field maybe I know somebody in that field maybe I'm interested like it creates a sense of community where they sort of know the topic already where they can get excited about it and it is I think a challenge when everything is always in a hub and so like Vancouver is the hub or New York is the hub or there's a certain hub than all of those other communities where somebody has an interest, a passion, and then they don't get to share it the same way because, well, now I have to move

to Vancouver to go be successful at that if I actually want to have a voice. And you're democratizing that. You're saying, and I think there was just an article written about how, like, postal codes really influence people's ability to succeed because their location predicts so many things about their health, their well-being, their employment opportunities, their educational opportunities, that the ability to democratize that and say, no, you're in this community and there's a sufficient amount of people doing something similar to you, where we can talk about that, promote that, and then share that with our other audiences so that you do get

that kind of recognition. And it's, I would say that OMG is doing something unique in that they're focusing on the community rather than let's get the biggest and best stories across all of Canada, which a lot of other news organizations do. Yeah, I love that. And so yeah, at Overstory, right? We've got, we do have, like, yeah, like a small communities. And then we've got communities focused on, like, topics and niches, right?

So there's the Burnaby Beacon. And then there's, but there's also like tasting Victoria, right? So it's Victoria plus food. And so I love how, like, the more niche you can go, the better almost, right? So we're Vancouver plus tech and innovation, right? And so that's what we're going to do. other places we want to do. We want to do Calgary plus tech and innovation, right? So you can say like, oh, like, yeah, that's me. Like, I really care about that. And that's really important to us.

And it's funny, this is how I think about stuff just like personally. Like, if you care about something, like the best way to like find the other people that also care about that is to, um, just like share your ideas and thoughts about that topic. So I would always say, you know, speak your language and the people who can understand that language, they're the ones that are going to respond to you, right? So you land in another country. Let's say you land in Russia.

It's like start talking like English, right? And eventually there's someone who's going to speak English and they're going to say, okay, like, now we can hang out. Right? Now we can talk about this thing based of that, like, connection.

And so when I moved to Vancouver and started writing the tech journal, that was kind of like what happened, right? I was just like, tech, tech, everything tech. And then the people who are also in the tech were like, oh, like, I speak the same language as that guy.

like maybe I'll hang out with that guy or maybe I'll build a connection or relationship with that guy. So we want to help people do that in other communities. We want the people in Calgary or in Halifax who are passionate about tech and innovation and people building the future. We want to be able to bring them together.

Yeah, and you get immersed in such fascinating topics, areas that maybe you didn't even know that would stand out to you. So can we go through a few? Like in health and technology, what interests you Is there a company that's doing something fascinating? Is there a CEO that's doing something that stands out to you, that's innovative, that's changing things?

Personally, I interviewed Ryan Darcy. I don't know if you know who he is, but he did Project Iron Soldier. I'm pretty sure I'm getting the name right. And it was, he's a neuroscientist. He had a veteran who was injured, and he was able to build, like, legs for him to be able to walk again after a child stabbed an axe. into the back of his head when he was in Afghanistan, I think. And so it was fascinating to be able to, and I had no idea that the health tech division is a growing industry in BC.

So do you have any thoughts on that? Yeah. No, you're right. There are, like, this could just in itself be like a five-hour conversation just about all the different innovative companies, right? So, but since, yeah, you mentioned health, there are countless really incredible, some people call them health tech. Some people say people say med tech.

Some people say like biotech, life sciences. But like, yeah, I mean, yeah, let's go through a couple of them. Really innovative company called pre-newvo. I'm not sure if you've heard of pre-newvo, right? So MRI machines are these massive things and they take like hours to do an MRI screening on you. And it costs tons of money, right? And you can, you know, people aren't on like wait lists for like months to get an MRI if something's wrong with them. So what the pre-newvo was doing,

It costs $2,500 right now, so it's kind of pricey, but you can pay $2,500 and you can get a full-body MRI scan done in like 40 minutes, which is crazy. And then the goal is that they can bring that price down far enough so that like you and I could go like a couple times of year. And through those MRIs, they're going to be able to identify like life saving or like any life altering potential problems that you have. But again, it's something that's like you can't really get now, but they have them in Vancouver, these devices, New York, San Francisco, but a lot of the R&D and engineering talent, and it's all in Vancouver, which is pretty incredible. And they're a CEO's a guy named Andrew Lacey, and I got to, yeah, like, meet with him casually at their office on Broadway. And like, so that's like something that I'm like, okay, that's really going to affect a lot of people eventually, right? A bit pricey now for most people, but again, their vision is to bring that price down. And I think they'll be able to do that as they have more locations, right?

And sort of they get to take advantage of economies of scale. So that's a really exciting company. There's like another company called Genexis. They were basically spun out of UBC. And so what they're tackling is the issue of drugs that doctors prescribe not working on people or having adverse effects. A lot of people don't realize, or maybe people do realize, like, almost all the drugs that doctors recommend for you, like, whenever you go in and you've got some issue, like, they don't work or they do something bad to you, actually, right? And it's because what's happened over the last, like, centuries, that you go to the doctor, you say, oh, this thing is aching, and the doctor goes like, ah, try this.

If it doesn't work, come back. Like, medicine hasn't changed in, like, centuries, right? Whereas what Genexis helps people do is, it'll help, sorry, it's a test. and the field is called pharmacogenetics, and I'm not smart enough to talk about it in depth, but that's what the skull. I've written an article about them. It's a test you can take,

and the test will essentially tell you, like, here are all the drugs that you should not be taking, right? And so your doctor can get that. And so whenever the doctor's treating you and prescribing medication to you, the odds that the drugs will actually work or not harm you will go up significantly. And so as an individual I want that,

as a doctor, I want that, and as an insurance company that's paying for these drugs, I want that as the government, like the public health system, I also want that because we want to be like improving people's health outcomes and not wasting money. So they're like another really cool company. And then a big company, whoops, that people should know, is, and a lot of people might already know, is absellera.

So absellera has been around since I want to say 2012 against Planet of EBC, And it got really well known during the COVID pandemic because it was the first company in the world to essentially help create COVID-19 antibody treatment. So not the vaccine, but a drug that people could take that would significantly improve health outcomes if you got it. And so again, local company, I don't know how to describe them besides like world class. Everyone around the world knows them, scientists around the world. world know them. They're investing significantly locally in lab space and in training like the next generation of people in in biotech. They're led by a guy named Carl Hansen. He's trying at that guy on like he's just incredible incredible mine and they just have an amazing team.

And again, another reason why this is a whole other topic that people came to sort of know them is that they had this antibody treatment, which was approved by Health Canada, and it was approved by the FDA in the U.S. And so in the U.S., like hundreds of, like thousands of patients were being treated with this antibody. And controversially, Health Canada purchased this antibody treatment federally. And yet, the BC government was like, hmm, humming and tying on this for like months and wouldn't use it. So we had this incredible antibody treatment that

other jurisdictions were using and the federal government already paid for and yet it was sitting on shelves in cold storage in B.C. And so it was something quite controversial that was in the news. And it was again, I don't know, again, that's a good thing about Canada and a unique thing

about Canada and the provinces have the independence to, you know, make different policy that fits their people in their jurisdictions. But then in some cases, as a regular person some things don't make sense but it's a whole lot of topic we don't have to get into but to the original question

when it comes to a health tech there are many many many incredible businesses and researchers and entrepreneurs in the province that are working on some really incredible things that have like significant potential to like save lives

and improve outcomes for people yeah I think that that's particularly interesting where you have like a level of innovation, a level of drive that you just maybe don't recognize or appreciate or or get to see. And so hearing about how there's these businesses, these organizations, these entrepreneurs who are bringing about really positive change is something that not everybody realizes. And so when you get to hear about it, it kind of inspires you to go like, wow, the BC made. Like that that means something to us in like a weird way that sort of sports does as well when you find out like

your favorite sports person is from your community or something like that. And so I think that that's really interesting. Agriculture is another big one. It's an issue that continues to arrive and impact us. I spoke to Paul Van Westendorp, who's a bee expert. He's a provincial apiculturist. And so he was talking to me about the challenges we have with agriculture. We had like this much soil and it just, we keep depleting it and using it and then sending it off to around the world.

And so we need to make better decisions around our agriculture. And agrotech is something you've talked. talked about. Can you tell us about what's going on with agriculture and technology, the advancements we're making, and your thoughts on the industry? Yeah, it's a really exciting space and what's interesting about agriculture or agri-tech or there's a debate if it's called agri-tech or ag-tech. People use both names and BC is that like, I think it really came into focus over the past couple of years as there were food shortages, there were supply chain disruptions and, you know, you'd go into the grocery store

and some of the shelves would be empty, right? And you'd think, like, well, what's going on here? And it was because literally products couldn't get, you know, across whatever in the Pacific or whatnot, right? So it put the need for having, like, real food security, not just like in urban centers, like here, but like up north in BC, put that into focus, right? And it makes, again, thinking about agriculture

and, like, where our actual food comes from, it made it even more important. And in BC, there are, Similar to health tech, there are so many companies working on these challenges in really innovative in different ways. So there's an exciting company called, you know, Tara Mara, for example, is founded by a guy named Karin Manhaz. And we just talked, I just talked to their VP, but like culture and talent and working there. And they're building a product, or they have a product called ActiveGate, which essentially enables farmers to use, like, a fraction of the amount of pesticide than they normally would have to, to protect their crop yields. So their mission basically is to like, you know, a hundred X amount of crop yields,

but then also reduce the amount of pesticides used significantly. So that's a really innovative company. And then there are other companies like Ecoation. They're based out of North Vancouver. And similarly, they've got these sensors that you will attach to your crop yields or put in your fields. And they will tell you, like, if your plants are being, or crops are being harmed by like pesticides, like bugs, obviously. and they again we'll monitor that through sensors

so again it'll help you manage the amount of pesticides you use and then there are other really cool companies like Semios this is a company that's worth over a billion dollars they will take these different sensing companies

and they'll give a farmer like a dashboard so you can track like it's like on an iPad like okay it's raining this much okay like pesticides are affecting our crops this much and they pulled all together so a farmer can monitor all of that in one place. There's another company called Cubic Farms,

really, really interesting company, and they're building a production facility on Vancouver Island now, but they're based here in the Lower Mainland. And Cubic Farms, they sort of comes from the name, they have these modules that are stacked on top of one each other,

so you can basically produce like 10x the food in a square foot than in a normal field, because you've got these stacked modules. So, like, people can't see. Oh, I guess people can see behind you, right? Like those squares. Like, imagine each one of those was growing crops, right?

And so that's in a room, right? So you're 10xing the amount of production in small spaces. So that's really significant. And again, that really focuses on how we can increase the amount of food without affecting the rest of the environment. So there's, like, there's a ton of companies in the space. Like, I'd go on a long time about Agritech and D.C. and how important it is.

Again, just like getting food to people. And not just like in Vancouver. Like in Vancouver, like there's farms around, like outside of the city. Like we've got grocery stores. But it's really important when you think of some of these more remote areas in BC and how we serve them and how do we get them food. Yeah. Baby food is a big one.

I think it was you or one of your team members that actually wrote an article all about baby food because there have been shortages recently around the baby food industry. and people trying to disrupt the system that maybe is getting outdated. I think the person you interviewed was focused on, like, maybe babies don't want to eat some of this food. Maybe there's better ways that we could go about feeding them healthy nutritional diets that goes beyond just apples, pears, mandarin. I don't know what baby food is common, but in that space, can you talk about that?

I do remember that article, and James Matthews on our team wrote it. And I read it a long time ago. So I honestly forget the in-depth stuff, but what you just said is exactly that. And I think for me, what's just unique or interesting is the fact that, yeah, we have these people taking things and then saying, well, hold on a second, asking questions about doing things differently. I think that's the important thing. Like, again, to compare the baby food example of like, well, you know, maybe you don't want to eat this food. Like, how can we do that differently? And then you look at cubic farms around, like, farming.

It's like, well, we've got this fixed amount of land. You know what? In cities, whenever we have a fixed amount of land, what do we do? We build up. So maybe we could do that with our farming, right? So it's another way that people think differently. And, you know, you can tie that back to, like I said, the phrase, think differently. Again, like company like Apple, like, well, you know, this is how computers were made.

Maybe we can build computers this way, right? And so, yeah, whether it's, like, health care or food, there are a lot of people in BC thinking about how we can do things differently and perhaps making things better. So I love that. Do you think that you are an optimistic person because you get to see the solutions? It's easy. I had an ocean pollution expert on. He remained optimistic, but it was tough to hear such negative information about the oceans

and how we're polluting it and how we're contaminating killer whales and then talking to somebody else about how we use rat poison and then that rat poison enters owls. and it's like it can be very it can be a negative space but you get to hear about the solutions the people who are saying we've been doing it this way let's do it some some other way that's going to be better for everybody involved maybe we won't get it right the first time but we'll bring the prices down we'll change these things so do you find that the space that you get to work in the people you get to hear from give you that inspirational juice that you get to go like we're we're flawed as humans we're not perfect but we're moving in a better direction is

how you get to feel regularly? Do you feel like it's tough to stay positive? I'm just curious. No, that's exactly how I feel. I feel very lucky, and I wish, I guess this is kind of why I do my job, right? It's that I do get to hear about all these innovations and technology. I get to talk to people.

I want everyone to know everything that I know. And I also, so I am optimistic. I'm also just like personally, if I look at my life, like, I've always had the attitude that, like, you know, things will work out, like, people are good, you know, at the end of the day, like, things will be better, right? And I kind of see that with technology and innovation. And then again, I've also gone through that. And the other thing with, like, tech and innovation is, like, I see a lot of things that people are working on. And the outcome is not necessarily what they thought initially. So you might be building this new technology and your initial idea didn't work. But then we're going to use, like, whatever tools. you built and we're going to apply a different use case to it. That happens in tech and innovation law too. And if you talked to, yeah, I think anyone in tech and innovation, they'd say like there's technology and then there's innovation. And the tech might be like the raw new thing you made. And

then the innovation is like how did we apply that to like increase social value to do something like good for the world actually, right? So I think for a lot of people, at least within government anyway. There's a difference between tech and innovation. There's like tech, which is like the thing you made, maybe like the fact that you can make an app. And then the innovation would be like, oh, if you're using that app for a really good purpose,

that would be the innovation. Do you think that's hard for the CEO, the leader, the person who started it? You have to have a vision of where you're taking all of this. And so you almost have to be willing to let go of what you thought it was going to be used for. Like maybe you're in the medical space and you're like, this is how this is going to function.

And then an agriculture person comes along and says, hey, we can just extrapolate this and apply it to this. And then they go, but I care about health. Like, that's why I go, do you think that's a challenge for CEOs? I think for some people, yes, but I think there are people who recognize the value in both. Yeah, there are some people who are very much into agriculture or health, and they want to say in those spaces. But actually, you use such a good example. Like Michael Gilbert, he's the CEO of Semios, which is one of the company that, companies I just mentioned. I talked to him recently and he specifically was like, like, I'm not a farmer.

You know what I mean? But I just know how powerful these tools are. And I think farmers need to harness them for all these reasons, right? And so he's, I don't think he's necessarily like married to farming and agriculture. But he's an extremely intelligent person and he knows how to scale tools and engineering and bring people together for a common purpose. And right now that common purpose is helping farmers like grow more crop yields. So I think for a lot of people, yes, there are certain tools and tech and some people might be really focused on a specific niche, but some people are more focused on, like, can we solve problems in any field, right? And how I would compare that to other things. Like, if you look at BC, what makes BC unique is that sure there are all these different niche tech fields like ag, tech, agriculture, blockchain. But what I would say makes BC or Vancouver special. in the tech world is that you just have like smart, talented people that have really good transferable skills and they can apply them in any one of these fields. And so you can see someone jumping from like the egg space to the health space or like

the VR-A-R space right into like another software space. So yeah, I know it's super fascinating. Do you think that's a challenge that we as maybe human beings struggle with, which is we want the expert talking about it for whatever reason. You talked about how you are yourself or like you don't consider yourself an expert in the field, but you're willing to go talk to people and stay in the loop and educate yourself, which does in some way make you an expert, but that falling in love with the idea that we need the head of the agriculture board, I don't know if that's a thing, but we need that person to tell us how to do things better isn't necessarily

the case. I think it's like when we've gone to space, we often go, why do we need to go to space? Like, what a waste of money. We don't need that. But a lot of the technological innovations that we've experienced as people around phones, microwaves, I'm sure there's many more that I'm not thinking of that impact our daily life. Like, we think we invest in, like, a new machine that it's going to fix all of our health care problems. But the solution seems to come from way over here, where we didn't anticipate the impact that that was going to have on our industry. Like, we expect it to come from the field in which the problem originated.

and that's not always the case. Do you think that that's sometimes a challenge for us is that we want it to all kind of fit into siloed boxes and that's just not how solutions kind of come about? Yeah, I would say that, I don't know if it's a challenge, but I would say that's like a misconception a lot of maybe young people have when they're like looking at their future in the world.

And I think a lot of people think like, well, you know, I have to grow up and I have to do this thing and this is where we're going to solve spaceflight or this is where we're going to solve agriculture. and I think people think everything should make sense and not everything makes sense. So I do think people struggle with that in that sense. The other thing is I think people forget,

people have short memories. And then once we have, I think people very quickly take the new innovation we have for granted. For real, yeah, absolutely. Right. And so once we have something in our hands, people forget where it came from, who developed it, it doesn't really matter.

It's like, I want Wi-Fi on a plane and why doesn't this Wi-Fi work, right? you know what I mean like even though it might have been developed for something else right so I think people have very short memories do you think that that's a good thing or a bad thing that we kind of we catch the Steve jobs but we don't remember a lot of the people that kind of brought it about it scares me personally because it makes us as a society as a whole ungrateful for all of the advancements that we've kind of experienced I think of podcasts and video communications like this as like now like for the longest time specifically

indigenous communities have been kind of disconnected from everything else. They couldn't hear from voices like yourself. If you're in Vancouver, they're not in Vancouver, how are they supposed to hear about you? YouTube has disrupted so that they could learn from someone like yourself or from a doctor or it's diversified the voices you can hear from. And that gives me a lot of hope. But we don't recognize that. We don't talk about it the way I think we need to in order to understand that things are getting better.

that the problems specifically around Indian residential schools was you had one siloed group in one area and the rest of society over here. Now, social media communications allows us to communicate kind of flawlessly. And so I'm grateful for that because it seems like technology has made sure that we can't repeat the mistakes of the past. But we're not grateful for it. We don't talk about it. Maybe we don't understand how things have advanced. Do you think that that's something we need to do a better job on is appreciating? sort of the growth, or do you think that there's just too much advancement all the time

to be able to keep track of who did what and when? No, I think you absolutely need to appreciate the growth and the change. And I would say I agree with you. Like, progress and change and also just like history needs to be taught and retought and remind, like, we all need to remind ourselves of like what has changed society and what has happened before us. I mean, like, I just think that's critical. At the same time, to your point, like, or if you look from a tech and innovation lens, it's like there's absolutely no way you or I could learn about in-depth every single piece of technological advancement that's happened.

Like, it's sort of impossible, right? Like, when would that happen? But I do think it's important that, and this is something we do the Vancouver Tech Show. If we were talking about anything, context is important just from a storytelling perspective. Right. If we are talking about, let's say, advancements in tech and innovation or health or whatever, it's like, well, how was it before and what was a journey that got us to where we are today?

What were the barriers that had to be overcome for us to put us in this situation, whenever we're talking about any of these tools or tech or innovation like that? And especially like when we're talking about, yeah, like residential schools, right? To be honest, it wasn't even that long, not that long ago, actually, right? Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, right? Like when people think of it, like something like that, not that long ago, actually, right? So I think it's absolutely necessary that people understand, like, where did we come from?

And people need to be reminded so we don't do anything like that ever again, especially with that topic. But also with tech and innovation, I think it's really important that, like, context. People think, like, oh, well, we have this device and this is what this device does. It's equally as important to people know. It's like, well, there's a real thing. reason this is this specific way, because maybe there were unintended consequences of previous approaches. So I think that's really important to think about. Yeah, absolutely. You did an amazing article. I don't think it was specifically on CEOs, but it was about kind of leaders in the

tech and business space that stood out to you. And they all were female. And I thought that that was really admirable because in the last podcast you talked about, it seems like they can be overlooked or sort of missed. And so you did a great job of highlighting different individuals in different spaces. One of them was the First Nations Tech Council leader. Denise Williams. Yeah. So can you tell us some of the people that stood out to you and their contributions?

Yeah. And so I'm glad that you noticed that was all women because that was very intentional. But you didn't say it. But I didn't say it on purpose. That was also very intentional. And that was, I think, International Women's Day, I think two or three years ago, I did a tweet thread of, like, here are some really important leaders that are having really a disproportionate impact on the community, right, that one person should have.

And it was, it was a list of any 23 female leaders. And I very intentionally didn't say, like, here are the 23 women you need to know in the space. Because, yeah, it kind of wasn't important, right? It should just be like, here are really important people that are, like, kind of shaping, like, how we all grow companies and create this. community. And yeah, they happen to be women, right? And, and that's really important. And yeah, there's so many incredible people on the list. So yeah, Denise Williams, former CEO of the

First Nations Technology Council, she just stepped down. But she, phenomenal leader. And she was also on the board of Innovate BC where I used to work. Incredible person. Who's another unique person on that list? For a totally different reason. Kim Kaplan. So she is the CEO of a company called snack and it's kind of like Tinder meets TikTok local company and she was the third employee at Plenty of Fish like the dating site so this is like a long time ago but she was at that company and helped grow it to hundreds of millions of users and and she was there till it was sold to the match group for $575 million which is pretty remarkable and so she since started a new company. Another person on that list,

Curson Sutton. She's the chief technology officer at Van City, the not a bank cooperative. She's pretty remarkable and that she's like a French trained chef. She had like 15 jobs before she was 20. And now she leads a technology organization essentially. And so I find her really special just because again, And it's like, not necessarily someone who's, like, hardcore into tech, but it's just a person that's very thoughtful and good at leading teams. And so this is where they find themselves. And I think that's really special in the tech space and that it's kind of how I think about myself.

Like, I happen to be knowledgeable about tech and stuff, but like there's more to me than tech. Yeah, you're a multi-dimensional person. Yeah. And so I think Kurtzun is just a great example of that. There's a long list, and there's a lot of people I can talk about, but those are three that stand out for sure. Absolutely. it was really beautiful how you wrote it because it didn't stand out to me and then I kind of went oh I think because I was like this would be a good podcast guest this would be a good podcast guest

and those list styles are so helpful I'm interested who are some CEOs generally that stand out to you that maybe we don't know about and what do you see in them that we might not be able to see um like locally or globally or your call dealer's choice um I mean if if we stay local just for bit, there's a woman named Allison Taylor. She is the CEO of a company called Jane Software or Jane App. Some people call them. And most

people know... Counselors, right? This is... Well, counselors, physios, massage therapists, they all use their tool for, like, booking their patients. So it's funny, I talked to most people and I immediately know Jane Software or Jane App. And so it's a North Vancouver company.

Alston Taylor herself was a physio. was like, I need a tool that works the way I wanted to work. And it didn't really exist. So her and a business partner, Trevor, created Jane App, and then eventually started selling it to other clinics and other health services providers. And that company is doing like over $50 million in annual revenue. And you have to remember that their clients are only paying them like $100 a month.

So they have like every health service provider you can think of, I'm sure, like locally and then also in other countries and jurisdictions must use Jane app because I talked to her recently for a Vancouver technical in-person event. And it was an event that I spoke to a company with like $5 million in revenue, a company with $10 million in revenue, and then Jane, Alison Taylor was there, doing $50 plus million in revenue. And she's just like, I'm just thinking about that, right? Like a physiotherapist that now leads a $50 million technology.

technology. It's wild. And so just people, see, like, that's why I'm interested in people. Like, I don't really care about the software. Like, that's just an incredible story. She's such an interesting woman. She's mother. Like, she's such an interesting person. And I've talked to her, and, like, they're obsessed with, like, their staff and their customers, and they know, like, you take care of your staff. Their staff are going to take care of everyone else, right? And, like, I think that's been a really key to their success. and she's just like a, like a badass, if I can say that on.

You know what I mean? Like, so when people actually, actually, I was actually on another podcast, someone asked me who my favorite CEO was, and she's always at the top of my list. Up there with, like, you know, Elon Musk. Like, she's, you know, like, something that I really respect. And I think a lot of people can learn a lot about her. And she's not out there, like, trying to, like, say how great she is. Like, it's very hard to actually get her to, like, do an interview or, like,

tell her story. She's just working on the product and ensuring the team succeeding, right? So she's very, very high up there. Another CEO, again, let's go global. Brian Chesky, he's the CEO of Airbnb. And I don't know. I just think he's a cool guy. Like, I don't know him personally, but like I've listened to all his interviews. I've seen how that company's operated since they were founded. Like initially when Airbnb was pitched to invest. are most of them thought like this is insane like you're just going to let like strangers just like stay in other people's homes like that sounds like only psychopaths would do that but a lot of them still backed Airbnb because Brian like his hustle was just so strong that they were like

even if we think this idea is a bit nuts like this guy is so passionate about this idea and this guy works so hard we're going to invest in this company and so again it comes down to like Airbnb is just like a software app like whatever but like the ideas like you know unconventional and then the work at like rate of the individual is remarkable right and so again comes back to what we started with like tech the textways it's just interesting because of the people generally yeah i couldn't agree more and you think of how they've really revolutionized markets ubers the same way um specifically with Airbnb it's like my partner and i have no interest in staying in hotels anymore because of

Verbo and Airbnb because there was something stale about the experience in hotels that you didn't know was stale until you're sitting there and you're like, oh, I can have cups. Oh, I can make food. Like, that's not like I don't need to always go out to eat. We can just figure out what works best for us in the space. And it changed a lot of people's thinkings, but it also made people more innovative. And I'm really excited about the direction as a culture we're going because side interests, passions, hustles, whatever you want to call them, are becoming more commonplace.

The idea of having a podcast on the side or writing on the side through substack or having an Airbnb that makes you money on the side. There was just an article that came out that rentals were just outbeat, outpaced the S&P 500 for the first time ever over the last, I think, 10 years or something as a way of bringing in revenue.

That's fascinating when the S&P's always been kind of the standard for people. So I just, I have a lot of optimism in regards to kind of the direction that we're going. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like, it's funny, you mentioned Verbo too. Yes, great website. You said as well.

But again, like, yeah, like people hustling and doing things on the side and like, yeah, the Airbnb story is just so good. And I love your point about, yeah, like people working on other stuff. It's like, I have a full-time job, right? Like, I'm paid well and I'm still always like hungry to like try new things and like, what's another thing I can be working on? I just can't help it, right? And I guess that's like a lot of these people are like...

Yeah, just passionate and just willing to like try new things. Because I think that a lot of the freedoms that we have today are for that purpose. So you can go figure out what you enjoy. And I hear a lot of people go like, oh, like it's just too much work. And it's like if you're doing it and enjoying it, it shouldn't feel like work. It should be like somebody's paying you to do what you love. And we sometimes get into this feeling like anytime we're doing something other than watching TV, it's like work but it's it's not like there are times where it's like 10 p.m and I should be sleeping

but I'm working on the podcast because I'm excited to release this interview I really enjoy the conversation I see the value of it and the most fascinating part to me is how much the guest often underestimates the value that they brought like the insightful information they brought like that always surprises me as the host personally because I'm like I just loved that conversation and they're like oh yeah like I don't know how it'll do like I don't know if anybody my nonsense and it's like why would you like it's so it's just so interesting do you see that in other people when you talk to them so it's so funny i do but it's weird because like i interview a lot too so i should get this right so yeah like i'm on this talking to you and i'll go home and i'll think

like oh did i even say anything interesting um because i sometimes have a hard time differentiating between like what i know and just like what everyone knows like because i don't think i'm special so i'm i was like well doesn't everyone know all the stuff that i know like this isn't Like, you know, when I talk about tech and something, like, is this really interesting? Like, I'll be writing, like, one of our morning reports with a tech journal. Like, like, is this even interesting? Doesn't everyone know this? And so I have to, like, remind myself, like, no, well.

Like, not everyone is obsessed with this stuff like you, so they don't know any of this. Right? Yeah. That, I think, is my biggest challenge is because I love just hearing people's passions. And so it doesn't, I enjoy it being about a topic I know nothing about. And then humbling myself and then going, okay, what do I not know? what questions would be valuable that will help people understand more to show how many different directions in life you can go.

Because I think that it's just mind blowing how you can go become obsessed with bees or the ocean or indigenous culture or law or tech or like there's just so many different places you can go in life and you just have to choose one and start to figure out how you can make it meaningful to you. And sometimes it's from those unlikely places like the lady who started the Jane app. It's like she would have never thought that. And then now she's making a difference and making people's lives easier to be able to work with their clients and connect better. And often it's in those like little areas where it's like scheduling with your counselor.

You want that to be easy because getting help is so important. But I have noticed I work as a native coworker that getting on the phone with the person, the counselor, whoever it is can be a challenge. And then that's discouraging when you're like, finally, okay, I need the help. And then it's like, well, I can't get a hold of the person. So this just proves I shouldn't get help. Like, it's so easy when you're doing something outside your comfort zone to kind of quit. Oh, the AA meeting was rescheduled. Well, this just proves I shouldn't go.

And it's like, no, we need to do better at making sure people connect. And that seems like what obviously happened there. For sure. And like, I just love the idea of people kind of talked about it. Just pursuing passions, trying new things. I again apart from like systemic barriers and stuff like that I think anyone can do like anything like generally speaking and the only reason I say that I say this to Michelle my partner a lot like I'm like oh like everything I've done I'm like anyone can do this like is I don't know

if what I do is even special I just think like a lot of it like how do I describe it I just I look at myself when I think of stuff that I've been able to accomplish and I never think that I have been like qualified, so-called qualified to do it. So I'm like, oh, anyone can do this thing that I'm doing. I guess, I don't know. Like, I just constantly am trying to just see what I can get away with. You know what you're mean? It's like, I pulled that off somehow.

Like, now I have this newsletter. Like, so I have a food blog too. I'm like, yeah, someday that'll maybe be famous. That's cool. Like, why wouldn't that work on this thing that I'm interested in right now? You're on a food blog too. Yeah, yeah. I'll come on again.

We can talk about food. Amazing. because I think that that's like the flair that people bring to their excitement. It's, I was trying to think because as the podcast host, I was like, I'm not doing anything special. But then the counterpoint I tried to make to myself was like, who's going to be as interested in talking to the person as you are? And that's going to be your secret sauce. It's like actually be interested, be engaged. And I'll never forget one of my close friends who came on the podcast.

He was fascinated by leatherwork, started a YouTube channel focused on leatherwork. And I was like, okay, I know nothing about how to work with leather. I've never worked with it in my life. Most of the stuff I've owned is like faux leather. It's not real. So I was like, okay, develop questions. Where do you get the leather? How do you develop it?

What is the process to make something out of it? How does it feel to me? And he was like, wow, you're really interested. Like, that means a lot to me. I thought you were just going to be like, why do you do this? And like, just kind of be offhanded about it. But it's like, no, that my secret sauce is listening and trying to understand where this came about for them and really engaging in the topic

and that's what I have to hone because that's what other people won't bring to it that I will bring and so that's going to be the secret sauce of hopefully the success of this is actually being interested and not just there was one person that I've seen and they do interviews

but they read off the same 20 questions for every guest and it was like that is the anti of what I'm trying to do it's like no question one person just said like oh do you ever ask the same question twice and I was like I don't think I've ever asked the same question twice I don't even think that they're similar in any sort of way. And so that's trying to figure out what you're going to do that's kind of your differentiation is so key.

Well, do you ever, it's funny, I'm surprised we've gotten to this point and I haven't asked you a question because I've been on some other podcasts and I can usually never help myself. I have to start asking questions because it's just my nature. But do you ever like get to a point where you're like, okay, I'm not sure what to ask anymore. Has that ever happened with you? In the very early stages, it's why part of me doesn't love the research part before because I'm like, I'm excited about it, it'll be fine. But then there are so many interesting things I learn about the person through the research process.

I usually put in one to two hours of research, trying to understand and catch like the little things that most people would miss. Because again, that's where I think I'm trying to differentiate myself. So it's not just reading the headlines. It's going down to the very bottom and trying to see if there's anything unique that somebody may have missed. or like an interesting aspect of the person listening to other interviews they've done to help prepare. So I always have like in the back of my mind, like you spoke in an interview for like 45 minutes.

There's tons of follow up questions that I can have to always pull on to be super, remain interested and to make sure that the conversation feels natural. Because my goal, it's one thing I've always admired about Joe Rogan's podcast is at the end he'll be like, and we just did three hours. And the reaction at the end is always what matters to me. of seeing whether or not the person was engaged or not. Because if they're like, finally, we're done, well, I've done a terrible job as the host then. But if they go, wow, that just flew by, that's an indication that we got lost in conversation. And I think that that's where research and preparedness becomes kind of key is you're not reading off of a list of pre-prepared questions. Very, very cool.

And just if you're curious, I feel like we haven't been talking that long. So I think we have, but it doesn't feel like it's a good, it's good. Yeah. so I'm interested as to what what you think we can gain from learning about the tech space like for people who might not know about Vancouver's tech space like do you think that this is good for people just to understand like and humble themselves of like there are great people in this environment that you should learn about is it it sounds like for you it's just the journey of people's professional development of growing something that is the standout thing it's not necessarily oh this app has this new piece of technology that allows it to. move two seconds faster than the last version. It's way more about people's development, which I think is fascinating because a lot of people would assume, oh, you're fascinated by the new speed of the new laptop, and it's two seconds fast. That doesn't seem to be, but that's what people think of when they think of technology. Yeah, I don't care at all about the speed

of laptops. I love my MacBook, but I don't ever want to write about like hardware or anything like that. Like, that'll come up on a story, but it's, it's, that's not what makes me passionate about, um, the tech industry, right? Um, there are a few things that I think are important locally, right? One is just, um, general awareness and appreciation for the people, again, who are attempting these like, you know, great feats of entrepreneurship, right? Like, I think they deserve to have their stories told. Um, and tied to that is the fact that we were talking about women in tech, right? Like, there might be someone or a girl who's interested in technology, and they need role

models, right? And it's not obvious that they're going to, like, get that in their school. Like, where are they, like, Alison Taylor of Jane App is not in her textbook yet. Maybe she will be in the future, right? So it's like, I think it's important to tell the stories of people in this city so that other people can go, like, oh, interesting, like, there's an example, or there's a role model, There's someone's experience that I can like, and it's, there's just here in Vancouver. Like, everyone has heard of C. Jobs, but C. Jobs is not from Vancouver, right?

So, you know, stories of incredible people here, I think are really important because I feel like people can relate to that more and they can think like, oh, like, that company's here in B.C. Like, that's really cool. Like, Disney has an animation studio in Vancouver. It's like, what? Like, that's cool. I didn't know. I could, like, get into that here in B.C.

So I think stuff like that's really, really important. But there is, there's like, and there's so much work to do in the tech sector, right? Like, it's still predominantly like white guys, like, let's be honest, right? So we need to think about that, right? Like, when you, like, Horgan's government, I think used to have a thing that was like, we need to increase, like, access and, like, the benefits of technology to as many people in the province, right? And, like, I'm not a fan of everything the NEP says and does. But that is something I, like, strongly agree with.

Like, we need to make sure the benefits of, like, the emerging economy, you know, reach everyone in the province. Like, how do we do that? And I think probably the first thing is, like, education and awareness. So that's really, really important. I don't know if I answered your question, but, yeah, like, it's not, like, app speeds and downloads. It's, like, showcasing people, like, driving awareness about, like, you know, what remarkable individuals have done locally, it's, you know, telling the stories of potential role models

for other people in the province. And it's hopefully throughout all that, like, ensuring that more people can benefit from tech and innovation. And actually, there's a really good reason why that's important, which is simply that, like, long term, there is no scenario where, you know, science and technology and innovation is not going to continue to have an increasing impact on our lives like food health whatever there's there's sorry in my opinion there's no scenario where those things don't continue to impact our lives sort of like what we started out at the very beginning time but technology being upstream of everything technology shapes like media and culture and discourse just because it provides like the tools that we used to do this right

and so that shapes everything. And so, you know, I want, you know, a 16-year-old girl in high school to think like, oh, like the tech industry, what is that? Like, I could be a product manager. I could be a U.S. designer. Like, I want them to understand what that means and what that is and to see themselves in that world and potentially impacting that world. Yeah, I think that's so, first of all, being proud as a British Columbian, as a Vancouverite or whatever it is, to be proud of the people who are successful. ceding in your community, in your area. And I think the thing that hurts me personally is how easy it is to be jaded to the successful. How easy it is, I know Jeff Bezos isn't a perfect

guy. I know Elon Musk isn't a perfect guy. There's no dispute that they're imperfect, flawed individuals. But I've heard people say, like, I hate Elon Musk. And it's like, you just, you can't. It's like, to me, it's like an unwritten rule where somebody has, a level of impact on our society that you can't have your normal sort of expectations that he has like a normal life compared to you putting those kind of constraints on a person like that is just not going to fly so admire them for what they were great at and uh i just listened to an interview um where they were talking about how um isaac newton was a conspiracy theorist like a crazy nonsensical believed that there's a cabal of people and it's like we don't remember that

for what he did. What he contributed was in physics, where he is remembered and where he should be rightfully remembered. Albert Einstein, I'm pretty sure he married his cousin. We don't go to Albert Einstein for his relationship advice. We go to him for advice on how physics works. We categorize people appropriately in that regard, but pulling at people for like their biggest mistakes in history and applying that to them just, it doesn't seem fruitful. It's not that you can't do it. It's just it's not fruitful and so appreciating Elon Musk's advancement of batteries when from my understanding and I could be wrong on this battery improvements and innovation is like it's slowing down and we're having trouble innovating that from my understanding it's the same with solar is like we're

trying to figure out how to get more energy out of it and it's just it's a challenge and so when people are able to do anything in those fields that's at all different when you look at everybody said to Elon like how are you going to develop the car manufacturing space like it's already so you have to be giant in order to do that. He figured out a way. That's an inspirational story, whether or not you focus on his personal life or whether or not he's in a relationship with Grimes or whoever it is. Like, that's inspirational regardless of what his personal story is.

And it seems like we, that context, it seems like we sometimes struggle with that. I think you're absolutely right. And I know people like good friends who, yeah, are part of like the anti-Elon Musk group. But I don't get it. First of all, we don't know him personally. Like, you know what I mean? We know him from Twitter and news articles. What you cannot dispute is that he essentially transformed like an industry.

Like, you cannot dispute that. And you cannot dispute the fact that all the other auto manufacturers would have dragged their feet on electric vehicles had it not been for Tesla. Right? So he literally changed an industry in dispute. And that's, yeah, indisputably, right? But yeah, like you said, you can't judge him like a normal person, right? And also, we don't know him personally. Right?

It's like, that's wild. Oh, there was somebody else you said. But, oh, yeah, I was just going to say, all these topics are so complex. Because if you wanted to dig deeper into, like, electric vehicles and stuff like that and, like, battery power and technology, then it's like, okay, well, where do you get the materials to create battery? Right? And it's like, well, you get those from the ground. So then it's like, there's a whole other conversation to be had about like, okay, well, how are we getting like these like minerals and these ores from the earth? And like, and it's cool, though. There are companies in BC that are focusing on stuff like exactly that type of stuff. So I find that really exciting about BC. Yeah, I actually just got to speak with what I didn't speak with. He was speaking. David Eby, who's running for premier of the NDP. And he was talking about how we need to grow our mining industry and be proud of it. And it was like, I didn't. see that coming from him. I didn't see that coming from usually resource extraction is a very conservative position. So hearing that from him was very surprising and he was talking about how we're going to do it ethically, uh, equitably, try and be fair about it. And this whole

conversation, it's like we don't want issues to be too complicated. And to your point, it's like we have BC's in a unique position because we run off of BC Hydro. So our cars would be charged by hydro. Where in the States, one of the challenges is you get electric car and then your car charges at home, but that's charged by fossil fuels to charge your home. And so we're in a unique position in that regard, but this battery problem is something that it's like we almost don't want to have a conversation yet because we don't have a solution to what do we do when these batteries burn out. What do we do with the leftover minerals? Where do we throw them away? What are we going to do with them? And it's like, we're really good at like finding the next solution. But it was the

same when I spoke to the ocean pollution expert, he's like, people love their blue bins. They love them. Canada invention feels good when you put it in the blue bin. Recycling's not as effective as anybody wants it to be. It's nowhere near the success that we needed it to be. It's not a long-term solution to the problem. And it was like, oh, we don't want to hear that. Like, I like my blue bin. It makes me feel good. Oh, that's so interesting. Yeah, it's a really good point. The deep at Eby point's very interesting. I need to look that up. I should also tell him, again, this is another thing where again, tech and innovation in BC is so special to me. Because you've got, yeah, batteries have to come from,

the materials for batteries need to come somewhere. They come from the ground. And really interestingly, there are companies locally, like there's local companies, one called ID on Technologies. They have created this device, which basically lets you, like, x-ray the ground. And the way they do that is by using this technology called muon tomography, which, again, I don't even know how it works,

but it uses the stars to x-ray the ground. I know a lady involved in that startup. Oh, okay. there you go, right? That's so crazy. And so it's, that's so incredible. But then the other thing, point you made was that the way batteries are used nowadays is basically electric batteries get used to like, they're 80% working. And then they get like thrown out. Like that's like how like the standard practices. And there's another local company called Moment Energy, which basically said like, that's ridiculous. And the way James on my team wrote about it in an article was like,

It's like taking two sips out of a beer and then throwing it away, right? That's what we do with our batteries right now. So there's a local company called Moment Energy, which is figuring out how to repurpose them. And again, it's like, it's another local company. And it's like if they're successful, it's not just impact on Vancouver and B.C. and Canada, but that's like a global solution. Yeah. Right.

So, sorry, like wrapping a whole bunch of different talking points together, but like complex, but then it's really neat to see the solutions to some of these complex problems. that are here, like homegrown. Yeah, I had Sammy Kahn on, who's a chemical engineer at SFU, and he was talking about the process of trying to find solutions to cleaning solar panels because it's an underestimated problem. But if you have kicked on dust or plants or anything get on top of it, where your solar panels are not going to operate as efficiently,

but sending someone up to the top to clean that every three months, two months, however fast it gets dirty, and that's a very difficult problem to solve where you need something to be easy where it's clean and it's taking in the full rays of the sun and it's interesting to hear those problems and I think there's that it's Squamish or Whistler-based company

trying to extract CO2 from the environment and carbon engineering. Yeah, it's just a fascinating area of kind of advancement and personally I think it's fascinating because we haven't figured out how to do it better than trees and it's so weird to think about that Like, we think we're so intelligent, and then you think about how the fact that a tree will disintegrate into nothing. It will take in all those solar rays disintegrate into nothing and not exist anymore.

And, like, we can't do that. Our solar panels, it's like, what do we do with this giant piece of metal afterwards? It's like, it's very weird when you think about, like, our limitations as people. It is weird and it's not weird in the sense that, yeah, nature figured this all out before we came here. Yeah. Right. But we can't, like, replicate it. Like, why can't, other than growing up?

a tree. It's like we can't replicate what it did, yet we can go, this is how a tree works. That's a really good point. Yeah, we know exactly how it works and yet can't do it like the same. Yeah. Um, yet. Absolutely. So do you think that there is like a community growing? Do you think that there's challenges facing this community in terms of technology in BC? Do you think that there are ways we could do a better job of supporting it, opening the doors saying PCs ready and our tech space? It's like we're just, we don't have that same Silicon Valley kind of vibe here. Or maybe we do and we don't know about it. But it just, it doesn't seem as well known.

Is there a way we can kind of unlock the potential here and max it out? It sounds like that's what you're working on by encouraging local entrepreneurs in different communities. But what do we need to do to kind of grow this space? Yeah, it's again, it's such an interesting question. And like this whole conversation that could be just around like the tech community and how to grow it. and what it's going through right now. I mean, when I think about the Vancouver Tech Trail and potential future tech journals,

like my goal is really to increase, like, the audience for like tech and innovation stories, right? So I want more people to be aware of like the potential of the sector and like, yeah, what is their role in it? How does it impact them? That's what I want to see, not just in Vancouver, but across the country. And in Vancouver,

And in Vancouver, it's interesting, most tech ecosystems around the world when they compare themselves to, like, where are the best tech communities? Of course, Silicon Valley, because it's like the OG that always comes up. A good friend of mine, Chris Newman, he works at a VC firm called Panash Ventures. He always says, actually, the better comparison for a place like BC and Vancouver is Austin, Texas, because the similar amount of people, right? Post-Secondering institutions, that sort of thing, right? And so he says, first of all, we need to, like, get rid of our obsession with Silicon Valley.

Let's compare ourselves to, like, a city of the same size or a community of the same size, which I always, I like, I like that idea that's like, oh, okay, like, what are we actually similar to, compare ourselves to that community? But Vancouver and BC, like, let's think about, like, what tech ecosystems need, right? So no shortage of ideas. No shortage of entrepreneur starting companies. what there is a shortage of is people so every company despite the fact that there were layoffs and I could get into the layoffs conversation every company is still basically hiring even the ones

that laid people off and then you also have large companies like Microsoft and Amazon that have like 5,000 job openings well Amazon does right and then Microsoft has thousands right so it's like there's not enough people right and then the other thing is related to people which is executive talent or specialized talent. So people that have grown a company from a million revenue to 20 million in revenue, from 20 million to revenue to 100 million of revenue. And you only get that when you have a mature sector, right? So in many ways, the Vancouver and BC Tech ecosystem is not even old enough to have people

that have worked at companies for 30 years, right? Like, it's not old enough. Like, there aren't that many people here. People need to move here to work at those companies. or we need to hire people from other places to work with our companies. And the interesting thing is that COVID forced a lot of companies to do that. So there's a local company here called Boast. They have software to help companies get R&D tax credits from the government.

So I'm a company and I've researched something and I've said $20,000 and I've hired this engineer. And the federal government will say, okay, great, we're going to give you 75% of that person's salary back. Boast is a software that'll basically make it really easy for you to do that. and they take a cut of it. But during the pandemic, boasts for it to grow, it had to hire four executives from like San Francisco,

from Chicago, from Boston. And they are people that have said like, oh, okay, you're doing 10 million. I've run a company

that's seeing $100 million in revenue. We're going to help you grow to that size. And that's like extremely, extremely valuable. And there aren't enough people in BC that have done that, that have grown large companies. it's changing, but they're still not enough.

And so that's like an area that like, I don't know. I don't know how you do it. Luckily again, people are hiring remote now. That's like more norm. Like people are hiring people in other cities. So like that's a big thing that's changing. And the other thing that's changing locally is that there are just more big companies. And like so the other thing that I didn't mention, which is that in order for an ecosystem to succeed,

to need capital, in many cases, access to capital. And so when I moved here, even just seven years ago, So I moved here in 2015, from Ottawa. The conversation was always around. There's not enough in venture capital or companies can't raise money to invest and grow and hire people. That was a big conversation. It was such a big conversation that Christy Clark, when she was mayor, mayor, premier. I could never see her being a mayor.

When she was premier, she created this thing called the BC Tech Fund, which was $100 million, meant to invest into tech companies. So they had access to capital, and they would stay here and skill their companies. Good policy decision? So it's funny. Someone asked me this recently, and I said, how much have you heard about the outcomes from that fund recently? And they said, nothing. And I said, that tells you probably what the outcomes were. The fact that we have not heard about it since, right?

Because if I worked in government and communications, if there were some good news to share, I was sharing it. So we haven't heard anything about that recently. So that might tell you a little bit about... the outcomes. Can you tell us a little bit about venture capital mixed in with that and how that plays a role? Oh, sure. Yeah, absolutely. Let me get my points organized. Oh, yeah, I got my points. Okay, so I want to finish the point about capital. So when I first moved here, yeah, venture capital was like, oh, there's not enough venture capital. Right? It's like, oh, okay, so that's why we had the $100 million VC tech fund. But now that is not part of the conversation.

And so what's changed is that B.C. companies have been able to attract significant investment from investors, not necessarily from here, but from around the world and other places. Right. So I'm sure you've heard that last year there were, I think there were maybe 13 unicorns, which is a company that's valued over a billion dollars. Right. So I have not heard that, but okay. Yeah. So in the tech world, a private company valued over a billion dollars is called a unicorn. And so examples of unicorns. are a company called Cleo. It's a legal tech company. They're valued at over $2 billion, and they do over $100 million in annual revenue. An amazing company led by Jack Newton. There's a company Nexi. They're like construction technology. They've got a manufacturing facility in Squamish. One of their executive, their executive vice president is Gregor Robertson, former mayor. A lot of people know him. Really interesting guy, obviously. Again, they're valued over $2 billion. And they get these valuations from investors that give them money.

They say, I'm going to give you $45 million, which values you at X amount of money, right? That's an example. Semios I mentioned earlier, Michael Gilbert. They're the Agritech company that pulls together all this data and sensors for a farmer's dashboard. They're another company that's worth over a billion dollars and based off of money that they've raised and companies they've acquired. What's another company on that list? Oh, Dapper Labs.

It's perhaps well known or most well known for MBA top shot, which are NFTs of like NBA highlight clips. I'm sure if you've heard of them. There are worth like $9 billion. Like it's been outrageous, but like they've raised hundreds of millions of venture capital dollars. And so these firms value them at this amount of money. So sorry, to close the loop on that. When I moved here, the complaint was there's not. enough money for companies. That is not a complaint anymore. All the good companies have lots of

money. Investors are pouring money into all these companies. That's not a problem. All right, venture capital. So the way VC works is that, so I'm a startup and I, in growing fast, but in order to grow faster to hire salespeople or to hire engineers, I need more money than I'm bringing in necessarily, right? And so VC says, okay, like, you're going to this pace, we're going to give you $25 million, and we're going to value you at $100 million post money, which means that, like, after we've put this $25 million into your company, you're valued at $100 million, and I use that example because it's simple math, and we own 25% of your company now, right?

Because you're valued at $100 million, and we've given you $25 million, right? And the expectation is that you will go in like, you know, 10 years from now, you're going to be valued like 10 times out of money. So we're going to get 10 times our investment back. Right. So that's all it is, right? And VCs, they don't invest their own money. They have a bunch of other rich people called LPs Limited Partners. They've given them their money and then they go invested in startups, right?

And so there was a long period, like when I first moved here, what was like there's not enough capital for companies. like investors are not investing enough in companies, but I don't hear that anymore. Like last year, Canadian companies, and in particular, I think they raised $14.2 billion. That amount has gone down this year as like the markets have cooled, but like no one has having any trouble raising money if you're a good company, essentially. What is the relationship between a VC and because my understanding is that oftentimes venture capital firms get involved in the nitty-gritty. They kind of go, we've put $25 million in you.

We expect to have some level of involvement. Is there cases where they're very involved? I've heard horrible things about VC markets. One person I've enjoyed listening to is Chamath Palahapitia. And I find him really fascinating because he talks about how it's an old boys club. There's these issues with it. There's these challenges with it. The people holding the money are very picky on who they choose.

They don't want big risks. His whole idea, I forget what he calls his new kind of idea where he's going to bring capital together and try and fix long problems. Problems we won't fix over the next two years, three years, five years, ten years. The problems of like, he made a comment like over the, you don't think somebody who finds a solution to like climate change is a billion dollar, like a trillion dollar company. it's like absolutely but we don't have the kind of patience to wait that out we're looking for returns five years 10 years so we we limit ourselves to thinking going if somebody was able to fix this problem though it would be so beneficial for the next hundred years and so that's from my understanding his mindset i'm just interested in your thoughts on venture capital

maybe shamath's comments well so again it depends on who you talk to and the the unfortunate thing And this is really an area where the sector can be improved is that there are entrepreneurs that have had relationships with venture capitalists that have not been positive. However, it's such a small world that many entrepreneurs you talk to are not going to come out and publicly say, like, this fund or these VCs are terrible people. Because if you did that, then all the other VCs are going to say, like, oh, I'm going to work with his entrepreneur. He's going to call us out if we do something he doesn't like. And so I've had conversations with local startup founders that have had negative experiences

with investors that have invested in them, but then maybe have disrespected the leaders of the company and have tried to exert, yeah, like, you know, influence that like was not warranted. And, you know, these entrepreneurs have had bad experiences. But as an entrepreneur, you're in a very tough position where it's like you probably can't go to, talk about this because then you are now a red flag for other potential investors and you don't want to reduce your chances of getting

future investment capital. And actually, the best example of this is the fact that you probably can't read about this anywhere, which tells you that like it's all hush, right? Like top 10 best VCs in Canada or North America? Like you can't write that story.

Well, no, no, you can't, you're not going to, you're not going to, there is an eerily lack of articles about entrepreneurs having bad experiences with VCs. That's what I'm saying. You're not going to read that anywhere because no one will go on the record and say, this is a terrible VC, for example, right? But the other thing on investment dollars and private capital that really needs to be

discussed actually is the fact that similar to like, you know, engineers and organization in Canada and the U.S., like, you know, 3% of all VC money goes to like female entrepreneurs. You know, 1% of all VC money goes to like founders of color, right? Like that's like, those are like bigger issues. It's basically the same in every ecosystem, right? And fortunately, you're seeing that change because there are different funds popping up that specifically are for these different underrepresented communities.

So in Canada, a really cool, in my opinion, cool, of investors is called Backbone Angels. And it's made up of, interestingly, exclusively former Shopify or some current Shopify female and BiPoc executives, right? So there's a group of, I want to say there's 12 of them. They all worked at Shopify really early on. They're all executives. They all made like millions of dollars.

And so they're specifically pooling their money and just investing in basically women and people of color. Right. So funds like that are now slowly changing the sort of ratio of money going to like traditionally marginalized communities versus just like what people think of when they see an entrepreneur, which is mostly just like white guys. Right. So that that world is slowly changing. And I find that really, really fascinating. Absolutely. I think it's important for people to be able to see themselves wherever they're from, their background represented in the group so that they can go, if that person can do it, like, you don't, it's hard to quantify the difference someone like Oprah can make in a society, like that the change in perception. And then it becomes normalized. And then we don't look to her the same way maybe we used to. But like seeing people who take a leadership role within like a BC context, it's often been

Stephen Point or Jody Wilson Raybold, who's been like these outlier individuals who kind of they broke the mold, they did something other people haven't really done in the past. And then a whole generation of young people go like, maybe that's. could be me. I think we like to downplay that a lot of the time, but I think it plays a huge role of people rethinking what it means for their future or who they want to go become. Oh, absolutely. And like, I don't actually ever think of myself in like that mix, but people have come up to me and said, like, oh, I love that you are the one that's kind of like the head of this tech journal. That's really cool because you're a black guy, right? Then I was like,

Like, oh, okay, like, I don't, it's not, like, that's not how I identify myself, but it's cool that you think that. Like, James wrote an article about a guy named Charles Kishi, um, who's an immigrant from Rwanda. And, uh, he came up to me and in a band and was like, dude, like, it's just so cool that, like, he's like, you're another brother and you're in charge of this thing and you made all this happen. Like, it's cool to see that.

And I thought like, oh, that's cool. Like, I appreciate that comment. And sometimes I forget that, yeah, like, you know, what people see and, um, like, that's really important, right? Yeah. Yeah. how they relate to you and it's not necessarily like I don't go around and think I'm an indigenous. This is my indigenous perspective and I don't always love people being like, well, tell us the indigenous because I'm like, I'm just a person.

I have my perspective, but it's not like rooted in some sort of like stereotypical perspective. But it is helpful for other people to go, you know what, if you can do it, maybe I can too. And that's, that's all you need to kind of get started is to believe that it's not crazy. Yeah. So I'm interested to understand a little bit about your personal background. You just had a birthday, and you talked a little bit on Twitter, which I consider a public place, about how you arrive to Canada. Can you share a little bit of that story? Yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's pretty cool, actually, in my opinion. And I don't always talk about it, but when you think about it, it's like, yeah, it's kind of crazy.

Right. So I was adopted from Jamaica. And, yeah, recently on Twitter, I posted the suite saying, like, August 9th, this is my mom calls, like, our special day. So August 9th is when I was adopted from Kingston, Jamaica in 1990, right? And so, yeah, I was born in Kingston, Jamaica. And this is the crazy bit, which I think I'll, like, write in a prologue if I ever write a book or something like that, which is that I was, like, left. This is, like, from a movie. I was, like, left in a basket at the police station in Kingston, Jamaica. So, like, a cop found me, like, abandoned, like, little note, right?

And they were like, okay, like, we have a baby now, like, this is the police station, right? And so in Kingston, actually, this place called Payne Avenue. Like, you can look it up, like, it's, like, very dangerous spot in Kingston. King's not a safe city. Anyway, and they named me Lawrence Dixon, which was after the cop that found me in Kingston, Jamaica. And, like, if you look at, like, my, like, social services paperwork, it's like, Lawrence was found at like 204 on Payne Avenue, which is crazy to think about, right?

Anyway, I was adopted by Linda Johnson, my mom, and she's like a legend. How is she a legend? Wow, just like, so she adopted me, but from Kings and Jamaica, and she adopted my older brother Timothy from St. Vincent, it's near Barbados, another little island, and then I have a younger brother, Andrew, from Scarborough, and I always tell him he's not that interesting because it's Canada.

Right. But anyway, so three boys, all black. Well, Andrews mixed. And single mom. And she's white. White single mom in a little like farming community, adopted three black kids. And that's why she's a legend. And somehow racist and like we're, you know, all have like a good head on our shoulders. So yeah. Yeah. So that's what happened. That's what that tweet was about. So I came here. August 9th, 1990, raised in Winchester, Ontario. And I always still really fortunate. Like, I just had, like, a great life. Like, yeah, raised by my mom, Linda, and babysat lots by her best friend, Jan, and my grandmother, Evelyn, Dorothy. And so I had, like, a great childhood. It was a really small community, like, 5,000 people. Like, I played hockey.

I was, you know, I volunteered. Like, my mom was a nurse for 40 years. And she eventually ran the oncology unit in the hospital in that area. And so I think I benefited from the fact that she was quite well-known. Like, everyone in the community knew her. And we were, like, the only colored people in the town, me and my brother. So, like, in many ways that probably helped me because I could not get into any trouble because everyone knew me. Like, we were automatically the most, we were more popular than, like, the mayor.

Because you could not not know the Johnson boys because there were three of us and we were the only not white people. So that I would think that like that kept me ahead of trouble. Couldn't get into trouble because it was too obvious who I was. Yeah, I had a great upbringing. Yeah, played hockey, sports, everything, went to university in Ottawa, I went to Carlton University. Yeah. And yeah, just like I had a great upbringing where actually it's funny. This goes back to it, like, we just were talking about, like, being a black person, being an indigenous person.

Like, that was, like, never my identity. And I actually, even recently, I wrote this, like, personal lessee for the global male few years back, where I was, like, like, no one ever, like, treated me differently or anything like that. And so that never actually became part of, like, something I actually identified, like, really strongly with. For better or for worse, I don't know. Like, maybe, like, it would have been better if I was. like identified more with that part of like my heritage but it just wasn't something I thought about a lot um and growing up like I could always do anything I wanted like my mother never said

like you're going to be treated differently because you're black like never heard any of that and so I didn't pay much attention to it and because people always ask like oh like is anything like you ever if you ever experienced racism or anything like that I always say like maybe I have But since I am so, like, since I don't think about it, like, it made me like no red flag went off or anything. Like, maybe I was on the bus and someone didn't sit next to me. And then it's like, well, I don't really think about that. Like, I thought I listen to my podcast. So I just don't notice that type of stuff as much as maybe some other people have.

Like, if you were in a different city or in a different setting or you grew up with a different upbringing where you were told different things about the world. So I find that stuff really interesting to think about. I agree. I feel the same way where I don't, I can't remember a time where being indigenous ever acted as a barrier. In fact, more recently, it seems like it's been, they, my community helped pay for my education. They opened doors. It's led to better opportunities. But I'm always just like thinking that it's based on my color or race seems like it's like a very, very last resort.

Like if I were to go there, I would want to think maybe I was being a jerk, maybe I was misreading. it made like I'm going to go to those spots before I resort to that kind of level of analysis because it it seems like a dangerous kind of level of analysis to start with if you're just going to be like maybe they did it because they hate me and they think that my skin color and that I'm like a dirty native or something terrible it's like that doesn't seem like a fair place to start with people if you're having that kind of conversation yeah I agree I just that that would that would absolutely be the last thing I would think if like I didn't get some opportunity or something like that, right? And like, yeah, like, so I grew up in a little town.

I played hockey and was pretty good for the little town. You know what I mean? I went to university, always had great opportunities, had a blast in university, got good jobs, had good friends, networked. They did all this, all this stuff. Graduated, um, and worked a few jobs. Then I got, then I ended up actually going back to Carlton to work for five years. And I threw out all that, it's like, I don't know, I've worked hard and then I got to do things I wanted to do. And this is also why I would say, like, oh, anyone can do stuff because I just feel like I've always just worked hard and then figured stuff out. And, yeah, I'm just trying to think. Like, it's just, yeah, I guess being like black has not been like a huge part of my identity because I don't know.

That's just not how people have like, like other people very rare. earlier like it's funny it's only black people actually that have come up to me and be like oh you're black like that's great I'm like okay like no one else says that so you didn't mean how how did learning about like your background when did you learn about that was that a challenge to find out that story or was that like a cool story it seems like oh no it's very cool to me which again made me strange but the craziest thing was is that like I don't remember finding out like I was adopted or anything like that like but it was like very obvious growing up like my mom super white. And it was, actually, a couple of funny stories before I, like, actually found out

about the whole, like, basket thing. I played hockey all my life, right? And so, well, not on my life, sorry, to university. And we'd go to these hockey tournaments. And they'd be, like, in the U.S. And this is before, like, you had passports. Like, you didn't need a passport across the border. So all we had was, like, my, like, little citizenship card where I was, like, a baby. And so my mom would be driving me and my brother was across the border. And so, you have to remember, we're crossing the border and it's this white woman and three black is in the back. And they'd be like, what's going on here?

And she'd like, oh, we're just going to hockey tournament. And they'd be like, huh. And they'd search everything because they didn't believe us probably. They just think this is super weird. And then like, yeah, we'd have hockey bags and stuff. And then, like, there'd be like people on our team in the vehicle before us and after us, right at least. So then they could be like, okay, like, you're part of this hockey team that's going to this

tournament in aquasasasany or something like that, right? And so I always thought that was hilarious, right? Getting stopped and then it was always fine, obviously, right? And so there are obviously a lot of stuff like that where people would be like, or we'd go somewhere and people would be like, I was obviously her son and people would be like, like, what is the relationship? You know, it's my son. They'd be like, but like the world has moved a lot now, right?

Like it's not like crazy for like different races to be in the same family. But like, I guess like, so I'm 30. before, right? So I guess 32 years ago, actually, yeah, things have changed a lot. Like, 30 years ago, it was like very strange, I think, for a lot of people that had a hard time with that, right? But not now. But actually, when I actually found out about the, like, basket story and the, like, finding me, like, on the street was crazy because it was in first year of university. Like, I didn't know that detailed story until I was doing this project. And I was like, Mom, just, like, scan all my documents and just, like, send them to

me. She didn't even think of this. She just scanned a bunch of documents and was like, here, like, write your essay, whatever you're going on. And then I like read through all the documents and was like, whoa, like, I didn't know this was the story. Right. And she's like, oh, like, sorry, I didn't, just didn't think of it. Right? And so like, yeah, it's like all written. Like a social worker had like typed out what happened. And so I like came across the document doing some research in my first year of university. That was fall 2006. So how did your mother find out about you? Like, how did the Jamaica-Canada connection?

Well, she was like, like, it's very strange. This is such a strange story, but it also is interesting. So I always bug her. Like, her and a bunch of other white women, I don't know that was a weird thing, adopted a bunch of Caribbean kids. And, like, and actually, it's a good story and a sad story in that not all the kids are doing as well, I guess, as I'm doing.

But I always say that's like a testament to how, that's why I call my mom a legend. And that like, out of the cohort, it's actually a very good sociological or sociological case study in that like 10 kids were adopted from different Caribbean islands around the same time. And then by white mothers

and we're all doing like pretty differently actually. So I was, and like somebody used to study this. Anyway, anyway, she dealt with like a social worker and someone who like helps like people like adopt children. And the really cool thing was that there's a woman named Dawn from Jamaica that was like the one that helped my mom get me. And my mom and I went back to Jamaica in, I want to say 2014. And the last time Dawn had seen me was when I was a baby. So I mean, I don't, I didn't remember her. But she remembered me, right?

So it was crazier for her than me. I was just like, oh, hey, I was like, I'm an adult now. Like, I'm doing well, which is great. Thanks for your help. But for her, it was more exciting. That's incredible. So let's do the sociological question. If you had to attribute what your mother did for you, what would be the things you think stand

out to you as like the, this is what helped. This is what made me feel supported. This is maybe what other people missed out on that my mother had. Well, let's first say, like, it's hard to comment on other people, but I can absolutely comment on, like, my experience, right? Which is, there's a very famous study. I forget who did it, but it's where, like, you've got these two sets of students, and the teachers are told, like, these are the high performers and these are the low performers. And teachers are told that. It's false.

It's actually the reverse. But what ends up happening is by the end of the term, the ones that are the ones that, you know, the teachers were told are like the high performers were the high performers and the ones that teachers were told were the low performers

ended up being low performers and what really dictated how they fared was how the teachers treated them and so I think that my mother always just like

treated me like I could do anything that I was going to do well and I was going to be successful and I've always had like that positive like attitude and energy

and it's so funny because she would say like Will you're really like, you're too confident or you're overly confident. And I'd be like, well, where did you think I got that from? Right. Like, literally it wasn't a father. Right.

So it could only have been you. Right. So I think that is just been pretty critical. Like, I just, I grew up thinking, like, I can do the things I want to do. And, like, Jan and my grandma, also legends. Like, they just, I don't know. Like, I just was always supportive. growing up and I don't know I'm the middle child and um I feel like middle

childs are supposed to feel like neglected or something like that like we're supposed to have an issue but I definitely didn't how much do you think that impacts because you're almost in the line of work of encouraging other people that's basically what you do zoom out on whether it's tech or whatever it is but you're really taking people who have potential talking to them and sharing their story and saying look at the potential of this person, which it sounds like very much the experience you had, which is like you have so much potential, just go out and figure out where you want to take that. I never thought of it that way, but you're totally right in a sense, right? And that's why

I think, you asked me earlier if I was optimistic. I would say I am just because I've seen a lot and also been through a lot. And I just think, like, well, why couldn't you do this thing? Like, that's just my attitude to everything. Like, well, why couldn't this work out? why couldn't you experiment with this and succeed? That's how I've always viewed myself. Like, oh, why couldn't I try this thing? And so that's how I see everyone else. Like, even then people pitch me ideas and I'm like,

is this really a thing? But it's like, oh, what it could be? Why not? Why couldn't this be a successful product or a rap idea or a business? I definitely see it that way. And through my different jobs, right? Like, at the beginning, I talked to a lot about bringing people together and bringing communities together, right?

So I studied at Carlton while I was a student, I worked at Carlton, I left, I worked a couple other jobs. I ended up back at Carlton working on some communications related stuff, but then also some student development related stuff, which was awesome. And so a lot of that work was like conversations with like students and emerging leaders and like, what do you want to do with your life? And like, I'm very used to being in conversations with people where I'm saying like, yeah, like, of course you can do this. Why wouldn't you do that? Like, what are the tools you need? Like, let me help you. Let me connect you to the tools or the resources, the people that you need for support.

So you can succeed and achieve more. And so that's been part of like my work in one way or another for when I graduate. I graduated university in 2010. But I was doing this time stuff before then. But yeah, it's wild to think back now. It's been over a decade. Yeah, there was somebody on your LinkedIn who made a comment about how you have a knack for seeing people understanding sort of their mindset. I can't believe that comment is still there, eh?

Wow. That's funny. So I went to high school with that girl. And you're right, eh, that's, I think that's over a decade ago that comment. But I think really that just speaks to like, yeah, like curiosity and like what makes people tick and how can I help be part of that. journey and like I've always had that I feel like yeah putting on my interview had of like asking what makes how you approach your interviews I'm just interested in like because there would be a huge difference between you interviewing someone and someone who maybe had an idea and failed miserably

like that's the the antithesis I think of you is somebody who's bitter about their place in life and and demotivated and then they go meet with the entrepreneur and they go why do you think you could do this. But coming in to meet with an entrepreneur who's maybe not 100% sure of themselves, that person can discourage them and make them feel like they could never go do those things and act as a barrier, even though they're just a journalist. They're just asking questions. The mindset that you bring seems that of someone who would encourage and at least help the person see things clearer. So I'm just interested, how do you approach those interviews? What is your kind of, how do you choose a person? How do you develop those questions? What

is that interaction like for you? Yeah, that's interesting to think about it. So I'm very much someone who, I ask why a lot. At the same time, I'm very much a person that says, well, have you also thought of this? Like, here is another approach that maybe you haven't taken. And then the other way I'd say is, I'm actually not into improv, but I know this thing in improv where people say yes and like you sort of like take what they've given you and then you like continue it on so someone will say like oh and then we were thinking of doing this and then are you going to do this with this is this like where you're taking it so I'm very much just open to ideas in that sense whenever I'm thinking about like who I'm going to talk to and actually it's it's good that

you ask that because I actually interview far fewer people than I used to because I've got like the team now and I'm working on more like partnerships related stuff with the business but Yeah, again, for me, it's, like, always, like, the story and thinking, like, yeah, like, it's the same answer as before, which is I'm always like, oh, who's this person? Like, is there an interesting story that I can get? Like, what's, like, the nugget of insight that this person will have uniquely that we can, like, tell the rest of the world and share? Yeah. If you've listened to the documentaries, you've heard from the people that you admire, who's your white whale? Who is the person we can call them, get them on the phone?

and you can go meet with them in person, who is that person you'd love to have that interview with? Alive or dead, who is the person you would like to ask some questions? Is this like tech people? Like Elon or? No, because your mindset is not limited to the tech space. I don't want to reduce you to that because you basically said that journey fascinates you.

So who's your white whale? So another issue I have is that it's like, oh, how do I just choose one? But I'll give you, how about I give you two? Sure. One of these people is Walter Isaacson. So Walter Isaacson is many things. But I was introduced to him because he wrote a bio of Steve Jobs.

He wrote a bio of Benjamin Franklin. He wrote a bio of Einstein. So people like that. But he also was the CEO of CNN at one point. He also was the editor of Time magazine at one point. So he is, oh, and he was also the president of the Aspen Institute for ideas. So this is a writer, but also an organizational leader. And so that's sort of what I've always teed myself in.

Like, I've managed people and led teams, but I've also been a writer. So I've always thought, well, that's, like, really interesting, like creatives who are also, like, operators. Like, that's an interesting individual, and I've always wanted to be more effective in that. And then another person that, actually, two more people, quick. I'll do too quick. Another person is Tom Ford. He is a fashion designer. And I'm not into fashion necessarily, but I'm into everything.

And he's interesting in that he, like, saved Gucci. That's one thing. But the other thing is that he also directs films, right? So I just like anyone who... Sorry, how did he save Gucci? When Gucci was, like, losing mine. Have you watched the movie House of Gucci? No.

Who's in it? Lady Gaka is in it, and who's Adam Driver, your diver? Very good movie. Anyway, Gucci was, like, going under, and then he came and, like, redesigned everything and saved, like, the brand. It's more in depth than that, but, like, you should check it out. Anyway, and he was, like, a young, like, up-and-coming designer that they came to, like, they came to save the brand. But he's also, like, a film director and does, like, multiple other things. And, again, I just, like, people who are, like, well, I'm not just a designer.

I also do this other stuff. And another example of that, which is why I would choose this person over, like, well, hold on a second. The caveat is like Barack Obama is number one. But forget him. That's obvious. The last one is Eric Good. Why is Eric Good interesting?

Just look him up. He is the guy who created and directed the Tiger King series that everyone watched like during early pandemic, right? Right? But he also owns like an art gallery. he co-owns the Waverlyian which is a nice restaurant in West Village um yeah Drex Films

so he's just another individual that um has multiple creative endeavors and somehow manages to pull them all off and I love that idea yeah those are really good choices and just offers an insight into who you see is interesting um is there any specific questions you'd have for any of them that stand out to you that you're like if I could get this question answered

Yeah, like, this is where it's like, this is less interesting. I'd have very practical questions. Like, how do you structure your day? Right. Because I want to know at what point in the day should I be like expending my like creative energy? And then like, what are the things that whenever you're like totally gassed, what should I be doing then? Like is that when I should be doing like email, right? Like or like at what point in the day should I like split these things up?

Like Walter Isaacson famously, he'll like start writing writing it like nine. p.m. And he'll write to like 2 a.m. And I'm like, that's crazy. Like, I go to bed at like 9.30. Right. So it's like, so it's like I want to learn like very practical things about like how do you get the most out of yourself every day, especially when you're juggling all these different things. Yeah. That is very insightful. And I think those tools when we can hear from really successful people like Kevin Hart, I think has an insane schedule in terms of like doing movies. I think Dwayne the Rock Johnson does something similar where it's like movie developing comedy writing doing an audio book like just so much on the go every day that it's like how do you how do you manage that how do you keep the passion the excitement the energy going

through such a long period of time without kind of going i don't really care about this i just want to go home and take a nap like how do you keep that fuel and i think that those people remind us that we like and i'm sure you deal with this people being like i'm busy and it's like are you that busy though. Like there are people with real schedules cranking out like 7 a.m. to 10 p.m. days. And then there's people doing 9 to 5s and not working that hard on Twitter or Instagram scrolling all day long and saying like, well, I'm busy. I don't have the time. It's like, you do. You just, you have to rework how you're approaching things and figuring out how people keep that fuel, I think is just so fascinating. Yeah. And like to that point, right? Like really what you spend

your time doing is the biggest indication of what you find important, right? So, like, are you scheduling that time in? Or are you not? There's a guy from Ottawa named Shane Parrish, and I think I've quoted him on, like, a blog somewhere where he basically just says, don't tell me your goals, show me your schedule, right? Because that will show it, right? That is a really good line. That is like, that should be up on signs. Like, that's, because that's the one thing I hear around religious people a lot, which is people will say that they're religious, and then the common trope is like, well, how do you behave the rest of the six days of the week, and it's not reflective?

And then people who say they aren't religious will follow certain, like, I think it's more acted out, which is like, are you grateful for your food? Do you show that you're grateful for your food? Are you appreciative of that? That, to me, is like, it's not religious to, like, one religious organization, but it's religious in the sense you do it religiously, which is the core term of that. And so being grateful, showing gratitude, being polite, these are all acts of, like, having a belief that treating people well is a good investment in how you operate.

And so that is more the mindset that I think you should bring, which is how do people act rather than what do they say they believe, because there's often a huge disconnect between what you say you believe and how you actually behave. 100%. Yeah. Can you tell people how they can connect with the Vancouver Tech Journal. yourself? Yeah, so the Vancouver Tech Journal, simple, www. www. Vantecjournal.com. And I think the best place to follow us is probably on Twitter, so at Van Tech Journal. Or search us on LinkedIn, Vancouver Tech

Journal. Those are the best places to look, or on everything else, but those are the best ones where you're going to get the most value, I think. For me, I'm on Twitter at Notion Port. It's funny, you didn't ask me what that means. Notion Port is very simply like, think of an airport or a port where goods and services come in. But think of it as a place where, like, ideas come and go or ideas and stories come and go. So that's where Notionport came from. I thought of that, like, I think a decade ago. I was going to ask if you didn't answer it there.

Oh, okay, there you go, right? So at Notionport. And so that's Twitter, like, didn't Instagram. It's the same everywhere. I always use the same handle. And those are probably the best places to find me. Man, this has been such a blast to be able to hear from your perspective, those movers and shakers in the space. Again, I just, I love humbling myself and hearing about what's going on in the world.

And it was really inspiring to hear that it's not just technology, it's not just the new iOS 20 or whatever it is now that fascinates you. It's the people behind it because I think that's how I feel about the podcast is being able to hear people's journeys and where they face that rock and how they overcame that. that's what makes people interesting to me. It's not, oh, now you're worth 10 million and like, whatever it is. It's like, how did you get to where you are? What was that journey like? How can I, when I face my rock, approach it in a similar way? What can I learn from their story?

And that's very much how I feel about you, but also the people that you've highlighted throughout this conversation. And I feel like I have a better understanding of the technological world in which BC lives in today. So I just am so grateful to have been able to talk to you. I find you very insightful. And it's just been a blast. Hey, thanks for having me on the show. This was a ton of fun.

Honestly, it feels like five minutes, but then also two days. So, I don't know. It was fast and quick. We're two hours and 45 minutes. No way. Wow. Okay, well, it was a blast. So thanks for having me on the show.

To be clear, you thought you couldn't do, what was it? I was like, there's no chance I can do more than 90 minutes. And so, I mean, you know your guests better than we know ourselves, I think. Well, it's been such a pleasure. Go check them out. It's been so interesting. I'm following Vancouver Tech Journal. I've already enjoyed subscribing and learning more about the people who were going on.

One of them is the person who invented, what is it called, Club Penguin? And that guy, that guy's journey. Lane-Marifield. Yes, if you want to learn more about that, you've got to go subscribe. You've got to go check out that full story because I found him very interesting and you guys did a great job of reporting on him. So go check him out, follow him on Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram. And thank you again for taking the trip out. Thank you.

Thank you.