Nuanced. - 76. Mathew Point: First Nation Housing On-Reserve

Episode Date: September 19, 2022

Mathew Point and Aaron Pete sit down to discuss his business Creek Cedar Construction. Mr. Point believes in building up capacity of his employees, supporting their personal/professional development, and reinvesting in First Nation communities. Aaron and Mathew talk about National Truth & Reconciliation Day, careers in trades, housing in Indigenous communities, sobriety and First Nation economies. Mathew grew up on Seabird Island, working periodically with various trade industries before graduating high school. He attended the University of the Fraser Valley (UFV) over several years periodically mostly focused on sciences. He dropped out after not being able to focus on his studies. He battled addiction over the years until he committed to his sobriety in 2019. From there, he focused his energy on recovery and his career. Mathew worked with Stqoya Construction on Seabird Island, climbed the ranks and quickly became the foreman. Shortly after, Mathew chose to focus his energy on politics within Seabird Island Band. He split his time between council work and to help a former employer develop a new company called Tuya. Mathew saw this company go from a 3 man crew to a multimillion dollar company in 2 years, and felt the urge to start his own business. Mathew resigned from his position on council and put his energy and focus into Creek Cedar Contracting. His business focuses on providing employment, mentorship and services to First Nation people and First Nation communities in the lower-mainland. Learn more about Cedar Creek Construction: https://www.creekcedar.com/Send us a textThe "What's Going On?" PodcastThink casual, relatable discussions like you'd overhear in a barbershop....Listen on: Apple Podcasts   SpotifySupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

Okay, my name is Matthew Point. My traditional name is Prantuckus. That was given to me from my aunties on my mother's side. It is Thompson River. Originally, my grandma B left a list of names for her family and then they kind of, after her passing, they kind of just made decisions about who was getting what. I'm from Siebert Island. I grew up there, periodically moved around Chiluac. My dad's from Chilac. Squyala, he where he's grew up. He's also families from Skokale as well from point side. So my mother is from the Harris family as well as the Hope side in Yale and Seabird Island. So I guess it kind of bounced around both sides of the family, but mostly seabird is where I'm from. Interesting. And how did you get involved in the work that you do today? You

started a business i'm fascinated by it yeah well so that was a i guess it's it wasn't ever really planned to the detail that i'm doing it other than recently so i mean it's not like i had a goal you know growing up saying that i was you know going to run a construction company one day um i guess just i've always had an act for recognizing abilities um you know even in any younger years of when I was working in school and I was kind of mentoring and tutoring my friends and whatnot in different subjects, I realized that they needed to be explained things differently, right? Because I had, maybe much like yourself, I kind of was able to pick up material and information from the school system kind of what was expected of me, right?

And so I was able to compete with the other students and kind of like, actually, going to school, mostly off reserve, I had to kind of fit in there as best I could, right? Being from Siebert Island, going to school in Agassi, right? There's a cultural barrier kind of thing, right? So when I started, you know, actually being able to excel in those areas and subjects, I found myself very competitive, but also realizing some of my friends didn't have the same ability. So I started kind of, you know, even as early as just trying to teach my kids. I'm sorry, my friends how to tie their shoes. You know, it was just like, you know what I mean?

There was a way that everybody learns it, and then there's a specific way that other people kind of find information. So I kind of always kind of wanted to be that middleman, right? I wanted to, you know, help my friends learn the material their own way, right? Because I think in a lot of ways that are people need to be explained differently. Yeah. Right. So I guess, so when I started the company, I realized that,

You know, a lot of my friends kind of like, they had, they had some certain barriers to excel in trades and different occupations. And I really wanted to kind of give an atmosphere of security, right, saying, like, here, this is what we're trying out. This is what we want to do. We want to build houses. We want to do this other stuff. Let's create a safe environment for you to learn, right? Or actually, you know, express yourself is probably a better word. So I guess it all kind of

It starts from my kind of my desire to kind of give opportunities to people that I grew up with Because you know I grew up with friends that are you know struggling in certain areas for various reasons And couldn't apply themselves right if they They wanted to get a certain job or however right there was a lot of It just wasn't as easy for them I guess in different ways in terms of Things weren't explained them properly, right? I guess in terms of what was acceptable in other ways. So when I got into the occupation trades and all that of the stuff, like it was, it wasn't by choice. I mean,

my family members were in my dad was a roof room. My brother was in construction. And I just kind of like did it in between going to school. So there wasn't a whole lot of history of me really trying to strive for these things. It was very recent. So starting a company, geared towards First Nations, geared towards building homes for First Nations, employing First Nations. It was more or less a pipe dream in a sense, but I knew that I had an act for recognizing abilities, like I said, and I really strongly believe that our people could actually excel in these areas, be profitable, be sort of multi-skilled, but they just needed the atmosphere

and able to achieve these things and actually somebody to kind of just organize it for them. yeah right so um it kind of it all sort of started back and forth from you know my earlier days to what i recognized from my experience in different areas different trades right and so again it it's it's more complicated than than i kind of lead it to be as like i'm going to start something and then hopefully it's going to work right it's and again when we started talking about my company it was more or less like we were it was it was hard to explain what i'm going for all right because you know when you have a business you know you know people's ideas that it's going to

it has to be profitable and yes it does right but you also wanted to have impact right with most people do right like what you're doing here you're just striving to make a difference right and in simple terms because you are obviously getting on the information together it takes a lot of skill

a lot of organization right like you're setting up the cameras you have to learn how to do that and you know and learning all these editorial things right like it's it's more complicated than you think it is at first right but it's to be expected when you start something I think but yeah I think I kind of went off for that question but I think I don't know what I'm doing half the time in a sense like okay what am I trying to do which means it's just not defined yet

I think when we start something it's really kind of just takes off on its own yeah your ethos is so different than most construction companies contracting companies the mindset is typically in those industries make money whereas when you hear about certain tourism businesses I wear a lot tentry the ethos often matters when you're shopping when you're buying a product when you're going into the grocery store and you see oh there's this item um you start to think hmm like where is this sourced is it sourced ethically can can we have a positive impact on this like that is very common in other regards but it's less common in construction companies it's less common in multi-million dollar companies it's like there's less pressure on them so the fact that you were

willing to take this on and say, how can I do this where I'm not just hiring the bottom of the barrel people, pushing them as much as I can, criticizing them, firing them. I've worked at like landscaping companies, which are somewhat different, but often the mindset is we don't invest anything into you until a year in because then you're through your probationary phase in that kind of company culture. And yours is very different, which is I'm going to try and find the diamonds in the rough almost. I'm going to try and find those great people who just need time, support, and opportunity. And it's so easy, especially right now, to write people off, to say, is it worth investing in new people? Should we downsize?

Is this worth my investment for this person? For you to say, I'm going to take people who haven't been given opportunities before or who have failed in other circumstances and invest in them is something I just find so refreshing. And again, something outside of what the industry norm, I would say is. Yeah, honestly, you hit it on the head there. I, um, it's, it's not a, it's not a perfect thing too. I think, um, I've had to, and I explained to my guys is like, my biggest investment is into you, uh, you know, the, the trucks, the equipment, all that other stuff, all those things that have built, the tools, like, that is replaceable, right? And then so when it comes to my guys, and like, I've spent time, energy, thought, all this other stuff,

hopefully that, you know, you're kind of growing a little bit, right? So, and in terms of, you know, I try not to put them in a situation where they'll fail, like 100%, but I know that that's always a possibility. I want to say, put them in a situation that's just a little bit too challenging for them. So they'll ask questions, right? And then so it's like to lean on each other. That dynamic to create that safe atmosphere is really hard because I guess this brings me back to the origins of my time and trade because I also had some years at Uffi as well

and a couple other experiences. But I always felt I had a lot of anxiety working for those construction companies, you know, framing companies, roofing companies. It was always like, you're either here, you're either doing this or you're not, right? Or, you know, there was a very low tolerance for what, you know, I was allowed to do or, you know, allowed to achieve. So there's a lot of pressure, right, in the masculine environment, right? It's just like, you know, you're either a man, you're not, right? And you've got very, a lot of shame and guilt for not coming up or coming up short or making mistakes. so now you're hiring guys who are kind of trained

very insecure right like don't want to make mistakes don't want to admit to the boss that they're going to be late like there's a lot of things a lot of dynamics there right so so I got a combination of those things and it's never perfect so it's I can't say that I think with any company you know you want your managers you want your laborers you want your you know your data input and so yeah you've got this

puzzles of people that you want around you you know so I want young guys a mixture of young guys, mentored with older guys, mentored with, you know, different supervisors that sort of understand the philosophy. And it's really hard to grasp, you know, for certain employees to grasp that philosophy because it's new. And it's like why, you know, because I've never heard it, right? They're never like, no, I'm here to invest in you. This is not, um, because it, you know, they're only used to hearing money, dollars and whatever, right? Figures like that, like, hey, we're going to make this, make this. And that's how you have to explain it to them

sometimes. I'm like, I need to fill up your time cards this way because it costs money if you don't you know and I have to say it like that because they're also just switch off when I say like no I want you guys to actually kind of input this so you guys are paying attention and you guys are actually having record of what you've done so you take that home with you I log that I read that right all the information is all important to me right it's an accumulation of data are you progressing are you paying more attention to this stuff are you taking pride in your work right are you saying are you documenting how long it took you to do one task and then almost in like two months down the road took half as much time to do

the same thing, right? So this is, these time books are like a record of development. They're like journal entries, you know what I mean? So a lot of guys are like, this is so stupid. Why do we have to write time books? Like, because there's a bigger picture here, right? I want to see what you guys are putting into the work, right? But also, again, you can go back and you could reflect on all the hours that you put in, all the tasks that you've done. And it's like it's sort of, you know, and then you have signatures on them. And it's, it's one, one facet of a bigger picture, right? And so you have to engrave these little things that these little structures inside of the company that make it much more valuable, right? So, and it's not so much like, and again, I always have to bring it back to money or else they won't pay attention. Like, no, I'm developing these systems in order for you to kind of like, you know, regulate where you're going because everybody I feel, especially even men in our culture and our communities need to feel like they're making a difference. We need to feel like they're actually, you know, serving their, their masculine duties, right? Kind of thing. So, Um, and it's also, it's good to track these things, right? Because, you know, easy come, easy go kind of thing is the philosophy that we've, we've kind of grew up with. But now, I want you to, I want you to have a track record of where you went, you know, say, this is, you know, and again, payroll was a big thing for me because I wanted them have a record of finances. I want them to look back in their past year and say, how much money did I make. What did I do with that? Reflect on those things, right? Because a lot of these guys were getting paid under the table, right? And who knows how much they were, you know, other than their bank statements, they had no idea how much they made last year. Right. So I'm like, now,

wanted to kind of get them to think about these things right so rather than thinking about it daily or biweekly they're thinking of it yearly right they're taking themselves out of out of the survival mode tactic kind of thing right so that's really interesting because you think about how much money somebody makes in a year and how much goes towards food how much goes towards i don't know i think that most people play video games now how much goes towards that how much are you investing in vices like alcohol, in drugs, in things that help you cope with your day to day. There's all these different ways of spending your money. And again, if you're working for a big organization, they might say, hey, have you thought

about RRSPs? Have you thought about investing? Have you thought about saving your money? Have you thought about your retirement plan? What is that process? We do that to a significantly less degree with individuals doing hard labor. And the one thing that people need to understand. understand is how often unfair it is that the people who often work the hardest yield the least

fruit from their efforts. Like, you think of berry pickers. They make the least out of all of us. They make less than minimum wage oftentimes. They're working hot sun, no shade, long days, and then they're just brought from one field to the next field. And then they go back to their home country, often Mexico. And nobody gives them a huge thank you from Canada that they did that whole trip to take care of their family. We don't care. Yet people sitting in offices often we're like, are you stressed? Do you have techno stress? What's going on? Are you feeling okay? Maybe you should stay home. It's been a stressful time. We don't want you to get burnout, but the people building houses, building real things that we live in, we don't worry about to the same extent.

We don't think about whether or not they have a retirement plan. We don't think about whether or not they're well and taken care of because there's such a disconnect, in my opinion, between the everyday worker and the tradesperson. There's a different culture there that I feel like is significantly separated. So we're not able to communicate with them, our gratitude when they do hard labor things. And then that manifests in no discussions about pension plans, no discussion about opportunities to climb up,

opportunities to become a leader. Like we don't always view them like that because they're often doing the heavy labor stuff that often we don't want to do. yeah there's definitely like uh you know being taken for granted kind of thing of philosophy because you know you move into your house after it's built right and you don't see that and again there's this theory behind it all um you know it's very underappreciated the type of work that these men are are basically killing themselves to you know get there to work 12 hour days right and and then very underappreciated in a lot of ways and also again there's just no time to talk about it like so that's uh that's what i realize is that you know because we're on the job we're on the clock we're doing these things, where do we have a time to sit down and talk, right? So I'm like, okay, you have to do it on the outside of the truck or in the truck or whatever, right? Like in these toolbox things, and because if you're in office, you're in this atmosphere, it's designed for you to have meeting

space, right? And when you're on site, it's things are going on. You don't feel like you could connect with somebody, right? When there's so many things going on around you. And time of the essence and things are, you know, being built and, you know, and there's all these other things. So it's not. And I can, like for certain people, like, hey, you got 10 minutes. Let's talk. Let's chat things up. I know I've had meetings with employees and coworkers. I typically like to say guys I work with. And then it's where it's like, hey, can you meet me here? Let's have a chat 30 minutes. Like, let's just see where we're at, right? Like what your intentions are. But yeah, it's really undervalued in a lot

of ways. And it's, we rely on it heavily. Like, okay, you know, say if, you know, this is the building next to you doesn't get built, like that's huge. That's a huge impact on the economy on everything, right and um and these guys yeah are aren't being taught you know like the the what's going to happen next right like after this job like are you investing appropriately right are you taking care of yourself physically emotionally like they're not necessarily things that are talked about but they're starting to i feel and just for our people though in general like we're not like we're not trained to talk about how we feel right you know in most times and like trades is a huge area for the men and first nation's community

because that's basically what we're sort of we're used to living with the land, used to using our hands, all that kind of stuff, right? That is natural for us. And so, and this is my main focus, too, was starting this company. I was like, okay, and I took a little bit, it a little personally, because the men of our communities need to be starting to develop, like, you know, more intuition of where they're at, in a sense of where there are emotionally, physically, mentally, all those other things, because nobody asks them.

Right? And not only that, then they're expected not to share these things in their circle. So my idea was if I can grab these maybe undervalued men, kind of give them an opportunity to better themselves, and they take that home with their families, right? You know, to their families, like all of a sudden I made a difference in the world. All of a sudden, I did this, I built this. I'm getting promoted or I'm doing, you know, making a difference. I'm making an impact. All of a sudden, they feel better about themselves. And they go home and they share that feeling with their family, right? And all of a sudden, their families are feeling better, right? Because these are the men, these are the ones supporting their families with whatever occupation most of the time.

And I just feel like if I can invest in, you know, at this little pocket, this population of the communities, it will actually, it will blossom into bigger things. Like in a sense, like the health of the community will go up because a lot of these tradesmen are, you know, obviously like you mentioned, have alcohol and drug addiction possibly, right? And it's just like go to work, then go, you know, feel miserable at work. go back to home, you know, and the domestic violence, whatever happens, all those things that go on it, like just unhealthy habits of, you know, kind of like survival mode with tactics, right? And so my big idea is that hopefully, you know, it could create an environment where, you know, these guys can develop their skills, right?

And they actually develop their thinking strategies, right? And all of a sudden start thinking about finances because if you have, so what is this statistic? If you have about 60, if you make $60,000 a year, your life doesn't improve or whatever that's pretty much like a safe area for people in canada wherever right yeah your happiness level doesn't increase much beyond that yeah yeah and you know and sometimes more money actually creates more problems in terms of it uh depending where you're at in life like it it exaggerates where you're at like say if you're miserable it'll make it worse

right like so drug and alcohol come into consideration you have extra money to spend on those things then i'll make your life worse but if you're feeling good you're embracing your giving you're supporting then yeah maybe it will actually exaggerate those types of things too so you know and and so hopefully when somebody gets to that point of their they're creating more revenue that they're not sabotaging themselves too right so it's like having that balance of that that that road to survival in a sense like okay now i'm useful okay now uh i have a direction now i'm making an impact now i'm making more money okay can i manage it is it not going to sabotage me because that one theory is like you know like how do you you know how do you kill an indian or whatever in the population or whatever

like well you just dump a bunch of money which has happened in in a lot of communities across you know other provinces it's like they've made tons of you know they've been registered a lot of different money and it just creates gang mentality creates more suicidal you know statistics all that stuff right so in terms of like you can't really solve people's problems by paying them more it really just exaggerates their underlying issues so you're hoping that by the time that they're able to become you know comfortable earners that they can manage it and they're not going to just kind of harm themselves with it. So that was always a real kind of challenge for me.

I'm like, okay, I've brought a guy in, I've paying him more. But then all of a sudden, his life got worse for a second, right? And it was just like, oh-oh, I'm supporting the problem in some way. So I got really kind of hard on myself for it. I'm like, okay, now I have to take a step back and reevaluate. So each employee kind of has their own sort of challenges, right? So you have to really understand and be vocal about it and be like, okay, well, And I have to share this with them, each of them.

I was like, I'm not so much, you know, this company is all about you guys. It's all about, you know, what we can do, develop each other's lives. If your quality of life is not getting better working here, then you really don't have, then I really don't feel like you need to be here, right? And that's the whole, it's the big picture thing. So it's like, so you, I realize this now because I jumped from zero to 100, hired like, you know, 15 to 20 guys. And I was like working, got all these projects, things were going okay.

then problems came, right? So then I'm like, okay, I'm going to start microwing a little some of the stuff. And so sort of realizing I was really not focusing on the people too much, like the employees. I'm like, I'm going to make sure the guys are strong enough to handle this responsibility, right? Because a lot of them have the skill, a lot of them don't know how to manage it, right? And it's also like, if you give them too much pride, they'll run away with it. And then all of a sudden, pride equals, what do you call it, sell sabotaging sometimes. You know, if you got too much pride and you will definitely not be, you will not ask questions, you will not share your, you know, your challenges, right?

So, and so it's about regulating. It's like you want to instill pride, but in a safe amount, I guess, in certain terms of, you know, where they're at, I guess. It's like, you know, some people who are very secure and stable in their lives, they don't, they appreciate compliments, acknowledgments, but it's not something they thrive on, right? It's not something that they're like, hopefully I need that or else I'm going to feel depressed. It's like, great, thanks, appreciate the dog, hand shake, move on. right where some of these guys just like they thrive off it and then it was almost like

and then it gets in their way it's like oh no like you know so a mistake will just like just totally sabotage their their confidence i mean so they won't they won't mentioned you know certain things and so i've come in a different scenarios right so you know ego is obviously you know for a really sensitive topic for a lot of people right and you know what what are you doing this like pride and ego is basically it costs a lot of money in some ways and again we go back to the money thing But that's how I have to relate it to it. It's like because as soon as you stop asking questions, as soon as you stop communicating because of your pride's keeping you in isolation, right,

or whatever may be, then, you know, things just kind of go sideways, right? For a lot of reasons for a lot of people, right? They stop being curious and they start being more fearful, right? And it's like maintaining that right side of the brain, like curiosity and empathy and all that stuff, right? And then the left brain is all like, you know, fear-driven stuff, right? So keeping people in a safe atmosphere is super good for business and super good for, you know, our intentions, right? Because, I mean, people need to feel good at what they're doing, but also be accountable, right?

Like, accountability shouldn't be scary, you know? Like, I'm, you know, hopefully instilling the desire to, I want to thrive to be corrected in some ways, right? You know what I mean? Like, you mentioned it. You're like, oh, yeah, I made mistakes. I'm like, that's a great attitude. Like, yeah, because we're always going to make mistakes. Hopefully, right, girls, what are we doing?

We're just staying in one place, right? I always feel that way. Like, I hope I'm taking, making decisions in order to be corrected, right? Because, well, I mean, if I'm always just doing the same thing over and over, then it's, like, not going anywhere. I'm just kind of going in circles, like just completing tasks similarly, right, like a robot. So, you know, I think being human is always constantly learning and growing and developing. So it's what I try to say that with not being too, you know, grandiose about it to the guys because they're just like, what are you doing? He's going on up to tangent, right?

So it's like little things, little bits at a time, right? Yeah. You know, I can't sit down for three hours and have, you know, interview with a lot of the guys. But there is, you know, there's parts and opportunities each day. You can kind of share the little things and help motivate them and also correct them. It's really hard to correct people sometimes, right? You know, and because, you know, as soon as we feel threatened, like our security, our confidence, and it'll be like cave and then we want to give up, right?

Especially when there's something there that you can see, like, if you make, like, a birdhouse and it's a bad bird house. and it's like nobody can live in this birdhouse. Like there's a, like when a child shows you something and goes like, hey, what do you think? And you're like, that's great. Like you don't want to just be like, oh, well, that's not useful. We're not putting that on the fridge. Like you don't say that. You want to make sure that it's a constructive comment that you're showing support and that you're also encouraging them to improve and not saying this is perfect because maybe there are areas of improvement.

That greater why seems to be a challenge that we're not very good at. Like as a native co-worker, I'll work with someone and we'll talk about going to detox or treatment or recovery. And we forget to ask the greater why a lot of the time. Like, why would you want to be clean? Why would you want to have a healthy life? Why would you want to have a stable job? Like, what is all of these little pieces in your life building towards? Well, imagine what you want your house to look like.

You want to be able to come home, have maybe a long day of work, but then your partner, your spouse, greets you and says like I'm so grateful you're home we have like a fresh casserole in the oven it'll be ready in about five minutes don't stress too much the kids are already plague you want to come home to a healthy environment that is the long term

goal you want to be able to make traditions have family recipes at Thanksgiving or Christmas or whenever your celebrations are you want to be able to feel warmth when you come home and loved and valued we all want that and so

going to that greater why it seems like we're not always great at we're like we'll go get the treatment then we'll talk about it or go do this then we'll talk about it and then you can think about that and we so often miss out on the fact that these are really people's lives that you're having a small piece in improving for the better or for the worse yeah i have a hard time actually setting that boundary like how far can i go and getting involved with these guys right because i mean honestly i get a little bit codependent with it i'm like oh god so i get disappointed because it's not so much that you caught you know the company a lot of money it's the fact that you kind of made a decision that really harmed yourself you know I mean because I'm like you know again that my investment is like I'm really hoping um and I'm really hoping that when we make these decisions to kind of give people opportunities that you know that they take it in with a grain of salt and that um that in the end of the end of the shift that they feel pretty good about it and they're not like okay you know dreading the next day kind of thing right so um and it's about being open and honest about you know, maybe at the start, like my, my flaw, shortcomings, those things, right?

And so, again, when we're correcting people, it's, it's good to set the table, right? Like, so, and I always, I always forget this because I get caught, and like you said, the why stuff, and then, like, I get caught looking at the day-to-day stuff. I'm like, oh, shit, because it's so easy. You look at this, you know, a wall of photos, and then one looks out of place. You're only going to focus on that one, right? You know, this, and I was like, oh, it looks like a funny photo. It shouldn't do that.

You want to pull it off, fix it, right? That's all you're going to focus on. So, and then my biggest struggle is that I'm like, okay, every time that I make a correction, I have to say two good things first, right? Hey, hey, hey, great, thanks for being on time. Hey, that's, that corner looks really good, right? Like, fantastic. And then, but, hey, what do you think about this, right?

Ask them. Give them a chance to kind of, like, combaliate their homework. Because you get lost in it. Honestly, with anything you do, you're writing a book, you're spending three or four hours or whatever at a time on it. And then you just get lost in it, you forget about, what was I doing it? Right? And then, of a sudden, like, the quality kind of goes down because you're just kind of entrant.

It's like you're in the eye of the storm, right? And so, of a sudden, all these things are going on around you. Say, you know, you're painting a wall three hours at a time. You, you know, miss a corner because, like, you're just going on and on and on, right? So there's bound to be corrections with things. And there's just, and it's helped to have an outside perspective with it, right? Like somebody just, they call them quality control, right? So you have a supervisor manager, whoever come in, you're just like, oh, hey, man, did you miss that?

Yeah, okay, sweet, thanks, fix it or whatever, I'll fix it, some of the other, right? So, and again, it's just like incrementally getting better. And I think that's a, it's a really solid philosophy for life. I mean, it's just like incrementally getting better each day. Like, if you wake up, you know, with the curiosity, like, hey, I wonder what I'm going to learn today. Hey, I wonder what's going to challenge me today. You know, like this whole, even this setup here, this podcast, it was like, oh, this is kind of really making me a little nervous. But it's going to be fun, right?

Look at it as curiosity, fun, and excitement, right? And that will help ease the anxiety and the tension. It's like, you know, whatever happens happens, whatever I say, say, and nothing's going to be perfect and on to the next one, right? Like those little things. And, you know, because I really, you know, admire when you set this thing up. Like, you started 100 odd people ago, right? And it was just like, you know, one person at a time and it'll take off when it takes off.

And so, and it did. And people recognize you and understand the work that you're doing. Like, it's just underlying commitment and consistency to the bigger picture, right? Like you said, find that why. I like that whole Simon Seneca kind of book that he wrote on it, right? Right. And, you know, another great person that kind of, like, just take all this information from

because he's interviewed and talked to millions of, like, well, hundreds of thousands of people kind of thing, right, have been to have access to people is huge. And I realized, like, when I started the whole thing, I was like, I'm going to need time to get information together, right? It's not like I came into this thing. I had an idea, right? I want to create this thing.

I just want to see what happens. I need the information. I need the data. And that's why, again, the time card thing was important to me because I wanted to see where everybody's level was at. Reading, writing, accountability, all these different things. Like, I had all these assumptions from just developing from different books and stuff like that. And then I had, you know, these philosophies, but I didn't put them into practice, right?

Because, I mean, I spent some time in politics and I was just like, well, I was preaching all these suggestions, like, right, to the table and all that. And in other terms, it wasn't really going over because they didn't have any factual evidence on it, right? It was just all theories. And so when I started this company, I was like, well, let's put these theories to the test. Let's try to create this environment. Let's try to create dialogue back and forth because any good decision is created with tons of dialogue, right? Like the more people have input, the better it is. It's not necessarily right or wrong.

It's just like it's the balance of input, right? Like so, you know, say like, hey, everybody decides, boats. Should we drive on the left side of the road? You know, either side doesn't matter, right? Like you could drive on the left or the right. It's just what's right is to whoever, whatever we vote on, right? like the democracy mentality right so um i like the fact that people the more people that have weigh in on a subject you know the more accurate it is obviously right so um and i have to remember

that too even just talking about it because i'm not at each project that i have i could have five or six projects going on at same time and i just i take my best intuition from where i'm at right and and then i have to get the guys together and talk about it and like i hope you guys are talking about the problems and the solutions right and then you know have have people to just conversely because you know the more people that weigh in on a subject the better right because we all have our own life experiences our own work experiences all these different things these problem solving tactics share those right and so i i have always really recognized the fact that i need help consciously to make these things happen right i can't do everything i don't have all

the answers um again i i just have hopefully uh you know some skill at delegating the responsibilities to other people right having that intuition uh recognizing you know know, what people need and actually asking the right questions. Huge thing. You're learning how to ask the right questions, right? And then you're really good at it, obviously, you kind of, you know, you hit things out right where they're supposed to be focused on. And then, and again, it's all just, I knew I came into this, not taking it personally, right? And going into it with that why, like you said, um, staying focused on the vision, it's super hard because you get entrenched in numbers and, you know, statistics. You get, you know,

miss days or whatever where people certain things come in your way and then you forget what does I start at this for what was I doing again right keeping that why and focus front or center stage right and then all of a sudden your your decision making gets a lot better but as soon as you start looking at all the negatives you kind of feel like you have to fix them and it's like a lot of it kind of oddly if you have the right mindset just kind of takes care of itself in some ways right like if you stay positive um because I I've made mistakes tons of mistakes like in ways that I've kind of strategize how to correct things, right, to improve quality. I'm like, okay, do I do what I was taught or do I still practice my own philosophy?

So, honestly, I've had mixed results. Like, I don't like to be that sort of dictator, sort of these things, this is the rules. And I don't want to have to create contracts and policies and all these stuff as much as I feel necessary. I feel like, you know, being respectful and understanding goes a long way, right? And there does need to be defined solutions for certain areas in your business, right? So people will obviously rely on policy, but I think you could really run people ragged with policy, right? And all of a sudden, they're afraid to move. They're afraid to really offer suggestions they think policies are laws.

And they're just suggestions and guidelines, right? And so, again, I've tried to, I've had a really free-spirited way of developing it, and now we're starting to step into different rounds, like, okay, well, you guys know what the rules are, you know what the consequences are, you guys babysit yourself. you know what I mean like hold yourself accountable to these things that we've all agreed upon you've signed the contract you know what the you know the guidelines are you know if you're sort of being you know because again you as you mentioned dealing with guys that you know all different areas of life some guys you know maybe maybe have um different challenges right like some people you know a lot of them don't really drink that much but some of them do and I don't I don't disc I don't disregard it it's like yeah you know responsibly whatever if you can make it to work you have things you have to at for. I don't criticize it, whatever. I've had my history with it. And I just, I really, I want to make sure that you guys are unaware of what the rules are, because I know that if I enable those behaviors, it's not really getting them anywhere, too, right? And so, but also, I have to remember to kind of have empathy, use the right side of my brain, curiosity. Those are,

those are the biggest things when coming into disciplinary actions. I'm like, you know, like understanding why your workers are doing these things, right? Like, I've had scenarios where I've had vehicles impounded. I've had, you know, different things and, you know, careless people, you know, things breaking down, losing, stuff like that. Like, things that cost a lot of money. And I was just like, I wasn't so concerned about the money. Like I mentioned, it was just like, well, I wonder what's going on, right?

I should check in. And that is, you know, you try to take as much ownership as you possibly can in those situations. Like, okay, I wasn't checking in with this guy. I felt like something was going wrong, but I kind of ignored it, right? So, I mean, and that's where you can kind of start, like, okay. opportunity to change my actions, right? What do I have control over myself, right? I don't have control of much else other than, you know, the situation that I'm in, right? So, you know, again, those checkpoints are really important for me to kind of really reevaluate and strategize how to

communicate better because, you know, everything's communication when it comes down to, you know, trying to get a job done, getting a point across in terms of, okay, well, who has, you know, who's got the most valuable input in this point, right? But also like, you know, how does everybody feeling because you're always thinking about morale, you're thinking about, you know, security, you're thinking about, okay, because I've been there. I've been, I've had employers that look at me, like, kind of like, I can tell when you're having a bad day, like a mile away across the site kind of thing, right? And they've had given me, like, time to breathe, right? Like, when I made decisions are just like, quit drinking all together and like, they're like, okay,

there's going to be tough days. And right, and that's when things really changed for me. And then I was like, yeah, and I appreciated those, right? Having, you know, a mentor that was like, okay do it take your time I know we got millions of dollars of machines we're roaming around here but you know go ahead take your time and go do your thing right revaluate come back that was huge right so I want to also

come to that approach too but it's hard because I think my biggest you know I guess if I was going to define their job was like I have to figure what everybody wants without them telling me right in a lot of the time right and reading those cues really understanding where they're coming from

and wondering why they're doing the things they do right because you know at the end of the day it's you know it's it's it's like are you enjoying yourself people aren't enjoying themselves and they're not going to stick around right or they're not going to really apply themselves right or they're going to get resentful and i got to remember that too i'm like okay well i can't really over overwhelms people either right some people like a challenge but some people like no i just like to kind of plug in plug out kind of thing right those types of things but yeah the big comment that you just made is it's it's like so many organizations have endless amounts of policies but policies should be embodied by someone and it sounds like

they're embodied by you like you have to act them out in order for them to be true like how many times do people have on their website like our mission statement our values our and then you read it and you kind of uh huh like sure like because everybody puts integrity community uh like honest like all these things and it's like who in the company embodies that and that's supposed to be CEO, the founder, the creator, they're supposed to embody it and then it makes sense to people because then they see it and they go, that's why that's there. But so many times we put in what we think is correct, what somebody in a book told us without understanding like the circumstances in which this would be applied and in which this would be useful to somebody

to actually understand. And so often we are in our own world, we don't appreciate the trials and tribulations people go through, and we've developed this culture of, like, keep home life problems at home and put on your work hat. And particularly with indigenous communities, we know that that's an extra challenge because the challenges are often far greater. Like, as a court worker, I get to see domestic violence charges, sexual assault charges, different problems than I see from other community members. And there's no comparison that the drug crimes are often perpetrated by non-indigenous people. But the challenges within indigenous communities is like, these people go home at the end of the day, to the people that they hurt, to the community

that they hurt. And mending these relationships, the topic of reconciliation is such a challenge because so many people are at different stages in that conversation. Some aren't even ready for that topic to come up yet because they're still so entrenched in like negativity. And I try and explain to people like you think of somebody who attended Indian residential school and was given all the worst tools on how to deal with problems and then they had children and they passed on all their terrible tools to their children and then now we have people like you and I who are like likely that third generation of people who are now removed from the trauma but we still see like I don't have family recipes we don't have family traditions we practiced for 60 years 70 years where

it's just every year we do these type of potatoes this type of thing and That means a lot to people. Like, a lot of people joke about, like, pumpkin spice lattes. But that becomes a cultural tradition that everybody recognizes and they go, fall, this. And that means something to us. There's a reason people take photos of it and I'm proud of it. There's a reason people get excited about their Christmas treats. It's because these are the times where the stress of life, the problems in the world, all those things fade away.

And it's what's at home. It's where you're loved and valued. it's where that enjoyment comes in where those other problems can fade away and for so many people it's like you go home and you haven't learned how to greet your wife at the end of the day you don't know how to do that because some people come home and their boss just got mad at them and then they come home and they take that out on their wife and they go oh why isn't this room clean why isn't that like this and then it's like okay this isn't fruitful like this is pushing you both in the wrong direction because her response is going to be well you did this wrong and why didn't you do that and why isn't the car repair or whatever the problems are. Now you're just in a fight and your bad day at work just manifested itself at home. Like the tools of how to come home,

how to show the person you love, that you love them is so important because the one thing I've learned a lot through this is like I take on different levels of stress and problems and try and solve things. The thing I hate the most is the person who often gets the worst brunt of my stupidity, my short-sighted comment,

is the person who's the most supportive of me, the person who's there at 11 o'clock at night when I'm still editing a podcast or something. And then I say something sassy or rude to her. And she's like, hey, I've been here. I've been here the whole time trying to support you. And what? Now I get this.

And it's like, that's not fair. But that's so often the case for people. Yeah, actually, that kind of brings up another point. I was, you know, and that's the idea with, like, I kind of hope that I offer something to these guys that they can, you know, have a good feeling about what they've done throughout the day. And I've had, you know, situations where some people aren't, right? they're kind of faking it until they make it. And honestly, it's like it's not worth living dishonest. You want to be, you want to move ahead in the world. Honesty is your main thing, right? And so

and it's not so easy to do some of the times, right? Like you kind of like, you know, am I able to take criticism today? Am I able to, you know, accept my, you know, my failures with a, you know, with a strong heart kind of thing. And it's not, that thing's ever completely failed. And that's why I love about construction. Like, and I said it to the guys, I'm like, you know, I say this And like, okay, no matter what happens, like, if this, if we do good or not, we could redo it. That's the industry we're in, right? Like, we can just take it down and redo it again. Like, no problem.

And I've had to do that, like, in several projects. And I'm hoping that some people had, like, the understanding. Like, yeah, I'm like, don't worry. At no cost to you, will this ever be, like, I have these guys, they're going to do this project. If it doesn't work, we'll redo it free of charge, right? Like, that's the idea. So, you know, my risk is, it's always been my risk on everything that I've tried because this is technically my experiment, right?

So I'm like, I'm in, you know, this is something that I'm like just kind of trying, which I think all of us, like yourself, like you try these things and you just, you hope it works out. And, you know, you learn along the way. But that determination is say, I'm not going to quit. I'm going to keep going. Like, you know, no matter if I hire these people or whatever goes on if they leave. One thing is I don't chase guys too much. I try to understand them.

But sometimes people just decide that, you know, it's not good for them. And it's like, okay, that's good. That's your decision. I hope this was a stepping stone to better things, right? And so, and that's what I think, too, is, everything in this industry is repairable right and to a certain extent and it just costs money right they're their objects their houses there these things if you do we do a window and it leaks we just take it out and redo it again like that's beautiful about it right it's like it's that no real inconvenience to

anybody else but just it costs money that's it right and so but i i always feel like you know our failures have taught us the biggest lessons and that's the commonality between you know in any industry right like you learn significantly more from your failures than you do your successes, right? Like, hey, if I go and I hire three guys to go build a house and then it's done in three months, I'm like, and I didn't hear anything about it. Like, I don't learn nothing. Like, oh, I just know that those three guys can build a house.

But, you know, if I hire three guys to go side a house and it goes sideways, like, I'm like, wow. And all of a sudden I have to learn where all these mistakes went. So then all of a sudden I've accumulated all this information. And again, I talked to the guys too. I'm like, well, I just know a lot more. You know, that was a big expensive mistake. But I've gained a crap done of knowledge, you know what I'm about it, right?

So I don't ever waste a tragedy, you know, in a lot of ways. And I think that's really huge because it's good energy, right? Like, oh, because obviously if things are going exactly the way that you predicted, you're never really going to challenge yourself. You're like, oh, this is, today went exactly the way I anticipated. So it's like, if the life went exactly the way you wanted to all the time, I mean, what's the point? And it's like, so you kind of, everybody loves a story. And so I realized, too, it's like, you know, it's like you want to be part of a story, right?

This journey that you're doing. And so, I mean, I'm hoping that, you know, whatever, if this is the chapter in guy's life, or if it's the center, you know, focal point of their life, is fantastic, right? You know, to be a part of it, like you said, a small part of, like, a bigger picture. And because work is important. Like, I think about it. Like, I grew up with the work ethic, you know, my dad and my mom. It was like, work, work, right?

Like, that's how I impressed my dad. It's like that I could work really hard. I could lift things, like, do this, right? And the schooling thing didn't really impress them whatsoever, right? Because it was a knack for schooling and stuff. but um you know in soccer and stuff those those things it was old school mentality right like oh because he was a roofer and um for a number of years and different things he was logger as well and um and all that so it was it was it was that was how i would impress him right if i could work

10 hours that day lifting and like just sweating my you know my ass off really it was like that was you know that was how you got you know established pride from your father in that way right so I mean, the whole education thing when I told him was like, oh, I would like to go to mid-school one day. He was like, you know, his first thing was like, I don't need a doctor. I need a lawyer, you know what I mean? Because he's dealing with certain charges at the time or whatever it was, right? You know, it was prohibitions and all that, right? I think he was a pretty avid drinker.

But so a lot of that also really kind of the deeper meaning of it all. I was like, I know that, you know, it hits home pretty close because, you know, my dad, I feel was probably Pickle was in that mode of really kind of doing these occupations and didn't feel fulfilled for particularly. It wasn't until he started doing his own thing. Like fishing was his biggest thing, right? He felt like he was in control out there and he was. He was good and all of the stuff.

And it was kind of like it also was mixed with the partying kind of thing too. But, you know, it's just you find these, you want to give people opportunities to feel impactful. You want them to express themselves in ways. And I like to kind of, I like guys. you know don't say no you know what I mean they're like you know I hire guys on say as a framer but then I'm going to ask him to do some drywall or something I'm like I don't do that much I'm a frame like said all you know not to undermine framers are very very complicated

but open minded yeah you know like how we were builders right you know and that's why I don't actually give titles to my guys I just call them tradesmen like because you're probably going to do tons of different things because that's what we have the capacity to so when I strategically hire people it's like okay you you know this, you're a plumber, you're a framer, you're this, put them all together. You guys are home builders now, right? You know what I mean? So you kind of put the combination of people together, right?

And you no longer just one thing, you're three things, right? Or whatever, four things, whatever it is. So, but they also, too, it's like you have to realize you have to create an area where they can communicate amongst each other. Titles separate people. So it's going to say that one of them, hey, the framers, the foreman, then the other guys won't speak. Right? So then it's like, no, you guys. And this is where you have to, you know, kind of tear down the half.

hierarchy. It's like, okay, well, nobody's got a title here. You just have people that talk amongst each other. You know, certain people have responsibilities and, you know, um, we all have, nobody's higher or lower than each other. We just have different jobs. You know, it's hard to really kind of, I always have to repeat that. I'm like, uh, I'm, you know, I'm not your boss or whatever. I, I'm just, I just have different responsibilities than you, right? Like, we're all trying to do the same thing. We're just all necessary in different ways, right? Um, But again, when you were talking about being that hub of your vision or your philosophy or whatever, the mission statement, it's really hard to show that to a crew guys that maybe only see you a few times a day or whatever, right? Because if you have multiple crews and sites everywhere, you can't really be there alongside them doing the work all the time, right?

There's so much going on and there's other things and I have to manage and I have to go back to the office and, you know, work with an admin team, different things, right? and there's payroll every two weeks and there's all these different things going on. You're kind of just putting out fire. So, and they don't see that. So it's, you know, it's kind of unfortunate that I don't, and I was hoping to be able to develop the systems, you know, long enough where that I could eventually just kind of be able to go there

and spend half a day going doing the work with the guys, you know, go work inside the house or go frame. You know, I like doing those things, right? And that's what we kind of aspire to do. It's like, I enjoy it. It's like, you know, say if, you know, whatever hobby you have, if you build a dog house, you just kind of get lost. lost in it. You know, you're just sitting sit there and you're building this thing. You're

creating something out of nothing. And in a lot of ways, right? And that's the, that's the kick that guys get in this industry. It's like, I just made this ugly thing turn into something really nice. And, you know, you get, you feel very rewarding after, right? And they hold on to that and they're going on to the next. And, you know, the exchange for me and them right now is just mostly finances, right? Like, you know, I pay them to do a job. And, you know, I think you have to really instill this belief in your guys. Is it say, like, no, the exchange is then giving you an opportunity to express yourself, right? And giving you an opportunity to push yourself, challenge yourself, right? And then, yeah, I got to organize a fleet of vehicle.

I got to organize all the finances and management and all that of stuff. And then, you know, the interviews and meetings with different, you know, clients. But, you know, it's like, when you're there at work, you get to do what you like doing. And I hope that's kind of what I try to pass on. I'm like, just, I hope you like what you're doing. Because then, like, I don't have to watch over you. I have to check if you're taking breaks regularly or whatever, right? It's like, you know, it's like the work will take care of itself, right? You instill that desire and that passion for the work then it's just like you just kind of like hands off you know and just like kind of know that it's just going to go the way it is and things are going to get done

because I uh you know I guess I have a lot of faith in it right because I you know over time you know you separate the wheat from the chaff kind of thing like the cream rise above or whatever that whole saying goes um and it's happening you know several times I'm like okay well you know things are going well here I don't you know and I sell them as like if you don't see me that means things are going well, you know what I mean, in some ways, and I do hope that I can show up a little bit more, because sometimes, like, if I'm driving to, like, Scala, it's sort of Swali, like, and then I've got to go to Surrey. It's like, you know, within a day of taking two trips, you're like, okay, I can only got, you know, a certain amount of time to really acknowledge

and kind of sit there and appreciate the guys, right, in several crews, and you always trying to remember, like, where you've spent your time, like, oh, I haven't checked in this Frank in a long time, I should go check him out, right? You know what I mean? Like, make sure he's still kind of on a good chapter, right, or else he could be kind of mustering around or something and not really saying anything right so um yeah that investment in people that kind of mindset i was just listening to an interview with uh lex friedman and a CIA um past CIA operative chris boss uh no um robert something i think um but he was basically talking about the idea that great leaders uh don't have to say a lot a lot of it becomes a myth uh like a story

that other people tell, an understanding of like, do you know how hard that person works? And you don't answer those questions, how hard do you work? How much time do you put in? How many fires do you put out? It becomes, with your inter-esthalon, of people you speak with daily, they give some inkling over time to the staff of how much you're doing. And then it becomes like a philosophy, like we don't know how hard he's working, but when you're constantly putting out that that's your mission, that's your value, other people

catch wind of it. And then it becomes like, say, one of your managers goes like, oh, like, that's not going to like it if you're, if you're doing that, like, it becomes something you don't even have to say. You don't even have to remind anyone. But over time, people start to understand that this is what is valued most in this organization, that the people who end up being the managers are the people exactly who fit your value statements, the things you want to bring about. And it takes time and it takes small conversations you'll never be a part of. but that's what starts to grow is his whispers of like oh why do you think he moved up well he was really good to this person and he always cared about the staff and then and then they go oh that's what's valued here it's not always through big speeches to 50 people big conferences

it's often what the what the underlying implied understanding is that you're selecting these people and why and then when those whys get out to people that's where they go hmm this is maybe where I want to go, this is how I want to approach it then, because this is what's being valued. The challenge other organizations have is there is no why. So it's like, oh, you do the work as fast as you can. So those are the people who climb up. And then when that becomes a culture and you know you're never going to be the fastest

person, then what the hell am I doing here? Why am I going to care what anybody thinks? And so I think that develops over time, but it's still through the decisions you make of who you support, who you invest more, and why is this person getting more support? well they're trying really hard and they just fell down and he wants to see them develop like all of that is going to happen I think over time yeah honestly you got because I know now like I only got you know if the company gets bigger like I mentioned if you know I've had um you know I think the most 21 or 22 guys on on payroll at one time and that was just way too much just at where we were at with the projects that we had going on um but I mean now it's just like okay before I get to if if it goes to that again and I'm not too sure what direction I want to go on depending on the amount of work that comes out of us that I have to be prepare my managers again like you said project managers like okay you know what the target is right you know and this is how we implemented communicate with me because I only have time to talk to maybe three of these guys is per day right

or also I'm like on each guy do so and I was like you have to kind of echo what the idea is here and I think a lot of them get it and I really wanted to stay on the positive of things because nobody likes because you know I grew up as an anxious person kind of thing right nobody likes to work in fear right and that's a really kind of unproductive tactic to do to motivate people like hey you know you rather work this hard or you're going to get fired like that's like how i'm doing this out of like you know like fear-based you know energy and it's not great when you're kind of doing it off you know self-rebound motivated sort of like um high purposeful and you know energy and that that's great that just takes care of itself it pumps the tires constantly you know it keeps the wheels turning and you know i i think it's like everybody's got the ability to do it but they also again it is up to the kind of the manners of the people just above and kind of checking in, making sure they're creating a good, safe atmosphere, and, you know, and keeping the dialogue open and stuff like that. Like, hey, what do you think? Like, your opinion is matter. You know, you're, because I'm here setting up the job or whatever, but you're the one actually doing the work. What do you see? Right? I need that information, right? Like, what, you know, because, again, what we developed in this company was, is more of, like, it was a research thing. Like, I want to know what's going on with these houses. Like, you know, what do you guys find? Like, because there's no real, like, a person that's really being the, The voice of, hey, I just renovated 40 houses, let's say 10 houses or whatever, these were all the issue, right? And so let's kind of like narrow it down.

And let's figure out ways to actually, you know, let's write instead of just throwing a bunch of money at it. Let's plan for the future, right? Let's actually kind of make sure these problems don't happen again. And, you know, there's not enough research around it, like for contracts to come in, do the work, collect, a paycheck, and leave. It's like, no, I want to stay here, right? I want to kind of build these houses. I want to stay and make sure what's going on. And there was so many interesting things that happens throughout this.

past year. A lot of different, like, mental benefits of actually kind of, so I did siding to this one house and right away the family started, so it was like a 40-year-old house and then it was wood paneling, all that stuff, but it was really like an old color, paint was coming off. I redid the whole siding to vinyl. They started planting a garden out front, right? They did little things like that and, you know, and all of a sudden they started feeling you, they looked a little better, right? They, you know, they had a little skip in their step and they, you know, probably started taking a little more and you know these are the benefits of doing this work is that you know native first nation's families are just like well i've lived in this house my whole life i've never seen

it look so nice all of a sudden start treating people a little better like and their addictions will sort of go down a little bit right they started like you know taking more pride in their houses right and they busy themselves with a guard and instead of going to you know say liquor store or whatever right like they're just they find little things to like now they're focusing upkeeping this thing that they actually appreciate um right and so there's a little side benefits of doing this work right and you get to see in little rewards. And I always say that to the guys too. I was like, you know, I, you know, especially my, you know, my stint in politics too is like, I told the, you know, the portfolios and stuff like that when I was in meetings. I'm like, I was like, these are kind of

very kind of risky ideas, but I'll take the hit, right? You know what I mean? If I'm going to talk to the directors, like, yeah, it's a good decision. Go with it. And if they don't like it, I'll take the hit, right? I'll take it from the community, whatever. But I think it's a good risk, right? And that's what you're doing when you're making decisions. So why did, why do, Why did you leave? I think it's inspiring. Yeah, so, I mean, that was, not to criticize politics, but it was, it was, it was a lot, it was consuming a lot of my time. And it didn't seem like it was moving fast enough for me at the, you know, because, you know, my philosophy in it, okay, so do you have, say, eight people at a table, right?

And they all have different ideas. And that's a difference between First Nations and, say, you know, the Western, culture is that, you know, you have parties, right? You know, liberal, and I'm not an expert on political science or anything, but, you know, you have basically people that are elected in and they all have the same rough ideas, right, conservative, liberal, like, they're all kind of the same. But you have a table of First Nations, and guess what, you have liberal, conservatives, they all have different ideas and they sit at the same table.

So guess what? Coming to a decision is really tough. You know what I mean? So typically when, like, several people disagree, nothing gets done. You know what I mean? So you don't really come to an accurate conclusion. I think, which is nice, like I said, that dialogue. creates a lot of opportunities, but also, too, is like, I just felt like the amount of time I was

spending in meetings and talking and doing this other stuff, and the impractical hands-on work that I was doing wasn't, you know, it wasn't there. So I'm like, you know what? And I want to just take, there was about 20 houses that were vacant and see. So I was like, I want to be the one that kind takes hold of that. I want to see what these issues are. I don't want this to happen again, right? So, and then I was like, well, it was kind of an either or. I felt my work with my company was being more impactful than, you know, say, my work at a table of like eight, right? So, and it was like, I had to make a decision. I'm like, okay, I think if I stay in politics, my company will fail. And, you know, and then I'll be resentful this way. And so I had to like, and also, too,

it was like, you can't be in politics and serve your community, you know, as a contractor either. So there was a, there's very many reasons, I guess, in terms is because I think I learned what I learned there, and I realized how long it was going to take to make change. I just understood the process. I was like, okay, this is actually really a lengthy process to make anything happen because now you have this title and you can't be an individual. You know, you are now a political figure and now you can't actually just do things on your own. You actually have to have people agree with it before you move.

So I was very restricted, you know, political restriction. And also there's a lot of, you know, political gridlock in certain areas. But I had an idea and I was like, okay, well, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to create a company. I'm going to hire my own guys. I'm going to create my own revenue and I'm going to just do projects myself and I don't have to wait

a month for other people to agree with me or not you know what I mean I was like you know I get you know I create my own revenue I could start projects I can build a playground if I want I could just do all these things

if I have my own revenue and I was like okay great so because making money has never been you know is this a challenge of almost anything and again when we're talking about money it takes a lot of agreements right like if we're talking about government funded budgets and stuff like that.

It's like, you know, everybody has to be on board and people get really like kind of like they whip out the magnifying glass every time things got to be right and check before they sign any checks, right? So I'm like, if I create a company that's actually beneficial to the community and can create revenue, I could reinvest the revenue into the community and it just, and it turns itself and it keeps propelling, right? And I don't have to ask internet people like if they agree with me or not. Can you describe that more in detail, that reinvestment?

Again, it seems like a lot of money leaves indigenous communities when we talk about housing specifically hiring some third party organization from another area to come in build our houses they take the money and then hypothetically they spend that in their community whether it's like a promontory or a yera or some other community other than ours

keeping it within the community seems like an ethic of yours and I'm just curious about that yeah and I think it kind of actually goes even more involved even hiring in the community is a big one too because I mean at least within our people and I'm not going to say that I hire all first nations I have a couple of non-first nations right and that they're friends of friends I'm like okay I give an opportunity right because I obviously need workers like anybody else and so you know you have to find a balance so my idea was um and again my one of my

friends that you like to support locally I like to invest within my community as much as they possibly can and so but it's really hard to do work in your own in your own in your own circle so um found found that out the hard way. But, you know, it'll get there. I have to build strengths in different ways and ties and belief and trust because, you know, working for your own community is really hard, especially because you live there and everybody watches you and these are your family, these are your friends, right? And the word gets back to you constantly, right? I can imagine that, you know, the things, the concerns that happen in other communities like that I do work in, I just don't hear it, right? Because they're all over there, right? Like, and I'm in Cibird,

right? And so, like, they probably like, oh, you know, Creek Cedar's coming and they took a little bit longer on this one or, you know, what's this? And I just don't hear the grievances. So then I'm going off my way and, you know, work. That's just part of the job, right? We have to deal with people and their perspectives, right? But, I mean, again, I always say, you know, like, I want, you know, I guess when I seen all the numbers come in and how much that we needed the cost to fix his houses and like, you know, it would be really beneficial if that money stayed here. So I was like, if I start my company, hire, you know, and this was a story of mine with one of the guys that I originally hired, you know, he hadn't had to work in several months and whatever. and he'd applied for our community work,

but it was never an opportunity for him. I hired him, boom, he was killing it. And then I started paying him more, and then he was actually in the rears with housing, stuff like that too. So the projects that I was getting funding from the band, paying my workers, and then they're paying the housing, right? They're paying their debts off to the band. So it's almost like, you know, boom, here, takes money,

give to him, he's going and giving it back to housing. So it's just like this, but, again, all this work got done in the meantime. So, again, that's investing internally. And that's what I kind of thought, too, and he's like, I had an issue with that. Like, okay, say the government gives us a million dollars to fix all these houses. Right? And then it's like, okay, then we sit on it, have meetings about it, go and hire this.

You know, we get three people to quote on it. And then we hire the cheapest one, I guess, right? That's typically how things would work. And then all of a sudden he takes that, does the work, whatever how, whatever the quality is, we have no way of tracking it really, other than having an inspector in. He takes that, you know, $500,000. goes, and then we don't ever see it again, right? So I kind of had an issue with that.

Not an issue, but I mean, it was just like it seems like, you know, hey, how about you, you know, direct it towards, you know, we keep it here, I pay my guys, I keep the revenue, I keep the revenue, I reinvested in the community. I do kind of like projects, right? You know, and then guess what? We use that money three times. You know what I mean? It's like it stays here, and then all of a sudden it circulates back to the band somehow,

the people, right? And then, you know, and that's how you create, you know, a strong economy within your community. You take all this government funding and it stays here. You know what I mean? And it circulates and people start up their own businesses and we start buying from them. And it's just like this big ongoing and like this money just kind of keeps balancing around. And then government gives another grant to fix more house and the same thing. And then you have this big mountain of like, you know, this big economy on Cibird or wherever what community you're on, right? Or even if it's, you know, First Nations and other communities, I don't mind, right? Like, but I think

we've always been stuck in the cycle where all these government, you know, funding comes in and just leaves and it's like just constantly pumping money into this community and it just leaves right and we hire you know all that other stuff so i don't understand i you have this mindset that seems logical reasonable it all makes sense i definitely agree with you and yet i never hear it i never i completely agree with you i just never hear this mindset of trying to grow indigenous economies in this way like just the simple things you've just said i just don't hear it very often and it seems so reasonable and logical and I'm grateful that people like

you are doing this work. Yeah, I think because, well, I kind of fit into a fairly unique category because not a whole lot of contractors, I guess, would say, would take, see the numbers and, you know, and are in the contractor field and all this other stuff, right? And again, I've always had this sort of strong intuition

of finances and sense of, I've always been curious about it, right? Like, where does money come from? How is it spent? Where does it go? So even my time on, you know, on council and stuff, like I was very interested in, hey, what's our audit look like? What are the details? Can I talk with finance? I wasn't on the portfolio. I kind of wish it was because I had a lot of questions. Like, where is our money moving? Because I constantly, that's the big part of being, you know, a business owner. You have to be tracking everything.

And that's a big statement. Say, if you can't measure, you can't manage it, right? So measuring all these things is quite important. Right. So you, um, And again, it's like, you know, where's the, where's, what are we spending money on, right? Like, where can we save this and that and where could we reinvest? And people are confused about assets and liabilities constantly, right? So, you know, they say, you know, oh, these houses are our biggest asset. They're not. They're a biggest liability because guess what?

We keep fixing them. Move people in. They keep depreciating. We keep fixing. They're their biggest liabilities we have, 200 houses. And they just keep, we keep repairing them, keep spending more and more money on it. Money that we could be focused on developing more mental strategies to kind of increase the quality of their lives and so and again and these things have been talked about it's just no real no one

was able to implement like there has been construction crews um and i think this idea has been practiced a little bit but again that was years ago and you know people don't have the information we have now like you know our generation we're super fortunate because we have basically everything at our fingertips right we can you know in our we in our pocket we can google anything we can YouTube anything pretty much and you know and that's that's the fortunate thing and we in people like yourself they just take advantage but like yeah boom why why would I not start a podcast like I could learn how to do it online or whatever I could actually just email somebody and they'll tell me how or you know all these things right like it's just you know we're so fortunate with information these

days right and I mean and that's that's my thing is I don't have a too strong of an educational background I didn't finish my science degree but I was like I was in it and I was like well I think I'm more of a practical learner anyway, you know, and I've taken a lot of risk, and that costs money. But I think it's just like, I more or less, I still have that sort of like that research mentality. I still think, let's see if this works, right? And then I get a thrill out of it. And it's like, it's kind of fun. Like, I have an idea. Let's see if it works, right? And then let's learn along the way. You know, I learn a lot just kind of trial and error, right? And then so if this is something that, you know, most people will buy into. And I think they do. I've had several communities that

really like the idea, you know, and I have to explain to them and, you know, I have conversations like this a little bit short and sweet 10-ministers or whatever, what I'm trying to do and my ideas that I want to keep, you know, but it takes, it takes tolerance too. I mean, don't get me wrong, like, again, what I'm trying to invent per se is, is going to be a lot of, it's going to take a lot of patience and empathy from, from other communities too, because while I'm investing in a market that, you know, in a group of fellas that really are still trying to find themselves too, right? I mean, if I wanted it to be easy, I would put an ad out on Craigsist, Facebook, whatever, you know, qualified, you know, framers, technicians, or whatever,

plumbers, but that's not what I'm interested in. I'm interested in the First Nations developing their skills, right? So there's going to be a lot of like kind of ups and downs along the way, right? So my idea, so I'm getting there. So I knew the first thing I had to do was build capacity with my guys, right? Get systems in place, you know, get their conferences up, get vehicles on the road, get tools all together, right? And then all of a sudden, after say the first year, which we are now in, I have a crew guys that can do the work effectively, right? And so now I could actually, you know, but it wasn't without taking risk, right? It wasn't without people investing in my vision and being kind of patient with me because I was still learning these things, how to how to be a manager, how to be, you know, a positive influence on these guys and how to develop their skills too.

And again, it was leaning on each other. It wasn't like I knew everything. I was just hiring people that knew the skills that I needed, right? And I, because I think I had that philosophy, you know, my best friends growing up, he was a maintenance guy in Sieberton, a couple other guys that played soccer with forever. They were expert framers and I knew guys that were just, like, amazing at what they did. And I just took that and utilized it, right? And I was like, hey, I got a job for you. Do you want to do this, right?

Get them to buy into the idea. And like, okay, great. And then they just continue to kind of thrive in it. And so, but I'm like, hey, I'm going to give you these other guys who actually don't know what they're doing. Can you help them? Yeah, okay, right? So it's like there's a lot of things to figure out along the way. Can you describe the journey that somebody may come on?

You did a great job of this when we were just one-on-one of, like, how someone develops, of like hiring them, laying that out, and then supporting them when they're working to get their license back or when they're trying to pay off certain debts or when they're trying to get their feet under them because the job is usually for people, step one. And then the other supports aren't always there. So I'm just curious as to what the development of a person is like within your company. What are you striving towards? Yeah, and that's another thing, too.

I think because everybody's at different areas like you mentioned, like they're kind of at, there are different spots and their development of, you know, some of them have houses. Some of them have children. Some of them don't. And then, you know, I've had guys when I took them on, they hadn't had their license in years, right? And so that was my main goal. I was like, okay, boom, bare minimum. What do you need in life?

You need. financial security you need your license you need um a place to live and i want you to get out of debt like those types of things right i want you to start taking your finances seriously so again yeah for a lot of them was like oh i don't get my license because i owe a lot of money insurance like okay well how much can i could for it and it's like well how about i pay for that and obviously i'm in control of there so we'll pay part of that off each check right and then it's sort of a contractual thing and honestly there's people that have left and they still owe me money but it was just like okay they still have their license and whatever will happen will happen right

universe balances balances itself out. But yeah, I've had, you know, those opportunities where, again, it's like, ooh, I don't have insurance in my car. I owe like $1,800. I'm like, okay, let's do that. Let's lend you the money and then we'll just kind of, you'll slowly pay me off over the years, but focus on the work because you can't do a good job if you're stressed out about your finances or whatever, right? You can't focus on the work, right? So creating that atmosphere of security, right? Like, the only thing I've got to worry about today is punching in and punching out in the sense. Like, that should be sort of your mindset when you're going to work. You should be like, you know, my wife's texting me, you know, like the phones are going to get cut off or this and that or rents do.

You know, those things like those are, those aren't the productive things to really mind, keep your mind wrapped around. So when somebody does come in, I guess the first thing is handshake, boom, it's like, okay, what's your story? What's your skill level? Like, okay, well, where do you want to go, right? Like, and that's where I have to sit people down and say, like, well, what do you see for yourself? And a lot of them have never been asked that question, right? A lot of guys don't like, um, well, I don't know. like, you know, making money, you know, and that's, that's it.

Like, that's a survival tactic, like, daily thing. Just like, well, it's no, I need money. And I'm like, for what, though, right? It's like, so set of target. I was like, okay, well, let's get. And a lot of them will see, you know, it costs about, you know, I guess all inclusively, like $1,800 to get your license back if you have to do the driver and prove a program, stuff like that, because I've done it.

Honestly, like I said, I have history with drinking, driving alcoholism, and those things, right? And so in those moments, like, I had people actually reach out and try to help me, but I was just like, yeah, you know, I don't know, right? So in this moment, I'll have to ask the guy. I was like, okay, we'll put the bigger picture in his head, right? Like, okay, how would I pay for this? And they're like, okay, and then we'll take it off each check. And then they have to do the course.

And then they get their license back, like, within six or seven months or whatever it is. And they're almost like, kind of don't believe it, right? And they're like, okay, this is great. And again, you know, as much as it could be a success story, not always. But like, okay, great. So now you're on the road. Now I can pay you more. Right? Now you're more valuable, right? And so this is my investment starting to pay off.

Now I can put you in a van, go to work, and then I don't know how to like really find rides for you anymore, right? Now you're a self-sufficient man. Now you can drive a kid's practice, you know, those types of things, right? And now you're kind of getting more confidence, right? So people, and that's sketchy because there's a timeline to it. And it's not always easy to read. You start giving opportunities for certain people. They will like to start feeling it. And all of a sudden it's too much for them, right? The road is a little bit rocky. kill of a sudden they got all these responsibilities got all this freedom easy to abuse that if you haven't quite worked for it in a sense right like you're getting all these like kind of new things and so i realizing that so there's a balance like anything whereas a lot of guys will be really grateful

and like wow this is great you know never want to like sacrifice it ever again and you know i've had it up and downs with it but you know creating that opportunity for guys to just take take their lives seriously take themselves seriously right and that there's like and then in terms like that's just mutually beneficial for everybody. Now I've got a person who's responsible, can drive, has a vehicle, you know, actually has pride in his work, has a, you know, is well-fed at home. Like all these things is just good business, right? You know, in a sense, like I said, it's just kind of, it's reciprocated.

If the guys feel good and they're proud of themselves, they just do good work, right? And they're more attentive and can communicate more. And, you know, and again, like, you know, appreciative in some senses, right? but the goal to that is actually really hard like I've I've tried to you know and it's hard to sit there and say like oh I'm just inspiring a whole generation of men to do good work and it's like it's not always perfect I you know I have definitely coddled particular ones and you know paid the prices for it and you know so it's like some some of them need more of a push in others but others some of them need more research too like well actually what is the underlying issues going on here like you seem to do really good and then you you fall off. You can do really good and then you fall off, right? So the people are going through these influxes and you'll never know, right? Because they'll never share with you what's going on the person's life, right? So, but again, it's the statistics for helping people is really low. Like, if you say, you know, I have somebody who's like, changes their life for the great, like, for the

good, the success rate is very low for anybody. So I'm going to say it's about like 25% of the people that I try to kind of, you know, employ and help and do these things, well, it's a good story. I'm going to say roughly. And then eventually, once I get better at it, I'm sure the statistics will increase, like, say, by next year. I'm like, oh, I could read the situation better. I can understand the character a little better. I was like, hey, he's actually going to take this seriously. I think I have a good feeling about him, right?

So, and it's like with any program with, you know, like the AA program, anything, then the First Nations and the Red Roan stuff, like the, you know, a lot of the, a lot of those stats are very low for anybody that fully recovers from addiction. So, I mean, and this is just one avenue, right? Using work as a motivator to actually empower people to make positive change in their lives, right? So, and again, it's basically really hard to first identify what their barriers are, right? And then some of them will be really honest about it, and some people, you know, if their egos are kind of up, they won't say, no, I'm fine.

But I'm like with the bare necessities, you're something that I like to focus on. Like, okay, and I say it like, so first thing first, yeah, license, you know, second thing, like, well, okay, great. And it's, you know, how's your home life? You know, do you got any debts? Like, let's get you sort of organized. So when I, when I started the company, I didn't have any sort of a min system enroll. I didn't have payroll, right?

Like, I didn't do any of that stuff at first. Everything was kind of e-transfer-ish. And then eventually I had an idea. I was like, I want these guys to start, you know, having a track record of, you know, the financial record, right? So then I started using, you know, getting the whole systems in order. And now they got past stuff like that, right? And they're going to have T-4s and all that. And now they're financing vehicles, right?

And it's like for this before they had like no idea. Now, you know, they're using, they understand the importance of having documentation for things. And like, well, now you can, you've established. credit right now you could actually finance these things so i bought cars trucks right and these things for their families and they're fishing in it and all these other things right so i mean there's there's really good stories here because now they're starting to understand finances right a little bit and what what these places are looking for right and they can and so educating themselves a little bit more when they're looking at their pay stuff like what is that what is that what is that right

these fundamental things of well this is taxes and so you know e i and so like you know little benefits of just being more involved um having these like these like these these conversations with the guys, like, okay, you feel like this is annoying that I have to do time cards and stuff, but I need to input this stuff so that you have this so you can get this, right? And so you always have to explain things thoroughly because everybody just wants to think, like, I worked, give me money, right? And there's more to it than that. Absolutely. And valuing the work that you do and understanding that effort, energy, passion, they have a value. And often we struggle with understanding that value because it is, I worked two weeks

at McDonald's and then I get a paycheck, we don't realize that people like Elon Musk, people like Jeff Bezos, whether you think they're great or evil people, they did a lot of investing in the early years that nobody ever saw, that nobody cared about. Like there's stories of Elon Musk sleeping in his factories and surviving in there. And then now he's worth so much money and we're like, oh my gosh, why is he worth that? That's so unreasonable. And it's like, he spent years on the brink of bankruptcy before he made it to where he was. There was huge investments. Jeff Bezos, famous, and then Jim Patterson as well,

fascinating people, because what they did is Jeff Bezos was like, Amazon is going to be the prime delivery system for everything. And so every time he embraced a problem, he was like, how do I build something that will fix that problem, that will make me money as well, that will go back into the company. And so he bought, I don't know if you know Ring, but Ring is a company that you put up at your door and then you click it and it's like a doorbell but then it has a camera in it so it sees you on the other side

and I can see from my phone that you're at my door and I can allow you to leave the package accept the package, whatever it is from my phone from anywhere on planet earth so you don't have to be in the home in order to respond to that and he bought that company for like a billion dollars

because doesn't that tie in perfectly with Amazon? It's the same with Jim Patterson who owns Save on Foods price smart. He also owns all the signage from Chilliwack to Abbotsford. So all those signs, what do they advertise? They advertise a lot of Save On Foods. They advertise a lot of the radio stations. And what does he own? He owns the radio stations. So he has a system in place that complements each other so that he can let people know about his radio station through his signs. And he can let people know about Save On Foods from both of those businesses. And then he has

car dealerships and what are advertised along the road car dealerships. And so people don't realize the brilliance behind a business oftentimes. We go, why is Jim Patterson a billionaire? And one of the only billionaires in Canada that's made it that way. What's because every time they saw a problem, they looked for cool solutions that could also be their own businesses that would thrive independently. And you very much have this mindset of investing in people, but also looking for problems to solve within your business that will allow your business to thrive. And I think that that's really fascinating. And when I did law school, I was studying indigenous entrepreneurship because there is this culture right now when I was even studying

entrepreneurship of people being like, well, indigenous people weren't entrepreneurs. They weren't business people. And that could not be less true. When you're trading a canoe for a hundred salmon, when you're trading like whale blubber for this, like there is prices. And we don't often understand that money existed prior to colonization as well through dentilium shells and through just understanding the value of the work you do. And we're in a time where so many people don't know how to value their time. And through this podcast, I might not be making any money from it right now. But I think that the time I invest in this is of value.

I'm just not receiving that today. So that doesn't mean I won't ever receive money for this. And when somebody comes along and they want to invest, I'm going to price. high because I've invested a lot for it to be here today. And so as much as it isn't worth anything to anybody else, the brand, the effort, the energy, it's all accumulated.

So one day somebody's going to be like, oh, what if I sponsored your podcast? How much? I'm going to say, it's going to be this number. And that sucks for you if you wanted it to be something cheap, because I invested in this. And if I'm going to bring on people, they have to appreciate the years of work that went in before they were sponsors, before they were supporters. And

that's a challenge for so many people when we talk about money in indigenous communities, from my perspective, it's because we're not good at explaining that money is the value you create for other people, for other businesses, for your community. That is a signal. It isn't the end-all and be-all, but it's a signal of the value you've created. And I think we need to do a better job of communicating that to people, because so often it's like, I have 600 bucks, now I'm going to spend 600 bucks,

but it's like, that's how much somebody valued you for the work that you did. and I love construction, landscaping, craftsmanship type work, because there's two levels of value. There's the value you create what shows up on your paycheck, but there's also looking at how you garden something. Like, you see good landscaping. You can see it. When you see all of the lines perfectly drawn in, within like religious ideas, there's the idea of the walled garden, Adam and Eve, and the idea that everything is exactly the way it should be. And as much as nature is abundant, it is controlled. It is beautiful because the waterway just flows just a certain way.

The trees just are carved a certain way. It all looks beautiful and put together. It's the same with a house. And your belief in the value of the home really stands out to me because it's something I feel like is a common trope around indigenous people that we don't value our homes. That when people talk in everyday society about indigenous houses, it's always with how many cars are broken down outside of it. Is it well maintained?

Is it properly painted? And there is a sense of shame that I've seen my clients have around the quality of life they live in their house. And so changing that, giving something for someone to be proud of and having that craftsmanship of somebody being able to be, I built that house. That means more to people than I wrote that report. Like it will always mean more because you can see it.

You can feel it when you're standing. and it feels like a home. That is something different than I filled out this document and it was a good document. Like that doesn't carry the same level of weight as looking at, wow, like, this is really secure house and like the structure. You notice that like old windows,

the one with the one window level, they just feel less secure than the double-paned windows. Like there's a sense of security with that. There's small things that people don't always notice on the surface level, but around the house that can make it like a home and I think that that is likely a great tool for people to be able to be a part of that kind of process. Yeah, I think that's a good point is actually like the value that I was trying

to instill in myself is like, I don't know what my value is yet. Right. So my first year again was like, okay, well, I just need to get my foot the door, right? I need to create something that people value. Like they want to see, I, and I mentioned on my website, I want people to see a creek seater track and be like, oh, cool, and have a good feeling. Not see like, you know, a typical whatever. I'm like, oh, God, that's going to be expensive. Because when you're going to you think about it, when you have somebody to come into your front door, you know, a fridge repairman or whatever, you're thinking how much money is this going to be, right? You want to have a good feeling when you say that level come up. Like, oh, they're going to do good work and I'm going to

get a good deal and I'm going to feel great after. Right. And those are the three combinations of like things that, if anything, right? And so, and that's kind of what we're in the business of, like in that trading, that trading of feeling, right? Like, sense of a sense of, right, like sense of a sense of, right? Like, I mean, I don't really have much use for a bunch of money, like in a sense of, I'm not, and you mentioned Elon Musk and Chris, sorry, it was the name Bezos, Jeff Bezos, yes. And I think they're different philosophies, but also, it's like, it's funny because the two people ahead of those industries typically always are, right? You know, because you have one, and one's always slightly ahead of the other, because it's like,

I feel Elon is, and I'm interested because, you know, I drive an electric car. And I've always, I've always really gravitated towards him because, well, you know that he doesn't, he's not a flashy guy you know he's like he looks at money he's like under what i can invest in right and he's always in this like oh you know his main goal is like you know say one of them is get to mars i want to change the you know the automobile industry i want to do these things these are just like projects for him you know what i mean like he does care about people but he's not like a people person per se like in my in my mind because um you know i don't i don't i don't much care to want to have to be, you know, acknowledged or praised for the good things that I do.

I just want them to happen, you know what I mean? Like, and those things, and I think that's what, you know, I think again, like Elon, he's like, I don't like having to be lifted up for these things. I just think they're cool, right? You know, and that's what a lot of engineers' mindsets are. They just like, they don't like people, they like things. And, you know what I mean? And I think with the history and what motivates you is, again, just to see something get

complete it, right? And then so, and again, it's just not turning back. And I get, you know, a little bit worried sometimes when something's not going on, like, but you're very determined. No, it's going to get, it's going to get done. So again, like you said, you have that mindset. Okay, truck broke down. What do I do? How do I, oh, okay, I should have got BCA, you know, like those things, right? Like, and I was like, okay, so we strategize. Where do I reinvest, okay? And this is the tolerance. And maybe the, I guess the control that business owners have to have, too, is like, if you're a flashy guy, you know, chances are you're not going to actually succeed very much in business

because you're going to do it for the money, right? And that's kind of, that's sort of the thing. And people think that money and ego is where they're motivated. And I'm not saying you're not going to succeed. And maybe Jeff Bezos isn't like that per se, but you can definitely tell he likes stuff. And for Elon, he's like, he just likes things.

Like he just thinks, you know, I was like, I can't wait until I get 22 more billions. So I can feel like what else I can build. Right. He just likes creating things. And similarly so, I think if you're a good business owner, you don't get distracted by the money, right? And you're just thinking all the time, like, wow, did we profit anything there? Great.

I don't know. What should I buy now? Like, I mean, how could I reinvest into this company event? So it's always just adding and adding. And, you know, there's times where you're just, you're more or less just taking hits. You're like, oh, like, can I take this anymore? Or something else that breaks down is going to sink me. And maybe, maybe not, right?

But then it's like there's always, it just teaches you to strategize, right? hey, if I need more of money, then I have to go and maybe borrow some. I really have to stay committed to this idea because a lot of business owners, when they start things, they start depending on people, they take, you know, say $10,000 hit on something, they be like, oh, that was too much. I'm going to just start, you know, firing people and then just stick to myself, stay in a controlled environment, or you take the other mindset and say, what can I learn from this? That was a $10,000 like learning lesson, and then re-stratage, okay, well, I'm not going to do that

anymore, or, hey, I'm going to hire this person for something else, right? Like, I'm going to maybe subcontract that workout, so we're not. specializing in that anymore like you know you just you take just little lessons and maybe um if i hire the subcontractor i you know i could still benefit you know take 10% off the revenue and like that least that's just a contract contractual thing and then i can reinvest that into the the big huge deficit i just took you know what i mean like so you find strategies to pay things off you just can't get intimidated to loss right and again that's that's kind of it right so a lot of these companies that succeed just constantly want to learn they constantly want to problem solve like any

business like the greatest in the top are always looking to improve and i think that's a it's a really healthy mindset to be it say you know for example like i think you'd have the same way if your podcast was like say competing with joe rogan or whoever right you'd be like that wouldn't be something you're just like you wouldn't just sit you're like i'm still looking for the next interview i'm still looking to you know strive and strive and strive and that's the the feeling that i want to give to people is like you know like you know it's not so much saying that you're not good enough just like it's saying that you could always be better right think about it positively like oh dude so if i like sat here after a year and say hey i did it and you know i got

this company and i got all these things and built all these things and i kind of just like sat on that like that's not really there's no end goal to this right and from most things that we do like and people probably ask me like what's your end goal like don't we have one like this company could always provide more services could always be more useful i could always hire more guys i could always take people out of poverty i could always you know create more revenue to start more projects right i could always be talking to more people individuals and could always develop more, you know, like services, right? It's endless, right? I can, you know, I eventually could start creating a closing line if I want and, you know what I mean, and use the revenue to

pay for whatever, right? Like, these different things, like, it's just, it's an ongoing cycle. And I like because, you know, there's always something to do, right? And there's always people to talk to, right? And it's, and you, I've come into contractors, I could feel right out of the gate where we're just really into the quick paycheck. And they don't last long, right? Because, like, you know, they get that, you know, a few thousand dollars revenue. And they're just like, sweet that was easy and they tried again they're hungry and they start buying brand new shiny things and like yeah you know they might succeed because they have a really good work at they're really good at what they do but again it's like well you're not going to get any bigger if you got really high spending

habits and all of a sudden you start buying all these things that you're liable for all right and so I try to stay within my means and I'm in anybody that knows me I'm kind of like somewhat of a frivolous or no frugal guys the other word you know whatever they don't like call me cheap but it's like I just like to live within my means and like to strategize right like you know building things costs a lot of money, right? You know, and it's like, but for me, it's like money well spent, I think. And I mentioned my dad a little while. He's passed now, but, you know, actually, he told me this a lot, like, when I was a kid and it stuck with me.

He's like, oh, and I really hated this red car that we had. It was like this beat up, ugly car. And, you know, it was embarrassing. And, you know, finally we, you know, he took it to, he drove us this, like, drove me to school. schooling and stuff. And obviously I'm like, he's like, you know, we drove it for like a year. And I was like, can we get rid of this car? You know whatever, right? And he's like, you know what? He's like, I bought that car for $500. And I sold it for $500. And, you know, we drove it for a year. He's like, that car made us money in a lot of ways, right? And it was like super easy on gas and this and

that, right? And you know, those things. And then he talked about his truck. He's like, so the truck paid for itself, right? Because he had a truck and he roofed. So you did like three or four roofs with it. And he's like, yeah, that truck paid itself off in a month. I'm like, oh. So I started thinking about those things, right? Like people that actually, you know, purchase things and it's silly well it's not silly but it's like we come to this you know culture where people that make the least amount of money buy the most expensive shit you know what i mean and then you will see business owners that do quite successful don't actually go to the high-end stores they're like i would have spent a five hundred dollars in a pair of

shoes like i'm fine with these things like you know they're very wealthy but they just find more necessary ways to spend it right they're called old money i don't know if you've heard that saying but uh there's new money and then there's old money so rappers are a good example new money because they show it as much as they can. Old money, there's a guy in downtown Chilwaukee, he owns I don't know if he still does, but the Royal Hotel, he owns that whole block

and he dresses like a tradesperson. He wears ratty pants, ratty jacket, like nothing fancy about him, and he has to be worth millions of dollars and have an incredible bank account for everything

that he owns. Doesn't care. That's not what he was in it for, and he's always working on stuff he's always fixing problems and he doesn't look he looks less fancy than i do and uh i'm sure he's doing very well for himself and so that's like all the money and people up in like rider lake uh people in the communities we might think of his um upper echelon or higher quality or the more wealthy people in our community often have that farmer kind of mindset of like i'm not chauvinistic nobody needs to know it doesn't matter because it's just a representation of their success and it's just a number in a bank account and many people

hit those points of like they'll never need all of that money it will just be passed on to their children grandchildren and so on and it's something that really has always fascinated me which is like what is that look like what is financial success look like over seven generations not over two weeks a year because like you see people who gamble a lot um it was just funny uh it was waiting for gas and this lady was like oh I want this lottery ticket and then um the person was like okay went to grab it and she was like no not that one another one like of the exact same version and then he was like actually that's the only one we have left and she was like oh then it must be lucky and it was like no you just said you didn't want it and now since it's the only one you get to

take it and like the whole the whole mindset around gambling is like arbitrary and then if they get 10,000 20 thousand dollars they're going to misspend it by more lottery tickets. They're not going to have a long-term vision because that's not in their nature. Like that's not what they're used to. So so many people like, oh, what I'd do if I won the lottery? And it's like, you wouldn't do any of the things you think you do because you wouldn't know what to do with that money if you had it to begin with because they don't have, now I give you $20,000. You're thinking of what projects can I do? How can I do more? How can I grow this business? Which is going to be fruitful because it's investment. But most people have no idea how to invest their

money in a fruitful way that's going to last long term because one area you talked to me about was investing in communities parks playgrounds sports can you talk about that yeah it's just like because i know that um with capital projects stuff like that um public works mostly it was very something i was interested well i was doing some work and see red because i honestly the the the money spent in parks recreational stuff is huge mental benefits for the next generation right so I mean, even if I had just a basketball court for the little neighborhood that I live in, would just be huge for the kids. They'd be out, so they're not on the road, this and that, right?

I think, I see that as just like a huge benefit. And not only that, you call it Creek Cedar Park, and people will just love you, right? And so, I mean, it's got a lot of, you know, return policies, too. Like, but in the sense of it all, like, it's just good investment. It's just good. It's just what we stand for, right? And it's like, I want to create positive change for the future. And I think if you stay motivated like that, and if you, if you're, you stay motivated like that,

And if you stay focused, like, I can't wait until I can create, you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars for revenue. So then we can actually start investing in things like that, right? And, you know, we're like, oh, it's a tax right off. It's like, it's kind of a myth. But it's like, well, no, because that's sort of the goal here. I was like, hey, we're, you know, we're tradespersons. We want to create, you know, opportunities for our kids, right? Like, so, I mean, if my son wants to be a homebuilder, it's awesome, right?

And, you know, well, guess what? We have to nurture his development until he gets there. And then same with the couple of the guys that I work with. They all got kids. If they're going to work for Creeks here in the future, it's hopefully that they have a good development, good childhood, right? It's just a really, it's a good feeling to say that you were a part of something, right? And that's what this podcast is bigger than me, you know,

that you're part of something bigger than yourself. And, you know, and again, I think this is the entrepreneurial side of things is that you don't, you know that your time is your biggest asset in a lot of ways. And then you stop really, you stop really focusing on the returns of it. You know, you're kind of thinking, like, the return of it is that I'm actually learning and investing in myself, right? And this whole year and everybody, I tell the guys, when you guys make more money and I do,

I have to, it costs a lot of money to keep this thing going because we're in the development stage, right? Everything's in the development stage for the first. I'm going to say five years in some ways, but I, of course, I wanted things to happen fast, and so I took a lot of risk, it costs a lot of money. And, you know what I mean? And so, and it's fine,

it's those hits are my responsibility, right? And say we go and build a park and we go build, you know, say I've done projects for different communities, where like, you know, I don't make any money often because it's like just good, it's good relationship building, right? And, you know, build stairs for elders and I've done these things. Like, I've delivered, paid the guys to deliver, like, firewood to the elders as well. Like, these are, these are like community projects that I want to make sure that I want to make sure that I want to make sure that I want to make sure that I want to make sure that vision in mind, right? Like you said, you're why. You know, I don't know. I can't remember the last thing. So, oh, hey, let's go. Let's make sure we're keeping this flowing because it's just, it's kind of what we have to keep that vision in mind, right? Like you said, you're why. I mean, it's like, so, because I want the guys to also feel like they're providing a service, too, right? And then so a lot of the projects that I take on, and this is a very fine line, because what I'm trying to do is offer service, like, way cheaper than the competition, you know, all the other contractors out there.

I'm trying to fit within the First Nations budgets, which aren't, like, huge, right? So I've taken hits on a couple of projects just to keep things going, right? Like, you know, taking money out of my own pocket a bunch of times just to kind of got to keep operations going, which is, you know, it is what it is. my money is the company's my basically in a long wall out of ways like it just goes back and forth like you know um things happen things happen right so um it's just i think it's it's worth knowing that like okay what what i want to do it's not so much my ego like you buy every truck you buy every piece of equipment buy it's like you know some some people at first you get to add to your ego and it gets carried away with you but i mean if you're with the real work the

real i guess the um mark of success i think is if you've actually created something worth remembering, right? And it's like, so some people say, like, you know, oh, man, that guy made a million dollars. Like, nobody cares, really. Like, it's not something that, like, stands the test of time. You know what I mean? Like, you got this reputation. But if you say, hey, Matt, built that park down road, that's still standing. I'm like, that's something. Well, I mean, not Matt. I'm Creek Cedar, right? The company's its own person, that's why I really wanted to incorporate is, like, I wanted to create this thing that Creeks Cedar. And I don't really promote myself, like, visually, right? Like, I don't ever, like, I don't put myself

on the web page. I don't put myself on the Facebook page, right? Yeah, I'm the owner of it. but it's not about me, right? It's just about an idea on a philosophy, right? So if we're building parks, doing really good things, people are like, oh, yeah, Creek Sitter built that, Creeks Cedar do that, and people are like, who's this Creeks Cedar guy anyway? It's like, it's not about the guy,

it's about the company, it's about the philosophy. It's like so. Do you think that's dangerous at all? Because as much as Tesla is Tesla without Elon Musk, you almost need a voice. Like, I've commented, one of my favorite nutritional places is beyond nutrition. One of his challenges is he incorporated

it is beyond nutrition, but the guy behind it is Johnny and people go there for him and they have confidence in him and they love his mindset and his approach. It's the same with Bill from the town butcher. Bill is the person who cared about quality meat before anybody was thinking about quality meat, who cared about like farm fresh eggs before farm fresh eggs matter to anyone. Like he started in 2008 and I'd say a lot of that kind of movement happened in the 2013 areas. And so there's often big movers and shakers behind the business. And if we don't have an opportunity, like people will not connect to the same extent with Tesla

as they do with Elon Musk. Like his name will be remembered just like how Edison, light bulb. Like we know Edison, we know light bulb. Like it's almost like a processor. Do you think that's a challenge at all? That's a good point actually because, you know, if... That's what I struggle with because, again, I mentioned this about Eagle.

And this is my, you know, almost everybody, worst enemy right ego pride costs money tons of it right because if you're here you are trying to dress to impress people around you and i i want to make sure that i'm always keeping that at bay because being of being you know like having addictions in the past like i know that that's the biggest center point of actually ever asking for help um i so i have to regulate that constantly like if i'm disappointed frustrated so i never wanted i never wanted a whole lot of attention around the success of this company because well i didn't didn't want it to shift me, you know what I mean?

So I guess I always wanted to like, okay, acknowledge that this separate being, in a sense, right, this creakseater reputation is self-fulfilling, self-dependence kind of thing, right? So it's not, there's no face to it. But again, I understand, like, that could cause some complications. And I think you're right. Sometimes you do have to be that sort of that figurehead, right? And I think it'll get to that point, but right now it's nice to know that it's sort of this fictitious being in itself to just, it's reliable on doing work.

Because honestly, and this is my, from my experience in different areas, I don't want to be an easy target sometimes, too. Do I have the time and energy and strength to resist a lot of criticism right now? Probably not, right? So, I mean, and again, those things take energy. That's why I really commend you because you promote yourself a lot, which is great. And it takes a lot of courage to do that. Because, again, and in every population, there's people that are really, you know,

they do the chicken shit stuff, and they'll take people down easily enough, and that it's easy to say something negative and feel empowered by it, right? there's these sicknesses, and I feel that. And there's these standards of perfectionism that really are really hurting a lot of people, right? Like I said, the left side of the brain, I think that side, you know, shame, guilt, all those other things, that's not where people want to live. And they are good. They're very powerful manipulation tactics, right, using shame to inspire people, but

control people, right? They are very useful. They are very, but not the way that we want to do. do things. I want to kind of empower people productively, right? And so I try to stay, I don't want to be, do so well that it gets to my head. You know what I mean? And that's why I guess maybe why I want to create this is, this is what we're doing over here, right? Here I am. You know, yes, I am kind of pulling strings over here, but I don't want to stay in the line. I don't want to get acknowledged. I don't want to, you know, all this other stuff. I want that to fall on the guys, right? The good

stuff to fall on the guys, they're the ones doing all the, you know, on-site work, stuff like that. feel, you know, getting the praise because it's worse, it's useful to feel praise, right? And again, taking all the crap, taking all shit from certain things that just don't go right, right? Because it's always in the life of a contractor, you can't have control of everything. So, you know, you weed out the discrepancies, right?

And so I'm like, okay, if I'm taking, if there's an unsatisfied customer, because you can't please everybody, then I'll have that conversation. Don't talk to my guys on site. It might be easier to go and shit on the guy that just painted a room in the wrong color. but you know talk to me about it right i want to be that filter like come here i'll take the head

and then i'll explain to him right in a nice way because a lot of our people are very sensitive right i mean most people are right if i said um you know for example i'm sitting here criticizing hey that's a horrible painting on the wall like what's what are you thinking like you boom that just sits on you because you like you like that painting right you do this and like that's something that you've invested time thought and energy into and then i'm criticizing it like that's hard to take sometimes right especially if it's coming from somebody who's really and just doesn't give a shit about your feelings. Or it really understands your perspectives either, right?

Because everybody's got their own perspectives. They're allowed to. So, and again, it's being able to filter out that information, right? Because, like, some people are really careless with their words, right, a lot of the times. So, and I know that, but the words are important, right? Every information is good, you know, any data, negative, positive is good data, right? If you have somebody who's just crying around all the time on social media, you know, bitch and complaining about all the work that Creeks Sitter did, it's still good information, right?

Like, you still have to look at it and say, like, well, what's, what was their issue? And why are they like that? Because we're not only into the building field. We're also in the helping people field. So in the other sense of it, I could learn how to navigate those clients, right? Like, I have to understand. Like, maybe I could help them out with something else. Maybe it wasn't so much the deck that was their problem.

Maybe there was something else, right? Then I can get to understand them a little better. Like, maybe I can work with the community. Like, hey, this person was really struggling with something. And so I could share that information because, you know, one of my portfolios was health. And I was super interested in mental health. because I need to be in control of that myself. You know, like different people have different mental illnesses

and, you know, I struggle with different anxieties and stuff like that, and I have to really be careful, like where, again, my ego goes, right? Because my ego will get in the way of connection and spirituality and all this stuff, right? It'll separate me into this whole realm of me trying to establish this big empire. And it's like, it's not about an empire. It's about an idea, right? So, yeah, I can't remember where your original question was, but it was, I think it's kind of developing itself into its own,

yeah, it's own sort of animal forbid, and again, you're right, I'll probably have to step in and say, like, okay, here it is, here's the spokeperson, right? And, you know, at the time being, I'm more focused on the guys, which I realized I had to do, right? If I didn't have a foundation, if I didn't have strong workers, if I didn't have all this, then I have nothing to preach, right? So this is where I'm investing in it.

And it's going to be constantly, you know, checking in with them and making life a little bit, you know, good for them, making sure that things are on a good path. And again, you know, life happens. People come to challenges, and I want to make sure that I have the revenue and the holdings to support them. Like, oh, man, you know, my car just broke down and I just don't have the money. It's like, okay, here we go.

Right, here, let me help you with that, right? You don't go to work. Now, you know, I want you to be comfortable. So it's like family dynamic. I don't want to ever be like, well, it's not the policy for us to support that. Because that's why you really get kind of like, because policy keeps you from being a human. Each situation is different. I notice that in certain policies that I've worked with is like we're always trying to

to under you were always trying to keep from you know one out of six people hurt in the system it's like oh no we don't do that because some people will steal or take advantage of it like so what universal balance of stuff why punish the five other people who really need the service right you know what I mean so for example like you so you put a restriction on uh oh like for a food bank let's say like only you can only pull from the food bake once a month or something but what if this family has five kids you know and this other well because one person kept coming every week and they only live by themselves like yeah that's one person right you know but we're keeping five other families starving because we're trying to keep from this one taking

revenge so I'm like policies are just really not all inclusive so it's again it's a lot of case-by-case stuff and so and again people and who enforce these policies don't have the control like the power to change them so and that's why I'm really kind of like you know a little bit shaky on the whole idea yeah so what I want to do is make sure that I have ability in time in order to kind and just really read each scenario logically and, you know, with an empathy, right? So if a guy is like, oh, Matt'll lend you the money if you need to fix your car. Or Mattel, like, well, whose car is it, right? Oh, it's my grandma's or, you know, whatever.

It's like, well, okay, I can't start fixing all of you. So, and again, I want to have the ability to be able to, like, you just read each situation logically, right? It's like, well, okay, I don't have the money to do it now. But, you know, we'll work something out, right? How would I help you with this? But then you put a little extra hours to pay for it off, right? Like, there's always solutions to problems, right? And I don't want to ever just, like, rely on, like, the rules because I'm too tired to really, like, kind of listen to the problem, right?

Because I really, it's, it's more of a problem solver than, you know, than a law enforcer, right? And I think that's where it's a good place to be. You're curious. You want to understand the situation. You want to figure out how to fix it. And that's what guys that are in the building field. And I think most people want to love coming with solutions. I think we're built that way genetically.

We're like, you know, we feel so good. You know, again, it's like, you know, you had a financial situation. You solved it or, hey, you got a broken leg on your chair and you fix it. And you're like, I know, my chair works all of a sudden. I just save myself 20 bucks or whatever it is. I think ego is like a huge challenge for some people. But like, it's all about just putting things into context. Because like there's been tons of news articles written about me.

But you can't eat that up. Like, I didn't even read the one they wrote about me most recently. Like, you can't kind of get lost in the idea that you're, you're important because they're getting some skewed they're asking specific questions about a specific topic it's not you it's not the flaws when you like i trip up the stairs like people don't see that in the news article they don't see me spill something on myself because i i sneezed at the same time like you're still just a person and like i think often people can kind of lose that when they start to get the positive news articles written about them but i want to ask because uh

it's coming up national truth and reconciliation day is coming up your focus has been been housing and housing has been a huge challenge for indigenous communities. How do you see people being meaningfully involved in National Truth and Reconciliation Day? Do you have any thoughts on how people can be a part of the solution from your perspective as someone who builds homes for indigenous people in indigenous communities? How do we think about this from your perspective? Well, I think it's also, it's very different. I mean, because people are still very resentful towards the whole dynamic of like, okay, why are we

forgiving the Pope or whatever, like, why are we doing this whole thing? And I was like, yeah, I'm resentment, it keeps you sick. 100%. I know that much for sure. And, you know what? Again, forgiving people, you're doing yourself a favor in a lot of ways. It's not about them. But again, I think because people don't want to forget because they consistently want to punish. Like, oh, well,

nothing will ever make up for the grievances for that happened to my family. And I continue to struggle. with because they're still dealing with those things. And I constantly think that it's regardless of what happened to us in the past, it's our responsibility today to actually figure out how to get over that, right? I mean, it's like, okay, what are we just going to say? Boom, this happened to me and all of a sudden I'm just going to pass it down to my kids. No, screw that.

Like it's, you know, you have an opportunity here. The tools, the people, everything, they're asking, they're trying to support you, right? They're trying to support you to get you through these things. And, you know, and sometimes people will just kind of sidestep it. And I'm like, no, well, I'd rather be mad. I would rather be resentful and all that of stuff. But I think it's more or less an opportunity to just kind of like speak what information we have, right?

And again, I don't know what the platform is going to be, you know, if there's going to be opportunities to share what I've seen, being in housing development and all that other stuff. And again, I think for me it's education part is that people don't really have the knowledge yet to take care of some of their houses, right? Things go bad and they don't know what to do about it, or they don't know who to call. They'll call the ban office, ban office doesn't know who to call sometimes too.

you know and it's like letting these things kind of it's the mental struggles that we all kind of have like okay what quality and what standard do we want to live by what did our teachers or what did our parents pass down to us we don't know because a lot of the things that they passed down to us were just survival tactics right you know what I mean and I think the reconciliation days is really just an opportunity for everybody to speak their mind and sense of like and not take it personally I see that as an opportunity to just really you know share information you know and And because I know that people will agree or disagree with actually all this reconciliation stuff because, again, it's there's a lot of power in being negative. You know, they will feel there's a lot of like, not good power in a say, like, but not domination either. It's like they, most people are just thriving to feel significant. And it's the quick and easy way to do that is to shit on somebody else, right? And it's like, it's not to say that none of us, you know, had, you know, any of us had, all of us had bad lives, upbringings, but a lot of us did. and we don't understand why, and, you know, and we're only just getting better and better. So, I mean, it's more or less like a mark is like, okay, this is what we had, you know,

we could say in 20 years, 20 years ago, and that set this in motion, right? So I think it's just, you know, if we all kind of just come together and say, like, you know, my perspective doesn't agree with his perspective, but I'm okay with it, like comfortably disagree with things, right? And I think as a home builder, and I say, like, yeah, you know, we're still repairing a lot of the damage that happened years ago and we'll continue to repair, right? And I think coming from a home builder, like, again, that's my favorite thing. It's like this is all about repairing and pairing and pairing, right?

Problem solving and keep going forward, right? If this is something that, you know, is right or wrong, there is really none. And I think, you know, the next step is like, this is just going to be information and data that, you know, we're going to document and say like, oh, wow, this happened 20 years ago and this would happen from it. And from now on, like, we still celebrate these things, right? And I want to kind of like, you know, again, if people ask me offer my input on the situation, then fantastic. Like I, you know, I'll see what little I have to say, but, I mean, within my own lane kind of thing. And I have, like, strong opinions on different matters.

But, again, I don't want to put words into people's mouths either. I won't even comfortably say, you know, what they feel. Because, again, bad or good or whatever negative, positive, it's all good information, right? Because, I mean, if people are hiding how they truly feel, then we can't strategize appropriately, right? So, I mean, again, I think it'll be, it's, I don't know how it's supposed to be celebrated, what it's going to mean to the future generations. But I think, you know, definitely making any change is positively good change sometimes

because, you know, it's hard to say because at least it gives us strategies, incentives, right? It's like, okay, well, that was interesting. We took a risk there, right? And I like calculated risks because, you know, in some ways, like I think about people and men in general that really feel like they rise to the top quicker it's because they take more risks typically

than females sometimes because they have to be more conservative and they have to have a lot more responsibilities most of the time. And so men will always do this and they're like, you know, say this is your target, right? Simon Sinek says it and all of a sudden, all of a sudden they hit their target. Like somehow by some freaking nature they get there and then this, you know, this other employee

is steadily climbing and then they miss the target, right? And all of a sudden this person gets promoted. And this person's like, you know, let alone that was just a fluke but, you mean, that's kind of what we're doing here. And I think just like for people to But to take the chance of actually disrupting some people's attitudes is good progress sometimes, right? You're going to take some hits. You're going to take some, you know, you're just going to have to take it with good information.

Like, okay, great. And not be so afraid of the, you know, the lashback kind of stuff, right? So do you feel like we're on the right path? Do you feel like we are taking steps towards reconciliation on Facebook? It often feels like we're not making progress when you talk about the post. speech or government institutions, often people will comment that there's no progress being made or that we're not living up to promises. Do you personally feel like things are opening up that there are opportunities and that

we are moving in the right direction? Yeah, I try to not take all the news seriously these days too much, but honestly, the fact that we're doing something is better than nothing. And I'm a big strategist around that, right? like people again the negativity will always be louder than the positive in a lot of ways sometimes right because people will actually you know it's it's one of those things we're geared for that right it's like it's like skiers like you know the reason why you know they're going down mountains because they're looking they're focusing on the snow guess if i go down a mountain skis i'm looking at the trees i'm going to hit a tree

you know it's and you will always get to your target if you're focused on it right so that's what professionals focus on they that they see the opportunity they don't see the you know the things that are in their way and i think as entrepreneurs and business don't and leaders like yourself that you know you see opportunities you take it right i have to ask then government institutions government functions um band offices municipal governments federal governments you are a part of your city your communities council now you're an entrepreneur personally i feel like the entrepreneurs are the people who make the real change in a lot of ways they improve our laptops our cell phones our houses those are the people that often end up

making the long-term change for our community, where governments spending policies, they make a difference. It's not nothing, but the mindset change, the cultural change, the aspirations. There's a reason that the United States has the American dream, that they feel that every day and people move all around the world to move there for that American dream, not for the government funding or resources or overloaded government institutions, but for that entrepreneurial dream of Like, if you work hard, if you put your best foot forward, you will succeed. Do you feel like a lot of the advancements we're going to see in terms of the quality of life for indigenous people

is more likely government institutions or in entrepreneurship like yourself? I think entrepreneurship is actually huge and I really accredit people. I think the supports, and again, maybe information like this is like, you know, you have to really have a lot of integrity to do these things, right? Like yourself, you had a goal, you have a mindset because the tip of the tip of you. thing is to get an education, go and do all these things, get financial security, and do that. Business, you really don't know what your path's going to be, right? You can't predict what the market's going to do. You can't predict all these things. Nobody on the planet does. Some people do

really good at it. But I think, you know, again, First Nations are really good entrepreneurs because they honestly, they like their self-motivated. You know, they actually have gifts and skills and they want to share that with people. They love being acknowledged from their community for good pieces of work, whatever it may be. Carver, you know, you develop cakes, all these things. Like, you love sharing that. Like, that's what we're, I think that's really ingrained in us. You know, if I have a skill, you know, I'm, you know, I played soccer most of my life. And if I was, you know, being a soccer, which I was, a soccer coach to my U10 team, I love passing that skill on.

It's just something that we love doing. And then, you know, again, like my grandma was a maid sold pies. And she's like, you know, so-and-so is known for her pies, this and that. So I think, honestly, I think the next shift, it's tough to say. I don't feel like we're, we want to rely on the government. for everything anymore. I think we're definitely taking a shift in our own sort of business, but also it's having supports, you know, maybe people who've kind of taken the risks, you know, and that's what I kind of think, too, is like, if I do this, you know, full wholeheartedly,

if I put everything I got into this and some success comes out of it, mission accomplished, right? And then obviously, so that'll create the, because I think I've seen that now that actually I've kind of put my, you know, I've seen a little bit of people taking, um, risks of their own, right? Like, I'm going to start out of business, so-and-so, and they see little logos on their trucks and stuff and it's like hey cool just catching on right take take the opportunity right business there's no real criteria here right like you're basically inventing this and you're regulating this and the hard work ethic 100% needs to have you know what I mean like your success stick takes how much work you want to invest in it but again you have to enjoy it or

else it's going to kill you you know I mean like a lot of these things are really stressful and I have to again regulate my emotional integrity with this all right like I have to know that I got more gas in the tank to freaking like keep going and if I'm again like you mentioned before is that if I'm not taking care of myself, I'm going to take all the frustration and stress of things not happening the way that I want them to happen out on the people closest to me. Right. And developing those support networks is super detrimental. And I know and that's something that I haven't built so much strengths on in some ways. I have friends, family, and stuff like that to talk to. But I noticed that, you know, you've set it up

quite well for yourself and you have the love and support of a partner that does those things. And again, it's, you know, with children and family, those are those other kind of like facets it's where we could lean on for support too. But it's like, I think the community is starting to get more confidence with themselves. They want to take on. They want to set up a nail student. They want to do these things. It's almost like, well, we need office space because, honestly, First Nations have an opportunity.

Because, again, the cash flow opportunities with not having to pay taxes is huge. I took full advantage of that as much as I possibly can because it's, you know, regardless of the taxation at the end of the year, you have the opportunity to really save yourself some cash flow during the process, right? So, and honestly, the networking that we involve ourselves in, right? Like you come from, so you live on one street, but guess what? You're connected to like a thousand other people automatically. You could just like share, hey, I'm, you know, I'm selling friggin 50-50s.

Boom, you got like 100 messages right off the way. You know that right away. Like, you know, we're really good at, you know, supporting, sponsoring, all these other things, right? We just love being a part of it, right? And you don't get that sort of culture off the reserve kind of thing, right? Because that's what we have and that's what pocket I wanted to fit into. I was like I want my biggest goal here was just to create an organization that serves our people and honestly just keeps people working like I want to survive and I want to grow and I want to

you know and it turns into whatever it does right and it's it's hard you know and again provide people and I always suggest that too with the guys that come in is like hey do you want to be your own business someday well I could show you how right I'm not trying to lock you down here forever if you have this because some of them are just like really have a hard time taking direction but they're very skilled So I'm like, I always leave that door open. I'm like, hey, I, you know, if you don't really like to have to listen to so-and-so, well, let's think about subcontracting you. How about that's get about thinking your business license, right? Stuff like that, right?

Like, just put that mindset in them because, you know, if Creek City is a starting point, then they branched off and then they become their own business. And it's like, hey, I'm hiring you to do this stuff, right? Like, you invoice me, sure enough, I'll pay you, right? I'm not paying you a paycheck anymore. I'm paying you, you know, for work done, completed, right? And that's huge. And that's just creating a lot of, like, education within our, and confidence. right i think that we need that because like just self-reliance thing on the government and

organizations great we do need people making those conversations we do need those mitigators and stuff like that as well and you know people sitting at like the fisheries tables all those other stuff right these are very important that'll ongoing everywhere for the different breed of first nations that we come in the next generation i think we got a lot of we have a lot of creative people have a lot of um the younger generation is very much empowered they're very much unique thinking kind of like and I don't know where it came from but I've seen a lot more control now

of like the impulses right because I mean my generation partied all the time right and did a lot of things and you know had kids at a young age and a generation now they're more or less very much self-propelled they have their own and sort of own little ideas right and they're still figuring themselves out you know COVID really took a

took a really I guess interfered the development obviously in a lot of ways but I think, you know, again, it could be bad or good. I'm not too sure, but now they're all sort of isolating amongst themselves because, you know, I was always looking for the party, whereas now they're kind of trying to stay away from the party. It's this weird thing. You know, it's all online stuff, right?

Like, that's their reality now. And so, but they're also, you know, not harming themselves in some ways, right? So it's kind of, what I see it happening for the next generation. And again, if with people, you know, like yourself, that will inspire people and maybe myself to kind of give them the opportunity, the confidence to take risks, take a chance, you know, invest their money proportionally, right? Like, do it properly. Not like, hey, you made four grand last month.

Hey, let's go buy tires for your truck. Let's help what we try to do something with that. Something funner, right? You know what I mean? Like something a little bit, you know, let's see if we can buy, you know, something that can actually profit off of in long term or create more services. Up your, you know, self-education. Big thing.

Huge thing now. People are like self- like offering programs, teaching things and making tons of money off it because they're sharing what they know. right like and this is you know again something that you even for yourself you could show people how to start a podcast and they'll pay you to do that right simple things like that right like it's not simple i'm sure it's super complicated but it's like not it's something that i would love to do because like you know it'd be nice to just kind of share these things and kind of update people because i do i i do also listen to tons of other podcasters right and just it's it's all great

information because people are very motivated and what they want to share yeah i couldn't agree more I feel like there was a technological revolution in terms of the internet connecting indigenous communities. One of the reasons I started this was with the belief that it breaks my heart that someone on reserve might not ever think of becoming a doctor because it's not their next door neighbor. They can't just go ask, hey, how did you get into that program? Hey, what were the steps you take? What courses did you take? When did you know?

How did you develop that passion? And so like connecting people and making sure you can hear from lawyers, doctors, judges, accountants, people from backgrounds you might not have in your community. It's important to me. I'm running for chief right now of Chihuahawthal. I'm interested. Big challenge we're going to have is we've got a huge deficit of like over $500,000 in housing. If I came to you, what solutions do you have? How do I think about housing in a different way? Because right now it's like, well, we should bug band members. And my mindset is like they are never going to have over a half a million dollars in order order to pay off the deficit. We have to think differently about it. But a big thing is people

want to live on reserve. Yeah, housing is so expensive and to build new housing is a challenge and to do all of this as a challenge. What are your thoughts on how indigenous people can look at housing? How can we make sure that there is a sufficient amount? Yeah, you know what, honestly, and that's perfect, is that, you know, you identify the problem, right? You understand, okay, well, that's not the only problem, right? Okay, and that's why was it there in the first? Because people think automatically, well, go get $500,000 fix the houses. But guess what? Five years you can same problem, right? So, and this is the research opportunity, right? You have a problem. Do some research about it. And also, too, like, okay, you can couple this with other things.

Like, say, you also have an employment issue. Boom, you go to the government, say, I need a grant for $150,000 to go employ a couple of people, right? And then they agree, whatever. So now a sudden you got all this labor force, right? And then you come to a contractor like myself or something that says, like, well, you know, I've been looking for, you know, a project like this. Let's see what we can do. And because with my, again, this is my contracting company. I'm not saying it's completely different than everybody else. But in a way that my goal is slightly different, is like, I'm willing to work with the budget.

So, you know, providing the services, I'm like, well, and again, this is where we've tried to understand our value, right, and say, well, find out what your budget is. That's be the first thing, right? Establish your problem. Find out what the budget is. And then talk to somebody like myself, whoever, that's like, okay, what can we do? What can we, how can we at least say you only have like 300, you know, maybe half the money, right? Well, how do we bandy the situation so then it could start taking care of itself?

So we fix half the houses. Boom, we get people. And all of a sudden they start, you know, reasonable people to actually start developing skills and actually bring more money into the situation, right? Like, okay, there's always strategies, right? And again, it's just like, and bringing more people to the table to talk about it. And I think that's a huge thing because put that deficit strictly on your shoulders. really be really over not it'd be unfair let's say right hey vote him in he better fix this I mean it's it's it's more or less well hey no again those delegating ideas and

responsibilities and I think that's what you're really good at um you're actually just I think bringing people together that'll be the first thing you know to get to a bigger picture and then again it's just like um writing it down in a presentable way to to really find more opportunities right And then I guess it's like doing research, what funding's out there, what is our problem, how do we solve it and not just band-aid it, right? And it's like, because I know when I've talked, I know a lot of people from your community and I've asked them, and a couple people have asked me to build them houses too. And I'm like, so what's your situation, right?

And finances, and that's the key thing too is people don't realize your financial education is huge, right? I mean, you can't really build a business organization or anything with people who don't really understand how money works, right? And so, and I think that's a huge benefit. you know, getting a team that understands budgets. And I've been trying to do that with people in my company as well. I've been slowly introducing these things to them, like, hey, I'm going to give you $8,000 here.

Like, okay, this is how much we got for the project. Break it down. What is our materials? What is our labor costs, right? Being mindset, and that's actually I realize an intellect thing, too. People don't really focus on those things too much, right? They just feel like, oh, things are going okay, I think, and all of a sudden you got $500,000 in the hole, right? So make sure, I think, at the very beginning, that establishing the problem, right, in terms of how did that happen, right?

And not pointing fingers, but, like, as a curious, again, stay curious, you know, on that side of it all. But, you know, you're going to, you know, where something like that, you know, if you get a budget together, and I think a lot of communities do, and, like, Super did the same thing and, you know, write a proposal and get the funding, you know, to really upkeep a lot of these things and talking to CMHC and seeing what, like, health will pitch in, right? And a lot of these projects that happen, like if we're, you know, developing a whole system of apartments. And a lot of departments like partner up with each other. So health, living with housing. And then also you have recreation. So keep this in mind. So for example, if we have to build, say, a 36 unit house or apartment or whatever on the community, they put a gym in there.

Hey, that's sports and rec money. Hey, we got to put a section for elders. Hey, that's elder money, right? And then now it's housing. And then, hey, there's going to be, you know, health and stuff. So, you know, we have all these departments, like money coming from a different size to build, to solve one problem, right? There's always solutions. And again, it's just getting the right people into the rooms and talking about it.

I'm like, oh, well, I have this opportunity with, you know, the government's doing this proposal with helping underdeveloped kids, right? So, again, it's just all these pockets of people, like, just have to strategize and come together. But it's just having those conversations, I think, right? So, and I realized that when I worked over there is that, you know, the department silo themselves, and sometimes. and it's like it's unfortunate because health is always related to housing and it's always related to social justice and it's all these other things too and it's all the departments intertwined in a lot of ways and we depend on like maybe one director to kind of just like get them all together in his head and like make a decision when it's like there should be huge amounts of you know communication between the people that are in charge of making these these running these budgets because like people and again I mentioned I try to give say a budget to one of my guys and like he's he feels like he's responsible for spending it. I'm like, no, it's not what works. You need a job to a good standard.

And then if there's leftovers, fantastic, we push it towards any other projects that may cost us money. You know what I mean? Like, just circling these, there's always weird little financial loopholes, I guess you could say, in pockets of funding that all of a sudden accumulate

into a really extensive, useful amount, right? Like, if I took this, you know, I got six projects going on, I took little pockets of revenue, and all of a sudden I could purchase a truck that will help the company in the future, like that's great right and that's the whole idea it's just like kind of just isolating your budgets right look what do we have what do we have access to right having having all that stuff but that was that was something that would be confronted with me like yeah I would love to just kind of sit down and see what our options are right and again it's just having having those people at the table that really are just looking at the bigger picture of things like how do we solve this because again you know you bring problem solvers not money makers you know those types of things right so yeah and that and that's that's the huge exchange like you know And that's super beneficial for, you know, not trying to sell you on it.

Like, for a company that's developing, too, that's a hook. Say, hey, we've helped you also get out of this and that, you know, and that's, and that's, that's great. And that's good for my reputation. And same thing. I've given loyalties to people who've helped me at the beginning. And I have, you know, my neighbors were my first clients and a couple other people. You know what I mean? And I've, like, you know, offered them free services since then.

And, you know, Scalus is one of the first investors. is the kind of thing with me that say like, okay, well, again, like I said, I did a couple jobs for at cost and I didn't make any money off it, but I was just really trying to build the relationships and say that I was honest, right? And that's really hard to do is to build a reputation with people, build trust, right? And that would be the hugest thing for you to do is how do you find people that you can trust to do this work? Because, again, you have to delegate those responsibilities to somebody who knows how to do the work and you have to have those meetings with them. Like, hey, I don't know, I don't got a good feeling about this guy,

is because feelings everything we're emotional beings right our intuition is built on everything right you know it's like you know I could write you a book a rapport and say this is what creeksite is about but until you meet me until you actually sit down and we have these conversations you have no idea who I am that's one of the big challenges I just had someone reach out and kind of go well you're not involved in very many family events like community family more events and it was like fair enough like in terms of me running for chief and they were like they they feel very skeptical in regards to my leadership because of that because they're like, how do we know? And it's like, first of all, I'm open to attending anything that you would like me to attend. I've never been

invited. And it's, I don't think it my job to go and bother you to figure out why I'm not being invited. That's your call on whether or not you think I'd be a good guest. So there's that piece. For me, it's like, I think I bring a background in policy, how to lead a community. I think I also bring like external relationships. I think I know how to communicate with people, sit down, figure out where we can work together and be humble and no, I don't have all the answers. The best I can do is bring the best people in, sit down with them and figure out what we can do from there. And that is, I think, the role of any good leader, the challenge I think my community has right now is we're not partnering externally with anyone. We're completely focused on our

internal mechanisms, our internal squabbles. And so somebody, if you came up to the door and knocked and said, hey, do you guys need any help? We wouldn't even be able to focus on that because we're still focused on what's going on with all of our portfolios that we're not thinking like, well, who are the movers and chakers outside of our community that we can partner with to get things done? And I think that's hopefully what my ability would be to sit down and go, okay, how do we do we do a garrison style design in our community where we're planning the whole community to come together because that's the big challenge is like we build a house but there's no sidewalks there's no and seabirds kicking our ass right now and i'm a competitive person i love

what seabird's doing and i want my community to have that i'm like i see the sidewalks coming and i see all of the backyard developments way in the back area and i'm like this is good this is what you want you want the feeling of sidewalks and lights and safety and community and people walking their kids down the road you want that sense of security you don't want to be like is it safe? Is there a bear out there? You want like some sense of security and some sense of like logical community development. And that's what I see Garrison has is like all it all makes sense. The back areas make sense. Everything was pre-designed of like this is how it's going to be designed. It wasn't like this. This house is going to be kind of like this. And then we'll put an apartment

next to it. And then we'll put townhouses next to it and like, well, what was it the long term plan here? That's why zoning can be so valuable is because if you zone everything properly and you go, we want to do a hundred residential places here. We want people to have rentals in the back, like whatever it is, but you want it to all kind of come together. And I think that first, it's a community consultation. What does the community want? Then let's

go implement that. Let's bring about housing. So people are proud of where they live. And I see Scowluck doing those five, I don't know if you've seen them. They're right near the indigenous bloom. But they have like five houses, but they're all like sectioned off. I think that that's like a very affordable way to kind of get

people started who don't have housing. right now or who are living homeless and like how do we do this so we're we're happy with our results yeah i think actually like it's it's very useful and i think you've interviewed plenty of leaders and they you know keeping that humility is is key and you know understanding he weaponized them and not sorry that sounds bad but it's like yeah no i didn't grow up around here you know yeah no i don't have kids or whatever like you just kind of take the weapons away from but again i'm willing to have these conversations right and it's like i'm going to offer this this this and this and this and this right And it's like, it's great because, you know, it's really hard to keep you cool and people are confronting you with these things.

Like, no, I fully acknowledge it, you know, again, but I respect and all the family culture, right? And just I'm willing to learn and sit down. I'm willing. And that's the hugest things because people always assume in leadership that you have all the answers. I'm like, no, I'm just willing to figure them out, right? And it's like, and that's kind of, and that's sort of the philosophy that I could try to keep myself. It's like, I don't know what I'm doing half time, but I know that I have the capacity to figure it out, right? And as if you're disrupted by certain things,

well, let me know. Again, it's all information. And if it's very important to you, then I'll figure it out, right? And again, it's like, okay, because people want to buy, buy into the type of person you are to one thing, right? And how useful you are, right?

And we all want to be really useful. And I think, like, you know, we all come with barriers. Like, so, again, my benefit of Rwane was in politics or getting elected, like I, you know, surprisingly did really well. and was, and I still have to make amends for those kind of my decisions to step back and not finish the term, but I, you know, I felt like I had a bigger purpose in terms of I learned as much as I did there, and now I still want to contribute to the community in a different way, right? And I think, you know, just you doing this, spending countless hours, like setting these things up and interviewing really, you know, people that actually have a lot to offer, right? You're already giving back in a lot of ways. And this is just like, you know, on your own steam in a lot of ways, right? And, you know, and that's, that's, huge and that that speaks a lot to you know speaks volumes of what your intentions are with the

people and it's like you know and especially in politics you're you're 24-7 right you're you know you're you know you're interviewed people like uh you know you know Michael Dave and you know Derek I've heard a couple of those guys and I know them personally and then you know a couple of my family members so you're you're not you're not afraid of a challenge and I think that's that's probably the biggest thing you can kind of show these people right it's like it's a challenge but I'm not afraid of it I'll figure it out And then just have that really impactful way to expressing it. But yeah, land use plans.

People want to see these. And I know, and I'm not too familiar with you also. But also, yes, you guys got all these, what I really strongly believe in politics is that, you know, we silo each community, which is the government strategy. Anyway, boom, boom, boom, pocket everybody. But it's like if we had this sort of, like, you know, one monthly Zoom meeting with each of the leaders in, like, at least five communities, like, so many problems could get solved quicker. Like, we're all doing the same work. And we're not, you know what I mean? We're spending the same of money where it could be like a 10 minute phone call with somebody from checking like, how did you do this?

Oh, okay, sweet. Boom, thousands of dollars saved there, right? Like, we're not wasting resources and energy, like trying to solve something that somebody did last year. You know what I mean? So communication, huge. And also like that humility that you have. Like, hey, Seward's, how did you get this? And you can call me, whoever's in the lands department.

Like, what did you do? And they should be willing to answer those questions. Right? Like, where did you got? And it's like, but I think, again, each community. is their own individual in a lot of ways. And so, you know, what you may seem Seward has beneficial. Like, we're also lacking in the other areas, right?

The Twasso is very, so again, it's that trading of information, right? So you've got to figure out what your assets are and what are your pros and cons and what you want from each other. Trading this information is huge, and it saves a lot of time. Again, especially, like you said, just keeping that humility and saying, like, and that's what I realize in politics, and we don't meet with other communities very often. The most rewarding times I've had were Jamie Sterrett and stuff like that when we've actually had governmental development classes

where we broke up into focus groups and it's like we actually just shared little tidbits about what we're going on in our community and especially it was during COVID so we're like sitting there like oh does this person say this it's very similar so we're all meeting trying to figure out these problems isolate ourselves in our own little community but every community is talking about it right and some of this there's just weird and they all have really good ideas to how to get to the moment like Jayahus is doing this. Sieber's doing this, Jam's doing this, like all the same problems.

I mean, just cover, for example. But, I mean, it would take five minutes, and then we'd all come with like, oh, share each other's ideas or email each other. Like, hey, this is what Chales doing, jam, doing, boom. Have this network, right? But it just doesn't seem to happen a lot of the times. So, but, I mean, I did this informally because, well, this is where I mentioned. I played a lot of soccer. I connect people with people all the time through those, through sports, right?

So, you know, my coach was from Chalas, and I have another one from Skywlett. I have, like, players from Chakton, I played with Derek and Tyler and all these other guys. And, you know, I have all these players, and we come together and we just bullshit, right? And then we talk about what's going on and we talk about politics, we talk about this. And it's like, that's where we congregate, right, and the level of sport. And it's just a multifaceted kind of thing. And we all have each of those ideas and it's nothing, it's all off the record, of course. And it's like, those are real conversations and useful ideas come from, right?

It's just kind of like when it's not, there's no minutes, right? There's no this, there's no that. It's no, like, you know, there's not in a boardroom. They're just at places where people are being themselves. And they're very passionate about the work they do, right? So I think you've already developed yourself, like, a really good social network, especially doing all these things that now you have this, like, list of all these people in your contacts. You could ask any second of the day of, like, certain things, right?

Because you've developed really strong relationships with them, right? Yeah, that is the trip is, like, how I just sat down with Andrew Victor. And he was like, we used to talk to Chihuatho, and it's like, how do we not talk? We have the same problems. It's like we need to be meeting to go over these things and figure out how we can do things better and thinking about like what strategy did you use. Oh, that was a problem and like things arose there. But also just pooling and working collaboratively where we can make that make sense of like we all have our own like finance managers. Well, how about we get one really qualified person to try and carry on more and then make sure they have the admin staff to manage it?

Like why can't we collaborate more in those regards? And I know there's hesitations with that because. When one community gets more money, then other communities go like, well, we feel underserved. We feel undervalued. So there's, like, you have to put in mechanisms to kind of prevent that feeling of like, oh, why are they always over there? Why are they so hard to get a hold of? So there's challenges with that.

But I think there's tons of opportunities to like overcome that if we all get together. And that's, I agree. The big challenge is like we've been taught like we need to do our own thing and be separate. And it's like it really slows us down because we can't even hear about how, did you address that? Okay, that community addressed it that way, that community addressed it this way. And so I think that's a valuable next step. Can you tell people how they can connect with your business, how they can follow you online? I love that you have your staff members on your website, highlighting them, showing them the value they bring to your organization. Can you

tell people how they can connect? Yeah, and so they got the Facebook page, and again, it hasn't been upredated recently, but, and also that, you know, Creeks here contracting on Facebook as well. the my website of creekseater.com and again there's a link on there too and you can email me go straight to my um right to my inbox um but again too and i got my guys roaming around just you know i told them all the time as anybody approaches you give them a car i talked to them really friendly right and supported my number and again it's you know again it's my contact in there until things change and but um for the most part yeah it's it's it's a lot of word of mouth too and i again i've you've sent me some information about e-commerce grants and stuff like that and i just

I've really hesitant sometimes. You never want to get too big, too fast. But again, I've always never shy away from it. I have a hard time turning down work. But again, too, it's like in the capacity of changing and growing business, I want, I would love to have people more merchants and working with us and also hiring us too, right? Like that's what I meant to. So again, if you're looking for work, if you're, you know, obviously have projects that you

want us to be a part of and just to talk, you know, talking is free. And again, you get called the number, email, all that stuff that's on the website. it's all right to me and then I'm assuming after this might get a couple of interesting clients that have come some offers for us

but yeah that's probably the best way to do it awesome I have really enjoyed this I was so excited after our first conversation I was like this needs to be a podcast episode because you are passionate in a way that so many people lose that spark in the first year so many people get jaded

frustrated with bureaucracy with people not showing up, people not always paying, what they need to pay, people can get bitter and resentful and think I tried to do good and what a waste of my time to try in. And your mindset of like, okay, like that's them, I'm going to keep moving forward. The philosophy is good, but they're not there yet. And that's okay. That's life. Not everybody's going to be ready for that. There's only 25% who are ready to make that big step. But I think your philosophy has not been well implemented outside of the tourism industry, outside of shops and restaurants that people are used to,

where they kind of expect maybe that philosophy of giving back and trying to support the community. Your ethos seems so different than anything I've ever heard. And it's why I wanted to sit down with you is because I think we're lucky that you're trying this. I think you set the example for other people to think, how can I find whatever I'm doing, whether it's electrical plumbing, whether it's starting a clothing line, whether it's whatever it is, how can I make this have a positive impact that causes the individual to improve, it causes the community to improve, it causes me to improve, and it causes others who hear about it to want to improve. Like, that's a very challenging endeavor to take on, but so worthwhile, and something

that I just, I think is so unique and so important. So it's been an honor to sit down with you to be able to talk about these things because I think that they're just so inspiring. Right. Appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you.