Nuanced. - 93. Willie Sellars: Chief of Williams Lake First Nation, Hockey Player & Author

Episode Date: February 20, 2023

In a conversation with Willie Sellars, Aaron inquires about his journey to becoming Chief of the Williams Lake First Nation, and delves into the themes of his books "Dipnetting with Dad" and "Hockey with Dad." They also chat about Willie's love for hockey and exchange thoughts on the prospects for the future of First Nation communities.Willie Sellars is a member of the Williams Lake First Nation who became one of the youngest elected councillors in his community's history at age 23. He served on council for a decade before being elected Chief in 2018, and then re-elected for a second term. As Chief, Willie oversaw the negotiation of British Columbia's first government-to-government agreement on cannabis, which led to the development of Sugar Cane Cannabis, the province's first farm-gate cannabis facility. Willie is also an award-winning children's book author, having written "Dipnetting with Dad" and "Hockey with Dad".Send us a textThe "What's Going On?" PodcastThink casual, relatable discussions like you'd overhear in a barbershop....Listen on: Apple Podcasts   SpotifySupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

I mean, that was the first thing that I looked at, actually, when you reached out. I was like, how many episodes this guy has? Yeah, what are we at now? 92, I think. This guy's legit. Awesome. I really appreciate you being willing to come on because I've been following your work for a very long time now. And again, you're just a person I find really inspirational.

You work incredibly hard. You set the example for others, and you're paving a path for others to be proud of their community. So would you mind first starting out with a brief introduction of yourself, your community and your name? Waitup, Genshwa, Willie Sellers, could be to get a lot to swine-won-Jewki-new. Everyone, I come from the Sequipment Territory. Williams Lake First Nation is the community that I'm the chief of, and we're located in the interior of British. Columbia. If you're unfamiliar with this equipment territory, it ranges right from the north here in Williams Lake all the way down to the Kootenies in the south. So I mean, there's, of course,

some boundary issues like there are in every single nation probably in this country. So I'm sure the Tuna'a have a dispute to be made and the Yocotina have a dispute to be made and the Gheff that was dispute to be made. But the key thing is, is that historically that was our territory. holding it up in the way that we do it, the way that we conduct businesses, is how we do here at W. LF.N. So I appreciate it of the invite and just happy to be here today. It's my pleasure. Would you mind describing what it means to come from your community? We know that the territories range, the traditions range, and I'm just curious, from your perspective, what does it mean to be from your community? What are some of the highlights that

stand out to you? Yeah, I mean, really blessed here at W.O. Fent, in my opinion, We have a great location located outside the city of Williams Lake. Right along a major highway corridor, resource-based economy, it's mining, it's ranching, it's forestry. We have Enbridge in the territory, Pembina pipelines, natural gas pipelines. But looking at who we are as a people historically and how we embrace that resource-based economy and finding the balance between being stewards of the land, but then also at the same time creating these revenue streams and providing opportunity due to our membership to provide for their families.

In an era where we aren't living off of the land anymore, we're finding that balance most or even our family circles. I feel pretty blessed. We have a location that isn't overpopulated. We have access to every biogeopulated. climatic zone within an hour of what it was like. Sorry, could you describe that a little bit? Yeah, so, so we have access to deserts.

We have access to rainforests, grasslands. I mean, you name it within an hour. We have access to it here at WLSN. You could be out of self-service within 30 minutes and out on the land. And that's uncommon in today's world. The beauty of the territory and having an opportunity to get out on the land and help ourselves find that balance is a way that we grew up, you know. And I look at, you know, how blessed we are to be from an area,

to be bored in an era that we are, and people take over granted. And I truly do believe that you get down into the city. And I remember how exciting the city used to be. And as a kid, you get down, you see the big buildings, and there's just so much stuff in so many stores, and they like stuff to do but then you like try and travel five blocks

and find a parking spot and uh and you get frustrated really quickly and it's just overwhelming as you get older you start to realize just you know how gorgeous and how lucky we are to be from the Kerabur Jokhoden from Sequipululu from the city of Williams Lake

and that's you know what we need to instill in our youth as well you know we wanted to get out there and see the world, but we also want them to make sure that they realize how good they have it here in Lyme's like just how beautiful region we live in. We see that more and more as people start to sell their properties and move back into these rural communities because it is not only affordable, but it is just a better quality of life. I couldn't agree more. And I think that interconnectedness is something that so many people are missing out on. I think the land has so many lessons to teach

people about balance, about responsibility, about the power that a storm can have. There's just a lot to take away from it. And it's humbling. And it seems like that's a piece that so many people are missing right now. When you're not near a giant city and you don't have all of that light pollution, you see the stars and you understand how small you are. When you're out in the forest and you hear a bear or you hear a cougar, you understand how vulnerable you are. And I think it's really important that we seek that out in healthy ways. Obviously, don't go looking to find a bear, but have a connection with nature and the land, and hopefully that will humble you and give you a greater appreciation for what it means to be alive. Totally. I mean, you look at creative and

exciting ways to get rid of the land in the summer, you know, even in the winter, but summer as an example, you know, the kids get off school and we get to the house and it's like, we want to go fishing down the creek it's five minutes you know we're ripping trout out we're we're uh hook in uh soccer fish and in it's fishing season down at the river it's 30 minutes we got sockeye salmon in the pit you know we want to go for some deer it's a 20 minute walk up the hill and we have access to this massive uh forest range in in crown land and in reserve land that, you know, in the city or in these more urban centers, you don't. And I think that it is a pretty important part of, you know, how we want to raise our kids.

But, you know, give them those teachings. And that's a big part of, you know, being indigenous and being able to continue to tell that story. And I just think about the way that I was raised. And my dad, he went to residential school over at St. Joseph's mission. And my grandma passed away when I was really young and so did my grandpa and my dad's side. I never got any of that. No, it was not until I got a little bit older that I was able to understand the importance of it. And it was uncles and it was friends that took me under their wing and actually showed that to me.

And now I'm in a position where I can teach my kids that and that's only that they're raised. It's such an important part of our bounds as indigenous people to hold up those traditional. traditions and hold up that culture. But at the same time, I mean, it's a tech world we live in. I mean, we're in a podcast right now. My kids know what odd casts are. It's just so bizarre. And making sure that we are grounded and we make sure that we're focusing on that

balance moving forward, passing those teaching down is just so important. We can't understand it at all. that's why again I mean you go back to I guess how blessed we are to be from where we are here in a Williams lake I mean we still have high-speed internet can you talk about it seems like the lack of access to your stories and culture inspired you to want to protect that for your children would you be able to talk about how maybe we think that just an like having full access would be perfect but it seems like you're more protective of it you're more understanding of the value of it because maybe you had less access to it so you see the value in a different way would you mind

just talking about how that's sort of shaped your understanding yeah i mean i grew up in a household it was like one of those radical households so i remember getting up as a kid and my parents would be sitting around the dinner table and are having coffee and shooting you know having conversation about how corrupt the band was, you know, how corrupt counsel was, how, you know, many things were doing wrong, how, you know,

just unbalanced our leadership in our community. And I remember thinking to myself, like, okay, all they talk about is how bad chief and council is. But, I mean, none of them were on council or whatever run for council, and it was challenged for me to wrap my head around, but right away it was still that, me that in order to make a difference of my community, I'm going to have to be in one of these

leadership positions. So, you know, I was raised by my mom, the non-indigenous person in an indigenous community. She did her best to teach us the culture and hold up, you know, who we are of his acquaintance. But, I mean, not growing up in that world herself. It was very challenging, but, you know, some things that she did instill in me were hard work, you know, the value of finding a career and just those tools that make you a good human and be forever grateful for her for that she didn't teach me about my culture and she didn't teach my language and she didn't teach me about the ceremonies she tried her best but she instilled those other tools that made me who I am today and I will be honestly forever grateful for that so as I progress through you know

being a young person, going to post-secondary, and just figuring out life, I still had at the back of my mind that I wanted to be in one of these leadership positions. I got elected in Young, 23. I did 10 years on council before being elected in this chief in 2018, and now I'm currently in my second term. So what we've been able to do during the course of my time in leadership, and again, I've been blessed in leadership. I've always been a part of a very, you know, progress.

progressive and supportive counsel. The chief at the time, my entire time in leadership, until I became the chief was Anne Louis, you know, one of my mentors in life. She sits back on council now and keeps you on my toes. But, you know, making sure that we were doing those little changes throughout our time in leadership that are going to make a difference. It was always on the, was always a topic of discussion even to this day.

everybody wants it to happen you know like that and that is this misconception that indigenous communities have and really Canadians have about you know these leadership positions in this in our communities and in this country is that i mean it's easy it'll happen overnight well i mean there's a lot of work that goes into for example we're sitting in this brand new administration building that we build it was anne's vision to build this building but it probably took us you know four years of prep and then another the two years of construction to do it. You know, we want to build a new rec center, community center in a cultural center. Well, I mean, I'm just trying to wrap my head around and said, well, we'll break

around in the spring. You know, that's what the community, I've had comments like that. And it's just like, well, it's going to take us at minimum a year and a half of prep and planning. And then we have to build it, which is going to be another two years. People start thinking about that like, oh, shoot, well, I thought we could just build that, you know, things don't happen like that. Like our culture department, as we build that out,

we're starting to see this cool revitalization of our songs and of that language. And it's because these champions in the community are like taking it and running with it. We're building this cultural department to help, you know, support and to help, you know, incubate. But it's those individuals that are seeing that, that are getting inspired, that are really running with it, that we're seeing this up. take in that revitalization process. The biggest part of, I guess, my lesson is growing up is things don't happen overnight. They take time and we have to be patient and that's a lesson on its own.

But the key thing is just to not get frustrated because it's not happening quick enough. I just had a discussion actually with my son last night, a big hockey guy, sketch team. and um we stayed after practice i let him come to our senior men's practice and it's late and he's just super fired about it but we stayed after practice we're working on the one timers and he's like not getting and he's getting frustrated but he's getting some on the net and he's getting some hard and we're on the way home and he's just like i suck and i'm the worst it's like no man just trust the process you know he ain't going to get a perfect one-timer overnight and any NHL or any good hockey player will attest to that put the work in and trust the

process please just don't get frustrated when they're killing me and kids don't want to hear that but it's funny to me I laughed about it as he went to bed because I know where he's coming from and I understand you just hope that as you build these humans in your lives build out these these kids to grow up to be good people that you're doing a good job Mary Angel Playbook around that stuff. It's really easy to point the finger at people, to be frustrated at the federal government, provincial government, municipal government, indigenous government systems, and to just put the blame on them and to say, we don't have these things because people are awful, they're not fair, they're getting paid off, there's all these perverse incentives, it's easy to stay there and you see people get stuck there. What inspired you to say, I could be that difference? I could change the system.

I could participate and make the system better in some way. Because if everybody in the room is saying that chief and counsels this type of way and we can't trust them and they're bad people, it takes a certain level of independence and confidence in yourself to say, no, I think I could do something here. I think I could contribute in some way. Yeah. And I mean, I get all the glory and I get all the criticism. and, you know, and council does as well. But, I mean, we were only as good as our staff at W. Olson.

And, you know, all the successes that we've had over the past 15 years, you know, over the past 10 years, over the past five years, has been because of that staff that we have. And that was tough to understand, too. I was talking to a former chief, multiple former chiefs. And, you know, always the story was in their time, they were the social worker, they were the rec manager. They were the lawyer.

And in today's day and age, in the system that we have here, and again, saw perfect, and every community is different, obviously. But, I mean, we have an unbelievable health team, great finance team, our administration is far none. We have a whole entire rec department. You know, we're able to do these things because of the own source revenue that we bring in and, you know, offset funding that we get from ISC. But, you know, when I sit at the front and we're getting, you know, the praise from everybody on what we're doing,

I mean, a big part of our success is acknowledging the work that's being done by everybody else. Like I was telling you before in the podcast, we were hosting the New Hulk tonight. They are repatriating a totem pole from the Royal British Columbia Museum back to their homelands of Belmontia. Kula. And it's a massive deal. We offered up to host a feast in WLSN to honor what they're doing and give our community an opportunity to go and be a part of this history making. We'll repeat, our culture and our history back to our communities is a massive part of this healing journey that we're on as a country. And bringing back those feasts, I thought that was pretty cool but we have our cultural coordinator in here and he has everything ready to go you know he's got

the ceremony ready you know the elders are queued up and uh excited and and how everything is going to go today i can do that like i i couldn't you know be that cultural leader um because i just don't know how and and that's a key part like the humility piece i think is a big part of a big part of being in these leadership roles is understanding what you're good at and understanding, you know, when to ask for help. And that is a crutch in some indigenous communities where we just try and do too much and we burn ourselves out. So the big part of it, of course, is as well finding that balance.

For me, the balance is different. I play a lot of hockey. And some people critique me for it. But, you know, I wouldn't be of level mind if I didn't. have an outlet of some sort. But then there's also other things like getting into the sweat, picking up my drum, learning new songs. These are all parts of it, you know, holding my newborn baby and making him laugh. Finding time for those things as well is a big part of it. So, you know, when you talk about decision making in community and being the difference, it's acknowledging that

we have this amazing team that we're doing it together, not as a single person. I think that that's really important because it is bigger than you, and you being able to find your role in all of this helps others kind of see a path, and it's exhausting when you're misinterpreted or misunderstood or a decision isn't pointed out properly. How does hockey impact your ability to keep going? Because it sounds like you've gotten maybe some negativity towards that but you need a team behind you that supports you but you also need to feel inspired and feel refreshed and renewed when you're going into a long day of Zoom meetings and interviews and all the work that goes into a day how does hockey play a role in that

yeah i mean it is a part of the balance where i'm able to get into that room with the boys laugh and joke get onto the ice and participate in or physical activity let loose of, you know, all of that stress, frustration, and any anger that you have, I mean, the amount of time that I dedicate to getting on the ice is, you know, where, you know, I get it sometimes, but, you know, it's something that I need because we're always, you know, like honestly, there's a ton of craze, but there's a lot of critique, too. And that's not unfamiliar in indigenous communities, everybody's pointing the finger. what's going wrong or you know only hearing one side of the story and immediately throwing blame and shade

and it is what it is we signed up for these positions and and we could take it but you know we didn't get an outlet every once in a while and uh you know a big part of it again cocky but getting out of the land is a big one too like i was saying picking up that drum listening to the songs and doing those things you know it's a there's a tough position these political spots and if we don't make sure that we are balanced in our approach to them and we'll burn ourselves out and once we're burnt out and tired and stress and i mean what good are we to our community in those instances yeah and then you get jaded i joined council in september and you want to be able to keep that vision that you came in with. And it was very important to me to run on a real platform of saying what I was going

to do so that at the end of the term, I could say whether or not I had met the goals that I had set out, but also to make sure that I remain positive and inspirational because the reason that some people get so frustrated is because they don't know what the vision is. They don't know where they're going. They don't know if things are going to be better in five years or 10 years or if things are going to be the same. And I think one thing you were mentioning earlier is like things take time and it's tough because for First Nations communities, it's different than a municipality in that often if you're a municipality, you have maybe a rec center and then you're like, well, let's upgrade that rec center to something better in 10 years. Where for a First Nation community,

it's often we don't have a rec center. We've never had a rec center and we really, really want a rec center. And so telling somebody, it's going to be six years is not something people get excited about because they're like, that's my kids are going to be grown up. That's too far away. that's not going to help today. What's going to help today? And I think that that's such a challenge to navigate those conversations because you want to continue to inspire them because they're going to be working there.

Maybe their kids will be attending there. You want to keep that investment, even if you don't see it tomorrow or next week. I mean, this is the challenging thing about our communities. There's this misconception not only in our communities but also in the general public that ISC funds everything that we do. You know, we don't have to pay anything because the government pays for it. We have over 90 staff here, WOSN, 50% of which is covered by ISC, so indigenous services Canada.

You know, the rest is covered through own source revenue. You know, so, hey, we don't have a rec department. Well, that's fully funded on source revenue. Oh, hey, we don't have a culture department. No, fully funded. Okay, you know, an elders grew, a, um, an after school program, a daycare. and you go down the list of things that we provide through the revenue of streams that we bring in by working collaboratively and creating partnerships and building businesses and this is the balance that I always talk about with the elders well I know you're against that pipeline project I know you're against that mine operating in our territory but we inherited those resources into our territory you know into into our world would I support a brand new mine in the territory not likely but I mean existing mines and existing pipelines

I mean we should be seeing some sort of benefit from them because we need to pay for all the things that we want to do the healing of our community we put over 400K into our Powell Arbor last year talk about a renovation that is instilling pride into the community that money came from our relationship with Mount Paul and mine and the renewed impact benefit of agreement that we have. And that's a tough balance to have and a tough discussion to have with

our elders and with some of our graphs risk movement because it's not something that they can get behind. But at the same time, they want better services for their families. And that's the balance that we need to find. I mean, it's tough. And those are tough discussions to have. But again, I mean, communication is key to success in these instances in making sure that the community, the voice, are being heard when they're bringing it forward and that we are listening is uh is also a key part of that i mean a lot of the time membership wants to you know be able to voice their opinion we can't hold them down and doing that sometimes uh you know we we don't see eye to eye but it's how we move forward as a as a collective or is going to see the benefit for future generations i have these

discussions all the time you know well i i don't agree but you know i'm listening And finding compromises, it's tough. We're the balance of compromiser in these communities. Like you're saying, you wanted to be like a municipality or a provincial government, but in the reality, every community member has access to the chief in some way or form, has access to the council, some way or form. They'll make sure to exercise that when the time comes and they want to voice their opinion on things. Who are we to say, no, sorry, not today, go through, you know, it's stuff.

Yeah, and it breaks my heart because we're often put in a circumstance that others aren't, which is you have to often choose between poverty and investing in things that are going to improve the socioeconomic position of the membership. and I'm a huge believer in that it is not fair to make communities in these circumstances choose between extracting natural resources and poverty. Like that's just an untenable, there's a no-win situation there, but I think you have to prioritize people's right to have a quality life, clean water, a warm home during the winter, a cool home during the summer, like basic things that aren't even a question.

Two blocks from my community are, something that we're working towards and trying to improve. And there's a weight on our shoulders as indigenous people of like, we don't want to harm the land, but we can't live in these circumstances and we can't continue to burn wood and we can't continue to rely on like poor fuel sources in order to survive for the benefit of others when they don't have to make that same decision. I mean, everyone is a cell phone or a tablet or, you know, a computer drives vehicles, you know, turns the heat up, has fresh water.

I mean, these things we take, these amenities, we take them for granted nowadays. And, you know, how we get them is through, you know, bite blinds and resource extraction. And it's just a reality of the life that we live. I mean, I'm not saying push them all through and support them all, but I'm saying just make sure that we have a seat at the table

so that we know what's going on. in making sure that, you know, we educate our community on the impacts that are happening or could potentially happen and how we're getting in front of them, you know, with our partners and being actual environmental stewards of the land and of the territory. You know, not easy discussions to have, of course, but necessary. I'm interested what has it been like to move into this leadership position? Obviously, you had a vision of it from the outset, but what has it been like to be chief? Has it been more challenging than you expected?

Was it more closely similar to what you expected? How much did things change when you were able to take on that position? No, I mean, there's no real job description or a cheap position or a leadership position. There's a general idea. It really is what you make it. And again, I'm surrounded with great staff, but we also have a very progressive and supportive counsel at the same time. I mean, I was always of that mindset, too. Things can happen overnight, but it doesn't work that way.

You always have to be looking at planning and preparing for the future and making sure that the staff is trained, community is trained to not react to emergencies in the community. We had a home burned down over the weekend. And, I mean, it was something else. It was a family that has been severely impacted with the death over the last three months and now their home burnt down.

Super sad. What we've seen in that instance when the house lit up was that the family was safe, the fire department on site right away. But our health team fully engaged, put them up at a hotel, get them the clothing and the meds and a cell phone and all the things that they needed.

You know, right? It just happened immediately because we're prepared for those things because we have such a great team here at W. You know, my biggest stress is honestly are that we lose key staff. Biggest stress, the whole world, losing our stars. You know, we're a bit of an anomaly that way in my, because not only have we been able to recruit talented individuals

into this organization, to this government, but we've been able to retain them. You know, we're losing our CAO, one of our, like, superstars, a guy by the name of Aramonella. You know, he has turned a corner for us over the last three years that he's been here and, you know, made this unbelievably great impact on our community and really change the trajectory of our community for the good. And, you know, finding an individual to replace him super tough.

And I think we found somebody that is going to be able to fill those shoes. We have high hopes, that same raw talent, that same, you know, motivation, indigenous female, but then Courtney Cook, name dropper. But, I mean, that's the biggest thing in these communities is, you know, keeping the ship down that path and down that vision we have as a leadership group as chief and council. But just understanding again, and we talked about it already, is that these things don't happen overnight and look at the amount of progress that we've had, you know, while I was on council over those 10 years, and then now as the chief over the past five years, it's been unbelievable progress. It's been great. It's been fun and exciting and I'm honestly pumped to come to work every day. You know, I'm pumped to being through being able to participate in those ceremonies. And, you know, that's what you need to have on a day to day because here was rolling

to work every day. I don't know, how are you and be able to properly lead your people? You are a multi-talented individual, and I think that that also inspires other people. You're not just a great leader. You do other things. Can you talk about dip netting with dad and writing a book and sharing that? Because I think it just, it's really important that people have different skill sets and different interests so that when they're doing one thing, their mind can go to hockey or go to writing a book

or move around so you're not feeling stagnant. Can you talk about that book? Yeah, I have a couple books. I always said I'm going to write about what I know best and what I know best is dip net fishing. It's traditional port with fishing specific to British Columbia. where you have a 8 to 10 foot pole with a net on the end and you dip it into the river

and scoop fish out or bird I mean that's the way that we harvest they're hockey of course and big hockey guy so I mean that's what I wrote about in second hockey with dad and dip knitting and dad

both Canadian bestsellers one was an award winner I think award season is coming up for hockey but I'm not 100% and I wanted to be able to have a story that I could read to my kids specific to our region and our people at that be a little thin and it's quite blue i mean that's where the the vision came for those books i remember i was searching high and low everywhere

every bookstore and um i couldn't find like a fun indigenous children's book and there's a ton out there now which is awesome but uh i finally just like i remember i was having this discussion with my um my ex-wife and it was just like uh well why do you write one i said well well fine i will and i found a really super talented uh illustrator a good friend of vine and and that's what really started the process of hockey with dad and dip knitting with dad the best part of this entire you know journey as a indigenous author um in my opinion was a bookchewing part of it i mean there's really not a part of money in um children's books anyways i mean what are we at i think i mean we've sold over seven thousand

and copies of each book now which is which is unbelievable thank you very much for everyone that bought the book that's really cool uh but the but you know getting out in front of those schools and being able to share our story and how do we share stories historically um we shared them through oral oral storytelling or that's how we taught our lessons and in in in getting back to that with with books and then getting out in front of these students and and presenting to these entire gymnasiums of kids in different districts across the province gave us a good handle and a good perspective on

where the healing journey is at really in this country, in my opinion anyways. I mean, that first year we did 73 schools over eight weeks. It was so much fun. There's this really neat experience that we had on the island. they gave us the Vancouver Island first of all

unbelievably gorgeous gorgeous territory I mean you know you're from down in the lower mainland but for anybody listening you need to get a chance I mean the district

that we went to is Lower Cowichin they had a great handle on you know that revitalization and you know that indigenous non-indigenous partnership

and what reconciliation should look like before reconciliation became a topic of discussion really and i remember we went to this french immersion school you know the school district gave us this handler big indigenous man active drum on his chest big booming voice you know and uh he sang this welcoming song like every school that we went to it was super cool and we went to this french immersion school i can't even remember where it was now but um we're standing at the front like we usually do and we have this great presentation it's for an hour long

We talked about the importance of storytelling, the whole experience of catching fish and drawing them and the family experience that come with it and community experience and then Kev talks about how we illustrated the book and hurried became an illustrator. It's really good. It's really well done. And we were able to perfect it and work on our public speaking skills. But we're standing at the front of the school. And there's not a single indigenous kid in the whole school.

It's a French original school. in our handler I wish I remember his name but he starts doing the welcoming song entire school sings the welcoming song in that lower couch or that indigenous language I couldn't believe it

I remember looking over at the illustrator and I just get shivers to this day because of how powerful it was and even the impact that it had on the non-indigenous illustrator in that moment I mean that's the benchmark you know we sing our songs now here in community and i think about that all the time and you know we sing the same songs and we have been for years because we want people to learn them

and what we're seeing is not only you know more people from the community picking up drums and participating in those drumming circles we're starting to see the community sing those songs well i mean it is it is crazy and i just think of just that moment in in where we want to be that i think you know just that lesson alone and that experience alone makes those books worthwhile and we have a bunch more that we want to do just need to find the time that's fantastic and I think it goes to the benefits of sharing a culture that maybe people haven't had the opportunity to learn about previously and it does seem like people they just want something deeper it feels like some of maybe the most popular music doesn't have that much meaning

some of the most common TV shows don't have that much meaning. People seem to be really hungry for something that has a deeper meaning, that has a connection to something that's 10,000 years old is a good way to start to immerse yourself in what role do I play? Where am I from? What are

my traditions? What are my values? And that's been one of my favorite parts about conversations about reconciliation is that people are able to say, wow, you do that. Our culture, my culture does this and you're able to start to see that we're all a lot more similar than I think people realize.

We have overlaps. Christian belief systems. They have flood stories. Indigenous cultures have flood stories. Some of the underlying values that exist in these cultures are connected in a beautiful way that it doesn't take away to say one culture knows this and one culture knows that

and they're a little bit different. The beauty is that there's something underneath them that really means something to people. Oh, I agree with you 100%. I mean, it puts it into perspective. you know the history and legacy of indigenous peoples and how we're seeing this crazy revitalization everyone is starting to become you know a lot more prouder and show more pride and who they are and where they come from but you know in that in the education that's happened over the last

couple of decades is that we're also bringing along those non-indigenous in trying to have them stand beside us and hold us up and be a part of that journey because I mean we'll we all live in the same world nowadays, you know, in us getting educated on who we are and where we come from, what it means to be the indigenous person, what it means to be from Sequitamulu, for me, from Williams like First Nation, I mean, we need to make sure that they're educated on that too so they can be there because, again, we're not, We're moving the non-Indigenous people from our territories. We've got to live in harmony nowadays.

That's just the reality of the world we live in. I couldn't agree more. I think religion or religious beliefs, values, culture, they're not just good stories. They give us something when the storm comes, when the flood comes, when problems arise, when the unthinkable happens. They give you something to hold on to during those dark times. and your community has faced that more than, more than most in recent years. You had the St. Joseph's Mission Residential School recoveries. You've faced a variety of different atmospheric events that impacted you.

Can you talk about how your community is fared? How did you approach that as a leader? And those aren't easy discussions to have by any means. St. Joseph's mission operated I think till 82 or 83 so not that long ago it was located 6 kilometers from the community core of WLFN and I was not only

WLFN kids but kids from their neighboring sequitment communities the Chilkoden communities the Geft communities New Hall Statliam and what are we at I think we're at 48 indigenous communities that have been impacted that had kids that went to that school

here we are it's located in the hard in the stewardship barrier of WLFN so we've been tasked with taking the lead on the investigative works it really shows the you know the quality of the people that we have at WLFN and how we've been able to approach that investigation you know

make sure that we're holding all of the nations up best of our ability and leading with ceremony and providing a safe space for people to tell their story. We had the Prime Minister of Canada come to our community after we released

the findings on January 25th last year. And we got a lot of heat for it. You know, how could you be hosting that man and F. Trudeau and all of these, you know, anti-vaxxers? I mean, you look at situations like that And my rebuttal to all those, you know, comments and critiques is that the prime minister came to the res, you know.

There ain't no other prime minister ever come to our res. And it was through teachings and lessons from other leadership that, you know, we were able to embrace that happening. Where, you know, you talk to a very well-respected leader and Cadmist alarm from Callas's First Nation. He reached out right away when he heard the Prime Minister was coming and his words of advice right away or make sure that you show him in this country

how proud of the people you are, how strong and resilient but people you are, and make sure that you make that impact so that he remembers who the Williams Lake First Nation is when he continues on in his travels. The amount of healing that's happening in your community in this moment of time, the amount of healing that has happened in your community to this date,

even though you have the history and legacy of that school right in your backyard. And I always think about that as we move forward, you know, it's one thing to take a heavy-hand approach and say the things that make good news in the press. But I think in the broader discussion of reconciliation and the broader discussion of healing as a country, We need to always make sure that, you know, in times of need, in times of disaster, in times of traumatic events, that we want to determine that we are projecting this hope and this healing, and that has always been our approach. And I think the way that our team and our council has prepared me to take that role, it's been a very humbling experience, to say the least. It hasn't been easy, but the amount of support that we have, not only in our council and our staff,

but in our elders group and our cultural leaders and leadership from the region, always checking in and checking up. You know, I wouldn't be able to handle it online. And that's saying something because some heavy-duty stuff. But again, I mean, we always want to. turn these situations into something that people are going to remember and people are going to, you know, use as a beacon of hope in their communities. I look at, you know, our investigative works around St. Joseph's and the discussions that we

continue to have with the other lead communities, not only in BC, but across Western Canada. And it's that information sharing in the way that we've been able to do things that have helped those other communities along as well. And vice versa, you know, the interesting thing is all these investigations aren't the same. You know, with us, we're dealing with a bunch of property owners with Kamloops, Indian Band. The Kamloops, they have that residential school right on reserve, so it's a little bit different. And really, you know, as long as their information sharing, as long as we're talking about, you know, what's working and what's not working, it's only going to, I think, you know, a lot with. all to be a little bit stronger moving forward and then when announcements are made and we're

having ceremony here in our community and sending our prayers and our thoughts in in our strength of those other communities i mean that's what we want to see right across the board uh revitalization is key here it is also key i couldn't agree more i often give the analogy that the way a tree gets stronger is not by not facing strong winds and storms. It's actually the way that it gets stronger because the roots dig in deeper during those difficult periods and it can be heavy, the topics can be heavy,

but it's how communities strengthen that social fabric, understand each other better. When we're busy infighting over that person got a new house or that person's getting repairs before me, we start to infight. But when we're able to catalyze together and work together and support each other, It creates deeper bonds and it creates a stronger, more resilient community.

And I think you're just a testament to the ability to kind of lead those conversations in a more healthy way so that there's an example to look at on how to do this in a better way. I'd be remiss if I didn't ask. I mean, you've got so much going on in your community and your area. You've got the Kakuli Cafe. You've got some really cool entrepreneurship. You've also got the first BC first farm to get. gate cannabis operation.

Can you tell us about some of the great things that are going on in terms of growth for your community, in terms of diversifying that economy? Yeah, well, we don't have a Kukuli cafe yet. I mean, we would love, I mean, we've been in good, some great discussions with Elijah, the founder of that, or one of the franchise owner, one of the entrepreneur, one of the best entrepreneurs and indigenous entrepreneurs in the province. But we haven't been able to lock him down. We are building a restaurant, though, so maybe there's some synergies there still in those discussions.

Yeah, cannabis. We talk about this resource-based economy, Williams Lake. And we're always talking about how we diversify that economy. You know, cannabis was legalized in 2018, and we started discussions with the community around developing a cannabis law right away. You know, we're a land code community, so we're under the First Nations land management regime, which means we have the ability to create laws over a reserve. lands and uh the interesting part of that those those early stages of our cannabis discussions with community and those how those engagement meetings went full support i thought that was really

cool you know it was classified as a medicine uh in our community's house which you know i kind of took me aback because you know growing up around that you know having the stigma around cannabis around marijuana around weed uh it it was it was interesting and to see how the community was in full support of us moving forward and creating a lot. And getting into the industry. So our original vision was to get into retail with, you know, down the road getting into cultivation and we were able to negotiate the first government-to-government around cannabis retail in the country, which, you know, there has been a handful since, in British Columbia,

at least in every province is different because the provinces are handing the retail component of this legalization and right now we have a store in Williams Lake we have a store in Penticton we have a store in Lacklehash and we have a store in Merit all under the Unity brand I wish I would have wore my Unity shirt today Nacusum is how you say it in Sequent and we've seen a ton of success and there's been a ton of jobs so as as we've seen this build out of our, you know, our retail experience around cannabis, or, you know, working with the province of British Columbia and continuing to gripe on them about, you know, how much they take off the top in this legal world.

Super frustrating, but, you know, the industry is continuing to evolve. Eventually we're going to get there where I think there is going to be more benefits during indigenous communities being in the space to moving into this cultivation experience around Farm to Gate. So part of the gate seat to sale, we grow it in the back, we sell it up the front, getting her health Canada license and being certified and really owning every phase of, you know, legal cannabis distribution growing has been a journey on its own. It's where we've gotten a ton of profile.

I mean, we have a lot of jobs for the forum. I mean, what are we at now? I think we're over 40 jobs now, including our retail and our cultivation. and those are, you know, the majority of which are held by indigenous people from our community and from the communities that we're working in. I mean, that's pretty special in an industry that had this crazy stigma and still has a bit of stigma around, you know, how bad it is. You know, we're seeing the majority of the clientele that are coming into our stores,

you know, they utilize it actually as medicine, you know, for their ailments and there's an alternative to the over-the-counter drugs that they can get at the pharmacy. You know, and the success that we've seen has been great. It's been super exciting. It's an exciting industry to be in. But there's a ton of work to do

on the provincial, on the federal level, around, you know, giving indigenous communities a chance to succeed in the space. I mean, the amount of taxes that come off the top that go back to the government and how we're not seeing any breaks there is a big part of it. amount of competition that we see against the, I guess, non-regulated or sovereignty communities

or gray market communities that really impact us in areas like Pintin, for example, and then the competition around even the actual licensed facilities. A big part of why we moved into that legal space and didn't go down that gray market route was we wanted to make sure that we could open up a bank account. Big one. I remember talking to a guy who's living in that gray market world, and I'm like, what do you do with all the money? And he's like, honestly, I put it in boxes and I've run it out of places to hide it,

really. Because he can't legally open a bank account if you're not, you know, legally licensed to sell. Insurance, obviously, a big one. Making sure that, you know, we are covered if something were to happen. making sure that there's a health Canada certified product on the shelves and that people aren't getting sick, you know. I mean, those are massive ones. Keeping out organized crime, I mean, being able to actually pay our staff through our bank account

and provide, you know, a benefit opportunity for them if they want to buy into that too. I mean, these are all key things, but, you know, the debate on gray market sovereignty model in the legal space and indigenous communities is a big one. So what we continue to say, you know, out to the provincial and federal government is just, you know, you need to evolve quicker. The legislation is just so down slow around the evolution of cannabis and indigenous communities and making more benefits so that they do come over. That is a key part of that. But again, every community is different and you have to respect the decision on those communities and how they want to approach these things. And although our model, in our opinion, is the best model, it's a model that works for us. And that's what we continue to say as we speak at conferences or speak to leadership and educate them on how our journey has been.

but I've went from an individual who knew nothing about cannabis and in my opinion still doesn't know a ton to the general public we are experts we are experts in the cannabis seat it's been fun for a briban understatements and it's been extremely fun it really excites me because I think it's a statement to various levels of government There might be some hesitation over the years of like, we're trying to consult. Would you be open to this? Does it interest you? And then you kind of get like whispers or crickets and you don't get that same hunger.

But when you see some community like yourself taking the lead and really showing that you can sit at the table, that you can have better policy ideas, you can have the background of this is why this is going to work better, then they go, oh, wow, we need to get these thoughts more. And it excites and it creates that spark for people to go, no, we're not just doing it because we have to consult. We're going to consult because we want some good ideas and they may have knowledge that we're not privy to and they have strategies and understandings. Like, I think that that's really important. It changes the conversation, the dialogue that you're having

and that excites me a lot. Yeah. And I mean, it's been an interesting space around even, you know, educating ourselves and creating these really cool brands and strains or this really cool brand in unity and sugar king cannabis, but then also being able to grow these, like strains and have them out have like an indigenous feel to them like I just grab some stickers and you look it's like you know uh our grass dance brand yeah we have flour and pre rolls

and and just the indigenous feel to that and how we've been able to successfully brand it and see success and see that product and products like medicine man for example there you go in provincial stores that's awesome it's so crazy people in the north or in the south are able to buy our product and it's because of all the work

that we've been able to do and how we've been able to grow a strain that is of high THC content and that we've been able to build this relationship and see them purchase it and put it in the shelf space and the provincial store is crazy

that's so crazy can you tell Can you tell people how they can get your books? Can you say the names again so people know where to go looking for them? Yeah, you can get it on Amazon or in chapters or maybe they carry to the local bookstore, but you can order it at your local bookstore. It's hockey with dad and dib knitting with dad. In the years to come, I think our next two titles are going to be pow-a with dad and hunting with dad.

So, I mean, we kept it with the dad theme just for Bradford. purposes but you know of course like mom will take a bigger role in future books and grandma I mean it's all about that family center I've had another child since too so like I'm going to have to start introducing more family characters somehow some way you know to keep all the kids happy in my life sure we go it's an A&W run eh yeah yeah we'll have we'll have something for every every walk of life in that That's a cool thing, too. I mean, you look at, you know, how important hunting is in indigenous communities and indigenous culture.

Well, how do you portray, and this was always a debate that I had with my publisher, is how do you portray the killing of an animal, like a deer or most to an audience of three to seven? I'm pretty, pretty impossible, but I think pretty necessary. I always said when I was always lobbying for that hunting with that book, that, you know, any press is good press. Then I probably should probably disagree with that. But, you know, we've got a privilege to move forward with those ones through a lit agent. And, yeah, really looking forward to getting those on the shelves in the years to come. It's all about just the process of writing them and getting the illustrator on board to complete illustrations.

It's exciting times in Indian country, not just for local entrepreneurs like yourself. and like myself, but leadership and communities in the meta-uptake that we're seeing them in a support that we're seeing not only from the feds, from our premier, and from our local municipalities and CRDs and how they embrace the concept of reconciliation and include us in those discussions and all the things that they're doing as well. But we've never seen that. You know, I mean, I say it's exciting times like it should have happened years ago, but it didn't, but it's happening now in our era and young leaders like yourself and myself are getting those seats at the table and having those discussions and, you know, for the future of our communities and the health

and levels of our communities, you couldn't ask for a better opportunity or to be in these positions to actually be able to make that change. So, you know, excited to share our story, share my story and just be a part of it. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think Our generation is definitely putting the politics, putting the complaining and the frustration, and that came from a real place. Like, I'm not speaking ill of those individuals. They were banging on the door and not getting through. And now the door is open, and our feeling is just like, well, let's just go on in and let's

start to make some progress. And I love that energy. I'm so glad that people like yourself are producing these books because the question I get asked a lot is, like, how do I get involved in reconciliation? And my dream, my pie in the sky is that one day you won't have to ask because that book will be in the store when you're shopping, the food will be in your supermarket, there will be opportunities for you to connect with our culture in an easy,

accessible way that you don't have to go scouring the internet to try and find something. It will be right there, and you're an individual really contributing to that. I find you really inspirational because you're leaving all of that politics to the side and you just want to make things better. and that really excites me. It gets me very motivated. So I really appreciate you being willing to come on today. I think you have so much wisdom and experience and humility about the work you do. Putting it on your staff, I think that sets the example for people. We get lost in wanting to be successful or whatever that looks like for somebody. You're very much willing to put that back on the team and be proud of the work that everybody's doing together to make people's lives better. oh man i so thankful for you know people like you that help us share these stories because you know without these stories nobody would know and you know this is an education process for for for everyone again uh keep doing what you're doing man uh because it's looking

good and and everyone is right there with you well i wish you the best of luck tonight it sounds like it's going to be a beautiful ceremony. I hope the food is fantastic. I just really appreciate you being willing to take this time. I think there's a lot for people to get out of this. And huge thank you to Tim, if we can switch the camera to him. Thank you so much, Tim, for putting this together. How did we do? Everything looks and sounds great. Cool. I tried to continue to look at Aaron in the top square and not look anywhere else. helped you did a really good job excellent yeah you are very insightful sounded fantastic and super thrilled yeah looking forward to see in person one of these times i look forward to it if

i'm up there i'll definitely send you an email and if you're down here let me know okay sounds good Thank you.