Nuanced. - Inside FortisBC: How Energy Upgrades Save You Money

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

Carol Suhan, Manager of Conservation & Energy Management at FortisBC, joins host Aaron Pete to unpack energy efficiency upgrades, safety, dual-fuel heating, Indigenous partnerships, and home comfort solutions that save money and improve lives.FORTISBC:https://www.fortisbc.com/Send us a textThe "What's Going On?" PodcastThink casual, relatable discussions like you'd overhear in a barbershop....Listen on: Apple Podcasts   SpotifySupport the shownuancedmedia.ca

I have to say, very proud of working for Fortis and really delivering a vital service for everybody in the province. But could we start at the beginning? What is Fortis B.C? Energy efficiency not only will make your home more comfortable, reduce your utility bills, but potentially can even improve your health. And what does that look like in people's homes? When they're getting that Fortis bill, what does that really mean? You could have a new furnace and you can have solar and you can have air conditioning, but if that air is just leaking in and out of your house. Why is it so important that you have BC Hydro and Fortis BC? What was the logic behind making sure that you have different options?

Homes were saving on average. Minimum was like $200, $300 a year to $3,000, $4,000 a year. Having that heat, having that energy in people's homes, it's not even a matter of comfort. It's a matter of safety. Carol, thank you so much for being willing to join us today. Would you mind first briefly introducing yourself? I'm Carol Suhan.

I work for FortisBC in the Energy and Conservation Group. And over the last seven-ish years, I've been working almost exclusively with indigenous communities. Again, really trying to improve energy efficiency in homes and in community buildings. The idea, of course, is to make homes more comfortable, reduce utility costs, utility bills. And obviously, climate change is a part of that as well. Fantastic. I'm very excited to be doing this series and to get to know individuals like yourself

because I personally feel like Fortis serves so many homes and it's such an important piece of our day-to-day lives. somewhat we take that for granted and somewhat we need more education on understanding what Fortis is, how it serves communities, and how it plays a role in making sure that we're safe in the winter and that we have the heat and support we need throughout those seasons. But could we start at the beginning? What is Fortis B.C.? Well, Fortis B.C actually is two companies.

One is an electricity supply or distribution, and we actually produce our right. own electricity, so the Kootenies and the Okanagan. And then, of course, a natural gas distribution company that services probably 95% of the province of British Columbia, you know, from Fort Nelson right down to, you know, Vancouver and good parts of Vancouver Island as well. And what does that look like in people's homes? When they're getting that forest spill, what does that really mean? Well, it means that you're connected, you have gas heating in your home. And interestingly enough, a lot of folks don't realize that they actually do have gas heating in their home. They just have a furnace.

It works. But, yeah. So that's heating, which, by the way, does account for about 50 to 65%. of your energy bill is actually to heat your home. So it's a big, I think it's a really important part of, you know, how you make your home comfortable and safe. Yeah. So I'm just thinking you mentioned furnace.

I also think I just got an hot water on demand system as well that also uses gas. And I'm just interested in understanding that in comparison to hydro. Okay. And actually, you mentioned hot water, which is also really important. in terms of energy efficiency, because it, too, uses between, I don't know, 15 and 20% of all of the energy use in your home would be for hot water. So now you can sort of 50% to 80% for space and water heating. And in comparison with electricity, I mean, obviously hydro provides, it can provide space heating. It can provide hot water. Generally speaking, the natural gas system is more affordable. to operate, and I do for indigenous communities, particularly when you get into more remote areas, you don't, electricity can be outages, and there can be outages for days at a time.

You probably have experienced that. So, you know, here's a way of, you know, at least maintaining, you know, more comfort in your homes and having heat, or even though your furnace might not work, but you can have, you know, a gas fireplace backup, whatever. So I think it's a really good fit for indigenous communities, particularly who have extended outages in more remote, you know, rural areas. Can you walk us through that? Why is it so important that you have BC Hydro and Fortis B.C. What was the logic behind making sure that you have different options? This would be obviously developed over the last number of decades, but actually this is a misconception, I think. A lot of people don't realize how much energy that the gas system provides to the province, rather.

You know, we think about electricity, you know, we think about turning lights on or turning them off, or turning your computers off. But really, as I just mentioned before, you know, when you consider that 50 to 80 percent of a building's energy use is space and water heating, Yeah, space and water heating is a really important part. And so as the energy system was built out over the last 50, 60 years, gas was very much meant to be space and water heating. And particularly in the coldest days of the year, like Fortis BC will provide like more than two times energy than all the electricity systems combined. So, you know, Fortis B.C. Electric, B.C. Hydro. But, yeah, on those coldest days of the year, the gas system is imperative, I think, because I know the electrical system couldn't possibly keep all of our homes, at this point in time anyway, keep our homes comfortable. And I'm not even comfortable, safe. Yeah. What does that mean to you to be an employee that has the opportunity to make that impact? Again, I think most people just expect their homes. to be heated. But if you look back 200 years, you were completely reliant on a fireplace or some

sort of system like that. Now we somewhat take that for granted, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but there's so many people working behind the scenes to make sure you never even think about turning up your thermostat and heating up your home. And I think it's important that we understand the work that goes into that. I have to say I really, I guess I'm very proud of working for Fortis and really delivering a vital service for everybody in the province. And I also know that my colleagues take this, I mean, having resilient, making sure that the heating system or, again, if it's electricity, everything works and works safely and on time and all the time.

I mean, they take that work very, very seriously. I have been in the operations centers when I bring a heat wave, for example, and, like, you know, alarms are going off and people are scrambling to make sure that there's enough electricity, I think it happens to be electricity in this case, but that to meet the air conditioning needs. And, you know, so folks, this is, you talk about in the background, there's a ton of work that goes on in the background that, yeah, we never know about. It's just you flip on the switch, you turn up the, your heat, your heat, your heat. and it works. But, yeah, I think, gosh, we've just short of 3,000 employees across the province and, you know, whether we're working in communities, like, you know, for example, I was in Prince George just, you know, a short time ago and up in the north.

And, you know, there's folks working in those communities to make sure that the gas is working. Or, again, I talked about being in, you know, that electricity service territory, people working, making sure that we have enough electricity to meet that demand. and actually buying it on the market and doing it live and there's so much stuff like with on the background. I had the opportunity to tour, I believe it's called the Tilbury site. And one of the things that one of the tour guides had explained was, I forget what year it was, but it was during an incredible cold spell that we had where it was hitting

minus 30, minus 28 for a period of time, that that put incredible strain on the system because everybody had their heating cranked and the system had never kind of been prepared for such an event for such a long period of time. And again, when you don't know about those things, it's so humbling to realize the amount of work that goes on to try and prepare for those circumstances. And I know there's plans to begin to address that and make sure that we're in a better system the next time a cold spell comes. But just knowing that so many people are doing work and we don't get the opportunity to appreciate that. It just humbles me. Yeah, I think you're talking about January 2023. Yeah. So I know, you know, with minus 40 and minus 50 and, you know, parts of the country,

or province, rather, and it lasted for quite a long time. And yeah, both the electricity systems, more so, but the gas systems, again, we were sort of maxing out. And this had never been experienced before. And I don't know, I'm sure you heard about Alberta, that, you know, they were this close, their electricity system was this close to collapsing because it was so cold. And in that particular case, I think the gas system, they almost delivered nine times more energy. And again, well, you would know this. I mean, but when you're, it's minus 35, minus 40, really you only have four or five hours in your home before you start to freeze. So having, having, having, that heat, having that energy in people's homes is, it's not even a matter of comfort. It's a matter

of safety. I'm getting goosebumps just talking about that. Yeah, and that's exactly when I did that tour. I was like, I'd be very interested in having this conversation because it's something that had it happened, had it gone over that edge, we'd be a very humbled province or Alberta would be a very humbled province of the circumstances and people are very vulnerable, and there's statistics out there of that more people pass away due to the coldness than due to the heat. Yes. Not many folks know that.

And so it's an important piece that I don't know if we always appreciate, and then learning pieces, as we'll get into when we talk more about how we prepare for being energy educated and being informed on those pieces, that hot water on demand systems are better for the environment than having a hot water tank that's constantly heating when you're not home and when you're not using it, and that's a better step. Oh, boy. Well, I've worked for it in the energy conservation area, and of course, I think just, you know, conservation and efficiency is critical.

You know, if we're talking about climate change, but, you know, addressing and trying to decarbonize our energy system, but, you know, the probably, I mean, the most cost-effective and it just makes sense, like, on the global scale, but also on the individual scale, you know, it's making our buildings more energy efficient so that you use less energy, which means you, you know, emit less carbon. And whether, you know, whether that's more insulation in your home

or new windows and doors or a new heating system, or your new hot water tank, all of those things go together. And it can make significant, significant, decreases in consumption or energy consumption and emissions by just making our buildings much energy efficient. And I know we go historically, I think because energy was so inexpensive and it was so taken for granted that we didn't build buildings really well. And so now we're having to go back and do it afterwards, but can make a huge, huge difference.

The other piece I wanted to ask about, and it's just a reflection for myself in regards to the differences between BC hydro and Fortis and the type of energy that's produced. I had a heating and a heating expert come in and we were working on the hot water tank. And one piece that I found so interesting because we installed a washer dryer for my mom. And they came in and they were like, it probably makes sense to do a gas dryer because you're using a lot of electricity right now. So this will kind of balance it out. You're not using that much gas. And he was like one of the benefits of that, is that you get a clean dry, that you don't get the static electricity. And I just, I found that really interesting to learn about some of the differences between

electric heat and gas heat because you don't produce that. And then when you're heating your home, you'll feel that he described it as a warm hug when you have your gas on versus like BC Hydros heat, which doesn't give off that same surrounding warmth. Oh, yeah, yeah. That is, yeah, I think there's some real advantages to both, like, to gas heat or, again, that said, I think, you know, this is happening across the province, and I don't know, maybe I'm going a little bit sideways here, but in some ways, I think the perfect combination is sort of a dual fuel heating system,

And they've been around now for, well, they've been around for probably more than a decade, but only a couple of years in British Columbia. But it's a combined, connected, you know, heat pump, which is electricity, which would provide heat in the sort of shoulder seasons and cooling in the summer, which is becoming more and more important. But then when we're, you know, talking about these colder days of the year, and you have, the system automatically goes back into gas. So it keeps your bills affordable.

and you do get the warm hug because a gas can provide that instant kind of heat very quickly versus taking a longer time. And I think, well, I'll just mention this, but this is, I give them kudos because I just think they've been doing fantastic work, but Adams Lake First Nation in the Shuswap. I think it was in 2019, six years ago. I think they were one of the very first communities, if not even, you know, organized larger, you know, community areas, they installed five dual-fuel heating systems. And they love them so much that they've now got this, you know, informal policy that all of

their renovations and all their new construction all have dual-fuel heating systems. And anyway, so in some ways, I think that's kind of a kind of the optimal approach. You know, the heat pump is really efficient for cooling and working in the, when it's not too cold. And then when it gets cold, you have, you know, that gas, that gas heat, which in your own personal home, again, makes you more comfortable. It keeps your bills more affordable. But again, if we look at the more global provincial scale, you know, we're reducing emissions for a good chunk of the year.

When we think of BC Hydro, it's so easy to think of a hydroelectric dam. Like, it's easy to symbolically understand what hydro does. It's harder for gas. Would you mind explaining to us? What the gas is, just some of those processes, what is actually heating the home? How does that process work? Well, it is, you know, a gas that, of course, is extracted. And just by what knows, this is not my field of expertise, so I'll try and give it my best here.

But, of course, the gas is extracted, almost all of it from northern BC or Alberta. For the southern part of the British Columbia, we do get most of our gas from Alberta. Saskatch went through the southern crossing, but more central British Columbia comes from the north. It is, you know, cleaned and then piped up. It brings into our home. It is a, our furnaces, our water heaters, the dryer you mentioned before. They do have combustion equipment in your home that, of course, uses that gas to create heat. And that is then pumped through your home. It is, you know, I think it's a very kind of elemental kind of heating system, but of course, now the heating systems now are so much more efficient that, you know, we actually, before they used to be like in the 50, 60 percent efficient range. And like now we're all looking at 97 percent plus.

And then if you have the dual fuel system, like a couple hundred percent. But either way, I'm getting into detail here. What does that mean, though? What does it mean to be energy efficient in percentage? Okay. Well, all of the energy that is consumed becomes heat. Okay. And actually, if you go to a heat pump, it can be two to three hundred percent efficient because if you're using a chemical, it's like a refrigerator. You know, it's in your home, but it uses a chemical that circulates and it can turn cool air or to take air out of your home and make it cold and, you know,

use, that's how your refrigerator works. A heat pump kind of works the opposite way. It takes a heat out of the air, even when it's quite cool. Right. And heats your home. Again, using that chemical process, you know, and it's all closed tube. So, um, so it gets again, this combination system of, of using heat pumps and, you know, gas heating, um, I think just, it just makes really good sense. I'm interested to understand how you work with BC Hydro. Is there a strong relationship there? What is that process look like?

Are you two giant competitors against each other? Not at all, yeah. Especially working with indigenous communities, we work really closely with BC Hydro. And as a matter of fact, just recently we launched a program called the Partners in Indigenous Energy Efficiency and Resilience. and it's taken us over the last 18 months, but we now have a joint program essentially to provide funding support for indigenous communities

to improve housing and their buildings in terms of energy efficiency. So I think we work really closely, and again, I think that speaks to, again, how the systems work together. And, you know, because we need both electricity, but again, that gas makes such a, You know, a contribution in making, making sure that, you know, heating your home is,

continues to be safe, affordable, and more comfortable. So there's also a goal to reach 15% renewable gas in the system by 2030. Do you know what that means? I talked a lot about efficiency and how really we want to make people's homes and community buildings way more energy efficient, so you use less gas. means there's less carbon emissions, but at the same time, we want to just be decarbonizing the gas that we do use to heat homes. So it's a combination of renewable natural gas, which is kind of a very cool product,

because we actually harvest the methane that's off from landfills and sewage treatment plants and, you know, agricultural, like, cows manure. You know, so we harvest that methane and put it into our gas system. And, of course, it's burned in people's homes. We also are working on how hydrogen can be injected into our system. Again, you know, a low-carbon fuel that reduces the carbon of the, of all the gas that's going into everyone's homes. So that's where that kind of, that 15% comes.

We plan to have 15% less carbon in our delivery system. So people automatically, whether they know it or not, actually, are emitting lower greenhouse gas emissions. And that's probably one of the coolest things to learn, is that over time, we've become more and more energy efficient without knowing it, that, like, from my understanding, one of the biggest global challenges is people burning garbage, is people still using lumber and timber to try and heat their homes or heat around the world, heat their homes, and that we've managed to move in the right direction

over a very long period of time. So our impact has continued to reduce on the environment and on ecosystems than where we would have been if we were all using, like, firewall. it's still today? Yeah. So not only from an energy consumption perspective, but also, but just air quality and, you know, yeah, yeah. Can you tell me what does energy literacy mean?

Well, energy literacy, I think, is really important because we really, again, if we're talking about climate change, and how do we make improvements that we don't understand how we use energy? like and that's you know both on a provincial federal global scale or in our homes you know and I have been talking about efficiency and um but again if you want to make improvements and um just I'm studying first of all you know how is your home heated and I and I come across lots of folks who don't know I have a furnace I don't know but just you know so understanding that and then also understanding how much energy is you use to heat your home or to heat your water? And then wait a second, you go, okay, I'm really good about turning the computer off and I'm not using it, but I don't, I'm not really good about turning the thermostat down when I leave or overnight. But now I just realize, wow, three quarters of all the energy I use in my home is to heat my home and water. Okay, when I'm not home, I'm turning the thermostat down. So that's a, you know, that's a real basic place to start. And, and then, of course,

once you know that, you can start building, you know, incrementally, you know, either on making your home more energy efficient or, I guess that's kind of better, or even some behavior things that you can do to, again, use, you know, less energy. What are some energy myths or some common myths that you hear about? The two that just come to my mind is, one, solar panels when they had first come out, We're very maybe not in the place they needed to be. So some of our community members, as we've started to bring in solar panels, have been like, I hear they don't really work that well.

And then we're like, actually, the technology's improved quite a bit. And so we're in a different place with solar panels. And then the other one is heat pumps. Heat pumps when they started weren't that popular. And we have some people in our community who have early heat pumps, and they're like, oh, they don't work that well. And they've come so far. So what are some other myths that you've heard?

Well, I think there are a lot of myths about solar, but actually, I'll just tell you a little story. I was in Seattle, and it was the energy manager in the city of Seattle. He said, when I retire, I'm going to go into the fake solar panel business. Go, what are you talking about? Anyway, he was saying, like, every time someone makes an energy efficiency improvement in their house, so they put in more insulation, or they put in better windows and doors, they automatically get two solar panels so they can put on the roof and show the world, but a good job that they're doing.

Anyway, I just think it's really, because I think so many people think, oh, solar is energy efficiency. It's not. It's adding more energy, but it's not energy efficiency. It's not, you know, we can change out the heating system. We can add solar, but of our homes, they're still leaky. You know, you still have cold air, you know, leaking in into your house in the wintertime or your heat or even summertime when it's really hot and you can't, you don't even want to stand by your windows because it's so hot. Like, you can have a new furnace and you can have solar and you can have air conditioning, but if it's, that air is just leaking in and out of your house, you're at, you, that is, has much less of an influence and if you had just made your home.

more energy efficient, more airtight in the first place. So, yeah. I'm curious because my understanding is that also radon is a concern to so many. And so, like, it seems like there's this dichotomy between sealing your home. And then I've heard about radon, which is, like, you don't want to seal it too much, or you could end up having high amounts of radon. So is that something you've thought about at all? Yeah, it is, for sure.

we really do want people's homes to be as airtight as possible and like literally only have like one and a half air changes per hour because like my home anyway like seven to eight hour air changes per hour like you're heating the outside but to your point about radon if you're living in an area with high radon I mean first of all you can test your home to see how much radon that actually is being emitted into the atmosphere in your home and if it's quite high and you want to make energy efficiency improvements, please do that. But there are radon mitigation efforts, which you actually get, again, I'm not the technical person, but they actually put a pipe through your crawl space or your basement, and then

pull it up into the environment, so it never gets into your home at all. And so that's certainly all of the new construction where you need, where we, very airtight homes that are very energy efficient and very inexpensive to operate. they all have, well, at least in areas that have radon, they all are required to have radon mitigation systems installed. Can you say that again, one and a half air changes per hour? Yeah. What does that mean?

Okay. If the, sorry, that is a technical measurement that we use, but is to find out how energy efficient your home is. So energy evaluators will do blower door tests, and they literally, put on a big fan on your front door, and they create enough pressure, reverse pressure, that would be the equivalent of 100-kilometer winds at three sides of your house to see how windy your house is, or how, and the most efficient homes now are, you know, in that less than one or one-and-a-half air changes per hour. And homes like my home that was built in the early

1990s, well, we have made a lot of improvements in our home, but if they hadn't, we'd probably probably have nine, 10 air changes per hour. Like, yeah. So if you think about that, you're heating your home with expensive energy. And you're losing all of that heat in your house 10 times in one hour. And so is that the impetus to help people start to take some of these steps? Because not only is it good for their wallet, for their expenses, but it's also reducing the pressure on these systems.

It sounds like it's reducing the amount of energy we need. to pull from the earth. And so is that some of the logic behind trying to become more energy efficient? Yes. So, I mean, you can talk about the global scale, about, you know, climate change and carbon emission reductions. But we also talk about this personal, in our own homes, that, you know, if we can make our homes more airtight, add more insulation, maybe change out the heating system, maybe not.

But I'll just, okay, my own home, this would be physical. 15-ish years ago, 14 years ago, because my home was built in the 1990s. We were not required to put any insulation in the crawl space. Didn't need to. It wasn't part of the building code. Well, but yet, you lose almost half of your energy from your crawl space or your basement and your attic. So if they aren't insulated well, like you're just, you know, your warm air is just seeping out of your house. So in our own case, we insulated the crawl space and we changed out. our furnace, because, again, in 1990-ish or whatever, the furnace was probably 50% efficient.

I think the energy evaluator said it was kind of like taking a Hummer, this great big, hulking furnace in the corner of our house, but taking a Hummer and driving to the corner store. Like, you're going to use a lot of fuel. Anyway, we changed out to an energy-efficient furnace. We insulated the crawl space. And together, that was, you know, I mean, there were rebates as well. Like, it was, I don't know, $5,000, $6,000. our gas bill dropped by half.

And I know, it's extraordinary. It was extraordinary. And, you know, since that time, we've done other energy efficiency improvements. We've added more, you know, insulation in our attic. We got a new hot water tank that's, you know, on demand. And, oh, new windows and doors. And again, I think we've dropped our consumption again by another, you know, half or quarters. It's like, so even though the costs of energy have increased a lot over the last 15 years

and probably still will in the future, our energy bills are less than they were, you know, in 2000. So anyway, I just tell that story. That's my own personal story, but I got to feel it, experience it not only in how much our utility bills dropped, but also the comfort of the house. Right. Like, I'm comfortable wearing socks in the wintertime. and I don't have cold air blowing in my face when I lay in bed, which was the case before we changed out the windows

because on our bedroom faces the northeast and you get the wind from the north. Anyway, I'm sorry, that's my own personal story. But I guess it's an example, though, how it can make huge differences. I'll use this way as Indian band as an example. And I just, this community, they've done some wonderful things.

But in 2018, 2017, you know, they just, again, folks were just complaining about their high, high utility bills. And they often did have really high utility bills. And so what can we do? And then we had talked a little bit about behavior. But again, if your house is really leaky, if you've got 10 air changes per hour, it's just going to be, it's going to always going to, even if you change, out your heating system to a more efficient system, it's still going to be really expensive. So the community decided, we met and we chatted about this a number of times, but we, and then Fortis, BC, helped support this, but they got energy evaluations done for all the

homes that were built before 2010. And they, and then they made a list of, you know, so this home was in pretty good shape. Oh, gee, maybe we can put some more insulation in the attic. Oh, my gosh, this home needs everything. They need new windows and doors. It needs more insulation. And then, of course, I created a, you know, a priority list of what needed to be done. They applied for funding from Indigenous Services Canada.

And, of course, Fortis had rebates and other funding support. They renovated over the next two years and a half during COVID, but they did this. For a hundred and, I think the 162 homes. I think it's originally the 149, but they actually had. a little bit of budget left over, they could do more homes. And it cost, other than for themselves, to really organize themselves and, you know, you know, and yes, they had to get all the contractors to do more insulation and the windows, etc.

But, you know, they got all the funding from the combination between ISC and FortisBC to do that. And I know the project manager working on that said, you know, homes were a saving on average. minimum was like $200, $300 a year to $3,000 a year. So, yeah, I think it's one of my favorite projects to talk about. Can we briefly go through? I know we've mentioned quite a few of them, but what does energy efficiency upgrades look like if somebody's hearing this and they're like, I want to take action, I want to start to experience some of these savings?

What are those things? I mean, you can kind of just say, well, gee, downstairs, there's no insulation. I think we need to get insulation down there. But I really do recommend if you can get an energy evaluation. Because these are the energy evaluators that do the blower door tests where they create the 100-kilometer-hour winds in your house or the outside of your house. And they can really determine, tell you really quick. quickly and easily, oh my gosh, you have no insulation in this wall at all. Or there's, you know,

a big gaping around that fireplace or those windows, there's big gaping holes and the cold air is just coming in. And they'll take pictures, you know, with the infrared camera so you can see where the cold air is coming in. So anyway, and then they give you a map or a plan of what you might want to do, and usually the most, if cost, the lowest cost first. And then going to the, you know, to make your home gradually over time, because you might want to do it all at one time, but you may, in my own case, we've done it over the last 15 years, you know, one at a time. But almost always, it's air sealing first. So if you've got, you know, drafts around your windows or doors, you know, get your cocking gun out that costs you 15 bucks.

That can make a big difference. And then it's insulation. And that might cost you maybe a thousand-ish dollars, but make a huge difference. But by, okay, now I'm going to go, I'm going to go into, you know, Fortis and BC Hydro, depending on your heating source, or if you have wood or propane, because a lot of indigenous communities do have wooden propane heat. The province is a clean BC program. We all provide funding support that will probably pay for very close to 100% of insulation investment. And similarly, anywhere from, oh, and we'll pay for close to 100%, depending on where you are, but for the energy evaluation. So that energy evaluation is almost, there will be a small investment, I think.

They'll make the recommendations of what you should be doing. And then you can do it over time. And again, again, the utilities, CleanBC, we provide funding support for all that work along. along the way, whether it is, like, like, insulation, which I say is about, we cover about 90% of the cost to heating systems, again, around 80%, 80%, like, you know, dual-fuel heating system, for example, with $15,000 rebate. And so, anyway, that's a, and as it, you can do that as an individual, and now, of course, I've just talked about these rebates for indigenous communities specifically, which means

you would have to work with your housing department because they would help support you through that process, whether it's you as an individual, you know, if you are a CP like a homeowner or if you're a renter. But, you know, I think, you know, the housing teams, you know, in communities across BC are really recognizing how important this is and really want to help the community members access and makes their homes more comfortable, reduce their utility bills, because if you know, that can be a really high cost for some folks, and affordability is so important. That's what we've noticed. We've brought on heat pumps into our community, Chihuahua First Nation.

And the biggest thing that we've gotten so much feedback on is now I have a heat bill that went from $300 a month to $75 a month. Now I have that money that can go towards putting my kids in sports. They can go towards me taking online classes that can go towards putting more food in the home and taking other steps in your life. And for people who on many reserves are relying on social assistance, that $200 a month can be a huge difference to somebody being able to start to take steps in their life. And that's been the humbling experience being on council, seeing there's these little blocks and they all build towards somebody being able to be self-sufficient and be comfortable. And the challenge on reserve is often that it's not like the homeowner when I want a home that's not energy efficient, that isn't designed properly, that has bad windows, it's that organizations like Indigenous Services Canada gave an exact amount of money and they needed to build a house with that amount of money. And so they had to make cuts and do things in a more cost-effective way that resulted in the home not being energy efficient.

And so when programs like this come about, there's a lot of opportunity to address. these issues, help the homeowner. But, I mean, the second biggest response we've gotten is air conditioning on reserve, because that's so unusual. It's such a cost on the individual to buy their own air conditioning system. Then it's in one room, so it's not that efficient to get to the whole house. And so that room is cool, but the whole house is boiling. That's heating up that room. And now we have these systems that are going along the side of the furnace system to cool the whole house. And I sincerely think that that's an under-recognized piece of people flourishing within their homes is when it's hot, it's very hard to do anything. It's very

hard to use your brain. It's very hard to want to get motivated to do anything. And so you have these communities. Everybody's got boiling hot homes. And when it's smoky, you've got homes that are filled with smoke as well. And those pieces are starting to allow people to really perform, whether they're in school or whether or not they just went for a long run. And now they want to to go inside and cool off, you're really letting people kind of perform at their best. Yeah. Well, this is where, again, I'm going to go back to that dual fuel heating system because I think it's kind of this perfect combination because you will get the heating, sorry, the cooling in summer, which, of course, summer is, we are getting more drastic weather.

And again, it is through the whole home. It's more comfortable. It also have good air circulation and filtration, although people must make sure that they change their filters out regularly, of us you lose your efficiency. But then, of course, when on those coldest days, or even if it's just when it's colder, period, you know, going into the gas furnace, can you get that really, you know, comfortable heat, and it's more affordable. Like, it's less expensive than if you were to try and heat your home with electricity all winter long. And I know in this part of this part of the world, it's not too, too bad, but certainly if you get a little bit further north, Gas is much more affordable. What are some of the energy efficiency programs Fortis is running?

Can you walk us through some of the work you're doing? Well, we've got a, boy, we provide funding support for energy efficiency improvements from everything from community buildings, so health centers, you know, schools, etc. To individual homes. And then we have three main areas. So one individual homes. And again, this program was just launched. And I've talked before about how we're working collaboratively with BC Hydro and Clean BC, the Ministry of Energy.

And we have integrated all of our programs together to have one access point and have exactly the same funding support for whatever initiative it's what community wants to do. Because we know, and I'm sure you've had this experience, housing teams are often overwhelmed. overwhelmed, and I can't believe the breadth of work that they must do. But, you know, before, you know, you'd have to, if you had an electrically heated home, you'd have to apply to BC Hydro for funding support. If you had a gas heated home, you'd apply to Fordus BC. We're just, you know, it's just complicated. Now, we have one access point, and everything is, like all the eligibility requirements,

everything are combined. We also have coaches because we also know that, again, as a housing manager, how do you know all of this stuff? How do you, like, what the amount of work that they have to do is crazy. So we're trying to help them along the way and answer questions and, you know, connect them with contractors if need be, et cetera. And then, of course, you apply for the rebate or the funding support and it comes to you. and, you know, the two utilities and the province figured out, you know, who pays in the background. So the customer will never know. And that's what I was saying before, like, we're paying in sort of the 80% of, on average, of different elements,

whether it's at insulation or the windows and doors or the heating systems. I'm very glad to hear that. Yeah, yeah, I think, and we also now will pay for products. management, because we know it takes someone's time and effort to, you know, pull it all together. And if it need be, we also will pay 50% up front because not all communities require that, but some do, you know, they just don't have the cash flow or the capital to actually start this work. So with a good plan, we will provide the funding up front.

And as we move through, of course, you know, now you've finished working on these three homes or four homes or 10 homes, whatever it might be, you get the rebate, and then you can use that rebate to work on the next five homes or so on. So, I don't know, we think it's going to be, I think, I won't say game changer, but we've worked really closely with, we have the Indigenous Program Advisory Council, and they have been remarkable, they just provided us some really good advice and information for us to help to build this program and make it work as well as possible. We still have to meet our kind of regulatory requirements,

but again, make it work for indigenous communities. And, you know, again, someone can, you know, apply to do one home at a time or only one, just insulation on that one home, or you can do, you know, we now have communities that are planning to do all their homes. Again, we're built prior to 2010 or whatever, just like I mentioned of Soyuz, So we've got other communities planning to do that over the next several years.

And I don't know, I find that incredibly, you know, rewarding that we can help make this happen. Yeah. And then the last program, which I'm also really proud of it, you know, my proud of everything. No. But we, again, building new homes. You know, you're saying before often, you know, really tight budgets and how do you get all of this. We are providing up to, well, I guess sort of 30. $2,000 per home to help make those new homes as energy efficient as possible.

So that helps, you know, hire to work with an energy evaluator. They can work with you and help identify what you need to do for your builder or your designer, what needs to be done to make this home really energy efficient. And then, of course, if you do have to put in, you know, more robust windows and doors or more insulation, that extra $20,000 or $15,000 can help pay for that. So, okay, and I'll just give one little plug here now. But Yakunuki, First Nation in Creston, Lower Kooten, Indian Band. This would be again in 2020, 2019.

See, all the things started pre-COVID and that, no. But we convinced them because they were going to, they were building Section 95 homes. low-income household did, you know, budget for four homes and kind of convinced them to really build to the highest efficiency as possible, because they hadn't planned on it, but we helped pay for the consultants to work with them to build that standard home into a really efficient home. Well, they built to step code five, and then step code is like five. It's like the most of, you know, it's incredibly, you could almost heat that home with a hair dryer. I'm exaggerating. but it's really airtight, you know, like one and a half air changes per hour, really comfortable.

So they built four homes and between 20, again, because of COVID things, but between 2020 and 22, they're so thrilled with those homes. They just built last year, they built four more. Again, Section 95, so they're under a really tight budget constraints, and they're still building these really efficient homes. by careful planning and thought, you know, thinking about this very thoughtfully before they start building. And so, because it costs a lot more to do the renovation afterwards. But if you can actually build it in from the beginning, it doesn't cost that much more. And certainly Yacanuki said our rebates help pay for any additional costs that came to build that home from a standard building code to a step code five.

That's fantastic. Yeah, I know. Yeah, and they're beautiful homes, by the way. Like, they're just, like, they're not huge homes. If I had my camera, I could show you photos, but they're beautiful homes. And they now have eight families living in these homes or some singles. And everyone is just sort of thrilled with how the homes are operating and their utility bills are like a fraction of other nearby homes.

Which is really important because I don't know if many people understand that so many First Nations homes were never built to any, because they don't have to follow the BC building code. because they're on reserves, so they're on federal lands, so they don't have to follow that code. So often these homes contractors would come in, build to a subpar standard, save some money, and then move on. And so this is kind of the first time for so many that the homes that are being built on reserve are being built not only to code, but in some cases actually better than the standard code, which is exciting. And when we talk about reconciliation, these are the types of pieces that really stand out to me that we are moving in the right direction. I had the opportunity to interview David Suzuki, and he had, I would say, just a very grim perspective on where we are and where we're going.

But then I look at what Fortis is doing and what BC Hydro is doing and what the goals are and what the stated goals are and how they're following through on them. And it just gives me much more hope because there's a personal reason for a person to want to do this. So you wake up and you go, why would I want to be energy efficient? And it's because I will save money. I can put that money towards my family. I can put that money towards improving my own life. But then not only am I doing that, then it's actually going to reduce the amount of energy we're pulling from the earth or the amount of impact we're having on rivers and waterways

because the way BC Hydro has to work, those things are impacted. So we're going to do that in a better way. And then we're creating a cleaner planet. And we're also making sure vulnerable populations are also having higher quality life. And when I started this, one of my favorite quotes was like, try and live your life in a way it's good for you, good for your family, good for your community, and then try and do that in a way that's not good for you just today, but for a year, and for 10 years, and for seven generations. And when you try and live your life based on that, it really narrows the direction you're going to

move in, because if you're going to do all of those things, it's actually much more challenging than I think people realize. And the work that you're doing and that Fortis is doing in other organizations to bring down those energy efficiency costs is a statement on the trajectory. I feel like we're going, and I think that's a positive direction. Yeah, I like to think so as well. And because, I mean, again, I have mentioned a couple of times making her home more comfortable, but that is, even though we're kind of working on it from that global kind of perspective, ultimately at the end of the day, for those families, it is making their home more comfortable

and healthier. I know you mentioned before, I mean, again, there's all kinds of research that shows that a cold, damp house, not only does it really uncomfortable, the respiratory issues and health issues. So, again, energy efficiency not only will make your home more comfortable, reduce your utility bills, but potentially it could even improve your health because you'll have a healthier air. You won't have the mold issues, you know, et cetera. It's an excellent point because when I started on council in 2022, we went into one person's home and they were like, my child has a severe asthma, is having a lot of health issues. I don't want to get it wrong, but it was something like had to have their liver checked out and was having, because there was so much mold and mildew in the roof because that roof was never built properly and it was 40 years old. And so he was like, are you guys going to fix this? you're the third person in 20 years to come in and say you're going to fix my home,

are you actually going to fix it? And it's rewarding to have that come to a close. But to your point, like, you'll have health issues and not even realize the connection between your home and how you're sleeping and the room you're in. And energy. Yeah. And how energy is used in your home. Yeah.

So I'll do one little extra plug. And again, this is the peer, the partners and indigenous energy efficiency and resilience, peer. And just so you know, our advisory committee really, they chose that name and they absolutely wanted to have the resilience at the end because it's not only about energy efficiency, it's about having resilient homes. But I'm sorry, I digress, but PIR, that program also will provide funding support for health and safety improvements as well, and whatever it's related to energy efficiency improvements. So whether it's building envelope, you know, if you're having to, you know, the home that you just spoke about, you know, all of that old insulation would have to be pulled out, the home would have to be cleaned, et cetera. And then so we provide funding to do that, and then, of course, provide the funding to have

that home re-insulated properly. Right. The last question that I have for you is what inspired you to take on this work? Boy, kind of by accident, so I'm not sure if I was so inspired. But I grew up in the north. I live right next near the beaver, I'm not even sure, beaver Indian Band Reserve. We did not have electricity. We did not have running water.

It's really cold. And so I think I know, even though I've lived a very privileged life, I do know what it's like to live in really substandard housing and really cold climates. to actually see that difference, feel the difference and make the difference in people's lives. I don't know. I can't imagine how fortunate I have been to come into a role that allows me to try and help make some of these problems better. You know, yeah, I just feel so honored. I really love that.

How can people learn more and start to take some action? Where would they go? You know, obviously, I mean, from an indigenous community perspective, I would talk to your housing team, talk to your housing manager. I know they may hate me for saying that because it puts more work on their plate. I think most folks, though, now, I mean, like I say, you know, I think every housing manager across British Columbia is so dedicated and passionate that, and I think most of them properly. already know about the funding support and the things that need to be done. But again, if they haven't had the capacity to do that, you know, anyone listening to this program can say, well, there's a new program, and it does help with capacity funding as well.

So, you know, start talking to your housing manager, and hopefully through them, you know, we can help support them and, you know, build, you know, a plan, whether it's just for one home at a time. Like, I can just mention some communities here in the Fraser Valley that, can I mention a name? I mean, Nancy Murphy from Swally Nation. Like, she's brilliant, but she's literally been doing like two homes at a time for the last five years. And like literally, so she keeps it very manageable, but she says, you know, and when I get the rebates from the utilities, I use that money to go and work on the next house. And so whether it's a small project, like that and you just chip at it, one home at a time, or, you know, like the community-wide

project, like I talked about it, so I use. And for everyday British Columbians, where would they go? I would say I would recommend, well, gosh, you can do anything, but, you know, go to the website. You know, go to FortisBC.com, you know, go under rebates and you can see, you know, kind of a pathway, and maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, that's very specifically if you're wanting to make efficiency improvements to your home, but you can help, but you'll see that there's rebates available there again for, you know, any kind of improvements that you're making on your home. You can also go online to my account, and they give it some kind of tips and

ideas of how to get started, or even if you don't have the budget to work on it, but at least even the things that you can do in your home, like, I didn't know this, but if you have baseboard heating or if you have vents on against a wall, don't put your sofa over those vents or in front of that baseboard heating because it's meant to be open to actually create circulation in your home. And if you don't, and I can use my own example in a previous home, you can have frost on the wall behind the sofa because you don't have the problem. proper heat circulating in your house.

So, anyway, if you go to the FortisBC website, you'll get all kinds of information like that. We can be just like no cost and make a difference in comfort and your utility bills. Amazing. Carol, thank you so much for being willing to join us today. It's been an absolute privilege to learn so much more from you. Oh, well, thank you for the opportunity. And I hope, well, I hope we have lots of folks listening and they can take advantage of the programs. and again, make homes better.

Beautiful. I am sure they will. Thank you.